Well, let's get you back to reality, here, Joel. The politicians reinstated the Bridge to Nowhere while no one was looking. I wonder what NPR in Alaska sounds like...

This is a powerful radio series. I heard the March 6 broadcast with Cecile Gilmer's story (excerpted below): The people Who Love You When No One Else Will. Sorry that I missed Mark Shields' presentation, but you can always link to it via the Internet.

The Beaches knew all about me when they took me in. When I was seven, my mother died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound and from then on my father relied on other people to raise his kids. By the time I went to live with the Beaches, I believed that life was entirely unfair and that love was tenuous and untrustworthy. I believed that the only person who would take care of me was me.

Without the Beaches, I would have become a bitter, cynical woman. They gave me a home that allowed me to grow and change. They kept me from being paralyzed by my past, and gave me the confidence to open my heart.

I believe in family. For me, it wasn't the family that was there on the day I was born, but the one that was there for me when I was living in a Howard Johnson's on Interstate 10.

I am reminded by the comment "Friends are the family you pick, not the family you're stuck with." I suspect that politicians can be viewed in the same way.

I've always liked Mark Shields. And he's right. If it weren't for those who marked, forged and paved the paths before us, we'd still be living in caves, and acting like it. Oh, but wait. . .

But too bad Shields doesn't mention one woman politician and her contribution to the nation...(having just read his piece)...and Reagan helped fight discrimination against homosexuals but did so little to even acknowledge HIV-AIDS...

Russ asked, "I wonder what NPR in Alaska sounds like..."

Tom Bodett?

http://www.bodett.com/

My FM antenna has been out of commision for a few weeks now and I have been suffering from NPR withdrawal. I have learned how to download podcasts to my cell/phone PDA and play them through my car stereo, but it's a lot of work. I will have to add the "I believe" stories to my feed.

I also believe in politics, when it involves open dialogue and compromise, and when issues being debated amount to more than the exhange of soundbites. But, all too often, what passes for politics anymore, on both sides of the aisle, involves little of that.

Here the words "I believe" always makes me think of this Steve Martin bit:

You probably heard I was into the comedy thing. Kind of getting out of that now.. into a little more serious deal. And so that's why right now I'd like to talk about "What.. I.. Believe.."

[ heavy music starts to play ]

"What I Believe."

I believe in rainbows and puppy dogs and fairy tales.

And I believe in the family - Mom and Dad and Grandma.. and Uncle Tom, who waves his penis.

And I believe 8 of the 10 Commandments.

And I believe in going to church every Sunday, unless there's a game on.

And I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, wholesome and natural things.. that money can buy.

And I believe it's derogatory to refer to a woman's breasts as "boobs", "jugs", "winnebagos" or "golden bozos".. and that you should only refer to them as "hooters".

And I believe you should put a woman on a pedestal.. high enough so you can look up her dress.

And I believe in equality, equality for everyone.. no matter how stupid they are, or how much better I am than they are.

And, people say I'm crazy for believing this, but I believe that robots are stealing my luggage.

And I believe I made a mistake when I bought a 30-story 1-bedroom apartment.

And I believe the Battle of the Network Stars should be fought with guns.

And I believe that Ronald Reagan can make this country what it once was - an arctic region covered with ice.

And, lastly, I believe that of all the evils on this earth, there is nothing worse than the music you're listening to right now. That's what I believe.

firsttimeblogger, where have you been?

Boy, Arianna is hoppin' mad at Marie Brenner and her piece on Plamegate in Vanity Fair:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/vanity-fairs-judy_b_17242.html

Strictly speaking, I think I have to say that I believe more in democracy than politics. Politics may describe the actual practice of reconciling the competing factions in a nation, and bringing forward wise legislation, but it also describes the nuts and bolts of tyranny.

Paraphrasing of one of the best quotations ever, democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others.

hilarious piece, yellojkt! I sometimes believe that politicians are not only crooks who work solely for their own re-election. There are some out there who do good stuff. If I was emperor, politicians wouldn't allowed to be politicians before, let's say, age 50. Before that, they would have to have a 'real' job - something useful, truckdriver maybe, or bookdealer, or simply a physicist. Only after having accumulated sufficient wisdom in their trades, only then, they should be allowed to 'make politics'. Ha!

I find it hard to take Arianna Huffington seriously as the hard-hitting and no-nonsense voice of my side of the political argument (liberal), when I remember her as a conservative commentator, her voice dripping with contempt for the foolish fallacies of us liberals. Though she was never crazed and rabid like, say, Ann Coulter.

But I am turned on by a woman of her appearance (nifty!) using the term "circle jerk."

Yes, the 6:05 PM is really me. I'm so ashamed.

No shame Time. If I can freely admit my lust for Maureen Dowd, your feelings from realizing that AHuff is a filthy mouthed ho can be understood and accepted. Dirty talk is usually a turn-on. Unless Karl Rove is one doing the talking.

Politics, aha. We're getting down and dirty with this kit. Okay, we do that with all of them.

dr, you are so right, from the last kit.

Bless all, and may God, through Christ, give you good things. I love you all.

Politicians today are desperate people. They are faced with enormous and frighteningly ambiguous problems. Problems that do not respond to simple political solutions. Yet, to maintain any hope of doing something good, leaders need to be responsive to people who are unable or unwilling to handle complexity, and hence reduce everything down to simple philosophies. Politicians anymore aren’t given the freedom to creatively solve problems, for if the deviate too far from the Party Line they are viewed as heretics by small minded people for whom brand loyalty and single-issue politics matter most. Although people don’t burn heretics anymore, they also don’t contribute to their campaigns, which, to a politician, almost hurts as much.

The NPR voices *are* soothing.
So is the Weather Channel music. A blizzard could be on the way, and your travel plans could be all messed up because the airports are closed, but that peppy music makes you believe everything's going to be OK. You find yourself whistling along and tapping your feet while reading the sub-zero temperatures at the bottom of the screen.

Doo-doo-dooooooo-do.
Doo-doo-doo-doo.

>But too bad Shields doesn't mention one woman politician and her contribution to the nation..

Linda, you're referring to Katherine Harris?

(ducking....)

And may Odin, through Thor his son, welcome you to Valhalla.

Error Flynn,
Please inform me of the height of your crouch.

Don't get me started on Katherine Harris or on Therese LaPore, for that matter. Accordion-playing friend Kerry Christensen sings a nice little yodeling tune, "O Katarina, du bist ein Idiot..."

I just wanted to point out that Huffington uses the phrase "monolithic entity."

I note that the phrase "monolitic entity" results in 72,300 Google hits. This suggests that perhaps, just perhaps, I cannot claim absolute precedence in its use....

Linda, that would be telling, and enable you to sight me in that much better. I was heading under the desk, if you must know.

Sorry I couldn't resist, but I have the erstwhile Ms. Harris on my mind after the picture in today's WaPo of her on a horse. Then we got on the subject of rich women with controverial political viewpoints... At the risk of sounding like, well, a MAN, I would have had a completely different view of that stolen election if they had let her wear jeans on TV. Not opinion, but a much better view.

I'm thinking maybe we could have a Mary Matalin/James Carville sort of relationship. I mean, like Ms. Dowd and Huffington, she's hot, and rich, and um, hot. And did I mention rich? Politics? Yeah, whatever baby.

At least I'm honest. :-)

Speaking of soothing NPR voices, I could listen to "Reporting from Rome, this is Sylll-via Poggioli." all day long.

My understanding is that the word "politics" means, roughly, “to govern.” Unfortunately it has also come to mean, “to get and maintain power.” Unfortunately, those who are really good at the latter are not necessarily good at the former. A fact which has given politics, and politicians, such a bad name.

Sorry, Error, I like Carville much better than Matalin, so I'd have to play Carville, despite the fact that he did a ridiculous onion segment on NewsNight, is balder than bacon, and talks funny. But it was the economy, stupid!

I'm afraid anyone who is employed by Dick Cheney loses temperature points in a big hurry with me. She, IMHO, just doesn't have the goods like Dowd and Huffington. I rate her below freezing.

And puh-lease don't mention Valhalla unless you do it sotto voce, it'll disturb my distant great grand-daddy Alfred the Great of Wessex no end--makes him twist his beard into knots and ties his tighties into bunches.

I need the measurement not only of your crouch, but also of your inseam.

Error,
P.S.,
Might want to consult with Mudge on what it's like to spend a day under a desk. As I recall, he got tired of staring at the bubblegum and had some dermal problem with his knees.

>just doesn't have the goods
Please keep in mind I wasn't concentrating on intellectual cred, but I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Katherine, if you're reading, this is your chance to "Date A Libertarian Geek" and change your image. Think about it.

>And puh-lease don't mention Valhalla unless you do it sotto voce
I KNEW you'd be related! Sorry, I'm still working on the audio plug-in to get the voices right. I was in a Viking wedding though. Have the sword to prove it.

(oh geez.. what I mean is... oh nevermind. Sometimes a sword is just a sword, mm'kay?)

RD --

If you spell it right, "monolithic entity" gets 427,000 hits.

nellie, I am so looking forward to those speech recognition keyboards.

Joel, the six words you never ever want to hear in Appalachia: "You shore got a purty mouth."

"Monolithic Entity" would be a good 'Boodle handle, if anyone is looking for one.

Hmmmm, well I guess they've all gone out to the video store to rent Deliverance after the purty mouth reference. Since there's no one here, I'd just like to hearken back to the last Boodle enough to say that I hope Cassandra didn't feel ganged up on. She's a nice lady and I like to read what she has to say, but her frequent references to her faith can sometimes bother me. The fastest way to attract proselitizing is to announce your non-belief. Many don't see this as a legitimate viewpoint, just a challenge to their evangelical fervor.

Error,
You were caught thinking with your britches instead of your brain. *L*

k-guy,
I think Cassie and Dreamer represent different ends of the spirituality spectrum. Which is a great feature of this place.

I think this Boodle has everything--including the kitchen sink!

Bayou, right on as usual. I dub thee Sir Handle.

k-guy, I think Cassandra is a sweet person and I wish her well. I don't mind her expression of her faith, and I hope she doesn't mind seeing that there are any number of other cultures that have produced almost the exact same representation of whatever the heck it is.

For what it's worth, I'm perfectly happy to have her and anyone else pray for me. It's all good. My problem with religion in general is they've been co-opted by power-mad lunatics, whether domestic or foreign. Anyone acting in the teaching of Jesus, Buddha, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster is fine with me.

But at the same time I have to say, in a culture where every single utterance by our President is couched in specificallly-Christian flavor, I think it's worth noting that a whole bunch of people actually do NOT believe, fundamentally, the same thing about this Jesus guy. It's not just the 2% Jewish population, it's all the others and the number of people who identify as Christians but don't really believe. And ultimately there's about 2/3 of the planet that doesn't believe, and I think it'd be nice if the powers that be actually got that for once.

And I think it'd be nice if I didn't have to apologize for noting it.

You know, you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but at the same time I'll tell you this: "Freebird" sucks.

Gee,
Now we've got Sir 'Bach and Sir Handel. What's next, Sir Mozart?

I heart Mark Shields. Funny, wise guy (and a wiseguy, too) - his face is so typically Irish it makes me smile.

And Art Buchwald - what a treasure he is. I haven't had a chance yet to read his thoughts from the hospice. He wrote such wonderful columns in the Watergate era.

Wonderful NPR voice - Wade Goodwin. He's in Texas, and talk about smooth - I could listen to him all day long (not to mention all night!)

Error: do you really think everything W says is "couched in specifically Christian flavor?" I dont see that at all. Granted, I often don't understand what is coming out of his mouth anyway, but to say that it is all Christian is erroneous. I'm probably putting words in your mouth, sorry for that.
k-guy about Cassandra, I think that it is awesome that she is so willing so share her views and faith on this blog. I'm sure that she doesn't mean for anyone to feel awkward. Everyone is quick to share about politics, bean recipies, porch stories, etc. so why not faith? and i'm not trying to preach at you, i'm just admiring her willingness to share her beliefs.
error: don't feel like you need to apologize for noting that most of the world isn't Christian, or that many who claim to be dont actually believe it. you have a very valid point, that many politicians have a tendency to force their religious view on their constituents. There is a difference in believing in something and standing up for what you believe in, and assuming that other people believe the same. Speaking only for myself, my faith is the most important thing in my life. I look for opportunities to share it, but I try hard to not adopt a "holier-than-thou," force my views on you attitude. In my mind, that is the height of hypocracy.
Power will always corrupt, whether in government, religion, or whatever. It is the nature of out fallen world.

Dear tangent,

Not everything, but he goes out of his way. There's no question theey've made that a cornersone of his campaigns, on whatever front. I personally don't believe a Christian point-of-view is compatible with screwing the poorest among us. I don't actually think Mr. Bush is insincere in his faith, but I think it's pretty useful governmentally to shove the burden of Katrina on faith-based organizations.

B@stards.

Something I find strange about the Heaven/Hell belief system is that so many people seem fine with the idea that a bunch of *other* people are going to Hell. To me, this seems inconsistent with the whole point of Christianity -- or of any religion.

According to one school of thought -- one that appeals to me personally -- if we're ever going to get ourselves back to the garden, as it were, we're all going to have to go there together; it won't be a matter of taking care of ourselves, and everyone else be da*ned. And the only way we're going to get there is through forgiveness and compassion -- not through fear, blame, judgment, guilt, or competition. Perhaps that was Jesus' message. If so, we don't seem to have made much progress over the past 2,000 years.

And as we've discussed on this 'blog before, Hell could just be another word for the the miseries we've created for ourselves here on earth, rather than a punishment from a God who, paradoxically, is a loving one. I like to think of "Heaven" as transcendence of this living Hell -- an awakening from this Maya, or Samsara, or whatever else people call it. (Another paradox: If God is love, why would He sentence us to this Hell on Earth? Well, maybe He didn't -- maybe we're doing all this to ourselves through the choices we make, and we need to start making better ones.)

There are some great statistics in the introduction to Michael Shermer's book "Science Friction: Where the Known Meets the Unknown" (which, unfortunately, I don't have in front of me right now) about people's beliefs about who's going to Heaven and who's not. Basically, most people believe that they themselves are going to Heaven, but they're less confident in other people's fitness for Heaven (in the same way that most people believe themselves to be above-average employees even though, by definition, they can't all be right). I guess it's a variation on the speck-in-your-own-eye/log-in-your-neighbor's-eye story.

SCC:
I think I meant speck in your neighbor's eye and log in your own eye. (I'm a little rusty on my New Testament. Perhaps I should have used "'mudge not lest you be 'mudged" instead.)
But you get my drift.

my 3rd ever post and i messed up...
OT...
Achenfan if you are out there. THe hair salon I mentioned in HK is/was? on Pottinger St (we think) in the mid-levels....in the vicinity of Lan Kwai Fong --- expat bar district. Also, (again assuming) if you're an Aussie you might want to look into joining the Australian Association. They're a good group of people and have a decent happy hour once a month at the Australian consulate.

unknown to most, I'm beginning to see why you're so unknown, what with the blank posts and all -- a 'boodler of few words.

[You know I'm kidding, right? Besides, still waters run deep.]

[Oops -- I jumped the gun.]

Thanks, unknown!
And hey, I'd love to hear about your own Hong Kong adventures some time, if you feel so inclined. (But no pressure, of course.)

you're welcome.
And unfortunately my adventures were fairly tame...mostly working.
My partner, on the other hand, had quite the time as the 'trailing spouse'. He was the first male member of the HK Australian Women's Association...renamed the 'Social Group' or something equally gender neutral once he was appointed to the committee.

I will rope him in to share some adventures at some point...he's at Uni at the moment and I am sitting quietly at home avoiding the 'thrill' of the Commonwealth Games as the madness descends on Melbourne.

Dreamer: I think that to some extent you are right about heaven and hell. Some of the main points of true Christianity are compassion and forgiveness, and while judgement is part of Christianity, the whole message of the gospel is a message of hope and grace through faith, not condemnation.
The afterlife is probably the one thing that is completely over-hyped, in any religion. Fear of the unknown, especially death, is natural. But the obsession with the afterlife that grips our everyday life is, in my mind, unhealthy. Our efforts, and i have no idea where you stand theologically, should be directed to this world. There are more than enough here-and-now issues that need our attention, (Katrina, AIDS, racism, etc.) all of which transcend religious boundaries in their call for our help
I am not a theologian, so I can't really articulate a picture of heaven/hell. I do believe in an afterlife, and I am confident that my faith in Christ will get me there. What it will look like, I have no idea, nor am I overly worried about it. There are some things that our finite minds cannot grasp. Heaven is one of them. There are other seemingly paradoxical elements of Christianity, but it's late and i have class tomorrow. Not that i really know what i'm talking about anyway.

you HK guys are just too cool. :-)

Happy thoughts from a rural recluse.

What's a belief, and why are beliefs apparently exempt from rational examination? Is believing 1+1=3 better than thinking 1+1=3?

jg:
I guess if you *believe* 1+1=3, no-one's going to be able to convince you otherwise, whereas if you merely *think* 1+1=3, you may very well change your mind if someone points out that you've made an error. One tends to believe on the basis of faith and think on the basis of experience or data. Not necessarily any exemption involved; that's just the way it is.

"Herein lies an important lesson. There is little to no chance that we can convince True Believers of the errors of their thinking."

-- From "Science Friction," by Michael Shermer

[Of course, often the words "believe" and "think" are interchangeable, e.g., "Why, I do believe it's started to rain!"]

[It's possible we're overthinking this.]

[That doesn't sound like us -- at all.]

The Huffington piece on Brenner unavoidably suggests an old beast reincarnate:

Genus: Amoeba
Specie: bloviatus
ssp: achenbachanalia

It is an infectious, parasitical and changeable life form moving from place to place by pseudonomia; essential to provocation of thought in supposedly higher animals and given to sudden outbreaks of guffaws and giggles.

Marie Brenner's characterization "the noisy new democracy of the blogs" has a George III ring to it, like the rant of a mad king losing his grip on reality as he loses his colonies. Huffington's retort is little more than an old-fashioned cat fight, verbal scratching, back-biting and pulling hair. All's fair in war and journalism. They all, somewhat mysteriously, take themselves seriously. And that's the humor of it.

To me, it all reeks of umbrage. And I think the world would be a far better place without umbrage -- unrecognizable, perhaps.

Hey guys, I am not offended one bit. And it certainly is not my intention to offend anyone on this blog by expressing my beliefs. I pray for all, and try to convey that message, and it is a true prayer as much as I am able. I do not take offense that some don't believe, or that it irks them to no end, because I am always professing my beliefs. But just like we talk about recipes, politics, and any number of things, I talk about faith and belief. See Christ came into my life, and it just hasn't been the same. And I want good things for all of you, in your home, your jobs, your life. So I pray for you, and it doesn't matter whether you belive or not, because the basis of Christianity is love. Love to God through Christ, and love to our fellowman. I would rather love you than hate you, and I can't be nitpicking about that love, I have to love all. I am not offended in the least, and my prayer for you does not change, because in my heart, I do want good things for you. Scriptures says that God would have all men to be saved, and love is the answer to that, it was then, and it is now.

Hear hear, Cassandra.
"I would rather love you than hate you." -- Hard to argue with that.
"Love is the answer." Indeed.

Omnia vincit amor. Love conquers all.

Okay, I am a born-again Christian, it shouldn't be a secret, and I've said it before here. It's great that we have so many different viewpoints and nobody should be threatened or offended by anyone's beliefs or lack of them.

Thomas Jefferson said that when he read the Bible, it was perfectly obvious which parts of it were authentic and which parts had been made up, added on. He went through and cut out all the bogus parts, and ended up with The Jefferson Bible, his own version. Now, that is obviously heresy, but Jefferson is one of my secular heroes and I find it endearing and inspiring. I summon his spirit to say this:

It's perfectly obvious to me who in this world is doing God's work, and who is doing the work of Satan. I look for love, compassion, positive energy of all kinds--that's God at work. When a person is spreading hatred, violence, death, negativity--he's working for Satan. I don't have to look to see which flag the person is waving, and I don't have to hear his statement of belief.

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe (or think) that George W. Bush really IS a Christian. I think he figured out that it was a good way to get what he wanted. I don't think he believes at all.

Need to get out of trouble? Say you've become Born Again. People love it and no one thinks someone would LIE about it. [Well, apparently I do.] And look how far it got him.

I just really don't see how someone can really be a Christian and do the things he has done as president. It just doesn't fit and I also don't see how his "fellow" Christians don't see it too.

Oh! kb... my timing there was TERRIBLE. I wasn't saying that everyone who calls themselves "Born Again" is false. Just GWB.

Yikes. Talk about a BOO.

TBG, I guess you could say George gives "born-again" a bad name...

Happy Ides of March, folks!

Friends, Boodlers, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to go off-topic from Joel, not to praise him.
The words that men write live after them;
The flyaway hair is oft interred with their bones:
So let it be with Joel. The noble Hal
Hath told you Joel was ambitious:
If it were so, it was hardly a fault;
And by writing while Carbucking, Starbucking and Porching hath Joel answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Hal and the rest (and She Who Must Be Obeyed) ,--
For Hal is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honorable men (except for, You Know Who),--
Come I to Boodle in Joel’s Blog.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Hal says he was ambitious;
And Hal is an honourable man.
He hath brought many captured comments home to his den,
Whose Kit and Caboodle did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Joel seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Joel hath wept:
Ambition *is* made of sterner stuff:
Yet Hal says he was ambitious;
And Hal is an honourable man.

bc
by way of
bs

PS There's a low-hanging comment left for someone, isn't there?

The reincarnate Hindu, and Buddhist rebirth are, of course, akin to the born again Christian - a latecomer to the concept of renewal through mysticism. GWB is undeniably a mysterious Christian who gives that religion a bad name.

jg: my faith is based on reason, not exempt from it. that does not mean that i understand everything about it, nor does that mean that i blindly follow withour challenging what i believe.
TBG: wow, that's a pretty strong statement. i guess i am too trusting, and i take him at his word. one of the things that christians are warned against is judgment concerning salvation, so i guess thats why i thank God, literally, for not having to make that call. i do agree with you though, that his actions in office have not always, or even consistently, been "Christian."

Some time ago there was a young man experiencing a crises of faith. His intellect was in conflict with his religious beliefs. He was in anguish. Respected leaders in his community tried to quell his doubts. The words were different, but the message was familiar. "Let go and let God." "If God is your copilot, switch seats." "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." As I read the transcript of his internet chat I could almost sense the moment when the young man's doubts were finally suppressed through the awesome power of his faith.
The next day he walked onto a bus and blew himself up.

TBG, I think your timing was perfect. Let's say it was God at work. Mysterious ways, you know.

Could be it's time for a song:

What If God Was One of Us

If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with him
In all his glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
and all the prophets

And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

-- Joan Osborne

I'm a little bothered that anyone would be bothered by the frequency or the content of Cassandra's comments on her faith. They are always a welcome reminder that Jesus is a loving God and not to be feared. And it's touching that someone I've never met prays for me. Almost everyone here seems to have a forte or special interest. LindaLoo's ancestry and adventures, CowTown's fiction, kurosawaguy's knowledge of films, Tim's science, (Curmudgeon is all over the place!). Perhaps I speak too much of Mr. Nani and the g-gg-kidlets. But that's where my heart is.

I just hope nobody is bothered by Nani being bothered by someone being bothered by Cassandra's comments.

As Winnie the Pooh would say, "Bother!"

Curmudgeon is a Renaissance Man.

Let's not bother with bother.
National Umbrage Day is still a good six months away.

I though April 15th was National Umbrage Day.

We haven't had a word of the day for a while!

How about this one:

umbrageous--adj. 1. Affording or forming shade; shady or shading. 2. Easily offended; irritable.

umbrageously adv. umbrageousness n.

Bye

kguy - Please don't run away at the first hint of criticism. You contribute too much. If we are not honest on these posts then the terrorists will have won. Or something.

bc: Way to paraphrase/parody the Bard, Dude. That was excellent.

And Cassandra: Bless you. Keep on writing.

Joel,

Thanks for the "dueling banjos" and "Deliverance" references; we just never hear that enough.
Apparantly political correctness only applies to coastal states. I guess you believe little Dutch children run about in wooden shoes, too. Nice.

During the winter months, the audio on my NPR stations is really bad and I have to move around and find a particular spot in the room to get clear sound and then stay there. Not too much of a "BOTHER" (oh no, she said the B word) when listening to Diane Rehm, but really annoying during the opera. Summers it works just fine.

Politics and religion in todays world collide. Its been written how the very lack of hope of any political power fuels the ardent fundamentalism of so many middle easetrn nations. Relgion is the one place where it is safe for them to speak at all. Is it possible that the only freedom they can visualise and believe to be possible is the one they have some access through their religion?

At the same time, western thinking feels like its becoming more fundamentalist, more structured and strictured. Not just religious fundamentalist, but fundamentalist politically, and socially too. It seems so often today no one will take the time to simply listen, and hear, politically, religiously, and in every other way. We have as a society forgotten that a truth to us might look very different when viewed from another point.

Not really sure where I am going with this, but the talk of religion and politics and reading Dionne' article this morning, just made me think.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/14/AR2006031401116.html

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only reason I'm a Renassaince Man is 'cause that's when I graduated from high school. *rimshot*

Little Dutch children DON'T run around in wooden shoes? Eurotrash, please verify! *rimshot*

Actually, Nani, I'm really not so much "all over the place." If anybody's noticed (and it's OK that they haven't), I tend to stay out of all these religious discussions, mainly because I have my own peculiar set of curmudgeonly and cranky views on the subject. *no rimshot*

bc, loved the Shakespeare parody (or rather, the Earl of Oxford parody as Loomis would misguidedly have us believe)(I'm a true-believing Bardist, having found the contrary views unpersuasive).

I, too, think umbragitudinousness should be the word of the day.

Truly, I'm very sorry and didn't mean to be flippant or offend anyone.

Nani, your comment wasn't flippant. It was the commenters to your comment that were facetious and smart-alecky.

We all love you, Nani. There aren't many subjects on which we all agree, but I think that's one.

scc: *who* were, and ignore that double "comment"--not guilty, there.

And now I shall join kurosawaguy because I'm boring myself with too many comments.

Umbrage? no. Self-loathing? oh, yeah.

dr, have you seen Jimmy Carter's new book, Our Endangered Values? I haven't read it but have heard discussions on what he says. Fundamentalism is a true threat to our civilization, West and East.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743284577/sr=8-1/qid=1142436552/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2113015-2943067?%5Fencoding=UTF8

bc, loved the parody. Had to learn that speech by heart in the 10th grade. My English class went to see the late 40's movie of Julius Caesar, and chanted lines along with the actors. Great play, terrible movie, even with the stellar cast. I'm definitely a Stratfordian.

Happy Ides of March!

Friendly reminder: If your name is Caesar, watch your back today.

"Almighty Jupiter, who both engendered and fathered kings, things, and gods, God of Gods, who are both One and All"

I must admit, although I have never been a huge fan of Jimmie Carter, I agree whole heartedly with his assessment of Fundamentalism. I think I have found my next book to read.

The Ides of March following a Full Moon. Dang. That can't be good.
Et tu Brute.

Thanks for the nice comments re. my mangling of the Bard.

I shy away from discussions of religious faith because I don't think it's appropriate for me to discuss something I have little of.

I believe that everyone has a right to their personal Observations upon which they build their reality. Everyone has a right to their own certainty, just as I have a right to my own Uncertainty. Since Uncertainty is proveable scientifically (AFAIC), I've chose to make it one of the central Principles of my life.

As dearly as I'd like Someone To Answer for All This when I pass on (maybe to Give Them A Piece of my Mind), and have enough human arrogance to believe that I could actually Understand It All if it were explained to me, I 'spect that when I Shuffle Off, I'll find everyone who ever Observed this 'verse staring back at me as if my fly were open.

Which it is/will be.

I'll zip up, but The Staring will continue.
"Now what?" I ask.

This I Believe.

bc

I've spoken often on how much I admire Carter, so thank you for the book info.

Which of the philosophers said something about moderation in all things?

We do not want churches because they will teach us to quarrel about God, as the Catholics and Protestants do. We do not want to learn that.

We may quarel with men sometimes about things on this earth. But we never quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that.

Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

Benjamin Franklin--moderation in all things, Poor Richard's Almanac, I believe...

Dang! Where's Walter Isaacson when we really could use his help!

Tangent - Bush often incorporates Christian and biblical overtones in his speeches. To a degree, it's blatant and out there for all to hear. To another degree, it's a form of dog-whistle politics, where intended recipients of the message hear it loud and clear while, for most of the rest of the audience, it doesn't register.

kbertocci - Last night on The Daily Show, Jon Stewart had the author of a book on how the bible came about, what with scribes writing everything by hand, making errors in what they copied and even making changes that they thought were either an editorial improvement or simply more in line with what they believed. Darned if I can remember the author's name or the title of the book, or I'd cite it here.

So anyway, I'm reminded now of Mel Brooks as Moses in that History of the World movie. "I hold in my hand these 15 (he then drops one of three stone tablets, leaving two remaining ones) ... 10 commandments."

Did I mention that my God has a sense of humor?

Error Flynn - Just doing my part on the 'Boodle handles. I picture lurkers, wishing to post — nay, pining to post — but feeling inadequate in the handle department. "Pining to post," by the way, is available ...

Oh, kber again - I used to do that Word of the Day thing with some regularity. I've been slipping. But I also haven't seen too many good candidates lately. It used to be that Joel, with some regularity, would toss in a fancy-pants word here and there that would send me to the dictionary, but he hasn't done that so much lately. If the Word of the Day highlighting led him to look deeply into his writerly soul, and to then stick to words that people might understand without need for translation, so be it. (Some of the writers where I work often lapse into French, for crying out loud.) But I suspect the lack of highfalutin JA words lately is either just by chance or an oversight on my part, what with the fancy words perhaps getting by me in a mischevious form of dog-whistle politics. Anyway, I'll see what I can do.

That confirms it then! Mudge, I just knew that you graduated high school in 1453.

I believe that philosopher would be the esteemed Dr. B. Franklin, who noted "Moderation in all things, including moderation." Although, I think he was paraphrasing and amplifying upon the work of an earlier sage.

Last night at dinner the kids asked if, according to Christian faith, Jesus was God or the SON of God, and I found it very hard to explain, and got badly bogged down in a discussion of the Holy Trinity. I need to do more research, clearly.

New kit, non-religious in nature, of a type to which no one will take umbrage, coming shortly.

'New kit, non-religious in nature, of a type to which no one will take umbrage, coming shortly.'

thanks for the happy prospect! Although, there's nothing to be said against a bit of daily umbrage...

i'm so sorry if i sounded snarky!! please take no umbrage!

on the other hand - look at what religion has done to us just this week... "Chef" is quitting south park cuz they busted on scientology! no more Chef! what hath the gods wrat? (please take this as a joke!!)

error - you don't live in dc and you don't live in nyc any longer and you said you are rural... you wouldn't possibly fess up to what your 411 is?

One day, after spending many fruitless nights trying to fully comprehend the Mystery of the Holy Trinity, St. Augustine was walking along the beach as an attempt to clear and sooth his mind. As he was wandering, he came across a young boy playing on the beach. The boy had dug a hole in the sand, and was racing back and forth between the ocean and his hole filling his bucket from the sea and emptying it into his hole.
St. Augustine watched the boy for a few minutes, then approached, asking:"My son, what is it you are trying to accomplish?".

The boy looked up and said, "I'm going to empty the ocean into this hole".

St. Augustine laughed, saying, "My dear child, you cannot possibly empty the ocean into that small hole!".

The boy stopped, looked the saint straight in the eye, and said in a voice that struck St. Augustine straight to his soul, "I have a far better chance of emptying the oceans of the world into this tiny hole, than you have of completely understanding the mystery of the Trinity, Augustine."

With that, the boy vanished, leaving St. Augustine alone on the beach. The saint realized that he had been visited by an angel, and realized that he had reached the limits of his comprehension of the Mystery.

mo, the rural part is somewhat disengenuous, I sort of have the best of both worlds.

Tell ya what, drop me a line here:

errorflynn (at) mac.com

"the kids asked if, according to Christian faith, Jesus was God or the SON of God, and I found it very hard to explain"

I'm convinced the Church Fathers figured all that out by holding a really long Boodle, punctuated by the occasional Church Council in some nice resort town.

Oh, I'm enjoying this debate. I like Carter's take on Fundamentalism. When TBG doubts Bush is a true christian...
I have some preacher friends, and from them I hear about how many people seem to be into church stuff for power and self-importance, rather than opening up their hearts. Just hearing about some church politics is enough to make me agree with Chief Joseph.
I agree with TBG that Bush has mangled Christanity to his ends-- probably not much more than many "active christians" but it is particularly offensive in his case due to his position of power and agenda.
Word of the day: Guerdon: A reward, recompense. Hmm...
"Heavenly Guerdon!" sounds like an oath.

I like Heinlein's take on moderation:

Moderation is for monks, everything in excess!

Joel - the Holy Trinity is definitely complex to explain: God in 3 forms - Father, Son and Spirit. It is something we will not fully understand until we see Him face to face.
Faith is such a personal thing that it easily leads to umbrage because everyone holds on to their beliefs so tightly. One reason why non-Christians take umbrage at Christianity is that it really does not allow for the viability of other religions - Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life and there's no other way to God except Him. That's hard for many to accept - but what if it's true? Of course we have to wait till the Ultimate Test to truly know for sure, but we can all communicate with God in the here and now if we just believe. If you sincerely ask God to reveal Himself to you, He will. Trust me on this.

shiloh -- am a bit confused on your comments re: reincarnate Hinduism and Buddhism being akin to born again Christianity.

To become a born again Christian, one finds Jesus, in this life, and commits the rest of one's life to Him. Hence, "born again," -- into a different way of life, a different way of knowing.

In Hinduism, the soul (atman) is born again and again, into different corporeal forms (not always human -- depends upon karma). If one were to become a Hindu during this lifetime, say, on a trip to India, that would not be considered as "born again." It may be seen as that person having been a Hindu before, or something else.

In Buddhism, there is no belief in a soul at al (anatman -- the antithesis of the atman concept in Hinduism). Buddhists believe that there is consciousness, or mind, that travels through rebirth after rebirth, since beginingless time. But the concept differs from that of a soul -- this can get confusing, because mind,in Buddhism, collects positive or negative karma based on good or bad deeds throughout millions of lifetimes. For instance, the cirumstances of my birth and the conditions in my life are a result of my collective karma -- good and bad.

I can purify my karma by doing virtuous things, and also be purification ceremonies.

The idea of Buddhism is to escape the cycles of rebirth, death and rebirth again, and free the mind so that it may enter nirvana. Unless one is a Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhist, where the goal is to become enlightened (the mind is competely free of attachment to material or other things, it has become omniscient and is filled with bliss and compassion) -- then the goal is to use one's enlightened state to compassionately choose rebirth again (to become a bodhisattva) to help all sentient beings (not just humans).

So the height of Buddhism is great compassion for all beings.

I think this is the one true thread (for any of you who have managed to slog through all of the above) of all religions.

True, unconditional love for all other creatures, and a desire to help relieve suffering. Compassion for all.

I'll just note that Buddhists believe Jesus was a bodhisattva -- an enlightened being who came to Earth in human form out of great compassion to help others. There are myths in some strains of Buddhism that Jesus went to India in his life.

I really doubt that. I think he represented, for instance in the Sermon on the Mount, those universal values about which I spoke of.

Anyway, this is a heck of a ways away from NPR, but again, probably not.

By the way, monolithic entity could mean an entity that is one big, bad stone.

enough for now . . .

Have your kids read "Flatland" and ask them if they figured out the Trinity yet. Heck, it'll buy you time to stall, and they'll enjoy a mathematical classic.

The Trinity is based on "Wisdom and her children" in the bible, The reference to the Lord, and Jesus as God/the Son of God. So just say it is based on careful analysis of the bible.

Or, if you like to explain nuclear physics, say God is the stablized element, the Holy spirit is the emitted radioactivity, and Christ was the brief, unstable radioactive state.

What the heck Achenbach, you're a writer, come up with a metaphor of 3. Man, woman, human.
3 unifies what would seem to be black/white in 2 parts. Many pagan gods and goddesses had 3 aspects. It seems to tap into some deep-rooted theology of number and language limitation.
The french "tres"-- 'too, a lot, very' comes directly from the french Three.
Sell it as a metaphor for God's greatness and unmeasurable grandeur.

And promise if they'll shut up they'll get some good guerdon from God. ;).

bc, BZ (Bravo Zulu - Navyspeak for "well done", or does everybody know that by now?) on the W. Shakespeare.

Also, BZ to all the wonderful folks who have thusfar, and will continue to weigh in on the subject of their various religious faiths. This is one of the most thoughtful, knowledgeable, insightful, and diverse group that I am aware of. I, for one, really appreciate the views of each of you, whether or not they agree with mine.

I see this morning’s discussion as a continuation of an exchange I started yesterday about Art Buchwald. Like him, I'm dealing with cancer. Unlike him, I'm much younger, and have every expectation of having all of it removed soon. Also unlike him, I'm a Christian fundamentalist. Unlike some Christian fundamentalists, I welcome the exchange of differing viewpoints. I'm still pondering the idea that K-guy gave me yesterday, (about the difference between knowledge and beliefs) and will be for some time to come.

This is what makes you guys so GREAT. A one-stop shop for all of the knowledge in the entire universe!

That said, it's lunchtime. All this blathering has made me hungry.

I'd like to take a moment to remember my grandfather. Back in the 70s, after the church had ordained that one should say "the Father, the Son and the holy spirit" in lieu of the holy "ghost," he refused to make the change. And anytime that any of that was being recited, he made it his business to say "ghost," with just enough volume and just enough conviction to stand out and be heard.

I'm trying to get my hubby out the door on his way to the cradle of liberty...yet again, and the Boodle scintillates with a discussion of religion.

Joel, are you moving to a discussion of "the feminine sacred?" *L*

Forget not Savonarola!

Yes, I was class of 53 (1453). Took Johann Gutenberg's younger sister, Melissa, to the prom (she was rumored to...you know...but she didn't, the saucy wench). IIRC, our prom theme was "Hurrah to the French Capture of Bordeaux, the Death of the Earl of Shrewsbury and the End of the Hundred Years War!" (We were a pretty politically savy and anti-war bunch back then.) Little Peggy March was the prom guest entertainer; she sang "I Will Follow Him," a big hit amongst the Dominicans, Jesuits, Anababtists, Knights Templar, Flagellants and "White Penitents," albino monks from Opus Dei, etc., in our parish.

Always wondered whatever happened to Melissa.

OmoD-- I read the bible and it doesn't say those who don't believe in Jesus as the way will go to hell.

(Maybe there is a verse I overlooked, since this is such a common belief, but I remember something about upright men who fear God?).

I figure if Jesus died to save mankind, he did it for even unbelievers. That he is the way and the life merely means that. It does not say "believing in me is the way to eternal life."

Therefore, I figure all infidels, have a shot at heaven even if that text is truer than anything we can imagine. You don't have to believe in a road (a way) to be on it.

Of course, I might have problems arguing this theological position with fundies, but sigh, I've found I often know the bible better than most fundies I debate with-- and I am no scholar.

The fundies that actually tend to express some POVs that would be congrent with what I believe, always have the best bible scholarship I've seen.

I had a fun debate with a woman who was reading the most obscure prophets in the bible and telling me what they were talking about. A very, very dedicated scholar, she had been reading the bible for 20 years. She was definitely enlightened-- I discussed other faiths with her, she loved it.

People who are the most aggressive about their beliefs are often trying to cover up how weakly they believe and understand, IMO.

its hard to explain, but easy to dismiss

I don't know how I signed myself as Achenbach above... (I posted the suggestion about Flatland). Hope Joel wasn't wondering how he developed an alter ego.

My parents liked to tell the story of me and a now long-gone TV show called Masquerade Party. I think the premise of the TV show was that the guests dressed in various guises and the panel or the audience tried to guess who was under the costume or disguise. I was but a wee child so I have no strong or vivid memories of the program. (Mudge?)

But we three--my parents and I--don't know if my sis had entered the picutre yet--were sitting on the steps of Yosemite Lodge or the General Store (but Yosemite was the setting), and three Catholic nuns or sisters passed by. My parents tell the story that I once I saw their black and white habits, I yelled out, quite loudly, as an innocent and unworldly child, "Masquerade Party #3," or a close approximation thereof.

joel - i grew up in catholic school and still can't explain the holy trinity to anyone...

nelson - i really enjoyed what you wrote... i studied a lot of theology in college - hinduism, buddhism, doaism, judaism... i found i like a mixture of buddhism and doasim the most appealling - be good to each other, yourself and the mother earth and all is right with the world... i also strongly believe in karma and i'm leaning towards nirvana as my view of the afterlife - whether i'll achieve that or not, well... that remains to be seen... i like the thought of jesus being a bodhisattva - for some reason that gave me a warm fuzzy...

New boodle. Yeah, the Trinity can only be explained through metaphor.

Mo, I like Daoism myself. I find myself a Daoist by philosophy and I keep wondering how much I can mix this with Christianity. A pastor friend of mine claims I can. I wonder.

Wilbrod, I will see if I can turn me into you at 11:32, using the mighty powers of Moveable Type.

I vaguely remember Masquerade Party, LindaLoo, but refreshed my memory with this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044275/
I have vague recollections of some of the panelists, who names won't mean diddly to most of the boodlers: Jinx Falkenberg, Sam Levinson (very funny, likeable), Ilka Chase, Ogden Nash (still love his stuff), etc. Apparently Jonathan Winters was a panelist for one year, but I don't remember him from that. It ran from the time I was in 1st grade to 9th grade. I do remember Bud Collyer was the host, so that was the earliest period--1st, 2nd, 3rd grade.

Here are your new politics, which is coming out of your future pockets, folks:

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

I just wanted to say, I think it is awesome that we all have the freedom to come together and blog about religion. We all bring different viewpoints and backgrounds, but are granted the right to discuss without fear of state-imposed repercussions. Freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, whatever you want to call it, is amazing, and too often we take it for granted. I'm sorry if sometimes i seem pushy or it seems like i'm preaching at you, that is not my intent. I have experienced the most amazing gift in the world in God's redeeming grace and power, and i try to share that with people. sorry if I seem over-bearing or judgemental.

On the Pacific Coast, you know you've escaped the Urbanites and their wiles when you hear Jefferson Public Radio from the mythical State of Jefferson.

Reasons to visit Jefferson include pears, stinky mineral water in Ashland, and Shakespeare.

>You don't have to believe in a road (a way) to be on it.

Wilbrod, that's excellent. See y'all in the new kit.

Weighing in late, as usual...

The book about the writing of the Bible mentioned by Bayou Self | March 15, 2006 10:56 AM is probably "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why", by Bart D. Ehrman, which I'm currently reading.

And now for a musical break brought to you by XTC:

Dear God,
Hope you got the letter,
And I pray you can make it better down here.
I don’t mean a big reduction in the price of beer,
But all the people that you made in your image,
See them starving on their feet,
’cause they don’t get enough to eat

From God,
I can’t believe in you.

Dear God,
Sorry to disturb you,
But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,
And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street,
’cause they can’t make opinions meet,
About god,
I can’t believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

Dear God,
Don’t know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,
And all the people that you made in your image,
Still believing that junk is true.
Well I know it ain’t and so do you,
Dear God,
I can’t believe in,
I don’t believe in,

I won’t believe in heaven and hell.
No saints, no sinners,
No devil as well.
No pearly gates, no thorny crown.
You’re always letting us humans down.
The wars you bring, the babes you drown.
Those lost at sea and never found,
And it’s the same the whole world ’round.
The hurt I see helps to compound,
That the father, son and holy ghost,
Is just somebody’s unholy hoax,
And if you’re up there you’ll perceive,
That my heart’s here upon my sleeve.
If there’s one thing I don’t believe in...

It’s you,
Dear God.

I prefer to see the unvarnished truth...

but, I think most people prefer something gentler like Halley's MO.

I just believe in me.

your leaders?

will sell anything that isn't nailed down...

without giving the citizens of the United States honest and fair representation...if they can't steal the towels, they don't want to check in....they're part of the visit right, they're paid for....corruption is just part of the congressional life...

comeon...give me a break...

a high school student could tell you what happens if you don't work with the ecology of a system.....everything breaks...

that's what is happening to us as a group, the citizens of the united states of america.

there is such a thing as a human ecology, one that keeps all things working towards a sustainable future....

look at the bushe trying to appear "in touch" with the future by "supporting alternative fuels"

too little, not at all...photo op.

you want the effin thing to work, raise gas prices to $3.50 a gallon and bank the excess to pay for infrastructure changes giving freight companies some time and some leeway to get better rates....legislate change that we as a nation can adapt to....THAT IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE,

not some orchestrated Oz show called find the terrorists but don't look at what I'm doing...

trains, making city life pleasurable, workers that telecommute, blah blah blah, it could happen....they effin telecommute from friggin India every day....they trust them, why not you?

ask Capitol ONE....formerly of Fredericksburg VA, now from Bangalore India....3,000 jobs.

but you make changes to make sure that the future is a good one....not just for you and your oil invested family...

why should g. w. bush worry about rising oil prices?

he's in the business, why would he interrupt that business to help out his country, that would get in the way of his, his families, and his family friends profits.

mo,

I also like the idea of Jesus being a bodhisattva (sung to the tune of "Jeremiah was a Bullfrog" -- "jesus was a bodhisattva, he was a good friend of mine . . ." oops, sorry!) -- makes everything ecumenical, which is my personal favorite outlook --

Respect and have compassion for all sentient beings, live by the Golden Rule, unconditional love; I do believe these ideas lie at the heart of most major beliefs.

Actually, I took a course in Islam in college (long time ago). The old Muslim caliphate had a lot of respect for the other "people of the book," (Jews and Christians, the other 2 faiths of Abraham). They were called "dhimmi" and although they did not always have full citizenship rights, they were protected.

I was brought up Catholic, and that's a lot like being Irish (also). It's hard to change the label. But I've made an arc over the decades, after a lot of reading and reflecting, and living, that has landed me in the buddhist camp.

I still struggle with the difference between the soul and the concept of "Mind" which can still be indivualized enough to have "drops" of it collect karma over infinite lifetimes -- but it's where i am today. Actually I struggle with the concept of karma -- it gets very intense and difficult to believe when one really gets into the teachings of Tibetan Buddhism.

I doubt I'll achieve anything great as a buddhist in this lifetime, but when I am disciplined with my meditation, the benefits are grand. I can stay pretty calm most of the time (DC traffic snarls don't count).

i do enjoy a great discussion about religion. I'm sorry k-guy couldn't stick around. No one is screaming in the boodle. Normally in American society today, once religion comes up, the shouting begins. So sad . . .

just a thought, as a Christian i think that many people who profess to be the same are quite deluded. a pretty careful reading of the new testament will reveal that Christ's mission was to heal, help and encourage, not destroy, judge or perpetuate war on evil. the very stature of a Christian should be non-violent. to call the current administration Christian (re: W's use of "Christocentric" language) is like calling a person with a burgundy jacket and a gold watch a diehard redskin fan...

belief..

there are multiple levels of understanding.

you also have to realize that brahmanism, bon, hinduism influence Tibetan Buddhism..

karma's different than it's explained by most...

self in buddhism is really the filter of personal experience.

there are stages that one goes through.

it's not like believe this one thing and it will remain true.

like most groups there are different interpretations of scripture, but the long and the short of it is:

if you're not experiencing something then you're not learning, it has very little to do with belief.

and many of the teachers have reduced Tibetan Buddhism to belief, anytime you develop lineage, you're trying to own.

sufism, yoga, buddhism are the most experential

I trust experience.

filtering is about interpreting.

it is possible to perceive what you are experiencing without interpreting it..

this is called being empty, experiencing clear light.

"clear light," implies unsullied by the act of perceiving, not altering the information as part of the perceptive process.

having an opinion, is not the same as direct perception.

you remain faithful to the

intent

and

content

you can take a signal/truth/event and change it but you use it as it's own truth...it is called fidelity...

comparison to the original is the test of fidelity.

you alter the surface of the recording media,

you read the surface/signal/encoding and convert it to a close similie to the original exertion in electronic form and

display it upon a device which exhibits similar characteristics to the original creating process

screen,

or

speaker.

I believe in politics, but I disagree with the idea of believing in POLITICIANS. Politicians are, in general, jerks. I base this off no real evidence, just a general public understanding of the system. When did we last have someone who could be considered an "intellectual" in office?

Today, believing in politics amounts to enjoying the results of yesterday's city council election in our small Florida city. Incumbents lost.

Did ya hear Bill O'rielly gave that JUdGE CONNORS what needed giving,now may be he will tell JUDGE EVANS ,he can not break the LAW either !! If O'rielly run's for OFFICE HE COULD GET ALOT FO VOTE'S, AT LEAST YOU KNOW HE WOULD STAND UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING . UNLIKE SOME WE KNOW

Perhaps Buddah, Christ, Jehovah, Mani and Mohammed were the best politicians because they have withstood the election to the hearts of men over the test of time.

To nelson - an aside on the conceptual ideas of rebirth, reincarnation, born again - all of a genus, specific to their religion, but generically akin. Each renews in its own way, according to its own structure and teachings. The underlying mystery remains. I generally choose Pascal's wager - and lose nothing if there is nothing. Each of the great teachers would probably recoil in horror at what followers have done to their teachings.

Weighing in really, really late on this (per Pixel - I have a hold on Ehrman's book at the library and there are about 40 people ahead of me), here's another just released book covering religion and the way us humans interpret it. It is by Garry Wills and is called "What Jesus Meant."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670034967/qid=1142475735/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/103-2404510-2397435?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

I believe in ME.Period.I'll start there and see what happens.

ALL POLITICANS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CROOKS AND CRIMINALS.
THEY ARE INTENT ONLY ON SKIMMING OFF MONEY FOR THEMSELVES, MAKING RESTRICTIVE LAWS FOR THE CITIZENS AND MAKING CERTAIN THAT THE LAWS DO NOT PERTAIN TO THEMSELVES.
THEY ARE INVOLVED IN MORE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND SCANDALS THAN THOSE WHO ARE AVERAGE CITIZENS.
IT IS OBVIOUS NOW THAT POLITICANS WANT COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE AND TO HELL WITH ANY CONSTITUIONAL GUARANTEES OF FREEDOM AND PRIVACY.

IT IS TIME TO HAVE A PEOPLES REVOLUTION AND TO PURGE THE COUNTRY OF POLITICANS, JUDGES AND THE POLICING AGENCIES (FBI, CIA, HOMELAND SECURITY, AND ALL OTHERS).
IT IS TIME FOR A REVOLUTION BY AMY MEANS NECESSARY TO TAKE BACK CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY FOR THE CITIZENS.
IT IS QUITE EVIDENT THAT ELECTIONS ARE A FRAUD AND THAT THERE IS NO REAL CHOICE OF POLITICAL PARTIES OR CANDIDATES IN VOTING.
THERE IS ALSO A MADMAN PRESIDENT WHO SEEMS TO BE ON A SUICIDAL MISSION.
AFTER HE ALIENATES ENOUGH COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THEY WILL EVENTUALLY BOND TOGETHER TO INVADE THE USA.
THE PRESIDENT WILL THEN BE ACCUSED OF WAR CRIMES AND ATTROCITIES.
IT WILL BE EVIDENT THAT WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT IRAQ, IRAN, KOREA, AFGANISTAN WHEN BUSH IS IN FRONT OF A TRIBUNAL ACCUSED OF WAR CRIMES AND ALL USA CITIZENS ARE UNDER FOREIGN OCCUPATION.