On the Bus

We had our Outlook meeting yesterday and it looks like I'm writing about busing (some people insist on spelling the word "bussing" -- but isn't that kissing??? I'm sure I'm right -- check AP style) circa 1970. Pegged to the Supreme Court's recent decision revisiting (gutting?) Brown v. Board of Education. I was bused across town for 5th and 6th grade as part of a court-ordered desegregation plan. There's a piece in there somewhere. If anyone remembers that era (particularly in the Deep South), please post a comment. Or just write the article for me. Thank you.

[The New Guy -- I might as well tell you his name -- Newman -- says, "Our readers know more than we do." Or something like that. Maybe that's someone else's line and he's endorsing it. In any case, he insists on me blogging about what we're doing in the upcoming Outlook section. The idea is, the Internet lets us be more collaborative and less, I don't know, hierarchical, and omniscient, and bossy. I agree in principle, but continue to worry that if we get any more collaborative, people will begin demanding payment, and a vacation plan and a 401k. The A-blog is Ground Zero in that future legal nightmare.]

At one point during the Outlook meeting, my editors suggested that I come up with some actual facts about busing and school desegregation.

"You might want to do some research," said my editor Zofia.

WHAT!!??? RESEARCH??? I was flabbergasted.

The impertinence.

It's like they don't know who they're dealing with.

There was also discussion about other Outlook stories coming up this weekend. Something about the Mideast. Something about Intelligence Reform. Or maybe the Mideast story and the Intelligence Reform story are the same story.

I am pretty sure stories about the Mideast spontaneously generate in the Outlook office. There are ancient Mideast-punditry spores in the carpeting.

Also we have stories arriving from local think tanks via pneumatic tubes that date to the 1950s. At the mouth of each tube is a label: Brookings, CSIS, AEI, Heritage. I find the whooshing sound to be highly distracting.

Also there might be a story this weekend on politics and sex. Hear hear!! (Or do I mean Here Here?) (Don't answer that.)

--


I love the ending of Gene Robinson's column today, in which he offers one possible reason why the U.S. hasn't recently had a terror attack along the lines of what we've seen in the U.K.:

'...the United States, for all its faults, is still the most inclusive society on Earth. Our nation has a way of making outsiders into participants, a way of convincing people that they are protagonists, not just pawns. The United States can fall short of its promises, but it has a genius for manufacturing possibility. If people have even a glimpse of a better tomorrow, no matter how unbearable today might be, they are less likely to pack a car with explosives and crash it into an airport.

'There's hope for us yet. Have a happy Fourth of July.'

--

Philosophy's Trolley Problem: Why it's not a good idea to shove someone in front of a speeding trolley even though you might in the process save the lives of 5 other people. Explained, finally.

By  |  July 3, 2007; 7:56 AM ET
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"Hello Newman"

Posted by: greenwithenvy | July 3, 2007 9:50 AM

First? I do have a busing story.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 9:52 AM

Not first. No time for details, but let me say this-when Frostsister rolled up to her new school in Petersburg, VA I knew the true meaning of Dickensian. The formerly "colored" school would have been found wanting even to his evil custodians of orphans. Oliver didn't know how good he had it.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 9:56 AM

Off topic, or perhaps on topic somewhere in the world. I just read a lovely piece on Beverly Sills in the NY Times -- went on for four pages (online). Very nicely done. I always loved Beverly Sills -- both her profound musical gifts and her tenacity. Huge loss to us all, but it was great to have had her in our lives.

Gotta go.

Posted by: firsttimeblogger | July 3, 2007 10:01 AM

One more before I go- my busing experience was in the Petersburg era of Moses Malone. I firmly believe he single handedly kept the lid on a very volatile situation.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 10:01 AM

No, greenwith -- it goes more like this:

"Hello . . . NEWman."

But is the New Guy's name *really* Newman? (New Man? New Guy? Get it?) Reminds me of that library investigations officer called Bookman who came to Jerry Seinfeld's apartment to track down an unreturned copy of "Tropic of Cancer" (or was that "Tropic of Capricorn"?)

Posted by: Tom fan | July 3, 2007 10:01 AM

BOOKMAN: You took this book out in 1971.

JERRY: Yes, and I returned it in 1971.

BOOKMAN: Yeah, '71. That was my first year on the job. Bad year for libraries. Bad year for America. Hippies burning library cards, Abby Hoffman telling everybody to steal books. I don't judge a man by the length of his hair or the kind of music he listens to. Rock was never my bag. But you put on a pair of shoes when you walk into the New York Public Library, fella.

JERRY: Look, Mr. Bookman. I--I returned that book. I remember it very specifically.

BOOKMAN: You're a comedian, you make people laugh.

JERRY: I try.

BOOKMAN: You think this is all a big joke, don't you?

JERRY: No, I don't.

BOOKMAN: I saw you on T.V. once; I remembered your name--from my list. I looked it up. Sure enough, it checked out. You think because you're a celebrity that somehow the law doesn't apply to you, that you're above the law?

JERRY: Certainly not.

BOOKMAN: Well, let me tell you something, funny boy. Y'know that little stamp, the one that says "New York Public Library"? Well that may not mean anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole hell of a lot. Sure, go ahead, laugh if you want to. I've seen your type before: Flashy, making the scene, flaunting convention. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. What's this guy making such a big stink about old library books? Well, let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without libraries, people like you and me. Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change the world, but what about that kid, sitting down, opening a book, right now, in a branch at the local library and finding drawings of pee-pees and wee-wees on the Cat in the Hat and the Five Chinese Brothers? Doesn't HE deserve better? Look. If you think this is about overdue fines and missing books, you'd better think again. This is about that kid's right to read a book without getting his mind warped! Or maybe that turns you on, Seinfeld; maybe that's how y'get your kicks. You and your good-time buddies. Well I got a flash for ya, joy-boy: Party time is over. Y'got seven days, Seinfeld. That is one week!

Posted by: Tom fan | July 3, 2007 10:09 AM

Yeah Tom I got it. I was just looking for posting first, so often I post last or late at night. Nice to be FIRST for a change. Now I can die a happy man.

On a side note, I watched Jurassic Park the other night and I was Happy when "Newman" got eaten.

Posted by: greenwithenvy | July 3, 2007 10:12 AM

[I think Bookman should have said "flouting convention," not "flaunting."]

Posted by: Tom fan | July 3, 2007 10:13 AM

"Chinese Lessons" with John Pomfret, anyone?

Posted by: Loomis | July 3, 2007 10:13 AM

I don't have a busing story per se, but I do have a fair number of memories somewhat related to the overall theme. I am 59 years old. I remember as a little boy going to the polls with my grandad in rural East Texas and watching the trucks roll in from the fields in a ritual referred to as "voting the n-----s." The farmer gave each man a half dollar to pay the poll tax and a pink paper ballot so that he could vote the straight Democratic ticket by checking a single box. Then they all piled back in the truck and went back to picking cotton or blackberries. I remember "whites only" drinking fountains. I lived in Little Rock in 1957 and remember the ugliness of that time, with National Guardsmen and federal law enforcement officers facing off with screaming crowds of local whites at Central High. I remember the uproar at our church in Ft. Worth in 1962 when the minister invited a black seminary student to speak to our youth group about the Civil Rights movement-a few families left and never came back. I remember the assasinations and the riots. I guess most of all I remember a time when we looked to the Supreme Court as a place where justice, true justice- not legalities but telling right from wrong- could be hoped for.

Posted by: kurosawaguy | July 3, 2007 10:17 AM

Newman? Newman from Seinfeld? Oh, man, are you guys in trouble!

Posted by: crc | July 3, 2007 10:19 AM

I was bussed across the St. John's River to R.L. Brown. The bus ride was usually fun.

Posted by: Peg | July 3, 2007 10:43 AM

"I guess most of all I remember a time when we looked to the Supreme Court as a place where justice, true justice- not legalities but telling right from wrong- could be hoped for."

Ah, so true. And it will be again. I have to believe that.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 10:55 AM

"WHAT!!??? RESEARCH??? I was flabbergasted."

What's up boss? Didn't expect anyone to try and get you to do real work didja?

Just remember as you walk your beat talkin to regular folk, one thing. Just the Facts man, Just the facts.(sometimes the best fiction is fact)

Posted by: Kerric | July 3, 2007 11:08 AM

Can't really argue with this list:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/badcartoons?GT1=7707

I couldn't even stomach "Captain Planet" the first time around.

Posted by: Scottynuke | July 3, 2007 11:18 AM

Our local columnist today:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/salife/stories/MYSA070307.1P.clack.215d3da.html

Biden's (sen. Joe, Demo) message of responsibility and making smart decisions is itself responsible and smart. But it's the way he articulates his answers that often cause observers to scratch their heads.

"Black sections of town"? Do people still refer to their cities and towns in this way? Even if the answer is yes, Biden lives in Wilmington, Del., where according to the 2000 Census, the black population is 56.4 percent. Black isn't just a section of Wilmington; it's getting to the point that it will be all of Wilmington. It would be like someone saying that they spent last summer going through the Mexican American sections of San Antonio.

Posted by: Loomis | July 3, 2007 11:25 AM

If Newman insists you blog on Outlook, Joel, clearly you must humor him. Perhaps you can incorporate some sort of Outlook reference into a broader-based section of Kits. Global Warming, Science Days, mind-numbing trivia and blather all have their essential place and must not be sacrificed. If Newman really believes that the readers (the Boodle) know more than he does, then he will listen as we insist the Kit format not be changed out of all recognition, and you continue to have more or less free rein.

Posted by: Ivansmom | July 3, 2007 11:35 AM

I was a high school junior when the ruling in Swann vs. Charlotte-Mecklenburg forced busing for desegregation. It was a tough, tough time. While there was plenty of discontent, the biggest problem was the logistical nightmare of moving kids and stuff around to different schools. My older brother was an elementary school principal; he told me recently that he received death threats when he was moved to a new school that year.

I attended a high school out of district because the school I should have gone to didn't offer the advanced classes I wanted. As a result, I had to apply for a transfer back to the school I had attended for two years. I was out with friends when the notification came in the mail; my mother opened it, an unusual act for her. When I got home, she met me at the door beaming with the news that it had been approved. We all jumped up and down screaming with joy. My transfer was one of only 125 granted, because the high school whose district I lived in didn't offer AP Spanish.

My senior year was a complete waste, academically, for all of us. (We managed to survive and thrive in spite of it!) At graduation, a great deal was made of the fact that my high school was the only one in the county that was not closed at one time or another for rioting. That was a tribute to the principal as much as it was to the kids.

As difficult as it was, I believe that busing set the whole community down the road to accept and celebrate diversity. Most of us opposed the lawsuit which overturned Swann and returned the system to local schools. While there is still much improvement to be made, Swann forced this community to come together and face the future in a more equitable and inclusive way. It was the right decision in its time. I hope the decision which overturned it will be right too, but I'm not nearly as optimistic about it.

Posted by: Slyness | July 3, 2007 11:37 AM

Why, lookey that! I just happen to have an AP Style Book right here. And it sayeth:

"bus, buses Transportation vehicles. The Verb form: bus, bused, busing. See buss, busses." [I woulda said "busing" was also a gerund noun, but heck, close enuf fer gummint werk.]

So I saw buss, busses, and it sayeth: "Kisses. The verb forms: buss, bussed, bussing. See bus, buses." Of course a lot of it was in ITALIC, WHICH WE STILLLLLL DON'T HAVE ANY OF, JOEL, SO I WAS UNABLE TO SHOW YOU WHICH WORDS WERE ACTUALLY *IN* ITALIC. BUT SOME OF THEM WERE, AND SOME WEREN'T.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 11:42 AM

Missed the ScUmbrage from yesterday (that would be short for "Scooter Umbrage"), though I did get to talk to a friend about it.

We landed on the ideas (that had been mentioned in here, BTW) that he's now a convicted felon and therefore disbarred, that he won't be able to get another job in gov't, and that he'll make a living as a consultant, commentator, and doing speaking engagements. He'll be fine, with a little help from his friends.

On to the bussing, er busing question: I grew up in a very ethnically mixed lower-middle-class neighborhood, with some subsidized housing; there was no more talk about busing than there was about the fact that there was nitrogen in the air. We knew it existed, but there was no need to think about it since it played no part in our daily lives.

We were already there together, where were they going to buss, er, bus *us*?

bc

Posted by: bc | July 3, 2007 11:42 AM

This comment from Peter Baker's politics chat (elsewhere on this site) reads suspiciously like something one of youse guys would say:

"I am quite amused by the chin-stroking speculation expressed in the article by Abramowitz regarding whether the Angler had any influence on the commutation. Perhaps the next issue to investigate is the extent to which the statements of Charlie McCarthy were influenced by his close relationship with Edgar Bergen."

Posted by: byoolin | July 3, 2007 11:45 AM

I didn't write it, byoolin--but wish I had.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 11:49 AM

I just finished two hours of editing my most-boring monthly project. So please forgive me if I exclaim that Mudge's line is one of the funniest I've read lately...

"I WAS UNABLE TO SHOW YOU WHICH WORDS WERE ACTUALLY *IN* ITALIC. BUT SOME OF THEM WERE, AND SOME WEREN'T."

Some weren't. Indeed.

Posted by: TBG | July 3, 2007 11:55 AM

Incidentally, four of the words were boldfaced. True.

I just noted that whoever wrote the Charlie McCarthy line was from Lansdale, Pa., which is about three miles up the road from where I lived from 1952 to 1978, more or less. Perhaps there's something in the well water besides the high mineral content. (Little Peggie March grew up there, too, in Lansdale, BTW.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 12:02 PM

"Have Mercy, been waiting for the bus all day"

Posted by: greenwithenvy | July 3, 2007 12:04 PM

JA will surely check out the PG situation as it is emblematic of many issues of race and classes nested within what looks like school desegregation by busing.

I can report no busing experiences as I grew up in the rural West; I just now realized that I only rode a school bus for sports, my last year of high school.

In PG, where my children have been, one interesting aspect of magnets often missed is that they can emerge as schools-within-schools. On the books, the numbers look diverse; in reality the school houses a special program, with many white students enrolled, while the "old" school remains primariy black.

(As the population of PG shifted to majority black in the mid 90s, imagine the chaos of trying to move around white children/black children to achieve segregation targets: simply not possible.)

I recall one neighbor who figured-out early that her child would not be eligible for a Montessori program because her family is black. The lottery for our widely-regarded magnets accepted races other than black, to create a pool of children. Of this pool, lottery "winners" could register at the program of choice. In other words, many black children were excluded from changes at special programs in language, arts, or special curriculums like TAG and Montessori.

Eventually, attempts were made to include black children into the magnet mix, but the huge change in demographics overwhelmed such efforts. Our return to neighborhood schools took place a few years ago. The undoing of our court order was analyzed in the Post. I am not sure how the current decision effects us, if at all. We were excited -- briefly -- about full funding under the Thorton plan, but alas....schools, especially in poorer communities, still stand on the corner. hat in hand, beginning for the basics.

Posted by: College Parkian | July 3, 2007 12:07 PM

mudge, do you recall a restaurant, not far from Willow Grove called Lavendar Hall and if so, is it still there?

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 12:16 PM

I take minor exception to that list s'nuke. It's not that anything on that list is particularily good, but that a couple of them (eg. Transformers) were the good kind of bad. I will also admit to fully enjoying the lack of reason behind Pokemon, but don't spread it around.

Unlike say American Dad (somewhat newer cartoon, same producers as Family Guy), which is just ten levels of awful, and I cannot believe did not make that list.

Posted by: cartoonKerric | July 3, 2007 12:19 PM

Like KGUY, my early education predates busing. I grew up and attended elementary and secondary schools in a then little known Florida farming community in the 40s and 50s: Fort Lauderdale. (In the 60s the town went through a major transformation and its history as an agricultural community is largely forgotten.) I did attended school with Seminole Indians who wore their traditional colorful dress and lived in chickees. I was aware of the predominant black schools, Attucks in Hollywood and Dillard in Lauderdale, but did not encounter any racial disturbances or prejudices. South Florida is not in the traditional "deep south." I learned after moving to the Florida panhandle, traveling north to the deep south, in the late 60s that I was considered a "South Florida Yankee." Joel will find it interesting that Gainesville was referred to as "North Florida" when I lived in Lauderdale, but when I relocated to Destin, Gainesville was referred to as "South Florida." My late wife taught at a HS in Okaloosa County when busing was mandated, but there were few problems, probably because of the more cosmopolitan attitudes of a military base community.

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 12:21 PM

No, CB, never heard of it. Do you remember the approximate address? York Road? Easton Road? Welsh Road (I lived on Welsh Road, 8 miles from WG, 2 blocks from Rt. 309 and the 309- Drive-In.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 12:23 PM

Give it time, Kerric, and I'm sure "American Dad" will make the list eventually.

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | July 3, 2007 12:26 PM

No, I really never knew the address, I just remember it had a tree growing inside the place, this would have been 1956 and I was a Navy brat so we were only there a short time.

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 12:29 PM

Re Mideast-punditry spores in the carpeting, we should consider ourselves lucky that it's punditry brewing there, than what brews in the "carpeting"--the soil itself--of the Mideast.

Check out this graphic portrayal of that that blood-soaked region.

Posted by: THS | July 3, 2007 12:36 PM

Here's that graphic portrayal.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

So much for my HTML skills.

Posted by: THS | July 3, 2007 12:40 PM

CB, might you mean Newtown PA. There's a Lavender Hall on Rt 532 (AKA Washington Crossing Rd. About 13 mile away from Willow Grove.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 12:42 PM

>"Have Mercy, been waiting for the bus all day"

Now THAT's a great tune cootie, green! Of course it means I have to hit Amazon for some ZZ Top albums missing from the iPod.

I went to a mixed jr high and high school in the 70s. Trenton had some very bad riots in the past and there was a little of that still hanging about, but for the most part things were cool. I remember going out at lunch (a split French class) with a guy named Lonnie (about 6'8" and yes, on the football team) to drink Colt .45 and visit his girlfriend in what was a predominiantly black area. (Lonnie would make barely-audible obscene remarks at our French teacher which amused the rest of us greatly. I think he was about 22 in 12th grade.)

Housing was pretty much one way or the other though, and while you might be friends at school we didn't really hang out all that much afterwards. The other high school was in an area that was 99% white, and I knew some of those guys because I worked with them. They were noticeably racist. I found that really weird. I'm like, um you don't know any black people. Why the attitude?

I'm not sure busing would've made that place any more tolerant, or just fueled riots.

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 12:43 PM

CB, was your dad stationed at Willow Grove NAS? In 1956 I was in 4th grade, and right about then a B-17 (IIRC) landing at WGNAS overshot the runway, skidded to the end of the station, went through a chain link fence, crossed the road, and the nose ended up in the living room of a house. A classmate of mine, Bobby Warren, lived in the house next door, and they heard it coming, and hide behind the sofas and chairs. The engines on the wings stopped just at the edge of their front porch.

Circa 1956, the only restaurants in WG would have been Luigi's across from WG Park (the amusement park that was the background location of James Michener's novel "The Fires of Spring"), and the Horn & Hardart's on the corner of Easton and Welch Roads. There was a better restaurant up on York, I think, but don't remember the name.

What school did you go to? One of the elementarys in the Upper Moreland Dsitrict, probably?

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 12:44 PM

"three miles up the road from where I lived from 1952 to 1978, more or less." Was it the location or the living that was "more or less"?

Posted by: kurosawaguy | July 3, 2007 12:45 PM

Kerric, Scottynuke, no bad cartoon list is complete without these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astro_Boy

http://www.toontracker.com/hercules/hercules.htm

And where does Davey And Goliath fit, because darn, it should fit.

http://www.awn.com/heaven_and_hell/DG/DG1.htm


Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 12:47 PM

Yes,Omni that must be it. Where did you find it? Thanks

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 12:47 PM

Reuters at the NYT:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Tuesday he did not rule out a full pardon for Lewis "Scooter" Libby, a day after he spared the former White House aide prison time for his perjury conviction in the CIA leak case.

Asked whether he would rule out a full pardon for Libby, Bush replied: "As to the future I rule nothing in and nothing out."

Posted by: Loomis | July 3, 2007 12:54 PM

Mudge, don't mean to be unkind so close to your birthday but I was not yet in school, yes, a close friend of my parents was killed in a crash, his son carpooled with me to kindergarten, very sad. My folks are still in touch with his widow and one of her grandsons went to the academy like his grandfather he never knew.

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 12:56 PM

It's inside the Y of Washington Crossing Rd & Eldridge Rd near the top in the middle. after following the link click on aerial view and see if strikes any memory bells.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&country=US&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&addtohistory=&cat=&address=Washington+Crossing+Rd+and+eldridge+rd&city=newtown&state=pa&zipcode=

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 12:58 PM

Maps of war is a great graphic, THS, thanks. Much of Toynbee's history of failed civilizations unfolded in less than 10 seconds per millenium.

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 12:59 PM

Here's a review of that restaurant, CB, from http://www.igougo.com/travelcontent/JournalEntryDining.aspx?BusinessCardID=148871

Rt. 532 (Washington Crossing Rd.) Newtown, PA
New Hope (Pennsylvania) , 18940
215-860-7888

The first time I heard of Lavendar Hall was when my husband called me from there saying he was out to dinner with fellow workers. I was immediately suspect as to the evening's offerings when the place had such a provocative name. Not long after I got reassurance that it truly was a restaurant, and a fine one at that, we moved to the area where it is located. When I first laid eyes on it, I had no doubt at all about the origins for the name of this place. It sits on an isolated stretch of country road, paved and 2 lanes, about 1-2 miles northeast of Newtown, PA on the Washington Crossing Road, Rt. 532. It is a monstrously large stone house, very typical of the large stone houses throughout Bucks County, and it was totally painted, top to bottom a bright lavendar. I actually thought it a bit garrish and couldn't understand why anyone in their right mind would deface such a beautiful historic building so.
With friends in town, we sampled the lunch fare on a dreary late fall day. As "interesting" as the outside was, the inside was very warm inviting, and charming. It's decorated in a typical colonial style and the front room has a huge walk-in fireplace that contained a roaring fire. We were escorted to the lower level, down 3 or 4 steps into the large dining room. We were seated by the large picture windows that looked out over the gardens. Being late fall and not yet any snow did not give much of a view of the barren vegetation. I could only imagine in spring and summer that it was quite beautiful.
The menu had a somewhat limited selection of soups, sandwiches, and entrees with many hearty colonial type items, such as stews, pot pies, etc. to choose from. Our food was well prepared, but did not leave a lasting impress on either of us. Their dinner menu looked more creative with prime rib and Yorkshire pudding and seafood selections. I was determined to return for the evening go around in the spring, but alas, moving plans came before we were able to return.

-------------

Sounds to me like it's halfway between Newtown and on the way to Wash Crossing and New Hope, in the heart of Bucks County (a beautiful area up that way)--Michener Country, Pearl Buck Country, Rodgers and Hammerstein Country, etc. Big artists' colony, 200-year-old stone houses to die for. Spent some of my rookie years as a reporter covering Bucks County when I wasn't in Philly or Allentown. I was the Bucks County reporter for both the Philly Inquirer or the Allentown Morning Call at one time or another. Worked at the Doylestown Intelligencer, too, in the summer of 1968, when the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia, and I had to write headlines about Dubcek, and was grateful his name was so short.


Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 1:00 PM

Stonehouse Bistro & Catering
(215) 860-7888


552 Washington Crossing Rd
Newtown, PA 18940

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 1:01 PM

I'd say about a little more than 1/3 the distance from Newtown to Washington Crossing PA.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 1:05 PM

You know, things like the bussing issue reminds me that visiting here is a foreign land in more ways than one.

I grew up in small town Saskatchewan, and everyone rode the bus. There were 2 ethnicities. There were people of German heritage, and there were people of Ukranian heritage. The real outsiders were the kids from the Radar base outside of town. Beyond a shadow of a doubt we were sheltered from many things that happened in the rest of the world. Everytown had similiar schools, everytown had similiar programs. Or so I always thought.

I have to wonder if the schools closer to the First Nations lands (Reserves) were really the same. I wonder if they had the same levels of funding, the same levels of access to programs. I really hope so.

Sadly, though I wonder about facilities and programs, I have never had to wonder about discrimination. That was all around and for a thousand different 'reasons'.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 1:07 PM

Thanks omni, all I remember is it looked like it was once a large home and they must have expanded and just enclosed a tree that was there. Actually, I was only 4 then and in nursery school. How did you find it?

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 1:08 PM

Never been to Lavender Hall but The Brick Hotel in Newtown is quite nice. Also the Washington Crossing restaurant on the PA side of the bridge right at the park. On the NJ side over the bridge is a more casual little place on the canal called Faherty's.

River road going from Wash. Crossing to New Hope is practically littered with sweet little restaurants.

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 1:10 PM

omni, how do you know that territory?

That's a good map. If you click on the 7th button down in the zoom scale, you can see right where I lived. There's a little town called Prospectville on the map; that's where I went to elementary school. Right east of it is a greenish splotch; that's Willow Grove NAS.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 1:10 PM

Thanks, mudge, no mention of the tree, must be long gone by now but how neat it is still a restaurant.

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 1:13 PM

Mom leave Astroboy out of this! That was a great show, and if I had the money for it I would buy the full DVD box set. ;)

Like all best/worst of conversations this could go on forever.

Also dr I am wondering if you still wanted printer advice for the office? email me.

Posted by: Kerric | July 3, 2007 1:18 PM

Oh, man, you guys are making me homesick. I moved away 30 years ago, but I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could.

If you'd asked me 20 or 30 years ago, I'd probably have said I wouldn't miss it much, but I do: the terrain, the old architecture, the barns and fields, the color of the trees in autumn, the rolling hills. Whenever I see a house or a barn made of Pennsylvania field stone I always get excited and point it out to my wife, and she gets this "yeah, yeah, heard this a thousand times" expression on her face. Who'd a thunk I'd get all dopey over a specific kind of rock?

Yes, those are good places, Error. I used to love to drive my little MGB up River Road all the way up to Upper Black Eddy and back down to New Hope along the Delaware River (and Delaware River Canal, which closely resembles Joel's beloved C&O Canal).

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 1:20 PM

Hi DR -- little story on some indian families from Sask. A few tribal bands, in this case Kootenai, did not sign treaties with either the US or Canada. My order, Religious of Jesus and Mary, enjoyed a long association with these families. Apparently, "landless" as they were, they were not eligible for either public schools in Canada or the US. So, for the better part of 40 years, about two generations in about twelve families came to school in my parish: St. Gerard's in GF, MT. The motherhouse for this French order was in Regina. The children lived with the nuns in the convent for school, returning to Regina every summer to be with their families. At least two boys in my grade typically wore long braids. One Murphy boy used to make fun of those braids, until his older brother found out. Older Murphy was back from Vietnam and served with several tribal soldiers. I believe that Older Murply took Young Murphy behind the woodshed.

The military service tradition in tribal people is very strong in the US -- little known, though.

--
These children were largely accepted by us....they lived in the halo of the nuns and that was the time of pay, pray, and obey in Catholic culture. I don't think they would have fared as well in other neighborhoods.

Posted by: College Parkian | July 3, 2007 1:21 PM

Yes Kerric (scurries off like a good little mother to do as he bids. This is so not like me)

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 1:21 PM

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 1:27 PM

Mudge... no doubt, Pennsylvania rocks rock.

I grew up in the billy-filled hills about 60 miles north of Pittsburgh and remember climbing rocks that were measured in stories (and had some interesting ones attached to them, as well).

You'd be walking through the woods (or wading a "crick") and would suddenly find yourself facing one of those monstrosities. I'm reminded of the monoliths in 2001. It's like God had some extra chunks of mountain He didn't know what to do with, and just plunked them down in the middle of nowhere.

Posted by: martooni | July 3, 2007 1:34 PM

I'm all knowing Mudge.

Actually, I lived in Newtown just across from Tyler State Park (south of it) from 13-26 yeaars old. Never went to the restaurant, but must have driven past a thousand times between the ages of 19-21 to get beer in Jersey.

While most of my friends would spend as much of their free summer time as posible at Wildwood Beach, you'd always find me driving North to places like Slatington swimming in an abandoned slate quarry; banging on rocks at Ringing Rocks (Upper Black Eddy ring a bell); camping and fishing at the Delaware Water Gap; camping at Bake Ovens Nob on the Appalachian Trail...

I'm feeling a little ill too Mudge.

Posted by: omniscient | July 3, 2007 1:34 PM

Aw, Mudge...Did you have to, I'm getting all misty eyed here.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 1:38 PM

I might have to actually rent a car this fall for a camping trip north.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 1:39 PM

Mudge, those pics are awesome. I'm going to have to dig up my covered bridge pictures.

omni, we used to go mountain biking through Tyler State Park. Very nice. Not sure if that's still allowed, at least in the places we went. My friends were pretty serious, I just hung on and hoped to come back with all my limbs intact.

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 1:43 PM

Martooni-Have you every been to Jake's Rock in the Kinzua Dam area? Just as you describe and very exciting climbs for kids who were oh so tired of yet another unairconditioned car trip circa 1972.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 1:53 PM

Thanks, Omni and everyone, for the Rocky and Bullwinkle stuff. I was aware of the show, but I never watched it. I was "too intellectual" and snooty to boot. I now am sorry to have missed it.

Have you seen David Brooks nasty little column today?
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/07/03/opinion/03brooks.html?_r=1&hp&oref=login
President Bush's decision in the case of I. Lewis Libby Jr. was exactly right, he says.

Let me know if you can't get it, and I'll paste it in.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | July 3, 2007 1:59 PM

Mudge, Those picture are spectacular. They bring back memories of tromping through the state forest lands throughout PA when I was at Penn State.

Posted by: lurkgineer | July 3, 2007 2:05 PM

SCC - pictures

Posted by: lurkgineer | July 3, 2007 2:06 PM

Maggie... can't read it. Cut 'n paste would be most welcome, if I may whisper so's the NYT folks can't hear.

And my mom thought Rocky & Bullwinkle was more for adults than kids. She laughed at all sorts of references I never understood as a kid.

This is for you, though (it's not Rocky & Bullwinkle)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfmdIg84y9E

Posted by: TBG | July 3, 2007 2:08 PM

I don't think it was allowed when I was there. If I remember correctly you weren't even allowed to off road on the horse trails. I remember riding my bike all over the place in that park. A few miles up Neshaminy there was a covered bridge that I would ride to all the time. It was burned down in 1991. After five years of fundraising and planning the Schofield Ford Covered Bridge was rebuilt using authentic materials and methods on the original stone abutments and center pier. At 166 ft it is the longest covered bridge in Bucks County.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SchofieldFordCoveredBridge.jpg

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&country=US&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&addtohistory=&cat=&address=twining+bridge+rd+and+swamp+rd&city=newtown&state=pa&zipcode=

If you click just past the bend north of the island and switch to ariel view you can see it from above.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 2:10 PM

SCC:Aerial view

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 2:12 PM

Here it is TBG:


July 3, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist
Ending the Farce
By DAVID BROOKS

In retrospect, Plamegate was a farce in five acts. The first four were scabrous, disgraceful and absurd. Justice only reared its head at the end.

The drama opened, as these dark comedies are wont to do, with a strutting little peacock who went by the unimaginative name of Joe Wilson.

Mr. Wilson claimed that his wife had nothing to do with his trip to investigate Iraqi purchases in Niger, though that seems not to have been the case. He claimed his trip proved Iraq had made no such attempts, though his own report said nothing of the kind.

In short order, Wilson established himself as the charming P.T. Barnum of the National Security set, an inveterate huckster who could be counted on to wrap every actual fact in six layers of embellishment. His small part in the larger fiasco of the Iraq war would not have registered a micron of attention had the villain of the epic -- the vice president -- not exercised his unfailing talent for vindictive self-destruction.

Act Two opened with a cast of thousands crowding the stage, filling the air with fevered vapors and gleeful rage. Perhaps you can remember those days, when the Plame story pretended to be about the outing of an undercover C.I.A. agent. Perhaps you can remember the howls of outrage from our liberal friends, about the threat to national security, the secret White House plot to discredit its enemies.

Perhaps you remember the media stakeouts of Karl Rove's driveway, the constant perp-walk photos of Rove on his way to and from the grand jury, the delirious calls from producers (The indictment is coming today! The indictment is coming today!).

There were media types so eager to get Rove, so artificially appalled at the thought of somebody actually leaking classified information, they were willing to forgive prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald for throwing journalists in jail. It was like watching a city of Ahabs getting deliriously close to the great white whale.

That was back when everybody thought Rove was the key leaker. But then it turned out he wasn't. Richard Armitage was, as Fitzgerald knew from the start.

By the start of Act Three, nobody cared about the outing of a C.I.A. agent. That part of the scandal disappeared. And all that was left of Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame were the creepy photos in Vanity Fair.

Act Three was the perjury act, and attention shifted to the unlikely figure of Scooter Libby. As Joe Wilson was an absurd man with a plain name, Scooter Libby was a plain man with an absurd name. And the odder thing was that Libby was the only normal person in the asylum. People who knew him thought him discreet, honest and admirable. And yet the charges were brought and the storm clouds of idiocy gathered once more.

Republicans who'd worked themselves up into a spittle-spewing rage because Bill Clinton lied under oath were appalled that anybody would bother with poor Libby over lying under oath. Democrats who were outraged that Bill Clinton was hounded for something as trivial as perjury were furious that Scooter Libby might not be ruined for a crime as heinous as perjury. It was an orgy of shamelessness. The God of Self-Respect took sabbatical.

The trial and sentencing, Act Four, was, to be honest, somewhat anticlimactic. Fitzgerald, having lost all perspective, demanded Libby get a harsh sentence as punishment for crimes he had not been convicted of. The judge, casting himself as David against Goliath, demonstrated an impressive capacity for talking about himself.

And finally, yesterday, came Act Five, and a paradox. Scooter Libby emerged as the least absurd character in the entire drama, and yet he was the one who committed a crime. President Bush entered the stage like a character from another world, a world in which things make sense.

His decision to commute Libby's sentence but not erase his conviction was exactly right. It punishes him for his perjury, but not for the phantasmagorical political farce that grew to surround him. It takes away his career, but not his family.

Of course, the howlers howl. That is their assigned posture in this drama. They entered howling, they will leave howling and the only thing you can count on is their anger has been cynically manufactured from start to finish.

The farce is over. It has no significance. Nobody but Libby's family will remember it in a few weeks time. Everyone else will have moved on to other fiascos, other poses, fresher manias.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | July 3, 2007 2:19 PM

Oh gosh, Maggie. I'm sorry I asked. What a scabrous, phantasmagorical piece of drivel.

Except for this line...

"President Bush entered the stage like a character from another world, a world in which things make sense."

Posted by: TBG | July 3, 2007 2:30 PM

"Perhaps you can remember those days, when the Plame story pretended to be about the outing of an undercover C.I.A. agent."

For those of us who know people whose work involves life or death situations, where the keeping of secrets tips the scale toward life, this is a big problem. Pundits of all persuasion have acted as if Plame's outing was no big deal, even questioning if she was really that much of a covert agent and quibbling over just how sensitive her work was and the potential for danger to those she worked with. By trivializing Plame's outing this was turned into yet another "not the crime, but the cover up" kind of story. We want to scream, "but there was a crime!"

I am no particular fan of official secrecy or covert action. However, when it is necessary it is necessary and the decision to release sensitive information ought not to be driven by the relative vindictiveness of the VP or white house staffers. In a way I feel for Scooter. Other, more reprehensible heads should have rolled over this. I only hope the next time some career military person with an otherwise stellar record loses some classified material through sheer stupidity that he/she is handled as gently as those who would deliberately leak while motivated by hubris.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 2:44 PM

Fyi, I added a link to a philosophy blog and something called the Trolley Problem -- see the bottom of the kit.

Posted by: Achenbach | July 3, 2007 2:49 PM

I think that line should read "President Bush entered the stage like a character from another world, a world in which things make sense," BUT ONLY TO HIM. (Sorry, all caps in lieu of italics.)

Posted by: kurosawaguy | July 3, 2007 2:52 PM

Just to satisfy New man, I carpooled and have no information about busing in Willow Grove circa 1956.

Posted by: CB | July 3, 2007 2:56 PM

Oh, so busing is also a form of transportation?

Posted by: LTL-CA | July 3, 2007 3:02 PM

I thought it was clearing tables at restaurants...

*confused*

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | July 3, 2007 3:28 PM

All I can say is that Bush and Rove (and maybe Chaney too) have some balls to pull this off. I'm sure Scooter went down with the promise that they'd get him a pardon. Yeah, maybe his "career" took a hit but, truthfully, I doubt he's gonna suffer much with friends like that.

As for busing, none of that in my neck of the woods. Too many minorities, it would have been craziness to try and get the schools integrated with proper representation for all ethnic groups. Besides, the Whites (and later some Asians) with money went to private school and self-segregated anyway.

Posted by: Aloha | July 3, 2007 3:29 PM

The only busing I know anything about has to do with restaurant tables, not that I've ever personally done it, just that I have seen it done.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 3:35 PM

"President Bush entered the stage like a character from another world, a world in which things make sense."

My thought on this line of mockery, kurosawaguy, TBG, was just how low have we fallen when GWB is seen as coming from a world that makes sense...?

Posted by: Kerric | July 3, 2007 3:36 PM

dang, I hit refresh at least a half a dozen times over the past five minutes, and it's not until after I post that Scottynuke's post appears. Felgercarb. I'm going home.

Posted by: omni | July 3, 2007 3:38 PM

Yesterday, kurosawaguy mentioned that Kubrick directed Spartacus, which I hadn't realized. So, last night, I got out the DVD which I had not yet watched, and got started. The Spouse and I expect to finish tonight (it's a long movie). Pretty good. I am not getting many of the visual cues that I associate with other Kubrick movies that I have seen.

Posted by: ScienceTim | July 3, 2007 3:43 PM

Happy 4th, omni. (Did you know that felgercarb is anagram of crebgerlaf? It's true.)

Posted by: | July 3, 2007 3:44 PM

Happy 4th, omni. (Did you know that felgercarb is anagram of crebgerlaf? It's true.)

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 3:44 PM

omni;

felgercarbs are the ones that don't lead to excess calories, right?

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | July 3, 2007 3:46 PM

Way back in 4th grade, my friend Kenny Kousen wrote his own lyrics for the Mighty Hercules theme song (are you out there, Kenny?):

Hercules: Made of cheese and baloney!
Hercules: Is a big fat phony!
Fighting for his life,
with a rubber knife,
with the strength of ten
little paper men!
He's ("my" or "a" or "no") hero: Hercules!!!
DA-da DA-da, da-DAAAAAAAA!

Posted by: StorytellerTim | July 3, 2007 3:47 PM

Busing, at least VA style, was an early '70s phenom. Living in Newport News and attending a parochial school (shout out to my peeps from OLMC!) for the latter half of the '60s I was pretty much sheltered from the de facto apartheid that still gripped VA. Whether or not the state would approve "liquor by the drink" was the raging debate in grown up circles. We were also sheltered from the white/black divide because of our military ties. Kids of all colors were our neighbors when we lived in quarters and the dads all worked together. There was at least the veneer of civility that saluting and other prescribed manners brings. My sister and I were always a bit miffed that our mother was decidedly uninteresting, providing us neither a German nor Thai grandmother to teach us a different language and cook exotic foods.

Then my dad returned form his second tour in Vietnam and we were moved 60 miles up the road to Ft. Lee and Petersburg VA and it was like being on another planet. White flight from the local schools was in full gear and there was a waiting list for both the parochial schools and the local "segregation academy." I attended 6th grade at AP Hill which had been a white elementary but was changed to house 6th and 7th graders from all over the city. My sister spent 5th grade at Virgnia Ave. school, formerly the lone black elementary school in the city and switched to serving 4th and 5th grade. Things were bad enough for me, with a year of learning absolutely lost and most days spent in fear of being beaten up or felt up. But at least the building was not crumbling and there was a grassy play area. Not that anyone really played at recess, it was more like the stereotypical dance of the cliques you see in the prison yard in made for TV movies. Virginia Ave. was worse. A tall brick structure with not a blade of grass or piece of play equipment on the "playground" it should long since have been replaced, but as of 2001-2002 was still in use and still not making it academically with "provisional accreditation/needs improvement" its designation by the state. (I think it has been replaced with a new elementary since '02, but that just means they can move the same ineffective staff and programs to a new building and start the AYP clock over...sorry, educator rant).

In the end I think court ordered busing was needed to crush the dual, and unequal, educational system. However, I think it hid the ugly truth that southern public education as a whole was pretty much broken. The white kids in Newport News whose dads came up from Carolina to work at the ship yard were no better served than the black kids. Race counts, but class counts more. Eventually we made our escape by attending a majority minority DOD school in Okinawa.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 3:50 PM

Joel, I like that trolley problem. I've never had trouble understanding what is the right thing to do but it's hard to explain it logically. It's easier to explain theologically: You don't pull the switch because You Are Not God. I also use the Big Picture argument, which can be expressed as "what if everybody went around acting like this, what kind of a world would it be"--and then you can see a little more clearly that it's not a good idea to always be using our human judgment to decide who lives and who dies. Also, the big picture argument speaks to the issue of individual lives versus the social order, or the good of the species or other larger considerations. Hard to justify logically, but in the end right is right, and it's nice to see a serious philosopher taking it up.

A while back my daughter met a philosophy student on the bus--she has an hour commute to and from work every day, so they had enough time to get into some serious discussions. The guy posed her a bunch of classical questions like the trolley problem. She told me, "I gave him *your* answers, Mom." Ha.

Posted by: kbertocci | July 3, 2007 3:50 PM

You've never seen Spartacus before, Tim? I had the hots for Jean Simmons for years after than movie. And the line, "I'm Spartacus!" has no meaning for you yet. Just wait, buddy.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 3:51 PM

Hmmm. I think the answer is "yes, Kenny is out there," and he's got a pretty large Google footprint.

Posted by: StorytellerTim | July 3, 2007 3:51 PM

I see word of Bush commuting Libby's sentance has reached the Berlin Zoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070627/photos_us_rank_afp/e880f5c715bfef173813efe554dbacf3;_ylt=AoVWsRX0A8BgwlhljI6ZnphpaP0E

:-)

Posted by: Scottynuke | July 3, 2007 3:54 PM

Kerric, he invented it.

CP, that would be the good thing about being educated by nuns. One way. No if ands or buts.
One of the most delightful things in life is watching the re- awakening of the native culture. Maybe re-awakening is the wrong word, maybe its just that they are talking about it more. Maybe its just more available and in my face. Its wonderful to see shows on the history of ALL the people of this country. Last evening there was an excellent program on Access about Tom Longboat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Longboat

A people, a nation needs to know the stories of those who went before.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 4:21 PM

looks like the giviment works got off at 4:00.

Posted by: bh | July 3, 2007 4:22 PM

I grew up in the deep south in the 60's. We were poor and white and lived in an integrated neighborhood. Not by some law or ordinance---just economics. I didn't know the rest of the world was segregated and angry. I was a little white girl with a best friend named Ida Mae. I didn't think about my skin or her skin. We were princesses. She liked my freckles and I liked her braided hair. We were six. We held hands and sat on the swings every day. Until this big bad grown up word separated us. She had to get bused to another school because she was black. I hated the word integration. It was one of the first big grown up words I learned. I heard about it on our black and white television over and over again. I didn't understand. Integration took my best friend away. Integration segregated us. I couldn't comprehend the civil rights movement. All I knew is the swing next to me was empty.
Well, there's a perspective I suppose people don't hear about so much. To this day I am the freckled little grown up called to create acceptance and diversity in every thing I do. I'll never forget Ida.

Posted by: southern girl | July 3, 2007 4:24 PM

A sociopath would make the decision to sacrifice one for five lives very easily, while most people wouldn't. That right there says there's a reason why it's not a morally appropriate choice.

Mind you, if you yourself ducked to try and stop the trolley, thus taking the risk to sacrifice yourself, that's a completely different reaction than bluntly pushing somebody else, and to us, morally different. Why? Maybe it's because an impulse to save lives has problems coexisting with a callous termination of somebody else's life.

Anyway now we've had our trolleys rung, I'm too young to remember bussing for racial purposes.

However, special ed students are routinely bussed to schools that are not local because every county tends to have target schools that has the special ed program and support needed. As a result, school choice can be narrower.

I myself NEVER went to any of the same schools as my hearing siblings did. I couldn't even if I wanted to. I did happen to have a deaf sibling who had gone before, so in my senior year I had a teacher who remembered my sibling all too well and told me why.

Does busing special ed students destroy the ability of siblings to help foster social development and success in special ed siblings? Or does it remove competition and the knowledge of discriminatory treatment? I have no idea.

A friend of mine who was in "special ed" due to a hearing loss, but who was not given any support, attended the same school as her younger brother and saw him be put in the gifted program, and she felt she should have been too, but the stigma of being "special ed" prevented her from being considered for that.

On the other hand-- while it is good to centralize resources, what about the long bus rides involved for the students? Is that favorable to academic development?

I never had a bus ride of less than 40 minutes one way to school, while my siblings walked to school, and it was 5 minutes on the bus to their high school.

For a while I attended KDES in DC, which was over a hour's ride. I saw a lot of the down-and-out side of DC that way. Stray dogs in packs 20 years ago, that I remember.
And I was certainly in a more integrated environment than I had ever been in Fairfax county back then.

Yet, I saw the black and white student form different groups of friends, most teachers were white, and I don't know if there was a will to make sure kids socialized and played together equally.

So if Joel wants to study the "New form of Busing", special ed would be one place to look at; special ed kids are more often from poor families.

It's not always about race anymore; it's a lot about the legacy of race-- in health, income, education, and range of choice.



Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 4:47 PM

SCC: Bused, not bussed. Darn you, Mudge.

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 4:48 PM

About the idea that outing Plame was no big deal... I heard an interview on the radio with CIA directory Michael Hayden recently. I've been trying to find the transcript of that interview. I thought it was on the WaPo radio station, but I can't be sure it wasn't NPR or WTOP (another local news station).

I did find this on the CIA's website, which includes part of what I remember hearing, but not all...



"General Hayden: I'm not comfortable talking a great deal about it. But let me share with you something I shared with the members of the House of Representatives as they were about to hold open hearings a month or two ago. And that's simply this: The people in our Agency are either not undercover or they are undercover, they are either overt or covert. And then that's a binary choice for us. And there isn't a whole lot more to be said once someone has been identified as one or the other category. That is the role the Agency played in this whole national debate, and I'll let all of the other elements about that...I'll let other people talk about that. The role of this Agency was simply saying that Ms. Plame's relationship with this Agency, as a covert CIA officer, was a classified piece of information. "

What's missing? There was a discussion where Hayden made it clear that either you're covert or not and Plame was covert and it was a danger to peoples' lives when she was outed.

The interviewer asked, almost incredulously, "You mean people died because she was outed?" and Hayden answered, "Certainly."

Did anyone else hear this interview?

Posted by: TBG | July 3, 2007 4:57 PM

Reaction to busing in Boston was particularly disgusting. For anyone interested, Common Ground by J. Anthony Lukas is the best account there is.

According to my father who knew everything (really), every word in that book is true.

Here's the quick amazon review:

The climax of this humane account of 10 years in Boston that began with news of Martin Luther King's assassination, is a watershed moment in the city's modern history--the 1974 racist riots that followed the court-ordered busing of kids to integrate the schools. To bring understanding to that moment, Lukas, a former New York Times journalist, focuses on two working-class families, headed by an Irish-American widow and an African-American mother, and on the middle-class family of a white liberal couple. Lukas goes beyond stereotypes, carefully grounding each perspective in its historical roots, whether in the antebellum South, or famine-era Ireland. In the background is the cast of public figures--including Judge Garrity, Mayor White, and Cardinal Cushing--with cameo roles in this disturbing history that won the 1986 Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction.

I'll never forget the news coverage of that era, white men, women, and children shrieking, spitting, and throwing rocks at black kids on buses coming into their poor white neighborhoods of Charlestown and South Boston. I was deeply ashamed for the first time by being an Irish-Catholic.

Posted by: Maggie O'D | July 3, 2007 4:58 PM

frostbitten! I was so shocked to see a reference to Newport News (my current place of employment; I live in nearby Smithfield -- Ham Capital of the World) that it prompted me to actually post in the boodle for once rather than just read it. The local paper here recently ran a "You know you're from Hampton Roads when..." feature, and one of them was: "You are astonished at any mass media mention of any Hampton Roads city." I guess it's true. And, yes, I just called the A-blog "mass media."

I'm not old enough to know firsthand, but it seems busing might not have caused the problems in southeast Virginia that it did elsewhere because the white families that opposed integration simply started their own schools. (Which was obviously a problem on its own -- see, Massive Resistance; I'm just saying busing in particular isn't associated with VA like it is Charlotte and some other places.) Any time I see an "Academy" with a royal-looking crest and a "Founded 1968" tag, I am reminded how barely removed we are from that era. Most of the schools are still open, and many are quite good. But they don't really acknowledge their past and I wonder how many students are even aware of it.

Posted by: hoosier | July 3, 2007 5:11 PM

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 5:18 PM

The trolley problem is inextricably linked to the last topic of conversation: admitting to limited knowledge. These philosophical conundrums almost always imply the actor has godlike knowledge. As if.

I was in a first-time, first year desegregated class in the 9th grade in a small North Florida town. I was afraid of black people. I recall Melvin wore a button that said, "Say it Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud!" At first I was put off, but the more I thought about it, the more I admired his cojones. (The teacher, a redneck no matter how you rotate your spectacles, gave him grief about it but I think he liked Melvin's cojones also.)

Posted by: Jumper | July 3, 2007 5:22 PM

TGB,

What I find assuming is that both the results of a carefully orchestrated effort to suggest that there is "another side of the story" and just a whole lot of talking noise eminating from clutterati of "right-wing" talk radio and Fox punditry is sliding into the Internet world of discourse-- and in that world being dealt a big laugh.

Your point on the Hayden interview, which is pretty much the cold hard facts of what will happen when you out a "Brass Plate" CIA operation, is being ignored by most right wing pundits, I guess, because it just doesn't serve this moment's points of argument.

In deed, the noise is constant and repeating the same tired points... such as it is a given that Plame was not an undercover employee of the agency. Clearly, what has been the result of decades of development, such operations would most certainly have employees that have developed multiple relationships that would be more than jeopardized with an outing. Without all the noise, your stand issue high school kids can understand this, but, in the face of bald faced reality, there is this "other side of the coin" that we are fed over and over to make it sound like there is still a debate.

TGB, you heard what makes all sorts of sense but you can't believe you heard it because of the level of noise and repetition of that non-truth.

It is patently obvious that some damage would be done. Bush 41 knows it and in a way, and this is a huge stretch here, is why he was crying when honoring his son Jeb Bush in Florida. I think he figured that Jeb had served in the old fine tradition of the Republican party in his role as a state executive while his other son has managed to ruin operations in his old agency of which he had long been associated and operations centers are adorned with his name.

In a way, I guess possibly, a huge disservice was done to his country, his family and to the world by fate handing the Presidency to the wrong son. We might be far better off if W just went off with dad and played some speed golf--just as long as Cheney were allowed only to go shoot quail ... not Dan Quayle, of course.

Posted by: Casper | July 3, 2007 5:26 PM

Make that: What I am assuming is both 1. the results of a carefully orchestrated effort to suggest that there is "another side of the story" and 2. just a whole lot of talking noise eminating ...

Posted by: Casper | July 3, 2007 5:30 PM

hoosier-nothing made the Hampton Roads area seem progressive in the late '60s early '70s quite like "South Side" VA. I agree with you about the academies allowing a lot of whites to sidestep busing. But, I also think the big military presence pushed a lot of change a lot faster than much of VA experienced.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 5:53 PM

NPR is reporting all 8 suspects in the attempted London car bombing were employees of the National Health Service.

Guess we'll never have single payer health now.

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 6:07 PM

Frostbitten!!! HA HA HA!!!! you know it. Something like this could save the Healthcare lobby hundreds of millions of dollars.

Posted by: Casper | July 3, 2007 6:14 PM

Like there's a rigorous inspection of doctors in the private sector. "Oh, never mind that suspicous package over there, I'm going out to play sports after work."

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 6:27 PM

About the busing question.......

I did not have to deal with that. I went to a segregated school with people that looked exactly like me. I've only had the experience of going to school with others since going back in old age. And let me tell you, was that a stressful situation. It was that way because of the age(old) and because of the lack of experience with people from other cultures. I did enjoy the experience, although, most of the time I was so knotted up and frightened it was hard to keep up. Living in the South was especially difficult during the time that integration took place, which was long after the Supreme Court decision. White flight, White churches building their own schools, and private school becoming the trend, made the progress much harder, and so much more complicated. And then there were the riots to deal with, although we didn't have too much of that where I lived. We did have a situation where a young African-American woman was shot by a White police officer sometimes after and half of our small town was on fire every night. We had a curfew for weeks, and made the national news even. I do not want to see that again.

The larger cities like Charlotte found it difficult to deal with the busing issue, and from day one they fought it. Now their children are still doing the same. We know schools and education aren't equal in this country, and until we, first, say that, and next, do something about it, it will continue that way.

Since getting up in age, I've come to think that it would be so much better for every one, all of us, if people, no matter their culture, gender, status, whatever, had a good education. Everybody would profit from that, but I think some people think that it would help someone, and in helping someone, that someone may get the better of the one that is helping.

The g-girl is gone, and I want to cry, but I'm happy she's going to see her mother, and I in turn get a little break. But miss her already. And my grandsons, I'm believe I'm going to have to hitch hike to seem them. I get so frustrated with my situation at times. *scream*

Posted by: Cassandra S | July 3, 2007 6:28 PM

My first love was a little black girl named "Crystal" I met in kindergarten. I used to drive my mother nuts talking about her, "Crystal this" and "Crystal that" and "someday I'm gonna marry Crystal". I'll never forget the day I brought home our class photo and Mom asked me which girl was Crystal. Mom was a wee bit surprised and she handled it fairly well, I suppose, in retrospect considering the times. What I couldn't understand then was why we had to keep it quiet -- especially from Dad and my grandmother.

I can honestly say that until that day, I was truly and absolutely colorblind.

I loved my Mom (and God rest her soul, I still do), and I'm sure she meant no harm by her reaction, but dangit... I still want to kick her for it. Whether she meant to or not, she took something away from me that day that I can never get back.

Posted by: martooni | July 3, 2007 6:28 PM

I agree, Cassandra. Everybody, bright and slow alike should be educated to improve their strengths and weaknesses.

A well-educated citizenry that has good thinking skills and shared knowledge base is important for this country's wellbeing.

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 6:37 PM

to seem them - to see them.

Hello, Newman. I hope you like it here.

Posted by: Cassandra S | July 3, 2007 6:37 PM

Cassandra, a stupid question, but you can't find this stuff out if you don't ask. I'm going along beleiving from all I have read that perdominantly black areas had fewer schools fewer programs, less money, in the 60's. Am I understanding correctly?

I also wanted to ask, if that is still the case in the public system? Someone said something a few weeks ago that made me wonder.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 7:10 PM

Posted by: TBG | July 3, 2007 7:11 PM

SCC pretty much everything, but the question itself.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 7:12 PM

> "Guess we'll never have single payer health now."

Frosti... I had to laugh in spite of myself on that one.

That's actually been a very top-of-mind topic for me lately, mainly due to the medical bills I've racked up over the last year and the fact that I'm still uninsured today.

One thing I've noticed lately that really gets my goat is that people with very serious health issues -- insured or not -- are forced to beg for the dollars a greedy health care system demands to treat them. All those coffee cans at supermarket counters asking for your loose change. Having to send tear-soaked videos in to ABC because their kid had the nerve to get sick and they lost everything, so Ty Pennington has to build them a new house in a week.

I'm all for doctors getting paid for their services, but when the cost of a surgery or other procedure gets into the hundreds of thousands of dollars range and a family is forced to choose between bankruptcy and death, I just want to jam a copy of the Hippocratic Oath up the arse of whoever dreams up the "costs" on those bills.

I'm beginning to have as much respect for docs as I do for insurance salesmen and claims adjusters.

I know the fault can't be blamed on the docs alone -- the problem is systemic -- but maybe if they'd settle for $50 golf putters instead of $5000 ones, their cries over the cost of malpractice insurance might attract some sympathy.

((sorry 'bout the rant... that one's been stewing for a while. And I haven't even seen "Sicko" yet.))

Posted by: martooni | July 3, 2007 7:15 PM

Dr, school systems are often funded locally. As a result, minority neighborhoods that do have significant disadvantage socioeconomically cannot fund their schools sufficiently.

So inner cities, poor and predominantly black areas-- yes, the disparity in funding continues compared to affluent suburban areas. Across the city, there might not be a significant difference in funding, although when you have to use money for metal detectors and frisking students, that naturally takes something away from the school itself.

Title I Schools (improving education for the disadvantaged) qualify for federal aid-- IF they meet AYP (annual yearly progress) on testing.

That means schools that are already underperforming due to poor funding might be further in the nick. Ironically, NCLB actually affects Title I schools the hardest. While the motivation to make sure disadvantaged kids do catch up academically is good, there's too much stick and not enough carrot, and it can discriminate against schools that have a large percentage of disabled students that are simply not grade level and have a LONG way to go to catch up.

Special ed students can be bused out of those title I schools, but then the schools lose the funding for those students, which doesn't help them improve their ability to provide special education services, and hurts their overall budget.

Friends who are special ed teachers are screaming over the NCLB because in many ways, it actually conflicts with IDEA and the need to provide a Least restrictive environment for learning, as well as a real concern over the low exemption figures for disabled students (only 1% can be exempted, when the real figure of disabled kids out there is more like 20%.... in one school, a teacher estimated the figure of kids too disabled to work at grade level would be 10%.)

Sorry for the speech, but I've made myself a little more familiar with education in the past year.


Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 7:20 PM

What if the 5 people on the trolley tracks were Arbusto, Mr. Scooby Doo-B-Doo, Scooter, Alberto and //choice of majority-bloc Supreme here//? Kind of takes all the urgency out of it, no?

Joel, loved this: *It's like they don't know who they're dealing with.* I have a new boss, and every time he proposes we actually DO something (differently), we have the same reaction.

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 7:26 PM

martooni, I'm with you on that point. Whenever I surf by that show I think of gold coins being tossed from a carriage.

Posted by: SonofCarl | July 3, 2007 7:35 PM

Hi, everyone! I've been out of town and out of touch for quite a while but I've been trying to back-boodle today. Have no busing stories, but I have to say Martooni (and everyone else) DO go see Sicko. It's *quite* good.

And in a health-related segue, this site claims that New Zealand specifically, and other developed nations generally, are building detainment centers in case of need for bird flu quarantine.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/headlines/14740/Detention_Camp_Concentration_Camp

It's scary stuff.

Posted by: Wheezy | July 3, 2007 7:36 PM

I've been intrigued by "White Flight:
Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism" by Kevin M. Kruse
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8043.html

Posted by: Dave of the Coonties | July 3, 2007 7:51 PM

Thanks Wilbrod. This might interest you. I found it pretty interesting, but its a lot of reading and 'ritmetic.

http://www.education.gov.ab.ca/funding/FundingManual/

Everyone pays an education portion of propperty taxes to the provincial government to fund schools. They tell you how much you owe, they tell you how much they will give you and its up to each school district to make sure that funds are used wisely and responsibly. If there was significant disparity between schools in the district as to programs, the provincial government would come down awfully hard on the division. Its local funding to central dispersal and central control.

Posted by: dr | July 3, 2007 7:56 PM

Hey Wheezy, welcome back!

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 8:11 PM

Here in NC, the state funds education but counties are responsible for the physical plants and for supplemental pay for teachers. There are significant discrepancies among school districts, because of the population base and local economy of individual counties. The state sales and income taxes fund education, with local property taxes funding counties' contribution.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg has been in court over its lower-achieving schools, especially the high schools. The judge threatened to close one of them, but that is so counterproductive. There just isn't any place else for the kids to go.

While there was some white flight from the public schools over busing, it was a small minority of students and never significantly impacted public school operations.

Cassandra is absolutely correct about the need for good education. I think, though, that we need to broaden our concept of what a good education includes. It should include basic literacy, writing, and math skills, but not every child should go to college. Kids should be able to easily find the education to fit their abilities and interests. The local technical high school, a beautiful facility, has had problems finding teachers for auto mechanics. How ridiculous is that?

Posted by: Slyness | July 3, 2007 8:15 PM

"It should include basic literacy, writing, and math skills, but not every child should go to college"

Very true Slyness, and I include Frostdottir in that assessment-even though she is in college. However, she is there to get access to a technical program that could be offered at the high school level if high schools consistently produced students with basic literacy, writing and math skills.


Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 8:33 PM

In honor of this week's hottest news item tonight's dvd at Chez Frostbitten North is "Breach" (the Robert Hansen story). Oooh, they just hung pictures of W and Ashcroft on the walls of his office.

Who said they never knew they'd miss Ashcroft?

Posted by: frostbitten | July 3, 2007 8:37 PM

I'm surprised that, in this discussion of busing, nobody's brought up today's R. Cohen column.

(See the column at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/02/AR2007070201558.html.)
It's not about busing, but it is about race and education--specifically about the differences between the school performance of white students and that of minority students.

Using the DC schools, which are the most expensive and worst performing in the nation, as an example, Cohen chastises the Democratic presidential candidates for pushing the idea that differences in school performance are about money in last week's forum at Howard.

From his closing paragraph: It must have sounded reassuring to big-city education unions and politicians with a gift for exacerbating racial paranoia. But to the kid in the classroom, to a parent bucking the bureaucracy, the rhetoric must have sounded as unreal as the hot air that comes from Baghdad's Green Zone . . .

I hate to despair when the subject is as important as the education of our children, but the challenges are numerous and substantial. In my view, we have to take seriously the differences in the experiences and skills students bring to the classroom. Teachers are, of course, obligated to do the best job they can of teaching whichever students appear in their classrooms, but if no one has read to children before they come to school, they will be at a disadvantage no matter how good the teachers are.

However we might wish things were otherwise, it is a fact that low-income, poorly educated parents--and it is their children we are concerned about--do less to prepare their students for school and to help them once they start school. They may be--in fact, they almost certainly are--deeply concerned about the education, but, taken together, the reality of poor academic skills, multiple jobs, and discomfort in dealing with school officials undermine their ability to express that concern in practical ways.

I'd like to see us doing more to help parents help children rather than focusing on which building the children are in.

Posted by: THS | July 3, 2007 8:51 PM

If DC schools are expensive, I bet the expensiveness goes to administrative corruption, not the actual schools themselves. Have y'all ever been inside a DC high school?

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 9:14 PM

I'm sure you're right, Wilbrod. I know that many DC schools are in very poor shape, and I have also read many times that there is a huge layer of non-functioning administrators who have done more or less nothing to improve the schools for many years running.

Posted by: THS | July 3, 2007 9:20 PM

Joel, thanks for that "trolley problem" link. The deontological position seems to dovetail nicely with your concept of doubt as a virtue. Besides, deontological is a pretty cool word.

I have no first-hand experience with forced busing. The demographics of my rural Pacific Northwest upbringing didn't much lend itself to the concept. Which is another reason I love Fairfax County. My children take diversity as a given. Which is as it should be.

Anyway, had a good day at the beach and environs. I read my first Hiaasen book, "Nature Girl," and enjoyed it thoroughly. I must admit, though, that the unexpectedly racy bits produced a flush not entirely caused by the heat of the sun. This makes me curious if all of his grown-up books are so disarmingly risqué. It has become a literary imperative to find out.

Posted by: RD Padouk | July 3, 2007 9:23 PM

RD, you will need to read the entire oeuvre to determine the proper picaresque-quotient in Hiaasen.

Following which, I suggest you read James Salter's "A Sport and Pastime," which will give you the measure by which to judge.

I do not find Hiaasen so much erotic as darkly hilarious (which has its own attractions). Salter? Otherwise.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 9:35 PM

One reason for the non-productive layer of educational bureaucrats is the blizzard of state and federal legislation and regulation. School districts need to assign lots of expensive people with post-graduate education to read closely all the new bills to spot new requirements hidden deep inside, to plan for those requirements no matter how irrelevant they are to education, and to create all the reports and statistics for the required dog and pony shows. Ditto for just about every agency concerned with any aspect of human welfare. These bureaucratic layers are likely to be highly professionalized, which means that piling up course credits and suchlike may get one to a position of responsibility faster than being effective. My apologies in advance if I've offended any boodlers from such an agency, and I realize there are many people in such places trying to make a difference; we did some computer system consulting for an LA County department related to welfare a couple of decades ago, and this conclusion was hard to miss.

Posted by: LTL-CA | July 3, 2007 9:47 PM

No busing story to tell but the word raises a question that has been nagging me for some time. Can you tell me if it has always been the case that nouns have morphed into verbs? It seems to be all the rage today with words like "texting", "blogging", etc. cropping up all the time. Sort of like the chicken and the egg. Has the noun always come first?

Posted by: wayofftopic | July 3, 2007 9:48 PM

Nature Girl, eh? I must have missed that one.

Posted by: LTL-CA | July 3, 2007 9:50 PM

Ironic use of "cropping" there....

Posted by: | July 3, 2007 9:51 PM

Transport works easily as both noun and verb. Why not a specific form of it, such as bus?

Posted by: LTL-CA | July 3, 2007 9:52 PM

Yoki, you are right on in recognizing Hiassen as "darkly hilarious." In his youth in Ft. Lauderdale he and his buds converted a storefront to their personal place - and it was located less than a block from where his dad practiced law. His first hand knowledge of changing Florida, the characters of his pen and his sense of humor at lambasting the inevitable change bespeak a horror and humor that I have shared.

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 9:53 PM

wayofftopic, I hate that. I have hatred. Hatitude. It is hatilicious.

Resist! Use complete sentences, even. I maintain a weblog, not I am blogging or I blog.

You know the other thing I really hate? When people become incorrect, instead of more correct, when they want to go back the root.

Gracious become graciousness instead of grace.

Gratitude becomes thankfulness instead of thanks.

Generosity become generousness.

(Insert your example here)

Arghghghg! Is plain style too much to ask?

Apparently it is.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 9:58 PM

And I have undermined my own argument by too many SCC entries to count. G'night all.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:03 PM

Yoki! You maintain a weblog? I think blogging or texting is a more succinct way of describing an action that didn't even exist 10 years ago. Much like I "mousse" my hair. :-)

Isn't there a precedent in something like "journaling"?

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:03 PM

After prolonged reading of conflated vocabulariness, populacelets have the capacitiousness for anything.

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 10:05 PM

I trust my last comment caused a high grade of crystallized clarity, no?

Posted by: Wilbrod | July 3, 2007 10:07 PM

Thanks Shiloh. The thing I just love about Carl Hiaasen is that I find myself laughing out loud, and appalled at myself. It is a wonderful, humourous, writerly effect. But mostly wonderful (full of wonder, awesome).

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:07 PM

well said, wilbrod. LOL

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 10:08 PM

Ya, dbG. But I hate that too. And do you "mousse" your hair? I "rub a foam-like conditioner over my pate and through my tresses," myself. Or not.

Wilbrod, "capatiousness?" "Capatiousness?!" hahahahaha.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:12 PM

If I remember Lukacs correctly, Yoki, the primary objective of the novel is to entertain - and Hiassen does that admirably.

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 10:12 PM

Yoki, my -er- hat's off to you. I don't have time to mousse my hair in the morning, let alone describe it in the terms you used!

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:14 PM

Yoki I recently lent a book to someone, not knowing this person particularly well I wasn't sure if they would appreciate the author as much as I did. After I asked if this person was enjoying the book, they replied that it made them laugh out loud in parts - that made me feel good.

Enjoying reading the posts about busing, it is a glimpse into a time period that holds a great deal of interest for me.

Posted by: dmd | July 3, 2007 10:16 PM

>Much like I "mousse" my hair. :-)

Are we back on "Moose and Squirrel"?

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 10:16 PM

In this area, my pet peeve would be the use of the word "product" instead of a specific hair product. For example, "He put too much product in his hair this morning."

I guess it serves a purpose if you don't really know *which* product it is, but I still don't like it.

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:17 PM

Only, Shiloh, I think he does more than that, as do the very best novelists. They show us the absurdity (absurditness, absurdiosity) of our preoccupations. Think of the best early novelists, who gave us novelty and entertainment, but also held up a mirror to their societies' weaknesses. Richardson, Fielding, Thackeray...

I just love literature. I'm literate, literary, literal, litertureish...

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:19 PM

me neither, dbG.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:22 PM

I've never squirreled my hair, Error.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:23 PM

I'm out! Thanks for the good fun, friends. See you tomorrow or sometime in the future.

Posted by: Yoki | July 3, 2007 10:25 PM

>I've never squirreled my hair, Error.

Well I'm glad to hear old Rocky is safe anyway. Although between the two it would be easier to get a squirrel in the bathroom for sure.

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 10:27 PM

EF, there must be some word algorithm we can create which riffs "Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of a hat," into some rabbit/hair pun.

One wonderful created word I heard this week was after a meeting where we were throwing "algorithm" around a lot. Afterwards, one of the business guys said "allegoryithm" to me. Love it. What would that be? A formulaic storyline?

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:29 PM

and, Yoki, Butler, Camus, and Mishima to move forward.

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 10:31 PM

//Although between the two it would be easier to get a squirrel in the bathroom for sure.//

And harder to get out? Mudge, does a flying squirrel = a bat?

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:32 PM

I'm out too.

A certain, unnamed but very well-known financial institution, possessing the finest in SOL technology, caused me to be beeped twice this morning--once at 2 a.m., once at 3:30.

We do a lot of business with these guys. None of us would have a credit card with them on a bet.

Posted by: dbG | July 3, 2007 10:37 PM

I don't think a flying squirrel is the same as a bat -- it's its own separate critter.

A flying *fox*, however, is a kind of bat.

Posted by: Tom fan | July 3, 2007 10:38 PM

>A formulaic storyline?

Yeah that works. Most story lines really are pretty well formula anyway. Like music, there's a structure that drops right in.

I must say I'm enjoying "Casino Royale" with the new Bond, Daniel Craig. In Blu-Ray no less. He's a good Bond, I'm impressed.

Posted by: Error Flynn | July 3, 2007 10:41 PM

Padouk, as someone who has read the entire Hiaasen oeuvre (except the kids books), I can assure you that "Nature Girl" was significantly more risque than his previous novels. "Skinny Dip" had some stuff in it along those lines you mention, but not as much. And I'd say that all the early ones before "Stormy Weather" had just about zero risque content. (Still some F-bombs, of course, but that's a different question.) I have to admit a few things in "Nature Girl" raised my eyebrows once or twice--not so much because of the content, but more because it was out of character for Hiaasen, I thought. I actually had to think about whether to give it to me wife (she's not too crazy about that kinda content and the F-bombs), but kinda had no choice, since I'd won it in that Dave Barry silent auction I blogged about.

Baked two Five-Cherry Faux-Sour Cherry Pies with crumb topping tonight, and tried an experiment about which I may (or may not) describe later, when I take the pies out of the oven. Whether or not the experiment worked, the house sure smells good.

Posted by: Curmudgeon | July 3, 2007 10:44 PM

Catching up on the Boodle this evening, noticed the link to the Trolley Problem.

Haven't these philosopher guys ever seen "The Wrath of Khan?"

Sheesh.

Sometimes something that looks like a "no win scenario" isn't (particularly with the right scriptwriters), and sometimes the right person to throw under the bus is yourself.

Huh, that puts a different meaning to the word "busing," doesn't it?

Also, re. Gladitor movies: I've got my knee high lace-up sandals, my bronze breastplates, my Extra Virgin Olive Oil, my leather loincloth and my broadsword; I'm ready when you are.

bc

Posted by: bc | July 3, 2007 10:53 PM

censorious reporters, Cur, are not unfamiliar. Faux sour cherry pie begs explanation. Have the Bings and Raniers been reduced to faux?

Posted by: Shiloh | July 3, 2007 10:55 PM

Mudge... I look forward to hearing the results of your pie experiment as long as it doesn't resemble the one performed in the movie "American Pie".

Posted by: martooni | July 3, 2007 11:00 PM

Actually, I believe flying squirrels don't so much actually fly as have some capacity for gliding due to flaps of skin between their front and rear legs.

Bats (and flying foxes) have evolved real wings from those forelegs, and can lift themselves into the air with their wingbeats. Therfore, I'd say they can fly.

My $.02, anyway.

bc

I haven't read "Nature Girl" yet, but I plan to. Read every other Hiaasen book I'm aware of, including "Hoot" and "Flushed."

bc

Posted by: bc | July 3, 2007 11:09 PM

I am a sick, sick man.

One mention of "pie" and "experiment" and my mind immediately grasps the most ignorant and tasteless thought it can find.

I should try to get a job writing for Cosmo.

Posted by: martooni | July 3, 2007 11:10 PM

This is good news - the reporter who was kidnapped in Gaza has been freed:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070300322.html?hpid=topnews

I could use some good news. A big chunk of computing folk at my very large corporation are being outsourced (or outtasked, as some people say). The work isn't going out of the country, just to another company. It doesn't directly aff