Good morning Cassandra. Good morning Martooni.

Excellent prognostication, RDP.

:-)

Good morning to you, too, daiwanian. :-)

And the same to everyone else.

I think Joel missed something regarding rich and poor -- people of all brackets living beyond their means. In theory, credit allows one to increase their purchasing power by 3 to 4 times their earnings. So you end up with families who make, say $80K a year, living in a $250K home with two $20K vehicles in the garage, lots of bling like high-def wide-screen plasma TVs and all that, but don't have two nickels left to rub together at the end of the month.

It's not how much you make, but how wealthy people think you are.

I'm no saint when it comes to money management (just ask Mrs. M.), but it seems to me that much of the financial woe in this country is because very few people spend less than they earn and save the difference.

Speaking of earning... off to make the doors. :-)

Peace and sawdust...

I don't know where merely rich gives way to filthy rich, but I do know that Sir Paul's soon-to-be-ex-wife doesn't like 'em (sez this very publication - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/21/AR2007112102304.html):

"Heather Mills McCartney... denounced the world's rich as misers and snobs Wednesday.

"Mills McCartney delivered the critical comments during her 90-minute speech to the debating society of Trinity College Dublin."

[And apparently, 'Paul McCartney' is the answer to the question, 'Who do I have to [service] to be able to give a speech at Trinity College Dublin, anyway?']

Martooni is very right. It isn't how much you make, it is how well matched your lifestyle is to your income. I know people who make close to $200K who are in trouble because they have overextended themselves.

The secret is to keep your standard of living well below your income so that you have a little breathing room. Of course, that assumes that you make enough so that this can be done without taking up residence in a cardboard box over a steam grate.

The boss mentioned my birthplace, Ames, Iowa, and said that I could live as comfortably there on $68K as I am here, making $97K. I'd move back there in a heartbeat, but what does a died-in-the-wool-Navy/maritime-guy do for a living in Iowa?

Happy leftovers, everybody.

Something tells me that today is not going to be a warm and fuzzy day in the Boodle.

"'...And you travel. You travel globally. You go to Europe at least once a year, and perhaps Asia.'

Or even conquer gravity itself, he said.

'The new status symbol for the rich,' Frank said, 'is going to space.'"

IMO, the real trick is going to be figuring out how to set up permanent residence there. Last time I checked, nobody living up there had to pay any taxes whatsoever.

That's a hell of a loophole, and the view is better than from a Monte Carlo hotel.

No problem finding land to buy in NEO, either, though I suggest prospective residents take the space junk policy rider.

bc

Don - I know what you mean. My income would make me a Prince in PA Dutch country, where my in-laws live. Not so in Fairfax County. But there aren't many job opportunities for what I do in Amish Country. Trust me, I've asked.

What the NYT forget to point out in their Costco article is that you can't shop at Costco if you're poor. Yeah, the prices are low on a per-pound basis, but you've got to be able to afford to buy the big, multi-pound packages--and have somewhere to put it all.

When my kids were small and my husband was in grad school, the only way I could shop at Costco was if my mom took me there and split the stuff with me. And I piggybacked on my parents' membership as well.

There are ten Costco locations within the 10007 zip code of Manhattan. There are plenty of New Yorkers shopping there, too.

Whoops, meant to add that I liked Joel's use of "lambaste," spelled in the Classic style.

bc

Excellent prognostication, bc.

:-)

Hmmm. I am in the category of "owning two homes" but it's not by intention or desire. Actually, it's two houses -- only one is in use as a home. Wanna buy a piece of suburban splendor? We have one house too many, and it's eating away at the bank account.

According to Obama, I am in the upper class. Yet, I have no horse, nor prospects to own one, nor do I own rolling hills and sweeping vistas (I have a hillside, and a partial vista of a tot lot and a stream). We already have too many pets, anyway. I look at prospective college costs, and tell the ScienceKids what my parents told me: "Be smart. Scholarships are the only way you'll be able to afford college." My expectation, at this point, is that I will be unable to afford to retire. Which is too bad, because I wanted to go back to grad school and become ArchaeologyTim. Or would that be IndianaTim?

I shopped Costco a lot when the kids were younger. I saved money on breakfast cereal alone. We should have had shares in a Cherrio factory. The only reason it worked was that I had a 6 foot closet that served as a pantry. The hard part was avoiding all the rest of the stuff they sell.

This article extends a notion Joel made during his "diavlog" about being both affluent and financially strapped. A large part of this seems to be expectations regarding one's offspring. I refer not to things like designer clothes, but rather to band, fancy school field trips, and other "enrichment activities." Not only were many of these things not expected when I was a kid, they are a lot more expensive than they used to be. Have you priced a nice saxophone lately? And the expectation of the band program is that your child *will* have a nice one.

And while it is easy to point out that when I was a lad I had an after-school job, it is also true that, in Fairfax at least, the educational system has conspired to make a college-track high school curriculum so onerous that after school jobs are difficult. Not to mention that the number of such jobs suitable for a high school student are dropping precipitously.

True, one could lay down the line and refuse to subsidize extracurricular activities. You can insist that life without a week long biology trip is still worth living. But in doing so you really do run the risk of lowering their expectations for themselves.

So you end up with what is known as a high cash flow.

Don, in Iowa you grow corn. If that doesn't appeal to you, I suppose you should stay where you are. Hey, I'll be there with you!

Since I've retired, my gross income dropped by about half, although my net is about the same. I was only taking home about half of my gross because I was saving a bunch. Not having the liquid savings has been an adjustment for me. However, I'm surviving without having to go back to work, and that makes me happy. The reason I could retire is that my former employer includes retirees in its medical insurance pool. I am fortunate.

Actually, I have three homes. Two of them are vacation homes, of course. One is parked in the driveway and serves double duty when there is lumber or fertilizer to be hauled and leaks a little in a hard rain just where the camper shell meets the tailgate. The other vacation home is folded and rolled up in a bag in the basement.

I've been living beyond my means for several decades now. I live in a townhouse, have two car payments, and send my kid to public school. If that is rich, I'll gladly exchange perks, salary, and bennies with Senator Obama. My wife is a public school teacher which is the bump in salary that sends us over the edge into fabulously well-to-do.

Our one extravagance is travel. We went to China last year and are going to London this year. While that sounds ritzy, it's far less glamorous than it sounds.

I subscribe to the can't take it with you theory of financial planning and sympathize with the grasshopper in that old fable. Perhaps its from reading too many Travis McGee books as a teenager.

The trick, yellojkt, is to die as you spend your last dime. (The only sure way to accomplish this is to use that dime to buy a bullet.)This is the nightmare of every elder- that the money will run out before the time is up. I have been listening to Rudy G and the others rail about "socialized medicine" and have been itching to hear someone ask the question, "If you think socialized medicine is so bad, how soon after your election do you plan to do away with Medicare and Medicaid?"

I like Bernstein's definition of wealth. I'm certainly worrying more about the future of my kids than thinking about horses' stabling. Mind you, horse ownership is a good way to slip down in middle class from upper-middle-class. It reminds me of Yoki's roommate at Queen's who was fretting about having her horses and stable hand moved somewhere nearby so she could keep her horsemanship up to the level.
Same here RD Padouk, I would be a rich man in Baie-St-Paul. I could easily own two houses and one cottage out there for the price of my 1968 built 1800 sq. ft. high-ranch bungalow. But I'm not very good at logging.
I note here that the 35% marginal tax rate does not apply to the über-rich a.k.a. hedge fund managers, they pay only 15%. On the Canadian side my marginal tax rate (federal and provincial combined) went down to 47% last year, from a high of 52% 6-7 years ago. That is without counting the 15% combined GST/provincial sales tax if you decide to buy something with your money.
bc, Doug Flutie is the best QB to have walked on a CFL football field. He really digged the wide field and knew what to do with the 12th man. But having superstars like him in the CFL almost killed the league. Only two teams (TO Argos and BC Lions) had the gate and TV revenues to afford the salaries these guys commended. The marquee player exception allowing one mega-salary to be counted out of the salary cap had to go. And then the salary cap had to go down as well since only 3-4 teams could afford to reach the salary cap. I liked Flutie a lot but basically, he had to go. At the time our "local" American TV network stations were from Watertown, Rochester or Plattsburgh so we got to see him play for the Bills anyway.

byoolin;

I heard about that HMM speech as well, and my first thought was, "OK, so she's expending a lot of effort to be someone she denounces?"

:-)

I'm also on the SciTim never gonna retire plan. That conflicts with my career goals of getting a PhD in English Literature and becoming an antiquarian book dealer.

Looking around the hallways I sometimes suspect that people never actually retire from this place. Which makes me wonder just what happens to them. Hmm. Better look into that.

...[Robert Frank] being rich comes with certain requirements:

"You have to have at least two homes," said Frank, author of "Richistan," a book about wealthy Americans. ... You give to charity and attend charitable events.

[Rant coming....] Last year's Copyright Texas was a free event, held downtown in an aging hotel, and open to all comers and all income levels. The authors who spoke were Greg Curtis, Joan Cheever, Karen Olsson, John Taliaferro and Lawrence Wright.

The San Antonio Public Library Foundation made this year's event a charitable event. IIRC, about 200 people attended paying $150. The same old monied people, such as a former mayor, attended--to hear a new roster of authors including our local David Liss; Evan Smith, editor of Texas Monthly magazine, and Beverly Lowry, author of "Harriet Tubman: Imagining a Life." Surprise guest or attendee was actor Tommy Lee Jones.

I think making this local literary event a paying proposition is a crying shame.

RD, I'm pretty sure your guys go find houses to haunt.

Our guys, we just put a tag on 'em that says "Abandon in Place", then we get on with work.

In this area, a family with two GS-14s at mid-grade would be considered "wealthy." I'm in this group, and, while I'm much more comfortable than I was 20 years ago, I sure don't feel wealthy. We bought our house in the pre-real-estate-bubble days and drive inexpensive vehicles, which leaves us with enough that we can actually save for retirement. I don't think we'd be able to say that if we had kids, though. With the expectations these days, (refer to RD's post) it would be very, very challenging.

I keep promising myself that some day I'm going to add up the taxes we pay (federal, state, Social Security, real estate, car). My sense is that the answer will be (I'm going to use a technical financial term) "a lot." Mind you, I'm not one of those anti-tax zealots. But sometimes I do wonder where it all goes.

Hereabouts the elderly are monitored by the facilities management office. When the emails complaining about heating and cooling cease, the building manager calls for an ambulance.

RD padouk, they don't retire; they become consultants. In my old job one day a guy would put his/her uniform on a coat hanger on a Friday and come in Monday as a so-called double-dipping civilian, as military pension is payable right away. 15-20 years later they would retire from the public service and come back as triple-dipping consultants. The cafeteria at that place looked like a retirement's home dining lounge in the first few years I worked there. Then the budget and manpower was cut 40% (the government's of the time peace dividend - although there had been no great cold war expenses).

Raysmom - We survive on just one of those salaries *with* kids, but my in-laws help. Not with money, per se, but other stuff - like letting us vacation in their condo for free.

Further, my wife had a great job for several years before we reproduced, and we stuck most of her income in some nice mutual funds. Plus we bought our home pre-bubble as well.

And. most importantly, I don't golf.

The point of all of this is that, with the obvious exception of extreme poverty, it is impossible to point to a given income and say that person is wealthy, while another is not.

The devil really is in the details.

The important thing, of course, is not to have consumer debt. The rates on credit cards are what kills budgets. If you save and then buy, you can have just about whatever you want, in time. This concept is contrary to the American Dream.

Slyness - you are absolutely right. The secret is to be patient. And it makes the eventual purchase so much more enjoyable.

I'm forced to be patient after the fact...

With interest...

*SIGH*

But I'm getting better. I think I'm going for a walk...

:-)

Ai Chihuahua!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/26/AR2007112600794.html?hpid=topnews

:-O

Count me in on the "Work to the Death" plan as well.

At least I won't ever have to worry about where I'm going to live when I retire.

*Tim, once you get the house situation squared away and the kids are a little older, maybe you can consider going for that degree in Archaeology. It'd give you a nice leg up to start that second job to cover taxes...

bc

Our combined income is knocking on the AMT door, if the law isn't amended. If the latter is the case, our tax bill is likely to wipe out the most liquid of our assets.

Obama really irked me with that $97,000 is rich stance. It's not even close. Event 200 grand jobs are hard working and high responsibility, with more choices, but still financial stress.

This article lays it out pretty well. Warren Buffett had it right: Why am I, the second richest man, paying 15% tax, and my secretary, making 60 grand, pays 28%?

THAT'S the outrage. The truly wealthy owe the nation plenty.

Time to pay up.

Scotty, that's terrible news about Taylor.

bc

SciTim, it may make you feel better if you call the other house a vacation property.

Or maybe a "family heritage property". Look kids! That's where your dad used to rake leaves, lo those many weeks ago.

Without putting much serious thought into the necessary parameters, I'm a fan of a flat tax. Assume two parameters: a per-person deduction, and a flat rate to apply to whatever is left after the deduction. Fit two constraints: the net tax paid at the median income level should be unchanged, and the total revenue from taxes should be unchanged (at least in the first year). This will define the two parameters in the taxation scheme, which will leave poor and lower middle-class people paying, quite possibly, no tax at all. Upper-class people (economically upper, that is), whose income is almost entirely disposable have to pay a high rate for all that extra money that they can choose to dispense in inefficient and self-indulgent ways.

I am willing to entertain additional modifications to this scheme, as philosophically appropriate. Keep in mind that I have no serious expectation of this scheme ever being enacted in reality. The mortgage-interest deduction, alone, would kill it -- there's no reasonable way to implement the mortgage deduction in my plan, yet the pricing of housing is so inflated by the deduction that it would be complete economic disaster to take it away.

Hmmmm. I suppose you could phase out the mortgage-interest deduction over a 15-year period. Most of the interest is paid in the first half of the loan, and the standard loan is 30 years, so it could work. Own a house already, you can deduct 100% of the interest. Buy a house this year, you get to deduct 93% of the interest. Buy a house next year, deduct 87% of the interest; and so on, until there is no deduction for interest. Housing prices will take a hit, spread out over 15 years, and real estate agents will have to drive older cars for a while. Once that deduction is gone, we can start talking about serious tax reform, starting 15 years from now.

That Warren Buffet remark doesn't even address the FICA rate which is what both Hillary and Barack are eying. Below 97k, the marginal rate is 43% including employer contribution. Since "rich people" make a lot of money from investing which isn't subject to FICA, any fiddling with upper limits or donut holes will still only hit the wage workers and let the plutocrats off.

And Congress is playing a dangerous game of chicken with the AMT since both parties hope that taxpayer outrage will hit the other guy harder. Everyone is in favor a flat tax until they realize their taxes go up.

Don't even get me started on the marriage penalty tax. I can't write-off my wife's student loan interest on the masters degree she needed to stay employable under NCLB because *I* make too much money.

SciTim - I agree that there is something attractive about the flat tax. The problem, as I see it, is that taxes are more than just tools to raise revenue. They are also tools for socially policy. Higher taxes on the very rich help buffer the inequities of unfettered capitalism. We use taxes to encourage behavior we want, like home ownership, and discourage behavior we do not want, like, ideally, carbon emissions. So I don't object to complex taxes, I just want them to truly improve the general welfare.

SCC "social policy." Socially policy sounds like what you advocate after too many martinis.

That's right, RD, taxes are social policy. We all (most of us?) approve of the public goods paid for by taxes which include, on a state and national level, law enforcement, military, common education (elementary through high school), fire protection, zoning and city planning (ever live in Houston?), roads and infrastructure, utilities and water infrastructure. Right now the benefits for the lower tax rates seem a trifle skewed.

I am also in the Work for Life club. At least I don't have to worry about what to do in my retirement.

I think Obama is closer to the truth of the matter, than Clinton is. If you have a poverty level for an idnividual of $10,000 surely $97,000 is above middle class.

If you want interesting, google poverty line and check out what the US Census Department has listed for figures. Very complex, as is the issue, as is the point about where does middle class begin. Depends on a lot.

I will be working till death, I'm certain. I just hope I will be able to move to a job that is less stressful before I die.

The most interesting fact to me is that the 3 richest counties in the US are in the DC suburbs. What does this say about the business of government? Where does all this money come from?

I unleashed a mild diatribe and went to google up a figure and lost the comment. The short version is that under the AMT my wife and I will owe something on the order of 2.5 - 3K. The AMT is slated to affect some 42 - 50 million tax payers this coming year. The last time I checked, a thousand million is a billion. The AMT will generate big bucks. So much for the administrations Keynesian view of the tax world. I can't recall many things that trickle down that are of much benefit, excepting the rain.

Good point, CC. Though is this median, or average income?

That's going to make a huge difference. It sure did in Toronto, where median income makes Toronto the city with the highest rate of poverty.

The thing that chaps me about the AMT is that I have to calculate the taxes twice! And the AMT calculation is particularly complex. Even with Turbo Tax you have to know answers to questions like, "Did you have any qualifying passive loss activities during the year?" I needed help screens for the help screens.

But if the alternative is to be as broke as I once was, I'll take the AMT every time.

Why are the three richest counties in the D.C. suburbs? Lobbying and consulting. They don't call them "Beltway Bandits" for nothing. I also suspect that some of the "wealth" is in the form of housing stock. I lived in central Oklahoma for 11 years and sold my house for exactly what I originally paid (economy went in the crapper). We've owned our house in Alexandria for 17 years and it's assessed at 500% of purchase price, down somewhat from recent years. The two houses are the same size and the one in Oklahoma is 20 years newer. Property taxes are 22x what we paid in Norman.

Raysmom, that's when I threw in the towel and found a good accountant.

Whaddaya mean, "everyone" is in favor of a flat tax, yello? *I'm* not in favor of one. I *like* the graduated tax. (It's the loopholes and many other problems I don't like. But in principle I don't have any problem with it.) So do many others. Don't make me come up there and smack you around.

SciTim, you seem to think real estate agents make lots of money. On average, I'd say they do "OK" if they work full-time at it (only about 20% of them do). Like any otgher profession, there's a handful at the top who do VERY well, but most are in the middle range. I'd estimate between, say $40k and $80k a year. I think a lot of the problem is that many people have the *highly* mistaken notion that because the commission on a house is 6 or 7 percent, that the real estate agent gets to keep that amount. The truth is, that 6 or 7 percent (and sometimes 5 percent, and I've heard of 4 1/2 once in a while) is a four-way split. So the "average" real estate agent gets about 1.5 to maybe 1.8 percent of the cost of the house--not 6 percent. (I'd roughly estimate that about 90 to 95 percent of agents get only 1.5% of the price; only a handful make more than the 1.5 split.) And out of that 1.5% commission, the agent has expenses, which can be sizable, sometimes up to 20% of their gross. (The ones who make the money are the developers and sometimes some builders, plus the people who OWN the real estate companies--but not their agents. That's where the split goes.)

(Having been married to a real estate agent for 25 years, I can attest that the average person, John and Jane Doe, know less about how real estate agents *really* work than they know about any other common profession. And most of what people *think* they know about REs is pretty much wrong. The thing is, they don't really have any great need to know, most of the time.)

Regarding the kit, it touched briefly upon the subject, but I don't think it paid nearly enough attention to it, which is the question of geography -- the DC versus Ames, Iowa idea. To me it is completely pointless to discuss whether $97k is rich or MC unless there is a geographic rider with it, because there is so much variation. In any event, I don't think $97K is "rich" anywhere -- but it is a lot more comfortable in some places than others. And it depends VERY significantly (IMHO) on whether you have kids at home or not, and whether you are carrying their college tuition bills, etc.

The other problem is that "class" isn't directly synonymous with money and income. "Class" is often about other issues as well, such as "taste" in culture, food, fashion, lifestyle, and all that other intangible stuff. I suspect Britney Spears has significantly more money than any person in this Boodle -- but she has less class than anybody on this boodle by a country mile. "Nouveau riche" is one thing-- but there are whole big segments of "the rich" -- mainly rock stars and athletes -- who have millions of dollars, but who are basically (you should pardon the phrase) "trailer trash." They're just trailer trash with lots of money, that's all. So we need to define what it is we're talking about.

The expert on non-monetary class questions for my money is Paul Fussell, who has written several books on the subject, the best of which is titled "Class." (Actually, "Class, A Guide Through the American Status System" (1983), and also
"Caste Marks: Style and Status in the USA" (1984) and "Uniforms: Why We Are What We Wear" (2002).)

And I'm in the same boat as a lot you: I plan to retire shortly after I drop dead. Although I'd retire this afternoon if I could afford it, and work harder in retirement writing my books than I do now not writing them but just working to pay the mortgage.

The whole question of geography is very much on my mind right now, because I'm on the academic job market. (In fact, I should be writing job letters right now instead of boodling. Oh well, it's just one little comment, right?) I don't expect to have any geographic choice whatsoever -- if I'm lucky enough to get an offer, that's where I'm going. But I'm really rooting for the little college towns over urban California. It would be nice to have a better standard of living as an assistant professor than as a struggling grad student.

Good luck with that, bia. I hear that these days the academy is cutthroat in competition for even the most lowly assistant professor positions.

Trent Lott's resigning...

Busy news day...

*rasied eyebrow*

Someone making $97,000 per year, outside of NYC, is wealthy unless they have adult dependents, and I mean young adults also, as in tuition. Otherwise, a two-person income of twice that, makes them wealthy.

Beware of flat taxes that will not be flat. A certain number of schemers want to declare ALL capital gains as "not income."

Which brings me to my most vexing question, because I tried researching this on the internet just the other day, and could not quite nail down the percentage of total U.S. revenues that comes from capital gains taxes. I consider myself a pretty good and even devious Googler, but this one threw me. I THINK I got an answer of 5% of all total U.S. revenues come from personal capital gains taxes. With the 15% rate being historically low, this is significant but I just can't locate the info.

This leaves out any remediation which might be achieved by actually collecting corporate income taxes, and raising the FICA cutoff, etc.

It also strikes me as inconclusive that our sole method of fighting off the threat of monopolistic plutocracy is taxation, but I accept that historically this is as good a solution as any so far. Our sense of fair play seems offended in some way if either side prevails. This jerry-built compromise seems inimicable to the Utopian American mind. And that's the only bone I will toss to the libertarians today.

*scraping lint covered pennies from my pocket for payment of dues to the work 'till you die club*

Thanks, Yoki. Yeah, I'm going to wait a few months before I let myself think about the likelihood of ending up in a paid-by-the-class, no benefits adjunct position.

I could have mentioned the anti-trust laws as a portion of the system. But I won't. They are broken.

"Retro toys may be better for children"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071123204938.htm

Saw a rumor yesterday that Lott was resigning.

Can't say I'm surprised, but I wonder what happened this past weekend that caused him to decide to resign *now?*

Hmmmmm.

bc

Kurosawaguy,
I suspect Washington has grown big tech/defense industries in recent years. More high salaries.

yellojkt,
I agree that international travel isn't necessarily a sign of wealth. I did a remarkably cheap and educational trip to Taipei last February, taking advantage of off-season air fares (wonderful ANA flight from Dulles to Tokyo) and hotel rates (evidently no one wants to travel before Chinese New Year).

Have a great time in London. At present, I suspect that going to Taipei is a lot cheaper. I've never visited London without encountering something fantastic. David Hare plays. Kathleen Turner and Helen Mirren on stage. Japanese composer Toru Takemitsu in person. A moving performance of Carousel, even if someone was working with a power drill somewhere in the theatre. Finding out that a highly successful London photographer loves Florida and has a Clyde Butcher book in his library. A two-kilogram box of lychees from Madagascar. The Painted Hall at Greenwich. Raleigh's monument, spotted more or less by accident. Eltham Palace, where a caretaker was planning a trip to Washington. The world's oldest potted plant. Codex Sinaiticus. A sumo wrestler padding through the Egyptian collection at the British Museum. Dennis Sever's House. John Soane's House. Daffodils.

I think Lott postponed retirement and got himself re-elected to ensure plenty of Katrina aid for Mississippi. But if he were even vaguely considering retirement once Katrina was taken care of, why did he take the position of whip?

CNN's article mentions new waiting periods for former lawmakers becoming lobbyists. The new limits would go into effect for anyone in office next year.

Coincidence? Or just plain coin?

*shrug*

I guess I should add that we have lots of genuinely, uncontestably rich retired people in our Florida county. Seemingly mostly terribly boring. I do like spotting the occasional Aston-Martin.

My London trip is a educational enrichment scam that I got suckered into as part of my kid's (very hot, not that that matters) English teacher's scheme to get a free second honeymoon as a tour organizer. It's a packaged group tour that I thought was astronomically priced until the dollar went into free-fall and now looks like a not bad deal. I'm hoping to go off the reservation a little and do some of those great things DotC recommends.

And mudge, I didn't mean you when I said "everybody". My imaginary friends are much more perceptive and astute about tax policy than the rather right wing circles I sometimes travel in.

Yes Dave, there has been a huge growth in defense and technology firms in NoVa. All trying to sell things to the Government.

Rich is what feels rich. I have the benefit of a full pension from my previous quasi-government job, some investments in mutual funds, about $30K so far in the current retirement plan, and SSI to look forward to. Rich? Nah. Yeah, we have that second house in Pittsburgh (which cost us $60K 5 years ago!), but we have a big equity line loan for the expenses we incurred remodeling our current domicile. So even with a $100K+ income, we ain't rich. OTOH, if and when we sell out here and move to the 'burgh (probaly in the next 2-3 years), we will be quite comfortable.

I think I can retire without any penalty on the pension around 2024. The kids will be between 30 and 37 years old by then. With any luck we should have 1 or even 2 out of the house by that time.

I actually don't like any of the criteria that Robert Frabk used, at least taken individually. I thought about saying something earlier but decided one rant was enough. But the guy is full of cow patties.

"You send your kids to private schools." Nonsense; what about Catholics who send their kids to parochial schools, even is they have to scrimp to the last nickel to do so? I know a few people who have sent their kids to private school but who aren't rich. And plenty of conserv. Xtians send their kids to religious schools without ever bing close to rich.

"You give to charity and attend charitable events." He11's bells, my wife and I do that. It ain't much and it ain't often...but we do it. The charity event is usually the Melwood annual banquet. $50 a head. So freaking what?

"And you travel." Jeez, EVERYBODY travels nowadays. WTF does this mean? Running down to Tiajuana? A long weekend in Nassau? A Girls Gone Wild weekend in Cancun? Gimme a break.

"You travel globally." OK, zackly how far do ya gotta go to be "global"? I went to London once, for a week. Does that make me rich?

It's just absurd.

yello, by all means get off the reservation if possible. London is a bit like a mini-Tokyo. Homework is very helpful (neither city is as chaotic as it appears to a first-time visitor and knowing something about the history is very helpful to knowing the present).

The Guardian has a great theater reviewer. Many of London's "lesser" sights are extremely rewarding, so don't hesitate to skip out of a Must See to find a gem. I was disappointed by my first visits to Westminster Abbey and St Pauls, but further visits paid off. It's worth seeing if you can get into the Houses of Parliament--it's worthwhile just to see the awesome Westminster Hall and the main lobby. By the way, the more I see of Parliament and Westminster, the more I like the way the "new" Parliament buildings (contemporary with the Capitol and sharing the same tile floors) fit in with the Hall and Abbey.

London Symphony usually plays on Sunday evening. Royal Court Theatre is adventuresome and has comfy seats. Then there's St Stephen Walbrook Church in the middle of the City of London, a domed church by Wren that survived. The present-day Altar Table is a very heavy stone piece by Henry Moore that made me a fan of his sculptures.

Yeah DoC, the military industrial complex is always with us. This is probably the only TV market in the country that runs ads for the F-22 Raptor. What do they think, I'm going to pony up $120 million for a stealth fighter with gas prices the way they are?

I love the ads for F-22s and such on the Metro.

Yeah... the person in charge of buying them is getting on the Orange Line in Dunn Loring.

I was googling for an apropos Tom Wolfe quote, but landed on this Ben Stein article on how being rich isn't all its cracked up to be.

http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/06/13/It-Aint-Easy-Being-Rich

I think he's being tongue in cheek. I hope he is.

This "What is rich?" question always makes me feel a bit schizophrenic. The median annual household income for our little frozen town is $11,875. I have diddled around professionally for 2+ years and make more than that with the odd research/consulting/grant-writing gig. Mr. F has 26 years in the military and does better on base pay alone than the 97k Obama and Clinton were talking about. Except for that whole risking life and limb thing the Army has been the perfect career. He will retire after 30 years, with a pension, and even allowing for erosion in benefits and increases in premiums retirees pay, health care that is better than most retirees can expect.

What differentiates us from others in our post-military phase is that he won't be seeking a second career and won't have to. Instead of going into "beltway bandit" purgatory he'll be through hiking the Appalachian trail. Martooni said it first, and others have joined in, but it bears repeating-the only true way to accumulate wealth is to live witin your means and save, save, save. When I look at what we've accumulated in retirement savings, other investments, and real estate owned free and clear we look pretty wealthy. However, he is a soldier and I am a teacher and we sometimes wonder what we might have earned if we had pursued other avenues. Not often though, we've both worked since we were 14 and through luck, or good home training, have always saved. We may work until we die, but it will only be at things we enjoy, and for me only in places where I don't have to wear heels or panty hose.

BTW Talk of the Nation is talking about this now. The definition of wealth they've proposed is $400K in annual income or 6 million in assets.

Me too, frosty. Heels always make my butt look bigger and pantyhose are such a pain.

Other gems, all within walking distance of each other: Dr. Johnson's House, the Norman church at Middle Temple (home of the Knights Templar, donchano) and the Roman Temple of Mithras.

Then you can stroll to Clerkenwell and have a look at the Charterhouse, ending up at Royal Festival Hall. Cool!

Frosti, it sounds like you are truly "rich" in all the ways that matter.

Lots of people around here retire into contracting. Many of them tell me that it is because they can't figure out what else to do with themselves. This, to me, is sad.

In one absolute sense, $97,000 is a lot of money: if you make significantly less. The median income around here is less than half that. However, I also believe getting into the distinction between "rich" and "middle class" involves questions of geography. A dollar goes farther in Oklahoma (economy is back up, Kurosawaguy) than on the coasts. Folks can sell a house in DC or California, pay cash for a larger place here, have money left over, and (comparatively speaking) live like kings.

I agree with Mudge's concerns about the "rich" categories as quoted in the article. There are plenty of people here who make the median income or less, send their kids to private (religious) schools, give to charities, and go to Mexico or other resort destinations occasionally. They also may have horses.

My definition of "rich" is not having to worry about paying for school, housing, food, health care, and retirement, AND still being able to buy something without noticing the cost. Of course, for me this is a purely theoretical state.

Also, again with Mudge, there are two meanings to "class". One involves money. The other, which may overlap with the first, involves culture.

I would like to add to Ivansmoms definition of class, it also involves respecting others, you can be rich and cultured but without class.

I think the disagreement over "class" is that we really don't like the term. It suggests divisions in society that cannot be crossed by marriage or even simple friendship. I prefer to omit the whole concept from my thinking.

Ivansmom and Mudge are so correct in "class" not just meaning money. It's no secret that passing on social capital is as important, or even more important, than passing on money for sustaining generations of relative wealth.

DoC -- daffodils in England would be rich indeed. One could pretend that one is Wordsworth or one is Dorothy, Wordsworth's sister, or if one's taste incline thusly, one could imagine oneself to be Coleridge.

(And we could say "one" and "oneself" without hearing too much laughter from one's friends.)

Head on over to Celebritology to see featured our very own Byoolin Boodler; check out the cultural fluss and muss while you are at it.

BTW: Liz Kelly's followers are pretty funny and nice to each other, as the comment threads reveal.

Speaking of retro toys, our middle daughter turns 12 in two weeks or so. Grandma and Grandpa bought her a Schwinn with a sprung front fork, the modern take on what is known in common circles as a cruiser. I think it's cool.

This might set 'Mudge rampaging. From the chat with Tony Bourdain:

Arlington, Va.: Is there anything worth watching in the way of cooking shows these days (in your opinion)? (I mean real shows where people actually cook, a la the great Julia Childs.)

Anthony Bourdain: I don't hate Ina Garten. She actually cooks "correctly". You actually learn how to do it right on that show.

I think Molto Mario was a great, instructional series. So, of course, the nitwits at FN cancelled it.

I love Jacques Pepin. I appreciate Nigella's taste in food--particularly pork fat, though she isn't a professional. And while frightened by Giada's large head, I think she cooks pretty well on that show. Oh..and I dig Lidia Bastianich.

From watching FN lately, I believe that an increasingly important criterion is cleavage. And Mario just wouldn't stoop to that.

Having spent the day washing down sawdust with a jug of paisano, here's what I think "being rich" is:

1. You enjoy your work so much that retirement is not an option you'll willing take.

2. You have people (be it family or friends) who love you unconditionally and you return the favor.

3. You have food.

4. You have a roof.

5. You have comfortable clothing.

6. You have a bed.

7. You're able to exercise your brain and have interested people around to share what comes out of it.

8. Dreams can be realized and made manifest.

9. When it's cold and rainy, you have hot chocolate available.

10. When it's cold and rainy (or snowy, even), you have someone to curl up with at night who wants to curl up with you.

Just my take.

Thanks, CP. Your commission check is in the mail.

And now for something completely different, and off-topic, natch: a minor survey, if you don't mind helping me...

To preserve the dubious integrity of my li'l quiz, I would ask that you email your responses to the survey to me at byoolin(at)gmail(dot)com. (All will be explained in due course, and I promise not to sell/give/loan/otherwise communicate your email addresses to others for any purpose whatsoever. I may email you back, though, to ask one question.)

Anyway, here's the thing:

****

There is a group of children outside. One of the children calls out, "car."

What are the children doing?

[Please mail your response to me at byoolin(at)gmail(dot)com. Grazie!]

Who was it that said, "Live long enough to be a burden on your kids."? Works for me! I've always felt guilty about belonging to the work-til-you-die club. I'm glad that I'm not alone. Just gotta make sure that I keep a boodle-friendly job. That way, I'll boodle 'til I die.

BTW, that whole death thing is considerably overrated.

I don't recognize any of the names Bourdain mentioned except for Giada and Nigella, neither of which I care much for. I must be out of date with the FN line-up.

Giada's head *is* unusually large.

I suddenly have an image in my mind of Withnail reading about it at breakfast.

I still smile whenever I recall Mudge's comment about Giada: Preparing pasta with a side of cleavage. Mario's show was good--my wife is REALLY unhappy he went away.

I love Ina Garten. IIRC she started learning to cook and throw great parties as an army spouse. Which reminds me, I am so behind on my Chinese New Year guest list. We are moving away from Mr. F's obligatory entertaining and having the party up here in the frozen north. Wow, I have colleagues, and consitituents to entertain, and peeps who should write checks for our community nonprofit. I must be rich!

CP,
My first visit to London was at daffodil time. By the time I got to Hampton Court, I'd seen vast numbers of the flowers. Someone mentioned that there was a vast daffodil field at the palace. I wandered over, expecting not to be impressed. Mistake.

A colleague is moving to Gloucester, Va. I need to find a treatise on daffodils.

Retro toys? IKEA sells nice wooden railroad. I have a Matchbox Land Rover Series on the office bookcase.

Good for you, DoC, to see archetypal daffies. I expect some very old species daffies next spring, Van Sion....a very lightly double that my hero Henry Mitchell loved. Of source, dear Mr. Mitchell was not faithful, as he adored a number of daffies:

Spellbinder
Bellsong
Chanticleer

come to mind immediately.

Hey, I don't get FN on my basic cable. But all this talk makes me think of Graeme Kerr or Graham Kerr, whom we adored as children. Wasn't he Canadian? (Can't wiki this as I am sharing a computer with a colleague; he thinks I am typing very serious, important, world-might-end stuff...)

Instructions for the ultimate retro toy. Frostson had one he wore out and it was retro in his day.
http://lennytaylor.freeyellow.com/Monkey.htm

CP-Kerr had a heart attack or something and now has a show emphasizing healthy cooking. Alas, the thrill is gone. You'll never get the can of lard out of my hands during pie season.

He was Canadian. And he was very funny, until he drank himself into liver disease, found religion, and came back on the air all po-faced and boring. Didn't last too long, after that.

He was one of the very first TV cooks to suggest that you could have a good time in the kitchen (not necessarily because of the booze) instead of being deadly serious about it all.

My heart still belongs to Madame Benoit, though.

Ha! Frosti has revealed my weakness! Sock monkeys!

The Galloping Gourmet was something I watched a lot as a child, I used to like how he would pop in the food in the top over and removed cooked food from the bottom, being young it took a few seasons before I understood how he did that.

What Yoki said about his post-heart attack show is very true, education but very very dull.

O

You know. For kids!

My mom still has Madame Benoit's cookbooks. And I can hear Mme. B's voice in my head, selling those "Pan-A-s'n-IC" microwave ovens...

Wikipedia says Graham Kerr regards himself as a Scot, but was born in London. He also had TV shows in Australia and New Zealand, as well as Canada and the USA. He's been all over the place! He lives in Mt Vernon, WA now - north of Seattle in the lovely Skagit Valley, which is resplendent with tulips and daffodils in the spring.

I think Mario's departure explains why FN did the "Next Iron Chef America" thing.

:-)

Binoculars are a great kids toy, for those in between age adventurous sorts. Or magnifying glasses.

And magnets. Kids and grownups can't have too many magnets, and Legos are THE BEST toy ever made.

Frosty, they are great. I'm knitting a sock right now that makes me think of sock monkey's. Dark grey with a cream coloured toe.

Sock Monkey would be such a good boodle handle.

dr-you have hit on the best toys ever. I am hoping Mr. F caught my hint about the binoculars I want for Christmas this year. Last year he bought me a Legos Mindstorms Robot kit. I'm coaching a FIRST Lego league team this year so all fall I've had an excuse to bring it out to play.

A besotten Scot finds Jesus and moves to the States.
We lose too many like that, something should be done. I think I'll send a message to the Hive Queen.

Giada has a big head? Funny, never noticed.

I accidentially deleted the graphic of all the Simpsonized boodlers. Can anyone help?

Frosty,
A lego league? Is that what it sounds like, a bunch of kids sitting around playing with legos? My ignorance is showing.

Boko, isn't "besotten Scott" kinda redundant, like "French-Canadian"? (I'd better head for the bunker. Just kidding, all you wonderful highlanders and lowlanders. After all, my wife is one, and she definitely isn't besotten.)

Legos are great, except when you are padding around at 3 a.m. in your bare feet and find one on the floor. Then, the whole house will be awake!

"Online calculators allow anyone to make an instant city-to-city cost-of-living comparison. One such Web site calculates that someone making $97,500 in Washington could live just as comfortably on $67,846 in Ames, Iowa."

Would you write: "Researchers have analyzed relative costs, allowing an instant city-to-city cost-of-living comparison. One such researcher calculates that someone making $97,500 in Washington could live just as comfortably on $67,846 in Ames, Iowa."?

I think that your editor would require you to cite the specific researcher. Similarly, you should cite the specific website.

Every child should have:

a sock monkey
a little red wagon
legos
a toy lawn mower or other push toy that makes lots of noise while delighting child/giver and irking parents
freedom to pull the pots and pans out on the floor and bang on them with wooden spoons
a flashlight of his/her own
binoculars
a bug box or ant farm
a chance to make rock candy or observe water evaporate and leave salt behind (preferably both)
books, books, books
plastic army men, a magnifying glass, a hot southern sun, and time to experiment
materials to build a raft and a river to test it out

Hello,friends. It's bad for me today. We have a dirty little secret here, and now it's hit home.

God loves us so much more than we can imagine through Him that died for all, Jesus Christ.

Cassandra, I'm so sorry. Is there anything I/we can do to help?

Don-FIRST Lego League is actually about legos and robots.

This year's tournament challenge description:

"POWER PUZZLE

Alternative Energy Resources - Meeting the Global Demand
How do our personal energy choices to do things like heat our homes, fuel our cars, charge our cell phones, power our computers, or even download music to our iPods impact the environment, economy, and life around the globe? Which resources should we use and why? Explore how energy production and consumption choices affect the planet and our quality of life today, tomorrow, and for generations to come. Can FIRST LEGO League teams find the ultimate solution to this global Power Puzzle?"

Teams build robots to do challenge tasks then compete head to head and in presentations of their research on the challenge and an evaluation of their robot's programming. I have a 4th-6th grade team; two boys and two girls who rock!

Here's a link to the MN parent organization.
http://www.hightechkids.org/?2-1-1000

Okay, you guys, I'm trying to stay calm. Really. (deep breaths)

I just switched from Covad DSL (which was providing speeds, oh, just below dial-up, so I ditched them) to Comcast high-speed internet service. Comcast is the only game in town here and in my building. So, I'm using Eudora as an email program and for several years it's been fine. But it's no longer supported by Qualcomm and since I got Comcast, it's no longer working. I've changed the incoming and outgoing server instructions according to Comcast's specifications, and I'm not getting emails (except, of course, for spam) -- at all. I can send out emails on one of my email domain signatures, but not on one of the others (which is also important). I'm NOT happy. At all. (grrr)

So, if any of my fellow boodlers wants to help me out I'd be ever so grateful.

Thankee.

Rampage? Moi? Yoki, I don't know how you could suggest such a thing. Anyway, I agree with everything Bourdain said.

(I get a chuckle out of Ina Garten. I think every other show she does has the same following dialog and subtext: "Hi, I'm Ina Garten. Today Jeffrey is at work and I've invited over some of my incredibly gay interior decorator friends for lunch, and we're having....")

I make jokes about cleavage, too, but I think some of you may be just a little *too* focused on it. I happen to like Guy Fieri a lot (especially his Diners/Dives show), plus Tyler Florence (now that he got rid of Jack who was cute but tediously pretending to be dumb as a treestump), and Bobbie Flay, and Emeril. And Alton Brown is a god. And I liked Mario a lot, and ya know what? Not a darned bit of cleavage anywhere.

I think Cat Cora is attractive, but she scares me: she could beat me arm-wrestling. And shot-put. And arc-welding. And she has a killer's eyes. I like Ellie Krieger, and she's as demurr as a parson's wife. And she's slightly nasal, but in a sexy way that I like. I like Sandra Lee's methods and style, except for the last 5 minutes when she goes all Martha Stewart. She's probably the only Food Network star whose thong, garter belt and garters are color-coordinated to match her window drapes and potholders. (Yes, she wears garters and a garter belt. Don't ask me how I know. I don't know how I know. I just know. One can tell these things.) The woman knows how to accessorize. And Rachel's fun and I would have liked to take her to the highly chaperoned MYF hayride in 11th grade, and afterward have impure thoughts. But of the five, Giada, Cat, Rachel, Sandra or Ellie, Ellie's the one I'd marry. You can tell Giada and Sandra are high-maintenance, probably Rachel, too. Ellie's the keeper. No question about it.

The other show I like a lot is America's Test Kitchen, which is on PBS, not FN. The host, Chris Kimball, is a stick, the nerdy kid in school you didn't like--but you learn a lot on that show and Bridget Lancaster really knows her stuff. But his monthly magazines, Cook's Illustrated and Country Cooks are both really top-notch. I read CI cover to cover.

Regarding retro kids toys: Lincoln logs. For boys that's it: Lincoln logs and Tinker-Toys. That's all any kid needs. And maybe an Erector Set. That'll hold 'em until puberty. And then they can start watching Giada and Rachel Ray and having impure thoughts concerning prosciutto.

I'd bet that Mario Batali has a much bigger cup size than Rachel Ray.

I had Lincoln Logs, Lego, and Erector sets as a kid. I would have traded them all for my son's collection of K'nex. You can build anything with those.

Just FYI on the XO Laptop giving program. I have checked this out thoroughly, with help from some students.

You can buy an sturdy, Linux-kitted, lap top for your use, while at the same time donating one to a child in the developing world. The program in-country links children with computers through responsible and effective programs like schools, orphanages, clinics, and youth centers.

400 plus change for shipping. You get a 299 tax deduction also. Check this out.

http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/explore.php

So, I will enter the laptop world thusly.

Mudge, You know, I just learned recently that Sandra Lee was born and raised in Sumner, Washington about five miles from where I was. Oh, the wasted possibilities.

Mudge, "MYF" is for Methodist Youth Fellowship, right? Oh my. That group and God Squad (I kid you not) at Main Street Presbyterian were full of the cool kids.

However, our CYO dances were quite the thing. We had them every Friday night. For MYF and God Squad, well, somehow dancing every week was over the top.

That was me....meant to say, Mudge, that Rachel Ray would likely have been at the CYO dance...so you would have had to infiltrate or convert or enter in some other clever way.

It has been my experience that the ultimate kid toy, it the large empty box, provide crayons, markers, or paint and the kids will find a way to occupy themselves for hours on end.

Cassandra I hope you are OK.

I went to a couple CYO dances in my time.

Those rumors about Catholic Schoolgirls are grossly exaggerated.

Huh? I don't understand what Cassandra is saying. Cassandra, what do you mean?

Whatever it is, Cassadra we are thinking of you and praying to where you need the prayers directed.

I just went back up and reread martoonis excellent post from about 3 or 3:30. You nailed it.

So much is want, and very little is really need. You are poor if you have to scrape to get the needs done, everything above that is doing pretty darn fine.

I've got an erector set.

My mom used to keep her pots and pans, with a couple of plastic spoons, within easy reach of the children and grandchildren.

And when she had the grandkids around the house, she included a container of large rubber bands to add to the pot to cook. The little ones loved to stir the "spaghetti."

My parents watched my kids while I was at work, and I loved coming into the house in the evening to find my mom in the kitchen fixing dinner and my little one sitting on the floor, surrounded by pots, banging or stirring--both the baby and the grandmother happy as can be.

There was so much love in that room.



Cassandra... are you OK?

College Parkian,
I had to google Henry Mitchell.

My northern gardening experience is mostly in Wyoming and Portland, Oregon. In the former, salinity and cold were problems in one town, cool growing season in another (but excellent irrigation water). Wyoming was surprisingly good for bulbs. Tulips could be made to think they were at home in Turkestan and an experiment with Camassia went well. Asiatic hybrid lilies thrive, but I've been beaten in that department by a colleague who had a fine time with them in Fairbanks.

Here in Florida, it's time to buy Hippeastrums, let them flower, then install them in the yard.

An Etch-a-Sketch could keep me occupied for hours. Come to think of it, it still can.

TBG, I have a video of my older child on the front patio, "playing" a pot and singing. She would often go outside and set up a band. Younger child creates roads, forts, house for stuffed animals and cars with videos.

Cassandra, hope you're ok. Let us know if we can help.

Good article on Bono and his lobbying efforts for Africa:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/25/AR2007112501535.html?hpid=features1&hpv=national

"It is a little odd and eerie to have an Irish rock star recite the Declaration of Independence like it's a great poem, but it is a great poem. And that poetry is what's missing from political dialogue right now. And this country is parched, parched from the lack of such political lyrics, and I'm going in saying, 'This is who you are.' "

Cassandra, I hope everything is OK with you this evening.

I would add to those that have suggested a cardboard box is one of the best toys ever.

I also used to play with a popsicle stick (usually one I found rather than being fortunate enough to have actually eaten the treat surrounding said stick), pretending it was a car, a spaceship, a pistol, a communicator ("Kirk to Enterprise, we're in trouble. Send down a security detail, and make sure they're wearing red shirts."), a flashlight, all kinds of things. Sharpen one end on the sidewalk, and you have a knife or a sword.

Used to use the popsicle sticks as catapults for pebbles, and as a bat for popsicle baseball with a wad of scrap paper.

And if I found another stick and a wad of used chewing gum on the ground - heaven! Now I have a jet airplane!

I see that 80s rock band Quiet Riot's singer Kevin DuBrow was found dead today at his home in Vegas...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21978302/?GT1=10547

Scotty, I know you're feelin' it too.

The Noize, I mean.

bc

Let's not forget another basic toy... the Little Metal Car. My son called them LMCs.

He started with my sister's old Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars but quickly built his own collection since the were pretty cheap, as toys go. He'd spend entire afternoons just lining them up--in traffic or in parking lots... Can you tell he grew up in Fairfax?

We had bought a huge wooden dollhouse for him when he was little and once we'd made the furniture (out of blocks, tp rolls, etc) he spent the rest of the time parking cars on its front porch and roof.

Before they discovered video games, both of my children really enjoyed these foam blocks. I kid you not. Because they had a high coefficient of friction and were light, you could make the most intricate structures out of them. We bought a double set.

Yep, bc, I saw that article too. *SIGH*

There sure is a lot going on here tonight.

In reference to the Who's Rich topic, I do have a link to a vintage Tom Shroder editorial on the subject. I'll go find that. In the meantime, boko999, here is the Simpsons collage:

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/VRgc%24X1HBzvwJV3QSXL1kQ%3D%3D68031

TBG, please don't get me started on LMCs.

I still have... far more than I should.
Probably have a half-dozen on my desk at work.

Played with 'em as a kid, wrecked a lot of them, not realizing that my Johnny Lightnings, Matchboxes, and Hot Wheels would be worth some serious coin 40 years later (Why, oh, why did I do that dance on the Gurney Eagle, the Shelby Indy Turbine, the Lotus 49 and Lotus Turbine? What was I thinking? What have I done to the Red Baron and Evil Weevil? Aak!).

bc

Here's the Shroder piece, from 1989:

http://www.tropicfan.com/Filthy%20Rich%20by%20Tom%20Shroder.htm

Still relevant, after all these years.

= = =

Regarding simple toys for kids: I vote for just letting the kids go outside. They can do a lot with sticks, rocks, plants, dirt, and found objects. Remember mud pies? Does anybody let their kids make mud pies any more?

The ultimate toy that begins at infancy and last a lifetime - a ball; has many variations, take your pick.

Mr. Padouk, you just didn't know the *right* Catholic schoolgirls!

What a day to visit! I hope Cassandra is OK.

Who is rich? I grew up among the very rich. My parents took us to the symphony, the opera, museums, restaurants.

Our toys were considered vintage even then. When we didn't go somewhere dressy, we flew kites, built dams with rocks. We spent weekend nights playing Master Mind, Othello, and Boggle.

We came to the Sates a few times, and enjoyed it tremendously. Our favorite part was the trip to Dalton's to buy books. We'd mail ourselves these packs that would get home weeks after our vacation had ended.

When we got older, we noticed other kids had other toys, Ataris and stuff.And they had alligator shirts, shoes with the swoosh, and cars with electric everything. They also came to the States every year, sometimes more than once a year.

In some ways we lived like the very rich, among the very rich, and in other ways we didn't keep up with the Uribes.

All three of us kids got an education and a contribution to our first homes' down-payment. I don't begrudge my parents any of it, even if I had to admit I didn't know how to play PacMan to my entire 6th grade class. In 1983, that was no small feat.

I was richer than the other kids. My parents cared enough about me to sacrifice a few niceties for me.

Can someone explain why one needs thousands of centifuges to enrich uranium?
Why not run one a thousand times?

Thanks a bea c. I asked the last questions without refreshing the page so I didn't see your response to my earlier plea.

kbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkbkb

The way I see it on the grand scheme of things, if you have a throne to perch upon and contemplate life's events, and when you are finished you can get up and flush, well, you're doing better than poor.

Now if you can afford to pay somebody else to polish it, consider yourself rich.

I'm with kbert (and, obviously, boko999) on this one. A little sunscreen, a nearby water supply, free access to any non-sharp tools that may be required and a kid is good to go for hours.

In some ways, my childhood was ideal. When we lived in Switzerland, we had the mountain (complete with rocks, woods and alpine streams [not to mention promenading nuns]), meadows with goats, apple trees and berry bushes, and the lake. We had fishing rods and Swiss Army knives. You can catch and haul some fish up the mountainside, build a dam in a stream to keep them alive, cut some wood, hunt some mushrooms, light a fire, eat your fish and mushrooms (and then practice extreme woodcraft of the 9-year-old variety), put out the fire, hit the berry patch on the way home, be forced into the bath and then eat muesli and fresh wild berries and yogurt for supper, and go to bed in the full knowledge that the day was well spent.

Sometimes the farmers gave us apples, or fresh milk, or just-pressed soft cider. That was an especially good day.

Of course, nowadays, no 9-year-old would be sent out with sharps and hots unsupervised, but it was fine. Better than fine. Almost perfect. We had few accidents. Bro2 got a fish lure embedded in his head and we had to walk into town to the clinic to have it cut out (me holding the rod in just the right position that there was slack in line so as not to hurt him -- why didn't we cut the line???); I fell into the stream and had to make my way down the mountainside freezing to change; Bro1 sledded into a tree and we all had to wait until he came to before going home, but other than that, it was great.

What depressing lot of comments. Try living on SSI. I'm coming up on the Seven-OO. The ten cent bullet keeps coming up in my thoughts to spare my much younger wife from obsine medical bills

>I had Lincoln Logs, Lego, and Erector sets as a kid.
Remember mud pies? Does anybody let their kids make mud pies any more?>

I and my brothers had m all. Even when my Dad didn't have'nt a job a as a carpenter durning the raning season. As a kid the best times were the mud ball-grass ball fights. We used to have mud/grass fights with the brothers across the sreeet who's (whom's?)dd had a garage to keep cars running '41 - '44. My dad sold his '34 Buick that tookus across the west from Kansas to Cailiforina with a matress on the to top to buy a '37 Chevy when he got a job on Shasta Dam in 1940. We were in hog heven with a full time job inide the power house where the work wasn't stopped because of the rain (look it it LindaLo, The most rain in the history of Northern Califorina)

hahaha, Pat. You should look up Vancouver sound-poet bill bissett; specifically the poem that to me sums up the Canadian experience: A Warm Place to S**t.

Yoki, your childhood sounds cool.

My brother once rolled off the roof of our house. He landed in the bushes and was horribly scratched. No way to hide from my parents we'd climbed out the window while they were out. We used to play "fort" up there, and our weapons were plastic spoons. The best catapults ever.

Oh ya, a bea c. Not all of it was that cool, but some of it was.

The other thing we did in the Alps was wait for the biggest snowstorms; this meant that the snow reached the second-storey eaves, but the heat of the house would melt it concavely on the ground floor. So the trick was to climb out a bedroom window in the middle of the night (around 9:00 pm at that age) and jump off the roof into the drifts, which would then break off and send you sliding down the melted bits, but break your fall. As I recall, that was the occasion of the only broken bones in all our adventures (Bro3 and me).

When I moved to Alberta as a teenager I hung out with some ranch-boys, who were much much wilder than we. They shot gophers and of course, one of them shot a brother clean through the calf. They were all sworn to secrecy, until the flesh-wound became infected and they had to confess. That story still makes me laugh, because I *so* understand the injury, the pact, and the confession.

I live just about a mile from where I grew up. When we moved there in 1960, we were on a dirt road and the main road that leads to our road was also unpaved. We wandered... and wandered. On our bikes, on foot. We fished in ponds and creeks and built forts.

We've lived in our current neighborhood since my son was born, but you could say my kids lived in two completely different neighborhoods. When he was little, there were no kids the same age as my son, so when we were home he played inside with his LMCs or outside with his baby sister.

By the time my daughter was old enough to ride a bike, the street had filled with kids her age. She had the same kind of childhood I did... she just didn't wander as far. We live on a dead end (a "cul de sac" to be exact); we have a creek in the back and the neighborhood pool across the street.

What more could a kid want?

A B C, my friends and I got pretty good at archade gvideo games with a little help from a 1/8 drill bit, a power drill from my dad's workshop, 18 inches of thread from my mom's sewing cabinet... and a few quarters. Hahaha! Hours of fun for under a buck in the early 80's with a trick that I'm sure had been around since the 50's.

That's not stealing, is it?

And the old saying still applies: It's all great fun till someone gets hurt.

Medical bills ain't fun!

I gotta say, I am loving all these memories, whether they be of Boodler childhoods or our childrens' childhoods. Please to keep posting.

My version of "rich" is enough to work how I want and always have money for medical bills. And for gas. If you can't have perfect health, you better have wealth to support it.

Otherwise, I grew up in a large family with hand-me-downs and I was working since around 8 years old (shovelling sidewalks, newspapers, etc.). Not hard, but I was a kid. I was volunteering or working odd errands over the summer by age 12.

As for RD-- I never could do an afterschool job, that IS bad for grades.
I knew a boy in HS who really needed to work. I never asked the details but I had the sense that his father had died or divorced.

We rode the same bus with this profligate "wannabe male model" (I swear, that sleazy "swinger" on Fraiser looked exactly like him, grown up). Both had the same name.
Poor boy who had to work something like 15 hours a week hated Rich boy, who got 200 dollars a week allowance and usually blew it all on clothing and was incredibly shallow.

Until poor boy talked about rich boy, I wasn't really so aware of how spoiled the kids there were until my interpreter let me know one of the kids in my classes were complaining that his parents wanted him to get a *shudder* summer job to help pay for college. He went on for like a few minutes.

So, while it's good to have a kid do biology camp and all that, summer and weekend work is good as well.

I loved my first full-time summer job-- an internship originally intended for college students but which I was ready to grab when the offer came down the line for high school students instead.

That job beat biology camp anyday, and helped establish that I really did like biology as a career rather than just an academic subject. And I got paid-- minimum wage, but I got paid.

And then I flipped burgers. And bused tabled. And got another internship. And in college, I tutored.

I have always believed I'd work until I died. Now I sometimes doubt that.

However, I'm with Cassandra... when you stop working, you become disconnected from the flow of things.

This is particularly acute for people who have problems meeting people socially, such as deaf people. They need the regular encounters and established relationships to maintain and increase their support network. And money helps too.

This may be why, as RD notices, too many people retire from the military, find themselves quite young, healthy, and in the habit of working, and go into a second career such as contracting or consulting.

The military is a social network into itself, and it must feel odd to lose that, if you don't have something already lined up to keep you busy and involved with life.

Yoki, not to boodlehog yet again... were you born with the name "Heidi?"

I always wanted to experience a rural childhood. I grew up in town, but we did have cows nearby for a while, parks, and a bike trail, and a nice town. I walked a lot, especially with my dog.

As a matter of fact, because I hated the bus schedules and the length of the ride, I often would just walk the 2+ miles home from the subway after work. I kept it up whenever I felt like it, especially in the summer.

But not if I was sleepy-- I needed all my wits to avoid being hit by cars backing suddenly out of driveways or turning corners because of all the shrubbery shrouding corners.

Enter Wilbrodog. This is probably why I really longed for a rural childhood... fewer streets and traffic. Oh. And ponies, and wildlife of course.

I'm hearing some stuff here, that isn't quite right.

I have been working for pay since I was 14. Working to get some parental-approval since way before that (4?). Being happy about happy times doesn't mean that one doesn't work for them or know hard times.

Just sayin'

And clearly Pat and I live in different countries; in Canada and Switzerland it is still good fun when somebody gets hurt, 'cause both countries have socialized medicine.

Actually, I mostly worked so I could meet the hot girls who worked at McDonald's. Turned out about as well as those crazy Catholic Schoolgirls at CYO.

And speaking of Canadians, check out the last sentence in this story. Just don't get all smug-like over it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/25/AR2007112501492.html

Wilbrod, no. I was born in Ottawa (Capital City of Canada) from two parents born in Napanee. We moved to Switzerland when I was 8 years old, and lived there until I was 12 years old. Then Edmonton, Calgary, Kingston, Montreal, Montreal, Edmonton, London, Prague, Paris, Monatreal, Edmonton, Calgary, Kingston.

Then I went to University, and lived in Kingston, Montreal, Edinburgh, London, Prague, Kingston.

Then I travelled, and worked in Paris, London, Delhi, and Barcelona.

Then I married, and lived in Kingston, Montreal, Calgary, Revelstoke, Calgary.

Now I'm planning a move to Dublin or points west, except that the healthcare system sucks, so perhaps I'll spend some time in Canada and some vacations in Ireland.

Mine was an urban childhood, with retreats to the rural when I went to see my grandparents. We walked to and from school, which was about three quarters of a mile, and to the park, which was three blocks. Everybody watched out for everybody else's kids, so there was no getting away with anything we shouldn't do.

I remember a kid my age who lived down the street would come to borrow my encylopedias. Her family had a boat and a place at the lake. So...who was rich? Family priorities are different, I suppose, but I always felt superior to that child.

Here's a fun link to call it a day with. Enjoy!

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/opinion/walthandelsman/blog/2007/11/animation_baby_boomers.html

Man, the Post's website has these strange pictures of Gore and Bush forcibly grinning together, celebrating Gore's Noble Prize.

Great, funny captions could be had. Bush looks like he is thinking two possible things: a) who is this guy and why am I here? or b) Bono likes me better than you.

kbertocci asked about mud pies ---

my son told me recently that he was bathing his five year old daughter and three year old son before dinner and couldn't understand how they got so much dirt in their hair.

"Oh," says his daughter, "we were taking dirt showers!"

(close enough to mud pies!)

Yoki, so, basically, you are a home body?

Yup. If I understood you properly. Probably not.

Nellie!

Mine was a middle class childhood in a small suburb that went from having many open lots and small forested areas to fully housed. It was a wonderful place to grow up with places to explore, a lovely treed area on the hillside overlooking the water was great for tobagganing in winter, lots of ponds to skate on in winter and even the bay when it was cold enough to freeze over. There were parks and marshes and the Royal Botanical gardens all in walking/biking distance.

I do not remember more than a few toys I had as a child but I remember the freedom I had to explore and wander the community.

My kids can still explore all those same areas and parks but the freedom to wonder off and find a secluded shelter on a hillside bank overlooking the water just isn't possible in today's society. If I could my kids just one thing it would be the ability to go out the door after breakfast with the luxery of being able to explore freely the world around them.

dmd, that was beautiful. Thank you.

Nature: the world's best retro toy, but one that would never pass consumer safety boards.

My family was poor when I was growing up but I felt we were middle class and had class. What is middle class and to have class, I know not but I felt good about us.

For half a year, I go to school in the afternoon and the other half, morning. When I was in afternoon session, I was a home alone kid in the morning. My older sister was at school. My parents and other sisters went rubber tapping. My sisters gave me very spe