Let it expire--its unnecessary. We have a FISA Court. Use it!

due to monitoring of my words & thoughts & the nature of the topic / challenge ...

i am speechless

I am proud of the House Democrats who realize that the phone companies should have asked for warrants, and/or that President Bush should have given the House the confidential papers requested (but Bush stonewalled).

I wish the Senate Democrats were just as strong.

There's no valid reason why the campaigning members of congress could not have voted on this or any other bill regardless of where they are. This isn't the 19th century. Retaining the "body in the room" rule for political games and power plays is not what democracy is about. Everyone has a right to have their member vote in their behalf, yeah or nay, no cop out "present" allowed. Each candidate needs to say whether the would support a bill removing this archaic rule from the books.

Bravo for the House! Granting retroactive immunity for violation of fundamental privacy right guaranteed by the Bill of Rights is an outrageous idea. The Revolution for Independence from Britain was triggered by exactly that sort of privacy invasion, among other things. If the House caves in to Bush's notion that the law is whatever he says it is, we will have lost much of what so many people died for.

You wrote:

"In a surprise twist, a 21-day extension of the terrorist surveillance law failed decisively on the House floor this afternoon, making it increasingly likely that the law will be allowed to expire on Friday."

Really? Think about it.

No Plan B? Then why did the Rules Committee meet at 4pm today (2/13) and vote for special handling of FISA legislation tomorrow (2/14)?

http://rules.house.gov/SpecialRules_details.aspx?NewsID=3224

COMMITTEE ACTION: REPORTED BY RECORD VOTE OF 9-4 on Wednesday February 13, 2008. [...] It shall be in order at any time on the legislative day of Thursday, February 14, 2008, for the Speaker to entertain motions that the House suspend the rules relating to a bill addressing foreign intelligence surveillance.
- - U.S. House of Representatives, Committee on Rules

Fire Ben Pershing and hire Goober in his place. Your reporter obviously hasn't learned the magic power of the google yet.

I think Israelis and Ismaelis are laughing at us pretty hard these days. We don't need extreme religious activists to terrorize our populus when we have President Bush.

I really wonder if he has scared the House of Representatives into submission this time ? Will they vote as reactions to internal terrorism threats by the the Comedian-in-Chief, if so the terrorists are indeed winning.

Can't wait for lil Wasserman-Shultz to tear into them again. Now she has true grit, pay attention all you girliemen out there in California.

How much Damage can he do,Dear? Give him the keys to the Crawford and my best Clubs.The Boy skipped adolesence working in Gran Dads oil Lease Scam.And let him take that super snooper Walkie Talkie Listen in thing.Night Night lovey.

How refreshing to find Democrats in the House refuse to cave in for once - though, given their record so far, I would not be surprised if they join their spineless, gutless Democratic Senate colleagues and pass the bill by Friday.

'Protect America Act'? Rubbish. It should be renamed the 'Kill American Liberties Act'. 'The Patriot Act' should be renamed 'The Greatest Betrayal of the American People in History by Congress Act'.

If retroactive immunity is sustained then those brave soldiers who have lost their lives defending our Constitution will have been betrayed by an imperial president and cowardly and treasonous congress.

Goodbye 4th amendment. Hello 3rd world rule by decree. Time to use the 2nd amendment?

To anyone who thinks letting it expire is a good idea:

At least if there is a framework in place for the Executive Branch to follow, then there is the opportunity to hold them accountable. No FISA = No rules whatsoever, a return to the pre-FISA days. And I'm not sure that Congress has another Church Commission on tap to dig us out of THAT mess.

NO retroactive immunity for the telecoms! The House has to defend the Constitution, because the Senate obviously doesn't care. I hope that the Democrats finally step up and tell the President that his plan to scuttle the Bill of Rights is over. Please, everyone, email or call your congressman this morning!

Praise to the Demnocrats who voted no. There is no need for this extension and the "national security" argument is nothing but lies being foisted on an ignorant and confused public. The companies who violated our civil liberties should be exposed to civil and criminal penalties.

in reply to BobT | February 14, 2008 07:46 AM

FISA (1978 and "modernized" dozens of times since then) is not about to expire. The law that might be about to expire is PAA (2007), which was the most recent "modernization" of FISA.

Of course, since the Addington-Cheney-Bush Administration claims that there's an eternal war, and that they therefore have eternal wartime power to ignore all federal laws, and since the assembled eunuchs in Congress aren't going to use their Constitutional power to do anything about that, what does it matter what the law is?

We should be outraged that the terrorists are using our own telecommunications network to attack us. They have tapped into our network. The government and the telecommunications agencies worked together to protect. They deserve credit for that and not this knee jerk criticism I keep reading from those who would scare us by having us believe our privacy and constitutional rights are under attack. Congress needs to act now to pass the Senate version to get us from copper based rotary phone surveillance to wireless, fiber, and digital light speed communications.

The government, our government, has to be able to listen in when a terrorist in Pakistan, for example, picks up a Blackberry or a Nokia and makes a phone call. In the digital age those calls can be routed through the United States. The government cannot be required to run down to the local magistrate if you will every time a phone which is then thrown away afterwards is used. Add to that foreign languages, dialects, and encryption, and the sheer volume of calls, and the government has real challenge on its hands to try to intercept and decipher these calls in a timely manner and to make sense of their meaning.

we the people need to get rid of this congress vote anyone but the incumbent in the next election.these people just go along with whatever the boy king wants.Pelosi and Reed need to be impeached along with bush and cheney

in reply to graham | February 14, 2008 09:13 AM

If the government and telecoms are simply eavesdropping on foreign communications, then why are the NSA signal splitters placed in purely domestic switching locations, and NOT at the cable heads where the overseas fibers enter the US?

This is the equivalent of saying that you're enforcing the Customs laws by opening every domestic letter in the post office.

It's simply not credible, except to cretins like you. Enjoy your kool-aid.

Alex, when you post comments such as yours you just bring great discredit upon yourself.

The presidential candidates should have been required to vote on this issue since it hits right at the core of much that is going on and being fought over. It's stupid to not let them vote from wherever they are. Trillions of dollars can be exchanged by secure wireless communication. Requiring members of congress to have their body in the room to vote is 19th century. We don't require them to get there on horseback. We shouldn't require them to be there to have their vote included, representing their constituents. We need to know not what they say their vote would have been had they been there but what it is. Retaining the "body in the room" rule is nothing more than power politics and has no place in an open democracy.

I was in tears when I read how the Senate Democrats folded (again) in voting for this law. I can only pray the House does not give in. Why does Congress think we voted in a Democratic majority (such as it is) in the last election? Why are they so afraid to stand up for the average American? Just when are they going to grow a spine????

The following was posted by Bob on February 13th at 07:28 PM

Let it expire--its unnecessary. We have a FISA Court. Use it!

IN REGARD TO BOB'S COMMENT, I SAY:
DITTO

"Graham" (a reference to my name?) pretends that FISA hasn't already been modernized many times since 1978.

For instance, one of those modernizations happened in 2001:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011026-5.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 26, 2001
President Signs Anti-Terrorism Bill
Remarks by the President at Signing of the Patriot Act, Anti-Terrorism Legislation
The East Room
9:49 A.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good morning and welcome to the White House. Today, we take an essential step in defeating terrorism, while protecting the constitutional rights of all Americans. With my signature, this law will give intelligence and law enforcement officials important new tools to fight a present danger [...] Surveillance of communications is another essential tool to pursue and stop terrorists. The existing law was written in the era of rotary telephones. This new law that I sign today will allow surveillance of all communications used by terrorists, including e-mails, the Internet, and cell phones. [...]
- - President Bush, 10/26/2001

I agree that they should just let it expire, but unfortunatley the Democratic leadership is too cautious to let that happen. My recommendation: go into conference with the Senate to revise the bill do deny immunity from prosecution to communications companies who broke the law, but cap the liability at say $250,000 per case.

The candidates should have been required to vote on this bill. And they should have been able to do that from wherever they are. Yeah or nay, no "present" cop out or being conveniently somewhere else. The 19th century rule is due for "change". Everyone claims to be for "change". Will they support "changing" the body in the room to vote rule? It involves far more than just this one bill. Voters have the right to be represented...at all times. We need to get rid of this rule that has nothing to do with anything but the power to schedule votes around who's in town and who isn't.

Why does Bush need Boehner and McConnell when he's got Pelosi and Reed? Who is more incompetent and inept?

T

The paraonia that has seized all the politicians in the USA after 9/11 is slowly assisting the decay of democratic freedoms in the USA and wouldmake it resemble the tyrannical setup under the communists in the USSR.The existing wings of government for intelligence both internal and external should be enough.Why go rapidly towards an autocratic state?

At MOST risk is George W. Bush.

If he and his phone company snoopers aren't given immunity.

BUSH, along with the others, could be found guilty of the criminal activity he
is guilty of.

Staying his trip to Africa? Well, yes.

Here is again my comment since the first time was scrubbed down.
I think Bobbette says it well when states:
"due to monitoring of my words & thoughts & the nature of the topic / challenge ...

i am speechless"
Hurray!

This bill has nothing to do with protecting President Bush. Congress is the one who can oppose him by impeachment if that was the issue. Chairwoman Pelosi has never allowed impeachment proceedings to come to the floor and will not, even though she promised that at the last election.

This a great day Bro's, if our congressional Democrats dont cave in to the Rights wing Fear Machine it truly means the Era of Fear is nearing it's end. This is the most intrusive and uneeded attack on the Freedoms and Liberties that our beloved Forefathers granted us. The Right to privacy. It may prove costly and dangerous but freedom and liberties are not the currency of security. We should not have surrender to fear and hate at the expense of liberty. Hang tough my fellow Democrats together or surely we will hang alone.

Time to remove the disturbed and nutcase lying President George Walker Bush by Impeachment and remove Vice President Dick Cheney by the same means by Impeachment.

So the spoilt little President won't go to Africa until he get his way on the passing of his bill, what a spoilt sad little man. He is like a six year old in a grown mans body and retorts to pouting and threatens when he doesn't get his way.

Good riddance in eleven months to the most hated and incompetent President who has ever served in the Whitehouse. But then again George Walker Bush never won in 2000 as his brother Jeb the Scumbag Bush was Governor of Florida and helped him steal the election through voter fraud. As well Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, I Scooter Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and many others from the PNAC were all waiting for an occurrence such as 9/11 to get the PNAC under way. Check out who the PNAC are by checking the following link and as well how many of their members are Zionist Jews.

link: http://www.newamericancentury.org/
members link: http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

The House does not need a plan B. This surveillance law is bad law. It was only a substitute for the lack of efficient work by the FBI.

If the US is to be evenly remotely protected from terrorism then the FBI is going to have to come out from hiding behind their electronic paraphernalia.

Don't tell me the House Dems have FINALLY grown a spine. Nah, they will cave into this lamest of lame duck Presidents out of fear again. This facist bill will not expire, I fear and Bush will once again get his way. Please, please, please let it expire, never to be seen again. It is another stain on our nation. Bush, go to Africa and please remain there !!!

Can you hear me now?

Just by coincidence as McCain is beginning his campaign based on national security we have the 9/11 guys trial, several years late nut re-instilling fear of terrorists, the release of a "new" threat assessment saying further attacks are coming and the announcement of Iraqi progress in unifying their country. Re-instilled fear and at least the facade of progress justifying our presence in Iraq. How convenient. Just as a store happens to get Halloween candy in just before Halloween. Many will suffer and die from lack of medical care for treatable illnesses but, by golly, they weren't hurt by terrorists.

So how long will it take this time for the spineless Dems to cave. Don't they know that the GOP are basically fascist and will never put the nation ahead of the party. The Nazis did these same stunts while a minority in thier government. Pelosi, plese pick up a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".

Hooray for the House Democrats. Just let the whole act expire and require Bush to go the FISA courts and get warrants as he should have been doing in the first place. Enough of the Bush dictatorship!!

I agree completely with "Bob, whose post was at 7:28 PM on the 13th", before Keith Olberman's "Special Comment" about the shrub's call for fear YET AGAIN the lies and distortions he has fed this country and the 30% that supports his terrible (for regular Americans)agenda eats it up as if it were candy..
Folks we should fear the fanatic Islamist EXTREMISTS. But we should also remember our Constitution, and what America has been for over 220 years. A beacon of liberties, freedoms and protection for us and all that need our help (with the possible exceptions of Hungary in 1956, Rawanda and Darfur in the most recent days,almost forgot Cambodia). Yes we've had lapses but we are the goal,define what all people crying for human rights look to emulate. This is not the America I fought for 40 years ago. I'm extremely PROUD to be an American...yet not proud of the depths to which our leadership has sunk.

Hooray for the House Democrats!! It is a shame that so many Democratic Senators [19]
caved in to Bush and the communication companies.There were 48 votes from the Republicans voting for this odious bill so the Dems didn't have a chance to get it
blocked, anyway. Of course, that is no excuse.
We must see to it that, in the next election, the number of Republican senators is decreased so that the Dems, if they ever get their courage back, will have a chance to correct a lot of Bush's errors.

To anyone who thinks that this Protect America Act is a bad thing, what do you have to hide?