OK, this is random, but in the book club/plane crash flashback, what was Ethan coming out of when all the Others were gathering with Ben to watch the plane crash? It looked like he was crawling out of a small door, like a doghouse or something... maybe I saw it wrong, (I don't remember seeing it before) and it is probably not significant at all, I'm just wondering what that was?? (I don't have DVR to rewind and review :) )

Last night's episode definitely had me thinking of "Children of Men". I now speculate that the Others are from the future (a la "The 400") and some post-apocalyptic time when they have figured out - via stem cell research - how to cure a lot of things (like lameness, cancer) but are infertile. The island may be a real place or at some time/space continuum point - which the plane fell through like a Bermuda Triangle effect. If the Others are from the future, then yes, Rachel could be Ben's mother. Juliet (whose last name I thought was BURKE, not BLAKE) the scientist plays the same sort of role as the schizophrenic scientist in "The 400" - namely, she was on the "right track" with her research - but in the present time was thwarted by current concepts of medical ethics. The (future) Others would see her utility and ethics be damned. I also think that's why they wanted to study the children (what do "healthy" children look like? how do they develop?) and successfully pregnant women (Claire) to try to avoid/cure the hemorrhagic fever. The time/space warp explains Desmond's strange flashback experience and also why a pirate ship could be found on the island with a drug plane. I think where Locke went with them was Back to the Future - because he has a kind of "openness" to the strangeness of it all that many of the other castaways don't share. The island may be a real place (a polar ice cap AFTER completely global warming - which you might get post Apocalypse), which explains the polar bears - or it could be a big sound stage like "The Truman Show" to which the castaways' plane was "beamed up".

An additional curveball:

On the matter of Juliet's sister, I note that Juliet accepted Ben's representation that Rachel had cancer just on the basis of medical records, which can be falsified. How, therefore, do we even know for sure that Rachel's cancer recurred? Ben might have faked the records to manipulate Juliet. The video of Rachel on 9-22-04, therefore, might have been real, and she might have been cancer-free without "Jacob's" intervention.

Juliet's last name is Burke, not Blake

Maybe Ben is really Claire's baby in the future, and that's why the psychic made such a big deal about her being the only one who raises the child from season 1? Juliet said Claire was the only one to have a child on the island and Ben said he was born on the island.

Another great episode! Elizabeth Mitchell's acting is wonderful as well - she is so expressive, and yet we have no idea what is really going on. There were a couple of interesting moments when she was talking to Ben - is she double crossing him as well? I loved the way she explained Ethan's presence in their midst - an answer, at last! Also, I'd been upset for some time at the Others increasing humanity -- they had been so creepy and silent the first season -- but I'm coming to accept that the reason they got around so quietly, and appeared out of nowhere, was their tunnel system.

Jen says in two weeks we'll find out the father of Sun's baby. I believe we found out who the father of Sun's baby was in the episode from season 2 where she's shown having an illicit affair with that charming son of the hotel magnate. Am I off-base here?

Remember, Sun only agreed to Jin's comment that her pregnancy was a miracle because she didn't want him to know the truth -- as privately revealed to her by their doctor -- that it is Jin, NOT Sun, who was clinically infertile (although the doctor initially told them the opposite).

During the revelation of her pregnancy, Sun looked deep into Jin's eyes and swore she'd never been with any other man. But as nice a person as Sun is, we KNOW she has the capacity for boldface lies. Wasn't that the whole point of the flashback showing her as a child lying about the housekeeper breaking the statue?

Oh - one more thing. Passing through the time/space warp or being "beamed up" was certainly why the Others would want to drug Juliet before the trip. In that sense, I think the submarine was just a prop - at first to keep the fact that she's either going to the future or a big sound stage in the sky a secret. Now, why she would dress that way, even for a long transpacific flight, and why she'd willingly drink unknown powder, is a whole other story. I believe that up to this point in the flashbacks, Juliet truly thought she was on some island in the south Pacific - but I'll bet at some juncture she figured out she really wasn't and desparately wanted to go "back". She would do anything they asked to make that a reality.

Yes, yes, yes! What a great episode! You two are spot-on again with your analysis. Lost has found it's way again and is finally getting back on track. It was indeed like Sayid was giving the go ahead with his opening question. I mean, even the flash backs were pushing the story forward and providing answers. Yeah!

But we must have quibbles and I agree that Juliet downing the tranquil was pretty lame. Plus, how long was that ride on the sub? She didn't need to eat or, you know, go potty, during that voyage to the island?

And why didn't anyone mention or notice Locke's absence when Jack and Kate returned?

All that aside, with the Dillon Pathers winning state, last night was one great TV watch.

I thought Juliet's last name was Burke, not Blake?

In the "we miss you"video you like to, isn't the little kid a girl? When in the playground video feed from last night they said it was a little boy.

Or maybe I got it wrong because I was still a bit "flustered" from the gratuitous, but much appreciated, shot of Juliet's naked backside.

to Tdot:

Oh don't make my head hurt. ;)

I gotta say - with the loss of Eko, Juliet has taken his place as favorite character. There's a lot going on there, but there's a lot of gray areas in their mindset that make the characters engaging.

I'm actually starting to get tired of Kate - she's seeming so one-note compared to the increasing complexities of some of the other characters. Anyone else feel that way?

I don't know that Juliet's sister is Rachel Burke since Burke is Juliet's married name...but there still could be some connection with the Burke name.

I enjoyed the episode and would have completely loved it if not for Jack's complete trust in this woman after looking in her eyes. He's got to be pulling my leg, nobody's that darn naive and stupid. The "she's under my protection comment" made me laugh. That tatoo is going to your head buddy. This isn't a dictatorship it's a democracy, your protection isn't worth crap when you think about the fact that you were taken by your girlfriend and her crew and the last time that happened with a lostie two people died when he came back.

Also, Sayid and Sawyer letting Juliet get one over on them. So she knows about your past. The losties know you were a torturer and a con man. Can the things she mentioned be that much of a stretch for these two? She's not to be trusted and the viewers know why but with all the questions still looming I think an all out uprising should have happened and were I on that beach she wasn't staying there, end of story.

On the other hand, I do think she's pulling one on Ben as well. There is something about the smirk she had on her face when he put out the face mask and the last scene when she was tying the tarp, she had a serious look on her face like she saw something. This makes up for the big secret reveal episode that wasn't. I hope they don't forget the statue with the four toes.

Oh - and Juliet's attire.

I don't think she thought she'd be heading for a submarine. I think she thought she was starting her first day on the job, and she wasn't sure what that job was.

How many of us have perhaps overdressed in our early days on a new job?

Wait, Rousseau's daughter Alex....I thought Ben said he was born on the island. And if he's Alex's dad...then I have to assume she was conceived on the island. Right?

Juliet's married last name is Burke (ex-husband is Edmund Burke, hit by bus), but her maiden name could be Blake.
Also, the healer in Australia that Rose went to was named Isaac, so further tie-in with the Jackob/ Rachel bit.
My quibble - the story about Ethan taking blood samples during the first days on the island (before she was kidnapped); that just didn't seem plausible to me. How could he get that close to Claire without being seen? I know she had some nightmares, but unless they have some different very low impact technology for the blood sampling, I think that part of Juliet's story was made up.

I also suspect that the Rachel videos could be CGI, and a newspaper can easily be manufactured with a date.
The blow-up of Mikhail's comm station does seem problematic however.

My big question after this episode, is what do the Others want with the Losties? Why is Juliet there? Is it just Claire, or something more?

DC said "Wait, Rousseau's daughter Alex....I thought Ben said he was born on the island. And if he's Alex's dad...then I have to assume she was conceived on the island. Right?"
He's not actually Alex's dad. He took her from Rousseau. And did Rousseau give birth on the island? I think she arrived with baby in tow.

I believe Hurley told Juliette that the last "other" who tried to live with them was killed. Ben was captured and held prisoner. He did not infiltrate them and try to live with them as Ethan did.

Chasmosaur,

I tired of Kate when Jacke told her to stay on the beach and she left anyway, got caught and was responsible for them losing the guns to the others and to top it all of she turns around and gives a useless apology.

Oh boy did we ever goof. Bolero, TV Watcher and everyone else chiming in is right -- Juliet (and her sister's) last name is "Burke," not "Blake."

Oh well, another theory scrubbed.

Herarat is an anagram of Earhart aka Amelia Earhart

Actually, someone (I don't remember who) did ask about Locke, and Jack said that he had joined the Others.

Have we seen a clear shot of any of the Others' feet? I'm just wondering if they have 4 toes (thinking of the statue)...

Very nice analysis but wanted to add in my two cents.

I question whether the Others knew or even currently know about Desmond. Both times the island shook due to Desmonds failure to push the button, the Others seem not to truly comprehend the cause of the situation. (Again signified last night by the Others reaction to the plane crash). Yet we do know the Other knew about the hatch through the Pearl. Did they believe the button was simply a psychological experiment (as Locke did after seeing the reel in the Pearl) and never made the leap that it was a real danger?

Not entirely convinced Jack is snowed by Juliet. As noted he seems correct that Juliet's main desire appears to be to get off the island. And in a way that does make Juliet in Jack's words "one of us". Note that Jack has dealt with Locke and Sawyer who are also among the "us" but have never truly seen eye to eye with Jack. Jack may simply feel he has enough insight into Juliet to not need more info. After all, we all know everyone on the island has secrets.

Finally, to go into the more mystical. It seems the island is a place where karmic balance is restored. It would explain Locke's ability to walk (a good person who has run into bad situations is given a break), Rose's (where are you?) remission, and many of the deaths on the island. The smoke monster seems to be one way the island restores this Karmic balance. That may explain its reaction to Juliette last week. Trying to currently figure out where Julliete is on the karmic scale also makes me want to scream and run away in horror. Most importantly though the concept of island as karmic restorer explains the others deep fascination with the kids. As kids, they are innocents and at the least would have a non-negative karmic balance. From the perspective of the others this would be gold to them as in a sense the kids are talismans - deserving of only good things from an island perspective.

Finally this would explain Ben's constant scheming. He is trying to find loopholes. He wants the island to give him good things, but also wants power. It may also explain his tumor and inability to walk immediately after the operation, and his confusion about it all. He believes he is a good person, but the island is starting to recognize otherwise.

herarat=earhart!

I'm so glad someone else noticed those damn high heels she had on!!

When I saw her get out of the sub, I thought "Those aren't island shoes!!" Nor are they shoes fit for a very long flight. But some women are very attached to those high heels & wouldn't be caught dead in anything else so maybe she was one of those.

Also, just because we saw the sub, doesn't mean it would actually run. I say it's all smoke & mirrors. Didn't Benry say it didn't really work anymore?

I think Jack is totally playing them. I think he's still Badass Jack underneath it all & he's just going along to get along. You can catch more flies w/honey & all that other cliche crap.

As for Benry, or should I say Michael Emerson does an amazing Hannibal Lecter. At one point last nite I closed my eyes while he was talking & I could've sworn it was Sir Anthony in Hannibal mode. He's got that calm yet crazy tone down pat.

Whoa whoa whoa! Let's not get carried away here. Don't go trying to create theories out of well explained plot devices.

The "Rachel Blake" mentioned by Hanso's letter is part of "The Lost Experience" and has absolutely no bearing on the tv show Lost. The entire Lost Experience took place in realtime over the summer of 2006. As far as we know, it is still 2004 on Lost island.

If you need to know the entire plot of the Lost Experience, I suggest searching it on wikipedia or Lostpedia.com

Does anyone have any theories about Jacob? Are we sure he really exists or is he just another part of Ben's manipulation? He seems to be a key element in the plot, but I never see much written about him in these discussions.

I'm not convinced that the Others' "collecting" of the children is because of their clean karmic slate - If it's true that women cannot carry pregnancies conceived on the island to term, they would know that the children are needed to help further their research, and eventually replace themselves. Without the ability to procreate, the Others have no way to "further" their kind, so stealing the children would help in their recruiting/brainwashing activities in that they wouldn't have to find/steal people from the outside world.

Another interesting take I've heard on the "Herarat" name is breaking the word apart to "Her a rat" which would make it an episode Easter Egg that foreshadows the Juliet/Ben flashback twist at the end of the episode.

When they were on their way back to the beach, Jack said to Juliet..."are you nervous?" I took it to mean nervous about meeting the Losties? My wife's first thought was that they were in on some type of scheme together...almost like, "are you nervous they'll find out about it?" Liek everything in this damn show there's 20 ways to look at everything.

By the end of the episode it APPEARED Jack had been totally fooled by Juilet. I just really don't think the writers are going to let the characters of Kate and Jack get so one-dimensional. I think there's lots going on behind the scenes with both of them. If they're acting/looking dumb now, I think it's just for show. Time will tell (hopefully).

On the Herarat Aviation question: why not the obvious? Her a rat. It fits Juliet perfectly.

I'm usually more annoyed and bored by big meta- or allegorical theories of the show, but I think the "back to the future" theory posted above is brilliant. In addition to everything Jean, the poster, points out, it also would mean that Ben doesn't necessarily have/ didn't need to have contact with the main land in order to show footage of (a) the Red Sox winning the World Series to Jack and (b) Juliet's sister at the playground (though there'd still need to be some explanation for her cancer-cure).

As far as I can tell, (and though I love the show and would love to be able to, I don't have the time to watch each episode screen by screen, research every lostpedia page or get caught up with the Lost Experience) Jacob is still a huge unknown on the show. Besides knowing that he has an all-important "List" and theorizing about the biblical meanings behind his name, I don't believe we know much, if anything, concrete about him. If anyone knows more, please correct me :)

I think Juliet's work will mean that it will become important to know whether or not Sun got pregnant while on or off the island, and that's how the daddy issue will be revealed.

I also think that maybe Ben/Jacob gave Rachel cancer, which is why they could cure it. We saw in tonight's episode that the others are not opposed to making people sick just to earn trust by curing them.

Not Schlomo, - I can't believe you told me that that the Dillon Panthers won state- I haven't had time to watch that yet! Well - like they would lose?

So is it possible that Jin's infertility was cured by the island and he is the father of the baby? Why did it cure Rose's cancer and not Ben's? And WHERE IS ROSE?

it should be fairly easy to piece together when Sun got pregnant? When did they reveal it on the show? I remember the episode, but not any details of when it fell in the timeline. (thankfully someone was packing a pregnancy kit in their luggage - I remember Kate going to Sawyer's CVS to get it)

Anonymous, thanks for making my day with the question about the Others' feet! After I stopped laughing and gave it some thought - it fits in with my "they are from the future" theory. The Colossus of Rhodes was one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World - which had me originally thinking the island was The Lost Island of Atlantis. However - the 4 toes thing (which I totally forgot) fits in with a post-Apocalyptic scenario of infertile people who have been genetically altered due to possible nuclear radiation. The little toe is supposedly just a vestige of our cloven hoof days in the evolutionary chain. Many scientists already speculate that eventually it'll just disappear due to lack of purpose. What we saw on "Lost" could be the Colossus of Lost Island - one of the wonders of the Future World.

Dharma is cosmic law and phenomena. In Japan, there's a doll called Daruma which is modelled on Bodhidharma, who brought Zen to India from China. it is said that Bodhidharma sat so long in meditation he lost the use of his legs. The Daruma doll is legless and represents the single mindedness needed to accomplish a goal. If you tip him over (adversity), he bounces back up. The eyes are blank. You paint in one eye of the Daruma when you set a goal; the second eye when you achieve it.

That Locke is as bald as Buddha and has overcome much adversity (including "leglessness") is not for nothing.

How this might relate to McPatchy (one-eyed Mikhail - who might also be the Archangel Michael, who stood up for "the children" (of Israel) after Exile) - I haven't yet figured out; and it is confusing since there is another Michael, the crash survivor. Unless Michael the survivor ends up coming back for all the others to "avenge" what happened to him and his son.

This adds nothing to any of the theories or anything, but I had to chuckle during the show last night during the flashback where Ben and Juliet were approaching Mikhail's station and calling out that they were approaching and Ben sort of said under his breath: "so don't shoot us..." I don't know why but it was just humorous to me, kind of out of place amongst Ben's seriousness and mind games... they knew Mikhail was kind of a nut job :)

Could it be that Dharma has (or will?) unlease a virus or other mutagen that affects pregnancies and children, and the Others are experimenting to try and solve the problem so they can counter-act or fix/prevent the effects of the damage from propagating? Or even, create a new, immune line of mothers/babies who can live with the Dharma virus/mutagen. Sort of a breeding colony to repopulate someplace... the future?

Ethan was under Juliet's house fixing the plumbing or something like that. We saw that scene before. I think when it was revealed that he was actually an Other. I thought Juliet's bronzer problem was actually just Juliet being dirty. She and Kate were covered with grime. These last few episodes have been great. The previews look even better.

Ooh, I can't wait for the next episode. I hope it's a good one -- not a repeat of the Jack's tattoo and Bai Ling debacle.

Hey, so which parts of Juliet's story do you think is true? We know for sure that Juliet is duping the Losties (or Ben?), so it makes it hard for me to trust her story about Ethan trying to save Claire. Could that part of her story be true or do you think it's another mindgame?

I'm sorry but I have to go back to the "Left Behind" episode but can someone please clarify for me what Juliet told Kate about being handcuffed to her!? What was Juliet's explanation when she came clean about having the key? It came up again last night when Ben and Juliet were discussing their plan and it makes no sense to me.

Great episode. However, the one thing that continues to bother me is that Sayid repeatedly does nothing...the supposed very tough torturer and interigator does nothing to get info out of the Others. So he asked a few questions...big deal! He threatens to kill Juliette but he shuts up after one sentence from Jack about leaving her alone??!! Stupid. Plus Sayid and Sawyer, who are supposed to be the tough guys were WAY too easily convinced by Juliette's little speach about the medicine in the jungle. She called them out on a few things and they walk away...again lame.

Sayid needs to be the awesome character he used to be when he was beating up Henry/Ben and torturing Sawyer during the first season!

Jean - what's "The 400"? I only know "the 4400" (USA Network program). Please advise!

Has anyone addressed yet any ideas on what the heck claire was "implanted" with?!?! Unless they knew they were eventually going to have to have things set up for one of the Others to "save" Claire, Why did they implant something in her and what is it?? Are any of the other Losties "bugged"? (Sawyer?) What information can the Others get from the implant, if any?

Also, Lindtyx: "My quibble - the story about Ethan taking blood samples during the first days on the island (before she was kidnapped); that just didn't seem plausible to me. How could he get that close to Claire without being seen?"

I believe we already knew that Ethan was injecting Claire (or I guess he could have been drawing blood) nightly during his time in the Losties camp. She was having what she thought were nightmares, but really just glimpses of rememberance of what had happened to her. It appears that whatever they injected her with also made her forget being injected (or in this episode, forget being sick altogether), and when she initially told people of her nightmares, no one believed her.

A couple of observations:

The writers have been going to great lengths this season to reiterate how Benry's word is as good as gold. But, it is interesting how whenever Ben does give his word, its almost always in a win-win situation for him. Is it just luck, or quick thinking (re: Locke blowing up the sub preventing Jack from leaving), or careful planning (Sure juliet you can leave and watch your sis die, or you can stay here and I'll cure her). Maybe he does the future/past?

If Jack is snowing Juliet, then there needs to be some sort of tell in the past episodes that would suggest he hasn't grown to trust her. Did we actually see her reaction to the sub blowing up?

Also, is there more motivation for Juliet's willingness to victimize the losties than just wanting to get off the island? After all, Ana Lucia did kill her island boyfriend (Is there more to Goodwin that we need to know?)

The time aspect is also very interesting. If the others know they are caught in some sort of loop, maybe that explains the willingness of Mikhail, Mrs. Klugh, Goodwin and Ethan to all willingly put themselves in harms way, and willingly die.

Lastly, Sayid is always right. He's the reluctant torturer who apparently never needed to torture his victims to find out the truth. I am very curious to see how he and Juliet interact, especially after she dressed him down out in the woods.

If Claire is Ben's mother, that means Jack is Ben's uncle.

Where do the numbers fit in to all of these theories or the significance of the hatch? Why so much focus on the 4-8-15-16-23-42 at the initial start of the series...where is that going to fit together here?

No way is Jack clueless about Juliet being up to something. He knows where the uterus is and that you do not need an abdominal needle to get serum in your system to offset an attack on your immune system. Know I do not know if the needle administered by Juliet was to impregnate Claire -or- to offset the recently triggered "thing" Ben had implanted in Claire while she was preggers -or- both.
Jack is in control and I think Locke is in control, too. They are up to something...probably on separate paths...but they are on it!

Anyone notice the other TV's that Mikhail was watching? One of them states that a plane crash occurred (or a missing plane). Put that screen in connection with the plane crash, that happened minutes before, and clearly the world is aware of this plane disappearing or crashing. However, there has been no contact from anyone looking for the plane since the Losties arrived. Has there ever been any mention of the outside world in this context other than Desmond's dear Penelope looking for him (which they have not come back to since the ending of last season)?

Hey-- was the Juliet book club episode at the beginning of the 3rd season?? I can remember when that episode happened. It just felt like a LONG long time ago, but I just thought it was such a brilliant tie-in.

When I first saw that episode with Juliet hosting her little book club and being kind of weepy and on edge, I didn't really think much of it. But man -- now it makes so much sense.

I did wonder about the drugs and implant also.

Did Claire have any scars from the implant on her body? Any sort of surgical procedure will result in residual pain for quite some time after the surgery.

And, forgive me writers, but would Jack, a medical doctor, presume to believe that a serum hidden in the woods for many weeks now (ethan died in th´middle of season one) in the TROPICS (the heat, my god the heat!!) would still be viable? I think he'd at least ask her, before pumping an injection into her abodomen.

The condition of the leaf and litter cover over the case should have been was a give away to the viewers (as Benry said at the end, one of our guys is stashing the meds now).

But I am disappointed that Sayid did not pick up on the freshness of the brush covering the case. Plants will wilt soon after they have been cut, and the loose plant stems and leaves over the box were pretty darn fresh looking! Sayid seems to miss little, so what gives?

The thread above reminds me of something I had forgotten...when Claire's flashback episode about her pregnancy aired, her boyfriend/father of her child looked like Benry's younger twin. I was sure that he was somehow related to Benry. Did anyone else notice this?

Ric97

I agree with you. As a doctor, he would have at the very least been more curious about what sort of serum she developed. Even a simple, what is it would have helped. And yes, that she injected it into her abdomen, presumably into her uterus should be a red herring. Juliet claimed it was an serum withdrawal response, and her immunological system was going to destroy her body. So why stick her in the belly?

I don't think that Jack "knows" what's going on with Juliet. If he did, he wouldn't have let her stick Claire with a needle with some wacked out unknown serum. I think she has him duped like everyone else.

While I'm still trying to work it into the meta-analysis, and keeping in mind Juliet's observation that the pregnancy problems happen at conception, I would note that some people believe that we are all conceived with original sin.

I want to know where the Others got all the information about the passengers on 815. Like, how could they possibly know that Sawyer had killed a man in cold-blood the night before, as Juliette said? It happened hours before the flight, Sawyer was not caught. Only he and the dead person know it happened, so where on Earth are the Others (Mikhail and Ben) getting their information? I think that aspect of it creeps me out more than anything!!!

I want to know where the Others got all the information about the passengers on 815. Like, how could they possibly know that Sawyer had killed a man in cold-blood the night before, as Juliette said? It happened hours before the flight, Sawyer was not caught. Only he and the dead person know it happened, so where on Earth are the Others (Mikhail and Ben) getting their information? I think that aspect of it creeps me out more than anything!!!

2 theories:

1) Rachel's cancer returned and Ben & Jacob cured it.

2) Rachel's cancer never came back. Ben just made that up to make Juliet choose to stay on the island. Later when he needed to make that choice again, Ben could just "cure" her of cancer that she never had! Ben is a miracle worker without ever doing anything.

I'm choosing #2.

freeze frame the bottles of serum in the "cooler" when Ethan is injecting Claire.

read the "DIN" or "lot" numbers printed near the top of the label ... there they are again!

Curious, you are right. I shortchanged "The 4400" by 4,000. I'm great with literary analysis, but not with numbers. No doubt, had I been in charge of the computer, I would have entered the wrong sequence and caused the purple sky two years ago.

Speaking of the Apocalypse - am I the only viewer old enough to remember actual bomb shelters built in the 1960s? Those hatches look exactly like them and the Dharma Initiative's logo looks like the "radiation" warning signs that would signify them.

In the analysis, one aspect that has gone unnoted is the geopolitical angle. Yes, we all get the mythical and religious - but the geopolitical one is important, too. Where do all these folks come from? In the world today, where do we fear the nuclear threat will come from? The Middle East, North Korea, some disgruntled former USSR scientist, etc. Where is there great woe in the world today? Africa. Who are (and were) our Allies? Great Britain, Australia (who consider their role rather unsung in the 20th century history). The castaways seem to represent a microcosm of the geopolitcal world today - with some minor variations. It would not be believable for a North Korean to be taking a holiday trip on Ocean Air - so Sun and Jin are South Koreans - but then a lot of folks are thinking "One Korea" all the time. They represent every continent saving Antarctica. Maybe the Island IS Antarctica - after total global warming - though the polar bears would have had to have floated down there from the Arctic on rapidly melting ice floes.

Remember the comic book that Walt found in Season 1? It seemed to explain what was happening (or happened) - except it was all in Spanish (the new 21st century Big World Language) and he couldn't understand it and it got tossed in a fire. In "Heroes" the comics (manga - adult comics) PREDICT the future. Perhaps on "Lost" the comic book was a representation from the future of what had already happened. In the future, the manga art form would be king of literature.

The Others probably come from the Near Future rather than some other distant galaxy. Rather than trying to change events of the past (as in "The *4400*") to avoid the apocalypse, they seem more concerned with fixing some issues they end up with as survivors of it - like sterility.

For those thinking their dilemma is repopulating - I don't think that's exactly it. I think the "cleansing" of the apocalypse may have fitted in with their thinking. Having gotten over medical ethics in the near future, cloning would be common. However, cloning can only replicate the genetic defects of the original in the copy.

Stem cell research might help you "fix" a problem after it had already developed - but cloning would never prevent it from developing in th first place.

So their goal is probably to explore good old fashioned reproduction and try to figure out how they might use it to create a master race - that never gets sick and possibly never dies as a result. That's why they are picky about who is on the "list" and even moral questions can exclude you. They will be superior in every way.

As far as what was "done" to Claire - I believe she was innoculated with a vaccine supposedly designed to PREVENT the hemorrhagic fever (and thus save her yet unborn child for study). However vaccines are either made from weakened, live virus or dead virus. Since nothing stays "dead" on this island for long . . . it's entirely possible that the virus in the vaccine lying dormant in her has now come "alive".

Remember that Rousseau said her crew were "infected" with something (she either said or implied viral).

The Others could have tried to invent a vaccine in reaction to that failed experience with Rousseau's crew so that they could keep the Ocean Air folks alive long enough to study them and solve the Future Problem.

The whole hemorrhagic fever angle also makes sense with a nuclear worldwide war. It is said that Ebola virus is "stirred up" when the contaminated earth is disturbed and releases it into the atmosphere (same for Anthrax). Ebola virus is prevalent in Africa and possibly has been there thousands of years. It's never really killed - it's just lying dormant there.

The future Others might have developed some resistance to it - but they would have probably been unaware of how it might affect past people. And it would be with the future Others - regardless of their country of origin - because in the Great Apocalypse a whole lot of earth was "stirred up"!!!

If Jack hasn't been manipulated into trusting juliet by all the lovely grilled cheese sandwhiches and her apparent hostility toward Ben when Jack was in the glass medical prison, then he has been brainwashed somehow. I'm not thinking the grilled cheese did the trick. It just doesn't seem in keeping with Jack's carefully crafted character to see him falling for Juliet's ploy. How did Jack go from the angry prisoner to the docile, football playing, trusting best friend of Juliet. I just don't buy it. I think there are going to be flashbacks to Jack's week at the Other's camp after the other losties were freed. Something happened to him -- maybe like the weird media overload room that Ben's daughter's boyfriend was in.

The heroic, lead the people, turn in your own father for medical malpractice, Jack would not take a trip home on the sub and leave the other losties behind, but the new, toss the football around like the Kennedys and trust Juliet because of the look in her eyes Jack was more than willing to.

He's not the same guy -- something happened to him.

And if I was Charlie, I wouldn't trust him.

Wouldn't be surprised if Walt and Michael return next season to announce that they made it to the mainland and found that everyone was dead/gone.

This is kinda independent of last night's show, and it's possible that others have come up with this theory before.

I strongly believe that the island is moving. This would explain how the small prop plane from Nigeria is on the island, and how the sub can never find it's way back since the "sky turned purple" (fried the beacon) If the island was stationary, they should always be able to find their way back by using the cooridnates. Perhaps this is also why Penny and the Antarctic guys needed the magnetic burst to find out where the island is.

I think that Juliet lied to Jack during the "I can save her speech". She said that Claire had the 1st live birth on the island but I was pretty sure that Rousseau (sp?) was knocked up before getting to the island but gave birth on the island. Was this an oversight by the writers or a lie to Jack?

Hey - did anyone else catch the voiceover during the preview for next week's episode? It was something like - 'its the beginning of the end' did that mean the beginning of the end of this season's episode's - or did it mean that next season is the last one? I can understand that all good things must come to an end - but so soon?

Did I get lost (no pun intended) during last night's episdoe, or did Juliet originally emerge from the sub to find herself somewhere that looked more like the Pacific Northwest with mountains surrounding a bay than on an island in the Pacific??

From the start, I believe the producers have said the show will last for 5 seasons.

To rnm: I definitely thought Juliet was in the Pacific Northwest when she emerged from the sub - there were pine trees in the background! I just figured we were supposed to think she was on a different part of the island and so they made it look really different, but I agree with you on the confusion.

Re: Juliet and Ben. Let's not forget Juliet's attempt to conspire with Jack to have Ben die on the operating table. Or was that just another ruse on Juliet's part?

Brandybuck: I was thinking about that, too. With what we know now though, I now think that Juliet and Ben worked together on that one, that they were testing Jack in some way. If Juliet knew Ben was the only one who can get her off the island, why would she want him dead? Also, from the Juliet flashbacks from last night's episode, it doesn't appear that she was angry enough with him to want him dead (yes, she was VERY angry with him a few times thinking that he lied about her sister, but he calmed her down with evidence that he did not lie to her). If Juliet really thinks Ben is her ticket off the island, I don't think what she told Jack with that video can be the truth. (Also supporting this is the fact that even when Jack revealed in the OR that Juliet told him to kill Ben, Ben is still to this day using Juliet in his schemes and appears to be close to her, and trusts her to follow through with the instructions he gives her)

...and Ben, and Locke...all these rich and confusing characters! What are their motives *really*? When are they lying, and when are they telling the truth? I would love to see a flashback on Ben, though I think that they won't, because it would give away too much. There haven't been characters this good on television since Joss Whedon left TV.

so if it is to last 5 seasons, we are moving towards the beginning of the end, because we are more than half-way through this season, the third. Oh. . .

I like the pregancy theory with Kate and Sawyer. Aka trying to get Kate pregnant. Remember when Sawyer was first kidnapped and the others implanted something in him? Just an idea it might have something to do with it.

I had a thought about your asking why they would need to populate the island while the real world is doing it so well. We've so far seen a lot of nuclear testing evidence on the island. You've also suggested a post-9/11 theory. I think these two are related. I think the island could be used as a testing facility to try to reproduce in a post-nuclear fallout scenario. This way, the US could nuke the entire world while its citizens live in fallout shelters, and everyone could come back out again and be able to reproduce despite the lingering radiation. I know, far-fetched, but I love the relation to Dr. Strangelove.

Brandybuck: I don't think that was a ruse on Juliet's part. It fits with Ben "not being in the book club" (Juliet tells Jack not all of the Others truly side with Ben) as well as her branding.

Doobster: Interesting you bring up the concept of "original sin" as I failed to think about that. However it does tie in to the meta-analysis, if you recall the episdoe where Charlie was nuts and felt it was urgent that Claire's baby be baptized. (And I believe Eko eventually did perfom the baptism)... This would tie into the idea of karmic balancing being a key component of the island i mentioned earlier.

I tend to dislike these theories as I am one who tries not to get into the mystical, but then again some people will explain karma as subconscious (or psychological) manifestations, so there can be a "real science" explanation as well. The whole perception is reality angle.

"In the year 2000. In the year 2000!"

Sorry, had to be done with all the future talk.

Nashy said: "Where do the numbers fit in to all of these theories or the significance of the hatch? Why so much focus on the 4-8-15-16-23-42 at the initial start of the series...where is that going to fit together here?"

I didn't know about the DIN numbers on the syringes, but the number "8" did appear at the last scene...Juliet's knot. Check it on the replay.

Also, when Ben is rehashing the plan with Juliet, there are a few visual clues:
"But, there's one problem..." The camera focuses on Desmond. This could follow one's theory about Desmond seeing the future in parts. However, Ben's comment after she said that is geared towards Claire's implant.

Also when Ben mentions Jack, Juliet is not only smiling in the "present" but also in the flashback, which prompts Ben to ask "Are you alright?" I guess we may see how her true feelings for Jack advance in the coming weeks. As the tabloids say, "She's totally smitten with him. They looked like they were really into each other."

Here's a clue for all of you. Remember when McKhale told Kate that she was flawed? Based on last nights episode, what if flawed meant she can't have children. Which would explain why the Others can't forgive her as Locke explained. My theory is that her step father raped and impregnated her. If she aborted the pregnancy, that could have caused her not to be able to get pregant again. Additionally, that would also explain why set the fire and her mother saying she killed him (stepfather) for her own reasons.

I can't for the life of me remember which Lost blog I read it on, but I saw somewhere that the last two episodes of the season will feature Ben flashbacks. Don't take it as gospel, but I swear I saw it somewhere...

What is the meaning of the mark on the tree where the medical stash was hidden for Juliet in "Ethan's old droppoint?" It's the same as Juliet's brand. I don't think it's related to the Dharma logo, but I don't know if I've seen it anywhere else before... is it related to Mittelos? help! :)

Worst episode ever!! When did Sayid and Sawyer become such punks? How could they let Jack get away with the "under my protection" comment? And what was the point in following J to the medical bag just to stand around like puppies when she gives them a tongue lashing? This episode makes all the Losties look just plain stupid. They forget how clever the Others were when they infiltrated their camp, willingly accepting J on jack's word. The sam Jack who was about to bail on them? The writers dropped the ball on the character development big time.

But, I'm curious ow J knew about Sayid and Sawyers misdeeds. Sayid's history is an open book, hell if the CIA knew it anyone can find out. But Sawyer presumably never told anyone details about the murder he committed.

Weren't the Others going to kill Claire? Was it Alex that helped her to escape? If they assumed she was going to die in childbirth or before the baby was born, then it seems odd that one of the Others would help her to get away. It seems like her best chance of surviving would be to stay and be treated. Claire's escape does not seem to fit into what was revealed last night.

Interesting posting just made over on the Fuselage regarding the charts Ben gives Juliet that supposedly belong to Rachel showing her cancer has returned... Apparently the patient information on the charts lists it as a 5'11 male, 187 lbs... so definitely not Rachel's! (How Juliet would miss that though, is another question...) Is anyone here able to confirm that via screen shot??

Rachel Blake was the protagonist in the "Lost Experience" which they had last summer.

Go Dillon Panthers!

How did the Others know that Sawyer had killed a man the day before getting on Oceanic Flight 815? (As stated to him by Julie in her confrontation with him and Sayid.) Obviously, the Others had access to some incredibly detailed records of the Flight 815 passengers -- but Sawyer was never arrested or charged with that shooting in Australia, so how could they have known that? Or do they know everything, regardless of whether or not it's in some official governmental, legal, judicial, or medical records?

http://www.stationzer0.com/lost-easter-eggs/one-of-us-easter-eggs.php#more
There's a pic of the patient chart that says "male" here.

To April 12, 2007 05:08 PM

I believe it was Rousseau who helped Claire escape, not Alex.

The necessary random thoughts:

1) Rose was cured of cancer. Locke lost his paralysis. I'm thinking that Jin is the father of Sun's baby. He came to the island and became fertile again.

2) Juliet is playing for only one team and that's herself. She said herself that she was all alone here. The Others would be just as well to be skeptical of her as the Losties are.

3) Everyone has flaws. Jack's is his completely tunnel-vision, black and white view of others and other situations. Wouldn't be out of his nature at all to fall easily for Juliet's story. Let's not get too enamored of his judgment capabilities, which have proven wrong a number of times before.

4) Anybody notice how much Sawyer was grabbing that leadership role before Jack reemerged? Sure, there was the snarly 'three men and a baby' comment but then he was quickly on to getting aspirin for Claire. Didn't seem too pleased to see his old rival reemerge.

5) Best episode of the season! First time I was excited when the flashbacks arrived because I knew some key info was coming!

In response to this post: "Weren't the Others going to kill Claire? Was it Alex that helped her to escape? If they assumed she was going to die in childbirth or before the baby was born, then it seems odd that one of the Others would help her to get away. It seems like her best chance of surviving would be to stay and be treated. Claire's escape does not seem to fit into what was revealed last night."

I believe it quite plausible that the Others were trying to help Claire just enough for her to give birth to a live, healthy baby -- but that they would let her die (perhaps kill her outright) so that they could raise the child according to their own precepts -- remember that the Others have a track record of kidnapping children ....

Minor point about the polar bears: I thought they were part of the zoo (the cages where Kate and Sawyer were kept) and escaped when the Dharma Initiative collapsed.

"Would Juliet really travel to an unknown destination wearing a skin tight pencil skirt and six-inch stilettos? Puh-leeze. "

wouldn't you dress up for your first day on the job? it's not like she knew she was going to an isolated island!

I don't know if anyone has made this connection in the past. Richard Alpert, one of the doctors that brough Juliet to the island, is the same name as a colleague of Timothy Leary in his experiments with Psylocybin (Synthesized Magic Mushrooms) and LSD. Richard Alpert, the real doctor, changed his name to Baba Ram Dass and wrote the book "Be Here Now." The spiritual classic teaches the harmoney of all people and religions. His many acquantances included Ken Kesey of the Merry Pranksters. Kesey's use of LSD consisted of laced orange juice. Coincidence?

ben and juliet have known that jack is like putty in juliet's hands since he "saved" her at that tribunal.

i wonder if the tribunal was real or if it was just staged to prompt jack to put his faith in juliet fully.

Just a great episode. I found myself hoping against hope that Juliet really wasn't the good guy they were trying to make her into, and then came that wonderful reveal at the end! I loved Hurley's ominous reference to Ethan being six feet under - this appears to be a portent of doom for Juliet. What is Charlie going to do when he finds out what the Others have done to Claire this time?

Great job, writers -- keep up the good work!

In response to the post about the island possibly curing Jin's infertility, I am the ONLY one who remembers the flashback episode (I believe in season 2) where Sun is in BED at least partially UNCLOTHED with the handsome, dashing, charming son of the hotel magnate -- and then her father (or one of his goons) crashes in on them, discovering the illicit affair??? And this occurred at the same time in Sun's life when she was falling out of love with Jin and his nouveau-rich-gangster lifestyle, and was thinking of leaving him. Making it all the more plausible that she and the hotel owner's son -- who she clearly had a BIG crush on from the very first time they met (during a flashback from season 1) on a blind date - would move from a friendship into a sexual relationship.

Week after week, on this discussion and on other LOST blogs, people refer to the mystery of Sun getting pregnant. I don't see how there's any mystery. The circumstances of her getting pregnant were shown about as explicitly as one could expect on network TV (if it had been HBO, I guess they could've made it clearer with more explicit scenes of love-making).

I am willing to bet anyone $100 that the hotel owner's son is the father of Sun's baby. Please email me at steve@goodnote.com if you wish to take me up on this. Seriously.

re.: Sun's pregnancy -- I always thought the show implied that Sun suspected she was pregnant before she got on the plane. Remember in the episode where the pregnancy is revealed -- Sun knows there's a pregnancy test from the luggage, and then, when she and Kate are sitting on the beach waiting for the results to come up, Kate asks why someone would bring one of these on the plane... Sun's expression seems to say it all. As much as I would like it to be Jin's baby (because after Juliet and Ben, Sun and Jin are my favorite characters), I don't think it is--I don't think she fell pregnant on the island. I also think it's one of the key reasons why Sun was originally intending to run away: her fear that Jin/her father would somehow find out.

---Could it be that Dharma has (or will?) unlease a virus or other mutagen that affects pregnancies and children, and the Others are experimenting to try and solve the problem so they can counter-act or fix/prevent the effects of the damage from propagating? Or even, create a new, immune line of mothers/babies who can live with the Dharma virus/mutagen. Sort of a breeding colony to repopulate someplace... the future?---

I remember a book years ago (sorry, can't remember the title) where a scientist had predicted humanity would destroy itself and leave the earth uninhabitable, so he worked to create humans that could breathe water like fish. I know, crazy, but the premise that he was preparing a small group of people to eventually populate the earth after mankind destorys himself sort of coincides with the theory that Dharma is working to prevent humanity's extinction. So I agree that a lot of what is going on may have to do with saving humanity by altering humans for a post apocalyptic world. Of course, if you can't have kids after the alteration, what's the point, and thus Juliet's importance.

As far as where the needle was put in Claire, it was in the abdomen. The uterus is much lower. Some serums are put in to the abdominal cavity since they are absorbed slower that way. Injecting that much of anything directly into the blood could give too high a dose. For slow absorbsion of a drug, the muscle or abdominal cavity is where it should go. But it isn't done like the simple "jab" Juliet did. You need to make sure it is in the cavity and not into the intestines, stomach, etc... But, hey, this is TV.

---The Others probably come from the Near Future rather than some other distant galaxy.---

Considering their level of technology (1960 era computers) they come from the past!

Also, is anyone having trouble with Ben claiming that he is loosing control over the Others, that there are conflicts within the Others and his leadership is on thin ice, as he claimed to Locke? How then could he tell everyone they are leaving and they all go with the plan, gassing our beloved losties, and leaving, all of them? Whoever is leading this group seems to have complete authority. I saw no evidence of disagreement. Even Juliet seems to be compliant. And that's another thing. We know Ben determines a person's weakness and exploits it. Watching Juliet scream to keep the camera on her sister makes it clear to me that she is being controlled by Ben using her sister, probably telling her that if she does not do what Ben wants her sister and/or the baby will die. I don't think Juliet is the total monster this episode made her out to be at the end.

And not to carry this on too long but I agree with what someone else said earlier about Jack and Locke working some scheme. I'm thinking they are playing their own game against the Others, maybe even as part of a plan they have. I'm convinced Jack knows Juliet is working for the Others and plans to use that against them in some way. That's why he made sure she got back to the beach, why he let Juliet work on Claire and is helping her pitch a tent. Jack is up to something. I think we can all agree Locke is up to something.

Re: Sun's Pregnancy

The problem with her lover being the father is that the've been on the island over 3 months. So even if she got pregnant by him the last time they made love, instantly hopped the plane to Australia, then turned around to go to LA, she would still be further along then what she's indicating (It was only a few weeks in TV time that she started to suffer morning sickness and took the pregnancy test)

The Submarine: I doubt if Juliet was brought there in the Sub. I think they placed her there unconscience, strapped, and let her wake up. (Kind of like Kate and Juliet). I think the sub came from Russeau 16 years ago and is a prop , like Ben told Locke. It can't be used, really.

Any thoughts?

To Jean:

Holy crap! You've really anaylized this thing!

Now me head is going to hurt every time I watch an episode.

---Holy crap! You've really anaylized this thing! Now me head is going to hurt every time I watch an episode.---

Only NOW your head hurting? You must be NEW to Lost. I've had a headache since September 2004!

If I'm off on this notion on "karmic balancing" on the island, please stop me...

I got to thinking about the reason Juliet was brought on the island. That women could not get pregnant. Then when Juliet was able to help them conceive, the mother and child died during the pregnancy.

As Jin referred to it, a pregnancy et al. is considered a "miracle"... If the island is about karmic balancing, then a miracle such as this would not be permitted unless the woman blessed with the miracle some how was a good person who encountered a heck of a lot of misery throughout life up to her time on the island. So the island would find a way to prevent the miracle from occuring, since if it occured, there would be no true way to balance it out through other methods.

Am I getting crazy with this premise?

In answer to Sully, Yes there was such a book. I remember the name but not as much of the plot as you do. The name is 'The Methuselah Enzyme' (spelling?)

One more comment, in case anyone is still reading...

I know the title of this episode, "One of Us," relates to an earlier eposide this season, "One of Them," but it also reminds me of the classic scene from the movie "Freaks." For those of you who haven't seen it, this is an oldie about a group of "freaks" in a traveling circus, and the gold-digger/con artist who marries one of the little people for his money. After the wedding, she is welcomed into their circle in a drinking ceremony where everyone chants, "One of us -- one of us -- one of us." In an unfortunate moment of honesty, she admits that she is disgusted by all of them. Shortly afterwards, she meets with a satisfying, if untimely, death at their hands as payback for betraying a member of the group.

Juliet had better be looking over her shoulder right now. If I had to guess, I say it'll be Charlie who does her in...

Steve

Dear "Lost Viewer":

You posted that "As Jin referred to it, a pregnancy ... is considered a 'miracle'".

He only said that because he was under the mistaken belief that Sun was infertile, and there's no way Sun was going to explain to him that the doctor had privately told her he, not she, was infertile.

Dear sjh,

Actually Jin's comment that the pregnancy was a miracle is because Sun DID explain to him that it was he who was infertile. She swore she hadn't been with another man and he believed her.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Whole_Truth

---In answer to Sully, Yes there was such a book. I remember the name but not as much of the plot as you do. The name is 'The Methuselah Enzyme'---

No. I checked that book online and that wasn't it. I'm remembering more now that I'm thinking about it. A small group of scientists was using computers (this was back in the 1960s) to predict the future. The memorable parts of the book were how computers got better and better, being able to predict the weather beyond a few days to weeks and even months (sort of how they do it today!). They used these computer algorithms to predict the future very far ahead and determined that humans would destroy themselves in only a few hundred years. Since land would be uninhabitable after man destroyed himself the group was secretly altering a small group of young (20ish) people and breeding others to produce humans with gills so they could breathe with lungs or the gills. They did this by inhibited the closing of the gill slits we all have in the first month or two of being a fetus (an evolutionary trait from our fish ancestors). Anyway, the subjects were not told the whole story and did not understand what was being done to them. They began to look for an escape. In the end they did produce viable gill/breathing humans who escaped into the ocean next to the research building, just what the researchers had planned. Now, when humans annihilated themselves there would be humans living in the sea that would survive. Or something like that.

The premise I'm linking here is that the Others are working to produce people that can live in a radioactive post-nuclear world. I believe the Others are that group, but are somehow unable to produce children, which sort of defeats the purpose. It probably took years to get the Others to the state they are at, being able to withstand radiation and other injuries and survive. Then Juliet was brought in to determine how to enable them to have children. Juliet is still working to make this happen. Juliet knows her job is critical to the survival of the human race and the Losties are the lab rats she needs to continue her work.

Now I'm not a fan of this idea but events in this episode reminded me of that book and its premise, so I thought I'd share it.