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Posted at 11:33 AM ET, 05/ 3/2007

Celebritology: 'Lost' Dueling Analyses: 'The Brig'

By Liz Kelly

If you thought last night's "Lost" was dense, wait till you read the following post-show analysis in which post.com movies editrix Jen Chaney and I welcome special guest blogger, J. Wood. Warning: Loads of spoilers, subtext and mind-bending theories follow. Proceed at your own risk.


John Locke (Terry O'Quinn) catches up on a little light reading. (Photo courtesy ABC)

Liz:  So many revelations, I hardly know where to start: Ben is deliciously evil, Kate is an idiot, Locke is disappointing, Sawyer is coming apart at the seams, Sayid is back (yay!), Cindy has highlights, Jack and Juliet know something we don't know, the Others are planning a raid on the beach camp and there is some kind of ruin to which one can tie murderous deadbeat dads for purposes of ritual sacrifice. This almost makes up for the Bai Ling incident. Almost.

But first, Jen -- much like Naomi's sudden arrival on the island, we have our own visitor this week. J. Wood normally does his own analysis each week over at Powells.com, but has graciously agreed to lend his expertise to us today. J. is the assistant director of the UVA Writing Center and author of "Living 'Lost.'"

Welcome J., expert on the "literate and literary" themes that form much of the context for "Lost." Did you come equipped with a satellite phone, too? If so, maybe we can use it to call Damon Lindelof and beg for some help digesting all of the new information thrown our way last night.


J. Wood: I'm actually phoneless at the moment, unless you want to get geeky and use Skype.


Jen: In response to Liz's message, I agree there was a great deal going on. I'm super-excited about "Lost" again with these last few episodes, as opposed to just semi-psyched or, after the aforementioned Bai Ling episode, utterly disgusted. Let's talk Naomi ... she revealed that her last name is Dorrit (I believe that's the proper spelling). If my Googling skills are worth a darn, Dorrit seems to be a variation of the name Dorothy, appropriate for a girl who fell out of the sky. (Though I don't think Kansas is the name of her star.)


Liz: J., I'm thinking you can help us with the provenance of "Dorrit"?


J. Wood: In the official podcast, Carlton Cuse said it's from Dickens, "Little Dorrit." It was a serial novel, 19 issues, each 32 pages long -- and last night's episode was the nineteenth of the season. They're into symbolic numbers.


Much more after the jump...

Liz: Anything we should conclude about Naomi based on the surname they've chosen?

J Wood: It was also a satire about government. With Locke, Hume, Burke, Cooper, Carlyle and Bakunin, there's been a subtext about theories of social organization all season; Naomi might be the pin that bursts some of the intellectual bubble


Jen: Darn, I like my Dorothy theory better, since it ties in so nicely with all "The Wizard of Oz" references. Speaking of the podcast, Lindelof also referenced the movie "Capricorn One" in this week's podcast. I have not seen the film (it's in my Netflix queue, natch), but he suggests that there may be some important clues in that movie, which is about a faked NASA mission. Is it possible that the plane crash was "faked" so the public would think our Losties had already died?

J. Wood: Here's a bit of an Easter egg: Early on in the first season, ABC put up a (fake) Web site about the crash of Oceanic 815, and it claimed that the Hanso Foundation was managing the recovery mission. If so, I'd say that it's a good bet the crash was faked. Where they got the bodies from will be an interesting story.

Liz: Absolutely -- the plane crash being staged. If the only proof is imagery from a robot diving off the coast of Bali, well, how hard would it be to fake that? Maybe the pix were taken on a sound stage in Houston. As for Naomi, it seems as if Jack and Juliet know something about her that they were conflicted about sharing with Kate in the final scene. What do they know about her?

Jen: But here's where I get confused. We saw a plane go down on the island. So were there two planes, one fake and the other real?

Liz: My thinking is that there was one plane -- the one that crashed on the island. There is no concrete proof -- as far as we know -- that another plane actual crashed off the coast of Bali. Just footage. No physical evidence.

Jen: Also, this notion of manipulating images speaks to your issue, Liz, with adding Nikki and Paolo into the footage of the crash a few episodes back. If nothing is real, then hell, why not add in the new characters? Maybe the show's writers are conning us about the crash.

J. Wood: Yep -- one real plane, the one that hit the island and the staged one. Something to note is that there was interference blocking the satellite phone signal. That same interference may be what hides the island. Maybe Hanso lost contact with the island after the purge and has been looking for it since; he staged the fake crash in order to track the real one in private.
   
Liz: Though that brings up another interesting contrast. Nikki and Paolo's presence on the island was so contrived and invasive to the experience. With Naomi, it's the exact opposite. They've done a good job of adding a character without her taking on the dreaded "Poochie" mantle.

Jen: Possible. The only reason Naomi and co. picked up the island was because the hatch exploded, right? That was when they located it and called Penny to let her know they had some coordinates, at least that's my recollection. Let's also remember that McPatchy (aka Mikhail) was handling communications from the island to the outside world. If he's controlling the message, I doubt he wants the truth to be out there, if I may borrow from "The X-Files."

J. Wood: On Nikki & Paolo: In their episode, the paper in the airport read Sept. 24, not Sept. 22. Cuse made a joke about it, suggesting (but not asserting) it was a mistake. But in Des's last flashback, he was in the monastery in 1995 before he met Penny; yet in "Flashes Before Your Eyes," it was 1996 and he'd been with her for two years.

Jen: Wow, J, you're making my head hurt already. But in a good way. Are you suggesting that the time continuum has gone cuckoo (which makes sense in "Lost" world) or that the writers made some big boo-boos?

J. Wood: Those time discrepancies don't seem like a mistake, and they've also been referencing Alan Moore's "The Watchmen." One of the characters in that book, Ozymandias Dr. Manhattan, experiences all time at once. That's kind of like Des's situation, but he can't control it. But as for how it relates to the faked crash: I'm harboring a pet theory that each time Des saves Charlie, he's not only changing the future, but also the past and the present.

Liz: Okay, now my head is hurting, too.

Jen: Interesting idea about Charlie. It seems like we're being set up for a possible Charlie demise in the season finale. If he finally dies, what does that do to the past, present and future? And for the love of God, what would happen to Driveshaft? To me that's really the crucial question of the show: When will Driveshaft drop their next record?

J. Wood: I'm not certain how much is changing -- so far they just seem like little time discrepancies, so we don't really know what else is changing.

Liz: Hey, Tupac has released 10-plus albums since his death. Maybe Charlie's brother has a cache of unreleased Driveshaft studio tracks?

On to John and Ben. I'm interested in the notion of Locke somehow freeing himself by killing his father. Why? Who or what would be satisfied by this offering? And, is it just me, or did the death of his father send John backwards, emotionally, not forward?

J. Wood: Is Ben trying to get Locke to kill his father a kind of reversal of the whole Abraham/Isaac discussion between Des and Brother Campbell? And if so, did Locke actually pass a test?
       
(If Charlie dies, maybe Des can pull something off and get a pre-dead Charlie to record a few tracks after they get off the island.)

Liz: Well, I've been wrestling with that question myself. Who is the more despicable person -- the one who actually did the killing (Sawyer) or the one who conned him into doing the killing (Locke)?


Sawyer (Josh Holloway) takes a well-deserved break from walking barefoot through a jungle with a massive knife. (Photo courtesy ABC)


Jen: I agree, Liz, about Locke moving backward emotionally. Clearly Ben is manipulating him, using the thing that matters most to Locke to work him to his advantage. (Locke can't stand to feel weak, especially in front of others, so that's exactly how Ben made him feel.) And I think he did pass a test in Ben's eyes. But I'm not sure that A-plus is for the greater good.

On that last question, I'd say Locke is more despicable. Not that Sawyer should go around strangling people, but he was put in a situation, based on his nature, that compelled him to do it. Locke is playing the same game with Sawyer that Ben is playing with Locke.

Liz: But are we to believe Richard Alpert -- the Mittelos Bioscience rep -- who says the Others are tired of Ben? Or was that all part of Ben's game?

J. Wood: One of the things I've loved about this season is how subtle and poignant the acting has become; it's harder and harder to read O'Quinn/Locke's face, and I'm just not certain that he's as much of a rube now as he was off the island.

Jen: I don't trust that Richard guy. His eyebrows have secrets. And I very much agree about the acting, J. Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) is the same way; you're never sure where she's coming from entirely, which is very hard to pull off in a convincing way. But she does.

Liz: And since her appearance was just as random, now might be a good time to add that Rousseau's appearance at the Black Rock was strange. "Just dropping in for some dynamite. Ciao!"


Jen: Re: Rousseau, there must be some significance to her -- named for the philosopher Rousseau -- coming face-to-face with Locke, also named for a philosopher. Just not sure I'm philosophical enough to explore what it means. I do wonder why John was so willing to direct her to the dynamite. Are they in cahoots of some kind? Or does he want her to blow herself up, a la Arzt? You will remember that the dynamite from Black Rock was what killed our dear science teacher at the end of season one.


J. Wood: Alpert's playing head games with Locke. The Richard Alpert from our world was the psychologist who dropped acid with Timothy Leary, changed his name to Ram Das, and became a guru. He was very interested in what motivates people to attain spiritual wholeness.

Jen: I have another Locke question. In the very beginning of the show, he was reading a file, which he subsequently burned. Should we assume this is Sawyer's? If so, why would he burn it? Or was he burning his own information, purging his old identity in a way?

Liz: I assumed it was Sawyer's file, but I suppose it really could have been Locke's, Sawyer's or Cooper's. All would probably contain the information linking the three.

J. Wood: Between Locke and Rousseau, you have two of the major enlightenment figures who dealt with the social contract; Hobbes completes that trinity (and Hobbes is probably the island itself -- the state of nature). I know we're going to get a Rousseau flashback this season, and we'll learn more, but here's one that I'm waiting for: The real Rousseau died insane. When he was starting to slip, he went to London with the real David Hume, and thought Hume was talking about him behind Rousseau's back. Hume had to write a pamphlet clearing his name. I'm betting/hoping we get some Danielle/Des tension.

Liz: And our Rousseau lives insane. Nice parallel.

Jen: Well, but is she insane? Everyone thought she was until they realized the Others actually existed. Maybe she's not crazy, just enlightened. And that's exactly what I'm wondering about the file, which is why I'm curious as to why it was destroyed. Locke wouldn't necessarily know if it was faked but if it was, there would be no way to corroborate it if it's gone.

J. Wood: The file -- do you think that was real, or was it faked for manipulative purposes? If I recall, there was a problem with the file of Juliet's sister, too.

Liz: That's right, J. Jen and I wondered if Juliet's sister's (Rachel's) file was faked to indicate she'd died to bring about Ben's desired outcome of Juliet remaining on the island.

J Wood: This is why I wonder if Locke is wiser than he seems to get credit for; if he picked up on that game, he played the same game on Sawyer (who's always getting conned himself). It's almost as if Locke is slowly laying the groundwork for his own little society of Others.

Liz: But doesn't the fact that what we assume the file contained brought about Cooper's death actually confirm that it was real info? To speak plainly -- we assume the file drew the dotted lines between Cooper and Sawyer, enabling Locke to manipulate Sawyer. That worked and the only way it could work is if the info was correct, meaning that Cooper was basically responsible for the deaths of Sawyer's folks.
 
Oh, and Jen, anything to say about Sawyer's mother's name? "Mary"?

J. Wood: That's just it. If the file was faked up by the Others to manipulate Sawyer in some way (after all, they did kidnap him once), did Locke realize that the file was faked up, and use it to get his own desired outcome?
        
Then again, there's so much six-degrees-of-separation going on here that it's just as likely Cooper was the same Sawyer.

Liz: And it did seem as if Cooper remembered Sawyer's family specifically.
      
Jen: Ooh, interesting theory about Locke, J. I think what Liz is saying is that Cooper confirmed the information when Sawyer presented it to him. And I'm not sure he would have been in on the fake-out, although perhaps he could have been. As far as the name Mary goes, the significance is obvious: Sawyer is the son of God. Or maybe not...

Liz: Well, he is rather God-like. Okay, now I've made J. uncomfortable.

J. Wood: Sawyer's the special one, not Locke.
    
Liz: Yes, that's what I was thinking, too. And I think Locke knows it.

J. Wood: Actually, Ben's calling Locke "special" links Locke back to Walt (and the first season episode called "Special"), and didn't Locke's crazy mom tell him he was special?
  
(By the way, I just looked at a screen grab of Rachel's chart; it's for a 5'11, 187 lb. man, not Rachel.)

Liz: Yes, in fact John's mother claimed he was immaculately conceived. But that was later proven wrong when John tracked down Cooper.

Jen: Totally forgot about the immaculate conception, Liz. If Sawyer really is the special one then maybe my glib comment about his mother's name is not so off-base after all.

Liz: What about Kate -- this is the second week in a row where her jealousy of Juliet has perhaps compromised the safety of the "Losties." What are we to make of her blurting out Naomi's presence to Jack?

Jen: Kate is really not happy about Jack's relationship with Juliet and she acted like a petulant child by blurting out the info to make Jack feel bad. ("Your old friends don't like you anymore. Na na nee boo boo.") From a narrative perspective, though, it sets up a nice conflict for the coming episodes. And some suspense since Juliet suggested to Jack that they "should tell her." What, we're not sure. That she's going to be kidnapped from the island in approximately three episodes?

Liz: See, I assumed that the "we should tell her" was in direct relation to Naomi. That Juliet knew that Naomi would be arriving and that she is not what she seems. Hence Jack's questions about how Naomi planned to communicate with anyone off island.

J. Wood: Kate's almost becoming a narrative tool. She's useful for doing something brash that'll drive the story along.

Liz: Yes, agreed. Kate is a tool.

Jen: I hate to use cheesy Internet parlance, but ... LOL!

Liz: So Cooper thought he was in hell. Did the writers put that theory to rest or lend it heft?

J. Wood: I think they put it to rest. They've said on numerous occasions that the island wasn't Purgatory, since we know there's some connection with the outside world. It seemed like they were toying with the idea, seeing how far people would take it even when they know it's a dead end -- which is what Bad Twin primarily was.

Jen: I thought they were messing with us again, bringing it up to give weight to the theories about the Losties actually being dead. The writers like to make it seem like certain theories might have credence, only to shoot them down. Lindelof once again said on this week's podcast that the island is not purgatory, and I believe he and Cuse have said before that the survivors are not dead (could be wrong on the latter). Either way, I think that explanation is too simple for the show.

J. Wood: What Jack and Juliet know brings me back to their working out some sort of escape plan; maybe they knew they were going to get off the island. The Naomi deus-ex-machina might or might not be part of that, but it almost doesn't matter since they've already got something in the works.

Jen: Or maybe Jack and Juliet both know that the crash was faked.

Liz: Though, based on next week's previews, a little tape recorder may bring Jack and Juliet's plan crashing down around them. Juliet will be outed as an infiltrator.

Jen: She will, but I also don't think Juliet's a bad person. She's been forced to do bad things, like Michael, because she desperately wants to be reunited with a family member. So even if she's outed, I think her reputation will eventually be vindicated. In that sense, I don't think Jack is wrong to view her as "one of us."

J, did you read "Bad Twin"? I did but I got very little out of it in terms of new insight into the show. I also read it at the beach, so maybe I wasn't reading critically enough since I was on vacation.

J. Wood: "Bad Twin" was one big red herring. It even said so half-way through, where it had this meta-moment talking about getting at the mid-point of a mystery and finding out that everything you assumed was wrong. After that point in the book, it turned into an episode of "Miami Vice". It was almost as if they were testing the audience -- how long will you mistake a colorful rock for an Easter egg?

Jen: I'm glad it wasn't just me who felt that way about "Bad Twin." In addition to testing the audience, they were also draining them of more money. Thankfully, I got my copy of that book for free. Thank YOU, Buena Vista Home Entertainment.

J. Wood: Let me ask -- we had a storm here last night, and my satellite signal dropped a couple times -- how did Locke get the tape recorder?

Liz: Locke walked in on Ben listening to it and the producers were careful to include a shot of where Ben stored the recorder. They never showed Locke actually swiping it though, so it could have been given to him. And, one could argue that Ben intentionally revealed this to Locke.

Jen: We do know that what was on it was legit, though, because Ben listened to the same message Juliet recorded last week. Unless he erased it.

J. Wood: That's what I thought; if Locke has the recorder, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben wants Locke to have the recorder. And if that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if Locke knows that Ben wants him to have it.

Liz: So Ben is selling out Juliet?

Jen: Or that Ben knows that Locke knows Ben wants him to have it.

Liz: Head hurting again.

Jen: Yes, I need an Advil.

J. Wood: Ben and Locke are starting to mirror each other; Ben even told Locke "Don't tell me what I can't do" -- that's Locke's line. (Which is partly why I wonder if Locke is working to set up another Othertown on his own terms, with him in the role of Ben.)

Liz: Yes, there's some kind of power struggle building there. And it seems as if we'll get more of it next week. Also, look for Samantha Mathis in next week's episode. You may remember her, Jen, from one of River Phoenix's last movie "The Thing Called Love."

In fact, next week's episode "The Man Behind the Curtain" promises to introduce us, finally, to the shadowy Jacob. Though, oddly, the press release doesn't list any actor as playing Jacob.

J. Wood: What if there is no wizard behind the curtain?

Jen: Is the Man Behind the Curtain Jacob, or is it really Ben? That episode is a Ben flashback so I feel like the reference is really to him. He seems to know all, which makes him a pseudo-great and powerful Oz.

Liz: Will have to go back and study up on my L. Frank Baum this week. J, should we watch next week's episode while listening to "Dark Side of the Moon?"

J. Wood: Man, wouldn't that be just like them to line an episode up with Pink Floyd?

Jen: How will we know when to cue up the Floyd? When the word "Lost" spirals across the screen? Seriously, if there is a Floyd connection, I will flip out. I'll have to drink that sedative they gave Juliet in order to calm down.

J. Wood: Maybe it'll be synced with the last Driveshaft record. Or Geronimo Jackson.

Liz: J., thank you for joining us this week. Your presence made all the difference in helping us to deconstruct a particularly dense episode.

Jen: Agreed. Thanks so much, J. Especially nice that your first initial mirrors that of John's. Have we actually been blogging with John Locke this whole time? Celebritology readers, you make the call.

Liz: Jen, did you already drink that concoction?

J. Wood: Thanks for having me on -- this was a great warm-up for the day. It gave me plenty to think about.

Continue this discussion in the comments section and in today's 2 p.m. ET Celebritology Live discussion. Also, J Wood's weekly analysis will be posted at Powells.com later today.

Next week: The Man Behind the Curtain -- Ben begrudgingly begins to introduce Locke to the secrets of the island, beginning with the mysterious Jacob.

By Liz Kelly  | May 3, 2007; 11:33 AM ET
Categories:  Lost, TV  
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Comments

This episode was just not that good. Again with the we can't let you know anything because your not ready crap, that is just annoying and shows that the writers just can't come up with a plausible way to keep the mystery going. And what did we know that was new exactly? Nothing, everyone knew that Locke's dad was Sawyer, you could tell that was going to happen ever since the first season. This episode does set things up pretty well for the last 3, though, so there is hope.

Posted by: Chris | May 3, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm still uncertain how Cooper(the real Sawyer) got to the island. He got ran off the road, an ambulance came, and he woke up on the island? When did this happen? The same time as "The Man from Tallahassee" episode?

Posted by: jdavid | May 3, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Think I have a medical anomaly: A really thorough head-banger from a TV show, not alcohol.

Posted by: RickNMd | May 3, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

jdavid - i think they were inferring that the others staged his accident and then took him to the island. kind of how they killed juliets ex to get her to come to the island.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

"We should tell her"--my (too simple, I see now) explanation was that they should tell her that computers and phones and things don't work on the island because of its hypermagneticness (technical term). They said it right after she shrilly announced the existence of the communication device.

BTW, will someone post a link to the site that lists all the Easter Eggs in Lost?

Posted by: Kelli | May 3, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

My initial thought for "we should tell her" was about the pregnancy thing, however, while Kate was blurting out information about Naomi, it wouldn't really follow for Juliet to start spilling information about "what happens to pregnant women on this island". hmmmm...

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I think the pregnancy thing could have worked there. The underlying issue was a question of trust, not so much the mechanism of how to communicate with people on the outside.

Juliet wanted to establish her bona fides with Kate. Whty? Maybe to brting her back over to Jack's side, or perhaps to get the "sample" from her.

But since Kate and Sawyer have been, ah, enjoying themselves (fairly frequently now), and all men develop super-sperm, then Kate's gotta be preggers.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Cooper's accident was staged by the Others to get him on the island. The IV was a sedative to put him to sleep for the trip, like they did to Juliet. The Others simply wanted Cooper to believe he was dead.

Posted by: S | May 3, 2007 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I believe it was "Dr. Manhattan," the blue, super-powered character, and not Ozymandias, who experienced time all at once in "Watchmen." In Watchmen, Ozymandias was a manipulative, genius billionaire, like some of the mysterious background figures in Lost. Of course, Ozymandias also makes a person think of the giant stone foot.

Posted by: HJA | May 3, 2007 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Well, if anything we learned that Juliet and Jack are conspiting together, at least Jack thinks they are.

Locke was pure Locke. Keep that character going and don't kill him off like Eko. What a waste of as well developed character. Then again, we thought McPatchy was dead...

Sawyer is about to have a breakdown. I did find it unusual that he did not want to kill anyone, and his killing of Cooper was out of rage, not premeditation. Is Sawyer becoming a hero instead of a scumbag?

Rousseau shows up for dynamite. Sure its over there... What are these writers thinking? Not like real people that's for sure. Anyone care to guess why Rousseau wants with a box of dynamite???

Posted by: Sully | May 3, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Copper might recover from his "death," like Mikhail, thanks to the Island's healing powers. Maybe that's why Locke could induce Sawyer to "kill" him, knowing he actually couldn't. Sawyer won't forgive Locke anytime soon, for that, will he?

Posted by: Alan | May 3, 2007 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I meant "Cooper," not "Copper," in my last post. Oops.

Posted by: Alan | May 3, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Locke didn't ask Rousseau why she needed the dynamite because he didn't want her to turn around and ask him about what was going on behind the dooor he was blocking.

Also, anyone think maybe Locke & Sawyer have a plan and Locke carried Sawyer back to Ben in that bag (instead of Cooper)?

Posted by: SF | May 3, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Jacob - does Ben even know who this is? I got the impression the Others are looking for some kind of super leader-type, which I assumed was "Jacob." When Locke wouldn't kill his father, tied to the pole, Ben turned around to the group and said something like, "He isn't the One." Thoughts?

Posted by: kc | May 3, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and I totally like that idea about Desmond changing the past each time he saves Charlie. I was thinking that the arrival of the new character was like "Schrodinger's castaway" -- if Desmond hadn't saved Charlie, it would have been Penny who parachuted in; he did save him, so it was Naomi instead. I think some other folks have said that already, but whatev.

Posted by: HJA | May 3, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"Also, anyone think maybe Locke & Sawyer have a plan and Locke carried Sawyer back to Ben in that bag (instead of Cooper)?"

Personally, I don't think so. That body bag was pretty stiff when Locke picked, suggesting an actual dead body :)

It seemed to me that Locke gave Sawyer that tape recorder as his "reward" for doing Locke's dirty work for him. I don't know what manipulative motives could be behind it, but I don't think Ben gave Locke that recorder... he stole it. Just my hunch. I don't think Locke is working for Ben just yet... he's still trying to get "in" with the Others and he has to produce his father's dead body to as his "initiation".

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

HJA -- you're right. Thank you. Ozymandias was the super-smart/super-rich/super-evil superhero.

And for the person looking for the "Lost" easter egg site:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Liz | May 3, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The 2 plane story line is interesting (and confusing to me). As I recall, the first episode of the show had Jack and Kate find the pilot in the cockpit. He made a comment to the effect that there had been technical problems and that they were off course by a thousand miles (so searchers would be looking for them in the wrong area). How does this square up with the footage of the supposed wreck at the bottom of the ocean? It's obviously not the real Flight 815; who is staging it and why?

Another question: With regards to the lack of communication with the outside world......when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were captured by the Others, Juliet had some file on Jack with information that had to have come from a source off the island. Am I off base here?

Posted by: JC | May 3, 2007 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Fourth comment person with no name: you mean "imply" not "infer." They are not interchangeable. Thank you.

And bloggers, "till" is not a word. Do you think you work for the New York Post?

Would Locke really have the strength to carry that beefy dead man's body?

Posted by: Pedantic editor | May 3, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Can we all please agree never to use the word 'preggers' again? Thanks...

Posted by: J | May 3, 2007 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Does he have the biggest "innie" you've ever seen, or what?

I could do a shot off that belly-button.

Posted by: Josh Holloway lover | May 3, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Sawyer is def. being set up to become the Losties leader... recall the recent episode where Hurley makes him be nice to everyone? Him coming back with the goods on Juliet and increasing everyone's mistrust of Jack is only going to solidfy him as the leader.

Kate totally sucks, btw, she doesn't deserve Sawyer.

Posted by: mango | May 3, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Boo-yah J. Wood. Shout-outs from a LostCasts fan that loves his analysis.

Posted by: Shawn | May 3, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

It almost seems like Locke is playing both sides. He may be trying to infiltrate the Others, but for two reasons: 1) his own (out of curiosity) and 2) for the Losties, to find out where they all are.

I'm really not sure about the body in the bag, but I guess it would make sense if it was his fathers, so as to prove to Ben that his father is dead. If so, do you think Ben knows that Sawyer, not Locke, killed the guy?

Separately, anyone notice that the woman who helped Locke set up his tent had two children with her later on (in the scene where Locke won't kill his father next to the tall ruin)? It was a quick pan-around scene...but worth mentioning considering the floating topic about children on the island. How did THOSE children get there?

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Preggers...

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

EricGewiz -- those children were on the plane. They were with the Tail section survivors and were stolen by the Others in the middle of the night. I believe their names are Zack and Emma.

Posted by: lostlover | May 3, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

JC - there is no "footage" of a plane being found. The episode with Mikhail is tracking televisions with international coverage of a plane going missing, it's just that: footage of planes at airports..but nothing that specifically suggests that it's footage of THAT plane (815).

When a plane goes down, there is alwaysy B-Roll that gets shown before there is actual coverage.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

then I stand (or sit, rather) corrected about that line with the children

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I like how Locke tossed his dead dad's body on his shoulder like it was a sack of dirty laundry. His dad was pushing 225, easy. You know how hard it is to carry that much dead weight? (no pun intended). Just an observation.

Posted by: he's not heavy... | May 3, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Mark my words. (always a good opener) This will make Swayer more cold and more distant. He is not going to become a hero in the classic way but will be more brutal and selfish.

Locke I do think stole the tape recorder. The tape is for real. This will finally set up the Beach dwellers to either totally distrust Jack or to divide against themselves. The others are nothing but evil and I hope the French chick was taking the dynamite to help rid the island of them.

Posted by: Still Lost | May 3, 2007 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I thought the scene with Locke and Rousseau was pretty funny -- "What are you doing?" "Looking for some dynamite. How about yourself?" "Keeping some prisoners." "Oh. Well, take it easy." The interaction may have have had to do with some specific conspiracy the two of them have going, or at secret things that they know about one another, but I'd be just as happy if all it meant was that they each, as rugged individualists, have a lot of tolerance for suspicious and unsettling behavior.

Posted by: HJA | May 3, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

HJA -- yep, I mean Dr. Manhattan. I was thinking about Lindelof on the podcast talking about Ozymandius, and goofed. But I was thinking about the big blue guy.

(Heya LOSTcasts)

Posted by: J Wood | May 3, 2007 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh, EricGewiz, where have you been? I'm sure I'm not the only one who will respond to your post, but allow me to fill you in. "The woman" Locke was talking to was Cindy, the flight attendant who was with the Tailies until she was nabbed by the Others last season and the kids were the Tailie kids, also kidnapped by the others, also last season, who she has been taking care of, as we saw several episodes ago when Jack was in the cage.

Posted by: gigi | May 3, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

EricGewiz

The kids were the ones taken from the plane, as was the woman -- she was a flight attendant.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Hey-- what do you guys think happened to Cindy and the kids while they have been with the Others? Do you think they had to "prove" themselves similar to the way that Locke was made to?

Posted by: lostlover | May 3, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

sorry - couldn't remember (I was more interested in teh presence of children, and had an alternate theory there about children on the island).

HJA - With Locke and Rousseah, I saw it as more of a "if you don't ask me, I won't ask you." Kind of a "I'll look the other way on this."

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I think Juliet is double-crossing Ben, she's told Jack about the Other's plan to storm the beach - AND Naomi is part of that plan - to DISTRACT DESMOND (and hopefully block any visions he has of the upcoming attack. She's DEF an Other - her language skills, equipment, and secret communication to Patchy "I'm not alone" signaled him that some Others have come to the island to help take out the losties (her wound might have even been planned considering the healing properties of the island)

3) I think Rousseau is planning her own vigilante attack on the Others - and since Sayid seems to trust Rousseau more than anyone - he will convince the rest of the losties to join forces with her.

Posted by: Christy24 | May 3, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Still Lost, I'm not so sure about Sawyer--he was obviously in the worst shape we've ever seen him after killing Locke's dad, but he's done pretty awful things before, so maybe he'll just bury it deep down like he does with everything else? Or maybe he'll turn to Kate for comfort?(as per usual these days) I think he has a real chance to become the new Lostie leader, and I think he knows that now that he has the tape of Juliet; not that he necessarily wants to be, but he's more trusted than Jack at this point. Just throwin' stuff out there.

Posted by: Julie | May 3, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

The others made lists of "good" and, presumably "bad" people.

Cindy and the kids were among the good ones.

Here's a thought -- Kate and Sawyer are presumably on the bad list, as are Sun and Jin.

It seems that the Others are running a breeding program amongst the condemned Losties, with Juliet monitoring the progress at the moment. Although if this was the case, then they probably could have saved the two Poochies...

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

What about the supposed healing powers of the island?

Perhaps research was conducted on this island b/c of it: meaning other medical research, not just fertility. or even, psychological, since the hatches appear to have been set up that way at one time.

Perhaps there was an evolution to the testing: whatever was being tested didn't work and the research boiled down to research of a human at the beginning of life (hence the fertility research).

Maybe not....

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Julie --

I think this is the cathartic moment for Sawyer. He actually did what Ben wanted Locke to do, kill the source of his pain, his link to his previous life.

Sawyer did it -- he made John Gage (sorry, I loved Emergency! as a kid) read at least some of his letter, and then he killed him.

Locke is pretending to have cut his ties with his old self. Its pretty clear that he's out there on his own, doing whatever he wants to get to whatever he thinks he'll find.

Also, does anyone notice how much Locke is beginning to like Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now? Coincidence, or not?....

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

So Locke is now literally going through life with the weight of his father on his back?

Posted by: Monkey | May 3, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Just a minor correction regarding "The Watchmen" comic, I believe it was Dr Manhattan and not Ozymandias who expercienced all time at once.

Posted by: Veidt | May 3, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Here's an interesting thought...Rose being pregnant? Granted, she is at the post-menopausal age, but that would be a parallel with Juliet's sister; being cured of cancer/becoming pregnant. And perhaps the island's healing powers could reverse menopause just as it boosts mens' sperm counts, ala coccoon.

Another question, Ben seems to credit Locke's presence with his newfound ability to walk. He said, something like, as soon as you got here, I started to feel pins and needles. So why would he shun Locke? Isn't he worried that without Lock there, he will have some sort of relapse? Perhaps Locke is some kind of catalyst or conduit for the island's healing powers, which is what makes him so special.

Posted by: What About Rose? | May 3, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Very true about Sawyer's catharsis, LostieLostie. And Locke IS beginning to resemble Kurtz, which ties in to other posts about Locke trying to create his own Otherville...not that I'm buying into that theory at the moment, but it is a neat parallel...

Posted by: Julie | May 3, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Sawyer could be in the body bag that Locke carried off. If you remember in the preview for next week, Sawyer walks into the camp playing the recording of Juliet.

Posted by: Clan | May 3, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Anybody remember a reference on another episode to the island being a "snow globe"? Naomi's tale that the Oceanic plan wreckage was found deep under the sea in a trench suddenly made me think back to my lost Atlantis theory (Ben's reference to going somewhere "old").

Supposing "the island" is a carefully constructed biosphere deep under the sea in the Bali Triangle built because of general pollution and/or post-nuclear Apocalypse on the "surface".

I still believe the plane could actually have crashed in the past and that all could have died - but that the Future Others went back to change the events for their own purposes.

The tractor beam explains why all the assorted vehicles get sucked down to the biosphere - and the "snow globe effect" could explain why no one apparently ever can really escape - though we don't really know what became of Michael & Walt we do know that Desmond sailed around and ended up right back there.

If the biosphere is in the "last frontier" (beneath the sea) it would explain why they needed a submarine to get there - albeit an old rusty looking one. And it would also explain why the travellers need to be knocked out for the voyage.

In this artificially created environment I think the initial project was to establish a utopia or a new garden of Eden - but something went very wrong. It's now not so much a dystopia as an anti-topia.

And, for what it's worth, I think it's Rousseau and the dynamite in the canvas bag. Whatever it was, it was entirely too stiff to be Recently Dead Sawyer Daddy. He wouldn't even have been in rigor yet.

Posted by: Jean | May 3, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

EricGewiz, about Locke and Rousseau, yeah, you're right, that's a more accurate description of what seemed to happen. Still, though, I thought it was a cute exchange because there aren't, I think, that many characters on the show who would so quickly come to an understanding like that under those circumstances.

Posted by: HJA | May 3, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Note a few things regarding Locke and his test:

The Others have been talking about him. They're excited about him and they've got some notion about him being special. His test was to kill his father only to have his father resurrect. Remember Mikhail? Locke killed him by pushing him through the barrier, and Mikhail told him "Thank you." Perhaps Mikhail saw a flash of something upon his not so long lived demise that he then told the rest of the Others. A glimpse of the other side? Something mystical? Who knows...

To test this, Ben needs Locke to kill Cooper, and prove (or disprove) his powers.

This presents a problem, of course, since Locke did not kill his father, Sawyer did. So Locke's father is dead, and will remain dead because Locke was not fully aware of his abilities. In addition, by not killing his father, Locke fails the test by not showing his power to the Others.

And before someone says it, yes, I realize that having the power to kill people only to have them resurrect is pretty lame.

Posted by: bb | May 3, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Two thoughts: 1) Coroborating Christy24's post about Naomi being an Other was Sayid's comment about whether Desomond actually saw the helicopter or not, implying that Naomi was lying. Also, her over drammatic response to his suspicions seem just that, being defensive becuase she is guilty of the charge. 2)I thought the most revealing comment of the ep was when Alpert said to Locke that the fertility treatments were just a pet project to appease Ben, that there is something beyong that work. I had thought the fertility issue was a major piece of the story, but now it seems like maybe not?

Posted by: mm | May 3, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Ben has been telling Locke he was special for a while tho, long before the Mikhail thing. It began when the Losties had Ben captive in the hatch.

Posted by: Fairfax | May 3, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

1. Ben set up Locke to kill Cooper - when he didn't, Ben said, "He isn't who we thought he was." Sawyer actually killed him - so is he the One they're looking for? Funny, if they had him in a cage all that time and didn't know it.

2. Locke claims he's not that person anymore who was crippled and obsessed with his father - then he hoists him on his back and trudges off - no symbolism there, eh? Let go, John, just let go...

Posted by: still lost | May 3, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Kate is a twit. Recently, she's been reminding me a bit of George on "Grey's Anatomy." She needs to make up her mind about what she wants and go for it, instead of vacillating in between the two like a dope.

Also, I can understand the thinking that Naomi is an Other, but what would be the point? They already have one spy and they've never really had too many problems dragging people off into the night, so why set up some sort of elaborate helicopter hoax? Just for laughs?

Finally, I can understand Des chomping at the bit to see Penny, but recently he's been a little intense. Last week, he was (kind of) defending the Others against the murderous Losties and this week he's crazy afraid of revealing Naomi's presence to Juliet (even though they are keeping her stashed two tents away). What's up?

Posted by: Bilbo B. | May 3, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Ben's analyst/therapist (perhaps, an analrapist) schtick reminded me of Star Trek V: The Last Frontier.

Spock's half brother, Sybok, had a way of brainwashing others to join him by making them relive a traumatizing moment in their life and "letting go."

Now as just a little something to throw out here. Sybok brainwashed the crew of the Enterprise to help in his search for God (the actual physical search, not a spiritual one.)

Posted by: Buck Dharma | May 3, 2007 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if they put Walter (who the others referred to as special too) through a similar test with Michael. Remember Michael went missing for several days, which what happened to him was never explained.

Posted by: Clan | May 3, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

mm --

I think the "interrogation" by Sayid was just dialog that was in line with his character. He doesn't trust anyone they meet on the island, so you couldn't have him embrace Naomi as one of their own right away. He's the mechanical whiz on the island, so that was the only credible way to get the radio into his hands. Remember how lame Hurley's excuse was when Kate found Sayid and him with the radio?

And regarding Alpert (and the others), it is beginning to look like anytime a Lostie finds him or herself agreeing with a point of view held by an Other, the Lostie has bought the Other's story and is doing exactly what the Other's want. I don't think the fertility experiments are merely Ben's pet project, or a red herring. The fact that pregnant women die on the island contradicts what we have been led to believe about the island's restorative powers. That question has to be answered.

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I agree with mm - Naomi looked at Sayid like he had said something a little too close to home - and she immediately gave him the toy that would distract him. We all know radios won't work, but they make him happy to play with.

Posted by: So Lost | May 3, 2007 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Why isn't Naomi more curious that her phone doesn't work? Has she figured it out without telling anybody?

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

LostieLostie--Locke's father is played by Kevin Tighe, who played the OTHER (ha!) param edic on Emergency. Randolph Mantooth played Johnnie Gage.

Posted by: GJ | May 3, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Clan wrote: "I wonder if they put Walter (who the others referred to as special too) through a similar test with Michael. Remember Michael went missing for several days, which what happened to him was never explained."

Actually, there was a whole episode last season where the flashbacks consisted of showing what happened to Michael during the time he was missing. He was captured by the Others, held prisoner in their fake village (complete with a fake hatch door), finally allowed to see Walt, then given a list of names (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley) and was told that if he brought these people to the Others, they would let him and Walt go.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 3:12 PM | Report abuse

GJ --

Oops, my bad, altohugh its been many years since I have seen an episode of Emergency! What was his name on the show? I cannot recall...

Posted by: LostieLostie | May 3, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Copied from the Powells.com blog:
"About Kate's name -- it being a reference to Jane Austen, and the romantic travails and love triangles that she wrote about, makes a whole lot of sense; however, wikipedia also has this to say: "Kate Cooper Austin (1864-1902) was an American journalist and advocate of feminist and anarchist causes.""

Cooper? Anyone?

Posted by: thisisfun | May 3, 2007 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Well, we don't know who Kate's "real" father was, do we? We only know she blew up her wicked step-father.

Posted by: Jean | May 3, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Kate's real father is the guy she killed.

Posted by: Fairfax | May 3, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Jean - we do know who Kate's father is.

Kate blew up her real father, and the man she thought was her father was actually not. There was an episode where she went to see the-man-she-thought-was-her-father at his military office and I believe he told her at that time that he was not her real father (that the-man-she-thought-was-her-stepfather was her actually real father...) err, or something like that... it's confusing.... the comments on this blog hashed this out a few weeks ago, I can't remember exactly how it goes. Anyone?

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 3:42 PM | Report abuse

It is well explained on the wikipedia entry regarding Kate, under "Before the Crash":

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Kate

Posted by: Fairfax | May 3, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Pedantic editor Wrote: "And bloggers, "till" is not a word. Do you think you work for the New York Post?"

And where are you from that "till" is not a word used in various forms?

Posted by: Hope you're Kidding | May 3, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Re: Ben and Locke

What is the significance of the need to murder Cooper? What motivates Ben? Why would Locke have to follow through?

IMO, the fact that Locke manipulated Sawyer to kill Cooper may be just as important as the act itself.

I think Cooper must be more central to the overall story than we've been led to believe. Maybe he's more than a "low level" con man. Perhaps, he's somehow connected to Ben as well. Maybe it was not really Locke "who brought him" to the island. It's possible it was Ben after all.

Thoughts?

Posted by: Nathan | May 3, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Tighe was Roy DeSoto on Emergency!

Posted by: b | May 3, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

It is interesting to see a characater (who only appeared in a flashback) suddenly appear on the island.

I guess in a way, Desmond could also fit into this category, but we find out that Desmond was on the island prior to the Losties being there. Do we have any evidence that Cooper was on the island PRIOR to the Losties crashing there, and Ben not allowing that bit of information to come forward?

How long was Cooper really on the island before Ben revealed Cooper to Locke?

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I believe they are all in Dante's Inferno!
What happen to him?

Posted by: Susan G | May 3, 2007 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Though this was a particularly good episode...although it was interesting that we didn't get any flashbacks and as someone pointed out a few weeks back, the flashbacks seem to be the only "absolute" true thing that we see on the show. I don't know what that means about last nights show yet.

Also of interest is the sneak peak at next week's show. For those of you with DVR/TIVO pause and go frame by frame through it. Looks like we are going to learn some really cool stuff about the old Dharma Initiative

Posted by: Black Box Finder | May 3, 2007 4:29 PM | Report abuse

re: naomi and the plane crash.

taking naomi for her word just for a moment, i see a potential plot hole OR amazing twist/revival of long unseen characters. this is a cautious theory on my part: if we were to suppose that michael and walt really did make it back to the mainland on their boat, and flight 815 really WAS reported to have been found and everyone dead, wouldn't michael and walt be walking evidence that the flight indeed DIDN'T crash in the ocean, and most people were in fact alive and hangin out on a really messed up island? that would blow the whole "everyone's dead and the plane is found" cover-up/conspiracy, or whatever it is, wide open.

Posted by: roc | May 3, 2007 4:33 PM | Report abuse

How are the Others sure that Locke "conjurede" Cooper? How do they know it wasn't Sawyer?

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Christy24 mentioned that Naomi said "I'm not alone" to Patchy...is that the translation for what she said to him post-op? Because it certainly didn't sound like "thank you", at least not in Spanish or Portuguese...and Patchy definitely had that twinkle of manipulation in his eye as he 'translated' for the Losties.

Posted by: bam | May 3, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

oops, meant conjured :)

don't want the spelling and word usage editors on my back!

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Pedantic Editor,

Regarding "till," please see the most current available copy of the Associated Press Stylebook (I'm sure you have one). Also, there's an entry on it on p. 790 of Garner's Modern American Usage.

Back to regularly scheduled programming ...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 4:38 PM | Report abuse

What about flight 777? Anybody?
Also, pedantic editor, please don't get the thread bogged down in endless spelling corrections. And AP style allows the use of "till" as short for "until."
So there.

Posted by: other liz | May 3, 2007 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Re: flight 777. I assume you are talking about the findings on Oceanic-air.com website?

There are comments about this from last week, but don't put too much stock in information mined from this website and others (i.e.: Hanso, The Bad Twin, etc). Many were created as part of The Lost Experience game from last summer, are fan sites, or are red herrings. Most have no significant bearing on the show itself....

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 3, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Lost at Work, you're right about Kate's father. The way this program has eaked out with re-runs - too easy to forget details like that. Then again, who's to say that the explanation was the "true" one. You know the National Geographic has a worldwide DNA project going on trying to connect everyone in the universe back to Lucy or some such thing - so it's entirely possible that in the end we'll find out everyone on this mysterious fantasy island has the SAME baby daddy. And that would certainly explain all the birth anomalies! :-)

Posted by: Jean | May 3, 2007 4:48 PM | Report abuse

EEK - let me correct my own spelling before the Pedantic Editor gets hold of me:

that's EKED out - this program has EKED out the past 2 years

Posted by: Jean | May 3, 2007 4:53 PM | Report abuse

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/archive/index.php/t-13798.html

Got curious and Googled "Oceanic 777"...foudn this topic thread. If you read on, fans from May 2005 state that the site states that Flight 815 is both "landed" and "on alert". Perhaps that old Oceanic site was on to somethign way back when.

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 4:56 PM | Report abuse

"Hope you're kidding"--no, I'm not kidding. Liz, is that you? A TIL is a glacial formation. UNTIL is what she meant. 'til is the accepted colloquial version of until but is best left for movie titles and band names.

Posted by: Pedantic editor | May 3, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

AP Stylebook has a lot of errors and/or bad decisions. But OK, back to Lost.

Where the heck is Vincent?

Posted by: Pedantic editor | May 3, 2007 5:16 PM | Report abuse

So I had some downtime at work and 'Lost' was on my mind, specifically the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42. I decided to experiment with the numbers to see if a corresponding letter within the alphabet meant anything. I started backwards: Z (1), Y (2), X (3), W (4) and went full circle until I reached 42 (K)

The corresponding numbers to the letters are as follows: 4-W, 8-S, 15-L, 16-J, 23-C, 42-K.

This may be shear coincidence, but the letters are arguably also the first letters of most of the major characters.

Walt; Sawyer, Sayid, Sun, Shannon; Locke, Libby; Jack, Jin, (John), (James); Claire, Charlie; and Kate.

Here's where it begins to fall apart. The letters as they would be if starting with A (1), B (2) etc. are as follows:

4-D, 8-H, 15-O, 16-P, 23-W, 42-P
Desmond, Hugo (Hurley), O ???????, Paulo, W ???????? and Penelope

This is where it really falls apart: Boone, Michael . . .and other Losties I may have forgotten are not represented.

Posted by: Fun with Numbers | May 3, 2007 5:23 PM | Report abuse

From the American Heritage dictionary:

"USAGE NOTE Till and until are generally interchangeable in both writing and speech, though as the first word in a sentence until is usually preferred: Until you get that paper written, don't even think about going to the movies. • Till is actually the older word, with until having been formed by the addition to it of the prefix un-, meaning "up to." In the 18th century the spelling 'till became fashionable, as if till were a shortened form of until. Although 'till is now nonstandard, 'til is sometimes used in this way and is considered acceptable, though it is etymologically incorrect."

Posted by: Tillman | May 3, 2007 5:23 PM | Report abuse

What about "free will"?

Ben tells Locke that he has to kill father, but how is that "free will" if he's being told to do it. Even though Locke has time to think it over, how is it free will either way?

It seems that Sawyer enacts free will be killing Cooper, but not Locke really.

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Vincent was last seen sniffing and scratching around the tarp covering "dead" Nikki and Paolo. New theory: "Vincent" is one of the Others' costumes/disguises and is actually Jacob. And that's why there's no actor listed in the credits for Jacob next week.

Posted by: Jean | May 3, 2007 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Jean - finally a reasonable theory! Vincent the Dog is Jacob. In fact, if you assign numbers to letters then V is the 22nd letter and J is the 10th, added together is 32 and another 4 for the D in Dog...anyway, I know you're right!

Posted by: LostIt | May 3, 2007 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Ok - this discussion has died - TIL next week, see ya' all then...

Posted by: Get Lost! | May 3, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

And "Vincent the Dog Is Jacob" was last seen tugging at Nikki and Paulo's tarp and they are - of course - POOCHIES

Posted by: [Insert Lost Pun Here] | May 3, 2007 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Just a thought on the inconsistency of dates and things. So Locke's comment is that 'slave ship' was from mid 19th century and has crates of "Dynamite". However Dynamite was invented in 1866 and slaving was largely gone in the colonizing countries from which the 'latest invention' could be purchased.
As for the exchange between Locke and Rosseau it seemed to be for humorous effect although I would bet the dynamite reappears later.
On the deeper historical/literary references surrounding Locke and Rosseau we know that John Locke, the philosopher had a big influence on Rosseau, the philospher. Locke's view of 'self' was hinged on consciousness which more than anyone Lost's Locke is pursuing.

Posted by: catchingup | May 3, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Burke Dharma - love the Arrested Development reference! :)

Posted by: zimmie | May 3, 2007 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Naomi said she was hired by Penny to find Desmond and was given coordinates, which were gathered at last season's cliffhanger when the hatch explosion was detected. I believe Naomi is who she says she is.

Also, Kate is a twit times 100.

Juliet's "We should tell her" to Jack could be that they are planning to ambush the Others when they come for the pregnant women. I'm not ready to believe that Jack is that gullible or that he has switched sides. I think they are planning something.

In addition, it was very nice to see Sawyer get his edge back. He is a better character when he is very rough around the edges.

Off the subject, Nauveen Andrews (Sayid) has a great role in Grindhouse. It was nice to see him on the big screen using his own accent.

Posted by: lac | May 3, 2007 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I think it's reasonably safe to assume that whatever Rousseau has planned will come up again, especially with the dynamite. Perhaps in the forthcoming event on the Losties beach camp?!

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 5:40 PM | Report abuse

By the title of next week's episode I think we're going to see Ben stripped of his facade. He has a slipping hold over the others, they're weary of him and he is suffering from a credibility gap at the moment. Not to tie back to the earlier political allusions but I think Ben has been ginning something up for a good while and his followers are about done. Locke is positioned to rip him apart but he has his own secret now--he didn't really kill his dad. Perhaps the entire show fear and daddy issues will wrap up into one big allegory to the Bush admin.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 6:01 PM | Report abuse

And of course, don't forget the lies. The lies, the lies and the lies.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 6:04 PM | Report abuse

On the trailer for next week there is an errie shot of the old Roger--Work Man patch done in a negative shot. Someone's thumb is almost touching it. There is also a shot of Hurley's bus. My guess outside guess--Ben kills Roger.

There is also a negative shot of someone in the radiation suit. Perhaps we learn about the "incident?"

There is also a shot of a spectre of a girl who is wearing a farm dress that looks a little like Dorothy.

Lastly a shot of a younger Dr. Candle on site.

Now my thumb is stiff from hitting pause.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 3, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

forgot about the radiation suits...perhaps that had somethign to do with the mysterious healing power of the island / mysterious ability for men to be more potent.

Maybe there was a split between the Dharma people in hatches, and the above ground others. Perhaps they were rebels at one time, and now control the island. that would be just trippy. But, I gues we'll have to wait for Bens crucial flashback episode.

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 6:51 PM | Report abuse

one other thing to comment along the lines of real time occuring in some way: the scene where Jack is shown the Red Sox winning the World Series. This si a real event that happened that has been introduced into the timeline of the show. I think this was important at the time to display real time to Jack, but also now to us as viewers to display other theories. With that scene in mind, I can't imagine that these Losties and Others are in a time-warp necessarily. Consider that when the footage was shown to Jack, that even would have already occurred, based on dates of real time. I can't prove this technically, b/c I don't keep track of specific days on a calendar, but they've proved that the footage was shown after mid-late October, sicne they're now past that.

Posted by: EricGewiz | May 3, 2007 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Look, the real question about Locke is, who's conning who? And secondly, is Locke going to be a hero or the ultimate good-guy-turned bad? You have to start from the premise here that we, the audience, are being conned as well as the characters, so our analysis of any character's motives is meaningless because we have no idea who is lying and who is telling the truth.

If you go way back to Claire's episode in Season 1, she has a dream where she sees Locke with one white eye and one black one. Locke says to Claire, "you gave him [ your baby ] away -- now everyone has to pay the price." I have always wondered how closely this dream corresponded to reality, since it kind of sets Locke up as a bad guy.

This week, either Locke knows more than he is letting on, or he is a complete dupe for the Others. If the price of admission to the Others' inner circle is that Locke has to kill his Dad, you know that one of two things will happen: either what he has just done will make him completely evil, or he is actually one step ahead of the Others and knows that what he is doing is not completely evil. Remember that Locke has already murdered McPatchy -- quite casually -- so he either knows that McPatchy would come back to life, or he has decided that knowledge is worth any price he has to pay -- in which case he will become the ultimate bad guy.

I'm hoping that Locke turns out to be a good guy, since he's the character I identify with more than anyone else on the show, but at this point I understand there is no way to know for sure -- this whole plot is just one giant hall of mirrors right now...

Posted by: Steve | May 3, 2007 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Finally caught up! Nothing to add really, just still laughing about "His eyebrows have secrets."

Posted by: KG | May 3, 2007 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I think there is no Island. We've never seen anybody actually arrive there. I think we're in a warehouse in Tallahassee.

Posted by: bob | May 3, 2007 9:27 PM | Report abuse

I love Rousseau but you know if she's taking a crate of dynomite that nothing good is going to come from it. Given her nasty little surprises sprinkled throughout the island I wouldn't be surprised that she uses the whole crate to blow Ben up!

Was I the only one who found it odd that Cooper started using a southern accent once Sawyer was in the room - he's displayed a hint of one before. Maybe this wasn't the real Cooper just like Eko saw a not the real Yemi.

Ben has told us that the box is a metaphor and that Locke brought Cooper to the island. Juxtapose this ideal with Ben's statement to Jack: "Two days after I found out I had a fatal tumor on my spine, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. And if that's not proof of God, I don't know what is." What if the island is the metaphorical box that gives people what they want. It's given Locke the purpose he has long serach for in his life, it gave Sawyer the man, whether the real one or not, up for his plan for revenge, Juliet want her sister cured of cancer, Desmond wants desperately for his Penny ti find him and lo and behold his search party comes from the sky, etc... If you think about it the list could go on and on.

Final thought: I love J. Wood's comments on Lost and would LOVE to have him back on Dueling Analyses - Please, please please. BTW, the Island should give me what I want.

Posted by: dre7861 | May 3, 2007 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Did they say that the plane wreckage was found off of Bali? Wouldn't that be the wrong direction if they were flying from Sydney to LA? Hmmmm...

Posted by: Todd | May 3, 2007 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Some thoughts:

Till is a valid word. All the dictionaries say so. Old English you know. Even my firefox browser doesn't complain. Now thats real proof! Funny though, it complains about the spelling of "firefox"!

Was anyone surprised that after Kate said she would keep the secret about Naomi being in the tent she marched over to Jack and spilled the beans. I now understand why Jack does not want Juliet to tell Kate anything. Kate seems to always betray her word when convenient.

Its been noted that the Others cannot force the Losties to do things they do not want to do, thus Bens manipulations to get them to do what he wants. Well, here was Ben doing his best to manipulate Locke to kill his father. Locke could not. I'm guessing this was not just Locke being timid but Locke refusing to submit to Ben's manipulation. Locke then manipulates Sawyer to kill his father, successfully. I'm thinking Locke is going head to head with Ben and though it looks like Locke lost to Ben, he actually won, and Ben does not realize it. The problem though is that Ben is getting stronger now that he's out of suburbia and living in the woods, as Locke said would help him heal. The Others are interested in Locke for a good reason. He's already shown them he will be the one to follow in the future. Why I have no idea.

Posted by: Sully | May 3, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse

What Jack and Juliet know is that getting off the island is easy--there is a plane that can quickly take everyone off. This whole island trip is a psychological test for the "lost ones"--just to gauge how human beings might behave when faced with a struggle for survival. The secret they will one day discover is they are struggling with their own demons, not with the fact of having been marooned.

Posted by: Sartre | May 3, 2007 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Vince got a better job on cable. Till next week!

Posted by: Pedantic editor and Vince the Lab | May 3, 2007 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Best lines: Sawyer has his nicknames back - "Tarzan", "Bald-headed bastard"
Sawyer again: "You're under cover with the Others?"
Cooper: Calls Ben "Bug-eye". Could he really be Sawyer's father?

Posted by: LoveSawyer | May 3, 2007 11:18 PM | Report abuse

J. Wood writes: "They've said on numerous occasions that the island wasn't Purgatory, since we know there's some connection with the outside world. It seemed like they were toying with the idea, seeing how far people would take it even when they know it's a dead end -- which is what Bad Twin primarily was."

And of course the show's creators would NEVER lie to us, would they? Certainly not if the people watching the show guessed the SECRET the very first season and they didn't want to just say "Yep, you got it, all of the fun we were planning on having with the show over the next 4 years doesn't matter anymore, we will tell you when you guess our secret because it doesn't matter to us." RIGHT!

Posted by: Colorado Kool Aid | May 4, 2007 12:30 AM | Report abuse

I thought the episode was very clunky and full of silly dialog, although it did have some interesting developments. But, I have two questions: Why was Sayid alone in the woods digging a hole? And where in the world did he get a shovel? They don't usually have them on planes, and I can't see why they would have one in the hatch. Just some nitpicky stuff.

I agree with another post-er that Cooper's body was way too stiff. Something else is in that sack. Maybe some old skeletons? Kidding.

Posted by: susancpv | May 4, 2007 7:59 AM | Report abuse

susancpv - Good point about Sayid digging whatever he was digging in the jungle! Hurley came up on him and he seemed surprised to be caught, but Hurley didn't ask any questions, so as per usual, we have no answers. I completely forgot about that... what the HECK was he doing? (Though I'm going to let slide the fact that he had a shovel... We've already had to suspend disbelief enough times regarding the amount of good tarps and rope that have shown up on the island for all 40 some Losties to build their tents with, among many many other things, that at this point the shovel seems minor :) )

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 4, 2007 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Wow, multiple analyses AND an English lesson all in one this week!

I think the writers are finally moving the plot along somewhat, but I find some of the character actions they used to do this somewhat obvious -- i.e., Kate blurting out the information about Naomi. I find it hard to believe in the context of a life and death situation, with Juliet there who is an "X" factor, that Kate would potentially endanger the lives of everyone. I have a feeling that Ben's point about Locke killing his father is that Locke MUST be the one to do it - it has some sort of symbolism. These people all seem to be here on the island to work out their stuff.

Pinky

Posted by: Pinky | May 4, 2007 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Hey "whataboutrose"...I like your theory. Does anyone recall that in the first season(?) right after the crash, Rose is sitting off away from the other Losties gazing out at the ocean and someone sends Locke over to talk to her. Doesn't she say something about the island being special? Or powerful? She seems to know that Locke has been healed and that she has been healed of her cancer. And she's so certain that Bernard is alive. There was some type of understanding between them. Or maybe she just saw him pre-boarding in the wheelchair and I'm totally wrong. Or maybe Rose is the special one?

Posted by: rnm | May 4, 2007 9:59 AM | Report abuse

1. up to the time of; until: to fight till death.
2. before (used in negative constructions): He did not come till today.
3. near or at a specified time: till evening.
4. Chiefly Midland, Southern, and Western U.S. before; to: It's ten till four on my watch.
5. Scot. and North England. a. to.
b. unto.

Posted by: till | May 4, 2007 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Two things I noticed that haven't been mentioned yet:

1. Didn't the first half feel kind of silly -- what with everyone "sneaking" around (in plain sight) and being "stumbled upon"? Hey - what are you doing? -- Nothing -- What's that?" For a minute I thought I was watching Desperate Housewives.

2. The Ben-dares-Locke-to-kill-Cooper scenes felt very Return of the Jedi to me "Take your light-sabre and strike me down, Skywalker!" Is Ben trying to get Locke to come to the dark side?

Posted by: bklyn | May 4, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Also, if Rose were to become pregnant, it would be another nice biblical parallel with Abraham's wife Sarah, who gave birth to Isaac at a very old age--in her 90s I think.

Posted by: what about rose | May 4, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone has metioned this. Did anyone notice the giant pole Cooper was tied to? I had flashes before my eyes of the 4 toed statue. Is that what Ben meant to when he said they were going to an "old place". I hope the writers dig a little deeper about the whole ancient civilization angle. On a side note - can we please stop arguing over each others grammer. I love reading this site and would really hate to see it turn into a debate on who would do better in 9th grade english. Just a thought

Posted by: SEARCH:LOSER | May 4, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Sully wrote: "The problem though is that Ben is getting stronger now that he's out of suburbia and living in the woods, as Locke said would help him heal."

Great catch! I had forgotten about Locke's little lecture to Ben a few weeks back about how the Others were "Pharisees" who had lost touch with the island's powers by living lives of comfort. If this struck home with Ben, it would explain their sudden abandonment of Otherville, as well as Ben's recovery once they were back out in nature and his remark that he has Locke to thank for it.

RNM on Rose and Locke: "Or maybe she just saw him pre-boarding in the wheelchair and I'm totally wrong." An earlier flashback did in fact show a brief encounter between Rose and a wheelchair-bound Locke in the departure lounge at the airport.

Posted by: Doc | May 4, 2007 11:43 AM | Report abuse

SEARCH:LOSER, there's a very good screencap of the pillar here: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/ I can't figure out what the piece is, but it does look like a remnant of a monument or something as it does have stairs leading up to it.

I've wondered if the four-toed foot is from the future since it's believed that human beings will lose a toe as we evolve. The confirmation that Mittelos is an anagram for lost time made me think about that again. For awhile I wondered if that statue was of Jacob, but it sounds more like they are referring to someone living in the present than say an idol they worship. There was a Jacob (Vanderfield) on the Hanso Foundation board of directors, but I doubt that's "him" either.

Posted by: Tresbien | May 4, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Silly me, I thought a till was a cash register :D

Posted by: Dumbdaddy | May 4, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"I've wondered if the four-toed foot is from the future since it's believed that human beings will lose a toe as we evolve." -Tresbien

Oh No! Not the end of "Planet of the Apes"!

"Well, you've finally made a monkey out of meeeeeee!"

Posted by: bklyn | May 4, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Combining two posts above, that IS really interesting that once Sawyer got in the room, Cooper sort of changed his demeanor and adopted Saywer's mannerisms (Southern accent, use of nicknames, etc.) almost as though it was Sawyer acting through Cooper (like Sawyer was putting words into his mouth, or manifested him maybe?) Then again, maybe Sawyer has just been mimicking Cooper all along as part of his revenge plan. Good catch, though!

Totally second the idea about Kate being a device to move the plot. She's forever charging into the jungle for no reason, getting all riled up and confronting the Others to the point where its almost ridiculous -- her latest tattle is right in line with this. Either she's a total moron or is working for the Others to get the Losties to be in certain places at certain times - which seems unlikely at this point. Her and Jack are still annoying.

Maybe Sayid was digging up Nikki & Paolo for the diamonds? Seems like an unlikely candidate but who knows.

Sawyer is definitely being groomed for a leadership role. Is this so we viewers won't miss Jack too much when he gets killed off? That character was originally supposed to get killed off in the first ep, and Matthew Fox does have some movie roles lined up... and I doubt he'd be terribly missed at this point either.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 4, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

---I've wondered if the four-toed foot is from the future since it's believed that human beings will lose a toe as we evolve.---

Close. Its a statue from the future of Homer Simpson, the next great prophet man will adopt and worship (I already do). :-)

Really though, the whole ancient civilization thing is definitely something to wonder about. I see two senarios, a real ancient culture that thrived on this island due to its natural healing environment, or, the island is in the distant future and the ancient civilization is what is left after Dharma rose to dominate the world, which then destroyed itself in a nuclear war. The Others are traveling back into the past to save future humanity that apparently cannot bear children in the new environment. Smokey would be a future weapon still active. But that still does not explain pirate ships, planes, and such crashing on the island. I have to admit, if all these pieces fit together the writers are doing a good job of keeping the key pieces secret.

Posted by: Sully | May 4, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Well, Sully, Homer did write The Odyssey, which has frequently been compared with Lost. ;-)

Posted by: Tresbien | May 4, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

The most logical reason for Sayid to dig a hole is to create a place to use the bathroom. However, as a woman, I would move my camp to the hatch that has the working toilet. That would have been the most exciting find in my opinion.

Posted by: lac | May 4, 2007 3:19 PM | Report abuse

dang! it took me three days to find this thing.

okay so big question(s):
1. what aren't the two snobs telling the other losties?
2. was that really the guy who "killed" sawyer's dad.

1. i don't know and i don't want to know until next week.

2a. i don't think that was the guy who conned sawyer's mom. otherwise locke wouldn't have burnt the file. but then again he burnt the file cuz he didn't want ben to find out that he got sawyer to kill him. so not sure about that either. but it would be nice if sawyer actually got his revenge and that dude HAD to die.

2b. also this means that sawyer can finally let go of that boar.

someone on here suggested that hurly is THE MAN. i'm begining to believe that he is more and more he gives up secrets...

Posted by: dealer | May 4, 2007 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Hadn't considered the prospect that Locke tricked Sawyer but kind of doubt it since Alpert seemed to know about it and of course the way Cooper copped to it. But there is something to the way he went into down home southerner mode the minute Sawyer showed up and the question of whether this was really Cooper or a metaphorical representation. I never believed that Hurley's inmate pal was really there or Kate's horse or Jack's dad walking around for that matter so why I am so ready to believe that this was really Cooper I'm not sure. And yet, the car crash/knocked out in the ambulance sounds like a perfect way for Alpert or someone to spirit him from Tally to the Island. If that's how they did it then the metaphorical box stuff is just another Ben lie.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 4, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Sully, we're almost on the same page. What explains all the vehicles "crashing" onto the island is the giant tractor beam (which causes the electromagnetic disturbances) aimed at them. Because the Others (at least the "clairvoyant" Others) come from the future - they can go back and insert themselves into the historical timeline in any period - and they've looked for whatever it is they are looking for genetically through pirate ships, helicopters, hot air balloons, etc. That tractor beam is so powerful it could even pull a drug plane off course from Africa right down into the Bali Triangle.

Of course my latest spin on this theory is that the island itself is actually a construct (biosphere) way beneath the sea's surface because of the same nuclear war or general hole-in-the-ozone pollution that caused The End of Civilization As We Know It, ruined the Earth's surface. That and that Vincent is Jacob in disguise.

Posted by: Jean | May 4, 2007 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Jean, I don't think we're on the same page. Tractor beams? Remember that the Others were shocked to see the plane break up and snapped into almost military action as though it was a threat, not something they wanted.

One thing I am wondering about though. I could have sworn that in the first episode they were in a storm when things started to break up. But the Others see the plane in clear skys breaking apart. If true that would add to any "portal" theories.

Also, everytime we blog about supernatural possibilities it usually is revealed as a somewhat reasonable explanation. I'm still hoping time travel is not involved here and that Dharma made some spectacular leaps in technology and other sciences as the orientation film said. I'm hoping the Dharmanians became divided into two camps ala 'Lord of the Flies'. One camp erected statues to themselves and considered taking over the world with their newfound powers. The other camp, our Others, defeated them and are protecting the island and its powers from those who escaped and may return. Penny's search for Desmond may be Penny trying to return to the island, an island she or her father was rejected from years ago by the Others. So the Others may look at Naomi and Penny's ship 80 miles away as an invasion. Now that would be cool. If its just star trek tractor beams and vulcan mind melds, well, I've seen that already ... know what I mean?

Posted by: Sully | May 4, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

What Juliet wanted to tell Kate (and Jack didn't since Kate can't keep much to herself) is that they're double-crossing Ben. But Ben knows that since he pointedly let Locke overhear then steal the tape. That will cause dissension back in the Losties camp and allow him to execute whatever his plan is.

And Naomi is working for Penelope. She has the picture, she's with the guys who were at the North Pole in the last episode of the 2nd season.

Posted by: SteveH | May 4, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Colorado Kool Aid:

There's spoilers, foilers, and what we know. Whenver Darlton have come right out and absolutely affirmed something, that's proved out (like with Des and time). Anything that's been left open, they've hedged (like they did with Mikhail and Pikki being dead).

Would the writers leave it as obvious and simple as being in purgatory? Given the way things have turned out so far, I kind of doubt it.

Besides, they've changed things up along the way based partly on the audience response, like turning Ben into a full-fledged character. Even if they did do something as simple as purgatory, do you think they wouldn't change it once everyone started crowing about it? Again, I kind of doubt it.

Posted by: J Wood | May 5, 2007 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Oh wow... very enlightening J Wood: Early on in the first season, ABC put up a (fake) Web site about the crash of Oceanic 815, and it claimed that the Hanso Foundation was managing the recovery mission.

That is totally not true. There was no Hanso until season two, the site you mentioned never existed. There was a document on the oceanic site that said it was being turned over to the DOD, NOT Hanso.... cripes...

Posted by: HACK! | May 5, 2007 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Hey J. Wood: Early on in the first season, ABC put up a (fake) Web site about the crash of Oceanic 815, and it claimed that the Hanso Foundation was managing the recovery mission.

Totally not true at all. There was no Hanso in season one to begin with. There was a document that turned up on the oceanic site that said the search effort was being turned over to the DOD, not Hanso.

Posted by: Wrong | May 5, 2007 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Sully,

I think there are two groups of "Others". There are future (probably far future) Others who can insert themselves into the timeline and who appear as clairvoyants only because they already know what's happened. Those would include the monk, Mrs. Hawking, etc. The other Others (pun intended), headed by Benry, may include some near future folks (like Benry himself) or they may actually be contemporaries of the air passengers. It's the Future Others I think operate a tractor beam - and the other Others may not, in fact, know about it or have figured it out. I think the other Others are some sort of descendants or proponents of the original Dharma project, which I think failed miserably and became a kind of antitopia for reasons I don't yet know. As to whether any of us may have seen any of this before . . . well . . . there is very little in the way of TV or movie entertainment these days that is totally original. Part of the reason is that what's proven successful in the past seems to be a better investment than what's truly novel. "The Singing Detective", original UK version, was original, making "Cop Rock" something of a retread a mere 4 years later. "Lost" never was that original, as enjoyable as it is.

Posted by: Jean | May 7, 2007 11:19 AM | Report abuse

theosophists (JACOB Boehme has a Theosophy connection) equate shamballa with hollow earth with an entrance at the poles hence looking for coordinates at the north pole

http://synchromysticism.blogspot.com/

Posted by: synchromystic librarian | May 7, 2007 5:12 PM | Report abuse

OK, did no one else connect 1) Ben's manipulation and lies, 2) his demand that Locke kill his father, and 3) the fact that Locke killing Cooper would probably have the OPPOSITE effect of what Ben claimed?

Come on!

How many times have we heard about feuding family members lamenting not making peace after the other dies? The death of an estranged family member usually brings on mondo regrets in anyone with any conscience.

Locke can suppress his conscience when logic dictates he should, but he is far from amoral. If he killed his father himself, he would forever have unresolved issues about how his father used him, and he would be unable to either seek his father's approval or repudiate him after he's dead.

So, basically, Ben is trying to trap Locke emotionally, not free him. Locke MAY have found a loophole, although he may actually have fallen into the trap anyway, unless he somehow quickly made his peace with his dad being a total parasite, and gave up on him, but then he still pretty much killed him by arranging for it to happen, so I'm not sure what the point of that was...unless it's true that if Locke had killed him, Cooper would have spontaneously revived.

Posted by: The Lost Avenger | May 8, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Lost will officially end in 2010 with only 48 episodes in the next 3 seasons!!!!

Posted by: !!! | May 8, 2007 11:22 PM | Report abuse

One more thing, I think Danielle is going to use the dynamite to blow up the electric fence.

Posted by: SteveH | May 9, 2007 10:25 AM | Report abuse

If, as the Losties demonstrated, one can just climb OVER the electric fence, why would Rousseau need to blow it up? Unless she was planning on driving or carrying or sending something large through it...

Me, I think Rousseau has other plans for the dynamite....

Posted by: Lost at Work | May 9, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

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