I really don't like the move of "Lost" to 10:00pm. It's past my bedtime. But I so enjoy watching and chatting at the same time, so I guess I will give it a shot.

Question that just occurred to me as I was reading the Dueling Analyses... When Michael & Walt left the island, were they going on the 31-degree vector? Also, is the 31 degrees related somehow to the 31-minute time delay? Seems an awful big coincidence that the number 31 appears twice in relation to the same problem...

FWIW, the South Asian tsunami hit on December 26, 2004. And Oceanic 815 was "found" in a trench off the coast of Indonesia. And the Black Rock could have wound up in the jungle as a result of a tsunami. Don't know if this will be relevant or not, but it would be kind of cool if it did.

Did anyone else notice on the calendar that Oct 20th - 23rd weren't crossed out? I don't know the significance, but it must mean something.

JJ? That you, Abrams?

I had this pointed out to me, and I had completely forgotten. Thought it would be good for you and Jen's Lost discussion, if you both had forgotten like me. Eko's prayer stick was carved with 'Look north, John 3:05' and the helicoptor was following the heading North 305.

I don't usually comment but I soooo loved last nights episode that I just have to. The show could have ended last night for me and I swear I would have been happy with it! Desmond-centric episodes always bring the show to a higher level - make it more than just a sci fi tv show - which is funny cuz his episodes always have so much sci-fi/psychic stuff in them. Don't know if it is just great acting or what, but he really brings a heart to this whole thing.

Love all the information we were finally given last night...I feel like the time elements are being well cleared up and the connective tissue is being filled in between the story lines. Plus it makes me realized (for now at least) how much less interested I am in Jacob/Smoky than I am in the physics possibilites of the Island.

Last nights episode was interesting as well because it goes to show how little we need with the all the ben/lock/jack mumbo jumbo kate/sawyer/jack/juliet romance mumbo jumbo...one good well acted thoughtful challenging story line is all it takes to make a great hour.

PS - anyone remember Jeremy Davies from Solaris? What an odd but endearing actor.

Last night's episode was one of the best of the entire series, hands down. What surprised me was just how caught up I was in the Desmond-Penny relationship. I think that's waaaay more interesting and engaging than the horribly drawn-out nonsense with Jack-Kate-Sawyer. Yeesh!

Actually, I'm now convinced that time travelin' Des is the Adam to Penny's Eve.

OMG, what a great episode. I agree with the previous poster that the series could end here and I'd be happy. Although I think I'd be happier if we retitled it "Desmond" and just followed him around for the next 3 years!

Are you sure it's not pronounced "Cheney"? There are a lot of guns on the island, after all.

I throw it out for whatever you can make of it. The phrase "unstuck in time" was used to describe Desmond's plight. In Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five," there is the sentence, "Billy Pilgrim had come unstuck in time."

Not everyone needs a constant. Sayid, for example, seemed to leave the island without any problems. No reason to believe that Walt would need one.

Oct 20th - 23rd are crossed out in yellow.

Is it worth noting as well how strong this season has been given that the creators now now exactly how many episodes and how much time they have to tell this story?

Also - this is clearly a show that benefits, in ways I don't think any other show does yet, from the back and forth between audience and creator made possible by the Internet.

They are able to respond to Niki/Paulo audience reaction and we've already gotten the whole bracelet question resolved with Naomi/Elsa.

Can you imagine how differently the X-Files might have played out if the creative people new their end date three years out and could be as responsive to the audience as the Lost creators are? Maybe I'm just daydreaming...

My theory on why Daniel didn't recognize Desmond... This will probably give me a headache to try to explain but I'm gonna give it a shot. I think the time travel is sort of happening simultaneously to current events to when the freighties got to the island Dan & Des had never me.

Once Des went through the storm & started time hopping he talked to 2004 Dan who told him to go visit 1996 Dan. I think once '04 Des hopped back & visited '96 Dan then '04 Dan's notebook changed. I think If Daniel had checked his notebook before receiving the call from Desmond on the freighter there would have been no note about Desmond Hume.

No my brain is cramping up & I must take a rest before I start bleeding from my eyes.

Great,great ep- boy was I moved by the Des/Penny exchange at the end of the show (so happy she gave him the # in 1996). That's a love story I'll take anyday over that insufferable Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle. The time travel, numbers, and constants were at times completely over my head, yet I could sit back and thoroughly enjoy this show- I'm really enjoying the ride and hope the writers continue to churn out more of these really interesting and entertaining episodes.

I think that Mr. Widmore knew that leaving the water on in the bathroom would trigger Desmond to jump through time. Someone with more time on their hands will have to see what triggered each of Desmond's time jumps and if those jumps were intentionally triggered by others (like the doctor and the flashing light and possibly the soldier who bumped into Desmond, making him drop his coin). Mr. Widmore is definitely controlling a lot on this show.

Desmond had problems I think because of his exposure when he blew the failsafe - Faraday suggested as much when he asked if he had been exposed to radiation or electromagnatism. Sayid seems okay - as does Lapidus et al because they haven't suffered that kind of exposure and the helicopter was kept on specific coordinates that apparently keeps people "on track" mentally/timeline wise.

God, I hated last nights episode. This show is turning out just as stupidly sci-fi geeky as I had feared.

I don't know if anyone has commented on this yet, but is anyone else nervous about the absense of Claire outside the island and the fact that Kate has Aaron?

In season 1, the psychic told Claire that terrible things would happen if she was not there to raise the child. He even went so far out of his way to purchase the plane ticket for that fated flight so she would have no choice but to keep him.

Then in season 3, Desmond tells Charlie that he saw both Claire and Aaron make it off the island in a chopper. Charlie gave his life to make that vision come true.

So this bothers me, because if Daniel Faraday is correct and you cant change the future (which is somewhat contradicting as Desmond changed Charlie's eventual death several times), then Claire must get off the island at some point.

What bizarre characteristics will this child develop in the absense of his real mother?

Last night's episode was fine. Not great, not good, but fine. I was frustrated with the barage of new information. It felt like in every scene we were close to getting new information (Charlotte telling Faraday not to talk...Ben's man on the boat helping out Sayed).

I'm not a big fan of the sci-fi turn LOST is taking. Black smoke and monsters are one thing, but physics and time travel..with no explanations?!

I think the comment in Farraday's notebook clearly indicates that he has also come unstuck in time. Maybe after his experiments with Eloise the rat, he started making attempts with himself. At any rate, this would dovetail into the first show of the season where he's clearly become unstable and may have a caretaker looking after him.

Lots of great reveals in last night's episode.

I think Desmond has the ability to change the course of the past and of the future. Thus, the reason why Farraday doesn't recognize him when he (Farraday) first gets to the island was that the past didn't start changing until Desmond leaves the island and starts having flash/back/forwards that change things.

Loved the bit about the Hanso logbook/auction.

This season has been a real corker.

So, it seems to me, that last night's episode implied that the "last" meeting b/t D&P was when he obtained her phone number, followed by their next "contact" when he phoned her in present-time from the boat. But, I thought that in past seasons, all the relationship development between D&P happened after he was released from the army...am I missing something here, or am I remembering incorrectly, or is it all a bunch of time travel mysteries?

"So this bothers me, because if Daniel Faraday is correct and you cant change the future (which is somewhat contradicting as Desmond changed Charlie's eventual death several times), then Claire must get off the island at some point."

Desmond didn't change Charlie's future--he only delayed the inevitable.

Last night was amazing. I never really gave too much thought to the Desmond/Penny story other than the obvious - that she was trying to find him. It was brilliant how caught up I became with it.
My confusion about the whole thing is why only some people are affected (ie- not Sayid). It can't just simply be something about exposure to radiation...
Could it possibly be linked to something that happened in the past that a person needs to take a different path to survive whatever outcome?
That would tie into the whole needing a constant in both times...Desmond had to stop running and find Penny in 1996 so that he would reach Penny in 2004 and survive the whole time switching stuff. That was the major shift he had to make in both times - contacting Penny.
The only thing I don't agree with is Faraday's comment about not being able to change the future...If Desmond went back and told Penny to be by the phone in 8 years, and then he called her and she answered, then he altered the future...right?

Who would have thought that after the first season the most interesting/relevant characters would be people we hadn't seen yet? Desmond, Widmore, Ben, Juliet, Faraday, Miles - Jack, Sawyer, Kate, even Locke seems so pedestrian and relatively "lost" in comparison.

Chris--Interesting..when has it not been sci-fi geeky. Its been like that since the second or third episode of Season 1.

True last nights was more then normal, but you have to admit it was great storytelling.

I think if at any point in time you experience the "side effect", i.e. time travel, it affects you for the whole of your life. Remember Desmond looked happy just after he had a fight with Penny, because in a crazy way I think he was experiencing the relief of talking to her at the same time (in 1996 and 2004).

From this I think Daniel will also experience side effects. Having established a possible Constant lets the door open, and would explain why he got so emotional when he saw news of the downing of 815. He was able so experience the sadness of the future in his past...

Question when 2004 Des takes over 1996 Des where does 1996 Des go? Like when he passed out in the staircase did he not wake up and wonder why he was in the staircase?

"I think that Mr. Widmore knew that leaving the water on in the bathroom would trigger Desmond to jump through time."

I don't think so; I think Widmore has OCD and is a germaphobe- did you notice how he turned the faucet on with a paper towel? Notwithstanding that, it is possible that the running water triggered Desmond's time jump- just don't think Widmore did it intentionally.

Faraday explained to Desmond that he had to have a constant - something that existed in both time jumps. That is why Faraday made a note in his notebook that said that Desmond would be HIS constant. Desmond is the only thing that Faraday knows will exist in both past and future. Desmond told Faraday in 1996 that he met him in 2004 on an island. Therefore, Faraday knows that he will exist then. That's the only thing that 1996 Faraday knows about 2004.

I think Daniel's comment about not being able to change the future may be more philosophical than scientific. Your future is based on everything that's happened in your past & present. It's not a constant thing, it's ever changing based on the choices made as the result of free will.

Hmm, it's not a constant thing... maybe that's why people who become 'unstuck in time' need a constant. Something the rest of us presumably don't have?

Anyone notice that the light Faraday shined on Eloise was the same purple color as the light from the exploded hatch?

I posted a comment last week about Aaron's age off the island, and I'm going to continue that theme here with some (maybe) random thoughts on time.

I think two things are happening with time: 1) Desmond's time travel and physical time travel.

Let's consider: When we see Dan with his caretaker as he hears about the crash, he's upset and weak. Perhaps the upset (and illness) are caused by time travel. Maybe he's already been to the island, and so knows the people there. That could explain why Desmond is his constant: He got to know him in some other time and came to care for him. (If I remember correctly, Dan told 1996 Desmond that the constant had to be something that he really cared about.)

Charlotte, too, could have been to the island already when she finds the bones of the polar bear -- she could have recognized the symbol from being on the island. (This would also explain why that guy never ages. It's not immortality. It's time travel.)

However, Miles' segment in that episode seems to be a more simple flash back or forward, depending on where you are in the story.

If both physical and conscious time travel is possible, Desmond has experienced both -- in last night's episode and when the hatch blew. What's interesting about that is that one kind of time travel made it possible for there to be a second kind.

Also, the calendar on the boat said 2004, but that does not mean that the boat is in 2004. In fact, if the Losties have been on the island 100 days, Christmas of 2004 would have already passed. The crash was on Sept. 24, and Christmas Eve is 91 days past that. The calendar could have indicated days in time that the boat was searching or, more simply, could mark the days of the year that the search went on for Oceanic flight 815.

We still have no idea what year the folks on the boat think it is, though we know that Penny's been looking for Desmond for three years. Those three years do seem to coincide with how long Desmond's been on island, which raises the question of how time seems to move more slowly on island in some instances, but not others. That question might be answered, in part, by saying that time is fluid on the island. A few weeks ago the rocket landed 31 minutes after the person on the boat said it should, but there was a much bigger gap in the time it took the helicopter to fly to the boat, i.e. 20 minutes stretched to 40 hours.

All of this is making me a bit crazed.

Not everyone needs a constant. Sayid, for example, seemed to leave the island without any problems. No reason to believe that Walt would need one.

Posted by: Tirade | February 29, 2008 11:36 AM

You only need a constant if your brain time travels and you need to control it (so as not to die like the mouse or Minkowski). Sayid has not been experiencing the time travel side effects of traveling to the island (remember, Minkowski said it started happening to him and the other guy on the ship - who died - when they took the skiff to check out the island one day), so he does not need a constant.

How did Eloise learn to run the maze? In the episode, Farday says that he was going to teach the rat to run the maze an hour after she ran it, but then the rat died about 75 minutes later (Des passes out shortly after the maze run, wakes up 75 minutes later and the rat is dead). Can you really teach a rat to run a maze in 15 minutes?

Did anyone remember Penny telling Des she'd been looking for him? They had broken up in 1996, he went on his sailing race in ???, and he finally contacted Penny in 2004. BUT she said she'd been "researching" (her word, I believe)and presumably searching for him for three years. Which means she started "researching" in 2001. Is that the year of the sailboat race?

Also, re: changing the future, there's a great Andy Warhol quote: "They say time changes things, but actually you have to change them yourself."

First - they're not physics majors. I decided that they were double majors in Philosophy and Physics (don't laugh, I knew quite a few of those) with minors in English, or at least a voracious reading appetite. The literary references this show uses are astounding.

Second - I think you can look too hard for meaning on this show. My thought when Desmond showed up at the auction? "Man, he must still know how to charm his assistant." Remember, he dated Penny for quite some time and spent time in Widmore's office. Our Des is an awfully appealing kinda guy (*sigh*) - I'm sure he could find out from an Admin Ass't where Widmore was that evening.

I, personally, have decided just to enjoy the Lost ride. I try to avoid spoilers (I used to look them up all the time), and now just take the show one episode at a time.

At some later date, I may spend the week on Lostpedia that it obviously needs to read about all the other associated materials (the games and web sites and such). Bt I'm confident the writers will wrap up everything through the primary method of the show by the end of it all. Good story-telling on TV is so rare these days, I'm going to enjoy this while it lasts ;)

I am not surprised that Kate being the "mother" of Aaron was kinda overlooked by Liz and Jen -- The Des/Penny story is just pure brilliance.

But I am very curious to see how the writers figure out how Kate can actually be Aaron's mom. Clearly she wasn't pregnant when the US Marshal captured her, and its highly doubtful that he would be operating in such solo manner that no news of her health/appearance would be known by others (e.g., Australian police, US embassy staff, etc.)

So how can Kate be presumed to be Aaron's mom? How do you crash on an island as an uber-skinny, and then leave well before a pregnancy could possibly be carried to term with an infant, looking just as uber-skinny?

Did I miss something???

Oh, and for the time travel stuff? I refer to "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me":

Austin: So, Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumeably, I could go back and look at my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and traveled back to the '60s? [goes cross-eyed]

Austin: Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.

Basil: I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.

Basil [to camera]: That goes for you all, too.

I am SICK of this! GIVE ME BACK MY FRIDAY LIST! I do not want to do the list on Tuesday, or any other day that is not Friday. I hope Lost gets cancelled!

LostieLostie, that's another point about time. Kate's mother says she got sick four years ago, so we know that time has moved differently off island than on island. So it's possible that the rest of the world believes that the Losties were lost for much longer than 100 days -- about four years it seems.

Maybe Walt is the "friend" on the freighter since he has powers and might have been able to open the door with no one noticing and ruin the communications equipment without anyone finding him on the ship.

For fft5305, the numbers on the compass in the helicopter represent increments of 10 degrees. So, to keep it on a 305 degree bearing, the pilot was trying to hold it between the "30" and "31" marks.

On the paper that Faraday gave the pilot, it said "40 m @ 305" and "7 k east". So it seems that there is a specific hole through which people can transit to and from the island, and the boat was east of that, for some reason. But why the mixing of miles and kilometers, if that's what it was?

And speaking of bearings: at the end of season 2, when Michael and Walt take the boat, Ben tells him to keep it on a bearing of 325 degrees and he'll get rescued. Close, but not the same. Sigh.

Kate's trial and flashback must take place a few years in the future. Aaron is older, she has been out of jail pending trial, etc. It takes a long time for the courts and DA to prepare for a huge trial like hers.

::Also, the calendar on the boat said 2004, but that does not mean that the boat is in 2004. In fact, if the Losties have been on the island 100 days, Christmas of 2004 would have already passed. The crash was on Sept. 24, and Christmas Eve is 91 days past that. The calendar could have indicated days in time that the boat was searching or, more simply, could mark the days of the year that the search went on for Oceanic flight 815.::

I'm pretty sure Dan told Desmond that it was 2004 after asking him what year he thought it was (1996). Also, Desmond told Penny he would call her on Christmas Eve in 2004 when he begged for her phone number. It was indeed Christmastime when Penny answered the phone, judging from the decorations in her living room.

Also, when Jack mentioned they had been on the island 100 days, maybe he meant "around 100 days" and not literally 100 days?

I've resisted the time-travel theories that have been posited up to now. Doc. Jensen and his interview with LindeCruse cleared up a lot for me. The problem with time travel is the paradox of altering the past and its effect on the future and the very person that made the change. LindeCruse pointed this problem out in Heroes: Future Hiro warns Present Hiro to save the cheerleader and save the world. But there would be no need for Future Hiro to do so once Present Hiro succeeded. There must be a corrective mechanism to prevent this type of loop from happening if time travel is to be possible. It looks like Lost is putting forth that time/space jumpers go crazy and die from nose bleeds before they have a chance to alter their own futures. And that "the Constant" is the means for preventing a paradox from being created. That's brilliant! Now I'm a believer.

So Faraday asks if Desmond has been exposed to a lot of radiation or an electromagnetic field - clearly, he had been. In the1996 scene at the college, Faraday donned the lead apron to protect himself - Desmond asked why he didn't need one - Faraday said that he was doing this experiment some 20 times a day, so his exposure was pretty high. Desmond asked about what was protecting Faraday's head - it was Faraday's memory or something that he was working on with Charlotte on the island - so - maybe Faraday is looking for the island to heal something that is wrong with his head do to all of the radiation exposure.

Also - the lot number of the journal was the same as the number that Desmond gave to Faraday at the college for his machine.

Thanks Jen and Liz for another great analysis....

I wanted to comment on your Walt discussion. I'm not sure it's necessary for someone to have a "constant" but that there is a high risk that one's mind will not grasp what is going on with the shifting. An anchor/constant helps figure out the situation.

If that is the case, then maybe Walt doesn't need a constant. They say kids pick up things easier than adults. Note Walt was a fan of comic books. To him maybe this isn't a hard thing to understand because for a child - fantasy/reality isn't quite as split.

LostieLostie - Here is the link to last week's analysis: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/celebritology/2008/02/lost_dueling_analyses_eggtown.html

I'm guessing everyone's noticed the reappearance of the "numbers" : the journal was lot #2342 at the auction and Faraday's machine had to be set at 2.342 oscillating at 11MHz. But why 11 Hz?

Question when 2004 Des takes over 1996 Des where does 1996 Des go? Like when he passed out in the staircase did he not wake up and wonder why he was in the staircase?

Posted by: petal | February 29, 2008 12:00 PM

When Des's brain/consciousness goes back to 1996, his 2004 body is just limp with glazed over eyes - like when we saw Minkowski, right before he said, "I was just on a Ferris Wheel". When 1996 Des was visiting Daniel and he blacked out for his brain to go to 2004, remember Daniel said he had to catch him and move him to the chair.

I don't think the show itself has done anything to suggest that Kate is passing Aaron off as her actual biological son. The only suggestion of that really was her mother wanting to see her grandson, but even grandparents of adopted children consider them grandchildren.

No, I don't think we need to figure out how Kate had a baby on the island - rather I think her mother status to Aaron is also a part of the hero story they created for her when the Oceanic 6 left. Aaron is being "raised by another" by someone not his mother, as was foreshadowed.

On the issue of why Dan didn't recognize Desmond during their first meeting on the Island...

I thought it was because in the 2004 island time line they hadn't yet met in the past.

That is, Daniel didn't tell Desmond to go to Oxford until Desmond was on the freighter. So, they hadn't yet met in 1996. My theory is that if Desmond were to see Daniel right now, Daniel should remember meeting him in 1996.

Does this make sense? And does it make sense in the context of other things? Am I ignoring something?

I seem to recall the woman named "Hawkings" in a previous episode. I think I get it now.

Lost is based, I believe, on Stephen Hawking's theory of parallel planes of existence. We don't move through time, time moves through us. Or I should say various dimensional planes move through us. Time as we know it, doesn't really exist. Desmond's consciousness is, literally, able to go from one dimensional plane to another; therefore he can be in different times/places at once. Lost isn't about "time travel", it's about inter-dimensional travel.

The fact that the island is evidently powered by geo-thermal energy, it's unique magnetic characteristics, and it's obvious effect on the perception of time tipped me off. This is probably a product of the magma beneath the island or something.

If this is the basis of the show, it's really quite brilliant.

The comment that intrigued me the most about the time travel is that Faraday says that people or in his case Eloise can "travel" any length of time from an hour, to a day, to several years in Desmond's case. So I wonder if Faraday lists Desmond as a constant, but actually travels back to a time when Desmond was already on the island, there would be no way to contact him. It wasn't enough that Des knew that Penny was around. He had to talk to her to fix the time travelling. So if Faraday can't talk to Desmond, he might not be able to fix it.
Also, Faraday doesn't become catatonic at odd intervals right now. So if he is time travelling it must be in the future to an event that hasn't occured yet, but clearly affects him as he's seen crying in front of the television when he doesn't know why.

To MH: Don't get "Lost?" Then get lost!

Pat states "Lost isn't about 'time travel', it's about inter-dimensional travel."

Actually in an interview on another site, Cuse and Lindehoff (sp?), the writers of Lost, say they are not relying on alternate realties. They say they don't like it as a writing device, because it removes some of the emotional investment in the characters. (i.e. it's OK if something bad happens, because in some other dimension they are OK)

They want what happens in Lost to actually happen in Lost

Maybe the island itself is stuck in time, it has shifted just off the normal time route. So time there appears as the same constant as the outside world, but the island actually exists about 20 minutes behind.

This could account for the reasons why you cant find it. The island is there just behind in time.

Nice of them to bring back the numbers.

As for the identities of the last two members of the Oceanic Six, if next week's episode is Juliet-centric, that could just mean that Sun and Jin will be "revealed" together in episode 7, given that that seems to be a popular theory. If that turns out to be the case, could you let those of us who don't read spoilers (but don't mind getting such info after the fact) what the basis of the Sun/Jin speculation was?

RE: Also, Desmond told Penny he would call her on Christmas Eve in 2004 when he begged for her phone number. It was indeed Christmastime when Penny answered the phone, judging from the decorations in her living room.

We know that it's probably Christmas Eve when Penny answers the phone, but we don't know which Christmas Eve. If Desmond did not call Penny on Dec. 24, 2004, then she might have started looking for him. Hence the, "I've been looking for you for three years." I'm unclear on Desmond's sailing around the world timing, though, so I might be trying to shoehorn my theory in.

About Kate adopting Aaron: I don't think it's at all likely that anyone would let a suspected murdered adopt a baby, even if that baby had been stranded on an island with her. I think everyone believes that Aaron is Kate's biological child. Otherwise that kid would have been in protective services in a skinny heartbeat.

All right. I think I'm going back to work. Thanks for all the good thoughts.

Petal, Dan told Desmond in the lab that he had been catatonic for 75 minutes. Desmond was on the boat for 5 minutes (or so) during that time. Sooo, Desmond doesn't physically so anywhere, but his mind sure moves around a bunch!

Mh - obviously, you didn't read the exchange between Liz and Jen because they alluded to something for us Losties by next week. I am guessing that it may move this forum away from "Celebritology," so please stop being put out by those bunched panties of yours.

::The crash was on Sept. 24, and Christmas Eve is 91 days past that. The calendar could have indicated days in time that the boat was searching or, more simply, could mark the days of the year that the search went on for Oceanic flight 815.::

Here is what lostpedia had on the number of days on the island. Additionally the crash took place on September 22nd not the 24th

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Eggtown

*Day 95 is Christmas Day, 2004, and Day 96 is December 26, 2004 - also the day of the Indian Ocean Earthquake and Tsunami that killed over 225,000 people in 11 surrounding countries.

That is, Daniel didn't tell Desmond to go to Oxford until Desmond was on the freighter. So, they hadn't yet met in 1996. My theory is that if Desmond were to see Daniel right now, Daniel should remember meeting him in 1996.

Does this make sense? And does it make sense in the context of other things? Am I ignoring something?

Posted by: JF2 | February 29, 2008 12:54 PM

Precisely what I said earlier about changing the future. If Desmond didn't find out until 2004 that he was to go and meet Faraday in 1996, then when he actually went and met the 96 Faraday, he altered the future and 04 Faraday would now remember them meeting.
It seems to me that Faraday has unknown head issues caused from all of the radiation though, and may not realize things until he is healed by the island (which looks to be happening with the whole cards thing...)

A quick shout out to those of you who were on the live chat last night. For some masochistic reason, I logged on even though the show hadn't even started here in L.A.

My own little time loop ! Following a conversation about something that hadn't "happened" yet... at least to me.

Weird and Funny. Luckily, a few kind souls expressed concern about the effect this might have on my sanity and urged me to log off to avoid ruining any surprises (as if..)

So many thanks to you who helped me get back on the right vector to my own TimePlace. Awwww, My Constants!

Jnliep (aka Cam)

"God, I hated last nights episode. This show is turning out just as stupidly sci-fi geeky as I had feared.

Posted by: Chris | February 29, 2008 11:46 AM "

Right...so what clued you in? The exploding electromagnetic hatch spewing out the naked man from season two or the smoke monster from even before that? Welcome to the party! Sheesh.

In the toilet scene, Mr. Widmore seems to make a point that he isnt actually the one who dislikes Desmond so much. Obviously, he could just have been referring to Penny, since she was upset about the break-up, but, for a moment, I thought he was referring to someone else who dislikes Desmond, perhaps the giant puppetmaster who had some reason to want Desmond to make it to the island. Anyone else catch that?

I thought I'd pass along this excerpt from an interview show runner Damon Lindelof did with a fan site about the new Star Trek movie due out in '09. (Directed by J.J. Abrams, Lindelof is producing.)

It seems a major influence on this episode "The Constant" was "All Good Things", the series finale episode of Star Trek The Next Generation.

The interview was posted on Feb. 28th on www.trekmovie.com:

TrekMovie.com: So quickly then, what is your favorite series, movie and episode?

Damon Lindelof: Favorite movie: Wrath of Khan. Favorite series: Next Generation. Favorite episode: the series finale of Next Generation, where it starts with Picard picking fruit with Geordi and he sees Tasha Yar and so on and so forth. I would go on to say that it is probably the best series finale of any television series ever.

TrekMovie.com: In a way it almost feels like Lost feels now, with the flash forwards and flashbacks.

Damon Lindelof: The episode tonight ["The Constant"] is our version of "All Good Things" which we had to do at this point in the series and not at the end or we would be really ripping it off. It is definitely an homage to that sort of storytelling

Also, when Jack mentioned they had been on the island 100 days, maybe he meant "around 100 days" and not literally 100 days?

Posted by: | February 29, 2008 12:36 PM

Actually, he said it had been 100 days since he'd seen the Red Sox play, not 100 days on the island. So 93 days on the island plus his week in Austrailia could give him 100 days since he's seen the Red Sox play.

There was a Christopher Reeve movie called "Somewhere in Time" in which his character, using self-hypnosis, travels back in time to 1912 in order find a woman from an old photograph he has fallen in love with. The plan works until he finds a modern object in his coat which breaks the hypnotic time travel spell, and keeps him from returning to the past and the woman. The modern object is a 1979 penny. A Penny, i'm just saying...

"If Desmond went back and told Penny to be by the phone in 8 years, and then he called her and she answered, then he altered the future...right?"

No, he altered the present by somehow having his mind go back to 1996 where other choices were made. In other words, the 1996-Dan says, you cannot change the future. In Lost it seems the mind can travel *back* in time, do something different and change the *present*.

Dan's memory card trick indicates to me that he is already prepared to come back from the future to the present day island where he can change events to avoid disaster. I believe this is what the whole Dharma thing was about and what Ben is doing, living with this power, more comfortably than Desmond, to bounce back from the present to the past to make a change and thus change the present.

For example, imagine Ben is talking with Locke in the present and learns about his dad. Ben slips back a week or two into the past, calls a buddy in Atlanta and says pick up Locke's dad and ship him to the island. The minutes later Ben's mind is back in the present and Locke's dad is locked in the closet.

It reminds me of the end of the movie Bill and Ted's Great Adventure. As time travelers they can physically go into the past, so when they need the keys to the jail they are locked in, they have to remember in their future to go back into the past and hide them in the cell. Ted looks in that spot and finds the keys!

Such an ability would certainly allow the world to be altered if done carefully. Ben says the Others are saving the world and are the good guys. If they have learned to harness this ability carefully and use it to change events in the past to make the present different, then Ben could truly saving the world. It also explains his confidence, even as a gun is pointed to his head or his face being beaten to a pulp, as to how things will turn out.

It also indicates Charlotte has this ability. She was wearing a bullet proof vest when Ben shot her after all, indicating to Ben that she could travel into the past as well knowing she will be shot.

Now, imagine two foes who each have this ability, each going back to change something to harm the other. It would be fun to watch and I expect we will (no, I'm not back from the future to tell you this :) Sort of like a wizard's duel.

I think that Sun and Jin have to be the final members of the Oceanic 6. Sun wants to have her baby off the island, but if she leaves Jim behind he will have no real way of communicating unless someone magically picks up Korean.

With regard to Danial Faraday, he may not be so innocent after all. Perhaps he wasn't looking out for Desmond's best interests by telling him to visit him in 1996 - but for his own. By sending Desmond to visit him, it created a constant for him - something he would know in 1996 and something he would know in 2004... which is going to lead to Daniel Faraday becoming a much more intelligent (and dangerous) character on the show.

I think that time travel in the Lost is working on a different system than many people here understand. This is not the Back to the Future model, where there is a static past and present and an unset future .

In order to avoid paradoxes, time is static. The future is set, individuals are just walking along the path. There may be slight fluctuations at a given moment, but you can't change the future end state.

So, Desmond always time traveled in 2004, and Dan and Des always met in 1996. Dan "forgot" because he had to so that he would send Des on the boat, so that Des would travel back and see him in 1996. If Dan had remembered, and tried to stop Des from getting on the boat, he would've gotten on the boat later and travelled etc. It's likely that Daniel would've never come to the island or discovered time travel if Des hadn't come back and influenced him.

The same way, Penny looked for Des all those years because he told her he would call her back in 2004. The current Present on Lost relies on his time travel already having happened.

Every time travel has to loop-- it has to develop in such a way to allow the person's present to remain unchanged. In many ways, the time travel HAS TO CAUSE the person to time travel, or can't stop them from time traveling.

If it doesn't, paradox. Does that make sense?

Here's a theory for Faraday's memory problems. If he's been experimenting with time travel (specifically, sending people into the past to talk to earlier versions of himself), then his "memory" would be very unstable. That is, if your past is changing, then a memory would be a hard thing to maintain.

"Then in season 3, Desmond tells Charlie that he saw both Claire and Aaron make it off the island in a chopper. Charlie gave his life to make that vision come true."

Desmond might have 'seen' Claire and Aaron get off the island, but Claire might not have made it back to the mainland. Maybe her mind gets fried and she dies from the looney-tunes nose bleed. It's possible she returns to the mainland but isn't one of the O6 (like Ben), but I don't think she'd leave her kid if she had a choice, especially with those dire warnings she's had not to let someone else raise him. So something must happen to her after she and Aaron leave the island.

Bevjims,

I don't think Ben has the power to travel back in time whenever he wants. If he did, he would have likely not lost all his men in the raid on the Losties, and he would've been able somehow divert Jack from calling the freight.

Unless he's lying about that, too, and wanted Jack to call the freight. You never know with him...

DC

According to the timing worked out on Lostpedia, the losties have been on the island 96 days, while it's only been 94 days since the crash in the outside world. That would somewhat jibe with the delay in Faraday getting the rocket, and the strange 'time-leap' the helicopter took between the island and the boat.

So it's XMas Eve in the real world, and the day after XMas on the island (the day of the big tsunami). Maybe they're going to tie-in the tsunami as being caused by a disruption in the time barrier, causing the island to 'snap back' to the real-world time? Be interesting if they do that (and pull it off). Doc Jensen did say a lot about the island being "unstable" in his pre-show column yesterday.

Oh, and Des has been on the island for 3 years, so he crashed there in 2001. He said something about living in the hatch pushing the button for 3 years way back in the beginning of season 2 ("Orientation", ep. # 3).

Remember that Desmond has time traveled before--when the hatch exploded and he traveled back in time and met the old woman in the antique store. He almost proposed to Penny b/c he thought he'd been given a second chance to make things right. But then he gets sent back to the island.

Also, it had to have been December 24th b/c Des told Penny that he'd call her on Christmas Eve 2004 and he did.

Best. Episode. Ever.

Considering Eloise the rat, someone pointed out that Dan said after the rat ran the maze that he was about to train the rat to run the maze in an hour. An hour and 15 minutes later Eloise is dead, so how was Eloise trained?

The solution is that Eloise *was* trained by Dan but in the unaltered 1996 future. Once Eloise's memory comes back after getting zapped by Dan, and then running the maze, the future changes. Eloise dies and is not trained. Dan now knows Desmond and that the time travel works using Desmond's information. And there is no causality loop to consider. One possible future is destroyed and a new one plays out. Eloise dies. Desmond gets Penny's phone number which he did not know.

What is clear though is that the present changes from the time you go back, not from the past forward, or Desmond would have known all along what Penny's number was, and Dan would have known Desmond.

I'm still not clear what happened to Minkowski. How did he get "zapped"? And who takes a skiff and travels 40 miles in it? Maybe they just needed someone to help explain Desmond's time traveling, but the situation seemed hard to believe, even for Lost.

Has anyone considered that maybe Walt came from the island originally? I don't remember all the episodes, but I believe the Michael did not know about him at first. That might help explain his strangeness....?

So I googled "Kahana" (the freighter) and came up with this website for Prof. Michael Kahana at the University of Pennsylvania. Check out his Research Interests:
Human memory and its neural mechanisms: especially episodic memory, spatial memory, and recognition memory.
We do a lot of work on brain oscillations, and also on computational modeling.

Hmmmmmm......
http://memory.psych.upenn.edu/~kahana/

What a great episode!

2 Questions I hope some other Lost viewers can help me with:

1. After the conversation Desmond had with Penelope on the boat at the end of the episode are we to imply that Desmond now has all of his 2004 pre-helicopter ride memories back or is he still 1996 Desmond but for the time being able to stay in 2004 (albeit understandably confused) without jumping back due to making contact with his constant (Penelope)?

2. Can anyone explain the Eloise situation? How could Faraday have jumped her mind into the future and taught her the maze when she ultimately dies after coming back from being taught how to navigate it in the future? Could it be that Eloise exists in both times and what happens in one doesn't necessarily effect the other? Sorry if I make zero sense, my brain hurts and I have little knowledge of physics and the like.

Any theories? Thanks!

Desmond's bout with time travel last night reminded me of a book I read - The Time Traveler's Wife. Anyone else out there read it? The wife of the time traveler almost died several times trying to have a baby. Each pregnancy she had resulted in the fetus dying as well as her hemorraging and almost dying herself. This may be the same thing happening to the pregnant women on the island...
I can't remember exactly, but the book explanation went something like this...the fetus would travel to the future, then back into the womb. Upon reentering the womb it would be identified by the mother's immune system as a foreign being and attacked.

@Zoey - Yes this episode totally made me think of the Time Traveler's Wife. The stories aren't exactly the same since in the book he is physically traveling time, versus just mentally, but I think there are definite similarities that could be drawn.

"They are able to respond to Niki/Paulo audience reaction and we've already gotten the whole bracelet question resolved with Naomi/Elsa."
---------------------------------------

Did I miss this? How was it resolved? I seem to remember Elsa finding a similar bracelet in the middle of a desert with some dharma stuff. I don't remember the explanation of how it got there and why naomi had a similar bracelet.

bigdaddy wrote: "Here's a theory for Faraday's memory problems. If he's been experimenting with time travel (specifically, sending people into the past to talk to earlier versions of himself), then his "memory" would be very unstable. That is, if your past is changing, then a memory would be a hard thing to maintain."

Good observation but I don't think its quite right.

If Desmond travels to see Dan multiple times, it is Desmond's mind that will get confused. Dan's will be like anyone elses since he has only one past he experienced, just like we all have one past. You see, Desmond is altering his own past when he travels but is altering Dan's future. Dan cannot know his future has been altered, so his memory will be like anyone elses. Desmond however will have different memories as his past keeps changing. For example he was in the army and then via traveling he is in the army being disciplined. Maybe another travel and he breaks a leg, then another travel he does not break the leg but marries Penny. After a while what is real can become messy since you remember all of the pasts. Dan however, since he does not travel, has a single normal memory that was shaped by him sending Desmond to him in the past.

Wow, after a while it all seems so obvious!

On the paper that Faraday gave the pilot, it said "40 m @ 305" and "7 k east". So it seems that there is a specific hole through which people can transit to and from the island, and the boat was east of that, for some reason. But why the mixing of miles and kilometers, if that's what it was?

Posted by: JJ | February 29, 2008 12:34 PM

I don't think they are mixing. I think that is 40 meters altitude at bearing 305 and the boat is located 7 kilometers east of the island. Which would indicate a very small window.

MH- democracy rules. If you can recall, Liz ran a poll about what should be the Friday topic (Lost discussion; Friday lists, etc). Majority of voters selected the Lost discussion.

will said: "I'm still not clear what happened to Minkowski. How did he get "zapped"? And who takes a skiff and travels 40 miles in it? Maybe they just needed someone to help explain Desmond's time traveling, but the situation seemed hard to believe, even for Lost."

Minkowski said they were waiting off the island for a 'long time and got bored'. I don't know if they'll ever answer it, but my immediate assumption is that they were on the skiff and near the island when Des blew the hatch, so they got hit by the same blast of electromagnetism.

What that leaves open is why hasn't it affected others the same way, especially Locke, who was also close to the source? It may not have affected the folks on the dock (the others with their captives) because the mountains were in the way and shielded most of the radiation. Same with the folks on the beach -- the jungle may have absorbed most of the radiation traveling there way. So maybe Minkowski and the other guy were affected because they were out on the open water, maybe inside the 'time barrier' around the island, and got the full blast too.

But that still doesn't account for Locke....

I was wondering why Faraday could not be Desmond's constant until he said it had to be someone Desmond cared for (or something like that). So, in order for Desmond to become Faraday's constant, that must mean they have had more interaction at some point than what we saw last night. Perhaps after we last saw Desmond in 1996 in last night's ep, he and Faraday become friends - up until Desmond leaves to sail around the world??

"They are able to respond to Niki/Paulo audience reaction and we've already gotten the whole bracelet question resolved with Naomi/Elsa."
---------------------------------------

Did I miss this? How was it resolved? I seem to remember Elsa finding a similar bracelet in the middle of a desert with some dharma stuff. I don't remember the explanation of how it got there and why naomi had a similar bracelet.

----------------------------------------

Never mind. I confused Elsa with Charlotte. And it was a collar, not a bracelet.

@jps:
Locke probably hasn't been affected by the blast because he hasn't attempted to leave the island. If he tried to leave, he too would probably experience the same mind-time-travel that Des did.

explain them for *US* English majors.

Random thoughts -

In the Odyssey, Odysseus (Des?) tried for 10 years to return home to his wife Penelope. When he returned, Penelope at first did not recognize him, but later did -- maybe this portends a happy ending for Des and Penny.

Also on names. Wasn't Tom Sawyer believed to be dead and then came back? Based on this, I think Sawyer will be one of the O6.

Is anyone named Frank (N. Furter), Brad or Janet? Because I think the losties are in a time warp again.

Last, a suggestion for the Lost book club --Jasper FForde's Thursday Next series. There's lots of time travel there with the Chronoguard and they discuss the need to change the past and then reenter the present carefully so as not to cause a rift in the timeline and disrupt the future.

Pat- Time is not something that passes through you...and this is surely not what Hawking has theorized. Time is a dimension (in fact the fourth dimension) along with the other common three spatial dimensions.

The issue with time is that it is RELATIVE. This is the basis of Einstein's special theory of relativity. If you think about e=MC^2, the C^2 is the speed of light, which is a constant. Hence, if you increase mass then consequently you increase energy and vice versa. If you think of space-time as the top of a mattress then when you put a bowling ball on the mattress the area around the ball (the part that sinks in) will warp the fabric of space-time itself. This distortion is equivalent to the force of gravity. So if you shine a light across the mattress at the ball it will have to travel around the ball (in essence, down the curved portion and then out again). Since light travels at a constant rate and is traveling the same distance (whether the ball is on the mattress or not) time is actually slowing down by the effects of gravity (since the light will take longer to reach its destination because the path is not a straight line anymore, it is curved).

Maybe something similar is going in with the island. The search for a complete Unified Theory also theorizes that electro-magnetism may be in fact be related to the force of gravity (explaining some of the hatch issues).

Didn't Dan's journal entry say "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant"? That implies something went wrong. Right?

WAsn't it 11 HZ and not 11 MHz? 11 HZ is an extremely low frequency and for a radio signal to be broadcast at the frequency an antenna of several kilometers' length is required. But maybe if it was involved in the time travel mechanism antenna length is irrelevant.

Such an ability would certainly allow the world to be altered if done carefully. Ben says the Others are saving the world and are the good guys. If they have learned to harness this ability carefully and use it to change events in the past to make the present different, then Ben could truly saving the world. It also explains his confidence, even as a gun is pointed to his head or his face being beaten to a pulp, as to how things will turn out.

Posted by: bevjims1 | February 29, 2008 01:59 PM

Then if they are using this to change the outcome of something, then they are changing the future, not just the present. And, in 1996, 2004 IS the future.

I had forgotten all about Mr. Eko's stick and the message to Locke to "look North". To me "the constant" meant your "true north" - to get your bearings in life/time/space, etc. Not the "magnetic north" - because that's too susceptible to fluctuation - but your "true north". And it may also relate to those Brazilian guys Penny supposedly sent to look for Desmond who heard/felt the electromagnetic implosion at what I now guess must have been the North Pole. Metaphorically speaking, you have to know the difference to know "which way is up".

Interestingly, the Bermuda Triangle is one of two places on earth where magnetic compasses point to True North. That's where the laws of physics are suspended and all sorts of air and sea craft are supposed to paranormally disappear.

re: Pat states "Lost isn't about 'time travel', it's about inter-dimensional travel."

I read the same interview with CusLind and agree. However, I think the poster above meant something more like this: Think of Reality as an apartment building. Des (2004) is on the 8th floor; Des (1996) is on the 4th floor. His mind can essentially take the elevator from the 8th floor down to the 4th and back (or to a higher floor). He is still in the same building (i.e. the same reality). When he telephones Penny in 2004 they are on the same floor just different rooms, therefore there is no alternative reality. Alternative realities would mean that Des (2004)'s mind would travel to the next apartment building and talk to the Penny on the 8th floor of that building.

"Then if they are using this [moving consciousness back in time] to change the outcome of something, then they are changing the future, not just the present. And, in 1996, 2004 IS the future.

But they are doing it from the present (2004), not 1996, so in the present they are changing events in the past (1996) to change what exists in 2004. But nothing they do with this technology will change events in 2008 (the future w.r.t. 2004).

Everything before the present is in the past, and changable by this technology, and the future cannot be changed since it has not happened nor can be known. But the present is known, and if something has happened that you do not like, you can send your consciousness into the past and carefully alter things so what you do not want to happen in your present time will not happen.

This is not like typical sci-fi time travel. Desmond could never go back before he was born. And he cannot travel to where he has not been. He can only travel back into his past, into his body, where his body was at that point in time, which sort of limits what he could do. If Ben and the Others are doing this on a massive level to keep the world safe, then it must be happening with a lot of people, and people who could effect a change on a national level, say, to avert a war. Mr. Widmore could do that. But it all depends on keeping the island safe I assume, and thus Ben's willingness to do anything to "protect" the island.

WOw, how can anyone not like last night's episode? That was probably the best episode since the 1st season. Im loving season 4 so far. My prediction: Sayid ends up killing Penny's father as he and Ben are in a tug of war over who controls the Island.

"Didn't Dan's journal entry say "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant"? That implies something went wrong. Right?"

It implies Dan zapped himself a few times, did some traveling of his own and probably anticipated some unexpected traveling (as Des experienced) when he was at the island. It also may point out Dan and Des became good friends after Des visited him in 1996. I expect that change, which Dan just experienced, to have an effect on Dan's attitude to the Losties.

Also, Charlotte must be time traveling as well. Its the only thing that explains her wearing a bullet proof vest in the jungle when she gets shot by Ben. And Ben, seeing the vest, figures out she is traveling, which makes her as dangerous as he thought.

I think Desmond deserves a spinoff. All of the episodes surrounding his character have been, far and away, superior to the other ones. Especially this one.

Maybe Ben and Desmond move into an apartment together in NYC, and hilarity ensues as Ben has to adapt to not living on a tropical island anymore?

Does anybody think there is significance to Desmond having "flashbacks" -- ok maybe they weren't flashbacks, but contemporaneous trips to the past, but from last season's finale all the existing characters flashbacks stopped and the show included flashforwards. Only the people from the boat were shown in flash backs.

of course, Des has always been different -- used to be able to see the future, now his is seeing/living the past.

And he wasn't on 815.

NW DC . . . you brought up my point. grr!

i also think that farrady has experimented on himself. if you recall, when they "discovered" Flight 815, he broke down and started crying. when asked why, he replied (forgive me for paraphrasing) "i don't know why"

as for penny's father . . . hard to use a journal to find a plane that won't crash for another 8 years. that being said, i do believe he has some sort of motive for buying the book. then again, why were all the other people placing bids? is that really what the ultra-rich do with their time?

finally (i think), one could argue that desmond didn't change the future. yes, he did manage to save charlie several times, but even desmond admitted that he couldn't do it forever. eventually charlie was going to die. the inevitable may be delayed, but never undone.

ok, i lied . . . not finally. i am wondering if the color coded calendar (thank you for the screen shot . . . i too thought there were some days not crossed off) might have something to do with the general safety of trying to get to the island. red days may be safe days to attempt to travel. black days less safe. yellow . . . don't even think about it! color coding could be wrong, but i'm thinking that may be the case. wasn't richard alpert pressuring juliet to make up her mind as quickly as possible? perhaps that safe window was closing and then they'd be stuck. anyone know for sure how long the freighties (boat people is kind of offensive) have been on the island? did they make it there on a monday?

ok, seriously, i'm done. but i may be back. thanks for reading. feel free to respond to this.

Just a couple of quick comments:

1. The "missing" Desmond is the 2004 Desmond, not the 1996 Desmond. 2004 Desmond disappears the moment his 1996 consciousness wakes up in the helicopter, and doesn't reappear until the end of the episode. The 1996 Desmond is the one doing all of the flashing back and forth, and when he's in one place, his body is catatonic in the other one. So the question is, where was 2004 Desmond all this time? And on his return, has he somehow absorbed the experiences which happened while he was away? I don't think this is a question which will be answered -- it's just a loose end. Just want to point out that there is an unaccounted-for consciousness during this episode.

This time travel episode is the opposite of what happened in Desmond's first time jump when he turned the key. In that instance, his 2004 consciousness went backwards to an earlier time, not the other way around, so he already knew everything that was going to happen.

Remember that Naomi was carrying the infamous picture of Desmond and Penny when she parachuted in, so she already knew that Desmond was going to be on the island. Maybe Faraday knew this because he already had the memory of Desmond's visit to Oxford back in 1996, or maybe Penny's father is the one who knows what's going on.

2. To Adam: after last week's episode there was a lot of discussion of Aaron -- you might want to go back and check out the comment section from lasts week's Celebritology. You are not the only one who believes that Aaron is one of the central figures of the show. My personal prediction is that Claire will give away Aaron voluntarily and stay on the island, and that her lucid dream was actually a vision of the future (this seems a lot less far-fetched after last night's episode).

3. To those concerned about Walt's height, I think there's less to this question than meets the eye. We are now in season 4 of Lost, so the actor who plays Walt is now four years older. Whatever magic the writers of this show can perform, they can't make Walt four years younger and 10 inches shorter. When Hurley made the crack about the tall Walt, I simply took it as an in-joke by the writers. I'm sure they'll come up with some kind of explanation, but in this case I think fiction is following real life, not the other way around.

4. The Jack Shepard character in Frequency was specifically mentioned in the annotated version of last week's show which aired before the new episode. I remember this movie as being about a kid who is able to communicate back in time with another character, and who helps him avoid his fate by knowing what was going to happen (kind of like Michael J. Fox knowing what time the lightning was going to hit the clock tower). My theory is that the island is sitting at a point much earlier in time than the present (note how Faraday mentioned that the light was strange), although time is moving along at more or less the same pace both on the island and in the real world. When the helicopter went through the wormhole, it was moving forwards in time, and I think that Desmond swapped consciousnesses while they were passing 1996 on the time-travel dial. The only wierd thing is that the radio communications between the ship and the island have a slightly different time shift than the wormhole does. I'm guessing that this is some kind of relativity effect, where time runs more slowly inside the wormhole than it does outside it. In both directions (missile to island, and helicopter to ship), the object arrives AFTER it should have -- although by different intervals. Presumably the missile was traveling faster than the helicopter, which could explain why the helicopter was delayed by a longer amount of time.

Finally, notice the way characters in this show are always saying, "this isn't (or is) supposed to happen." Locke telling Jack he's not supposed to make the phone call. Jack saying this to Kate in last season finale's flash-forward. 1996 Desmond says this repeatedly in last night's episode. Or alternatively, Mrs. Hawkings telling Desmond, "this is supposed to happen" during his flashback.

Not only does this suggest that there are guiding hands at work here (e.g. Mrs. Hawking), but to me, this suggests the "self-correcting universe" theory of time travel -- any impossible events which would cause time contradictions get headed off before they can occur. If you go back in time to kill your own mother, events will somehow arrange themselves so that your attempt is thwarted and the logical balance of the universe is preserved, and the thing which is "supposed to happen" actually does happen. In this scenario, there is always a balance between predetermination and free will, although this has always struck me as a cheap dodge to escape the paradoxes of time travel (I'm a parallel-universe guy myself...) The writers have pretty much ruled out the alternate-universe theory, so at this point I'm betting on the self-healing universe.

Another great episode...

Steve

If exposure to high amounts of radiation make you a good candidate for the nosebleed, time-travel "disease" after a trip to the island, I think Daniel is a perfect candidate for it. From his conversation with Desmond on the freighter, he seems to already know quite a bit about this possibility. What if the little memory game Daniel was attempting with the playing cards was actually him trying to use his time travelling consciousness to "remember" them and he had never seen them in present Island time? He would basically be reenacting the Eloise maze experiment on himself. I think Daniel has the same ability to time travel in his mind and will be saved from the side effects now that he has seen the note about Desmond in his journal.

Great episode! Seems to wrap up a bunch of loose ends and explain a great deal. Almost seems too good to be true the way they have been stingy with reveals to date. Why give us so much in one episode unless they'll take it away again and make us rethink.

Anyway, here is hoping the "AHA!" moments in last night's episode are accurate. Here is a thought I have not seem expressed yet... how the moving through time has affected other characters' story lines. I think this is the key to the whole story. The numbers keep popping up for a reason- they tie all the characters together. Those numbers were Hurley's winning lottery numbers. Why did Hurley play them to begin with? The bald mental patient kept repeating them, right? We find out later he wasn't "there" - the doctor takes the picture and shows Hurley he is sitting alone. So is Hurley seeing someone who Desmond-like is popping from the future and planting the numbers in Hurley's head to get him to play them in the lottery? Hurley later sees him on the island - another visit in time?

We've been told in regard to Desmond's time travel just after the hatch blew that time corrects itself no matter what he does in the "past" to change the future, i.e. Charlie has to die. So maybe Hurley wasn't supposed to have that money so the bad things started happening to "course correct" and take it all away from him again. This correction is also what causes Dan to not "remember" meeting Des in 1996. He came to not believe it through time and eventually could not remember it as having really happened. Des is his constant because he cares about the concept being visited by Des to tell him the proper equation for his theory.

Maybe the concept of Lost is that all of us experience this in some form or another. Deja vu, muses, guardian angels, visions, ESP, psychics, etc. all explained by the same phenomena - either being visited by a Des-like time traveler or being a Des-like time traveler. It would also explain the producers pointing us toward so many literary works and movies that suggest varying forms of time travel, time shifting, memory power, space travel, etc. They are tying all of those concepts into one force.

May the Force be With You!

@ LostinTampa

Dave was Hurley's imaginary friend, but he wasn't the one who was muttering the numbers. That was some other guy - hurley even went to his wife's house to find out about them.

See, none of us can keep up with all the pieces! I love the show, but sometimes I feel like I should be taking notes, keeping charts, etc. However all this plays out in the end, maybe the writers should prepare a special "Lost for Dummies" episode where they just explain the whole thing -- at least for the last DVD set. It's hard to imagine that the ordinary episodes will be able to tie it all together clearly without massive amounts of show-stopping exposition and physics lectures.

re: 11 Hz . . . http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/www/dev_center.nsf/frameset?OpenAgent&website=com&content=/www/dev_center.nsf/html/hz-11

long story short (and probably not all that well explained . . . i too have a BA in English) checking for EMI (ElectroMagnetic-Interference) and EMS (ElectorMagnetic-Susceptibility).

Ok . . . so not much. 11 Hz. big deal. what, however is an H-Probe? http://www.bcarsten.com/?page=probes

again, check out the link (and i'll spare you my synopsis), but this part did interest me . . . "H-FIELD PROBES

The new H-field probes all have Faraday shielded 10 turn pickup coils, similar to the E101 probe, but each is designed for a specific application"

ah . . . Faraday.</