First!

I was disappointed in last night's episode as well.

I have been working hard this season to avoid spoilers and stay away from the hype, but it was kinda hard to avoid for this week's episode. Especially since LindCuse have promised we'd see more of Libby - I expected something more creative than a ghost for Michael.

And of course Ben set up Karl and Rousseau. Some people are positing that when he said "your mother will protect you" that he didn't mean Rousseau at all. Which would fit the sneaky Ben mold for me quite nicely.

It wasn't much of a cliffhanger for me. I'm just annoyed I have to wait a month for more episodes.

Whether it was Ben or Widmore, how does one buy a decommissioned 777 without anyone finding out? It's not like picking one up at Wal-Mart. And it's not like you can just stick it in your pocket. Too many leaks from folks involved.

I find it intriguing that Michael is in a (time) dilemma that is a complete 180 from what Charlie was dealing with. Michael can't die and is constantly prevented from dying and Charlie, no matter how many times he averted it, was destined to die.
Perhaps the fact that Michael is coming into contact with Desmond (Charlie's "medium") may have some type of bearing on his role in the remainder of this season.

As for using bodies from Thailand to fake the crash - don't Buddhists cremate their dead?

I liked last night's episode, except for the ending, that did seem tacked on.
However, going in I was afraid that the explanation of Michael being on the freighter was due to some kind of time/space anomoly; that Ben was time-traveling and sent Michael to the future, etc. or that Ben had simply kidnapped Walt again which would have been really annoying. In the end though Ben is leveraging Michael's guilt. Which to me is a very human, very realistic explanation of why Michael is on the freighter. I like all the science and speculative theory about Lost but episodes like last night's bring us back to the fact that these are real, falliable characters.

Think the more important cliff-hanger right now is Sayid vs. Desmond for LOST madness.

Seriously, I fell asleep during this epidsode.

Time Q wrote: "I find it intriguing that Michael is in a (time) dilemma that is a complete 180 from what Charlie was dealing with. Michael can't die and is constantly prevented from dying and Charlie, no matter how many times he averted it, was destined to die."

Good observation. But I think Michael's experience with not being able to kill himself, and Charlie's inability to avoid being killed, are the same phenomenon. A sort of destiny is in play. And Tom seems to understand it completely.

As for Tom, I assume he has not risen from the dead and that he is "on the mainland" before he gets killed on the island.

What I found interesting was that Michael actually did get rescued. And Walt, for all the speculation, is in his room. That I never expected. I expected him to be running all over Lost Island plotting to save lives and the world. Also, did anyone notice that Walt looked nothing like the Walt of previous seasons. I mean nothing like him. How hard would it have been to find a kid who at least looked similar to stand in a window?

I agree - the episode was a sleeper, and I am doubly annoyed that I have to wait until 10pm (a pregnant girl's gotta sleep!) on April 24th for the next episode.

The self-correcting time-loop theory is such a doozie. My head hurts from the wonderfulness of it.

Was anything further explained about Karl's video brainwashing thingee that Kate and Sawyer rescued him from?

And yeah, the episode last night was completely disappointing. Libby the ghost? Killing Karl? Puhleeze.

Blech, Michael. You are still annoying. The two minutes of Danielle were more watchable than an entire episode of whining. On the plus side, no Jack.

Hmmmm, no discussion on the most interesting part of last night's episode?

Near the end of almost every commercial break there was a blip of the logo from "The Mole".

Is this show coming back? Hopefully in its excellent first season form and not the horribly cheesy form it morphed into later.

oh yeah, per the preview for the next episode we definitely can end the debate as to who the O6 are:

Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sayid
Baby Aaron
Sun

but I still maintain that two more people have to figure in to this equation of six: in Kate's courtroom scene, Jack mentions that eight people survived the crash but (we are to assume) didn't survive the time on the island until the O6 were "rescued." so who are the other two? i think that Claire is one of them, but who is the other?

I liked the episode.

I don't know how anyone buys a decommissioned 777 _without anyone finding out_, but we do know how you can buy one -- because the producers of "Lost" did it themselves, and told us about it in one of the special features on the Season 1 DVD set. They wanted the crash scene that opened the show to be realistic, so they bought an actual 777 from an airliner graveyard in Arizona and shipped it to Hawaii, then customized it. That part when the wing falls off and the survivors have to run out of the way was a carefully choreographed stunt using the real wing, not a CGI trick.

So, I wonder how much "Lost" paid for the plane? $450K seems like a bargain, but if it's just an old shell without working mechanical parts, that would knock down the price considerably.

Minor issue, but Michael never explains exactly how he and Walt end up in Manhattan. Who found their boat and helped them get out of the Pacific? When and why does Michael decide that no one can know who they are and what happened to them? Who convinces him to conceal his and Walt's identity? This seems to be a decision he reaches well prior to being contacted by Tom and the others.

But it was yet again another example of how none of the Losties are happy after they are off the island.

Agree that Ben deliberately sent off Karl and Rousseau to their executions. Those sharpshooters seemed to be working off instructions to take out two targets. Hoping that Danielle survives this ignoble end.

I liked the episode too. Maybe we all expect too much out of this show sometimes, but the producers also have to appeal to "normal" viewers. You know what I mean...

The fact that Michael can't kill himself is a big deal, I think. Has he always been like that, or did the island make him that way? He was hit by a car and survived before the island. And Locke too, he seemed pretty immortal even before he got on the island - thrown out a window, kidney operation, surviving a hippie community...

this whole course correction thing has me thinking of Jorge Luis Borges's story "The South." They already brought in his best buddy Adolfo Bioy Casares with Sawyer reading _The Invention of Morel_. I'm thinking of "The South," partially because the main character is a patient in a sanitarium (Hurley, anyone?) but mostly because of the ending where he knows he's going to die, but gets the death he wants:

"[Dahlmann] felt that if he had been able to choose, then, or to dream
his death, this would have been the death he would have chosen or dreamt."

So, in that sense, Charlie perhaps chose the death he wanted, knowing he was going to die. Michael also has to find a the death he wants: "Why are you here, Michael?" "I came here to die, man."

Another Borges story which deals with these themes is "Utopia of a Tired Man" which explores art and literature, choosing death, time travelling and the ambiguity of good and evil. here's a summary from when the story was published in the new yorker in the 70s (perfect for Dharma!):

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1975/04/14/1975_04_14_032_TNY_CARDS_000314641

Seriously, Karl might as well have been wearing a red shirt, it was so obvious heas gonna be toast, toast, toast.

But I simply cannot figure out how Michael goes from small boat in the S. Pacific/Indian Ocean to rock bottom in NYC to hospitalized with some pretty serious injuries to healed and rock bottom again to Ben's b^%#h to freighter in Fiji in like 3 weeks. Unless of course there is some time bending going on -- but it was played pretty straight. Kept me from enjoying last night's ep as much as I would have liked.

I think the sharpshooters are a Boatie team. Remember, Sayid asks in the previous episode,"Where is the helicopter?" and then is told "Frank is running errands." And then last night we see in the flashback, the Boaties being gun happy and target shooting. So Frank was running the shooters to the Island. Which proves Ben's point about them coming to kill them all.

Nice theory, BDL. Hadn't thought of that, but it fits. But why would Ben send Alex out there - he seemed to know that Karl and Rousseau would be targets. He wouldn't send Alex out there as bait, would he? One possibility is that the others (Ben's crew) were the shooters because they were tipped off and expecting Widmore's crew.

Some kind of showdown is coming, for sure.

Total filler episode IMHO!

A couple of thoughts...

* Rousseau and Karl were not killed by Others, but by the mercenaries from the freighter. Remember last week were were told that Frank had to take the helicopter on a mission? I think that we can safely assume that the armed guys from the freighter are now on the island.

* Alex learned a lot from Ben and quickly realized that claiming to be Ben's daughter makes her a valuable hostage.

* LindeCuse took a bit of a short cut in getting Michael from the middle of the Pacific ocean to NYC. My guess is that heading 325 took him into a storm (like what Sayid and Desmond encountered on the way to the freighter) and emerged staring at the Statue of Liberty. Michael was gone for two months (according to his mother) which means it was November 22 when he returned to NYC - then got on the boat and spent about a month there leading up to present time on the island, which is about December 28.

* Ben is one twisted SOB!

If you go to losteastereggs.blogspot.com, you can see a close up of "Kevin's" passport - and the passport number is HNSO12153 - HANSO! Gasp! Also the date of issue is 00 Jul 99. 00 July? Is that some sort of reference to the time warp thing we got going on here?

I didn't buy that Tom would have access to all that paperwork. Of course the Others seem to have moles everywhere so it could be possible for that stuff to exist, I just can't imagine Widmore would allow any paper trail to exist for it all.

As for the open graves, those could be pics of a bunch of open graves anywhere.

Yet for some reason I believe Widmore has the resources to do all of that.

Re: the time travel loop theory. It theorizes that the island is caught in a 108 minute time loop, thus explaining why no one on the island appears to be aging. However, baby Aaron was born on the island and correct me if I'm wrong but he appears much older than 108 days old, which would be the oldest he could get assuming he was born exactly when someone reset the counter in the SWAN.

So THAT'S why he told Kate she wasn't his type last season.

Correction - I meant to write 108 minutes old not 108 days old.

Brian: I like that theory, but Ben was a kid when he came on the island. Ditto Alex. Hm. I don't know. Maybe when you hit a certain age you stop aging.

I have a longstanding confusion about Karl--who is he? We know he was born, or at least lived the majority of his life, on the island. He looks about Alex's age. Is he one of the original Others, in which case his actual age is much greater (which doesn't really show in the character)? Was he another baby born from Danielle's expedition group, and if so, why hasn't she ever mentioned it? He couldn't have been a baby when Ben killed off the Dharma folk, since they couldn't have babies. So where does he come from?

I must be on a different wavelength than Jen and Liz. I liked last night's episode better than last week's! It was good to focus on Michael for most of the show--he's a pivotal character whom we haven't seen in how long? For me, the biggest reveal was that Michael couldn't die; that the Island has the power to prevent him from being killed. That is so intriguing. The Island's power extends beyond it's immediate vicinity. Does it have the same effect on the Oceanic 6? Can they not die as well? Could Jack not have committed suicide as he attempted to at the end of last season?

Mr. Friendly's off-island appearance is also tantalizing. I've always imagined that teleportation plays as big a role in Lost as time travel. It would also explain how Michael and Walt ended up in NYC so quickly. Wasn't it implied that Boone was gay/bi as well?

The episode also furthered the rivalry between Widmore and Ben as to who's really responsible for the decoy crash. Both sides are making their case and both seem to have major holes in their stories.

Why is everyone so hung up about Libby?

I agree with you ladies that last night's episode was a bit of a disappointment. There were too many contrived things. Like the Michael and Walt thing. That needs to be explained or I will continue to think it was stupid. And I thought the killing of Karl and Danielle was a bit much too. And now we have to wait another month. Drat!

How did Sawyer know that Michael killed Anna and Libby? I thought the Losties thought that Ben killed Anna and Libby. I might have missed that part being revealed.

I think the Others killed Rousseau and Carl. After all they were heading toward the Other's sanctuary, so sentries would be expected.

Ben is now referring to what is going on as a war. He mentioned it several times. He welcomed Michael to the war. And with the enemy now on the island, the Others who are in the sanctuary would be a lot more trigger happy. They stop shooting once Alex identifies herself.

I'm not buying the time loop theory, though I think the author of it is on a correct path. Mainly because time traveling, or mind-traveling as I like to think of it, is going on outside the island. One simple problem for the theory is that if the island is looping every 108 minute in 1996, why does it get dark at night? Why does the sun come up? How can that happen if the island's time is being reset?

Also, the writers have said that the island is in the present time (2004 anyway). But being able to do what Eloise did, have your consciousness travel back, that would be useful and would explain a lot of how Ben knows what is going to happen since his consciousness has traveled back as Eloise's did.

I also am happy to see my thoughts from a long time ago, that there is a war going on between the Others and "Other-Others" is happening. ;^)

Did anyone notice whether the woman who is Michael's mother is the same woman Miles visited with the dustbuster? It would be interesting if Walt was killed and Miles, being a paranormal expert, visited Walt's room, spoke with spooky Walt, learned about the money but also learned about the island, and that is why he is on the boat.

I was surprised to see Mr. Friendly back from the dead, but it's nice to have him back. Overall, I thought this was a very disjointed show with a very cheap shock effect at the end, but I guess we'll have to live with this for the next month.

We do know for sure now that Ben is all bad -- the way he casually dismissed the lives of everyone else on the island besides Alex tells you everything you need to know about Ben. He knew that Karl and Rousseau would die -- that was part of his plan. Personally I think Ben and Widmore are both bad guys, and there is a third group (led/funded by Penny) that will come into play before this is all over.

I sure hope that this show is not all about the "self-correcting universe" theory of time travel, but unfortunately it's starting to look that way. The problem with this theory, as generation after generation of science fiction writers have discovered to their dismay, is that it boxes you into the most ridiculous plot developments you can possibly imagine, so you can avoid paradoxes. I mean, there is now a bullet-free zone around Michael's head for the rest of his life? Or he can crash his car into a cement barrier at 90 mph and walk out of the hospital pain-free? Give me a break.

I know that it's just a theory, but this idea that going back in time cures your diseases is just as ridiculous. What if you broke your leg when you were 20? Will you have a broken leg again when you go back in time? Will you forget everything you did for the past 10 years, since presumably your brain will also reset to 20 years old? How about if you travel back to before you were born? Will you just pop out of existence? This is the kind of garbage which has destroyed a lot of potentially good time-travel stories. You can't just duct-tape over the paradoxes and expect your show to be believable on any level.

I understand the writers' concerns about the parallel universe theory -- they are worried that the actual events will seem arbitrary, since they are only one of an infinite set of alternatives which all exist simultaneously. Season 9 of Dallas ("It was all a dream") pretty much messed up things for everybody there, so I can understand the concern. However, the beauty of parallel universes is not that they all exist simultaneously, but that our collective consciousnesses are capable of choosing our own pathway through an infinite set of alternatives. Every choice we make takes us down a different branch of this universe, and what's "real" is the path we choose to travel, even though all of the other possibilities still "exist" in some fashion. There is some evidence (e.g. quantum computing) to suggest that this theory may actually describe the universe we live in.

The parallel-universe theory doesn't suffer from any of the paradoxes that other time-travel theories do. Suppose you perform the classic experiment and travel back in time to kill your own mother before you're born. What happens is that your "time machine" transports you to a parallel universe which is very much like the one your mother grew up in, except that it also contains a grown-up version of you. You can then swim in any direction you want to in this new universe, including killing your own mother, without introducing any paradoxes. In the universe you now inhabit, there will never be a younger version of you, because she died before you could be born, but this only affects the future of your current universe. The only stretch in this scenario is to imagine that a machine actually exists which could transport your consciousness into another parallel universe.

(disclaimer: I am not advocating matricide... ;^)

Instead of this simple and elegant theory, it looks like what we're going to get are all of the tired old cliches about how every time you try to kill yourself by jumping off a building, there just happens to be a traveling circus passing by, and they set down their trampoline, and you happen to land on it, etc. etc. etc. After all the buildup, the writers have got to do better than that.

I remember reading a great SF novel by a British writer (I forget who), where as the main character travels through time, he keeps running into copies of himself. If he visited a time/place when he was 20 and returns at 30, his 20 and 30-year old versions speak to each other. He even has a room, far in the future, which contains dozens of copies of himself at various ages.

The point I'm making is that time travel is very well-covered ground, and the writers need to put some thought into this instead of settling for the cheapest possible explanation. Come on, guys -- pull it together...

Here's a question no one's asking: Why would Michael feel compelled to tell Walt that he'd killed Libby and Ana Lucia? Why would he even need to bring it up? Guilty conscience doesn't seem like enough of a reason to me, considering how desperately he wanted to see his son again.

I think Syaid is not to be trusted. Remember in one of the episodes he was working for Ben. So, can anyone dream up a scenario that would make this relationship between the two, post island , work? He is a assasin and Ben is his boss. I totally don't get where they were going with this bit of info. Anyone out there venture to take a stab at this analysis?

Sully, I wondered the same thing (though Michael, his mother, and Walt were in NY and I seem to remember Miles's client was in LA), but I checked IMDB. Assuming that Michael's mother was listed as the role of "Mom," played by Starletta DuPois, the actress is not credited with any other Lost episode.

hi all... something i haven't seen posted yet: doesn't this episode pretty strongly make the case that michael is the one in the coffin? my memory is blurry, but the obit said something about the deceased being from New York, there's no one at the wake, and the funeral home was in a poor and black neighborhood. pretty much what we might expect for the only 815 survivor who's stayed under the radar and is estranged from all his family, and disliked by his fellow surivors for killing two of them.

love the argument that the shooters were a freighter team, but that's a big island and it's unlikely they would randomly cross paths with rousseau and co.... more likely the others did the shooting -- the trhee were headed that way, they'd be watching the route from the barracks, and newly-freed ben probably had a way to tip them off.

time loops? I can't even solve the little mysteries. good luck with that one, chatters.
the time-loop theory? I'll tackle that when

ooops. no, not trapped in a time loop myself. just gotta learn to use "preview."

I think it's more likely that Rosseau and Karl were killed by people from the boat. Mostly because whoever shot them had silenced weapons; and we haven't seen any indication that the Others have that sort of equipment.

Here's my question: How on earth did Locke get Miles out of the shed without blowing half the camp to smithereeens? Miles had a grenade in his mouth, and the pin was pulled!!!!!

Are there even *any* decommissioned 777s yet? (never mind 4 yrs ago) They are a pretty new model.

Good point HardyW. Decommissioned 777s probably did not exist in 2004. That would support the flash forwards being way in the future, like 2012 and supports the slow time theory of the island, or the time loop theory. Either way its a good observation.

I'll have to go back to the DVD feature to check. As I said, the Lost crew was able to buy a decrepit, decommissioned plane for the opening sequence, and given their attention to detail, it's hard to imagine they bought the "wrong" model (i.e., substituted something like a 747 while keeping a 777 in the script).

just a very minor and pointless observation...

didn't the actor who died of time rabies on the freighter also play some character who could read about the future in newspapers in some shortlived series a few years ago?

Quick web search says the 777 was introduced in 1990 and first flown in 1995 by United. (Various models have debuted in later years, the latest being the 777-300ER in late 2002.)

So, good question about decommissioning. As I said, I'll check to see what they bought for the show. (I'll check Lostpedia now -- maybe that will save the trouble.)

walt's dog, are you talking about Fisher Stevens who was in Early Edition? He plays Minkowski.

I think Syaid is not to be trusted. Remember in one of the episodes he was working for Ben. So, can anyone dream up a scenario that would make this relationship between the two, post island , work? He is a assasin and Ben is his boss. I totally don't get where they were going with this bit of info. Anyone out there venture to take a stab at this analysis?

Posted by: | March 21, 2008 01:07 PM

Why is Sayid working for Ben? I think that after ratting out Michael, Sayid realizes the error of his ways. While Ben may not be a good guy (in spite of what he says), perhaps he is the lesser of two evils.

I just saw the shots on Rousseau and Carl on Lost Easter Eggs. Both are shot in the same place, just under the breast on the right side. That might be a survavalbe would, and if its the Others who shot them, presumably thinking their were freightees, they may be able to be saved.

Did the previews indicate one person dies or two? I'm thinking Rousseau is not dead, but Carl ... I don't even know why he's a character!

My mistake -- so much for the producers' attention to detail. While Flight 815 is supposed to be a Boeing 777, they bought an old Lockheed L-1011 for the set. From Lostpedia:

Chronology: The L-1011 aircraft used in Lost:
Was production model 1009
Was the 9th L1011 built and first flew June 12, 1972.
Originally delivered to Eastern Airlines as N308EA.
Stored in the Mojave Desert (likely MHV) in 1991 (Google Maps)
Purchased seven months later by Delta Airlines, who re-registered it as N783DL
Delta flew the plane for six and a half years, then stored it in Victorville (Southern California Logistics Airport, (Google Maps)), then in the Mojave Desert again
Purchased by Aviation Warehouse, an aviation props company for television and film. (Google Maps)
Sold to Lost

So, never mind my previous defense of the 777.

Just had a thought. Who is Carl? He couldn't have been born there since no one can have children. He's hanging out with the Others but gets on Ben's wrong side by paying attention to Alex. But why would Carl be treated the way he has been? Brainwashing, beaten, etc, but not outright killed?

I'm thinking he may have been a hostage. A child of the Other-Others, maybe Widmore's son. Considering how much effort the writers put into these characters, and how their past and future lives intertwine, Carl stands out as an oddity, but as a hostage son of your enemy, it fits.

But hey, I've been wrong before... I thought Walt was the mole...

Yes, MSCS, Buddhists normally cremate their dead. If you removed 324 bodies from one of the few existing cemeteries in Thailand, someone would notice.

Also, for the record, 108 is a very important number in Buddhist cosmology -- it's supposed to be lucky. If I recall correctly, Hurley's string of numbers adds up to 108.

During the clip with Walt, Micheal, and Michael's mother, I wondered if Walt is suffering from that time travel disease that hit Desmond. The grandmother mentioned that he wakes up screaming. But maybe he'd be dead if that was the case . . . unless of course his constant is that dog . . . I am not a sci-fi person, so others can figure out if that's impossible, but I wondered if it somehow explains why there's an older Walt still on the island.

And I assumed that the Others were killing Karl and Renee on Ben's orders, since he made it clear that only certain people are good enough to go to the sanctuary. But maybe this theory doesn't work: Renee wasn't "one of them", but Karl presumably was.

::Just had a thought. Who is Carl? He couldn't have been born there since no one can have children. He's hanging out with the Others but gets on Ben's wrong side by paying attention to Alex. But why would Carl be treated the way he has been? Brainwashing, beaten, etc, but not outright killed? ::

I'm sure there must have been more background to who Karl is and hy Ben hates him so much (will we ever know now?) but I do remember one episode where Alex basically asks Ben why he hates Karl and he says something like "I didn't want you to get pregnant?" Now, torturing someone and trying to have them killed is an extreme measure for someone who disapproves of his daughter's boyfriend but then again, knowing what happens to pregnant women on the island, maybe it is justified (in a warped kind of way)?

The captain of the freighter mentioned the plane's black box last week. Which plane was it from? It reminded me that it could have some clues. If the one on the freighter is from the real 815, what is on it? Wouldn't Sayid have been curious? Even so, wouldn't the black box from 815 still be on the island where the co-pilot was killed? Or is the black box located in another part of the plane? And speaking of which, why would Sayid turn Michael in so quickly? I don't think he trusts the captain at all. Is he trying to gain access to the rest of the boat by winning the captain's favor?

I was disappointed with last night episode too. Where did Walt and Michael find themselves when they navigated away and how did they get to NYC?

I had already figured that Mr. Friendly was gay just by the way he said "you aren't my type" to Kate. So it was no big shock.

I suspect it was the others who shot Rosseau and Karl because the weapons sounded like VERY strong blow darts. I don't recall the weapons on the freighter sounding like these.

And btw, did anyone else have trouble with channel 7's HD broadcast last night?

As to how Sawyer knew that Michael killed Libby and Ana Lucia, I believe he admitted it to Hurley before he left the island back in season 2.

About that comment posted by Ace at 1:05 pm: Yes, there is a "many-universe" interpretation of quantum mechanics. But a) there is no evidence in its favor from quantum computing (which is itself still pretty much a theoretical playground), and b) it most assuredly does NOT enable us to (collectively or individually) "choose our pathway through an infinite set of alternatives". Events described by quantum theory occur completely randomly. We have no control over them.

The allusions to physics in this show may be entertaining, but as is the case with most science fiction, they have no basis in our current understanding of physics.

I wouldn't say this last episode was "good", but definitely interesting

First off, I couldn't believe that Michael's reason for such acts, Walt, was reduced to such a small, non-important role. I thought Walt was going to be a much more important force, now, I"m not so sure.

Also, the big question, just why is Ben so valuable? Why does Widmore's group want Ben so badly, and are there any actual "good individuals" in either group?

I'm hoping Rousseau is not dead, especially as she survived the Island on her own wits, including surviving and knowing how to protect herself from the sentient black smoke.

I'm not sure Ben really cares for Alex, other than as a way to further his agenda, whatever it is. And while he may have less-hideous shades of gray about him, make no mistake, anyone who can chemically nuke an entire compound of people, like Ben did, is NOT "one of the good guys"

Some points to consider from last night and previous eps 1) Two (or maybe all three) of the people Michael meets on boarding the boat are now dead - curious too that he seems to meet no one else but the gun fighters (remember when the big one was an alien on Stargate SG 1?). Is this a part of Michael's "angel of death" thing coming out? 2) Desmond, although just in sight a few seconds, has some major issues - for a supposed military man, and now fox-hole buddy with Sayed, doesn't he seem...way too overwrought - in most scenes he is either outright hysterical, or jittery and way over amped - does this deliberate direction he's getting suggest an impending break-down of some sort - on his visit to Oxford he looked like he needed sedation, and except for that, has not had a flash forward since... Someone else got told to "man up" and I'd say Desmond needs some stones as well 3) Ben, seems to be irresistable - I mean, Locke knifed Naomi on a second's notice, almost sight unseen, and lost little angst over killing her, and especially since it meant, nothing at all - but, a real live enemy like Ben - Locke is smiling while he's dying on this one -- letting the guy run loose, use the radio, eat pound cake, etc. So far no one among the losties has made even an effort to cap Ben off, you'd think they'd have some residual ill will, testiness...something that would stimulate somone takng a poke at him (weird time loops aside, someone can still put some major pain on him - the "theory" does not preclude say, his loosing a hand, missing an eye, or two, etc. and still "living" - yet in the Belin version he looks just swell). An I have to note, as for Sayed, remember he is a trained professional and likes to kill people - get real, after Ben, and maybe Locke, he is the next one I'd off given half a chance.

"I'm not sure Ben really cares for Alex, other than as a way to further his agenda, whatever it is. And while he may have less-hideous shades of gray about him, make no mistake, anyone who can chemically nuke an entire compound of people, like Ben did, is NOT "one of the good guys" "

But Ben is starting to come off as a good guy. He tells Michael that the reason the bomb did not go off was because there were innocent people on the freighter. That might mean Sayid and Desmond. I think the bomb maker (Tom?) mind-tripped back in time after Michael blew up the boat and innocent lives were found to be lost, and remade the bomb so it would not explode and give Michael the message. Otherwise why go through the whole charade? It fits into my hypothesis that the mind tripping back to your past and making changes to what you do, as Desmond found himself uncontrollably doing, is how Ben and maybe some others are controlling events.

A close look at Daniel's notebook shows what looks like a diagram of the many worlds bypothesis with about 8 worlds all connected. In this theory, every time you make a decision that could go one way or the other, two futures are created and each continues on. So for all possible decisions ever made, there is a unique universe, meaning there are an infinite number of universes, which is why the idea isn't taken too seriously except it seems to make sense when you look at physics, especially quantum mechanics. But this may likely be a smaller version of the idea, in that through their technology they are splitting off universes every time they change something that happened, as Desmond did by time tripping and getting Penny's number, or shining purple light on Eloise. If this is so, then Desmond is dead in the real world but due to his mind-tripping has split off into an alternate universe where he got Penny's number and is alive. My guess is that the split off universes try to merge back into the real universe by correcting things, so at some point in the future the universes are identical and merge. If this is so, Michael is in an alternate universe which is trying to correct itself by keeping him alive so it can merge back into the real universe.

So for example Hurley uses the numbers and wins the lottery, which should not have happened, and a universe splits off. He buys a house,which later burns down. He buys a chicken place, which later is hit by a meteor. His money is slowly evaporating. He ends up on the island, is declared dead, his money is no longer his, and the worlds merge again.

I'm also starting to think that in the flashforward with Sayid and Ben, that the island has been lost to the freightees/Widmore, and Ben/Sayid and very likely other people are fighting as the good guys to regain the island but are doing it from the real world, just as Widmore is doing now.

We've mentioned the timing issue vis-a-vis the real-life tsunami. And, yes, Buddhists do cremate.

I really hope they're not implying that the (some caucasian, some not) bodies came from that tragedy.

Yeah, who the heck is Carl, and where did he come from. And what about this.....Michael's mom says that he was "gone for two months". If time were running the same on the island as it was on the outside that would be about right, considering Michael left the island at the end of season two. Each episode seems to correspond to about 1 or 2 days's time (thus the whole "100 days since I've seen a game" comment from Jack in the first episode this season, which got a puzzled look from jeff fahy). But if time IS running differently on the island as we all seem to believe, how can Michael have returned to the outside world after just two months?

I've been thinking about the fake plane. The freighter captain makes a big point of showing Sayid and Desmond the black box from the fake plane. Now, if Widmore had planted that plane, there would have been no reason for him to either retrieve the fake black box, or to give the captain a fake black box. That suggests to me that Widmore did not actually plant the fake plane, which means that Ben probably did, possibly to divert attention from the Island.

When I first saw Mr. Friendly, I wondered if a) this all happened before he was shot or b) are the producers doing the same @#$$@%&@ they did in Alias where you finished the series knowing that ANYONE ever killed is NEVER killed because they show up again sometime later with some pathetic excuse like "Oh that wasn't REALLY her mother-she just LOOKED like her mother." Five times over. RIGHT. Either way, they've set themselves up (with time travel, inability to die) with such convenient (and pathetic) excuses to do absolutely anything at any time with anyone defying any logic that I doubt seriously I'll last the rest of the two and a half seasons. I predict we'll all be moaning "Oh give me a BREAK!" over several episodes and then we'll all quit in disgust.

Glad the girls caught the "I've got a bad feeling about this," ref, but hey-Luke said it long before Hans, and the kid really did look like an early Luke Skywalker. All that said, he was (in my mind) a non-character, and so when he got shot I thought, "ARRRGH! Another cheap shot (pardon the pun) by killing off a stupid non-character when we were led to believe one of the MAIN characters would get shot! AAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!" This show is making me feel more and more jerked around by cheap shots like that that I am getting really pissed.

As for Ben and Widmore, I think they're in it together, playing people off of each other deliberately for some nefarious purpose to be revealed at some (far) distant time.

Just before Libby's ghost shows, Michael heard the Whisperers from the island. I believe this is the first time that we've seen/heard them in an off-island location. The island spirits can travel.

I don't think Ben is a good guy. I think the reason the bomb didn't go off is because he was using the bomb to manipulate Michael. I believe that is why he told Michael there are innocent people on the freighter, just to manipulate him.

One thing I was confused with was Tom's time line and for that matter the time line of the freighter. How was he able to get to NY. Wasn't he at the station with Jack, Kate and Sawyer? Didn't we see him play catch with Jack at the compound? Then he was shot by Sawyer. When did he have time to go to NY and come back.

Just what happened to the people who went out on the raft earlier?

I wonder if Sayid is now Ben's person on the freighter, that is why he turned Michael in. Didn't Sayid meet with Ben while he was captured by Locke. We do not know everything that was said between the two.

I don't think Rousseau is dead, I didn't see any blood like I saw with Karl. I'm not sure if the only reason Ben wanted Karl dead was because he didn't want Alex to become pregnant(I don't trust anything Ben says). If this was true he could have given Karl a vasectomy. I think Karl was not conforming to society (hence the clockwork orange type of torture) and Ben didn't want Alex to behave in a similar manner.

First of all, I disagree with Liz and Jen. I thought this was a very good episode (except for the hurried scene in which Carl and Rousseau are shot/killed). We learned a lot about Michael's time off the island and his connection to the freightor. They tied in Naomi and Miles nicely to the larger story. They set up future episodes with the freightor's gunmen. They added the wrinkle about "the island" not letting Michael kill himself which ties in nicely with all of the other powers that the island has demonstrated. So, bottomline, I thought it was a very good episode. Certainly, not a good as the Constant, but up there.

My theory on who Carl is; could he be one of the "children" taken from Oceanic 815? I've watched this show fairly devotedly and I don't think they've ever explained exactly where the "children" have been taken or where they are now. I know they were taken because they were on "the list" and probably taken because the others couldn't have children of there own. We did see some of the kids being led thru the woods in one of the episodes in season 1. Maybe Carl was brought into the others camp and, since he was older than the other kids on the plane, he was more quickly integrated into camp life. Maybe this would explain the brainwashing scene. They had to take him thru that type of indoctrination because he was one of the older kids on the plane versus simply raising the younger kids as their own. Bringing Carl into the camp proved to be a mistake for Ben, however, when Carl and Alex seemed to hit it off too quickly so now Ben finds him expendable. If this doesn't seem like a plausible scenario, I would be interested in any other theories as to where the 815 kids are now and why Carl couldn't be one of them.

I think the shooters are from the boat. They have orders to kill everyone on the island, perhaps in revenge for what the others did to the Dharma group. They don't shoot Alex either because she said she was Ben's daughter or they knew she was Ben's daughter (supposedly) and they want her as a bargaining tool to get to Ben. But I could be wrong and the shooters could be the others operating on Ben's instructions : - ) Who knows with this show.

The reason I didn't like the shooting scene was that it seemed rushed. It may have had to do with the proximity of the writing and filming of this episode to the writer's strike.

"I don't think Rousseau is dead, I didn't see any blood like I saw with Karl."

While I don't think Rousseau is dead, there was blood when she was shot.

See http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/ for a screen shot.

I'm sure that Karl's parents were Dharma people. When the Others killed the Dharma people, they probably took the children to raise as their own. We know that the Others kidnapped the children from the plane and Alex was also kidnapped as a baby. Ben wanted Roussou and Karl dead because he is extremely jealous and wants Alex all to himself.

If Ben is "good," then count me on the side of "evil." Seriously.

You guys are nuts, it was one of the best episodes of the season, which is saying something when this season has already been at the top of its game. They answered probably a dozen good questions within those 42 minutes. If you think it was hyped too much, well that is your own fault. I went in, hypeless, and came out fully satisfied.

"I must be on a different wavelength than Jen and Liz. I liked last night's episode better than last week's! It was good to focus on Michael for most of the show--he's a pivotal character whom we haven't seen in how long? For me, the biggest reveal was that Michael couldn't die; that the Island has the power to prevent him from being killed. That is so intriguing. The Island's power extends beyond it's immediate vicinity. Does it have the same effect on the Oceanic 6? Can they not die as well? Could Jack not have committed suicide as he attempted to at the end of last season?"

It's not that Michael can't die, it's that "he has work to do" before he is ready/able to die. His fate dictates that there are things he must do before he can die.

I really hope Rousseau isn't dead. What an anticlimactic ending to a woman who has survived a whole heck of a lot on this island. If she really is dead, it's almost like she had no purpose at all - the whole story could have been told without her!

"Did anyone notice whether the woman who is Michael's mother is the same woman Miles visited with the dustbuster? It would be interesting if Walt was killed and Miles, being a paranormal expert, visited Walt's room, spoke with spooky Walt, learned about the money but also learned about the island, and that is why he is on the boat."

It's not the same woman. I haven't rewatched the scene, but let's think about it. That scene with Miles and the dustbuster was before Miles went on the freighter. Before the island, Walt had been living overseas with his mother since he was a baby. The last time he lived in the states he was a baby, and I hope a baby Walt wouldn't be hiding drugs in his air return. And the calendar, etc in the room was too new to have been Michael's old room.

I think Sayid is not to be trusted. Remember in one of the episodes he was working for Ben. So, can anyone dream up a scenario that would make this relationship between the two, post island, work? He is an assassin and Ben is his boss. I totally don't get where they were going with this bit of info. Anyone out there venture to take a stab at this analysis?
Posted by: | March 21, 2008 01:07 PM

I think the whole point of showing us Sayid works for Ben in the future is to shock us into waiting for was event is going to take place to allow this to happen. There have been several instances (including in this episode) where Sayid implies that he'd rather die than work for Ben, so obviously the future as we know it involves a huge twist. I don't understand why you don' "get where they were going with this bit of info" because I think the whole point of this season is setting Sayid (and the others) up to get there. And, as Mpls said above, Sayid may have just made a grave mistake by outing Michael, further setting himself up for his fate.

"We've mentioned the timing issue vis-a-vis the real-life tsunami. And, yes, Buddhists do cremate. I really hope they're not implying that the (some caucasian, some not) bodies came from that tragedy."

Obviously no one is implying this. First off, the timing wouldn't work. The reason people are asking if Buddhist cremate is because Tom said Widmore dug the bodies for the fake wreckage up from Thailand. So people are saying this isn't really plausible if those bodies would actually have been cremated, furthering the question of whether Tom is telling the truth about Widmore. The reason people keep asking about the tsunami is that the island "present day" is about to be Dec 26, 2004, same day as the tsunami. Since the island is in the South Pacific, people have just been wondering if the Losties are going to see the effects of the tsunami on their island. So, no, no one is implying that Widmore stole the bodies of the tsunami victims.

Just before Libby's ghost shows, Michael heard the Whisperers from the island. I believe this is the first time that we've seen/heard them in an off-island location. The island spirits can travel.
Posted by: Monk0127 | March 21, 2008 04:23 PM

Interesting catch, though I can't say for sure if we've have or haven't heard this off-island before. The music is one thing, but the music plus the whispers is a different thing all together. Maybe there's more to Libby's ghost.

Also, good catch by who ever noticed "The Mole" flash at the end of commercials! I was fast watching via DVR and kept fast forwarding right over those parts in my first watch. Great Easter Egg.

"One thing I was confused with was Tom's time line and for that matter the time line of the freighter. How was he able to get to NY. Wasn't he at the station with Jack, Kate and Sawyer? Didn't we see him play catch with Jack at the compound? Then he was shot by Sawyer. When did he have time to go to NY and come back."

How often and how easily can Ben and his crew get off the island is a big question of the island... They may have some sort of "portal" that doesn't require boats or helicopters or subs. They may have just used the sub as a diversion for Juliet. We don't know yet. But as we say with Ben's money/clothes/luggage stash, The Others do have some mobility between the island and the rest of the world. We just don't know their means of doing so just yet.

One thing about Tom's story on Widmore buying the plane etc... He said that Widmore bought the plane via a "shell company"... called Widmore Industries?!? That seems weird. If I was buying a plane undercover to try to cover up a wreck, and I didn't want to draw any attention to myself, I really don't think that my front company would be "Lost at Work Industries".

To HSP:

I'm not trying to argue that there is any mathematical proof that we live in one of an infinite number of parallel universes representing all possible states. I'm also no expert on quantum mechanics. However, the argument has been made that since a qubit represents a superposition of both possible states of that bit, that each qubit actually has a foot in two possible worlds: the one where its state is zero, and the other one where its state is 1. In this scenario, a 16-bit chain of qubits simultaneously occupies 65536 different universes representing all possible states of these 16 bits, and these universes are all superimposed onto this single set of qubits. If you use these qubits to crack an encryption key, for example, you would be harnessing the computational power of all of these possible universes to determine which universe "knows" the correct answer. I'm just a lowly software engineer, not a physicist, so if you find this argument laughable, please feel free to mock me...

;^)

So what do people think about Miles' comment to Michael about Kevin Johnson not being his real name. Is this Miles just pulling Michael's leg because he knows how to read people, or does Miles really know somethimg? And how does that fit in with Miles bribing Ben (or, as some people see it, sending him messages)? Does this mean that he works for Ben or he's just good at mind games?

One thing about Tom's story on Widmore buying the plane etc... He said that Widmore bought the plane via a "shell company"... called Widmore Industries?!? That seems weird. If I was buying a plane undercover to try to cover up a wreck, and I didn't want to draw any attention to myself, I really don't think that my front company would be "Lost at Work Industries".

Posted by: Lost at Work | March 21, 2008 09:00 PM

OK, clearly I missed the part where Jen and Liz already addressed this. Guess I'm just trying to read too fast to get caught up since I didn't see the episode until this morning.

Well I agree that it wasnt that great of an episode. I think besides the Constant, all the episodes of late of have been weak. I think one reason this episode fell short was because everyone on this board had predicted a lot of what was revealed last night. One thing I think needs to be cleared up is the issue of Tom being in NYC. I think that he was there before he was shot at the end of season 3. Im drawing a blank and cant remember how Jack was released from the Others but Tom must have been NYC between the time after Bens surgery and Hurley going kama-kazi in VW bus.

Who says the others shot Karl and Danielle. Frank Lapidus is gone with the helicopter. So who's to say he didn't take a crew of freighter folk to the island and they are preparing their assault.

Has anyone noticed the C.S. Lewis chicks name?

David,

I think there is a split of consensus as to whether The Others shot Karl and Danielle or whether it was the group from the freighter. I personally think it was the latter.

Re Tom's (or, as I like it better, Mr. Friendly) timeline, I believe he clearly was in New York before his being killed by Sawyer at the end of season 3. Think about it. His scenes with Michael in New York took place before Michael got on the freighter. By the time he was killed on the island the Losties already knew that there was a freightor " 80 miles off shore" because Naomi had already parachuted onto the island and told them about it. That is why they were going to the radio tower to disable Danielle's signal. To be able to explain the ability to travel to great distances in a short period of time, I think there will be a reveal in a future show about some type of portal connected to the island's properties. This might explain how Michael was able to "sail" to the US and end up in NYC so relatively soon after leaving the island. Perhaps a wormhole of some sort?

The final scenes of the show were extremely uncharacteristic of Rousseau. She knows that they walked into some sort of ambush - Carl was shot. And then she decides to abandon any cover and concealment she has to stand upright and run?

In past episodes she has displayed the ability to move stealthily through the jungle, to escape and evade. I will be very disappointed if the show's creative talent ended her character in such a small fashion.

Liz and Jen,
Oh we disagree finally. I thought it was a good ep. despite a "major charactor" not dying. A few things to add (although I'm not sure how many folks read this after Friday)

1) I like the earlier theories that Karl is one of the 815 kids...really not a whole lot of other ways to explain him.

2) people, as Christopher Lloyd said, "you aren't thinking fourth-demensionally!" Just because Mr. Friendly is in NYC, he might still be on the island and in reality only a few minutes (island time) could have passed while he was there with this (echm) friend. Stop thinking so literally...this show is clearly not literal (except for all the book references) and because of that really plays to a lot of us who want more then a canned laugh track.

3) Speaking of which, is it at all possible that after Michael speaks with his Mother about walt (in Los Angeles) then heads back to NY where he trys to shoot himself? "whoh that's heavy"...sorry need to hit 88

3) Lost eastereggs had a really cool screen shot of Michael's buddy in the hospital. See him here:
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/03/hospital-bed-man.html

Is it possible that the mysterious Alvar Hanso is Mike's roommate? Remember LindeCruise do not make many mistakes and even those that appear "mistakes" are usually done with a purpose.

I think there is a connection between Naomi and Nadia...Sayid had such a tender reaction to Naomi's body, I think he recognized something about her. Perhaps they are sisters - Nadia was in England (rescued by Charlie) as was Naomi (who had heard of Charlie's band). If the island is stuck in 1996 (or WHATEVER time issues it has), perhaps Sayid is working for Ben b/c he is trying to get Nadia to/from the island...or to/from a time period when she is not dead (even tho I don't think we've seen conclusive evidence of her actual death yet).

Liz & Jen
Maybe Ben wants list of all the people on board to one, find history about what he is soon dealing with, and two, he said that he only wants to kill the bad people well he also asked two of the others to take lists when the plane crashed. Maybe those people that are on his list are the people he thinks as inocent like the children.

"The Man Who Folded Himself" might be the book previously mentioned.

When Ben spoke to Michael it was interesting he seemed surprised Michael had really tried to set off the bomb. I think there are more than enough examples to prove it is a lie when Ben says he doesn't kill innocent people (the extermination of the Dharma people, when he tells the raiding party that's supposed to kidnap the women from the beach to kill anyone who gets in their way, sending Goodwin to the tailies in order to get him killed...)

It will be interesting to learn what the distinction between the Others and the Losties, "they're not one of us," means.

I admit I was scared when I saw Tom (aka Mr Friendly) alive and thought that maybe Sawyer, the con man, didn't really kill him. It would be a kick in the pants if some of the survivors on the plane were working deep under cover for someone all this time, whether Ben or Widmore, and that ultimate betrayal will comes right at the end of the series. Come to think of it, knowing this show, I guess everyone's already expecting that.

--I admit I was scared when I saw Tom (aka Mr Friendly) alive and thought that maybe Sawyer, the con man, didn't really kill him.--

Tom's timeline was explained pretty well above by "emcdoj | March 22, 2008 09:06 AM" where he wrote:
"Re Tom's (or, as I like it better, Mr. Friendly) timeline, I believe he clearly was in New York before his being killed by Sawyer at the end of season 3. Think about it. His scenes with Michael in New York took place before Michael got on the freighter. By the time he was killed on the island the Losties already knew that there was a freightor " 80 miles off shore" because Naomi had already parachuted onto the island and told them about it. That is why they were going to the radio tower to disable Danielle's signal."

So Tom in NYC was before Tom was killed on the Island.

As for Sayid and why he is working for Ben in the future, I thought that was explained by Ben himself as he was doctoring to Sayid's gunshot wound. Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought Ben reminded Sayid of the people back on the island and how if he wanted to save them or keep them safe he had to continue working with Ben. In other words, those back on the island were either hostages of Ben's or were now under someone elses control. I'm thinking that in the future the freightees (Widmore) have taken the island from the Others and Ben is fighting to get it back, either using the Lostees as hostages or the Lostees are prisoners of Widmore. This brings up the possibility that the Oceanic 6 helped Widmore defeat Ben and the Others, only to find out later that they helped the "bad guys", and the O6 are keeping the Island secret due to Widmore holding many Lostees as hostages:

Each O6 person had someone to protect on the island except Sayid:
Jack has Juliet
Sun has Jin
Kate has Sawyer
Hurley, well, he likes everyone.
Even Aaron has Claire.
But Sayid has no one to protect and can thus risk fighting with Ben to defeat Widmore and save the Lostees.

And why is everyone so convinced that a single gunshot could kill Carl and Rousseau? Think about how many people have been shot on this island and survived. Both Carl and Rousseau were shot in the right lung, a survivable wound assuming they can receive some treatment, and when you consider all the things Locke has survived, well, I'll wait until April to be convinced. Did the writers say a major character is "killed" or "shot"? Big difference on this island.

Still wondering about Carl. I don't think he was a O815 passenger since no one seems to recognize him or is asking him about the other children. He really is a character without any development by the writers. No past, no reason to be there since the Others cannot have children and it does not look like he was a passenger. And many Others were recruited but why recruit a teenager? Maybe he survives and we learn more about him. But right now he makes no sense, and they killed him off. I can't believe a show that is so well written with lots of care to past and future happenings would let a Carl exist, so I'm guessing he survives, has a rich history, such as being Henry Gale's son, ends up rescuing Alex, or something other than just dying without an explanation of who he was.

Worst Dueling Analysis ever.

You ladies shouldn't drink so much during the show, or drink more.

You've overlooked some key details:

One the helicopter and the para-military types (the ones that turncoat-Mike saw practicing) are not on the boat.....uh, could they be on the island? With their high powered weaponry?

How can you tell that the moldy, decaying hand in the pilot's seat is Caucasian? The Caucasian part is the pilot's insert picture.

I thought the reason Ben asked Michael to disable the freighter's engines was so that the boat would be sucked into the island's "vortex" - like the dinghy Minkowski and the other guy were on.

That Tom would be gay was only interesting insofar as I speculated whether "Arturo" and "Paolo" might be related - and how badly Sawyer played his hand on that front (pun fully intended).

Was Walt's grandma the same woman we saw hire Miles with the dustbuster to channel her dead grandson????

I need to learn to quit doing laundry and stuff during Lost--I miss way too much.

Thanks to "Digger" I just now learned that Jeff Fahey is playing Lapidus. I kept seeing his name on the credits but didn't think he'd actually made an appearance yet since I didn't recognize him!

I find it interesting that Ben is so pivotal in the story when Michael Emerson was initially hired for only a short run. His role was expanded due to fan reaction (the opposite fate of Nikki/Paolo). How does this mesh with LindeCuse's statements that they've had the major storyline all mapped out from the beginning? Seems like Ben is a pretty big piece to be plugging in.

Just catching up on everything...in the chat, "New York,NY" asked if Michael's flashback could be WAY back, because of the old car....they obviously wanted you to think that for a sec, but then they showed that the car had a satellite radio in it, y'all.

Undoubtably way off here, but any chance Mr. Friendly isn't dead by Sawyer's gunshot? When talking to Michael about the island not letting him die until it was his time, Mr. Friendly seemed to know an awful lot about guns locking & bullets bouncing ?

alex,

It seems to me that there were a few characters that were not supposed to be HUGE on the show, but are still on it...Jack...Ben...Sun...Jin...

And for all we know, maybe in terms of Ben, Jacob was supposed to be a constant in the episodes, but when Ben was embraced so well early on, they moved things around.

They never said that all details were mapped out ahead of time. They just knew the start, major milestones in the show, and the end. How the writers get to those places may have changed, but they are keeping their original map.

I also thought the show was a bit of a cop out and not nearly as nail biting as other episodes have been...
I thought the background on Michael did fill in some holes, but there are still a lot of questions that haven't been answered.

Also, I thought it was a bit of a cop out to just shoot Carl and Danielle and then end the episode.
I hope there is a little more to it than that...Otherwise:
Why keep Carl alive and in the story this long unless he is important somehow?
Why would this, over everything, kill Danielle when she has lived on the island for so long?

Something is fishy...

Posted by: Ace | March 21, 2008 01:05 PM:

I remember reading a great SF novel by a British writer (I forget who), where as the main character travels through time, he keeps running into copies of himself. If he visited a time/place when he was 20 and returns at 30, his 20 and 30-year old versions speak to each other. He even has a room, far in the future, which contains dozens of copies of himself at various ages.

******************************************

This reminds me of the SNL skit "The Falconer" where the falconer goes back in time to save his beloved falcon from being shot. In the end, the entire cast is on stage, each of them playing the falconer. They're all too late though, and their beloved falcon dies.

Read the transcript from the skit at http://snltranscripts.jt.org/05/05sfalconer.phtml.

Other random thoughts:

Libby is to Michael as Charlie was to Hurley. In their minds, their both dead, yet they see them one second and then they're gone.

Sayid will go to work for Ben (much the same way Michael did) once he realizes his mistake of exposing Michael.

Why would whoever put the plane at the bottom of the ocean even worry about bodies? Even if there were bodies in the plane, Tom could've shown Michael a picture of any mass dug graves and said thats where the bodies came from.

Man, I'm Lost without Lost.

"You can't change your fate by time traveling - fate/destiny has its own course correction".

This is essentially what is called as (cue the drumrolls...) "Dharma" according to Hindu philosophy.

Does anyone else besides me find it abnormal that whenever an island pregnancy is discussed (as in cases with Sun and Kate), it is always presented as some sort of inevitable disaster? Juliet goes on and on and on about what happens to pregnant women in their 2nd trimester, and everyone just accepts it as their their fate. Sun even asks, "How long do I have?", meaning she totally resigned to the idea of dying from complications of pregnancy if she does not get off the island before they begin. Ahem, abortion much? Juliet has a fully equipped lab there and she is a trained doctor herself. She could perform an abortion and therefore save Sun and possibly Kate from their terrible fates, if need be. But the possibility of it was never mentioned. WHY?

Wasn't Juliet drugged when she was brought to the Island? Something about it being a long or uncomfortable or something journey. Does has have any impact or implication in the time travel/warp issue? She was given something in her OJ when she was meeting with the ageless guy (Richard?) and then a shot when she was on the sub. Right?

A minor observance, but Miles was eating an orange when Michael boards the boat. Fans of the Godfather films and the Sopranos will recognize this as a foreshadow of death.

This may be wishful thinking on my part but I hope that the people who killed Karl turn out to be that Natives, ie Richard Alpert's crew.

Also, this has probably been said before, but I suspect that Libby may have been in some capacity working for Widmore. She gave Desmond the boat for Widmore's race, which I believe was somehow related to Widmore's quest to find the island. I was totally pissed about only seeing "ghost Libby" last night, so hopefully there'll be more to come from her.

If eating an orange symbolizes death, then Locke better watch out. I remember in the pilot he smiles at Kate with an orange slice in his mouth.

Might not mean anything -

Yes - you're right that Juliette was drugged when brought to the island. She THINKS she arrived in a submarine - and we are led to believe that the submarine was the only way on/off the island until supposedly destroyed by Locke - but the recent episodes show us that other means to get there are possible - though the helicopter's almost crashing would be a hint why maybe Juliette and others would be drugged so as not to know of the "difficulties" (or means) to reach it. Ben is not jumping around in time strictly on a submarine, for sure. I still think there's some "time machine" thingy - maybe that closet where Locke's father a/k/a Original Sawyer was kept. Or maybe it's this mysterious "temple" where only special people can go.

I had waited til last night to watch this episode and I thought it was awesome! and now I only have to wait two weeks.

I have a modest proposal: In honor of Matthew Fox's acting ability, we should henceforth refer to him as "Jack Shatner".

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.