first!

I was under the impression that Ben was signaling to the others using the mirror. They were in the mountains by this time, not the station.

My favorite exchange was at Hurley's birthday luau.

Sayid: "Interesting choice of theme"
Hurley: "Yeah, Mom doesn't really get it."

Jack, Hurley, Kate, & Sayid get off by helicopter (Hurley piloting?). Locke & Sawyer elect to stay behind. Ben has his own plan. Oceanic 6, also the capacity of that dingy.

Doc's column

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20200751,00.html

Interesting insights he has:

-Operation Greenhouse was the code name for America's A-bomb testing program in the South Pacific during the 1950s

-There was Flash-Forward Hurley's T-shirt, the one that said ''Ace of Spades'' -- the death card, the card of war.

I would also like to add that Ace of Spades is a great Motorhead song/album.

I figured Alpert was going to show up since Carbonel's name was in the credits but I thought he'd show up in creepy suit-guy mode, jungle saviour mode.

One question: Desmond had a vision that Claire and Aaron boarded a copter together and it left the island. Was he wrong? What's going on here???

I think I'm confused. Kate and Jack were together when they first got off the island, then he finds out who the baby is and they break it off, then the trial happens and they get back together?

I didn't see Sun's move against her dad coming at all, that was pretty sweet. I agree that it supports the theory that Jin really died.

Did anyone else see another figure on the chopper? Kind of sitting closer to the cockpit on the starboard side of the hold. I thought my eyes were deceiving me at first, but I went back and watched it a couple more times and it definitely looked like there was a dark figure on there, behind the Oceanic chick. It almost looked like Abbaddon. In a following shot, a close up on either Hurley or Sun (I have to go back and watch it again), I thought I saw shoes sticking out in the background, like someone had crossed their feet.

As for the coffin, I'm leaning toward Michael. Or maybe even Keamy?...

Two weeks is waaaay too long.

Oh did anyone else get that Red Shirt vibe when Faraday went off in that little boat?

Red Shirts are those guys on the original Star Trek TV series that get beamed down with the stars & inevitably die within minutes of being beamed down.

And since Sun & the baby are on the freighter & they live, they gotta get off that thing somehow, so maybe Des gets off too?

I hope so anyway.

My thoughts:

When Ben went to get the Dharma package with the mirror, etc., he acted to me as if he was becoming aware of the location of the package at that very moment. Was his mind jumping through time at that moment giving him new information (his plan?) Actually, the concept of mind jumping would explain Ben and Dan Farraday's constant here/not here look they possess as they walk around.

Desmond's "premonition" of Claire and Aaron getting on a helicopter due to Charlie's actions seems like it isn't happening. Did Des confuse Kate for Claire? (Seeing Kate hold Aaron). Or another theary I have - Desmond has a high probability of dying/going unconscious around the time of the rescue, meaning he would not be around to see it. This results in fuzzy premonitions as there may not be a good place for his mind to jump.

Sun's buying of a controlling interest seems to indicate Paik's company 1) isn't as huge as we've made it out to be or 2) has a lot of hidden actions outside financial records. Certainly, on the books, it's significantly smaller in scale than Oceanic as Oceanic would simply go bankrupt as opposed to being to afford such settlements. Of course if Paik's company has a lot of off-the-books profit (likely considering the enforcement activity of the company) then one could buy controlling interest on its on-book value. I'm interested in how much Sun is going to learn about the behind the scene's activity of her new holding.

::One question: Desmond had a vision that Claire and Aaron boarded a copter together and it left the island. Was he wrong? What's going on here???::

If I recall correctly, I don't think WE actually saw Desmond's vision of Claire and Aaron getting off the place like we saw some of this other visions, re: Charlie's many deaths. Or maybe the sequence of events was altered so much that Desmond's vision could not come true. Or he lied to Charlie to get him to disable the jamming signal in the Looking Glass. Your guess is as good as mine, at this point.

I think Michael remains the frontrunner for the coffin, though it just seems too obvious. Doubt it's Keamy. First, the person in the coffin committed suicide, and we haven't yet seen any reason for Keamy to be in that psychological state. (We haven't learned much about him at all -- he seems more a plot device than a fully-realized character.) Second, Keamy is over 6'6" (according to the actor's IMDB profile), so wouldn't that require a longer coffin? Third, why on earth would Jack feel the need to go to the funeral?

Screenshots showing the shadowy figure. It could even be another Coast Guard officer, but I think they would've made that more clear.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/SC0VFal9lMI/AAAAAAAABbY/HnMyzHAVKOQ/s1600-h/4x12-00099.jpg

::We haven't learned much about him at all -- he seems more a plot device than a fully-realized character::

I'm hoping he will eventually detonate himself... of all the bad guys on this show, I immediately hated Keamy, especially after killing Alex in coldblood.

Did anyone notice that Ben's signaling with the mirror looked like morse code? I don't think it was just a "here I am" signal. It may have lead to Richard picking up Jack/Kate/Sawyer to keep them out of trouble. And yes, best line was telling Hurley the crackers were 15 years old, and funnier, he did not immediately spit them out.

As for Jen/Liz's plunge into Hawkings black hole physics, believe me, a black hole would do little to make the light look funny or drive people a little nuts. Actually, it would do very little, just as the earth's gravity isn't doing much to you now, unless it got really really strong, and then you would stretch as the space between your atoms were in a significantly different gravitational gradients, and thus times too. Controlling such a thing would be more than difficult and hardly something you could keep at a station. But nothing says they cannot create the time bending effects of a black hole on a small scale, with special effect sounds and lights. Small black holes are theoretically possible, but they would be small, and their effects would be small. I just hope they are as careful with the science as they are with other aspects of this show. But I'm thinking their time control technology is based on magnetism. We know they can transport people in time and distance. Doing that to the whole island will be interesting to see and make for a great finale.

But I'm becoming convinced the island is in the future with a portal of some sort to the present, and that portal shifts, to Dan's frustration. Moving the island will mean moving it in time I'm sure, probably a few years in the future, making a return by the O6 a possibility in the future, maybe when Aaron is old enough to take over Locke's leadership on the island.

Speaking of Locke, it seems from last week he has mind-traveled back into himself when very young. I'm wondering if Aaron is also growing up with future events in his memory and makes me wonder if he is one of the Others, since I'm convinced they are from the future. Maybe Aaron is Richard, or Tom. How cool would that be!

I don't think Claire's mom showing up at the funeral was odd. She had a relationship with Jack's father and gave birth to his child. Also the fact that Claire was on the plane would have made her want to reach out to Jack.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the dates mentioned at the press conference. I believe the Oceanic 6 were "rescued" after 108 days. The seems about right with how many days the Losties think have transpired as well as the date in the freighter calendar. I'm curious why there was no tie-in with the tsunami.

Em,

You are spot on. There IS Somebody back there...not sure who it is but I'm going to rewatch tonight.

wow, good points... if ben as another man among the soilders, it would have to be omar since he's the only other one besides keamy that has a name, right? and we did get a fleeting close up of him in the final seconds of last night's episode. and they press conference said the oceanic six landed on the indonesian island in a raft, so may the frieghter blows up and the oceanic six take that little boat to freedom?

Controlling interest in a corporation could be as little as 5 percent. Bill Gates owns less than 10 percent of Microsoft. Maybe Jin combined her settlement money with Hurley's millions. The men speaking to her father mentioned 5 bank accounts.

Any Korean speakers out there know what Jin said to Sun when they discovered the explosives? She hightailed it up to the deck at that point, looking scared and shifty.

I think Sun will get back on the little speedboat and return to the island when Daniel comes with a second boat load of "red shirts" (those doomed to die on the freighter). She knows the freighter is a death trap (sorry Des!) but won't tell the others on the ship. She'll then be positioned on the island to come together with the rest of the O6 and leave on the helicopter.

Of course, 108 is also the sum of the "numbers."

"She'll then be positioned on the island to come together with the rest of the O6 and leave on the helicopter."

... or on the little speedboat.

SK wrote: "When Ben went to get the Dharma package with the mirror, etc., he acted to me as if he was becoming aware of the location of the package at that very moment. Was his mind jumping through time at that moment giving him new information (his plan?) Actually, the concept of mind jumping would explain Ben and Dan Farraday's constant here/not here look they possess as they walk around."

Yea, I noticed that "look" in the episode when Keamy's men were attacking the house. Ben had this far away look. Ben jumping back in time and changing events is a good possibility. Sort of like the last half hour of "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure", where they would say, "hey, all we need to do is remember to go in the past and put the keys behind that pillow" Ted reaches behind the pillow and there they are! Ben pulling out that old suitcase sure seemed a similar convenience.

But that brings up Ben's daughter being killed, which really stunned him. He said Widmore changed the rules. If by jumping into the past to change things in the present, he should have been able to stop her from being killed. Widmore did something to prevent that. The jumping also may explain why Michael cannot die. Someone is playing with the past to change events so the gun jams, etc. Ben cannot be doing all of these things. For Michael to survice Keamy's gun, someone on the boat had to be time traveling and had the opportunity to jam Keamy's gun. That points to a mole in Keamy's group. My guess is it is the only member of that group to be given any attention, and that is Keamy's sidekick Omar. Maybe that is why Ben is not too worried about walking into Keamy's hands, because Omar is there, and that is his plan.

interesting question here - http://www.opinionpopcorn.com/opinionpopcorn/2008/05/lost-recap-the.html

does jack finding out claire is his sister cause him enough guilt (that he left the island as a member of oceanic 6) cause him to want to go back...?

Obviously by now, _Lost_ is all about time, and I'm wondering about time in this recent episode. In past episodes scenes of the O6 back "home" were always flashforwards and scenes on the island were always the present. When do the scenes back "home" become the present and scenes on the island become flashbacks? Most importantly of all, did the arrival of the O6 back "home" last night signal we crossed that threshold? Any responses?

I'm wondering about the bodies in the fake wreckage. According to the 6's story, 8 people made it out of the plane and 2 later died on the faux-island. But earlier, all people on the plane were accounted for among the bodies. So does the rest of the world now know that the wreckage was fake? That seems unlikely, given that the 6 washed up pretty near the wreckage location; I think they're trying to pretend that really was their plane.

Did Kate say that Aaron was 5 weeks old? Did she mean at that moment, at the press conference, or did I miss something? No way that baby looks 5 weeks old.

One question: Desmond had a vision that Claire and Aaron boarded a copter together and it left the island. Was he wrong? What's going on here???

Posted by: dc_snark | May 16, 2008 11:25 AM

I think this has been mentioned before (maybe even by Des). He has a premonition of a future event that will happen if everything else stays static. For instance, in his vision Charlie threw the switch and dies and Claire is then rescued. But other things happened besides just Charlie throwing the switch. Other outside forces eventually changed Desmond's original vision and Claire dies.

Jes - I think he's had visions of the future and all and he gets glimpses of what's going to happen, but not necessary *how and when.* Case in point - he told Charlie he was going to die, but never how. He just knew it was going to happen...

So the vision of Claire and Aaron getting off the island was sort of right, but not completely on the mark.

Are we 100% sure Claire is really dead? We just know she left and she is with Christian. I don't think she's dead yet.

Apparently Oceanic was able to get time travel technology to go back in time to hedge against rising fuel costs to be able to pay out settlements large enough to take over South Korean conglomerate companies.

Prediction: Sun and Erin make it to the edge of the ship when it explodes. They end up floating in the water when the dingy makes it back with the next batch, so that's how at least two of the subgroups of the oceanic six are united. Not sure about the rest. Maybe the chopper sees the explosion and comes to rescue but it can't land and and ends up crashing leaving a third group to get in the raft. Can't wait.

Re your discussion on black holes and the Oceanic logo: earlier this week there was mention in another publication of the resemblence between the logo for the Dharma Initiative and the new supercollider being built in Europe. There is speculation that experiments in high energy physics could produce a small black hole. Also the topic of a great new novel by Douglas Preston called "Blasphemy"

I'll have to take another look, but Jack's shirt showed a lot of blood when Kate first called him on it. Later, the blood stain looked dark and no bigger. (And regardless, Jack's been able to run all over the island a day after invasive surgery.)

This plays into two theories:
-- the island is able to heal people with non-fatal wounds (hence Locke's recovery from Ben's gunshot, but not Boone's or his sister's).
-- and/or that certain people simply can't die until they've played their parts (hence the guns malfunctioning when Jack tried to shoot Ben last season, and when Michael tried to kill himself.)

Ben knows this very well; that's why he has the confidence to march into the Losties' camp, and straight into Kearney's men.

He thought the property applied to his daughter, since in some iteration of the future he had seen, she lives -- but that was coincidence, not island-directed fate, so a gunshot to the head could happen -- and was as fatal as Boone's gunshot.

my other guess -- this isn't really novel-- is that this healing property is the cause of the pregnant women's deaths, that the fetus is in essence an invader, a threat to the mother's health, and the island terminates it -- and the mother in the process. Perhaps it's more island fate at work: it can preserve life, maybe indefinitely -- but it will not let you add life to the island.

ok, went on way too long, and head hurts. back to you.

"Any Korean speakers out there know what Jin said to Sun when they discovered the explosives?"

Jin actually said something to the effect of "Hurry, go up to the deck and wait for me up there." Something like that.

Regarding the other person in the plane's cabin, C-130's usually have a loadmaster - someone responsible for cargo, passengers, checking systems, etc. So having an extra person in the scene was intentional, it may have been for the sake of accuracy. I doubt the Coast Guard would leave seven civilians on their own in the back of that plane.

The only saving grace for Desmond may be that he is Daniel Faraday's constant. If they're going to kill him off, why make that the important climax of a great episode?

Reaching for straws here, but I'll be very sad if Des goes.

Jes - I think he's had visions of the future and all and he gets glimpses of what's going to happen, but not necessary *how and when.* Case in point - he told Charlie he was going to die, but never how. He just knew it was going to happen...

Posted by: lostiehead | May 16, 2008 12:44 PM

But he did see how Charlie was going to die each time & he stopped it thus changing his vision. He saw the lightning hit the tent so he created a lightning rod. He saw the booby trap (I don't remember the particulars of that one) and shouted a warning so Charlie dodged it. And last but not least he saw Charlie flip the switch and drown.

Geography question...wasn't the original Oceanic 815 flying from Australia to LA? If so, how does the wreckage and the found losties end up in Indonesia in the opposite direction of the flight path from Australia back to LA?

Jen and Liz don't really seem to have a good handle on the Ben/Locke relationship. Ben is still in charge as much as he can be, and is playng the same old game -- working the street from behind bars. It is Jacob who made the decision to elevate Locke to the role of chief acolyte. Ben may not like that, but he has to accept it, especially after Locke's dream led him to the map to the house. Ben knows that Jacob's support is fickle, and he feels no need to defer to Locke, who he sees as a usurper. Ben loves to use his superior knowledge to taunt Locke as he wrestles with his predicament, but in the end, Locke is going to do the right thing.

Of course Ben was signalling one of his own guys, not Keamy's men. My guess is that he was talking to someone in Richard's group. The big reveal of this show is that this group is alive and well, and gathered in force.

Ben gave himself up because Keamy's men are there for him, not for the Orchid itself. Once they capture Ben, they will take him back to Charles Widmore, leaving the Orchid open for Locke to get in.

In the preview for next week, I thought I heard Locke say, "What have you done?" It's possible that the island move will get screwed up, but it is also possible that the success of the move is what is going to propel the Oceanic 6 off the island.

I still keep coming back to Hurley's comment last week about their living in a dream world which is too good to be true. Jack has Kate, Sayid has Nadia, etc. My theory is that when the island moves, the Oceanic 6 will be propelled into an alternate universe at that point, and that it will take them all of next season to get back to the island in time for the big finish.

I sure hope Desmond survives. His relationship with Penny is too close to the center of this plot, especially now that we know Ben is going to try to kill Penny. Her death wouldn't mean nearly as much if we knew that her chance to reunite with Desmond had already been lost. I think Desmond's going to find a way to get back to the island, and Jin and Michael are going down with the ship. Remember that the Oceanic 6 started out as the Oceanic 8, but two of them died.

Keep your eyes on Claire and Aaron. My guess is that Claire is going to pop out of the woodwork next week...

From Lostpedia:

A little more than two months after the crash, purported wreckage of Flight 815 was discovered by remote operated vehicles deployed by a salvage ship, the Christiane I, in the Sunda Trench near the Indonesian island of Bali, about 2800 miles from Sydney on a bearing roughly perpendicular to the flight's presumed route to Los Angeles

Don't know if that helps any but that is what it says.

As noted before, in their discussions about the takeover of the controlling interest in Paik Industries, there was mention of "five bank accounts." It seems a stretch that Sun's Oceanic settlement, on its own, would be sufficient to purchase a controlling interest in her father's company. However, Sun's settlement pooled with some of the settlement moneys paid to Hurley, Sayid, Jack and Kate could do the trick.

Still not certain that Jin is dead or that he is going to die. It seems pretty clear from preview glimpses that the island is going to "move" somewhere else in the space/time continuum, making it difficult if not impossible for the O6 to locate it again. If Jin is still on that island, he is as dead to Sun as if he were actually buried in that grave in S. Korea. Given what she and Jin went through on the island, and with a child on the way, Sun's grief and her anger at her father would be substantial.

I recognized Michelle Forbes from Star Trek: The Next Generation (she played extremely popular Bajoran Ensign Ro Laren), and as the Medical Examiner on Homicide: Life on the Street.

Mike asked: :Geography question...wasn't the original Oceanic 815 flying from Australia to LA? If so, how does the wreckage and the found losties end up in Indonesia in the opposite direction of the flight path from Australia back to LA?"

The pilot, just before the crash, said they could be thousands of miles off course.

I don't think Jin is going to be one of the fictitious Oceanic 8, as Sun told the press that he never made it off the plane. That is the writers' way of telling us that Jin is not #7 or #8.

There must be a reason that the Oceanic 6's cover story includes two people who made it off the sinking plane but did not make it to the island. Otherwise it's an unnecessary wrinkle to the story. Maybe they know there is some chance of two bodies eventually being found -- and it's not just a matter of who was on the freighter, because four other nameless "red shirt" survivors of 815 were in the first batch Faraday took from the beach -- so the 6 had to account for two dead people to prevent hard questions later. I could see Michael being one of the two, but IF his tale of how he and Walt got to an island, sold Ben's boat, and bought passage on a cargo ship is true, it seems there's quite a risk that someone in the world would recognize his face in the news coverage if/when his body turns up. We've already seen that the Oceanic crash and Oceanic 6 got huge worldwide coverage.

I believe the person in the coffin will be Hurley. Jack was drinking at this time and we started to see his demise after he uncovered that Kate was doing deeds for Sawyer. I think Hurley finally killed himself and that is why Jack looks really shaken up.

Maybe "moving the island" specifically refers to time distortion. Does the actual time to date (from previous references) match up with the time frame they discussed in the press conference? Maybe there's a shift to be found. I haven't tracked close enough to answer that. But I'm sure one of you can.

The coffin was way too small to hold Hurley!

Hurley's parents would have attended the funeral, at least. Didn't Jack say that no one went to the funeral for the yet-to-be identified person?

There's also no way Kate would refuse to go to Hurley's funeral. Definitely not Hurley. My money's on Michael, too.

Maybe it's Miles in the coffin?

We already know the identity of one of the two crash survivors "who didn't make it" to rescue - Jack testifed at Kate's trial that the U.S. Marshal who was bringing Kate back survivied the initial crash, but later "died of his injuries." I think that story of two additional crash survivors who "didn't make it" is just a ploy to make the O6's public survival story a bit more plausible. As for the identity of the second person, it could be any one of the numerous people who died on the island - Boone, Shannon, Eko, Arzt, Libby, Charlie. Could even be Paolo or Nikki (groan).

What was up with Cheech's hair?

sawyer's comment about not wanting to go back to "new othertown" was the line of the night.

Best line was Hurley's mom: "Jesus Christ is not a weapon."

Did you notice how Jack's mom strongly resembles Kate, and how Claire's mom strongly resembles Penny? Remember how Ben picked Juliet because she resembled Jack's ex-wife?

The man in the coffin is Sayid. Jack and Kate don't care about him in the future because of his alliance with Ben.

That is it, mystery solved.

The person in the coffin has to be someone significant. It could be Michael or maybe it's someone we don't know yet. But, it has to be someone that's pivotal to the story. Otherwise, there'd be no reason for Jack to have to go. To prove it to himeself that Mr or Mrs X is really dead. So the question is why? Why are they so significant?

The thing that struck me as odd was how easy it was for Farraday to get back to the freighter. Sure, he follows the right heading, but then so does the chopper. The chopper always has problems. But that little boat made the trip in record time.

Was this intentional, significant or just random?

Finally, there has to be some kind of bargain that was made between the O6 and those left behind on the island. Otherwise, why the ruse on the public? I don't buy the idea that "no one would understand." I think there's a hostage situation or something similar that compels the O6 to create the concocted story.

I wouldn't lie about something where another person's life would be in jeopardy unless the only way to keep them alive was to actually lie. Know what I mean?

A few comments:
1. No one has brought up the reporter's question to Kate about her being 6 months pregnant when being apprehended by the U.S. Marshal. Wonder how that's going to play out since Aaron is clearly looks older than 2 months?
2. I had this sinking feeling that when Faraday went back for the island that it was going to have moved and he wouldn't be able to get back.
Finally, my favorite exchange:
Hurley "How are we going to move the island?"
Ben "Very carefully"

Just wanted to add a little evidence to my theory that the island is in the future. The remains of the statue's foot seen two seasons ago had four toes. There is an idea that's been floated that over time humans will loose the pinky toe. All toes, except the big toe which is used for balance, are pretty much unnecessary. People with long toes run slower for example.

If the four toed statue was made at a time when humans have four toes, that put the island 10s to 100s of thousands of years in the future. And if the Others, or some of them, are humans from that time, we may eventually see someone walking around with four toes in some future episode. Remember that Ben called the Others "the original inhabitants" of the island.

And let me clarify a bit. I don't think the island is from the future. I believe it is IN the future, with a portal allowing access to our time/space. That would mean that the Dharma food drops could be coming from the future and not the present. A time where Dharma rules the world in a orwellian fashion and the Others are rebels, coming back in time to change their future.

Sayid doesn't have friends or family anymore. So he goes killer mode against Ben's enemies, and that does not go well with Kate and Jack.

Sayid dies in the future, and he is the person in the coffin.

Bingo.

Dude master, I like the theory, I really do. But, don't you think that him being apart of the 06 would cause, at least, the media to be there? Plus, all of his money could certainly afford him a nicer coffin.

Nobody cares about the O6 three or four years after the plane crash. About the money, it does not really matter when you unexpectedly die alone (or when you use everything for the revenge).

Tdot is right. Also, the obituary said that the body of "John Lantham" was found in New York, that the death was a suicide, and that he left behind a teenaged son.

Michael jumps to mind, but you always throw the obvious out the window with this show. I'm not sure we know yet who "John Lantham" is but my first guess is he is Karl's father. Why that would break Jack up I have no clue so far, but Karl has always stuck out in my mind as a useless character, unusual for Lost, so I'm guessing he existed to bring another character, his father, into focus.

My second guess is Michael. He would have to have changed his name to not be recognized as an O6 survivor. He would have had a teenage son. And the fact that he successfully committed suicide would mean his "destiny" was over and might signal the island is lost for good along with something Jack cared a lot about, or the end of the world cannot be stopped, or something dramatic like that.

Ben's probably in the coffin. He is short, he has no family or friends who would visit. Kate hates him. His death would probably have an emotional impact on Jack--maybe it signals that his death means that others who were left on the island could now be dead as well, thus causing him to want to jump to his death out of guilt??

Wasn't Jack was still getting recognized on the street at the time? (Or was he only recognized because he was on the news for rescuing the woman in the flaming car? My memory is fuzzy.) But I'm not betting on Sayid. If he were going to kill himself, for some reason I would expect something more violent (i.e., gunshot), rather than hanging, which is kind of passive. Also, the mystery deceased went by John Lantham (according to Lostpedia) and was from NY. Not to be ethnocentric, but I don't see an Iraqi immigrant fooling anyone with that alias.

I'm back to leaning toward it somehow being Locke. John L., someone Jack has to see for himself is dead, someone who Kate wouldn't care about, someone who has no other family or friends...

So, Sawyer's gonna die.

Agree/disagree?

Small clarification: the newspaper article says John Lantham was from NY and was found dead in LA.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Newspaper_clipping

I now think the two of the eight Oceanic Six people who "didn't make it" is to account for two who elect to stay behind: Sawyer and Locke. What happens to all the others is anybody's guess. And who they attribute those two "deaths" to could be any number of the hundreds of people who've played roles in this show.

Has anyone else been bothered by the fact that that little dingy could travel all that distance-round trip from the freighter to the island-and go for a SECOND round trip-without gassing up????

Speaking of "Flashing Forward" has anybody else noticed the screen "jumping" a frame or two every once and a while? To the wife and I it looks intentional and usually when the scene changes. It only seems to happen on/near the island too.

To be clearer...it looks like a video "glitch" but only happens on this show and in nothing else we watch.

Anybody else pick up on this?

:::Has anyone else been bothered by the fact that that little dingy could travel all that distance-round trip from the freighter to the island-and go for a SECOND round trip-without gassing up????:::

Yup, my husband said something about that while we were watching last night.

tbaxter wrote: "Has anyone else been bothered by the fact that that little dingy could travel all that distance-round trip from the freighter to the island-and go for a SECOND round trip-without gassing up????"

Good point. We learned earlier that the freighter was 40 miles off shore. If the dingy had to travel that far it would take a few hours hours and lots of gas. And at today's prices, lots of coconuts.

Sully, get a life you freak.

About Claire.

Someone mentioned that they didn't understand how Claire and Jack could not have made the last name connection.

I believe in one of the Claire episodes she meets her dad, but tells him not to tell her his name (it takes place in a mall or something).

So she doesn't know her dad's name.

Boats seem to have an easier trip than the helicopter. The rocket fired from the ship had problems that the helicopter didn't. The Others used a submarine. Maybe elevation determines how easy it is to get to the island.

From the chat:

Someone wondered if Faraday was "checking in" with his constant Desmond when Faraday took the first group of folks to the freighter. I can't remember but did Faraday and Desmond ever meet on the island? I thought Desmond and Sayid took off on the helicopter and when Desmond started freaking out, they called Faraday with the sat. phone.

Of course, we know they met in a different time and place but I was just wondering if they would recognize each other in person?

Desmond isn't going anywhere. I don't want to post spoilers but there is proof that he's can't die in that possible explosion. But I do think it's the end of Michael ... and maybe Jin. (Although I hope Sun only thinks he's dead and he really isn't and when they all get back to the island she'll have another happy reunion with her husband.)

PC, you're right. When Christian learned that Claire's mother was in a coma following a car accident, he went to Sydney and ran into Claire in the hospital room. They had coffee together but he never told her his name, so there was no way for her to make the connection with Jack.

Anyone think that moving the island triggers the Christmas 2004 Tsunami?
I love how the "6" are scattered all over the island and will somehow end up in a boat together washed up on the Sumba island.
I think when the freighter blows up, Desmond, Jin, Sawyer & Michael are still on it and believed to have "died".
I think the island moves at the same moment the freight blows.
I think the people on the island after it moves will be scattered all over creation and time.

Here are my candidates for Oceanic 7 and 8 -- the ones that the "6" chose to claim initially survived the crash but later died.

First, as someone else pointed out, Jack testified that the U.S. Marshal died from his injuries. I'm not sure why they felt the need to include him -- maybe just to explain how Kate got out of her handcuffs. (Because if, as the story goes, the survivors fled a fast-sinking plane and then floated around for a few days, they wouldn't have the key or any other way to get her out of them. So the marshal's survival is a handy excuse. Very pragmatic.)

The second, I think, must be Sawyer. Because if Kate is going to show up looking for his ex and promising to provide for Clementine, she has to be able to explain how she knew Sawyer, and had an opportunity to bond with him enough to make that commitment. (She wouldn't be able to say they became friends on the flight, because the marshal surely wouldn't have let his prisoner socialize like that.)

Re: 1. No one has brought up the reporter's question to Kate about her being 6 months pregnant when being apprehended by the U.S. Marshal. Wonder how that's going to play out since Aaron is clearly looks older than 2 months?

As mom of one who delivered without pain medication and just wrapped up a year of nursing, I can say with some authority that the whole birth/nursing/baby thread in the show is absolutely the weakest link of the show in terms of the writing. Of course, Aaron looks way older than five weeks (must be baby union rules). Anyway, on the island they are all sorts of implausible stuff in this vein, not least of which was Sawyer emerging from the jungle in last night's episode with a clean, apparently well fed baby in an unsoiled diaper... where did they find spare, snow white cloth diapers and cans of formula in the jungle after they lost Claire? But the writers do this all the time (e.g. at one point a season or two ago they had Claire leave Aaron for 24+ hours w/ no mention of what he'd eat while she was gone (they showed Sun smashing up some fruit for him, but a baby a few weeks old can't digest tropical fruit and Dharma corn flakes) or the fact that it would be physically painful for her not to nurse for over 24 hours and she'd have a milk stained t-shirt by the time she came back... a nursing mother couldn't just waltz off and tell Sun "look after Aaron"). Not to mention the fact that someone might notice Kate isn't capable of nursing Aaron when they're rescued (how'd she feed him all this time?) and that (*warning graphic detail*) she could never go to the gyno again (they'd realize upon examining her she'd never given birth). But I chalk this up to clueless writers (I doubt there is a mom among the writers) and a general lack of regard for accuracy regarding childbirth/nursing on t.v.

In a nutshell: I'm of the opinion one shouldn't interpret any inconsistencies having to do with Aaron's appearance, growth, care or feeding as having anything significant to do with the plot. It's kind of in the same category as everyone's hair always looking so good... file it under suspension of disbelief.

I agree about the baby stuff... at the funeral (Boone's?) right after Aaron was born they had Claire standing around, and I kept thinking "somebody help her sit down! get her feet up! why isn't she strung out?" Given the fact that the dangr of bearing of children on the island is a plot mover (although one of many!) it's pretty lame.

But I still love the show!

Re: the other person on the Coast Guard plane -- Em (11:32am) is right, there is someone else there. The show clues us in on this because Michelle Forbes says "Hello" to him/her, clearly before reaching the Oceanic 6, but we can't see who she's talking to. Abaddon is a good guess.

BTW, no way they hired Forbes to deliver 3 lines in a bit part. She's coming back for more, for some reason.

Sun's corporate takeover is highly unrealistic (not enough money!), but I loved that scene anyway. It didn't feel too Falcon Crest-y. It was the same Sun who threatened Jin's mother.

I believe Ben's plan is just an old-fashioned diversion. But we'll see. Something goes a little haywire because he winds up in Tunisia with a bullet wound in his arm, after he puts on the coat.

Favorite line: Sawyer says something about Hugo, and *Jack* (not Sawyer) responds: "Son of a b----!"

Sun's speech to her dad didn't seem soap opera-ish, Falcon Crest, Dynasty-like at all. I also didn't think it was lazy. It made total sense in the context of Sun's storyline. I actually thought it was great especially since right before she launches her "attack" he insults her with condescension. I don't know--I don't watch a lot of soap operas, but I thought that scene was right on--if it was truly a page out of soap then maybe I should start watching soaps.

Watched it again:

Ms Decker (Oceanic rep) does acknowledge the 3rd USCG 'crew member'.

What's the deal with Charlotte? She's some sorta athropologist or archeologist yet her expertise has yet to used on the island.

The film about the multiplying rabbits always reminds me of the film "The Illusionist" - in which a supposed teletransport machine is developed by Nikola Tesla, but actually, it creates clones. The whole cloning thing could also explain all the people with the same name (Emily) - and people being in two places at once.

"The Illusionist" made the point that it all gets so confusing you end up not knowing which is the "original" and "which is a copy" - and what difference does it make anyway? Dopplegangers, "evil" twins, future selves, alternative selves - it all fits in with the mysteries of "Lost".

Nobody has emphasized the MAIN revelation of this eposide : Oceanic has not only staged the plane crash (we knew), but is also selling a false story to the press.

There is a huge organisation set up to protect the survivors. Who is in charge ? Who ownes Oceanic ? Widmore ? Why protecting the survivors, not killing them ?

Anyone ?

I suppose that what will happen in the next episode is that the others (now under the command of Richard Alpert) will choose John Locke as their new leader, at the expense of Ben. The latter, I guess, will leave through the time machine and appear in Tunisia, and will attempt to regain his power/influence by confronting his off-island enemies. Locke, in turn, will let the Oceanic six leave the island.

What is a little bit different in this season is that Sawyer is the only major character who hasn't had a flash-forward or a flashback. I suppose we'll see one of them in one of the last two episodes; my guess is that he'll stay behind to find Clare, and/or to seek revenge and kill Locke. I feel that Locke's ascendance to power will be costly for the Oceanic 815 group.

It is interesting to note that the music played in the last episode for the Oceanic 6 (when they meet their families after the plane ride, and also at the end, when they show the four different Oceanic 6 spearate groups) is a theme that, as far as I can tell, was used only for Locke (at the end of Walkabout and Deus ex Machina) in the first season.

I actually hope that nobody else dies; all four new characters: Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, and Frank are compelling. Even Naomi and Minkowski were intriguing. Locke's flashbacks are to me the most interesting, but in the island he's the character I like the least; he's too messianic for my taste.

Finally, Sun's taking over a chunk of her father's company occurs a few months after the Oceanic 6 return to civilization (her pregnancy is now appreciable). Could it be that Ben is the one who helps her get enough money to buy it instead of the remaining Oceanic 6?

for

for

H Tran - I agree with you about Charlotte. She gives me the creeps and we still don't know what her deal is, unless I missed it.

About the time/space/mind jumps: As has been discussed ad nauseum here, you can't change things in the past because that would create paradoxes. SO check this out:

Maybe they ARE changing things in the past, knowing full well that they are creating paradoxes. The paradoxes might explain the overlapping and confusion of time, place, and events. (Ben: "You changed the rules")

The story is reminding me more and more of the book The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester (as I recall), where people learn to use Thoughts to "Jaunt" in time and space. It takes time to master jaunting but once they do their thoughts manifest physically.

Hey, why not?

I agree with others that the best line was "Jesus Christ is not a weapon."

I think I'm falling in love with Hurley.
I've gone from Locke to Sawyer to Hurley.
He's so kind and vulnerable, oh my heart.

yikes - that was NOT intended to sound like a bad Haiku love poem with too many syllables.

Don't know why it got printed like that - did one of you jaunt into the past and change it?

Sun's character on lost tv episode
"Theres nothing like home"...
I don't think Sun can actually blame or revenge anyone for her choices made in the past.. falling in love..marrying Jin..have sex and being pregnant by someone..not even so sure who...
She has been seriously a problem kid since young age...causing trouble and headaches to her parents Mr. Mrs. Paik by fooling around sexually...
She is a very immature irresposissble little brat basically who complains...
throw trandrums..nothing but a spoiled and rebelliouse..bad attitude.
I'It'IHer character is "NOT" an admirable one at ALL!!!!!

Jin said to Sun " Go to upstairs and wait there! NOW!!!!" (When they discovered the explosives)

Person in coffin = Hurley!!!

I've wanted to post this in the live discussion for several weeks now, but I always miss it.

Everything from the off island timeline to Jack's emotional response while looking at the obituary leads me to believe it's Hurley. The only thing that made me doubt it was his family not being at the funeral. That is until this last episode.

As Hurley enters his house, there was a bit of a hint which suggested his family was being attacked or killed. It turned out not to be the case, but at that moment I became convinced it was him in the coffin.

My conclusion is that something unfortunate will happen to Hurley's family, and the numbers will drive him to suicide. Just like they've driven other's to suicide. Remember the person Hurley went looking for in Austrailia. His wife said he committed suicide because he believed the numbers were unlucky, just like Hurley does.

Didn't we already see Hurley try to kill himself only to discover that he can't die?

Or was that before he was on the island?

Using Quicktime to go frame-by-frame I have noticed that on frame 1995 (1:23) we can see the face of the dark figure in the back of the cargo plane!

looks a bit like Michael to me but not 100%

For, thanks so much for the musical reference to season 1. This music played when they meet their families was perfect. I was happy to learn it has been used twice before.

And it is the same theme used in the last scene, wich is powerful and inspired.

Jef

aT1IBl

its true!
can anyone get a high def screen grab of that guys face??!

Sully, you rock, week in and week out.

Don't remember if it was season 1 or 2, but Charlie was shown with a tattoo on his arm that said, "Living is easy with eyes shut." Nice tie-in to all of the other ocular imagery in the show (e.g., all of the opening close-up shots of characters opening their eyes). The overriding theme of the show may be that love (between family, friends) transcends time (no matter how time is manipulated), and that memories of those whom we love are the true constant. Perhaps the evolution of the major Lost characters leads each one of them to "open their eyes" and come to this realization.

The person in the coffin has to be Michael. He is not one of the O6 so no media. Nobody likes him, not his mom or son, so no mourners. Jack and Kate are dazed because he couldn't die and now did.

I think Daniel comes back with the boat and the people decide that Sun should get off the freighter because it is going to blow and she is pregnant and has Aaron. That's how the O6 get back together.

Also, Locke is the chosen one. Ben is the master. Like Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Obi Wan doesn't get PO'd when Anakin comes along, he wants to help him make the world better. Just like Ben, Obi Wan doesn't like not being the favorite anymore, but oh well, it is what it is. Ben knew this moment would come and he needs to do his job and not worry about not being the favorite of Jacob anymore.

Carnis, your theory about jaunting is interesting and I think may be on the right track.

I can't help thinking about the finale's title "There's no place like home." When that line is said in the film the Wizard of Oz, Glinda tells Dorothy that she always had the power within her to go back home, she only had to "think" herself there and she was back in Kansas. Maybe that's all the characters have to master, the ability (with the island's power) to think (or jaunt) themselves home.

How this would play out in the series (if at all) is a mystery to me, but then that's why I love this show so much, like life itself it can be so frustrating and mysterious...

nylostfan - great tie-in with The Wizard of Oz. And it reminds me of another aspect of The Stars My Destination - it's not just that they learn to jaunt, they must first learn to Think. And THEN learn to Jaunt. Great book, if nothing else.

mtm - "Living is easy with eyes closed" is from a Beatles song. "Living is easy with eyes closed/misunderstanding all you see.."

Hmmm. Never mind how the story elements come together in Lost, I'm almost MORE curious now about how all the References tie together. Or can they be as haphazard as the plot turns seem to be? Hope not.

Camis

PJ4 | May 18, 2008 4:27 PM (above) has it correct, at least the first two observations about Michael in the coffin and how the O6 get together. I don't think the freighter will blow since Michael cannot be killed. Fate always steps in to save him, and it will with the explosive, as long as he stays on the boat. So the fuse will fail or something like that, and the freighter will not blow. But since everyone believes it will blow there will be a fight to get on the boat when Dan returns. This is where I see Jin dying, fighting to make sure Sun gets on the boat and away from the freighter. I think Jack, Kate, and Sayid get on with Dan. Desmond and Michael will sail the freighter back to civilization because Michael knows the heading to follow to find rescue. Michael will return to raise Walt, Des will seek out Penny.

As for Locke being the "chosen one", I think you are onto something. The tie in with Star wars is a good one. I agree Locke is special. He seems to have mind-traveled back (are we calling it jaunting now?) to himself as a baby (or before). But Alpert's continued disappointment seems to point to Locke being chosen but failing. Locke seems to be being groomed for leadership by the Others, but remember Locke's famous words: "Don't tell me what I can't do!". I think Locke will continue to disappoint. So another was chosen just in case: Walt. I expect Walt to be returned to the island, when he is 18, which would be 2009 Lost time, so I expect next season we see Walt return in present time, as an adult and the same actor (I wouldn't be surprised if the actor playing Walt is holding a contract with ABC). He will become the chosen one who succeeds and saves the island.

There, now I can go get some sleep...

RE: "

The film about the multiplying rabbits always reminds me of the film "The Illusionist" - in which a supposed teletransport machine is developed by Nikola Tesla, but actually, it creates clones."

The movie you're referring to is The Prestige.

Could it be that Keamy is Ben's mole? After all, Ben went somewhere, presumeably back in time, after Alex was killed. If he turned Keamy, then that's why Ben went to him. The detanator on Keamy's arm would then destroy Widmore's ship, something that Ben would want.

Has anyone noted the similarities between Lost and the novel Lost Horizons (which later became a movie with Ronald Colman). (Coming in late to the discussion.) Many similarities besides the name. Plane crash, hidden mysterious place, even time travel in a sense. Jack very much in the mode of the Ronald Colman character.

don't forget that people get off the island other ways. Flash forwards show Ben off the island, and flashbacks show Mr. Friendly in NYC. So it doesn't have to be Michael or a member of Oceanic 6 in the coffin.

I read every week and can't believe I have an original thought! (I'm sure someone will tell me if this has been said).

Keamy does not have a bomb on his arm at all. It is a detonator for the bomb on the boat. The signal they pick up on the boat when setting the coordinates is the bomb's tie to Keamy. Keamy can either destroy the boat when/if he wants, or if the boat trys to leave it loses Keamy's signal and the bomb explodes.

So what happens is that the island moves with Keamy, the boat loses the signal and explodes.

I think it is Michael in the coffin. That is why Jack falls apart and has to meet Kate at the airport. Because Michael isn't supposed to die, but does. So that means to Jack that the island is gone for good. So all their friends on the island are gone for good.

Locust, great observation about how similar the show is to "Lost Horizons". Great book and wonderful movie! In the end, doesn't the character try to find the city in the mountains again, but can't?

Sun is terribly confused pittyfull immature daughter telling her own dad that he should respect her now becuause she has the filthy power of money from somewhere..
She believes somehow she definitely can buy respect from her father with money.
This is the stupidest act sun plying..

"Sun is terribly confused pittyfull immature daughter telling her own dad that he should respect her now becuause she has the filthy power of money from somewhere..
She believes somehow she definitely can buy respect from her father with money.
This is the stupidest act sun plying.."

Is this Sun's dad? LOL :)

Waaay late checking in, but my favorite comment was when Sawyer called Miles "Genghis" right before Jack and Kate found them.

Also, agree with all of JKR's comments posted on May 17, 2008 12:07 AM re Aaron and childbirth/chilrearing problems.

Unless Kate has given birth in the past, it seems odd that a routine physical (that surely all the survivors would be given) wouldn't reveal that Kate hadn't delivered a baby and wasn't, therefore, Aaron's mother. And wouldn't there always be a risk of blood tests and DNA proving that she wasn't related to him? Definitely a weak link in the storyline.

ReadyForHome - Good one ! LOL.

Perhaps her behavior is not in line with traditional Korean values. Would also be shocking in Western cultures I think, not to stir up culture-clash issues here. We got enough on our hands! King Lear anyone?
But she has always been cold and conniving. Learned it from dear old dad.

Maybe when we learn what happened to Jin we will understand her motivation, even if we disapprove of her actions. She sure isn't the only character with faulty moral radar.

Meanwhile back at the ranch -

SULLY FOR PRESIDENT !

After re-watching "Meet Kevin Johnson" I realize "I was wrong".

"I'm sorry".

"Those pants do not make you look fat."

OK, I wasn't wrong about quoting the famous Sawyer-Jin scene, I was wrong about mentioning in the Chat that I thought Michael's mother said that Michael and Walt were gone 6 months. She said to Michael that they were gone "more than 2".

So the real world timeline makes (a bit) more sense now.

interesting post thx

nice work man 10x

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Sully, no clue what's going on with that poster, but you are one of the best posters here, with ideas that are always well thought out and intelligent. Please don't let some idiot keep you from posting again!

98102 - Just want to make sure you weren't referring to my "Sully for President" comment. I think Sully is great and I love reading his/her posts. I've said so before. Maybe there's a post here I'm not seeing, but if you meant me I want to clarify that I meant no disrespect or criticism.

Am I just being paranoid? I hope so.

Camis

Camis

"Sun is terribly confused pittyfull immature daughter telling her own dad that he should respect her now becuause she has the filthy power of money from somewhere..
She believes somehow she definitely can buy respect from her father with money.
This is the stupidest act sun plying.."

Actually a very good point! Why would Sun want to control her dad's business? Jin isn't employed there anymore since he is dead. Most people with "dad issues" would have taken their millions and gotten as far away from dad as possible, especially since she now has a baby.

So Sun buying controlling interest is either purely out of vengence and spite (yea, like Dallas), or she is doing it for a purpose, maybe as part of the Ben/Widmore war. Maybe Paik Industries is part of Widmore's empire, and by gaining a controlling percentage she can do her part in Ben's war. I'm not sure which it might be, spite or war, but I do know the second possibility is more in line with Lost.

I'm betting Sun will use Paik Industries to fight not only what he dad is doing, but Widmore too. That may also be why all 5 adults of the O6 combined their money into Paik. Remember, it came from 5 different banks, and it may be why they were allowed to leave and be rescued, but only Sun will be doing the fighting through Paik Industries. This is looking more and more like a plan of Ben's.

Oh, and I'm still convinced Michael is in the coffin. We know he cannot die until he fulfills his destiny. His death means it has been fulfilled. Once we know what his destiny is we will know why Jack is so broken up.

---SULLY FOR PRESIDENT !---

Ha!
I don't know how to take that ... sort of a dual meaning like "hope you live in interesting times" wish? I wonder which candidate Widmore is backing ;-)

camis - No, not you! There is some other poster (under the name "Sully's Mom") that keeps popping up and being a jerk to Sully.

-----

I'm very late to this thread (work obligations kept me from watching the episode until last night)... I just read the post from Doc J about the 17 mysteries the show needs to solve. I thought that the most interesting one, one that I hadn't even thought of as a possibility until now, was about Abaddon and said that a big theory out there is that Abaddon could be WALT.... any takers?

98102 -

whew!

good to know I'm just paranoid.

and now.... on with the show!

Camis

98102 wrote: "...a big theory out there is that Abaddon could be WALT.... any takers?"

Wow, hadn't even entered my mind. Of course anything is possible in Hollywood, and even more possible on Lost, but I would be surprised since Walt looks nothing like Abaddon. You would think if they were the same they would try to hire actors that at least look similar.

So I guess I'm leaning on the skeptical side of this. Its clear Abaddon works for Widmore and I really doubt Walt would end up working for him. I mean, Keamy tried to kill his dad, and the freighter with his dad on board might be blown up by the people Abaddon put on board. I don't see a future Walt being a part of that. But I do think Walt and his dad were released by the Others, who called Walt "very special", for a purpose. I'm sure we will see Walt in the future, but I doubt he will be Abaddon. I see him coming back as a 19 year old to take over the island from Ben and Locke once the fighting is over.

But I think Abaddon's role is pretty clear. His name means "destruction". He put together the freighter crew which is trying to get Ben and the island. Note that he did not recognize Michael as a Lostee when he was hired to work on the freighter. I think that is significant since I would imagine Abaddon would have screened everyone for such a mission. So unless a twist is thrown in I'm going with the way things seem to be building: Abaddon works for Widmore, he is bad, he hired the freighter people who are doing a lot of destruction on the island. Abaddon, like Alpert, have been working for a long time against each other. Its also worth noting that when Locke was recovering from the fall in the hospital, Abaddon was the Orderly who suggested Locke go to Australia and do a walkabout. That led Locke to be on flight 815. Maybe Abaddon, knowing how Locke was a failure to Alpert, wanted Locke to be on the island.

Regarding Sun's take over, I think she just wants to shut down her Dad's evil and violent empire. It has to be pretty shocking to find out that your Dad is a mobster. I think her rage comes from her knowing how her Dad made her husband do these terrible things and she was the cause. I loved the scene. Not Dallasy.

Des fans, if my theory is correct and Michael is in the box, that means that the freighter didn't blow up and Des could still be alive since Michael was, for a while anyway.

Also, anybody else think the name Abaddon is interesting? Like the British term for someone who didn't turn out good. A bad'un (A bad one). As in, "That Michael, he's a bad'un."

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http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/05/episode-101-pilot-object-with-jack.html

Very interesting theory about the baton Ben gives to Locke and the opening scene with Jack from Season 1 Episode 1... Good point - why would Ben even need to give the baton to Locke? What's so special about the baton that he would care if Keamy took it? I'm not sure I'm convinced that it's the same object seen with Jack (although, if it's not, what the heck is that in the screen grab? I've never noticed it before, but, as with all things Lost, it must have some meaning), but maybe it DOES somehow facilitate time travel and eventually help Jack re-find the island?

OK, obviously I'm reading too many conpiracy theories lately. The object in that screen grab is too thick to be a baton (duh) but I still don't think it's just bamboo. And, still, why would Ben need to hand that baton over to Locke... it can't just be the symbolism and de-arming himself, right? :)

PJ4 wrote: "Regarding Sun's take over, I think she just wants to shut down her Dad's evil and violent empire."

But why would the other four of the O6 want to help by giving Sun their money? Remember, the takeover money came from 5 different banks, so it looks like the O6 (all but Aaron) pooled their money to allow Sun to takeover Paik Industries. I doubt they would have given all of their money just to help Sun get back at her dad, no matter how mad she may be. I think they are up to something, probably letting Sun use her control over Paik Industries to fight the "war". Maybe that was part of a deal to let them leave the island. Anyway, I expect Sun to start using Paik Industries to fight for the island, and Ben.

98102 wrote: "And, still, why would Ben need to hand that baton over to Locke... it can't just be the symbolism and de-arming himself, right? :)"

I think the handoff was both disarming himself (he knew Keamy would take it) and the symbolism of handing over control of the operation, and thus his leadership, to Locke. Once Ben is captured, his life now depends on Locke. Ben just put a lot of faith into Locke. I don't think the baton is some sort of time travel device but I could see it as a communication/tracking device besides being a weapon.

And the thing next to Jack in the screenshot does not look like the baton. Too thick. Here is a shot someone made comparing the two things (the inset picture is the batton being handed by Ben to Locke):

http://www.rasty.com/files/JackDevice.jpg

As you can see, the baton is smaller than the thing next to jack and shaped differently. The thing next to Jack however is the same size and shape as the green bamboo next to Jack. My opinion: Its black (dead) bamboo.

I don't get why people are so disturbed by Sun's takeover. Of course the settlement wasn't enough! It's called leverage. With a lot of money (a settlement's worth) and a good plan (take over this business and make it more profitable) a bank will lend you significantly more money than you have. She would have needed potentially less than 5% in cash of the actual amount of money to buy 51% of the outstanding voting stock of the company ...

Sully - in a hostile take over, you don't want to arouse suspicion by buying shares all from one source. So if Sun wanted to blind-side her dad, she would have moved her own money to different banks and bought shares. But the fact that it is from 5 banks definitely does make us believe that it came from 5 of the O6. The point of my comment was that I didn't think it was a cheesy scene. If it was only Sun or the group, it was equally fun to watch Mr. Paik squirm. If the money is from the other O6ers, then we know that Sun is doubly PO'd because of what he did to Jin and also for what she suffered because of Paik and Widmore. Loved it!

Also, what is up with these "upskirt" posters? Am I missing something?

Also, don't forget that Sun probably already had a lot of shares in the company. She is Paik's only child right?

Hadn't considered Sun's existing shares in Paik. Either way, I think what she does with Paik Industries will involve the Ben/Widmore war. Its just too tempting to make Sun a warrior in this show. That girl's got spunk!

I can't wait another week!

Getting confused (understatement) :

Are Widmore and Paik in business together?
Does Ben work for one of them - or did he?

Can someone give me a brief summary of who the main business players are and how they are connected to each other and to Oceanic?

Sully, if you were President you could create The Department of Obscure Literary, Scientific, and Rock Lyric References. And then hire all of us. Voila - world peace!
I'll drop the president tangent now.

I wish I could meet some of you out there. But I'm in Hollywood, where all things are possible but very little gets done.

Camis

Its not clear if Widmore and Paik are in business together. They both seem to be very wealthy and they know peo