Hezbollah fighters are also civilians which explains the high count of civilian casualties (only among male adults). Do you think, Hezbollah fighters would be so stupid to wear their Hezbollah uniforms while they are fighting this war? Of course not. And when they are killed by Israelite bombs/guns, of course the surrounding comrades, will remove any ammunitions, guns or identifications linking them to Hezbollah and present them to the gullible, bleeding-heart Western media/press/TV coverage as " civilian casualties" - a fool-proof propaganda tool to crucify the victim country, Israel , as the violent aggressor guilty of war crimes. What a joke!

the Rev and Dmitry are probably propagandists for Hezbollah. Probably.

some people here are Hezbollah's propagandists who are joining this type of opinion site to sway public opinion against Israel. It is very obvious - they continue their lines of ignoring the fact that Hezbollah started this by its cross-border killing and kidnapping and that even before this, Hezbollah has been continually firing rockets at Israel for years, which the latter had endured without full military response (as the current one) until this latest cross-border Hezbollah's crime. Aren't terrorist killings also genocide and crime against humanity. How many lives were lost to terrorism? If Israel and the US were to be accused of these; then the muslim terrorist and their sponsors should be accused of the same and be tried first in the Hague.

the civilians trapped in Southern Lebanon, including australian citizens, had been given 48 hours of a lull in bombing, but are still there. Obviously, they are either sympathizers of Hezbollah or are being kept as hostages by Hezbollah to be used as :
1. human shields for Hezbollah's protection, and once dead, as Hezbollah's propaganda tactics to turn public anger against Israel as genocide/international crimes to humanity.
2. as a source of food and medical supplies for Hezbollah. The civilian presence will require international aid for food/medicines to be sent to Southern Lebanon, in this way, Hezbollah will have sustenance to keep on fighthing Israel, even for months.
What an ingenious tactics of Hezbollah. The civilized, democratic, non-Muslim world/countries, especially the Western countries and their pathetic press/commentators are way behind the Muslim Extremist Mind.

A complicating factor that is ignored by the author is that Hizballah uses human shields as part of their strategy. In addition, the aerial bombing campaign in Kosovo (by NATO) was against the occupation force (Serbs), not the guerilla force (Albanian Kosovars).

Last time I checked....Hezbollah fired 90 rockets on the sabbath. I doubt Israel will stop defending itself as long as the terrorists keep firing at them.

But make no mistake about it, Israel decides if and when it will fire its rockets, not Hamas or Hezbollah. Both sides have options!

And like I said, lets see what the other side does on its holiest days of the year, if this stuff is sitll going on!

Last time I checked....Hezbollah fired 90 rockets on the sabbath. I doubt Israel will stop defending itself as long as the terrorists keep firing at them.

F. Desmeules, Canada

I meant to add the following:

I used to be deeply involved in the Stanford University Community, before and after Dr. Rice became provost under Dr. Caspar.

I was a friend of the Chaplain's Office and very close to one of the Assistant Deans.

Lake Lagunita was one of my favored spors to conduct baptisms.

I was an Administrator and also a member of The Executive Board for Afro-American Staff and Faculty.

Many of us found Dr. Rice to be an ideologue at that time, and as intratable as she has been during her tenure with the Bush Administration. Having said that, she will always meet you with a smile and a hearty handshake, as she carries the dagger in her purse.

Although she does not create American Foreign Policy, believe me she will see to it that it, rightly or wrongly, that it is carried out, and no matter who it hurts!

Just my perception of Dr. Rice, and the part that is playing in covering up for Israel, as we continue to supply them with weapson. By shuttling back and forth around the world, she is simply buying time for them to get the job done.

The Rev

Amen Brother F. Desmeules (-:

Man, the Israelis won't even stop the fight on the Sabbath. It kind of reminds me of killers who bombed a church in Alabama and killed 4 children about 4 decades ago.

When we get to Ramadan, if this thing is still going on, we will see what the other side does.

Factually, 85% of all of the weapons and munitions in the world are supplied by the 5-permanent members of the United Nation's Security Council. Along with the other 10 nations of the UN Security Council, those nations were voted in to secure peace around the world. There is a lot of hypocrisy going on!

I guess these nations; including the U.S.A. believe in, peace through annihilation.

No, you are not naive; the people of the world are being duped. Most of us have simply outsourced our security and our futures to ideologues who are more concerned about power, consumerism and perception! The people of Lebanon and Israel are guilty of the same. By the way, there have been Israel citizens who have demonstrated against the war by their own nation against Lebanon.

But America has no choice but to support Israel, in that Israel is simply mimicking the behavior of its Big Brother. We could stop the violence in Iraq anyday that we choose and we could have the slaughter that is taking place in the Middle-East by both sides, stopped anyday that we desired. However, we are on a mission and we have no intention of stopping any of it all of are objectives are accomplished.

Israel is helping to accomplish our objectives, and we will continue to support them, as we send Dr. Rice shuttling around the world to engage in double-speak!

I am not a supporter of Hezbollah or terrorism. I disagree with extremism.

I just want to ask a simple and naive question:

On CNN a week ago an editorialist asked- : If Iran sell rockets to Hezbollah, Is Iran a country that should be accountable for encouraging the war in Lebanon ?
We have learn that U.S has loaded two full 747 planes of bombs for Israel. Apparently they already miss some ammunition...

A Secretary of State negociating peace while US sell bombs to Israel ? What is the best way to end a war ? Maybe stopping the sales/gift ?
It kills civilians. It destroy homes, It kills people ! It kills childrens ! And childrens are not politically good or bad !
Why are they selling the bombs ?
WHY ?

How can a democratic and civilised country can be the pusher of death ? Don't you think Lebanese people will not remember ? Don't you think the little girl with his face burned on the third degree will not remember? And us, will we remember her ? How long ?
Where is our heart ? where is empathy ? What do we cherish as human values ? What is the value of a human being in middle east or elsewhere ?
May god forgive this awfull Bush America.

F. Desmeules, Canada

Paul,

I appreciate your distinction between judiasm and zionism. The only problem I see with this argument in today's world is that Hezbollah attacks unprovoked. They did it with the US marine barricks in Beirut and they do it in Israel today. Their mission is not one of peace for the region, but one to destabilize it. The US had an opportunity to take care of Hezbollah after it was attacked in 1983, but we withdrew and left it unharmed. The result is their incrase in power and continued terrorist attacks. The only way to fight a terrorist is to destroy it.

We talk about how radical Islamist have Hijacked the moslem faith. Well, that just maybe. But what is FOR SURE is that the Zionists have hijacked Judaism, and hide behind 'the holocaust' when confronted with their crimes. The methods and tactics of the Zionists are so far from the values of Judaism that I am certain that Moses and Abraham are turning in their graves. I RESPECT Judaism, I am repulsed by Zionism. But of course, the cowardly Israelis (too cowardly to go into Labanon and confront Hizbullah mano a mano) always excuse thier butchery with some absurd tie in to the "holocaust".

I pray the Lebanese deal a MORTAL blow to the cowardly Zionists.

Signed: Honorably Discharged American Veteran

Mr Arkin,
You are asking 'Do the US and Israel feed a world of terror?'
This is a loaded question indulging into the presumptions of their official propaganda. Let's see into it...One could answer either 'yes' or 'no'to your question.
A) If one answers 'yes', this would then mean that what you designate as 'a world of terror' refers to the world of those that are not with us (i.e. the US and Israel), to use the presidential infantile and naive dichotomy (either with us or against us) in which the alternative conduct to our's will always and necessarily be terrorist. Thus no matter what we do: torture, jail without trial, kill chirurgically in thousands or hundreeds civilians, the terrorists will always be the other one (against us.) Right?
B)If one answers 'no', this would then mean that those that are against us are somehow and naturally 'terrorists', since we didn't do anything that might have cause them to behave the way they do. They are just being irrationally violent.Right?
The loaded question is serving a wishful thinking in which the complexity of historical reality disappears. That is, a reality where not only our desire, our aspirations and hopes, but also the hopes, aspirations and desires of others are accounted for.

Could forgetting Israel's guilty origins -- not remembering the holocaust -- be what drives Israel to pummel little punching-bag countries to admit its right to exist? Is Israel's only road map to physical -- and psychic -- security forcing the Arab world to accept its guilty rationalizations? Nice deal if you can get it.

Meanwhile back at the settlements: if you successfully rationalize settling your citizens in captured territory to be no different morally from picking up land in Arizona, then, the emotional concomitant is to expect that, sooner or later, "unjust" opposition must call it quits.

This social instinct one-two may be called the "territorial imperative".

OTOH, frankly admitting that usurping another's turf makes you the bad guy, "instinctively" warns you that attempting to squeeze even below 10% of your population -- limited benefit -- among millions of angry original occupants -- guarantees permanent warfare for 100% of your people: thus spake Richard Nixon and Moshe Dayan.

Israel's latest war for forgetfulness?: treating a couple of minor infantry skirmishes as -- a couple of minor infantry skirmishes -- might be too close a "social instinct" match for Israeli soldiers as illegal occupiers who should expect their fair share of resistance -- which is where we came into this movie.

Should Israel ever give up moral rationalizing and proceed rationally to renounce its role as the most dangerous nation in the Middle East (armed with 100 nuclear weapons!), quite rational people (a Nixon?; a Dayan?) confidently predict that the "silent Arab majority" is willing to live with (even if that means "put up with") the fact of Israel's creation (but never with Arab prisons named "creating facts"!).

Let's make a deal: after Israel withdraws 400,000 settlers from the West Bank, the USA and others may be able to send millions more Jews to Israel to stave off its worrisome Arab population time bomb. Five of the world's thirteen million Jews already live in the Jewish state despite WW 33 1/3 always going on. Israel should confidently expect additional millions to make Aliyah if geopolitical sense ever rules.

And there's more: many Europeans live out their retirement in North African locations like Algeria in order to stretch their pensions. An Israel at permanent peace with its neighbors could make an attractive retirement destination (sunny Algeria? -- but Israel will have to keep prices down). Retirees would more Europeanize Israel without lessening its Jewishness because they would not become citizens -- as well as give Europe a personal interest in Israel's safety.

Personal PS: I never get depressed; I feel good when I should feel bad; but daily TV viewing Israel chew up its cowering neighbors' vital infrastructure for -- no discernable benefit beyond -- extended target practice discourages me more than anything since America trade skyscrapers for settlements on 9/11/01.

Denis Drew
Chicago
ddrew2u@comcast.net
www.purpleocean.org/blog/80

I totally agree with what Wm Arkin has written. Israel is playing war too tough by destroying the Lebanese infostructure.

And thank you M. Stewart,

I can simply imagine the positive impact that America could have on the world, if we would simply live up to what we say that we believe in.

There is something greater I believe, than what our many religious faiths have gotten us to. Perhaps its our own fault.

However, I believe that when people can come to realize and embrace it, all of the temporarl things that we so get attached to, and those ideals that so are so entrenched within the human psyche; the same that we will annihilate people for, will always disappear.

Lately, I am depending on science and enlightened people to help get us there. Okay, here goes one of my caustic statemtennts agin, but honestly, I suspect that the religious folks simply want to fight it out, about what they believe is right with respect to their own belief systems.

I close: A man said the other day, that the end of all arguments is theology.

I will be pondering that all weekend...

The Rev,

As a matter of fact I am a democrat. But who is calling out names now? Your accusations as to how history unfolded itself in which only you apparently
----------------------

I was finished blogging for the day; however, I will answer you...

I am an Independent, in saying that I simply try to vote for the best person for the job, and what's best for the nation and the whole world. One cannot ignore the latter, given America's influence and impact on the world.

It is obvious that we both agree and disagree on some points, and I am okay with that. The most salient thing that we agree upon is that innocent lives should not continue to be disposed of in this manner.

With regard to the changing world, where groups like Hezbollah are fighting non-conventional warfare and in answer to your question what to do, perhaps it is time for the proverbial 'fork lift upgrade', with respect to the way that America views and has chosen to ignore these groups up to now. .

Many of us were and have been parents. Occasionally there is that non-conforming sibling in the mix. You can't ignore, beat or kill the child. Since America wants to be the world's guardian, it will never be successful by ignoring, beating or killing its wards.

What were the benefits of former President Nixon engaging The People's Republic of China? What were the benefits of sitting down and talking with former General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev? What have been the benefits of speaking directly with Moammar Khadafi? Well, in my view we have some semblance of peace with all of the groups or nations represented here. And by the way, why is the U.S.A. cozying up to the Warlords in Somalia? Weren't they bad guys a decade ago?

I have some ideas but I would not want to bore you with them. But let me just say, we have had oppressed disparate people in our nation's history, who were accused of being terrorists, communist, subversives and the like, simply because they were different or held a different point of view. These groups were accused and treated as separatists and aliens within their own land, and some still are.

Why? Sadly, this is a majoritarian society, and the majority simply did not have any interest in a group of people who ware not a part of the majority, or who share the majority viewpoint. The cognitive dissonance that is so inbred in the American psyche, by and large has resulted in the creation of frustrated people around the world who are simply acting out of their frustrations. Many Americans hold the same point of view against the other minorities around the world.

Do Americans really care? I think not. And what do most people of the world want, well we could go back and start with Maslow and move forward, or on the other hand Americans could simply ask themselves, what do you want? Guess what, other people want the same thing!

Let's stop denying other people their rights, so that we can all co-exist in a peaceful manner on this planet.

Question:

Do you suppose that America could learn something, about disparate people around the world, by sitting down and engaging outcasts in its own society in meaningful discourse? I guarantee you that a lot could be learned. America really missed out on learning from a powerful resource that is already has here.

I heard someone say the other day that everything is filtered through the brain, and what is filtered may not always appear to be same, in the final analyses, to every viewer.

In America we have our perceptions based upon how we perceive things; other people in other nations are just the same. Whose right? Well let's sit down and talk. Send me, as Isaiah once said, I'll go!

And still...no answers as to how to solve the terrorist attacks waged on Israel since it was created.

To: The Rev

Thanks for your Comments!

Until the Iraq War I was a staunch Republican, whose politics ran to the right of Ghengis Khan...NO MORE, and I don't believe I am in the Minority! You are correct, we need a drastic change in our Government to put an end to the senseless killing!!!

As a retired Army Officer, I have seen too many dead bodies...at some point it has to end. There has to be a better way than Bombs and Bullets!!!

The Rev,

As a matter of fact I am a democrat. But who is calling out names now? Your accusations as to how history unfolded itself in which only you apparently know the truth and then promoting Nazi like regimes is anything but preaching peace or even recognizing the jewish state or right for their existance. If you would like to engage in civil conversations than I would suggest that you take a different approach.

While I applaud those who don't like to see civilian causaulties...and I'm assuming you are not just speaking about the Lebanese, no one has suggested how to end a conflict in which a terrorist organization has called for a states destruction? Clearly diplomacy didn't work since Israel withdrew from the very same land Hezbollah was fighting for, yet they still sent missles and they still engaged in abducting their soldiers. Not even the IRA called for Britain's annhilation, nor did they fire missles for 6 years in a row over to Britain.

While both sides may agree that loss of civilian life is not the objective, no one has stated how to fight a terrorist regime that clearly embeds itself among civilians.

In response to the US and Israel having weapons...the US has not sought to expand itself beyond its own borders for atleast the last 150 years and neither has Israel. Neither of these countries have raised "islamic jihad" for further expansion into surrounding terroritories. Their right to hold weapons lies in the fact that Israel has been attacked since the UN granted it as a state and has been dealing with terrorist attacks from its birth via PLO, Fatah, Hezbollah, etc. I don't allows agree with our president's choices of battle either, but this is not just a fight for Israel's right to exist, this is Israel fighting a terrorist regime who has been calling for its destruction for the past 20 years.

Last entry today I promise:

Israel mimics the U.S.A. ...

About 13 or 14 years ago, Saddam and IRAQ invaded and occupied Kuwait. America said, 'that is not the right thing to do'.

So America sent its troops to drive Saddam out of Iraq, and afterwards stuck around and maintained a decade long no-fly zone in Iraq.

Having tired of the no-fly zone, America turns around and invades and occupies Iraq. Well, actually America was attacked by the Saudi's of Afghanistan, and after invading Afghanistand and installing American troops, then America attacked and occupied Iraq.

Saddam goes to jail and Bush democratizes Iraq by killing most of the representatives in Saddam's government, and his children.

Sound familiar with Israel? Lets see how this things turns out for there really are some similarities.

Well, is it right or wrong, to invade and occupy a sovereign nation, it would appear that it was wrong when Saddam did so.

I suppose what matters is, which 2 countries are doing the invading, and the occupying?

By the way, the citizens of the House of Kuwait, The Japanese, South Koreans, shall I go on, have all said that the U.S.A. needs to learn to stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries. I thought we helped them(-:

Oops, we once occupied Japan too, didn't we?

Americans should pay special attention to the comments of one that has been there...

i was Jewish but resigned a number of years ago in disgust at the corruption of what once was one of the worlds great religions, with ethical and moral values, into a narrow israelist nationalism with most rabbis nothing more than israel bond salesmen.
thanks to the AIPAC apparat's infiltration of our administration and its Christian
fundamentalist cohorts, the neocon zionists
(Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith et al ad nauseam),have gotten American troops into the middle east so as to help israel obtain and hold its "liebensraum".
the U.S. has not only lost the (Afghan/Iraq) war it started so cavalierly and unthinkingly and both nations are on the deserved decline and perpetual attack.
Lebanon reminds me that during WWII, when resistance fighters captured/killed German soldiers, an entire village ould be slain in retaliation.
how utterly ironic that jews should have ecome the new nazis

Folks, that my vocation happens to fall under the caption of religion, and since I have spent years studying it, I can tell you that in many ways, Karl Marx was right about religion.

Why do I stay, for the good that has been done and can be done as we continue to go though enlightenment. Having said that, I wish that what we do, did not fall under the caption of religion.

Remember that Chris Tucker line... in the movie Rush Hour. Rather than be identified as an L.A.P.D. police officer, he or his mother simply told people that he was a drug dealer.

Sometimes its that bad for us too. A lot of bad stuff has been done in the name of religion, no matter what faith you are from. Some of my fellow ministers of the cloth simply tell people that they are motivational speakers. Ah, I just call myself the Rev.

But really, I believe more in the revolutionary aspects of JC. He spoke truth to power; he spoke out against unjust oppression; he spoke out against double-standard and hypocrisy; he tried to uplift the downtrodden; and guess what, he wasn't accepted in the orthodox (CONSERVATIVE) religious circles of his time either.

The last suit that he wore was a cross!

I am counting on some of you skeptics out there (I mean it) to help us, in a post-modern world, to discover all that what is outside of a 1-dimension of time, 3 dimension of space, world, that is responsible for our 1 dimension of time, 3 dimension of space existence wants from us.

I love the words of an atheist who said, I don't believe in god, I believe you folks made it up; I have no agenda with god; however, if I found out that there is one I would do what "it" wants me do. IN fact he welcome knowing what 'it', that has caused him to be here intended.

I can prove by the Hebrew Scriptures of the Christian bible, that 'it' was not asking for religion!

Perhaps if we approach 'it' some other way like quantum physics, and not through religion, all of the reasons that we have for fighting and killing, will no longer be of any consequence!

Well said Jaxes!

In the first Gulf War we encouraged the Shiites to over throw Sadam, only to turn our backs on them by not supplying arms while they were slaughtered by Sadam. Today in we pay the price for what we Bush I did in Iraq, no Shiite support, but support for Iran. Today we encourage Lebanon to throw out Syria, only to turn our backs on them while Israel bombs them into the Stone Age. Tomorrow we will pay the price for what Bush II is doing today.

Golda Mier...

as I recall, also uttered those words, 'NEVER AGAIN'.

The Rev

M. Stewart,

I always respect what you have to say, and will take your comments under advisement, but make no mistake, I really am not making those comparisons simply for effect, I really do see a lot of simililarities.

But your cogent, wise and sagacious counsel will be accepted and adhered to. I will tone down my remarks, and find another way to encourage readers to keep a tight reign on our government officials and government policy.

Thanks,

The single most important word Bill used is "image", which has both a physical sense--image as in TV broadcast, photographs, descriptions of damage, etc--and a cognitive sense--image as perception or belief. Hezbollah is very adroitly and overtly using images of the first variety to create images of the second variety. When you see one broadcast or photo of civilian casualties, the mind tends to transfer that one set of images onto a much broader landscape--the one demolished apartment building and its weeping families now represent an unseen but much larger series of such events...mustn't they? Whether or not that is true--and most likely it is not--is irrelevent if many/most people believe it. Thus I'd suggest that another metric of success as tallied by Hezbollah is the number of their/Lebanese civilian casualties the Israelis cause, or can be accused of causing. It relates to the wonderful term "Lawfare", coined by USAF Major General Charlie Dunlap, a brilliant thinker and lawyer who has argued that we are seeing adversaries using international law as a means of generating perceptions and effects to support political objectives. When Hezbollah fires rockets from inside civilian facilities and areas in order to generate Israeli responses that cause civilian casualties, the result is a form of "lawfare" and "information warfare", and the terrorists are waging it more effectively than the Israelis, and it may be the most effective weapon Hezbollah has, in the long run.

The current round of escalating bloodshed in the Middle East is nothing more than a continuation of the Vietnam War....The only difference being that the major defense industries gets to test and sell even more powerful bombs and lethal technology!

Unfortunately, the Junior Officers from the Vietnam Era...Who Vowed Never Again...are now sitting in the Pentagon as Generals and Admirals doing the very same thing they criticized their leaders for.

Lesson's Learned...NO! Selective Short Term memories...YES! What we need is more than a few courageous Generals and Admirals to speak out and submit their resignations in protest of the insane blood bath we have generated in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East. I applaud Congressman John Murtha for continuing to speak out against the insanity that continues to eminate from the Pentagon, Congress and especially the Executive Branch.

To the Rev: Much of what you have to say is valid and needs to be addressed; However, your continued comparison of President Bush and the Republican Leadership to Hitler and the Nazi Regime has poisened much of what you are posting and suggesting.

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The Rev & Gardner are spewing hatred?

With regard to those who have elected to accuse others of spewing hate as opposed to addressing the issues, it is a time-held tradition that when one has nothing to say, the mud-slinging and name calling begins. If pointing out the obvious is the equivalent of spewing hate then we are all in trouble, and I am guilty; and you must be a Republican, for the latter group has proven to be most adept at labeling and steamrolling other American citizens who do not share their point of view or agree with their talking points. It would be better, in my opinion, if we could all simply enter into, civil, discourse and be open enough to consider a difference of opinion.

Having said that, it is still my opinion that we must continue to question and hold Israel and our own government accountable, just as we hold other nations accountable; neither nation is above the law.

We cannot have one standard for every other nation of the world, and a different standard for the United States and Israel. Further, we cannot criticize other nations for arming Hamas and Hezbollah, and we cannot tell certain nations that they cannot have WMDs or occupy other countries, when the United States' arms Israel, and both the U.S.A. and Israel are armed to the teeth with WMDs.

And what two nations are currently occupying, by force, what were once two sovereign and independent nations, the U.S.A. and Israel? Neither the U.S.A. nor Israel cared for the governments in Iraq or Lebanon, so what did they do, they invaded both countries and in addition to everything else took down those governments in hopes of replacing, or purging their governments of the great unwashed. I suppose that the USA and Israel would call that democratizing their governments(-:

I believe that there should be one standard for everybody, some Americans have become too accustomed to living with American duplicity and unilateralism. If we don't speak up then we are no better than the Germans, Austrians and others who condoned Hitler's behavior or looked the other way. Had the latter become activist themselves, the Holocaust and WWII could have possibly been avoided. Today, we can help to stop what is going on in the Middle and Near East, and elsewhere around the world by doing what citizens in a Republic should do, hold their Representatives, the President and nations, and leaders of nations that we fund and protect, accountable before and when they engage in misbehavior.

My goal is to help to have peace in the world, and that can only be done by pointing out inconsistencies and all of the antecedents that lead up to armed conflict, regardless of who the players are, that are involved. What are you motives?

Someone said something on CNN last night that I felt was very cogent

He opined that the entity that started the current conflict in the Middle-East between Israel and Hezbollah, may not have been Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran or Syria; instead he suggested that Israel may have started it.

The Speaker, I didn't get his name, said that Hezbollah has been doing what it has been doing all the time, and that they were actually shocked that Israel suddenly acted in the manner which it did by invading Lebanon?

In other words, according to the Hezbollah leaders, both sides have been engaging in this behavior for years, and all of the sudden Israel attacks Lebanon. He was presenting food for thought, but I am sure that Israeli pundits would reduce his supposition to the spewing of hate against Israel!

What really matters is the final analysis, is not who started it, rather it is more important to figure out how to stop this madness once and for all.

The Rev

The Rev & Gardner are spewing hatred?

With regard to those who have elected to accuse others of spewing hate as opposed to addressing the issues, it is a time-held tradition that when one has nothing to say, the mud-slinging and name calling begins. If pointing out the obvious is the equivalent of spewing hate then we are all in trouble, and I am guilty; and you must be a Republican, for the latter group has proven to be most adept at labeling and steamrolling other American citizens who do not share their point of view or agree with their talking points. It would be better, in my opinion, if we could all simply enter into, civil, discourse and be open enough to consider a difference of opinion.

Having said that, it is still my opinion that we must continue to question and hold Israel and our own government accountable, just as we hold other nations accountable; neither nation is above the law.

We cannot have one standard for every other nation of the world, and a different standard for the United States and Israel. Further, we cannot criticize other nations for arming Hamas and Hezbollah, and we cannot tell certain nations that they cannot have WMDs or occupy other countries, when the United States' arms Israel, and both the U.S.A. and Israel are armed to the teeth with WMDs.

And what two nations are currently occupying, by force, what were once two sovereign and independent nations, the U.S.A. and Israel? Neither the U.S.A. nor Israel cared for the governments in Iraq or Lebanon, so what did they do, they invaded both countries and in addition to everything else took down those governments in hopes of replacing, or purging their governments of the great unwashed. I suppose that the USA and Israel would call that democratizing their governments(-:

I believe that there should be one standard for everybody, some Americans have become too accustomed to living with American duplicity and unilateralism. If we don't speak up then we are no better than the Germans, Austrians and others who condoned Hitler's behavior or looked the other way. Had the latter become activist themselves, the Holocaust and WWII could have possibly been avoided. Today, we can help to stop what is going on in the Middle and Near East, and elsewhere around the world by doing what citizens in a Republic should do, hold their Representatives, the President and nations, and leaders of nations that we fund and protect, accountable before and when they engage in misbehavior.

My goal is to help to have peace in the world, and that can only be done by pointing out inconsistencies and all of the antecedents that lead up to armed conflict, regardless of who the players are, that are involved. What are you motives?

Someone said something on CNN last night that I felt was very cogent

He opined that the entity that started the current conflict in the Middle-East between Israel and Hezbollah, may not have been Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran or Syria; instead he suggested that Israel may have started it.

The Speaker, I didn't get his name, said that Hezbollah has been doing what it has been doing all the time, and that they were actually shocked that Israel suddenly acted in the manner which it did by invading Lebanon?

In other words, according to the Hezbollah leaders, both sides have been engaging in this behavior for years, and all of the sudden Israel attacks Lebanon. He was presenting food for thought, but I am sure that Israeli pundits would reduce his supposition to the spewing of hate against Israel!

What really matters is the final analysis, is not who started it, rather it is more important to figure out how to stop this madness once and for all.

The Rev

I would like to publically point out that the United States has used terrorism continuously, as a tool, to destablize other governments to make sure things happened their way, without having to admit that....it isn't like the citizens of the United States would agree with it...it's mainly for certain family business interests....like this:

For instance, today, look at Chile South America, there, you will find George H.W. Bush sitting on a board of directors of a mulitnational company with MINING interests in Chile, that is about to remove a glacier that is an impediment to the company's board that he sits on. This glacier has for centuries provided water for to the Chilean farmers in that region....they will lose their farms and lifestyles without a reliable water source....once this glacier is blasted into oblivion in order to mine beneath it...does he care? nope.

This is the point, can you say, CARICATURE of a caring president? can you say president of Chile assassinated in the streets of Washington DC while George H.W. Bush was CIA DIRECTOR? serendipity or as the church lady would say, SATAN?

you be the judge.

Someone wrote "Gardner you, like the Rev, preach nothing but hatred and use rabbis and AIPAC as your scapegoat"

Israel and America are doing a pretty good job at spreading hatred against themselves.

America supplies bombs.

Israel drops them on civilian apartment buildings (and refugee convoys, ambulances, aid convoys, hospitals, UN workers, food supply stores, medical aid convoys, milk factories etc)

The shockwaves from the bombs don't stop when they blow the limbs off babies.

They carry on via the internet and world media right across the globe.

American-Israeli atrocities against civilains come right into my house every newshour.

American-Israeli atrocities against children and civilains are what is causing world-wide hatred against Israel and America.

Caesar wrote "As Bolton correctly asks, "How does on negotiate with terrorists?" The clear answer is to bomb them into oblivion."

Clearly yourself, Bolton, Israel and the US all advocate for a tactic that has historically, repeatedly, failed.

So why use a strategy that always fails? Answer - supreme arogance - with the naive idea that bombing a people will make them less likely to want to hit back.

Negiotiation with the IRA, ANC, PLO, Tamil Tigers etc, has always.....always.... yelded far more results than attack ever did.

Accusations that Israel or the US has become the Nazi regime is nothing more than false and a propagandist call to preach hatred toward the jews. Hitler targeted a specific religion. Israel has clearly made its intentions of targetting Hezbollah, who as Jan Egleand stated, use nothing more than cowardly acts of hiding among women and children and then act proud about it.

Gardner you, like the Rev, preach nothing but hatred and use rabbis and AIPAC as your scapegoat.

couldn't agree more with the Rev--i was Jewish but resigned a number of years ago in disgust at the corruption of what once was one of the worlds great religions, with ethical and moral values, into a narrow israelist nationalism with most rabbis nothing more than israel bond salesmen.
thanks to the AIPAC apparat's infiltration of our administration and its Christian
fundamentalist cohorts, the neocon zionists
(Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith et al ad nauseam),have gotten American troops into the middle east so as to help israel obtain and hold its "liebensraum".
the U.S. has not only lost the (Afghan/Iraq) war it started so cavalierly and unthinkingly and both nations are on the deserved decline and perpetual attack.
Lebanon reminds me that during WWII, when resistance fighters captured/killed German soldiers, an entire village ould be slain in retaliation.
how utterly ironic that jews should have ecome the new nazis

Namron,

Where are you my friend? Did you read Svetlana Krikoun's comments.

This is what I was trying to explain before, that what Israel and the United States' once criticized and fought against, with regard to Hitler and the III Reich, they have become.

Many of the tactics that are being employed by employed by Israel and the United States are no different than the practices and tactics of Adolf himself.

Again, he must feel vindicated!

I am amazed when oppressed people, once free, behave no differently than their former oppressors. King George Bush of America for example, is putting the late King George of England to shame.

The latter felt that the American colonists were terrorists, traitors and insurrectionist. Now where have I heard that lately?

Oh and by the way, I have seen the same in my own community!

Hans-Joerg Marby

Israeli sunbathers?

I was watching CNN last night where they showed fearful Israeli's sunbathing on the beaches of Israel. They interviewed many of them; it did not appear that they were worrying a whole lot about their, 'right to exist' from either my or the journalist's point of view.

Sadly, it did not appear that they cared a whole lot about the innocent people who were slaughtered, or forced to evaucate in Lebanon.

I hope you read Svelta's poignant comments that came later in this blog. Perhaps his comments will have some impact on you. Hamas and Hezbollah had no right to attack your people. And you folks have no right to attack the innocent people of Lebanon, and to destroy their lives, homes and churches.

Or, didn't you know that the innocent Lebanese also have a right to exist? Well, factually none of us have a Right to Exist; it is an apparent gift of God, or a consequence of the 'The Big Bang' and natural selection.

In my book, wrong is wrong no matter who does it! Israel is armed to the teeth, not only with conventional weapon systems and state-of-the art fighters; Israel also has a cache of WMDs, more than all of the other nations in the middle-east combined. And if that isn't enough, you have big brother, the U.S.A.!

I don't want anything to happen to Israel. I just wish that Israel, along with the leaders in my own country would be more forthcoming and honest. For people other those in the United States and Israel have a right to live without the constant meddling and interference from Israel and the United States of America as well.

You folks have a very powerful Lobby in America, however, keep in mind lobbying is one thing, and truth is another. I have been asking Americans everywhere to hold both Israel and our own leaders accountable for their malfeasance. Otherwise, we we will need to withdraw our financial and military support from Israel, and elect new and balanced leaders in our own country.

By the way, I was amazed a couple of decades by the behavior of Israel when practically every other nation of the world boycotted the racist white regime in South Africa given its Apartheid system, and its holding of luminaries in prison like Nelson Mandela and others in the ANC in prison.

According to the reports that I read, Israel continued to supply the government with weapons to use against the black citizens and freedom fighters in South Africa, while Israel continued to accept America's financial support, including my tax dollars.

It is amazing to me that Israeli's are always crying foul and asking for sympathy and understanding from everyone else! We finance Israel, and that gives us the right to hold Israel accountable for what it does with the resources, including the weapons that we provide.

And we will continue to question and point out Israel's inane behavior, just as we will do with anyone else, including those who lead our own nation whether people like you like it or not!

I don't understand Arkin's claim that what's going on in southern Lebanon is a successful Israeli military operation. The Israeli command has made sundry claims of military victory in the first two weeks, and has had to retract some of the major ones. The Israeli army clearly was not prepared to meet determined armed resistance on the ground, and clearly hasn't reacted all that promptly to the new and surprising environment on the ground.

As to the number of Lebanese dead, nearly all of them civilian, quoting Reuters' figures bears little relation to reporting the number of dead there are to date, even approximately.

Nobody's counting the dead, other than those found and brought to morgues, etc.

One Lebanese woman reported this week from her home in Sysdney Australia that in her drive away from the Israeli munitions to Beirut along back roads, she and her family kept passing cars parked offroad. They all had dead people in them, and nobody's out there counting.

As to Israel's political position, it has been denying food and water to Lebanese civilians who have been at the point of starvation for more than a week. It has been firing warning shots from its naval vessels against vessels of neutral nations trying to get into Lebanese ports to rescue foreign visitors to that nation. It has angered and outraged every nation that has had to evacuate its nationals this month, and doubled that outrage by this intimidation of those nation's vessels.

So far as we can see, at the recent G8 meeting in Russia and this week's non-peace meeting in Rome, every major nation other than the US and Israel wants a ceasefire, and the US secretary of state says "It's not about talking to Syria" while claiming Syria is behind the whole Hezbollah thingie. The Syrians point out that it's an oddity that people meet in Rome, some 2000 miles away from his nation, to discuss what Syria should do. Syria wasn't invited to the talks.

Did you notice that Israel stopped raining death on Beirut one day recently? It was the day Dr Condoleezza Rice came to visit. WEhy not ask her to visit southern Lebanon some day soon? Nothing else seems to work.

Neve in my life I've been ashamed that I am Jewish.

Right now yes, I am. What is even more shameful - are meetings in support of Israel.

Support what? F16-s dropping bombs on civilians? Army who didn't care to make any pass for civilian refugees first? Bombing our American citizens that happened to be unlucky to be caught in fire?

Israel likes to bring up Holocaust as an argument. But it seems that it's Lebanese who are Jews right now.

To the prime minister of Lebanon,
Sir, please end this fighting, end this agression on your beautiful country. You have no F16 but you have a nation that loves you.
Please go to the southern Lebanon border with TV crews, and your people, women and children preferentially, sit in front of the Israeli tanks, and hold your position. Please reoccupy your villages in the south, and let it known by the media, so the Israelis will know you are there. If the Israelis are asking your people to vacate a particular village, reply by telling them that they will not leave their home, that it their right, as lebanese, to live there, and go in that particular village with some of your government people, even the President, and let it know to the Israelis you are there, bring as many tv crews as you can.
It's risky, but it is the only choice you have!
I still have that image of the chinese student standing in front that tank in tiananmen square a quarter century ago! (http://www.freedomtocare.org/Tiananmen.jpg)
You can only fight Israel invasion peacefully. I am sure you will find all the volunteers you want.
Do it!
Yours Truly,

hello dimwits | Permalink

you don't have to choose a side...you don't have to support current actions.

suppose you're a project leader and you needed to establish a stable and lasting peace, and all of the people were just like the ones that you have to work with....

but it's your project, you can hire and fire anyone that you wanted to, and use the media as your personal tool...

I could effect peace within a short time and spend several years ensuring that things moved away from religious fundamentalism by removing it....but not aggressively, by education

and seperation of church and state

think of this as an engineering project. what would _you_ do to solve it, favoring neither side

or can't you do that? If you can't then you shouldn't be here.

you don't have to choose a side...you don't have to support current actions.

suppose you're a project leader and you needed to establish a stable and lasting peace, and all of the people were just like the ones that you have to work with....

but it's your project, you can hire and fire anyone that you wanted to, and use the media as your personal tool...

I could effect peace within a short time and spend several years ensuring that things moved away from religious fundamentalism by removing it....but not aggressively, by education

and seperation of church and state

think of this as an engineering project. what would _you_ do to solve it, favoring neither side

or can't you do that? If you can't then you shouldn't be here.

that it's either pro arab, or pro israel.

Why is no one simply assessing the situation as it exists, from an empirical viewpoint? What is going on?

Is there dishonesty on both sides?

LOOK!

neither side

can get what it wants,

a world where their view is the correct one....and the only one.

how many have children with this problem?

what is the difference?

none.

preferences and opinions are not

the same thing as the truth.

most participants in this discussion, favor one side over the other or one way of behaving.

neither side offers resolution, as resolution is not an event it is a _situation_ that persists.

resolution insists upon both sides being correct in their assessment and find ing a resolution that is effective in it's effect...

not a rhetorical solution to a theory.

as an engineer, you would have to compare it to feedback analysis and stable signal strength and duration as a desired outcome...no morality implied but in balancing loads...

you can't balance loads, by ignoring one...

you got to solve the whole thing as a whole thing....he said she said is babys hit

hola babies

you're crazy, if you think any of these international elites give a rats patootie about what anyone but their immediate family is experiencing....

_they_ don't have normal emotions.

how does one go about sending the National Guard into Iraq w/o combat training, after one had used it as a hideout during the Vietnam war, can you say, "I could give a s h i t, what happens to them, _they_ are not family?" Family in this case is one who can grant or pay_for a favor.

.

it's _all_ Israels' fault,

hardly....how about this for _typical_primitive_muslim_response_

"
In the message broadcast by Al-Jazeera television, Ayman al-Zawahri, second in command to Osama bin Laden, said that al-Qaida now saw "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us."
"

sounds pretty stupid and primitive considering that Israel _has_ the way to exterminate them if it wants to....

that being said, you all should probably look over at
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/2006/07/26/post_2/comments.html

where they are talking about Dr. Rices' contribution, one _astute_ observer said the below to the question

QUESTION:Condoleezza Rice currently is engaged in diplomatic efforts in the Middle East.
What two suggestions would you give her?

: my response is below

First before suggesting anything, I would like to publically point out that the United States has used terrorism continuously, as a tool, to destablize other governments to make sure things happened their way, without having to admit that....

For instance, today, look at Chile, there, you would find George H.W. Bush sitting on a board of directors of a mulitnational company with MINING interests in Chile, that was about to remove a glacier that is an impediment to the company's board that he sits on. This glacier has for centuries provided water for to the Chilean farmers in that region....who will lose their farms and lifestyles without a reliable water source....

This is the point, can you say, CARICATURE of a caring president? can you say presidentof Chile assassinated in the streets of Washington DC while George H.W. Bush was CIA DIRECTOR? like how possible is that without approval from george h.w. bush? Can you say, "Conflict of fricking interests," and poor huddled masses/peasants/slaves that have no fricking choice?

Another poster, ORPEA said about the persistent rumour of terrorists:

Begin ORPEA
The world is safe only when all world leaders (Small or Big):
-Unanimously honestly condemn terrorism
-Unanimously work to change the attitude of terrorists
-Unanimously find peaceful solutions to the global problems
-Take severe punitive actions on who support terrorism.

END ORPEA's comment.

I opined that:
I would have Dr. Rice, apologize for the duplicity of a government that uses terrorist activities to support it's own agendae against the United States people and the people of the world....WTC 9/11 CIA/FBI complicity, complicit congress Project For a New American Century.

I would have her turn herself in at the Department of Justice and turn witness against the current administration, and to name in detail how the 9/11 event, and current occupation are the work of this government some time in advance of these things happening was aware of them....from a distance, and is now in corroberation. Military Industrial Complex, Halliburton $9 -> $90 since the Iraq occupation inception.

I would also have her speak to women about letting themselves get _used_ to put an honest_looking/dignified, front on an operation that for want of a better name, really couldn't be named anything but a terrorist operation into afghanistan and iraq....can anyone say, "black woman," fronting for the elites, while _real_ black people loose position, and jobs to _illegal_ aliens? What was that remark about the difference between those that work in the fields vs those that work in the house thinking, "that they are better," than their brothers and sisters....so they are okay about using them for the "bosses" best interests?

I would also ask her to witness to the world that she is relieved that Israel looks like the Bully right now, because she's tired of taking flak about Iraq. It's easier to support someone elses' violence because you can feign ignorance or indifference.

==They hate Israel now, they will continue to hate Israel, as long as Israel exists.... Israel's pragmatic solution is that Israel needs to instill more fear in them==

And they will hate Israel after the bombs as well. The problem is that instiling fear doesn't work anymore, as wars to annihilate the enemy that kills a few of your people are no longer viable. If Israel can respond to killing of a several soldiers with a campaign to kill all Lebanies shiites than, yes, it can change the balance of power. If it is unwilling to protect its way of life with genocide of the entire population, then no, it will not instill fear.

==As Bolton correctly asks, "How does on negotiate with terrorists?"==

Like Israel has negotiated with another terrorist organization, PLO. Even today, Israeli politicians meet with Abbas, a member of the PLO, a (formerly?) terrorist organization.

==The clear answer is to bomb them into oblivion.==

You can't. Just like we can't bomb them into oblivion in Iraq. Not a realistic option. Reason? Threat not existential.

They hate Israel now, they will continue to hate Israel, as long as Israel exists. Waht else is new. Why does it matter? It is unimaginitive to give "free" advice to Israel. Israel's pragmatic solution is that Israel needs to instill more fear in them. As Bolton correctly asks, "How does on negotiate with terrorists?" The clear answer is to bomb them into oblivion.

==Israel is fighting for its existence==

That is simply not true. Israel has by far the strongest military in the region and is a regional superpower. It is also a nuclear armed state with a complete ability to annihilate its enemies in about an hour.

Currently there are no real existential threats to Israel's existence in the region. The closest serious potential threat is perhaps Pakistan and/or Turkey, but both are American allies and are not in an adversarial posture vis a vis Israel, quite the opposite.

The continuing perpetuation of the "Israel is fighting for its existence" myth is a result of concerted propaganda, by both Israel and its allies in the United States and Europe.

Israel's position today is probably strongest that it has been since its birth. Its continuing over-reaction to Arab provocation is a result of the misanderstanding of the efficacy of military power to achieve political goals. It ends up exposing weakness, instead of demonstrating strength. It is essentially the same mistake we made by attacking Iraq and angling to attack Iran. Useless excersises in old and discredited methods.

To "The Rev" (Follow Bush´s Advice)

Israel is fighting for its existence against criminals who use civilians as a cover. Your recitation is wrong and your advice is usless!

The Right to Exist!

Both America and Israel are on the same mission. According to both nations they have been appointed by God to survive and to clean up the mess in the world. Both nations were apparently informed that there will be a few casualties along the way, but they were not to bother about that; each nations was simply to continue the march!

The Christian church in America normally stands one-hundred percent behind each of these partners-in-crime nations. However, lately there has been a tiny crack in some of the foundation, for some Americans are beginning to stand up and take note of what is really happening around the world, when these two nations are involved.

Ironically, the citizens of the U.S.A., who appear to be less religious, seem to have a more balanced and sober view of what has been going on, with respect to religious zealotry and apocalyptic motivations.

Our two nations will not be the first to believe that God, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh... were with them.

Just ask the citizens of those former empires like the Egyptians, Assyrians, Medes, Persians, Medo-Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and our modern empires...who did I miss?

Ask them what happened when they set out on their crusades around the world? Human failings have been with us for eons and eons it would appear. A couple of nations do not have the right to decide, like Hitler once did, to take it upon themselves to purge the world given their perceptions of what nations deserve to and what nations and people do not deserve to exist!

Unlike previous conflicts, I believe the American media is covering the carnage among civilians on both sides of this conflict. Everyone likes to think their particular country is on the side of the angels, but there are no angels in war. I would like to think that America always acts according to international law, but I remember Mylai, Abu Graib, and Guantanamo Bay. I would also like to think my Southern ancestors were always perfect, but some of them made slaves out of Afro-Americans. As a young child. I saw the casual cruelty of segregation.
Over the years, it has become increasingly clear that no country or people that are totally virtuous.
Israel has the massacres of Deir Yassin, Qibya, Sabra and Shatila in its history.
Many Middle Eastern countries have mass graves recording an assortment of horrors.
Virtue is an individual achivement, and it the job of those individuals who aspire to virtue face these facts in their own countries and work to eliminate these horrors.

forget civilian casualties, my question is why did Bush and his corrupt cronies give the go ahead to the Israelis to bomb UN peacekeepers who were obviously exactly that (heck, they're marked ON THE MAPS!)?

I used to be a peacekeeper. I'm disgusted by our corrupt Bushie government.

William

Despite hardening Hezbollah resistance I continue to feel that Israel is fighting a calculated and limited campaign.

Isreal's prospects may not be as bleak as it seems if its Lebanon campaign, in fact, has key external objectives.

Perhaps stating the obvious I believe Israel is most concerned about Hezbollah's rockets and any remaining missiles.

I don't think the Israelis are so foolish as to expect that airpower could totally subdue a guerilla force. Neither side is inexperienced.

A more credible Israeli strategy may be this: if Israel is eliminating (largely by airstrikes) a substantial proportion of the existing rockets this will eventually force Hezbollah to seek further supplies - probably through Syria and perhaps manufactured in Iran.

So by forcing Iran and Syria to increase their supply efforts Israel can more easily justify future military action against these countries.

If Isreal can interdict and slow the rocket resupply efforts this could irritate the Syrians into some sort of "useful offensive act" against Israel.

For more see my site below.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

.

From a geopolitical standpoint, Israel's invasion of Lebanon was worse than evil, worse than callous in its disregard for human life, and worse than short-sighted in considering Israel's potential loss of sympathy (what they have left) in the eyes of the world. It was worse than all this because it was a poorly planned and poorly executed "hail Mary" when no "hail Mary" was needed.

Geo. Bush & Rumsfeld's playbook isn't one anyone with sense should be borrowing from.

Oh, and the wanton disregard for Lebanese civilian's and the national infrastructure is also nothing short of criminal.

Perhaps too, in the course of damaging the American economy, Al Qaeda sought to minimize American casualties by felling the WTC at 9:00 AM instead of 2:00 PM. That reaction you're feeling as an American in reading that last sentence? That's how much solace a formerly moderate Lebanese takes in Israel's careful bombing. Thinking about how you might feel in another person's circumstances? That's called empathy.

Both America and Israel need some advice...!

Years ago, I was standing on the corner of Beale Street, near the Embarcadero in San Francisco, when a disgruntled, taller than me, merchant mariner approached me.

He asked in a patois that I recommended at the time, can you tell me how to get to the PeaGreen Hotel on SeaView Street. Scam, I thought, and then I noticed a tear in his eye, as he stood there wrapped in a blue pea jacket. This stranger had obviously having just disembarked from the ship, just a few blocks away, as he stood there looking anxiously in one direction. and then the other. I inquired, sir, what is the problem, for I have neither heard of a PeaGreen Hotel nor a SeaView Street in San Francisco, or anywhere for that matter in the Bay Area.

By that time, a crowd had gathered, they were trying to figure out what happened to this obviously very unhappy and distraught merchant mariner. The disgruntled man then added that when he was coming over on the boat, he met a woman on board. The woman promised him a rendezvous at the PeaGreen hotel, once the ship landed at San Francisco. He was to meet her at the hotel after he had completed his shore duties.

It seems that she had him to pay her in advance, and now he was coming to collect the booty or bounty, take your pick. We all began to smile and at the same time feel sorry for him, when suddenly, one of the by-standers in the crowd said, Sir, you do not need directions, you need some advice.

That was in 1973, when fifty bucks was a lot of money, particularly for a merchant mariner. What has been the cost in lives, times and money that this Administration has already spent, on credit, in hopes of someday reaping a momentary reward? In the words of the bystander in the crowd which could apply to our Administration in Washington and Israel, these people do not need directions, these people need some advice.

They are already headed in the wrong direction and they are taking us right along with them.

I see little hope of Israel or America having peace, in the future, with the Arabs, Persians, Chinese or North Koreans, not to mention some of our historical allies!

The X-Rated Rev

P.S. America does not need a Draft System, we have the Israeli Division!

Follow Bush's Advice!

It is time for the Lebanese to follow the advice of the America President and many citizens in America.

Mr. President has said repeatedly, that anytime a nation, he meant Israel, is being attacked, they have the right to defend themselves.

Next Mr. Bush and some of the American people have said about Hamas and Hezbollah, with regard to Israel, 'they started it so Israel has the right to fight back'.

Well Lebanese people, if you listen to Mr. Bush and some Americans, you as a sovereign nation has been attacked, by Israel. They started it, i.e., Israel.
So you cannot just stand by and allow your citizens and the infrastructure of your land (and the Cedars) to be destroyed by an aggressive terrorist organization.

Fight back, our President supports you!

The Rev

Israel is a captive of the same tired, 20th century war philosophy that got us mired down in Iraq. They went after an enemy that is 21st century in nature with an old 1940s philosophy they inherited from the Americans: that the only way to defeat their terrorist enemy was in the same way that the Allies defeated the Nazi menace in WWII.

Bush and the neocons are still insisting on this discredited notion in Iraq, hoping that ultimately the enemy will be sufficiently impressed with all of the "gee whiz" American firepower that they will eventually lay down their arms and sue for peace. None of this "toatl victory" philosophy works in the new environment of decentralized warfare carried oput by nebulous enemies who wear no uniforms and have no particular national allegiances.

Like the Americans, the Israelis run the risk of becoming ensnared in an unending war that kills off innocent populations but has little effect on the real enemy.

Isreal has lost its groove. The Isreal of old would have dazzled with its end-game in battle-innovative and precise. Today one sees poor planning and stategy--sloppy,like the way the USA is waging its war with Iraq.