Ms. Rice is right!!! Israel needs more time to do what they do best!
http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

As a military officer with 20+ years of service, some of the view point expressed don't reflect an understanding of the law of armed conflict (LOAC):

- Military Necessity: Requires combat forces to engage in only those acts necessary to accomplish a legitimate military objective. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In applying military necessity to targeting, the rule generally means target those facilities, equipment, and forces which, if destroyed, would lead as quickly as possible to the enemy's partial or complete submission.
- Distinction: Means discriminating between lawful combatant targets and noncombatant targets such as civilians, civilian property, POWs, and wounded personnel who are out of combat. The central idea of distinction is to only engage valid military targets. An indiscriminate attack is one that strikes military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction. Distinction requires defenders to separate military objects from civilian objects to the maximum extent feasible.
- Proportionality: Prohibits the use of any kind or degree of force that exceeds that needed to accomplish the military objective. Proportionality compares the military advantage gained to the harm inflicted while gaining this advantage. Proportionality requires a balancing test between the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated by attacking a legitimate military target and the expected incidental civilian injury or damage. Under this balancing test, excessive incidental losses are prohibited. Proportionality seeks to prevent an attack in situations where civilian casualties would clearly outweigh military gains. This principle encourages combat forces to minimize collateral damage--the incidental, unintended destruction that occurs as a result of a lawful attack against a legitimate military target.

Its important to understand their isn't any requirement for proportionality when it comes to attacking the enemy. You attack them as hard as possible, until they surrender, at which point other protections apply to them as prisoners. While Israel is being criticized for violating the concept of proportionality, Hezbollah is clearly violating the concept of distinction.

As a military officer with 20+ years of service, some of the view points expressed don't reflect an understanding of the law of armed conflict (LOAC):

- Military Necessity: Requires combat forces to engage in only those acts necessary to accomplish a legitimate military objective. Attacks shall be limited to military objectives. In applying military necessity to targeting, the rule generally means target those facilities, equipment, and forces which, if destroyed, would lead as quickly as possible to the enemy's partial or complete submission.
- Distinction: Means discriminating between lawful combatant targets and noncombatant targets such as civilians, civilian property, POWs, and wounded personnel who are out of combat. The central idea of distinction is to only engage valid military targets. An indiscriminate attack is one that strikes military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction. Distinction requires defenders to separate military objects from civilian objects to the maximum extent feasible.
- Proportionality: Prohibits the use of any kind or degree of force that exceeds that needed to accomplish the military objective. Proportionality compares the military advantage gained to the harm inflicted while gaining this advantage. Proportionality requires a balancing test between the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated by attacking a legitimate military target and the expected incidental civilian injury or damage. Under this balancing test, excessive incidental losses are prohibited. Proportionality seeks to prevent an attack in situations where civilian casualties would clearly outweigh military gains. This principle encourages combat forces to minimize collateral damage--the incidental, unintended destruction that occurs as a result of a lawful attack against a legitimate military target.

Its important to understand their isn't any requirement for proportionality when it comes to attacking the enemy. You can attack them as hard as possible, until they are incapacitated or surrender, at which point other protections apply to them as prisoners. While Israel is being criticized for violating the concept of proportionality, Hezbollah is clearly violating the concept of distinction.

Tom Canick wrote:
"And, no, please don't cite the years of anti-Israeli terrorism perpetrated. I know it is a fact, but Israel has always managed to inflict many more casualties on the Arabs than they themselves have endured."

Why is this bad? Israel was attacked. Israel left Gaza and was then attacked from Gaza. Israel was attacked by the PLO is South Lebanon, then kicked the PLO out and occupied the region, then left South Lebanon with a UN resolution that Lebanon and Hezbollah ignored while Israel met its obligations undeer the resolution. And was now attacked again from South Lebanon. And you say the Israelis fight back too hard! How much would you allow your country to take before you said take the gloves off? I'm not justifying all that Israel has done, just amazed that some people look at this conflict like its a game of chess where one side should play nice while the other is ignored as it hides behind civilians and lobs rockets into populated Israeli cities. All so the war seems fair.

Many have said the Israelis struck Lebanon because two Israeli solders were kidnapped. That's only a part of the story. Here's what actually happened based on a Yahoo news report: "Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel on July 12th and captured two Israeli soldiers. The Israeli army said three soldiers were killed in the initial raid, and four others were killed when their tank hit a land mine in southern Lebanon. An eighth soldier was killed as an Israeli force tried to get to the tank, which was part of a ground invasion aimed at rescuing the captured soldiers. Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said he will not release the captives except as part of a prisoner swap. 'No military operation will return them,' he told a news conference in Beirut. 'The prisoners will not be returned except through indirect negotiations and a trade.' "

Now, if that had happened by say Mexico raiding southern California, what would you do? Negotiate? Now assume it has happened before, over and over again and you know those who did the kidnapping have 13,000 rockets ready to attack you with and were sworn to destroy America. What would you advise the US to do? My guess is every red blooded American would be at the border signing up to go into Mexico.

The one-sidedness of this operation, it's obvious pre-planned nature, the US government's knowledge and complicity, and the enourmous toll that it is taking on the Lebanese people are enough to make me ill and angry. How many [middle/upper economic class] civilians in our own country would be willing to endure destruction of their families and property to support the Bush Administration's policies and actions?

It's about time that the Israelis suffered some casualties (the headlines this morning say 9 to 12 of their soldiers are dead in a recent operation). I can only hope that the civilian people of Israel suffer enough to give them a reason to reflect on their government's works and decide if this is the path they want.

And, no, please don't cite the years of anti-Israeli terrorism perpetrated. I know it is a fact, but Israel has always managed to inflict many more casualties on the Arabs than they themselves have endured.

Tucker Carlson Discomfited?

Did anyone hear Tucker, an apologist and advocate for Israel, interviewing the Israeli Ambassador last night?

Tucker prefaced his comments by assuring the Ambassador that he (not a neutral journalist) fully understood what Israel was doing and why. However, he went on to query the Ambassador about Israel's assault on innocent Lebanese citizens who were following Israel's instruction to evacuate earlier in the week, from the South.

A week ago, Israel dropped leaflets, as we all know, instructing the Lebanese people to evacuate from the South, because the IAF was going to begin a bombing campaign in the South. According to Tucker, when the innocent refugees began to evacuate, Israel's air force began killing them, destroying bridges and the infrastructure that the evacuees were using to escape to the north.

Initially the Ambassador tried to dance around the question. Then Tucker countered that United States journalists witnessed the attacks themselves. Then, Mr. Ambassador began the dance that all of us have become so accustomed to from politicians.

Then I woke up early this morning to learn that 3 or 4 United Nations Observers were apparently killed by the IAF.

It would seem to me that Israel is defending against, in a similar manner that the Menendez Boys were defending themselves against abuse by arming themselves and shooting their parents who were watching television.

What do the apologists on this blog have to say now about Israel, simply defending itself? For it would appear that even Tucker, of the former burning cross show, Crossfire, was even a bit discomfited.

I visited Washington and stopped in at the Crossfire Show a year or so ago at George Washington University. (By the way, a speaker on Chis Tucker's show informed him yesterday that George Washington was actually a terrorist). Tucker was a panelist that day, along with Paul Begala and their guests. I sat on the front row, directly in front of Begala and the Crossfire banner.

While we were waiting for the show to begin, I observed and was struck by the burning cross on the banner. I thought, my God, that is the symbol of the Ku Klux Klan, i.e., a burning cross, a fitting symbol for Novak anyway. I emailed the producers and inquired about the cross symbol, however, they never responded.

Now, unfortunately, whenever I see Tucker, I think of the Klan. He is actually thinner in person, than he appears to be on TV(-:.

Perhaps some of the Israel supporters will admit now that there is more going on than the Defense of Israel. Kofi Annan seems to think so!

Pegasus can fly so I'm told.

Jump off on 26 and just be bold.

OLAB 25 ADS

Probably not a good idea to start quoting UN resolutions in defense of Israel, considering theirs a very long list of them that they are currently violating.

Interesting that Israel is punnishing the flegeling Government of Lebanon for not disarming Hezbullah in just over a year......
when the full force of the IDF totally failed themselves, and they had TWENTY years.

The terrorists are actually Great cowards.

r wrote:
"By the way, Israel is violating the sacred Security Resolution 1559 with its entry into Lebanon. They kept violating it of course before when they sent their planes over it regularly to violate its airspace. I see there is a lot of criticism of that too."

Just so we all know what Resolution 1559 is, here is a link to the resolution:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sc8181.doc.htm

Pay careful attention to items 3 and 4 and ask yourself which parts of the resolution Israel kept and which parts Hezbollah did not keep.

1. Reaffirms its call for the strict respect of the sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity, and political independence of Lebanon under the sole and exclusive authority of the Government of Lebanon throughout Lebanon;
"2. Calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon;
"3. Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias;
"4. Supports the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory;
"5. Declares its support for a free and fair electoral process in Lebanon's upcoming presidential election conducted according to Lebanese constitutional rules devised without foreign interference or influence;
"6. Calls upon all parties concerned to cooperate fully and urgently with the Security Council for the full implementation of this and all relevant resolutions concerning the restoration of the territorial integrity, full sovereignty, and political independence of Lebanon;
"7. Requests that the Secretary-General report to the Security Council within thirty days on the implementation by the parties of this resolution and decides to remain actively seized of this matter."

Excellent headline and it begs the question; more time to do what? To destroy Lebanon and kill its people, that's what. I see the prime minister is in Rome now, and Hariri Jr is in Kuwait. Some "patriots" they are. Collaborators more like. Prime Minister Fuad should have resigned long ago. I guess he likes Bush's plan for the country to die but the government to survive. They're just like Zoran Djindjic in Serbia who was a guest of fellow Stanko Subotic (mafia) ally Milo Djukanovic during the bombing. Well, we know what happened to him.

By the way, Israel is violating the sacred Security Resolution 1559 with its entry into Lebanon. They kept violating it of course before when they sent their planes over it regularly to violate its airspace. I see there is a lot of criticism of that too.

This talk of buffer zones and the need to keep Israel out of rocket range as absolutely essential is to play into Israel's Doctrine of Absolute Security, that says that its neighbours should live under the shadow of its bombs with no restraining factor on its activities. Israel is the one that needs to be deterred.

Also, I notice that the original reports of the so-called abduction of the Israeli soldiers reported that they were captured inside Lebanon during an Israeli raid. The story was changed when the IDF told the media to do so. "By deception we make war", the Mossad says, and it's easy as the Israelis know that the media operates by the principle that whatever Israel says must be true.

Israel and hezbollah fought a long war from 1982. Hezbollah beat ISrael army in May 2000. Israel was forced to withdraw from Lebanon. Hezbollah also secured a prisoner exchange swaping one Israeli man for 400 detainees. Now Hezbollah are most likely to win again. Score will be 3-0. Isreal will be humiliated once for the third time. Only way out is to make peace negotiations before Israel suffers a crushing defeat in Lebanon.

The best thing about Israel's strategic blunder?

People are waking up.

Yariv/Brian,

Give the rest of us limited, disestablishment beings, a little credit for being in the world for more than a day or two; perhaps there is more to the story that meets the eye than the folksy little tale that you, Israel and the President provided.

I have taken up enough space today, so I will let someone else take you on if they care to, however, I do not believe in America's vision, shared by Israel, of 'Manifest Destiny/Categorical Determinism' for the rest of the world. It reminds me too much of the 'Crusades', i.e., convert or die. Of course Mr. Bush has already admitted that, initially, he was on 'a crusade', didn't he? And as goes Batman (The U.S.A.), so goes Robin (Israel)

Other people in other nations have the right to self-determination, just as the American colonists desired when they rejected the English monarchy and established their own fledgling Republic in North America. If a group of people prefer a dictatorship, socialism, democratic-socialism, a monarchy, a theocracy or even the c-word, communism as their choice of government that should be their prerogative.

And just because a nation claims to be democratic, does not give that the nation the right to assume that it has the best form of governance, or to impose its form of government on other sovereign people, and nations of the world; we call that hegemony..

Of course you probably feel that people in other nations are also limited and too dumb to know any better, given your apparent proclivity for Democratic Fascism, that is, the USA and Israel imposing their will and form of government on other nations in defense of their right to autonomy. Don't forget Hamas was democratically elected! The two concepts that you have presented us with are not mutually exclusive!

And with regards to ...

It's like saying the Axis and the Allies in WWII were both motivated by the same destructive, murderous impulses and that they both terrorized each other by bombing population centers.

... I see your point, with regard to a few member states who were apart of the alliances that you mentioned. Even today, we witness the spirit of Hitler and the use of his tactics by some in current leadership, here and abroad!

The Rev

It's strange how people compare Israel, a democratic country whose intention is no other than to protect its citizens, and Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that has murdered many Americans and is funded by an Islamist dictator who dismisses the Holocaust and says that Israel should be wiped off the map.

It's like saying the Axis and the Allies in WWII were both motivated by the same destructive, murderous impuses and that they both terrorized each other by bombing population centers.

Why are people's reasoning abilities so limited?

It's strange how people compare Israel, a democratic country whose intention is no other than to protect its citizens, and Hezbollah, a terrorist organization that has murdered many Americans and is funded by an Islamist dictator who dismisses the Holocaust and says that Israel should be wiped off the map.

It's like saying the Axis and the Allies in WWII were both motivated by the same destructive, murderous impuses and that they both terrorized each other by bombing population centers.

Why are people's reasoning abilities so limited?

Ladys Gentleman,
Would it not be more productive if we tried even at this level to construct a possible longterm solution to this problem that would seem logicala and likely to work?
Volunteers?

Frankly, we don't have enough information to make an intelligent estimate of the size of Hizbollah's forces. The attacking force needs a three to one advantage over the defending force. Six to eight thousand troops may or may not be enough.
I will also point out that we had total air supremacy in Vietnam, but, for many reasons, lost anyway. Certainly, air support is important, but combined operations provide the best results.

Unless there is a just solution to the illegal US supported Israeli occupation, there will be no peace in this region. This keeps the pot boiling for the entire region. So, given that this will not happen, what will happen is that in 30-50 years Israel, by demographic default will become a secular democratic state for all its people. This will not be perfect and until then, if the region does not become a complete lifeless war zone, it will continue to be a bloody mess. And not withstanding the rhetoric, the only people actively working to wipe out a people are the Israelis in the West bank and Gaza. In general this has always been the case. Almost all claims to the contrary are racist/tribalist rantings of people who have only the worst regard and little understanding for their neighbors. Which is just about right for a settler colonial state like Israel. Oh, and by the way, I'm a jewish american.

DH,

I hope you are wrong about the New World Order for according to the Christian Bible, that is what God has in mind!

Japan,

Duuuude, Japan is what it is today because the United States of America provided Japan with aid, trade, markets, credits and forgive me Barry Bonds, baseball.

Why won't the U.S.A. do the same thing for the Arabs and Persians, minus the bombs of course. Or are you saying that bombs are the prequisite, to America stepping in to help?

Ask yourself, why did the U.S.A. step in to help a nation that attacked it on that day that 'that will live in infamy', and help it to become the second largest economy in the world?

Does something smell fishy, or did the powers that be at the time have some insight that our inchoate leadership of today, simply does not possess?

Name dropping?

Seeing how my old colleague, Dr. Rice, is so enamored with the idea of helping countries learn to co-exist without fighting, why don't we dispatch her to the nation's capitol where she can engage the President in discussions about withdrawing American troops from Iraq and compensating that nation with reparations? How will we pay for it you say, through tax cuts of course? Or, perhaps we can dispatch Dr. Rice to assist in organizing an international force that will go in Iraq, and restore the President and protect the people of Iraq from American totalitarianism.

LORRIN PETERSON: Israel's number one critic was the Apostle Paul of scripture. He was also aware of their intransigence 2,000 years ago, which resulted in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Before Pilate, the Jews preferred a murderer to Jesus Christ; apparently things have not changed very much. Perhaps we are witnessing the outcome of that choice, seen through their children for most Jews today, still do not accept Jesus, and now their government has set about murdering people itself. Who needs Pilate?.

The most salient thing that the Apostle Paul of scripture expressed about Israel was, 'they have abandoned the righteousness of God, and set about to establish their own righteousness'. Hamas and Hezbollah may be wrong, however, Israel is just as wrong! It is amazing to me, that like the United States of America, Israel is waiting for the Lebanese Government to thank Israel for liberating their nation from Hamas. And by the way, Israel would say similar to what the U.S.A. would say to the Iraqis, sorry about those buildings that we knocked down, and the lives that we destroyed, however, you are better off now than before we came.

It was approximately 2000 years ago when the Apostle made his observation about Israel. With respect to Israel's leadership today, which is in many ways similar to that of the United States of America; I have not seen any evidence that would suggest that Israel has changed. It would appear to me that both the U.S.A. and Israel continue to go about establishing their own righteousness, while demanding that other nations adhere to some visceral code that has been created by the U.S.A., that neither the U.S.A. nor Israel are required to adhere to themselves.

If the world, including Americans, exercises the right to evaluate the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, the world, and particularly Americans have the right to evaluate the actions of the nation that we support with offerings, tax dollars and military aid.

Personally, I would prefer that my dollars be directed towards a more meaningful pursuit in another part of the world!

Has the Washington Post ever published a column critical of Israel and mass murdering Zionists?

There can't be two sets of rules! Both sides have got to be responsible for their actions! Diplomacy is the only answer! Too many innocent people are at stake!

Hmm... You all seem to act like war is something new to this world. Remember what we're dealing with? Mankind. We'll use everything within our power to mask the fact that we're also just animals; now with big thingy's that go boom boom. Like a monkey who just learned how to fish termites out of a log with a stick. Like all other animals, we have the right to defend ourselves with lethal force. No questions asked. Do I think war is a good thing? Hell no... As long as the angry Leaders of the world can't all play in the same sandbox without one of them getting jealous at the others castle this world will not become any peaceful to live.

We can all live in harmony? It kills me sometimes when I hear of people talking about the New World Order. This is somehow supposed to resolve all the problems of the world because the USA and/or some countries are being mean to others and this makes them unhappy. (Sarcasm intended). If you think about it... For the new world order to function the entire "world order", or the implementation of it, must be fully and completely accepted by all parties involved. Isn't this most of the problem with what's going on in the middle east. Don't they have huge block-parties chanting "down with America"?

So we have no options left...? We submit and stroke their ego, give them what they want, and hope that we didn't make a tactical error? America is Saudi Arabia's biggest CUSTOMER; but that doesn't mean that the Saudi people like America. The Saudi family does though. ($$) The Saudi family probably thinks that Iran, Iraq, Syria and other random countries I probably haven't even heard of are Arab Trash States, and will tolerate the US using Iraq as a staging post to conducting operations in Iran and Syria at some later point to help us rid ourselves of a growing problem, and they get rid of the neighbors with junk on their lawn; all compensated for right through the gas pump. (The Saudi payoff). The Saudi family thinks of themselves as elitists and have more bling than Puff Daddy.

America the Tactical (sounds cheesy; I know) Militarily, our country is isolated. We own the air and sea. The only way our enemies could attack us would be to smuggle themselves in (through our wide-open borders) in relatively small numbers, or launch an ICBM at us (long range missile.) can anyone say nuke? Everyone stop complaining and let us lockdown the borders. This doesn't mean to stop immigration... That being said, we basically had two options, bring the battle to them, or sit here and build a defense against missiles; tightening ports and borders. They won't be able to fight a conventional war with us... (Remember we own the air and sea) They'll sit over there until they realize that when the time is right they'll most likely smuggle nukes into our country and bring the battle to us. Do you really think that if Iran were to build a nuke that they wouldn't just hand it over to some "terrorists" with the intent of it being used on the US/Allies and just throw their hands up and say "it was those guys"; and continue to produce these weapons? Since I don't want to die in a super-heated fireball of plasma and radiation I fully support our government in stopping these people with whatever force is necessary. War is not humanitarian. Don't you think it's ironic that the UN Peacekeepers are actually soldiers trained to kill...? Hmm...

I see trees of black, burned houses too
I see them blow up me and you
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

I see skies of red, big clouds of smoke
The bright blessed day, and all that have croaked
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

The colours of a rocket, so pretty in the sky
The look on people's faces, as they going flying by
I see pol's shakin' hands, sayin' "How do you do?"
They're really saying "Fock you too!"

I hear babies cryin', bleedin' in the streets
Bomb all you disagree with, turn them into meat
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Yes, I think to myself, what a wonderful world

Oh yeah

I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

The colours of the rainbow, so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shakin' hands, sayin' "How do you do?"
They're really saying "I love you"

I hear babies cryin', I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll ever know
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Yes, I think to myself, what a wonderful world

Oh yeah

The US ships more weapons and more powerful weapons to Israel. The weapons sent to Hezbollah are toys compared to these. We send them more aid than any other country in the world, and they have a higher per capita income than 90% of the rest of the world. These things need to be put into perspective and foreign policy needs to be more intellegent.

Two Fronts: 500 miles apart.

Lebanon is a mere 500 miles from Baghdad,
That is about a 10 hour automobile drive for some of you slower drivers. If you think about it, had the United States wanted to they could have stopped the carnage in Lebanon, and over 300 people would still be alive. The equipment and manpower was already there. And how long has it taken for Dr. Rice to engage on her token trip?

I could have made the trip in my car in about 7 hours. How come, if America cared, did it take so long for our Diplomat to get engaged? Clearly, our Administration has 'taken a position'; in deference to whatever anyone else might say, and we know whose side they are on.

I wonder who the Lebanese people view as being terrorist's, certainly not Hamas and Hezbollah alone?

Democrat:

reading your post who are you trying to say is the pebble thrower? Israel or Hizbollah? This conflict did not start recently. Don't forget that Israeli military offensives were taking place within Palestine long long before Hizbollah existed. I understand what you are trying to say. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Unfortunately there is also a reaction to the reaction's reaction. Terribly reactionary, don't you think?

There is an apparent VACUUM in the world that needs to be filled...

Clearly the planet is being ruled by a relatively small and closed power-elite. Those nations who make up this power-elite, wield incredible power, confluence and influence over the remaining nations of the world. The power-elites have also sought to divide up and bring the remaining nations of the world under their respective spheres of influence, either through peaceful means or by threat, isolation or conscription.

These alliances often transcend regional and geographical boundaries, most are held together based on some form of aid, be it political, military, or resource aid; or they are held together by force or threat.

If the elite power nations who wield influence over the rest of the nations of the world are just themselves, and if they influence the world through just dispositions and not by constraint, then we have a relatively peaceful planet.
However, when the power-elite nations, who customarily command huge economic and military resources are unjust, and they engage in unjust dispositions themselves, then soon after the planet falls into discord.

The world's number one power elite has engaged, directly or indirectly (by arming Israel) the two weaker non-aligned nations, Iraq and Lebanon.
Clearly the power-elite nations who control nations in each of their respective spheres of influence often do not see eye to eye themselves, and they are often unjust in their reckonings.

What we are witnessing in the Middle-East is symptomatic of this planetary indiscretion, wherein certain nations, who live to do nothing else but to rule over other nations, particularly those nations who refuse to align and conform to the influence of the power elites. Those nations are always vulnerable to threat, isolation and invasion, given their choice to remain independent of the customary spheres of confluence in hopes of finding their own way in the world.

What we are witnessing from Hamas and Hezbollah is frustration (perhaps not terrorism) that has turned into anger and rage, followed by their choice to engage in violent behavior. After all the U.S.A. engages quite often in violence itself!

The power elite nations should be wise enough to practice social uplift with regard to those nations who find themselves on the bottom rung of the ladder, particularly those nations who are without voice, given the present world order. It would appear that the elite nations would prefer to engage in a form of social Darwinism, and simply wait or aid in the elimination of the weaker nations.

The reaction of the U.S.A. to the opposition is simply this, SUBMIT!
The planet, in my opinion, will be served by a new power-elite (an apparent New World Order) that is both Honest and Just. That is what is truly lacking on earth!

The Rev

Their is a VACUUM in the world that needs to be filled...

Clearly the planet is being ruled by a relatively small and closed power-elite. Those nations who make up this power-elite, wield incredible power, confluence and influence over the remaining nations of the world. The power-elites have also sought to divide up and bring the remaining nations of the world under their respective spheres of influence, either through peaceful means or by threat, isolation or conscription.

These alliances often transcend regional and geographical boundaries, most are held together based on some form of aid, be it political, military, or resource aid; or they are held together by force or threat.

If the elite power nations who wield influence over the rest of the nations of the world are just themselves, and if they influence the world through just dispositions and not by constraint, then we have a relatively peaceful planet.

However, when the power-elite nations, who customarily command huge economic and military resources are unjust, and they engage in unjust dispositions themselves, then soon after the planet falls into discord. The world's number one power elite has engaged, directly or indirectly (by arming Israel) the two weaker non-aligned nations, Iraq and Lebanon.

Clearly the power-elite nations who control nations in each of their respective spheres of influence often do not see eye to eye themselves, and they are often unjust in their reckonings. What we are witnessing in the Middle-East is symptomatic of this planetary indiscretion, wherein certain nations, who live to do nothing else but to rule over other nations, particularly those nations who refuse to align and conform to the influence of the power elites. Those nations are always vulnerable to threat, isolation and invasion, given their choice to remain independent of the customary spheres of confluence in hopes of finding their own way in the world.

What we are witnessing from Hamas and Hezbollah is frustration that has turned into anger and rage, followed by their choice to engage in violent behavior.

The power elite nations should be wise enough to practice social uplift with regard to those nations who find themselves on the bottom rung of the ladder, particularly those nations who are without voice, given the present world order. It would appear that the elite nations would prefer to engage in a form of social Darwinism, and simply wait or aid in the elimination of the weaker nations.

The reaction of the U.S.A. to the opposition is simply this, SUBMIT!

The planet, in my opinion, will be served by a new power-elite (an apparent New World Order) that is both Honest and Just. That is what is truly lacking on earth!

The Rev

Who ARE THE TERORISTS?

My sense is that the people that the U.S.A and its side refers to as terrorists, are simply people just like you and me who have experienced years and years of frustration.

Their acting out, still their choice, appears to be the result of years and years of frustration, that has turned into anger, rage and violence.

Are they right? I didn't say that, but whether they are right or wrong, why is it that none of the powers-that-be, have a desire to get to the root of the problem and to do something about it?

I define terrorists also as individuals or nations who continually, threaten, destablize, spy on, sanction, quarantine, take down leaders, and invade and occupy other once sovereign nations.

And what two nations are currently doing all of the above? God help us to one day be truthful, so that we can help to be a positive, rather than a deceptive force in the world.

The Rev

I am nether anti semetic or anti muslim, but anyone who would be willing to die by intentionally killing others is pretty desperate. This Mid-East conflict cannot and will not be solved militarily. Defending your interest is a God given right to all humanity except when the motive is selfish. This conflict will continue to escalate if diplomatic intervention by the US and its European allies continue along the path presently taken. This conflict does not only effect Israel and Lebanon, it's going to impact the world as we know it. So all you war mongers out there listen up, good always prevails over evil, we should not encourage putting out a fire with gasoline.

Yes, disproportionate response worked brilliantly in Lebanon in 1982 and has been working even more brilliantly in the West Bank and Gaza since 1967.

As for Japan, talk about apples and oranges ! Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, invaded the Philippines, and ravaged China (killing millions). Incidentally, plenty of historians are of the opinion that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unnecessary: Japan was already beaten and resigned to surrender.

Exactly which cities does "Duuuude" propose we drop nuclear bombs on and what concrete benefits would really come from such an action ?

William

If, as you say, Israel is not intending to create a significant buffer zone in south Lebanon then "reliance" will be placed on an effective multinational force to create a deep buffer zone.

Multinational forces have been unable to create effective buffer zones in this area before. This time there is the added difficulty of increasingly longe range Hezbollah rockets.

The required deeper, and consequently more sparsely manned, buffer zone will be doomed to fail sooner or later.

This failure will give Israel (and the US?) the green light to attack the sources of the rockets (already "officially" designated as Syria and Iran).

So the current Isreali strategy of limited reaction, then expectation of multinational force failure, are preliminaries for the (already justified) attack on Syria and Iran.

Somewhere in this gameplan is an appeal to the WMD threat, which may be justified in Iran's case.

Pete
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com

c

"you are truly a left-wing journalist blinded by your mental disorder..don't you get it? this movement has nothing to do with U.S. policy in the middle east or Israel's actions against terrorist movements...these guys will not stop until your name is Ahmed and you're praying five times a day toward Mecca..."

This is a narrow-minded view. Of course, that does not mean this is devoid of logic. As such, there may be only two options in the end, no matter how many years (possibly centuries) instability reigns with respect to fundamental islamic view:

1) Either annihilate those with fundamentalist views, or 2), get out and ignore their geographic relm unless they pose invasion and destruction to territories outide their relm. If option 2 does not work, settle with option 1 and get on with civilization.

Ultimately, any extreme religious view that devolves global progress, even if you disagree with globilization, is futile, and will be extinguished if humanity is going to successfully reach into the future--that is to say, if we progress with caution and do not exhaust natural resources to the point of making the planet uninhabitable.

Japan had suicide bombers, too, by the hundreds, in WWII. They fought to the death at Okinawa and others, too, just like the Islamists today. Did 'engagement' and diplomacy work on them? No, it was nuclear weapons that did it. It worked so well their constitution forbids them to conduct offensive military operations, only defensive. My point? That 'disproportionate' response works. When it's disproportionate enough, societies do change their ways.

The United States' Chess Game,

Ah, Syria should continue to sit back until the United States decides that the situation in the Middle-East is more than a game of strategy. While the U.S.A. is playing the Shuttle Diplomacy Game, many lives are being lost, and clearly the U.S.A. is willing to standby as well as to participate in the carnage (Iraq) on both fronts (arming Israel), itself.

Depending on the U.S.A. a participant in the internecine wars that are taking place on both fronts to mediate, is like waiting for the proverbial fox to mediate in the affairs of the proverbial chicken coop.

How can the country, that is illegally occupying a once sovereign nation and murderings its citizens, the same nation that is allied with Israel, pretend to be an honest broker that is hoping to resolve the stalemate in the Middle-East by sending Dr. Rice.

The rest of the world and the United Nations should be forming a significant force, strong enough to drive both the United States and Israel back within their own borders.

The Rev

As long as the US continues to ignore the plight of both Muslim Arabs and the Israeli position. Better yet the US needs to act as an independant broker in order to begin a dialogue which leads to constructive give an take. This conflict was not started last week, this conflict started many years ago, by the ignorance of the west. The US must do a better job assuring these Arab states that the US will secure them as well, without genuine diplomacy there will never be peace in that region. Far to many years have went by where poor judgement has prevailed.

Unbelieveable that some people see no difference between Hezbollah and Israel (e.g., Sol H.). If I sat in your living room and threw pebble after pebble at your forehead, what would you do? pop, pop... Nothing? Ask me to leave? Sorry I'm staying. pop pop... Call the police? Sorry, I can kick their ass. pop, pop... Leave the room? I'll follow. pop, pop... What, you're going to use force on me? TERRORIST! You're the same as me, eh? Sure you are...

Someone at the office today likened this conflict to the World Cup with Hamas being the semi-finals and Hezbollah being the finals. This isn't a game folks!!! Innocents are being killed on both sides. Hopefully the world will come to its senses someday. What does fighting do but create more conflict?

I find it interesting how every time something unflattering is written of Israel, the pro-Istraeli critics depart from logical discourse to emotional outbursts and personal attacks on the writer. And we all know, when dialog degenerates to this level, it is very hard to find any kind of solution.

Not much is going to change after this latest episode of violence. What the outcome will is is already obvious from the statements of the two sides. They are both defining "victory" to be what they believe will be the outcome.

Hizbollah is defining "victory" to be survival, and indeed as long as 1.2 million Shiites are present in southern Lebanon, Hizbollah will be there too. No amount of Israeli bombing is going to make a significant dent in that.

Israel is defining "victory" to be attrition of Hizbollah's arsenal, and indeed air bombing will accomplish that. Setting up a zone is tricky. For exammple, it is not clear why European NATO countries would agree to sacrifice their soldiers' lives to provide Israel security?

So there you have it, the outcome of this "war". A few more weeks of bombing which gradually tapers off. It is unlikely to escalate as Israel does not want a repeat of 1982.

At the end of the bombing attention will return to the two Israeli captive soldiers. Then the question will be whether Israel agrees to a prisoner swap, or whether it would resist such a deal as a sign of weakness.

One other point: Calling terrorist evil and labelling that as a root cause simply gets us nowhere. If history teaches us at all it reminds us that human beings engage in such barbaric activity for a reason. No one blows up innocent human beings along with themselves unless they are committed to a cause.

The answer lies in the source of their devotion to that cause. You can only ascertain that by engaging them. This administration has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of engaging in any sort of face-to-face discussions with these people. So, step # 1 cannot even begin until after the election in 2008 and even then cannot begin unless a President is elected who has a substantially different worldview than the failed worldview of the present Chief Executive.

This is a repeat of 1982. Israel can only lose. The occupation of Lebanon gave rise to Hizballah and the re-occupation will make it stronger than ever. They will find it easier to recruit and obtain financial support. Especially among the 800,000, now homeless and destitute, Shi'ite's that have fled to Beirut and Syria.

It is far harder to get someone to strap a bomb to one's self when they have something to lose. When you have nothing and no hope, suicide bombing for money and prestige becomes a way out of the "hell" they are living in.

We've just sown the seeds for the next generation of terrorists.

That's great foreign policy, isn't it?

Look. Let's be realistic about this. When the smoke clears from all of this, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations who represent the majority of the Arab street in the Middle East aren't going to simply fold up their tents and go away.

No matter how much damage Israel does in this response, when it is over they are all going to be right back to square 1 where they were before Bush's roadmap was initiated and Sharon pulled back and built a wall arond Israel proper. More to the point, the most likely consequence will be a dramatic increase in the number of adherents to all of these terrorist orgainizations.

What is missing from all of this is a powerful honest broker with ties to both sides. Bush cannot do it. He is completely locked in to a discredited worldview that has him completely in thrall. Nothing of any constructive substance is going to happen until he is out of the picture.

The next President of the United States is going to be playing cleanup for all of his tenure in office. And maybe the next one after that as well. It is going to take a very long time to stabilize the Middle East and sweep out all of the other little piles of filth that have been swept under that Oval Office rug Bush is so obsessed with.

Maybe that is the root of his obsession: What lies hidden under that rug?

What a unilateral story! Terrorism is nothing but to achieve political goal by killing innocent. Any act of killing innocent is terrorism regardless that is done at personal, group or state level. We must reconsider our foreign policy, which is based on double standard and interst.

Discharged Israeli soldier, Yonatan Shapira, was kicked out of the military for refusing to kill civilians. While being reprimanded he challenged General Halutz (the man in charge of the current Lebanon operation), and asked him how he could justify killing innocents. According to Shapira, Halutz "told me how he sees the different value of human beings ... Israeli citizens is on top, then Israeli soldiers, then Palestinian civilians and then Palestinian fighters."

When you have extreme racists in charge (on either side) there is little hope for reason or restraint.

First, let's let some hot air out of the rhetoric. Israel has a first-rate army, a first-rate air force, and (nobody in Washington wants to talk about this) nuclear weapons. Nobody is going to "destroy Israel." For that matter, nobody is going to turn William Arkin into Ahmad al-Arkin. There's no need for paranoid fantasies.

Israel has a legitimate beef here, to be sure. But as Tom Oliphant said on the NewsHour last Friday, "The question is: what is wise and what is prudent ?"

It appears as though the Israelis are repeating the mistake they made in Lebanon in 1982. They'll pound the stuffing out of Hezbollah, but in the long run, nothing will change -- or if it does, not for the better.

The elephants in the room are Syria and Iran. The problem is that, militarily, there is no sane option for dealing with either. Given this hard reality, the wisdom of Israel's action in Lebanon comes into question. The Israelis can't really "finish the job." Perhaps they should have given the Bekkaa Valley a quick pounding and left the rest of Lebanon alone.

Allow me to post an exception to some of the racist posts above me. Poster #2 makes an interesting point about the shipping of weapons that were sure to be used at some point. The interesting thing about the whole debate is that many of the claims on both sides are not only true, but often interchangable. Israel's incredible stockpile of weaponry was sure to be used against Lebanon eventually. Had it not been the abduction of a soldier, some other justification would be used to provide basis for the invasion. We know the Israeli military planning involved was mapped out well in advance of the kidnapping. We see incredible racism, anti-semitism, put forth by extremist Muslim fundamentalists. We see incredible racism, anti-Arab zealotry, put forth by extremist Zionist fundametalists. Hizbollah says they are fighting in self-defence. Israel says they are fighting in self-defence. Hizbollah missiles have struck innocent civilians. Israel's military has struck innocent civilians. Hizbollah has its weapons provided for it by a foreign power, mainly Syria and Iran. Israel has its weapons provided for it by a foreign power, the United States. All this, and those who take one side over the other - even argue the same arguements giving identical justifications. Amazing.

Wow, what a set of responses. There is no doubt the terrorists need to be stopped. The question is the price paid by the innocents. What is too high? There is no such thing according many. Do any of you who responded to thois article so far believe that this will stop Hezbalah or Hamas? No. They will move off and wait to do it again. And Israel gets into it every time. Do you not see that they provoke you and your response is always the same? Does Israel just enjoy this? Hate, death, destruction. An endless cycle that no one seems to want to stop. Maybe someone should look up and say 'maybe this isn't working'. Because it isn't working.

Bill,

If you are correct in the number of IAF sorties, the low level of operations by the IAF is most interesting. They could support several times that level of effort (which is less than one US aircraft carrier can support). I agree the air campaign is mostly isolation and strong point reduction. The punishment inflicted on Lebannon north of the Litani I think is counter productive. As far as the ground campaign goes, I wonder if the Israeli Army will use the same technicques the US learned the hard way in the Pacific in WWII. That is, just seal up the bunkers and entomb the occupants.

DEFINITELY ANTI ISRAEL AND FULL OF UNSUPPORTED CONCLUSIONS. HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL JOURNALISM. KNOCK IT OFF. GO GET A CIVIL SERVICE JOB WHERE NO BRAIN IS REQUIRED.

Thousands of bombs shipped every day to Southern Lebanon. These guys were going to use them whether it's now or in 5 years. Their one goal is to destroy Israel no matter what or when. The backing from Syria and Iran to bring those weapons in is what needs to be stopped.

you are truly a left-wing journalist blinded by your mental disorder..don't you get it? this movement has nothing to do with U.S. policy in the middle east or Israel's actions against terrorist movements...these guys will not stop until your name is Ahmed and you're praying five times a day toward Mecca...