What is the use of all these governments, religions and millions and millions of words.

In the end the innocent on all sides are slaughtered by the most advanced technology available.

We in America will not be spared from this in the end. So much time has been wasted. Until there is useful dialogue supported by the US nothing will change. We are the big dog.

What we do sets the tone. We took a little punch and fell into a rage that continues to today. Where is our courage to stand?

Neither the middle eastern states nor terrorists can kill us all but we can kill our own beliefs and values.

War is not the answer. The US has unlimited war making ability and cannot solve this problem.
The answer is peace.

Israel is the most powerful nation in the region.
Let the Israeli leadership lead by patient example and chill out.

Reading through several of these blogs, I would like to make a few comments:-
1.) The Philistines who gave their name to Palestine were an Aegean seafaring people, settled by the Egyptian Pahroahs on the borders of their empire as a buffer against the Hittites. They were not, as are the Assyrians, the Chaldeans, the Arabs and the Israelis, a Semitic race. The Arabs incidentally are the largest of the Semitic groups, while the Israelis are the only the largest minority group of Semites.
2.) The Balfour declaration promised the Jewish people a "Homeland in Palestine." It did NOT promise an independent Israel.
3.) In 1949 Great Britain was the only country NOT to vote for the recognition and establishment of Israel and it was not until the early 50s that Britain in fact recognised Israel officially.
4.) As a person who is half Arab (Lebanese,) I am certainly inclined to offer support to people with whom I share some ethnicity, but I most certainly can NOT agree that Hizballah has any moral grounds. They claim to be fighting for the return of Lebanese lands, namely the Sheba'a farms. If this were indeed Lebanese territory, why has the Syrian government NOT ratified this, and why does it remain on United Nations maps, listed as Syrian territory? Why has Syria as yet NOT recognised the Lebanon as an independent country and why do they have NO diplomatic representation there?
5.) If Hizballah is a National organisation, why are there hundreds of Iranian Revolutionary Guards training Hizballah's militia and thousands more inside the Lebanon as part of the military and political wing of Hizballah? There is no agreement with the Lebanese authorities that Itanians should operate in the Lebanon as military advisors or as fighters.(Incidentally Iranians are NOT Arabs and not Semites but Indo-Europeans,n and apart from the fact that some of their theologians are obliged to learn Arabic to read and/or understand the Qoran, their language is an Indo-European language and NOT Arabic or any other Semitic language.)
6.) While Syria and Iran are for the time being temporary bed-fellows in the Middle East, it is certainly the Iranian plan to dominate the Middle-East that is responsible for the present situation there, more than anything the USA could or should have done.
7.) The Bush administration is certainly inept, and certainly has underestimated the hostility with which the United States is viewed by many Arabs. I doubt, however, that the Arab in the street ahs any more desire to live under a Shiite theocracy than they do under an American imposed "democracy," one that most, after 2000 (see Florida returns and 2004 (Ohio returns and incidents)they view as illegitimate in any case.
8.) My final point is one that distresses me more than all the above. From messages and calls to family in the Lebaon, I have learned of incidents of Hizballah, undercover of darkness, entering Christian areas of Lebanon and at gunpoint, not hesitating to kill any one resisting, to place their missile launchers and fire them from the 'safe haven' of Christian areas. Obviously anticipating an Israeli reprisal that would kill Christians and bring that section of the Lebanese population to their side.
9.) The response of the few Arab countries that attended the Rome conference and the silence of those that did not, is entirely due to the fact that the Arab countries have no wish to find themselves the puppets of an Iranian controlled neo-empirs dominated by the Shiite clergy and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
10.) Russia may be prostituting herself and cosying up to Tehran, but they will find that this sort of tactic will largely come back to bite them as well.
11.) The solution of course IS to impose a peace settlement on the whole region through United Nations, but alas this will not be realised since both Russia and China are each using the situation to forward their own agendas.
12.) Unless the five permanent memnbers of the Security Council can come to some agreement, then the world should pity not just the Lebanese, the Palestinians or the Israelis, but all the Semitic races in the coming conflagration that is likley to consume the whole region.

Reading through several of these blogs, I would like to make a few comments:-
1.) The Philistines who gave their name to Palestine were an Aegean seafaring people, settled by the Egyptian Pahroahs on the borders of their empire as a buffer against the Hittites. They were not, as are the Assyrians, the Chaldeans, the Arabs and the Israelis, a Semitic race. The Arabs incidentally are the largest of the Semitic groups, while the Israelis are the only the largest minority group of Semites.
2.) The Balfour declaration promised the Jewish people a "Homeland in Palestine." It did NOT promise an independent Israel.
3.) In 1949 Great Britain was the only country NOT to vote for the recognition and establishment of Israel and it was not until the early 50s that Britain in fact recognised Israel officially.
4.) As a person who is half Arab (Lebanese,) I am certainly inclined to offer support to people with whom I share some ethnicity, but I most certainly can NOT agree that Hizballah has any moral grounds. They claim to be fighting for the return of Lebanese lands, namely the Sheba'a farms. If this were indeed Lebanese territory, why has the Syrian government NOT ratified this, and why does it remain on United Nations maps, listed as Syrian territory? Why has Syria as yet NOT recognised the Lebanon as an independent country and why do they have NO diplomatic representation there?
5.) If Hizballah is a National organisation, why are there hundreds of Iranian Revolutionary Guards training Hizballah's militia and thousands more inside the Lebanon as part of the military and political wing of Hizballah? There is no agreement with the Lebanese authorities that Itanians should operate in the Lebanon as military advisors or as fighters.(Incidentally Iranians are NOT Arabs and not Semites but Indo-Europeans,n and apart from the fact that some of their theologians are obliged to learn Arabic to read and/or understand the Qoran, their language is an Indo-European language and NOT Arabic or any other Semitic language.)
6.) While Syria and Iran are for the time being temporary bed-fellows in the Middle East, it is certainly the Iranian plan to dominate the Middle-East that is responsible for the present situation there, more than anything the USA could or should have done.
7.) The Bush administration is certainly inept, and certainly has underestimated the hostility with which the United States is viewed by many Arabs. I doubt, however, that the Arab in the street ahs any more desire to live under a Shiite theocracy than they do under an American imposed "democracy," one that most, after 2000 (see Florida returns and 2004 (Ohio returns and incidents)they view as illegitimate in any case.
8.) My final point is one that distresses me more than all the above. From messages and calls to family in the Lebaon, I have learned of incidents of Hizballah, undercover of darkness, entering Christian areas of Lebanon and at gunpoint, not hesitating to kill any one resisting, to place their missile launchers and fire them from the 'safe haven' of Christian areas. Obviously anticipating an Israeli reprisal that would kill Christians and bring that section of the Lebanese population to their side.
9.) The response of the few Arab countries that attended the Rome conference and the silence of those that did not, is entirely due to the fact that the Arab countries have no wish to find themselves the puppets of an Iranian controlled neo-empirs dominated by the Shiite clergy and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
10.) Russia may be prostituting herself and cosying up to Tehran, but they will find that this sort of tactic will largely come back to bite them as well.
11.) The solution of course IS to impose a peace settlement on the whole region through United Nations, but alas this will not be realised since both Russia and China are each using the situation to forward their own agendas.
12.) Unless the five permanent memnbers of the Security Council can come to some agreement, then the world should pity not just the Lebanese, the Palestinians or the Israelis, but all the Semitic races in the coming conflagration that is likley to consume the while region.

This is what Al-Queda said today...
"The war with Israel does not depend on cease-fires ... . It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere."

This is not a war that just involves Israel. This is a war against Islamic jihad who threaten all that modern civilization has created, even in the Arab world.

"Innocent children, teenagers and adults are having their lives taken, or destroyed"

I agree...and my heart goes out to every family who has lost life. That is why we need to rid terrorism to prevent these situations from occuring in the first place. Perhaps if the world stood up and said something while Hezbollah was firing missles into Israel over the past 6 years instead of allowing them to grow more powerful by expanding to be within the government we wouldn't be in this situation.

"Co-operation with the Lebanese government to reign in Hizbollah (give thme the intelligence and weaponry to do it) would have been more successful and cost effective in terms lives lost"

They had six years to do this and all that resulted was their political integration, legitimizing terrorism.

To compare what Israel is doing to the Holocaust is progragandist lies. Germany specifically targetted the jews as a race and a religion. Israel has very clearly made its goals are to go after Hezbollah. The problem is Hezbollah are cowards who hide behind there own people. That is why there are so many civilian causulties. This is no tit-for-tat fighting -- if it were, with the military might that Israel has there would be many many more civilian deaths. Hezbollah, on the other hand, has no other goals other than to "wipe Israel off the map". This situation isn't even comparible to the IRA which never called for Britain's annhilation, let alone, never fired missles for six years in a row at Britain either.

Remember when the IRA bombed Canary Wharf in London. Should all of Ireland (including the Republic) have been carpet bombed including Dublin Aerport, the ESB power lines, milk factors, fleeing civilians, Northern Irish unionists (pro-British), Southern Irish hindus, citizens of other sovereing states, Northern Nationalists (non-violent), the Irish Army (not involved), caused 1/3 of the population of the island to be displaced and resulting in 400 deaths (virtually all civilian) and "setting the country back 20 years"

Would this response have been helpful?

Would it be proportionate?

A violation of sovereignty?

A war crime?

Would it have solved anything?

I am disgusted and saddened by the war-mongers here. Innocent children, teenagers and adults are having their lives taken, or destroyed and for what, for a idea they never supported. A country ruined, economically and socially after it has recoevered from a civil war and become a democratic state and a beacon for tourists, a symbol for peaceful co-existence in the middle east. It's infrastructure destroyed.

Why the hell don't you care about people, where's your compassion?

It's easy to bang the drum for war but what if your family was on the receiving end of 500 pound "precision" laser guided bombs from F-16 fighter jets from the most militarily advanced country in the region against a country too weak to fight back, a sort of no-contest slaughter.

Hizbollah are not Lebanon. Why should Lebanon suffer for the actions of a few individuals.

Co-operation with the Lebanese government to reign in Hizbollah (give thme the intelligence and weaponry to do it) would have been more successful and cost effective in terms lives lost, treasure and standing the the world.

People of Jewish faith were massacred in a Holocaust sixty-six years ago...it does not give others of the same religion a right to massacre innocents also and plead the events of sixty-six years before in a distant land by foreign persons as an excuse for murdering perons who had no part in that Holocaust.

That's right...the war is about fighting a terrrorist regime who was not dismantled as required by the UN and who continued to fire missles into Israel for the past SIX years. Since the Israeli military doesn't put rocket launchers ontop of apartment buildings, that would distinguish them from putting their own civilians at risk and caring enough about their own to not make them human shields and be proud about it. For once, I can stand behind our leaders in congress who don't cowar to the fear of terrorism and fight to oppose islamic jihad from governing.

People, people, people. Israeli military leaders live among civilians. So, that means they are hiding among civilians, so it's fine for Hezbollah to kill the civilians who live next to the homes of Israeli military commanders.

One little repressed fact in all of the harangue over who is a "terrorist" (a completely politicized term if ever there was one--i.e. in America, a terrorist is anyone who resists U.S. and Israeli designs for the Middle East) Lebanon and Israel have signed no peace agreement. They are legally in a state of war. The soldiers were not "kidnapped." They were abducted, and are prisoners of war.

Israel could have gathered intelligence and gone in and retrieved its soldiers, as it has done before. It has also negotiated with Hezbollah in the past.

This war is not about those prisoners, and Israeli military leaders have said so. Outloud. In the press. The war on Lebanon has been planned for a year.

These are facts.

The Rev,

Your letter summarizes everything that needs to be said but is not. Thank you. What is amazing is the Democrats cowar and once again do not take the leadership to speak out against war as the option in fear of raising anger among their contributors.

Since 2000, Hizbullah violated the Blue Line on the Israeli-Lebanese border 100 times, while Israelis violated that line 11,782 times. (These numbers are based on UN observers)

In the future, brothers and sisters of these children are going to be part of Hizbullah. You can never surpress Terrorism by Terrorism!

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

WHo the heck knows how to solve this problem.

who needs this war

This war is crazy and all of the politicians are letting the extremists run wild.

Hello Kitty

Test

Hi

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To the poster who replied to me.

"Sally,

Your comments are alarming. In your eyes it would seem to be that we should allow terrorists to govern this world."

I am very sorry dear poster, but I have not said or even implied such a thing. And I simply don't understand how my comment could have been contrued in this way.

In a nutshell:
1. I have been puzzled by the lack of empathy for especially children that surely cannot be blamed for Hezbollah or this conflict. This doesn't have anything to do whatsoever with the rights or wrongs of this conflict.
2. I have been puzzled that civilians have not been allowed safe passage away from the line of fire. Dropping leaflets is fine, but if you are getting blown to the smitherens for following the advice, something is wrong. Aid, medicines, and food cannot come in because the country is blockaded or the constant fire doesn't allow anyone to transport those items, something is wrong. This again, has nothing to do with self defense, fighting radicalism, or who has the moral high ground.

David,

Jan Egeland, the UN Hunanitarian chief said last night "Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men.

"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland

That is evil. Hezbollah, as any terrorists who use civilians as shields in any form they can and who fire randomly to civilians without any purpose other than murder is evil.

Shannon "But I ask you, if Israel is targeting civilians -- then why are they asking civilains to vacate Hezbollah safe areas before they strike? "

The real question is, why are they blowing up the convoys of fleeing civilians that have been told to leave?

Doctors at Tyre has saids there have been at least six Israeli stikes EVERY day on fleeing civilains (that's a listed war crime by the way).

Not one, not a few, but at least six every day. Add to that yesterdays attack on ambulances, including using the giant red cross on the roof as a target, with a rocket hitting perfectly, exactly in the dead centro of the cross, despite red and blue flashing lights etc.

Add to this Isreali strikes on
grain silos
milk factories (x2)
Sleeping lLebanese soldiers in barracks (x3)
light house
food aid convoy
medical aid convoy
ambulance (another one)
hospital
whole blocks of civilian apartments
Christian suburbs of Beiruit
and dozens and dozens of strikes on fleeing civilians.
Many more strikes on civilains homes.

Israel strike those civilains who try to leave.

They strike civilians who have no transport and can't leave.

And how many of these people have something to do with the kidnap of tow soldiers??

It's evil.

You are being perfectly fare by comparing apples to oranges; your statement "13 Israelis and about 230 Lebanese civilians had been killed in the war between Israel and Hezbollah" compares military and civilians, whom you called Israelis, to 230 Leaneses civilians. Are you trying to hide some thing?

Shannon,
I haven't seen pictures of Hezballah equipment in mosques so I won't comment on that, but once again Israel is invading Lebanon. If the US is invaded by a superior army, I'm sure we would use any means possible to defend our country.

I think it is clear that Israel has a policy to hit back hard and hit back at civilians. Today IDF Chief of Staff, Dan Halutz, said that for every missle that hits Haifa, we will knock down 10 buildings in Dahiya (a suburb of Lebanon full of 12 story buildings). They believe that overpowering response will deter future attacks.

On the second day of the Israeli raids on Lebanon they targeted vehicle leaving the village nearest to the area where Hezballah captured the Israeli soldiers (I can't remember the name) and killed twenty people fleeing the village. That was not an accident.

When Britain was fighting against the IRA in the 1980s they would not retaliate against attacks by killing 400 Catholics.

Peter,

I agree that the bombings are creating a double edged sword for Israel, but to deny that Hezbollah doesn't use their civilians as targets is false and innaccurate. Pictures have shown rocket launchers ontop of cilvian buildings and bunkers under mosques, as some media outlets who are brave enough to enter these towns have shown. It is rare that the international community has portrayed Israel in a positive light and I certainly don't see that know (calling Omert a Nazi, etc. etc.) People will pick and choose what information they want to believe based on their biases before this war ever started. But I ask you, if Israel is targeting civilians -- then why are they asking civilains to vacate Hezbollah safe areas before they strike?

Sully,

I don't know how you can dismiss the facts (the numbers) like you do, and say that Israel is forced to kill civilians because Hezballah is hiding among the civilian population. Surely there is some mixing of civilians and military, because the fighting is being fought in Lebanese towns (just like there would be mixing if Israel were being invaded or if we were being invaded).

I imagine that Hezballah has underground tunnels and bunkers and other military structures that are separate from the civilian. Regardless, there are no Hezballah missles in Beirut Airport, nor are they using fuel from the airport. And I don't buy the argument that Israel has to destroy every bridge in Lebanon to ensure that Hezballah fighters can't move around.

Also, to suggest that Hezballa fighters don't care about their own civilians is nonsense. Many civilians are fleeing to avoid the violence, and Hezballah is not stopping them. In contrast, Israel has targetted civilians leaving these towns after they were told by Israel to flee their homes.

My inititial point remains that Israel's bombing of Lebanon is targetting Lebanese civilians. This can be seen in the 10:1 ratio of Lebanese civilians killed to Hezballah fighters. (In an eye opening contrast, which you dismiss, the ratio of Israeli civilians to military killed by Hezballah "terrorists" is 1:1.) Furthermore, Israel's targetting of Lebanese civilians and infrastructure is a lame policy because Hezballah will have less incentive to disarm, and because Lebanese society will not blame Hezballah for the bombings, they will blame Israel.

A comment said "Arab states will do whatever necessary to destroy Israel, including developing long term alliances with China and Russia; and also developing nuclear capability to offset the only other nuclear nation in the area, Israel. This war is making the World a much more dangerous place."

I guess one view is to get rid of Israel and all will have peace in this world. How does that explain the train bombings in Spain and India -- both of which had nothing to do with Israel. How does that explain the violent riots in Europe after acting on freedom of the press in a free part of the world. How does that explain slaughtering of innocent children in Chechneya. You get rid of Israel and you think extermism will not target you? Norway recently printed an anti-semitic carcature of Ohmert -- you don't see jews rioting in the streets. Thinking that you can sit back and smoke a peace pipe with a terrorist organization out of fear that they won't turn their aggression on you is wishful thinking. It didn't work in Nazi Germany for the jews and there is no evidence that it works for Islamic extremism. The only way to defeat them is to get rid of them so that the muslim nations can take back their land. God Bless Israel for being the ONLY country to stand up for freedom in both worlds.

More and more arab people are speaking out about the conflict...from the Arab Times

People of Arab countries, especially the Lebanese and Palestinians, have been held hostage for a long time in the name of "resisting Israel." Arab governments have been caught between political obligations and public opinion leading to more corruption in politics and economics. Forgetting the interests of their own countries the Hamas Movement and Hezbollah have gone to the extent of representing the interests of Iran and Syrian in their countries. These organizations have become the representatives of Syria and Iran without worrying about the consequences of their action.

Recently Hamas kidnapped an Israeli soldier and bombed Israeli settlements with locally manufactured missiles. Soon Hezbollah followed suit, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers. Both these organizations claimed they had kidnapped Israeli soldiers to exchange them for Arab prisoners who are being held in Israeli jails. The fact that Hamas and Hezbollah gave the same reason for kidnapping Israeli soldiers gives us a glimpse their agenda, which is similar to the one followed by Syria and Iran in their conflict with the United States.

While the people of Palestine and Lebanon are paying the price of this bloody conflict, the main players, who caused this conflict, are living in peace and asking for more oil from Arab countries to support the facade of resisting Israel. With the Palestinian Authority close to collapse and the Lebanese government beginning to give up responsibility for what is happening in its territory, Saudi Arabia has been forced to come out of its diplomatic routine and indirectly hold Hezbollah responsible for what is happening Lebanon.

Without mentioning Hezbollah by name Saudi Arabia blamed certain "elements" inside Lebanon for the violence with Israel and said "it is necessary to make a distinction between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures adopted by certain elements within Lebanon without the knowledge of legal Lebanese authorities." While reiterating its support for Palestinian and Lebanese resistance against Israeli occupation, Saudi Arabia has clearly said it is against irresponsible adventures undertaken by certain elements in the region without consulting the legal authorities putting all Arab nations at risk. The Kingdom has also said "these elements must take responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis created by them."

This angry response from Saudi Arabia has politically isolated Hezbollah and Hamas besides holding them responsible for their actions.

This attitude of Saudi Arabia, which has been doing all it can to protect the Arab world from Israeli aggression, is enough to unmask the adventurers, who have violated the rights of their own countries and tried put their people under the guardianship of foreign countries like Iran and Syria. A battle between supporters and opponents of these adventurers has begun, starting from Palestine to Tehran passing through Syria and Lebanon. This war was inevitable as the Lebanese government couldn't bring Hezbollah within its authority and make it work for the interests of Lebanon. Similarly leader of the Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas has been unable to rein in the Hamas Movement.

Unfortunately we must admit that in such a war the only way to get rid of "these irregular phenomena" is what Israel is doing. The operations of Israel in Gaza and Lebanon are in the interest of people of Arab countries and the international community.

The lie at the center wrote:
"Yet, we are now hearing even from the President that Israel had to attack to stop the missiles from raining down on Israeli communities. No such rain of missiles took place until after Israel attacked Lebanon."

While I agree with your facts I disagree with your statement that Israel "attacked" Lebanon. Israel reponded to an attack by Hezbollah.

He/She continues:
"When the propagandists who repeat this lie at the center of the case for Israel's attack on Lebanon are cornered, they cite the fact that Hezbollah possessed some 12,000 missiles, which not even Hezbollah denies. But that leads only to an argument for preemptive war. That is a blank check to attack anyone at any time of your choosing. That is not a principle American citizens should endorse."

First you need to get the cronology of what happened straight:
1) Hezbollah made a cross border raid into Israel, killing 8 soldiers and kidnapping two which Hezbollah then expected to exchange for Israeli held Hezbollah members.
2) Israel responded by attacking Hezbollah positions and an air/sea blockade of Lebanon by bombing air and sea ports and supporting infrastructure.
3) Hezbollah calls for "open war" and admits it has 13,000 missles which it begins sending into Israel.

Second, calling the response to a cross border attack that leaves 8 soldiers dead and 2 kidnapped a "preemptive attack" when Hezbollah not only did not deny they made the attack, they boasted about it, is like calling the USA's invasion of Afganistan or war with Japan a preemptive attack. That is just plain wrong.

peter wrote:
"You're right that Hezballah does not have precision guided weapons to target the Israeli military, however, over 50% of the Israeli victims are military. Israel with total command of the sky, and precision guided weapons is hitting less than 20% military targets. And the numbers should speak for themselves: Over 350 Lebanese dead, more than 300 civilian. About 40 Israeli dead about 20 military."

Well the numbers cannot speak for themselves because this war is not being fought the same way on both sides. Israel has its military in non-populated areas. You've seen the tanks on TV sitting in bare fields and mountain sides firing shells. Funny how Hezbollah never shows its firing of missles. Maybe that's because they do so from inside towns, they hide munitions in people's basements. The Israeli's are not firing indiscriminantly but aiming well. Hezbollah uses Lebanese civilians as human shields to discourage the Israeli's. And when did you last see Hezbollah helping in evacuations? When have they tended to wounded, or simply move their weapons outside of a town to protect the population.

Face it, Hezbollah could care less about the civilians and only sees them as shields for it own protection. Don't blame Israel for targeting Hezbollah missles when the missles are being fired from an apartment building. Blame Hezbollah for using civilians as shields. It is Hezbollah who is responsible for all the deaths on boths side of this conflict.

Up the list, someone wrote this: " The Lebanese have been sheltering Hezbollah killers who have been rocketing and bombing Israel for ten years almost every day."

On a forum frequented by many strong supporters of Israel, I asked for supporting evidence for claims such as this. (Someone there had said "thousands" of missiles had hit Israeli apartment buildings, thus justifying Israel's effort to clear out a buffer zone in south Lebanon.) Simply reviewing the sources these pro-Israeli advocates gave me, the sum total of cross-border incidents from the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 until its attack in July 2006 was perhaps 60. Most of them were confrontations between military units, having nothing to do with rocket attacks on civilians. I believe the main point of contention is the so-called Shebaa Farms, a disputed bit of territory in the Golan Heights.

One rocket attack was reported in that time span. One. It injured three people. Errant anti-aircraft fire killed a young man in an Israeli town. And an ambush of a car resulted in some deaths, although attributing responsibility is not certain; the attackers may have been Hezbollah, but may have been Palestinian.

Now, again, this is what pro-Israeli advocates who had made similar claims could produce. Yet, we are now hearing even from the President that Israel had to attack to stop the missiles from raining down on Israeli communities. No such rain of missiles took place until after Israel attacked Lebanon.

When the propagandists who repeat this lie at the center of the case for Israel's attack on Lebanon are cornered, they cite the fact that Hezbollah possessed some 12,000 missiles, which not even Hezbollah denies. But that leads only to an argument for preemptive war. That is a blank check to attack anyone at any time of your choosing. That is not a principle American citizens should endorse.

I live in DC. My point is this: You're right that Hezballah does not have precision guided weapons to target the Israeli military, however, over 50% of the Israeli victims are military. Israel with total command of the sky, and precision guided weapons is hitting less than 20% military targets. And the numbers should speak for themselves: Over 350 Lebanese dead, more than 300 civilian. About 40 Israeli dead about 20 military.

The number of missles fired into Israel is horrible, but it does not compare to what Israel is launching at Lebanon. The counting of missles is very misleading, tonnage wise it is certain that for every ton of bombs that falls on Israel more than 500 tons of bombs are falling on Lebanon (and the same in Gaza).

Mr. Arkin: The killing of Lebanese civilians WILL (not may) embolden and create more terrorists; and their target will be the USA.

This act of the United States government: "taking the leash off of Israel" and letting the "mad dog" loose on Lebanon is wrong, shameful and regrettable. This war Israel has chosen to engage in, under the excuse of a few hostage soldiers, will lead to significant ill will from all sane countries in the world against both Israel and their "masters and creators", the U.S.A. Until the United States government admits their mistake of 1948 and arranges to extract Israel from the mideast, we can expect no sincere cooperation or respect from any Arab states.

Arab states will do whatever necessary to destroy Israel, including developing long term alliances with China and Russia; and also developing nuclear capability to offset the only other nuclear nation in the area, Israel. This war is making the World a much more dangerous place.

Mr. Arkin:

Not "may", but "will". The killing of Lebanese civilian WILL embolden terrorists and point them directly at the USA.

This act of the United States government: "taking the leash off of Israel" and letting the "mad dog" loose on Lebanon is wrong, shameful and regrettable. This war Israel has chosen to engage in, under the excuse of a few hostage soldiers, will lead to significant ill will from all sane countries in the world against both Israel and their "masters and creators", the U.S.A. Until the United States government admits their mistake of 1948 and arranges to extract Israel from the mideast, we can expect no sincere cooperation or respect from any Arab states.

Arab states will do whatever necessary to destroy Israel, including developing long term alliances with China and Russia; and also developing nuclear capability to offset the only other nuclear nation in the area, Israel. This war is making the World a much more dangerous place.

Peter,

On what planet do you exist? Hezbollah has been sending over hundreds of missles a day with masses of metal to shred people apart in them. Just because they have bad aim and miss their targets resulting in fewer causulties you think they're more succesful? I guess that explains the two Arab boys who were killed in the largely Arab neighborhood they hit.

And if the palestinians would stop being terrorists and stop atacking Israel since it became a state, then perhaps they will get the civil rights everyone wants them to have. Or is being a terrorist justified in the Koran for getting what they want? Ironic that you would like to place the victim of terrorism as the aggressor.

Peter,

On what planet do you exist? Hezbollah has been sending over hundreds of missles a day with masses of metal to shred people apart in them. Just because they have bad aim and miss their targets resulting in fewer causulties you think they're more succesful? I guess that explains the two Arab boys who were killed in the largely Arab neighborhood they hit.

And if the palestinians would stop being terrorists and stop atacking Israel since it became a state, then perhaps they will get the civil rights everyone wants them to have. Or is being a terrorist justified in the Koran for getting what they want? Ironic that you would like to place the victim of terrorism as the aggressor.

Hit it on the nail, Arkin.

The US shouldn't even be in this fight, it's not ours. Israel wants to make up for the only time they were defeated, at the expense of innocents killed.

Worse it's OWN ARMS doing the killing. Don't want anymore of US tax dollars being spent on this tit-for-tat war with schoolyard bullies. Especially for those who killed our own citizens.

Let everyone be reminded of the Lavon Affair, too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

SandyK

Want to add, that not all Jews are for this warfare (or even recognize Israel)...

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

Read. Learn. Understand. There's another voice in all of this tormoil. One that's proven to have worked, as Torah Jews have lived aside Muslims/Arabs for hundreds of years -- peacefully.

SandyK

Susan,

You say that Israel is such a small country, but Lebanon is less that half the size of Israel. Gaza is about twice as big as DC. Its tiny.

Nobody serious in the Middle East wants to wipe Israel off the map. And even if they did, they can't. They do want Israel to behave differently - to give civil rights to Palestinians in Israel and in the Palestinian territories, who've been living under a racist occupation for thirty years. And the Arab countries, like Isreal do not want to be threatened by their neighbor.

While some people talk about defending Israel's existence, what do they consider of what Israel is doing in Lebanon? A third of the country has been forced to leave their homes. (Could you imagine a third of the US having to leave their homes?) All the infrastructure is being destroyed - radio and TV stations, factories, etc. Israel is targetting all vans and buses, because they fear they are carrying rockets, but they are killing civilians.

And while Hezballah is considered a "terrorist" organization, they are doing a much better job, at hitting military targets and limiting civilian casualties than is Israel, even though Hezballah has much cruder weapons.

Israel is a small country. Should Israel sit back and wait until thousands of Israelis die before responding? How many Israelis have to die before Israel can attack back without being accused of a "disproportionate" response?

Amir Peretz, the Defense Minister, is a founding member of Peace Now. He is not some crazy war monger. He must have a very good reason to support this response.

Hezbollah, like Ahmadinejad has a Nazi-like hatredf of all Jews everwhere. They never just wanted to get Israel out of Lebanon. They want Israel destroyed and the Jews dead or reduce to perpetual dhimmi status.

It makes no sense that Israel is trying to kill the Labanese people. With the power of their military, if they wanted to make civilians their targets, they would have killed thousands more. As many labanese civilians have stated in recent interviews, the IDFs air strikes are clearly and surprisingly targeted to specific sites. This is a news flash for the world -- Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Unfortunately, they place missles untop of people's houses and bunkers below mosques and their own civilian property. They use ambulances and civilian vehicles as cover for themselves and yet the world wonders why there have been more civilian causulties in Lebanon? Its quite an impressive strategy as Israel will have to stop going after Hezbollah now because the rest of the civilized world throws up there arms, enabling these terrorists to regroup and throwing the blame to Israel. Ironically, Israel is the ONLY country to drop leaflets to the same civilians its supposed to be targeting. Can anyone name any other Arab regime that has done the same? Certainly Hezbollah is not.

In the meantime, they have successfully diverted attention away from the Iranian nuclear crisis and somehow Russia has decided to not enforce Iran to stop enrichment. Not only that you've got Chavez in Argentina who loves his buddy in Iran and who just accepted 1 billion dollars of fighter jets from Russia, Osama who loves his American buddies, and North Korea with an axe to grind. Hmmm, I guess once Israel has been nuked, there will be no more problems left. Oh yeah, except for western civilization.

I read a short article by AFP that simply said:

"After x days 18 Israeli soldiers and 13 Israeli civilians have died, and 25 Lebanese soldiers and 280 Lebanese civilians have died. Hezbolla has said that six of their fighters have died."

It is very clear that the majority of the Lebanese killed have been civilians, and that about half of the Israelis killed have been civilian.

Israel is not using their advanced technology and laser guided missles to avoid civilian casualties. They may want to defeat Hezballah, but they also want to force Lebanon blame Hezballah for the damage.

That's the same strategy al-qaeda used on 9-11. Media reports indicated that al-qaeda was surprised that people in the US didn't turn on their govt. Hit them hard, they thought, and then the people will turn against the govt. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't work. You just kill a lot of people and make them angry.

I give the Israel's existence just about as long as it takes America to develope alternative fuel sources.Once the U.S. no needs the middle east, so goes our support of Israel. Jews are no better or worse than any other group of people, but the Israeli claim to territory is tenuous at best and their "right to exist" holds only as long as we need them.

I give the Israel's existence just about as long as it takes America to develope alternative fuel sources.Once we have no need for the middle east, so goes our support of Israel. Jews are no better or worse than any other group of people, but the Israeli claim to territory is tenuous at best and their "right to exist" holds only as long as we need them.

You go Rev!

Not all Americans are uneducated and biased towards the Zionist entity after all.

There is hope!

RE: The "Reverend"---from his writings his hated of the Jews spews out and most likely he is a racist although he denies it. Typically.
His observations of what he believes right leaves little room for disagreement. This so-called holy man needs some education in religion and tolerance.

Many have argued--quite convincingly--that the fire bombing of Dresden was a ceding of the moral high ground. Whether it was proportionate or not is beside the point.

Thank you Bueller...I couldn't have said it better myself

So, now I see that some commentators are saying that Israel's bombing of Lebanese Hezbollah strong points and neighborhoods is "disproportionate." The Israeli campaign, so this story goes, is bullying and terrorizing the Lebanese populace, and this is (so the argument goes) typical Israeli thug behavior.

Hmmm.

Let's see. In World War II, the Germans bombed exactly no United States cities or towns. We bombed the hell out of them, day and night, for more than two years, including helping the British with firebombing Dresden, one of the most appalling civilian killings by a free people of all time.

Was it disproportionate? Well, no. The Nazis had bombed our allies, the British, in terror raids for years. They had started a world war. They had created a genocide unspeakable in human history. So, yes, there was horrible killing, but is anyone now saying it was disproportionate? Maybe a few, but not many.

The Japanese bombed exactly zero U.S. cities except for a few stray bombs on Honolulu. We firebombed every city we could find and used the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Was this disproportionate? No, because the Japanese had started a world war and caused unspeakable suffering through Asia and the Pacific. Bombing was what it took to end the war in both Europe and the Pacific.

Now, Israel is bombing Beirut. The Lebanese have been sheltering Hezbollah killers who have been rocketing and bombing Israel for ten years almost every day. The Lebanese have admitted the terrorists into dominant positions in their government. In every way, Lebanon has made itself a haven for terrorists bombing civilians day in and day out in Israel. Is Israel finally standing up and saying enough "disproportionate"? Yes, if you think Israel and Jews should be permanent victims who suffer, bleed, and die in silence the way the Nazis preferred. No, if you believe Jews have the same rights as other people to defend themselves.

Look, if the Israelis wanted to inflict a lot of casualties from the air, they could. They have the second best air force in the world. Clearly, they are showing restraint. Three hundred dead is a lot, and every human's death is sad unless he's a terrorist, but we were killing 30,000 in a few hours in World War II and glorying in it. No news shows were showing German civilians getting fried and saying how sad it was. It was war against butchers and war is horrible, but it's war, and to defend human decency, sometimes war is necessary.

By any historic measure, Israel's response to a decade of torment is extremely restrained -- maybe too restrained. And it can stop any time the Hezbollah says they will use peaceful means to get their aims. I don't hear them saying that. What I hear is a thousand Hezbollah rockets falling on exclusively civilian targets in Eretz Israel. There's your answer about whether Israel's response is disproportionate.
5:33PM: A new barrage of Katushas has hit the north, including Tiberias, and the Upper Galilee.

4:23PM: Here in Israel, we are using our nervous energy in different ways. For instance, my good friend Harry has decided to channel his into making this metal song.

3:53PM: The number of wounded from the Haifa attacks has climbed to 30.

3:50PM: Bill Maher:
..I have to say, watching George Bush talk about Israel the last week has reminded me of a feeling that I hadn't felt in so long I forgot what it felt like: the feeling of pride when your president says what you want your president to say, especially in a matter that chokes you up a bit. I surrender my credentials as Bush exposer - from the very beginning - to no man, but on Israel, I love it that a U.S. president doesn't pretend Arab-Israeli conflict is an even-steven proposition. Lots of ethnic peoples, probably most, have at one time or another lost some territory; nobody's ever completely happy with their borders; people move and get moved, which is why the 20th century saw the movement of tens if not hundreds of millions of refugees in countries around the world. There was no entity of Arabs called "Palestine" before Israel made the desert bloom. If those 600,000 original Palestinian refugees had been handled with maturity by their Arab brethren, who had nothing but space to put them, they could have moved on -- the way Germans, Czechs, Poles, Chinese and everybody else has, including, of course, the Jews.

But I digress. I really wanted to say that, for all those who accuse the likes of myself and the birthday girl of being unpatriotic, or hating America first, the feeling I've had watching Israel defend herself and a US president defend Israel (a country that is held to a standard for "restraint" that no other country ever is asked to meet, but that's another story) just reminds me how wrong that is. I LOVE being on the side of my president, and mouthing "You go, boy" when he gets it right. He just, outside of this, almost never does

"The Rev" God help us if you call yourself a "reverend". Your extremist viewpoints are a shame to our society. I was by no means in support of the war in Iraq, but it is all too obvious with the instability the remains in the region there is a legitimate reason to stay. If you would like to make the jewish people and all those who support them the cause for your problems, you are just as much a fundamentalist as Hizballah. So don't pretend to know history or the bible for that matter, lest you go back to school and relearn about "love thy neighbor as thyself".

"The Rev" God help us if you call yourself a "reverend". Your extremist viewpoints are a shame to our society. I was by no means in support of the war in Iraq, but it is all too obvious with the instability the remains in the region there is a legitimate reason to stay. If you would like to make the jewish people and all those who support them the cause for your problems, you are just as much a fundamentalist as Hizballah. So don't pretend to know history or the bible for that matter, lest you go back to school and relearn about "love thself as you love thy neighbor".

Namron,

I am sure that you are right in context, however, we can take this thing even further back, even to the 1st Century A.D.

Or if the Philistines of the Bible, are really the Palestinians of today as some believe, this thing would go back beyond the Ottoman Empire, Constantinople, Alexandria, the Crusades... In other words, the names may have differed, however, it would appear that these next of kin, started fighting right after both Sarai and Hagar conceived...!

Their mother's apparently did not care very much for the other one, either!

The U.S.A. would have been wise to have stayed out of family feuds, from the onset!

Realcat or Redcat,

I cannot see those little leters, however, are you kidding me?

I suppose that America went to Iraq because Iraq had WMDs. When America did not find what they were looking for, did they leave? Do you want to buy the proverbial bridge...?

Of course they are trying to kill an idea! Thats what war is about. You kill those people who share a different viewpoint, and their ideas and ideals go to the graves with them.

Thas why, the same group of people, I want say it, had Jesus put to death. I will say that I am not speaking about the Romans.

The Rev has to tell the truth...

there is no defense of a dogmatic belief system that issues fatwahs or jihads as a part of it's religion...that is absolute crap....that is primitive, tribal garbage.

'Good discussion', American churches do the same thing, they simply go about it, quietly.

I visited a church in McLean Virginia, a year or so ago. It was around the time of the Veterans Day Celebration, Ken Starr belongs to this church.

The church service, was in celebration of the American Killing Machine; there was no cross to be seen in the church, however, there were a lot of flags of the American Idol, the U.S.A.. I walked out after about 15 minutes of it, that was all that I could take. The Jewish Pastor there, shares my last name. He was ecstatic, can you imagine why he would be?

We cannot tell other people and religious groups that they cannot do, what American religious groups have been doing all of the time.

I would agree with you more, if you would tell 'everyone to stop the Jihads', American Fundamentalists, and I am not speaking about Pentecostal and charismatic denominations, can be just as violent as the fundamentalist in the mid or near East!

Have you listened to the Religious Right lately? Have you heard their rhetoric, or noticed how much money they have been pouring into the war efforts, around the world? The American Church has been been compromised, it should rightfully be called The American Political Church.

I turned on the terrorvision during the wee hours of the morning a year or so ago, when the minister was so worked up that he almost cursed during his sermon. He was preaching about those, 'commie pinko...", when the word b-word, parsed his lips. He caught himself before the entire term could be uttered. Ironically, he had turned pink when he was speaking.

If you want to consider Jihads, how about the Crusades?

Wake up!

David,

You opined that the crisis in Lebanon was precipitated by a car bombing there as recently as May. Yet most estimates say that there are in the vicinity missiles, mainly smuggled in from Iran, stockpiled in the area from which Israel withdrew six years ago. Are you suggesting that this cache of weaponry has been built up over the last two months?

Lest you claim that Hezbollah has the right to maintain weaponry to be used in just such an eventuality, I say, no, they don't. The UN resolution which called for the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, which was complied with fully, also called for a disarming of Hezbollah.

You also calimed that the Mossad was responsible for the car bombing, using an unnamed newspaper as support. If that were deemed an acceptable criterion for determining the truth, then you would also have to conclude that Jews slaughter Christian children to use their blood in the baking of matzos, that 9/11 was also a Mossad plot, that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was factual, and that the holocaust never happened.

What shall it be?

"You can't kill an idea with bombs." says The Rev. What idea are you talking about? Israel isn't targeting an idea. It is targeting missles, those who fire them into Israel, and the supply routes for the attackers. Does Hizbollah even have any ideas beyond wanting to destroy Israel and Jews?

It is obvious by the comments that there is a very strong pro Jewish element. The whole blame for this fiasco can be laid at the feet of the US and no others. The US are the ones who have supplied the Zionists with the weapons solely to polster their Armaments industry.

You now wonder why the rest of the world are against the zionist/us policy, well look no further.

Send in the United Nations and confiscate all weapons both from both sides that is the only way peace will ever come to that region.

The hate is also on both sides so please don't blame one without the other. Always remember it takes two hands to clap.

Much philisophical interpretation is being spent on the discrepancies between the number of Lebanese killed or injured versus the number of Israelis. How about a simpler explanation? After 60 years of missle attacks, everyone in northern Israel who can, has spent most of the last week in bomb shelters. That's why they are not getting killed by the hundreds of missles being fired by Hezbollah and Hamas. If they all stood out in the street waiting to be hit, thus increasing the Israeli death toll, would the anti-Israel lobby be happy then?

My second question is how did the Lebanese leadership (and the UN peacekeepers)fail to notice thousands of missles that were being stockpiled? I could have sworn getting rid of them was the second part of the agreement when Israel pulled back to officially recognized borders.

For every massacre that the Arab world would like to recall of the Israelis, there are hundreds more committed by the palestinians. Take for example the 1921 and 1939 massacres of innocent jews before Israel was ever even a state. The fact is -- is that the Israelis became a civilized society and the palestinains -- they became terrorists and suicide bombers who have been attacking Israel since before it ever existed.

Israel doesn't target civilians, as the propagandist will like you to believe. They seek the people who fire at them. They even inform the civilians to vacate an area before they strike. Hezbollah, on the other hand, has been sending hundreds of rockets over for the past year, from a land that Israel withdrew from -- and just because they have bad aim and haven't killed as many people, people would like to blame Israel for using excessive force to rid these terrorists? Clearly this is a difficult task. If it were so easy, then perhaps America would have found Osama bin Laden by now. Perhaps if the rest of the world stepped up to the plate and prevented these terrorists from gaining more power Lebonon wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Only then will we all be able to go on living in peace.

The Israeli 'shock and awe'(an euphemism for terror,by the way) campaign is factually terrorist, that is: it provokes terror. Here we have a factual equivalence, and we should leave the fuzzy evaluation of 'moral equivalences' to the wisdom of ambassador Bolton and other Bush administration moralists

Israel has overwhelming force and has choice in how it exercises this force. It can (and is) able to annihilate Lebanon since the Lebanese are powerless -- as is most of the rest of the World -- to stop Israel. The US is the only power that has influence over Israel, but is not using it. Instead, it is giving Israel free rein to "de-fang" Hizbollah. Regretfully, innocent civilians -- men, women, children -- are caught in the middle of this cleansing process.

Cleansing can have side affects. And, as we do know, that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. During the 1982 Sabra and Shatila Massacre, the Israel Defence Force was found to have permitted conditions where Maronite Chiristian militias were allowed to massacre innocent civilians, when ostensibly they were there to weed out (or de-fang) PLO fighters. The IDF stood aside as the massacre took place. It wasn't that the Israelis did not have a mortal enemy in the PLO. But it ended up with innocent blood on its hand as it used the Maronites to conduct is proxy war.

As innocent Lebanese die, and the US stands aside to allow Israel to de-fang Hezbollah, I can't but painfully see a parallel. Israel is not conducting massacres of innocents, but innocents are being massacred. In the case of Israel, average decent Israelis demanded an inquiry. Will average, decent Americans do the same if disproportionate violence is displayed? I hope.

Sally,

Your comments are alarming. In your eyes it would seem to be that we should allow terrorists to govern this world. That we should allow extremist militant regimes to dominate and that we should do nothing about it because their tactics of ruling through fear allows them to. Noone in the civilized world wants to see innocent loss of life, but noone in this world is stepping up and helping the Israelis to rid these extremists whose sole mission is to "wipe them off the map", let alone defeat western civilization. As a result, its too late for Lebanon after Hezbollah become a part of the infrastucture because nobody in this world helped them stop it. The sad truth is that Hezbollah does not care enough about its own people to not place rocket launchers ontop of civilian property or to keep their offices away from civilan land. Clearly there has been more destruction in Lebannon becuase Hezbollah makes their citizens targets. Don't forget that the Israelis dropped leaflets to the Lebonese people before the bombings took place. I don't see Hezbollah informing Israelis -- rather they send their missles over with barbed wire.

This is not a war about Jews and Arabs or the world has Israel to blame for their problems. This is a problem of more and more extremists coming to power in this world and using terror as their way to gain influence. Why? Because they see it works by winning over the fear of people. Israel had nothing to do with the Indian or Spain train bombings. Israel had nothing to do with the slaughter of innocent children in Chechnya. It is the same terrorist factions that make up Hezbollah and they use Israel as an excuse to go on fighting some jihad that calls for the destruction of western civilization and the free world. Thank God to Israel for being the ONLY country to have courage to stand up to these terrorists while the rest of the world does nothing except allow them to gain more power.

Islam has bloody borders. Whereever and whenever islam has come across other religions, it has sought to dominate and obliterate the other religion through any means, rape, murder, terror. all means are valid. It is written very clearly in the Koran. The same point is stressed again and again in the Koran. Do Not tolerate the Infidel the non-muslim. non-muslims are worse than animals, so treat them accordingly. From an objective point of view The Koran (Holy?) is a manual of terror. Other religions also exhort violence but they have found a balance and can co-exist. But Islam? No! When the Mullah stands on the turret and shouts, Allahu akbar........etc. Do You know what it means? It means Allah is the Greatest and there is no other God other than Allah. The Civilized nations have to understand this menace and not just see civilians and children dying in the war. The nations and their people like the Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Syrians, Palestinians etc just want bloodshed. Look at their human rights records, they don't even treat their own people with respect and compassion. Let us not be mistaken by thinking they are also human beings with feelings and thoughts like us. It is time to see things as they are. Israel is existing on a tiny piece of land, but the muslims cannot tolerate even that much. They want to drown it in the sea. However the Israelis must be saluted that they have built a beautiful country in the worst neighbourhood in the world.

There seems to be a sense that people in the Western hemisphere are projecting the sins of their forefathers, the hatred and persecution of Jews, onto the Arabs in general. The implied cause and effect relationship is the following. Because the Arabs hate the Jews, they want to kill them. In the context of the current Israel Lebanon crisis, many who perceive this implied relationship between Jews and Arabs (in this case the Lebanese) as a cause of this war rationalize that the civilian victims, including children that bear absolutely no guilt on this current situation, don't deserve our empathy or understanding. After all, they only got themselves to blame. The International Committee of the Red Cross in Switzerland has recently issued a warning that there is a humanitarian crisis unfolding in Lebanon. Many civilians in Lebanon have no access to food, water, medicines or medical services. Still many turn a blind eye and proclaim that the Lebanese only got themselves to blame. Ironically, this is the same reasoning that some used to rationalize the persecution of the Jews. If we no longer can feel empathy for the suffering of civilian population because we believe that their government should have taken action when it didn't, then we are only one step away from rationalizing genocide.

Let's look at this question of implication. There is a consensus among many people in the West that is the mentality of Arabs that causes all the trouble in the region. Again, there is this implication that somehow it is their fault and they as whole population only have themselves to blame. I'll beg to differ with this rationale for one simple reason. As Jesus said a long time ago, "Those who are without sin shall cast the first stone!" Just as any other population in this world, the Lebanese only have limited means of influencing what their government does. None of us can claim that our governments never made mistakes. They made plenty of mistakes. Fortunately for us, that the mistakes our governments made never had any fatal consequences for us. But if they had fatal consequences for us, most of us would change their tune real quickly. I'll doubt seriously that any of us, while trying to escape the bombardment and trying to protect our children, would sit down and amidst the fear and confusion and blame ourselves. We all would curse the country these bombs are coming from, especially if our kids are hurt and killed Even if we would hold our government responsible, we would certainly ask ourselves why our enemy is causing us, the civilian population so much suffering.

My great-grandfather, who grew up in Germany and was opposed to the Hitler regime, said one thing that puzzled me. "Even though I am at extreme odds with what the Hitler regime did, there was one good thing about him. He provided jobs for people." I believe that it is in this context, that we should try to understand the support of Hezbollah among the Shiite population in the south of Lebanon, which makes up roughly 30 to 40 percent of the population in Lebanon. Hezbollah is not only a militia but also an organization that provides services for this mainly poor population in the South. It is neither the Lebanese government nor any other organization that takes care of these people but Hezbollah. This is part of the reason for the popularity of Hezbollah among the Shiite population in Lebanon. It isn't entirely unimaginable that if we did we face different circumstances; we might have an entire different way of looking at things. So unless I am walking in someone else's shoes, I don't make any judgment calls.

Rev - "But when did the war actually begin..."

The answer is ... about 1917; with the Balfour declaration....

If one wishes to undestand what is going on now in Israel, one must read from the time Turkey lost control of the land at the end of WWI....

If the Lebanese once again blame Israel for their suffering and ignore that this all began with their own citizens who are members of Hezbollah, without governmental approval, starting this war, then they once again will ignore the truth to support their hatred of Israel. Most in the ME ignore the truth in favor or supporting their hate. Hate wins over truth. Hezbollah hits Israel and when Israel hits back they cry and say Israel is being a bully. When Israel hits harder than they hit they say its not fair. These are the arguments of small children with minds unable to think maturely. That is the problem in the ME. Hezbollah knew quite well that when they attacked Israel the Israelies would respond, probably disproportionately, but they would respond. They knew Lebanese civilians would be hurt and killed, yet they started it anyway. And why? Their stated goal is to exchange prisoners. They risked the lives of their countrymen to release prisoners. Some day the people of Lebanon will need to take a hard look at Hezbollah and decide whether it is a good thing to have a heavily armed segment of society dictating the foreign policy of an elected government. They should wonder how firing rockets into Israeli population centers, and not at military targets, is a good military tactic. They should wonder why they could not control Hezbollah and instead the opposite is true. The Lebanese, those great people, must come to a decision, whether to take control of their country or to let hoodlems make decisions on peace and war, life and death, freedom and slavery. Its time for Lebanese to stand up and fight Hezbollah, remove them from their country and take their country back.

But when did the war actually begin, and who is the invisible participant, that is also ultimately responsible for the carnage taking place in Lebanon?

In my opinion, this matter has been an ongoing and sustained effort. The United States has always been a willing invisible participant in the middle East Conflict; to pretend otherwise would be nothing short of a disgrace. The U.S.A. has always been responsible for controlling the balance of power in the Middle-East, just as it has been trying to do to the world outside of North America, which it already mostly controls.

Let's me fair, the United States and Israel have been in continuous war mode against several nations of the world, particularly those nations who do not share the America ideal of Manifest Destiny for the world.

Part of the strategy that has been employed by both nations over the past two decades, has been to keep the enemy disarmed. Had it been the other way around and Hezbollah, Hamas and Lebanon, were all friends of the U.S.A., the opposite would be true in the middle and near-East, the opposite nations would have superior weapons, including WMDs, as well as superior air command. There would be a complete shift in the balance of power.

The United States and Israel are two of the heaviest armed nations in the world, and their arsenals are replete with weapons of mass destruction.

The United States, host of the U.N., and a permanent member of the Security Council, whose members I learned recently, supply 85% of the armaments around the world, has used the United Nations in support of its double-edged policies, in an effort to keep certain nations disarmed, while arming their friends. The U.S.A. is Israel's proxy at the United Nations and in the G8.

The United States' efforts to sanction arms for certain nations, while working to make it illegal for other nations to be armed, is not only a disgrace, however, in my opinion could the actions of the U.S.A. could be interpreted as an act of war by those nations who are being discriminated against..

Why has this double-standard persisted for so long? I don't know. However, I know that Iraq, Iran, Korea and other Persian and Arab nations are on the short list, and are under intense scrutiny, while friendly nations like Israel and others are actually encouraged to have arms, to continue weapons development and to use their weapons, at will. You do not hear the U.S.A. talking about sanctions against Israel. Can you imagine if things were turned the other way around.

Having said that, the United States has become visible at last; The U.S.A. has sent warships into the Mediterranean, and the American Marines have landed. Are they in Lebanon to stop the carnage, that they helped to create, given their assistance and support of Israel over the past two decades? I think no. The Marines and warships are present to evacuate American citizens, so that the carnage can continue. .

How dare the U.S.A. send warships and the marines in to Lebanon, to evacuate American citizens, without doing something to stop the carnage that they are in a major way responsible for?

The kidnapping of two soldiers has no relevance to the current situation.

The current situation started a month earlier, when the following events happened.

A terrorist car bomb blew up in Sidon, Lebanon, killing several people. It is beleived (including by Israeli papers) that Mossad was responsible. (26 May 2006)

Hizbullah then fired rockets at an Israeli Military base in retaliation.

Israeli jets then attacked targets in Lebanon near Beiruit and the Syrian border.

Likud security expert suggests bombing Beiruit, instead of Hizbullah.

Israeli PM Olmert threatens a serious attack Lebanon.

Haifa prepares for war with removal of toxic chemicals from Haifa Port area. Acccording to the Mayor of Haifa, 80% removal had been achieved by last week, then the current attack began.

Terrorism is only a successful tactic against the addled minded nation.

Nations like the US and Isreal who have utter military and technological dominance can crush the weaker yet aggressive Al Qaeda and Hezbolla. Using proportional force and giving them hope or setting up a situation where you have a perpetual level of nearly equal losses is setting up a situation where terrorism can be more effective.

Hamas and Hezbolla started these latest rounds. They are idiots and cry babies for complaining about the scale of the retribution. If they did not want the retribution then they should not have gone to the cross border raids.

Arabs are unable to let go of the losses of yesteryear. Hey we lost the Ottoman empire, ignore the fact that we were on the losing side of WWI. Let us keep screwing our economy and ourselves by attacking massively superior military powers. Terrorism annoys them and can occasionally kill quite a few. Then we can complain to the media and the UN when we end up dying by the bunches.

Maybe we can get a nuke and bomb a western city that will really show them. Oh yeah, Isreal has hundreds of nukes and the US has thousands. But they won't bomb Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine into extinction. And if they do boy will the media and UN wring their hands about it.

Ignore the religious and other side show issues.

War is about power and what can and cannot be done.

Being sneaky and bold only help so much when you are lot weaker. A lot weaker means you lose. Counting on the more powerful getting cold feat or giving up is a stupid strategy. Vietnam War result was a fluke, most of the time that does not happen. Plus N Vietnam still had to endure losses of 20 to 100 times more than the US.

The US and Isreali military and technological advantage is getting wider over the Arab nations.

If the US makes a nuclear weapons and material detector it is game over. Marginal nuclear powers get first striked back into being non-nuclear chumps.

It is not a war on terrorism the idea or the tactic. It is a war on those who use terrorism against your nation and those who support them.

For the US it is Al Qaeda and Taliban and others.

For Israel it is Hamas and Hezbolla plus the X% of the palestinians and Lebonese who support them.

War is about winning. There are no style points. But we don't want to become like Hitler and Nazies. That is right, we do not want to lose.

My agreeing with Rev is not unusual.

I am most decidedly not an apologist for Israel - I wish we were not so demostrative in our [misguided] support.

However, Rev.... Let us remember that Hezbollah, and Hamas, has a political platform. A platform pushed by its leaders... and that platform calls for the annihilation of Israel and all Jews.

Israel has no such formal declaration against Islam. You may say that "actions of Israel speak louder than words" and you would be correct.

HOWEVER.... At least you can take Israel to the negotiating table, not so with Hezbollah or Hamas....

Behavior,

I learned before that there are two primary types of behavior.
1. Endogenous behavior is that behavior which originates from within.
2. Reactive behavior is usually responsive behavior. .

It does not matter what anyone else does to any one us, each of us has the freedom to decide what action we are going to take. The same is true of nations. Most of us were taught, prior to pre-pubescence that responding in-kind to an aggressive sibling was wrong!

One can argue that Israel is simply responding to the actions of Hezbollah and Hamas. On the other hand, who can say that the actions of Hezbollah and Hamas, were not as a result of and in reaction to Israel's behaviors, towards them? Does that make it right to respond in kind? Conundrum?

It sounds like too little kids in the play yard going, nah, nah, nah, nah; he hit me first so I hit him back. Unfortunately the stakes have been raised.

In my opinion, the choice to engage in the murder of innocent people in both Israel and Lebanon, is both reactive and endogenous. Neither group has to kill, maim, wound, injure, displace or cause innocent people to suffer. The choice to engage in murder is a choice that is independent of any thing that took place prior to the decision being made.

If I remember correctly, in our system of Jurisprudence, we borrowed two Latin terms, i.e., mens rhea. And if I recall correctly, mens rhea referred to one's personal choice. Some legal scholar out there I am sure will correct me.

Whoever struck first does not matter matter; doing the proper thing is what really matters!

live within a caste system, the Jews say...but they're not Jews

there is no Jewish nation/race, there's a Jewish ethnicity...

the arabic people have their own form of it, as do the hindu

and christian

whatever dogma you choose to blindly follow, we are the reich

"we are the chosen!"

no, you are the stupid and the too stupid to learn....

.

_unrest_

why is there no progress, in general with Middle Eastern mentality?

I would say, the inequity of the last 20 to 30 years in the Palestine situation...

the animosity from that.

IF the WTC wasn't an inside job, which I see it as being, it would make sense that most of the arabic anger towards the United States would be because of the unfairness in attitude of the United States Government towards people who aren't Israelis'...

favoritism is not something that any psychologist would support unless they were of tribal mentality....each treated according to their merits would make more sense...

'course, after this is over _OIL_ will be worth more, and all of those who invested in and drove gold up to new heights fully two weeks before any conflict broke out, maybe they had some _inside the white house_ information

that _you_ didn't get to share in, and whose sons and daughters lives _will_ be on the line if the fit hits the shan?

the bush party girls? ha ha ha............oh my, dream on.

.

bush is interested in not being held responsible, called to task for his actions...he's a liar, theif, and muderer

the israeli's are _by habit_ and even by creed, the oppressed

it is part of their heritage....

anything that they do, kill, destroy, maim, create a caste system

is in response to being "the oppressed,"

they have a national dysfunction....

the arabic people appear to be simple and dangerous, without blame? no

but if I am supposed to be the smart one, I don't keep hitting my little brother because I can, my parents task me with coming up with a solution or no more television....

mr bush is the parent that plays favorites, and he needs his a ss kicked....he is a reprehensible piece of dog kaka, and an abomination.

.

Len and Gail,

I don't buy the assumption (which everyone seems to take for granted, that Israel is conducting an operation based on self-defense.

If you look at the history of this present wave of violence, you will find that the day *before* the abduction of Corporal Shalit, the Israelis abducted two people from Gaza. And, if you go back further, you will see the so-called disengagement from Gaza, which has actually ended up being an expansion into the West Bank. In other words, the so-called start of the hostilities that everyone likes to take for granted (the capture of Shalit) is actually preceded by the capture of two people from Gaza.

Yet barely anybody even knows about that event. That's the power of propaganda.

I wrote about it in more detail at http://www.whyweworry.com/content/?p=223

You seem to suggest that Israel will "win" in the conventional sense. I wonder whether that is true. I truly wonder how rapidly the IAF will attrit a significant portion of Hezbollah's rocket force. In any event, Hezbollah's existence and intent, as well as a variety of other means to make war against Israel in the near-term, will persist.

Hezbollah is adopting the very edge of conventional military means (rockets) and using them in its war with Israel. But it remains, at heart, an guerrilla force that is most comfortable using insurgent means (terror, suicide bombing, ambush, kidnapping, etc.).

Even if the rocketry from southern Lebanon subsides, these other means will go forward, probably in force to compensate for the degradation in Hezbollah's "conventional" arm.

I doubt the ability of Israel's (or anyone's) airpower to defeat this. Given its previous experience in Lebanon, Israel seems highly reluctant to occupy territory in southern Lebanon. But it is not clear to me how else they will truly be able to staunch Hezbollah's ability to reach Israel, one way or another.

The Hezbollah started this mess; it is the right of the Israeli government to fight back. Israel's conditions set forth are logical...and logic is something the Hezbollah do not understand. The same problem exists in Iraq, Pakistan, Iran and Syria. There is so much hatred between the different sects, continually fighting amongst themselves for centuries, that one doesn't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to understand this way of life is the only life they know...and they are not about to change. Knowledge and logic are foreign to them.
Every day we read of all the vehicle bombings in Iraq...the victims being our troops and innocent civilians. To my simple mind, if a ban was placed on all vehicles in the country except those used by the military...for, say, two weeks, it would be simple enough to eradicate the vehicle bombers as they would be the only unauthorized vehicles in use. If the funds from the oil in Iraq is supposed to rebuild the devastation, then why is al-Queda continuing to sabbatoge the wells? Obvious...they don't want it rebuilt...they prefer to live in the squalor they have created, and let the U.S. taxpayers and the U.N.pay through the nose. This "war" is an unproductive travesty brought about by the egotistical thinking of our own government, leaving our country in financial shambles.
We learned a very important lesson in Japan; then it seems, our government forgot that lesson, i.e., Korea and Viet Nam.

Hizbullah's unprovoked attack on Isreal is rooted in the same rationale as Bush's preemptive war on Iraq. Because they wanted to do it, they attacked without thought of the consequences. The innocent suffer disproportionately. Just like the Bush policy. And just as stupidly self defeating.

Yes, Yes Mr. Arkin...

The Israeli 10,000 feet viewpoint, that one can obliterate a problem, by simply bombing it out of existence, is primitive, arcane and simplistic.

1. You cannot kill an idea with bombs.
2. American Polycrats are finding out that the same holds true in Iraq.
3. The United States and Israel seem to believe that the way to overcome a so-called terrorist is to become a terrorist yourself, and terrorize others. It is the old eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth philosophy.
4. The problem with employing terrorism to resolvea problem, as both the U.S. and Israel, partners-in-crime, are currently doing in two separate nations of the the world, is that at the end of the day, you have not eliminated the stated problem, terrorism; you have simply sanctified terrorism, by becomeing one yourself.
5. Terrorism, by any standard is not a sensible way to resolve differences in opinion.
6. Terrorism will garner attention in the short run and possibly a response; however, the reaction will seldom be the desired.

It is too bad that those members of the American and Israeli plutocracy do not care about the concerns or the needs of their less fortunate sisters and brothers. It would appear that the elite fighting nations would simply prefer to eliminate their detractors, rather than to listen to what they have to say in hopes of securing a long-term peace.

The mis-education of Israeli policymakers, points directly to the example that has been set, lately, by the American policymakers who continue, along with the Christian church, support the murder and destruction of innocent people all around the world.

Israel and the United States, two of the so-called most religous nations in the world, are the two most visible nations in the world who are currently occupying nations and murdering innocent citizens in in those formerly sovereign nations around. Neither of these two nations seems to care about the innocent victims!

When will my own nation grow up!