Thank you William Arkin for a fair article!!!

This is an interesting attempt at shaping public perception.

Response to Liad Malone, Sep 21. I think we disagree as to what takes more courage, to attack Israel or to defend it. Can you name one senator or one representative (other than the 2 or 3 reps of Lebanese background) who complained that an immediate ceasefire was not called for by the US or the UK? I am a Dem who has always supported Israel, but I was sorely disappointed that no Dem politician supported Kofi Annan's call for the ceasefire and his conclusion that Israel's response to the kidnappings to be totally over the top. Israel lost the moral high ground, as far as I am concerned. Here in the UK, Tony Blair has been roundly criticised for backing the US do-nothing approach, but no one has crit Geo Bush. THAT takes courage!

Keep on telling the truth. Be strong.

"If that had been our intention, we could have killed even MORE innocent people!"

Whether this is supposed to be an excuse for killing the people they DID kill, or some kind of "moral relativity" defense, it is a cynical argument that justifies nothing, proves nothing. No evil act is justified in the slightest by the fact that the actor COULD have done something yet worse. Hitler's Reich COULD have killed even MORE innocent people, or tormented the victims even more before they were murdered...is that an excuse?

Besides, it isn't even true. Israel COULD NOT have killed many more people, without losing even the rather implausible deniability upon which they now depend. At some point, even Israel's spinmeisters could no longer, with straight faces, try to put lipstick on this pig.

Matan - "the hizbullah has used civilian buildings to hide it's arsenal of missiles and used civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS."

There is a huge difference between willing participants in a movement and hostages. The Palestinians in the north of Israel are hostages to the good behavior of the other Arab countries.

Do you know why Hassan Nasrallah appologized to the Arab Citizens of Israel during the fighting?

Because Hesb'Allah was firing rockets at the IDF bases and ammo dumps purposefully located right next to Arab villages.

It's one thing to hide weapons among your own people for resistance (you'll read that terror). It is utterly dispicable to do that to second class citizens in your own country simply because they don't have power and hope that if your enemy misses its targets its only "those people" who die.

Oh yeah, and the Israelis have bomb shelters in their towns and villages. The Israelis will not build them for the Israeli-Arabs. The excuse is that there's not enough money to do it.
How much does America give Israel each year?

i must say that the author of this report has said what most lebanese and hizbullah supporters try to hide..the hizbullah has used civilian buildings to hide it's arsenal of missiles and used civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS!the lebaneze people should only blame themselves and their goverament for supporting a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION!they help the terrorist hide themselves in civilian population and the BEG FOR MERCY FROM THE WORLD BECASUE "WE ARE NOT GUILTY!WE ARE INNOCENT!"that bull#$%! they should say "thank you".if any ARAB or EUROPEAN STATE OR EVEN USA was under a terrorist threat near their borders,they would annahilate the entire city from which the attacks were originated.

and to those who say that the lives of two soldiers are less equal to the destruction of a country-i think that if a member of your family would be kidnapped by these terrorists,you will demand the annahilation of the place they originated from.i recommend that you think again-and put yourself in the state of the poor families of the soldier's that were kidnapped.

Joan Said - "I think that some Rabbis found out about this thread, and decided to drown out the truth, with their own warped view of what happened."

I feel like this next post encapsulates fully this sentiment.

Nice to see somebody write about the situation in terms of the glass being half full and without hyocritical screeches. The Arab parties need the courage to admit they have been running a war against Israel since Dec 1947 and if you start a war you have to accept that you will be hit from time to time. The tragedy is that there are no bones of contention between Lebanon and Israel and they could sign peace tomorrow - if the Syrians let the Lebanese do so.

At last, someone to note the obvious truth !!!

Let it be known publically that Israel did not take off its gloves in this episode. With the weapons it holds it could have wiped out the entire city of Beirut, yet it took down single buildings with (I'm sad to say) accuracy and concern for the general population around them.
If it were the other way, as was obvious from the media, Hizb'alla would have not hesitated.
On the one side a country that openly fights to defend itself, on the other militias who use civilians as body shields.
I have a feeling Hezb'lla will not attempt a conflict any time soon. They know, as the rest of the world does, that Israel will next time around come bouldozing through Lebanon, enough to read the stories about the Israeli soldiers wanting to go back and fight and the government stopping them.
Hizb'alla - not the same as it was before, in fact, might be the beginning of the end of it.

Jeez, What happened here. First we have a terrible article, rightfully criticized by people who think, the bottom of the comments. And then about 150 comments thanking Mr. Arkin for his honesty and integrity.
I think that some Rabbis found out about this thread, and decided to drown out the truth, with their own warped view of what happened.

This is what is truly wrong with America today. Any attempt at correcting factual and procedural errors gets snowed under by the folks who believe that Israel (alone in the world) can do no wrong. How many of those supportive posts came from A. NYC or B. Israel?

Yes, Israel has the right to defend herself, but that implicitly implies on her territory. Once you start to defend youself in someone elses land it is either called an attack or an invasion. And please keep in mind that other countries have that very same right.

finally a fair reporterm sticking to facts!

from the early 1930s arabs are shooting there own legs, while israel hand is for peace!

Mr. Arkin,
I support your views. Indeed I came to similar conclusions myself.
Alex, Tokyo

Dear Mr. Arkin,

You are a breath of fresh air in a stinking world where we see too much fear to tell it how it really is.

I hold you in high esteem!! Please don't change!!!

In a world that has forgotten the holocaust and is again blaming the Jews for all the wrongs in the world when Israel is just defending itself - and even the press is found to be changing photos and changing the truth to fit shocking headlines THANK YOU for telling it like it is Thank you for being honest !!!!

Good stuff, Mr. Arkin.

You have my support.

Mr. Arkin

Thank you for being honest! it is rare these days...

It is rare these days to read an article of someone's outlook that is truly individual and not just the same garbage all the major media players carry.

Thank you for being honest and acting with integrity.

or actually several, by any courageous jews or arabs.........

are you all intent on "making an impression," while appearing to remain "fair," please.........grow up, answer these questions:

1. what happened to the two important soldiers that were kidnapped?

2. does Israel think it's making any friends in the area? what does it think the several million Arabic and Persian neighbors will do when there's no oil in the neighborhood?

Serbia/Bosnia........retribution? most likely

sometimes winning leaves a bad taste in the losers mouth that doesn't go away unless it tastes revenge.........

the cycle of revenge, is kinda predictable and old fashioned.......but the bush administration and complicit congress like_it

islam o fat cysts.........beware of them, the president has them bad, and they might be catching........

point blank: winning is irrelevant, living is _most_ relevant, and living a quality life is what makes living most relevant

IF YOU NEIGHBORS ARE NOT HAVING QUALITY LIVES BECAUSE OF YOU, THEY WILL TRY TO CHANGE THAT!

it doesn't go away.

.

my side, I am so unbiased I only have _one_ side......

everyone not on my side is a liar!!!!!

Thank you for telling it like it is. You have courage and integrity. It would be nice if reporters from the UK (ie Guardian) took a page from your book. It would be nice if ANY reporters did it!

Thank you for telling it like it is. You have courage and integrity. It would be nice if reporters from the UK (ie Guardian) took a page from your book. It would be nice if ANY reporters did it!

Why is it so difficult to understand?

- The Israeli Army used about 7,000 air strikes at Lebanon using a direct modern munition.
- The Hizbullah fired about 4,000 rockets that striked towns and villages almost none at military bases. All the rockets used were directed handly by a map and an eye not a computer.
-For about 3 weeks at the end of the war the Hizbullah kept reporting that they have only 54 dead warriors.
-THe Israeli army reported about at least 600 Hizbullah dead warriors including names and details of about 300 of them.

Now the Israeli army is thoroughly invetigates why they did not come to these consequences in shorter time.
The Hizbullah is praising their victory, even though another strong U.N. resolution against their movement was issued and after they had ten times deaths and tens times a destruction at Lebanon.
Can anybody have an upside down logic against these ? Or being a blind goat ?

How "jounalisticly honest". First the ISRAEL FIRST column is written by the Fifth Columnist, then www.diyus.org organises the supporting chorus of "Israel Uber Alles" Traitors to support their fellow TRIBESMAN.

Hey Mr. Arkin, aren't you expelled by now from the world of journalism? Such "pro-Israel" articles as this one could make a journalist very lonely. An outcast. As a Jewish-American, you're supposed to show just how much American you are by CRITISIZING Israel, not defending it. Otherwise, one might think this is just Jewish propaganda. The anti-Semites...sorry, the "anti-Israelis" are determined to finish it this time, once and for all! It's easier this time, the Jews are already concentrated in the same country. A very small one too, so at least the phase of concentrating them from a whole continent can be skipped. By permitting Iran to achieve the bomb, they can all be nuked, gas free...
Israel is like their own biblical Samson: Strong, but tied down so it can't defend itself while poked, stabbed, pain-inflicted and ridiculed to the joy of the Philistines. Remember: At some point, when about to be killed, Samson chose to take his enemies with him.
The Philistines are long gone now, the Israelites are still here!

Good summary of the war

Dear Mr. Arkin,
Thank you very much for your courage and honesty!

Martin cohen is taken back by anti semtitism.Martin what is your view of the millions of Palestinian refugees,please let us hear the truth.Tel us how they are all terrorists just like the American Indians where savage to fight back against the occupation.

What??? No mention of the U.N.? Where were all the observers when the Hezbola fighters were setting up rockets and munition piles close to U.N. positions? Where were they when all the intricate & extensive tunnels were being constructed? Surely reports of all this activity were sent to U.N. headquarters. I for one would love to see them or at least read about them in the papers.

For some reason I am still surprised when I see how so many people have no problem backing up terrorist organizations, while any Israeli attempt at retaliation is condemned as war crimes...
Thank you for a sincere report.

Thank you Mr. Arkin for travelling to Lebanon and Israel and reporting your observations. It is apparent that other readers don't want to hear the truth so they attack the press unjustifiably. Unfortunately, it is reporters like yourself who unfairly take the flack of anti-Israeli feelings.

It blows me away how the anti-Israeli faction hides their anti-Semetic feelings behind their rhetoric. In 60 years, Israel has created an incredibly successful country without oil revenues. In the same period, the oil rich countries and their allies have created oil dictatorships that have caused the uprising of the have nots and religious radicals.

Please continue to write what you see. I am one of your readers who is thankful for American freedom of the press and I will fight for your right to continue to write as you see fit.

Mr. Arkin,
thank you for stating the facts. I would only disagree with your analysis that both sides won something and lost something. Hizbollah had everything to gain from this war, and nothing to lose. If they won, they'd gain "street cred" and destroy Israel. If they lost, they could exploit world compassion for the plight of the "poor" Lebanese. Israel was damned either way. If they won, they'd be condemned as vicious and brutal. If they lost, there'd be a few sad thoughts about all those dead Jews, and life would go on.
To some degree Israel DID lose this war: they did not fight back hard enough, pulled out too soon (due to international pressure) and still has not recaptured her soldiers.
The world should stop treating the Arabs like children who are not responsible for their actions, and start demanding accountability. Those who are accomplices to crimes are guilty just as the perpetrators of those crimes. Lebanon appealed to the world, saying they couldn't be expected to rid itself of HIzbollah, but when Israel struck back in self-defense, the PM stated for the public record that Lebanese soldiers were willing to die to fight off Israel.
Israel doesn't parade her dead around for media purposes -- that's sick and inhumane -- but that doesn't mean her dead don't count. "If you prick me, do I not bleed?"

WOW----- some of those lower comments on this article are pretty viscious. The Anti -Israel, and Anti- Jewish sentiment from many of these readers are just plain scary. The lies and distortions of the truth coming from enemies of Jews and the Jewish State always seems to amaze me. How one can shift the blame for what happened to Lebanon onto Israels shoulders is just plain psychotic. If the Lebanese Govt had no idea that a guerilla army had infaltrated and taken over their borders, civilians, and govt- that would be one thing. But if the Leb. Govt. knew what was going on (and there is no way that a rogue army could enlist tens of thousands of civilian troops, purchase and import millions of dollars worth of weapons-with huge missiles that can't be hidden, and set up "humanitarian shops" in every city in Leb- w/o someone in a high position noticing)then they deserve every beating that they recieved in the war. Even if it meant that children died (which is very unfortunate). They were all pawns in a sick perversed plan of radical Islam. Those who cannot look past the propoganda and lies of people and countries working harder than ever in order to shift the blame onto a country just doing what it must to survive and protect it's citizens(ISRAEL)from an ongoing attempt to spill Jewish blood -- must have their eyes and brains examined!

Thanks Mr Arkin for uncovering one of the many layers of untruth that the West has soaked up about the middle East. Lets really wonder what would have happened if the military resources were switched- as Mr Arkin muses, would Hizbollah have been as restrained as Israel, or would they simply have "done all they could?"

Dear Mr. Arkin,
It's so easy to write an article condemning Israel, that I stand shocked at seeing someone actually writing the truth!
and now we hear that you are being threatened. When will the developed countries awaken and understand that the Muslims are conducting a Jihad against all non- muslims in the world and they won't stop till they have anuhilated us all!?!

Let's hope at least more concentious journalists will continue writing the truth!

Yours truly,
Mauricio

Thanks for your courage in saying it like it is! You are no doubt, receiving tons of hate mail from those who crave propaganda, and abhor the truth. Keep up your good work.....

Woe it's refreshing to see someone write an honest article with the truth thru and thru.

bravo!!

Here's a little tip. If you want Israel's plight to seem more credible than stop monopolizing the media.

Stop trying to manipulate everything!!!

Thank you Mr. Arkin for describing things as they really are. We definitely need more of you in today's media.

Right on

A rare bird, this Arkin. He knows how to stick to the facts! How odd! He tells the truth; how refreshing.

The Hezbollah, the Lebanese proxy for Iran, did all it knew how to do, while Israel used but a fraction of its capabilities. And we can understand now that the outcome was that "most of what was destroyed was Hezbollah's assets."

A rare bird, this Arkin. He knows how to stick to the facts! How odd! He tells the truth; how refreshing.

The Hezbollah, the Lebanese proxy for Iran, did all it knew how to do, while Israel used but a fraction of its capabilities. And we can understand now that the outcome was that "most of what was destroyed was Hezbollah's assets."

Well done on the real deal reporting!!!
You are an asset to the TRUTH!!
best wishes

You are to be admired for courageously reporting in a non-biased manner the recent Israel-Hizballah conflict. If only more reporters did not cave in to the terrorists' skewed representations of their "victories" and what they term lack of humanitarianism on the part of Israel the world would certainly benefit from honest reporting. Thank you for a well though out and clearly presented article.

Thank you Mr. Arkin for reminding us of what many people seem to have so conveniently forgotten.

1. Israel was responding to an attack against it.
2. Lebanon was harboring a terrorist organization on its soil against the will of many of its citizens.
3. Lebanon refused to disarm militant groups within its borders(Hezbollah) despite international mandates for it to do so.
4. Isreal acted to the best of its abilities to bring no harm to innocent civilians all while attempting to target terrorists hiding amongst those same innocent civilians.
5. Any claim of the numbers claiming to be the "facts" about the number of civilians killed in Lebanon are impossible to calculate at best and lies at worst. This is due to the nature of Hezbollah, a guerrilla-terrorist organization that is made up of plain clothed individuals that are "civilians" one minute and firing rockets loaded with ball-bearings the next.

Lebaneese terrorosts kill arab kids and film the bodies to make the impression on the world. This is a new step compared to what palestinian arabs did in Jenin: pulled together all already dead bodies and put them in one "mass grave". What should be their next step? The world is being fulled by the bunch of morans.

It seems that lying is a gene in the Arab Cells: The war started because Lebanese citizens (Hezbollah) crossed the border killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers and mocked when Israel demands their return. The Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese Government they helped the terrorists build their fortification under civilian's houses and thus use them as human shield: Pictures of killed civilians- not their courage- was the Hezbollah main weapon. The other one was deliberate shelling of civilians. The Hezbollah "fighters", lost and fled in any direct combat with the Israeli soldiers.

What we in Israel hear day and night from the Hams Government and Hezbollah (and Iran) is that they will never accept Israel existence.
So stop preaching to Israel about peace, before that convince these bloody regimes to accept our existence

Unike so many ideologically motivated commentators, Mr. Arkin presents an informed and sophisticated analysis of a tragic war. He and the Washington Post are to be congratulated.

i loved this article, there is another side to every story. to the comments at the bottom, you have been brainwashed by the media into thinking israel is a strong hearless country which has nothing better to do than to bomb innocent civilians. WAKE UP! there is another side to every story and i am glad it has been shown here. many thanks to mr.arkin

Finally some one that has the nerve to stand up to those tugs that are trying to hijack Islam. Hizbollah is no more than a common criminal organization that uses Islam as a cover for their activities. Well done.

Excellent factual journalism - there should be many more like you around - several journalists can learn a lot from you

Finally, a reporter who actually visited BOTH countries and witnessed the true nature of the terrorist war that Hezbollah waged against Israeli civilians. Mr. Arkin provides a refreshingly honest report withouth being influenced by Hezbollah's fraudulent spin doctors.

William M. Arkin - integrity and courage are 2 rare qualities - bless you for having both!

Thanks for your support

Yes sir. This is correct. Hizbollah are terrorists Israel must always win in its firrst and last line of defense.

Thank you for fair reporting...finally!

Mr. Arkin,

My compliments to you on writing an article that "tells it like it is."

Hopefully, via fair and balanced reporting, the world will understand what Israelis (and the Jewish Nation as a whole) have endured for so long.

All the Best!

Finally a fair reporter, for some people you may show the true but they don't want to see it. keep telling the true...

Thank you for publishing this honest, fair and balanced piece of reporting by Mr Arkin. I look forward to reading tomorrow's article by him.

With praise for the courage to speak truth to the powers who stereo-type and hate- to those who judge Israel wheter she acts or restrains herself. Thank you - you are a lonely voice of truth.

Great Article! I am with you here.

I am greatful to read a honest reporting as MR arkin wrote.It`s time come that the world wakes up to see what those ARABS intend to do..HAVING ALL OF US THE FREE WORLD CUPTURE.thanks to MR bush for all what he is doing..WAKE UP AMERICA stop caring if they love you...care about your childreen and your future.STAND STRONG...GOD BLESS

Israel was attacked and had every right to defend themselves. They won because the world now realizes that Hezbolah is a terrorist organization with support from Syria and Iran. It was a real eye opener for the world to see the amount of rockets at their disposal.

Thanks for your brutally frank comments on the war that Israel won.

Hurrah for your honest reporting. keep it up

Mr. Arkin,
With so much biased information and reporting it is truly a pleasure to read a fair and balanced article like this.

It can only help to calm things down. Lies simply spread hatred.

Keep up the good work!

Pamela Levene

This is weird.. after reading the article I see nothing but messages expressing their positive feedback on this finally 'balanced' article. But when I scroll down, the picture completely changes, and the 'true' feedback is shown, lambasting the BS of this pro-zionist author.

Seems to me that the Washington Post is having a hard time gathering pro-zionist feedback (and putting it on top?? I hope not). I bet they wish we were back to the 80's, when Israel could just bomb the sh*t out of any country and then get newspapers to publish only their version of what happened, and why.

So long live the Internet!! The truth is finally out there, no matter how hard you fight against it, Mr. Arkin!

Mr. Arkin
I praise you with all my heart for being courageous and with integrity. So much false information was published even in very important papers and TV stations about the war in Lebanon and the real facts leading to it. It is very refreshing to see one Righteous journalist in the Sodom world of journalism. Thank you for bringing the truth.

Dear Mr. Arkin,

I applaud your courage and precision in exposing the truth about the latest Lebanon's war. American people need to know the facts:

1) Aggression against Israel initiated by Lebanon led to the current conflict
2) Lebanon suffered the consequences
3) The Israeli response was absolutely justified and proportionate
4) Many countries are influenced by the Arab oil, will never treat Israel fairly, therefore, this country needs our support

Thank you again for telling the truth.

There are many facets of this terrible conflict that are not subject to factual analysis - questions of who as a result of some past events has a "right" to do X or Y, and so on. If we are to work our way out of this mess it is necessary that we attend correctly to those facets of the situation that *can* be analyzed factually. This article correctly attends to one such factual facet -- the difference between the targeted violence of the Israelis, focused on and limited to Hizbullah's areas, on the one hand; and the purposely indiscriminate violence of Hizbullah, which sought not to *limit* "collateral damage" but for whom "collateral damage" (and the fear of it) was the weapon of choice. A courageous and necessary article.

This is sophisticated and objective journalism. Thank you for providing quality coverage on the middle east.

At last a reporter which is not afraid of writing the truth.
Thank you very much for your honesty!

Your article is amazing... This is the first report or article I have seen after the war. All other Journalists seemed to have forgotten about what happened, and are not really interested in the truth. Israel was accused of Indiscriminate and disproportionate force.. Amazing just look at what the Arab terrorists do to their own brothers, sisters and children on a day to day basis ... that is indiscriminate killing. Israel was unbelievable discriminating in its targets and really minimised the destruction
Great article... lets hear more truth about what really happens in the region..

Thank you for balanced article that cover honestly both sides.

Thank You for your great and true Article!
Just ignore those brainwashed ****** whose comments just remind us of what work lies ahead!
Keep up the good work!
Greetings

Thanks for a very acurate and non biased report.I add to all of that was said, that the big problem in this war is the sem problem that have the police to fight criminals!The police has a recognizable car, uniforms et. The criminals don´t!
Israel target militants. They targets civilians. They are the criminals. We have to think a better way to deal with this.

I think this was a good analysis of the situation. Actually, after this war, Hezbollah's "gains" will be diminished every time the legal government of Lebanon (that now has a vested interest in keeping peace) extends its authority in the south.

Nice reporting!

To Mr. William Arkin:

I was afraid the day would never come when a journalist would report accurately and without bias on the Hizbolla - Israel war. Maybe you will wake some people up to the truth.
You are a courageous man. Don't allow yourself to be silenced.

Mr. Arkin,

Please don't be deterred by the resistance you receive to telling the truth. Some people would rather live in an imaginary world than to face things as they really are. Since Israel was so fair towards the enemy, our own reserve soldiers paid a dear price, as did our citizens of the North. Our planes could have done more damage if we didn't stick to principles of not playing dirty.

May there be many more truth seekers out that like yourself.

Most useful idiots commenting here have the islamic propaganda virus.

Hope you get a cure one day.

Mr. Arkin's commentary is insightful and correct in its assessment of the results of the war. Hezbollah hides and mixes its fighters and armaments among the civilian population. It can only be assumed that Hezbollah is more concerned with gaining advantage in the arena of public opinion than in protecting the people of Lebanon. By placing armaments in civilian buildings and firing weapons from the roofs of those buildings, it invited the bombing of civilian targets. This, of course, seems not to matter to Hezbollah and their autocratic regime. I again thank Mr. Arkin for being perceptive and honest.

That was the most accurate article about the Lebanon war I have read to date. Finally someone who isnt afraid to tell the truth. Great job Mr. Arkin

This was easily one of the most objective analyses I've read yet about the passed conflict.

Incredibly factual and balanced.

Please sir dont let the leftist Islamofascist Sympathizers sway your reporting. Fear is their most preffered weapon of choice. Beckoning to them, lowers our society to their own levels.

Regards

A very good point! I agree with every word, keep writing such good collumns

Not one of the 4000+ rockets that struck Israel was intended for any purpose but to inflict maximum civilian casualties. Meanwhile, if the Israelis had wanted to wipe out the entire population of Southern Lebanon with carpet bombs or worse, they could have done so. They did not. This report is too close to the Truth for purveyors of anti-Israeli venom to tolerate. 'How long must we listen to the lies of prejudice?'

Well, thank goodness someone, Mr Arkin, is not frightened to look with the eye of truth on this situation. In all of Israel's history she has not once taking action without first being sorely provoked. Of course we should all support Israel as a country; she stands between us and the return of the Dark Ages.

Bravo to Arkin for telling the truth about Lebanon. The war was certainly not the best thing Israel ever did, but the "compassionate" whinings of Hezbollah groupies should not obscure the central points. Hezbollah is a vicious and genocidal group that has subverted the Lebanese government in violation of UN Resolution 1559. The government permitted and supported naked aggression that had no justifiable cause. Hezbollah hid among civilians intentionally, leading to the large numbers of "civilian" casualties.

Nobody asked how many of the Lebanese dead were Hezbollah or their "civilian" helpers, who operated rocket launchers on telephoned orders from Hezbollah.

Ami Isseroff
MidEastWeb for Coexistence

So what if we (Israel) didn't do all that we could? we still committed war crimes. The use of cluster and phosphorous bombs against civilian targets is one horrible example.

See
http://www.yeshgvul.org.il

Ofer N
Israeli citizen

finnaly a the truth.
thank you for not missleading the public.

or actually several,

1. what happened to the two important soldiers that were kidnapped?

2. does Israel think it's making any friends in the area? what does it think the several million Arabic and Persian neighbors will do when there's no oil in the neighborhood?

Serbia/Bosnia........retribution? most likely

sometimes winning leaves a bad taste in the losers mouth that doesn't go away unless it tastes revenge.........

the cycle of revenge, is kinda predictable and old fashioned.......but the bush administration and complicit congress like_it

islam o fat cysts.........beware of them, the president has them bad, and they might be catching........

point blank: winning is irrelevant, living is _most_ relevant, and living a quality life is what makes living most relevant

IF YOU NEIGHBORS ARE NOT HAVING QUALITY LIVES BECAUSE OF YOU, THEY WILL TRY TO CHANGE THAT!

it doesn't go away.

.

Israel will lose.they have a double standard. Other countries must be accepting of other cultures yet we can be prejudiced pigs in the Nazi mold.We have the only nation on Earth with an established religion that in the US we woud deplore.

Try to fight Hezbollah again you cowardly thieves. Get out of Hebron. The world and the US will eventually learn of the treachery of your plastic state

Try to fight Hezbollah again you cowardly thieves. Get out of Hebron. The world and the US will eventually learn of the treachery of your plastic state

If Israel is so self sufficient and powerful and noble why don't they get off the US tit

Paul, it is obvious that you are the psychotic one, as well as being completely morally depraved by the fact that you support fascist islamic terrorists.

Disgraceful piece of writing. israel still got its thieving, psychotic arse kicked though.

Sean D says: ...many of these [Israeli cluster bombs were] apparently deliberately in civilian areas?

Listen Sean, Hezbollah hid "deliberately" in civilian areas. Blame them.

Are you aware that many of the cluster bombs were dropped in the last few days before the ceasefire came into effects? Many of these apparently deliberately in civilian areas?
Is this the action of a "responsible", precise, non-brutal army, secure in the knowledge that they "won"?

Answering Dimitri: So far, 99% if not 100% of all suicide bombers have been Muslims. It is indeed Muslim fanaticism that causes this brain-washing.

I see that we have some conspiracy theorists. To set the record straight: Hezbollah not only kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers but they murdered several others. They then launched their rocket attack all before Israel returned fire.

Posted by: James Buchanan

"We did blast a country over terrorism. A country which refused to turn them over to us. Now, did we do it right? Probably not, we should have had a hundred or so thousand troops on the ground to do it."
Afghanistan was justifiable to blast due to the al qaeda presence and support. Iraq, are you still falling for that BS!

"Saudi Arabia. They did enough to denounce him. Al Qaida has no safe haven in Saudi, so blasting them isn't required. They haven't been demonstrated to be actively involved with terrorism, accused yes, implied yes, but nothing concrete enough to take to court."

This is your original quote:
"Its a package deal, you don't salad pick. When another country through action or inaction, or some combination, offends your nation enough to attack, you blast it until its capacity to harm you is destroyed or it surrenders. That means its government is fair game, its military is fair game, as well as its people and its structures. Nothing is sacred."

Saudi nationals were involved in 911, so much so it can be easily debated that al qaeda staffing for the attack was Saudi. Where your argument falls apart is where we invaded Iraq, where there was no 911 connection and did little or nothing to Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's still teach jihad in public schools and this is terrorism 101. They also export text books that teach jihad to other Islamic Nations.

"Florida. Ridiculous. Again, unwitting involvement. To say nothing of my previously stated belief you handle your own a lot differently than anyone else."

Florida was a joke, get a sense of humor.

"Afghanistan. Openly sheltered him. This was a line cross. Consequences were suffered, life has moved on."

Actually life has not moved on, the Taliban is on the upswing and we are still bogged down in an occupation. But look at the bright side, agriculture is thriving in Afghanistan, largest crop on record!

Answer this simple question:

two Israeli soldiers were captured and they leveled Beirut. What happened to the Israeli soldiers? Were they captured by Mossad as claimed so that Israeli people could have an outlet for their anger? What is the truth. You were there, did you ask these questions............you remember what triggered the events............what is the truth?

that's all be settled right? What's the fricking answer disinformationists?

WHERE ARE THESE TWO SOLDIERS?

WHAT THE EFF HAPPENED..............IF IT WASN'T ABOUT THE SOLDIERS THEN

SAY THAT..................

It certainly took the heat off of Iraq didn't it?

October Surprise moved ?

manure...we did blast a country that refused to turn them over to us.......

and what was Negropontes' position in Central America?

And how did the Presidente' of Chile die on George H.W. Bushes watch _in_ WASHINGTON DC while he was director of the CIA.......and why is he now on the board of directors of a Chilean Mining Company?

So the Saudis were trained in Florida? That's where George H.W. Bush got his start, trying to get Castro asassinated using the Mafia and CIA, so his Uncle Walker could get his West Indies Spice Industries Sugar Plantations back right? And isn't that where Goss is from, and Jeb is the Governor there..........and didn't Katherine Harris say that GAWD TOLD HER TO GIVE THE ELECTION TO BUSH NO MATTER HOW MANY VOTES GORE HAD?

yes mr buchanan................let's open that can of worms as long as you're making up some

goat manure to spread on the brains of the American People.......let's here what the cloven hoofed one has to say through you tonight.

.

I have to say, that this is probably the most acurate and balanced article I've read on the israeli hezbollah cinflict!!! great job !!

I was reading the Washington post during this war and i must recognise a certain accuracy. But who is this guy, Mr Arkin a journalist, a lobbyst? I am actually in Beirut.. he is talking about the accuracy of the Israeli laser bombing..I agree they were accurate but they flattened a complete part of the city where the Hezbolla was located with dozens of civilians buildings, in the South, thousands of houses have been destroyed,bridges, schools, all chiaa villages have been attacked and sometime turn to rubble... does the attack of a military patrol justify all this destruction?, especially when you realise that there are some lebanese prisonners in the Israeli jails for more than 30 years, what about the Cheba farms, a disputed territory? Is that really the war against terror to justify a war against your neighbour? Intentionnaly and subversivly diverting the legitimate American war waged against terrorism to a regional and local purpose, that is what the best American ally is doing..deserving the Americans interests in the world, rising more and more hatery and incomprehension, that is not, in my point of view the interest of the USA, their real reliable allies are the freedom and the liberty, a fair peacebrocker role, that what would be the most powerfull weapon the US can ever mastered, that would be The major blow of terrorism.

"I recognize that one can't analyze what happened in Lebanon in the 34-day, Israel-Hezbollah war without walking into a minefield."

Or walk around southern Lebanon, or Beiruit without walking into one too. That's if what the comPost reported today is accurate about the cluster bombs, and Israeli minefields.

Why won't the Israelis give the UN and the Lebanese the maps of the minefields or of the launching coordinates of the cluster bombs? It's not proprietary info.

My guess. . . they haven't left yet, and have no plans for staying out.

Robert,

While I'm not jewish, I attended the Darfur rally in Wasington DC and was amazed to see how many overtly jewish groups there were (the ones who cover their head). Washington will always play politics, but the jewish people have rallied behind the Darfar campaign along with many chruch groups.

========Now James, one HUGE problem you over looked. It's easy to rant and rave over a terrorist state, but the undeniable reality, these terrorists groups are not governments of countries or counties at all, they can even flow from one country to another with relative ease. According to your way of thinking, after 911, we should have taken out Saudi Arabia, for the involvement of its citizens. And what the heck, everyone knows there are terrorists in Pakistan; why not blow the hell out of them. But wait, there's more, weren't the 911 terrorist pilots trained in the United States in Florida, lets blow the crap out of Florida!========

We did blast a country over terrorism. A country which refused to turn them over to us. Now, did we do it right? Probably not, we should have had a hundred or so thousand troops on the ground to do it.

Saudi Arabia. They did enough to denounce him. Al Qaida has no safe haven in Saudi, so blasting them isn't required. They haven't been demonstrated to be actively involved with terrorism, accused yes, implied yes, but nothing concrete enough to take to court.

Florida. Ridiculous. Again, unwitting involvement. To say nothing of my previously stated belief you handle your own a lot differently than anyone else.

Afghanistan. Openly sheltered him. This was a line cross. Consequences were suffered, life has moved on.

You want the world to act in sudan,move Israel there and see how fast we move.There is a genocide happenning in the Sudan,but do you think congress cares.But you kill two jewish soldiers and all hell breaks out.How many women have been raped in the Sudan.Yet we give ten billion a year to the only democracy in the middle east.A country that claims to be self supporting.Its not about morality its about power,and who has it,do you think a jewish congressman is more moral.Do you hear them say they support the women who are suffering in the Sudan.No they fly to Israel and proclaim there love,its a joke,no race is more moral than another,so Arkin yopu can come down from your moral high box.And please keep your propaganda in favour of Israel for the many think tanks that offer you expert middle east advice.

You want the world to act in sudan,move Israel there and see how fast we move.

Dimitry wrote:
--So it would seem that you agree with our president that we are fighting the 21st century version of fascism or communism. If one accepts this definition of the enemy, then the presidents strategy of invading Iraq, or any other ME country seems not unreasonable. If our enemy is the brainwashed masses of religious fanatics that can't be reasoned with, only death, destruction and forcible re-education (de-brainwashing) may have a chance of success. One would have to argue for more escalation of this kind of world-wide conflict, as the president's current effort are decidedly small-scale.--

The Taliban rule of Afganistan is a good example of how this type of fanaticism can be mainstreamed as was done in Germany and Japan. Were all Germans and Japanese fanatics? No. You only needed enough and a culture to produce them to overthrow a government and institute the fanatic's rule. Once the Taliban were removed many Afgans were relieved. The Afgan war was a just war since the Taliban supported Al Qaida which attacked us. As was found in Germany and Japan, not all the population bought into the fanaticism.

Bush's invasion of Iraq however was not an invasion of a fanatical government. However it has drawn those who agree with the fanatical elements of Islam to the fight and has pushed many who were on the fence to agree with the fanatical elements of radical Islam. Iraq was a bad mistake from the invasion to the current occupation, in almost every way. But most of the insurrgents are Iraqi nationalists, not fanatics. Al Qaida removed Zarquawi because he attacked Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and beheaded Muslims. Al Qaida has to be careful to make it look like their struggle is with the west and not the muslims or ME governments, which is their true target.

The president would be correct if we were faced with fanatical governments, but we are not. Iran comes closest but its government is diverse and its population openly hostile to the government. I don't see Iran as a threat to its population, other governments in the region nor the US. However groups like Hezbollah have shown how the fanatics can impose their rule even within a soverign country. Their "acceptance" by the population should be studied. Bush is not correct that these fanatics are just like those who ruled Germany and Japan, but he is correct that fanaticism is a danger to civilized society and the world needs to recognize it and stand up to it. Too bad he's an idiot and has no idea how to do it effectively. And how communism comes into this I have no idea. Probably just a little extra jolt to energize the republican base.

"Sunnis and Shia behead themselves."

Wow, talk about dedicated. And flexible.

I fear that the "occupation in Isreal" is only an excuse to wage war against a non muslim culture. Sunnis and Shia behead themselves, cut off arms and legs, and massacre each other in their quest for power throughout the ME. Israel has become a thriving center for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equality between genders in a region where totalitarian regimes drain the resources of their own civilians to advance their own theocratic indoctrination. It is unfortunate that moderates, as in Lebanon, become victims to these dictators. While they clearly cannot speak out against their own suppression, they can unite against anti-Israel/anti-western values. We have seen the response to freedom of speech alone, whether it be cartoons or a lecture on religion and tolerance that sparks bombings, burning of effigies, and chants of Death to the west (and Israel which had nothing to do with either). This is the unfortunate front that Israel has faced since it was created -- an unwillingness to accept and co-exist with a system that challenges their own. In the ME, where people can't rise up against their own way of life, it is rallying behind the Palestinian cause that unites them. But it goes beyond poverty, as we saw with britains 7/7 bombings and recent plot -- they were middle class. It is hatred that is indoctrinated into people, that IS brainwashing that is carried out within their own community as being "acceptable" and a rallying "resistance" that stops efforts at negotiations for peace. Despair for both Israelis and Palestinians has led to more violence. It doesn't matter who started what -- Until the dictators who perpetrate unrest by teaching hate, suppress civilan liberties, and then go on to advocate violence as a "solution" are overthrown, there will be no peace.

The arabs are looking for anything to call a victory because the Isralis have beaten them so badly over the years. Couple that with the economic, social, and political successes and maturity islam is jealous. Islam is a joke. It creats nothing economically, polically, or socially. Instead it tells you to die to go to heaven. The arabs looks so desparte looking for anything to call a victory. What a joke. What is worst is the world needs to understand there has to be a decisive winner and loser so another round is going to happen. This time israel will need to wipe them out.

==Most of why we cannot understand the suicide bomber or those who send these young men on their missions is a cultural one. You may not be able to get your mind around it but how can you get your mind around a father sending his son on a suicide mission, a mother screaming at her son for not dying in a battle or celebrating when she hears her son was killed in battle, or dancing in the streets when hijacked planes of innocent people fly into buildings killing thousands of innocent people. What I have determined is that the Islamic fanatic mindset is close to the WW2 Japanese fanatic mindset. Close manipulation which we would probably call brainwashing is partly to blame, but its not your classic brainwashing where someone is forcefully indoctrinated. Its a brainwashing by friends and family. A cult type brainwashing where the victim accepts the brainwashing and the result. It is an acceptable part of society, as evil and normal as when the Nazis were exterminating the Jews or the East Germans were happily spying on their neighbors or the Japanese happily flying their planes into enemy ships or killing civilians in China to "save" them.==

Oh, my. So it would seem that you agree with our president that we are fighting the 21st century version of fascism or communism. If one accepts this definition of the enemy, then the presidents strategy of invading Iraq, or any other ME country seems not unreasonable. If our enemy is the brainwashed masses of religious fanatics that can't be reasoned with, only death, destruction and forcible re-education (de-brainwashing) may have a chance of success. One would have to argue for more escalation of this kind of world-wide conflict, as the president's current effort are decidedly small-scale.

==And in case you misinterpret the title, the West is the savages to be managed. It shows they do think and live in a different world from the one we understand in the West, and why they must be defeated. Their ultimate goal by the way is not the destruction of the US, but to instead just kick us out of the ME where we are seen as propping up the ME governments. They believe their failures in the past to overthrow governments has been due to superpowers (US and USSR) propping up the local governments.==

That seems like an outrageous goal, isn't it? To drive us out of Muslim lands? Never! We have a natural right to have a strong military, political and social presence in that part of the world!

So, anyway, your asnwer to what could make you a suicidal terrorist would seem "nothing". You simply can't imagine a set of circumstances whereby you would decide to kill your enemies civilians along with yourself. Is that correct?

I generally have a problem with explanation of human behaviour that relies on unreplicatable, unanderstandable qualities unique to a group of other humans, qualities that can't be understood by others. It's akin to explaining physical phenomena with magic.

george wrote:
--The Israeli goverment is full of corruption and crime not only cause of the war in Lebanon but also locally in Israel for sexual harrassment, incompetence and greed. Even the Israeli press is reporting this.--

Too bad Hezbollah has no free press to report on its activities, good and bad. The fact that Israeli failings are being reported while Hezbollahs are not should tell you something about each side in this conflict. Get a clue. Hezbollah is a dictatorial terrorist organization that is run more like the mafia than a government. And who elected Nasrallah anyway? Can he be removed from power through democratic means? What would happen to you if you stood in South Beirut and shouted out that Nasrallah was an idiot for starting this war? The people of Lebanon live in fear of Hezbollah while the Israelis, who may disagree with their government and its leaders, do not live in fear of them. That is the strength of democracy and why this islamic fanaticism will eventually be defeated by democracy, because all people want to live free of oppression.

Dimitry wrote:
--One way to deal with it is to imagine the perpetrators as subhuman brainwashed robots so unlike yourself, that even an idea of compromise or negotiations seems crazy. So you just try to kill them and any that look like them and any who support them, but somehow their numbers don't get smaller. The other way is to try to imagine what would drive YOU to do the same. It is a lot harder to do the latter.--

Most of why we cannot understand the suicide bomber or those who send these young men on their missions is a cultural one. You may not be able to get your mind around it but how can you get your mind around a father sending his son on a suicide mission, a mother screaming at her son for not dying in a battle or celebrating when she hears her son was killed in battle, or dancing in the streets when hijacked planes of innocent people fly into buildings killing thousands of innocent people. What I have determined is that the Islamic fanatic mindset is close to the WW2 Japanese fanatic mindset. Close manipulation which we would probably call brainwashing is partly to blame, but its not your classic brainwashing where someone is forcefully indoctrinated. Its a brainwashing by friends and family. A cult type brainwashing where the victim accepts the brainwashing and the result. It is an acceptable part of society, as evil and normal as when the Nazis were exterminating the Jews or the East Germans were happily spying on their neighbors or the Japanese happily flying their planes into enemy ships or killing civilians in China to "save" them. Once that has become a natural part of society, it is naturally reinforced daily. However not all Germans, East Germans or Japanese were comfortable with the way things were and rose to the occassion after the defeat of the fanatics. If we ever defeat these fanatics, the majority of Muslims, who are moderate and do not accept this fanaticism, must take on the effort of rebuilding their societies, just as the Japanese and Germans did.

If you want to learn more about these guys, how they think and how they plan to win their war over the west and moderate Islam, read "The Management of Savagery":
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf

And in case you misinterpret the title, the West is the savages to be managed. It shows they do think and live in a different world from the one we understand in the West, and why they must be defeated. Their ultimate goal by the way is not the destruction of the US, but to instead just kick us out of the ME where we are seen as propping up the ME governments. They believe their failures in the past to overthrow governments has been due to superpowers (US and USSR) propping up the local governments. Kick the superpowers out and the ME is theirs to take with Afganistan as the main example. But since killing fellow Muslims looks bad they need the US/USSR to come in so they can be seen as fighting the crusaders, not muslims. Once the USSR came into Afganistan, those running Muslims the Afgan government were now elegible for being killed whereas before the USSR came in they were not. This is what Bush has provided for them in Iraq. The long term plan is for the US to stay as long as possible. The longer it stays the more its is stretched economically and politically. When it eventually leaves it will also withdraw its influence leaving the ME to the fanatics to overthrow. In essence, this war is not a war on terror or a war between Islam and the west. Its a civil war within Islam and the ME and since we are "propping up" ME governments, we are a target. Bush's strategy of spreading democracy is a good one since democracies are much stronger than doctatorial governments which makes up most of the ME. But Bush's methods are inept at best and down right stupid at worse. We need someone who understands these fanatics, their real goals, and the cultures of the ME to direct this "war". Bush and his buddies are exactly the wrong people to do it.

I never know if the author and some of the respondents trully believe that the Israeli attack on Lebanon was discreet or they know that they are deliberately falsifying information. I just returned from Lebanon. The U.N. reports that south Lebanon looks like it was hit by "an earthquake." I'm sure the author and other creeps will say that the U.N. is anti-semetic. Creeps like the author want it both ways, they want Israel to be as vicious as possible and at the same time want everyone believe that the Israeli military is Mr. Morality. Fact is Israeli has better weapons but Hezbollah proved to be better fighters. The Israeli goverment is full of corruption and crime not only cause of the war in Lebanon but also locally in Israel for sexual harrassment, incompetence and greed. Even the Israeli press is reporting this.

Here in Australia last night we saw what happened to Aitaroun, film taken by Australian Jewish and muslim and christian citizens stuck in the middle.

Before I left home though I noticed a report in Haaretz that said "MI knew Hezbollah was about to nab troops". Now think about that for a moment Mr Arkin and imagine how the parents of those young men felt when they found out that their own IDF had used their sons as pawns to launch this demolition of Lebabnon.

In Aitaroun some 200 Australians were trapped when Israel started bombing a position about 1 km away in the hills, a rocket launcher to be precise. The IAF bombed the mountain incessantly for 2 days and achieved nothing so what do you think they did? The destroyed the village and then told the world that the Hezbollah were hiding their launcher in the town when they knew they were lying.

The first house they bombed to rubble killed 8 Canadian visitors from one family, including 4 children. Then they bombed with cluster bombs and phosphorous bombs in the middle of the town and murdered more civilians. Then they bombed the convoy taking out the civilians and killed more.

Not at any point were Hezbollah anywhere near Aitaroun. The IDF planned this war in May, they knew the soldiers were going to be taken but didn't stop it and they systematically blew up the lives of over 1 million innocent people.

It all sounds so Iraq doesn't it? William Arkin you are a fool sir.

The transcript and film I am speaking of can be found at www.abc.net.au and follow the links to 4 Corners program.

they both suck a big one. However, believing that there is an _ultimate_ right or wrong is this in order to avoid solving the situation is

typical of this kind of situation. Bosnia and Serbia waited 200 years to solve their differences..........very sophisticated peoples yes?

no, primitive tribal, genocidal peoples.

there is no difference between hissbollah and Israel.........same stink.

.

two Israeli soldiers were captured and they leveled Beirut. What happened to the Israeli soldiers? Were they captured by Mossad as claimed so that Israeli people could have an outlet for their anger? What is the truth. You were there, did you ask these questions............you remember what triggered the events............what is the truth?

Hezzbollah, Israel............pot and kettle. Stupid people, with attitudes that genocide is an answer...........and you Mr. Arkin are ignoring that point. These are not two western powers, not two Los
Angeles neighbors arguing about parking in front of each others houses...........these are two primitive cultures claiming that one is more primitive than the other........are they really? Or is it that their weapons are more sophisticated and more primitive. I don't see that the Israeli are any better than the big kid beating up the little kid. Surely you see that the rest of the kids are hoping that the little kid kicks the big kids a s s .................

And that's the truth, how about talking about _that_.

.

==Answer: Brainwashing - in the name of religious fanaticism. It would seem to be extremely difficult to kill someone. But to kill oneself in the process - especially when they don't even know their intended victim - requires brainwashing to the highest degree. The teaching of hate by Islamic Fundamentalists in the name of Islam is that strong. The murdering racists of September 11 were brainwashed. And through that, pure evil came out.==

That is a perfectly respectable and often repeated answer. My question was, however, what would make you do it, if anything?

==I don't know Dimitri....I don't have that kind of mind.==

It is hard to imagine. One way to deal with it is to imagine the perpetrators as subhuman brainwashed robots so unlike yourself, that even an idea of compromise or negotiations seems crazy. So you just try to kill them and any that look like them and any who support them, but somehow their numbers don't get smaller.

The other way is to try to imagine what would drive YOU to do the same. It is a lot harder to do the latter

==The fact that Israel has engaged its former "enemy" in the PLO shows just how willing it is to live in peace. Abbas has come to recognize Israel....==

Wouldn't this mean that PLO has changed its position and became a partner? In a space of say 10 years, PLO went from an unimaginable evil organization, who Israel tried extremely violently to eradicate, to a partner in a peace settlement, at least for a while and perhaps again. I don't think the people in the PLO have changed overnight. So what has happened?

==Hamas and Hezbollah have not.==

Fatah and Hamas have been in serious negotiations to form a joint government and implicitely recognize Israel, just before the outbreak of the recent round of hostilities, which now result in 1.5 million Gazans being essentially caged in their trash heap of a jail, with daily Israeli incursions into the "liberated" Gaza, killing dozens each time. Now this round did start with the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier, but just like in Lebanon, Israelis went medieval on them,seeming on cue. Israel wouldn't be looking to mess up potential reconciliation between Hamas and the PLO, would they? Impossible...they are Good, after all.

Lots of nonsense in this report. It doesn't mention the destruction of 60 road bridges up and down the country. It doesn't mention the destruction of the nation's only oil refinery. It doesn't mention the damage to Beirut airport -- not a Hezbollah asset. It doesn't mention the destruction of Lebanon's tourist industry -- its biggest industry -- probably for years to come. It doesn't mention the lingering naval blockade of Lebanon, which had zero relationship with Hezbollah. It doesn't mean the destruction of national highways that Hezbollah wasn't using and didn't own.

And guess what? Doesn't mention dead Lebanese. Why not? We;; ... clearly ... dead Lebanese jes' doan matter. An unfortunate and obvious reality.

Dmitri says: "What would drive [someone] to strap on a suicide vest and blow up a restaurant full of civilians?"

Answer: Brainwashing - in the name of religious fanaticism. It would seem to be extremely difficult to kill someone. But to kill oneself in the process - especially when they don't even know their intended victim - requires brainwashing to the highest degree. The teaching of hate by Islamic Fundamentalists in the name of Islam is that strong. The murdering racists of September 11 were brainwashed. And through that, pure evil came out.

I don't know Dimitri....I don't have that kind of mind. But ask the suicide bombers in Chechnya who went into a schoolyard filled with children only to keep them hostage and kill them, or the rape and murder taking place in Darfur...There is what appears to be a lack of respect for human life that is common to all. .despair clearly does sick and twisted things to people...Martin Luther King couldn't be a more powerful example of how non-violence achieves success. The fact that Israel has engaged its former "enemy" in the PLO shows just how willing it is to live in peace. Abbas has come to recognize Israel....Hamas and Hezbollah have not.

Another great success in the war on terror. But remember what the President said - we don't torture people and we don's send them to be tortured. Actually, I am not so sure he said the second part.

-------------------------------------------
Canadians Fault U.S. for Its Role in Torture Case

By IAN AUSTEN
Published: September 19, 2006
OTTAWA, Sept. 18 -- A government commission on Monday exonerated a Canadian computer engineer of any ties to terrorism and issued a scathing report that faulted Canada and the United States for his deportation four years ago to Syria, where he was imprisoned and tortured.

Skip to next paragraph
Related
Related Site: Canada Commission (ararcommission.ca)
The report on the engineer, Maher Arar, said American officials had apparently acted on inaccurate information from Canadian investigators and then misled Canadian authorities about their plans for Mr. Arar before transporting him to Syria.

"I am able to say categorically that there is no evidence to indicate that Mr. Arar has committed any offense or that his activities constituted a threat to the security of Canada," Justice Dennis R. O'Connor, head of the commission, said at a news conference.

The report's findings could reverberate heavily through the leadership of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which handled the initial intelligence on Mr. Arar that led security officials in both Canada and the United States to assume he was a suspected Al Qaeda terrorist.

The report's criticisms and recommendations are aimed primarily at Canada's own government and activities, rather than the United States government, which refused to cooperate in the inquiry. But its conclusions about a case that had emerged as one of the most infamous examples of rendition -- the transfer of terrorism suspects to other nations for interrogation -- draw new attention to the Bush administration's handling of detainees. And it comes as the White House and Congress are contesting legislation that would set standards for the treatment and interrogation of prisoners.

"The American authorities who handled Mr. Arar's case treated Mr. Arar in a most regrettable fashion," Justice O'Connor wrote in a three-volume report, not all of which was made public. "They removed him to Syria against his wishes and in the face of his statements that he would be tortured if sent there. Moreover, they dealt with Canadian officials involved with Mr. Arar's case in a less than forthcoming manner."

A spokesman for the United States Justice Department, Charles Miller, and a White House spokesman traveling with President Bush in New York said officials had not seen the report and could not comment.
-----------------------------------------

nytimes

==Please hear me out==

You and many others, who don't know much history. How about this for a story of the war:

Continuation of a 60 year+ struggle over partition of Palestine, during which many tens of thousands of civilians were killed by all sides (mostly Arabs, actually), including Israeli non-state terrorists (Irgun), Arab non-state terrorists (PLO, Abu Nidal's boys, Hezobolah, Al Aqsa), and multiple, repeated war crimes have been committed by all combatant militaries.

At least read up on the previous Lebanese war and the resultant 18 year Israeli occupaiton. To claim the war started with the miltary outpost attack is pretty short sighted.

==Spin is easily achieved when the article fails to mention the purpose of the PLO's existence was to destroy Israel. The PLO, like Hezbollah and Hamas negate Israel's right to exist and calls for its destruction using violence. If there were no terrorist organizations, there would be no violence.==

Is that why Israel is supporting Abbas, the president of PA and a bigwig in the PLO? Israel, like the US often makes decisions it later regrets, like creation of Hammas as a counterweight to the secular, nationalist PLO, once considered mre dangerous.

Are you sure it is these terrorists, alone and in a vacuum, purely out of devilish malice and unhuman hate perpetrate all the violence in the Middle East? Is there anything other than worhsip of the devil that drives these people to murder/suicide? Unusual choice for a human, no? Why would you do it? I mean you personally? What would drive you to strap on a suicide vest and blow up a restaurant full of civilians?

Arkin says that what happened in the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict "can't be reduced to 1000 words." He calls it "complex." I submit that the story is simple. It's really just Good (Israel) vs Evil (Hezbollah). Please hear me out. Hezbollah kills Israeli soldiers, kidnaps two more, fires rockets into Israel. Israel responds with rockets and missiles of its own. Hezbollah shoots its rockets from the midst of Lebanese civilians to exact a high civilian toll (when Israel shoots back) to confuse many (including many on this blog) into thinking that Israel was aiming at civiliansHezbollah is the cause of the conflict and responsible for the casualties and destruction on both sides.

Dimitri,

I don't find what was listed as propagnada, but rather facts as to why Israel invaded Lebanon. Please, if you are so uncomfortable with these facts, the references are readily available on the web site you are so opposed to listing them. Spin is easily achieved when the article fails to mention the purpose of the PLO's existence was to destroy Israel. The PLO, like Hezbollah and Hamas negate Israel's right to exist and calls for its destruction using violence. If there were no terrorist organizations, there would be no violence.

I must confess a profound weariness with the relentless pro-Israel apologias of Mr. Arkin and other WP writers. It is becoming increasingly obvious to even the most casual observer of foreign policy that Israel has adopted an amoral policy of intimidation by brute force with the Arabs while showing a benign and moderate face to western audiences, and that its extensively documented pattern of human rights abuses against the Palestinians and others is putting the US (and Israel itself) in the gravest peril. The comment by the IDF chief at the beginning of the recent war (that the campaign would set Lebanon back twenty years)suggests that Israel intended this attack to be as painful as possible for the average Lebanese so that Hizbollah would be held to account by the general population of Lebanon. It's time supporters of Israel like Mr. Arkin stopped the carefully crafted sophistry (please, not more "Myths and Facts")and do what so many in Israel are now doing: question the country's ongoing policies of colonization and brutality vis-a-vis its Arab neighbors.

==Wikipedia -- Great source. Here is a quote from their website as to who writes for this "encyclopedia".

"Unlike with other encyclopedias, the volunteer authors of Wikipedia articles don't have to be experts or scholars...They can be anyone, including you! Volunteers do not need any formal training before creating a new article or editing an existing article==

My point is that they are typically not proffessional propagandists, such as you will find in obvious pro-Israeli or pro-Arab sources. Wikipedia entry on the origin of the 1982 war is heavily annotated, with references to the UN documents and the Research Division of the Library of Congress. Feel free to check the original sources.

Wikipedia -- Great source. Here is a quote from their website as to who writes for this "encyclopedia".

"Unlike with other encyclopedias, the volunteer authors of Wikipedia articles don't have to be experts or scholars...They can be anyone, including you! Volunteers do not need any formal training before creating a new article or editing an existing article"

Mr. Arkin,

Most of the people commenting here seem to have a lot of surety about the facts one way or the other, but there is a point about the war that I would like some clarification about if you could shed some light on it:

I read in a certain blog about an incident in the war where a Lebanese ambulance was supposedly hit by an Israeli missle, and the blog analyzed the photographic evidence and news reports and concluded that it was probably a hoax. That is, the ambulance was not hit by an Israeli missile, but was arranged to look that way.

I'm not sure what to make of it: is it another conspiracy theory, or are these valid points?

==The PLO repeatedly violated the July 1981 cease-fire agreement. By June 1982, when the IDF went into Lebanon, the PLO had made life in northern Israel intolerable, by its repeated shelling of Israeli towns.==

Yup, that the Israeli view, taken from one of the pro-Israeli websites. It doesn't mention anything about Israreli actions (as usual). Here are some different views, from wikipedia:

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Background
After the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict, Lebanon became home to more than 110,000 Palestinian refugees from their homes in present day Israel. In 1970 and again in 1971, the PLO was engaged in the attempted overthrow of the Jordanian monarchy,[1] which routed a large number of Palestinian fighters and refugees into neighboring Lebanon. By 1975, they numbered more than 300,000, creating an informal state-within-a-state in South Lebanon. The PLO became a powerful force and played an important role in the Lebanese Civil War. Continual violence occurred between Israel and the PLO from 1968, peaking in Operation Litani.

On 10 July 1981, after a period of peace, violence erupted in South Lebanon. According to the U.N. Secretary-General, the Israeli air force bombarded Palestinian targets in south Lebanon, and later that day Palestinian elements fired artillery and rockets into northern Israel. However, according to the Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress, "Israel responded to PLO rocket attacks on northern Israeli settlements by bombing PLO encampments in southern Lebanon."[1] The United Nations Secretary-General noted, "After several weeks of relative quiet in the area, a new cycle of violence has begun and has, in the past week, steadily intensified." He further stated, "There have been heavy civilian casualties in Lebanon; there have been civilian casualties in Israel as well. I deeply deplore the extensive human suffering caused by these developments." The President of the Security Council, Ide Oumarou of Niger, expressed "deep concern at the extent of the loss of life and the scale of the destruction caused by the deplorable events that have been taking place for several days in Lebanon."[2] [3] On July 24, United States envoy Philip Habib brokered a shaky ceasefire, but incidents continued. Over the next 11 months, Israel charged that the PLO committed 270 violations of the cease-fire, in which 29 Israelis were killed and more than 300 were injured. Israel is also charged with violating the cease-fire during this time, leading to many Palestinian and Lebanese deaths.[2]

The Palestinian forces continued to grow in Lebanon with full-time military personnel numbering around 15,000, although only 6,000 of these, including 4,500 regulars, were deployed in the south. They were armed with 60 aging tanks, many of which were no longer mobile, and 100-200 pieces of artillery (Sayigh, 1999, p. 524). According to Israeli analysts Schiff and Ya'ari (1984), the PLO more than tripled its artillery from 80 cannons and rocket launchers in July 1981 to 250 in June 1982 (pp. 83-84). The same authors also refer to Israeli intelligence estimates of the number of PLO fighters in southern Lebanon of 6,000 "divided into three concentrations; about 1,500 south of the Litani River in the so-called Iron Triangle (between the villages of Kana, Dir Amas, and Juya), Tyre, and its surrounding refugee camps; another 2,500 of the Kastel Brigade in three districts between the Litani and a line running from Sidon to northeast of Nabatiye; and a third large concentration of about 1,500-2,000 men of the Karameh Brigade in the east, on the slopes of Mount Hermon" (pp. 134-135). The total forces deployed by Syria, the PLO and Israel during the conflict are detailed in the table below.

On 21 April 1982, after a landmine killed an Israeli officer in Lebanon, the Israeli Air Force attacked the Palestinian-controlled coastal town of Damour, killing 23 people. Despite this and numerous other attacks launched since 24 July, 1981 the PLO continued to observe the cease-fire agreement (Cobban, 1984, pp. 119-120). The Secretary-General computed from his reports to the Security Council (S/14789, S/15194) that from August 1981 to May 1982 inclusive, there were 2096 violations of Lebanese airspace and 652 violations of Lebanese territorial waters (Chomsky, 1999, p. 195; Cobban, 1984, p. 112) [4]. On June 3, the Palestinian militant group Fatah-The Revolutionary Council (headed by Yasser Arafat's opponent Abu Nidal) attempted to assassinate Shlomo Argov, Israel's ambassador in London, paralyzing him. Prime Minister Menachem Begin had been informed by Israeli intelligence that the PLO was not involved in the attack on Argov, but withheld this information from his Cabinet (Gilbert, 1998, p. 503). Rafael Eitan, who was then the Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, responded to the aforementioned information in his famous saying "Abu Nidal, abu shmidal. We need to screw PLO!" ("!אבו נידאל, אבו שמידאל. צריך לדפוק את אש"ף"). On June 4 and 5, Israeli F-16 planes bombed Palestinian refugee camps and other PLO targets in Beirut and southern Lebanon killing 45 and wounding 150. For the first time in over ten months, the PLO responded by launching artillery and mortar attacks on civilian centers in northern Israel. On 6 June 1982, Israeli forces under direction of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon invaded southern Lebanon in their "Operation Peace of the Galilee".

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==Why is everyone always surprised that Israel is able to protect herself? Why is Israel always the one at fault, even when they are being attacked, whether it Hamas terrorists in the south, or Hezbollah in the north?==

I don't think anyone is suprised that Israel can defend itself - it is a regional superpower, fully capable of defeating all of the Arab armies combined. I don't think anyone is blaming Israel for defending its people and territory. Its the collective punishment part that most people are against. Killing 1200 mostly civilians and mostly those who had nothing to do with the attack on their soliders seems wrong to me.

==For that matter, why is the majority of the international population against the Jews having a sliver of land to live on?==

That's a really odd statement. What international population are you referring to? I think most people in the world are quite content to have Israel within the 1967 borders be a heaven for Jews. It's those silly illegal settlements that seem to be a problem. There is even a UN Security Council resolution against them, 242. But that doesn't threaten Israel, just those nice areas they occupied in the West Bank.

==The whole point of the re-establishment of the Jews to their point of origin in a land no one wanted (until the Jews transformed it), was to give them a refuge against the anti-semitism that was rife prior to 1948, and obviously hasn't lessened.==

Well, there is a lot of dispute over the mythology of the "land no-one wanted". And being of Jewish heritage from the USSR, I know anti-semitism first hand. But how does that allow Israel to occupy land which really, really doesn't belong to it? And then wall it off, so the original population can't get to it. Criss-croos it by roads "for Jews only"? That's bad stuff, in my book.

==I regret that Hezbollah hides among women and children, because when infra-red scopes see a rocket laucher, they aim at it. The fact that 'innocent civilians' were killed and injured is most unfortunate, but I haven't heard the 'innocent civilians' protesting against Hezbollah's presence in their midst. ==

The population views Hezbolah as defense against the kind Israelis who occupied them three times, last time for 18 years, with large scale brutality. But Jews couldn't do that, could they? Did you know, by the way, that the first thing IAF destroyed was a museum of Israeli occupation, housed in an old Israeli jail they used during their years in Lebanon?

==I find Hezbollah to be chicken-hearted in every way. When they want to show how macho they are, they hide behind women's skirts like bad little boys, and then the world is surprised that the people Hezbollah hide behind got killed and injured!==

I think Israeli soldiers who actually fought Hezbolah fighters would disagree with you. They found them to be tenacious, motivated, brave and skillful.

==I also think that this conflict lies as heavily on the Lebanese Government, and the U.N., as it does on Hezbollah, since they guaranteed that they would clean out Hezbollah from amongst the Lebanese.==

As I posted previously, Israel has repeatedly violated the ceasefire agreement as well. Perhaps Hezbolah's insistence of staying on as a "protecting force" would carry less weight to the Lebanese population, if they were not continuously buzzed by Israeli war planes.

==Israel has the right to defend herself against any attack, including an attack by Hezbollah. So do the Lebanese. They can defend themselves by dismantling Hezbollah, and taking their arms away. They can also prevent more arms from Syria and Iran from reaching the terrorists they harbor.==

Hezbolah can only be disarmed when there is comprehensive peace in the region.

==They won't. It's too easy to let things be. And the women and children, well, they were raised in the same death worshipping religion. If they don't want to be in danger around Hezbollah, surely they can pack a few things, and walk the few blocks to where Hezbollah doesn't reign supreme.==

Hezbolah is spread throughtout southern Lebanon, among a million Shia living there. Your suggestion is a bit naive.

==But oddly, they don't all seek refuge, even when Israel, to their own detriment, drops leaflets telling them politely that they should get out of the war zone.==

Actually, ordering a million people off their land to clear it for military action is in itself a violation of the Geneva Conventions. And it wasn't "polite", whatever that means. The Lebanese Shia were first ordered off their land, than told that any moving vehicle on the road will be attacked.

==I don't know why everyone is so suprised and shocked that Israel fought back when attacked. Most countries do. ==

I think the civlian toll and wholesale leveling of entire civilian neighborhoods that got most people's attention. I don't like to see city blocks of apartment buildings leveled, essentially as a collective punishment for Hezbolah support. It is mean and illegal.

==Hezbollah can say what they want - they can claim victory because they survived to re-arm, and attack Israel again in five or six years. Perhaps by then Syria and Iran will join them openly. And perhaps America will join Israel openly, although we haven't exactly been hiding the fact that we support and arm Israel, and have ships off Israel's coast to make sure Israel is not overwhelmed.==

I think Isreali interests and American interest are not one and the same, despite millions of dollars spent on propaganda to make Americans think that.

And yes, the entire Middle East should take a warning. Israel victori