It would seem to me that military service whether 40 or 60 years ago is preferable to the like of Cheney and Bush who did none. People don't like Kerry throwing his service in their faces because they weren't patriotic or man enough to serve their country in the military. Many used the excuse that they were in College and that their education was more important than national security, does that mean that they (many Republicans) thought that they were too smart for military service now they want to crucify Kerry for his remark. Get off IT and go on to something more important like health, education and welfare for God's sake. A military person in Iraq right now regardless of that person's level of education is stuck there whether they like it or not. They can't just get up and decide to come home without being considered deserters. George Bush was off campaigning instead of fulfilling his military obligation and he never faced a court martial because of his money and daddy. Give it a rest.

And, you said I was angry.

Warrior King,

Yes, but we are angry for different reasons, you because someone would dare criticize those who are doing the killing. I am angry because of those who are doing the killing. Did you hear about the number of innocent people in Iraq who were slaughtered in the past 72 hours? Do you care? If it were your family-members would you be so flippant!

I wish that I could be like you and be as detached and supportive of murder as you apparently are, naw, I am thankful that I am not like that!

Carry on soldier!

Rev:

Your still at this, get a grip.

We get it by now, all soldiers are ultra conservative sociopaths who tolerate a handful of psychopaths, who in-turn run around killing indiscriminately.

I see that now, you are calling for some of the US policy leaders on Iraq to be executed along with or better yet instead of Saddam.

And, you said I was angry.

You sound like one of those people who taunt the families when soldiers are laid to rest.

Betteriff

It would also be ashamed, if this travesty of justice in Iraq is carried out, if Saddam's accomplices in America were to get off free!

I am praying that as T Jefferson once said, that God's justice won't sleep forever and that Saddam's American and other accomplices will share his same fate, if it is carried out!

Then justice will have been done! Saddam may have been guilty, but look who is killing Iraqi's now!

Soldiers....

many did not join the military to protect the rights and freedoms of Americans, many of them have their own agendas, are memembers of political parties, have voted for certain agendas, have the man in office that they want and now they are off fighting to put their stamp on the world, never mind the collateral damanage.

They don't care about what many Americans like myself believe and I can prove it. When I share my opinion, they tell me and others like me that we should just get out of 'their' country.

Wake up Warrior King, soldiers helped to put Bush in office, some voted for him a second time. They are not as altruistic, many of them, as you pretend, and therefore they are not off-limits to being criticized.

The President does not believe in accountability, and some of them and you, apparently do not believe in accountability for them either!

It would have been better if Iraq was left alone and Saddam was left to rule Iraq; at least it is not in civil war and there would be at least some normalcy in the Iraqi's daily life even if it was not a democracy and under a dictator - it is still better than was is happening now, where killings are happening everywhere , the country in chaos and civil war. For a country with divided tribal loyalties and extremist muslim divisions, a dictatorship is the best form of government to hold the country together, to impose peace and order and to prevent divided allegiances from erupting to bloodshed and civil wars. Saddam should be reinstated as the ruler of Iraq - it is the only way to hold the Iranian Shiites in check and the only way to keep Iraq as one nation; otherwise, just send Saddam into exile with a pension to appease the Sunnis and divide Iraq into 3 countries while giving the Sunnis some oilfields for their revenue source. Executing Saddam would be a grave mistake - it will surely worsen the bloodshed and civil war, unending.

Just remember that this nation's freedom (your freedom) was paid for with the blood of soldiers. And, today we are the ones that still guarantee that freedom.

Warrior King,

Take a breather, I counseled vietname era vets before who were much like you, angry and know-it-alls.

I could come down hard on you, however, because you have been there I will give you some leeway, but keep in mind being there does not make you right.

Please understand that you are not the only one who fought for this nation, many of my relatives did as well. And don't you ever forget who built this country so that you could have your freedoms!

You are way off base...no wonder the so-called war on terrorism is going so bad!

Not only Senator John Kerry....
.........no one is exempt! So far the apparently inviolate Republican smear campaigners including George, have attacked the following:

Respected Veterans like,

• Col. Colin Powell,
• John McCain,
• John Kerry,
• John Murtha and others...in addition to

• The Supreme Court of the U.S.A
• The infirmed Michael Fox
• American citizens who do not agree with his positions

Has President Bush ever asked any of his cohorts to apologize, even Rush Slim-baugh who he recently provided with an expensive set of cuff links given his support for Bush's inane policies and murderous rampage in Iraq?

I am still disappointed that Americas are not upset about America's sleazy President and his cohorts who are responsible for the deaths of innocent Iraqi citizens on a daily basis in Iraq.

And what is he doing in the interim, joking, campaigning and trying to destroy the characters of good Americans, even 'pubs who won't go along with his chicanery?

When will George Bush ever apologize for all of the damage that he and his ilk have done to the whole world, misrepresenting the facts to the American people and the world, and for violating International Law?

John Kerry's comments are a non-sequitir, let's stay on point and focus on the real problem, George Bush and the Republican killer-machine; they are the one's who have zero respect for veterans and service people!

Not only Senator John Kerry....

so far the apparently inviolate Republican smear campaigners including George, have attacked the following:

Respected Veterans like,
Col. Colin Powell,
John McCain,
John Kerry,
John Murtha and others...in addition to

The Supreme Court of the U.S.A. and the sick Michael Fox.

Has President Bush ever asked any of his cohorts to apologize, even Rush Slim-baugh who he recently provided with an expensive set of cuff links given his support for Bush's inane policies and murderous rampage in Iraq.

I am still dissapointed that Americas are not upset about America's sleazy President and his cohorts who are responsible for the deaths of innocent Iraqi citizens on a daily basis in Iraq.

And what is he doing in the interim, joking, campaigning and trying to destroy the characters of good Americans, even 'pubs who won't go along with his chicanery?

When will George Bush ever apologize for all of the damage that he and his ilk have done to the whole world.

John Kerry's comments... a non-sequitir, let's stay on point and focus on the killer George Bush!

MJ

You are badly misinformed and when you throw in the wounded and maimed Americans alone, anyone who believes that America is safer because of George Bush is nuts. The number of American wounded, maimed and killed, even Bush would agree is somewhere between 50 and 100,000.

Americans, mostly young people, are simply being taken to the slaughter!

All we have done is take over another country and turn it into a battlefield, perhaps someday we will call it by some catchy phrase like Gettysburg.

Many Americans believe that they are safer because innocent Iraqi civilians are dying in their behalves overseas.

Why won't tough guys like you take on the enemy on your or his turf and stop sacrificing the lives of innocent people who had nothing to do with the American problem?

Mr. Arkin,

This topic belongs to Chris Cillizza, but I'm sure he appriciates the help.

Duh! It was obviously a joke. Kerry knows there is no draft. He knows that the military has standards and turns away a fair number of volunteers who don't cut the mustard. The troops aren't "stuck". They rotate out after a tour. If he meant the troops he would have said "You get sent to Iraq". The one stuck is the adminstration. Because Georgie, Dickie and Donnie didn't do their homework and study before hand! And oh by the way, if the adminstration is stuck, so are we as a nation.

AS far as a joke goes, it requires that you make all those connections. Which means that more folks won't get than those who do. And I'm sure his delivery didn't help either. He should stick his day job and leave the comedy to Herb Stein.

--The fact that Mohammed Atta, a 9/11 highjacker, met with Iraqi intelligence officials before the attack on the towers means nothing to you. Interesting.--

Hmmm, well it would if it were true. However the 911 Commission found no viable link. Here's where you can read about it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html
At best it is not confirmed, a large difference from Cheney's statements that the evidence is "overwhelming".

If you're willing to believe what has been said by proven liars against all evidence, then by all means, live in your own world. I'd rather live in the real world.

so many clueless people here, along with Mr Arkin.

Kerry was referring to Bush's ignorance (im sure someone said so in this discussion). it was so clear from the getgo.

the herd mentality of (ignorant) americans never ceases to amaze

One last thing, I refuse to get bogged down in the comments that various, moronic politicians and press secretaries are making in an attempt to put Kerry on the spot here. The focus should be on what Kerry said and to allow people to form their own opinions, not to dictate what Kerry "meant" or what Kerry "implied". Or what you want to think or what you want to say that he meant to say, or, waht you want to say that he was saying, or not saying...whatever. Getting off on those tangents is a one-way ticket to Limbaughland. You want to say that Kerry was stupid? Fine. Let us be the judge of the truth that, ok? Or do you feel the need to explain to us just exactly why he was stupid in what he said...or...do you just feel the need to explain to us what we should think about what Kerry said?

Let's all get a grip on this. Just as there are many servicemen and women with college degrees, there are many high-school dropouts who are not in Iraq, not even in the military. Kerry was not entirely right in what he said. But he was not entirely wrong, either. And in general he was VERY right. One of the best ways to get stuck in a dead-end nowhere job with a dead-end future is to blow the chances that you have to get a good education starting from a young age, and certainly we all know the benefits of a college degree, right? Perhaps you would all prefer that he had said it that way.

Not to mention that there are millions of uneducated illegals just like that, sneaking over the border every year, to take advantage of those very same dead-end nowhere jobs, to join the tens of millions of illegals here who can't even read and write in English, doing the same sort of work, but living happily at or below what is the poverty level for the average US citizen. With GW and the Republicans and a whole lot of Democrats in Congress, just waving them on in and offering them US citizenship.

"The senator's suggestion that the men and women of our military are somehow uneducated is insulting and shameful," President Bush said in Georgia, seizing on Kerry's remarks. "The members of the United States military are plenty smart and plenty brave, and the senator from Massachusetts owes them an apology."

...obviously most of them are not college-educated, or the military would be mostly officers.

I mean, this can only be so bad for Kerry, because it's mostly true. It can't be much worse for Bush. The question is really who else is going to make a fool of themselves trying to give Kerry a hard time about it.

And, even then, it's like Saddam trying to give Milosevic a hard time about an embarassingly large number of deaths during his term as president.

I think you made a great effort to put words in Kerrys' mouth, but nothing you said speaks louder than what he said. He's 90% right. The lack of a good education, or even the prospects for a good education, is the reason that most people join the military. Sure there are a few crazy people with college degrees who join (from non military academies, of course) and also, of course, officers are usually degreed, and sure some soldiers go on to college on the GI bill...notably not in Iraq...but mainly the military today is staffed by high school kids who saw the military as a way out of their small towns and dead-end futures. Not to mention the illegals who are attempting to gain US citizenship by serving in the US armed forces.

I don't blame Kerry for what he said. I blame him for having to pose it as a joke, before he had the balls to admit that he actually said it. Now. Sure he has fumbled the ball a little, here, but also he has given so many Republicans yet another chance to display their hypocritical nature. Where would GW be today if he didn't have that same silver spoon? He wouldn't have been able to avoid active duty during Vietnam, he might not even be alive today, and we can only imagine what sort of disaster he would have been as a military officer. Certainly he did not have the grades to get into Harvards' MBA program on his own. And what part of the National Guard has not sent troops to Iraq? All the old scandals in GWs' past will come flooding out, and the troops will take a hard look at their leaders, yet again. This may be a stub of the toe, for Kerry. But in the long run it's going to kick some serious Republican butt and that's just a good thing.

You State: "There is no direction given in the American school system and Kerry is telling these kids to be on top of it all so they never view service in Iraq as being the best option."

As a teacher, I'm not sure I understand this particular reference to "no direction" given... we get attacked so much from so many different sides, I would ask you to be more specific.

More importantly, I take issue with your analysis of Kerry's speech. Let me see if I got this right: "Be on top of it all" (make an effort to be smart) "so they never view service in Iraq as being the best option" (or you'll get stuck in Iraq) or if you prefer (military is a lowly option and there is so much better than that but you must be smart or else). Your agreement with the spirit of Kerry's comments, as based on your careful analysis, also insults the troops--including my father a 28-year veteran of the Air Force holding a Master's Degree.
Nice going. Thanks a lot.

First of all "Rev" we have not lost more lives than were lost on 9/11. Perhaps that day is approaching in the next year, but it hasn't yet. It is a bad to exaggerate things in making your point as it lessens the credibility of everything else you say.

The joke here is John Kerry. He can say his "botched joke" was aimed at George Bush all he wants but this wouldn't be the first time Kerry has insulted the military. "Study hard, make an effort to be smart, or you'll end up stuck in Iraq" directed at a group of college students--comparing a group of college-aged students to the college-aged soldiers who apparently did not make the effort to be smart.
You can make the Bush is Dumb assertion all you want, and that is fine (though what does that say about Kerry since Bush got better grades than his fellow Yale alum?). But there is no comparison to an individual in his "punchline." Much like Michael Moore, Kerry believes that the soldiers are only those from poverty or can't make a career of anything else because they did not make an "effort to be smart." KERRY HAS A SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, and the military was, is, and will be beneath him. Even his own service was something he "had to get through" (on the advice of Edward Kennedy) if he wished to be a career politician. This is the man who threw away his medals. This is the man who has throughout his career charged the military with alleged crimes. He clearly has disdain for the military, and I don't buy his excuse after the fact that it was aimed at George Bush.

And as for the Great-Draft-Dodger-in-Chief you must be referring to Clinton. Remember, he left the country, and he lied about reporting to an ROTC program. Can we be clear about some things. Sure Bush was in a Champagne Unit as were many other well-connected people. I don't like it, but he DID NOT DODGE THE DRAFT. And the CBS report used forged documents so you CAN'T SAY HE WENT AWOL, we was granted permission to go to Alabama. Al Gore is often cited as a Vietnam Vet (there's even a famous picture of him with his rifle... handling it wrong). Sure he was In-Country, but his daddy Sen. Gore, Sr. got him into a "Champagne Duty" as a journalist with another rifleman having to watch over him like a bodyguard.

In the Electoral Spirit that is upon us, let me close with these observations. Apparently, everyone is blinded by their own ideology. Bring back some centrists, let the people of all positions fight our state legislatures' attempts to gerrymander our districts after the next census (and sooner if possible in your state) which only cause the most extreme views of both parties to get elected. Let's make races competitive again, something that allows the voters to again choose their politicians, not the politicians choose their voters. Challenge them all in the courts. My high school students could draw more common sense district lines.

I'm sorry, but in February, 90+% of the troops said they were there because Saddam caused 911. That sounds drastically undereducated to me. But I still don't understand Kerry's comments to mean that, even re-reading them. We are ALL stuck in Iraq. Every last one of us. We're a democracy, after all, and EVERYTHING our government does is ALL of our responsibility.

As to headline decisions... was it a headline in July 2003 when Bush, with utterly terrifying ignorance or falacy, claimed we were in Iraq because they wouldn't let the inspectors in? If a wartime president reveals himself to live in the factual land of Pluto and you don't print it six inches high on the front page, you CANNOT nitpick later about a random statement from a random senator, not even up for re-election. Bejesus, what a sad pathetic situation this is. We so get what we deserve... lied to, all of the time. Wake up a smell the manipulation or burn in it.

We don't need more troups? Four military generals, three of whom served in Iraq don't know better than you? That's pretty rich. Stay the course is moronic. A million troops, ten years, partition the country, and we CAN win this thing. Share the load with every American family, not just those patriotic enough to send their kids to the armed forces. Anything short of that is cruelty to those on their 4th tour, their families here at home straining to hold things together with no end in sight.

Kerry was right to hit back. Good for him. Had he done the same in 2004, the election could very well have gone differently. Why are Bush and Cheney the only politicians in the country allowed to go around uncastrated? Think about it. Kerry didn't shoot an old man in the face did he? Kerry didn't spend millions on fuel to make an aircraft carrier circle around to keep the California coastline out of the picture, did he? Kerry didn't think cutting some Texas brush was more important than seeing what could be done about a thousand Americans drowning. Come on, let's at least pretend to have some perspective.

Sully:

The fact that Mohammed Atta, a 9/11 highjacker, met with Iraqi intelligence officials before the attack on the towers means nothing to you.

Interesting.

Warrior King,

So your answer is No, Iraq had nothing to do with 911? That is what I took from your answer to my question as to whether Iraq had any links to 911. Your explanations of Iraq sponsoring terrorism and past terrorism is a deflection from the question as to whether the Iraqi government or groups it supported played a part in 911. That question when applied to Taliban Afganistan is a no brainer, but applying it to Iraq does not work. Despite what Cheney has lied about, there is no evidence for a meeting in Prague with Atta, who was spotted elsewhere at the time. Even Bush says that Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Is Bush lying about that or does it just not fit into the preconceived notion they carefully insinuated in the run up to the invasion? Look, I'm not blaming you for buying into Cheney's lies and Bush's lies, they obviously convinced a lot of people at the time. But we know a lot today we did not know then. We know they lied. We know there were no WMD. We know there was no 911 linkage. The question is whether you accept reality or would rather continue to live in the lies Bush/Cheney made to justify this war.

Now you can continue to believe that Iraq was part of 911, but be careful when saying other people have "bought into" some political position. It appears you have bought the Bush/Cheney lies hook, line and sinker. Your answer is simple grabbing at straws. I know its hard to feel fooled, to realize you were lied to in order to perform a patriotic service, but the sad truth is you were. No one blames you or the other soldiers. The ones whose lies have been exposed are the ones to blame, and when the republicans loose the House and Senate next week you will see smoke rising from DC from the paper being burned by republicans who know the investigations will be starting soon. Its going to be ugly the next few years, but facing an ugly truth can be that way. And in the end America will be stronger for facing its wrongs and putting them right, rather than pretending the wrongs were right as the republicans are currently doing.

On a more broad spectrum of the Kerry incident,I truly believe Kerry intended those remarks towards Bush and his administration, and everyone knows that. They know that those remarks were indeed intended for the Bush administration and the Republican Party and not our precious solidiers in Iraq, which we are all still a bit confused of why we, or should I say they are there in the first place. Now being a politician at such a critical time I do agree Kerry should have carefully evaluated his speech before hurdeling those vulnerable words, but talking insultively about our troops? No Way. Remember, he tryed to keep them out of Iraq in the first place. We still don't know the ultimate reason of why are troops are still there with so much blood still being shed in the first place. Not to mention Bin Ladin is still on the run.

Saddam Hussein's government provided diplomatic and economic help to Islamic extremists and al-Qaeda.

Abu Abbas, former secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Front masterminded the October 7-9, 1985 hijacking of an Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro. Four Palestinian terrorists seized it on the high seas and held some 400 passengers hostage for 44 hours. 69-year-old New York retiree Leon Klinghoffer, confined to a wheelchair was shot and then rolled off into the Mediterranean. Abu Abbas was captured by Italian authorities with the help of the US military. But, because he possessed an Iraqi Diplomatic Passport he was released by the Italians. Abu Abbas was again captured, this time in Baghdad by US troops invading Iraq in 2003.

Abu Nidal head of the Fatah Revolutionary Council was living in Iraq until he died in 2002. He was responsible for the murder of 17 Americans.

In 1993, al-Qaeda member Abdul Rahman Yasin, an American born Iraqi, was responsible for mixing the chemicals in the bomb that exploded in the parking garage beneath the Twin Towers, killing six and injuring 1,042 people in New York. At the time of the US invasion of Iraq he was still living in Baghdad and escaped before the city fell to our troops.

On February 13, 2003, just five weeks before the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom The Philippine government expelled Iraqi diplomat Hisham al Hussein . Cell phone records of indicate he had spoken with Abu Madja and Hamsiraji Sali, two leaders of Abu Sayyaf, al-Qaeda's de facto franchise for the Philippines. The timing was particularly suspicious, as he had been in contact with the Abu Sayyaf terrorists just before and after they conducted an attack in Zamboanga City in which U.S. Special Forces Sergeant First Class Mark Wayne Jackson, age 40. was killed.

According to the U.N. Ambassador from the Czech Republic, Hynek Kmonicek, 9/11 hijacker Muhammad Atta was in contact with Iraqi intelligence officers, Al Ani, and Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir while he visited Prague five months earlier.

al-Qaeda leader, the late Abu Musab al Zarqawi was convelesing in Baghdad after being wounded in Afghanistan and well before the US invasion of Iraq. He first gained prominence in al-Qaeda by running an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. After the fall of the Taliban he was allowed by Saddam to form a new terrorist training academy in Iraq.

Information compiled by Deroy Murdock

Kerry, a Viet Nam vet, makes a joke slamming the troops? How dense are some of you people?

The Great-Draft-Dodger-in-Chief has succeeded at distracting you with spin and mischaracterization once again.

I mean this with all sincerity, some of you are complete buffoons.

Thank you!
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I find it quite funny that almost everyone here keeps posting insults, reprimands and other negativity against one another while accomplishing absolutely NOTHING. Remind you of anyone?
I'll say it again-the Republocrats and Democans are the problem. Be brave America, think outside the box, vote for a third party candidate in all cases. Take this country back and put Bush, Kerry and all the other losers on the unemployment line (figuratively speaking, of course). And don't give that 'throwing your vote away if you don't vote for the two main parties' line, that's just being lazy and very UN-American.

Good grief. Come on Bill, Senator Kerry wasn't talking about troops, he was talking about George Bush: i.e. if you don't get your smarts through serious study and experience (Bush was a playboy, drunk, lazy, used his name for advantage), you may end up making dumb decisions later in life, like Bush did in committing us to the Iraq debacle. Like Kerry said, he botched the sentence structure. It's like being a Jazz musician: you get an idea in your head but as the measures fly by the execution doesn't always come out as you'd hoped! People take everything far too literally - they know John Kerry would never say anything negative about our fighting men and women. Whoops, a C sharp instead of a C natural. People just don't think. Chill, baby, chill. Once more from the top.

Warrior King wrote:
--This nation has not been attacked since 9/11, because we are SAFER now and we have a president who does not vacillate. If we were not safer then we would have already been attacked.--

Safer from what? A 911 style attack or other form of terrorism? From where, Iraq? Who in Iraq attacked Americans on 911? Do you believe the Iraqis were a threat to America before the invasion? Do you believe the Iraqis had any involvement in 911?

I THINK THAT IT A SHAME THAT ONE MAN CAN HAVE SO MUCH POWER TO SEND THE ARMY, MARINE NAVY, AIR FORCE NAT. GUARD TO FIGHT A WAR , UNDER A FALSE SENSE OF NAT. SECURITY. I WILL SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE MEN AND WOMEN IN THESE SERVICES THAT CAN NOT SPEAK OUT, BECAUSE OF THE CODE OF MILTARY JUSTICE. A LOTS OF SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN DO NOT WANT TO BE THERE. THEY WERE ORDER TO BE THERE , NO CHOICE. SOME WRER NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE MILITARY WHEN THIER TIME WAS UP. I AM A VET. SO I KNOW THAT IT WOULD MEAN HARD TIMES FOR A MILITARY PERSON TO SPEAK OUT, WHILE HE OR SHE IS STILL IN THE SERVICE.

Kerry was being his usual stupid, lazy, cavalier self when he uttered this gaffe. But lets get one thing clear here: the real stink here is Bush and how he jumped on Kerry's comment simply in this beyond obvious desperate act to protect his precious, stupid republican majority in Congress.

It is one thing when politicians wallow in the pigpen filth of political campaigning in the waning days of a political race. It is quite another when the President of the United States uses that hallowed office and drags it into the hogpen as well.

George W. Bush is a low life sh!t who should not be allowed to stink up that office one more minute.

Rev:

Thank you for being honest.

Also, for proving that you have no clue what we have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I could get ticked off for being accused, by association of being a murderer, but I am clear in my conscience that the only people I drew a bead on were armed and trying to kill me.

When I was in Baghdad, my unit worked on projects to fix schools that had been run down for years before we ever arrived. We got funding to put Iraqi's to work on putting in sewer systems and hard surface roads. We upgraded clinics in the poorest neighborhoods.

When we would pull into a neighborhood kids came out of the woodwork to greet us, knowing we were doing things to make their lives better.

Most of the violence in Iraq takes place in Baghdad and most of that is only in certain limited areas.

I'm sorry you think that the military allows psychopaths to run loose and murder civilians. That's not the case. When you consider the amount of man-hours our troops spend out patrolling or engaging in active combat, the limited number of alleged incidents involving the deaths of civilians does not justify your belief that we are driving around Iraq gunning people down at will.

The world was not one big love fest before George Bush was inaugurated.

Just remember that this nation's freedom (your freedom) was paid for with the blood of soldiers. And, today we are the ones that still guarantee that freedom.

Whom are the ones doing the slaughtering of all these innocents?

Posted by: Warrior King

Some are on trial right now where they should be but along with Bush and many others, where have you been?

Whom are the ones doing the slaughtering of all these innocents?

Posted by: Warrior King

Some are on trial right now, where have you been?

Postscript Warrior King in reponse to the following:

"Soldiers do not need bleeding heart liberals to protect us".

And as I recall, it was a soldier that caused Jesus to bleed when he pierced him with his sword.

I am not John Kerry, I won't loose an election because of what I say, and I don't play the pseudo-patriot game eiher.

Many soldiers enter the army for different reasons and some are not as noble as you have indicated; some humans like guns and artillery and killing. I am trying to protect innocent people around the world from being killed as a result of the policies of George Bush and some soldiers who are too eager to go on a killing or raping rampage. I can appreicate someone like Jessica Lynch who admitted that she was no heroine as many have prtended!

You call me a bleeding heart, perhaps that is what is wrong with your heart, it apparently does not bleed even for people who are being killed that have not done anything to George Bush, the United States or you!

A man once said to a friend, if I were ever to have a heart transplant, I would want your heart; a heart that has never been used.

And we are not safer, we have lost more lives than were lost on 911. It seems to me that if you were a man of courage you would do one thing that Bush said before, you would tell the enemy to 'bring it on'.

If taking over another country to fight a proxy war gives you some kind of comfort or satisfaction that America has somehow been made safer (when other people are dying because of America), you are about as twisted as George Bush is. Real men and women, I believe, fight their own battles.

Many countries in the world are arming themselves with nukes. Now tell me how we are safer, all you folks are doing is creating more enemies, and fear of Americans? I still recall what a great job the military did of defending this country on 9/11...give me a break and how old are you?

If you want to follow a warror, it seems to me that you should be following Mr. Kerry, not a little weasal President who copped out and dropped out, and has spent the last 6 years disparaging people who served their country!

Rev:

Whom are the ones doing the slaughtering of all these innocents?

Rev:

Whom are the ones doing the slaughtering of all these innocents?

Warrior King

Contraire my friend, on the other hand you have bought into the Bush political ploy of misdirection, and he is good at that!

Bush is using Kerry's comments, the DPRK and his so-called war on terrorism in order to prop up his image while every day he is responsible for the slaughter, maiming and wounding of innocent people all over the world. That apparently does not bother you or others like you!

This is just another ploy, similar to ones that were utilized during past elections. We all know that the military is sacrosanct, so even when the military is deployed in an unjust war, most Americans will say, 'of course I support the troops', whether they believe the war is just or not.

Now Bush has Kerry where he wants him, particularly if Mr. Kerry intends to run for President again. I can see the ads now, "Kerry said that American troops are illiterate"! Bush is still using wedge issues to help him to continue his crusade and to slaughter innocent people around the world, and what is so amazing about it; he does it with a smile on his face?

You need to avoid Bush wanderlust and come back from Bush wonderland, King!

I remind you that while Bush is carrying on this non-sense, people are dying; how many do you suppose have denied just this morning?

Bushisms.......Don't forget that John Kerry fought for the freedoms that many of you enjoy today, not George Bush!

There are scores of websites that contain thousands of Bushisms; and instead Americans people get exercised over what Kerry says, come on people!

Why aren't Americans upset about all of the innocent people who are being wounded and murdered in Afghanistan and Iraq? And whats funny about it, some of you feel that you and Bush are better than John Kerry and that Mr. Kerry is stupid. Mr. Kerry, not George Bush fought for the freedoms that many of you enjoy today!

Coop:

If Democrats or anyone elselooses to the Republicans in future elections, it will be because of the sophisticated (take no hostages) less than moral political machinery of the Right.

Somehow Democrats are under the impression that if you just stand up and tell the truth, that Americans will respond to that. Democrats are unfortunately naiive with respect to what they are up against, The Beast.

Last week someone even pointed out the similarities of the Bush Administration and the Politburo!

Sully and Rev:

You've bought into what people like Sen. Kerry and Congressman Rangel are selling and in fact truly believe. Kerry in stuck with a 1960's image of the military. On average the lower enlisted, military members are better educated than there non-military counterparts in the civilian world. And, based on zip codes from where the enlistees originate from, since 9/11 the middle class whites are over represented and poor blacks, for the first time in since the 1950's are under represented based on their numbers in the overall population.

Soldiers do not need bleeding heart liberals to protect us. We volunteered to serve and understand the risks that are inherent with the job. Since the invasion of Iraq re-enlistments among combat veterans is up 107%. Those doing the real fighting are staying in even though it means going back to Iraq.

Peace comes at a cost. This nation has not been attacked since 9/11, because we are SAFER now and we have a president who does not vacillate. If we were not safer then we would have already been attacked. It's not from lack of trying by the terrorists it is because we are doing the right things at home AND overseas.

ELECTION ALARM!! SPREAD THE WORD!!

For uncensored news please bookmark:

otherside123.blogspot.com
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
www.wsws.org
www.takingaim.info
www.onlinejournal.com

http://www.democrats.com/Make-Them-Steal-Your-Vote

Make Them Steal Your Vote - Election Protection

There's been much wringing of hand and gnashing of tooth over the impending 2006 Stolen Elections (myself included). With stories breaking into the corporate MSM (esp. Lou Dobbs on CNN) of Dieblod's voting machine vulnerabilities, touch screen machines flipping votes to repubs in S FL, and voting machine "sleep-overs" in San Diego,CA.

While not, perhaps, the intended effect, this news has the psychological effect of discouraging and dissuading active participation in our democratic process (ie: Voter Suppression). The wife, however, in her infinite wisdom, has a simple answer to these developments - "I'm going to vote, they're not going to stop me, I'm going to make them steal my vote". So what can we do to catch the Republican Dirty Tricksters trying to steal our votes? Below are listed several Election Protection initiatives to help stop the disenfranchisement by the Republican election suppression machine and maybe catch them red-handed. Make them steal your vote....

There are several ways to particiapte in Election Protection activities. One of the latest is called Video the Vote. Our own Bob Fertik has started a Blue Revolution slated for election night. There are toll-free hotlines to call in problems. Even do-it yourself exit polling...

* Election Protection Hotline. If you encounter any problem in the voting process call 1-866-OUR-VOTE (1-866-687-8683) for English or 1-888-VEY-VOTA (1-888-839-8682 para la ayuda en espanol).

* Working Asset's Voter Protection Immediate Response Network. We may not have enough time to email you, but we can deliver a text message or place a call straight to your phone with a short and easy action that could help save the election. Signing up takes only a moment, and you'll be a great service in helping protect the election. We may need to urge the local election offices to keep the polls open to compensate for delayed poll openings, such as what happened in Maryland's primary this year. We might push for more voting machines to be delivered to precincts with very long lines. We may need to show up in person and witness poll-closing procedures. We might also need to show up in person at our county election offices to protest voter fraud or voter intimidation at the polls. And we may need people to go with video cameras in hand, interview voters who've had problems, and then post that video to the web.

* People for the American Way's Election Protection 365. National, state, and local members of the Election Protection coalition are working at a fever pitch to get this historic voter protection program's Election Day components ready to go. Are you part of the effort? People For the American Way Foundation has taken responsibility inside the coalition to help in five key states: Ohio, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Florida and New Jersey. We need you to help us there. Can you volunteer?

* Election Verification Exit Poll. To protect the vote count, we must have an independent way to assess the will of the voters. For this reason, the Vote Count Protection Project includes an Election Verification Exit Poll. In selected precincts, we will interview a representative sample of voters to determine their choices of candidates. The raw data, precinct by precinct, will be publicly posted. This transparency will allow statisticians of every political stripe to perform independent analyses. Note that media-sponsored exit polls, such as the 2004 US Presidential exit poll, do not make their raw data available in this way, and are not Election Verification Exit Polls. Read the Election Verification Exit Poll plan details (PDF, 104Kb).

* Do Your Own Exit Poll: While we cannot take responsibility for exit polls that we do not supervise ourselves, there is no harm in your doing a poll in your own region. Here are instructions for doing your own election verification exit poll...

* Election Defense Alliance. The purpose of EDA is to help build and coordinate a comprehensive, cohesive national strategy for the election integrity movement, in order to regain public control of the voting process in the United States, and to insure that the process is honest, transparent, secure, subject to unambiguous verification, and worthy of the public trust.

* Verified Voting.org's Election Transparency Project. Do you wonder whether your vote counts? Are you losing faith in our electoral process? Do you think our elections are as accurate as they should be? Are you concerned that the results might be vulnerable to fraud or machine failure?

* VotersUnite.org. A non-partisan national grassroots resource for fair and accurate elections! We believe in the power of facts.

* Video the Vote. In 2000 and 2004, problems plagued the polls in different parts of the country: long lines, eligible voters turned away, voter intimidation, misallocation and malfunctioning of voting equipment. They were underreported on Election Day. Days and weeks later, a more complete picture of voter disenfranchisement emerged--but it was too late. The elections were over and the media had moved on. Starting this election, citizen journalists--people like you and I--will document problems as they occur. We'll play them online, spread word through blogs and partner websites, doing our part to make sure the full story of our elections is told.

* VelvetRevolution.us has launched an Election Protection Strike Force as a new approach to grassroots action, a multi-pronged campaign to put elections back in the hands of the people. The Election Protection Strike Force will target electronic voting problems and voter disenfranchisement schemes through: $250,000 ELECTION FRAUD REWARD FUND to encourage whistleblowers to share information about election rigging. This reward will be paid for information about election fraud leading to overturning a House or Senate. Hotline - call: 1-888 VOTETIP

If you know of any other Election Protection initiatives please list them below in comments.

Also check Alternet editor Don Hazen's excellent article "How to Stop the November Elections from Being Stolen" quoting democrats.com's own Bob Fertik...

...So what do you tell voters to help them combat this psychological problem that could depress voting? "I tell voters we have to win by such an overwhelming margin that it isn't close enough to steal," says Bob Fertik, the head of Democrats.com, an activist web site not part of the Democratic party, that calls themselves aggressive progressives...

...Democrats.com's Bob Fertik says, "We have to get involved in organized efforts to audit the elections by groups like www.ElectionDefenseAlliance.org, www.VelvetRevolution.us, www.BlackBoxVoting.org, etc. I'd also like to see Democratic voters hold candlelight vigils outside each county's board of elections after the polls close, holding signs saying 'Count Every Vote' and 'No More Stolen Elections!' Imagine a Blue Revolution, every bit as joyous and historic as the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Cedar Revolution Lebanon, the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia -- right here in the United States of America...."

Right on Sully:

Interestesting story in the Book of Revelations of the Christian canon...it reads 'out of the sea (many believe the people), the Beast would arise!

Bush and all other politicians come up out of the sea of people. We must somehow address the issue of the torn pysches of the American people. A nation with the power that America posesses, cannot place this kind of power in the hands of just anyone; look what has happened already in Iraq and Afghanistan and cosnider all of the innocent wounded, maimed and dead individuals. Our choices have put the whole world in peril!

Given the failure of institutions in America like the family, the government, church and many other organizations, too many Americans are turning to their respective politcal parties and their associated think tanks to teach them about morality, social, american and foreign policy.

How else could a man as unqualified as George Bush ever have become a President of a country? At best he should have been on the town Council in Crawford Texas or in the back woods of Connecticut!

And if the litmus test for who goes in the military and who goes to Washington is intelligence, we all know that George Bush should be a low-ranking military in the military. Of course I wouldn't want him on my team!

And again who has shown true disrespect for America's servicemen and veterans? So far Bush and his team have castigated, fired or embarassed the following:

Senator John McCain
Congressman John Murtha
Secretary of State Colin Powell
Senator John Kerry

Has anyone ever wondered why this man has attacked so many of America's service men? When his team swift-boated Mr. Kerry, did Mr. Bush make them stop or apologize?

I can't believe they are still letting Kerry be in politics after all the stupidity he showed in the 2004 campaign. People like Kerry should be sent to Iraq with all of our soldiers!
Posted by: Rena' Davis-Romeo | November 2, 2006 08:35 AM

Sure Kerry has said stupid things, but his words have killed no one, have not made this country weaker and have not lowered the morality of this country in the eyes of the world. If anyone deserves to be stationed in Iraq it should be Bush and Cheney to see what our soldiers are really going through, what the Iraqis are being put through and have time to think about what their policies have wrought.

I can't believe they are still letting Kerry be in politics after all the stupidity he showed in the 2004 campaign. People like Kerry should be sent to Iraq with all of our soldiers!

Dave wrote:
--We all hear what we want to hear. If you are pro-Bush, you are going to ignore the realities of the situation and read the text to the letter. If you are on the other side, you are going to assume that he made a slip of the tongue that did not reveal his point. Nobody ever accused Kerry of being the best public speaker in the world.--

That may be true for some but it is not true for all, certainly not me. I for one despise bush. He cannot do anything right in my mind. Also, I have a lot of respect for Kerry. I saw great insight and thought during his campaign in 2004 while other's eyes glazed over at his long winded answers to complex questions, unlike Bush's simplistic answers and emotional responses which were backed by little thought or analysis. Kerry would have made a great president.

However, after hearing and later watching Kerry speak, I have concluded he meant it as it came out. I believe that he diverted from his prepared text, but his words were solid. He did not fumble them. They came out clear and strong and he showed no sense that he screwed up what he meant to say. I understand exactly what Kerry meant. He said what we all know, that the military is a great opportunity for those with few other opportunities. A high school grad can join the military and get good training and have a decent life compared to what may be available to them otherwise. The steel mills are almost gone, the textile mills are completely gone, the family farm is being gobbled up by huge farming businesses, all of this leaving many kids with little future except scholorship or the miliary, especially for those with little financial resources, and scholorship will only be a feasible choice for a very few. Unfortunately today, the military means Iraq and I'm convinced Kerry meant to say that if you don't get a good education you may have to choose the military and get stuck in Iraq.

I don't think that was what Kerry initially meant to say though. I do believe the prepared text. But I do believe Kerry understands that being poor and uneducated leaves only a few options, the military being a very good one. So I think Kerry made a freudian slip, diverting from the text that said the president's lack of intelligence got us stuck in Iraq and instead saying that a student's intelligence and hard work can keep them out of the military and thus Iraq.

We've all made fun of Bush's slips, his obvious lack of any real intelligence beyond thinking in black&white. Kerry's slip is certainly worth noting as well. It did insult the soldiers and Kerry has rightly apologized and did his party a favor by crawling under a rock for a while. What is worth noting however is that while Kerry's action insulted soldiers, Bush's actions kills soldiers and innocent civilians as well. The republicans have little else to attack these days so they will continue their attack on Kerry's comments. Hopefully the American people will consider both Kerry's actions and the actions of this administration and the republican congress and then consider which is the more insulting, more damaging and more in need of correcting.

Please Mr. Kerry run for President again. It will make it so easy for the majority to vote republican again...

J.D.C.,

If your conclusion/supposition turns out to be true, it will simply mean that more men, women and children of the world (Including Americans) will be slaughtered, wounded or maimed as a result of gross Republican incompetence, malfeasance and misdirection.

Having said that, this Independent Voter is preparing himself for the possibility of such an outcome; if Hitler were still alive many Republicans would have voted for him given his preoccupation with world domination, similiar to Bush 41's, and the care that he took for his own Party. The Republican Reich today (The IV REICH) are no different than their predecessors!

Why? Similar to a bible story where the public was given a choice between Jesus, a man of principle, and Barabbas the murderer and thief, the crowd (like Republicans have shown on many occasions) preferred someone who was much in character like themselves, money-hungry murdereres and thieves. About 39% of American voters, mostly 'pubs are as responsible for the deaths of many innocent Iraqis and for stealing two once sovereign nations, Iraq and Afghanistan, as is their leader in crime!

JDC, Kerry is a man of character(perhaps not always skilled enough at campaigning against venal politicians), and let's not forget, a man who has served his country. Bush and his gaggle do not seem to care for or respect men who have served their country like Kerry, Murtha and remember what they did to John McCain and Colin Powell.

All of the world knows that Bush is not a man of characters, he is a liar and a self-interested politician who will even use religion and the name of Jesus Christ to help him to accomplish his own personal agenda.

Even conservative 'pubs have commented in retrospect that Kerry was right all along about how the war on so-called terrorism should have been fought.

You can make light and continue to support the Barabbas's of our present day world, but just think about it, if either Kerry or Gore had been elected it is likely that about 600,000 people en toto, of all nations and races of the world would not be wounded, maimed, homeless or dead!

Please Mr. Kerry run for President again. It will make it so easy for the majority to vote republican again.Were you the Best the democrates could get to run? Couldn't you read the joke that was written for you?

Postscript....

Educated or uneducated, draft or an all voluntary army, these folks are not only stuck in Iraq, they are dying in Iraq.

And where is Bush? He is out working the campaign trails so that he can ensure that they many of them will be there stuck and dying two years from now.

Wake up folks, Kerry is not the problem Bush is the problem and he simply wants the attention off of what he is doing!

It is a shame....

.......... because this man's heart is in the right place, just as Al Gore's heart was in the right place a couple of elections ago, and neither of the two are demagogues like Bush nor do either of them possess the intellectual incompetence of a George Bush.

These two men simply are not knowledgeable enough to deal with the venal sleazy and corrupt politicians that come from the Right (remember Tom Delay), the same opportunist who have or have held a stranglehold on the American government; the same vermin who are or who have held the world hostage for about 4 years now.

Having said that, neither Gore nor Kerry have anything to be ashamed of with respect to their many faux pas', these people simply do not know how to deal with Devil(s); they do not understand that every word that proceeds out of their mouths will be held and used against them. I can remember the uproar when Kerry spoke during the election debates about Cheney's lesbian daughter. I loved it when the Religious Right, the same group that is wreaking havoc on the homosexual community temporarily altered their course to attack Kerry.

I suppose that the politically correct thing for Kerry to do was to apologize in order to minimize the damage that the pub's intended to extract given comments; look how quickly they created the ad to disparage Kerry by using his message and the troops for their political purposes. Factually, there are a lot of undereducated and underemployed Americans that have turned to the military in hopes of getting a leg up. And many are chagrined, as Mr. Kerry pointed out, that they ended up in Iraq.

I can see that the next two elections are going to be even nastier than the ones that took place over the past 6 years. Last week it was Michael J. Fox being attacked by a substance abuser, and this week we have a man who fought for and served his country now for about 30 years, being once again castigated by a couple of scoundrels, Bush, and McCain. The latter is clearly a man who wants to be President even if it means kissing up to Jerry Falwell or by attacking his former comrade-in-arms, the same man who once attacked himself by the same group of 'pubs. I suppose for some like McCain, if you can't beat them you drink the kool-aid!

Bush needs to apologize for being whatever he is, and it is not 'being born again'!

While there are some interesting questions about the relative education level of members of the US military, the answers to such questions are simple facts. In particular, if people really care what the facts are they can go look them up. Given the intensity of the debate it seems unlikely that this is the real issue.

The stereotype of military personal is that they have a simple world view that includes concepts of honor and heroism. The stereotype of academics is that they have a nuanced world view that question concepts like honor and heroism.

The most recent presidential elections have been characterized as being divided between rural areas that favored a simple world view and urban areas that favored a complex world view.

Now that the Bush administration policies in Iraq seem to be failing, it calls into question the simple world view used to justify those policies.

Maybe this debate is less about the military and more about the validity of a simple world view that includes concepts of honor and heroism.

Found this on a conservative blog (sopebocks.blogspot.com):

In his Washington Post column Early Warning, William Arkin writes, "If anyone is proof positive that a good education has nothing to do with being stuck in Iraq, it's John Kerry. The Massachusetts senator removed the silver spoon from his mouth just long enough to insert foot..." Mr. Arkin is dead on -- Senator Kerry stook his foot way down his throat yesterday.
Arkin added, "Kerry at first dismissed his remarks as a 'botched joke' meant to be about president and his people -- what, they (Cheney and Rumsfeld) are high school drop-outs? Kerry then said that it was the president and Congress who owed the troops an apology for 'rubber stamping ... policies that have done injury to our troops and to their families.' " Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Senator John Kerry one of the members of "Congress" who voted FOR the war in Iraq?!? Yeah, I thought so. This guy can't seem to decide which side of his mouth to talk out of.
Arkin's column goes on to say, "Finally Kerry released a statement: 'If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy.' " So, the writers of more than 1,500 articles and blogs, many college educated Republicans and even several prominent members of the Democratic party are "crazy"? What are you trying to say Mr. Kerry?
Kerry's statement added, "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did." This same "veteran" DID criticize the troops -- even those he fought beside -- by protesting the Vietnam War (not to mention throwing his medals away as part of said protest).
So, should we put this all behind us? John Kerry can't seem to decide what to do -- other than ramp up the rhetoric AND continue to make a fool of himself. First, he says he will apologize and even claimed to have apologized (on Don Imus' radio show) -- even though no one has actually heard an apology from his lips. Now, Kerry says he has no intention of apologizing. "As a combat veteran, I know the dedication, integrity and commitment of American troops," he said. If that's the case Senator Kerry, why did you call them uneducated and lazy?
William Arkin offers an answer, "...the Kerry mindset is that the soldiers must be uneducated to serve in Iraq, and thus need his leadership to get out. What is more, Kerry seems to believe in his heart that only a veteran can claim the right to lead and defend the troops, a kind of military club dictatorship that has no place in American society. ... The notion that only Kerry or his combat wounded ilk are qualified to speak to, or on behalf of the troops, is politically dangerous and insulting." Agreed!

Why don't you print the entire quote. I'm tired of this 3 second media crap. Something is taken out of context and reported as true over and over. If I want crap I'll watch Springer. Are ther ANY REAL journalists left?? Mr Arkin is not one. http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/11/keith_olbermann_the_great_dist.html
"Mr Bush now lives in the state of denial...the state of deception..we're here to talk about education...and I want to say something before".....MEDIA QUOTE You people are so freakin' lazy!

Why don't you print the entire quote. I'm tired of this 3 second media crap. Something is taken out of context and reported as true over and over. If I want crap I'll watch Springer. Are ther ANY REAL journalists left?? Mr Arkin is not one. http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/11/keith_olbermann_the_great_dist.html
"Mr Bush now lives in the state of denial...the state of deception..we're here to talk about education...and I want to say something before".....MEDIA QUOTE You people are so freakin' lazy!

Kerry is reverting to his Vietnam roots because he is trying to put some perspective on this media blitz he mistakenly got himself into. This is PR and nothing more, people! He is hoping that voters will see that he actually does support the troops and therefore people will believe him when he says that this was a botched joke. I, personally, believe him. He was trying to bash Bush, saying that if bush had actually studied his history, he may have anticipated these major hurdles in Iraq.

We all hear what we want to hear. If you are pro-Bush, you are going to ignore the realities of the situation and read the text to the letter. If you are on the other side, you are going to assume that he made a slip of the tongue that did not reveal his point. Nobody ever accused Kerry of being the best public speaker in the world.

Senator Kerry's comment was unnecessary and gratuitous. A smart politician would never have said it. And trying to explain it made the situation worse.

That being said, Kerry is right. It is a no-brainer that kids should study hard because it gives them more options in life. And, I am sorry, but many of the troops in Iraq are stuck there because they had less options and joined the military instead.

But ultimately, who is more disrespectful of our troops? President Bush for his unnecessary war that has got almost 3,000 killed and scores more injured, along with who knows how many thousands of Iraquis? Or Senator Kerry for his remarks?

That too is a no-brainer for me. And any American who decides to vote Republican because of this ridiculous "scandal", when Senator Kerry is not even on the ballot, is also a no-brainer.

Well, when did this blog become so reactionary, last I checked it was called Early Warning. Well anyway, what Bill forgot to mention is that Kerry's comments are rehashing the tired old left-wing myth that only poor people are sent to fight wars. This tired old quasi-Marxist rhetoric is as incorrect as it is overplayed. The same goes for the 'blacks were over-drafted' lark from the same era. The Amry has always been majority white and is not primarily filled by the poor, especially not now when so many combat troops are National Guardsmen or reservists, what crap. And please, all those who will surely try and lambaste me over this, don't parse up the army by using words like, a 'majority of enlisted men' or something similar to try and make your argument. Divisions like that are hollow, misleading, and inaccurate. What is really sad is that Kerry still buys into that garbage today.

Arkin is absolutely right in pointing out that more troops won't solve the 'problem' in Iraq. Neither will withdrawl for that matter, further showing that while the Republican party has bad ideas, the Democrats have none at all. If our goal is going to be a stable and somewhat democratic Iraq then the only thing to do is to stay and keep out foreign invaders, other than us, while the Iraqis reconcile their internal issues themselves. It will be costly, bloody, and ugly but it is entirely necessary both as a model for other areas of the world and to finally remove a sponsor of Islamist radicals and terrorists.

Now before some of you immediately begin to shout about my use of the word 'model', let me explain. The current International System has been by and large a failure in bringing about world peace. Instituionalism is not working and has not worked almost from its inception. The promary reason that international intervention failed from Rwanda to Lebanon is because the UN has focused on stopping the violence and not resolving the conflict. Stopping the violence can be done directly by an international force. Conflict resolution can only be done by the parties involved. For example, the only times when any headway has ever been made in the Israeli-Arab conflict has been when both sides sat down and talked face to face. The international community, in conflicts the world over, needs to put as much focus on resolution of conflict as it does on ending physical violence. I readily admit that conflict resolution is exponentially harder than peacekeeping, but it must be done if International Institutionalism is to succeed. This is what I mean by 'model' in regards to Iraq.

The only way to end the violence there is for the Iraqis to reconcile their various internal disputes. They cannot do that if they are being constantly pushed and pulled by outside forces. The job of the US, and ultimately the UN, is to keep them safe enough from outside interference that they can do so. Timetables are irrelevant and unproductive and withdrawal is a fancy word for quitting. What the Bush Administration needs to do is work with the Iraqi government and give them the help they need in resolving their internal disputes. They need to find a balance between aiding and puppteering if Iraq is ever going to be anything other than chaotic. This balance will not be some static thing that can be determined by one of Rummy's metrics or some think tank's theory. It is something that must be developed and maintained over time. This will require time, and no one can say how much, but giving up will certainly result in one thing: more slaughter, not of US troops but of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and any other country whose troops or citizens go there. This has happened twice before and both times resulted in genocide for both Rwanda and Yugoslavia. American withdrawal will save at best a few thousand American lives at the cost of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives. Bush is right when he says the cost for leaving Iraq is too great not to pay the price for staying. But we won't pay for leaving, Iraq and the International System will.

Trust always in Reason

Archimedes

The reason Kerry's words are even being discussed at such great length and being given such importance is that the republicans have insulated the effects of this war and their other policies from the American people. They do not reach into the pockets of Americans to tax them for their war, instead they borrow the money from China, and will in the future, slam any democrat that has to vote a tax increase to pay back the Chinese.

The American people are not feeling any effect of this war except those with friends and family on the military. The suffering of average Americans under this war pales by comparison to Korea, Vietnam and WW2. How many of you actually have a different life than before Bush declared this war? Except for those touched by the military I would guess none, or maybe even a better life thanks to the billions this government is wasting on military hardware, fuel, equipment and direct support (Halliburton).

We can talk about the war but its not like we might be drafted next week, like we might be invaded next week or like we might not have our computers, gasoline and iPods next week due to rationing. The skillful insulation of Americans from this war has allowed it to rage unabated with the American people happily disengaged.

So when Kerry says a gaffe, the republicans pounce because they do not want to talk about their own gaffes:
-WMD? ... opps, what WMD?
-Abu Graib? ... opps, what pictures?
-Debt ceiling ... no problem, we'll just raise it!
-Foley was a pedophile? Who knew?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem with America today is not Bush, the republicans, bad intelligence or Congress. The problem with America today is the American people have stopped thinking and acting like Americans. They do not determine the government's direction anymore. They feel its "out of their hands". They could care less if a war is happening as long as nothing changes in their lives so the republicans have worked hard to make that the case. Americans do not even care that they were lied to by their government and their government continues to lie to them. Americans today are more like the Russians under the Soviets, feeling totally disengaged and helpless. The only difference is the Russians were forced by their government to live that reality. Today's Americans are choosing to live it.

The reason Kerry's words are even being discussed at such great length and being given such importance is that the republicans have insulated the effects of this war and their other policies from the American people. They do not reach into the pockets of Americans to tax them for their war, instead they borrow the money from China, and will in the future, slam any democrat that has to vote a tax increase to pay back the Chinese.

The American people are not feeling any effect of this war except those with friends and family on the military. The suffering of average Americans under this war pales by comparison to Korea, Vietnam and WW2. How many of you actually have a different life than before Bush declared this war? Except for those touched by the military I would guess none, or maybe even a better life thanks to the billions this government is wasting on military hardware, fuel, equipment and direct support (Halliburton).

We can talk about the war but its not like we might be drafted next week, like we might be invaded next week or like we might not have our computers, gasoline and iPods next week due to rationing. The skillful insulation of Americans from this war has allowed it to rage unabated with the American people happily disengaged.

So when Kerry says a gaffe, the republicans pounce because they do not want to talk about their own gaffes:
-WMD? ... opps, what WMD?
-Abu Graib? ... opps, what pictures?
-Debt ceiling ... no problem, we'll just raise it!
-Foley was a pedophile? Who knew?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem with America today is not Bush, the republicans, bad intelligence or Congress. The problem with America today is the American people have stopped thinking and acting like Americans. They do not determine the government's direction anymore. They feel its "out of their hands". They could care less if a war is happening as long as nothing changes in their lives so the republicans have worked hard to make that the case. Americans do not even care that they were lied to by their government and their government continues to lie to them. Americans today are more like the Russians under the Soviets, feeling totally disengaged and helpless. The only difference is the Russians were forced by their government to live that reality. Today's Americans are choosing to live it.

People: enough already. Whichever "side" we take on this, we're using our soldiers for political points.

Drop it. Get out and vote on Tuesday, and don't vote for Kerry or Bush: They're not up for election this year.

Guess what. Kerry was right in his comments. Just as with von Clausewitz, however, it depends upon the context. In the 60's, kids *were* trying to work hard and keep their noses clean to avoid Vietnam. For that time, rightfully so; no government should have to force its citizenry to fight and die except in the most dire of situations. Kerry is a product of that era, as is President Bush. The obvious modern-day retort to Kerry's remarks is that "our troops are competent, capable, and intelligent enough" and that "it's an all-volunteer force". Both are true, but I didn't see any troops in February 2003 itching to go independently of the Republican clamorings for war. Also, our troops *are* among the most well-educated, ingenious, and lethally effective professional soldiers to ever exist - greater than the legions of Rome, greater than the Wehrmacht - there is not a square inch on this planet that we could not decimate. That lethality is further tempered with the compassion and honor imbued only in a person who is the finest product of what a democratic society has to offer.

In rebuttal to Kerry's remarks, sure, I'll agree that many people work hard, are exceptionally bright, do well, and still volunteer for combat service. *I did*. I was a Sergeant in the National Guard and a college student at the same time. I could have gotten out of my unit when we were alerted, but I stayed, fought with my unit, and lost a very lucrative job offer to do so. Another example would be Senator Kerry. People with connections like his always have the option of avoiding combat service. The guy is a Yale graduate! He still volunteered for commissioned service, and additionally volunteered for combat service; fighting, killing, and being wounded himself. Sometimes, people with those connections don't always serve, they become History-Channel-Generals, or Chickenhawks. They "had other priorities in the 60s than military service" like Dick Cheney, or had their well-connected father get them into the Texas Air Guard's Champagne Squadron to avoid Vietnam service like Bush. I discount his service. He is *not* a veteran.

Like him or not, love him or hate him (I'm ambivalent, politically), John Kerry's been "DOWNRANGE" or "OUTSIDE THE WIRE" as we call it. For those of you who come closest to combat service by watching the History Channel or talking to the neighbor's triple-amputee kid and feeling "really sad" as you drive away in your gas-guzzling ribbon-magnet-laden SUV, John Kerry knows what it's like to live with the fear of a violent death befalling him at any moment in an unfamiliar land, like so many of our troops. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Tony Snow, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly... and so many more do not.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." (Orwell)

Perhaps only those "rough men" should be the only ones allowed to speak with any authority on this travesty of a war and pitiful Potemkin's Village of national mobilization to support it.

Bad joke or not, John Kerry will always be among a brotherhood of "rough men" who have done violence on our behalf. While American boys were dying in the mud for trumped-up intelligence (Gulf of Tonkin = WMDs), George Bush was doing lines of coke off a toilet seat at an Alabama kegger.

Arkin says that Kerry's military experiance does not matter. I was in the Navy for six years and that experiance pays off everyday for me in my job and personal life. Reguarding the comment on how we don't need as many troops as we did in the past, my best friend from the Navy, who is a college professor now, and remained in the Navy Reserve, has been activated to provide security in Kuwait. We were submarine sailors back in the day. Hows that smaller military working out? Also, another friend who is in the National Guard has been activated to spend a year in Iraq. Who's replaceing the National Guard? Also again, one of my best friends from college joined the army and became an intelligence officer. He was killed a few months ago by a roadside bomb. I'm not very happy about that. So, any defense of the Bush administration's great handling of Iraq is very upsetting. Even my mom knew that invading that country was a bad idea, and she voted for Bush.

Dear jameskpolka:

Great comments that ring true & honest.

You should run against Kerry in the primary next time. There is nothing wrong with challenging an entrenched candidate just because he's in a position to help the party you belong to, that is, nothing wrong with contesting the primary of your own party's encumbant. Ask yourself this question: does Kerry do more to help or hurt the Dems nationally? And make a run.

See a tongue-in-cheek posting that employs the same GOP tactic used in relation to Senator Kerry to creatively interpret remarks made by the President in the most unfavorable manner...here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com/2006/10/bush_endorses_malpractice_sexual_assault.php

He's a stupid and an addled sort of a person.

Though he had the finest education -- American and Swiss -- money can buy, he reeks of the lazy preppie who knows his future will be smooth and easy, and so never felt compelled to do the hard work to master any difficult subject. Public service has never changed that mindset.

I'd challenge Kerry's most obsessive worshipper to quote one sentence Kerry ever spoke or wrote which deserves being chiseled in stone. From his mouth have come decades of the most forgettable and insubstantial blather.

What the physicist said about a new theory is what you can say about Kerry's Collected Speeches and Writings: "It's not even *wrong*."

I live in Massachusetts, but I never voted *for* the guy.

I voted *against* opponents who would have been worse.

It's scary to believe he would have made a better president than the guy we have now. That doesn't speak to Bush and Kerry -- it speaks to the entire pool of top-tier political talent and intellect in America, their ability to think, their ability to communicate ideas, their ability to inspire people.

Kerry -- who spends more on his hair than I spend to keep my truck on the road, including insurance -- Simonized an image for himself from old photos of John F. Kennedy.

It was easy to want to vote for Kennedy. It was easy to want to follow him -- into the Peace Corps, into space. Once he led us to the brink of nuclear war, we followed with fear and dread -- but nobody criticized his brain or leadership during the Cuban Missile Crisis. When it ended, Americans kept or even increased their confidence in Kennedy's leadership.

It was easy to listen to his speeches, and it's been easy to remember his words.

Regardless of who actually wrote them. If anybody's in an equal position to hire great speechwriters, it's Kerry -- but he doesn't even have the wit to spend his money on competent speechwriters. This week's dopiness is typical of what's spilled out of a mouth people have every right to conclude is dumb and confused.

Kerry was a silly war hero, who learned odd, confused lessons from a silly war. He wanted voters to think of him simultaneously as an aggressive Communist-killing combat warrior for America, and as a dedicated antiwar activist -- John Wayne and John Lennon rolled into one.

That's hard for a single voter to grok in a single human brain at the same time. Kerry's Vietnam legacy is every bit what you'd expect the Vietnam legacy of a rich, privileged preppie temporarily forced into uniform would be.

When a White House guest praised his war heroism, Kennedy replied (ad lib, no writer): "It was involuntary. They sank my boat."

Though rich and privileged, every real veteran laughed and connected. They saw a real American hero -- a guy who does his job, but never went out of his way to win medals. A hero with a healthy, sane focus on surviving, for himself and for all the men he commanded.

Kerry -- what was on his mind in his Swift Boat year? Whatever it was, it was odd, fuzzy, unfocused. He wanted his War Hero ticket punched for future ambitions. He wanted rugged, grinning photos of himself with his combat crew like the WWII Pacific photos that had worked such magic for Kennedy.

Yeah, Kerry consistently gets my vote. That's political leadership in America this season. That's the talent pool.

I believe if your perspective starts with one side being completely wrong about everything and one side being completely right... you no longer can form an objective opinion about anything.

This all started by Kerry trying to play the cheap "Bush is an idiot" line the lefties just *love* to hear. You see, it is easier to just call someone an idiot then try to understand or debate their potentially honest thinking around an issue (whether you agree or disagree with it eventually).

It then turned into the rights favorite "Dems hate the military"... which, again, is an easier slogan to repeat then to try to actually argue why their potentially legit concerns and perspectives on the issues is not your preferred path.

It seems to me America does not want to hear two sides taking honest, yet separate views on an issue. We are an NFL society who demands the world be ruled by "good guys" and "bad guys" and only the good guys have true answers. We have no patience for actually trying to understand a different perspective and potentially challenging our own perspectives with those insights prior to just "picking sides" and then deciding who the "evil idiots" are that now disagree with our approach.

So we are left with goofed "he is an idiot" one liners and "he is an army hater" returns... because, it appears, thats what America wants.

Iraq is a very complex issue spurned by 9/11. Very smart and well meaning individuals thought to fundementally change the future fate of our country a fundemental shift in the mid-east was required. That shift required democracy to take root. They sold that rather grand plan on the "cheap" by playing to the "doom is near" card... but I truly believe the thinking on this issue ran much deeper. This created a very aggressive, but risky, foreign policy. Other intelligent and well meaning folks had legit concerns this plan would not work. Unfortunately, I believe the average citizen was removed from this entire debate and left with just "nukes are coming" and "Bush is an idiot" type taglines in which to digest. Shame... because both sides have a very legit, meaningful set of issues to discuss here... we just might never hear them regardless of these elections.

"There isn't a draft anymore."

Really? Tell that to the guys kept in the service through stop-loss or called up after decades in the inactive reserve. No draft? You're kidding, right?

As for Kerry, why are his comments on anything considered relevant? Despite Bush's clear inadequacies shown in '04, the country said they preferred W. to JFKII. IMHO Kerry was the only Democrat who would have lost to Bush, primarily because veterans--regardless of their politics--nearly universally loath him.

But let's face it--his comments no longer warrant national attention while W.'s screwups do.

The real uneducated people in all this are those who voted bush in 2000 and again in 2004. Everything he did after that is your fault.

So many posts supporting Sen. Kerry, but, that makes one wonder how come Bush won the election. Only one thing you can make up from this piece, that is, the liberals/democrats are mostly internet and news savvy while the opposite is true for conservatives and republicans!. Republicans get their source from GOP directly and hence know only that version which also continues to keep them loyal to the GOP party!.

SUPPORT YOUR PRESIDENT AND THE LEGISLATERS WHO VOTED TO ENTER THIS WAR. IF YOU SUPPORTED THIS WAR IN THE BEGINing, AND NOW YOU FEEL YO MADE A STUPID DECICISION, THEN BE MAN ENOUGH TO SAY "I MADE A STUPID BLUNDER WHEN I ARGREED TO AND VOTED FOR THIS WAR" AND TELL US HOW YOU BLUNDERED! IT IS REDICULIOUS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO TAKE STOCK IN SOME ONE WHO WANTS IT BOTH WAYS, I.E. LOVE ME FOR WANTING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT 911 AND VOTE FOR ME IF I SAY I DIDNT REALLY MEAN I SUPPORT "THIS" WAR WHEN I CAST MY VOTE.
And never dispariage the troops!
Only a bitter fool with his or her own ajenda would put down the troops as a whole. They volunteered to protect even the idiots that can't see that they need to be protected. Our servicemen and women are not bias to who they protect.

I thank the AMERICAN public for voting the last election as they did. Can you imagine the problems we would be in now if "he" had got elected?

I liked Kerry's reaction comments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/washington/31cnd-kerry.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1162357200&en=d44ba9d520dbfebc&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin

"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," Mr. Kerry said in a statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did."

"I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed-suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq," Mr. Kerry went on. "It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have."

Ouch, guys. Maybe the Washington post could start debating "real men" instead of confusing the issue with garbage like this article.

Arkin, you have sold your soul for what? Polarizing our country to the point of no return?!? I don't get it. I just don't understand how you can sleep at night. Because of people like you I know I can't. It feels like every time trash like this gets amplified, people's hate grows, and the polarity strengthens its grasp on our nations neck. Every time this happens it's a dagger in my heart. I love this country. I won't beat my chest like you might, screaming I'm a patriot. That's for fascists. I will go on, quietly loving my country and doing what I can to heal it from traitors like you.

First, the intended statement was, "If you don't [study], then you get _us_ stuck in Iraq. Just ask President Bush." That "us" is important, as it means Kerry was refering to the President as an example of intellectual laziness that negatively affected the rest of the world. As a linguist I know that the "us" is not a stressed syllable in that sentence, and that if you listened to a recording of Kerry's comment, it would be difficult to tell whether "us" was there or not /yugetustukniraq/.

That was the first point now my second point is, wow, I really wish the media would take a course in logic. Even if Kerry _did_ say, "If you are lazy, then you get stuck in Iraq," that statement in no way implies that the only way to get into Iraq with the US military is to be lazy. Politicians and the media have been talking as if an, "If lazy, then Iraq," statement was equivalent to an, "If Iraq, then lazy," statement, and simple predicate logic tells us that these statements are not equivalent. The relationship between those statements is the same as the relationship between, "If you are my father, then you are a man," and, "If you are a man, then you are my father." Any two-year old knows that not all men are his father, so why is it that William M. Arkin and The Washington Post (and plenty of other politicians and media) persist in this exact logical fallacy?

In other words, the Kerry mindset is that the soldiers must be uneducated to serve in Iraq

The fact is that you're in fact discussing non-issue. It is obvious from the fuller piece that he was, indeed, speaking about Bush:

And it's also quite obvious that those that put out this 10 sec. piece were knowingly manipulating the story, and Tony Snow & Bush went for it. You could see this at Tony's briefing -- he was running from this issue.

Now, when you know that this was a manipulation, and the release of that piece was timed for the Bush speech, it's quite obvious that this was a big and cynical propaganda effort, just what Kerry declared it to be.

At least Arkin is up front about his agenda: he doesn't like Kerry and doesn't consider him presidential material. Neither do I, but then Bush isn't presidential material either... by a long shot. But regarding "the remarks," I interpreted them to mean that if you don't study hard, you will have fewer economic opportunities, and joining the military may become your only option for earning a paycheck. This is borne out not by the number of officers with advanced degrees, but by the fact that the military habitually recruits in the poorest neighborhoods, hoping to snag poor kids with few prospects. I don't know the number of enlisted men and women who "volunteered" because they were hoping to learn some useful economic skills, but it is substantial. "Stuck in Iraq?" It's also well known that enlisted men and women are forced to stay in well beyond their original time commitments. Many are on their second or third tour in Iraq involuntarily. In addition, Bush has every intention of keeping us in Iraq for the foreseeable future. Kerry could have been more artful in his comments, but who cares? This non-issue shows once again that the Republicans have no record to run on. And where does Arkin get his information that we need much fewer troops for combat these days? The generals don't agree. This is just another Rumsfeld talking point.

Hello stupids... Kerry was talking about Bush's lack of knowledge in world history (middle east in particular) that got him into Iraq. He was not talking about the troops. Read the quote again and again. That having been said, Kerry does have a remarkable ability to misstate and confuse. Oy Vey!

The problem with Democrats...

There are many excellent comments in this thread demonstrating MOST people understand the political mind-f*@& being perpetrated on the American citizens and the entire world.

If you look at your local Border's Bookstore you will find dozens, if not hundreds of books demonstrating the same phenomenon.

Why is it we American citizens can understand and even speak clearly to the problem, but we can't seem to do anything about it?

Lets make DAMN sure we change congress next week and the presidency two years after that. Enough pointing at the monster and then heading off to have dinner.

Oh, and Arkin? Who the hell are you and why are you being given a live microphone?

EMI

Look, I am a democrat and want the Dems to win back congress.

But I must say that what Kerry did was incredibly stupid! And it shows yet again why he is not qualified to be President of the United States. Not in 2004 and not in 2008.

He should have just apologized and said that if it was taken to be an attack on the IQ of our troops, he did not mean it, and apologized for the hurt it has caused.
Period. End of crisis.

But no, he tries to be defiant. Wrong response, wrong time. Should have done that to the swift boat veterans not now.

At this point, even Gore looks better than him.

Peter

Look, I am a democrat and want the Dems to win back congress.

But I must say that what Kerry did was incredibly stupid! And it shows yet again why he is not qualified to be President of the United States. Not in 2004 and not in 2008.

He should have just apologized and said that if it was taken to be an attack on the IQ of our troops, he did not mean it, and apologized for the hurt it has caused.
Period. End of crisis.

But no, he tries to be defiant. Wrong response, wrong time. Should have done that to the swift boat veterans not now.

At this point, even Gore looks better than him.

Peter

Unlike most of the comments here, I agree with what's been said in this article. I hate Kerry and his mouth. That's not to say that I'm a 100% bush supporter either. I agree with much of what he's done, but it's my right to disagree with whatever I want.

We are stuck in Iraq, no doubt about it. That's because of Iraq's request that we don't "cut and run" as Kerry suggested during the last presidential election.

I read one comment where a reader suggested that all soldiers are "stuck" in Iraq and are serving beyond their enlistment date. Well, two points:

1. any soldier can get out of the military. It's just that they either don't know how or are unwilling to accept the consequences of the abandonment of their duty and oath.

2. In the contract that they sign, all soldiers are told that the government reserves the right to reactivate and/or extend the t