They can start by taking out the evil Echelon system.

Damn us for trying to inflict the evils of freedom and liberty on others ...like socialism or dictatorships.

Daved,

Surely, you can not be that naiive or superficial!

The Rev,
" a behemoth and a juggernaut nation that is attempting to force its will and designs upon other nations of the world, whether those other nations like it or not!"

Damn us for trying to inflict the evils of freedom and liberty on others. And promoting that market economy has to stop! The Rev would, i guess, rather have the US continue to subsidize and send money to those countries that endorse "alternative lifestyles" like socialism or dictatorships.

Was Hagel correct?

Isn't all of this in a broader sense still about, 'ownership of property and the pusuit of power through class struggle', when you narrow it down to its least common denominator?

I like it REV!!! You are correct, there really has been no counterweight to U.S. actions/influence since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Thank you Mik

Anyone can see that more and more America is sliding towards becoming what we once critcized about other opportunistic nations in recent and past history - a behemoth and a juggernaut nation that is attempting to force its will and designs upon other nations of the world, whether those other nations like it or not!

And just like a person who is surrounded by 'yes men', a nation surrounded by 'yes nations' will never accept no for an answer.

Someone has to balance the juggernaut, given that our purported leaders do not appear to care about what American citizens have to say. Hopefully, the counter-balancers will behave in more just manner than we have of late!

Tacitus and GarageOwl, y'all are a scary bunch of closed-minded jingoist racists. If I could live in Europe right now, I would give it some serious thought.

Tacticus......I am actually quite well educated and for as far back as I can remember I have loved to learn military history, everything from weapon type used to strategy to intangible impacts. I was actually very very suprised to read that I do not know military history prior to 1900. What inaccuracy did I state to have given such an impression to you?

PS. If this is regarding my comment about only Germany and England having earned some respect for battlefield ability and you can think of a country to add let me know(I did actually consider including Switzerland with Germany and England but I believed most everyone would not realize how very serious I was to include them and in addition I am not sure anyone would truly understand why...who else (that's deserving) did I miss?
-Do Not Say France Either!! I do not have the time to show you the facts and explain why they are actually so completely worthless as a military force(now and in the past....including Napoleon!! Anyway, let me know why u think I do not know military matters prior to 1900.

> Europeans are only interested in enjoying , partying , boozing >and have little or no interest in fighting against threat of Islamic >radicalism

Oh no, how terrible! We should stop boozing and start invading countries like Iraq then? Hey! let's kill half a million people! that's a sure way to international peace.

America is an immature country, and it shows in it's adolescent behaviour.

Europeans should be ashamed of themselves; so you're saying America should have let the West Germans starve to death when the Russians cut them off, causing the Berlin Air lift. Oh Bono the EU mouth piece moves from Ireland to avoid paying taxes while blaming Africa's AIDS problem on the lack of American money. Wait! Did America stop to feed these people in Ethiopia? You bet your bottom Euro. Did the European Slave Traders do it, no? Why should the US pay 25 plus % of the UN bill? Is that fair? America is victim of its own success, socialists don't reward success; they tax it. Give it to the weak reward conformity and kill entrepreneurship. Stab the US in the back, and beg to move to America the home of the free, land of the brave. Protest the G8 while pulling up in Volvo or Mercedes. I wonder how many of protesters there live in G8 Countries, @#%#$ hypocrites it's ridicules. Yes, Americans work to hard to get ahead, but don't hate us, we're mostly white and England's top is baby name is now Muhammad. I'm not a bigot but they're trying to restart the Crusades and this time they're armed with French built Nuclear Weapons

Weren't the Nanzii' Libral Socialists? Didn't the French given without firing a shot? The French aren't in NATO BTW. They refused to sign. Didn't French Colonialism cause most of the problems in Northern Africa, and didn't it cause wars like Vietnam? Are the French building Nuclear reactors for the crazy nuts, just to make to make a Euro? No wonder why Americans resent those good for nothing 30 hour a week working loosers with 10-12% unemployment. Just think how Earth works! Nature doesn't reward the weak, it culls them mercilessly. The press in America refuses to call a spade a spade and stop the killing of people who believe in God and Jesus. Most the people should be ashamed of themselves the next time they open a Christmas gift or eat and Easter dinner. Stop thinking with your small head and the face the truth, hedonism is bad and so is the left. There are people trying to kill us all, and they're not going to stop with words. In grade school did you stop bully by giving him your lunch money? Face it now or get on ready to wash you feet and pray to foreign god.

Tacticus: It's funny you "see" I'm drunk
My advice: Believe what you can 'really' see NOT what your shallow fantasy 'imagines'.
Maybe YOU should have a drink to calm down your percolating RAGE.

Aha - I see you are drunk! Enjoy!

Tacticus: Why not try to control your unfounded rage? It spills all over for no apparent reason.

MARVEL
Are you drunk?

I should respect people with no education who want to debate military history and international politics? Why? Is because you are one of them and you want my respect. Well then - type something interesting or intelligent then.

You do not need money to learn to read or borrow a book from a library. Not in the US or Europe.

You say
'Most of 'them' are soldiers dying in the battlefield. Something you seem more comfortable avoiding.'

You aseem to assume soldiers have no education. Is that in reference to the US military?

What makes you think that the person I was addressing is in the military anyway?

That is exactly the kind of laughable comment that I would expect from a republican American isolationist. It's a very Nazi feel to it - the military elevated to a near holy status and any comment or debate lowered to a moronic adulation for uniforms.

Tacticus: I would suggest to have MORE respect to those who could not afford college.
Most of 'them' are soldiers dying in the battlefield. Something you seem more comfortable avoiding.

MIK
I am sorry for you that your British father has taken you to a small shed and hurt you using leather belts. I hope that professional help will let you get over this and move on to an existance unhaunted by dreams of woodsheds and beatings.

Your grasp of history seems so slim that I am under the impression that you may not have completed secondary education. I suggest you restrain from commenting on history when your knowledge evidently excludes the period 500BC-1900AD.

Radical Islamics ARE the greatest threat in the world today - they murder, maim and butcher and stupid Westerners seem oblivious to it. Seems people are convinced that it's somehow ok, because they don't agree with the Bush administration, or Tony Blair, or whatever!! These Islamics are not brave men on a field of battle, they are sneaky murderers, bloodthirsty hatemongers, who will kill your wives and children while smiling from a false face. They indoctrinate their women and children to throw their lives away in support of their murderous assaults!! These poor, deceived zealots believe God will reward them for murderous behavior!! Sick and deceived.

Americans were horrified by Jim Jones' Jonestown nightmare - radical Islamics are far more terrible than Jim Jones!!!

EXPAT REBUTS

The military history of the US is so short that with the possible exception of the first us of the Atomic bomb it is inconsequential. Europe has hosted so many great empires that have dominated western civilisation for the last 2000 years. Let us not forget military 'greats' such Alexander through Caesar to Napoleon (the list is near infinite) that it really is laughable that you would consider conflicts such as your war of independence, shoving war with Mexico, civil war, contribution to WW1, Vietnam etc as anything other than pathetic compared to the military history of the former great European powers. The greatest contribution to WW2 was the first use of the atomic bomb - something in it's own right that should have ended the foolishness of conventional warfare. The second greatest contribution in WW2 was your manufacturing capacity at the time. Your military contribution was somewhat less than other nations involved, unsurprisingly as you arrived late.

I think you may be under the impression that I believe a military approach to the planet is a good idea. I don't. I do believe that European military tradition should Europe choose the terrible route of militarisation would result in a force and population that accepts mass slaughter as a consequence of war. This is where US military tradition has limited experience particularly as applied to civilians. Anyone who advocates a re-militarisation of Europe is a fool because a militarised Europe has caused the two greatest wars the world has ever seen. You let that devil from it's cage and you would need a lot more than the good old US of A to put it back.

Of course in an age of nuclear weapons that can be delivered from space and terrorism I personally find it moronic to think that increasing conventional force capacity does anything other than make the world a more unstable place and up tax bills.

With regard to terrorism - Europe has been dealing with the ETA, Red brigades, Baeder Meinhof, Red Army faction, PIRA etc etc for decades (successfully) without 'patriot acts', biometrics passports or other tools of use to future tyrants for decades. We don't need your 'help' or advice there either.

Your jingoistic pride in your colony and its military is touching."Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" well off you go and good luck with that 'war on terrorism' rubbish.

I have always found it amusing that the current US republican contempt for France in particular when the American republican party seems to copy the worst adventures of the French so carefully (indochina - vietnam, gulf - algeria).

SO as I said good luck with 'them thar arabs' but Europe does not want to come and play toy soldiers with you. We smashed them around the place a few times and occupied their countries - turned out to be a waste of time. If you would like to come and collect the staff you have in Europe I'm sure that local prostitutes may weep but no one else will care.

As for Islam in Europe. Personally I'm not threatened. Welcome one and all. After all there has to be some place for the refugees you are helping to create to flee to.

Robert you are wrong. Nazis suffered 70% of their casulties on the Eastern front. Every country likes to exaggerate its own good sides and minimizes the bad ones. For the obvious reasons. But we have to start reading things correctly as they are so that we can avoid unnecessary misunderstandings and conflict. To be honest with you I think the financial elites want the truth to be supressed for as long as possible so that they can manipulate nations against each other a bit longer. For their own interests.

Great Idea!
Europe funding and furnishing their own defense. This will be a boom for US companies because Europeans will buying military hardware from mostly US companies.
They may buy from other countries like other countries like China, Russia and few others too. It will be cheaper for them to buy elsewhere than their own research. They will also buy from few European companies too like Great Britain.

Great Idea!
Europe funding and furnishing their own defense. This will be a boom for US companies because Europeans will buying military hardware from mostly US companies.
They may buy from other countries like other countries like China, Russia and few others too. It will be cheaper for them to buy elsewhere than their own research. They will also buy from few European companies too like Great Britain.

For all of you who do not appreciate what United State don for Europe 63 year ago. If you still under Nazi regime you will be like the western Europeans who just got liberated from the soviet era control. I think you should look back and thank God that we still here and had been their for You!!. what make me angry about Europe now is the way you act like a spoiled kid that never grow up never listen to advice, never learned or want to defend himself and always get beaten up and run for help. Shut up and take responsibility of yourself and we be so glad to look from a fare to see you stumble and need help. Then we will help you again, but you have to learn to behave.

I currently have dual citizenship in both Spain and the United States and can tell you from both sides of the pond that I understand Arkin's position however I do disagree. The American ideal to constantly be something and somewhere to feel fulfilled is at times overwhelming. The European way of life is different which I don't see being taken into account. American patriarchies love to play sword fights and if Europe seems less than enthusiastic to shed blood, take into account America was founded on European bloodshed. It is possible that the people of Europe just don't want to fight anymore. There's enough for everyone if we'd start listening instead of trying to impose our will on everyone around us. It's nice to stop, take a breath and be thankful for what we do have instead of focusing on what we lack. The EU only agreed to go in on the war to save face I would imagine. We backed out years ago and things have only gotten worse there. Perhaps America should take a cue from the Union and know when enough is enough.

TACTICUS....seriously, very funny stuff. You actually brought up how experienced europeans are at losing so many men in numerous wars as a reason why you would kick U.S. butt in a conflict!!!

By my last history lesson, Europe has realistically only had 2 countries in the past 500 years that have ever really earned any military respect (Germany and England). Funnily enough, those are also the 2 countries that actually lose less men than the other european nations in armed conflicts!!

In addition, the true War Hawks on this planet are you people!! No ONE in any post I read here even suggested some kind of military solution to how we are vviewing each other over 'the pond' until your post!!! We do not want to fight wars!! Please understand that, sometimes we are to stupid for our own good and end up with military actions happening but we honestly do not want to fight! Now understand that and do not ever talk about or write anything about some kind of military action between europe and the U.S. If you do so, I will have to come over their with no weapons or anything and just take you out to a woodshed(not for racial cleansing or anything so european) but just to use a little good old fashioned American belt discipline that boys get when they do something stupid!

PS. I was born in England and Dad is British so technically I have both experiences within me and let me tell you the American side of me does seriousoly know how to get the job done militarily so now you know.

One More Thing; You have posted a number of times that I " make my skin utterly crawl, and make me fearful for my country--especially when such ignorance is in positions of power. " Well sorry but I do not believe my views are the only views such as this... What country are you from? Iraq?

Let me relate an story I read about a year and a half ago in the cnn news I believe...

( forgive me if I ad lid for I can't remember what state thing happen in..)

In grocery store waiting to check in a suburb in the USA the line was long, and it was a hot day. At the front of the line was a woman from Iraq that had located in the USA after the start of the war in 2003... The woman ranted and raved at the check out clerk over the price of our food and she was holding up the line of customer, they stood there quietly waiting... behind her was an elderly gentleman and behind him a young man in his service uniform. the woman looked back through the line, she spotted the young man in uniform. she turned her angry on him, degrading him for all that was happening in HER COUNTRY, calling him names ects: the elderly gentleman behind her could not stand to hear what she was saying anymore, so he Spoke up (and simplified for you one more thing )this is what he said.

He said" excuse me Mama; but I AM PROUD OF THIS YOUNG MAN AND MY OWN SON WHO ALSO WEARS THIS UNIFORM, BUT I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO COME HERE TO MY COUNTRY TO BE SAFE WHILE WE FIGHT FOR YOU, AND WE GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH SO YOU CAN DEGRADE US FOR FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOMS AND WE HAVE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN DYING FOR YOU IN YOUR COUNTRY. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE AMERICA OR AMERICANS THEN GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY...

THAT ELDERLY MAN WAS APLUDED by all that heard him, as well he should be...

Now One More Thing I may up set you with speaking the truth for myself and many other Americans but this is the facts of what has happened to us as Americans and some of our very brave men and women in uniform... I have family members in Iraq as we speak.. Many of their families worry each night while they are away , if they will come home safe or if they will be a number of the fallen for those who won't fight for themself...

One More Thing; You have posted a number of times that I " make my skin utterly crawl, and make me fearful for my country--especially when such ignorance is in positions of power. " Well sorry but I do not believe my views are the only views such as this... What country are you from? Iraq?

Let me relate an story I read about a year and a half ago in the cnn news I believe...

( forgive me if I ad lid for I can't remember what state thing happen in..)

In grocery store waiting to check in a suburb in the USA the line was long, and it was a hot day. At the front of the line was a woman from Iraq that had located in the USA after the start of the war in 2003... The woman ranted and raved at the check out clerk over the price of our food and she was holding up the line of customer, they stood there quietly waiting... behind her was an elderly gentleman and behind him a young man in his service uniform. the woman looked back through the line, she spotted the young man in uniform. she turned her angry on him, degrading him for all that was happening in HER COUNTRY, calling him names ects: the elderly gentleman behind her could not stand to hear what she was saying anymore, so he Spoke up (and simplified for you one more thing )this is what he said.

He said" excuse me Mama; but I AM PROUD OF THIS YOUNG MAN AND MY OWN SON WHO ALSO WEARS THIS UNIFORM, BUT I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO COME HERE TO MY COUNTRY TO BE SAFE WHILE WE FIGHT FOR YOU, AND WE GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH SO YOU CAN DEGRADE US FOR FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOMS AND WE HAVE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN DYING FOR YOU IN YOUR COUNTRY. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE AMERICA OR AMERICANS THEN GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY...

THAT ELDERLY MAN WAS APLUDED by all that heard him, as well he should be...

Now One More Thing I may up set you with speaking the truth for myself and many other Americans but this is the facts of what has happened to us as Americans and some of our very brave men and women in uniform... I have family members in Iraq as we speak.. Many of their families worry each night while they are away , if they will come home safe or if they will be a number of the fallen for those who won't fight for themself...

Hey CTurner....reading your comment about, "if europe would have come together under france & germany", made me shudder when I realized you were talking about 2003.....not 1943, but so very reminiscient those thoughts must be for you.

It appears you wish the others would have come together, but didn't you leave some things unstated? Never talked about is the actual percentage of europeans that willingly supported what the reich was... such a trivial cost to you of 10 or 20 MILLION men, women, and children of clearly lower class status.

How many europeans FOUGHT us and Great Britian? Are they what you respect and hold dear, rather than the G.I. blood that turned THE OCEAN RED exactly 63 years and 1 day ago..... 4,000 miles from THEIR homes so you could have the choices you have today?!? Your own personal allegiance is shown thru the vehenemence in which you hold Britian. holding back your heroes and icons from that time, a small island and yet your furher's wishes could not be delivered to him forces your anger to surface!!

Tony Blair understood and England deep down understands something, FRIENDSHIP & LOYALTY. When the time came (and comes again) to reciprocate unblinking absolute support you do not shirk or stutter doubts and fear. The stupidity in which we acted with Iraq is even a greater need for what was sacrificed previously to not be forgotten by those helped. Rarely do these moments of need occurr when intelligent action has predicated the moment(i.e. French defenses cemented pointing only east, even opening a 2nd front that could not be won requiring 50 years of our commitment to bring to halves back to a whole people). That is when your true friends are their. Holding a high head you ACT with your friend(any doubts and concerns you have of their actions come after your friend's security and well being are attended. The opportunity of such times to show the investment in what was forged is unquestioning and true from Mr. Blair and the peoples of G.B. The price payed in American Blood not forgotten.

Perhaps yourself and the rest of europe just do not understand. So quick to bow, so easily conquered, one's values so easily compromised. You must not have or feel the pride of liberty, self sacrifice, and freedom that courses thru British and American veins. For that. The price. WE are willing to pay. Hesitation to honor what was delivered, The Sacrifices made, upon such a moment....hesitation for one in this group is not even a whisper. Profoundly, those in the other group clamour loudly in protest and decry desperately our evil, feverishly hoping it will cover and hide their own indecent actions and selfishness. Sadly for you, someday we will leave you to your own devices......I just pray we will stay out of it the third and final time in just a century that the spark of racial cleansing rends Europe apart. This time with such evil and ferocity to yourselves that words like Drafur, Cambodia, Sudan, Angola, and what they represent will be located much much closer to the Alps. Ultimately you will be truly left to yourselves because no one will want to care for such as you are anymore.

_____
Sorry so long everyone but to have said what europeans, of all people, say about us is not acceptable to me anymore. I do not think a U.S. person is greater than any other, I know we can come across badly sometimes but so does everyone. Don't real friends that you have bled for at least respect you and accept you for who you are?? We have not earned the right to be so hated.

Something not noted about differences between Europe and the US. Minorities in Europe have to struggle and fight harder to get even some respect. Diversity in workforce in many European companies especially middle management and above is practically non-existant.

Where are the non-white CEO, Upper managements, etc in Europe, practically no existent. The only non-white upper management are the ones who recently acquire European companies like Mittal Steel or some Chinese or Japanese related. There no promotion of diversity through the ranks.

In the US, we have African American CEO, Latino, various Asian Groups, India, Middle Eastern, European CEO, Upper Management, middle management, board of directors and various upper goverment positions. Europeans seems to keep the minorities to certain level, Glass Ceiling. US may not be perfecd but we do give opportunies to our minorities.

"Many of these nations clamor for a seat at the adult's table but they can barely cobble together enough soldiers to pull their weight today in Afghanistan."

Mr Arkin,
We will not build the future we want on this planet with bombs and bullets. Au contraire. Enough of this macho-jingoism. You should be smarter than that.
SM/Dvmx.com

uscause, thanks for your long but thoughtful post.

Radical Islamists have been created by the USA's financial elites. They used them against Russia in Afganistan (Afgan Trap remember?) and then throughout the former Yugoslavia against Serbs and Soviet Union. There is so much evidence floating around the interent about this anyone can check it out. What we are being told and what's being done in the name of citizens are completely two different things. Propaganda and misinformation rules the day. That's why people get confused when something happens and they cannot connect the dots and see it for what it is. This is the information age. In full force. That's what they failed to foresee correctly. The game is over.

Judith, and people like her, make my skin utterly crawl, and make me fearful for my country--especially when such ignorance is in positions of power. BTW, I wish someone would explain why Darfur, a cause celebre, is any different than Saddam's Iraq. Isn't Kurdish blood as worthy of protection?

Posted by: One more thing | June 7, 2007 01:14 PM

Kurds live in northern Iraq, not Darfur, which is in Sudan. Kurds have been under US protection since the first Gulf War.

If someone makes your skin crawl due to ignorance, please consult a few maps prior to posting.

People shouldn't use the Darfur issue to wonder why people didn't support the invasion of Iraq.

Why should we send troops to Darfur? Why? All we will do is open up further criticism
from around the world. Sorry, but, we've had enough adventures. Europe will not lift
a finger, as per the norm.

Time to shut our doors and fix our domestic issues. Remove all troops from Europe, Africa and Asia. Japan is going to militarize anyways, let them deal with the Asian theater. Korea? Who cares, yet another country that hates us, after we've helped build their economy.

They hate us anyways, and our leaders only pretend the feeling isn't mutual.

People wonder out loud, why Ron Paul's message is actually resonating with the average citizen.

The problems faced by Europe today are internal and extraterritorial rather than nation-to-nation (i.e. the problems of cultural pluralism in culturally-homogeneous societies, terrorism, etc.). We stand on our moral hilltop and scoff when Europeans decide to go their own way when they do not support US foreign policy in Iraq, and then sit back and snipe at European governments when they suggest we take lessons from their experience, history, and perspective.

Frankly, both positions are so hypocritical and short-sighted considering US-European relations from World War I to the present and the current extent to which the United States has failed in missions abroad (in Iraq, Afghanistan, and at home). Europe and the European Union should be an ally, not because they would be Blair rubber-stamping American policy allies, but because they would rightly disagree with us and challenge the rationale behind American foreign policy decisions. Moreover, the need for alliances to strengthen US soft power cannot be understated and ignored.

In order to be able to effect change in countries like Iraq, where direct military intervention only engenders anti-American sentiments rather than leading to flowers being through into the streets of Baghdad on our "liberating" patrols, we need the moral high ground that we claim but never achieve in reality. And we can learn a lesson from European nations, who among other important accomplishments, created the modern foundations for the philosophies of humanism, liberalism, and the human rights regimes we scoff at and consider unimportant. Two World Wars awakened Europe to the reality that cooperation was a better alternative than mutually-assured destruction, and the EU was created, in part, to make this ideal a reality. Perhaps it would have been better to allow Stalin to take over all of Europe instead of stationing troops their to protect our defeated allies after World War II ended, and maybe then, we would have been better off allowing the Europeans to "find their own destiny" under continued totalitarianism. Perhaps NATO should never have been created, and maybe we should have simply left Europe to itself instead of intervening in "their" affairs in the first place. This isolationist viewpoint is one strain of American political thought, and it is the wrong one applied to the world today. Consider the threats of terrorism, extremism, and the destabilizing effects of both in important regions of the world. How will we solve these if we pretend the rest of the world does not exist and continue to presume America should police the world because it has the hard power to do so? Have not the examples of Vietnam and Iraq, ideologically-motivated wars of monumental catastrophe, thought American anything about the limitations of the military to effect socio-political change?

A political leadership with common sense and an absence of the war on terrorism fatalism of the current political climate would prove to be much more beneficial to the strength of American Empire and retaining our status as a superpower than pure application of hard power on one hand and belief in perverted isolationism on the other. If we truly invested in ourselves and at the same time, realized that we are unable to build democratic nation-states through force (examples include the Philippines, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq), not only would domestic issues be resolved through a true commitment to values we idealize, but also we would build the soft power necessary to assert liberal, democratic values upon other nations as well, influencing decision-making and world opinion without threats of military intervention. In short, our over-reliance on the strength of our military and under-reliance upon diplomacy and the application of soft power is the major reason we are failing in the war on terror and engendering terrorism abroad. And domestically, if we learned how to protect workers' rights, truly strengthen the middle class over the super-rich vested interests controlling the country today, and safeguarded the foundations of democracy through empowering the institutions, such as public education, that supports it, then we could set an example and secure the weight of moral argument through it.

Europe has already learned many of these lessons through their history. Maybe we must step back and learn something from European contributions and experience; we can only begin this process if their is a constructive dialog across the Atlantic. The strengthening of the alliance with Europe will only help our position abroad, the fight against religious extremism and anti-modernity, and finally, securing a future for generations to come safer than the one we currently occupy.

We will not always agree with the Europeans, and we do not have to. In fact, disagreement leads to compromise, and compromise, to a moderate course of action reflecting democratic principle. And simply using common sense, we can agree the United States and Europe are stronger together, working together for liberal values and democratic governments in many parts of the world in need of it, rather than going it alone and fighting modern incarnations of Vietnam in Iraq.

So England backed us in Iraq and let's be honest and say that France, Italy, Switerland etc. etc. were never much help to anybody even pre- WWII so are we talking about Germany ? After their continued "favorite villian" status since the Holocuast, they are certainly not going to start picking off Islamic radicals so I don't believe even the remotest expectation that Europe is gung ho on international security is practical. Europe is trying to limit their reliance on oil and therefore have been a lot more progressive environmentally. Why should they take up the cause of continuing the world's conspicous consumption of energy ? We all know that's the only reason America gives a crap about the Middle East or any other third world. If we ever start mixing it up in Africa, I will move to Europe !

Arkin:

Shame on you! Not for the views your express, but rather for consistently using your blog to incite rather than educate. I'm not sure if you do this intentionally, or are just wrapped up in some sort of perverted idea as to what a the role of a journalist should be. (Or perhaps I just give you too much credit for understanding the compexities of national security!)

Today's blog is a prime example as to how you continually fail to plumb the depths when writing of complex and multi-dimensioned issues. Your analysis and assertions are consistently so shallow that, by default,they elicit (with rare exception) like-minded shallow, uni-dimensional comments.

The bully pulpit of a WAPO blog offers you an opportunity to do your readers some real good by providing a catalyst for thoughtful, insightful discussion. I'm afraid you are squandering that opportunity, my friend. Perhaps you should consider fewer higher quality blog entries rather than low quality daily posts.

I often find that Europeans consider themselves more civilized than the people of the U.S., because they have banned guns and minimized their military. They say with disgust and indignation that the U.S. military budget is larger than several of their nations' military budgets combined, and they point to gun deaths in the U.S. as proof of the wisdom of their laws. But, when all agree to send soldiers into a Somalia or a Rwanda or a Serbia, the Europeans send a bus load or two, while the U.S. is left to bear the brunt of the force. What is more, the European forces often end up in scandals, such as standing idly while they watch the locals commit genocide in front of them. They have abandoned their responsibilities so they don't have to face ugly realities and the potential blame that comes from making a wrong or unsuccessful decision. Europeans have not progressed beyond war; they are too immature to make difficult decisions and take dangerous actions. Perhaps this is because they are too afraid of themselves.

Perhaps this state of affairs is just as well. There is a reason Europeans are afraid of themselves, and what their militaries can do. Europe has a long history of bitter warfare that did little except empower an elite. Maybe that would simply begin again if Europe were more confrontational?

Yes, Europe could have stopped the Iraq War. The wrong way to stop it would have been to have thwarted the U.S. The person who needed to changing was Saddam, not Bush. The protests against the Iraq War are just so much mis-directed, wasted effort that should have been directed against Saddam's Administration. If millions had protested Saddam's regime--if the Arab League or the European Union had stood up for decency when it counted--the Iraq War would not have been necessary. Instead of doing the decent thing, all those people chose to slump back in their seats and make cat-calls as the U.S. and her allies finally brought real force on Saddam. The usual word for this is cowardice.

As an American who has traveled and lived abroad a fair amount, I'm pretty disturbed by a lot of the isolationist chatter on here.

It's apparent that you guys and gals spouting those stock talking points have never gotten a nuanced modern history education. It's as though you're only able to fit ONE IDEA on any given topic in your head: IMMIGRATION=BAD! EUROPE=DECADENT SOCIALIST WHINERS! AMERICA=GO IT ALONE!

As someone else mentioned on here, Europeans are generally better educated than Americans about world affairs and history, and have a much better appreciation for the complexities of both. Spend time in both places and it will be obvious. I'm not saying Europe is perfect by any means (and I agree with some of Arkin's points), just that a lot of the posters on here don't really know what they're talking about.

American society is so damn polarized right now and there's a serious lack of objective reasoning - really bums me out.

agreed Europe needs to pull it's own weight. and once they have to actually build their own military (gasp !!) they will realize they actually have more incentive to co-operate with the US vs. trying to oppose our foreign policy at every turn on the face of it alone. in this respect, i am referring mainly to Germany and France, especially given their own growing Islamic populations AND their consistent opposition to US policy in the War on Terrror.

American people are great. There is a big difference however between people and the financial elites. The financial elites are acting extremly aggressively towards not just the outside world but Americans themselves. The plan to take over the world by all means necessary is leading the world to the brink of a nuclear war. This is becoming more and more obvious by the day. I would urge everyone to check the Doomsday clock at Wikipedia and see where we are now and why. See also who is behind the clock. The smartest people on this planet. The elites have lost the plot but they are still not accepting this reality. They are escalating things instead. They are out of control. As to the Europe yes Europe should find a way to invest in its own defence but not so much to be a new military power capable of projecting it outside of its borders. It should be strictly defensive in nature. No exceptions to this doctrine should ever be allowed. Because if there is some exception it will be used for something else sooner or later. And that would lead to big problems. NATO is a good example of this. They totally discredited themselves when they attacked a sovereign country totally unprovoked and in breach of their own and UN charters. This is unacceptable. There cannot be any justification for such actions. Because almost any smaller country could be set up to do something foolish towards its own citizens e.g. minorites or other religious groups are encouraged to rebel against the state by outside powers for whatever reason etc...and then the same outside power can use the military might to interevene using such foolish actions as excuses and pretex to occupy such a country and submit it to its own will. So yes I would like to see European own defence but DEFENCE only. No exceptions. Whatsover.

oNE mORE tHING.... sorry you fine my commits upsetting ... I'm an American that is tired of our young dying and our people paying the tad for other countries while our own citizens struggle to get by.. and why? because the other countries don't have enough BRASS to stand up and fight for what they want....

Perhaps we (US of America) should stop being the world's policeman. What would happen then?
The planet is not the large place it was when our Founding Fathers began this country. In this day of virtually instant communications and travel, it is way to easy for a "criminal" in Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania or South America to grow up from being the local bully to being the architect of "Mass Destruction". Who would be the policeman to stop the "criminal" from becoming a crime lord.
Maybe the answer would be to kill all the humans and let the mice and elephants Rule The World.

Judith has hit that nail on the head with every one of her points.

We should have learned in Viet Nam that it is pointless to try and defend a people who will not fight for themselves. It is even worse that the Iraq people do nothing to stop those that are trying do harm to the U.S. troops who are trying to protect them.

To those who say that we are not in Iraq for the Iraq people but for our own security I say this: "You don't fight a war acting as policemen, you fight a war with a military that seeks to destroy the enemy". We are not fighting a war in any sense of the word. We are patrolling some parts of Iraq while our troops are being attacked at the time and place chosen by our enemies. How stupid can we be?

We must have more focus at home here in the U.S. As Judity says, we must stop illegal immigration. We must find ways to provide health care to all of the people. We must find ways to employ all of our people. Employment for all will go a long way towards solving our gang and crime problems.

We have very few friends in the world. The Japanese, British and Canadians are the only ones that come to my mind. We should nuture those relationships. With the rest of the world we should strive to be friends but not expect a whole lot, especially with Europe.

As a European, I'm all for the US pulling out of Europe. We have become too dependent on the US presence and the US has become too dependent on our acquiescence.

Many Americans believe the world is black and white, good and evil. Such simplistic view by itself is not dangerous, but believing that we always represent the good side, and those against us are bad, is not only dangerous, it is darn right evil.

We insist America stands for Freedom, Peace and Democracy, and frustrated when the world points to our deeds instead of believing our words. As the world greatest marketing and sales genius, we prefer to sell words than actions.

But a nation of peace does not topple its neighbor by force (Panama), or unilaterally attack another nation and resulted in so many deaths. True, leaders of Panama and Iraq were thugs, but US has befriend with many thugs. Our unwavering support to Samosa, butcher of Nicaragua (remember Iran Contra), Marcos of Philippines, Shah of Iran, and yes, even Saddam Hussein during the 80s when he was at war with Iran, were examples of how much we value our words. None of these faithful allies stood for freedom or democracy, and certainly Saddam was not holier during the 80s than 90s.

I am not worried about this President keeps making a fool of himself in front of the world. I am worried that while we find no buyer of our words oversea, we have large domestic market at home.

I welcome the idea of weaker relationship with Europe. Most of Europe countries and it citizens are converting to Islam including recent immigrants. More Islam immigrant are flowing into Europe beside Europeans converting to Islam. It matter of time for most European countries to be predominatly Islamic European countries.

Defense of Europe will become defense of one version of Islam versus another another version of Islam. Also, the worst thing is the Islamic belivers are not as tolerant of non-Islam citizens and non-Islam believers in Europe.

I AGREE WITH THE WRITER HERE....The United States is not a world police force... we need to bring our troops home to rebuild America and protect our boarders...

America has needs for it's people which have not been met and are sorely lacking... Case in point... over 12 million illegals in our country... Jobs sent over seas, and taken by illegal workers...

You know, " You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". We lead Iraq to freedom of a dictator, but they refuse to make a workable government to lead their own people... Iraq is the horse lead to water, and they are not drinking....

You can "teach a child to stand and walk " but there comes a time you must let the child learn on it's own... We have given Iraqis free election, they elected the people of their choice, it is those people who refuse to work together to make a government for their people and by their people...

We as Americans have a country which has gone down in many ways trying to help
Iraq and other countries in the middle East, now it is time for them to fight their own freedom fight,as we once did...

Bush always ask " ARE YOU SAFER TODAY THEN BEFORE 9/11" The answer is no...case in point, 12 million illegals in our country, many of which the government has no idea who or where they are, or what they have done in there own countries...

In the name of free trade, we Americans have watch our jobs sent over seas, our lively hoods being taken from the very heart of Americans, the working class of our country, the back bone of our nation... In the name of freedom for another land, we have watched our country pay the highest of prices, the lives of our young... One has to but read some statements of our ground forces that are made to live and patrol with the people Bush has freed in Iraq... Men and women that must live with these fighting forces to help them free their land of those who mean them harm, to hear that some of these same forces work to blow up our young men and women who are there to help them...

It is time for Americans to come home and help protect our lands our jobs, our lively hoods, not be the fighters and police of the world...

with the money Bush and Chaney have put into this oil war, we Americans could have nation wide health care for all our people, top education for all our childern, a strong job market, and yes maybe even cheaper fule cost... Instead they chose war in Iraq, to enrich THEIR FAMILIES and those of their friends... Corruption has been around sense the begining of time and will not go away, it is the same in most governments... We americans has put billions of dollars into Iraq and have LOST BILLIONS with the cost of this war and CORRUPTION ....

We can not tell other countries how to govern their countries, nor how to live... We were all made different for a reason, and each country has it's own culture...

The USA has many problems here in our country that warrant the attention of our Government... Instead we cut programs to our most needy of people to fight for a country that would rather kill us then really be free...

We give jobs away over seas, rather than employ our own, or we let illegals work what jobs we have to make it cheaper on business'...We open our boarders for trade, only to recieve poision foods and products for other countries...

WHEN DOES THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA REMEMBER THAT WE HAVE OUR OWN PART OF THIS EARTH TO WORRY ABOUT, OUR OWN PEOPLE TO PROTECT AND CARE FOR... WE ARE NOT THE POLICE OF THE WORLD...LET THE OTHER COUNTRIES STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THEMSELF JUST TO BE DIFFERENT AND LETS BUILD AMERICA BACK TO THE COUNTRY IT USE TO BE...

MOST OUR OUR PROBLEMS TODAY IS CORRUPTION IN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, THOSE TELLING US WHAT WE CAN AND CAN NOT DO, WHO ONLY WORK TO ENRICH THEIR POCKETS AT THE COST OF AMERICA AND IT'S PEOPLE.... IT IS MORE THAN A TIME FOR CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY, WE NEED LEADERS WHO ARE IN OFFICE FOR ALL OF AMERICAN, TO PROTECT OUR BOARDERS AND JOBS AND LIVELYHOODS... AMERICA NEEDS TO POLICE ITSELF AND OUR LEADERS.... HERE'S A THOUGHT, LETS HAVE CONGRESS AND SENATE PASS A NEW LAWS MAKING ALL RESPONSSIBLE FOR THIS WAR ,TO PAY BACK THE MONEY SPENT AND LOST TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AS WELL AS CARE FOR THE MANY FAMILIES THEY HAVE DISTROYED IN THEIR GREED FOR OIL... JUST A THOUGHT... MAYBE IT WOULD DO GOOD FOR SOME OF THE TO HAVE TO DEPEND ON PROGRAMS THEY HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE NEEDY HERE IN THE usa...

The current combined EU countries are moving to the position where they dominate the USA demographically and economically. Dispite its recent introduction the Euro is fast replacing the dollar as a safe currency.History makes clear that should Europe revert to a militarist mindset (German armour anyone?) given the national mythologies and acceptance of blood loss on a huge scale as an integral part of warfare (whinge vietnam, whinge irag Vs verdun, Somme, Ireland, Berlin, E. Front, Napoleon, Winter war, Spanish civil war, balkan wars, wars of national independance etc etc) that Europe would quickly beome the worlds greatest military power. Then perhaps instead of nodding and smiling at crass and ignorant American right wing opinion - we could have a huge war that would destroy North America and half of Europe. You would loose. We acroos the pond are getting a bit tired of your infantile militarist logic. It's like an immature spotty teenager screaming at a 30 year old man for a fight. You are a young nation and currently being stupid - hopefully you will grow out of it. Feel free to pack up your European bases and leave - they serve US strategic interests not European ones.

Hollywood might have you believing your a militarily bad ass nation but history says you are spotty adolescent who faints at the sight of blood.

Good luck with the arab thing. We've ben there and bough the t-shirt - Europe.

After the U.S. was brought into WWII, the European theater received more military support than the Pacific theater. There has always been a preference toward Europe in American foreign policy. We should be interested in Europe, but, Europe, or rather Great Britain and France, have quite a bit of baggage as colonial powers, that is not helpful in dealing with the Global South or third world in you prefer. I would prefer having NATO equivalents in these various regions to deal with regional problems.
Further, Europe is not used to dealing with minorities within their own countries, and tries to micromanage change in the behavior of their new Citizens. The separation of Church and State has been helpful for us in dealing with religious questions,as no religion can use the state to dominate other religions. Once we get rid of Bush, we can do a better job of getting along with Non-European people.
If we had enough troops, I would prefer dealing with al-Qaida by ourselves in Afghanistan. We have to work with, and listen to local people in order to be successful in these various regions. Europeans should stay in Europe.

Americans seem to be obsessed with power and military might and many post here refer to it. But what good is all that military might, of which you are all so proud, when you can't even hold your own in a small country like Iraq? You would be better off to stay at home and to spend the money on your social security and making sure that your own people in future will not be treated so disgracefully as all those unfortunates in New Orleans. Believe me the rest of the world will also be grateful.

Isolationist blather. Russia and Iran should go their own way too. And Cuba. And Canada. And Mexico. Just the good old USofA and no one else. And the debt laden income stagnant red states. Can we let them go too?

You are so wrong. History tells us that if we leave Europe to themselves, there will be another war. I lived in Europe for twelve years. They may seem to have a peaceful society. But it is very socialistic and very controlled by the government. The American democracy model is so much better than the so-called parliamentary democracy model in Europe. Europe was a nice place to live and work - for a while. Give me Americal anytime

I think smaller governments and smaller groups of governments are always more effective and efficient than big governments and big groups of governments. Heck, I don't even like trying to do something socially if there are more than a handful of people. Too many opinions & nothing happens.

Isolationism is not the answer as REV and Mik would have it. Look at what happened just prior to WWI/II. This is a world war and if we don't present a strong united front, our opposition will overwhelm us. Those who chose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it...

If there were no American bases in Europe, we couldn't even think about doing things like the current police action in Iraq. The logistics would be too overwhelming. In this case, it would be a good thing; but Europeans would face much tougher choices than just defending themselves if America withdrew from Europe. As a liberal opponent of this President and his stupid Iraq adventure (it's not a "war" any more; that part is long over), and as one who understands that the reviled French and Germans were right about Iraq all along, I'm still not ready to trust the Europeans to do things like knock out al Qaeda's support in Afghanistan.

As someone who has lived in Europe and America I have a pretty good understanding of how both are structured. Most europeans are more peaceful than americans and know more about world affairs. Sorry but they just are. Try watching a mainstream British news program as opposed to an American one and you will see why.

As for radical islam - until we (the Americans) gave them something to focus on and to use to recruit impressionable young men, they were too busy killing each other to come after anyone else. For example Sadaam Hussein hated the Taliban and Al Quaida - they were a threat to his secular regime. They hated him. He crushed any insurgent group he encountered ruthlessly. It should be easy therefore to understand how we got in this mess in the first place. I saw it coming in 2001 as did most europeans, others who had read the wolfowitz doctrine knew something like this was in the pipeline well before then.

Europe has not always been as peaceful as it is now; they had their time as world dominating colonial powers and moved beyond that stage. With luck America will manage the same without dissolving into anarchy first. I draw some parallels with the end of the British empire - belief in our infallibility, military over-extension, outsourcing, sacrificing long term health and prosperity for short term gain etc etc etc.....

Judith, and people like her, make my skin utterly crawl, and make me fearful for my country--especially when such ignorance is in positions of power. BTW, I wish someone would explain why Darfur, a cause celebre, is any different than Saddam's Iraq. Isn't Kurdish blood as worthy of protection?

Bravo! Refreshing, candid and a pleasure to read. Thank you for writing this.

I like it REV!!! You are correct, there really has been no counterweight to U.S. actions/influence since the fall of the Soviet Union. I am an American by birthright AND by choice due to dual-citizenship. I love what we stand for and believe in and no matter how good we truly mean to be we know Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely. A strong independent Europe with the serious weight of China(perhaps with more openness and comunication so nothing dumb happens!) mixing in the Industriousness of the India factor followed by Brazil a decade or so behind would make for a very nice balance in the world. 3 to 5 equally capable nations/unions would bring out our best and would help us realize what we truly wish ourselves to be.

Excellent View and Take on this subject.

Historically, The french hates the british and vice versa.
Historically, the french and the british considers the spanish as second class of Europe.
Historically, the French and the British envy the Germans.
Wars between these europeans can be triggered at any time.
Historically the french make fun of Belgium and of French-Canada.

The European Union should go beyond the creation of the Euro, they need to form a military, one large enough and strong enough to counter the mischievious forays of the U.S.A. into other countries -- soon we will be invading France or some other once friendly and allied nation.

Is it treason to say such a thing? It is the U.S.A. that is the problem, not the Europeans in my view.

By the way, did we forget about all of the European nations that helped the colonists to garner its freedom from England, especially the French? The Russians even supported America - come on folks, don't buy the hype!

I've heard some replies to this article that I like and others I don't like. Overall Europeans seem to take offense and resentment to this article. This goes to show Americans have a long way to appropriately demonstrate our intent. I do not believe that the hurling of negative rhetoric near the end of the forum by both sides in conducive to a good understanding.

What I do believe Arkin means is that America must let Europe be Europe. Too long we have been meddling and being over-protective of European countries as if we have the right to be, and as if they couldn't take care of themselves. In fact, it is quite the opposite.
They don't need all of our bases scattered around their countries, if fact, it almost gives the impression that we are an occupying force. And as to the argument that European nations rely on our support, it may be true to an extent, but that's only because we are there already. In fact, the very reason for the U.S. being in debt to NATO is because we borrow the money, and use much of it to fund our overseas policing action, which makes the U.S. military a sort of credit system, that Americans pay into.

Bottom line: Europeans don't want us there. Who could blame them. Do I want a French, or German base set up in, say, Massachusetts? NO. It's not needed. At the same time, we should offer help in time of need. We just need to get off their soil and view them as they are: equal nations. We can't keep thinking of ourselves and better and more powerful when we clearly are not, when we keep borrowing from other nations. This is the clear solution to Americans getting a better view and not being recognized as arrogant and controlling, who knows, perhaps we are, and if that's true, then we need to change that.

Speaking of which, a Presidential candidate that can do that is Dem. MIKE GRAVEL. I endorse him thoroughly. Any Europeans who want an America that doesn't throw it's weight around, and takes it's bases out of your countries, show spread his name as well.

Your vision on Europe seems from here to be very partial and ethnocentric. First, you based your article on Gates's speech for his visit in France which is probably a meaningless diplomatic sentences.But also seem to attribute everything that's happening in europe to american causes. Difficulties that has Europe to take strong decisions are nothing but an internal european problem. EU's institutions are not functional because of the unanimity rules and the consitution made to reform that has been rejected by French people. States personal interest always prevail on european one. Europe doesn't speak in once voice which is the reason it is weak.

Another funny stuff is that you seem to think that Europe is being invaded by immigrant muslim integrist which are about to take over Europe and impose the Charia as law. This is a pure american fancy. Most of european muslims are purely lay and integrated.

I can imagine that making the EU nations take on more responsibility for their individual or collective security might induce them to be just that: a little more responsible.

Consider the experience in Northeast Asia. With North Korea making obnoxious noises, some Japanese find that being anti-American for the sake of being anti-American is not as attractive. Consider also the experience in South Korea. As the US reduces its presence along the DMZ -- that is, as the US reduce makes moves to remove the "trip-wire" -- then cheap anti-American sentiment begins to appear a little too expensive ...

Hmm ...

Admin: Please limit the comments length to maximum 500 charaters which is about 10 lines max paragraph. I am disgusted at the misuse of this comments space by totally ir-iresponsible users.

I agree with Mark's Post earlier. Europe is the Paris Hilton of the world! Except that Europe is an Aging Old Hag. Not as pretty to look at. LOL

I completely agree with the author: I`m european and I don`t undertand why the european leaders like to avoid hard time discussions and stay grabbing the panths of USA when something bad knocks the door. Maybe its because GB is always on the side of the US making an automatically specie of division among european leaders.
But there is another factor ...many people in europe is afraid that a strong militar europe may be like a recovering alcoholic to whom was given a cage of old Jack Daniels ...
You know ....if the right in europe puts their hands onto BIG military ...worst things than Iraque can occur.

I really wish our American Friends would remember history correctly.

The US did not join WWII to save Europe, war was declared on it by Japan and it's axis partner Germany (Remember Pearl Harbor).

Prior to joining WWII Europe (England) paid for all aid in GOLD and loans.

Once America joined WWII it obviously tipped the scales and we all should be glad we were on the same side at the same time.

As for a strong Europe. I think America needs a strong partner in Europe, but a partnership goes both ways and the US seems to do very little listening.

Its' time to STOP the escalation of murderous nuclear proliferation and apocalyptic scenarios of same old bullies our history has been victimized by.
Imagination at work means more than following the lethal ping pong between androcentric fools we should not applaud. North Korea Iran Israel and now France: same thing at the end of the day. litlle or big boys playing war.
They don't die: we do. Time to stop taking them so seriously and define them by what they really are: bullies
with lust to kill'others' Those others are all of US

Arkin,
Let me see if I get this straight. Since the early days of the runup to the War in Iraq, the biggest knock against the Bush adminstration (other than the intel) is that they were not willing or able to work with their "allies". They could not find common ground on the approach to deal with world problems, specifically Iraq. They got dinged over and over ad nauseum about not working with the community of nations or forging stronger alliances, especially with the rest of the West. They didn't play nice at the UN. They were diplomatically challenged. They needed to work more with the "world community". They just did things their own way. Those arguments have persisted from the summer of 2002 until, aparently, now. Now the proper course is to let Europe and the US go their own way and don't worry about improving the alliance between the two. Doctor I have whiplash!

Should the Europeans do more for their own protection? You bet. But this assinine argument is designed to isolate the Bush adminstration and the positions they hold on the war against radical Islam/terror. Now you may not agree with those positions, but to attempt to drive a wedge between countries that have a heck of lot more in common than not and who both are having to deal with "creeping Islam" because you disagree with the way your country is approaching things, is irresponsible at best. You have said previously that you don't buy into the War on Terror or that the US should be at "war" with radical Islam. Well argue that straight up and stop being a weasel.

Sorry that last post by me was in response to SCUBAGEAR not steiger

mr. redHead wrote: "Trust me, we'd like to be out of your land as well. And you can take the U.N. with you and put it somewhere else. We're tired of having to take responsibility for the protection of everyone else."

This is patently untrue. How do we know? Because we here in the U.S. persist in world-policing, and have escalated lately to include full-on wars and various "incursions" here and there; and the U.S. is not run entirely by imbeciles--although it seems that way sometimes--but by people who've made reasoned judgments about the protection of our interests. We police, meddle, tolerate Old Europe, and make war because it's in our interests to do so.

The whiners about NATO, the U.N., and whiny Europeans conveniently neglect to mention that we owe our preeminence to all three. We like our preeminence. If the cost of its maintenance is the occasional flap with a foreign minister or the security council we marvel at the bargain.

And the U.S. has rarely, if ever, given aid to anyone--European, Asian, or African--without stipulating that a significant percentage of our aid money comes back to our shores in the form of corporate welfare. we make out fantastically well in the bargain.

It is, in fact, the people clamoring most for American hegemony who are undermining it most dangerously: we're big, but we're not so big that we can go it alone, and without the complicity of our allies and our enemies. Time to wake up, children.

Why on earth does this fool, William M. Arkin still have a job after saying our soldiers should be happy they are not being spat on at airports?

Europe HAS gone it's own way before... It lead to us being dragged into WW1 and WW2.

Good grief, this man is the village idiot.

Steiger..you are hilarious. Israel does stand on its own and does what it wants (except on some very rare situations, no retaliation for scuds in '91 gulf war for example) in which the U.S. absolutely wants something else and even then it takes every bit of influence U.S. politicians have to deter them from their chosen course of action.

The USA plays world policeman and dictator of what they cosider best for everyone in the world. It is complete American arrogance to think they have all the answers. It is quite obvious to any thinking person that the USA leadership in its socalled "war on terror" that has made the western world a more insecure place. The Bush and Co type of leadership is something Europe as a whole does not need and should turn its back on. Until the american govt gets off its "holier than thou" and "better than all the others" ranting, it will continue to lose friends and support.

US is no longer a super power, we cant even win in Iraq, a country we have been bombing since 1990 or Afghanistan which was already totaly destryed by Russia!!! We cant even save our own citizens (New Orleans) after a natural disaster which we knew was coming. How the hell can we claim to be "Super" with our "decider" and "big Dick" in the white house ?

What a waste of an article.

We need more articles like this one. Most of the people I know, are thinking along the same lines anyways.

Hopefully, more people will speak up. We don't need to protect a people that hate us.

Let them continue their historical and cultural standard of inaction.

Europeans, well the traditional people, are
on the way out anyways. I guess they're going to learn the rules about what types of cartoons they can draw.

I agree that Europe will have to find its own way, but I take exception to the Rumsfeld characterization based on the context of his opinions. He said that because "Old Europe" wouldn't support the attack on Iraq as a response to 9/11. In that context, they were right.

Typically, most of the American commentators on this ill-informed piece mistake European liberal values, patience, and thoughtfulness with cowardice. Rather, as an American whose lived in Europe, that it is the Americans who are cowards -- to afraid to face facts, tackle the hard job of diplomacy, or think beyond themselves to what creates civilized society. I think America is a great nation - but we're not leading towards humanities future by withdrawing further into a self-serving, isolationist policy. The problem is that America THINKS it knows whats best for the rest of the world, but only as this serves its own interests. That kind of small mindedness has created this "generations biggest conflict".

Europe doesn't know how to defend themselves. We should pull all our troops and equipment out of Europe. When they ask for our help again, charge them. We pay more in dues to the UN then any other country. We should kick the UN out of the good old USA.

Neither U.S. or European interests would be served by the naive "go-it-alone" approach espoused by Mr. Arkin. Recent neoconservative unilateralism notwithstanding, the U.S.-Europe relationship has been invaluable in helping promote security, stability, and economic prosperity. More cooperation, not less, with respect to common interests can help both the United States and European Union overcome the major challenges confronting them and realize the fruits of the great opportunities that still lie ahead.

At its best, the trans-Atlantic alliance has truly been a relationship where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. Cooperation among sovereign European states and the United States can ensure that such value can continue to be realized.

Europe doesn't know how to defend themselves. We should pull all our troops and equipment out of Europe. When they ask for our help again, charge them. We pay more in dues to the UN then any other country. We should kick the UN out of the good old USA.

I respectfully disagree.I think that if we had a President in Washington who was mature & had good c'ritical thinking skills and a team of advisers plus a VP who wasnt full of himself that person could forge a new Atlantic Alliance for the 21 century.If the European community has been a weak partner it is due to the fact that we have a president who has thrown away a framework of international relationships that has exsisted since the end of WW 2 and help to prevent another world war.
Today radicalization of the Islamic faith does threaten Europe.It threatens to erase the cultural legacy of Europe and the foundations of Western civilization.The radical Imans stand on the street corners and tell their followers to burn everything to the ground.I read that the main problem is this: very relifgious Jews & Christians practice their faith within a broader secular society.The Islamic radicals do want to live like this-they want a strict interpretation of Islamic law as the WAY that people should conduct their lives and to death with anyone that disagrees with them including their fellow Muslims. I think that multi-culturalism is good but some countries such as the Netherlands has gone to far.Look at the murder of the Dutch flim maker Van Gogh.What happened to him is a foreshadowing of could be coming
If one thinks that this could not happen here you are wrong.There is a growing radical Islamic movement within our prisons.This is one example of how radicall Islam could take hold in America. As I wrote yesterday Islam is caught between the rock and the hard place.Do Muslims accept Bin Ladin's way or what took centuries to accomplish-different religious groups co-exsisting without ripping out each others throats?
Now is the time for leadership that understands history and reaches out to those who feel that they have no place in society.Now is the time for common sense to preserve our common heritage before it is too late.Now is the time to start thinking instead of waiting for the last minute when some awful decisions could be made.Unfortunately Europe is once again at the epicenter of a potential conflict .The sirens have sounded.There is still time to bring the European community together to fight a radical strict interpretation of Islam. Unfortunately Bush doesnt have this type of leadership.This also means dealing with Russia in away that checks their imperial ambitions while having them become part of the solution.I know what President Putin is doing and it is no different than a czar or what a communist would do.Russia has always had strong authorties in control.Instead of having a US president that in public scolds Russian leadership we need someone who will help the Russians help themselves to walk on a 'democratic' path.Russia's historical amibitions and its overall sense of how the world should be & how they fit in to all of this will always be a challenge.To combat radical Islam threating Europe Russia has to be involved .This will be difficult and why we need to stop electing presidents on the basis of looks or whether we want to go to Moe's Tavern in Springfield and have a beer with them.The Atlantic alliance has not been this important in nearly 20 yeras.Yes we should include Canada and Australlia/New Zealand even they are geographically seperate they share the same cultural heritage.

One more point:I think that Europe is still haunted by the ghosts of two world wars.Todays European community still remembers the terrible stupid men who lead a generation to their death and then A Hitler and that struggle. Perhaps the problem with Europe is that in trying to deal with radical islam and have those wish to be part of the larger community European leadership is caught between historical fact and present day reality.It is very difficult to deal with this and try and stop the radicals without having having the sound of black boots stomping down the streets of major cities.

Please stop asserting that WW I and WW II weren't "our wars" and implying they were europes. The world is global, we cannot ignore what happens in Europe or any other country for that matter and simply focus on the US if we hope to maintain an INTERNATIONAL economy. And if we had ignored Germany in WWII and let them fully defeat our allies in Europe, who do you think would have been next? Before we ever entered the war Germany had already attempted to enlist Mexico against us.

And if you think we're in all the countries we are just to "protect someone else" then you're just naive. We're there because we feel it's in our self interest to be there.

The United States was NEVER meant to be the POLICE FORCE OF THE WAR... Gates Bush and Chaney as well as Rove and Rumfield have opened us up for just this role in life, sending many of our troops around the world to police each countries welfare...

We can NOT AND SHOULD NOT be forcing our believes on our countries and cultures... We are all made different for a resons which is why we do not look, act, or believe the same...

I agree with this actical it is time for Eourpe to stand up for it self, and time for us as Americans to rebuild our country...

We must bring back the American jobs, look to fixing our welfare systems, protect our boarders, and give our citizens the health care they so badly need... We spend so much more than other nations protect their rights and in doing so we take so much from our own citizens....

It would be glorious if all nations could live in peace, unfortunaly as long is their is man, there will be conflict... As long as one country has what another wants, there will be conflict...

The United Nations was made up to handle these conflicts but has failed unbelievibily, for their too is corruption we some officals think more of lining their pockets than doing what they should for the nations of the world...

As we have all wittiness over the many years of governments corruption is like evil their is only ways a political party with members prepaired to line their pocket at the cost of the people... These are things that have been going on sense the beging of time, and they will not stop because Americans are there in other countries as well as at home...

The people have but to read the reports from Iraq to see American forces have become the main target of the very people that were to open their arms to America for there help... The very people our troops must live with and work with, help those we are tring to rid them of, to kill our own men...

There is a saying " YOU CAN'T HELP ANYONE WHO DOES NOT HELP THEMSELF "

IT IS TIME AMERICANS REMEMBER WHERE OUR HOME LAND IS AND COME BACK TO IT TO PROTECT AND BUILD STORNGER AND BETTER... IT IS TIME FOR THE EORUPIAN NATIONS TO LEARN HOW TO FIGHT FOR THEM SELF AND THOSE THEY LOVE... WE ARE NOT THE POLICE NOR RULERS OF THE EARTH...

INSTEAD OF LETTING 12 MILLION ILLEGALS ENTER AND STAY IN OUR COUNTRY WE MUST SEND THEM BACK TO THEIR COUNTRIES AND LET THEM APPLY TO COME HERE THE RIGHT WAY... THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN PROTECTING OUR HOME LAND, BY KNOWING WHO IS HERE AND IF THEY ARE LEGAL OR ILLEGAL... OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS OUR COUNTRY HAS NOT BEEN SAFER FROM TERROR ACTS IF THIS WERE TRUE WE WOULD NEVER HAVE 12 MILLION ILLEGALS HERE...

WE NEED TO BRING OUR MEN AND WOMEN HOME AND RESCURE OUR OWN LAND.. WE NEED TO BRING OUR JOBS BACK HOME SO PEOPLE OF THIS NATION CAN EARN THEIR LIVING AGAIN...WE NEED TO STOP THE POISION FOODS AND PRODUCTS FROM CHINA... AND WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OLD AND ELDERLY, DISABLE AND OUR POOR.... IT IS MORE THAN TIME FOR A CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY.... WITH THE MONEY SPENT IN THE LAST SIX YEARS IN THESE WARS WE COULD HAVE DONE ALL OF THE ABOVE, INSTEAD OUR COUNTRY IS THE LOSER IN THE GAME OF POWER INVISIONED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION AND IT'S FOLLOWERS... " YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM DRINK". WE HAVE LEAD IRAQ FOR SIX YEARS, BUT THEY REFUSE TO MAKE A GOVERNMENT THAT IS WORKABLE, ALL IN THE GAME OF POWER... WE CAN NOT HOLD THEIR HANDS FOREVER, LIKE THE CHILD LEARNING TO WALK, THERE COMES A DAY YOU MUST LET THEM DO THIS ON THEIR OWN...

The best comment in this misguided screed:

"An independent Europe might have actually had enough power to stop the foolish 2003 Iraq war."

Translation: If Europe had come together behind Germany and France perhaps she could have convinced Bush & Co. not to pursue their insane war." Maybe, but probably not. The neo-cons whom Bush appointed as his advisors had been planning war in the Middle East before Bush came to office. They even published a white paper with their justification for war:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

Europe has and continues to go its own way with respect to its security (with the disgraceful exception of Tony Blair's UK). Blindly following the US administration's plans for war is not in its interest.

America liberated Europe from Nazi Germany so that they can go live in some decadent politically correct socialist appeasement utopia and stab us in the back later. Socialism isn't for the poor, its so that Europe can keep its class system in tact. France has 8.5% unemployment right now for heaven's sake. Now they are trying to export their delusional mindset here. Sorry, we won't have any of it. Hillary and Obama can go live in Europe, where they belong.

Bill Swoffer says "...Get your bases out of our land, pay your way-past due bills to Nato and the UN, butt out of our internal affairs and quit whining..."

Trust me, we'd like to be out of your land as well. And you can take the U.N. with you and put it somewhere else. We're tired of having to take responsibility for the protection of everyone else.

WWI, WWII in Europe -- these weren't our wars, but Americans sacrificed millions of lives to "help" our European friends, and so they became our wars, too.

Perhaps it would have been better if we'd stayed home, and only dealt with the Pacific threat of WWII, and left Europe to its own devices. England and France were doing so well on their own, don't you think?

No, our government certainly isn't perfect and most of us know it, and America as a whole isn't perfect. But if it's so darn bad, why are there millions of people trying to immigrate here every year? What is it about us that makes us so attractive to so many from all over the globe?

I'd just as soon close our borders to all immigration, and put high tariffs on all imported goods to the point of making them too expensive for most people to buy. After all, that's what many other countries do with American products.

American needs to let everyone go there own way. First we need to stop giving food aid to third world african nations that wont stop killing each other long enough to have sustained growth and harmony. Second lets recall all of our foriegn debt that is owed - no payment plans, no free lunch anymore: Pay up or we stop helping. You dont want our bases in your country - kick us out - then dont complain when you want us to help. Do it alone or shut up.

Kudos, Mr. Arkin. President Washington warned us against "entangling alliances" and it's time again to heed his warning.

As to the delusional, anti-American Bill Swofford's comments:

"Get your bases out of our land," (most Americans want nothing more than to pull our bases out of Europe. Everytime we contemplate doing such a thing, European governments start squawking and begging us to stay!) "pay your way-past due bills to Nato and the UN," (Huh? We foot most of the bill for both of those institutions, and provide most of the muscle to NATO!) "butt out of our internal affairs and quit whining." (That's rich coming from a European. The European press is full of judgment-making on American internal affairs!) "There's a reason you are hated worldwide, but it isn't because of how 'great' you seem to think you are." (We're hated worldwide precisely because we're so great! Leftists like you, Mr. Swofford, have always hated America because we stood firm against brutal leftist regimes and won the Cold War. Conservatives hate us for their own reasons, having to do with the perceived licentiousness of American society. And most of the others hate us just because the Big Dog is always resented.) "You'll never understand that, though, as your limited understanding of the world prevents you from seeing anything inbetween black and white." (Yes, you're right, you Europeans are all-knowing. I'm sorry, you'll have to forgive us Americans for being skeptical about European prescriptions about anything having to do with war & peace.)

Europe has already made its choice and that is to spend its tax revenue on social welfare programs instead of on national defense. Most major European countries spend approximately 1.5% of GDP on defense compared with twice that for the USA. Without any real military threat, it is doubtful that Europe will change that anytime soon. Russia is not a conventional military threat (its weapons are oil and nuclear bombs) and terrorism is viewed as a policing and counterintelligence issue. It is difficult to foresee any circumstance in which Europe will develop the ability to project military power beyond its borders regardless of the state of the Atlantic Alliance. Expecting a more "independent" Europe to stop complaining about Americans is a bit absurd...so long as anti-Americanism wins votes, European politicians will support it.

Apparently the author would prefer that we have no close allies at all to help us in our current struggle in the "war" on terrorism. Just because some Europeans disagreed with members of this administration after 9-11 does not make them "whiny friends." Mistakes have been made by both sides, including the largest ones by the US.

Let us not forget this administration's cowboy foreign policy and their attempt at building a coalition (either you're with us or against us or we don't mind having you along but we can and will do it without you). Not exactly the way to go about winning people over to your side.

And as much as we would like to compare the US to Europe, it really doesn't hold. This is perhaps the biggest fallacy in the author's piece. Although through the EU the nations of Europe are moving slightly toward a unified representation of the continent, they are not yet at the point that would allow a comparison between "Europe" and the US as if the two were each their own country. Europe is still made up of many sovereign nations who have their own viewpoints. That's what democracy is all about. To try and treat Europe as if it is one country is simply ignoring the reality of the situation.

To those of you who claim that we don't have much in common with Europe is to ignore the last 2000 years of history. We share many of the same philosophies and ideologies. What other continent embraces capitalism, liberalism, and democracy as much as the US does?

Lastly let us not forget what the US is---the only current superpower in the world. There's a reason we're interested in what happens to and in Europe, and it's not altruism. It's pure self interest. Europe and the US are so intimately tied together that you cannot seriously expect Europe to have taken active measures to prevent the Iraq war once the US had decided it was going to happen (we already had made it clear we would go with or without Europe, so what could they have done?)

I feel that the United States should pull back all its military and foreign support. 100%! It has never been appreciated by any country! With the technology of today there is no need to have bases in any country! Leave only an embassy and keep to our own shores! But then tighten every belt including the immigration one. Let people do what we had to in the past; earn the right to be called an American. No longer make loans of any kind and no more humanitarian aid what so ever! Not until we as a country are 100% - American, healthy, fiscally balanced and each citizen housed and fed! Zero imports! 100% self sufficient! In every way. By that time, the world will wake up to see just how valuable a friendship can be, or ask themselves: What have we done? Call us in about 100 years! If we don't answer, leave a message! We'll get back to ya!

nato

Mr Swoffer's post from today needs to be realistic. Let's not talk about debt to the UN or NATO, when Europe, nor Russia has even thought about paying the interest on what they received in Wars I or II or the following years of reconstruction & defensive postures. I agree that Europe should make their own policies, & perhaps we should take our bases & their economic benefits out of Europe. However, after that, how would the Europeans get any exercise, if they couldn't protest march against the US, or compete in the US markets without subsidies. [Realistically, major global corporations would throw what I would call an old-fashioned "hissy fit" were any of the above was even contemplated, unless they could make a dollar or a billion out of it.]

Europe has turned into the soft vacation spot that Cuba once was for Americans. We want them to be there for us to enjoy when we want and to shut up the rest of the time. They have done very little (other than the constant assistance of the UK) to make anyone reconsider that "Europe should not be taken seriously" stance.

While they may have good intentions in keeping their noses out of the world's business, they end up looking like a toothless, old codger who hides indoors and complains about hooligans' making noise at night. We do what any neighbor would do: nod, smile, and wave to the old man looking out his window, hoping he may watch and actually alert us one day if someone is scouting our house out for criminal activity. Getting on his bad side would mean no one was watching out for us on his side of the road. Gates is making sure Europeans know we still "care" and are likable by nodding, smiling, and waving. No harm there.

I think the opposite. We should work towards a stronger NATO. Yes, it will take time and effort to get Europe to pull its weight, but if we are successful, we would have an alternative to a pusillanimous and ill led United Nations, to help us pursue a meaningful foreign policy. Anyone who thinks we will be able to develop strong alliances in Asia, other than with Japan, that could be be of any use in a military confrontation, is dreaming. Let's develop a strong NATO, with strong ties to Japan and Australia and take it from there.

Whiny, unappreciative and short-sighted as they are, Europe is the wellspring out of which our society emerged from and remains our Other Half within Western Civilization. Our fates are inexorably linked and "letting them go their own way", as their societies are being undermined by Islamists (both the active agents of chaos and the quiet acquiescing masses) will bode poorly for our own immediate well-being and the long-term prospects of liberal, democratic and inclusive Western society.

Europe needs to be willing to sink its own money into its own defense. It's easy to say "get your bases out of here" but then who is going to defend you when you won't defend yourself? What has changed for European defenses since Yugoslavia disintegrated? By the looks of it, nothing. America shouldn't be the world police, and the longer the Europeans sit on their hands about these issues, the less right they have to complain.

As the saying goes, put up or shut up.

I would love nothing more for U.S. to withdraw. This would get rid of the One World union being backed by many. The problem is that Europeans whine whenever they need our money and interference. When we give it and take a lead, they whine about us taking the lead.

They're like spoiled little children who stamp their feet every time they want something. Europe = Paris Hilton. Ha!

Europe needs to be willing to sink its own money into its own defense. It's easy to say "get your bases out of here" but then who is going to defend you when you won't defend yourself? What has changed for European defenses since Yugoslavia disintegrated? By the looks of it, nothing. America shouldn't be the world police, and the longer the Europeans sit on their hands about these issues, the less right they have to complain.

As the saying goes, put up or shut up.

Bill Swoffer you have the power! You surely are a citizen of a soveriegn European nation. Please use that facility so we may accomdate your exit from US tyranny.

BTW... good luck in maintaining your socialist paradise.

We want Ron Paul, and we want him now!

No more entangling alliances!

Yeah!

They'll never, note, develop their own defenses against radical Islam if they are not principally burdened with their own self-defense. We've got to return the burden to them. Elect Ron Paul and see that happen.

Living in Central Europe I am very much surprised - in spite of some knowledge of the U.S. - that American commentators as well as other citizens try so much to prescibe to Europe what it should (or is supposed to) do. We Europeans may be "old" - just because we have a far longer history which the Americans should envy us? Is "old" a failure or disgrace? We fee the dead-weight of the American "superpower" but go our own way leaving the U. S.going its own. Too much of the American "glory" is simply a show.

True enough...and while we are at it, why not let Israel do their own thing free of US interference (or support). Let them stand on their own two feet rather that keep running under the skirts of US defensive posture.