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This is interesting dialogue. Unfortuantely, the issue of Islamic killing Islamic seems to be left out of the equation. Why is that? Why is the issue of a 7th century incident still still a focal point and has yet to be resolved?
Religious differences as a whole has killed more within and out of the respective religion and yet I have yet to read this aspect as the center for argument.
Why is that? Because in spite of all religous calls for unity both within and out is blinded by the obvious fact that those who call for this unity can't grasp the idea we should look at ourselves as Bipedal HUMANS.

Doing away with religion is like trying to stop smoking. Religions feeds the addiction of routines and a false sense of purpose. The hypocracy of religion is the root of 99% of the planet's problems. From the idea of supremacy to the concept of implied differences, religion has done more harm to earth and its inhabitants.

The idea of an earthquake and a storm being an "Act of God" is the most ridiculous concept ever conceived and continued to be believed.

The time spent praying and thinking about what keeps us apart needs a revision and not soon enough. The idea of "Doing unto others as you would have them do to you" should be the basis for existance.

But first we have to kill all those who won't take this idea to heart. Ah,
ah, just another religious concept.

This is nothing but another attempt by the US administration to fabricate evidence of being threatened. Anyone with two neurons left working can see that Iran is no threat to the US nor they want to be. The only threat to peace and world stability is the the only nuclear State in the area backed by unconditional support from big brother and sugar dady Uncle SAm

Sorry, Sabra proof is in the pudding, Israel and America have killed by a factor of AT LEAST 20 or 30 to 1 more Muslims than the other way around. Israel in the last two years alone bombed Syria and invaded Lebanon. Yet, we are to believe that a country that has no nukes, no nuclear weapons program, no ballistic missiles that can reach the US is a threat to world peace. How about the little Jewish Sparta in the middle east, and how about the numerous bombings and shock and awe campaigns America has partaken of in that part of the world. I know we always kill bad people and only bad people, and America and Israel is always justified in spilling blood. In fact, if America bombs and occupies you, you should be grateful they are just trying to give you freedom. Yes freedom from your life, freedom from your resources, and freedom from your sovereignty. And in the case of one poor 14 year old Iraqi girl they not only wanted her life, but her virginity, and the lives of her entire family and they took that as well, by force. Facts are facts, if you want me to document all of Israel and America's military actions in the middle east for the last 50 years I will, with cites to back it up. But I am afraid I have to work today and I don't want carpal tunnel.

Ed,
Let's value human life, lets denounce killing by anyone, lets prosecute murderers... and lets see how many Americans are killed by Middle Eastern Muslims, and how many Middle Eastern Muslims are killed by Americans....
And lets hear what you've got to say about that.

Would you even dare to talk about Iranian passenger plane shot by US missile and all passengers killed, US giving weapon and intelligence to Saddam to kill Iranians, and then count me Americans who are (proven to be) killed by Iranians? Would you even dare going there? Would you?

Lets hear what you've got to say.

What is with Fazard? A good dose of thorazine and a rabies shot might put a dent is this vile and overly agitated person. Please, find some other venue to vent the rage of persecution felt. Get your facts straight and quit being another Rush Limbaugh. One is enough. Enough if enough

America and its little love child Israel have killed 1 to 3 million Muslims in the last 50 years, I know when we kill or when Israel kills it is always justified. VIOLENCE BEGETS VIOLENCE.

It amazes me that these comments are so bias. Muslims make tapes of beheading Americans with rusty can openers and listen to the man gurgling to death then hold his head in the air in triumph. What people are these? We hold accountable Americans for any vile act committed. I will not forget Mr. Pearl's life. WMD maybe they are hidden, let us ask some Kurds about chemical warfare. Those five boats buzzing about create serious issues, remember the Cole.

I don't believe this story for second M. I respect your opinion. How come the guy didn't make other comments. I have made crank phonecalls as kid, you usually try to get as much mileage out of it as you can. Why didn't he throw in a "baba booey" comment or anything. How come the guy chose just one very strategic fear inducing comment. No some spook doctored the tape, and maybe the Bushies knew that eventually this forgery would come out. But it is a classic propaganda technique the lie will be repeated many times and very few people will get the truth. Last week, every media outlet ran with that supposed comment "you will blow up in a few minutes". The fact that the statement has been completely debunked only gets about 10% of the coverage of the original story no TV stations are even talking about the fact that the statement was inaccurate. 90% of the people who heard about the story in this country probably still attach that comment to the nefarious Revolutionary Guard. THIS IS A CLASSIC PROPAGANDA PLOY RIGHT OUT OF JOSEPH GOEBBELS AND KARL ROVE PLAY BOOK.

Think about this scenario: one guy, with a radio, sitting in his cabin (inside or outside those 3 US ships) said those two threating statements (that i'm coming and you'll explode), exactly when Iranians were supposedly doing their own routine check If this scenario happened, US video and audio would be correct, there'd be no background noise and this will explain accent too.
Any ideas?

al75: Whenever U. S. Navy vessels transit congested shipping channels, they keep all kinds of plots and records of the transit, in case the get into a collision or other incident, in order to have evidence to (one hopes) show that they were in the right. I certainly hope that every U. S. Ship in such a circumstance has video techs doing documentation of the transit. All such charts are NOT classified. Specificly, the surface plot, the navigation plot, and all associated logs are important ships documents, but not classified as a matter of routine. Any competent navigator or line officer can work from such logs to determine just who did what, where, when, and (mostly) how. In a board of inquiry that is all evidence.

Which leaves just one question: How did the snippets of the video get out in only twenty four hours?

When the administration wants its "evidence out in public, twenty four hours isn't all that long.

This administration is back to looking for an excuse to attack Iran. This was a trial balloon.

God help us when the real balloon goes up.

Bauka, I am an agnostic, but i was born a muslim and I don't take kindly to having the females in my family called cows. I made a post on the Washington post using the term Zionism, and they blocked it. But you can come on to this website and call Muslim women cows and they won't block it. That is all you need to know about the bias of the American media. Period end of story.

AND TRUST ME I CARE NOT FOR THE OPINIONS OF PEOPLE THAT I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WHATSOEVER. BUT I LIKE USING THEIR COMMENTS TO SHOW THE TRUE AND UGLY FACE OF WHAT THE RIGHT HAS BECOME IN THIS COUNTRY. IN FACT, I TRY TO BAIT THEM INTO SHOWING THEIR TRUE NATURE. THE FAR RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO WORLD PEACE IN THE ENTIRE GLOBE. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE REALIZE WHAT KIND OF MONSTERS THE FAR RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY TRULY ARE. AND I AM JUST THE CAT TO DO IT.

I have a vendetta against the neocons, and I will attack them and do my best to destroy what little reputation they have, i want to make it so people have to hide the fact that they are republican and feel shame that they ever voted for Bush. That is the appropriate response when you support a lying mass murderer, certain people deserve stigmatizing, you know like child molesters and neocons. If we don't delegitamize these people they will rear their ugly heads and massacre another third world nation before you can turn your head.

For all of the precious time "wasted" explaining their points of view, it seems quite a few have too much time on their hands and take what others say way too seriously.
The perception of some words and the "slander" implied is just a play to get the "other side" to react. To get so riled over words is truly the mentality and maturity of a child. Calling for someone's blood and cutting their heads off to justify is truly the calling of a deranged and sick individual/group.
Stick and stones can break my bones but word can never hurt me should be a saying many groups should focus on.
Get over it and just laugh off the rantings of a few who really make no difference in the scheme of things. Sit down relax and read a good book, preferable not the Quran.

Farzad: you make excellent points. Why diminish them with all the "suck down that crow" nonsense?)JR

Because, JR, when I first questioned the veracity of this story, which on its face is illogical and internally inconsistent; I had every conservative supposed "patriot" come in here and call me a jihadi, and say that they want to "kick my a--", and that I am "an America hater" I hate the Islamic Republic of Iran's government more than any of you they stole my inheritance and my father's businesses.

IT IS TIME THAT SOMEONE STIGMATIZED AND ATTACKED THESE PHONEY PATRIOTS WHO REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD FOR PEACE AND THE WORLD OR AMERICA. THEY COVER THEIR BIGOTRY AND VIOLENT BLOOD LUST WITH RIBBONS, AND I AIN'T GOING TO STAND FOR IT. THEY DON'T LOVE AMERICA THEY JUST WANT TO BE RIGHT AND THEY WANT THEIR SIDE TO WIN.

These phoneys have smeared liberals and turned the word liberal into a dirty word. Well it is my personal mission to make sure that Bush, his supporters, and neoconservatism and militarists in this country get tarred with the same brush. It is time liberals got off of their butts and start fighting these people. These war supporters should get spit on when they go to the grocery store for what they have done to all of us. AND TO THIS DAY THEY WON'T ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE, ALL THEY DO IS INSULT PEOPLE WITH NO KNOWLEDGE AND NO INFORMATION TO BACK ANYTHING UP EXCEPT FOR PHONEY PROPAGANDA STORIES. IT IS MY PERSONAL MISSION TO TURN NEOCON AND BUSH INTO A DIRTY WORD, JUST LIKE THEY HAVE DONE TO LIBERALISM.

When one of these dirtball, brainless, short-bus riding neocons comes in here and calls Muslim women cows, call me crazy I take offense to that. The guy is slandering my mother, my aunt, my sister, my nieces, and I am supposed to play nice. I don't play nice, I hate these people with every fiber of my body, you haven't tasted the racism I have, you haven't had people slander every female member of your family on a blog, and then have others come in and chuckle it up. SCREW THEM, I HAVE EXPOSED THEM, I HAVE BEEN CONTINUALLY RIGHT AND I AM GOING TO BEAT THEM OVER THE HEAD WITH THEIR OWN STUPIDITY.

Farzad: you make excellent points. Why diminish them with all the "suck down that crow" nonsense?<<

K... My A..

It's clear as a babies butt that this was another attempt by the Bush administration to provoke war, and to get the mind-controlled American people to think that it would be a justifiable one.
Unfortunately for the Pentagon misfits Iranian military personnel aren't as backwards as their own and had a camera standby to register any irregularities during their inspection of the U.S. vessels. At present the bullies U.S. and its lap-dog Israel are the only two nations that are a real and imminent thread to world peace and stability, with their continuing attempts to use false-flag operations to justify their attacks on innocent sovereign nations that happen to have what they want to control: oil, gas and territory e.g. to build pipe lines (Afghanistan).

//This episode shows that you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Similarly, you can bring a standard American Republican face to face with peace and he will still want war.

And so it goes//

Still climbing up the wrong tree - after all of this time? I keep asking myself when I read your posts; how did this guy make it that far and ever become an engineer? At first, you called me a neocon, a spy, amd now I am John Q. Republican. Let me know when you figure out I am an Independant that thinks that evolved neodems are headed on a path that brings this country to its demise. Let me know when you figure out that we cannot afford a war with Iran - just like we cannot afford a national health give away. On second thought don't bother, I don't care what you think or how you say it..

Farzad: you make excellent points. Why diminish them with all the "suck down that crow" nonsense?

So ... I guess the Iranians boarding and kidnapping UK sailors ... that was just smoke and mirrors ... didn't really happen.
And the USS Cole ... Bush blew it up himself?
As far as invading Iraq? What a bunch of ingrates in the Gulf! Saddam had invaded Kuwait, and threatened Saudi Arabia and their oil fields. The US decimated his army and ability to make war, and Kuwait was freed. As a result of his actions, the UN imposed certain conditions, which he violated for 10 years. Then, finally after 9/11 the US could no longer have a Muslim leader who openly supported sucide terrorists, thumb his nose at the US and the world, and risk his uniting further with like minded radical muslims in their hate toward America.
Osama Bin Laden planned his attacks on America based largely on his view of America's retreat from minimal casulaties in Somalia ... we had to correct that view, or risk many more thousands of innocent american lives in more terrorist attacks.
The real danger is America getting compacent again, electing a liberal democrat, who will look to appease terrorists and terrorists nations ... and once again run up the white flag with the paper tiger logo.

Of course, Mr. Arkin never suggests the obvious: FIND OUT WHY AND HOW THE ADMINISTRATION IS FAKING CONFRONTATIONS WITH IRAN.

That's just too direct and straightforward, isn't it? We should just "move on" from questions about the integrity of the Bush Administration--not to mention its impeachable offenses. Shouldn't we.

With this incident we have strengthened our "friends", meaning, those who at least understand we are not going anywhere, and diminished our enemies.)Matthew Obst

HOW HAVE WE STRENGTHEND OUR FRIENDS AND DIMINISHED OUR ENEMIES BY SHOWING THAT OUR LEADERS ARE WILLING TO RESORT TO THE CLUMSIEST AND MOST INCOMPETENT FORM OF MISINFORMATION IN ORDER TO START A WAR. I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS REASSURED BY THIS INCIDENT, WHICH CAST THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AS BOTH DISHONEST, AND INCOMPETENT. Bush lied and the US government dubbed the socalled threat into the tape, not to mention there other creative editting that we aren't privy to or hasn't been discovered yet.

PS AMERICA HAS DONE NOTHING FOR IRAN EXCEPT DESTROY THE IRANIAN VERSION OF GHANDI OR LINCOLN WHEN THEY OVERTHREW MOHAMMED MOSSADEGH IN ORDER TO GET A BETTER PRICE ON "THEIR" OIL. That event in 1953 has been the downfall of the Iranian nation, and in fact led to the revolution and the Iraq war. This is no conspiracy theory the CIA considers this there greatest success and they brag about. WOW WHAT A FAVOR, I WONDER WHY THE IRANIANS AREN'T GRATEFUL, JUST LIKE THOSE UNGRATEFUL IRAQIS WHO DON'T SEE THE VALUE IN BEING "SHOCKED AND AWED".

Good post again Dimitry. The racism and disgusting bigotry of conservatives is here for everyone to see, naked and exposed. All it takes to destroy this story is some first year logic, that is it, the story isn't even internally consistent. What the Iranians did whether provocative or not is really irrelevant to me. No one died, and nothing happened.

BUT THE VAMPIRE BUSH ADMINISTRATIONS SORRY ATTEMPT TO USE THIS TO SOW THE SEED OF CONFRONTATION IS WHAT FRIGHTENS ME. AND WHAT FRIGHTENS ME EVEN MORE IS HOW AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES WILL FLAGELLATE THEMSELVES IN ORDER TO FIND SOME PRETEXT TO PROTECT BUSH AND TO ATTACK THEIR PERCEIVED ENEMIES.

Facts, are facts, the US government was the one who first pumped up this story and they just weren't counting on the fact that the Iranians would be recording as well. This is further validation for what we already know about this administration; they are bloodthirsty, deceitful, and incompetent to boot. And the willing accomplices in the American media again dropped the ball, none of the TV stations are correcting their erroneous stories from 3 days ago, so Bush is at least able to fool most of the country who doesn't pay close attention, and just watches a few minutes of news on TV. This reminds of the fake story regarding the non-existant "Israel should be wiped off the map" comment, which morons today are still repeating as if it actually happened. Never mind the fact that the quote in question never used the word Israel, never used the word "map", and that there is no farsi expression equivalent to the American expression "wiped off". In farsi, "wiped out" or "wiped off" is something that is only used to describe cleaning your kitchen counter. In short, the duplicitious liars in this administratio are the real enemies of America.

SUCK THAT CROW DOWN YOU LYING, BIGOTTED, BLOOD THIRSTY SAVAGES.

AND PLAINFACTO YOU HAVE SCORED NO IMAGINARY RHETORICAL VICTORIES OVER ME. JUST LIKE THE PRESIDENT YOU KEEP SUPPORTING YOUR PERCEIVED VICTORIES ARE NON-EXISTANT OR PREMATURE. WHY DON'T YOU DRESS UP LIKE MAVERICK FROM TOP GUN AND FLY ONTO AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER WITH "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED BANNER" TO DOCUMENT HOW YOU SCORED SUCH A VICTORY ON SOME OTHER PAGE OVER MY LOGIC.

==//Both NewYork Times and Guardian reported today that Pentagon has done a climbedown saying now that the voice in their video may not be from Iranians but from a civilian crew having fun in a nearby merchant ship !//

I never did buy the sound track. But that is hardly the real isssue - is it? The action that the Iranians took - officially authorized by Tehran or not - was of a provocative nature. You could have used the sound track to 'Fantasia' on that video and you would still see their vessels coming too closely and directly at the USN.==

Don't confuse me with the facts, right?

Doctored, likely forged video/audio evidence presented by the political information officer of the USN?

Never mind, just look at these manacing Iranians!

History of similar events in the past that both sides considered routine?

Never mind, we must counter Iranian aggression!

Full climb-down by the "enemy" in order to diffuse and de-escalate whatever incident occured?

Never mind, these people are devious Muslims!

-------------------------------------------
This episode shows that you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Similarly, you can bring a standard American Republican face to face with peace and he will still want war.

And so it goes.

Plainfacto: "Lets first understand that the USN has been travelling through these very same Straits continuously for the past sixty years; "

That's right... actually, longer... Since the end of WW1, when the U.s & British navies changed from coal fire to oil power.

Ever since, there has been a British or US fleet in the region

So... What gives them the right, some dead peace chief... I mean sheik, who sold his country's wealth for power & pottage 100 years ago?

It's the oil stupid.

Yes, I could not agree more that inter army communication is more than helpful. I regret that Mr. Bush had any part in the response . It would have been more appropriate and perhaps beneficial for these other channels to communicate.
That said: The radicals strategy is to light brush fires everywhere they can and make use of the conflagration.
Let us learn from past stories. It is my understanding that when U-2 pilot Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union. President Eisenhower had prior to this, ordered no more flights over the SU in anticipation of a scheduled disarmament conference. I read an account of George Kistiakowski (sic), developer of the trigger mechanism of the atomic bomb, explaining that he was meeting with Eisenhower, in the White House, when their meeting was interrupted with notification of the news of the shooting. Eisenhower is said to have become absolutely livid. The message here is that dissident or rogue elements are always a possibility in government and in the military. Our ships in the Persian Gulf responded in an extremely restrained manner. Hats off to them for avoiding a real incident. Their professionalism is remarkable. They have prepared to be buzzed by neighboring nationals because that is what any neighboring national, in a dispute, is going to do.
So what does it look like we have here: Rogue elements in the Iranian navy that must have been nearly 100% sure that they would provoke a firefight.
It is my view that we have helped the Iranians in many ways, such as removing aggressive neighbors from all of their borders and now once again we do them a favor by providing them with valuable information. There must be many within their military and body politic that are grateful (or who at least understand that we have economic needs too, along with the normal requirements of any international power) and would have a way to relay their gratitude if we and current history allow them to. With this incident we have strengthened our "friends", meaning, those who at least understand we are not going anywhere, and diminished our enemies.

//Both NewYork Times and Guardian reported today that Pentagon has done a climbedown saying now that the voice in their video may not be from Iranians but from a civilian crew having fun in a nearby merchant ship !//

I never did buy the sound track. But that is hardly the real isssue - is it? The action that the Iranians took - officially authorized by Tehran or not - was of a provocative nature. You could have used the sound track to 'Fantasia' on that video and you would still see their vessels coming too closely and directly at the USN.

//That is scary that something so stupid can start a war. Something is very wrong here//

Lets first understand that the USN has been travelling through these very same Straits continuously for the past sixty years; our presence there was neither provoking, unwarrented, or anything new. The only new element to this situation is that the Iranian Coast Patrol thought they could get some air time and add inappropriate propaganda to their own liking. And they did. It can be likened to what Brittany Spears does to get into the press. Good press or bad press - it is still press - for those who are seeking attention for themselves. It is just as true for Iran...

Both NewYork Times and Guardian reported today that Pentagon has done a climbedown saying now that the voice in their video may not be from Iranians but from a civilian crew having fun in a nearby merchant ship ! That is scary that something so stupid can start a war. Something is very wrong here.

Actually, I made some tomato bisque soup and garlic bread. Thanks for asking...

I understand that you ate some crow on the previous page? It is just like any other bird, like a chicken, if you cook it right. Or so I have been told; that isn't first hand knowledge.

I read a recipe written by Hillary that showed how she will cook it; she has been told to get on the crow diet now. Apparently, she is trying to get used to the idea of eating crow before she gets into the White House and screws everything up. There will be a lot of people that will bring her buckets of Col. Sanders Kentucky Fried Crow for her to eat.

At least she will have something to eat, most of us will go without and starve to death when she makes her last, big mistake...

Other then that i am doing just peachy keen, Plainfacto, thanks for asking. Good evening now, my work is done for today.

OK Farzad - what is your major malfunction today?)Plainfacto

WHAT IS MY MAJOR MALFUNCTION, I WAS THREATENED WITH VIOLENCE, CALLED A JIHADI, AND I HAD MY ETHNIC HERITAGE SLURRED, SOME IDIOT EVEN CAME AND SUGGESTED THAT I KILL MYSELF SO THAT I CAN GO TO HEAVEN AND QUOTE GET:"72 MUSLIM COWS" AS MY REWARD FOR COMMITTING A SUICIDE BOMBING. AS IF MUSLIM WOMEN ARE COWS. AND ALL I DID WAS TELL THE TRUTH AND TRY TO EDUCATE THESE FOOLS WITH MY PRECIOUS AND VALUABLE TIME.

And quite frankly, I despise the neocons and the fools who dress their blood lust and bigotry up as patriotism. Additionally, the morons in the media need to be shown how to do their job. I want to know how I was able to beat the NY times, the Washington post and every other worthless propaganda mouthpiece news agency in this megabillion dollar industry, and all i had to do was exercise a tiny bit of logic and do 10 minutes of digging. The only people that repulse me more than the neoidiots are Bush's willing accomplices who have audacity to call themselves journalists. Arkin gets a pass because at least he made some kind of critique. The blood of 600,000 people is at least partly on their hands. In a just world the pundits would share a cell with the senior Bush administration officials. Joseph Goebbels never pushed any jews into gas chambers, he just disseminated the big lies to the public at large through the German media. Ruport Murdoch and the rest of the mainstream media are no better than Joseph Goebbels. (For you neocons who don't like reading he was Hitler's propaganda minister.)

In 20 years telling people you voted for Bush will be considered almost as bad as having cast a vote for Hitler in 1933. Better come up with your cover story now for your grandchildren. Just like all those old Germans who got collective memory loss of their activities during the war. I hope you come up with better fables than 5 poor man's Seadoos terrorizing a destroyer.

PS HOW DOES THAT CROW TASTE

//QUESTIONS: The Pentagon-released video hit the news service in less than 24 hours after the incident. How did this happen?//

Welcome to the digital age; how long does it take you to burn a CD?

//Was the tape an "official" document?//

It is as official as it needs to be to go along with the DoD press briefing.

//How usual is it for a videotape to be made from the bridge of a US military vessel?//

In a time of crisis, the Pentagon and Dept of the Navy may want to review the CMNDR's actions, orders, and how wll they were carried out from the bridge. Did you see the Iranians doing the same thing - yes? Again - welcome to the digital age.

//Wouldn't such a tape be classified, and risk revealing important data about our ships?//

Anything sensitive to he workings of that vessel would be omitted. The tape was anything but chronological; don't you agree?

//Was the tape screened first to omit such information.//

Yup

//I'm no expert, but wouldn't this usually have to go through "channels" that would take alot of time?//

If you consider what a hot button issue this is, and the fact that the US Navy has seventeen partner nations in this region, and they have been making this same patrol for the last sixty years - yea, they can let every concerned party know they are on the ball - not underneath it.

//How did it happen so fast?//

Again - welcome to the digital age...

OK Farzad - what is your major malfunction today?

Don't look now - but there are Bushies in the closet - closest to your computer. They are going to sneak out when you get yourself some tea and write something on this site using your computer to do it - and sign with Frank's name again. Yes, the big letter monster is going to make your arguements null and void once again. Beware of the Ides of March.

There are pills designed for what ailes you - you know. Ha Ha. I hope you realize that I am just jammin' on you.
Go have some tea...

QUESTIONS: The Pentagon-released video hit the news service in less than 24 hours after the incident. How did this happen? Was the tape an "official" document? How usual is it for a videotape to be made from the bridge of a US military vessel?

Wouldn't such a tape be classified, and risk revealing important data about our ships? Was the tape screened first to omit such information.

I'm no expert, but wouldn't this usually have to go through "channels" that would take alot of time?

How did it happen so fast?

Yes Alex,
but the fact that America
has lowered its own ethical standards below the proverbial hard deck, one
would have to wonder about which
category "a" or "b" does America
fall into itself, in the
eyes of the rest of
the world!

Obviously, the Iranians don't
trust America, and I wonder
why?

The Rev warned you folks last year
that the next time, America's
enemies would likely come by boat
instead of by plane the next
time.

One might refer to the behavior
that these boaters enaged in
as boat diplomacy; if they
had been Americans, then
the definition would
change to gunboat
diplomacy!

Moral equivalency again -
except when America
enages in such
behavior it
is lawful,
when any other nations,
enemy combatants, or
so-called terrorist
engages in such
behavior it
is egregious,
hostile,
unlawful
and a
perceived
act of
war!

These folks were liking warning us,
how long can we as a nation and
people keep holding to a
double standard Alex?

Tell me you patriotic, America loving conservatives how I am evil for telling the truth and using facts to back up my arguments.George Bush who is trying to lie us into a second war that many of our children will die in is this grand America loving patriot. Honestly, I think the 30% of people who still like and defend this guy must have all taken the short little yellow bus to school, and when the teacher gave them a pair of scissors it was the round safety scissors. TRY READING A BOOK AND USING YOUR BRAIN BEFORE YOU COME IN HERE AND THREATEN PEOPLE WITH VIOLENCE OR THROW RACIAL EPITHETS. YOU FOOLS ARE THE ONES WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT AMERICA, YOU JUST WANT TO BE RIGHT, AND CAN'T ADMIT A MISTAKE, AND YOU DRESS UP YOUR PARANOID BLOOD LUST AND BIGOTRY AS PATRIOTISM. Seriously, shame on all of you who support and cover for this devious butcher, I don't even know how you can look at yourselves in the mirror. Are your little yellow ribbons going to grow back the appendages that your idol idiot Bush got blown off in his oil man's war. Just having to talk to you people makes me want to vomit.

Here is why the entire story is an obvious fabrication:

1. No background noise on the supposed threat, "you are going to blow up", while there is background noise at other parts of the dialogue. Unless you neomorons want me to believe that you can cruise around at 40 miles and hour in a speedboat in open ocean and make a crystal clear recording.

2. The timing is suspicious, so convenient for the decider, He goes out to the gulf to show up Iran as reckless and dangerous, and the Iranians do something on VIDEO that is reckless and dangerous

3. I don't believe for a second with the level of tensions between Iran and the US that 5 speed boats could harass a US destroyer for 20 minutes, and threaten to blow them up from 2 football fields away and then have the US destroyer sit there and not blow them out of the water.

4. The Iranian tape seems to show a very cordial and unthreatening conversation, everything seemed pretty routine

5. It makes more sense that the Iranians where just trying to find out which boat it is and where it is going, as opposed to playing high seas chicken, the one thing the Iranian revolutionary guard has never been accused of is a lack of discipline. The Iranian version of the story on its face sounds way more believable, they where just doing some intel and tracking. Or we are to believe that 5 speed boats decided to play a reckless game of chicken with a destroyer that could blow them out of the water, while a state of tension exists with the US, Occum's razor dictates that Iran's simple explanation makes more sense.

6. The navy admitted to merging the audio and video, and has now back tracked off of their initial story not 48 hours after they released it. IF YOU WANT TO SEE HOW RIDICULOUS THE DOUBLE TALK IS FROM THE NAVY SPOKESMAN, JUST GO LOOK UP THEIR SILLY QUOTE ON ABC NEWS I PROVIDED THE LINK EARLIER TODAY AND SOMEONE REPOSTED IT.

7. It fits into the entire modus operandi of the Bush administration; create irrational fear through wild stories about everything from dirty bombs, to nigerese uranium, to Iran/Taliban connections, so on and so on for 7 years.

8. What happened during the other 16 minutes they aren't showing, and why won't they release it now that there claims have been called into question

9. We know that the Bush administration is actively trying to discredit Iran and portray them as the biggest threat to the world since smallpox.

10. Why, would Iran even risk a confrontation, just at the moment that they seemed to have bought time for themselves, and when the air seems to be let out of Bush's sanctions drive.

11. The Bush administration is desperate every allegation they have thrown against Iran has been controverted by very strong evidence. Their bogus "Israel should be wiped off the map claim" is another urban myth that they have managed to fool the stupid with, not to mention the shiite Iran working with Shiite hating Taliban. In short, nothing seems to be working in their anti-iran drive and how better to kick start some sort of momentum then to portray Iran as a threat.

12. This is a classic propaganda technique, that they actually got a way with in relation to fake "Israel should be wiped off the map" trick. The lie gets headline coverage in all the newspapers, and the truth or retraction gets minimal coverage. Therefore, some people are still walking around today thinking Iran threatened the US that is what they saw in the headlines, but the truth that is now coming out will just be buried in the back pages, and most people will never see it or register it.

IT IS TIME THIS MAN WAS IMPEACHED AND PERP WALKED TO THE NEAREST MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON. AND REMEMBER YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, I SHOT THIS BOGUS STORY DOWN IN 5 MINUTES TWO DAYS AGO. LIKE I SAID FEEL FREE TO SEND ME YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS I SEEM TO DO A BETTER JOB OF REPORTING THAN THE BOGUS AMERICAN MEDIA AND THEIR MEGA BILLION DOLLAR RESOURCES.

I do this for a living and this story as we lawyer's say in the profession just doesn't pass the smell test, I have read enough BS witness statements and police reports to know when someone is lying.

Ok if some American official somewhere didn't dub the quote:"you are going to blow up a few minutes", how come they are changing their story know, how come the Iranian tape shows a very cordial conversation where they even suggest changing radio channels to speak. How come there is no background noise in regards to the above-referenced quote, WHEN THE REST OF THE AUDIO HAS BACKGROUND NOISE. HOW ABOUT THE FACT IT IS HARD TO GET CLEAR RECORDING WHEN YOU ARE SPEEDING AT 40 MILES IN HOUR IN A MOTOR BOAT ON THE OPEN OCEAN. BUSH STORY GETS TORN TO SHRED BY THE IRANIAN TAPE AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE MESSAGE CAME FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. MAYBE IT IS KARL ROVE'S VOICE IN A CORNEY CAB DRIVER ACCENT DUBBED IN FOR AFFECT. I DON'T KNOW 4 SURE, BUT THIS STORY MADE NO SENSE FROM THE BEGINNING, U R TELLING 5 IRANIAN SPEED BOATS CLOSED TO WITHIN 2 FOOTBALL FIELDS OF US CARRIER AND THREATENED TO BLOW THEM UP, AND THE US DESTROYER HELD ITS FIRE. FOR WHAT MOTIVATION? AND THE TIMING IS SUPER SUPICIOUS RIGHT WHEN BUSH IS FLYING OUT TO THE GULF TO PUMP UP THE IRAN THREAT. I am sorry, but Bush has exposed himself as a bigger liar than the man who said there are no homosexuals in Iran.

//What is most galling about all of this is that George's lies, arrogance, and basic ignorance has so conditioned us that we automatically now assume that he is telling lies.//

Here's a stunning monkeywrench in your aft section. Mr. Bush wasn't on board; it wasn't his action. In fact, it was the responsibility of the CMNDR that provoked the circumstance; it was his to action to do as he saw fit.

We didn't see vessels run up to the ships to give them a speeding ticket; they could have gotten the hull numbers from at least a mile away in order to register their complaint. But the Iranians didn't choose this response; instead, they moved too close to the USN and were grateful they didn't recieve chain gun rounds for their effort.

The Pentagon and the Dept of the Navy are the ones that are responsible for their CMNDR's actions. How is possible to blame Bush for what the CMNDR saw fit to do? The CMNDR knew better of the Rules Of Engagemnet in this circumstance, and did not fire on the vessels. He did the right thing by doing nothing at all.

I am sure the Iranians were just jealous they do not have navy that can do what they will, with good CMNDR's that are aware and can handle the situation from undue escalation. I'm sure they will probably re-deploy their mini-subs so they can take it to the next level. That narrow section of the SOH can too easily become the scene of the first shots fired of the next war.

No matter what side of the isle your on,one has to admit that it is a pretty sad and serious indictment of leadership when the people of the U.S. cannot be sure if it is the madman Ahmadinejad or their own president who is lying to us. Equally appalling is the fact that time and time again when the facts are eventually revealed Bush usually turns out to be the most demonstrative and dangerous madman of the two.

I never got to the Indian Ocean, and so I never got to do a navigation problem it the Straight of Hormuz, but I have done nav problems through the Inland Sea, and I think I can picture just what MAY have actually happened:

Per Wikipedia ( I haven't the inclination to look up U. S. Navy nav charts for the area) the Straights are demarcated into a six mile wide set of navigation lanes, one inbound and one outbound, each two miles wide, and separated by a two mile wide nautical equivalent of the green strip between roadways on the interstate.

These lanes will be properly marked on any nav chart for the area, and they will have special rules, speed limits, entry and exit lanes, etc. A quite typical speed limit for such a navigation zone might be fifteen knots in the high speed lanes. Control vessels from Iran and the United Arab Emirates patrol the area and issue traffic tickets for vessels that break the rules.

Smart alec U. S. Navy officers often push the limits, or flat out speed, violate lane restrictions, or even take "short cuts", like the short cut that put the U. S. Leahy hard aground on Fort Number Three in Tokyo Bay in the 1970's. Local patrol boats get hull numbers, file the reports, and the ships get find just like any American breaking the law on our local highways.

This smart (not allowed to use the only word that fits) behavior is common in the Navy, especially by ships that won't be retransitting the area any time soon. Our own Commodore almost put the DDG he was riding on aground on the West end of the Straights of Shimonoseki because he had her going too fast and dithered on which channel to take leaving the Straights on their western end. Thankfully the tide was exceptionally full or he would have been aground for several days before they could have refloated him. HE was a VERY senior Captain. Knew EVERYTHING. Except the standards for transitting Shimonoseki. (even us E-4's knew he was going the wrong way before he did.) It is a long and boring, but hectic transit of Hormuz, and all it takes is some strutting paykok of an admiral to decide that HE doesn't have to follow the rules (they do it all the time) to get the local sea going gendarmarie, out there in those kind of small boats, to come screaming up to get hull numbers, documentation on film and video, and other evidence of US out of position to get the behavior that you see in the films. Happens all the time.

What is most galling about all of this is that George's lies, arrogance, and basic ignorance has so conditioned us that we automatically now assume that he is telling lies.

To date, we haven't been wrong in our assumptions.

What makes Isreal such an innocent and precious state? I don't recall them jumping thru hoops for their nuclear arsenal or being condemmened for agression against its neighbors. Maybe if we treated everyone as equally good or bad as the case may be we'd have a little more respect
and legitimacy in the mid-east or the world for that matter.

When security of any country is at critical level, it must take extraordinary precaution than usual. Such as is considered as normal. Do you all think Iran has fallen under such circumtances? I would say it is. Why we all concern about Iran behaviours to protect them instead of USA or Bush behavioursto invade other countries? Does USA have any business in Persian Gulf other than to threathen Iran for its nuclear project. Do you think Iran has every right to pose nuclear arsenal as other countries do to protect itself? In my point of view, smaller countries should have nuclear arms to protect any invasion from big countries as it is happening right now. Let say if Iraq or Afghanistan pose nuclear arms do you think US invades them? Surely the answer is no!

"We're saying that we cannot make a direct connection to the boats there," "It could have come from the shore, from another ship passing by. However, it happened in the middle of all the very unusual activity, so as we assess the information and situation, we still put it in the total aggregate of what happened Sunday morning. I guess we're not saying that it absolutely came from the boats, but we're not saying it absolutely didn't."

- U.S. Navy Spokesperson Practicing 'Rumsfeldian Brain-Suck Speak' In Re Alleged Threats Made By An Iranian Attack Craft Commander In The Gulf Of Hormuz

Official Version of Naval Incident Starts to Unravel

The new information that appears to contradict the original version of the incident includes the revelation that U.S. officials spliced the audio recording of an alleged Iranian threat onto to a videotape of the incident. That suggests that the threatening message may not have come in immediately after the initial warning to Iranian boats from a U.S. warship, as appears to do on the video.

Also unraveling the story is testimony from a former U.S. naval officer that non-official chatter is common on the channel used to communicate with the Iranian boats and testimony from the commander of the U.S. 5th fleet that the commanding officers of the U.S. warships involved in the incident never felt the need to warn the Iranians of a possible use of force against them.

Further undermining the U.S. version of the incident is a video released by Iran Thursday showing an Iranian naval officer on a small boat hailing one of three ships.

The Iranian commander is heard to say, "Coalition warship 73, this is Iranian navy patrol boat." He then requests the "side numbers" of the U.S. warships. A voice with a U.S. accent replies, "This is coalition warship 73. I am operating in international waters."

The dramatic version of the incident reported by U.S. news media throughout Tuesday and Wednesday suggested that Iranian speedboats, apparently belonging to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard navy, had made moves to attack three U.S. warships entering the Strait and that the U.S. commander had been on the verge of firing at them when they broke off.

Typical of the network coverage was a story by ABC's Jonathan Karl quoting a Pentagon official as saying the Iranian boats "were a heartbeat from being blown up".

Bush administration officials seized on the incident to advance the portrayal of Iran as a threat and to strike a more threatening stance toward Iran. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley declared Wednesday that the incident "almost involved an exchange of fire between our forces and Iranian forces". President George W. Bush declared during his Mideast trip Wednesday that there would be "serious consequences" if Iran attacked U.S. ships and repeated his assertion that Iran is "a threat to world peace".

Central to the depiction of the incident as involving a threat to U.S. warships is a mysterious pair of messages that the sailor who heard them onboard immediately interpreted as saying, "I am coming at you...", and "You will explode after a few minutes." But the voice in the audio clearly said "I am coming to you," and the second message was much less clear.

Furthermore, as the New York Times noted Thursday, the recording carries no ambient noise, such as the sounds of a motor, the sea or wind, which should have been audible if the broadcast had been made from one of the five small Iranian boats.

A veteran U.S. naval officer who had served as a surface warfare officer aboard a U.S. Navy destroyer in the Gulf sent a message to the New York Times on-line column "The Lede" Wednesday pointing out that in the Persian Gulf, the "bridge-to-bridge" radio channel used to communicate between ships "is like a bad CB radio" with many people using it for "hurling racial slurs" and "threats". The former officer wrote that his "first thought" was that the message "might not have even come from one of the Iranian craft".

Pentagon officials admitted to the Times that they could not rule out that the broadcast might have come from another source

In full: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40747

It would appear Bush administration's little ploy to generate U.S. sympathy during his trip was, like his Iraq invasion venture hastily and clumsily put together and now seen for the obvious facade it is. All the while imploring the world to believe what they are telling us and not what our eyes are seeing.
There comes a point (a point long past) where the sheer volume of Bush's deceptive shell games have reduced him to a comical yet deadly mad man on par with the Iranian President in gall , arrogance and denial of reality.

//BUSH GOT CAUGHT IN ANOTHER LIE, HOW DOES THE CROW TASTE, AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE FEATHERS?//

I don't know how feathers taste Farzad. Of course, I'm not your hated neocon. I can imagine that you do know how it tastes though, from what I can see from Arkin's previous page. Man, you really took one for the team, eh?

Wow, I can see that all it takes to make make evolved neodems look like they really don't have a legitimate claim to the White House, is to run everything in capitals and be reasonable of our chances if we pull out of Iraq - huh?

I cannot speak from personal experience, but I am hearing eveolved neodems saying that if you take the feathers off first, and us a little bar-b-q sauce and put it in a 325 degree oven for an hour - it is palatable. Just remember to take the head off first,; or else the bird will have the last wink!
Bon Apettite!

rev writes:"the Bush Administration has
one set of rules for America, and
a completely different set of rules
for all other nations of the world,
we already know that."

Well yes rev, thats pretty reasonable. I'd trust some people to carry guns but would have a very dff standard for the twice convicted felon or I would hire the college grad vs a high school grad . There is no "pure" equality in the world, thats human nature. Dont you trust some people more then other's ? Your statement doesnt make sense because its founded on an irrational
belief. If you want to argue that "b" is just as trustworthy as "a" because...", then at least you have the basis of a debate, otherwise yr premise kills any rational discourse.

Did you know???

I didn't know! ........................ How could we???

Did you know that 47 countries have reestablished their embassies in Iraq?

Did you know that the Iraqi government
currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated,
364 schools are under rehabilitation,
263 new schools are now under construction
and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq ?

Did you know that Iraq 's higher educational
structure consists of 20 Universities,
46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
all currently operating?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed
for the United States in January 2005
for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
They have 5 -100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels
and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraq 's Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft
(under Iraqi operational control)
which operate day and night, and will soon add
16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist
unit and a Commando Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
fully trained and equipped police officers?

Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100
building projects going on in Iraq ?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics,
15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations,
22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities
and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5
have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were
enrolled in primary school by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000
cell phone subscribers in Iraq
and phone use has gone up 158%?

Did you know that Iraq has an independent
media that consists of 75 radio stations,
180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange
opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi
presidential election had a televised debate recently?

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!

WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW?

BECAUSE...

OUR MEDIA WOULDN'T TELL US!

How can anyone in the global community take Iran serious? They are trouble makers, plain and simple and everyone knows it.

John

The real question is how can anyone
take America serious? We are arguably
the real troublemakers in the world,
unless you want to overlook pre-emtpion,
invasions, duplicity, genocide...!

And the answer to the question is:
No one takes us seriously, they are
simply afriad of American weapons,
and many nations require trade,
markets, credits... with America!

Get in the real world john--and stop
pushing American propaganda!

What to Make of the Iranian Videotape:

David Letterman said it best (when
referring to UBL, their
writers are still working, how come
ours aren't working - okay, this is
serious, I know?

The fact is that we don't need any
media source to tell us what we already
know, the Bush Administration has
one set of rules for America, and
a completely different set of rules
for all other nations of the world,
we already know that.

It doesn't matter what happened, the
fact is that we will invade your
country and take down your government
and you are supposed to sit there,
you and your friends and take it -
or you know what!

America needs fresh leadership and
a new philosophia - the current
leadership is warped!

Farzad,

Re. your claim that Bush "forged" the audio portion of the US video. Could you provide a little more clarification please.

Are you're claiming that Bush and company created the last 30 seconds of the US video (the "you will explode after two minutes" audio only part) and then edited it onto the footage shot from the US Hopper?

If that were the case, then that last 30 seconds of audio on the tape was never received on the bridge of the Hopper at all.

But one can clearly hear the same radio talker featured on the other segments of the video ...as well as assorted bridge background noises. In fact, the US radio talker repeating the message "You will explode in ...2 ... minutes..??" with some doubt in his voice that he heard the signal correctly.

//Unless we stem American bleeding in the Middle East and do our damnest to make what happens there irrelevant to our strength and power by becoming independent of them, our days as a superpower are numbered//

Who keeps saying that we are the 'only superpower'? China is a superpower, Russia is a superpower, UK is a superpower, EU is a superpower, one can possibly argue that India and Pakistan are superpowers - because of their nukes.

OK, so Hillary or Obama gets into office and pull the troops out of Iraq. Six monthes - or less - later, we will have to go back in because some terrorist will blow up a pipeline in Iraq and force gas prices to ten dollars/gal.

We will have to go back, just because we will suffer a tremendous economic catastrophy if we don't. And this time, it will be necissary to go after Iran - who will be blamed for this incident (right or wrong - it won't matter). Which means that we will have to put in a couple of million troops - some twenty times the amount that we have in Iraq presently. And if you thought the cost was high and was bad before? Baby; you ain't seen nuthin' yet!

Then everybody will blame Hillary or Obama for acting improperly, and end up hating them FAR MORE than they ever could have hated Bush. This circumstances will dictate it so. In fact, everybody will be saying that 'gee- I guess Bush was right in the first place; now we are in MUCH worse shape'. By then - of course - it is far too late to go back, and we will be forced to get millions of people killed. Both us and them.

Be CAREFUL of what you ask for; you just might get it.

This just in Bush administration officials have found a recording of iranian Revolutionary guard agents working closely with Santa's Elves to drop IEDs down our chimneys this Christmas. DOES JOLLY OLE SAINT NICK KNOW ABOUT THIS, OR IS HE PART OF THE ISLAMOFASCIST CONSPIRACY, I NEVER TRUSTED HIS BEARD.

Bush dubbed the threat into the video, now he is a liar, forgerer, mass murderer, torturer, and thief. Vladmir Putin was right about the bush administration when he said that they act like a bunch of "maniacs running around with razor blades."

This just in Bush administration officials have a recording of Iranians threatening to blow up an American aircraft carrier, by making a pact with the Easter Bunny to poison our easter eggs.

BUSH GOT CAUGHT IN ANOTHER LIE, HOW DOES THE CROW TASTE, AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE FEATHERS? NO BACKGROUND NOISE ON THE SUPPOSED "YOU WILL BLOW UP" COMMENT, WHILE THE REST OF THE RECORDING HAS IT, AS IF SOMEONE DUBBED IN THE LAST DAMNING PART OF THE AUDIO INDOORS. ALSO NOT TO MENTION THAT THE INCIDENT WAS 15-20 MINUTES LONG AND OBVIOUSLY THE ADMINISTRATION HAD IT EDITTED TO MAKE IT LOOK AS THREATENING AS POSSIBLE.

It is finally, time that we investigate this criminal, impeach him, try and convict him, and sentence him to life without possibility of parole with hard labor. Lying in an attempt to start a war is a war crime punishable under international law.

Yes - except that the propaganda is pointed in the other direction. It is still a confrontation - by default. Hey - they also had a videocam there - it shows that they were prepared for this.)Plainfacto

NO YOU ARE WRONG BUSH WAS CAUGHT TRYING TO DUB AN NONEXISTANT THREAT INTO THE VIDEO, THE PENTAGON IS NOW BACKING AWAY FROM THE EARLIER CLAIMS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. SO THE PROPAGANDA IS VERY CLEARLY COMING FROM THE LIARS IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. SO LETS ADD FORGERY TO THE LONG LIST OF BUSH'S CRIMES. And the fact that Iranians have video camera doesn't prove anything other than that they are trying to do some intel gathering, and they just lucked out that the Bush administration would try to pass a cheap forgery off as "EVIDENCE". Bottom line, there is no background noise on the supposed threat, kind of inconceivable if you consider the kind of noise generated by speeding around in the open ocean, in small power boats. And meanwhile background noise appears every where else in the recording as if the threat was dubbed in at a studio or indoors somewhere. The aggression is coming entirely from the weasel faced mass murder Bush. And I am not the one saying this, it is the NY Times, ABC news using the statements of the Pentagon.

I don't understand why the public has chosen to wait out this gang's term in office, trusting that he won't get us in another idiotic war. He will do his damnest to do exactly that. These neocons think the only flaw in their plan is that we didn't drop enough bombs.

The next superpower will be the one who controls the energy. Going for it militarily was a bust, and we don't have a few billion footsoldiers to spare like China. Without sufficient American students to train (gee, I guess there were consequences after all for teaching people that science is BS), our grad schools in science, math and technology are training China's and India's students to develop the next energy revolution. Unless we stem American bleeding in the Middle East and do our damnest to make what happens there irrelevant to our strength and power by becoming independent of them, our days as a superpower are numbered.

YOU GUYS GOT TO LOOK AT THIS QUOTE BY THE US NAVAL SPOKESMAN CASTING DOUBT ON THEIR EARLIER CLAIMS THAT IRANIAN BOATS THREATENED THEM, IT IS PRECISELY THE WAY A WITNESS TALKS ONCE YOU HAVE CAUGHT THEM IN A BOLD FACED LIE, DAMN IRANIANS WHO THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE TAPING THE SAME INCIDENT, you know that is what the forgers in the administration are thinking:

(Today, the spokesperson for the U.S. admiral in charge of the Fifth Fleet clarified to ABC News that the threat may have come from the Iranian boats, or it may have come from somewhere else.

We're saying that we cannot make a direct connection to the boats there," said the spokesperson. "It could have come from the shore, from another ship passing by. However, it happened in the middle of all the very unusual activity, so as we assess the information and situation, we still put it in the total aggregate of what happened Sunday morning. I guess we're not saying that it absolutely came from the boats, but we're not saying it absolutely didn't." )

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4115702&page=1

//At this point, Washington has two choices: It can release every shred of intelligence and information it has in an attempt to show how the Iranians are lying.//

Washington/Pentagon will not release any more that what has been said. They are quite satisfied that the Iranians are showing a hostile posture. It is the wake-up call message sent to the American people - even if the audio portion was a phony as Farzad's rhetoric.

//Or it can let the matter drop and focus instead averting these types of incidents in the future. If it chooses the latter, it may find that Iran is a more willing partner than it appears.//

The chances of this matter going to oblivion is an impossibillity. The Pentagon will be showing the Iranian video instead of their own. Because it demonstrates that Iran is willing to threaten safe passage of future vessels - which means oil barges may be threatened or attacked.

//What Tehran is saying, after all, is quite similar to what the U.S. Navy is saying.//

Yes - except that the propaganda is pointed in the other direction. It is still a confrontation - by default. Hey - they also had a videocam there - it shows that they were prepared for this. They knew that whatever happens along that coast will have to reviewed by Tehran.

==-D, yr missing it.Its "Mexico" that Iran attacks. In the article its Canada and Mexico. Why would Americans be dead ?. The US is "Iran" in Noam's twisted (which is painful to even read because his parallels are so detached from any comparison, thats why only leftists quote the guy, his too left to be mentioned by sane thinkers)analogy.==

Chmosky raises questions, it is up to you to answer them. Most people don't raise any questions at all, they just do and think what they are told.

So...

Wouldn't altruistic "Iran" chose to liberate the US next, given its beneficent nature and our "troubles"? In Chomsky's analogy, American liberation by Iranian forces surely would come next. They are already demanding our disarmament and are threatening massive bombing campaign to achieve this.

Our leaders talk about the change of government of the actual Iran all the time, as if it is the most right and natural thing to do - for one country to overhtrow the government of another to "help its people".

There is but nobody except "weird" people, like Chomsky, Kucinich and Paul on the national scene, who think our country shouldn't be in the "overthrow" business. Pretty much all Republicans and most of the Democratic "serious" foreign policy experts, uniformly think that it is America's natural God given right to invade any country in the world for purposes of what they would call "liberation". They only dissagree with utility, success chance and costs associated with these glorious enterprises.

The fact that American people by and large do not want their country to do these things does not deter these leaders in the least.

I applaud yr ability to say this. It is a credit to this country that Bush lovers and haters can exchange criticisms and insults. Do you think this could happen in Russia ? China ? or Iran ? Enjoy yr freedoms Farzad, this country fought really hard the past few hundred years so that immigrants(me included) can come from all over and do this. While its no problem for you to exhibit such vitriol at the current administration of yr host country, I wonder why you dont direct all this vitriol back at yr native Iran.)Alex

ONE PROBLEM I DON'T LIVE IN IRAN, WHAT GEORGE BUSH DOES IN THIS COUNTRY WITH MY TAX MONEY AND IN MY NAME CONCERNS ME MUCH MORE THAN THE MANY EVILS OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. My heartaches for the poor people in my birth nation, and I believe in my heart that the evil cabal run by Cheney and Bush is a threat both to Iran, to America, and the world at large. So I am serving the people of Iran and America by continually being right and exposing the truth about Bush's murderous and deceitful policies.

I USED TO BLOG AT OTHER SITES AND I HAVE ON NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS DENOUNCED THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. BUT IF IT WILL MAKE EVERYONE FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES, THE REGIME IN IRAN IS A BLIGHT, BUT IT ISN'T IDIOT BUSH'S JOB TO DECIDE FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE MIDDLE EAST. I don't equate patriotism with being nice to weasel faced mass murders that have damaged this country, possibly irreperably, and who have designs for even more mass murder. I AM NOT KIDDING YOU WHEN I TELL YOU THAT GEORGE BUSH, WITH THE RESOURCES AT HIS DISPOSAL IS A BIGGER THREAT TO WORLD PEACE THAN KIM IL JONG AND AHMADINEJAD. WITH AWESOME POWER COMES RESPONSIBILITY, AHMADINEJAD DOESN'T HAVE 1/1000TH CAPABILITY OF BUSH IN TERMS OF POWER AND ABILITY TO CREATE HAVOC. IT IS A FACT, THAT IRAN HASN'T INVADED ANYONE SINCE OH ABOUT 1850, MEANWHILE THE WARMONGERS WHO HAVE RUN OUR GOVERNMENTS IN RECENT YEARS SEEM TO DEVISE NEW WARS EVERY THREE TO FOUR YEARS. Besides, Ahmadinejad isn't spending my money on his immorality, but Bush is spending my money and he is killing in our name.

Therefore, let me worry about my leader's corruption, immorality, and blood thirstyness. And let the Iranians deal with their Ayatollahs and unfortunately we have to deal with our Ayatollah Bush. AND BY THE WAY IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE EVIL ONE BUSH, IT IS ALSO ABOUT THE WHOLE MINDSET OF MIGHT MAKES RIGHT AND MYOPIA THAT GEORGE BUSH REPRESENTS. GEORGE BUSH IS JUST A SYMPTOM OF THE DISEASE, AND WHEN HE IS GONE I AM SURE ANOTHER POSSIBLY WORSE LEADER (MCCAIN) WILL PROBABLY FOLLOW HIM. Even Hillary is part of the warmongering alliance, so it isn't even about Republican or Democrat. THE GREAT AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE REASONABLE AND PEACE LOVING THAN OUR POLITICIANS, WE DESERVE BETTER THAN THE SIX FEET OF STACKED COW SCAT THAT CALLS HIMSELF THE DECIDER.

Dimitry writes:If this hypothetical Iran parallels our history in actual Iraq, there would be many hundreds of thousands of dead Americans as a result of their liberation.

-D, yr missing it.Its "Mexico" that Iran attacks. In the article its Canada and Mexico. Why would Americans be dead ?. The US is "Iran" in Noam's twisted (which is painful to even read because his parallels are so detached from any comparison, thats why only leftists quote the guy, his too left to be mentioned by sane thinkers)analogy.

In a document created by Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Zoellick, Richard Perle & Dick Cheney known as the Project for the New American Century, referred to as PNAC, America seeks to control all of
the world's resources through whatever means necessary, especially through the use of military might.
Sunday's incident was mean to coincide with Bush's trip to the Middle East to emphasize the need for America's presense in that part of the world. Bush and company will attack Iran before he leaves office. The result will be the next World War, as Russia & China will not sit by idly and allow their ally Iran with whom they have billions of dollars in guaranteed oil and gas contracts to be controlled or disrupted by the almighty US.

For more on the PNAC please visit the following websites http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

==I would thank Iran and hope they stay for a long time.==

I would not, for I do not want to live under an occupation.

If this hypothetical Iran parallels our history in actual Iraq, there would be many hundreds of thousands of dead Americans as a result of their liberation.

You can rest assured that I would be part of the insurgency, while you will be in the collaborator nomenclature.

After the removal of the foreign occupation your kind usually does very badly.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident
USS Maine
Opeation Mongoose
Bay of pigs invasion
WMD

Frida writes- And the last one: I am really interested in this part of article by Noam Chomsky on "What If Iran Had Invaded Mexico?":

-well, if Mexico was ruled by a genocidal maniac and threatened the US /Canada and other countries in the hemisphere and invaded a peaceful neighboring country like Guatemala for there oil in the 90's...then I would thank Iran and hope they stay for a long time.

farzad writes:"So when I say that George Bush is a liar and murderer, I think the record is clear."

I applaud yr ability to say this. It is a credit to this country that Bush lovers and haters can exchange criticisms and insults. Do you think this could happen in Russia ? China ? or Iran ? Enjoy yr freedoms Farzad, this country fought really hard the past few hundred years so that immigrants(me included) can come from all over and do this. While its no problem for you to exhibit such vitriol at the current administration of yr host country, I wonder why you dont direct all this vitriol back at yr native Iran. They need some serious change from there madman and you coming over here blasting Bush wont really help the situation in yr own country. There are many brave Iranian journalists/authors who are fighting the good fight against Ahmed, You should add yr voice to there's. Bush may not be an angel but at least in another year he will be gone, Ahmed and his madmen look like they have an indefinite stay.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Telephone companies have cut off FBI wiretaps used to eavesdrop on suspected criminals because of the bureau's repeated failures to pay phone bills on time.

One FBI office had $66,000 in unpaid telehpone bills.

A Justice Department audit released Thursday blamed the lost connections on the FBI's lax oversight of money used in undercover investigations. Poor supervision of the program also allowed one agent to steal $25,000, the audit said.

In at least one case, a wiretap used in a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act investigation "was halted due to untimely payment," the audit found. FISA wiretaps are used in the government's most sensitive and secretive criminal investigations, and allow eavesdropping on suspected terrorists or spies.

"We also found that late payments have resulted in telecommunications carriers actually disconnecting phone lines established to deliver surveillance results to the FBI, resulting in lost evidence," according to the audit by Inspector General Glenn A. Fine.

More than half of 990 bills to pay for telecommunication surveillance in five unidentified FBI field offices were not paid on time, the report shows. In one office alone, unpaid costs for wiretaps from one phone company totaled $66,000.

The FBI did not have an immediate comment.

Iran plays games like this all the time. They play little childish games...they do not want to underestimate America! They have been warned and Bush don't play. Bush means what he says. Don't do it again!

Turns out that the Pentagon has cast doubt on its own video.

Funny how Arkin simply takes it for granted that the Iranians are the liars.

Remember the Vincennes incident, where the US Navy claimed that the ship was "defending" itself in "international waters" - and four years later Adm Crowe admitted on Nightline that the ship was in Iranian territorial waters?

When will these pundits stop acting and propaganda mouthpieces?

Will you apologize now, Arkin?

Hey, neocons, tell me Ive always wanted to know,"HOW DOES CROW TASTE, DO YOU PREFER YOURS RARE OR WELL DOWN, MMM TASTY". Oh what is that sound? I think it is the sound of George Bush trying to extricate his foot from his own mouth again. You can hear it all the way from the Gulf.

You heard it here first, NY times reporting that pentagon officials now believe that the threatening voice heard saying "you will blow up in a few minutes" is a fake or hmmm, a "mistake". Yeah the mistake is that they didn't know the Iranians where taping as well. That was the mistake they made in this phoney scam. Tehran is laughing at this silly man, and quite frankly who could blame them. Don Quixote is out to slay his mythical dragons again.

All these conservatives have been threatening me with violence and denigrating my race and my loyalty for days now. AM I YOUR ENEMY OR IS THIS ADMINISTRATION WHO CONTINUALLY LIES TO YOU AND MAKES YOU LOOK FOOLISH YOUR ENEMY. I KNOW GEORGE BUSH IS A PATRIOT FOR GETTING 4,000 AMERICANS KILLED IN HIS PHONEY OIL MAN'S WAR. I have been vindicated again, I'll wait patiently for your apologies and thank yous. I SCOOPED THE MIGHT NY TIMES AND THE MIGHTY WASHINGTON POST, HA HA HA HA HA HA. HOW DO THEM APPLES TASTE. YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST, START SENDING YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS TO ME AND I WILL KEEP YOU BETTER INFORMED THAN THE SPINELESS AND BRAINLESS SHILLS IN OUR MEDIA. HERE IS THE TRICK YOU CAN TELL BUSH IS LYING WHENEVERR HIS LIPS ARE MOVING. So when I say that George Bush is a liar and murderer, I think the record is clear.

(The list of those who are less than fully confident in the Pentagon's video/audio mashup of aggressive maneuvers by Iranian boats near American warships in the Strait of Hormuz now includes the Pentagon itself.
Unnamed Pentagon officials said on Wednesday that the threatening voice heard in the audio clip, which was released on Monday night with a disclaimer that it was recorded separately from the video images and merged with them later, is not directly traceable to the Iranian military.
That undercuts one of the most menacing elements from the Pentagon's assertion that Iranian forces threatened the Navy ships: The voice on the radio saying, "I am coming to you. ... You will explode after ... minutes."
Here's an excerpt from an article in this morning's New York Times on the Pentagon's assessment of the audio:

The audio includes a heavily accented voice warning in English that the Navy warships would explode. However, the recording carries no ambient noise -- the sounds of a motor, the sea or wind -- that would be expected if the broadcast had been made from one of the five small boats that sped around the three-ship American convoy.
Pentagon officials said they could not rule out that the broadcast might have come from shore, or from another ship nearby, although it might have come from one of the five fast boats with a high-quality radio system. )Ny times

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/degrees-of-confidence-on-us-iran-naval-incident/index.html?hp

HA, NO BACKGROUND NOISE ON THE SUPPOSED THREAT THAT YOU WILL "BLOW UP IN A FEW MINUTES". NOW THE PENTAGON COMES AND CONTRADICTS BUSH AND STATES THAT THEY CAN NOT BE CONFIDENT THAT THE VOICE HEARD "THREATENING" THE US DESTROYER CAME FROM THE IRANIAN SPEEDBOATS. UNBELIEVABLE, NOW BUSH'S LIES ARE GETTING DESTROYED FASTER THAN HE CAN CREATE NEW ONES.

You don't want to believe me, how about the New York times and the Pentagon source who has basically admitted that the bogus threat was dubbed in later.

Show me evidence of Iran funding terrorism. If you mean helping hezbollah fight off israeli agressors then we (I am Iranian) are guilty. If you mean helping Hamas financially to stand against american lead agressors, then we are guilty. If you mean Sept the 11th you better start writing about your allies. If you mean London bombings you better look at american allies. We help people oppressed by american war machine. Quite unlike American who supply bombs to their friends and allies to destroy half of lebanon to kill women and children. I really do not understand some of the things I read here. I was born on this planet just like all the people who write here. I have as much rights as anyone else from any country. So what gives the american man the right to build and USE the most destructive weapons on the planet but no else the right to defend themselves. I must add that although I hate Israeli(american) aggression against palestinians but I also completely disagree with those who say Israel must not exist as they just like you and me have the right to be here on this planet, but not at the expense of ethnically cleansing and building settlements on other peoples land.

You can see the full clip WITH audio here:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=38190§ionid=351020101
or alternatively:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f6_1199959765

And no it is not an Iranian helicopter, it's an American one, IRGC may release the entire 20 minute incident and make a new embarrassment for US forces, if you think this is not enough.

Here are some pointes I inferred from the whole story:

- I don't think the US navy simply lets Iranian speedboats approach its naval ships and threaten to blow them up while the US navy let them do their business.

- The recording from the US Army has no ambient noise. The sounds of a motor, the sea or wind.

- How can a speedboat threaten a very large naval vessel? Does a naval ship will be exploded by a small boat?

- And the last one: I am really interested in this part of article by Noam Chomsky on "What If Iran Had Invaded Mexico?":

".... how we would act if Iran had invaded and occupied Canada and Mexico and was arresting U.S. government representatives there on the grounds that they were resisting the Iranian occupation (called "liberation," of course). Imagine as well that Iran was deploying massive naval forces in the Caribbean and issuing credible threats to launch a wave of attacks against a vast range of sites -- nuclear and otherwise -- in the United States, if the U.S. government did not immediately terminate all its nuclear energy programs (and, naturally, dismantle all its nuclear weapons). Suppose that all of this happened after Iran had overthrown the government of the U.S. and installed a vicious tyrant (as the US did to Iran in 1953), then later supported a Russian invasion of the U.S. that killed millions of people (just as the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran in 1980, killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians, a figure comparable to millions of Americans). Would we watch quietly?..."

Dimitry writes:"What would happen if Iran would send a eavesdropping equipped warship to sit in international waters off Norfolk, a mile away from the demarcation line with all antennas pointing toward shore?"

-No one would really care, I think we would go out and ck on them once and a while and make sure they are not lost and see if they need food or water. We are a global power and a threat to Iran. Iran is a local power and really cant do much globally except fund terrorists. I think we would love it if the Iranians did conventional things like surveillance planes and spy ships, that would be a relief. Its not that simple as " how would we feel if the Iranians sent ships off our coast ..."

Since the advent of satellites, I am uncertain how much signal intelligence is conducted on the ground or at sea. If for no other reason but Iraq, the U.S. Navy will be operating in the Gulf. These types of incidents were common in the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. If the Iranians get too close firing across the bow has been naval practice for centuries.
After the phony Gulf of Tonkin incident which marked the official beginning of the Vietnam War, and the smirk on Bush's face discussing the latter incident, some suspicions are justified. Sharon had the same type of smirk on his face when he accused Syria of receiving Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Imagine that in the first "energy crisis" Jimmy Carter had had more influence than the oil companies. Imagine if Ronald Reagan had told America that it was patriotic to conserve, to develop alternate energy sources including spurring and funding research and development, and set a firm (and funded) national goal toward energy independence. Imagine if he sold "energy war bonds" to finance it without taxes in true Republican fashion, and told Americans it was patriotic to buy them. Imagine if President Clinton had had more influence than oil companies and used some of his surplus (in Democratic fashion) to fund "Manhattan II", the project to make us energy independent. Imagine if dubya had told Americans it was patriotic to become energy independent - hell, he could have even given no bid contracts to his friends and family in the oil industry to do the R&D so it didn't even cut into their profits.

Now imagine what our involvement in the Middle East would look like. The region would still be full of repressive regimes and disgruntled young men looking for a scapegoat in the customers who still rape their land for oil, only it wouldn't be the US. Our army would be intact and concentrating on real threats to our national security like loose nukes from the old Soviet Union (no they're STILL not even close to secure), the nutjob in North Korea, and Russia planting a flag at the North Pole claiming the natural resources there. Growth in China and India might make new trading partners for us, instead of competiton for oil that really could torch off WWIII. We might even have the strength to exert some influence in Burma or Rwanda or places where tyrrany and genoicide rule. The world might still fear and respect our military might.

One can only imagine.

Just wandering...

What would happen if Iran would send a eversdropping equipped warship to sit in international waters off Norfolk, a mile away from the demarcation line with all antennas pointing toward shore?

Would we simply acknowledge its presence with a radio exchange and a close approach and allow it to go about its business, as required my international treaties?

Or not?

If Bush didnt have so much power his dishonesty and stupidity would be funny. He is like a modern day Don Quixote trying to slay his windmill dragons. The bottom line, we don't know for sure which government's propaganda divisions is correct. But judging by the fact that Bush, has established a modus operandi of ruling through fear, inneundo, and misinformation; I tend to disbelieve everything he says. AND I DON'T NEED TO RELY ON THE VERACITY OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. OUR OWN INTEL AGENCIES, THE IAEA, AND NATO COMMAND IN AFGHANISTAN CONTINUALLY CONTRADICT ALL OF BUSH AND CHENEY'S FEARMONGERING. IGNORE WHAT THE IRANIANS HAVE TO SAY, BUT LOOK AT THE TRACK RECORD OF THESE PEOPLE.

They rule through fear, 7 years of dirty bombs, aluminum tubes, nigerese uranium, WWIII analogies, and fake from Ahmadinejad threatening Israel. Bush's case against Iran is an even bigger case sham than his case against Iraq.

I QUOTE A GREAT AMERICAN:"FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU....(STUTTER) ....(BLANK EXPRESSION)...DUH..UH...WELL YOU AREN'T GOING FOOL ME AGAIN."

Mr W.Arkin get your head out of Israel's arse and write the truth. Stop calling for a war you blood thirsty man. Last I checked it was US and Israel that are still chasing and possessing the most weapons of mass destruction. Perhaps you should ask the jewish god why he feels so many palestinians have to die so that his chosen people get to rule.

==I would send you all packing... soon enough we'll have the fluffy socialist government that you so wildly want.==

If you send "us all" packing, you are going to get rid of a majority of this country's population, a very large chunk of the military, and likely some members of your family.

It needs to be pointed out that the US video captured some of the radio conversation between a fast boat and the USS Cole; and the radio conversation in the Iranian video was between a fast boat and the USS Port Royal.

What would really help clear this is up would be a time stamp on both videos so people could understand the chronology of events as they unfolded. I really don't think that's forthcoming.

I personally think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill here. This incident is much akin to the encounters that often occurred between US and USSR surface combatants during the Cold War. Miscommunication, posturing, and risky seamanship were the principle culprits then. Communications were cleared up to a great extend by a US-USSR Incident at Sea Agreement codifying communications signals and procedures, what was considered dangerous action (pointing a gun at a ship wasn't necessarily considered 'an imminent threat' ... lighting up a ship with a gunfire control radar was), etc.

Though I agree with Arkin that a professional dialogue between any two Navies is conducive to improved communications and understanding of each others intent, that CAN'T happen until formal diplomatic channels between the US and Iran are restored. And as long as the US is calling for regime change in Iran as part of their written National Security Strategy, the possibility of re-establishing formal direct diplomatic channels are remote.

Secular Americans taking the side of a hard-line Islamic nation? I didn't think I'd ever see this. What most Americans don't know unless they care to look, is that the Iran is a ticking time bomb, the question is not if we go to war with Iran but when...The Iranian government, headed by the Aytollah and his mouth piece and puppet governer M. Ahmadinejad are bent on eschitological action. It serves their purpose that a war start, It makes no since to the secular Western mind, to sacrifice all for a fairy tale but these people, and this president will. The eschitological regime wants to put to action events that they believe will bring about the end of all things, the coming of the 13th Imam.

How can anyone in the global community take Iran serious? They are trouble makers, plain and simple and everyone knows it.

This is the link to both the USA and the Iranian videos of the incident:

http://www.iraqslogger.com/

JUDGE FOR YOURSELF!!!!!

For uncensored news please bookmark:

www.wsws.org
www.takingaimradio.com
www.onlinejournal.com
otherside123.blogspot.com
www.globalresearch.ca

2008 presidential charade promises deepening of government criminality and expansion of war

By Larry Chin
Online Journal Associate Editor
Jan 10, 2008, 00:49

Every election in modern US history has been a criminal manipulation, choreographed and rigged by political elites and performed by hand-picked elite puppets, each backed by their teams of corrupt war criminals, intelligence/security "advisors" and think tank assets. The 2008 affair will be no different.

It is time once again to dispel the mass insanity and unfounded hopes as another fresh election hell ensues. There will be no savior, no end to the continuing world crisis, and absolutely no "change."

The monsters behind each candidate

As the American public once again gets swept up into another beyond, ridiculous carnival over which "presidential personality" is most "likeable," which preselected puppet makes a better speech, etc., there is little or no attention paid to the individuals behind each candidate; the forces that are pulling the strings, and actually setting the geopolitical agenda.

The Washington Post has provided a complete list of each puppet's respective "masters," which must be studied line by line:

The War Over The Wonks: A list of national security and foreign policy advisors to the leading presidential candidates from both parties

This list holds the key to the central issue: war.

As the names reveal, every major candidate (the favored puppets with any real chance of being selected) fronts for agendas set by current and former neoconservative and neoliberal "security" officers and politicos, members of the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, and apparatuses such as the Heritage Foundation, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the Brookings Institution, AIPAC, the Hoover Institution, the American Enterprise Institute, and others.

Some of the most nightmarish individuals who walk the earth today can be found behind the candidates, as follows:

John McCain

* Henry Kissinger

* Richard Armitage, former deputy secretary of state, covert operative and lifelong Bush ally

* Robert "Bud" McFarlane, Reagan/Bush national security adviser, Iran, Contra

* William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard (neocon)

* Alexander Haig, Reagan/Bush secretary of state

* George Shultz, Reagan/Bush secretary of state, Hoover Institution, Bechtel

* Brent Scowcroft, Ford, George H.W. Bush's national security adviser

* James Woolsey, former CIA director

* Lawrence Eagleburger, George H.W. Bush's secretary of state

* William Ball, Reagan administration Navy secretary

* Colin Powell

Barack Obama

* Zbigniew Brzezinski

* Anthony Lake, Clinton administration national security adviser

* Sarah Sewall, Clinton administration deputy secretary of defense, counter, insurgency czar

* Richard Clarke, Clinton and Bush administration counter, terrorism czar

* Susan Rice, Clinton administration Africa specialist and NSC member, Brookings

* Bruce Riedel, former CIA officer, NSC Near East and Asian affairs, Brookings

Hillary Clinton

* Bill Clinton

* Madeline Albright, Clinton administration secretary of state

* Sandy Berger, Clinton administration national security adviser

* Richard Holbrooke, Clinton administration UN ambassador

* Gen. Wesley Clark, Clinton era Kosovo commander

* Leslie Gelb, Council on Foreign Relations, former State and Defense Department official

* Martin Indyk, Clinton administration Israel ambassador, Brookings

* Strobe Talbott, Clinton administration deputy secretary of state, co, creator of Caspian oil "6+2" group, Brookings

* Jeffrey Smith, former CIA general counsel

Rudy Giuliani

* Kim Holmes, former George W. Bush assistant secretary of state, Heritage Foundation

* Louis Freeh, former FBI director

* Stephen Yates, former deputy assistant to Dick Cheney

* Norman Podhoretz, Hudson Institute (neocon)

* Kenneth Weinstein, Hudson Institute

* Numerous individuals connected to the neocon Hoover Institution and Heritage Foundation

Mike Huckabee

Huckabee has been secretive about his team. Among the names floated so far:

* Ed Rollins, Republican operative

* Frank Gaffney, neocon

* John Bolton, George W. Bush U.N. ambassador (as of this writing, Bolton's participation is a strong rumor)

John Edwards

Edwards boasts a large team of career military/intelligence officers, most of whom are "rank and file." Among the more notable names:

* Barry Blechman, Jimmy Carter assistant director of US Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, founder and chairman of the Henry L. Stimson Center

* Irving Blickstein, former assistant deputy chief of Naval operations, RAND Corporation

Mitt Romney

* Cofer Black, former CIA and George W. Bush state department counter, terrorism officer, vice president of Blackwater USA

* Alberto Cardenas, lobbyist and former chairman of Florida Republican party

* Roger Noriega, George W. Bush assistant secretary for Western hemisphere affairs

* Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R, Mich.), ranking member, House Intelligence Committee

You bush hate mongers amaze me. It's like a blame bush party. Now I'm no big fan of Bush, however, I think I'd take his word over a country that has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, did we already forget about that?)Robert Chapman

HERE IS THE PROBLEM AHMADINEJAD NEVER MADE THAT STATEMENT. THERE IS NO FARSI EXPRESSION FOR THE THE AMERICAN EXPRESSION "WIPE OFF". THE QUOTE IN QUESTION DOESN'T EVEN USE THE WORD ISRAEL AND DOESN'T EVEN USE THE WORD "MAP". (See Juan Cole, informed consent)

It is clear that this is all part of Bush's propaganda campaign. And quite frankly, I have no faith in the credibility of the Islamic republic, but I don't believe a word out of Bush's mouth either. You really think a speed boat got within a short distance of US warships, threatened to blow them up and the US warship wouldn't fire on them, especially in light of the tense and strategic location? Please this incident last 20 minutes, it isn't about Bush's word, we know that is no good. This is about facts, and virtually every single allegation Bush has leveled against Iran is either a serious exxageration or a complete fabrication. In an honesty contest between Bush and Ahmadinejad, our own intel agencies sided with Ahmadinejad, that is all you need to know. It is not just the Iranian government that has contradicted Bush's pronouncements on Iran's nefarious actions. The IAEA contradicts, our intel agencies contradict him, and when Dick Cheney said Iran was arming the Taliban, the Afghan defense minister and Nato contracdicted him. I also think the timing is rather suspicious, Bush travels to the gulf to pump the Iran threat, and then all of sudden Iranian speed boats threaten a US destroy. There are numerous questions about the editting of th