There's a reason why we can't all be presidents or vice presidents because the president or vice president must be someone optimistic to lead the country. He must look at the glass half full instead of seeing it half empty.
4000 deaths look sadly bad to us but Bush and Cheney see 168000-4000=164000. Even if 30,000 wounded are taken into the math, the number still looks good to them i.e. 168000-4000-30000=134000.
With 134000 or 164000 troops remaining after 5 years in the war, who dares to say that Bush and Cheney led US into the wrong war?

So You think the war is won (or winnable) just because all that folks are not yet died ?

William Arkin writes: "In that last calculation are the roots of our real national security crisis: People in uniform, people at the CIA and FBI and NSA, those doing to fighting and making the sacrifices, thinking that weak society itself, with its parsimonious standards about spending and its sentimental regard for human life, has become the enemy."

You are spot on about this Mr. Arkin, albeit you have the roles reversed. And this national security crisis you describe so aptly has been perpetrated and perpetuated by members of the decaying fourth estate.

The History that will be written is one of a massive Intelligence failure, bigger then 9/11, or bigger then the non-existant WMD, bigger then the failures in Iraq.

Failure to understand Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri's true global strategy. Since 9/11, they have released many videos audios using the internet in a massive
strategic deception program on the level of the former Soviet Union, or the Chinese PLA, throwing the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA on wild goose chases, sacrificing operatives, operations, playing chess, while everyone else plays checkers.

What have they accomplished? Baited a country into turning Iraq into the biggest Al Qaeda training camp in the Middle East, destabilized a Nuclear Power to the point of collapse, Pakistan, the government, the military, the intelligence services. The Nuclear Scientists from Pakistan did not meet with Bin Laden to discuss how to build a bomb, but rather how the Nuclear Program is a seperate part of Pakistani Politics, and a force of it's own in the Pakistani Government. How to bring Pakistan to it's knees, and behead it. By the time the US Government figures out any kind of strategy, it will be too late, the Nuclear Weapons will be loose, and Pakistan will be reprocessing plutonium on an industrial scale. Warhead designs like W-88, W-89, smaller plutonium warheads, will get loose.

It's not just bombing the enrichment plants in Iran, but also Pakistan, and not allowing Pakistan to produce large quanities of Plutonium, which will eventually get loose.

The numbers in Iraq or Afghanistan won't matter when a loose nuclear weapon goes off, nobody will remember those numbers, and nobody will ever be able to give an exact number, once the weapons are loose. No one will know the numbers in Europe, the United States, or anywhere they strike.

When countries like Iran, or People Like Bin Laden get expert advice, from whom landed in Iran on September 19, 1976, you begin to see how they bait a superpower, manipulate and use deception to craft a global strategy that can change the course of a planets developement economically, religiously, or put a planet on the road to extinction, or genocide.

The History that will be written is one of a massive Intelligence failure, bigger then 9/11, or bigger then the non-existant WMD, bigger then the failures in Iraq.

Failure to understand Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri's true global strategy. Since 9/11, they have released many videos audios using the internet in a massive
strategic deception program on the level of the former Soviet Union, or the Chinese PLA, throwing the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA on wild goose chases, sacrificing operatives, operations, playing chess, while everyone else plays checkers.

What have they accomplished? Baited a country into turning Iraq into the biggest Al Qaeda training camp in the Middle East, destabilized a Nuclear Power to the point of collapse, Pakistan, the government, the military, the intelligence services. The Nuclear Scientists from Pakistan did not meet with Bin Laden to discuss how to build a bomb, but rather how the Nuclear Program is a seperate part of Pakistani Politics, and a force of it's own in the Pakistani Government. How to bring Pakistan to it's knees, and behead it. By the time the US Government figures out any kind of strategy, it will be too late, the Nuclear Weapons will be loose, and Pakistan will be reprocessing plutonium on an industrial scale. Warhead designs like W-88, W-89, smaller plutonium warheads, will get loose.

It's not just bombing the enrichment plants in Iran, but also Pakistan, and not allowing Pakistan to produce large quanities of Plutonium, which will eventually get loose.

The numbers in Iraq or Afghanistan won't matter when a loose nuclear weapon goes off, nobody will remember those numbers, and nobody will ever be able to give an exact number, once the weapons are loose. No one will know the numbers in Europe, the United States, or anywhere they strike.

When countries like Iran, or People Like Bin Laden get expert advice, from whom landed in Iran on September 19, 1976, you begin to see how they bait a superpower, manipulate and use deception to craft a global strategy that can change the course of a planets developement economically, religiously, or put a planet on the road to extinction, or genocide.

Thank you Skip,

And I have been pleased, historically, with your comments!

To the Rev:

Right on brother man. If nothing else it will give them a whole new appreciation for the grunts.

So, what do you think is going to happen next in the Iraq/Iran drama?

Plainfacto,

I would like to interject the following.

America began as an 'occupying nation'. On one hand 'the patriots', as Obama refers to them, left one nation in order to seek freedom. However, and at the same time they took away the freedoms of the original inhabitants of this land, and once free Africans.

Depending on who takes over in Washington DC, Ameica will continue to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan for sure. And as soon as it can afford to, America will occupy Pakistan and Syria, as well as other nations in the Middle-East.

America needs to not only change leadership in Washington, it needs to address its 400 year old flawed, pre and existing union policies.

Failure to do so will result in the following being true: The sun never sets on the American Empire! Tom Jefferson warned America that something like what is happening today could happen!

So, what do you think is going to happen next in the Iraq/Iran drama?

Plainfacto,

I would like to interject the following.

America began as an 'occupying nation'. On one hand 'the patriots', as Obama refers to them, left one nation in order to seek freedom. However, and at the same time they took away the freedoms of the original inhabitants of this land, and once free Africans.

Depending on who takes over in Washington DC, Ameica will continue to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan for sure. And as soon as it can afford to, America will occupy Pakistan and Syria, as well as other nations in the Middle-East.

America needs to not only change leadership in Washington, it needs to address its 400 year old flawed, pre and existing union policies.

Failure to do so will result in the following being true: The sun never sets on the American Empire! Tom Jefferson warned America that something like what is happening today could happen!

//That's about 2 months of what we pay for the privilege of occupying that prize. I see a net saving\\ -Dimitry

So, what do you think is going to happen next in the Iraq/Iran drama?

==correction: Sunnis stand to lose twenty-four billion dollars per year - not twelve billion. ==

That's about 2 months of what we pay for the privilege of occupying that prize. I see a net saving.

plainfacto,

My major thrust is that the Maliki government took a page from the American Republican Party government handbook with respect to governance in Iraq.

The Republican government in America ignored the will of the majority of America's people, and shoved its own agenda down the throats of Americans and nations overseas, just as Maliki is doing in Iraq.

If the American military had not been stationed in Iraq, the Iraqi people would have pursued a different course of action. And when America leaves, the lid will come off - we all know that.

Maliki is loved just about as much by Iraqis, as President Bush is loved in America by America's citzens!

Maliki is viewed as the Presidential choice of the occupiers! He is also loved in Iraq, about as Samaitans (placed in Israel by the Roman Republic)were loved by the Jews...! He doesn't have a friend anywhere.

When he spoke his mind in America a year ago, our governing officials turned on him! Remember? They also wanted to get rid of the pawn!

correction: Sunnis stand to lose twenty-four billion dollars per year - not twelve billion. These figures are based upon 80bln/yr for 28 million Iraqi citizens.

Hey Rev:
Now wait a minute; Maliki isn't any more a Republican than you or I am. He is starting to assert the rule of law and keep the Shiite militia of al Sadr from dominating Basra and pirating the oil revenues from the rest of the Iraqi citizens.

The Kurds stand to lose eight billion dollars per year that would support their own infrastructure/people. Sunnis would lose twelve billion doolars a year - because al Sadr wants to keep it to themselves. You know - Greed.

plainfacto, and skip meadows:

It would appear to me that the only succesful thing that the Maliki government has done is to the emulate the American Republican Republican Party, and ignore the will of the majority of Iraq's citizens.

And Skip, I have a better idea. We should amend the Constitution and make it mandatory that any of the powers that be, who want to run the country, must have done or will do one of the following:

1). Have served in combat in the Armed Forces of the USA.
2). Will take a leave of absence, and immediately begin serving in the Armed Forces of the USA.

Hey, I got a novel approach to the political dysfunctionality in the United States. Let's all forget about any party loyalty and do this together. When the elections roll around let's all vote for anyone EXCEPT the incumbent. No matter what party the new guy is in let's put him in and throw out all the incumbents. We can get rid of the Kennedys and the Stevens and the rest of that upper class garbage and at the same time do away with "earmarks" and the kind of stuff Duke Cunningham was up to. I guarantee that a bunch of FNG's could not do any worse a job than our exalted elder statesmen have done for the past 40 years. What has party loyalty done for anyone other than the few upper-class types that get richer every year while the rest of us go down the tubes. Yeah, I like that. Let's get real proactive and go after the incumbents. When the newbies get in we can simply tell them that this is a new age. Start screwing around like that last bunch and we'll send you back to Hog Wallow, Arkansas or wherever you call home and get someone else. The first order of business could be a flat tax system. Everyone and I mean everyone would pay 5%, 7%, 10% whatever amount we settle on, no one would be exempt and it would pertain to individuals AND corporations. Also, the churches. If they are a church and they pass the plate and that's their only business then, fine. Leave them alone. However, if they have all these theme parks and villages and publishing companies and all these other for profit operations then jerk their tax exempt status and nail them for taxes too. Just think what could be done if the mutts on capital hill actually cared about the rest of us and what we wanted. Man this would be some election season if we could do something totally outlandish to wake up everyone in this country. Hey, we might even stop getting uinvolved in no-win situations that cost us lives and money for people who hate us anyway. What a deal, 535 members of Congress that (1) aren't in bed with the system and (2) scared to do anything other than what their home district voters demand. Yeah, I know it will never happen but, WOW I'd pay money to see it.

Since Arkin has not published a new blog piece in the last two days, I propose that we should take up a discussion on the newest events in Iraq.

It does appear that the gov't of Maliki and the Iraqi forces have stood up for their own identity and is willing to oppose Iranian influences of al Sadr and the Mehdi Army. The US is in the position to advise, support, and to reinforce the Iraqi Army, mostly protecting the Green Zone and Baghdad from Sadr and his gang.

It appears that Maliki has also given the oppopsition an ultimatum of 72 hours before he releases the dogs of war against Sadr. It also appears that he is fully prepared to oppose enemy forces, as they are going house-to-house in Basra to clear insurgents and retake the criminal rule - that has plagued this region and has become a thorn in Maliki's side.

As SCIRI/Badr and other forces are proving themselves effective to deal with their own internal struggle against al Sadr/Mehdi Army - is it yet safe to say that amended US foreign policy in Iraq has been realized?
Has Iran played their cards ineffectively?

Is anyone keeping track of all these daily reports of deaths besides the Pentagon? I'm hearing 40 deaths in this bombing,52 deaths the next day and yet at the end of the month the Pentagon releases numbers that say everything is getting better and the surge is working. I think I'm going to keep my own tally and see if they jibe with what they are telling us.

Thank you for pointing..., we are pleased to be able to point out the truth!

erice,

The cognitive dissonance that you have referred to has become even more pronounced between the people and the White House, given the antics of the current administration in the White House.

The majority of the American people support justice, and the manner in which they support the troops is by preventing them from having their lives snuffed out or risking injury to themselves and others, in calibrated and unjust political wars!

Remember: The objective is to save lives!

Thank you for pointing..., we are pleased to be able to point out the truth!

erice,

The cognitive dissonance that you have referred to has become even more between the people and the White House, given the antics of the current administration in the White House.

The majority of the American people support justice, and the manner in which they support the troops is by preventing them from having their lives snuffed out or risking injury themselves and others, in calibrated and unjust political wars!

Remember: The objective is to save lives!

when we pay our monthly bills and continue to struggle just survive in the richest country on the face of the planet, you bet numbers matter. what is more astounding is that five plus years later, there is still no end in site. there is, in fact, no end to the wastefull expenditures of america's wealth to benefit the few, and afghanistan and the middle east are just an awfull mess. the reality is, is that this has been a corporate driven war since day one. and the corporations should be made to pay and pay and pay for this act of wanton genocide and avirice. what does the statement that up to 60 iraqis a day are being detained mean? one could go back to WW2 and ask that same question of the nazis. we have become a cruel and self-absorbed country of killers, and when we stop this nonsense we will no longer have to worry about the numbers will we? numbers have little to do with our sense of morality as a nation. it is unconsciable that we allow this midless killing to continue.

Thank you for pointing out what has me worried the most long term - the growing belief among those doing the actual fighting and dieing that those of us back here on the "home front" don't care about them, which I fear could lead to an undermining of the principle of civilian control of the military.

The post-war assessment of the Vietnam War and Morrisso's comments!

Like most Americans did at the end of the Vietnam war (if not before), I made my assessment, asking was it worth it?

Since the USA stopped meddling in Vietnam's internal affairs, the unified Communist nation of Vietnam is doing fine.

When the USA leaves the 38th parallel and stops interferring in the affairs of the Koreans, that nation, I suspect will come together and do just fine. The people of the north and south are already cooperating with each other - in deference to the dictates of the USA War Council.

When the USA leaves Cuba alone, that nation will rise and do just fine!

When the USA stops interferring in the affairs of the Middle-East, the ME will do just fine!

I have stood at the Vietnam Memorial, along with others, to lament the senseless loss of friends whose names were inscribed on those granite walls. I asked myself, and what were the American decisionmakers doing while all of these young men and women who should be here were dying?

Many were golfing, having their 3-martini lunches, boating and fishing, attending gala affairs, being attended by their servants, and in the case of President Nixon and several others, breaking the law themselves, not preserving it!

The once (sacrosanct) offices of the President and Vice President of the United States (now considered The War Room), have wasted the past 7 years engaging in a geopolitical version of the boardgame Parcheesi.

These folks could care less about the pawns who loose their lives. How often have you noticed the President and Vice President yukking it up, while innocent lives are being needlessly destroyed.

They claim that by their actions that they are saving America. The fact is that America has been falling apart: infrastructure, economy, schools, healthcare, housing market and all, since they have been in office!

I was touring Arlington Cemetery on Veteran's Day a few years ago. I was about to enter the 'Amphitheater at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier Site'. President Bush showed up. I was told, there are seats left. I said, no thank you then, and I left!

Natural Born Killers, remember the movie? The difference between the killers on America's streets, and those in government appears to be that the latter were elected - I really cannot see any other difference!

"They are for war, I am for peace" Ps. 120:7.

Mr. Arkin: an comment about the unrest in Basra 3/25? How serious is it? What do your sources inside the military tell you?

President George Walker Bush the Sociopathic Liar could really care less how many American soldiers have died in Iraq as the "Bubble Boy" has the mentality of My Way or the Highway way of thinking. The Iraq War and his conduct as the most inept and brain dead President to have ever served the United States is no different than his complete failure in business as he ran every company he has owned into the ground.

President George Walker Bush should be put in cage once he has served his second term and advertised as the "Former Monkey President" and should have his tongue cut out so no one has to listen to his lies. He could be the main attraction for a major Circus Group and advertise as the Monkey President with an IQ of 2.

I don't see how any one views this war at setting oppressed people free and giving them the same freedoms which U.S. citizens don't have. We are the most controlled nation but we view ourselves as free. We are oppressed because we don't have many freedoms which other countries have and it's a shame that my battle buddies and friends died for this cause. The effect of this whole matter is U.S. is in control of the oil but what is it changing, because oil prices within the U.S. are still high and reaching.

The last sentence contains more distilled wisdom than I have seen from every source, all this week. Another thoughtful piece -- but that's what I always expect from you, Mr. Arkin

==You are starting to repeat yourself - too!==

Astute comment. Also notable by reading the "again" part of the message.

You are starting to repeat yourself - too!

Lets try that again:

==Many of the soldiers died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily.==

The net result is almost certainly a great empowering of Iran-allied religious fundamentalists, which are better known as the US supported Iraqi government. South of Iraq is quickly decending into sharia law, with private enforcement of vicious fundamentalis rules of all kinds, from attacking stores that sell alcohol to killing women who drive. North of Iraq is at war with Turkey and is planning to suceed. The middle of Iraq is chaffing under the American occupation, Al Kaida terrorism and central government supported ethnic cleansing.

This is one sorry result for having lost so many people, having spent all that money and having lost all that soft power. If any of these was even remotely contemplated by our brain-dead leaders during the fraudulent run-up to the war, this adventure would have never happened. Alas, they only saw the candy and flowers...

The long-term potential from the US efforts far outweighs the cost. Many of the soldiers died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily...!

Posted by: Russell Gilger | March 24, 2008

You and other brave service-connected individuals and veterans like you, particularly those who were involved in combat, are to be commended for fighting for a cause that was believed to be noble by some.

However, the majority of the American people, our allies and many other non-aligned nations of the world disagree with your position!

If we truly we care about the lives and the freedoms of innocent people, domestic and abroad, we will never standby again and watch our government involve the armed foruces of the United States of America ever engage in such a travesty again.

Having said that, your actions and the actions of those American service people who believe as you do - those whose actions were predicated upon noble belief are still to be commended for doing what you believed you was noble!

In the future, we will save your lives, the lives of innocent individuals overseas and our allies, whether you folks want us to or not! There are other ways to solve problems, than by killing people!

Arkin writes;

-- In that last calculation are the roots of our real national security crisis: People in uniform, people at the CIA and FBI and NSA, those doing to fighting and making the sacrifices, thinking that weak society itself, with its parsimonious standards about spending and its sentimental regard for human life, has become the enemy. --

Do you really believe 1.5 million men and women in uniform (and other 1/2 million civilians) think that the society they serve is 'the enemy'????

You paint with a VERY BROAD BRUSH, Arkin .. and implicate the ENTIRE defense establishment in your accusation. Shame on you!

...
This begs a question, if half of the US population are mindless drones, do we really have any kind of future in this country?
Posted by: SR | March 24, 2008 02:05 PM
----------------------------------

Until votes are weighed according to education, community service, citizenship status, age, time in country, and criminal record, we will always have sub-prime leadership...across the board.

I'm retired military. I mourn the loss of every soldier who has died in the Iraq war. However, lets put this in perspective. 43,000 people lost their lives in 2006 due to vehicle accidents and more than 200,000 in over five years. The long-term potential from the US efforts far outweighs the cost. Many of the soldiers died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily. It will be a hard road for the Iraqi people. They will have to make some hard decisions but those are their choices as a group. A choice they did not have prior to the war. I ackowledge it may all go to hell when the US leaves but responsibility for those choices will be left to a people empowered to make those decisions.
Posted by: Russell Gilger | March 24, 2008 10:59 AM
-----------------------------------

With your logic, I can freely commit mass murder and argue in court that more die on the highways so its really no big deal.

To say our soldiers "..died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily" is absurd combat romanticism. To say 'long term potential...outweighs the cost' is another fallacy, as one cannot prove either way...thus purely conjecture.

To say there were no choices prior to the conflict is...breathless.

Terrorism is a tactic.
To say we are 'at war with terrorism' is a play of words with no meaning.

You cannot wage war on a tactic, thus there is no definition of victory under such pretense. Its completely open-ended, much as the other political wars on poverty, hunger, drugs, or whatever.

Congress did not declare war, because there is nothing upon which to declare war on.

Terrorism is criminal activity, like the illicit drug trade. Likewise, its best to confront terrorism along law enforcement and border security lines, something this country has failed miserably at.

We will not 'win' in Iraq, because there is no 'winning' where there cannot be a definition of the word.

What do you call it when US citizens are murdered in a conflict that was based on lies, conspiracy and the profit motive for the upper class in this country?

skip meadows

Whenever the Republicans are in office, you call it, THE AMERICAN WAY!

Those fellas' are the definition of 'Natural Born Killers'!.

I am an Independent!

They say sedition is when you advocate the overthrow of the government by force. What do you call it when US citizens are murdered in a conflict that was based on lies, conspiracy and the profit motive for the upper class in this country?

They say sedition is when you advocate the overthrow of the government by force. What do you call it when US citizens are murdered in a conflict that was based on lies, conspiracy and the profit motive for the upper class in this country?

//People in uniform, people at the CIA and FBI and NSA, those doing to fighting and making the sacrifices, thinking that weak society itself, with its parsimonious standards about spending and its sentimental regard for human life, has become the enemy\\ -Arkin

I guess that Arkin is making these well-tranind and better-informed organizations as the root of American evils. They have no problem knowing who the enemies are as they go about their daily jobs - but you sure do. How irresponsible of you!

Did you get booted out of your intelligence analyst position because you are incompetent? One must begin to consider the possibillity at some point. After writing such drivel and seeking supporters to surround yourself with might be free speech, but you are nothing but a disgruntled tool for the neodems and pseudo-libs.

What is evil, Mr. Arkin, is that you turn the situation around and entertain those people who think they know more than these agencies do - by feeding their ignorance with lies and miscalculations.
The Goebels award goes to you - Mr. Arkin
The Goebels award goes to you...

There's a reason why we can't all be presidents ... must be optimistic.

larry

The rest of us would prefer to have someone who is 'realistic' in the White House. That meager 4000 that you condescending referred to, would still be alive to be with their 10,000 other family-members, if we had realistic leaders in office.

Speaking of the dead, if McCain looses, will you folks dig up Raegen's corpse, and sit it in the Oval Office to preside over the nation next. It wouldn't make much of a difference, given what our current optimistic leaders (magic thinkers is more apropos), have been doing!

Skip Meadows:

I'm applauding you loudly.

Could somebody at least come up with the true numbers:KIA, DOW (died of wounds), non combat deaths in country, non combat deaths (sickness, suicide, etc.) out of country?

That four thousand number is only what the Pentagon is FORCED to count and admit. Any death they can shift to another category for whatever reason gets left out.

Just how many deaths are really attributable to OIF?

Where do they come from ? These 4000 dead? No draft, no way to force their service but still, they come. To me, this is the most painful figure that comes out of all the numbers games that are being played. 4000 dead who didn't have to die. They knew there was a chance they would die and they chose to serve anyway. They always do. When LBJ & McNamara lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident as a pretext to bombing. They came to serve. When GWB decided to teach Saddam a lesson he knew they would come. They always do. It is not something that is optional with some Americans. When the call comes, you go. Those who say well, it's been a (5) year war and it's only 4000! I promise you, one of the dead didn't belong to those people's families. I would not trade the life of (1) young American for that whole miserable sandbox and everything in it. However, there are many who would. It's only 4000. I have heard it said that a nation gets the type of government that it deserves. We used to say that about the communists. Why don't those goofy people rise up and throw the communists out? Why do they put up with it? Easier said than done, I guess. In the US, we can never get all those with the right to vote involved. They have just given up on this country and their ability to change anything about it.But, no big deal. It's only 4000. We all know and accept the fact that no one except the rich benefit from the political system we have. No matter which party is in power, it's the rich who proper and the rest of us carry the load in silence. How many rich peoples kids were in that 4000 I wonder? When I was in Viet Nam, I met a true cross-section of America. I met people from every area of the US and every walk of life. Except, I never met anyone who's family was wealthy and I never met a politicians kid. Wonder why ? Maybe, all these morons who sit up on capitol hill in the airconditioned forum are too busy stealing from the rest of us to care. After all, it's just 4000. They were poor kids anyway. Probably wouldn't amount to much. God help us all if we continue to accept this type of royalist trash.but, then; it's only 4000.

FRONTLINE
http://www.pbs.org/frontline/

- This Week: "Bush's War" (270 minutes),
March 24th and 25th at 9pm on PBS (Check local listings)
- Live Discussion: Chat with producer Michael Kirk March. 26, 11am ET

In the Fall of 2001, with the campaign against Al Qaeda and the Taliban in full swing in Afghanistan, veteran producer Michael Kirk walked into FRONTLINE's Boston office with a stunning piece of news: In Washington, he'd learned, a small group of policy insiders had quietly begun planning for what they called "Phase 2" -- the invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

Over the next six years, Kirk and a handful of other FRONTLINE production teams would pursue every major aspect of the Bush administration's "war on terror." On the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, inside Pakistan's lawless tribal areas and the radical mosques of Europe, and behind closed doors in Washington, FRONTLINE has conducted some four hundred interviews on the war, often with administration insiders who reveal the anguished decisions, the bitter policy battles and the almost Shakespearean dramas that played out among the conflict's chief actors: Powell and Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, and Bush.

The end of Mr. Arkin's article looks to lay blame. Even though I would love to see certain people in the White House wearing stripes and their assets turned over to the public treasury, the present Congress of Cowards will never launch an investigation.

It's the people who will end up with the responsibility of cleaning up the war mess, not those who started it. Let's face it, 4456 soldiers dead, thousands of Iraqi's dead, the onset of economic meltdown, security contractors out of control, spiraling fuel costs, terrorism on the rise, increasing Middle East instability, and let's not forget the trampled Constitution - this is a mess of magnificent proportions.

Is a gunpoint democracy in Iraq worth all this? Not in my opinion.

Kill For Peace

Tuli Kupferberg & the FUGS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuli_Kupferberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fugs

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

Near or middle or very far east
Far or near or very middle east

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

If you don't like the people
or the way that they talk

If you don't like their manners
or they way that they walk

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

If you don't kill them
then the Chinese will

If you don't want America
to play second fiddle

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

If you let them live
they might support the Russians

If you let them live
they might love the Russians

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

(spoken) Kill 'em, kill 'em, strafe those gook creeps!

The only gook an
American can trust

Is a gook that's got
his yellow head bust.

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

Kill, kill, it'll feel so good,
like my captain said it should

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

Kill it will give
you a mental ease

kill it will give
you a big release

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

After all these zero WMDs, no link to al Qaida, no threat to US, 4000 US deaths and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, I think Bush can be charged with only 1 small war crime and there's a physical evidence to it. Here's what I read some years ago.
Sometime after the invasion, Saddam was captured. Some US soldier took Saddam's pistol and it was given to Bush. The pistol was a property of Iraq. Taking it constituted looting. Receiving looted property should also be a war crime.
Correct me if I am wrong. If I am right, don't tell Bush because he may cough out the pistol to destroy the evidence.

Jon: "Its too bad well never know how many lives have been saved because if the Iraq War."

You can disappear back to the realm of intangibles now Jon... We won't miss you at all

An elaboration on my earlier comment:

First, identify the real enemy:

"We need to wake up and realize that our real enemies are not in some distant land; they're not people whose names we don't know and whose cultures we don't understand. The enemy is people we know well and people we can identify -- the enemy is the system that sends us to war when it's profitable; the enemies are the CEOs who lay us off from our jobs when its profitable; they're the insurance companies who deny us health care when it's profitable; they're the banks that take away our homes when it's profitable.

Our enemies are not 5,000 miles away. They are right here at home, and if we organize and fight with our sisters and brothers we can stop this war, stop this government, and create a better world." -Michael Prysner, Iraq War Veteran, Winter Soldier Investigation March 2008...

Full Statement: http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8705

Then we need proof of a criminal conspiracy by the Bush adminstration:

To be specific, let's take the Niger documents that falsely asserted that Saddam had agreed to buy 500 tons of yellowcake from the Republic of Niger. Many unanswered questions remain about the origin of the documents. But no one contests that they were forgeries that were based on documents stolen from the Niger Embassy in Rome over New Year's Eve in 2000.

I traveled to Rome to investigate the fabrication and dissemination of the documents, and, as I report in my book, I found that both the documents themselves and the information in them were distributed by right wing elements of Italian intelligence and the neocons in a deliberate manner to make it appear as if there were multiple independent sources corroborating one another, when in fact the only source were the original phony documents.

When the White House wanted to use the documents to build the case for war in an October 2002 speech Bush gave in Cincinnati, the CIA intervened twice to say the information was not reliable.

As I also show in my book, these documents and/or the information in them were discredited by Western authorities(including the CIA and the State Department) on at least fourteen such occasions before Bush's 2003 State of the Union Address

But none of that stopped Bush from citing this information--or, rather, disinformation-- as a casus belli in his famous sixteen words in his 2003 SOTU Address. [ Col. Larry Wilkerson, chief of staff to Colin Powell, told me, if he took something out of Colin Powell's UN speech 47 times, the neocons would put in 48.]

X seems to suggest that all this could have been the result of mere ineptitude. However, I cite, on the record, no fewer than nine former officials in the military and intelligence worlds who characterize the Niger document episode as black propaganda or part of a disinformation campaign that was intentionally done to mislead the American people into supporting a war.

In full: http://www.juancole.com/2008/03/unger-iraq-war-was-conspiracy.html @ Juan Cole's Informed Comment

So... What's America to do? Go along with an illegal war based on treason committed by government officials in the highest offices of the land?

My Dad once told me 'figures don't lie - but liars do figure'

Arkin must be part spider, because he constantly spins, spins, spins...

Im just glad the internet wasnt around for WW2. Over 400,000 US military deaths, and 72 million total loss of life. Its too bad well never know how many lives have been saved because if the Iraq War.

Number "4" quiz.
Which headline worries people the most?
a) Roadside bombs killed 4 US soldiers yesterday.
b) US death toll past 4,000 in Iraq.
c) Regular unleaded gas is approaching $4.00 a gallon.
d) 40 Iraqis were killed across Iraq in car bombings, mortar fire and other attacks yesterday.
e) 400,000 Iraqis were killed in the war.

(c) is probably the correct answer.

What is the point of all the silly traffic
injury and fatality statistics presented by
some posters here. That 4,000 dead American soldiers, who didn't have to die, is a tolerable number?

I will bet everything I have, you've voted for Bush in the last 2 elections. Mindless
drones are his core constituency. Unfortunately, that's about half of the US voting population.

This begs a question, if half of the US population are mindless drones, do we really have any kind of future in this country?

This number is so sad but does not show all the suicides, mental problems, wounded that will suffer for life, and oh so many Iraq women and children that have been killed, wounded, displaced, suffering and mental anquish all caused by George W Bush and his bunch.

Some annoying logic to supersede all the spin:

2006- 2000 US military dead

2007- 3000 US military dead

2008- 4000 US military dead

Can someone please tell me how we are to believe that "US casualties are WAY down" as a result of the "surge", when we are losing the same number of troops each year regardless of all other factors? And in this light, how can we be seen as winning or making progress?

The British tried to do what we are doing, in Iraq, back around WW1. They failed, but we didn't learn from that.

The Russians (then Soviets) tried to fight a guerilla conflict against the Mujhadeen in Afghanistan for over 12 years, resulting in the utter collapse of their economy and the fall of Communism in Russia. But we didn't learn from that either.

In fact, no Imperial power has ever won a Guerrilla conflict, ever. Insurgency is the oldest form of warfare, but we didn't learn that either.

Maybe it's not too late to learn.

Nu, who's the real winner in this so-called war on terror?

Look what one man, Osaba Bin Laden, has turned us into:
-The world's greatest debtor
-cowards ready to embrace any Republican
proto-fascist that promises us safety
-a quasi-police state that practices
torture, spies on hundreds of thousands of
its own citizens and disregards the
Constitution.
-the most feared AND despised country on
Earth
-A waster of 35,000 of young American
lives (dead and permanently wounded)and
500,000+ Iraqi ones. As well as about
$600 billion of taxpayer's money so far on
a war of choice started under false
pretenses.

And what have we done to Bin Laden?

Gurnischt!
(for the Yiddish-challenged, it means "nothing")

All he did was sell one cave and took a mortgage on another. So, I'm asking you again whose mission is accomplished?

The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has released preliminary projections on motor vehicle traffic crash fatalities and injuries during 2005. According to a preliminary report, 43,200 died on the nation's highways in 2005, up from 42,636 in 2004. Injuries dropped from 2.79 million in 2004 to 2.68 million in 2005, a decline of 4.1 percent. Fifty-five percent of passenger vehicle occupants who died in 2005 were unbelted. NHTSA's report projects a fatality rate of 1.46 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (VMT), up from the record low of 1.44 in 2004. NHTSA also found safety belt use is at 82 percent nationwide. The report also projects the eighth straight increase in motorcycle fatalities. In 2005, 4,315 motorcyclists died, a 7.7 percent increase over the 4,008 motorcycle fatalities in 2004.

Let's not lose sight of the fact: every rationale put forward by the Bush admin to fight this war, has been either false or a naked lie.

9/11 link: lie
Al Qaeda link: lie
WMD threat: lie
Democratize the Middle East: false
America, the world superpower: false

So...I agree. the number 4,000 isn't the central fact. Why are we fighting in Iraq? Fighting under such intellectually and morally feeble leadership, how can we expect victory?

Blood in the cherry blossoms, this spring
4,000 soldiers, 1 million civilians
what were we doing for five long years?

What are we doing today?

Blood in the cherry blossoms, this spring
4,000 soldiers, 1 million civilians
what were we doing for five long years?

What are we doing today?

I have been complaining about this privatized war and the fact that the military has not been properly supported since I found out that the Bush Administration was using it as a source for corporate welfare. However, I have opposed the war since Bush first made his Axis of evil speech. Afghanistan was wished upon us, and it is legitimate war. Iraq was not in our national interest and poor policy.
The military will still have a war to fight in Afghanistan, and who know what will develop in the future. But, I will oppose the idea wasting our soldiers lives in optional wars. Soldiers are required to obey any LEGITIMATE order. It is their duty.

The biggest loser in this war has not been the American military or taxpayer -- it has been the country of Iraq. As four American soldiers died today, 61 Iraqis were murdered -- numbers that embody the disproportionate burden they bear.

Lastly, we are not the knight-in shining armor that many military personnel cling to. If so, we would have invaded Sudan or the Congo and brought stability and ended genocide as they occurred. Instead, we are caught in a cycle of invading countries and making the situation worse. Our involvement in derailing the 1st democratic government in the region came back to bite us when Kermit Roosevelt sabotaged Iran in 1956. Iran is now our chief enemy in the world and the biggest winner of the Iraq War. As we spend $5,000 per second, Iran takes southern Iraq.

Larry said: "With 134000 or 164000 troops remaining after 5 years in the war, who dares to say that Bush and Cheney led US into the wrong war?"

Me. If only one soldier died because of Bush's Folly, it would have been bad enough because that is one person who didn't need to die.

"We need to wake up and realize that our real enemies are not in some distant land; they're not people whose names we don't know and whose cultures we don't understand. The enemy is people we know well and people we can identify -- the enemy is the system that sends us to war when it's profitable; the enemies are the CEOs who lay us off from our jobs when its profitable; they're the insurance companies who deny us health care when it's profitable; they're the banks that take away our homes when it's profitable. Our enemies are not 5,000 miles away. They are right here at home, and if we organize and fight with our sisters and brothers we can stop this war, stop this government, and create a better world." -Michael Prysner, Iraq War Veteran, Winter Soldier Investigation March 2008...

Full Statement: http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8705

Larry,

There are 58,256 names on the Vietnam memorial, including one from my family. They lived with honor, but in the end their deaths were without meaning. Think of it this way; the Iraq memorial already has 4000 names and spaces for +54,000 more to add.......

There's a reason why we can't all be presidents or vice presidents because the president or vice president must be someone optimistic to lead the country. He must look at the glass half full instead of seeing it half empty.
4000 deaths look sadly bad to us but Bush and Cheney see 168000-4000=164000. Even if 30,000 wounded are taken into the math, the number still looks good to them i.e. 168000-4000-30000=134000.
With 134000 or 164000 troops remaining after 5 years in the war, who dares to say that Bush and Cheney led US into the wrong war?

==Many of the soldiers died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily.==

The net result is almost certainly a great empowering of Iran-allied religious fundamentalists, which are better known as the US supported Iraqi government. South of Iraq is quickly decending into sharia law, with private enforcement of vicious fundamentalis rules of all kinds, from attacking stores that sell alcohol to killing women who drive. North of Iraq is at war with Turkey and is planning to suceed. The middle of Iraq is chaffing under the American occupation, Al Kaida terrorism and central government supported ethnic cleansing.

This is one sorry result for having lost so many people, having spent all that money and having lost all that soft power. If any of these was even remotely contemplated by our brain-dead leaders during the fraudulent run-up to the war, this adventure would have never happened. Alas, they only saw the candy and flowers...

no country has EVER attacked another to help its people. That rhetoric started in America during the Korean War. Vietnam, another mess, was for the people of So. Vietnam. No, it was part of a political chess game we played with the Soviets. LBJ and the Joint Chiefs could not care less about '...those little,brown Asians", as LBJ called the Vietnamese. The attack on Iraq was for a massive military base in the Middle East, and for Oil. The Oil men who dictate to the Americans have gotten fantastically wealthy from destroying America financially and morally.

4,000 dead is not the whole story. There are tens of thousands wounded - many of which are physically disabled and disfigured for life. There are even more that are suffering from brain injuries. What makes matters worse, they have to fight our own government for the proper care that they deserve. But it will all be worth it if we learn that the world really doesn't give a damn about helping America save the world.

Iraq is apparently yet another waste of time, life and resources. But can someone please role up the numbers for Bosnia?

The ruling party continues to separate America into Democrats and Republicans in order to divide and conquer. in the upcoming election, of the "enlightened or informed" 80%, half will vote Rebublican and half will vote Democrat. The remaining 20% are either indecisive or ignorant, apathetic or busy watching Lost. This 20% is the small target audience that politicians truly aim to influence.

Another idea - why do we think there will be any great shift in "224 days" while we have three Senators running for the office? They all talk of change and reform, but how much change and reform will the new President really effect? Especially one that is a former Senator - where the job description is all about compromise and cutting deals instead of leading? Obama? No executive experience. Clinton? No executive experience. McCain? WAAAAAYYY too much legislative experience - ala Keating 5, and no executive experience.

If they want universal health care and 30 billion dollar mortgage protection schemes, why are they not proposing the legislation now? If it's such a good idea and soooooo popular that the public is demanding it, then by the time it got through the bureaucracy they would be able to sign it into law themselves.

As you all decide the fate of this great Nation, I will stay and wait in Iraq for the outcome - where I have spent 30 months of the last 60. I hope we can break out of our partisan rhetoric and put in a government that will look out for ALL Americans so we can move forward and fix the problems out there.

Sounds like the Advice we give to Iraq.

Break down the Ruling party.

i have, as of this moment, given up on reading the news. Each time after going through the days events, I find myself sick at heart and just have given it up!

I cannot believe any of the garbage that comes through the Internet.

Hillary has my vote. Otherwise, I just do not want to know about the rest of the trash that is going on

The question is not how many have died, but whether their sacrifice has meant anything in a strategic sense for the US. Soldiers give their lives meaning by their actions, only the President can give their deaths meaning. I retired from the military a couple of months ago because I sat on the Joint Staff and saw the mess for myself, and decided I couldnt get up in the morning and put the uniform on anymore. I couldnt be a part of what was going on, no matter how small my part was.

US deaths in Iraq reach 4,000.

This compares with the Iraq death toll ranging from 80,000 (based on media-reported civilian deaths) to 600,000 (estimates based on population-based surveys).

Each life should be equally precious. The 4000 death is a loss to the US, especially of their families. However, the 100,000 plus death is the saddest tragedy to Iraq.

Good article. Our country is founded on the belief that the Dumb Masses can not make appropraite decisions and so we elect representatives who are wise and will examine all the information and make an informed decision. Of course, half the people arent going to like the decisions made, but that doesnt make the decisions wrong. Yes, numbers mean very little.

IF GWB DID SAY;

'NOT MY BLOOD- NOT MY MONEY'

IT WOULD BE JUST ABOUT HIS MENTALLITY!

IF GWB DID SAY;

'NOT MY BLOOD- NOT MY MONEY'

IT WOULD BE JUST ABOUT HIS MENTALLITY!

BINGO!!!!!!!!

CONGRATULATIONS TO RAT FINK GWB, CHENEY AND ROVE. 4000 LIVES DOWN THE DRINK AND THE SWAGGER GETS BIGGER AND BIGGER! GOP! mCcAIN, NOT A CHANCE IN hELL!

its the enviroment, stupids.....earth first....all ways......

I'm retired military. I mourn the loss of every soldier who has died in the Iraq war. However, lets put this in perspective. 43,000 people lost their lives in 2006 due to vehicle accidents and more than 200,000 in over five years. The long-term potential from the US efforts far outweighs the cost. Many of the soldiers died to give an oppressed people the same freedoms we enjoy daily. It will be a hard road for the Iraqi people. They will have to make some hard decisions but those are their choices as a group. A choice they did not have prior to the war. I ackowledge it may all go to hell when the US leaves but responsibility for those choices will be left to a people empowered to make those decisions.

It would appear that America's military junta, under the direction of Commander-in-Chief El Jorge Bushe for the past 7 years, was an abysmal failure.

1). The USA (not the families of the bereaved) can apparently can tolerate the loss of 4,000 humans in a nation of 300M, better than a nation with approximately 25M citizens (California has approximately 38M)! And we all know that Iraq's losses exceeded 4000 dead, exponentially.

2). Obama backed off of his original comment with respent to lives having been wasted, or something to that effect.

No matter how America, Bush or Obama rationalizes the losses of lives on all sides (we are good at that), it does not obviate the fact that the Bushtanistas changed the priorities of this nation over a 7 year period!

Na, na, na, na, na, na, hey, hey, hey - Goodby Mr. Bush!

Bush shrugged his shoulders and said, "Not my blood, not my money."

No... It's about CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY.

http://www.juancole.com/2008/03/unger-iraq-war-was-conspiracy.html