The Fact-Checker, by Michael Dobbs

Clinton has shown herself to be completely amateurish in using this Bosnia trip in her campaign, or else she is utterly deluded in thinking that shots actually were fired at her. Clinton ought to have known that people would pounce on her mischaracterizations, and she ought to have known that the First Lady's trip to a war-torn Bosnia would have a paper and video trail stretching into the sunset.

Clinton really deserves whatever negative political fallout she gets from this one. She told a whopper, and a savvy, experienced politician should have known better. As much as the absurdity of her story, the fact that the whole matter tears away at her self-constructed image as an experienced, vetted political operator hurts her credibility badly.

What is even worse, as long as this story keeps getting play in the press, Obama doesn't even have to look like the bad guy for attacking Clinton over it.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see someone put ads on the air in Pennsylvania along the same basic lines as the YouTube video--images of Clinton in Bosnia with a voice-over of her outlandish speech. At the end, pose a question on screen about whether or not this is the person we want as commander-in-chief. Devastating.

If used to effect by her opponents, this may well be Clinton's Dukakis-in-the-tank or Kerry-windsurfing moment, showing her as goofy, out-of-touch, and, to go beyond Dukakis and Kerry, completely dishonest.

No wonder the latest Gallup poll showed 53% of the American people do not find Hillary Clinton honest and trustworthy. Her Bosnia story is simply a flat-out lie of egregious proportions, and is part of a larger pattern of evasions, exaggerations, distortions, and untruths that has not escaped the public's attention.

Actually, Hillary was using the little Bosnian girl, Chelsea and the President of Bosnia as "human shields" against the sniper fire.

WHAT FUN!!!!

It is unbearably sad as to what extreme the clinton's have shown us that they are willing to go to any extreme to re-occupy the white house. I am a proud democrat and i once held the clinton's in high regard and with the utmost respect. unfortunately this image of the once most loved,trustworthy and highly respected family in politics has painfully been deleted from the minds and hearts of most democrats. very sad indeed.

How to tell if a Clinton is lying or being deceitful?

For Bill Clinton, he starts to point his finger. Straight up! Whenever you find Bill Clinton lying or playing with the truth, most of time he is shaking his finger at the audience.

For Hillary Clinton, she looks around constantly at an 135 degree angle, back-and-forth, while she embellishes the truth. She does this to look into the the crowd to find a face that seems to believe her which reinforces the lie.

This is a very sick person - a pathological liar. Seriously, she should be hospitalized before she does major damage.

Being honest or dishomest is the mantras for the Clintons, I think the American people love them when they are dishonest. and will vote for her. Pre se more than 98% of Americans are dishonest and untrustworthy. So no big deal for the Clintons to play the harp..

Now look into her claims about Irish peace and NAFTA. We. Need. To. Know. The. Truth.

McCain also mislead the public, saying his visit to a Bagdad market was safe, when he was protected troops and helicopters as he spent 10 minutes buying a falafal. It seems to me there is just one candidate left who beleives truth is the best policy.

elronyo - mentally ill because she exaggerated a past experience? That would qualify every angler out there who's ever talked about the big one that got away.

BB

This is literally raising my blood pressure. WHY, WHY, WHY is no one reporting on this other than the Washington Post. Both candidates have been guilty of bending the truth. But these post articles and the YouTube video exposes her sniper fire comments MUCH, MUCH, MORE than stretching the truth. Why is no one else picking up on this?

JamCamp:

Barack HUSSEIN Obama will not be sworn in as President on January 20, 2009.

Keith Hood:

Tim Russert, on "Meet the Press" Sunday, referred to this story too -- so, it's more than just WaPo -- even though I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton in a million years, I do see her point in that severe security measures were in place. She never said "I was shot at" (neither has George W. Bush ever admitted in public that a handgrenade was thrown at him once). There's plenty more to use against Hillary DIANE Clinton than this.

HRC fibbing about experience? There's a juicy story...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Hillary the War Hero........
Oh, since Chelsea went with her at age 15, she is a War Hero too.

Bill Clinton, what a guy! Too dangerous for him to go to the Balkans...."Hmmmm, let me send my Wife and Daughter........."

Hillary the War Hero........
Oh, since Chelsea went with her at age 15, she is a War Hero too.

Bill Clinton, what a guy! Too dangerous for him to go to the Balkans...."Hmmmm, let me send my Wife and Daughter........."

The funniest thing about this wonderful account of heroism by Sen. Clinton is just that, the Mainstream media in America has not jumped on it as they did when Sen. Obama called his grand mother "Typical White Woman". Now this tells us about the Mainstream media in America. Where ever America is today its as a result of the Media, who are so biased to the extent of not telling themselves the truth. Its so shameful that, some of people the in the media still talk about "Intergrity". I really do not know how Americans or Democrats for that matter, would think twice about voting for Sen. Obama, when they have a candidate who makes up such a story, which can be verified. What would she be as a President of the United State or a Democratic Party nominee for the Presidency? Voters should just know now that, there is nothing Sen. Clinton must have said in the course of this Campaign, which is worth holding on, because as we can see she would not mind doing anything to win an Election and when she does win? What happens? I have lost all the respect I had for this woman and I wish the Mainstream Media, should just know that they are the voice of the Americans and they should start asking questions about Sen. Clintons intergrity.... She is just a blatant LIAR.

You pepole are deranged. You jump all over the best president this country has had in a long time, and a woman who has worked hard for years for the benefit of working people, just to justify your support of a man who has done absolutely nothing. Tell us what he has done, don't nitpick minor campaign speeches. God!

It's truly sad we've reached the point where even the Washington Post can't publish a fact check column without its devolving into a jerkoff's opinion column.
Jeez.

She can't win. If it was really so dangerous that Bill couldn't go as she claims, why the Hell did she take Chelsea?

Wouldn't that be throwing her daughter under the bus?

Actually, we already know Hillary is willing to throw Chelsea under a bus, because she continually says nice things about John McCain, a man who joked at a 1998 GOP fundraiser:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father and Hillary Clinton is her mother."

No normal mother would ever forgive a man who spoke about her daughter that way.

So why does Hillary forgive McCain? Because she isn't going to let a thing like defending her daughter get in the way of her anointed succession to the Throne of America.

Thank you for doing this research into Senator Clinton's claims. I am thinking that she felt at liberty making such false statements because she thought her attorneys would be able to stall the release of documents until after she had obtained the nomination.

Didn't the US involvement in Viet Nam start after claims of an attack that never happened? Didn't the Iraq war start over claims of WMD's and ties to Bin Laden that didn't exist?

If anything convinces me that the Clintons should not be back in the White House this clinches it. That is all America needs is another Administration that creates war stories for their own personal political objectives.

This embellished account of the dangers are just a sad example of why the American people want change. We have had so many lies during the Bush administration that we have grown cynical and stayed home from the polls.

I give Senator Obama high marks for avoiding the low road in this campaign. He has not made the Bill Clinton legacy a talking point of the campaign even though most Democrats blame Bill for Al Gore's struggles to win the election against George Bush.

If Hillary gets the nomination, her own words will be used to paint her as untrustworthy and Bill's personal behavior will be back on front pages again.

The super delegates have go to be considering that this dynasty is not good for the future of the party. Democrats who want to run for open seats in the Senate have an opportunity to select a candidate who will bring new voters to the polls.

Obama supporters are not anti-Hillary as much as they are realistic about the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton domination of politics. We can not change Washington until we embrace a new generation of leadership.

With the Obama-McCain race, we have no Bush or Clinton on the ticket. That is the change we need so that Americans can hope for different thinkers at all levels of the government.

Bush loyalists like Al Gonzales represent eight years of failure. Clinton loyalists like Bill Richardson believe that they can pledge allegiance to the United States of America rather than to a political family. His example is the kind of change we need.

Ronald Reagan also made up stories about being under fire but he had an excuse: Alzheimers. What's her excuse?

I'm glad, however, that Hillary has finally shed some light on her actual foreign policy experience as first lady:

1. Kissing eight year old Bosnian girls
2. Laughing at Sinbad's jokes
3. Singing "All I Wanna Do" with Sheryl Crow.

Sounds like a pretty extensive resume to me...

I think this is an intentional sucker punch..the Clinton campaign knows it's a fabrication and is just daring media to show the clip over and over of her on an "important mission." It doesn't matter about ethics from where these folks are coming from..it's become a hazing ritual to be tough enough to stand up there and spin with the best of them..I lie, you lie..Detante!

Where are the Clinton defenders? Not even her paid bloggers can extract her from this self-inflicted blunder.

If one does not mischaracterize Sen Clinton's statements, the only one that appears contradicted is the "run to the cars" one. I expect we'll discover that statement referred to an event other than the one depicted in that news footage. As for the others:

"evasive maneuver" - stipulated by all parties, even if it was not a "corkscrew landing", a claim she never made.

"under sniper fire" - if her security told her there was a threat of sniper fire, then she is perfectly truthful. She never claimed to witness actual firing.

"no greeting ceremony" - shaking a few hands and giving a hug does not constitute a "greeting ceremony". As a matter of fact, the news report includes footage of an indoor meeting with a group. Could that meeting have been moved indoors for security purposes? Perhaps. Does Dobbs find out before he calls a US Senator a liar? Of course not. It IS Sen Clinton, after all.

=========
Atkisson, from the contemporaneous news report: "First wife of a president to visit troops in a hostile zone"

A "hostile zone"? But isn't this whole "fact check" and accusation of lying (4 "pinnocchios") based on it not being a "hostile zone"? Oh, who cares, this is fun, right, Michael? I mean, you get cited in right wing commercials. A proud moment, I'm sure.

To JakeD, who simply wrote: "Barack HUSSEIN Obama will not be sworn in as President on January 20, 2009."

If your only critique of Barack Obama is that his given name is "Hussein," then you reveal much about yourself. Specifically, it's evident that you have little going for you right now, if ever. Your childish approach to politics probably demonstrates the need for you to act out from being teased as a child - maybe for your name. I mean, "JakeD"....hmmm, hahaha, now I'm guessing what the "D" stands for. So sad. You are one more reason to raise awareness about the effects of child abuse.

To JakeD, who simply wrote: "Barack HUSSEIN Obama will not be sworn in as President on January 20, 2009."

If your only critique of Barack Obama is that his given name is "Hussein," then you reveal much about yourself. Specifically, it's evident that you have little going for you right now, if ever. Your childish approach to politics probably demonstrates the need for you to act out from being teased as a child - maybe for your name. I mean, "JakeD"....hmmm, hahaha, now I'm guessing what the "D" stands for. So sad. You are one more reason to raise awareness about the effects of child abuse.

quote "i never had sexual relations with that woman" bill clinton

quote " we landed in tuzla bosnia under sniper fire. hillary clinton

quote "we have had more than we can stomach of these two pathalogical liars" the american public

The usual Clinton apologists (svreader, iowatreasures, ChristianLeft, thinker, AsperGirl, etc.) are not touching this one with a ten-foot pole; the overwhelming evidence to the contrary will make them look almost as foolish as Clinton spinning this lie out of her mouth in the first place!

The "D" stands for my last name: Dort. By all means, please make fun of it all you want -- I am not making fun of Obama's name nor is it a critique at all -- in fact, I think it means "handsome". Next question?

Atkisson, from the CBS report: "She'll fly to outpost camps in Bosnia to visit the troops"

If it turns ot the First Lady was told to run to her car at one of the outpost camps, will Mr Dobbs retract his 4 pinnocchios and publicly apologize?

reminds me of HRC's bogus claim on 9/12/2001 that Chelsea had been jogging in Battery Park on the 11th, just blocks from the Twin Towers attack and destruction.

On the 13th, Chelsea was on 1010 WINS radio in NYC telling them that she'd been on the upper east side all morning, miles from the WTC.

Hillary is an opportunistic and/or pathological liar. She must not be elected.

By the way, does anyone think a civilian passenger can tell whether an evasive landing is a corkscrew or not? Does Mr Dobbs know that someone with the First Lady at the time didn't imply or mischaracterize the landing as a "corkscrew" and plant that entirely trivial, inconsequential, meaningless misunderstanding so that a hack like Mr Dobbs could make a mountain out of nothing 12 years later? I don't think so.

>

I guess it depends on what your definition of IS, is.

Which pair of power-mad politicians have brought us to distrust them so?

As a person who voted for Bill Clinton twice, I am continually disappointed by the lengths to which they are willing to stoop to ensure their return to the White House. There are things that people shouldn't even have to lie about, but here we have it. Even in instances where she can and should take the high road, she surrounds herself with surrogates who can't or won't. Now we have this whopper--so easily verifiable. Don't even get me started on her throwing a member of her own party under the bus to prop up a man who said such hateful and cruel things about her own child.

I don't know what is wrong with the people who think it is ok that politicians like Hillary Clinton lie to the country. We pay huge portions of our income in taxes and these politicians spend the money. I would think it would be important that the people spending our taxes are honest. None of us would accept this from anyone else. What is wrong with you people? The truth matters and lie cost you your hard earned money.

Are you SURE that the First Lady was never told to "run to the cars"?

Why am I not surprised to see that Hillary has lied again? She lies about the Michigan and Florida primaries. She could have removed her name from the Michigan ballot as did the other legitimate candidates, but she knew that she would appear to "win" if no one else was on the ballot. She said at the time of the Iowa votes that the primaries in Michigan and Florida would not count. She is trying every way she can to bend or change the rules to her advantage. So it is no surprise to see that, once again, she is caught in a lie. She says she is now opposed to NAFTA although in her senate campaign she told about how good it was working. She will do anything, say anything to get nominated, even destroy the Democratic party.

The Clintons have repeatedly proven themselves to be as tenacious as they come. I felt that such tenacity was justified in the effort to repudiate attempts by Ken Starr and the right-wing smear machine to do-in Clinton's second term, but I now think that I have given them both too much credit.

Hillary's silly over-exaggeration sounds like Al Gore's alleged invention of the internet: it was a stupid and pointless playground-style exaggeration when a frank account of her actual foreign policy experience (doubtless considerable) would have been more than sufficient.

I and many others I know had been on the fence until these examples of truth-stretching and gutter politics started to emerge from Hillary and her advisors. The Clintons need to retire these tired tactics and stick to business. At least then we will have had an honest debate.

"Sometimes, in politics, it is the trivial mistakes rather than the major policy blunders that can trip you up"?

Mistake? Getting caught in a lie was Hillary's mistake. She certainly didn't spin this tale by accident. It's part of a determined campaign to win the presidency by any means necessary. Get ready for more.

JakeD posts:

Are you SURE that the First Lady was never told to "run to the cars"?
__________________________________________
It's not our responsibility to prove that "they" didn't tell her (proving a negative), despite the fact that no one has stepped up and backed up the statement, while multiple people have disputed the whole claim; it's the responsibility of people like you to prove that someone did.

But you already knew that, right, Jake? The best you can do, as usual, is toss off one liners. BTW, How come you designated her as "the First Lady" instead of your usual moronic Hillary DIANE Clinton?

in one video she says "we were told to run to the cars" but the first speech she gave that day says that they DID "run to the cars with their heads down" and she giggled while saying it

so I guess she 'misspoke' more than once?

or its a Senior Moment?

or she's a flat out liar and has been all this time.

Are you SURE that the First Lady was never told to "run to the cars"?

Posted by: JakeD

====================

Of course he is. Mr Dobbs would never publicly accuse a US Senator of lying if he were not absolutely sure, would he?

Hilary lies like this all the time. I'd never in a million years vote for a Clinton. I'd vote for Obama though.

I don't understand how any Democrat could back this pair (the Clintons.) How duplicitous and intellectually dishonest can one be?

You guys need to give Hillary a break. While she may not have been dodging incomign sniper fire, she and Sinbad were constantly faced with the dire question of "are we going to eat here, OR AT THE NEXT PLACE??"

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!! FOR HILLARY!!!

Possibly Hillary is simply so much out of touch with reality in the stresses of her campaign that she can imagine herself actually having done the things she brags about now.

But this doesn't inspire confidence in a supplicant for Commander-in-Chief.

Way to lie to the American people, Hillary!

http://think.mtv.com/044FDFFFF0098A06900080098DD83/User/Blog/BlogPostDetail.aspx

I (again) urge the Fact-Checker to check who REALLY contacted the Canadian embassy over NAFTA.

Here in Canada, all the media has reported either that BOTH Obama and Clinton's campaigns did, or that it was actually Clinton's campaign, and the story got skewed in the telling.

For example:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/03/05/4920341-cp.html

Embassy tight-lipped on whether NAFTA leak probe covers Wilson
By THE CANADIAN PRESS

'The CTV story reportedly orginated from (Canadian Prime Minister Stephen) Harper's chief of staff Ian Brodie, who told reporters in Ottawa that Hillary Clinton's campaign assured Canadian officials they need not worry about her NAFTA rhetoric.

There's been no explanation for why the focus shifted to Obama in the CTV report that went to air.'

JK5432:

It's actually NONE of our responsibility to PROVE anything on a blog -- but you already knew that too, right -- also, I designated her as "the First Lady" because that's what she was during this particular episode. Next question?

Gion:

Do you have a link to the first speech she gave that says that they DID "run to the cars with their heads down"? I've only heard it as "we were told". Thanks in advance.

Clinton the candidate is lying and exaggerating about her experience to be commander in chief. These are not anyone else's words. These are her words, her recollections, her fabrications.

As is typical with this column, one is left wondering what "fact" is being "checked" exactly. Mr Dobbs has a tendency to quote a candidate, then characterize or interpret the quote, then "fact check" his characterization. This method undermines the credibility and utility of the column.

Jeanie and thecrisis:

No one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied".

so in other words, clinton advocates and supporters are saying it's okay to be a liar - well, look at where we are in enabling another liar - 5 years later and 4000 lost..

I'm amazed you've characterized this as a "mistake".

The timeline of events clearly show it was a 100% premeditated lie..

Lets review..

Sinbad's comments to the Washington Post on March 10th, calling into question Hillary's earlier accounts of the plane trip, created a ruckus as soon as they were published, and news of them spread throughout the news media and blogoshere almost immediately.

The Clinton campaign HAD to be aware of the new-found-doubt of Hillary's version of events, that was raised by the Sinbad story

From this point, THEY HAD SEVEN DAYS before Hillary Clinton's March 17th speech at George Washington University to look into the records of the flight and the landing ceremonies, both their own and those of news reports, AND CORRECT Clinton's highly erroneous earlier accounts.

But what did they do? Instead, they choose to not only stick with her original story, but actually ramped up its details. This decision was nothing less than an act of 100% premeditaed fraud.

This wasn't a mistake at all.

100 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON

"Mr Dobbs has a tendency to quote a candidate, then characterize or interpret the quote, then "fact check" his characterization"
=====================
For example:
Sen Clinton claims she was told there were threats in Bosnia, a "hostile zone", and security measures, including an evasive landing and limited outdoor exposure, were being taken in response.

Mr Dobbs adds his characterization that Sen Clinton claims to have been in personal danger.

Mr Dobbs builds a case for there not being danger to the Senator at that landing.

On the weight of his "evidence", Dobbs calls Sen Clinton a liar in front of God and everyone.

Voila! Journalism!

liar, liar and Steve:

No one is saying that it's O.K. to lie -- what I am saying, at least, is that no one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied". Do you KNOW that she was not told to "run for the cars" on that trip?

Mr Dobbs and I have something in common. Neither of us knows what Sen Clinton was told regarding threats on that trip nor what security measures were being taken. We part ways when he takes an utterly inconsequential anecdote, exaggerates and mischaracterizes it, "proves" it may be false and accuses her of lying. I'm just not that reckless.

Then, the best part, he links a right wing hit video, puffs up his chest, and types:
"Sometimes, in politics, it is the trivial mistakes rather than the major policy blunders that can trip you up."

What a tool.

Is that you, zuckermand?

How in the world could anyone even dream of her being near the "football"? It takes a stable mind in this day and age and it's bad enough we as Americans are in a desperate way with our economy, first NAFTA,then IRELAND,now BOSNIA. Are there any truths with the Clintons? Mental hospitals have saner people than this institutionalized.

How in the world could anyone even dream of her being near the "football"? It takes a stable mind in this day and age and it's bad enough we as Americans are in a desperate way with our economy, first NAFTA,then IRELAND,now BOSNIA. Are there any truths with the Clintons? Mental hospitals have saner people than this institutionalized.

When you have NO experience in foreign affairs just say nothing! Obama was in the middle of any war zone area WHEN? OH...AS IN NEVER.

Yes, it is.

What's sad is that a genuinely honest person - Al Gore - got skewered for being dishonest; while a serial liar and hypocrite - Hillary - is getting a free pass. Up is down, black is white, the Clintons are good for America. Well, I don't believe it and neither should anyone with a soul or conscience.

doug/seattle:

You've NEVER misspoken about the exit from a plane or other mode of transportation?

As Ms Attkisson put it in the contemporaneous news report:
"First wife of a president in recent history to visit troops in a hostile zone."

I believe this is the point, the rest is noise. Why is the "Fact Checker" at the Washington Post a noise maker?

The GOP is gonna LOVE this in October. They don't even have to make their own Switboat ads. Hillary has made the ads for them.

Wow. She is toast.

I hope the Superdelegates are paying attention. She's caught redhanded in a total lie, and ends up a mockery. Sort of like Dukakis in the tank. She is toast.

No wonder why Bill loves her so much...
Birds of a feather fly together...maybe the med's are clouding the 3AM experience....

One of the things Obama emphasizes often is the idea of getting away from the lies by Politicians who we know all too well will do ANYTHING to get elected, or to get backing for their unpopular wars. It is interesting that the Clinton campaign adviser, Harold Ickes, is the son of Harold Ickes senior, who as sec. of the interior under FDR, conspired with General Marshall and FDR to bait the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor. By not sharing their vast amount of intelligence about this with Commanders in Pearl, they were responsible for the thousands of deaths that resulted. However, they got what they wanted. Us in the war. Lies seem to be the easiest way to get what you want in a democracy. 911....Hhmmmmm

Who cares?!?! She took so many trips she probably forgot. How many trips did she take?? She already said that she mispoke.

I was the Public Affairs Officer captain, US Army) for the 3/321st Infantry (Airborne) from Vicenza, Italy that was deployed to Bosnia during the time that President Clinton and the first lady visited. I was intimately involved with planning and executing their visit to the soldiers stationed there. I was even to appear with the president on a radio call-in show, but that was cancelled since they were almost three hours late in arriving.

I remember the occasion very well. There were unconfirmed reports of snipers in the area who had supposedly arrived from Afghanistan, but there had been NO reported sniper activity in the vicinity of Tuzla Airbase. If there had been I would have known about it, for I was on the staff of the 3/321st Infantry battalion commander, Lt. Col. Michael Scaparotti, who was charged with security at Tuzla Airbase.

The president's plane, with the first lady, arrived without incident except for running late on what was really a political trip being billed as a "foreign affairs" trip).

The presidents media people arrived at least a week ahead of the planned event and made it clear this was a public relations event. The entire visit, intended to appear spontaneous, was entirely scripted (staged) from beginning to end, with no possibility of anything occurring that would jeopardize the president and first lady's political image.

I repeat ... there was NO sniper fire, and not a credible threat of sniper activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the
presidents' arrival.

I was there.

The GOP is gonna LOVE this in October. They don't even have to make their own Swiftboat ads. Hillary has made the ads for them.

They are going to compare her fake dangerous trips to McCain's real dangers and she'll be a laughing stock.

This is her Dukakis in the tank moment. She is toast.

Get real Hillary!

Get real Hillary!

Sadly, this is one in a string of recently revealed lies. Finally, the media is beginning to pay attention. Hillary's claim of leading the effort to enact the Children's Health Program (S-CHIP) is also a gross exageration:

The Globe reported that Kennedy patterned the S-CHIP plan after a Massachusetts program that started in 1996. Kennedy met with two Bay State health-care advocates, Dr. Barry Zuckerman of Boston Medical Center and John McDonough, then a Democratic state legislator.

McDonough said Kennedy developed the national S-CHIP concept after that meeting.

"I don't recall any signs of Mrs. Clinton's engagement," said McDonough, who has not endorsed a presidential candidate. "I'm sure she was behind the scenes, engaged in lobbying, but it is demonstrably not the case" that she was a driving force behind the bill.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/031608b.html

Buh Bye, Hillary. I certainly hope you realize what a terrible role model you are for the young women of the world, with your lies, deception, embelleshment, and dirty politics.

You are a disgrace.

Misspoke on Bosnia
Misvoted on the iraq war

Lied on Bosnia
Lied on Ireland
Two countries down 78 to go

"I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia," she said, in remarks that aides described Monday as not being part of her prepared speech. "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

Misspoke? Misspoke?!! This is more than a slip of the tongue!

Hillary made a mistake, she thought she was in Bosnia surrounded by sniper fire but actually she was in OBAMALAND. So at least you could excuse her.

You know in OBAMALAND, trash and manure are plentiful that you are always in danger. There are too many lunatics and crackpots . You can get killed not by bullets or grenades but by vile and dirt spewing from the mouths of of those fanatics.

Perhaps she misspoke:

From "Head of State"
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-misspoke.html

"Monday, March 24, 2008
I Misspoke

It was a treacherous night landing. Ice had formed on both of our wings, and as I looked out the port window, I could see it cracking, flying off into the night sky with each near barrel roll of our C-50, highlighted by the flares shooting past on either side of the cabin, turning them into falling prisms of wildly careening light.

As the cabin lurched back and forth and the sounds of rocket fire percussed the urgent, faltering rhythm of our right engine, I unfastened my seat belt, and, finding my center of gravity, rose from my seat, moving past aides frozen still in their seats, arms locked like girders against their arm rests in terror, and walked up the center aisle to the pilot's cabin.

"How long to Kosovo"? I shouted over the screaming whine of the altimeter's alarm, marking our steep descent. The pilot turned, looked at me in shocked recognition--"How...how did you make it up here? No one has ever walked up here in these conditions before! How..."

"Never mind that!" I barked, with what I hoped was not too much stern forcefulness, with sufficient steel and empathy combined into a firm imperturbability. "Check the master FMC! Is it working or has it failed?"

The pilot, paused, as if in amazement at my readiness , and then himself awakening to crisis, looked to the Control Display Unit . "It's down! It's down!" he shouted. A bead of sweat began to form on his brow.

I knew what I had to do. "Get out of there!" I commanded, and pulled him from the seat, where he crumbled to a fetal position on the floor behind me. Stepping over him, I took the chair behind the console.

"Check the Central Maintenance Computers and activate the NAV RAD for alternate radio tuning capability!" I shouted to the co-pilot. He, too, had broken down in tears, his head buried in his hands. I looked to his ID on the console. Another newbie.

Well, this was another one where I would have to go it alone.

Quickly, I tore the scarf from my neck and fashioned it into a crude lasso that could be used for EFIS/EICIS control. Catching the lever with my right hand, I activated the cabin loudspeaker with my left. I knew that they had likely been gulled by the earlier soft patter of the pilot. "Brace yourself! Get ready! These aren't just words!" Then I pulled the lever back hard, sending us rocketing towards the runway.

"You'll never make it!" I knew that voice, and turned. Richardson! How did he trundle up to the cabin? "Out of here, Judas! And take that quivering beard with you!"

I could feel bolts straining against Pennsylvania steel as I pushed the '50 down, down, down to the ground below us. Suddenly, an explosion punctuated the sky--Hand held rocket fire at 3' o'clock!

I quickly performed the evasive maneuvers that I had learned for so long, and so well. My face became angry, then sad, then gentle, then intensely serious, then was finally rocked by a powerful squealing, an unnatural burst of laughter. That did it! The rocket exploded harmlessly behind us.

Now. Now it was time to take the stick and bring this shaking, careening flight, parts straining against themselves until nearly ready to burst, down to the ground. I put my arms to the twin arms of the FO-AP, set the APC, and with all of the strength remaining in me, began to push the levers down. Straining, I pushed harder. And harder. I could see the runway rising before us in the glare shield. I would have to find the remaining strength to bring it down.

Finally, as if a burst of superhuman might had been somehow delegated to me, I pushed the levers into locked position. I could hear Penn in the cabin shouting "We're landing...We're going down!" as I felt the rough shock of the landing gear snapping into place.

Sparks flew as we hit the runway, bullets ricocheting off of the cabin, one wheel touching pavement. I looked straight through the windshield--the militia, arms at the ready stood at the runway's end. The last obstacle.

I turned the craft hard, sending it hurtling sideways across the pavement. It swept the militia away in a single screaming motion that combined with the screaming that arose from the cabin, as we continued to hurtle towards the small, makeshift terminal, where the dignitaries, negotiators, and heads of state awaited for my arrival.

I did not close my eyes. I did not let go of the wheel. I watched--as we ground to a halt just before the doors of the terminal.

I looked fore, at the dignitaries protecting themselves from the sniper fire that raged around them. I looked aft, at the passengers, shaken but safe.

We had arrived. All was good.

Just a moment...

Due to the discovery of a video of the above described occasion, I would like to make few small corrections. The flight was in fact actually a regularly scheduled Continental Airlines flight that was actually flown by the pilot and co-pilot--although the pilot did have a cold, and during the flight, I did at several times give serious attention to our flight conditions (notes indicate that I found it "a bit bumpy") I would also note that the dinner, Salmon with Creamed Potatoes, was undercooked, and was served with a Riesling that was unusually dry. It is also true that we were met not by a militia but by a girl's youth soccer team. However, it was necessary for me to dodge a soccer ball as team members demonstrated their often aggressive skills. No other shots were fired.

In short: I misspoke."

Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-misspoke.html

The clarity with which she spoke about the "facts", makes it obvious she was not misspeaking or even to use a Bushism "misremembering". She was flat out lying to pad her "national security credentials."

Why are some people spewing hatred on Obama here? Did Obama force HRC to make up "national security credential" stories?

I was walking down the street minding my own business when I was attacked by a huge, wild, Bengal tiger. Thinking quickly, I reached into my purse, took out my cell phone and dialed 911. While waiting for help I grabbed the tiger''s head, squeezed his mouth shut, and, before he could react I slapped him a few times. And just as he showed his fangs and tried to bite me . . . Oh Oh, I misspoke. It was really my daughter''s one-month old kitten, she wanted to play with a piece of yarn I had. But it did look vicious.

I have lived in United States for 10 years, an I was a child of a civil war in Bosnia, I re-call no sniper fire in Tuzla during March of 96. The fighting have ended in late 95, and besides TUZLA was controled under Bosnian-Muslim Forces almost the whole war...

Hillary once told a group of people that her mother had named her after the famous adventurer, Sir Edmund Hillary - the Mount Everest climber. (It was during a trip to Nepal that she made this comment)

She subsequently repeated the story, and it even made it into Bill's autobiography!

Problem is, Sir Edmund wasn't famous or even known by ANYONE when Hillary Clinton was born... she just clean made it up!

Why?

It really is hard to tell why she does this. Why make up something like that, just to impress people?

Why exaggerate the Bosnia thing? The news report already called it "groundbreaking" that she was in "hostile" territory... why embellish?

I suspect she just can't help herself. She has been caught out time and time again with these lies... more will soon follow.

You can read the made up name story here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hillary.asp

Slate has a more recent article on the name invention here:

http://www.slate.com/id/2182065/

Why all the lies Hillary? Even about your own name?

It's just plain weird...

This just in- Kwame Kilpatrick, having been indicted for a felony count of perjury for lying about having an affair with an aide, has now said that he mis-spoke himself. Word is that charges will be dropped.( why not ? It works for the white woman). Maybe Hillary mis-spoke herself in one of those big blue states with a low percentage of blacks and no caucus. That would make it all right.

"I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left, Now that's my memory of it.."

Latest version! "I took her stuff and left." An 8-year-old? These are Hillary's credentials to be Commander-in-Chief? Her International Experience? "I took her stuff and left."

"I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left, Now that's my memory of it.."

Latest version! "I took her stuff and left." An 8-year-old? These are Hillary's credentials to be Commander-in-Chief? Her International Experience? "I took her stuff and left."

The Clinton family motto?

"I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left, Now that's my memory of it..."

That's her account AFTER seeing the video yesterday and that isn't even accurate.

Her original claim was that she visited a war zone that was too dangerous for the President yet the war had been over for 3 months and the President had visited 2 or 3 months before her visit.

How much "experience" does this visit contribute to handling foreign policy? Aren't privates in the US marines more experienced in this area? The CBS report said that in the 70 minutes of meetings using an interpreter (35 minutes of actual dialogue), she listened to community leaders talk about the hardships of war - no foreign policy discussion.

The war had been over for three months and there were no major foreign policy issues to discuss or decide. Pat Nixon visited Saigon and Barbara Bush visited Desert Storm so this wasn't even that unique for a First Lady. Therefore, if this trip stands out as evidence of her foreign policy experience, what does that say about her foreign policy experience overall in light of her other exaggerations on Macedonia, Ireland and the suspect Rwanda story?

Using the examples she has provided, she's basically telling us that she doesn't have a lot of foreign policy experience by getting caught grossly exaggerating her role while telling voters that she has this experience. Some pundits are passing this off as a trivial exaggeration. I'm not convinced.

Not convinced this improves Hillary's cred in fielding a 3am phone call.

Wasn't that Billary who planted that flag on Iwo Jima?

Billary did a pretty good job in Korea when she single handedly took Pork Chop Hill she's a hero's hero!

Now lets see, which is worst a liar or man who attends a church with a minister we don't like? Like the Clintonista always say, "words do matter." Even more so when they are your own words and not those of your surrogates. Whether or not it is "fish story" this is one in a long line of "fish stories" she has been caught in. Let's see (1) SHE said she was instrumental in getting the health program SChip passed, the media and the senators who worked for passage of the bill provided proof she was not; (2) SHE said she was involved in negotiating peace in Ireland, the Irish leaders said she was not; (3)SHE said was a part of an important event in Bosnia that the press footage proved actually happened a month before she arrived; (4) SHE said she was involved in major policy decisions as first lady, when the records prove she did not have the security clearance to allow her be involved at this level. Fish Stories, Lies, Embellishments, Half-truths, Mispoken words. They all amount to the same thing. Another Clinton rewriting reality to suit them.

The real truth is that John Mc Cain is a REAL war hero and the GOP will play Hillary's Bosnia fantasy over and over again Mc Cain will beat her in a general election! Hillary is UNELECTABLE and if the MEDIA would STOP embellishing her chances to win the Democratic NOMINATION the public would know the truth that she is behind badly and has lost the Democratic Nomination!

This incident confirms what most do not like about her -- she lacks integrity and is not trustworthy.

"As Ms Attkisson put it in the contemporaneous news report:
"First wife of a president in recent history to visit troops in a hostile zone."

I believe this is the point, the rest is noise. Why is the "Fact Checker" at the Washington Post a noise maker?"

Oh please, give us a break, are you that blind or just that stupid? Once again we see that Dillary, just like her husband will unabashedly lie her azz off to get what she wants. The only "hostile zone" she ever encountered while Bill was in office was their White House bedroom.

For me as a German, this is, of course mindful of Baron von Münchhausen and his fantastic adventures, see one:

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/senator-clinton-meet-the-baron-baron-von-munchhausen-the-senator/

I'm afraid that this misstatement/embellishment of the arrival to a war-zone is not as serious as some of the statements by Obama on Rezko and Wright:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/432197,CST-NWS-obama18.article

Which statement about Rezko are we to believe? Did he really not hear any of the controversial statements by Wright?

People seem to think Hillary lied about her adventure in Bosnia . The fact that video tape supports the fact that in every particuliar her words are in direct contradiction to what we see on the tape. For those who believe thier lying eyes this might call into guestion most of what see claims to have done in secret during her time in the White House.

There is more innocent interpretation however. Hillary may just be talking "Clintonese" some examples

"I never had sex with that women"

" That all depends on what is is"

and Hillays lenthy desciption about her Bosnia adventure. In Clintonnese words mean exactly what the Clintons say no more no less.

The question is do we want a president who speaks a fluent Clinton or one who speaks English .Fact Checker fine job

White house? she belongs in the nut house! Her next whopper will be that she stayed at the Hanoi Hilton with Mccain! Why do you liberals support this vile person?

Hey I have one for all of you:

CLINTON: I am ready to LIE on day one!

One day, Hillary Clinton is going to again Lie in the public square, and her lies are going to ignite her combustible pants suit by the cuffs. Pants on Fire! What a Concept!

This was an outright lie, plain and simple. The big picture is starting to unfold on why she won't release her 2007 tax returns, and why she is ducking from a April 19th debate. The complexity of the questions that she will be asked to answer are mounting...

Great...another bold-face liar in politics. SHAME on Hillary. Pathological liar (or "congenital" liar as William Safire once put it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB97_FMYVC4

Here are some news reports from 1996

"She did visit two outposts outside of the base camp in Tuzla without the
celebrities there
for the USO tour.
Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military
zone by Black
Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank
you" to U.S.
troops.
...
But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S.
troops helping to
uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with
comedian Sinbad
and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.
...
But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the
U.S. base in
Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in
January, did not see
as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded
her as she
walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost
nestles between two
tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.
Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla
- but officials
said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.
Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996

Another report:

THE First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's
troops at their
fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping
work was
"extraordinary to behold".
Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised
infantry outfit and a
combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out
villages and
farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before
last December's
Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked
Bosnian
minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by
sandbags, she flew
on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl
Crow and
comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in
such a
short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.
Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996

And she did spend some time in the cockpit ;-)

So it was probably no accident that the C-17 pilot was a woman, Capt. Cheryl
Beineke of
Ohio. She is among just four female C-17 pilots out of about 100 in the Air
Force.
"I'm loving every minute of this," the pilot said after Mrs. Clinton spent
several minutes in
the cockpit.
Source - Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, AP International, March 25, 1996"

She misspoke huh? That's funny. I could have sworn she and her campaign blasted Sinbad a couple weeks ago for making fun of her claim that they were under sniper fire. He said the most dangerous thing they had to deal with was where to eat. HRC called a press conference to counter that assertion and brought in people to stake "irrefutably" that they had to "run for cover."

That is quite some "misstatement!" Ready on day one???

It seems Bills pinnochio syndrome has worn off on Hillary. They are truly the same when it comes to doing or saying whatever it takes to slide on by to make yourself look better. Not presidential at all.

Our children are dying in Iraq at the will of an administration that refuses to be truthful with the American public.

HRC clearly promises more of the same. She will say whatever is necessary to ensure that her goals are met.

We don't need this woman leading this country.

Jeanie and thecrisis:

No one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied".

Posted by: JakeD | March 24, 2008 06:23 PM
-------------------------------------

I don't know what you're smoking bro, but you need to pass that sh!t around.

Hillary lies about her opposition to NAFTA and gets caught by releasing her public schedule.

Hillary lies about her role in bringing peace to Northen Ireland and gets outed by members of the British government.

Hillary lies about coming under sniper fire in Bosnia and gets caught by hundreds of news accounts and videos of the actual trip.

Three little reasons among many why Hillary will never return to the White House other than as a tourist.

Watch the video and you'll see that she actually believes this really happened. Her voice is full of conviction, her description of the "events" is detailed and compelling. But of course it didn't happen. Which means that she's delusional. She's not lying, she's crazy.

The press needs to do its job and call a lie a lie. As John McCain would say, a little straight talk. We've heard more than enough about comparative polls but I think the most interesting one would be who lies more--Bill or Hillary?

The "it depends on what you mean by lied" JakeD posts:

No one is saying that it's O.K. to lie -- what I am saying, at least, is that no one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied". Do you KNOW that she was not told to "run for the cars" on that trip?

______________________________________________________
The videos, the folks who were on the trip, etc. - I guess the fact that no one and nothing has confirmed her claim to have been told means that it could have happened, right, Jake? Why not just admit you were wrong and move on, Jake, (or just shut up - there's a radical concept) rather than continue to embarrass yourself by restating what everyone knows to have been a lie?

Misspeaking is getting the city you're in wrong when giving a stump speech; misspeaking is confusing someone's name when you're intorducing them to someone else. This was a flat out lie. Period. No amount of lipstick can gussie up this pig.

Now I'm really confused. You see, during this primary I have learned to hate Hillary's guts because I thought she was a masterful liar, Karl Rove-like. But now I see she's really not that good at making stuff up. I mean, what's the point of lying if you can't lie your way out of it when you get caught?

Now I don't know what to think about her qualifications to be president. She is still shameless, still lies, and still thinks she's fooling me. So maybe she's McCain's equal.

I'll vote for Barack.

Instead of calling it a "trivial mistake," call it what it is: a lie.

Boy oh boy, the Obamaites are in full force today with their bad mouthing and name calling. Why don't you and the media nincompoops focus on her Northern Ireland account ? Now that so many others have stepped forward with their support, you have nothing to gripe about except the tempest in a teapot over whether she was actually under sniper fire in Bosnia. The military commander in charge at the time said there was sniper fire in the mountains. That's enough for me
Do you want to have a first lady actually take fire?

What about Obama? He's barely been to Iraq, has no foreign policy experience and lied about his 20 year old association with Wright as well as all the extra money he took from Rezko. And he is not releasing his State Senate records. He has not held a single meeting of the Foreign Relations Committee since he became chair more than a year ago. And meantime he is taking a vacation in the Caribbean - strange timing, I bet to escape scrutiny whether he will attend Trinity for Easter. Good going Barrack.

C'mon Obamaites -- why don't you take a good look at your candidate. He is a hypocrite and lies about much more serious matters.

We want a President who will lead and that person is Hillary Clinton, not the neophyte orator, Obama.

alee-- there is video evidence demonstrating that the landing Hillary described as "dangerous" and "under sniper fire", was nothing of the sort. Hillary lied. Plain and simple. And no amount of attacks on anyone else's records can change that.

Hillary, talking about her Bosnian adventure on St Pat's Day 2008 with the actual video footage of Hillary with Chelsea in Bosnia as the visual backdrop would make a nice Obama political ad to play on the TV throughout Pennsylvania. Let the American people see that The Clinton's will say and do anything to win. They have little integrity yet so many Democrats support this lethal political family. They have surrogates throughout the country like Togo West who'll back up their lies all in hopes of an appointment if Hillary wins.

Well to paraphrase Bill Clinton, in Hillary's behalf:

"It all depends on what the definition of 'was' was."

I would much prefer to be lied to by Obama than Clinton.

With the Clinton's you even have to parse the lies to find the lies in the lies.

LIAR, LIAR, PANTSUIT ON FIRE! What the Salvatrix of Sarajevo thought was the sound of sniping was photo-op flashbulbs popping and local yokels shooting themselves to death upon being aghast at seeing Chelsea.

HRC's campaign is a minor blip.

Um, the constant use of the Hussein name in regards to Obama's middle name is idiotic.

He was born many years before the CIA and Cheney shook hands with Hussein.

Are you telling me a lot of fine people with the name of "Adolf" or "Benito" back in the day are also guilty by association?

To me it's worse telling lies yourself than sitting in church with a crazy preacher. These are her own words. You can't "remember" coming under sniper fire if it never happened. LIAR!

If it isn't clear by now, Hillary will do anything to become President, including lying and endorsing McCain. Why she would think the American people want to hear more lies is beyond me. Her methods are an insult to the adults paying attention to what she is doing.

Wel, that's embarrassing really. Let's see if we can find some more "creative truths". On NAFTA:

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/nafta-she-was-for-it-before-she-wasnt-really-against-it/

Come, come folks - it's just a Clinton trait to 'misspeak'. After all, Bill probably only 'misspoke' when he said, "I did not have sexual ralations with that woman..."

There are 60 seconds in a minute, and 60 minutes in an hour, making a total of 3600 minutes per hour. Assuming she is awake 16 hours per day, and speaking for half of this time, that makes a total of 3600 x 8 hours = 28,800 seconds of speech, maximum. As she clearly states "millions" in the plural, we must assume a minimum of 2 million words per day, and 2 million divided by 28,800 gives a total of 69 words per second.

Assuming that what she said is accurate (that she was not just explaining one exaggeration by way of another), she truly does have pretty amazing powers of communication. In fact, 69 words per second would probably put her into Guiness's book of records. Which would show she is truly modest, since she always reminds us that Obama is a much better speaker than she is!

Hillary seems unconcerned about Chelsea getting off that plane. If it were me, and I had been told that there might be snipers in the area, my kid would have been at my side with my arm around her. Hillary has never been accused of being a bad mother so I can only conclude; she was not worried about snipers!
And her answer to the Philadelphia Daily News: "You know, I think that, a minor blip, you know, if I said something that, you know, I say a lot of things -- millions of words a day -- so if I misspoke, that was just a mistatement." is son incoherent; it sounds like a Bushism.

Hillary seems unconcerned about Chelsea getting off that plane. If it were me, and I had been told that there might be snipers in the area, my kid would have been at my side with my arm around her. Hillary has never been accused of being a bad mother so I can only conclude; she was not worried about snipers!
And her answer to the Philadelphia Daily News: "You know, I think that, a minor blip, you know, if I said something that, you know, I say a lot of things -- millions of words a day -- so if I misspoke, that was just a mistatement." is so incoherent; it sounds like a Bushism.

DISPATCHES FROM THE GROUND WAR ...

TODAY'S NEW YORK TIMES REPORTING THAT HILLARY WINNING NOMINATION ABOUT AS LIKELY AS HER BEING SHOT AT BY SNIPERS IN BOSNIA ...

(DID SHE REALLY SAY THAT?)

The electorate that matters most now are not the voters waiting to go to the polls in the 10 nominating contests that remain between now and June. Instead, it is the superdelegates, -- the elected officials and party leaders who have automatic status as uncommitted delegates and whose votes are needed to put either Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton over the top. There are about 800 of them, and they are going be weighing two main arguments: Mr. Obama's contention that the Democratic rank-and-file has expressed its will and superdelegates shouldn't overturn it, and Mrs. Clinton's brief that she offers the party the best chance to defeat Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, this fall.

Mr. Obama's side of the argument has become almost unassailable, while Mrs. Clinton's is, at the least, open to debate. Mrs. Clinton's best hope now is that Mr. Obama, as a candidate, suffers a political collapse akin to what has happened to the subprime mortgage market, a view shared by aides in both campaigns. ...

DISPATCHES FROM THE GROUND WAR ...

TODAY'S NEW YORK TIMES REPORTING THAT HILLARY WINNING NOMINATION ABOUT AS LIKELY AS HER BEING SHOT AT BY SNIPERS IN BOSNIA ...

(DID SHE REALLY SAY THAT?)

The electorate that matters most now are not the voters waiting to go to the polls in the 10 nominating contests that remain between now and June. Instead, it is the superdelegates, -- the elected officials and party leaders who have automatic status as uncommitted delegates and whose votes are needed to put either Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton over the top. There are about 800 of them, and they are going be weighing two main arguments: Mr. Obama's contention that the Democratic rank-and-file has expressed its will and superdelegates shouldn't overturn it, and Mrs. Clinton's brief that she offers the party the best chance to defeat Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, this fall.

Mr. Obama's side of the argument has become almost unassailable, while Mrs. Clinton's is, at the least, open to debate. Mrs. Clinton's best hope now is that Mr. Obama, as a candidate, suffers a political collapse akin to what has happened to the subprime mortgage market, a view shared by aides in both campaigns. ...

Now that people have trashed Hillary lets get back to Obama's Minsters 'sermon's if Obama was not in church all the times then if his wife was there remember her the one who is proud of America for the first time in her adult life she should have heard the minster say these things why did she not let her hubby know that this kind of hatred was being preached, or is it because he only joined this church to get away from being called a muslim

What strikes me as odd in the "I didn't say that in my book or other times"-argument with which Ms Clinton tries to marginalize it as a one-incident off-hand slip of the tongue comment is that if you recount a certain story so many times, how can you all of a sudden misspeak on such important details? It is like occasionally forgetting who your high school date was once every ten times you tell the story.

Hillary would have had a better case had she said she was thinking of another trip, but then again there were probably not that many sniper-prone areas where she landed with her daughter after all.

Are you SURE that the First Lady was never told to "run to the cars"?
Posted by: JakeD | March 24, 2008 04:38 PM
__________________________________
Do you have a link to the first speech she gave that says that they DID "run to the cars with their heads down"? I've only heard it as "we were told". Thanks in advance.
Posted by: JakeD | March 24, 2008 06:01 PM
__________________________________
Jeanie and thecrisis:
No one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied".
Posted by: JakeD | March 24, 2008 06:23 PM
__________________________________
liar, liar and Steve:
No one is saying that it's O.K. to lie -- what I am saying, at least, is that no one has PROVEN (JK5432's phrasing, not mine) that she "lied". Do you KNOW that she was not told to "run for the cars" on that trip?
Posted by: JakeD | March 24, 2008 06:43 PM
__________________________________
See http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/campaign.wrap/index.html. "Sen. Hillary Clinton said she "misspoke" last week when she gave a dramatic description of her arrival in Bosnia 12 years ago, recounting a landing under sniper fire.

Clinton was responding to a question Monday from the Philadelphia Daily News' editorial board about video footage of the event that contradicted her assertion that her group "ran with our heads down" from the plane to avoid sniper fire at the Tuzla Air Base."
Note that she STATED that they "ran with (their) heads down." It wasn't whether or not she was told X, it was that she said she did X.

Point being, you disputed several posters without having the facts straight yourself, which you seemed to acknowledge in your first post. ("I've only heard it as "we were told".")

Hillary Clinton must think that we are all hopelessly stupid. Were we expected to believe that the Secret Service and the military officers on board (a) would have allowed a plane carrying the First Lady and the "First Daughter" to land somewhere where they knew they'd come under sniper fire and then, to compound one incredible situation with another, (b) would have actually disembarked the plane, telling the president's family to duck their heads and run for cover?

What a liar. And she would have told this story all campaign long if the media hadn't called her on it.

There is an excellent interview with Jonathan Alter of Newsweek at Keith Olbermann's Count Down:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23785397#23785397

The beginning of the interview refers to Hillary's ackowledgement that she mispoke when she told that she was under sniper fires when she arrived in Bosnia.

However, the best part of the interview comes at the two/third of it when Jonathan Alter mentions many cases of substantive exagerations by Hillary: Northen-Ireland peace process, CHIPS, family-medical leave act,...

Here's the full quote: "She said when she arrived in Bosnia on March 25, 1996, "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.""

In fact, videos show them leisurely leaving the plane, meeting a greeting party. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXbtwq8atkw. Notice the inconsistency between statements on the tape: first she says "we ran to our vehicles with our heads down", and later she says "and we basically were told to run to our cars".

Her assertion that if it was too dangerous for the President, send the First Lady, was also false, as Bill Clinton visited Bosnia before she did.

umm I'm not a plugged-in, blogged up, political maven like some of you guys but isn't it mathematically impossible for Hillary to win the nomination now?

I mean only if you count pledged delegates...oh and popular vote...and pledged super-delegates...and the most likely action of the remaining super-delegates.

Whether you're for Obama or Hillary I assume you're a Democrat, so wouldn't it be in your party's best interest for the person who's been mathematically eliminated to drop out?

Or maybe I'm just missing some super keen political nuance that renders math illogical...oh you wacky Dems! Who needs math when you've got nuance!

Forget a merged ticket, Hil and Bam should be negotiating whose car they'll take to the McCain inauguration.

Posted by: jollygood: McCain also mislead the public, saying his visit to a Bagdad market was safe, when he was protected troops and helicopters as he spent 10 minutes buying a falafal. It seems to me there is just one candidate left who beleives truth is the best policy.

This is laughable. McCain was lying because he wasn't shot while eating a falafel in Baghdad? Let me guess, you think Obama is honest? The guy that sat in a pew for 20 years listening to a racist preacher and claiming he didn't know he was listening to hate spewing from the pulpit? Go back and listen to his interviews before his so called "teaching speech on race relations". You will catch him in bold faced lies when comparing what he said in that speech just like Hillary has been caught now. Both, Obama and Hillary, are not fit to be Commander in Chief of this country. They are dishonest and exaggerate everything they try to claim as experience or justification for us giving them our votes. McCain looks like he is already President compared to these two Democrat yahoos.

Incredible that so much time and ink would be spent on an this story. So if she was shot at, she would be more qualified to be president, is that it?
Or are we testing memory from 12 years ago?
The full story, and its been posted here is that she went out to forward bases after landing at Tuzla, if she were in greater danger there, would Sinbad tell us, oh, he didn't go out to the forward bases where the CBS Reporter said, at the time, that no First Lady had ever before ventured.

The misstatement was minor, so all of you Obamanaiacs, get over your obscessing with this.

Memory from 12 years ago is one thing and whether Clinton recalled the sequents of events correctly, she may have meant that there was sniper fire nearby, she had to be cautious and aware that there may be some sniper fire, it was a combat zone. If she misspoke, then the truth was shaded because the thrust of the statement was correct. She went into a combat zone to visit the troops, and as the CBS Report states, to keep her word, given the prior December to do so.

So to keep her word, she went into a combat zone which is something no other First Lady has done.

Now Obama and his truthtelling ability. Right after the Rev. Wright issue exploded, a columnist in the New York Times, William Krystol inaccurately reported the Obama was in the church during the sermons at a time after Obama had said that he was never present in the church when Wright was making these race baiting anti-American statements.

Krystol was widely condemned for his article and he has since retracted it. Obamaniacs protested that the comment was seriously damaging because if Obama was indeed in the church, it would end his candidacy. Truth telling was that important on this issue.

Then, in the race speech, Obama fessed up, he said he was in the church. Now that's not just missing the facts by a little bit.

The equivalent with regard to Clinton's remarks would have been if she said she had gone to Tuzla when actually she never left the White House.

Obama's prevarication is that big a lie to say that he was not present, when actually he was. And this was not a recent recolletion. One year ago he was told to distance himself from his preacher because the preacher was controversial. Obama knew that one year ago before his immediate first statement after the exposure that he was not present in the church.

So when caught with daming facts, Obama's first impulse is to --- What Children, what does Obama do when he is caught with daming facts??

He lies. Yes he lies openly, not missing a recollection, but knowing the true facts, he lies and has enough hubris and arrogance to think he can get away with his lie.

Well with the coddling press he can and he has apparently as this Clinton story is getting far more play than Obama's daming confession.

But that's fine, out here in the real world, away from the small tightly wired world of the national press, we all hear what is going on and we can sort out what is real and what is not.

When we the people speak in elections, the talking heads get that look on their faces like fish with the hook caught in their throat. Their ginned up reality has to come face to face with the reality of the voters. In this country, the people are still the ultimate jury, not the press, not the talking heads, but the people.

When we speak, then the case is closed. Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia and Kentucky.

Let the people speak. Let them give their verdict on these candidates and let us trust the people to deliver up the right candidate as our Democratic nominee, whomever that candidate might be.

Posted by: jollygood: McCain also mislead the public, saying his visit to a Bagdad market was safe, when he was protected troops and helicopters as he spent 10 minutes buying a falafal. It seems to me there is just one candidate left who beleives truth is the best policy.

This is laughable. McCain was lying because he wasn't shot while eating a falafel in Baghdad? Let me guess, you think Obama is honest? The guy that sat in a pew for 20 years listening to a racist preacher and claiming he didn't know he was listening to hate spewing from the pulpit? Go back and listen to his interviews before his so called "teaching speech on race relations". You will catch him in bold faced lies when comparing what he said in that speech just like Hillary has been caught now. Both, Obama and Hillary, are not fit to be Commander in Chief of this country. They are dishonest and exaggerate everything they try to claim as experience or justification for us giving them our votes. McCain looks like he is already President compared to these two Democrat yahoos.

Intersting comparison to earlier fact checker. What did Obama HEAR versus what Hillary SAID.

Looks like a lot of hype from the typical Clinton bashers on an incredibly trivial topic.

WHERE ARE THE ISSUES????

Why isn't anybody picking up on Obama plagarizing from Clinton's web site?

Nobody seems to have notice that Clinton had a plan for working on getting out of Iraq on her web site several months ago wqhich included consulting with the joint chiefs on how best to bring the military home. At the time, the Obama web site had no plan. It just advocated setting a deadline. About a month ago the Obama web site suddenly included Clinton's plan.

This is also trivial, but it