This is an interesting case. First of all, the church has within its special exception "educational uses" that the church has interpreted to mean that they can have their seminary. Second, nothing of the sort was envisioned or described during the special exception process.

McLean Bible is a horrible neighbor--not because they aren't nice folks (they are), but because the church, a mega-church, generates a lot of activity and traffic. One might ask, if you can't have a mega-church on Route 7, then where in Fairfax County might you have one? This is a fair question. However, the traffic problems created by the church are extreme - to the point that many area residents will do anything to avoid that part of Route 7 on Sundays. The church should have been required to make major improvements to Route 7, including, possibly, an interchange. But they weren't. So, we live with the consequences.

There is a real danger to the current case. The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) is a federal law that dictates how tightly local governments can regulate religious land use. If Fairfax County pushes this issue, over a relatively "mild" problem with the current seminary, we risk losing the battle AND the war. Don't think RLUIPA won't be invoked if McLean Bible takes this case to court.

Do I have a suggested solution for the BZA? Yes. Negotiate some limited seminary use, possibly with traffic management improvements, and overturn the Zoning Administrator (who ruled against the seminary). Don't let this battle end up on court. It's not worth having our abilities to control church land use negated by the courts.

Just a thought, not a sermon. :)

All of this should be kept in perspective. Who wants to be near Wolf Trap when a concert is getting out? Frankly, McLean Bible Church has better road access than Wolf Trap.

McLean Bible should not be used as a scapegoat for our underlying lack of infrastructure. The traffic, after all, is far worse Monday through Friday on Route 7 during rush hour.

Route 7 should be widened to deal with all the gridlock at Tysons Corner, which would then relieve the congestion on Sundays.

Given all the new development proposed at Tysons Corner with the Metro extension, there will be a lot of opportunities for Fairfax County to extract road improvement proffers from office and condo developers.

It should be noted that there isn't even a "mild" traffic problem with the current seminary. The only issue here is control. But religious instruction is religious instruction and the Constitution is clear on religious freedom. That is why RLUIPA was passed in the first place.

Bill of Rights - Amendment I

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

The seminary classes should be a non-issue. Religious freedom is a paramount.

In the meantime the church, in an effort to be an even better neighbor, has started a shuttle program to get more people to park offsite in Tysons in order to relieve the Sunday morning congestion.

This is a case of, let it go for now, get the thing built, and then just keep coming back until you grind them down.

This issue came up at the very beginning, when the Bible Church swore they would not get into the seminary business.

Then again, when they tried it a few years ago. It was part of the deal. They are not supposed to be teaching there. Will they keep their word?

Or are they exempt?

Advanced religious instruction is not a "business".

Yes, they are tax exempt.

As the previous poster said, MBC agreed several years ago as part of the permitting process that they would not put in a seminary, and now they are going back on their word.

Nothing upsets me more than the sermon, such as above, that is followed by:

"Just a thought, not a sermon. :)"

When I hear it on the radio, I change stations.

Complicated situation.

However, I come down on, as another post said:

Bill of Rights, Amendment 1

When I look out my windows I see the ugly monstrocity that is the MBC. I hear the noisy trucks that service the building before 5 am in the morning. In the winter I see the light polution from their cars and the parking lot. On Sundays, I can't leave my neighborhood because of the traffic generated by their members. When I try to make the U-turn necessary to get to my home I have to contend with the traffic leaving the cult who don't yield at the stop sign.

They own property along the access road that is overgrown with weeds and years of trash accumulation. It's ugly compared to the well cared for neighbors on either side of their property.

Now let think about what they have done to make living in my neighborhood better....NOTHING!

An institution of this size should not be in a residential neighborhood. We told the Board of Supervisors of this when they reviewed the SEA. Stu Mendelson was on the take back then and the MBC got him re-elected. Now he represents them and helps them move their agenda forward.

They have a philosophy of give me a little, then I'll ask for a bit more, and keep asking until I get everything I want. It's time someone says enough is enough.

That property that was the National Wildlife Federation's could have been a great addition to the local community. Stu did not represent our interests and now we are stuck with a flood of people from all over the metro area adding traffic to a horrible situation. I hope they soon out grow this site and they have to move somewhere else. Or hopefully Lon will find that next MEGACHURCH Opportunity in Lynchburg or Oklahoma or somewhere else and they colapse under their own size.

A nuclear plant would be a better neighbor!

Those who think Fairfax County is doing a good thing by limiting when a church can offer biblical instruction should move to China or Cuba.

To: Strict Constitution Supporter

I agree with you, totally.

My guess is that most of the folks who are against the MBC/seminary arrangement have not bothered to physically look at what they're fighting over. This is a fight about 1 classroom (and a small one at that), one office (and a tiny one at that), and a pretty small open space that is sometimes used as a conference room by the church at-large. This is (and has been) the sum total of the amount of space in MBC's massive facility that is devoted to satellite seminary instruction. The MBC food pantry is bigger than this. The number of people who take classes in this small space is barely a blip, and never rises to the level of the size of a decent Superbowl party. Low-income folks who avail themselves of MBC's clothing ministry create more week-to-week traffic.

I can understand the concerns of the neighbors and the County. If MBC had the intention of offering stand-alone seminary degrees with a library, resident faculty and all the rest, which might very well require an expansion in dedicated facilities, then this would indeed be a problem. But MBC is not in this business, nor have they ever been. I know the neighbors don't trust MBC, and I know they think they have good reasons not to. But the neighbors have been every bit as partisan, non-cooperative, unforgiving, and uncompromising as any actions MBC has taken. Some of the posts here clearly reflect that. The neighbors need to understand that their trustworthiness and motives are also very much at issue here. The current seminary arrangement at MBC has no material impact on noise or traffic. That simply isn't a rational objection. The only objection that makes sense is if there's a perception that the current immaterial nature of the arrangement is temporary, and that a major expansion is in the works. Given MBC's size, this is not a ridiculous concern. But there are ways to reasonably incorporate this concern into an oversight process that is non-invasive and doesn't chuck the Constitution into the garbage. The problem is that both sides can't (or won't) agree on a reasonable oversight process, and the neighbors are every bit as guilty as MBC of intransigence here.

In response to comments made by: MB Next Door Neighboor

Firstly, MBC isn't in your neighborhood. It is on the edge and was zoned for commercial use when NWF was there. If it was used for residences, there would probably be even more complaining about how YOUR property values dropped because of the newer, better construction and to accommodate these new residences there would be just as much noise from lawn mowers, cars, parties, waste management trucks, etc. Not to mention construction noise, dirt, and additional tree removal and runoff. In short, the problems would be as bad if not greater to both your life and the environment. Even moreso if you wanted your proposed "nuclear plant."

I do think that architecturally the church could have been designed a lot better (to look like a church) but it is what is being accomplished inside that building that counts. Have you ever been to MBC for worship? If not, you may begin to appreciate what is being done for YOUR community and those in need who aren't as fortunate living in our immediate area. Think outside your own neighborhood. I am not rich but I have been fortunate to live in this area yet always recognize the needs of others. The church fulfills the needs of those less fortunate than you and I, who don't care about light pollution near their homes and U-turns because they don't have homes or cars. I am talking about the church outreach to poor and those needing a spiritual oasis. You do have the right to move as well and the only place with no noise and little light pollution is western Loudoun County, only for a while longer. You don't have to go but do not forget that there are options for those who choose.

It sounds as though church just isn't your thing and that you may even detest people having the right to assemble freely to worship because it is too close to you. And, why is it that when it is a church, people get so upset. Would it be acceptable to put a shopping center there? Wouldn't it be more convenient for the neighborhood to have a few restaurants, a grocery store, and a gas station--maybe a few small retail outlets? The answer is yes due to the fact that it's a drive to either Great Falls, Vienna or McLean/Falls Church to do your grocery shopping? The truth is you wouldn't complain about something like that but you'd be stuck with a situation that is even worse (greater noise, light pollution, rats, trash vehicles, constant/consistent traffic on a daily basis). But remember the convenience of the shopping center would somehow be more acceptable to you and the neighbors. At least you are holding out hope that the church will grow so large as to outgrow its current location which may just happen due to its popularity.

In closing, have you counted the number of people in our area and your neighborhood (within 1, 2 or 5 miles) who attend MBC regularly and are active members? I think you'd be quite surprised with how many of your close neighbors attend and enjoy the benefits of MBC and find dealing with traffic only a problem because they couldn't get to church on time.