I've heard everyone railing against Verizon's "overly broad" patents and some commentators are going so far as to call Verizon a patent troll. But, does anyone even know? Who is to say that Vonage isn't obviously infringing Verizon's patents. Patent law is far more complex than saying Verizon has a patent to VoIP. There are legal "claims" and defined limitations. Has there been any credible analysis concerning the merits of Verizon's patents?

I'm not familiar with verizon's VoIP offering.
Even if they have a totally legitimate patent claim, a highly dubious proposition, but even if they do, they are using the patent to prevent competition and innovation, the very things that patent law is meant to promote. If the spirit and intent of the law is to be followed, then patents used in this way should be summarily voided. People forget that patents are a governmentally imposed monopoly for the specific purpose of fostering competition, not a right in and of itself.

The most detailed analysis of Verizon's patents (multiple pages to read through including significant portions of the patent wording) that I have seen is located here:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1517

Verizon is simply the corporate version of the Bush Administration. Screw what's right or legal or fair. We're going to do what is in our and only our best interest. Verizon pursued litigation against Vonage in an effort to achieve in court what it cannot achieve in the marketplace.

If Verizon's landline service is so outstanding, why are thousands of people flocking to VoIP service in the first place? Because Verizon is a dinosaur with (what used to be) a market-lock on home telephone service, and it greatly inflates its prices simply because it can.

To anonymous: Geez. Why does every subject end up being divided into Republican or Democrat? Give it a rest!

I have Vonage and have had no problems with itm except when the electricity goes out. Now my cable company is advertising the same type of service at the LOW price of forty dollars a month. Why would I want to spend twice as much for the same thing? I have to think that Verizon just wants to be able to sell the same service at a higher price. Who would want to compete with Vonage's low price? I will keep my cost savings as long as I can, which I hope is a long time.

When Vonage was found to have infringed on Verizon's patents, I dropped everything to find a new VoIP carrier. For four years, I used Vonage for my business. And those Vonage phone numbers are posted everywhere. The thought of having to get new numbers left me unsettled. I actually went to Verizon VoiceWing when they assured me they could port my numbers. I must say that the quality is excellent, technical service is top-notch, and my Vonage VoIP numbers ported without difficulty. Crisis averted!

I've only had Vonage a short time but my phone bills have gone from $75-$200 a month on Verizon to $28 with the VoIP. So I'm standing by Vonage until the lights go out, if they do.

Like the previous poster (Standing By My Men), we are very happy Vonage customers and keeping them as long as they are around. Verizon was more than twice the cost for less service; and their customer service was difficult to deal with. We've been following the patent litigation and rooting for Vonage to survive.

I've got Vonage, have had for about a year and a half, and I love it. I'll stick with it until it goes.

I must say that I think it's wrong to patent most technology ideas. If it's good, it becomes a protocol. You should only go after a company if you have proof the had documents (or similar) that were yours and that's the only reason they were able to make whatever they made.

It seems to me that people are mixing points of view... If a company invests in Research and Development, the payoff is protected technology in the form of a patent. It's not being mean. It's leveraging their R&D investment.

If Vonage, or anyone, wants to use someone elses patented technology, they can pay a license fee, just like every one of you do when you pay the license fee for your PC Operating System.

If someone doesn't want to pay the license fee, they should develop their own technology.

The alternative would be to promote a culture of intellectual property theft, which rewards criminals and penalizes the original inventor of the technology, as they are the ones who invested in the necessary research. The others just steal it for free.

and morganja.... not sure where you get your information relation to your 'dubious' comment, but the place where conflicting patent claims are resolved is in court.... and the court has ruled that Vonage must pay a royalty or license fee because they violated one or more of Verizon's patents... If they want to stop paying the fee, they have to build a better mousetrap that doesn't violate any patents.....

If you really want cheap, but not always 100% reliable, you can use one of the various messenger programs for free, assuming that you already have broadband internet access...

I audio/video/type chat, all at the same time, with a friend from another country on a regular basis.... It works because we have broadband at each end... I've wondered about this when you can essentially make a free phone call anywhere in the world that is also connected to the internet... You can't get much cheaper than free, assuming you already have the necessary equipment and broadband connection, which would be required for VoIP.

In the future, I suspect that businesses will be the primary consumer, and much of the consumer land-line business will be replaced by PC to PC internet communication. Cell phone popularity is increasing and the need for a land line is less pronounced.

I have a personal cell phone and a work cell phone, and don't feel the need to have an additional VoIP or land-line phone, as I have a cable broadband connection. I audio/video/type chat regularly with family members many miles away....

In the next 10 years... I think that there will be serious competition to own the data pipe to each house, whether it comes from a phone or cable company, and it will suppport delivery of audio and video content, internet access, and voice communications....

Those who control the pipe, get to charge the tolls and pricing considerations will expand to include all of these facilities....

Just what I think....

As Standing By My Men said, I'm sticking with Vonage until the end (if there is one). Verizon not only charges an insane amount for phone service, but their customer service is horrible. Vonage > Verizon.

I am not happy with Verizon at all. It is not that I am some rabid Vonage fan, I have had their service and gotten rid of it in fact. I do not like what Verizon is doing with their patent lawsuits. The patents are basicly crap from what I can tell, and the behavior on their part is predatory.

> Even if they have a totally legitimate
> patent claim, a highly dubious proposition,
> but even if they do, they are using the
> patent to prevent competition and
> innovation, the very things that patent
> law is meant to promote.

Umm, not quite. Patent law is designed to promote public *documentation* of new ideas. In exchange, the owner is given a *monopoly* on that idea for a given period of time. It is expressly *not* designed to promote competition. It is a trade of one valuable thing (public documentation of an innovative idea) for another (exclusive rights to the idea for a given period of time).

Article I of the *US Constitution* talks quite specifically about granting a monopoly to the inventor:

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

Vonage rocks. Absolutely rocks. Patents are usually bargaining tools between businesses (and some protection at times). And they in no way resemble anyone's administration. That was a pretty feeble comment by Anonymous. My 2 cents.

You can't patent an idea... only an implementation of an idea. No R & D goes into an idea... anyone can have one with no effort involved at all. What is protected is the effort in developing that idea, that for the period of the patent no one else can profit from your work in such development.

Its actually the that the technology used to make vonage's service run may have been invented by verizon. that would mean they own it, which would suck because vonage is a much more affordable service. not to mention that dealing with verizon wireless makes me ill, and the thought of having to pay verizon more......arrgghh

Verizon has no claims to the patent. There was a Usenet posted in 1995 that clearly defines how to set up a VoIP system.

It is brilliant.
Read it here: http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1550

Any judge who saw this material would throw out any judgment against Vonage, and all VoIP companies would be safe.

Does Verizon plan on using what is has patented or are these nuisance patents intended to stifle competition.

As a vonage customer for 3 years I have nothing but good things to say about the service.

As a Verizon wireless customer I am less than enthusiastic about their support. I was also a GTE/Verzion customer for my land line for 2 or 3 years and again the service was something less than desireable.

Good luck Vonage!

I first signed up with Vonage back in April of 2004. I am a college student and work full time. I live 2500 miles away from my family and for under 30 dollars a month I can unlimited calling and 2 numbers on my phone that allows my family back east to call me at a local rate. It comes down to more choice being taken away from the american public. Its happening everyday. Verizon could offer the same service at the same price but does not want to and certainly does not want the competition from a company that can. Its not about political party affiliation. Its about corporate america raking in cash from a society of people that have become politically incactive and slowly dumbed down. None of us will speak out, Vonage may go under, some of us will grumble a bit and end up with Verizon. Verizon knows that.

I understand a company's need to protect what is legally theirs. And I understand that this company need to sue the other. What I don't condone is timing. Vonage has been operating for at least 4 years, Verizon's strategy is that of a company loosing the race and employing low tactics to get back on the bandwagon.

Verizon, if you truly want to get back on the race, try offering a better service at a more competitive price so that customers switch to you. Snuffing out the competition in the way you are trying is just plain wrong.

Even if Verizon wins, Do they actually think people will turn to them for service! Get for real I will never use their service Their are many other alternatives them Verizon. Quit Crying Verizon and lower your prices and you may gain some new customers.

I have been a Vonage subscriber for over 2 years. I have the 500 min-$14.95 per month plan. The service is 100% reliable. I do not want to be forced to drop Vonage because of a patent law suit. I would need to port my existing number and not all competing VoIP companies can guarantee the same number. And what other company has a plan that cheap?

I have seen serveral posts complaining about Verizon customer service. I have needed to call Verizon on many occassions for landline, Internet, and FIOS installations issues. I am convinced that everyone I spoke with genuinely wanted to help.

However I think the organization of the company is confusing even to Verizon employees in the various departments. I usually get transferred around a bit. On one occassion I had to make multiple calls over several days to get a trouble ticket resolved. I get the impression that the customer service office and the dispatch office don't get along so well. They don't act like one big, happy company.

As for Vonage customer service, the wait times are long -- as long as an hour. However because the service is reliable I have rarely needed to call.

These are great comments. Let's keep the pot stirring here:

* Nobody's mentioned the other, non-Verizon VoIP companies--for example, Packet8 or SunRocket. If you're a Vonage customer, would you feel any safer switching to one of them?

* I know a lot of people here seem to think that Verizon's patents aren't valid in the first place. But suppose that Vonage is, indeed, guilty of infringing on a valid patent. What would a just penalty be in that case?

- RP

I seems to me like Verizon could have sued when Vonage first started but as greedy as they are they waited until Vonage had established something worth taking. Patent laws are complex and ethics are usually clear. Let the other Company work hard then take their profits.

@Rob:

I looked into Packet8 about a year ago, maybe more, and they were still sorting out their E911 issues. Vonage was able to give me E911 first, and that was a dealbreaker for my wife, so we went with Vonage. Packet8 seemed more bleeding edge, with more features but less stability than Vonage. I still don't understand why I can't set a schedule to forward my calls from 8am to 5pm, or just for the next three hours. I either turn forwarding on and forget it's on when I get home, or I just wait until a voicemail message is e-mailed to me.

What I don't understand about these types of cases is, HOW did Vonage come up with this technology? If they did the R&D themselves, they should be able to prove that. If not, did Verizon publically post schematics or something? And can patents be revoked if not defended, like trademarks? Or is Verizon alleging corporate espionage?

@Chip Henry:

I think you meant to say "Any judge who saw this material AND UNDERSTOOD IT would throw out any judgment against Vonage, and all VoIP companies would be safe." (capitals mine)

The problems are, 1) judges won't know what is non-obvious to people in that field, and 2) it's the judge's job to interpret the law, even if the law is an ass, and allows patent awards based on general ideas instead of specific implementations.

Has anyone here looked at the below article and still think Verizon has a prayer of being correct, or isn't it just plain clear that they stole the idea and patented it?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1550

I got rid of Verizon because of poor service. I paid $200/month to Verizon and I was an unhappy customer. I have a business and repeatedly the phone would not accept incoming customer calls on Saturdays. I would call the Verizon repair dept and they would not pick up the telephone to answer my call. I love Vonage. The service and price are great. I would never go back to Verizon. What Verizon is doing is unethical.

I think folks are getting the wrong idea - the lawsuit isn't on the premise of VoIP. Its a subset of it - mainly the technology used to map the VoIP caller to the land-line caller.

I'm also guessing that the timing isn't because Vonage is becoming a threat now... but maybe it simply took this long to figure it out (i.e. reverse engineering?).