Correction: Finland is not a Scandinavian country. Sweden and Norway are.

Finland is a Nordic and Fenno-Scandian country.

The biggest newspaper in the country "Helsingin sanomat" has just added blogging to it's online edition. Maybe it was your series of articles that led to this... Thank you so much!

Antti seems to be a Geographist.
For a more refined analysis of the term 'Scandinavia' see:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq21.html#2.1
Cheers, Esa

Great articles and great format. Next time, visit Lapland during the winter months, it would be interesting.
Children in US elementary schools could read about the trip and find out about Santa Claus.
Keep up the good work.

You seem to be very interested in music. Maybe you should look at these links..

Osmo Vänskä
http://www.minnesotaorchestra.org/osmo2/

Lahti Symphony Orchestra
http://update.econnection.fi/sinfonia/index_eng.php

Iloved every entry into your Finland Diary and looked forward to every new day to see what you would write about next. Thank you for your in depth coverage of this very small yet very significant country that is so dear to the hearts of many like me whose parents were born there and lived there during the worst of times. Kiitos!!!

Wrong link. WeeGee and the Cultural Center aren't the same place. This is the address of the Cultural Center, where I guess you were: http://www.espoo.fi/xsl_taso1_ilmanajank.asp?path=1;606;607;1800;9652 (And administratively Espoo is independent of Helsinki, and we at least try to call ourselves a city instead of a suburb...)

Anyway, the Finland Diary was superb! I'm sure that people in the next country (there will be a next country, I hope?) will love you as well.

To Liisa: No, no more Santa Claus ever again! I hate him! Couldn't we Finns just join the rest of the world and believe that he lives in the North Pole and not in Finland? I'm sick of our "We are the Santa Claus Country" attitude... But despite that, this is a great place to live. :)

I wonder and admire, how much you could see, listen, travel and write in such a short time! And how well you noticed and reflected,what we wanted you to tell of ourselves and our beautiful cold country to the American people.

I hope, that next time you have possibility to visit also the historic places of Helsinki. You certainly know, that Finland has Swedish, Russian and independant eras and their produced structures are still visible here in many places.
http://www.hel2.fi/tourism/EN/matko.asp

Very many thanks! And welcome back.

It was so great to read this series - it is so rare to find anything about Finland, that isn't a quote from the Lonely Planet, or depicting some long dead figures :) Paljon kiitoksia! (hopefully you will get at least some non-finnish comments about this also, just to put the record straight)

[I posted this first to a wrong section, sorry for the dublicate]

I have also read this journeydiary every week and I have enjoyed it very much. Especially I found these comment areas to be very interesting. Big thanks to people who were really interested to learn about us Finns and hold the conversation informative with the help of some Finns who didn´t just arque and finger point. My greetings to those in the US who have Finnish roots, why not ´pop in´ in Finland next time you are about to have a holiday abroad (no pre-calling required) :)

Sadly this too has to come to an end and I just would like to thank Robert G. Keiser and Lucian Perkins for writing this blog and keeping it open for people to have discussions on these topics, and sometimes a bit off too, but no harm done there. I say my thanks here so I won´t fill your emailbox :)

For everyone, enjoy the summer (plus silence and sauna!!). Keep the discussions alive there in the States ^^

Auf wiedersehen,
Tomma

PS. In japanese (or was it chinese) smileys it´s the eyes that reveal if the smiley is smiling or not. Whatta!?1oneone. maube I should travel there to find out, see it for myself how it works ;)

I so enjoyed this series! Thank you!

Though I live now in northern Virginia, I'm originally from Minnesota and I lived for several years in northern Minnesota around Duluth where there are many people of Finnish descent. The personality characteristics of Finns living in Finland are can still be found in their cousins in northern Minnesota!

Santa Claus the Turkish Saint in American clothes. Where is the people's movement to ban Santa as Un-Finnish, when there were movements for the purity of Finnish mustard and vodka?!

Maybe I'll start the web site my self. "Santa is Not Finnish!"

The Finnish Joulupukki (Christmas Goat) is an authentic pagan tradition, complete with birch bark mask and whippings for those he dislikes. Let's get him back and stop this plastic Santa nonsense.

Thank you very much for your articles! I've enjoyed reading them. Every day I waited for a new story. The photos were great too! Kiitos! :)

Thank you Lucian and Robert! You really did a nice job covering a large part of Finnish culture. I am sad to see it end. Thanks also to all those blogers only wish more of you could agree to disagree.

Jumalan rauhaa kaikkille....

Hello Robert and Lucian! I am sad that your journey in Finland has come to an end :( I really enjoyed reading your articles plus looking at the beautiful photos. I am going on my own Finland journey this Christmas and I am really excited about it! To be in a beautiful country with the man I love ... what more can a girl ask for!!!

As I thought, you neglected to mention the problems of racism here...and yes they do exist. What a white wash but I am not surprised. Like minds stick together and avoid the issue in regards people of color or immigrants in general. You saw what they wanted you to see and were blinded by all the "nice" window dressing. On the surface Finland is a nice place, but the ugly truth is that immigrants are NOT welcomed here and every attempt is made by Finns to subtely distance themselves from those that are not True Finns. "If its different, I don't want it" is the battle cry of Finns, whose resistance to anything remotely different is exceeded only by their stubborness to recognise you even exist. Of course any country wants to show its best side, but a real reporter would have delved deeper. I can't see where you interviewed any immigrants or people of color and your statement that you did saw very few immigrants only reinforces the belief in the immigrant community that Finland is a racist country.

Kiitos - thank you for this series of articles. I have had the page bookmarked and visited it every day to see the new writings, photos and comments. I have been impressed and enjoyed it very much. You've done remarkably good work in conveying your impressions during the journey.

Have a nice vacation now, it's been well earned!

Great work - big thanks to you! By net standards the discussions in the comments have actually been quite civilized and also surprisingly informative. For myself, it is always such a surprise to encounter these "Fennomans" who still have such a chip on their shoulder about Sweden - of all places. I mean get yourself a more modern grudge for God's sake! This might be bit hurtful to both American critics of their media and to Finnish critics of America, but when it comes to reporting, the Anglo-Saxons still are the best. The worrying thing about the US is that your own government seems to get off increasingly lightly: that is not really patriotism - it is the opposite of patriotism... Anyway, thanks for a very interesting and high quality reporting!

Immigrant - have you looked at the statistics? Finns are xenophobic towards people from another village; let alone other country. Isolation has made it this way. Theres been virtually only emigration and only since 1990 we've had any significant number of immigrants. Do you know in 1980 there were 12 000 "foreigners" living in Finland!? Since the 1990 the "flood" of immigrants, it is a flood if its 12 000 to 120 000, has caused some knee-jerk reactions, but what would you expect. If you are coming yourself from a multicultural society you are comparing apples and oranges. Finland has neen a monoculture especially since after the war.

- theres no immigrants because nobody wants to immigrate here.
or
- theres nobody immigrating here because there are no immigrants here
or
- theres no jobs because theres no immigrants
or
- theres no immigrants because theres no jobs
or
- theres no immigrants because Finns are xenophobic
or
- Finns are xenophobic because there hasn't been much if any immigration until quite recently

Enough with this intolerance! I've been an immigrant most of my life, in Sweden, in UK, in USA. And despite the fact that I'm a Finn born and raised there I've also been most of my life an 'immigrant in Finland' as I never lived in the part of a country what I could call home, didn't speak the same dialect since we moved around. Immigrants, whether it's in the so called melting pot of the USA (which is more of a salad bowl of different kinds of greenery glued together by a thin varnish of oil and mostly vinegar) or highly homogeneous Finland, always get treated differently from their born and bred counterparts. And if you're of different colour, never mind if you were born in the place or not you get a different treatment, and if you on top of that are a female, you get yet another kind of treatment. USA is a great place to live if you're rich, white, Anglo-Saxon male, if you're anything else it's less of a desirable place to be. In Sweden with all its great ambitions and "Swedish model" immigrants and other "odd folks" get treated differently. And without speaking the language of the country, it's very hard to get along anywhere.

Most people in Finland or USA or anywhere else only want to associate with people they relate to i.e. same colour, social background, gender, monetary status and alike, meaning for example in the USA you seldom find suburbs where white and black live as neighbours. While Finland is homogenous, and while many people over there as well as any where else in the world are wary of foreigners, that does not make them racists or bigots, merely ignorant or even shy. Most people just want to have an easy life and avoid yet another hassle of figuring out what food to offer, is it ok to shake hands or what language to use.

Immigrants in the USA or Sweden or Germany or Australia or Finland or anywhere else do not have a very easy time, and there are any number of dishwashers and taxi cab drivers who have high academic exams and can't get a job corresponding to their education. Despite the fact the USA is a country made of immigrants; it's a very very false idea that immigrants over here have an easy time. If you're white male with great English language skills, you have it a lot easier even without any collage education than if you're a refugee from Africa with a high academic degree.

And while I agree that Finland definitely needs an influx of people, if for no other reason than diversity itself is rewarding, it's going to take time and education the same way as it's required in the USA. I lost count of how many articles in papers over here in the US I've read about "immigrants come here to take advantage of our benefits" or "there are Americans unemployed and that's because of all the immigrants". It's totally unfounded of course, but people are people, here as well as in Finland, and they fear the unknown.

Cultural diversity is in general terms very good for a society for the same reason it's good for a company if the CEO avoids to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men. If everybody always agrees, there's no discussion and no initiative for new thoughts and ideas. Tolerance, understanding and empathy for foreigners are also very good traits, but for a country that has been seen as "free land to grab" by its two large war mongering neighbours, it is to a degree understandable if Finns in general are a bit wary of the idea of an influx of immigration. Getting along with people outside of ones comfort zone requires an effort. Education can be applied to build the bridges but it does take time, in Finland and the USA as well as anywhere else.

Immigrant -this was a series of articles about Finland. I fail to understand why on earth the topic "racism in Finland" should have been handled. It may be the most interesting topic in YOUR mind, but that is just not good enough reason. There probably is some racism in Finland, as in other countries as well. I believe the idea was to handle issues that make Finland different from other countries and racism certainly is not one of them.

A little point of curiosity regarding the online discussion: The room with the nice view has not yet been connected to the city heat plants, which means that "the hottest hot water you have ever experienced" is actually made "on the house": there are electric water boilers in each of the apartments instead of hot water pipes rising through the building.

Thank you for choosing our old, humble and slightly eccentric house. I truly appreciate the knowledge that we've been neighbors!

Yes, I think we are not peculiarly racist, but our cultural and historical background emphasizes racist and xenophobic attitudes (an isolated, sparse population being at first hundreds of years a pawn between Russia and Sweden, then suffering a very murderous 20th century attack by Stalin, and only in the 90's getting the first significant influx of immigrants). This does not excuse discrimination, but you can't address it without understanding its causes. Considering this background we have already progressed quite a bit. Maybe we can also learn from the mistakes of other Western European nations and revise a functioning model which would lead to ghettos or very antagonistic attitudes and laws (Norway and Denmark are getting to be quite scary examples with their complete turnaround from tolerance to intolerance). So, yes, it must be very frustrating to be an immigrant in Finland, but name me a country where it's a bed of roses...

Hmm, a "not" is missing from one sentence above changing the meaning somewhat:

Maybe we can also learn from the mistakes of other Western European nations and revise a functioning model which would NOT lead to ghettos or very antagonistic attitudes and laws...

..."On the house" meaning "on location, in the house." ;-)

Just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed the Finland Diary and I'm sorry to see it end. I was fortunate enough to spend a little bit of time in Finland last December with a friend of mine, but I didn't get to see anywhere near as much of the country as I wanted to... this series of entries makes me wish I was still there!

2As I thought, you neglected to mention the problems of racism here...and yes they do exist. What a white wash but I am not surprised. Like minds stick together and avoid the issue in regards people of color or immigrants in general. You saw what they wanted you to see and were blinded by all the "nice" window dressing. On the surface Finland is a nice place, but the ugly truth is that immigrants are NOT welcomed here"

There is also active discrimination against Finns in Finland. Not by the foreigners of different skin color who often are treated badly but by the ruling class of Swedes. For example, only after lots of years yesterday there was a criminal case against a Swede who now is accused of killing his friends on a camping trip. Had he been Finnish the case would have been made a lot of time ago.

"(Norway and Denmark are getting to be quite scary examples with their complete turnaround from tolerance to intolerance)."

Correction; they said they were tolerant before and quit saying that.

"other Western European nations and revise a functioning model which would NOT lead to ghettos or very antagonistic attitudes and laws..."

There are parts of town in smaller towns where most are out of work already. No foreigners were needed for that.

" my first extended exposure to a Scandinavian welfare state, my first experience of such a concerted effort by one small country to remain relevant to a high-tech, "

A scandinavian welfare state would have been Denmark. High-tech - there would have been today the fog-screen on display in Heureka near Helsinki.

Yes, The Tapiola Sinfonietta is a marvellous ensemble. Absolutely world class and should get more international exposure. They would, if it wasn't for the incompetent general manager they have.

Dear me, you aren't real: you seriously mean that our biggest worry are the tomato farmers from Närpes??? Have you noticed that the places that have REAL problems with minorities are those which have guaranteed no rights to them. It is just so very hard to read these things without laughing aloud - they are so archaic, I mean what year is it, 2005 or 1905?

Germany, Holland, France etc. are considered to be a lot more of welfare state than Finland is.
They also have people who are better off than Finns.

Immigrants are treated better than Finns who live in bad areas. No matter where they come from. Unless they eventually become Finns and have to move to bad area. Then they are treated as badly as the Finns.

"I believe you visited our shop today and forgot your blue bag here. I took the liberty to look inside to find your contact information. "

Usually people take wallets and other items found to the town lost&found. Even in towns where they are located in the police station, they are usually honest. Of lost cell phones are sent a note to the owner because the SIM card can be opened lawfully.

Of course it is different if things are stolen. Then they are almost never found.

Please read also Robert Kaisers other article about Finland. For some reason it wasn't part of the blog.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/10/AR2005061001860.html

" I fail to understand why on earth the topic "racism in Finland" should have been handled."

This is a very good example of Finnish racism. When it can't be denied, there is a refusal to talk about it. Soon after, come the lame excuses: "There aren't any foreigners, so we can't be racist."

It is unbelievable, really, and the term "voluntary blindness" describes it well. Finnish racism is a very peculiar, unique kind of racism. Finns see themselves as the downtrodden victims, and also as people who would be on the side of the downtrodden. So it doesn't fit their self-image at all, and they have developed a very fascinating system of denial based on sanctified ignorance - somehow they manage to make their racism a part of being a natural, innocent people. People on this blog make a lot of fun out of the crazy fennomane who is posting all the stuff about Sweden putting Finland down, but secretly they feel the same - at least a little.

It is very unique, and very much sets Finland apart from other civilized nations. It certainly deserves more than one article.

The semantic somersaults are actually pretty funny: Finns are not racist, they are simply intolerant because of ignorance (because there have not been many foreigners, which is of course not true, there have been lots of Swedes and Russians throughout history - but they are white).

So even though intolerance based on ignorance is racism in every other country in the world, in Finland it isn't, you see, because Finns are different, they are simply, uh, a little intolerant because of ignorance.

Now, Americans who are intolerant because of ignorance - they are simply evil. And bad. Just not Finns.

I'm not sure if "Immigrant" talks about racism or xenophobia, but here some thoughts nevertheless.

There's undoubtedly racism in Finland, but I think it is, at least to a some extent, a little different than, say, the kind you might experience in America.

As there has been next to none 'people of colour' (I think that is the current PC word) in Finland until recently, a person who appears to be of different ethnic origin is seen as someone coming from outside to take advantage of the limited opportunities available, that are "rightfully ours" - ie. if they get a job, a Finn misses out. (Not my view, I hasten to add). What I'm trying to say is that what you might have experienced as "racism", has not necessarily always been about the colour of your skin.

To my experience, a good way to gain acceptance and to integrate into the Finnish society is learning the language. Firstly, it shows that you are making an serious effort, and secondly, it makes the communication much easier - the Finns around you get to know you better, and the other way round. Even though many Finns speak English relatively well, it is still tricky to express yourself accurately - and especially with the right tone of voice - in a foreign language.

Learning the language will also help you, on the other hand, learn more about Finnish culture, for example what is considered as polite and proper behaviour and good manners. Which would then help you in job interviews, different kinds of social situations, etc.

I you dont like finnish free education and
so more, you can always go back to mogadisdhu
and live like AFRICANS . lol

It is true that the issue of racism often gets swept under the carpet, but firstly, immigration is an extremely new phenomenon in Finland so you can't possibly compare Finland with most other countries in this respect, and secondly, due to this homogeny there has traditionally been a consensus on most things thus we never developed a culture of debate in the way the U.S. and U.K. have for example. I think your emotions have taken over since you think these people were trying silence you -no, they were just trying to explain where these anti-immigrant sentiments were coming from. I have more knowledge on this than you I'm sure since I have cousins of african descent who were born and raised here since early 70's, also, my adopted brother is of african descent but he came in the 80's (when there still wasn't many people of different race around). It took U.S. and U.K. numerous decades to openly approach this subject so I don't think Finns are particularly racist but change for better should definitely be sought. I can sympathise with you since for years I hesitated to move here with my african-american husband and our children. One of the most significant changes for the better is the increasing number of second generation immigrants, who definitely make some of the worst racists understand that colour is only skin deep. I would still not move outside Helsinki, since smaller more rural places tend to view anything different with far more suspicion, since they are even less accustomed to it. I've always felt very passionate about this fairly common problem, but you just can't compare with countries that have had different races living together for a hundred years or more. Us, it's more like ten years. I think the change has been huge compared to what it was in the 70's. This is why I have a lot of hope!

And if you look at the knee-jerk-anti-foreigner political right-wing parties that have sprung up in various formerly "liberal" countries I think Finland isn't necessarily that wrong in being cautious. However there has been (and still is no) a proper immigration strategy. if you look at the backlog that the Directorate of Immigration had until recently (and still residency permit applications take 6 months or so) it shows they were caught pants down. In the 1970's people were moving to Sweden - who sane person would come here to the edge of Europe? The few brave ones who dared could be handled with the byzantine bureaucracy. However since 1990 the immigration has grown and probably will, however the politicians are still with their heads in the bushes. Now then again government policies don't help much finding a job if you can't perform in the local language - however the government policies would effect some things like they should have more language courses, which would be open for anybody - not if you have to be this and this and that to go on them.

I for one would prefer a homogenous culture. Like Finland or Japan. There are many advantages to this type of culture.
I grew up in one and believe me it is superior to so called PC diversity.

The comments after these articles are so much better than the articles themselves. The articles are mostly just statistics and it is only in the comments that we get some real back and forth discussion from real people to real people. And get beyond the surface(Kaiser spreads himself to thin) down to some real insightfull comments from both Finns and non Finns. But thanks to the Post for offering a place for such discussions. Again for the best on this site read the comments after each story. They are much more informative than the stories themselves.

"Germany, Holland, France etc. are considered to be a lot more of welfare state than Finland is.
They also have people who are better off than Finns."

I disagree with this, but Norway, Sweden and Denmark are better examples for a "real" scandinavian welfare-state than Finland.

There has been studies of the matter.
No need to disagree.
Finland has a low standard of living.
Greece and Portugal have lower. Italy and Spain have higher.

Finns are being blamed for even tony viking halme. A swede they say.

""Germany, Holland, France etc. are considered to be a lot more of welfare state than Finland is.
They also have people who are better off than Finns."

I disagree with this, but Norway, Sweden and Denmark are better examples for a "real" scandinavian welfare-state than Finland."

With experience of many of those, I disagree completely. Finland is a better welfare state, and the quality of life is simply the highest as well.

Actually, Immigrant (and others), Lucian Perkins did interview me and two other Americans living in the Helsinki area for our reactions to Finland as Americans. We were videotaped and that tape was supposedly FedExed to the Post. I'm guessing they won't include the video clips for some reason, as this "farewell" seems really final. But I made it more than clear to him how hard I thought it was to find a job and function normally in this society.

I speak really good Finnish (or so people tell me!), have found a part-time job, and study Finnish and Swedish. I keep trying because that's important. I think the situation won't get better until immigrants give Finns reason to take them seriously: learn the language well, adapt at least some aspects of Finnish culture or lifestyle, be respectful, try to make contacts outside the foreigner community, try to get jobs, further their education at Finnish institutions, and so forth.

Please, just keep trying, and stay positive. It sucks to be in our position, but we have to keep trying if anything is going to be accomplished.

Well, it's not very easy to find a job if you are a finnish person, so it can be pretty hard for a foreigner too...

"Pretty hard" is an understatement, Qsamo; it is many times more difficult for a foreigner, even for one who speaks good Finnish. I read some statistics that, on average, it takes a foreigner between 5 and 7 years to land a job in Finland. Of course, I don't know what kind of foreigner we're talking about (educated vs. non-educated, from Western countries vs. non-Western countries) nor what kinds of jobs (professorships or cleaning floors in the railway station). But suffice to say, as a foreigner I feel the only jobs that foreigners have a real crack at (besides the obvious teach-or-use-your-native-language ones) are ones that either require a very specialized field and high certification/education, or else those that require no education at all.

"if you look at the backlog that the Directorate of Immigration had until recently (and still residency permit applications take 6 months or so)"

It is only because they do not want to do their job not because they could not if they wanted to. Same in lots of offices. They talk on the phone. One who worked with private sector or own-private company work ethics could easily do the job of 20 government employees.

It is possible one has to wait for six months for the money from a social office or for the employment benefit and so on.
Often computers are blamed.

"Well, it's not very easy to find a job if you are a finnish person, so it can be pretty hard for a foreigner too..."

Works like this:
In smaller towns it is personal connections you need to get a job. Someone you already know tells you of a job and then you go there already knowing you will be accepted. Finns who move to such tend to find no job either unless they move within a company or have a lot of education. Many want to live in small towns or cannot afford to move to Helsinki.

Helsinki it is different. Can be you can find a job for 1000 euros a month but it is not enough to pay the rent plus buy food etc. which can be 400 to 500 euros for a studio + 200 for food if made and eaten at home; or not enough to go to work with a car from farther such as Vantaa where the rent is cheaper - but as I never lived there I better not comment more about Helsinki.

Less than 2000 euros a month is not enough for a single guy to have enough money for a family.

http://www.webinfo.fi/index.php?keyword=all&camera=1

In the "related links" this could have been a good addition. Lists the webcams that show town streets etc.

http://www.yle.fi/suominyt/

This has 15 non-streaming cams on one page.

http://www.skitunnelvuokatti.fi/info/webcam_info.htm

Intellectually challenged (thanks, you who told that is pc for stupid) ski in a cave where there is snow all year round.

http://webcam.nu/

Longer list of webcams than the webinfo one.

Catherine the ex-pat: Would it be easier to find a job in Sweden, or in Germany?

It could be hard for a Finn to find a job abroad too, compared to the citizens of the country you are in. At least people know where you are coming from, if you are a US citizen. Try to imagine how hard it is for a Finnish person to explain where s/he's from... let's say for example in USA.

I know, finding a job is not easy, but it's good that you still continue trying and in my opinion it's very important to learn language and (at least) the basic customs well too. So hopefully everything goes well for you. :-)

I enjoyed the series.

Some suggestions:

-- Put a link on the diary to let readers know when you've got a related article that's in the print/online version of the Post. (for instance, your June 10 immigration story!)

-- Return to Finland in the winter.

-- Go next to Bombay or some place like that (to cover all of India in three weeks would be a bit crazy!) to explore how a great city functions.

-- Do your next Diary in Iraq! Or some other Great News Story of the Day place. It would be very interesting to read about how a journalist functions on a day-to-day basis. How stories are decided on, contacts made, travel, etc. (Christian Science Monitor has a interesting -- but, infrequently updated -- Notebook on Iraq). (Chris Allbritten, Time, has a blog, etc.)

Most readers don't appreciate how professional journalism works!

Like many other foreigners living in Finland, I can definitely state that Finland has a massive problem with racism. I also agree that Finns live in denial. They refuse to accept that Finland is any more racist than other countries. This is a massive problem- for the Finns. Racism in Finland- It's extreme it's ugly and it was the real story that unfortunately went un-reported. Shame on the Washington Post. You were took in by the PR!

"imprint on the United States, as Garrison Keillor reminds his listeners weekly"

Where everyone is above the median..

http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/

Not to forget the Italian imprint

http://www.cartalk.com/

Hopefully the now 200 euro public service
imprint will make a great splash??

PS, linkki, siihen "mina vaan tiskaan"??

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/scopes.htm

"You were took in by the PR"

two-party nations and cultures do not understand PR (Proportional Representation).

Huom-Note-PR, in a PR system most
majorities love and respect their
proportionally represented village-idiotes.

However, sometimes they do not do that,
that is when they are really funny.

Anyway, bless the blogs and the true PR-machiavellians.

http://www.itsevaltiaat.fi/flash/fullscreen.html

Is the Median-Free society in Tampere still alive??

PS Sorry, C-SPAN

http://www.c-span.org/

did a thing on that monkey-trial, but the community..

http://www.c-span.org/community/

Washing-the-Post-Hero, or C-SPAN-Hero, which on is above the (friendly) MSM Median??

Considering the PR-village-idiotes??

Thank you so much for giving us this great series of articles! It's been a pleasure to read your experiences of my homeland and really see how foreigners experience Finland. I hope you'll come back some day to explore Finland even deeper - if possible.

Kiitos!

>>This is a very good example of Finnish racism. When it can't be denied, there is a refusal to talk about it.

I very well understand that many want to deny the existence of racism in Finland because it really is pretty abnormal behavior. A normal person just can't understand anyone else would have such ideas. It is quite normal for people to first deny a thing they can't comprehend. In the blog about racism (link pointed above) in Finland Kaiser says:

"Of those, fewer than 25,000 were born in non-white countries whose residents would look conspicuous on the streets of Helsinki."

Because of this small amount, only a very small portion of Finns have ever met anyone with a different skin color. For many, seeing a foreign looking person is almost as if they saw Santa Clause walking on the street in the middle of the summer. It takes time before the Finns accommodate themselves to this new phenomena.

People with racist ideas are usually stupid and talk loud (like we have seen on these blogs about the Swedes) which makes it look like as if there were many of them but there ain't. The majority sees these immigrants only as people who have had a good reason to leave their homeland and move here to a totally different culture.

To Catherine:

I'm a Finn with a University degree, age 52. I have been out of work from November 2002 You're not the only one who can't find a job, the older people are also in a worse situation. It would have been interesting to know what is your education and profession to better understand your circumstances and to estimate if what you say is only due to you not being a native. All the best.

Finland is not in Scandinavia.

The people and language of Finland are not Scandinavian.

Finland is considered a Nordic country, and can also be considered a baltic country. The people and language are Finno-Ugric, which the racist Swedish People's Party considers inferior and less civilized than Swedish. You can verify this by reading the viewpoints of the father of the party, Axel O. Freudenthal.

"The people and language are Finno-Ugric"

More precisely, Fennic branch of the Finno-Ugrics.

"The people and language of Finland are not Scandinavian."

Ethnically Fennic, geographically Fenno-Scandia, but in English Scandinavia usually refers to all Nordic countries (Scandinavia+Fenno-Scandia+Denmark+Iceland).

http://www.swedenbysiv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=1342&pageid=43

Lefty: "But thanks to the Post for offering a place for such discussions. Again for the best on this site read the comments after each story. They are much more informative than the stories themselves. "

There has been many pertinent comments but also many that aren't. It is better not to make any far-going conclusion about Finns in general based on these few comments. These opinions represent only folks who have a fast internet connection and for some reason time to read and write to these blogs.

Someone called Tony The Viking Halme (anti-immigrant populist MP from Helsinki) a Swede. His story is actually quite fascinating.

As a Finnish kid attending a Swedish school in Helsinki, he felt the Finland-Swedes rejected him as Finn and the Finns rejected him as a Finland-Swede. In adulthood, as Finland's heavyweight boxing champion (after his wrestling career in America) both communities claimed him as their own champion. As a True Finn MP he has tried to unite the white communities in Helsinki in his rejection of African immigrants.

His first language is Finnish, school language Swedish and he also speaks English and Japanese due to lengthy periods as immigrant in the USA and Japan. His party the True Finns is a nationalist party with the strongest support among the ethnically Finnish community. During his two years as MP, Halme has been in the headlines for all sorts of reasons, currently he is in the headlines due to his divorce.

Whereas the monoculture argument is valid for much of Finland, Helsinki is becoming more ethnically diverse by the day. Finland Diary has shown a specific interest in the music scene in Finland. Musically we are not that monocultural. If you come back to Finland, it could be worthwhile to check the musical talent among the Russian and Roma minorities here.

And not to forget the long singing traditions among the Finland-Swedish and Sámi communities, of course.

Thank you for that perspective of yours which gave something to think about also for us Finns.

Too bad your series and time here is already Finnished :) Have a nice holiday and do come to the subject after comparing all this to a life American.

I returned back to Finland six months ago after living abroad for seven years and even though I agree that many Finns have problems with foreigners I also think that many foreigners living in Finland have an attitude problem. At the moment I am studying at a Finnish university completing my and most of the people on the course are foreigners. I have been amazed by some of their comments since their main ambition seems to be complaining about everything here in Finland. Food is bad, language is stupid, people dress badly, women don't wear make-up, people are alcoholics, people have bad self esteem, Marimekko is disgusting, people are uptight, clubs are bad, everyone listens to heavy metal, culture is weak, people don't dance, boys don't chat them up, etc etc etc. I have been very disappointed by some of their behaviour and this has resulted to the point that some Finns on the course are avoiding their company. I don't mind constructive critiscism and discussions, but this has gone beyond. I don't consider myself a racist since most of my friends are from abroad and from many different cultures, but my god...some of these foreigners in here, maybe they don't have anything else in common than complaining about Finland.

Someone translate in english, please. Maassa maan tavalla.

"in English Scandinavia usually refers to all Nordic countries"

No it doesn't.

http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq21.html#2.1

Umh, yes, it does.

"Finns are famous for wondering what other people are thinking of them, and we saw this again and again on our trip. "What surprised you the most?" some Finns asked. "What did you like the most?" "What turned you off the most?" In my experience people rarely think in such superlative terms; I know I don't."

They dont care about what is thought of them as long as nobody is wanting to attack them. The place of the country between two colonializer is not exactly the best.

"I returned back to Finland six months ago after living abroad for seven years and even though I agree that many Finns have problems with foreigners I also think that many foreigners living in Finland have an attitude problem. At the moment I am studying at a Finnish university completing my and most of the people on the course are foreigners. I have been amazed by some of their comments since their main ambition seems to be complaining about everything"

So what ?
"here in Finland. Food is bad, language is"

Food is what you make of it. Shops have good quality food. To eat the almost free and subsidized food in university does not mean all food is bad.

"stupid, people dress badly, women don't wear make-up, people are alcoholics, people have bad self esteem, Marimekko is disgusting, people are uptight, clubs are bad, everyone listens to heavy metal, culture is weak, people don't dance, boys don't chat them up, etc etc etc."

I am Finnish and want to complain about the heavy metal part too.
Boys dont dare chat anyone up. You must know how Finnish women are like to understand that. Here the women chat the boys up. Or more properly the rich boys up. Rest have to try their best or give up like I have done.

Also in Finland only in pubs and clubs you are allowed socially to chat people up. Maybe the universities are too simple to tell that to the students.
Foreigners can do what they want. But to Finns the local rules apply. Thing is, men usually consider all foreign women higher up in social scale than they are themselves so do not dare talk to them.

"Someone called Tony The Viking Halme (anti-immigrant populist MP from Helsinki) a Swede. His story is actually quite fascinating.

As a Finnish kid attending a Swedish school in Helsinki, he felt the Finland-Swedes rejected him as Finn and the Finns rejected him as a Finland-Swede."

That was me. They say he is a finland-swede by blood but could only finnish when young.
Got beaten up in school because of that and became a boxer instead of killing himself.

"To Catherine:

I'm a Finn with a University degree, age 52. I have been out of work from November 2002 You're not the only one who can't find a job, the older people are also in a worse situation. It would have been interesting to know what is your education and profession to better understand your circumstances and to estimate if what you say is only due to you not being a native. All the best."

I am a Finn in my twenties. No education. Probably no work for rest of my life either.
Engineers get work anywhere in the world. So do medical doctors. Other professions can mean one has to do manual labor if moving elsewhere. Young people can go to local schools and thus get jobs. Those who move to Finland are often too old.
Anyone under 25 here should go to school. Finns graduate very late from university. So to graduate when 29 would not be considered too old.
Older than 30, depends on subject. Older than 40, forget about it unless it is something that is in demand. Todays newspaper told Finns are finally being recruited to u.s. to work as nurses. Used to be finns went to britain -- from where the nurses went to u.s. So anyone not having a job: 4 years of school and you are a nurse and there is demand in U.K. and U.S.

"Because of this small amount, only a very small portion of Finns have ever met anyone with a different skin color. For many, seeing a foreign looking person is almost as if they saw Santa Clause walking on the street in the middle of the summer. It takes time before the Finns accommodate themselves to this new phenomena."

Big towns. Skinheads.
(some) Small towns. Everybody wants to talk to the black foreigner and buy him beer and women want closer contact.

Of course, there other kinds of small towns also.

"Here the women chat the boys up. Or more properly the rich boys up. Rest have to try their best or give up like I have done."

Ahem... :) I think it is more that Finnish boys/men pay attention only to the good-looking girls/women, and do not give give you the time of day if you are any less than fashion model level... Even the most scruffiest, hygienically challenged ones think they "deserve" no less.

OK, I admit I'm exaggerating, but you get the point ;-)

"We have not been able to do justice to the many bloggers who have given us their comments on diary entries earlier than this one, and I'm sure will be commenting here as well."

You're right about that. I put some of my thoughts on Robert Kaiser and the Finland Diary on my blog, have a look...

http://www.finlandforthought.net/index.php?p=669

Immigrants have problems in ANY country they live. This it not unique to Finland, although learning Finnish language is harder than learning some of the other languages in the world. It will be difficult to get a job in any country, if you don't speak the language. This is NOT racism.

In general Finns are no more or no less racist than people in any other neighbouring country. For example, in St. Petersburg, Russia, recently there's been several near-deadly beatings of African immigrant students. Immigrants and Swedes have been in a complete state of war in some parts of Sweden.

Obviously there are isolated incidents of racism in Finland and if I was an immigrant of color in Finland, I'd be very careful in encouraging that sort of behavior for my own safety by going out by myself late at night on Friday or Saturday when all the drunken morons come out of their holes.

I live in New York City and am married to someone from a minority ethnic background. She's born and raised in the US. While it's unusual for her to experience racism in New York City, arguably the most ethnically diverse city in the world, you drive 100 miles north in New York State to hick country, and it's completely different. I remember on one trip we took to the Finger Lakes wine country region we stopped in a diner next to a church in one of those small upstate towns. We entered the diner and all conversation stopped. It would've been funny to leave a recording device in there after we left: "What's that white person doing with that woman???"

Agreed with Tero Paananen, and with the Finn who talks about some foreigners having an attitude problem. I think it's important to realize that foreigners in and of themselves aren't one group. I dislike some Finns because they're morons. I dislike some Americans because they're morons. I also dislike some foreigners in Finland because they're also morons. None of those facts makes me racist, a xenophobe, etc. (although you might argue it makes me a moron too) :) - I try to see people for traits other than their Finnishness, ex-pat-ness, foreignness, etc.; those don't matter to me so much as their personality and capacity to think.

I will definitely say that I have crossed the paths of many different foreigners when studying Finnish here. I will definitely say that a fairly large number (often women) have an attitude problem about Finland. Please don't think it represents foreigners, or foreign women, as a whole. Some of us, including me, are easy-going, happy to be here, learning the language, and enjoy Finnish society very much. Some of us, including me, are very thankful for the opportunity to try to be a part of your society! :)

Racist pro-apartheid morons can't get their facts straight, as usual.

Liars who dream that Finland will be a part of Sweden use obscure references, from Sweden no less, to try to "prove" their lies. Finland is not a part of Scandinavia, if it were, then Canada is the sister nation of Mexico!

Here are some _proper_ references on the topic. Please ignore the liars. You can tell who they are, because in their twisted minds they don't understand that Finland is not a part of Sweden anymore, and never will be again.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/scandinavian?view=uk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

" I will definitely say that a fairly large number (often women) have an attitude problem about Finland."

Some time ago two (black, male) foreigners were interviewed in a TV documentary, and according to them, Finns _are racists_ because Finns _don't listen rap music_(!).

Thank you Robert and Lucian! I really enjoyed all the articles. Job well done! And please return to Finland for more. Winters can be very nice also and would give more complete picture of Finland.
I agree with Kaari Jae on immigration. All I can say that "Birds of feather flock together" and Sara that "Maassa maan tavalla" could be translated to "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" more litaral translation is "In the country, go with the ways of the county"

"Some time ago two (black, male) foreigners were interviewed in a TV documentary, and according to them, Finns _are racists_ because Finns _don't listen rap music_(!)."

And if Finns did listen to rap music, it would be unjust appropriation of black culture to those two black male foreigners, right? Some people just always find a way to complain about anything. Ignore them.

Actually I can give off my head Paleface and Pikku G as Finnish rappers and I don't know if Bomfunk MC and Kwan are considered hip-hop. And I am a heavy metal man myself ;)

Hi,

I'd like to comment on the immigration issues raised here. I believe that it is true that even in highly multicultural societies different groups tend to form homogenous "ghettos" (some kind of proof of this are the different ethnic areas like chinatowns, indian neighbourhoods, black neighbourhoods etc. that exist in big multicultural cities). Even when the number of immigrants is high, mixing and interaction between different groups and especially between the "original" population and immigrants is relatively rare (for instance, the rate of intermarriage remains disproportionally low). This situation creates tensions that lead to strong anti-immigrant attitudes. I can speak with some authority here as I have lived in London for the last five years and I have noticed that diversity has not removed xenophobic attitudes, which are in fact showing signs of getting stronger and more visible as the number of immigrants increases.
In my view the biggest challenge is not to create a functioning multicultural society but to try and encourage a degree of monoculturalism that would eventually remove some of the tensions created by the forming of immigrant ghettos. This means that the native population should learn to accomodate the influences of the new immigrants and that the immigrants should also attempt to adapt to the ways of the native population. In general, we should all be more tolerant of each other and give everybody a chance in day to day dealings, regardless of their background. Life is too short for ridiculous prejudices and blind belief of superiority.

PS. I know that Finland is highly homogeneous but I'm not sure if it is the MOST homogeneous country in Europe. I wonder what the source for this piece of information is? I'll look it up...

Hi,

I'd like to comment on the immigration issues raised here. I believe that it is true that even in highly multicultural societies different groups tend to form homogenous "ghettos" (some kind of proof of this are the different ethnic areas like chinatowns, indian neighbourhoods, black neighbourhoods etc. that exist in big multicultural cities). Even when the number of immigrants is high, mixing and interaction between different groups and especially between the "original" population and immigrants is relatively rare (for instance, the rate of intermarriage remains disproportionally low). This situation creates tensions that lead to strong anti-immigrant attitudes. I can speak with some authority here as I have lived in London for the last five years and I have noticed that diversity has not removed xenophobic attitudes, which are in fact showing signs of getting stronger and more visible as the number of immigrants increases.
In my view the biggest challenge is not to create a functioning multicultural society but to try and encourage a degree of monoculturalism that would eventually remove some of the tensions created by the forming of immigrant ghettos. This means that the native population should learn to accomodate the influences of the new immigrants and that the immigrants should also attempt to adapt to the ways of the native population. In general, we should all be more tolerant of each other and give everybody a chance in day to day dealings, regardless of their background. Life is too short for ridiculous prejudices and blind belief of superiority.

PS. I know that Finland is highly homogeneous but I'm not sure if it is the MOST homogeneous country in Europe. I wonder what the source for this piece of information is? I'll look it up...

Well, For Finnish figures you can go look at http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi => theres a statistics book called "taskutieto". It has amount of foreigners, amount of EU nationals and amount of 1st languages (mother tongue). Theres also an interesting statistic on the amount of foreigners per years. In 1980 it used to be something like 12.000

Don't know "in Europe" but of the Nordic countries maybe Iceland?

"There has been studies of the matter.
No need to disagree.
Finland has a low standard of living.
Greece and Portugal have lower. Italy and Spain have higher"

When has these studies been made? In the 50's?

"At the moment I am studying at a Finnish university completing my and most of the people on the course are foreigners. I have been amazed by some of their comments since their main ambition seems to be complaining about everything"

Everything except the "free" education I suspect?

Dirke - there was a survey on household purchase power. Finland ranked quite low. There was another one done in Sweden that showed that the average African-American household had better purchase power than a middle-class Swedish household. Its on the net but I can't be arsd to dig it up. ;)

It is really insane how many people keep repeating the "Finns are not racist because there are no foreigners" line.

So racist opinions expressed without the presence of actual living persons of color are not racism?

That makes no sense at all. It is in fact rather idiotic.

Do you think that when these people meet people of color for the first time, their racism is suddenly going to disappear?

Why is racism not racism if the person has not met many people of color before? How exactly does that make it more excusable?

Do these posters think it is impossible to bring children up to be tolerant without actual foreigners in their lives?

If that is so, then why does Finland not allow more immigrants?

Are people of color seen on television considered space aliens or something? Not real people? Fairy tale characters?

And how is Finland's hyper strict immigration policy (only white people admitted in large numbers) not racism?

Finnish people listen to lots of rap music, and make lots of it. Any given day the Finnish Top 10 has both Finnish and foreign made rap music in it.

At the moment, hip hop culture is the most globally relevant youth movement, and hip hop music is made in virtually every country, in hundreds of languages, by members of every race and combination thereof.

Unlike most of the American pop music garbage, hip hop culture invites participation and is truly democratic. It may be the only democratic thing to come out of the United States at the moment.

"Some time ago two (black, male) foreigners were interviewed in a TV documentary, and according to them, Finns _are racists_ because Finns _don't listen rap music_(!)."

Can you cite where you saw this? It sounds so absurd I think you made it up.

"And how is Finland's hyper strict immigration policy (only white people admitted in large numbers) not racism?"

Hmm, I think that the word racism has been somewhat misused here, and xenophobia or pejudice would be better words.

What on earth makes you think "only white people admitted in large numbers"? The biggest group that came "in large numbers" in a short time were Somalians.

Squeeze me? WTF is this Finland doesn't "allow" more immigrants; and "only white people admitted" bullshit? Do you even know what the immigration policy is like? Granted; there are people on 3 different categories; people from Nordic countries; people from other EU countries and then "the rest of the world". Basically to get a residence permit to immigrate, one needs to have a job lined up and the employer a favorable labor opinion from the local employment centre.

A black guy from Sweden is "Nordic" by rules (no permits whatsoever); a black guy from the UK is "EU" by rules (residency to be declared) and a black guy from USA or South Africa is from the "rest of the world". For your information; A white guy from Sweden is "Nordic" by rules (no permits whatsoever); a white guy from the UK is "EU" by rules (residency to be declared) and a white guy from USA or South Africa is from the "rest of the world".

Just happens to be the biggest numbers of immigrants are from the neighbouring countries so that might explain something.

"Dark haired Finn with 'siberian' eyes"

Antti Tuisku, is that you!??! :-)

OK, I wrote the one before Hank W´s post. I got my terminology mixed up. Somalians were refugees, not immigrants.

And why the heck would anybody regardless of race want to immigrate here? Language is totally different, climate isn´t exactly desirable, and unwmployment is high. The only reason we have the recent flow of immigrants is that Russians and Estonians get better pay here than in their homelands.

"And why the heck would anybody regardless of race want to immigrate here?"

Good question. A Finn will ask any immigrant that. Just to make sure they're not insane. I mean high salaries, low taxes, nice climate, easy language, friendly extroverted people... ???

As all Finns have given moving abroad some thought probably - or have cousins in Sweden, Australia or Canada...

I think the most common reasons immigrants have are:
1. "Hot Blonde Syndrome", a Finn comes to their town/college/work or vice versa. Then the blondie gets homesick.
2. "Nookie man" a.k.a foreign coder in a big Finnish company - if not married see 1.
3. "Finlandstruck"... not exactly different from "lapinhulluus" - but thats only for lappland. Some weird article in a newspaper, a documentary, weird language encountered... sblam.

Then theres refugees or people with longer and weirder stories; but generally if you meet a person who has immigrated here the first two reasons usually are the most common.

Musiikkikeskusteluun: Paskimmillaankin hevi on parasta.

Concerning music: Heavy metal is the best thing, even at its crappiest.

>>It is really insane how many people keep repeating the "Finns are not racist because there are no foreigners" line.

And btw who the f**k are you to say that all the Finns are racist? On what ground? Have you made some sort of a study about it or what? I'm not racist and none of the people I know.

>>Are people of color seen on television considered space aliens or something? Not real people? Fairy tale characters?

Do you actually think that people here have something bad to say about the African-American actors? You better see a doctor tomorrow. You obviously have very week self-esteem and can't accept yourself the way you are. Respect yourself and others will respect you too. You sound like some of the Finns who always beg to know what other nationalities think about them. What the f**k does it matter what others think about you. Get a life pal.

So here's my chance to participate in the discussion... I love blogs. Here it goes.

First, this diary has been very interesting to read!

Now, let me confess. I'm a Swede.

Can anyone inform me why I sense this love-hate relation to Sweden? Maybe I missed that day in school, but I didn't realize it before. Of course I've been to Finland and found it a very friendly country.

And please explain to me why it's apparently very sensitive to say that Finland is part of Scandinavia.

PS. Start a kebab kiosk, learn to program computers or to play jazz or what ever productive but just stop whining.

"Ignorance is bliss"...just ignore the anti-swede loonies. They've been dropped on their heads a few too many times when they were babies.

It wasn't until 1970's that the first groups of refugees (from Chile and Vietnam) came to Finland. Since then the largest refugee groups have com from Somalia and these groups started arriving in 1980's and escalating into 1990's. Before this, Finland had been a remote area, with very small amounts "foreigners" living here. This is partly because of our geographic location (large border with Soviet Union/Russia -> no easy access + Baltic Sea, only small borders with northern Sweden and Norway) and limited/poor travelling opportunities.

Since the country was very homogenous, these groups of "odd-looking" people with their "weird" cultural values stood out. The refugees were merely "dumped" here and there were no actual plans on how to handle the situation. Most of the refugees, especially Somalians, were eager to return home as soon as possible. They were offered only basic Finnish studies and no working opportunities in this society that appreciates language skills and high education. Many had no desire to settle, since they missed their home country and wished to return there soon.

However, especially Somalians have been unable to return, but their children have now grown here in Finland and are learning different cultural and social values/skills than their parents. These children are as Finnish as can be, except for their understanding and knowledge on two cultures and the fact that their skin-tone is not pale milky-white whale-bone. Currently over 40% of Somalian, FYR, Iraqii and Vietnamese migrates are under 20-year-old children or young people. And on top of this is the amount of children who are marked as Finnish citizens, but their parents are refugees/migrates.

I would say that the three main issues are:

1. The Finnish society is still in the beginning of the process in opening its borders and minds to "non-Finns". It is not an easy task to sudddenly, in 30 years, to transform from a closed, homogenous and culturally tight-knit society into a multicultura, multiracial and open society. Especially when the transformation was not planned and a lot of improvisation, balancing and live-and-learn -techinques have been essential...

2. The refugees were expected to melt into the society and they were often demanded to turn into "Finns", even though they only wanted to stay true to their origins and return home as soon as possible. This is where the large amount of children is taking a huge role: having multicultural and multiracial school groups, kindergarten groups, sports societies etc. allows the new Finnish generations to become more open to variety and are less centred in their own cultural traditions.

3. Currently the largest groups of migrates come from Russia, Estonia, Sweden and Somalia. Of these, Swedes are warmly welcomed, Estonians are also mostly appreciated, Russians may have some problems because of the war-memories of our grandparents and Somalians have it the hardest. Finns have difficulties in realising this! Usually discussion is about "the migrates", even though the discussion is about the _immigrants_ (i.e. any member of any nation entering Finland and planning to stay here any amount of time as permanently as possible). Finns still need time to learn and understand the differences between immigrates, refugee seekers and people seeking for asylum.

The fact that Finns have a hard time at grasping these divisions simply tells that this whole situation is new. After all, the so-called "African Americans" are still not fully accepted in USA and they _have_ been there far longer than from the 1970-1990's...

>>And please explain to me why it's apparently very sensitive to say that Finland is part of Scandinavia

Ahh, this is all very complicated. You see, many of the Finns don't want to be part of the Fenno-Scandinavia because that is too complicated to explain abroad so they want to be part of the Scandinavia. On the other-hand, there seems to be some folks who say they hate the Swedes because they say the Swedes did something bad to them 200 years ago. As you can see, they really can't make up their minds. Go figure;-)

Sorry, above I misplaced two terms. Allow me to correct myself. :)

"Usually discussion is about "the immigrants", even though the discussion is about the _migrates_ (i.e. any member of any nation entering Finland and planning to stay here any amount of time as permanently as possible)."

I must also apologize for any incorrect use of terms. These migration-related terms are hard enough in Finnish, never mind in English and especially in Politically Correct English. I have understood that the word "immigrant" is unappropriate and insulting, and using e.g. only nationalities would be better. I will not try to understand these cultural norms that are odd to me as a Finn, but hope that I've chosen my words in an understandable manner. :)

I must also thank for this Diary and the amount of work that has been put into it!

>>I must also thank for this Diary and the amount of work that has been put into it!

Yes, this has been fantastic though I would have liked to see more mature comments from the elderly Finnish people. If WP continued to do similar articles about other countries, ouh what a good place to share other than tourist bureau information with people from nationalities you never knew anything about. I think it really could close some gaps and evaporate some of the misunderstandings. Good work WP!

PS! A similar series of articles about Ireland? Been there and love the folk music. They had a severe unemployment problem some years (decades?) back but now they do great I believe. The Finns and Irish immigrants to the USA were both a bit ill treated I believe, something similar with these folks?

Racism is on the rise everywhere. There are too many competing groups for ever shrinking resources. More people means more competition - period.

Some have suggested that racism is not pronounced in the U.S. It **is** among the people. The government allows a huge influx of immigrants every year, not out of concern for their well-being, but out of concern for the well being of corporate/business interests. Immigrants represent a large pool of cheap labour. The National AssoCiation of Resturants, for example, is one of the biggest pro-immigration lobbyists.
On a personal level, I am against further immigration. I've witnessed the quality of life plummet in the last 15 years here. Due to burgeonig population, cost of living, traffic, pollution, crime have gotten out of control. Another effect of population explosion has been wage suppression - a factor that has especially been detrimental to certain minority groups in the U.S.

>Finland's hyper strict immigration policy

good for finland. evidence for the detrimental effects of immigration comes from
sweden, u.s. and netherlands.

>>Currently the largest groups of migrates come from Russia, Estonia, Sweden and Somalia.

Why are Swedes migrating?

For the lower taxes probably.

Some of those marked as "Swedes" though might 1st or 2nd generation emigrants of the 1960-1970 era; for example people retiring "back home" and so forth. Then there is also the fact that Finnish and Swedish companies have been merging the past few years; and not small companies either - Nordea, Teliasonera, Tietoenator, WM-Data etc. So theres a lot of people, management, moving back & forth. And also there is the fact there's been a "free work & movement" policy between all Nordic countries since the 1950's the paperwork is not anything to mention compared to say moing from Russia (or even Estonia)

"It wasn't until 1970's that the first groups of refugees (from Chile and Vietnam) came to Finland."

You should say "after the 2nd World War". Finland had actual refugees in the 1920's more than at present. The Refugees from the Russian revolution; Kronstadt uprising; then the 2nd World War; European refugees like Jews - everyone always remembers the 8 handed back but not the hundreds given a residence permit - then there was the resettling of the Karelians - who were - by Finnish standards - "multicultural" and "multiracial", the Karelian refugees faced "It is not an easy task to sudddenly, in 30 years, to transform from a closed, homogenous and culturally tight-knit society into a multicultura, multiracial and open society. Especially when the transformation was not planned and a lot of improvisation, balancing and live-and-learn -techinques have been essential" in the 1950's. The plight of the Ingrian refugees should also not be forgotten. They had to be "returned home" and after that the relations with the USSR required quite a few to be "returned home" and it was also only after the fall of the USSR the refugees started coming in in greater numbers. Before that; logically; the airplanes landed somewhere else where the asylum seeker would seek their asylum - Finland wasn't a stop for pop-in refugees. Finland was used to organizing the so-called "quota refugees" like the Chileans and Vietnamese and assimilating them and not people showing up from the Moscow train.

After the war Finland was a piss-poor nation. We got no aid - we could not accept Marshall aid and we did not want "Brotherly Aid". Do you people know that we had rationing coupons in use until 1952? The collapse of the agrarian economy and societies had people flocking to Sweden. The brain-drain was so bad that do you know what the current "holiday bonus" in Finland is? Its called "return from holiday money" which was imnplemented so people going to meet their cousins in Sweden - maybe get a job for a couple of weeks - would come back!!! By 1970's the wealth, welfare state and political ideology made a quite novel idea of accepting refugees from far-away places as there wasn't any wars in local areas. Considering the immigration was if not virtually nonexistant, very low in the 1970's even a few hundred Chileans or Vietnamese was a huge number considering the circumstances.

I think people in such country as the USA that is built on immigration and with a history of involuntary immigration cannot comprehend a country where nobody wants to come to - only leave. Apples and Oranges.

"I have understood that the word "immigrant" is unappropriate and insulting,"

Far better than "Alien" IMHO.

Emigrant is a person who leaves his home country - and an immigrant is what he is in his new country.

So an emigrant from Finland is an immigrant in Sweden and an emigrant from the USA is an immigrant in Finland. Simple as that.

Besides which categorizing anyone by their race or ethnic nationality is forbidden as discrimination in Finland.

This has been very interesting blog and new interactive journalism. Hope you'll write more from other countries also. USA is big country and not familiar even for own citizens. How about by train from east coast to west coast or Road 66? From Florida to Alaska?

Oriental Express from Paris to Istanbul? From Kairo to Cap Town? From St. Petersburg to Vladivostok?

Maassa maan tavalla=When in Rome, you do as the Romans do.

Fenno-Ugric languages, included Finnish, are Scandinavian languages spoken by Scandinavian natives for thousands of years.

Denying that was the same if someone claimed that the native languages of America are not American languages.

http://www.ruijan-kaiku.no

If there is any racism in Finland, it's thanks to the welfare state. Why would Finns dislike foreigners? Is it simply because the color of their skin or is it the financial burden they place upon the welfare state?

I have found Finns VERY open to new cultures and new people, once you get past the initial shyness, this becomes very apparent. The *ONLY* complaints I ever hear from Finns about immigrants are the costs involved. Yeah, you can tell them that we need more people for the future, but when there's over 10% unemployment (and rising), it's tough to tell Finns we need even more.

Of course, the left-wing welfare statists want you to believe that Finns are just a bunch of mindless color-hating racists, but this is only to move attention away from the real problem: the welfare state.

I've touched on this here:
http://www.finlandjournal.com/article.php?type=e&id=83

- Phil
http://www.finlandforthought.net

Here we go again - welfare state, the source of all evil...

I'm a "bloody foreigner" living and working in the UK now (which by US standards may be a welfare state, but far from it by Scandinavian/Finnish standards), and racims and anti-immigration sentiments are alive and well here. In the US, I understand the complaints are similar. Another argument that doesn't hold water, IMHO.

I wonder why nobody mentiones LOLA ODUSOGA. She is the former Misss Finland. And she is black.
http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/arkisto/9610/961005/9610050104.html

How many predominately white nations choose a black woman to represent them?

"Some time ago two (black, male) foreigners were interviewed in a TV documentary, and according to them, Finns _are racists_ because Finns _don't listen rap music_(!)."

I saw the same documentary. That was not what they said.

But also in the documentary there were a racist couple who said they don't dare to go to the supermarket, because there could be some black-skinned people in there. And then they were shown walking outside with two big dogs, playing football with other skinheads and inside they had nazi symbols everywhere, in their apartment and tattooed all over them. And the bookshelf had Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf", of course.

Immigrant, racism exist in every country. It's not uniquely Finnish. In a lot of places things are a lot worse than here.

Racism is a problem and it should be tackled. You don't make any suggestions how to change this, just complain. Do you only want to trash Finland or do you want to make a change?

I think it's funny that you blame Finns of all foreigners' problems here. Foreigners are people too and they have the same prejudices like all other people. There is a Finnish saying 'niin metsä vastaa kuin sinne huudetaan'. Roughly translated it's something like 'the forest echoes what you shout at it'. The meaning is that people treat you the way you treat them.

Some foreigners have a bad attitude towards Finland and Finns. That includes you. You don't seem to find anything good to say about Finland although we all know a lot of good things exist here. It's racist of you to say that all Finns are racist. You are very keen to complain and criticize others, but how about looking in the mirror for a change?

Then about racism in America. Americans, like many other nationalities, love their image of their country. They want to see others as racist, sexist, poor or whatever so that they can feel better about themselves. The reality is that the same problems exist in America, often in worse forms than in a lot of other countries.

I remember watching news reports about race riots in Los Angeles in the beginning of the 90s. Rodney King was mugged by white police officers and they were released of charges. Such a thing is very wrong, but there must be more to the race relations than just the mugging since this happening lead to such large-scale unrest and people attacking others just because of how they look.

"nations choose a black woman to represent them?"

"A nation" chooses Miss Finland? Which nation is that?

If a beauty contest is an accurate representation of Finnish cultural attitudes, then everything I have heard about Finnish gender equality must be a lie.

And that someone claims that choosing a black woman to be Miss Finland, means that Finland is not racist, tells me that problems and denial run deep indeed.

From the extremely violent reaction to the suggestions that some Finns may be racist, it seems that there indeed is an unspoken problem and a lot of people would prefer it to remain unspoken.

"From the extremely violent reaction to the suggestions that some Finns may be racist..."

I fail to see any "violence" in the reactions :)

I fully agree "some Finns" are racists. As I can agree that some foreigners are full gits. However blaming all Finns for their government actions and then vice versa is what gets me irked.

I think the problem with Finns and foreigners is something I heard on the news this morning: "the police warn people travelling in Eastern Finland of peddlers stopping cars. they are trying to hawk usually trinket jewellery, resorting to intimidation and violence. the peddlers are of Romanian origin. several groups have been given a deportation order..."

So I wouldn't these kinds of people get any xenophobic Finn to embrace "multiculturalsim", rather the opposite.

I've noticed that some people here complain about Finns being racist. I don't think Finns are any more racist than any other European nation.. Actually even less since we didn't take part in colonialism.

Also, racism is not a white priviledge. Travel to the Middle East or certain countries in Asia and you'll notice this. At least if you learn the language. In Finland there are a lot of immigrants, white, black and Asian, who have a bad attitude towards Finns. They don't want to learn the language and disrespect our culture and manners. If one gets into troule with such people, it doesn't always mean it's the Finn's fault. Also, in Finland we have legislation against discrimination. If someone is discriminated they can get justice. This is rather unusual in countries outside the Europe and the US. I'm not saying there aren't problems and Finns with a bad attitude, but the question is more complex than that.

Sometimes the cultural differences just are too huge to overcome. For example the attitude towards sexuality is very different in Finland and in Muslim countries. According to Islam, one shouldn't have sex before marriage. However, in Finland it's usual and considered natural. This is why some people consider our nation corrupted and do not have respect for us, which also shows in their behaviour. In Sweden and other European countries there have been cases, in which a father has killed his daughter because the girls wanted to live the European life including sex. Search the internet for example for Fadime Sahindal. Who is right and who is wrong? The question is more complex than the color of your skin.

Finns racists? Well, back in my youth growing up in a small town in southern Finland a guy could get clubbered half-dead at wiener stand just for being an out-of-towner. Didn't matter what color, race or sexual orientation. Once 3 dark-skinned Dutch guys coming to town with a circus group decided to visit a local watering hole after the show, the hit on a few local ladies. Soon after they were chased out of town by a 50-strong group right after the big-top had been burned to crisp. Yeah, those were the days alright...

Now, I've grown up a little since then, but in general I doubt much has changed in 15 years regarding foreign relations in Finland. Oh, we are not hiding anything. Those with ill-thoughts about foreigners will show it openly after a few beers. And I am sorry for our Asian and african friends, you need to learn the language quick! The same I would if I lived in China.

"Those with ill-thoughts about foreigners will show it openly after a few beers."

And on this blog:

"these kinds of people get any xenophobic Finn to embrace "multiculturalsim", rather the opposite."

"They don't want to learn the language and disrespect our culture and manners."

It seems people are quite happy to generalize and genuinely feel that this is the right thing to do, and it means that Finns are not racist (!!!) and foreigners living in Finland are to blame for any hardships they endure.

All foreigners are happily grouped together, too - it seems these people quite earnestly think if a Somali in Helsinki is treated badly, that is okay because a Romanian near the Eastern border did something they don't like.

I think if there was any doubt that Finns are racist, we can now lay those doubts to rest.

"And please explain to me why it's apparently very sensitive to say that Finland is part of Scandinavia."

For the same reason it is very "sensitive" (whatever that means) to say that Chinese are the same as Japanese. IT IS A LIE.

I've sat in a bar in Cleveland with a Finn who wasn't even that drunk, who explained that somehow it was Sweden's fault that people in Finland are no longer "allowed" to use the word nigger.

It was quite fascinating, really.

He kept repeating "Now, I'm not a racist, but..." - followed by a string of the most primitive racist slurs I have ever heard out of the mouth of someone with an alleged university education.

"F inland ranked quite low. There was another one done in Sweden that showed that the average African-American household had better purchase power than a middle-class Swedish household. Its on the net but I can't be arsd to dig it up. ;)"

That did not origate from Sweden. There was such comparison in other european countries before someone there noted the same thing about theirs.
The african-american is better off than the average european and thus better off the average finn who is worse off than the average european.

"There has been studies of the matter.
No need to disagree.
Finland has a low standard of living.
Greece and Portugal have lower. Italy and Spain have higher"

When has these studies been made? In the 50's?"

Latest data. Whereas Finland has higher gdp also the prices and taxes are high so Finns have less and older cars than italians, smaller houses than spaniards and so on.

"I know that Finland is highly homogeneous but I'm not sure if it is the MOST homogeneous country in Europe. I wonder what the source for this piece of information is? I'll look it up..."

Maybe they been looking around. I looked the net and norway and scotland had about the same amount of foreigners as finland. Finland consists of different tribes originally. Of the not mixed Finns one can see the difference quite easily as the difference is as high as between say a dutchman and a frenchman. Do not know about the other countries how different their inhabitants look from each other.

"although learning Finnish language is harder than learning some of the other languages in the world. "
Not really.

''''''
"if I was an immigrant of color in Finland, I'd be very careful in encouraging that sort of behavior for my own safety by going out by myself late at night on Friday or Saturday when all the drunken morons come out of their holes."
''''''''''''
More trouble can be expected for the black. Asian are smaller and they have less trouble. A lot less women too. Those coming from asia better bring their wives.
Sometimes seen when one of them calls another one and soon there is lots of them in one place after a fight has emerged.

''''''''''''
""Here the women chat the boys up. Or more properly the rich boys up. Rest have to try their best or give up like I have done."

Ahem... :) I think it is more that Finnish boys/men pay attention only to the good-looking girls/women, and do not give give you the time of day if you are any less than fashion model level... Even the most scruffiest, hygienically challenged ones think they "deserve" no less.

OK, I admit I'm exaggerating, but you get the point ;-)"
'''''''''''''
No the Finnish men often go speak to the ugly women as they feel they are not worthy or have a chance with the model-level ones. Low self-confidence is common.

Sure, Finland has a problem with racism - anyone, name a country that doesn't. But to accuse a country of being especially racist is a bit much. There are not as many (reported) hate crimes in Finland as in some countries. The thing is, as everywhere in the world, that the better you are educated on things the less prejudices you have. The conversation seems to get absurd. When different cultures meet/collide, misunderstandings are bound to happen, regardless of race.

I've sat in a bar in Cleveland with a Finn who wasn't even that drunk, who explained that somehow it was Sweden's fault that people in Finland are no longer "allowed" to use the word nigger.

It was quite fascinating, really.
--
And yet another finlandswede making things up.

All foreigners are happily grouped together, too - it seems these people quite earnestly think if a Somali in Helsinki is treated badly, that is okay because a Romanian near the Eastern border did something they don't like.

I think if there was any doubt that Finns are racist, we can now lay those doubts to rest.
--
And yet another.

"Finns are Racist".
I once heard a white American use the n-word. Naturally, my conclusion is that 'Americans are racist'. Please.

Scandinavia, Finno-Ugric... Blah blah. Are you people seriously still, today, in this world, obsessing about such matters? What is your damage!?

It's not that Finns have a "love-hate" relationship with Sweden, most Finns actually couldn't care less about Sweden.

What we don't understand is why there are a few people, who are slow on the uptake, who keep spouting garbage that there is strong Swedishness in Finland, and that Finland is a part of Scandinavia, and other bulls#¤T.

"Scandinavia, Finno-Ugric... Blah blah"

Hmm, ignorant and racist. You must be a member of the Swedish People's Party, the corrupt racist snakes actively hurting Finland.

What?! You conveniently misunderstand my point, "Destroy Aprtheid". The point was that people still worry about their ethnic heritage too much for their own good when there are so many more important things to worry about than where your bloodlines come from. Or did I misread you? You must have been kidding?

I've really enjoyed your Finland Diary-- its like a virtual field trip. I followed your series of articles about your trip to Central Asia awhile ago and found it fascinating too. I hope to see the two of you doing more of this in the future. What other countries are you interested in?

Here is a piece from an interview of an African-American who has lived in Finland over 40 years:

"How has the attitude towards foreigners changed over the past 40 years in Finland?
In the 1960s there were only handful of foreigners in Helsinki, let alone in rest of Finland and for this reason people were genuinely curious about me. Once, back then, I was on a tram in Helsinki and a little old lady came up and asked me shyly if she could touch my hair! It was very innocent. I didn't come across any overt racism in the 1960s - people were enthusiastic to meet foreign people.
Now there are lot more foreigners in Finland, around 100,000, so people are more used to them and not so fascinated anymore. It is easy to blame people who look different from you for all sorts of problems and I would say that there is more intolerance in Finland now than forty years ago. Still, I think Finland is quite a tolerant country. I have only experienced one racist incident here. That was a few years ago when I was getting off a bus and a group of skinheads surrounded me saying stuff like, 'Heil Hitler!' and they threatened to beat me up. I responded to them in German and commented on how poor their German pronunciation was, managing to get out of the situation unharmed."

You can read the whole interview here (Sorry, I don´t know how to make it clickable):

http://www.6d.fi/portrait/page.2005-05-25.9814297803

Oho, it turned out clickable by itself.

So, are Finns racist? - No. Are there racists in Finland. - Yes. There are racists who hate Africans without ever meeting one and then there are like me, who only hates Swedes and Russians for very good reasons, loves the Chinese and tolerates the rest.

I'll try something new here: finger-pointing. Did you know that in Sweden everybody is racist. Yeah, most of today's neo-nazi carbage comes from Sweden, they have highly organized hate-groups etc. They are way more racist there. Comoon, they are not only racist but gay as well. It's true, ask Linda Lampenius!

I find it very amusing how that one guy, going on about how Finland is "super racist", is only replying to any weak posts he finds, and totally ignores the valid ones.

Cheers.

As the discussion is still lively I would add that these "Fennomans" are really a curious minority, that really seem to keep up the language war of the early 20th century. Like museum pieces to the mainstream society. I could understand - though not approve - the anti-immigrant, Tony Halme type of thinking, but these pure misguided souls seem to be angry about the first Swedish crusade to Finland in 12th Century. It is more funny than sad and we really talking about a minuscule group of eccentrics without any real influence. But they are loud though and are known to have invaded discussion forums before. Dear me, what about the Reformation or the Iron Age? Should we stuck with bronze??

Talk about the "curious minority", what curious minority is that who insist that Finns everywhere in Finland learn their useless dialect of Swedish, which is spoken in only 3% of the country?

What kind of "curious minority" is represented by a political party whose father was a stinking racist who publicly wrote that Finnish people are inferior to Swedes?

I wanted to share this beautifully written article from Minnesota Public Radio about the difficulties Finns experienced upon moving to America.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/199706/10_losurem_finnpoor/

Finns themselves had to put up with a lot of racism here in the United States, but these days, the nearly 700,000 Americans who claim Finnish descent are solidly middle class and are well represented in American society in industries such as engineering, architecture, medicine, and the arts. This was once not the case! It was a struggle here. My hope is that the immigrants/refugees in Finland will do as well as the Finns have in the United States. Indeed, the Finnish-Americans here have probably only made their longest strides in the last 30-40 years when there was greater access to a free or subsidized higher education for all. They've often made their mark in careers such as engineering and building where skill counts greater than ethnicity or social contacts. If you ask any older Americans today (I hate to say it, but they're mostly Americans of Swedish or Anglo heritage) they often reflect some of the most negative stereotypes that were once attributed to Finns. Some of the remarks that have been made to me upon sharing my Finnish heritage (no kidding) have been:

* Oh, you're Finnish? I grew up with Finns. My mother said she'd tar and feather me if I ever went out with a Finnish girl because they've a reputation for being "fast."
* Are you a communist?
* Are you one of those holy-rollers?
* Are Finns white people? (From a 67 year old bilingual Swedish-American). I heard they were really mostly "oriental" with a little Swedish thrown in.
* Oh, I used to know a Finnish (American) guy. He was really weird. It's a weird bunch, isn't it?
* Oh, Finns. My grandpa used to say they were the "niggers" of the North.
* Then there was the Norwegian-American I once dated who told me if I ever met his grandpa not to tell him I was Finnish.
* Oh, I knew some Finns once. They were very, very poor. All the Finns I knew were very, very poor.

If you think I'm making this up or exaggerating I assure you I am not. As a fairly young person (thirties) I have to say that my generation has really not had to put up with many of these slanderous remarks. I can see, however, how generations above me had to.

Famous Finnish author Arto Paasilinna recently wrote a column for the Kaleva newspaper where he criticises the government policy of compulsory Swedish and the racist attitudes of the pro-apartheid political groups.

Now the Swedish political party has written to Mr. Paasilinna to demand that he print a "correction" of his opinion, otherwise they threaten to ban his books from Finnish schools.

What kind of political party does book-banning, threatening, and blackmail? Hint, it has four letters, starts with a 'N' and ends with 'i.'

Neil Hardwick said it: "There's nothing wrong with Finland except food, weather and people."

AUTHOR:
EMAIL:
IP: 194.157.20.245
URL:
DATE: 06/13/2005 01:21:22 PM

referring to pro-apartheid parties

Jenni, thank you. It was good reading. Well written. Recently there was a documentary on Finnish TV about one mining town that was mainly inhabited by Finns and Irish. According to that documentary (American one) one Finn was also lynched during those days.

"Finns are Asian" has been a very cherished opinion in many places. I knew about those plans to deport Finns from US, but that was 80 years ago. That is why it is strange that you have been said things like that still today. But why would I wonder, it was only three years ago when a big Swedish newspaper had a front page story titled: Surprise! Finns are not Asian. That was just after some gene research results had come out.

Not that I would have anything against being labelled as Asian.

Jenni

I know these events in a general way, but the story in the link was very interesting. Lots of Finnish people moved to America because they were very poor and some of them left to avoid joining to russian army (See links http://www.country-studies.com/finland/the-russian-empire.html and http://www.histdoc.net/history/keisarik.html if you are interested) You can also google with keywords february+manifesto+1899.

I can also imagine that Finnish people have heard comments you wrote, but I thought that these kind of comments have been history for a long time now.

It is a pity that true discussion here has ended and people mainly argue now.

In my mind Finland is no more racist country than any other country in Europe. Is it less then? I cannot tell. Some Finnish habits may cause misunderstanding with the foreigners. Someone wrote that she felt insulted when people just talked when she came to the room and the did not notice her at all. At first she though it was racism but soon realized that just the way Finns behave.

The company I work for is surely not racist. We are 24 of us and 8 of them are foreigns. Not all are europeans and not all even have a white skin. I work in an IT company and we employ people who can do the job; Finn or foreign it does not matter as long as s/he can do the job.

My latest comment lost somewhere, so I have to rewrite it.

Concerning the february manifesto, many finnish artist fought their own "war" against it. The most well known is probably song "Finlandia" by Jean Sibelius. Yes, it is originally a protest song for freedom!

http://www2.helsinginsanomat.fi/english/archive/thisweek/45071999.html

"Jean Sibelius's Finlandia has been heard in contexts its author could never have dreamed of. When Biafra was fighting for its independence in Africa, the piece rang out as its national anthem. When Chinese students demonstrated in Beijing a decade ago, they were heard to sing it."

The language apartheid is a big problem here in Finland and needs to be stopped.

Very funny Jenni.

I remember on my first trip to US about 10 years ago, I went to see an NHL game and sat next to a very nice middle aged man, with whom I chatted for the entire game.

He asked some very curious things about Finland from me. The one that stuck in my mind was "Do they have running hot water in hospitals?" I didn't know if I should laugh or cry :)

The funniest thing I've been asked is "Do girls wear bras in Finland?" Other Americans have wondered whether we have cars.

Although I would hate to reinforce the belief that most Americans are geographic idiots, I have found that many Americans have no idea where Finland actually is, and if they do, assume that it is a "Scandinavian" country like Sweden, Denmark or Norway or a part of "Russia". I have found the most satisfactory short answer (because likely they don't really care) is that Finland is culturally rather Scandinavian and Lutheran due to the proximity and historically belonging to Sweden, but linguistically non-Scandinavian.

I would have to say that most of the bias and stereotypical prejudices against Finns occured in states that saw most of the immigration: Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Washington, Oregon, and small parts of New York and Ohio. I am proud to report that most states with Finnish settlement are "blue states" as opposed to the red Republican states. Finnish-Americans remain steadfast supporters of labor unions. Unfortunately, I've seen many Finns who've "made it" for a couple of generations become unabashed conservatives, too.

Some parts of Florida (Lantana, Fort Worth) have more recent immigration of Finns than those in the upper midwest. I've heard it said that many of these Finns came in the 1950's to flee the taxation policies of the emerging welfare state. Since I've never met any of these Finns, I hesitate to say any more about that. They do, however, publish a Finnish language newspaper still to this day.

African-American household had better purchase power than a middle-class Swedish household.
***
That did not origate from Sweden. ***

Well, yes it did, atleast I think its this one;
Fredrik Bergström
Robert Gidehag
EU versus USA
Stockholm, 2004
http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/

This just in from something called the Swedish Research Institute of Trade (HUI): Your typical Swede is less well-off than all but the poorest Americans. Measured by after-tax income and adjusted for purchasing power, the authors of this study argue, the Swedish people are just scraping by. Ranked by this measure, Sweden would come in lower than any of the 50 states -- even Mississippi. Viewed through this prism, the median income of Swedish households would amount to just 68 percent of the U.S. median -- two points lower than the median African-American household income, which comes to 70 percent of the U.S. average. "Black people, who have the lowest income in the United States, now have a higher standard of living than an ordinary Swedish household," the HUI economists assure us.

But even the authors of this study admit to a methodological flaw: They have declined to factor in the value of the social goods provided to Swedes by the world's most comprehensive welfare state. That includes free health care and education, comprehensive early education, fully subsidized senior care, paid leave for the parents of newborns -- you get the picture. These aren't exactly trivial household expenses in the United States; many American families can't afford them at all. Not surprisingly, it turns out that the HUI is a retail trade lobby -- an organization that looks longingly at all the money lavished on immunization programs and wonders why those funds aren't freed up so that the Swedes can buy more Nokias.

When I went first time in my life to swim in Helsinki Stadium, I saw for the first time a black man taking sun, I thought it pretty odd that he wanted to tan, because he was already so tanned. I was then a young naive "maalainen" country person. This happened in mid 50s.

When I went first time in my life to swim in Helsinki Stadium, I saw for the first time a black man taking sun, I thought it pretty odd that he wanted to tan, because he was already so tanned. I was then a young naive "maalainen" country person. This happened in mid 50s.

I hope I'm not "hogging" this board here. I would not be surprised if the average African-American household has more "purchase power" than the average Swedish or Finnish family. I don't know how to explain this phenomenon without giving you the wrong impression about African-Americans and perpetuate certain stereotypes there are about African-Americans here and abroad. We could go to much length describing the social, cultural and economic repercussions slavery, injustice, repression and the era of discrimination and "Jim Crow" laws have had upon African-Americans. Since the only real experience I have in this world has been my own, I hope you don't mind my story.

I've shared with you my Finnish-American heritage and rural upbringing. My father was the first generation to attend university. Even so, we did not thrive. We had a large family, and there were many "lean" years in which we did not do very well. We had each to our name 1 or 2 pairs of shoes, maybe 2-3 pairs of slacks and perhaps 4 or 5 shirts, many of which were hand-sewn or hand-me-downs or ordered from the Sears catalog. No real jewelry or beauty parlor trips--my mom learned to cut hair and do home perms. We burned wood from our forest to cut down on fuel oil costs. We grew our own vegetables and canned and kept a few animals for our own consumption. We did, however, have plenty of good food, fresh air, books to read from the local library or bookmobile, and good friends. "Vacations" were trips out of town to visit relatives. No ski trips (or skis, for that matter) or money for musical instruments or for an allowance. However, I never for one moment considered us "poor" in any way. We studied and some of us in our famly won academic scholarships and those of us that didn't win any had to make our own way.

When I was 17 I headed to the local large city of Minneapolis to look for work. I went to stay with a cousin in North Minneapolis' Jordan neighborhood, which was at one time "Finn Town." I lived next door to my aunt and uncle and within walking distance to several other relatives. The neighborhood had become very poor and further blighted by the raging crack use of the mid 1980's. Most of the Finns had moved out. At one time there were three Finnish churches, a Finnish restaurant, and many other Finnish-owned businesses in this neighborhood.

The neighborhood was on a direct busline to downtown Minneapolis and a decent place to live as far as logistics go. I had no car so the more middle-class suburbs were out of reach.

I remember the shock riding the city bus for the first time upon stopping at the inner city projects. I knew that the African-Americans were "poor" and often were members of gangs. I had never met a black person before. But wow, I could not believe their finery. Some wore big thick real gold chains around their necks and big diamond earrings that looked pretty real to me. Designer clothes and shoes! Big thick plush real leather or mink coats. Hairstyles in every imaginable shape and color!

What? Was somebody fooling me that black folks were poor? They looked richer than any folks I'd ever met before!

It took some time to realize that it was part of the African-American culture to want to "look" the part of being economically upwardly mobile whether or not they actually were. Whereas the Finnish culture was more about being clean and neat with your clothes and person and concentrate on more practical matters such as having a sound roof over ones head and good wholesome food to eat. Next would be getting an education, and the last priority would be what would be considered "finery and flippery."

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule, as my former African-American sister-in-law's family is also very practical in this area.

I am not excusing this phenomenon to justify why Finns in the United States have "made it" while African-Americans have not. If I had an answer for that, perhaps I could also solve all the other problems on this rock we call earth.

I think the issue is not African-Americans vs. Finns; but rather the issue of Apples & Oranges. The reason African-Americans came up is that they are - according to the survey - the poorest group. As the survey states, an average Swedish family is lower than this average poorest group. However as the survey doesn't count certain costs, it is... Apples & Oranges. So your average American might find it bizarre that while they complain of their so-called "high" taxes and the "expensive" gas - we're paying 17% VAT on food and gas $5 a gallon and laugh at that. (We can, as Sweden, Denmark and Norway have higher taxation.)

BTW I think in Finland you find the people showing off their bling-bling and having big cars and so forth to keep up the appearances. Youth gangs aren't really there. Theres biker gangs though (a Nordic phenomenon also).

ignorant phil-

>>color-hating racists, but this is only to move attention away from the real problem: the welfare state.

what is the source of anti-immigrant sentiment in the u.s. then? no welfare-state here, it is as individualistic as any country can be! i am staunchly against more immigration into the u.s. as i've seen quality of life rapidly decline from massive congestion. immigrants also tend to come from very conservative, religious countries
that can prove to be an impediment to social progress as we've seen with the high voter turn out for "dubya" among the latino population. if i see another church, or another immigrant giving me a hateful look for holding my girlfriend's hand (i am a lesbian), i will explode!! lucky for us, my girlfriend is western european and we are moving soon to a non-primitive part of the world.

Finland's president is socialist and she is favorite among the voters in the next presidential elections.

Finnish people have very socialist mindset,too.

When the state dictates every Finn to study Swedish those Finns who complain about it and want freedom of choice are called faschists by the fellow-Finns.

I wouldn't say a "socialist" mindset. there is a hig regard of conformity. The oddball individuals are not as readily accepted. Then again its the same in all countries. i mean a rollerblading man in a pink tutu would probably raise a fe eyebrows in some midwest town, but not in San Francisco. Same in Finland - only the whole country is a bit of a "small village". In helsinki the rollerblader might raise a few eyebrows - from the tourists ;)

1) Fennomans see huge government-supported difference between finland swedes and finnish finns.
2) Some fumble with their terminology and call that _racial_ discrimination. Race has not been a real issue for the last 50 years. Elder generation didn't really get the difference between a race and a culture, but how long you have to raise the hatchet for that? You can be a finland swede too, without altering your genes. It's just about choosing your primary language, although we usually are raised to prefer one.
3) It's a culture.
4) For foreigner, the difference between finland swede and finnish finnish cultures are really really small. That's why we are considered monocultural nation. Differences between finland finns and saami for example, are more pronounced, but they're so small minorities that they don't yet count to make us really multicultural.
5) So I wonder what kind of bitching we would get if we had larger or even more differentiated cultures amongst us and government would acknowledge them.
6) Learning to accept swedes amongst us is a first, compulsory lesson for surviving in multicultural world and good it is. Keep them! Support them! You have to learn lots of things you don't want to learn. Fennomans move on.
(Sorry for those 'them' and 'us' separations, they're just to make a point. Finland swedes are for me us, only those of us who sometimes switch into speech I can't get much out. I Always were bad in swedish :), suffered from it too, but nowadays I appreciate it.)

oh, and if someone is still interested, you can compare this language issue to Windows vs. Mac -wars in computerwelt. Percentages and stereotypes are about equal (those effeminate, homosexual better-than-thou mac-users/swedes).

DNA research, of course, has revealed that we Finns are ever so sligthly more Asian than many Europeans.

Which is fine by me: I am happy to be Asian and proud to be a nigger of the north, too. At least that puts distance between me and racist, ignorant, right-wing assholes.

you can compare this language issue to Windows vs. Mac -wars in computerwelt
-
No, you can not. You choose freely if you buy a mac.
http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/keskustelu/thread.jspa?threadID=2857&tstart=30
To Vaasa University there is the same amount of places for the finnish and the swedish speaking law students. Of the population 5% are swedish speaking.
Equality at work.
A person who looked up to the viking was Adolf Hitler. His famous SS Viking fought bravely against the Russians.
http://www.wiking.org/
Adolf Hitler ended his life. How many days Finland has left is not known. But surely the fascination of the viking/swedes will end it, too.

Well, yes it did, atleast I think its this one;
Fredrik Bergström
Robert Gidehag
EU versus USA
Stockholm, 2004
---
That was said already many many years ago.

When it first occurred they had passed the average european.

"That was said already many many years ago.

When it first occurred they had passed the average european."

Originated in central europe or america, dont know which was first.

"4) For foreigner, the difference between finland swede and finnish finnish cultures are really really small. That's why we are considered monocultural nation. Differences between finland finns and saami for example, are more pronounced, but they're so small minorities that they don't yet count to make us really multicultural."
-
Not really that small. Sami live in the common Finnish culture but the Swedes have their own.

Sami are very friendly people. Unlike the Swedes.
Sami do not get huge government subsidies. Unlike the Swedes. Sami do not have their own universities or tv channels or go to universities in many times the proportional number of the Finns. Unlike the Swedes.
If you want to make a comparison, Swedes a nose-up like Kerry, Sami friendly like Bush.
http://www.enterprisenews.com/articles/2005/06/11/news/opinion/opinion01.txt
(well, the sami are not that well-off)
Swedes are like Tyson, Sami like Ali.

"6) Learning to accept swedes"
"Keep them! Support them!"

Support Your Local Criminal Bosses !

"what is the source of anti-immigrant sentiment in the u.s. then? "

The U.S. is a welfare state, but on a much smaller scale than Finland's obviously. The anti-immigration folks in the U.S. have the same complaints as the ones in Finland - costs. The costs might be much smaller in the U.S. for each individual immigrant, but the U.S. has a hell of a lot more total immigration.

"if i see another church, or another immigrant giving me a hateful look for holding my girlfriend's hand (i am a lesbian), i will explode!"

Along with the idiots who don't want immigration, there's just as many who don't want lesbians. How do you feel about that?

"2) Some fumble with their terminology and call that _racial_ discrimination. Race has not been a real issue for the last 50 years."

Well it is not the Finns who found the Swedes are lesser race but the other way around.
http://www.sci.fi/~eiry/alersuom.html
Still the younger tend to say Finns are a lesser race and call Finns a lot of names.

"5) So I wonder what kind of bitching we would get if we had larger or even more differentiated cultures amongst us and government would acknowledge them."

It is not the culture but all the bossing around: You all learn _our_ better and finer language so we, who go to universities in large numbers and we who do not allow you such education, can boss you around in our own language.

There is no "bitching", the choice of word does not represent the matter, against any other culture in Finland there is no silent opposition because no other culture is against Finland.

"But even the authors of this study admit to a methodological flaw: They have declined to factor in the value of the social goods provided to Swedes by the world's most comprehensive welfare state. That includes free health care and education, comprehensive early education, fully subsidized senior care, paid leave for the parents of newborns -- you get the picture."

Sweden I do not know about but one of the notable things in Finland is that women are well included in the social state and its programs whereas men are not. I suspect that it is about the same.
Men have to be on their own. A male goes to social office, gets no money, no apartment. A female goes to social office, gets money, gets apartment. A male is married, takes money home, female decides where it goes. A female is married, gets the money she earns, gets the money the male earns.
Health care is about the same for both in Finland. No money - no health care either.

"I have found the most satisfactory short answer (because likely they don't really care) is that Finland is culturally rather Scandinavian and Lutheran due to the proximity and historically belonging to Sweden, but linguistically non-Scandinavian."

Thing is, the "lutheranism" is only evident in Finland. Maybe better would be to say, culturally Finland is more like anglo-saxon countries, but the state institutions are more like in the scandinavian countries. Then note about the high tendency to kill themselves might be mentioned.

Fennomans move on.
(Sorry for those 'them' and 'us' separations, they're just to make a point. Finland swedes are for me us, only those of us who sometimes switch into speech I can't get much out. I Always were bad in swedish :), suffered from it too, but nowadays I appreciate it.)
-------------------
So you were bad in your native language of swedish.

Dear all,

I would first like to apologise for the incoherent ramblings of my Finnish country (wo)men who seem to treat this blog as the right place to vent their idiotic anger about age-old language etc. issues...

I would like to thank the writers and the (sensible) commentators in this blog for making the Finland Diary an interesting read over the last couple of weeks.

I admit some of the views from the authors represent more a 'clean' view of Finland and the bad sides perhaps were not presented well or realistically enough. Otherwise it's been great and varied.

Thanks again.

"what is the source of anti-immigrant sentiment in the u.s. then? "

The U.S. is a welfare state, but on a much smaller scale than Finland's obviously. The anti-immigration folks in the U.S. have the same
-
Do not be so sure of that. You have lower taxes in U.S. but the amount payed by invidual can be higher than in Finland because the income is a lot higher. Add to that the fact that things are cheaper there:
you could actually have more of welfare state there. Not proportionally of the taxes but in real terms.

It seems the entire blog has been taken over by one individual with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Not the only OCD person in Finland, but boy, did they take advantage of what they thought was a global audience (in the process probably losing all but one or two hardiest readers).

The positive outcome has been that at least my high school age daughter now sees anti-Swedish language sentiments as more uncool than before.

Personally I feel a little embarrassed and caught out by this. I had been worried about being embarrassed by some fellow Finn or another, but this was not what I expected at all.

To Pauli, or whoever you are: I understand that you feel bad and that for some reason you are very disappointed in your life. What you are doing is not helping you. It is an addictive, compulsive behavior. You need help. Nobody is out to get you. Please stop now.

..and the person is you. You use english and finnish names to justify the unjustifiable.
Now you also are using the same rhetoric your parents did a while ago in your desire to get rid of the Finns.

http://www.sci.fi/~eiry/alersuom.html
About the racism in Finnish.
http://www.google.fi/search?q=uppsala+racial+biology&hl=fi
About the racial biology in Sweden and Uppsala university, from 20s to 60s.

Yup!
It´s the same here as well, we used to follow these discussions during english-training here at my work, a 100% finnish speaking company in the middle of Finland and we could not belive our very eyes, most of us had not even heard about "The Finnish assembly" or "EIRY" but now we are thinking of a way to get them removed from the surface of the earth and have their websites shut down.
It must be a crime to spread such hatred against innocent fellow citizens who´s only flaw is they have a different mother tongue. Shame on you!

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/25802/format/html/displaystory.html
"After Levin Dombrowsky's body was dissected in an anatomy class, his skull was tagged "Jew" and added to a collection of human remains that scholars believe may have been used for racial research.

This week, 126 years after the 25-year-old immigrant hanged himself in his jail cell, Dombrowsky's skull was buried at a Jewish cemetery in southern Swede"

http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/2729.html
"He was habilitated for psychiatry and neurology in 1903 in Uppsala, and in 1915 also for racial research and racial biology.

Lundborg was extremely negative to Jewish people, and strongly involved in the ideology of racial hygiene that evolved from the beginning of the twentieth century."

http://www.susanohanian.org/show_commentaries.html?id=280

"It is hardly surprising that National Socialism in Germany would embrace the concept of eugenics. But from the beginning, there was more to Nazi support than the movement's political appeal or the promise of its social consequences. As is clear from the exquisitely structured and thoroughly reliable accounting of "Deadly Medicine," the stage was set for the emergence of a drive toward a uniquely German form of eugenics long before the average citizen had ever heard of Adolf Hitler. It was based on seemingly scientific evidence derived from the studies of highly regarded researchers. Not surprisingly, an endowed chair for the study of "racial hygiene," as the Germans called eugenics, had been established at the University of Munich as early as 1923, the year after Sweden created the State Institute for Racial Biology in Uppsala. "

Swedes were first with nazism. Munich came second.
Swedes founs the Sami, the Gypsies and Finns to be lesser race. Luckily the Germans did not believe the Finns to be lesser race.

now we are thinking of a way to get them removed from the surface of the earth and have their websites shut down.
--
Why are you for nazism ? And why do you call yourself a Finn ?

"we used to follow these discussions during english-training here at my work, a 100% finnish speaking company in the middle of Finland"

And please tell us what is the name and location (and name of teacher) of the 100 percent Finnish company as otherwise that seems a bit revealing about the fact that you are not Finnish at all.

The who and whereabouts are none of your business, the fact is that your awful propaganda is rapidely creating a big backlash in the opinions will come as big surprise.
One can be of the opinion that mandatory swedish in all finnish schools may be unnecessary but that does not give you the right to demonize all our swedish-speaking fellow citicens.

The Eiry
http://www.saunalahti.fi/eiry/
http://www.sci.fi/~eiry/

and suomalaisuudenliitto
http://www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi/

as well as any similar thoughts
are to a large extent banned from the finnish media.

The "backlash" is the creation of the nazis marching again, swedes, who also have banned the finnish media from revealing statistics etc. of how the finns are treated in sweden as well as finland in comparison to the

In a similar way the Soviet Union banned thoughts that were anti-socialist.

The insanity of Finns was also something Henrik Lax said.
http://www.henriklax.nu/

Lock'em up and throw away the key.

Lahti has banned a father
http://netlari.econnection.fi/forum/forum.php?viesti=37829&sana=

"Swedes were first with nazism. Munich came second.
Swedes founs the Sami, the Gypsies and Finns to be lesser race. Luckily the Germans did not believe the Finns to be lesser race."

Actually, Finns were a lesser race according to the principles of Nazism, far below the Aryans and a sub-species of Slavs. Finnish men had been good for leading lesser races, such as russians, as a workforce while finnish women could have been used to give birth to Aryan babies.

"Personally I feel a little embarrassed and caught out by this. I had been worried about being embarrassed by some fellow Finn or another, but this was not what I expected at all."

The same goes for me. This is getting really embarrassing, and it's killing the good discussion here. I have never encountered this kind of opinions before, and it's hard for me to believe that anybody could seriously think like that. I'm ashamed for you, whoever you are.

I spent eight months in Minnesota last year, and heard that once there was a Finnish man who were declined the American citizenship on the grounds that he was not white (this was in the beginning of the 20th century). 'Race' is always something that is culturally constructed, not a biological fact. Italians were called the "Chinese of Europe", and so on.

By the way, I'm returning to Minneapolis in the fall. This time I'll spent a bit longer time there. I'm looking forward to it :)

Big thanks to Lucian and Bob! I'm a Finn not living in Finland at the moment, but I miss my home country a lot and these articles have made me value my home country even more. I can clearly see that the negative points of Finland were not mentioned, but I guess that was not the meaning either? You cannot "advertise" this little country between Sweden and Russian by putting the bad things worst. Cheers, mates! ;)

I wonder if this nick "immigrant" is one of those TROLLS who would like to ruin every good conversation in every forum in every topic, to spit out this nonsense of racism.

Finnish people are the most liberate people in the earth. They do not hate any one beause of one's coulour or culture. Finnish people have been suffered in the WWII and before that under the Russian and Swedish over a 100 yrs ago and still they are one of the best country live in. They have the best educated people in the world and the economy is one of the best too.

I have lived in this country over 10 yrs and before that I have lived in USA, GB and and China. All I can say to this TROLL "Immigrant" SFUP kid and get a life and do not bash finnish people.

Riksu rulez said:
>>"Finnish people have very socialist mindset,too"

So many of these comments contain all sorts of false generalizations both from Finns and the US citizens concerning both Finland and the USA. It is really irritating.

---

Jenni, thanks for the links about the "Finlanders". It really makes one to understand the attitudes of many Americans who obviously think that all the Finns in Finland are also like the Red "Finlanders" back in the history. The article told that only about 30% of the those Finns were actually Red. But as usual, that sort of people get much attention by keeping much noise. So as it is easier to make generalizations than not to, all the Finns got a label on their forehead.

---

Phil said:

>>"If there is any racism in Finland, it's thanks to the welfare state. Why would Finns dislike foreigners? Is it simply because the color of their skin or is it the financial burden they place upon the welfare state?
I have found Finns VERY open to new cultures and new people, once you get past the initial shyness, this becomes very apparent. The *ONLY* complaints I ever hear from Finns about immigrants are the costs involved"

Phil, I think you said it.

I totally agree with people who say that they're embarrased by those few individuals who have been posting irrational, incorrect and extremely boring messages about Finland. These include the so called Language Warriors, but also others who've make huge generalisations thus giving a really misleading picture of Finland to foreigners who may no nothing about the country. Shame on you! I'm an ex-pat Finn. I sent the link to this website to all my work colleagues and friends. Based on a quick glance at some good conversations I thought "this is a good way of telling so many things about Finland to the people I live and work with. Excellent!" But boy, have I regretted it! After the first day, no one has given me good feedback on this site and I'm sure it's because of the few individuals who have made a lot of noise about themselves with their weird posts. Please Mr Police, go and trace these people up! As someone said earlier, it must be illegal to spread hatered against groups of people. I won't even try to get through to these individuals who obviously cannot understand how out of place their behaviour is. It's very similar to that of some drunk person who pisses all over the streets shouting abuse to pedestrians with a slurred voice. Whatever their message is, it will not reach the audience because it's not presented with the audience in mind (audience's prior knowledge, interests etc.) You can't send a message unless you think about your audience. Sorry, but that's a very basic rule about communication. No need to list facts (or fictions!) from history, because you haven't caught your audience's interest and respect in the first place! Waste of time. Apart from these frustrating posts, I think that the series has been absolutely amazing! For Finnish people it's been great. The discussions and the articles have given me so much more food for thought than I expected. But unfortunately, for the foreigners the discussions must have been at times extremely boring and incomperehensible to follow, because they would not know which trolls to filter out. In future, it would be good to have voting buttons or something. So that if a post is considered inappropriate by many people it could be thrown into a junk folder. People who love going through rubbish could still be allowed to read those posts. Anyway, thanks to Robert and Lucian. I hope you have some good memories of finland and that you will return soon!

I like listening to all points of view. The comments have been so much more enlightening about Finland and individual Finns that the articles themselves. Watching the tv mini series RAID made me really interested in Finland and Finns. I think you have a genius film maker in the director of that film.

"A sane common finn", I think you're only pretending to be stupid, and you're not a Finn.

The Swedish People's Party is a racist political organization. Just because Finns hate Swedish Nazism and the cancer of language apartheid, does not mean that we hate so-called Finn-Swedes.

We are very liberal, and Finns have been remarkably patient and tolerant of this abuse until now.

Sorry joe stewart, Finns like me and katariina will find the statement you mad of RAID portraying th current finnish society.... not as current nor descriptive - parts of it, but it is as we claim say the film "american pie" tobe a description of USA, eh?

I would like the opportunity to obtain 3 copies of the whole series on Finland. Will they become available in a booklet, or are they the nucleus of a whole tretise to be published soon? Aged Finnish relatives, as well as children with diluted Finnish blood, would find the series informative and gratifying.

At least this blog reveals that even Finnish lunatics ("language warriors") are able use internet and express their hallucinations in foreign language (obviously not in Swedish though). What could be a better proof of the efficiency of the Finnish education system :) No child left behind here.

Bob and Lucian, thank you for your interesting articles. As you may have noted, there's a lot of BS in these comments. This is not a good system. You should construct a system where one has to use his or her own real name when commenting. It should at least be traceable afterwards who sent the posts. Some kind of moderation is needed.

The greatest problem with your articles has been lack of background work and information about Finland. You don't seem to know anything about the history of this country. It is necessary to know some history and to understand how the society has developed in order to write about present-day Finland.

You probably came here because of our success in education and some other international arenas. For your information, we've been here all the time, even before you became interested and suddenly wanted to know all about us when we beat you in competition. If you want to know how we got here, you just have to find about what we did when you weren't looking.

The lack of knowledge makes your articles partly primitive and naive. You haven't always been able to put things in context, only chatted with some individuals and written it down in your articles. In a way you have been looking at us Finns like we were some cute pet animals. "Oh look, they can speak English with and Oxford accent, how wonderful!!!" This attitude is common with Americans. But we're not pet animals, we're people.

Maybe your purpose was to promote Finland in the US, but a lot of Finns don't like half-hearted journalism. I think you demonstrated good points in the Finnish society well, but obviously Finns just can't take compliments. They don't understand that sometimes people just want to know good things, not bad things, although everyone know bad things exist in every country. Many commentators in this blog haven't oviously lived anywhere else than Finland or only one country in addition to Finland. They can't put things in context. Any publicity is good publicity, but I'm really disappointed at some comments in this blog.

Blog entries are blog entries, they are not supposed to be journalism. I think the actual articles on Finland that have been published in the Post are up to even strict Finnish standards of professional journalism. :)

Seriously, confusing blogging with journalism is a common mistake by non-journalists, but I don't think Bob and Lucian made that mistake, and that is good.

first of all, who are you to call me an idiot? i must have some gray matter if i hold a ph.d.

secondly, you can not have an infinite number of people in a limited space. what if the united states decided to shoot off its poor to finland? that would amount to appx. 40-50 million people- provided that we adjust the 1963 poverty formula. the united states is on the verge of 300 million growing at the rate of 3.3. million annually. several states are already battling over water and land. this was unheard of on the east coast until the 1990s. water bodies are being depleted 25 percent faster than being replenished.

the politicians', businesses' love affair with immigration, particularly from central and south america, stems from its endless quest for cheap labour. in their eyes latinos are the embodiment of perfect immigrants with their non-questioning ways; eager to support the status quo/system, high fertility rates by providing a vast pool of cheap labour, and ofcourse their ultra-consumerist ways. go to any best buy, or walmart, you are confronted with hordes and hordes of latino shoppers.

these groups benefit the interests of powers to be, not the common person. the solution lies in not allowing an infinite number of people into the country, but changing our biased foreign policies and aiding them in family planning (indeed, at times, it might seem like an insurmountable task).

in the final analysis, i will not change my non-apolegetic views and rhetoric on immigration. i am an exception in the academic world in that i am unabashed and vocal about my sentiments. most of my colleagues espouse and verbalise similar views in the privacy of their offices, but put on a different facade for public consumption.

as for your lesbian comment; the key to changing attitudes is education. the vast majority of people are socialized and conditioned into seeing gender and sexuality in a rigid, polarized and conventional manner.

finally, i will no longer tend to your uninformed comments. i must say, i am becoming midly annoyed with your all-american attitude. it becones wearisome
after a while.

Dear "anti-apartheid" anti-swede kook, why don't you coward pos write in your own name? Why is it always that trolling kooks use "clever" pseudonyms to hide behind? Grow a spine, you little sniveling bitch.

You write as if your lunatic ramblings somehow were the truth, and nothing but the truth, when even you, in your rare, sane moments, realize that you're just a garden variety loonie channeling your dissapointments and failures in life into a "cause" you can identify with. Get a life, you sad excuse for a human being.

Finnish middle-class wants to give a politically correct picture of Finland.
They want "moderation" with other words is "censorship" of non-politically correct writings.

Denying that there is a language conflict is not a western way to solve problems.

It is considered that the Finns are less talkative than other people. Once the Finns talk from their own viewpoint, from the Finnish people's viewpoint "moderation" is demanded in the debate.

That very same phenomena takes place in all Finnish debate-forums,too. As far as the middle-class and over-class had an access to the internet,everything was fine.

Now the others have an access,too. That means less politically correct topis in the debate from the viewpoint of the Finnish middle-class and Svenska Damtidningen readers.

The mess started when the people got an access to the internet. That is going to take place in other countries,too.
The political-economical elite will be suprised there,too,about the outcome.

Internet is not a playground of educated and well-doing people who identify themselves with the mainstream and political elite. Finland hopefully show the way in this respect,too.

Thanks to WP. It is more liberal than the Finnish media which cencors non-politically correct opinions of Finland's language policy, a creation of ruling class whose values date back to the times Sweden occupied Finland.

Tero Paananen mused: "you little sniveling bitch"

Touched a nerve, have we? :-)

This is how apartheid agents always act when they become desparate to cling to their unjustified privileges and realise they have no supporting arguments for compulsory swedish.

They resort to childish personal insults, to try to distract from the issue.

The illegal and inhumane compulsory swedish will disappear from Finland, and their bile-spewing against the understanding and patient Finnish people will accelerate this.

I say that apartheidistit is very desperate because they can not censor this forum.

"we used to follow these discussions during english-training here at my work, a 100% finnish speaking company in the middle of Finland and we could not belive our very eyes, most of us had not even heard about "The Finnish assembly" or "EIRY" but now we are thinking of a way to get them removed from the surface of the earth and have their websites shut down.
It must be a crime to spread such hatred against innocent fellow citizens who´s only flaw is they have a different mother tongue. Shame on you!"

The cencorship in Finland is a sure thing.
This would however be a great example to american schools as well as schools of developing countries how countries may appear to be one thing but under the surface there are all kinds of issues which are not talked about, in this case, people are not allowed to talk about.

The countries the Soviet Union invaded had similar things: whereas Soviets claimed to have all kinds of freedoms and great laws and such - the reality was very different.

There too was lots of suicides as the tyrannical rule made people desperate. At least the language they were taught was big and useful. Unlike Swedish, not needed anywhere.

American kids and kids from developing countries would understand to act against similar things happening in their society under different guises and thus make their country a better place.

"Bob and Lucian, thank you for your interesting articles. As you may have noted, there's a lot of BS in these comments. This is not a good system. You should construct a system where one has to use his or her own real name when commenting. It should at least be traceable afterwards who sent the posts. Some kind of moderation is needed."

Traceable to make sure the person will not tell the truth anymore. Final solution is near.

"They want "moderation" with other words is "censorship" of non-politically correct writings."

Bookburning.

"This is how apartheid agents always act when they become desparate to cling to their unjustified privileges and realise they have no supporting arguments for compulsory swedish."

Yes they have tried to act like parents "whining Finns, bitching Finns" etc. and called Finns that tell the truth to be telling "propaganda", however, _if_ there was huge institutions and parties telling the truth, which is not the case, the correct word would be counterpropaganda as Finns are not told the truth about Swedes at all.

http://www.magasinet-monitor.net/english/4apr01.htm

The propaganda in school books about Sweden and Swedes is strikingly similar to old nazi-era german movies,
http://www.slba.se/journaldigital/REEL_HISTORY/kroppskultur_06.htm

telling how happy people are in the social party fantasyworld.

"Between 1934 and 1976, when the Sterilisation Act was finally repealed, 62,000 people, 90 percent of them women, were sterilised. 15-year-old teenagers were sterilised for "crimes" such as going to dance halls. One woman was sterilised in 1960 for being in a motorcycle gang. Orphans were sterilised as a condition of their release from children's homes. Others were pinpointed on the basis of local neighbourhood gossip and personal grudges. Some were targeted because of their "low intelligence", being of mixed race, being gypsies, or for physical defects."
http://www.survivalarts.com/archives/000974.html

"They resort to childish personal insults, to try to distract from the issue."

So it seems to be. The facts that Sweden had the first racial biology faculty in the world and that they considered Finns to be of lesser race should be told to all Finnish school children during history lessons. Finland needs lots of immigrants in coming years and to tell that nazism is not right is essential to be able to accommodate them.
The truth is only way to tell that nazism is not right.

It is in the history books, you twat.

Not told to kids in history lessons.

The school books represent a very different image of the Nordic countries to the real one.

"The mess started when the people got an access to the internet. That is going to take place in other countries,too."

Lots of the Finnish pages are censored heavily on the matter of languages and if you have wrong opinions anyone can trace who sent and what. Kids should be taught to use usenet news which are harder to censure in schools. They are not.

Dear Sirs in Charge,

Thank you very much for your comprehensive, interesting articles and specially a forum to discuss for a good cause.

My humble wish is to finaly get rid of _compulsory_ swedish in Finland.

This is why - Languages spoken in Finland as a mother tonque.
finish: 92%
swedish: 5%
other: 3%

Btw. The Swedish rule in Finland has finished in 1809.

Thanks again.
Regards,
Niin no

^Nincompoops are everwhere. Even in Finland.

Even the one who posted the previous one. Can't even write properly.

To those finns arguing:
No voe helevetin perse, antakaa jo sen asian olla. Täällä tapellessa ette saa yhtään mitään aikaan.

He who farts in church, sits in own pew.

The Sage has spoken.

Finnish children must study languages - it is compulsory. Is studying English as bad a crime as studying Swedish? It is complusory to study some languages, but why? All children should be freed from this ridiculous archeic system! Freedom to choose! To study or not to study - that is the question.

Right.

Dear Sirs,

Finland is not any nice country for divorced dads.
Even some US dads have experienced that lately,
namely Rogers and Campoy.

If Finnish women are world famous of their beauties, still
some of them have odd evil in their minds, even those
social worker ladies, who are supposed to take care of children.

My second marrige with a Russian woman lasted only for 2 years.
I invited her to visit in Finland for 30 days, but she never wanted
return back to Soviet Union. She got pregnant and soon we had a daughter.

Now all big problems started, there nothing was enough for my ex-wife.
But the worst thing for me were the authorities here in Lahti.
They did not listen to me at all, only what my ex-wife asked them to do.

So she divorced me and moved with our baby from my flat, because
Lahti social worker ladies offered her much more money than me.
I could only offer and give them food and an accommodation, but
she needed real money in cash.

For years I struggled to see and meet my daughter.
In court we have had been more than 10 times without any real help.
When I got in court meeting days for my child, at once my ex-wife made
a false accusation to me about sexual abuse to avoid dad-child meetings.

When her first false attempt did not realize, she with help of police
cancelled my passport just after our trip to Spain, that I can not travel
abroad with my child any more during our holidays.
She then received double child allowances, when Lahti distraint office
charged me that money, even I had already payed them, those officers
did not believe in my receipt or documents of paying.

Three years ago she made second time a false accusation of sexual abuse.
That I had forced then my 9-y.o. daughter to watch a porn video.
But we had only read and looked at the mother`s day the book about
birth and grow, Joe Kaufman: How We Are Born.

So I was sentenced to 3 months imprisonment for this false accusation, lies.
Now it has been already over 3 years that I could not meet my own daughter,
who lives with her Russian mother in the same city as me, in Lahti Finland.
I am a Finnish citizen living in Lahti too, and was married with this
Russian woman about 10 years ago, and my daughter is 12 years.

I have tried all my possible efforts to correct this wrongness for my child
and me, but no any success and I have received our highest court
answer too to my appeal, that they will not handle my case here!

So I also have my complaint to European Council of Human Right:
Valitusnro 7078/03 xxxxx v. Suomi

but I will take further for years to get any results from them!
And so it will not help me and my child to get any possibility to meet or
even discuss with each other.

So what can I do, because I want to see my daughter and I think she
wants too, but because she lives with her mother, she can not do nothing
and she is under her mother`s control and even manipulated by her mother.
I think she is already under so called "PAS"(syndrome)!

Here it is more information of my case, but of course it is in Finnish:

http://netlari.econnection.fi/forum/forum.php?viesti=37829&sana=

Yours
"Kilmarius"
kilmarius@yahoo.com

To the swede "student" , English language is very useful in the world.

The useless dialect of Swedish taught by force to all Finnish children is as useful as Eskimo language.

But, useful or not, the point is that we don't want compulsory Swedish in our school system anymore. It's that simple. Maybe a drawing would better help you understand.

"But, useful or not, the point is that we don't want compulsory Swedish in our school system anymore."

Who we? I do, and so does many other Finns. So don't generalize. I went to school in a small town in North Finland where absolutely nobody spoke Swedish, and I STILL think that it's a wealth to master many languages. I'm always proud to say that my country is bilingual, even though my Swedish is these days really rusty.

And by the way, we could just continue this discussion in Finnish - you weird fennomans have chased away all non-Finnish readers with your racist comments. Congratulations...

"Who we? I do, and so does many other Finns. So don't generalize. "

The "finland-swedes" do. Not any Finns. Not those with less, nor those with more money.

"I went to school in a small town in North Finland where absolutely nobody spoke Swedish, and I STILL think that it's a wealth to master many languages. I'm always"

Not true.

"proud to say that my country is bilingual, even though my Swedish is these days really rusty."

And lots of use for it too ?

"And by the way, we could just continue this discussion in Finnish - you weird fennomans have chased away all non-Finnish readers with your racist comments. Congratulations..."

Were it up to the "finland-swedes", there would be no Finns in existance. Wars they like. As that means less finns. When I went to school there was a Finn who had lived in Sweden. "Why dont we use Swedish newspapers so we can read real Swedish texts" - the teacher was at least honest:
there was no swedish newspaper at the time that did not mock Finns.

Not known to us at the time, but many of the usually made-up stories were written by the "finland-swedes."

"To those finns arguing:
No voe helevetin perse, antakaa jo sen asian olla. Täällä tapellessa ette saa yhtään mitään aikaan."

No but silence is much worse. It accepts the opression.

Things do not change over time that much. History shows how the Swedes have always been the same kind and are unlikely to change:

Long ago the Viking had slaves.

Swedes invaded Finland. People went to war "to pay tax" - for the land that previously belonged to them. Died in wars because of that.

Swedes had a faculty of racial biology in Uppsala. Soon after the nazi had work camps.

Social democrats like "active employment policies" = work camps for those who are not educated as they had not money to educate themselves with. Other parties tend to agree.

Had the Uppsala racial biology and similar things been actively opposed there would not have been nazis. World did not oppose. The future brings similar things: the future for Finland seems hopeless. Get out while and if you can.

I do not think Finland is what it seems to be. We foreigners are surprised by its high standards and wellfare, but there is something below it that seems to be...plain. Having it all, there is something left. Maybe Passion?

You Finns and Swedes fight too much. You are making spectacle of yourself!

First on the topic of racism. I live in Raahe. A small town with very few (if any) foreigners. By the time I was 18 I had never talked to an immigrant of any kind. Then I went to USA with its ethnic majorities and... I DIDN'T have any problems with that. I find my family to be as tolerant as me along with my friends. I know a Brazilian who has been in Finland for a year and as far as I know he hasn't experienced anything even borderline racist. The conclusion is that the average Joe Finn is not a racist (although maybe inexperienced with foreigners).

Secondly on the Swedish language. I am happy I learnt it in school but I do see the advantages in opening the choice of the second (mandatory) foreign language. Meaning that one could choose eg. German instead of Swedish.

How about changing the subject to the Finnish women?

Being a native of Los Angeles California, I've had to grow up with many insecure, shallow, and materialistic women. Getting to know the intelligence, the warmth, and humor of the Finnish chicks has been a great experience and I intend to continue it. It is one of the many reasons why I have visited Finland 15 times and will not stop.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

Fennomans, please try to make your mind and pick one: a) Racism is bad and racial judgements should not be done. Then you have no base TODAY to judge swedes as inferior people (liars, racists, criminals etc.) and finns superior. b) Some nationalities are worse than others. Then you can't get no moral high ground for pointing that swedes have thought so about us because you still do, but only other way around. How is that any more noble?

How about changing the subject to the Finnish women?

"Even some US dads have experienced that lately,
namely Rogers and Campoy.

If Finnish women are world famous of their beauties, still
some of them have odd evil in their minds, even those
social worker ladies, who are supposed to take care of children."

No harm done if you only keep it in that "Finnish chicks" level!

_Compulsory_ swedish in Finland. That's racism for sure.

And I want my children to get an education and a job e.g. in the administrative system without mandatory swedish test.

This is why - Languages spoken in Finland as a mother tonque.
finish: 92%
swedish: 5%
other: 3%

The Swedish rule in Finland has finished in 1809 and it's time to make our own destiny finally.

If this all is racism I am proud to be a 'fennoman', as they say, then.

Sanonpa vielä yhden asian: Ahvenanmaa

Regards,
Niin no

"Speak Swedish or leave the school" that the order in a Finnish school where the principal is Fenno-Swedish:

http://195.255.83.67/cgi-bin/mediaweb?Newsp=hbl&Date=020406&Depa=inrikes&Model=ajuttusivu.html&Story=05172899.txt#toppen

Terms need to be defined here: "racism" refers to ethnic origin, i.e. race. Swedes and Finns, and Swedish-speaking Finns, are of same origin in the sense that both are "Caucasian", not Asian or African or anything else. And even if we were to use other definitions, we are still too close to talk about different races.

I am Finnish, and have no Swedish speaking friends or relatives, and I still think it's ok to learn Swedish at school, and that it doesn't take anything away from by "Finnishness". Maybe because I was always good at it? Maybe some of you hotheads thought it was difficult?

"Maybe because I was always good at it? Maybe some of you hotheads thought it was difficult?"

Jag är mycket bra med alla språk. Det bästa som finns.

Compulsary Swedish is a sign of the fact that Finland is not an independent country. Of all the angry, invading countries there are, the worst happened to Finland.

Finns will be extinct. They are not able to fight the invasion.

"First on the topic of racism. I live in Raahe. A small town with very few (if any) foreigners. By the time I was 18 I had never talked to an immigrant of any kind. Then I went to USA with its ethnic majorities and... I DIDN'T have any problems with that. I find my family to be as tolerant as me along with my friends."

Finns do not have their noses up the sky.
Alas that is also the reason we got invaded by the Swedes. The culture coming from there - worst in Europe, there is nothing good Finns can learn by studying Swedish, the language of the country with the first racial biological faculty in the world; what they blame foreigners for, changes, but the hate stays.
Hundreds of years of history show they will stay the same, not wanting peaceful co-existence but death and suffering to different people.

"Thanks to WP. It is more liberal than the Finnish media which cencors non-politically correct opinions of Finland's language policy, a creation of ruling class whose values date back to the times Sweden occupied Finland."

Well they are not occupied by the Swedes. Finns are pussies. Swedes are often looked up to; Swedish porno films are known all around.
It is like.. think of a school class: there is the pussy student, never gets pussy/or.., studies hard, does her/his best, there is the nazi student, rules the class, says how things are like, defines hate, defines bad; that is how Sweden is like here in northern Europe.
The pussy, Finland, never gets anywhere, ends up like in "Back to the Future", the present was like before the fantasy, the guy who ruled - ruled.

Finland should take tough immigrants. Not look at who was worst and has the longest ..well.. I dont know if the word is ok here so I will leave it unsaid. But take 10 million tough immigrants. And 10 million clever ones.

For example, Chinese are clever. Vietnamese kicked out the US forces.

Now all big problems started, there nothing was enough for my ex-wife.
But the worst thing for me were the authorities here in Lahti.
They did not listen to me at all, only what my ex-wife asked them to do.
--
You try being out of work. Have to steal for a living as the authorities do not give the money that the law says should be given to all.

We must fight back using any means necessary against the corrupt, racist snakes of the Swedish People's Party, who are trying to kill our Finnsih identity, culture, and language.

My family moved away from Finland 15 years ago. I can't believe you suckers still have to learn S#/ttish in school! It's what we used to call yoke-swedish. Do you still watch black and white TV too?

I'd like to comment on the issue racism in Finland. I live in the capital city Helsinki ja study at the university. I feel it's great to have foreigners here in Helsinki, I love walking the streets of downtown and hearing many foreign languages spoken. At the university, you can get to know to people from many other countries. I welcome all refugees and other foreigners to Finland. The number of Finnish people I know is quite big and none of them have any racist or xenophobic thoughts. Maybe it is the not-so-well-educated part of the people that is more xenophobic.

Dear Leena,

_Compulsory_ swedish in Finland. That's racism for sure.

This is why - Languages spoken in Finland as a mother tonque.
finish: 92%
swedish: 5%
other: 3%

If this is racism I am proud to be a 'fennoman', as they say, then.

Sanonpa vielä yhden asian: Ahvenanmaa

Regards,
Niin no

Right, just a short blog from me - and since this is my first blog on here I sharn't involve myself in this debate...

I've read the "Finland Diary" daily for the past few weeks and I must say that I was delighted to find such a thing.

As a British-born descendant of Finns (Pohjanmaa and Vaasa) I was very pleased to read this. Just so that you know I'm Finnish on my Paternal Grandmother's side - a Norwegian married in to the family, their son moved to Sweden, his daughter married a Dane then they married the French side of the family and wound up in England... my Father was born and married my Mother who was 1st generation English to Irish-American parents of mixed Norwegian/German/Spanish descent... however it is Finland with which I seem to identify most strongly since it is the strongest line in the family tree...

As a few people have already mentioned there seems to be a certain stigma attached to Finns - if I ever mention my heritage or my interest in such things as the Kalevala or modern Finnish music such as Nightwish, 69Eyes, Apocalyptica, The Rasmus, HIM, Kwan etc.etc. the general reaction is one of disdain and an attitude of "why on Earth do you like Finland?!", or, as has happened a few times "you're family were Finns? Are they weird? I thought that they were strange?"

Hopefully through webblogs such as this and events such as the Atheletics events coming up in Helsinki this summer and the growing popularity of groups like The Rasmus more people's interest in Finland might be sparked and it might gain more coverage in the media (except of course for the fortnight leading up to Christmas every year when nearly every travel show seems to visit the Santa Village :-)). It's a shame that many more people don't appreciate the impact that Finland has had on modern society and life - from the Kalevala providing much of the basis for Lord of the Rings (in fact Tolkein himself said that the Elvish languages were based largely on Finnish) to as has been mentioned in the Diary, the impact of Nokia and Linux.

I hope that you will accept my compliments and thanks on this excellent piece of journalism and I hope to read more adventures from another country soon :-D

Kiitos...

To "Why are apartheidists desperate?":

There is no threat of Swedish invasion, and Swedish speaking people are merely reacting to the fact that their language is slowly becoming more marginalised. They are not trying, or could they ever succeed, in destroying Finnish culture. I cannot believe, of all political issues, come of you would choose this one for your battle, i.e. a battle that in reality hardly exists. We are learning another language, not "unlearning" our own. Finns are still the majority in Finland. To use the word apartheid in this context is an insult to those who've actually experienced it. So please.

A swede has disputed usage of the term "apartheid". She wants to distract from the issue of Finland's apartheid by pretending everything is OK.

How sad and misleading.

I am not a Swede. An what is more, I am not paranoid. As for apartheid; look it up. It's in the dictionary.

Iam not American

More power to you. Or not.

27 years of discrimination at a Swedish university in Finland.

Swedish university Åbo Akademi discriminated 27 years Finnish speaking students. Rector is a member of Swedish People's Party. The justice may come gradually even to Finland:

http://www.turunsanomat.fi/verkkolehti/?ts=1,4:2:0:0,4:2:1:1:1999-12-30,4:39076,1:0:0:0:0:

No one said things were perfect. It's still not apartheid, if the country has numerous Finnish schools and Universities, and the number of places where Swedish is required to take care of business is small. Very small. We have it good, believe you me. And don't worry, I'll get over the pain your truth caused me. But thanks.

"the number of places where Swedish is required to take care of business is small. Very small."

In light of this, compulsory swedish for every Finn seems _even_more_ ludicrous.

I never said compulsory Swedish is necessary. I said it doesn't hurt learn it. I just pointed out that your analogy with apartheid is both inaccurate and exaggerated. Again, look up the word Apartheid.

The reason for learning swedish in finnish schools is not for the students to be able to "give service in swedish". Not in my world anyway. It's to have a connection to the neighbouring nordic countries - Sweden, Norway and Denmark. The ties are strong historically, economically and culturally. That's why we should be able to communicate in another language than english. In a increasingly bigger EU it should be obvious that the nordic countries need to stick together.

People also tend to "forget" that swedishspeakers in Finland read finnish in school, just as finnishspeakers read swedish. For some reason some people like to paint a picture that the swedishspeakers in Finland are some sort of "master race", and it's usually those who want to eradicate the swedish language in Finland that do this. Well, that's an illusion that they can live with, as long as all you other people realise that this isn't so.

My thoughts exactly.

Some mystery anonymous swede wrote:
>>The reason for learning swedish in finnish schools is not for the students to be able to "give service in swedish". Not in my world anyway. It's to have a connection to the neighbouring nordic countries - Sweden, Norway and Denmark. The ties are strong historically, economically and culturally. That's why we should be able to communicate in another language than english. In a increasingly bigger EU it should be obvious that the nordic countries need to stick together.

>>People also tend to "forget" that swedishspeakers in Finland read finnish in school, just as finnishspeakers read swedish. For some reason some people like to paint a picture that the swedishspeakers in Finland are some sort of "master race", and it's usually those who want to eradicate the swedish language in Finland that do this. Well, that's an illusion that they can live with, as long as all you other people realise that this isn't so.

Dear readers,
Do you feel strange and violated after reading the above? You should, because nearly every sentence is a lie, false conclusion based on false premise, or lie mixed with truth. It is an example of how apartheidists twist and turn in their own lies and delusions. They live in a bubble.

The problem of Apartheid in Finland is gaining more and more attention all the time.

This is a nice story. And i love Scandinavians. Serially, in fact. However, I feel that I ought to point out a subtext within this article that I found mildly disturbing.
Namely, that its over-appreciation of Finland hides an unfortunate, if subtle, misinformed liberal bias in terms implicitly RELATIVE to the United States. My first problem is tied to the declaration that this trip was the writer's first extended visit to a Scandinavian [sic] Welfare state, as if this mode of political organisation can somehow explain the apparently utopian life experience one is exposed to in Finland. Why privilege high tax rates, as opposed to, say, any myriad of lovely cultural norms that might make Finland so wonderful?
Second, while the story of the returned backpack really is beautiful, I am concerned at the degree of surprise with which this charitable act was interpreted. Many individuals, sadly, are highly critical of Western culture, and of US culture in particular, as creating not so much a society, but rather a collection of greedy, soullessly egoistic individuals utterly incapable of the act of charity you describe in this story. Your surprise can, under these circumstances, be read as implicitly accepting this misguided critique of US culture, insofar that you seem to explain the returned handbag in terms of--of course--an implicit preference for their welfare state and its emphasis on social, as opposed to merely American, values.

Thirdly, by pointing out a Finnish SUBURBAN culture of opera--again, its that 'impressive music education' presumably provided by the welfare state--with its impressive (expensive?) music facilities that seats thousands, as implicitly opposed to an AMERICAN suburban experience--presumably a social space totally devoid of any redeeming features or cultural value whatsoever, except for the fact that it can still produce (ala American Beauty) a few maladjusted teenagers hell-bent on escaping this moral desert--can clearly be read as a subterranean critique of the US.
Moreover, it is unfortunate that the authors did not point out that this 'suburb', Espoo, is in actual fact one the largest and wealthiest cities in Finland, even if it is on the outskirts of Helsinki. Espoo, home of the multi-billion dollar firm Nokia which is the backbone of the Finnish economy, as a city hardly typifies the Finnish 'experience'.

Of course I am exaggerating for the fun of it..........but can you imagine any Finnish journalist [or indeed anyone not from the USA] gushing over America like this? Perhaps we deserve fewer positive appraisals. But should any implicitly RELATIVE cultural appraisal really be this lop-sided? Are these Panglossian musings really an accurate reflection of Finnish society, to such an extent that we are to believe that all Finnish 'taxi drivers and shopkeepers are kind to foreigners who speak no Finnish?' Or that the Finns somehow have a monopoly on civilised behaviour? Perhaps in actual fact, the tax-bracket of those wealthy Espooians explained the smiles on the faces of the famously taciturn Finns!

I have never been to Finland, so I'll withhold my judgement for the time being. But I cannot help but be suspicious of this article's conclusions. The idea that travelling Americans [or their readers] ought to imagine that the Finnish are living in a fairly tale land where their exorbitant tax rates have created a society these writers clearly believe is superior to their own is an unfortunate, if altogether increasingly common, exercise in liberal American self-loathing.

Yours,
Patrick Cullen
An American Ex-Pat in London

Great article! Actuslly Santa Claus is not from Finland but from Gotland. I swear I've seen him there last Christmas! ;)

Hello - Occupied territories back to Finland

Look at the finnish occupied territories with demanding them back http://www.kavkaz.fi and http://www.kavkaz.fi/ru spasiba;)

Seppo Lehto Isänmaan Asialla r.y. Tampere

Mr. Seppo Lehto hates Russians, and the black people, too. Known fact in Finland.

Uskomatonta että eräät jaksavat ruikuttaa tähänkin julkaisuun pakkoruotsista. Tehkää jotain asialle, älkääkä pelkästään puristelko finnejänne. Clearasil auttaa.

LOOK UP THE WORD APARTHEID! How can you have a civil conversation with anyone when your terms are ill-defined? Your paranoia is frightening. The world you live in exists only in your mind.

"The world you live in exists only in y"

The real world is real to lots of us. You seem to be the one having the unreal one.

Posted by: jenni_amerikkalainen | June 13, 2005 12:03 PM,
The racism you speak about in the U.S. probably came around because Finns moved, buying tickets to ships with, near the other Nordics who hated them and told untrue stories about them.

They still do that. Probably is still not a good idea for you to tell you have Finnish origins in some parts of the world, at least if there are Nordics around. The ways they use to opress change but their mentality stays the same.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman33.html
"The Irish Times of August 30, 1997, meanwhile, reports that "90 per cent of [those sterilizied] were women," and that "the practice, which predated and outlived Nazi Germany, started as an attempt to weed out perceived genetic weaknesses, mental or physical defectsand ended as a method of social control." According to Professor Gunnar Broberg, "Young girls were told they would be set free from [mental] homes and prisons 'if we are allowed to make you calmer.'""

http://www.saunalahti.fi/eiry/
The Eiry pages explain it well if you can Finnish.

Alas in Finland the schools teach a really different story and everyone even has to study the language of the opressors.

I just want to add an honest comment:

I suppose I am a racist, but I just don't want any massive immigration in Finland. I'm scared of all the possible problems (cultural conflicts etc.) it might produce, even though I understand (at least I think I do) that immigration might be a good thing for us, and that there are a lot of people in the world, who need places to immigrate because of wars etc.

I've got nothing against foreigner, I just don't want them here. This is just the way I feel and I have no excuse for it.

I just think that I have the right to feel the way I do. If I want to preserve our "stubborn-pig-headed-not-doing-any-small-talk-and not-giving-any-public-presentations-not-wanting- to-study-swedish-at-school-always-hating-russians-and finally:always-remembering-the-winter-war-and continuation-war-because-we-owe-quite-a-lot-to-the veterans-of-war" -attitude.
-so shoot me.

We are a small nation with clean nature, good education, safe society and rich culture - and I want to preserve these things for the next generations also. I don't want mass tourism here and I dont want to feel guilty about not being successfull world citizen at the of 22 (which reading these blogs make me feel).

If I like living in the countryside and walk in the forest, I've got just as much right to do that as the "successfull people" has got the right to do things they like and want = I'm just trying to say that I don't want to be successfull and multicultural. I want to live my quiet life as I do now, and not to feel guilty about it. And I definetely don't want foreigner to come here and tell us what we're supposed to do better or differently.

So, by modern standards this makes me a bad bad person, but I can't help it, I can't help the way I feel. I love my little country and (most) of the people who live here, because dispite of all the differences in the way we think, most of us share the quiet finnish mentality which makes us who we are.

I've really liked to read this Finland diary a lot, so thank you very much to Robert and Lucian.

But these blogs make feel really guilty about being "the average Jane Doe" who I am. Too bad...

Great article.

I must say that monoculture like the one in Finland or Japan is simply the greatest kind of culture.

Black people have no "culture" so they immigrating to our lands is a horrible mistake.

If all Finns would become half niggers then we would not be Finns anymore and that's the end for our heritage and culture.

So stop immigration today!

Tourists can come, and white people are welcomed to move in and integrate to our society, as long as there are not some flood of people into here.

Ancient Finnish Proverb:

"He who farts in Church, sits in own Pew"

We have a bad somali-problem in Finlad. Somali-people don't acsept our rules and they want that Finland bee an islamic country. Situation is chaotic.

Thank you for your articles. It has been interesting to read what kind of topics you have chosen. One interesting place would be the Wolf Cave cavern in Western Finland. The current interpretation is that the cavern has been occupied by humans before the last Ice Age, more than 120 000 years ago. The investigations are expected to continue still for several years. Maybe you will write about it some time? Link:http://www.susiluola.com/Wolf/eng.htm

The Finnish language is totally different from Indo-European languages (German, Baltic, Slavic, Romanic etc). It's a branch of the Finno-Ugric languages and its closest major relative is Estonian. The vast majority of Finns descend from two immigration waves occurring about 4,000 and 2,000 years ago. The earlier wave involved eastern Uralic speakers, and the later wave, Indo-European speakers from the south. The genetic origins of Finns are mainly West-Europeans, but the old language of fishermen and hunters has remained. Link: http://www.findis.org/main.php?action=disease

Next time, visit the autonomous island-province of Åland, the Archipelago of South-West Finland, Saimaa Lake District and Lapland.
Kiitos!

Thank you for your articles. It has been interesting to read what kind of topics you have chosen. One interesting place would be the Wolf Cave cavern in Western Finland. The current interpretation is that the cavern has been occupied by humans before the last Ice Age, more than 120 000 years ago. The investigations are expected to continue still for several years. Maybe you will write about it some time? Link:http://www.susiluola.com/Wolf/eng.htm

The Finnish language is totally different from Indo-European languages (German, Baltic, Slavic, Romanic etc). It's a branch of the Finno-Ugric languages and its closest major relative is Estonian. The vast majority of Finns descend from two immigration waves occurring about 4,000 and 2,000 years ago. The earlier wave involved eastern Uralic speakers, and the later wave, Indo-European speakers from the south. The genetic origins of Finns are mainly West-Europeans, but the old language of fishermen and hunters has remained. Link: http://www.findis.org/main.php?action=disease

Next time, visit the autonomous island-province of Åland, the Archipelago of South-West Finland, Saimaa Lake District and Lapland.
Kiitos!

This is a funny clip from Finland including sauna and a normal finnish man. This could be almost true ;D

http://www.plugi.fi/paasivu/perkele11.avi (DivX)

To Mickey Santa Monica, CA

Thank you for your appreciation of us Finnish women. It is nice to hear that you have enjoyed the time spent here. Welcome again.

And my sincere apologies to all for my fellow country (wo)men who make the whole nation seem like retards with these ancient fighting topics.

Älkää nolatko meitä suomalaisia enempää täällä vaan siirtäkää iänikuiset taistelunne kotimaisille sivuille, kiitos.

The corrupt racist snakes of the Swedish People's Party have again censored a national newspaper's internet discussion forum about compulsory swedish and apartheid in Finland.

The censor has stopped any more messages from being posted and there a message at the top "viestiketju on lukittu" This is Finnish language and it means the discussion thread is closed. That discussion thread about compulsory swedish was the most popular, and outnumbered the other discussions by ten to one.

See here at the top for the example of censorship by apartheidists. http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/keskustelu/thread.jspa?threadID=2931&tstart=0'

Wow... First I thought Finland is just some very nordig country. But it is SO much more than that! Thank you to lighting me up. And Hyva Kesaa!! :D:D:D

Too bad you didn't write anything about Tampere, but maybe next time. ;-)

Thank you for a job well done!

(Seems like the normal forum anywhere in the web - crackpot invasion and all that. Nothing special :-7)

First, I want to say that I appreciate this effort of trying to write about my country. I assume that the journalists do understand that they were treated as guests, not just like anybody else. Still, the articles seem to be of high quality. Of course, to Finnish eye, they may seem somewhat too "happy". We like even our news serious 8-)

Second: Various writers have referred to Finland and racism. There is racism is Finland in some extent, just like anywhere and we have our share of "skinheads", ultranationalists and drunken brawlers looking for an excuse to fight. However, claiming that all Finns _in general_ are racist, is about as correct as claiming that all Americans are Ku Klux Klan members. Discrimination based on race or nationality works both ways.

As far as integration to Finland is concerned:

Customs are different in different countries and those coming to the country should understand that. Finns are prepared to respect the customs in other countries but also expect the same in return.

Learning the language always helps. Finns are usually willing to help if you try to use and learn Finnish.

Many foreigners seem to think that Finns are cold and insular. The fact is, Finns do not usually talk to people they do not know

(People from Savo being a notable exception - some of them even talk to people who, after that, do not want to know _them_ :-) ).

That's not hostility - the Finn just do not know what you could talk about unless you have a common interest (business meeting, convention, etc). And demanding people just irritate them. Finns in general are not boisterous or loud - unless very drunk.

(That also relates to Finnish men who do not approach women. They do not know how to begin, especially if they are looking for something else than a one-night stand. After all, women have their own prefences. Unless they are so drunk they are incoherent - and you have already guessed the result of _that_ encounter.)

That being said, where the immigrant comes from matters a great deal. Russia has been an old enemy, not only from the WW2, and that colors Finnish attitude to them. Cheap labor from eastern europe is seen as a threat to Finnish jobs, just like elsewhere in Europe (and the fact that some.construction companies have hired workers from China has increased those concerns). Somalians, unfortunately, still have a reputation connected to female circumcision and some other african immigrants may be mistaken for them. Asians may be mistaken for Vietnamese.

Add that the fact that some unemployed Finns think that any aid to foreign immigrants means that authorities show preference towards them. That, and the fact that industry wants more immigrants when there is significant unemployment, has turned many against immigration. As far as they can see, industry wants cheap foreign labour instead of paying a living wage to Finnish workers.

That is hardly the fault of an individual immigrant - they are just looking for a living. And often unaware of the reason for the hostility they may encounter.

Swedish still have a reputation as "bättre folk", "better people" with higher education and uppity attitudes. Part of this is historical baggage connected to 800 years of Swedish rule, part modern attitudes to Swedish government.

The most extreme Finns (as represented in this page) resent anything that would even remind them of Sweden, including the Swedish minority in the west oast of Finland and schools' Swedish training. The fact that there are similar people in Sweden and the west coast (with claims that Finnish is not language suitable for literature, for example) does not exactly help matters. Crackpottery works both ways, as well.

As far as I can see, Vietnamese refugees in Finland have more or less adapted to Finnish life, possibly due to their willingness to respect the interests of the community. When they first came to Finland years ago, the common reaction was almost universally negative. They apparently learned the rules and number of young men even joined the military service (one of them unfortunately died during his service). That was not an easy time. Nowadays they are mostly law-abiding citizens who occasionally visit their country of origin. Even tabloids do not pester them with headlines any more - though they undoubtedly have their own problems.

Some of the African refugees have done the same. I recently encountered an African youth in the uniform of my old regiment. Their service cannot be easy. Some of those who have gained the citizenship have attended elections as candidates.

After all that, there is only the one boring latitude to say:

No country is a paradise. We just have to try our best.

"Add that the fact that some unemployed Finns think that any aid to foreign immigrants means that authorities show preference towards them. "

The authorities give several times more money to them. That is a clear sign of a preference.
Unemployed Finn, like me, from a bad part of town, never got the money, never will get the money, has to steal for a living, will end up in jail for that. The chances the immigrants have are a lot better than an unemployed Finn has.

"The most extreme Finns (as represented in this page) resent anything that would even remind them of Sweden, including the Swedish minority in the west oast of Finland and schools' Swedish training."

You have problems.
Why is there the need for Swedish training in Finnish schools except for the Swedes' desire, very old one, too, to enslave the Finns ?

"The most extreme Finns (as represented in this page) resent anything that would even remind them of Sweden, including the Swedish minority in the west oast of Finland and schools' Swedish training."

Swedes had the world's first racial biology faculty which found Finns to be lesser race. Before and after the nazi Germany sterilized people, Swedes did the same. The same regime is still in power in Sweden.

And Finns are more and more under their rule.
All have to study their language and culture.

I would advise all non-aryans, including Finns to leave the country a.s.a.p.

LV wrote:
(Seems like the normal forum anywhere in the web - crackpot invasion and all that. Nothing special :-7)

i have to agree. i didn't know there were this many intellectually challenged finnish people in finland. and i live here.

maybe we should build a reservation for all these anti-swedish, racist hypocondriacs to live in and feel (at that point, for a good reason) oppressed.

Foreigners, if any here really do not really believe that apartheid bullshit. Language situation is not comparable with the treatment blacks received in south africa.
But what irritates me in Finland is the complete common attitude of being superior than any other nation on earth.

But quite similar the colored received. Apartheid is a word that describes the situation well.

"The genetic origins of Finns are mainly West-Europeans, but the old language of fishermen and hunters has remained."

Those who moved into Finland were peaceful people and adapted the culture of the originals.
Those who speak Swedish are a very different people. Less than five percent of them and yet they force all others to speak their language.

There was discussion earlier about BBC and their banning of some subject-matter:

It seems the english tax-payers have employed a "finland-swede" in their bbc world tv-channel thus making sure the decision makers', the top 5%'s opinions are well presented:

Text-tv page 133 (BBC World):

They tell in English what European big newspapers have to say:

From Finland: "Jakobstadt Tidning" which not too surprisingly, being in swedish, takes a strong opinion for the employers in the trade dispute where the workers want to continue having holidays during the Christmas and Juhannus breaks and let the factories be maintained during the time.

I do not know where where Jakobstadt is and do not care but cannot be too large a town and apparently not Finnish at all.

For some time there has been only Swedish newspapers representing Finland.

"Foreigners, if any here really do not really believe that apartheid bullshit. Language situation is not comparable with the treatment blacks received in south africa."
Obviously you are a swede or what you like call yourself in finnish, finland-swede.

"But what irritates me in Finland is the complete common attitude of being superior than any other nation on earth."
Finns consider themselves lower than any other western nation, above the eastern/southern ones, except the succesful ones such as Japan/Australia.
But you have spent time only with other swedes so you do not know what Finns think of people. When the swedes consider themselves superior, that does not mean the finns would.

Posted by: A finn | June 27, 2005 11:35 AM

"Asians may be mistaken for Vietnamese."

But you think wrongly about the conception of Vietnamese. They have always been respected by the Finns. Maybe if you live in a swedish-speaking area the conception is very different.
The Chinese and the Japanese are respected as well.

Swedes too are respected (but not liked, for reasons that are obvious, respected like a mob boss they are), Canadians and Australians are liked, not hated by anyone. Germans are liked but will see a nazi salute for sure, same for Austrians. Russians are generally not liked. Black are not hated but not liked by all, same with southernmost europeans, towards the french, belgians etc., most are indifferent, they are in about the same position as finns themselves (women do like them too as they are foreign), americans - not too many of them around, so cannot tell how people think of them. I dont remember ever seeing one in this town.

-Being male, I can only speak for males, females have different opinions, some of them think the southern europeans are really cute and african much cuter etc.

Ugly, ugly history.

"SWEDEN: NEUTRAL IN NAME, PARTISAN IN PRACTICE"

http://www.college-prep.org/academics/history/markel/sweden.htm

Putting things in perspective:
About the peoples attitudes and foreigners:
In most of Finland, those from Helsinki are liked less than any foreigners.

Finland gets most erasmus students of any EU country (intra-eu-exchange students) per capita/year - for a reason. Its dull, but it is safe, too, for foreigners.

"
Posted by: jenni_amerikkalainen | June 13, 2005 12:03 PM,
The racism you speak about in the U.S. probably came around because Finns moved, buying tickets to ships with, near the other Nordics who hated them and told untrue stories about them.

They still do that. Probably is still not a good idea for you to tell you have Finnish origins in some parts of the world, at least if there are Nordics around. The ways they use to opress change but their mentality stays the same.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman33.html
"
----
Thing is, it is not the same with all the nordics. Even if you see them somewhere Danes and Icelandics do not feel the need to come talk to you, like other Nordics, which in turn will reveal their anti-Finnish aspirations. Swedes are all around and they sometimes do, as do Norwegians, of whom there are happily none in Finland. They are more anti-Finland than Swedes but also there is less of them around so Finns have a ridiculously positive picture of them, thinking they are a friendly northern country like Canada is.

So to avoid are mostly the neighboring countries' people who actually can decide to show how tough they are to unsuspecting Finns without warning, not others. Those who been in U.S. for generations have often forgotten who they should hate so it is not such a big problem with them, but those who are 1st generation, should be avoided. Finnish government should have similar travel warnings etc. as the US one has (say you're canadian etc.) but the difference is, finland is not independent, but under swedish rule so they do not tell the truths.

"If all Finns would become half niggers then we would not be Finns anymore and that's the end for our heritage and culture.

So stop immigration today!"

It is only a matter of time when that happens anyhow. The survival of Finland depends on the number of babies, not on who makes them. If black people make lots of babies with Finnish women, that means there is more Finns. IF no black people come, no babies. Germany already has a declining population.

Contraceptives should be banned and the church should either join the Catholic church or greatly alter it's policies so that Finland would survive.

So what I meant to say, the women do not want to make babies with white men, so why not bring black men to them ?

"The idea that travelling Americans [or their readers] ought to imagine that the Finnish are living in a fairly tale land where their exorbitant tax rates have created a society these writers "

The society is nice for the middle-class dumb people who believe in it. Not for those below them who do not get the "benefits".

"clearly believe is superior to their own is an unfortunate, if altogether increasingly common, exercise in liberal American self-loathing.

Yours,
Patrick Cullen
An American Ex-Pat in London"

It is more of a travel documentary, not an article in an encyclopaedia.

There are areas in Finland (as elsewhere) where people do not come open their doors unless you call them first. Before there was phones people had special known-only-to-friends knocks (for example, "knock-pause-knockknock"+ once doorbell) on doors so they would know it is safe to open and still they came to door with weapons.

To the Anonymous guy ranting on about BBC and not knowing where Jakobstadt is:
Jakobstadt is Pietarsaari in Finnish and it's on the west coast a little south of Kokkola (Karleby in Swedish). You probably know Pietarsaari of their football team Jaro.

To the Anonymous guy ranting on about BBC and not knowing where Jakobstadt is:
Jakobstadt is Pietarsaari in Finnish and it's on the west coast a little south of Kokkola (Karleby in Swedish). You probably know Pietarsaari of their football team Jaro.

To the Anonymous guy ranting on about BBC and not knowing where Jakobstadt is:
Jakobstadt is Pietarsaari in Finnish and it's on the west coast a little south of Kokkola (Karleby in Swedish). You probably know Pietarsaari of their football team Jaro.

An extreme feminist writes:

"Before I was married,I was an extreme feminist.
I am a single mother of two. When I decided to leave my marriage,
(I was bored), I went to three different lawyers for advice.

I was asked by all 3 of them if I was ever abused by my husband.
My answer was, never in any way shape or form was my husband abusive towards me.
To my utter disbelief, all of them told me the same thing.
Unless I accused my husband of abuse, I would not gain sole custody of my children.
They also told me that by making these allegations against him, that I
would get EVERYTHING and more.

When I asked them how we would prove the allegations,
I was told that the courts don't require proof, and to go
to a women's shelter, and that they would help me,
and that it would support my allegations of abuse."

---------------------
So all those means were in Lahti, Finland
used too.

An extreme feminist writes:

"Before I was married,I was an extreme feminist.
I am a single mother of two. When I decided to leave my marriage,
(I was bored), I went to three different lawyers for advice.

I was asked by all 3 of them if I was ever abused by my husband.
My answer was, never in any way shape or form was my husband abusive towards me.
To my utter disbelief, all of them told me the same thing.
Unless I accused my husband of abuse, I would not gain sole custody of my children.
They also told me that by making these allegations against him, that I
would get EVERYTHING and more.

When I asked them how we would prove the allegations,
I was told that the courts don't require proof, and to go
to a women's shelter, and that they would help me,
and that it would support my allegations of abuse."

---------------------
So all those means were in Lahti, Finland
used too.

An extreme feminist writes:

"Before I was married,I was an extreme feminist.
I am a single mother of two. When I decided to leave my marriage,
(I was bored), I went to three different lawyers for advice.

I was asked by all 3 of them if I was ever abused by my husband.
My answer was, never in any way shape or form was my husband abusive towards me.
To my utter disbelief, all of them told me the same thing.
Unless I accused my husband of abuse, I would not gain sole custody of my children.
They also told me that by making these allegations against him, that I
would get EVERYTHING and more.

When I asked them how we would prove the allegations,
I was told that the courts don't require proof, and to go
to a women's shelter, and that they would help me,
and that it would support my allegations of abuse."

---------------------
So all those means were in Lahti, Finland
used too.

something faulty
makes it treply

"So what I meant to say, the women do not want to make babies with white men, so why not bring black men to them ?"

A country controlled or colonialized by the swedes to the extent everybody must speak their useless language- women do not want to make babies in no matter who with.
If Finns cared the least bit about their women, they would send all who want out, out of Europe, when they become the age to make children.

Omg, no wonder people think that we are racists! I mean who are there people that think that the swedish party wants to take over Finland and make everyone speak Swedish?! They dont, I know Swedish speaking finns and trust me, they hate Sweden just as must as the rest. Its the little brother complex. Every country needs to make jokes about other contries.

And fine, dont learn Swedish in schools. It just means that you will not understand people around you, in Sweden, in Norway and in Denmark. It also makes it easier to understand the rest of Europe. We should be proud that we learn two languges. No one is telling Canadians not to speak French or something. Sighs, I fear that everyone has gone mad around here. So dont learn Swedish and the Swedes here will not learn Finnish. It has been said that it's the most difficult language to learn so why should they learn it then. I mean they live in their villages and havent seen a Finn in ages. Or is it not you that are apartheid and want to suppress a minorioty. Because it's not you that suffer, come one man. To know more languagés is better. We can't isolate ourselves.

Oh and write a lot of %¤(%#( about me, I dare you. I will not come back and see you still going on how the Swedes want to throw you out of the country.

To all international readers (if any are left):
An apology for the idiot extremists who've somehow found this blog.

I don't know what rock they've crawled under from, I haven't heard that drivel since the 7th grade.

I hope you won't form your opinions of us based on them.

Thanks for the nice writings WP!

Thank you for these great articles, it was nice to see Finland in a different view.

These comments amaze me. People seem to get on a personal level instead of giving their views of the things in Finland.

If you come to a country that´s different from your own, you should try to get into that country. And that takes a lot of time. If you only see the negative things, of course people are going to say that it´s not all that bad. You put people on defence if you accuse them as the opening of the convorsation.

There are many habbits that can cause missunderstandings and it is not a bad thing to point them out politely, if you wish to help someone to find their place in Finland. Because it can be just little things. E.G. My friend´s boyfriend wanted to pay for all of us when we were in a restaurant. I would not let my boyfriend pay for me and definately not someone elses. The offering that he made with good intentions made me annoyed for a second, because I can support myself.

I don´t understand why Swedish should be compulsory in Finland, as there are the 3 % who speak Swedish as their mother tongue (correct me if I´m wrong).It takes time to learn a language and in my opinion there are far more useful languages to learn. I´d like to have the option open, so that you could learn a language you wish to learn, rather than to learn a language you´ll never use after graduation and one you have no interest in.

The offering that he made with good intentions made me annoyed for a second, because I can support myself.
**
Finnish women do, in my experience over the years, expect male to pay even in the case the male is out of work and female makes lots of money.
(BTW, that is the reason I cannot afford a female)

"And fine, dont learn Swedish in schools. It just means that you will not understand people around you, in Sweden, in Norway and in Denmark. It also makes it easier to"

Who would want to ? There are things one is better off without: the nazism of sweden (read above: links to pages which tell of their continued nazism after the war and before the german nazism); the church-burning metal of norway (not for paganism but for their own beliefs) etc.

"understand the rest of Europe. We should be proud that we learn two languges. No one is telling Canadians not to speak French or something."

Very different, not comparable at all. France is a significant country and they will be largest in Europe as their population rises.

Why no French in Finland at all ? Most schools it is not available whereas Swedish is compulsary. Why no Spanish, why no Chinese - the answer: we must study Swedish so that we know who we must obey.
There is no need whatsoever for it but everyone must study it. In one sentence:
BOW, PEASANT, OR DIE!

"I went to three different lawyers for advice."

The Japanese live long. They drink. They smoke. so should not live long if you listen to health advide..

But they drink and smoke away from home.
So not listening to a nagging wife = live long.

BOW, PEASANT, OR DIE!
-
More likely and correctly:
Bow, slave, or die !

they are 6 %

Less than five but got the power. It is not unique in the world but is unique in E.U.

Thing with Finns and Swedes with political power is that they do not know how to be reasonable: they could not care less about those others who are not in their group.

Swedes: Are given huge subsidies to keep up their language and force all others to talk it too.

Farmers: Get huge subsidies, would be cheaper to give them all 10x their earnings and bring food from elsewhere but that would be sensible and they are not.

Women-in-power: Older women who do not like younger women as they still get some or men as the young men they want are mostly rather without than with old women so want prostitution - that is, young women, criminalized just like they already have criminalized men.

BTW, "went to three different lawyers for advice." not a woman posting such: feminist women do not get men as men are not that stupid to take a feminist. A man can be desperate but not that desperate.

Of course there is also the money-power which can decide and do anything it wants, the rich people. But they often do not want to.

"You probably know Pietarsaari of their football team Jaro."

I dont.
Soccer not being a sport I watched. Is it as good as Allianssi, only one I have heard of recently ?

Powers, money, women:
As long as the young women have the right about deciding about their body instead of giving it for free to ugly old men who want the young p...., or giving it for free for the "friend" who asked visit for a movie and decided it's just the same to force it with drugs as to buy some as both are illegal:

http://www.sihteeriopisto.net
and "oppilaat"
http://www.sihteeriopisto.net/?lang_so=eng&
in english

Finland, the women have the power in most social classes. Only the upmost classes have it in reverse.

I'm a Dane having been married to a Finn for some 20 years, but never lived in Finland and in my work having had much more to do with the European continent/Western Europe. I appreciate the articles very much, and think that they give a very true picture that totally fits with my experience.

Without intending to sound critical, and very well understanding the problems facing journalists from the US, I would however like to add the comment that I as a European miss the aspects of comparison with other nearby countries. European nations are BOTH different and similar, of course, but the reader is not much informed about what's uniquely Finnish and what's rather typically Scandinavian or Lutheran or Western European.

This year we had reason to spend eight saved vacation weeks in Finland in May and June. Although the actual reason for this extended stay, that was the longest time I've yet spent in Finland, was a somewhat sad family event, I will remember it as a very beautiful and positive experience.

It was also a a clear indicator to me that Finland really seems to have changed much more in 20 years than I suspect my native Denmark to have. The general Finnish relationship to other nearby nations, including the Swedish and the Russian, is today a lot more relaxed than it was when I first learned to know Finland and the Finns. I do also find it a lot easier today than 20 years ago to be a non-Finnish speaking visitor or tourist in Finland. Service personell in particular, but also people in general, are now a lot more prepared to help you out in foreign languages. I have the impression that the Finns very quickly left their inferiority feelings at the first opportunity, while we in Denmark still cling on to ours.

If I had had children to raise today, I would have been very much inclined to take my family to Helsinki or some other town in Southern Finland - and learned the languages (BOTH languages - Swedish hopefully being a piece of cake for us Danes). It is not only the schools that are better in Finland. The Finnish society seems to me to be a lot more adaptable, which gives me the feeling that Finland may be the right place to be in when the world changes.

Besides, I very much appreciate how Finnish relations to people being somehow different (like foreigners or believers of other confessions) are much more relaxed and acceptingly inclusive than in Denmark, Norway, Germany, or even in the Netherlands.

"a racist" made a good comment about how he/she wants to keep things as they are. I really don´t get this "we must become multicultural!" drive. Where does it say being multicultural is some kind of heaven? In what way multiculturalism beats the situation as it is now? Please do not say "they make our society richer", that is just total crap.
Just look at the other European countries, how intence the situation is there, muslims murdering people who dare to criticize their abusing way of life. Immigrants blowing up themselves with innocent people etc. People with different ethnic backrounds and religions do not mix!!!
The number of them (refugees/immigrants) who can merge into western society is so small that it isn´t even worth to mention, rest of them live in ghettos dreaming how they will change the country (from which they are freeloading) to similar kind of society as from they have been fleeing. The total disrespect of the culture, ways and language of the hosting country is amazing. Also, please do not say that i´m biggot who don´t know anything since this attitude is right from the "refugees" which i have encountered here in Finland, from africans and muslims (i´ve actually heard one muslim say that their things back home were soooo much more better than here, strangely this one had to flee from this soooo amazing country).
Don´t get me wrong, into some extent it is good to have "foreing" people here, BUT, the important issue is that THEY make the effort to become finns (learn language, obey our rules), not us making effort to bend over backwards to please them and have their traditions put forward before ours. A good example is from Helsinki, where a kindergarted decided not to celebrate christmas because there were couple of muslim kids there!!! Total disgrace!!! Again, do you think such action would have happened in a muslim country!!???
Like someone said, "when in Rome, do as the romans do".
I really think we should follow the US way in the immigrant issue, we should just take those with some education who have atleast a potential in merging into society.
About the article, were the reporters in any way interested in the ww2 situation from finnish side, since this year it has been 60 years from D-day? I´m asking this since most of the finnish issues were handled in these series but not the history if i´m correct.

" People with different ethnic backrounds and religions do not mix!!! "

I'm sorry, I'm not from Finland. I am a beautiful African American female dating the most wonderful man, who happens to be a Finn.

Racism seems to be in Finland like anywhere else.

I do have a question to pose, however...

If multi-culturalism is not desired, why on earth was there such a push by various European nations to conquer the world? What was the actual intention? To kill everyone else off and only leave the Europeans? (I guess that wasn't in God's plans.)

If anyone believes in God, I would like you to examine what He believes about all of His creation. A person should be judged on who they are as an individual.

I was asked by my fiancee's mother, if my ancestors were slaves. She was suprised to find that in Louisiana, my family had one of the very few and rare black-owned plantations, and is also a state monument/ museum to this day. (Melrose Plantation)

If I was of Jewish decsent, I wonder, if she would have asked me the same question. I wonder why with all the supposed oppression Finns have experienced from Swedes, why on earth their hearts wouldn't be motivated to LOVE.

I was offended at first by her question, but I was committed to turn the other cheek, as my God teaches me. Love is what brought me and Hannu together, and I won't let ignorance tear it down. He supports me 100%, and I love him even more for that.

Africans do have a culture... It is the oldest culture in the world. If Africans had the foresight like Asians to unify, the world we see today might be completely different. Africans built the pyramids and many other great civilizations. Aside from Neanderthals, Africans are the cradle of ALL mankind and civilizations. With all the fantastic education Finns have, it seems that they would have been able to research a bit more TRUTH.

And also, my relationship with his mother seems to be improving, and she invites us for sauna regularly.

Everything takes time, but with patience and PRAYER, mankind will learn to love one another and accept one another.

We really are all ONE.

None of the post on here will deter me from visiting Finnland this year.

I can understand the fear of Finns not wanting to mix and lose their heritage. That is very understandable. But the answer is not racism. And the answer is not going to come over night. Most people would love to learn your culture if you wouldn't be so "Swedish" about it...

"If I was of Jewish decsent, I wonder, if she would have asked me the same question."

Probably would have asked if many of your family were killed during the war.
There is no active racism against jews in Finland or I have never heard of such, but none of them live in small towns. If any did, there most probably would be.

"I wonder why with all the supposed oppression Finns have experienced from Swedes"

Not supposed but very real. The official line is to pretend it does not and has not happened. It is not okay to even talk about it.

"I am a beautiful African American female dating the most wonderful man, who happens to be a Finn."

In Finland there is a lot more racism against black females than black males as some of the Finnish women are, often at the same time, racist against black women and _like_ the black men. Men tend to be quiet about such matters in the presence of people of color but women have different rules of conduct. In other words, often do not know how to act. Men cannot tell women "this is how you should act like" - women can tell the same to men.

"A good example is from Helsinki, where a kindergarted decided not to celebrate christmas because there were couple of muslim kids there!!! Total disgrace!!!"

Personally I am all for such restrictions: there is a lot of religional talk in christmas plays and in practising for them: of course it is okay to tell fairy tales to children but they are told as tales, not as the only truth acceptable as religion is; but do not believe that really happened, maybe some newspaper only wanted to make a story to shock the religious people. They never cared about the atheist kids, not many but there are some, so why a couple of muslims would make a difference ?

I was not implying that Finns were prejudiced against Jews. In Jewish history (in the Bible), it is recorded that they had been slaves for over 400 years in Egypt.

In other words, in the history of the world, the African man is not the only man to have ever been a slave. And this world as it is today, has happened virtually overnight in the GRAND SCOPE OF THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. It is still just a very minute detail, and constantly evolving. Asian world powers could be the next to dominate.

Anyone who is oppressed would show a little empathy and compassion to other cultures that are also oppressed.

Many African Americans are well-educated these days. Doctors, lawyers, scientists...etc This American world power would not exist had it not been for the numerous contributions of African Americans. It would not exist had it not been for the institution of slavery. However, the media is still very biased against African Americans, and likes to build up a certain fear against us--especially black men.

All African Americans don't live in ghetto's and on welfare. Not all white Americans are wealthy and well-educated. Many live in trailer parks and are on welfare-- or walking the streets homeless. And many African Americans DO have white neighbors. (I have Chinese, and white neighbors.)

A good movie to watch... is Micheal Moore's "Bowling for Columbine". He is very unbiased.

"Anyone who is oppressed would show a little empathy and compassion to other cultures that are also oppressed."

Not necessarily. There are countries where there are oppressed classes which are against each other as well. In some purposedly so the ruling classes can stay in power.

In Finland the classes when divided by origin go as follows, lower is lower:

- Scandinavians and Finland-Swedes - Icelanders and Danes are lower than Swedes, Finland-Swedes and Norwegians
- Finns and western europeans
- Lapps and some eastern europeans
- Eastern europeans, some europeans with darker skin
- Far eastern people
- Blacks
- Gypsies
It could be noted that the women think of thai women and russian women as the worst, because of whorehouses, there are a lot of thai massage places, men think black men and gypsies (both sexes) to be the worst.

In Sweden and in finland-swedish thinking the Finns would be somewhere between blacks and far eastern people though there the blacks are considered higher than Finns.

"All African Americans don't live in ghetto's and on welfare. Not all white Americans are wealthy and well-educated. Many live in trailer parks and are on welfare-- or walking the streets homeless"

Read somewhere that if you count together murders and suicides the african americans are better off than Finns. Lots of murders but not many suicides among the african-americans and vice versa for the Finns.
Eastern europeans have both high murder and suicide rates as their governments are not developed yet.

"And many African Americans DO have white neighbors."

How about the schools ? In Finland the Swedish-speaking usually go to their own schools, is that the same with the whites in the U.S. ? (Generalizing of course as there naturally are huge amounts of towns and different situations)

The asians of chinese descent are supposed to have passed the whites in income in the U.S. and the U.K. Do not remember where I read that, maybe it is because only the top of the society can afford to travel abroad. In distant future there is no reason why the blacks would not be able to do that as well.

I think this forum has given me a lot of food for thought in how progressive Finnish people are as a whole, and how much pride and love for their heritage is respected. Every society has their issues and problems, but I am especially liking Finnish culture...

Especially the SAUNA experience! It's very relaxing, soothing, (and alone with my sweetheart, can be very erotic)...

I have so much respect and love for him and his culture, and can not wait to visit Finland for myself. Hopefully I will be able to break away from work for an entire month-- that's the plan...

And he really enjoys my Creole Louisiana culture as well. I brought him with me to my family reunion at Melrose Plantation (which is now a museum), and he had a wonderful time, learning about all the histories and things that are still not taught in schools... But that day is changing.

We just have to accept one another, love one another, and keep open arms towards the future...

Only watching TV, I would estimate California/NY could be about 50 years ahead of Finland.
Helsinki is about 10 years ahead of the rest of the country here and New Yorkers probably had about as many cars 50 years ago as Finns now (I do not know at all) and the society could somehow reflect the affluence too.

"Hopefully I will be able to break away from work for an entire month-- that's the plan..."

Probably best to visit during the summer. Winters are cold. Some like them though.

All of Europe is lots of years behind the US and the gap is increasing all the time.
There is two kinds of progress: positive and negative and Europe is going to the negative direction all the time. Finland is probably about in the middle if you think about the countries in Europe.

Get out of Europe if you can, if not: move to Ireland or France: they still make children and thus have a future.

Blacks, Finns:
old ones had school books: blacks
merry things
young: too politically corrupt tv:
nowadays theres fresh prince,
etc.
too good to be true;
young finns,
rap music,
2nd after heavy metal:
look up to blacks:
as many = skins = do not exactly like them

Three years ago
I was lynched by a Lahti police.
When I read only a book with my 9 year old
daughter and had an ex-tempore discussion

"how to become a mother" at a mother`s day.
We did not talked about sex, no emotions,
no feelings, but only facts of the book text and pictures.

My ex-wife made second time a false accusation of sexual abuse now to police.
That I had forced our daughter to watch
a porn video.
But we had only read the book about
birth and grow, Joe Kaufman:
How We Are Born.
So this police wrote his report what that
woman wrote in a letter to police, asking
nothing about his well known book.

So I was sentenced by Lahti court
for 3 months imprisonment for
this false accusation.
And Lahti legal aid acting as a "doctor".

Now it has been already over 3 years
I could not meet my own daughter, because
her mother do not let and no any
Lahti authorities would help us only
Lahti distraint office put in the bailiffs
already paid by me maintenance money,
so my ex-wife receives douple allowances
by lying.
So all well in winter sport city Lahti!

"So I was sentenced by Lahti court
for 3 months imprisonment for
this false accusation."

Don't worry, other towns are not different. it is the same everywhere, but in Finland it is the Finns who are treated badly as the country is not exactly independent.
Did you watch recent news about the English police shooting an innocent man because of his looks ?
Americans at least revolt when that happens,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King - Finns do nothing http://www.yelah.net/articles/osmo
- the brasilian government, too, seems to be more of a man than any of the Finns in power, at least protesting about the death.

"Read somewhere that if you count together murders and suicides the african americans are better off than Finns."

The difference between the whites and the blacks' life expectancy in america:
http://www.asaging.org/at/at-192/minoritygap.html
"for African-American males, the difference in life expectancy at age 20 is 6.5 years less than for white males, while life expectancy for black women is about a half-year shy of that for their white counterparts.)"
http://www.kunnat.net/k_perussivu.asp?path=1;29;353;70088;58094;54767
Finland, by town - "finland-swedes" live a lot longer.

When Finns move out of Nordic countries, they tend to live as long as everybody else in the country.
Only in Finland and Nordic countries there is such a difference that Finns live less.

"So all well in winter sport city Lahti!"

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say "former winter sport city?"

Finns like to read about what people in the US have and they can't have. Finns over analyze everything which makes it impossible for Finland to advance culturally, economically, and most importantly socially.

In response to earlier posting about moving to France or Ireland. I would like to advocate Spain. Spain has advanced in the last 10 years more than most other European countries in the last 30 years. Notwithstanding the last terrorist sponsored election fiasco, Spain is less socialist than northern Europe. Of course you have to speak Spanish, because most people in Spain unfortunately don't speak English yet.
This advice is of course for those who can't move to the Land of the Free.

"Finns over analyze everything which makes it impossible for Finland to advance culturally, economically, and most importantly socially."

Have not met many who did so. About the above comments about the so-called justice system: tends to be one's social class is the determining factor in who goes to jail or not: there are factories and building sites as well as bad areas of towns where everyone been to prison, most for reason, lots for no reason, because of the low social standing. I do not know if that is the same elsewhere too but I suspect that is the case in most countries at least.

"Spain has advanced in the last 10 years more than most other European countries in the last 30 years."

There still is high unemployment: on paper higher than Finland and in reality almost as high, it would probably be easier to move to U.S. for most.

Because of the availability of non-tax-paying jobs there (Spain) probably is easier for locals to find jobs than for locals in Finland but for a foreigner who moves in it could be harder.

Some know people who live there and thus can find jobs but unless one does, it would be easier to move to U.S.

Most Finns, however, do not desire to move anywhere as they know of no better, have not been around much, want to be near people they already know or lack the language skills needed.

Moving without money:
go to a nursing or engineering school (4 years) in Finland or elsewhere, work for a year, move to U.S.
That easy.

moving with money: buy a business where you want to move - very easy.

Blacks vs. Finns (continued)

Lots of the (poor) african-americans have to go to military. Ever since swedish king decided Finns are best get rid of by forcing them be cannon fodder, all have had to go to the military. Except those who live in Åland which is populated by ethnic Swedes.
- By taking away the costs of having two languages and agricultural subsidies there would be enough money for a strong professional army.

The americans also get paid for going to army. Even the poor Finns get traditionally the same as others: about the price of a pack of cigarettes a day. The americans also mostly spend their military in the south, not in alaska.

Reason Russians attacked Finland during the last millennium was the lack of firepower, not lack of men.
The cost of one man in the army is huge: he is not working, so (average pay is about 3000 euros, total taxes more than half) state loses 1500 euros/month/man. Quite a lot of grenades could be bought for the price.

"So I was sentenced by Lahti court
for 3 months imprisonment for
this false accusation."

I do not know about the american police but am under the impression the european police is corrupt from top to bottom. Interpol does as money says, as does the police on the streets. Maybe it was always so or maybe the guys selling drugs, of which there are more in Europe than in America, bought them and nobody honest wants to be one.

For getting out for all those who are able to:

http://www.immi.gov.au/
Australian governmental pages.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/
Canadian governmental pages.

Do not know if it is any better there, never been to either. Anyone under 25 should try to get out. Europe is slowly going to it's grave.

Those two countries are also told to be more of "welfare" state than Finland is, there is less murders and suicides than in Finland and the standard of living is higher. Australia is warm and from Canada it is easy to move to U.S.
Finnish schools do not usually bother tell pupils but some of the well-off find out from relatives (usually) that almost all european countries (including english-speaking ones, the schools only mention england having expensive schools) have free schools with no entrance exams so the right age to leave the country would be right after school, the better-off know that, the worse-off do not. In most countries it is also cheaper to study than in Finland and many take such to schools and even universities, who went to trade schools instead of high schools, so lots of Finns throw out their lives as they are not aware there is an alternative to being unemployed. The government does not like Finns so nothing can be done: before the internet almost nobody knew it is possible and easy to leave the country for good.

police is corrupt from top to bottom
**
Big brother or stasi was not always there, only in the last 20 years it been there, bribe or lie to one about someone, s(he)'ll always be in the records, for all the world police, for anyone other interested, to see, to make sure the life is over, thank computers and databases.

Europe is slowly going to it's grave.
**
It's there already.

moving with money: buy a business where you want to move - very easy.
**
Some countries needs to of a reasonable size and in some, including Finland, which could be quite an extreme example though, that alone does not give citizenship. A kiosk is not enough. A pub/restaurant or a car rental business etc. could well be.

I am a Black Finn (Finnish mother, Jamaican father) and I am deeply offended by the Fazer liquorice 'Sambo' caricature of a big-lipped, wide-eyed, wooly-haired and ear-ringed Black man and the 'nigger kiss' Brunberg biscuits. Like the 'gollywog' image on the Robertson jam jars in Britain that upset so many people, they should be removed if Finland is truly committed to multiculturalism.

I am a Black Finn (Finnish mother, Jamaican father) and I am deeply offended by the Fazer liquorice 'Sambo' caricature of a big-lipped, wide-eyed, wooly-haired and ear-ringed Black man and the 'nigger kiss' Brunberg biscuits. Like the 'gollywog' image on the Robertson jam jars in Britain that upset so many people, they should be removed if Finland is truly committed to multiculturalism.

About imprisonments:
In Nordic countries, the only thing a honest man has to be afraid of, is the police.

I am a Black Finn (Finnish mother, Jamaican father) Fazer liquorice 'Sambo' caricature of a big-lipped, wide-eyed, wooly-haired and ear-ringed Black man and the 'nigger kiss' Brunberg biscuits
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Real issues do not matter then ?

http://www.immi.gov.au/
Australian governmental pages.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/
Canadian governmental pages.
________
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/

New Zealand.

I am a Black Finn (Finnish mother, Jamaican father) Fazer liquorice 'Sambo' caricature of a big-lipped, wide-eyed, wooly-haired and ear-ringed Black man and the 'nigger kiss' Brunberg biscuits
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
Real issues do not matter then ?
*********************
*********************
And they compared how is a finn compared to a black american...
there it is ! The winner !
A black Finn !

(sorry, could not resist)(probably the same in all of europe, women like the men but otherwise, would be better to live in america; hard to find jobs etc. in norway, where i used to live, the local law used to be just a couple of years ago, ok to tell in landlords' etc. adverts: no blacks (that was not the exact word) (the local highest court decided so after someone dared to complain, but they eventually changed the law, yet, in all of europe, there is those who decide to like the underdogs, many are the opposite)

All the moving to places stuff:
The americans do not mind all the lots of europeans who work in the country with no permit.
They mind those who are different-looking. Probably not many Finns working there with no permit, as the state is strong in Finland and they do not even realize that would be possible, but it is.

police is corrupt from top to bottom
**
Big brother or stasi was not always there, only in the last 20 years it been there, bribe or lie to one about someone, s(he)'ll always be in the records, for all the world police, for anyone other interested, to see, to make sure the life is over, thank computers and databases.

Europe is slowly going to it's grave.
**
It's there already.

Posted by: | August 2, 2005 07:27 AM
=====================================
Took four tries before a lie went through about me. None was credible but probably the police decided, so many complaints, must be something wrong and let us take care of that. Many years ago that was. Have not had to work ever since.

The school-ending celebration was a curious example of that. I had imagined something quite foreign, quite peculiarly Finnish, from the descriptions of it I had read and heard. As it turned out, we saw a close cousin of the American high school graduation.
=================================
You maybe do not realize how much your culture affects the rest of world.

well our school-ending celebration has been like that well over a 100 years. I don't know how much American culture has affected it. Otherwise I agree, American culture spreads easily.

"police is corrupt from top to bottom
**
Big brother or stasi was not always there,"

----

People interested in only narrow fields (of study):
(someone else's text here)
"They are called "fackidiot" / fakki-idiootti (in Finnish). The Swedish world fack (facket fack, facken) means a box and a compartment. The word comes from the same Latin origin as the English word faculty."

The same applies to the police, if someone is called to be guilty, she is. Because she is called that. Maybe sometimes to the press too, if a journalist only spends time with other journalists, is schooled a journalist to begin with etc. (So in any area that has to do with people, would make better ones if they started after having had at least one different career before)

http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/tuoreet/artikkeli/1101980643652
Today's news: Someone goes to court for saying bad things about god. Apparently the prosecutor has not yet realized there is no such thing.
Iltasanomat.fi :
" Syyttäjä: Gustafsson murhasi koska jäi ilman seksiä

Syyttäjien mukaan Nils Gustafsson tuohtui, kun hän ei päässyt seksuaaliseen kanssakäymiseen Irmeli Björklundin kanssa. Viimeinen pisara oli, kun muut nuoret sulkivat humalaisen Gustafssonin ulos teltasta. "

Prosecutor claims the accused killed three for not getting sex.

(- The hatred against men is strong in Finland.
As in, the drunks do kill, but need no reason.)
The accused was not prosecuted in the 60's when the murder happened (you cannot say so but because the town of espoo was swedish-speaking and so was the accused, the murdered were finns, that was wholly ok back then - in small towns, today, too)

"Spain has advanced in the last 10 years more than most other European countries in the last 30 years."

Spaniards are also considered to still be friendly, whereas friendliness in other countries will get you in serious trouble (no kidding). I do not know why that is, maybe the sun ?

"fack-idiot"
An example: journalists have bought the politicians, who usually have stings attached to them, claims of there being huge need for workers, in finnish "työvoimapula", much more articles about that than of the reality - the huge unemployment. The unemployed cannot shout as loud as those who claim there is need for workers, as they lack the money. The average journalist in a big paper has higher than average income, which gives them a distorted view of the country.

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0507/dis_perkins.html
"Within a week after the first appearance of our diary appeared on washingtonpost.com most of the Finnish newspapers had written about our trip, which stirred enthusiasm as we traveled from city to city."

Some did it before.

"Americans don't necessarily have as good a quality of life as many of us are led to believe. "
The european stereotype, of the stupid americans maybe arises, not only from jealousy, but also from the fact most americans they meet live suburbs in their own houses, see only work-colleageus and maybe never a neighbor ? Because of the continuing influx of immigrants americans stay on the edge, were that to stop, the country would fall behind ?

Europeans live often in cities with apartment houses, see more people, become thus more social ?
If I have understood right, there is only a couple of towns more european style, such as N.Y. in the U.S. ever since cars spread around so in the future, europeans will be stupid, too.

"Reason Russians attacked Finland during the last millennium was the lack of firepower, not lack of men. "

Scholars claim the opposite: Stalin looked at number of men only.

Strangely there is no far-right party in Finland, unlike in the neighboring countries.
http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22620&a=435061
(The Klan leader to have a speech in Sweden next weekend - naturally such jew-haters should be opposed, but, isn't it so the real and harmful nazis in Sweden are the Social Democrats there, with their long-standing institutional hatred against other races, their first in the world faculty of racial biology etc.)

Do Finns fail to understand that in the neighboring countries (read above, halfway or so, about the swedish social democratic party's doings in sweden) they feel themselves to have a race or a struggle against other nations ? Will Finland vanish because of it's own stupidity and sheep-like unwillingness to defend it's values ? It has lived more than many other nations, but the population will start to decline, making it an easy bite for any other countries to take over.

It is not the Social Democrats. It is the people. Other parties never objected to anything the social democrats did, they would have made the very same decisions themselves. The academics would have been the same finding others to be of lesser race were there other parties in power.

Dear World leaders
May I have your attention in order to tell you that Somali Federal Transitional Government led by president Abdilahi Yusuf Axmed wants your diplomatic and financial assistance currently. Please have mercy on somalia to stand its feed back as soon as possible before it becomes terrorist training hideouts. I hope the international community responds urgently by assisting the current government which was founded in kenya last year. The somali federal Transitional Government is ready to co-operate and share diplomacy with the international communtiy.

I am looking forward to hear from you soon.

Yours Faithfully,
Amb. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa
The Current Ambassadorial Candidate to the Republic of Kenya, the Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch
Email: somaliauthor@hotmail.com

I doubt many world leaders read this.

...Happily there was not anything about Mannerheim (though some people wrote in the blog there should be) as that is quite a passe thing for years. (Time or newsweek had something in its article about finland a year or two ago: that war was a _long_ ago though)
--
In suomi24.fi keskustelu maailmanmenoa:
***
Mannerheimkin vieraili bordelleissa !
Kirjoittanut: Mukaan vaan! 28.8.2005 klo 17.02

Eli laillisiksi bordellit jottei homostelu kasva ja määräys nuorille
miehille niissä vierailla - kuten olivat jo Pietarissa aikoinaan
huomanneet keisarillisessa armeijassa tapahtuneen (kertoi tv1:n
dokumentti Mannerheim-aiheesta), laillisiksi bordellit jottei nyt ihan
ruotsalaisiksi muututtaisi !

Seksin ja sukupuolivietin näkeminen tanttafeministiseen tapaan
ainoastaan kielteisenä aiheuttaa lisäksi lapsimäärän laskemista
kun eivät enää nuorukaiset edes sen vertaa välitä harrastaa
seksiä (mukaanluettuna tyttoystäväni, onneksi ei oma nimi ole
käytossä) jotta lapsia syntyisi. Pian on mennyt koko maa kun ei ole
ketään sitä ottamassa haltuun.

(Someone's comment on Mannerheim, freely but correctly translated: Mannerheim went to bordellos, too.
Legalize bordellos so gayness does not spread and order young men visit them as Mannerheim was ordered among the other officers in St.Petersburg.
-at the time there was no problem of women not wanting babies as the sexual matters were not seen as negative as fat baby-hating ugly feminists who decide what is said, nowadays do.)
***
I'll add my proposal for the statue and surrounndings right about now... add a girl to kiss him on the statue and change the surrounding museum to be a ..you can guess it.

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=500000000000002&conference=664&posting=22000000010262828

Link to the talk about mannerheim (no point in reading in two days' time anymore, will be gone, then, as it goes down the list and nobody ever clicks next page)

Oh, in case anyone wonders about the name, Mannerheim, the war time hero marshall was selected the most honored Finn of all time (of a very lacking list) on national TV.

"Dear World leaders
May I have your attention in order to tell you that Somali Federal Transitional Government led by president Abdilahi Yusuf Axmed wants your diplomatic and financial assistance currently. Please have mercy on somalia to stand its feed back as soon as possible before it becomes terrorist training hideouts."

Thing is, they do not much care about africa (or south america) - see today's news, there is lots about the hurricane katrine in the us, not much about africa or south america - not even when there is huge misfortunate happenings or wars in them.

Also the people in us and europe are treated accordingly to their social class:
- the rich got evacuated, the poor apparently had no transport (though to move 100000 people - they would fit on 2000 buses or trucks, which surely would have been available)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/katrina.doomsday/index.html

""So, we're looking at a bowl full of highly contaminated"
"So, imagine you're the poor person.." "on to a light pole, and while you're hanging on, the fire ants" " "And, eventually, the fire ants will win.""

http://www.nola.com/bourbocam/
..but no karaoke on the karaoke cam ?
http://www.catsmeow-neworleans.com/
..they do sing much happier songs there than the finns do (in finland) - "itsari"songs they are called here (suicidal ballads or something similar would be the english term?)

Wonder if the poor will figure out now it is time to loot the rich in case they survive ?

It seems they have not figured priorities right when some police officer is pointing a gun to a looter and at the same time there is people who need to be evacuated.
What does one looter get ? 2000 dollars ? Compare that to the price of one dead man, no taxes coming anymore.

Not all like that:

"Unfathomably, some New Orleans police officers and fire fighters, as well as harbor police joined a crazed mob in looting the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street. As some police officers were carting off flat screen TVs, their co-workers stood by and watched the crowd plunder the store."
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/t-p/katrina.ssf?/hurricane/katrina/stories/html/newseditorial.html

love the poor x said

go see the american commie party homepage..
join!

I have to say that after reading the first 30 posts I scrolled to the end of the page to post, so I have no idea where the discussion stands right now. However, I would like to say that I have lived in the UK, Germany and Finland (where I currently reside) and although the ¨'standard of living' might be higher in Germany, the welfare system of Finland is much more efficient and supportive.
When I first moved to Finland I recieved social support untill I managed to find work here, despite never having paid 'a dime' into this countries pockets.
I would also like to mention that any intolerance towards foreigners I have experienced here in Finland has come mainly from ppl that belonged to a certain generation (over 50s). I usually ignore them as my own Grandmother still has some very intolerant views...it goes with the territory.
The things that matter (a warm place to live, food, healthcare etc) are all provided, no matter who you are or where you come from. And these are provided by the finnish state which is doing a really good job in being open, tolerant and supportive.
Oh and to the person who believes foreigners in Finland are better of than Fins: Your view is neither original nor correct. Get some life experience. The life of the immigrant is NEVER easy. It takes years to really integrate oneself into a different system. In Finland, immigrants and fins have the same rights and opportunities. Maybe you are just dissapointed that some immigrants have managed to create more with the opportunities on offer than you have.
Thank you for the great articles on Finland! The Finns can be proud of their country!
And thank you to Finland and it's inhabitants for a great start in a new country! :)

PS: Thanx to whoever invented thermal underwear! :P

(- The hatred against men is strong in Finland.
As in, the drunks do kill, but need no reason.)
-
Has not yet reached the Swedish levels.
Most rape cases the woman is found to have lied. Yet the name of the woman is not told, the name of the man _is_. So same woman can make a thousand claims, no problem. Wonder how many men that kills ? Another thing there is - the rapes are committed usually by swedes but it is not ok to tell that so they arrest and blame non-swedes. (Usually of different skin, Finns are blamed falsely too, but for different things, it being accepted that Finns come from north and thus are not quite non-sexual creatures and that there is no historical evidence either, as there is in the case of the vikings, that they would go around raping women)

PS: Thanx to whoever invented thermal underwear! :P
--
If you ever become a Finn, you will go around in the same as during the summer :)

I doubt many world leaders read this.
-
Why not ? One ambassador there already !

"Has not yet reached the Swedish levels."

There exists a different relationship between men and women, more a contest than a family-thing, raising children etc; Kindergartens do that.

Traditionally the Viking woman prepared her man for the raids. Raping was not negative as long as the woman was not from the same village or at least did not happen too openly; Evening ok, towncenter daytime not; still is not, ok to rape any foreigner, but that cannot be said aloud as the world thinks differently.

"Usually of different skin, Finns are blamed falsely too, but for different things,"

Finns are considered criminals, arabs/muslims rapists; black have no similar negative stereotype, that does not mean they could find good jobs but they are seen as in need of help, not as criminals or rapists; Norwegians consider Finns about the same as the white southerners used to of the black in America; have no idea of the reason of that nor of the reason of why Swedes consider Finns criminals; but such are worldwide, imported stereotypes given to people that are not liked, they change over time; in some places have disappeared, in Scandinavia have continued to exist, changing to what is -usually- most negative at the time.

"The number of Finnish people I know is quite big and none of them have any racist or xenophobic thoughts. Maybe it is the not-so-well-educated part of the people that is more xenophobic."

In many towns they are the ones living in the same areas as refugees. The well-off live in areas with no foreigners at all.

"Also the people in us and europe are treated accordingly to their social class:
- the rich got evacuated, the poor apparently had no transport (though to move 100000 people - they would fit on 2000 buses or trucks, which surely would have been available)"

Is that a reflection of all towns or only the southern towns that there was nobody who desired to be in charge ?
Are there any big companies in southern towns ? How are they able to find any kind of bosses ?
Or did they intentionally leave the poor behind ?

I can guess what would happen in Finland in a similar situation: if someone TRIED to be in charge, those higher up would drop the poor bastard thinking people should be evacuated before the storm.

.. so did someone try and who dropped that person if someone tried to tell, people should be evacuated before the storm ?

hmmm...So i found the reason of the lack of idiotism and hypocritism lately.It seems it's all packed here.Rather interesting I'd say.

Why do always some people have to start this stupid arguing about whether Finland is a good place to live or not?It seems everybody here is an uptught moron who just needs a good blowjob(masturbation works fine for you lonely people) and stop whining about every damn thing.

TO: The President of the Somali Transitional Federal Government H.E. Abdulahi Yusuf Ahmed
TO: The Prime Minister of the Somali Transitional Federal Government
H.E. Ali Mahamed Geddi
TO: The Speaker of the Somali Transitional Federal Parliament
H.E. Sharif Hassan Sheikh Adan
CC: UNPOS
CC: African Union
CC: Arab League States
CC: The International Communities
CC: All Human Rights Organizations
CC: All Somalis
Your Excellencies,
Ref: 27/0som-amb/uixt/05 Date: 20/09/05
Communique Time: 12:00
Subject: Please Resettle Your Political Differences Urgently Before You
All collapse The Somali Tanade Rights Watch is hereby kindly and
diplomatically urging to the politicl opponents to solve thier
ununderstandable differences into an alternative and profitable
solutions, which can return security and stability into Somalia. The
whole world believes that your government is profoundly divided into two
various political opponents, one led by the president of the Somali Transitional Federal Government H.E. Abdulahi Yusuf Ahmed and the other one led by the speaker of the Somali Parliament H.E. Sharif Hassan Sheikh Adan. Verily, the poeple of Somalia had not elected both of you on countrywide democratic voting system. It is shame on you not save the
common interests of the Somali poeple, which you can bring back law and order into Somalia where there has not been central government since 1991 up to this present date. The Somali Tanade Rights Watch is deeply sorry what is going on among of you currently? Is Somalia part of the African Union? Why the African Union is hesitating to support the Somali Governments from 2000 up to now? Well, I am ascertain that the African Union is definitely dependent to Western decisions on Somalia. Is Somalia one of Arab League states? surely but the Arab League has no intention to intermingle with the Somali inter-political conflicts for the country's leadership. Are Somalis not Muslims? what is wrong with the Islamic nations? Is Somalia not a member of the United Nations? Why the UN refused to assist all the Somali governments from 1991-2005? as matter of fact, the UN tried to intervene Somalia's tribal conflicts in 1993 when they deployed more than 30,000 UN peace-keeping forces, which they failed to restore peace and stability into anarchic nation why the UN neglected to give full diplomatic recognition to all Somali Governments? what does the UN stand for? Of course the international communities and the UN knows that there are political obstacles among the Somali warring clans, politicians, warlords, traders and as well as the so-called Islamic scholars but humanity stands for equality. Please renounce your personal interests for the sake of the needy Somalis in Somalia and around the globe at large. If not then you must know that you will be punishable for the crimes, we are sure that you will not have immunity no matter whether you are the president, the prime minister, the parliament speaker, the politicians, the warlords, the
traders or drug dealers. There are not terrorist groups or training camps in Somalia but there are Islamic fundamentists as they exist everywhere in this planet so please stop the lies to gain international funds to use the other way of your political preferences in order to overcome your foes in the Somali internal politics. The International community knows that there is no place in Somalia where terrorist groups can be harboured without the knowledge of the Somali tribal warlords. If there are terrorist groups in somalia then the warlords are the constant terrorist groups in Somalia who terrorize the Somali poeple everyday. The Somali Tanade Rights Watch is very sad for the Somali traditional leaders, human rights organizations and the so-called Islamic courts, which are more worse than the Somali warlords in the Somali Transitional
Government. Somalia is at civil war with its own poeple. Somalia needs a pure peace and stability, which can be brokered by the world powers as well as their two former colonial masters the Italy and the British. The orld will be with you if you become onglad political party commonly known as the Somali Transitional Government otherwise you will all be down!!! Kind Regards,

Amb. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa (Janno-gale) BA, NHD and MA (Politics)
The Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch (STRW)
Tel: 254-6761266 Mobile: 254-723937501 8th Street Section II Box 68772,
Nairobi Email: Somaliauthor@hotmail.Com Somaliauthor@yahoo.com (forQuestions and Comments

A short visit to Moscow

In Finland trains to Russia, Moscow start from Helsinki.
So one Sunday evening I just went to Lahti station and bought
a return ticket to Moscow without any hotel in Moscow.
I planed to stay only one day in Moscow, walking there around.
My ticket showed a bed place in a cabin for 4 people.
This wagon madam said to me, in that cabin there are 3 women,
so she will give me another cabin, I said I can be where are
those women already, because it is an usual way in Russian trains.
But then she added they are ill and there is another cabin where
is already a Finnish "boy". He started this trip already in Helsinki.

In that cabin there was nobody in only a small suitcase on a bed.
So I read my papers and listened to a radio, and after a couple
of hours this man came in, he had been in a restaurant wagon.
We talked this and that, then he suggested me perhaps I could go to
that restaurant with him to have a dinner, I said I am not hungry.
Then he took a bottle of brandy and ordered tea, for me too.
After some time he again suggested we could go to drink champagne
in that restaurant wagon, now I promised to go with him as a company.
We drank there 2 bottles champagne, he paid and we went back to our cabin.

Because I should wake up early in the next morning I went to sleep.
After awhile I felt that this Finnish "boy" came to the same bed
where I was sleeping. I already earlier thought he was some "different"
but never thought he might be like a gay!

I was lucky because I had drunk some glasses alcohol so I felt sick
and need to throw up. I did not need to kick him down to a floor,
only suddenly got up and went to toilet to throw up.
I think he thought I did this because I did not like him to be that way,
of course I did not like it. He then later on himself said he is a gay.
Perhaps too much drinking made him to do that way!

Although I have been travelling all my age, never before has
happend this kind. Even when I was a young boy.
When I was 16 years, I went by boat alone to Sweden
to Stockholm, and at a night time when walking in the center
there was a man who started to talk with me and took me for a night
to his home and in the morning gave me even money to travel by
bus back to center again where I could then travel to Finland.

Nothing happened that time and I did not even understand then
these gays can even exist. Later on I have only thought perhaps
this man could try something like "that" when we know beatter,
but I never met him again only we sent cards and letters some time.

I have always thought that these gays have some signs that they
know each other! Once in London I visited a gay pub just
to see what kind those bars are.

Maybe you should come out from the closet then?

I always come out water closet, never slept

http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Global+Competitiveness+Programme%5CGlobal+Competitiveness+Report

Global Competitiveness Report 2005-2006

Released on 28 September
Order the report I Read and watch interviews I Download photos

This annual study is a valuable tool for shaping economic policy and guiding investment decisions. It is one of the leading monitors of the competitive condition of economies worldwide. Produced in collaboration with leading academics and a global network of 122 Partner Institutes, The Global Competitiveness Report has expanded its geographic coverage over the years and now assesses 117 economies. The report is unique in that the methodology combines publicly available data with survey data that captures the perceptions and observations of business leaders in a given country.

EXTRACT FROM THE PREFACE
by Professor Klaus Schwab

The publication of this year's Global Competitiveness Report provides an opportunity to examine some of the key economic issues confronting the international community.

The global economy is expected to grow by some 4.25 percent in 2005, nearly one percentage point less than in 2004, when the rapid expansion of global trade delivered the best growth performance for world output of the past decade. Notwithstanding a slowdown in industrial production and global trade, and the adverse impact of higher oil prices, the short-term outlook suggests solid growth, at least through the end of 2006.

The Global Competitiveness Report is a contribution to enhancing our understanding of the key ingredients of economic growth and prosperity. By highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of an economy, policymakers and business leaders are offered an important tool to assist them in the formulation of improved economic policies and institutional reforms. Country Rankings 2005-2006

1. Finland
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Denmark
5. Taiwan
6. Singapore
7. Iceland
8. Switzerland
aso
---------------------------------

Still everything is not so well in Finland!

http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Global+Competitiveness+Programme%5CGlobal+Competitiveness+Report

Global Competitiveness Report 2005-2006

Released on 28 September
Order the report I Read and watch interviews I Download photos

This annual study is a valuable tool for shaping economic policy and guiding investment decisions. It is one of the leading monitors of the competitive condition of economies worldwide. Produced in collaboration with leading academics and a global network of 122 Partner Institutes, The Global Competitiveness Report has expanded its geographic coverage over the years and now assesses 117 economies. The report is unique in that the methodology combines publicly available data with survey data that captures the perceptions and observations of business leaders in a given country.

EXTRACT FROM THE PREFACE
by Professor Klaus Schwab

The publication of this year's Global Competitiveness Report provides an opportunity to examine some of the key economic issues confronting the international community.

The global economy is expected to grow by some 4.25 percent in 2005, nearly one percentage point less than in 2004, when the rapid expansion of global trade delivered the best growth performance for world output of the past decade. Notwithstanding a slowdown in industrial production and global trade, and the adverse impact of higher oil prices, the short-term outlook suggests solid growth, at least through the end of 2006.

The Global Competitiveness Report is a contribution to enhancing our understanding of the key ingredients of economic growth and prosperity. By highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of an economy, policymakers and business leaders are offered an important tool to assist them in the formulation of improved economic policies and institutional reforms. Country Rankings 2005-2006

1. Finland
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Denmark
5. Taiwan
6. Singapore
7. Iceland
8. Switzerland
aso
---------------------------------

Still everything is not so well in Finland!

start this stupid arguing about whether Finland is a good place to live or not?
-
most finns agree that it is not.

Amazing that so many people have written in response to your articles... I haven't gotten a chance to read all the comments, not to mention the articles, though I plan to- they're sure to be interesting judging from some of the comments I've read...

This is my story:
I'm a young American living here in Finland, though most assume that I'm Finn because of my blonde hair- and Finnish last name. I've used this to my advantage many times- when I've applied for a work visa for example, and a KELA card (for insurance). I've found it interesting how much friendlier people in authority (referring to people who work in some area of the government) are when they find out that you're a foreigner of Finnish descent, and speak some Finnish. I guess that's when I got on the ball about learning the langauge... I got more help!

Before you read on, I should say that since everybody else seemed to have something to complain about, I would to.. keep that in mind as you cont....

One huge mistake on the part of the government I'd wish somebody would correct (or maybe it's been tried, but at least not in my experiences)- Somebody needs to make one book, pamphlet, whatever... on the laws and regulations concerning foreigners getting a life started in Finland- and I'm talking about one that'll be the same wherever we go- polisilaitos, KELA, maistraatti (?), työvoimatoimisto, verotoimisto, pankki.. and so on... One book that explains and has a list on what a foreigner needs to do when and where and how and explains the laws in ENGLISH! And while they're at it, in any other language deemed necessary...

Not to say that I didn't do my research... sure,the police station's website (for example) has some info on it, and sure CIMO also has info, but it sure didn't say anything about my experiences... and funny that a lot of the info I've found or have been given has been in Finnish...

Anyhow, here's why such a book would be such a good idea: I got my 2nd visa here in the US, and last spring decided to get another one for a 2nd year. It was a process, but I eventually got it, though not without hassle. I'd applied for the work visa and due to the fact that the people at the police station didn't speak much English, I had to learn many of the words in Finn- and this is the in the foreigners' section of the station, where the help is supposedly in English...

Then, with the newly acquired work visa, I went to try about getting a job- a feat much easier accomplished WITH a work visa. You see, I'd tried for many months without success when I didn't have the work visa... could I get one??? Not without a job... so where does that put your immigrants who want to start afresh in Finland? How does one expect them to get help??? (I was lucky that I have Finnish roots) For this reason, I can see why some immigrants are complaining...

Though this I can also say- a job isn't just going to hire you; you have to get yourself hired. As the Finns also have hard times looking for jobs (speaking in general of the younger generation), so do the rest of us...

Back to that book juttu- once I finally found a job, I went about getting a tax card... oh... turns out that for the last year that I've been here as an au-pair, I've supposed to have paid taxes! Out of pocket cash*??? Now I know where the term "pihi" comes from... Besides that, the families I've au-paired for have all been told by all the authorities that an au-pair does NOT need to pay tax money on his/her "gift" money (*verotoimisto's response: "nobody else knows nothing about this except us- pocket cash is still an income, and if the "income" exceeds 2100e in a tax term, the person, whoever they are, has to pay taxes out of it). So, now I've got a normal job, and am paying a lot more than usual in taxes to make up for not having paying them before...

And while I'm rambling on- what about this? I go to get a KELA card- I'm paying taxes, what am I paying them for if I can't get the same benefits as every other citizen??? The first time I go in there and wait an hour, only to be told that I have to go down to Helsinki (from 8hrs away) to KELA there cuz my address still is there on her computer- I'd just come from the maistraatti and changed my address up north to "permanent." Finally, after showing her my passport and therefore proving that yes, I AM me, and I AM therefore the same person on your computer screen, she listens and 15min later, is telling me the decision will take a month. So, I wait the month they tell me it takes, and now... "well, it looks like you may not be planning on staying long term in Finland as you only have a short term work contract..."

This is my response- "well, DUDE- I'd like to stay- I've kinda, you know, MOVED here, but it seems that everywhere I go to make it all work is pointing me the other direction. You're not making it any easier."

And so I continued studied the language some more... by the time I got my Finnish license, and bought a car, I was able to handle arranging all the official work myself... in Finn. So much for the help from these so-called English-speaking Finns.

So you see, one source of info (whether CIMO rewrites something) or maybe some government paid official, I hope something gets done...

Life here would be all the more easier for us foreigners...

now to get back to reading articles and comments...

KU: Maxadweynaha Ee Dowladda Isu-tagaa Ku-Meel-Gaarka Soomaaliyeed

Sareyntiisa Cabdulaahi Yuusuf Axmed

KU: Wasiirka Koowaad Ee Dowladda Isu-tagaa Ku-Meel-Gaarka Soomaaliyeed

Sareyntiisa Cali Maxmed Geedi

KU: Guddoomiyaha Golaha Shacabka Ee Dowladda Isu-tagaa Ku-Meel-Gaarka
Soomaaliyeed

KU: Ummadda Soomaliyeed Gudaha Dalk Iyo Dibaddaba

Tix: 29/som-amb./uixt/05 Tariikh: 4/10/05

Ujeeddo:Dowladda Karaamaysan Hala Taageero Si Aanu U Helno Sharci Iyo
Kala Dambeyn

Ururka Ilaalinta Xuquuqda Tanade waxuu ummadda Soomaaliyeed ugu
baaqayaa iney taageeraan dowladdood ay soo dhiseen dgaal-oogayaashii ka
tallinaayey dalka soomaaliya tan iyo 1991dii ilaa iyo malintii ay doorteen
madaxda hadda hoggaamineysa dowladda isu-tagga ku-meel-gaarka
Soomaaliyeed.

Markii ay dagaal-oogayaasha Soomaaliyeed soo xulayeen xildhibaanadda
beelaha ku matalaaya golaha shacabka Soomaaliyeed waxay sharuud ka
dhigteen iney soo xulaan dadkii u ahaan jiray maleeshiyo ayagoo irdha ka
xiray dadkii Soomaaliyeed ee aqoonyahnka ahaa kuwassoo rabay iney wax ka
dhisaan dowladdooda!!! Haddab haddii dagal-oogayaashu ay u diideen
aqoonyahaynka Soomaaliyeed ee rabay iney kamid noqdaa xildhibaanada golaha
shacabka iyo golaha wasiirada. Maxay maanta uga soo horjeedaan dowladdii
ay shacabka si cad uga afduubeen?

Soomaaliya hal nin ayaa madaxweyne ka noqon lahaa ninkii na waxaa soo
doortay qabqablayaasha dagaalka marka waxaa ummadda Soomaaliyeed waajib
ku ah iney lashaqeeyaan dowladdooda cusub ee uu madaxweynaha ka yahay
mudane Cabdilaahi Yuusuf Axmed.

Dagaal-ooge wey dhammaatay xiligii aad hortaagneydeen shacabka
Soomaaliyeed ee ku nool gudaha dalka ee imaanka Ilaahay ka idiin soo celiyo
Amiin!!!

Soomaaliyeey hala joojiyo dadka ku dhuumanaya magac culimaa'udiinka
Soomaaliyeed waayo waa ibliis iyo dhalbaas kuwasoo soo raba iney khasaaro
u soo jiidaan ummadda Soomaaliyeed ee ku nool gudaha dalka iyo
dibaddaba!!! Haddii ay culimo jirto waxay wax ka qaban lahaayeen wixii dalka ka
dhacayey 15kii sanno ee aanu soo dhaafnay marka Ilaahay ha ka baqaan oo
ha joojiyaan magaca culimaa'udiinka ee ay sida qaldan u isticmaalaayaan
had iyo jeer ayagoo macnahoodu yahay siyaasad qabiil oo lagu dabaqay
mgaca diinta balse aan waafaqsaneyn diinta Islaamka iyo mabaadiida
culimaa'udiinka Ehelu Sunna Wa Jameeca!!!

Soomaaliya Soomaali baa iska leh marka waxaanu madaxweynaha dowaladda
isu-tagga ku-meel-gaarka Mudane Cabdulaahi Yuusuf Axmed ka codsaneynaa
inuu isk daayo waxyaabaha xun ee dadka sida qaldan u turjuumaan adigoo
micnooyin kale ula jeeda!!!

Mudanayaal iyo marwooyin, qofna kama sareeyo axdigga ku-meel-gaarka iyo
xeer dhaqameedka Soomaaliyeed ee ka dhexeeya ummadda soomaaliyeed!!!

Itoobiya waa dal deriskeena ah balse Soomaaliya waa dalkeena marka
Itoobiya waa inaan u tixgelino dal deris nala ah oo waa khilaafaad
siyaasaddeed na dhexmaray! Adduunkana wey ka dhacday waddamo isku isdagaalay
qarniyo kadibna ka heshiiyey markii ay arkeen inuu dagaal xal waara
aheyn!

Itoobiya ma keeni karto ciidamo haddii aynan ruqso ka haysan ummadda
Soomaaliyeed gudaha dalka iyo dibaddaba!!!

Soomaaliya Aqoonyahnka yaa ku dheelay waayo xukunkii ayeey gacanta u
galiyeen birimagaydadii iyo jaahiliintii kuwaasoo wali haysta xukunkii ay
ka hanteen dowladdii mudane Maxamed Siyaad Barre Alle Ha U
Naxariistee!!!

Soomaaliya waa dalkeenii hooyo ee aan nabaddii, sharci iyo kala dambeyn
ku soo celino nagoo isxilqaameyna Ilaahay hortiis!!!

Dowladda waa dowlad karaameysan taasoo rabta iney wax ka qabata
dhibaatooyinkii dalka ka dhacayey Soomaaliya tan iyo intii ay burburtay
dowladdii Soomaaliyeed ee uu madaxweynaha ka ahaa Sareyntiisa Maxamed Siyaad
Barre 199dii ilaa iyo maalintii la doortay madaxweyne Cabdilaahi Yuusuf
Axmed oo haatan ah madaxweynaha jamhuuriyadda Soomaaliya.

Dowladda karaameysan cidii ka soo horjeedsata waxaa la marsiin doonaa
wixii ay mutaan ayadoo la raaci doono sharci beeneedka aan waaqsaneyn
diinta Islaamka!!!

Soomaaliya iyo Itoobiya waa laba dal oo xurguf ay mar dhexmartay balse
maanta Itoobiya waa dalka kaliya ee Soomaalida u fasaxay iney joogaan
gudaha dalkeed sharci la'aan iyo qalalaaso la'aan ayadoo waliba siisay
dadka Soomaaliyeed dukumiintiga waddaninimo ee dalkeeda!!! Marka
Itoobiya wey noo soo gurmatay 1991dii ayadoo albaabada u furtay dadkii
soomaaliyeed ee ka soo cararay dagaalkii sokeeye ee lagu riday dowladdii
militariga aheyd meeshaasoo sharcigii iyo kala dambeyntii la waayey!!!

Itoobiya haddii ay rabto iney Soomaaliya qabsato mar hore ayeey qabsan
laheyd balse waxaa Soomaaliya isku haysta quwadaha adduunka gaar ahaan
USA iyo reer Yurud!!! Marka dadka yaan la khaldin oo laga dhaadhicinin
waxaan jirin iyo waxaynan Itoobiya ka fushan karin gudaha Soomaaliya!

Dagaal-ooge ama qabqable dagaal oo aan Itoobiya hub ka soo qaadan ma
jiro marka maanta ma waxay na barayaan ineynan waligood tagin Itoobiya
run ahaantii waxaan ku tilmaami karnaa dadka noocaas u dhaqma
laba-wajiilayaal dantooda shaqsiyadeed fiirsada mar walba!!! War idin baranay!!!

Itoobiya ninkii raba inuu la dagaalamo ha aado asagoo iscaddeynaya
waxuu ku weerarayo Itoobiya ninkiise dowlad diidan wakhtigaa bari doona
haddii Alle Idmo!!!

Dowladdu waa in ay si deg deg ah u yeelataa Idaacad, Website Iyo
Isgaarsiin casri ah kuwaasoo ay hawleheeda guud iyo gaar ahaaneed ku gaarsiin
doonto shacabka Soomaaliyeed ee la meel ay ka dhageystaan codka
dowladdood taasoo u fududeyn laheyd shacabka soomaaliyeed iney si dhakhso ah
ula shaqeeyaan dowladdood iyo siyaasiyiintooda haatan hoggaanka
haaya!!!Hadii aynan dowladda sida ugu dhakhsaha badan u sameyn idaacad iyo
meelo ay ummadda ugu sheekto arrimeheeda siyaasadda gudaha iyo tan
dibaddaba!!! waxaa suurtagal noqon doonta ineynan waxba ku dhaami doonin
dowladdihii hore ee ayadaba ka horeeyey!!!

Dowladda ha joojiso waxyaabaha ay shacabku neceb yihiin sida isku dirka
iyo kala taageerida kooxaha ayada ayidsan tan iyo waagii la soo
doortay!!!

Dowladda waa shacabka sidey kalsooni iyo wadashaqeyn uga dalbato ayadoo
adeegsaneysa xirfado siyaasaddeed taasoo dalka ku soo dabaali karta
sharcigii iyo kala dambeyntii burburay

Allaa weyn oo Waaxid ah
Mahadsan Tihiin,
Guddoomiyaha Urrurka Ilaalinta Xuquuqda Tanade
Cabdiqaadir Ismaacill s. Warfaa (Janno-gale)
Tel: 254-6761266
Tel: 254-723937501
somaliauthor@yahoo.com
somaliauthor@hotmail.com
BOX 68772, Nairobi

Could you please send an English translation for that?

There's one thing I can never understand - Why the foreigners live in Finland have never-ending whining about the country and the people. No one's stopping them to move out off the country. Are there any other reasons why they must live in the country and be unhappy about it?

they are not.
its only the ones from the poor countries who thought they went to an affluent one who do that. those from richer countries could see with their own eyes how things are and knowingly moved.

"what am I paying them for if I can't get the same benefits as every other citizen??? "

if you live in a finnish town, you get all.
thing is, you often have to go to court (be sure to get your 'no' in writing, so you can) and wait a couple of years to get what you should have gotten in the first place. finns know that, apparently nobody told you. now, after you went to court and got one yes, they will make sure that you will be punished for complaining.

"Somebody needs to make one book, pamphlet, whatever... on the laws and regulations concerning foreigners getting a life started in Finland-"

They have decided not to.
They make all in swedish though. It would be easier to write all in english as most can write much better english than swedish but that is not the way of this country.

"and stop whining about every damn thing."

Complaining works much better than being quiet. For example, lots of complaining (also here, see the stories about jyväskylä, closing a popular..) got jyväskylä a rock festival, there were ones in every other towns before. http://www.killerirock.fi/

A Detailed Confidential Report on Somalia Crisis
Accept it or Not
Re: 29/10/som-amb/uixt Date: 20/10/2005 Communique
The Somali Tanade Rights Watch is hereby profoundly grateful to IGAD and the international community at large. Speaking on behalf of Somalia, it was a great victory for African to settle its inner continental conflicts without external intruation of other.
Somalia is a country at war commonly known as civil war with its own poeple, it had ignated in early 1991 when Somali armed factions ousted dictator Mahamed Said Barre who was the president of the Somali military regime, who took up the country's leadership bloodless coup d'etat in 1969 after the assissination of the former president Abdirashid Ali Sharmake. The Somalia became anarchic nation, and there has not been effective cientral government to run this state. What was known Somalia globally turned into fiefdoms controlled by local clan warlords who do the pros and the cons daily. In fact last couple of years more than 7 international aid workers and former government official were murdered fiercely in Somalia, and there was no any investigations carried out locally and internationally. The most Somali civilians suffer from more colateral damages regardless of religious believe and they are now ready to restore law and order in thier country with the full assistance of the international community. Unfortunately few self-interest individuals oppose the current Somali transitional federal government, which they are part of it because they confiscated illegal national properties such as potrs, earports, farms, public schools, public universties, ppublic lands, factories,ships, institutes including state house as well as exporting natural resources.
The Somali transitional federal government won't function in Somalia unless it re-gets all the previous Somali national assets with the assurance of united Somalis in conjunction with current holders. It is very complicated to disarm tribal milliteas easily and urgently becaue Somalis have been armed by thier colonial masters during colonial times thereby it is as hard as diamond to convince all Somali clans to disarm themselves rathan you!
Misfortunately, there is new ugly clan power-sharing formula 4.5, which discarded minority rights and is obstacle to the current national reconciliation itself however neither of the four major Somali clans trust one another to demobilize thier fellow armed clans men because of a constant fear of fresh tribal clashes.
The Somali traditional elders and the Somali religious scholars used to mediate the warring clans culturally at under trees but nowadays they became part of the internal conflict stars collaborating with their day to day traditional operations with the Somali blood suckers locally known as renegade warlords, which the international community could not do something until now.
The truth deserves a purified jucticeand it relinguishes the falsified informations nationally, regionally and globally. In the naem of Allah, there are not Al -qaeda operatives or training camps in Somalia except so-called Islamic fundamental organizations such as Al-Itahad Al-Islamia, Takfir and etc. The Somali political leaders wanted to decieve or divert the international community' intellegences on Somalia covert operations therfore hired local spy-agents to send feedbacks as well as sending covert operational NGOS to detect carefully daily security movements or insecurity movements.
It is possible that Somalia may be a hideout for international terrorists, drug-dealers, human organ dealers, arms dealers and maritime piracy masters. Somalia is extremely dangerous and threat to the regional stability as well as internationally, and it must be restored law and ordern willy-nilly.
There are two autonomous administrations, one named self-breakaway administration of Somaliland and the other one called Puntland state, these two autonomous regions fight each other dialy because of some land controlling leadership, which non of them has a good reason to claim it except buddle of free lies. These autonomous administrations are invesible deterioration to the current Somali transitional federal government by implementing political expenses to dismantle it totally but they are completely wrong and need to change this kind of intention into workable and profitable solutions rathan than distroyiong human hope.
Beleive it or not the Somali traders are heavily armed and play vital role of Somalia's internal insecurity and somehow use their ammunitions for self-defence but they are the worse parasitic scanvengers to nest one's feahter by increasing their imported food stuff at any pice without regulatory standards. The Somali traders habituated to sell even the international relief at their own proven prices otherwise you face physical punishments sometimes resulting death because they are sub-contracted for transportation and distribution thereby the Somali traders are as guilt as the Somali warlords and the misleading politicians.
Everyone is an innocent untill proven guilt, no one has impunity to break international laws.
A merciful advise to the Somali transitional federal government; you are are not above the transitional charter by any means, and you are were not elected democratically by Somali civilian except few warlords who soffucated humanity in Somalia, why some of them are currently opposing what they have abducted from the poeple that they misrepresented during the formation of the Somali transitional federal government? shame and hell on them!
There are also three unknown war criminals, the first one are the remaining former military personnelwho take part some of clan clashes, the second one are the Somali diasporas while the third one are the local media companies, which broadcast daily turmoil tactics and misinform freindly listeners.
The international NGOS and the Somali local NGOS are silent killers not only for Somalia but Africa itself by implementing undetectable inter-clan conflicts, which one side can benefit while the other can easily loose.
Somalia is a globally strategic centre naturally, politically, militarily, economically and environmentally but its poeple are roughly useless and do not know how to benefit this wordly God given pradise named Somalia Republic!!!
Thanks In Advance,
Writteny by the Somali Ambasadorial Candidate to the Republic of Kenya, and the Current Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch
H.E. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa (Janno-gale)
Tel: 254-6761266
Mobile: 254-723937501
8th Street Section II
Box 68772, Nairobi
Email: Somaliauthor@hotmail.Com
Somaliauthor@yahoo.com (for Questions and Comments)
www.tanaderights.tripod.com

A Detailed Confidential Report on Somalia Crisis
Accept it or Not
Re: 29/10/som-amb/uixt Date: 20/10/2005 Communique
The Somali Tanade Rights Watch is hereby profoundly grateful to IGAD and the international community at large. Speaking on behalf of Somalia, it was a great victory for African to settle its inner continental conflicts without external intruation of other.
Somalia is a country at war commonly known as civil war with its own poeple, it had ignated in early 1991 when Somali armed factions ousted dictator Mahamed Said Barre who was the president of the Somali military regime, who took up the country's leadership bloodless coup d'etat in 1969 after the assissination of the former president Abdirashid Ali Sharmake. The Somalia became anarchic nation, and there has not been effective cientral government to run this state. What was known Somalia globally turned into fiefdoms controlled by local clan warlords who do the pros and the cons daily. In fact last couple of years more than 7 international aid workers and former government official were murdered fiercely in Somalia, and there was no any investigations carried out locally and internationally. The most Somali civilians suffer from more colateral damages regardless of religious believe and they are now ready to restore law and order in thier country with the full assistance of the international community. Unfortunately few self-interest individuals oppose the current Somali transitional federal government, which they are part of it because they confiscated illegal national properties such as potrs, earports, farms, public schools, public universties, ppublic lands, factories,ships, institutes including state house as well as exporting natural resources.
The Somali transitional federal government won't function in Somalia unless it re-gets all the previous Somali national assets with the assurance of united Somalis in conjunction with current holders. It is very complicated to disarm tribal milliteas easily and urgently becaue Somalis have been armed by thier colonial masters during colonial times thereby it is as hard as diamond to convince all Somali clans to disarm themselves rathan you!
Misfortunately, there is new ugly clan power-sharing formula 4.5, which discarded minority rights and is obstacle to the current national reconciliation itself however neither of the four major Somali clans trust one another to demobilize thier fellow armed clans men because of a constant fear of fresh tribal clashes.
The Somali traditional elders and the Somali religious scholars used to mediate the warring clans culturally at under trees but nowadays they became part of the internal conflict stars collaborating with their day to day traditional operations with the Somali blood suckers locally known as renegade warlords, which the international community could not do something until now.
The truth deserves a purified jucticeand it relinguishes the falsified informations nationally, regionally and globally. In the naem of Allah, there are not Al -qaeda operatives or training camps in Somalia except so-called Islamic fundamental organizations such as Al-Itahad Al-Islamia, Takfir and etc. The Somali political leaders wanted to decieve or divert the international community' intellegences on Somalia covert operations therfore hired local spy-agents to send feedbacks as well as sending covert operational NGOS to detect carefully daily security movements or insecurity movements.
It is possible that Somalia may be a hideout for international terrorists, drug-dealers, human organ dealers, arms dealers and maritime piracy masters. Somalia is extremely dangerous and threat to the regional stability as well as internationally, and it must be restored law and ordern willy-nilly.
There are two autonomous administrations, one named self-breakaway administration of Somaliland and the other one called Puntland state, these two autonomous regions fight each other dialy because of some land controlling leadership, which non of them has a good reason to claim it except buddle of free lies. These autonomous administrations are invesible deterioration to the current Somali transitional federal government by implementing political expenses to dismantle it totally but they are completely wrong and need to change this kind of intention into workable and profitable solutions rathan than distroyiong human hope.
Beleive it or not the Somali traders are heavily armed and play vital role of Somalia's internal insecurity and somehow use their ammunitions for self-defence but they are the worse parasitic scanvengers to nest one's feahter by increasing their imported food stuff at any pice without regulatory standards. The Somali traders habituated to sell even the international relief at their own proven prices otherwise you face physical punishments sometimes resulting death because they are sub-contracted for transportation and distribution thereby the Somali traders are as guilt as the Somali warlords and the misleading politicians.
Everyone is an innocent untill proven guilt, no one has impunity to break international laws.
A merciful advise to the Somali transitional federal government; you are are not above the transitional charter by any means, and you are were not elected democratically by Somali civilian except few warlords who soffucated humanity in Somalia, why some of them are currently opposing what they have abducted from the poeple that they misrepresented during the formation of the Somali transitional federal government? shame and hell on them!
There are also three unknown war criminals, the first one are the remaining former military personnelwho take part some of clan clashes, the second one are the Somali diasporas while the third one are the local media companies, which broadcast daily turmoil tactics and misinform freindly listeners.
The international NGOS and the Somali local NGOS are silent killers not only for Somalia but Africa itself by implementing undetectable inter-clan conflicts, which one side can benefit while the other can easily loose.
Somalia is a globally strategic centre naturally, politically, militarily, economically and environmentally but its poeple are roughly useless and do not know how to benefit this wordly God given pradise named Somalia Republic!!!
Thanks In Advance,
Writteny by the Somali Ambasadorial Candidate to the Republic of Kenya, and the Current Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch
H.E. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa (Janno-gale)
Tel: 254-6761266
Mobile: 254-723937501
8th Street Section II
Box 68772, Nairobi
Email: Somaliauthor@hotmail.Com
Somaliauthor@yahoo.com (for Questions and Comments)
www.tanaderights.tripod.com

The Star Wreck:
"It's Finnish. It's Sci-Fi. It's a FREE movie. It's even funny, in a weird northern European sort of way. Carl F Gauze"

http://www.ink19.com/issues/october2005/screenReviews/starWreck.html

My friends, I'll write it clear
I've stated one of my cases here
And may I say, not in a shy way
Oh no, not me, I did it my way

Regrets, I've had only a few
Then again, to mention too few
But of which I'm certain as a bull
I've lived a life that's full

I'm sure many knew there were times
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it, when there was a doubt
I ate it up and spit it out of my mouth

I travelled countries and every byway
And more, much more than this
I've done what I had to do and
Saw it through without exemption

I always planned each charted course
Each careful step along the by way
And more, much more than this
But it did not always help me

And I find it sometimes amazing
To think all that was done to me
For what is a man, what has he got
If not himself, then he is a nought

I faced it all and I still stand tall
And did it my way as tears subside
I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill, my share of losing

To write the things one truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it all my way

Yes, this is my way and now
I've done those lines of my life
And the end of my "quotation" is here
So I only close this final line.

"kilmarius"

I agree with you the way you view the issue. I remember Jack London once said everything positive has a negative side; It is also interesting to see different viewpoints & learn useful things in the discussion.

TO: African Union

CC: The UN

CC: The Arab league

CC: The international Community At large

CC: The Human Rights Organizations

CC: The Religious Organizations

Communiqué

Re: uixt/somstpc/05 Date:29/11/05

You're Excellencies,

SUBJECT: Application for a Global Recognition of Somaliland Republic

I hereby kindly declare to you that Somaliland Republic deserves a diplomatic and international recognition. The former British protectorate colony gained independence 26 of June 1960s from their colonial masters, and they decided to join fraternally the former Southern part of Italian colony unconditionally.

As you know that there has not been a central government in Somalia since 1991 up to this present date but there is very weak Somali Transitional Federal Government, which may not function in Somalia unless all the warring clans are disarmed completely in order to restore law and order.

Verily, the people of Somaliland have encountered many problems and human rights violations during 1960 up to 1992.

Somaliland state has been enjoying the best security, stability and autonomous administration in Africa ever since the Southern part of Italian colony has been enjoying looting, robbing, rapping, killing, kidnapping, piracy as well as dumping radioactive wastes in the Southern Coastal areas.

There are different clans mainly Dir, Darod and other minority clans who live in Somaliland, If they want the recognition then they must reconcile to have all-inclusive constitution and power-sharing formula, which no clan can deny the rights of others.

The politics of Somalia or Somalis depends on clan basis politics regardless of religion therefore the international community ought to contemplate carefully how the people of Somaliland deserves independence from the Southern part of Somalia.

I am vitally optimistic and concerned to win international recognition for Somaliland to be the Newest Republic in the Africa continent.

I would like to thank the countries, which recognized the Republic of Somaliland secretly, regionally, socially, politically and internationally.

I am also grateful to the current prime minister of the Somali Transitional federal Government H.E. Ali Mahamed Geddi who courageously indicated that is no problem with him if the international community recognizes the Republic of Somaliland as the newest nation in Africa.

Kind Regards,

Amb. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa (Janno-gale) BA, MA & Dip.

The Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch, and the Spokesman of the Somali Tanade Political Committee

The Current Somali Ambassadorial Candidate to the Republic of Kenya

Tel: 254-6761266

Mobile: 254-723937501/724467796
9th Street se Section II
Box 68772, Nairobi-Kenya
Email:somaliauthor@hotmail.com/somaliauthor@yahoo.com

TO: African Union

CC: The UN

CC: The Arab league

CC: The international Community At large

CC: The Human Rights Organizations

CC: The Religious Organizations

Communiqué

Re: uixt/somstpc/05 Date:

You're Excellencies,

SUBJECT: Application for a Global Recognition of Somaliland Republic

I hereby kindly declare to you that Somaliland Republic deserves a diplomatic and international recognition. The former British protectorate colony gained independence 26 of June 1960s from their colonial masters, and they decided to join fraternally the former Southern part of Italian colony unconditionally.

As you know that there has not been a central government in Somalia since 1991 up to this present date but there is very weak Somali Transitional Federal Government, which may not function in Somalia unless all the warring clans are disarmed completely in order to restore law and order.

Verily, the people of Somaliland have encountered many problems and human rights violations during 1960 up to 1992.

Somaliland state has been enjoying the best security, stability and autonomous administration in Africa ever since the Southern part of Italian colony has been enjoying looting, robbing, rapping, killing, kidnapping, piracy as well as dumping radioactive wastes in the Southern Coastal areas.

There are different clans mainly Dir, Darod and other minority clans who live in Somaliland, If they want the recognition then they must reconcile to have all-inclusive constitution and power-sharing formula, which no clan can deny the rights of others.

The politics of Somalia or Somalis depends on clan basis politics regardless of religion therefore the international community ought to contemplate carefully how the people of Somaliland deserves independence from the Southern part of Somalia.

I am vitally optimistic and concerned to win international recognition for Somaliland to be the Newest Republic in the Africa continent.

I would like to thank the countries, which recognized the Republic of Somaliland secretly, regionally, socially, politically and internationally.

I am also grateful to the current prime minister of the Somali Transitional federal Government H.E. Ali Mahamed Geddi who courageously indicated that is no problem with him if the international community recognizes the Republic of Somaliland as the newest nation in Africa.

Kind Regards,

Amb. Abdikadir Ismael S. Warfa (Janno-gale) BA, MA & Dip.

The Chairman of the Somali Tanade Rights Watch, and the Spokesman of the Somali Tanade Political Committee

The Current Somali Ambassadorial Candidate to the Republic of Kenya

Tel: 254-6761266

Mobile: 254-723937501/724467796
9th Street se Section II
Box 68772, Nairobi-Kenya
Email:somaliauthor@hotmail.com/somaliauthor@yahoo.com

Waaaw Mr Janna-Gale I Agreed What You Write On This Bage Thanks Alot And Geed Job Sir

Presenting ULKOPSYKOLOGIT:

www.ulkopsykologit.fi

ULKOPSYKOLOGIT - Psychological counseling for expat Finns, available online

ULKOPSYKOLOGIT - Psykologista konsultointia ulkosuomalaisille, nettipsykologi.

Kindly yours,

Timo Kojonen
psychologist, CEO
ULKOPSYKOLOGIT

There's a mistake in one of the photograph captions... In the slide show about Finnish Sauna it says that 'The Kotiharjun is the only sauna in the country that still uses a wood fire to heat stones' ... It's actually a very common way to heat a sauna. Not rare at all.

Presenting ULKOPSYKOLOGIT:
--
They already got out of here so they're fine and need no such "services" !

Thing with Finland is, at least for the poor, it is a much worse place than western europe or america:

- Western Europe has good social security so the poor get enough food without waiting in lines for it like in Finland they often do as money goes to forced swedish, services for the swedes, agriculture etc.

- America has lots of jobs so some of the poor can get out of their situation - most of Finland has high enough unemployment that if you are thrown off work or never have found one, you also will stay out of work until you kill yourself

Winter war 1939 and 1941-1944 Russian invasions into Finland and occupation after those wars:

Death to russian parasites in Chesnya and our occupied territories: Kalastajasaarento, Petsamo, Salla, Kuusamo, Karjala and Suomenlahden saaret http://www.kavkaz.fi/ru &

http://miehitetytalueettakaisin.blogspot.com/

Yours Sincerely Seppo Lehto Tampere Finnland

Sad to notice how many people hate finns enough to spread false information / lies about them on the internet. Probably those nasty Swedes again, jealous of big and brave finnish heart.. and higher GDP per capita obviously.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.