I've found that if you experience a traffic issue not mentioned on WTOP, you can call #1035 in the mornings and Lisa Baden will often answer the phone herself and will use the info you provide. (Try to give as many details as possible--it helps them, and it also makes you as a caller more credible.) This does NOT work in the afternoon--in my experience, when Bob Marbourg is on the air nobody will answer the #1035 line. I suppose he's concerned about callers providing bad info.

I find the letter Dr. Gridlock posted to be amusing because, as a resident of Virginia, I often think that the local traffic reporters spend too much time talking about the routes through Southeast DC and the Anacostia bridges. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

If you really want a comprehensive report, you can try XM radio. They have a dedicated traffic channel that is not subject to the time constraints that the AM and FM reporters experience. It's also nice to have their reports if you start your commute at a time when it will be nine minutes before WTOP's next report (in 10 minutes, you might commit to the wrong route). On the other hand, I'm more confident in the accuracy of WTOP's reports than I am as to XM's. A lot of the XM reporters haven't learned how to read off a computer screen and it makes them sound like they have no clue what they're talking about. (E.g., "I-95 south jammed from I-495 Capital Beltway to the Triangle." The town is called Triangle. "The Triangle" is a region in North Carolina.)

Do we really need traffic reports? During rush hour, they can cover most of it by saying "traffic sucks pretty much everywhere"

As far as the traffic cameras go, the Maryland DOT cameras are a joke compared to the rest of the area. There are not enough, and although there may be another way to view them, I've found that they make you watch a 'tour' of several cameras, not just the one you want to check. Of course it would be nice if PG county had a camera program as nice as MontCo.

Rich-

I think that the difference that you have noted between Lisa Baden and Bob Marbourg isn't so much just in answering the phone. The fact is, Lisa Baden could make a good run for best traffic reporter in the nation, whereas Bob Marbourg is really only average, at best.

If WTOP wanted to really get serious about evening commute traffic reporting, they'd pay Lisa Baden triple her salary to do both the morning and evening commutes, and let Bob Marbourg buzz around in his little plane at 3am.

I think two areas that are never, if not rarely covered, even on the web sites that Dr. Gridlock mentioned, are the Clara Barton/Cabin John Parkway and GW Parkway.

I've experienced horrible, out of the ordinary traffic there at times and its not mentioned on WTOP or XM.

Even though I don't live in DC anymore, I'm going to second XM Radio (and Lisa Baden, for that matter).

XM covers EVERYTHING on a continuous loop, and it's the primary reason we got XM to begin with. Because we were so tired of WTOP detailing traffic by the inch in downtown DC, and then declaring "Traffic in Virginia is generally slow" (or something equally unhelpful).

Well, Bob Marbourg would say that - Lisa Baden was usually a little more concise, clear and more comprehensive.

I never thought I'd hear someone use the "race card" to complain about TRAFFIC REPORTS! Ms. Lubinsky may or may not have a legitimate point about the lack of traffic information for her area, but to wonder out loud whether it is due to racism detracts from the seriousness of her complaint.

I totally disagree about Bob - I have spoken to him on numerous occasions. However, he can be somewhat chatty and probably only takes one or two phone calls between reports. We have discussed the need for more bridges across the Potomac, how Tysons is always a disaster, that VDOT's cameras malfunction often, etc.

That being said, I believe Bob's philosophy is to only detail traffic that is out of the norm - for example, you should expect the beltway between tysons and 270 to be slow. If there is an incident, he will bring it up but if it is just regular slow, he does not always mention it. I think part of it is time constraints but it is somewhat a different style of reporting than Lisa Baden.

I also have XM and sometimes use their traffic reporting, but you do not know how old the report is when you hear it since they do repeat the reports.

The best thing would be if we had a more reliable GPS tracking method to see average speeds. Google maps displays it nicely (for interstates) and is somewhat reliable, but it has a long way to go - and include secondary roads. Traffic cameras are not frequent enough nor clear enough to be fully reliable. Speed sensors are not frequent enough, and you still have to go to multiple sites (thanks Maryland and Virginia) if you cross state lines to find out.

I believe Lisa Baden wakes up at 3:00 AM. Can't imagine her doing the evening reports regardless of the amount of money.

The point Steven makes about Bob Marbourg using a different style, one that presumes the average listener knows about certain routine backups, is valid. I certainly accept that we all know that there's always a backup on the Inner Loop approaching the Wilson Bridge every morning, and it's just a case of how far it extends.

I do have a problem with one other aspect of Mr. Marbourg's style, though--he seems to presume that the listener has followed the traffic throughout the rush hour and thus knows about incidents. An example would be if he says something like "That accident on the Beltway in Maryland is still backing up traffic." This sort of statement assumes that the listener heard an earlier report and knows where on the Beltway (out of Maryland's 41 miles of Beltway) the accident took place. I don't think that's realistic. I think most listeners turn on the traffic report at the start of the commute, and perhaps during the commute, but I don't know many people who listen online at the office prior to driving home (although I'll concede that it's not a bad idea at all!).

One other thought. An anonymous poster said this: "Do we really need traffic reports? During rush hour, they can cover most of it by saying 'traffic [stinks] pretty much everywhere'"

Well, the issue is what Steven noted and what I said--you know to anticipate some problems, but sometimes things are worse than normal for specific reasons and it's good to be able to plan around them. For example, this morning there was a broken-down Fairfax Connector bus blocking the right lane of Van Dorn Street in front of Select Auto Imports. Van Dorn through there is normally slow, but not "half an hour to go a mile and a half" slow like it was today. Had it been mentioned on the radio, I would have gone a different way (the bus was in about the worst possible place). That's why car crashes are normally called "accidents"--they're unplanned and unexpected. The traffic reports exist to help us deal with the day-to-day vagaries of getting around.

Rich-

You know what? I think if TOP played week-old recordings of Lisa Baden's morning coverage during the evening commute it would be more informative than Bob Marbourg live.

Lisa Baden is truly the Chuck Norris of traffic reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if people drive more defensively when she's on, out of fear for what witty commentary she'd make about them, should they cause an accident and delay traffic.

Dr. Gridlock,
keydet has a valid point. I also know personally that Conn Ave. is another spot that nothing is said unless it is an incident that blocks many lanes (this happens very rarely); fender benders don't seem to register. I also don't hear much about other state avenues or major commuter routes inside NW DC. Historically that has been the case.

Lately, I've only been listing to WTOP in the car for traffic reports; I have problems with the programming on the other stations that carry traffic. In the morning I can consult TV traffic reports before leaving home and Lisa Baden has incidents that TV doesn't. Going home, I need to depend on the radio after I leave the office; I can't listen to streaming audio at my desk.

For years I commuted via the Beltway from SS to Fairfax and found the traffic reports valuable and on occasion called Lisa Baden about something that I saw and did not hear from her. I listed to all the incidents because one not on my route may affect it.

Now I use Conn Ave and/or Rock Creek Pkwy to get to downtown and have no coverage though I still listen to Lisa.

I used to use traffic alerts for my commute home when I was using the Beltway; now I haven't bothered to set any up because it won't matter!

Rich is afraid to say "sucks"

"Rich is afraid to say 'sucks'"

"Afraid"? Not all. I'm too polite to say it.

Report to WTOP at 202-895-5047 and XM at 877-411-9696.

A few comments:

(1) I find Lisa Baden's morning coverage of southeastern parts of the area and Southern Maryland to be very extensive, almost overly so. She regularly reports on Routes 4, 5, 210, Suitland Parkway and the Anacostia crossings. I'd have to respectfully and entirely disagree with Ms. Lubinsky.

I certainly can not validate this but I believe Lisa Baden lives somewhere in Calvert County off MD Route 4. She has made mention of this in some subtle way during her reports over the years, and she seems to have alot of "insiders insight" when problems arise on, for example, Route 4 and all that Route 4 traffic needs a good detour.

(2) I find the biggest loser as far as WTOP reports to be Loudoun County (with all the NPS commuter corridors a close second). (I say this as a commuter from northern Fairfax County to Bethesda who has no interest in Loudoun County traffic.) Loudoun County, as large of a residental and even job center as it is, is mentioned very little particularly in the morning. The Dulles Greenway gets a mention if delays extend out there to get to the Toll Road but principal routes such as Routes 7, 28 and 50 rarely get the attention that Routes 4 and 5 do in Southern MD.

(3) Bob Marburg is an EXCELLENT traffic reporter. (And, I can say I've spoken to him many more times than Lisa over the years. When I call Bob in the afternoon, he either answers or he doesn't. When I call Lisa in the morning, she somtimes answers but its more likely to have someone else (an assistant?) pick-up.)

The level of detail and accuracy Bob uses to describe significant snarls is unparalleled in DC traffic. Take for example, the problems one night late last week on Canal Rd. He mentioned the spill over traffic on many other routes as well as potential work-arounds to avoid the area. I think Bob has a very, very good understanding of the intricacies of DC area roads, most especially locations within DC and other close-in/inside the beltway locations.

I think Lisa and Bob are an outstanding duo of traffic reporters that WTOP relies so heavily on. Now I only wish that the guy (I can't recall his name) that comes on to replace Bob (typically at 7pm weeknights) would be replaced! I get the sense he is reading the traffic report monotone from a piece of paper and its in the same order every report, and I also find it to be outdated by 8pm or so. (There are many nights when WTOP is reporting slow traffic across the outer loop of the ALB into VA only to get to the ALB and there is no delay of any kind. In fact, the delay is often times still being reported 15-20 minutes later when I get home.

(4) I always chuckle at the rookie reporters who give reports like:

"495 slows between 50 and 295." Which interchange with 495 and Route 50 and which itnerchange with 495 and 295 are they referring to?

Or there are the veteran reporters (Julie Wright does this often) who think everyone knows just as much about DC area roads as they do with reports that include things like "I-95 south slows at the FSP". Does everyone know that the FSP is the Franconia Springfield Parkway? And she also makes mention of the FCP on occasion (FCP=Fairfax County Parkway).

And the one thing that I've heard both veteran and new reporters "mess up" is reference to Route 193. When they're speaking of "beltway delays near Route 193" are they referring to the Georgetown Pike in VA or University Blvd in MD? Both Route 193s intersect the beltway, about 15 miles apart and in two separate states.

Route 193 also intersects with the Beltway in Greenbelt.

If there is one group that doesn't get traffic reports it is Deaf people. Why can't there be more meaningful info on those electronic signs around the region? I also wonder why someof them are located where they are? I think that some of those signs are poorly placed.

"Route 193 also intersects with the Beltway in Greenbelt."

Technically, Route 193 proper does not ever intersect with I-495 although it does cross under (via underpass) the beltway. You actually have to exit at MD 201 Kenilworth Ave or the BW Parkway first to connect with Route 193 in the Greenbelt area.

I think the reason why traffic reporting SE of DC may be different than throughout the rest of the region is because commuting occurs mostly on surface roads instead of highways. At any rate, the surface roads SE of DC tend to get a lot more coverage than surface roads elsewhere. It is much more difficult to get accurate data automatically on surface roads. Is that traffic congestion caused by a crash or a traffic light? How long is the line at each light normally? Also the highways tend to have more cameras than surface roads. Route 4 out in Calvert County is essentially a local road for Calvert County. Maryland can't justify spending as much money on that road as it can on, say, I-270, which serves regional and long-distance traffic as well. I have no problem with WTOP traffic reporting though. I too thought it was odd that they refer to an hour old crash as "the crash", but they always tend to follow with the location ("the crash on 270 north past Montrose Road"). They can't have the same hype as the first time the crash is announced ("OMG there's a crash on 270 at Montrose Road" every 10 mins? Nahhh). I think Lisa Baden is exceptionally awesome, but the others are not bad by any means. And coverage is much more extensive than in NYC, where they have limited time to cover a huge area, so traffic jams sometimes don't get mentioned unless they are huge jams.

I wanted to bring up another unrelated point that got mentioned extensively in Dr. G's chat today. I tried submitting to the chat but for some reason my web browser froze everytime I tried to submit. Pedestrian crossing rules at signalized intersections... The original reason for the flashing hand was because there needed to be a way to clear pedestrians from the intersection before the solid hand came on (when all peds are supposed to be out of the intersection). The philosophy was the same as a yellow light...stop people from entering (legally you have to stop on yellow unless it is unsafe to do so...at least in VA), let those already in get out. The timer sort of negated the need for the flashing hand, since pedestrians can determine how much time they needed to get across based on the timer, but nonetheless, FHWA decided to keep the flashing hand, and legally it retained its meaning. But FHWA is proposing to change the meaning of the flashing hand in the next version of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. THe new manual is due out in 2009 and the Notice of Proposed Amendments was placed in the Federal Register on 1/2/08. Basically, the new rules would be that you can enter the crosswalk on flashing hand if and only if both these conditions are met: 1) a timer is present, and 2) the pedestrian is out of the intersection and on the sidewalk before the timer runs out. If the pedestrian enters on walk signal, the pedestrian is allowed to be in the intersection after the timer expires, based on the "if you are legally in the intersection, everyone else must yield to you until you clear it" rule (this was always the case, and is the only way many elderly pedestrians can make it across). But you can only claim the "I was legally in the intersection before the solid don't walk" if you entered on the walk signal...if you enter on flashing don't walk, you have to be able to make it across. The intent of FHWA was *never* for the flashing hand stopping pedestrians from entering the intersection to be there to assist drivers attempting to make a turn, as pedestrians are permitted to be in the crosswalk during both flashing dont walk and walk mode. If highway agencies want to stop pedestrians to assist turning traffic, there is a different provision in the MUTCD for that...that requires ending the pedestrian phase 5 to 10 seconds before the green light turns to yellow...so there is 5 to 10 seconds where no pedestrians should be in the intersection. Some intersections in DC have this timing, along H and I Streets. In proposing this amendment to the meaning of the flashing hand symbol, FHWA is recognizing the fact that it is unfairly punishing those who can walk fast by mandating that they wait for the next walk signal, even in cases when they can clearly make it across beofre the timer expires. In fact some people want to eliminate the flashing hand altogether and leave it up to the pedestrian to determine how much time they need, but that idea did not gain much momentum since some felt it was necessary to provide some guidance. But for any vigilante drivers who think its OK to harass peds because you saw them step in on flashing hand...the peds may have been wrong, but drivers have no right to harass peds or mow them down.

Woodley Park, why would anyone be concerned about law and rights? Are laws actually being enforced against illegal pedestrians ANYWHERE???

Where I am, the biggest problems are (1) pedestrians illegally in the crosswalk or street stopping traffic, (2) cars running red lights and cutting off pedestrians legally in the crosswalk, and (3) cops driving illegally to get to Dunkin Donuts.

I have XM and use it extensively. Their reporters, with the exception of Joe Dooley are all competent. Dooley however, is horrendous. Just tell me the traffic, I don't need to know what your stupid nickname of the day is.

Anyway, XM's reports are pre-recorded onto a loop. Each report is recorded separately and you can sometimes hear the seams where a new report was added in or one was amended to take out "new crash on..." As soon as they check the cameras and see that traffic is moving again, they take that bit completely out.

My biggest pet peeve comes from the DOT of Virginia, Maryland and DC who don't use the variable message signs or even report in a timely fashion. I've been stuck looking at accidents that have closed roads and not heard anything for up to 30 minutes after it happened (including calling it in myself).

First off, I second the comments about Lisa Baden and Bob M. being excellent reporters. I'd also throw in local vets like Beverly Farmer and Jim Russ as reporters who really get it. They know how to deliver useful information, and do it in a timely, organized fashion, which is really all you can ask any reporter to do. It is absolutely valid that Bob Marbourg covers the surprise incidents, rather than spending all of a 60 second report telling listeners what they already know and expect.
As far as sources of information, as an occasional fill-in reporter myself (and most certainly not in the league of the aforementioned folks), let me throw out a few pieces of information that may or may not be helpful.
1) The following roads are very difficult to cover, due to few cameras (or none at all), and difficult access from the air:
The BW & GW Parkways - park service roads don't have cameras or speed sensors on them, and both run in close proximity to large airports, which means it's difficult to get a plane in to see them. They also have fewer exits, so if the traffic reporting companies send a car on them when traffic is bad in both directions, they are stuck.
2) The Dulles Toll Road. It has one camera on its entire length (near Hunter Mill Road), and aircraft can only go a certain distance without interfering with Dulles Airport traffic.
3) DC 295, Suitland Parkway. Much of Suitland Parkway is inside Washington's no-fly zone (which also covers the Beltway between Branch Avenue and Van Dorn Street, though you can usually see the Wilson Bridge from just outside the zone), and since the road is hidden by trees, it's hard to see from farther away. 295 is a little better, since there are at least cameras there.
The easy roads to cover are:
Anything in Montgomery County (incl. 270, 495, and surface streets like 355, 29, Georgia Ave and Randolph Road) - this what the high taxes pay for - we have as many cameras as the other jurisdictions combined, and it makes it a lot easier to find a clear route.
I-66, I-395/95 - because of a federal program to put cameras where HOV lanes run, there are a ton of cameras and speed sensors down to Quantico and Gainesville.
The Virginia Beltway - backups here tend to be unidirectional, and in the same place from day to day, so it's easy to send a plane or a car (in the off-peak direction) to check them, and then it can move on to other places.

This is not meant to be an excuse for why traffic reports are good or bad, I just hope that folks realize that if they hear info about 270 or 66, it's probably more timely than something they hear about the BW Parkway, and plan accordingly.

I think Susan and Bob both live in Southern Maryland. I know one of them is around Deale and when I've called in with reports they both seem very knowledgeable about even the smaller roads in So.Md.

One thing they've told me about Suitland is that they are just at a loss there--there are no cameras from Andrews to the South Capitol Bridge, so they really do have to rely on callers to get more info. PA is a bit better, but they can't tell if the problems on PA are localized or due to overflow of a bigger problem on Suitland.

I'm still in favor of a Stanton Road overpass (somehow). That is such a gridlock that is backs up traffic onto 295 sometimes.

A long time ago I had an idea for a radio station that was nothing but DC traffic with the following schedule (using mm:ss to refer to the time)

00:00 - 01:30 Talk about northern section of metro area
01:30 - 02:00 30-second ad

02:00 - 03:30 Talk about eastern section of metro area
03:30 - 04:00 30-second ad

04:00 - 05:30 Talk about southern section of metro area
05:30 - 06:00 30-second ad

06:00 - 07:30 Talk about western section of metro area
07:30 - 08:00 30-second ad

08:00 - 09:30 Talk about traffic within DC itself
09:30 - 10:00 30-second ad

This would then be repeated every 10 minutes (and provides 2 1/2 minutes of ad time to help support it). This way, everyone would know when to tune to the station for their particular area. The station would also have numbers that people could call to provide eyewitness reports, much like WTOP does. If Washington Post Radio had used this model, might it still be around? I know that a lot of this is done on XM, but how many people have XM anyway?

By the way, there are 2 numbers to call for WTOP. One number (202-895-5047) was already given, but the other number is 866-304-9867. The problem is that I only get through less than 20% of the times I call. I usually only call when I'm on a road that couldn't get covered otherwise, such as Canal Road or the GW Parkway.

Dsmac - if that station were around, everyone would tune in for their 90 seconds, and then tune out. The advertisers would be less than thrilled, and the bottom line of the station would react accordingly. Why do you think WTOP runs so many teasers?
One thing southern MD does have working in its favor, is that the airplanes that cover traffic for DC leave out of Hyde Field, which is between Rt 5 & 210. That means that if something happens at the beginning or the end of rush hour, the planes are already nearby. This is why you often hear reports around 6am of delays on either 5 or 210.

"By the way, there are 2 numbers to call for WTOP. One number (202-895-5047) was already given, but the other number is 866-304-9867. The problem is that I only get through less than 20% of the times I call. I usually only call when I'm on a road that couldn't get covered otherwise, such as Canal Road or the GW Parkway."

Also, if you're using Verizon, #1035 works.

I drive up 7th Street, from SW to NW every morning. The intersection of 7th and Penn is becoming dangerous. After a bus turned left onto Penn from 7th Street and caused the death of two pedestrians, DDOT changed the left turn arrow. It is timed way too short. At the most, 2 or 3 cars can turn left or one bus and 1 car. While I was in the line to turn left this morning two buses turned left from the right lane because they obviously didn't want to wait through the long line of traffic waiting to turn left. They had the intersection blocked completely so the cars going forward were stuck as well. The forward arrow turns green long before the left turn arrow. This definitely needs to be addressed.

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