The War Over the War

Mr. Exum:

Do your former comrades in Iraq view the surge as actually working to some degree? I was in the 101st six years ago today, and also served in Afghanistan a few months later like yourself.

I was skeptical of the surge, but I tend to view GEN Petraeus very favorably, and I do respect his opinion. Do friends of yours in his command share this view?

Like you, I wonder how we got here. 2002 in Afghanistan seems a world away. I felt then that we were really shaping the world into a safer place. Now we are in crisis management mode.

We Followed Blindly ! too upset to think an we trusted our President . Thats how ?
God Bless Americas Fallen ! Blessed be the Name of God !! on High !!!!!!!!!!!

What distresses me the most is that most, if not all, members of Congress seem to have made up their minds and staked out their positions based more upon party affiliation and political maneuvering rather than upon any shared vision of what the threats are to our country.

Do terrorist organizations in Iraq pose a threat? Does Iran pose a threat? Do terrorist organizations on the Afghan-Pakistani border pose a threat? Can we afford to abandon Iraq and/or Afghanistan? Has any legislator even pondered any of those questions? Perhaps.

Have the answers influenced their positions on the war? I doubt it.

But maybe I'm too cynical. After all, many of those legislators have been to Iraq and seen the dog and pony show at BIAP, eaten in the chow hall with MNF-I staff, and even asked questions to a few cynical Soldiers who are bitter about being stuck on a FOB instead of operating from a combat outpost or patrol base.

Boy, isn't it just great!!!! We voted last year to end the war and now Gen P wants us to applaud him and Bush for decreasing our troop levels BACK to where they were WHEN WE VOTED TO GET OUT OF IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What part of "GET OUT!!", do they not understand???Gil in Tex

It's that simple. It's not a head-scratcher, dude. Bush said there were WMD in Iraq and started the war. There were not WMD but nobody stopped the war. We killed Saddam and nobody stopped the war. We got a new Iraq government and nobody stopped the war. BECAUSE THE WAR MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY FOR REPUBLICANS AND THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY. IT WILL NEVER STOP UNTIL THOSE WITHOUT THEIR SNOUTS SIN THE TROUGH STAND UP AND MAKE IT STOP.

Look-

Can we just get out now. I'm really eager to see Iran invade, and have entire generations and races slaughtered. Then, we can let them just run across Syria, since they are already arming them, and take out that pesky Israel. In the meantime, we can size up our women for genital mutilation and burkas. Then all you liberals can have that treasured uniformity of opinion that you wanted. We all know in your cowardice, that you will surrender all your Constitution Rights to freedom of expression and freedom of religion, and willfully follow radical Islam.

That's what you wanted, right?

I watched most of C-Span coverage of the presentations to Congress by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker yesterday and today.

I am 76 years old and served in the Marine Corps from 1950 to 1954. I was a hawk until a few years into the Vietnam War when I read Howard Zinn's book, "Vietnam-The Logic of Withdrawal".

I was impressed by the poise and clarity of General Petraeus's presentation and his answers to most of the questions. However, I came away feeling that he didn't do a very good job in answering questions from Senators Warner, Lugar, Hagel, Kerry, Obama, Weber and a few others. On a day that was the 6th anniversary of the 9/11 tragedy I was pleased to hear General Petraeus admit that he didn't see a connection between 9/11 and Iraq though apparently 33% of Americans still do. The General wasn't able to say (in answer to a question by Senator Warner) that his activity in Iraq was "making America safer".

I was unimpressed by Ambassador Crocker, particularly when he was trying to defend the ineptitude of the Maliki government .

I was in the Navy 20 years ago, and worked in Naval Intelligence. From the launch of the war, it was easy to see that the American people were being mislead, misdirected (saddam+9/11+muslims=we must invade) and lied to. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfie all knew it was easier to get in than out. ..Dem leadership signed off on the plan, including most of the crew: Clinton, Reid, etc..
THe leaders have led us into war, and the people suffer most...

How we got here was through the cynical use of the emotions of 9/11 to resettle old scores by administration cold war has - beens to use "muscular" american dominance. It is time for a new generation to wisely see the world as it is and cradft a new direction for United States power and influence. Will you be part of that new leadership?

Well Itis obvious. Bush,Cheney,and countless other politicians dodged the draft, went awol in Alabama or whatever. They have felt some guilt for years and this is the war of their vindication. Except, they are still awol...
The definiation of Fascism is a super powerful executive and a legislative branch made up of corporate heads who will profit from war. It happened in Italy in the 1930s and now we have stumbled into the same situation. Trillions of dollars are being borrowed by the government for the war and other things and it is being spent in a way to make a few Americans super rich. It is very simple, very simple....

Typically eloquent commentary, AE.

I find it surprising that army officers should be asking that question. I'd have thought the answer would be obvious to them.

Militarism is the underlying mental illness that drove America to commit this act in Iraq.

In the past three decades, militarism has spread through America like a cancer.

What a bunch of revisionist crap. There were plenty of predictions of what would happen from day one, starting with Gen Shinseki who said that 275000-350000 troops would be needed to "win the war and secure the peace"...problem is, none of the a$$ holes in Washington bothered to listen, especially the biggest a-hole who sits in the Oval office.

We put this gun to our own head......

I voltunteered for the Army in the Sixties and Vietnam was my war.

I remember in '68 that Nixon's platform included the slogan, "Peace With Honor". In short, we were going to withdraw from Vietnam.

But it would not be until April 30, 1975 that the last helicopters would be lifting off the last people frantic to be taken before the VietCong would overtake the U.S. Embassy.

In other words, it would take another Seven Years from Nixon's acknoweldgement that the U.S. was holding a Losing Hand, (and it was time to fold 'em) and our final evacuation.

We left behind the Sacrifices of over 58,000 American Combat Soldiers and Marines in Vietnam.

Today, Vietnam is a Trading Partner with us.

My point is that the American People now, as back then, are Way Ahead of their Government regarding our Invasion and Occupation of Iraq.

One day, we shall leave Iraq.

And we shall be leaving behind the Sacrifices of over 3,800 American Combat Soldiers and Marines -- how many more will depend upon when we depart Iraq -- and the Hundreds of Billions of Dollars from our Treasury.

We will also have left the Iraqi People with an utterly devastated Nation, thanks to our misgotten Desire to bring Freedom and Democracy to Iraq, (American Style -- with Gun Ships, Bombs, and Bullets) -- whether they wanted us to or not.

In Chess, this woulld be recognized as the End Game.

I mean, It's Over -- George Bush's "Mission Accomplishe" not withstanding.

Whatever chance we had of "Winning" is long gone -- our Green Zones not withstanding.

The American People KNOW that it's over.

It's THEIR SONS and GRANDSONS, THEIR HUSBANDS AND BROTHERS that are in their Fourth or Fifth Rotation back because we DON'T HAVE ENOUGH Combat Soldiers and Marines to Fight and Die in Iraq.

And for what? At this point, for what?

In Vietnam, we had overwhelming Military Supreriority and we used it. But we never even got to First Base in the Political War.

We sure as hell aren't doing any better on the Political Front in Iraq. As far as I can tell, we are being gamed by our Iraqi "Allies" "governing" from our Green Zone.

I mean, the "Elected Iraqi Government" is a JOKE. They don't dare step out of the Safety of our Green Zone.

So WHAT are our Combat Soldiers and Marines Fighting and Dying For, I ask?

So that our Military-Industrial Complex can continue to make Obscene Profits on the Sacrifices of our Soldiers and Marines?

This is all really Pathetic, Disgusting, and Shameful, in my book.

Thank you, Mr. Exum.

I, as an American, am not the man you are, and have not served in our military. I also get frustrated by the political theatre of both political parties, playing a game while MEN and WOMEN like you fight the good fight.

I am, however, a bit more informed about the facts of the last six years than your average American. And your questions and concerns are not only valid and accurate, they are infuriating.

As members of both parties "jockey" for position to try to win or lose or gain seats in the congressional body, MEN like you are discounted as "anti-(fill in the blank)". This is completely unacceptable. Many candidates with recent military experience have recently run for office, and shockingly, been defeated by a political machine with a strongly effective team designed solely to create words and ads to defeat anyone, anytime, regardless of their experience or political affiliation. SHAMELESS!

What if you were to run? Perhaps you stole a buck from a customer on your first paper-route, or stood up your date at the junior prom. What a commericial that would make!

Our current system in this country is so badly broken that regular folks, like me and my ilk have no idea even where to start. An example of which would be: testimony? What are the odds that you, I or anyone we know would not be sworn in before Congress? Not highly likely.

I am not now, and never will be, a mouth-piece for any organization. I'm just a small-business owner in Baltimore, with a weakness for following politics, that wants to scream every time I watch the news. Short of actually entering a national race (Yeah, right. How can a regular guy, who actually thought his government was of the people, by the people, for the people, wage a campaign of ideas, when any "establishment" opponent will raise $10,000 to my $1? He can't.)

That being said, the best idea I have seen come across the web in recent memory is an organization called Unity08. I am not, nor will I ever be, a "PR" guy for anybody, but if you have gotten this far in this message, you owe it to yourself to check it out.

With humble respect to Mr. Exum and his fellow Rangers, I am..

However we got here (and it was via lies and more lies, as we all know), we need to make sure we don't do the same sort of thing in Iran. And you know that the Faux Radio guys are gearing us up for that, the same way they did for Iraq, yelling and screaming about how we need to invade Iran.
So be sure to let your Senators and Congressmen know that you don't favor striking at Iran -- and do it in large numbers, or they won't listen. They are the only ones who can stop Bush & Co from repeating the Iraq mess in Iran.

How did we get here?

We were driven by an electorate who voted for George W. Bush because they thought he would be the kind of guy you'd like to go out and have a beer with.

Heck, they should have considered Ted Kennedy, he would have had a tough time getting 3,800 people in the front seat of his car.

Too many DA-1156 forms being filled out, but I haven't seen the real answer to the question posed in my dad's WW II generation, "Why do we fight?"

It's the only war I can recall that becomes an imperative AFTER we engage. Go figure, this clueless, gonads to the wall, naive administration is bassackwards.

And in this war they switch the DEROS on you. A real number ten.

Bottom Line:

We got here thanks to the Republican Party.

It's a f***ing disgrace.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The connection between them has to do with falsifications and rotten insinuations cast by the Bush Administration. Bush Administration decision makers and their cronies want to control the natural resources of Iraq. They want a continued military presence there in order to dominate the region economically.

The costs of the invasion and occupation will be worth it to prominent Bush Administration officials (who orchestrated the unnecessary invasion of Iraq) if the Iraqi Parliament passes legislation that is favorable to the interests of Western Oil Corporations and the USA.

The future of US Global Domination rests upon the success or failure of the occupation of Iraq. To the Bush Administration decision makers, it doesn't matter what the Iraqi people want or need. It doesn't matter how the Iraqi people are doing.

What matters to them is to secure the nation of Iraq for matters of geo-political and economic dominance.

And all the while regular Americans and Iraqis are suffering and being sacrificed. Regular human beings are being sacrificed to feed the aspiration for global hegemony amongst the decision making elite.

It's a deplorable situation. What would help this situation would be for military insiders to revolt against the insane and criminal military leadership.

The stakes are high. Great harm is being done. It's time for the real heroes to step up and step down. It is time for everyone in the military to make the decision about whether to fight for truth and justice, or to fight someone else's unjust war - someone else's conquest, someone else's pursuit of power and control.

Dear Andrew,
America is presently run by a bunch of oilmen.
Iraq sits on top of the world's second largest reserves of sweet crude that only costs 2 dollars a barrel to extract. Enough to keep the bush gang, and the US happy for at least 50 years.
The only problem is that the oil belongs to the Iraqis, and they are prepared to fight for it.

I hope all who read and see the wisdom of Mr. Exum's comments will remember that

a) it's the Republicans -- almost ALL of whom are chickenhawks (never served) -- who led this bloodthirsty parade, and who have no idea of what "sacrifice" means -- either financially or personally; and

b) when a real hero -- Max Cleland -- ran for the Senate, those same chickenhawk Republicans ran ads comparing him to Osama bin Laden.

Please, please: if you've got a Republican Senator, write and tell him/her to support Democratic efforts to get out of Iraq; and when 2008 rolls around, remember exactly who these scumbags are, and don't vote for one.

The debate ought not to be about how to resolve this war. Rather it should be about how not to fall into an Iraq-like trap again. And the way to do this, in my humble opinion, is to demonstrate that elected presidents and their cadres of advisors do face consequences for deceiving electors and the consequences include imprisonment and/or exile.

We got here because we have a president who is either too stupid, lazy, naive, (take your pick) or so just not up to the challenge. This is the same guy who sat for almost ten minutes after being told that the country was under attack and then got on Air Force One and disappeared for hours. Bush and his overzealous ideolog cronies then rushed to take advantage of the ourtage and anger we all felt about 9/11 to make a false case for invading a third world country that had a third rate military that had control of only a third of its own air space!

"W" (who ducked Viet Nam by having his daddy get him a commission in the ANG which he also ducked out on) got to play hero by donning a flight suit and helment for a photo op on an air craft carrier declaring "Mission accomplished"! Meanwhile all the contractors - Halliburton, Blackwater, Brown & Root and who knows how many others - are cleaning up in this privitazed war.

To find out how we here just follow the money.

I would like to commment on the only negative reply that claimed that liberals are cowards. I am liberal, and I spent four years on an nuclear submarine chasing soviet subs during the cold war. I was ready to fight to the death, but I was also a social liberal and an environmentalist. More recently a good friend from college was very liberal, creative, and very nice to everybody. He joined the Army under Clinton, and died in Iraq from a roadside bomb last year, along with his driver. He was an Arabic speaking intelligence officer assigned to lead a platoon in the field. I have no doubt of his courage or his attitude for his men and the civilians in Iraq forced to deal with the war WE started.

I'M a vetern c/co3rd of the infantry div. from years ago although i own a Upholstery shop and get to talk to some of the veterns that have come back, most have some problems with PTSD which is going to happen in any war believe me i can relate. But the veterns of IRAQ have told me that if we dont stop them now they will be in our back yard in the mornin. Now i beleive the war was brought on by those after 911 for money and oil and power, BUT we still have troops coming back we can not tell them it was in vain. I going to start a group session with some of the troops coming back for free becouse the wifes and the kids are going to need help so are the troops.

For the last comment just remember the screams from the fox hole BROKEN ARROW BROKEN ARROW

Having served in Iraq with MEF I from March 17,2003 thru May 2003 "Operation Iraqi Freedom" we ousted Saadam Hussien and his troops with only 26 American troops lost. We won The Presidential Unit Citation. BRAVO ZULU Marines!! THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF OUR VISIT TO IRAQ. Instead Bush ties in 9/11 with Iraq for a reason to stay....I thought the Taliban were in Afghanistan. Let's get out of Iraq and let the Iraq military protect there own and move our Iraq forces to Afghanistan to get Bin Laden and his thugs of murderers.