While I am all for more retail (and restaurants) in the Route 50 corridor, I see some disturbing duplication among "category killer" big-box stores.

Do we really need a Borders with a Barnes and Nobles just a few miles away in Brambleton?

Do we really need a Lowes with a Home Depot a mile (or less) away in South Riding?

And so on. While the duplication might be good for price competition, there are enough of these stores within a few miles already to keep prices down. I'd rather see some unique stores in these spaces.

The developers of these properties should be talking to each other so the potential of all of them can be maximized.

The County has approved over 2.8 million square feet of retail for Route 50 including the Arcola Center -The Shops big box rezoning application which was approved by the Board on June 19, 2007. This is almost twice as much retail as the Dulles Town Center. However, only alittle over 300,000 square feet of this retail has been built to date.

Businesses with higher paying jobs would have been much better at the Dulles Landing location so that Dulles South residents could work here in Loudoun instead of having to commute to Fairfax County, Arlington, and DC to work.

I reviewed the emails that came into the Board regarding Dulles Landing. The board received over 60 emails from County residents who are opposed to the Dulles Landing application and only 16 emails from residents in support of this project. Four to 1, residents asked the Board to deny the Dulles Landing application. In addition, a petition from 11 local businesses opposed to this application was presented at the 7/3/07 BOS business meeting. The following Board members ignored what Loudoun residents and businesses want (or don't want) and refused to revisit the application despite the many outstanding issues with it: Snow, Tulloch, Staton, Clem, and Delgaudio.

There's no reason Rt. 50 coming into Loudoun should end up looking like the "strip mall" areas of Rt. 234 in manassas, with the Rt. 50 Architectural Recommendations fully vetted and agreed upon at this point.

How much money will Steve Snow make if these stores are built?

At the request of my neighbors who live in the immediate vicinity, I spoke against this unwanted strip-mall and in favor of reconsidering the first vote to approve it. It's shocking that the board majority wouldn't even let two supervisors who were unable to participate in the initial debate have a chance to comment, particularly when the public sentiment is so clearly against the project.

But that's this majority's way of doing things: it listens to what the developers want, not to the residents. That's why the "Route 50 Task Force" was mostly composed of developers. My neighbors in Dulles South have told me, for a long time, that residents who opposed what the developers wanted were largely ignored or frozen out of that process.

Nevertheless, the voices of the members of that community can still be heard in opposition to excessive retail. Unfortunately, it appears they are also still ignored.

Stevens Miller
Candidate
Loudoun BOS (Dulles)
www.miller4dulles.com

Mr. Miller, the Piedmont Environmental Council, which is the founder and parent group of all of the citizens' groups referenced here, was invited to participate in the Route 50 Task Force, and to lead the section on landscaping, architectural guidelines, and integration of historic tourism wayfinding.

Guess what? They chose NOT to participate, but held their own separate visioning session. One, as opposed to the literally dozens of meetings held by the various task force groups. I attended the Piedmont Environmental Council's single session, and found the facilitation and guidance from the Fairfax Coalition for Smarter Growth (itself a subsidiary of the Piedmont Environmental Council) and the D.C. Chapter of the Sierra Club quite enlightening.

If you believe that only developers participated in the two year+ work of the task force, then it confirms that you yourself did not. Not only was each section led by both a citizen of the area in conjunction with a representative of the development entity owning the most land in said area, but the section in which both the Shops at Arcola and Dulles Landing are situated had extensive citizen participation from long term residents of Arcola, as well as members of the only African American family in Loudoun County to own property with Route 50 frontage.

All sections included citizen landowners.

The Transition Zone and other by-right residents quoted here could have participated in any sections, including the ones that were nearest to their property. That they chose NOT to do so is unfortunate.

I am one of the dozens of residents who spoke or wrote the BoS in favor of both the Dulles Landing application and the Arcola Center application. People who complain about duplication of businesses apparently do not understand the free market. While some may grieve for the "small businesses" that might be hurt by competition, the market shows over and over again that the builder of "the better mousetrap" prevails to the benefit of those who are spending their money. If people want to spend more for less, they are welcome to, that is the beauty of the marketplace. Right now, while the audiance is captive, there are plenty of chances to spend more for less. Some of us remember when the only gas station near South Riding enjoyed gauging us with obscene gas prices, but guess what happened when Sheetz and 7-11 came, the prices fell dramatically. For those of you who long for the days of only one gas station, I invite you to leave an extra $3-4 on the counter of your favorite overpriced vendor every time you fill your gas tank. I'm sure that they'll love you for it.

The Dulles Landing application is NOT a strip mall. I'd venture to guess that most of the people complaining about any of these applications have never even seen the plans and further don't understand that the by-right alternative was industrial uses (read lots more truck traffic). The location of these businesses that most of us will frequent means that we won't have to drive to Fairfax. In the ultimate irony they are particularly convenient to the people west of the area who currently drive down a very crowded Route 50 to do their shopping. The same ones who whined incessantly for "no more houses" because that would create traffic on 50. Ask yourself how interested in a swifter Route 50 people can be when they want traffic CALMING (read slowing) west from Gilberts Corner. Face it, some of these people don't want one more thing built on another parcel of land (as if this is even a possibility) and more disturbing they act like they know more about retail than the professionals do. Do you think that Wal-Mart or Lowe's or Target or Kohl's would be coming here to embrace our business if they didn't have hard numbers to support the fact that their multi-million dollar investments would pay off?

Supervisor Snow isn't making a penny off of this application. It is offensive that people spit that crap out and worse that some people believe it simply because someone who dislikes him says it. There is not a shred of credible evidence that Snow has benefited financially off of a single application he supports. If you don't support his vision, that's your perogative, but lying about his motivation for working with developers to get road proffers shouldn't be the way you engage in debate.

I WAS a member of the Route 50 task force. I don't work for a builder and have never made a cent off of development. I worked on the process because I believe a more attractive, limited access Route 50 is good for me and my neighbors. The vision is in place now. The shame is most people have no idea what they would have had without the work of the hundred or so volunteers on the task force. Perpetually naked land was never an option. . . disorganized commercial light industrial with no landscape, minimal setbacks and no architectural guidelines was what we would have had, NOT pastures and forests!

I thought WAPO didn't allow lewd material? Need to check the origins of "Heywood".

TNM, unfortunately that IS the level of a significant chunk of blog participation in Loudoun.

While there are legitimate contributors to a variety of electronic forums, some use an arsenal of "clever" IDs to appear like a throng , and others use their own name but print juvenile attacks.

One gent refers to me by my initials as "proof that God has a sense of humor", and calls four members of the sitting Board "STDS".

And folks wonder why we are adapting to change so well out here!

I was wondering, considering the location of these shopping centers, how will people get to and from them except via Rt50? Are there any plans to improve the roads in the area. Rt606 doesnt really go anywhere yet and there are few cut-throughs. While development is necessary to support the population, the commonwealth needs to build these roads or at least connect the dots between developers.

Ms. Smith,
1) I never said I disliked him.
2) As for a shred of credible evidence, ask Mr. Snow who he works for and who pays him lots of money. A developer! And he is on the BoS who votes on whether or not developers get to build and make a huge profit.
3) He is entitled to his vision. Except that when he came by my house trying to get elected, his vision was smart growth (for Loudoun County, not Steve Snow's wallet.)
4) I never lied. I asked a question in an attempt to get people to think and learn for themselves about issues that may affect them.

TNM,
What did I say that was lewd? Or do you just not like that I have as much right to speak my mind as you do, even though you may disagree with what I say.

Ms. Munsey,
Are you suggesting that I am illegitimate? Why, because you disagree with me?

If your intent is to censor me, The Liberal, I mean Washington, Post has censored me for language. I (mistakenly) thought that the 1st Amendment to the Constitution applied here. So now I use nice, happy words.

If you don't like my name, I'll let my parents, Larry and Doris Jablome, know how you feel. How do you think I feel having that name? I used to get beat up every day until I graduated high school. I only had three friends my whole life, Dick Hurtz, Mike Hunt and Seymore Butts. Then I met my wonderful wife, Amanda Huginkis. I've learned to overcome the predjudice of people who tease me and I am happy with my life. It's not like I have a brain tumor. (Actually, I do.)

Exbubba: the Shops and the Landing applications provide improvements to both 606 and 50, as well as construct a northern collector paralleling 50. This provides a crucial portion of the grid in the NW quad of the 50/606 intersection, for which both are making contributions as well.

That was the purpose of all of the Dulles South planning: to use the (ongoing) development of the area to construct the road grid.

You may wish to look into both the Dulles South Transportation Alliance and the Dulles Loop projects. Both seek to coordinate and fill in the very gaps you discuss, as the state is primarily content to TAKE our money, as opposed to fulfill their duty of building us any roads with it!

Hey/wood/Ja/blo/me: I believe you left out your doppelganger, the equally supercilious fake drunk at TooConservative who charmingly signs his posts with "pardon me while I: Ben Dover". He used a remarkably similar line of patter when discussing his family of eponymous ever-so-clevers.

It is not my place to censor you. If the Post wishes to read your posts aloud, I've no doubt they'll come up with something appropriate.

I don't recall that Steve Snow ever said he was in lockstep with the undefined buzzword "smart growth" as it was always used in Loudoun (which produced our appalling lack of infrastucture and jumble of unplanned by-right growth).

He has always supported planned growth, which to me seems much smarter.

"Planned Growth" as it benefits some, more than others? How do you, or Steve Snow, define "planned growth"? Great when it benefits developers and certain others, not so great when it benefits the residents of Loudoun County? Who is Steve Snow employed by agaain?

HJ,

This post probably won't be very appealing to you absent the sophomoric humor you seem to embrace. Steve Snow does NOT work for a developer. He works for Deitz Construction, a commercial construction company that does not develop communities or build residential property. Further, he has only worked for them for the past couple of months. Snow has never even had to recuse himself from any application that they have had before the BoS because they haven't had any since before he accepted a job with them. It seems unlikely that you don't know this considering who you are. You are well aware that he is not making any money on the development in Loudoun County, but you and so many like you persist in making members of the development community the villians and making anyone who supports carefully planned development evil by association. This ridiculous notion will only fly with people who CHOOSE an expedient (albeit FALSE) explanation for a very complicated issue.

What the heck is smart growth anyway? The problem with tossing around an undefined phrase is that it means different things to different people. By-right is NOT smart because it comes without any mitigation for the infrastructure needs. Houses on big lots slowly choking the western part of the county is NOT smart growth. High-rise densely packed homes around metros might be "smart" to some people who imagine that those who live near a metro will most certainly use it exclusively, but America has a love affair with her cars and high rises do not equal less cars on the roads.

Where is your evidence of ANY wrongdoing?

BTW, back to the topic. . . 11 local businesses did NOT sign a petition. . . 11 employees of 5 businesses signed it. I have a bit of difficulty feeling sorry for businesses like Giant (who certainly didn't mind swooping in on Food Lion's "turf") or Cingular Wireless (of which there are three stores within 2 miles of each other likely competing with each other as much as anything) or Bloom (formerly Food Lion)that couldn't be much nicer now that they made their upgrades (maybe to be competitive?). These are not small businesses. The residents are winners when the market is left to compete, so now I am asked to believe that only with protection from competition will our local businesses make it? Poppycock! They will make it if they have a service that enough people want. I hate it when people expect government to regulate, they are notoriously bad at regulation, just look at any communist country for great examples of failed regulation!

We plan for everything important, why not carefully planned and well mitigated residential and commercial growth too?

First of all, yes, I LOVE sophomoric humor. The Three Stooges are GODS!! Second, I have not accused Steve Snow of any wrongdoing. I, personally do not like the job he is doing as a member of the BoS, (or any of them for that matter) however politicians have been self-focused imbeciles for hundreds of years here in the United States, and I don't see it changing any time soon. Whether you want to call it 'Smart Growth' or 'Planned Growth', it isn't happening here in Loudoun County. There is a ridiculous amount of traffic here. I love having stores convenient to where I live. I love that there is going to be a Target right next to the Wegman's at Rt. 28 & Waxpool Road, as well as several other shops that haven't been built yet, only 4 miles from my home. What I don't like, and what the BoS (every one of them, including Steve Snow) has absolutely no excuse for, is allowing these stores to be built without the roads in place to handle the traffic. That doesn't mean increasing Waxpool Road from two lanes each way to three, and adding 9 traffic signal between Claiborne and Rt. 28. That is why all of these people who said "Hey, I just got a job at AOL/MCI so I will buy a nice home for my family only 4 miles away." And after their first day of work are saying "Gee, I wonder why it took me 45 minutes to drive 4 miles." Route 28 is great. they did a great job of getting most of the traffic signals turned into interchanges, HOWEVER, if all of the feeder roads are a mess, then they don't get to say "Look at what a great job I did as BoS with the traffic. Re-elect me." As for the Rt. 50 corridor, I don't live in South Riding (you already don't like me, so I can say that now). More shopping is great (in my humble opinion), but if there is a traffic signal every 1/4 mile and they are all timed perfectly so that you have to stop at every light, then people are going to be upset and recognize for themselves that the traffic plan isn't working. Whether it is building more residential or commercial property, if there aren't sufficient roads also, it isn't smart or planned growth. It's the kind of growth on your Pituitary Gland that slowly distorts your vision until they have to pull it out via your nose, a la Total Recall.

Wow...I'll take more of those sophmoric responses there Heywood! What's everyone getting so uptight about. Geez..not like he's posting nudie pictures. He's having a little, HARMLESS, fun. Loosen up the shorts and you'll live longer.

What I find sophmoric is those of you who honestly think you can control growth. What delusional thinking that is! I find that much less humorous than Heywood's nom de plume! You've been beating that anti-growth drum for years and what have you gotten? More development! Bigger development!

Why? Both the BOS and Board of Education wag a craggly finger on one hand as if to say no growth, while having the other is busily rooting around the pockets of the developers. And that's not why the FBI is investigating the BOS? Plluuuueeeze! I just didn't walk in outta the fields here, boys and girls.

My mama always taught me, it's not right to lie and it's a sin to lie to yourself. Some of you all are lying your little bottoms off!

Dear Mr. Jablome, Are you Italian? Just wondering...with your name ending a vowel and all.

I simply can't argue with his logic. Post on intrepid soul!

Dear Ms. Smith and Munsey,

Before you get indignant about Heywood's name...in these days of stalkers, perverts and
miscreants...what *fool* posts their real FULL name on an unrestricted Internet blog?

Still think his name is sophmoric? Think about it.

"By-right is NOT smart because it comes without any mitigation for the infrastructure needs."

The answer is certainly not rezonings which are bad all the way around. Rezonings never make sense as they cause WAY more of an impact than they "contribute" in infrastructure. But don't let this little fact get in the way of you paving over Loudoun.

"Houses on big lots slowly choking the western part of the county is NOT smart growth."

Actually the big lot development in the west is FAR better than anything built in the east or South Riding from a tax burden or traffic standpoint. It is not as low impact as open farmland but it is certainly better than 10,000 sg ft lots. Of course we can blame the Barton board for the A-3 mess to begin with.

"By-right is NOT smart because it comes without any mitigation for the infrastructure needs."

The answer is certainly not rezonings which are bad all the way around. Rezonings never make sense as they cause WAY more of an impact than they "contribute" in infrastructure. But don't let this little fact get in the way of you paving over Loudoun.

"Houses on big lots slowly choking the western part of the county is NOT smart growth."

Actually the big lot development in the west is FAR better than anything built in the east or South Riding from a tax burden or traffic standpoint. It is not as low impact as open farmland but it is certainly better than 10,000 sg ft lots. Of course we can blame the Barton board for the A-3 mess to begin with.

The Barbara Munsey - Stephanie Smith tag team is back!

Stephanie, some clarifications:
*My understanding is that Dietze (sp?) is a commercial contractor, i.e. they do not go through the approvals process to develop land, they bid on the end/approved product and construct it. So yes, it is NOT the evil homes that we all live in, but no, they don't develop, they build. Snow is on record as saying that anything of that company that comes before the County is a matter for recusal, and to my knowledge he is not, and will not be, assigned to anything within Loudoun by the company.

*The most recent petition. Delegate Marshall presented the opinion of Giant, Bloom and Cingular, along with a couple of small independent businesses, against additional retail in the Route 50 corridor. This is interesting on several levels.

First, if a corporate entity has a policy on a particular subject and chooses to make that policy known in the legislative process, the standard is to send a corporate representative to enter it into the record. Witness the recent participation of Luck Stone in the Ridgewater Park review. They had official representatives at every meeting, who so identified themselves on the record.

The petition sheets presented by Marshall referenced "owners and managers", yet he did not specify that these were employees or franchise holders in the cases of the large corporations. He simply said the corporate names in stating that "Giant, Bloom and Cingular Wireless" were opposed.

Preliminary follow-up shows that none of these three large corporate entities has a specific policy regarding retail development in the Route 50 corridor of Loudoun County, and none authorized Mr. Marshall or anyone else to present one on their behalf.

Two of the local stores of the large businesses whose employees signed said a "very nice guy" came in and told them that unless they signed the petition, "a Walmart would be built and all the other stores would go out of business". The manager of Bloom had not heard of it at all.

It does not yet appear that any of the three corporations has a specific policy regarding Walmart either.

The petition language does not mention Walmart at all.

Regarding Mr. Blome and the others who will gravitate here to politick, spread partial info and bash South Riding and other planned communities (Hi, Eric! Hi, LI!) all I can quote is that other rule of safe and happy internet communication: Don't feed the trolls.

Buffetbassman: you're right, to say you're going to "control" growth is pretty silly. That's why the "if we just say no to everything and stop" rhetoric is counterproductive. The most we can do is use the tools and process to try to shape as much as we can of the rolling tide, because until the market stops, it won't either.

Another good reason to become educated and actually participate, instead of protest with fragmented soundbytes.

Back to the actual blog entries: One that keeps nagging at me is the quote about how we will become a bedroom community and then need affordable housing.

Hello? The person who said it is part of the EXISTING bedroom community phenomenon. Furthermore, the county MUST have an affordable housing policy and provide affordable housing because it is a STATE MANDATE. The Commission was up in Leesburg last night working on revisions to it for several hours.

Affordable housing is grossly in arrears in Loudoun with our highest median income status, and the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of approved homes we endlessly hear about being on the books are hardly classified as "affordable". Many are simply by-right numbers applied to raw land for the last round of the downzoning wars, and as such qualify for what used to be called McMansions.

According to this very paper, affordable housing in the DC Metro area stands to potentially lose over 25,000 units in the next few years as local Section 8 contracts come up for renewal. Land values have risen so dramatically since the contracts were entered into that it is up in the air what may be renewed.

Gee, limiting supply in the face of demand doesn't cause the value of the commodity to rise, does it? Doesn't "smart growth" solve that?

As for "just build offices and the residents will work there", much easier said than done. Sounds nice, but we haven't quite reached that level of collective yet.

This can be a great forum for discussion. I think Val (who actually IS my neighbor--literally around the corner) deserves better than the usual politicized mess that passes for informed discourse in Loudoun, if she is going to be brave enough to put her name on timely topics.

Get back to the basics!
My comments are these..
...when 75% of the residents who responded said they don't want this development, then the representatives should do what their title implies - and represent the majority (who, by the way, voted for them). I'd like to know whatever happened to being elected "by the people, for the people".
...when roadways catchup with the growth that has occurred over the past 10 years, only THEN should Loudoun permit more growth. If developers want to put in more retail or homes in a certain area, then they should be forced to fix the mess of the area that's there. Yea, I know - it was there before, but this will solve some problems in two different ways. Either the developer moves on to another County, or the roads (read, congestion areas) get fixed!
I may be naive, but what the hey - when you've got other people childishly insulting each other's views on here the way I just read, I can add my silly 2 cents in and not feel so badly.

small voice, you don't sound silly. You do sound like a tally of 60 e-mails in a county of over a quarter million should be the last word on the subject though..

Three to one sounds overwhelming, but it is 75% of what? Of the 60 county e-mails that came in response to an e-mail request from Mr. Miller and the citizens group, most in opposition were from people living (and working) nowhere near the site.

While it is of interest and concern what Lovettsville and Middleburg residents think of commercial opportunities in Dulles, I can't think of many times that residents of Dulles South have lobbied the board for or against B&B expansions in Blue Ridge, or commented on what they think needs to be done in the Lovettsville Town Center. Neither can I recall residents of either of those rural areas soliciting opinion from the suburbs before forming an opinion.

What was the pro/con ratio of people who actually live here?

Ms. Munsey,
1)As far as politicking, how come when (according to you) I do it, I'm wrong, but when someone questions Steve Snow and the people who he appointed to positions withing government respond and put their own spin on things, it's alright.
2)I think that spreading partial info (which I don't believe I did) is better than providing mis-info.
3)I never bashed South Riding or any other planned community. However when you don't complete the plan, or your plan stinks from the beginning, planned communities including South Riding, will suffer as a result.
4)"...rule of safe and happy internet comunication..."? What is unsafe about this blog? The only thing I can see that is unhappy is certain people who don't get to force their views on everyone else without some "illegitimate" questioning them.
p.s. The name is Jablome, not Blome.

As for our elected officials, unfortunately an incredibly small number of people actually voted in the last Bos election. What we have been dealing with for the last four years is a direct result. Please, please, please people-get out there and vote this year! Did I say please?

As for our elected officials, unfortunately an incredibly small number of people actually voted in the last Bos election. What we have been dealing with for the last four years is a direct result. Please, please, please people-get out there and vote this year! Did I say please?

I appreciate your response, Ms. Munsey, but I have to disagree.

I don't think it's fair to discount or ignore any Loudoun County residents' opinions just because they don't reside in an area being discussed. Just because I don't live in South Riding doesn't necessarily mean I shouldn't have a voice in any County matter. An example - perhaps my work commute must take me onto Route 50 because I cannot afford to live close to my job.

I am a Loudoun County resident and anything our BOS discusses that I feel may affect me (that is the key), I believe I should be authorized to comment on, no matter which part of the County in which I live.

Just food for thought...

If 60 people told the BoS that they wanted to them to raise taxes by 25% would they be obliged to do it? How about if 60 people told them they wanted the County to condemn the land of an individual to build a school? How about a multimillion dollar employer? The RIGHTS of even one are never less important than what a million people WANT that one to sacrifice for their desires.

Small Voice, you seem very much confused by the concept of representative government. Elected officials are not there to listen to the loudest screamers or the empassioned few and do what that 1 or 2% (or in this case far less than even a tenth of a percent). They are there to serve ALL of the people (that's the "for the people" part, it doesn't say "for the loudest people") in a manner consistent with what they PERSONALLY believe is best for the whole of the County. Resident comment can play a role in helping an official determine what action he might ultimately take, but he is in no way obliged to act in any manner except as his conscious compels him. Ultimately the recourse of a large group of disenchanted people is at the polls every four years.

Building roads before the houses can be built or the businesses can come might sound like a simple solution to the problem of insufficient roads, but such a suggested solution ignores the way roads are funded. The developers pay for roads almost exclusively in VA. They build the roads as a part of proffers for a rezoning. The best that can be done is to promote the voluntary agreement to time the roads so that none of the homes or occupation of the businesses can happen until after the roads have been done. The applications that started this "discussion" ARE timing the road improvements to be constructed up front. You can thank Steve Snow, county transportation staff and the Rt 50 TF members for that.

What is the relief that you would offer to the property owners who have owned and paid taxes on their land for decades? Are they to let it lay unused forever while the State refuses to even maintain roads never mind build them? It is actually as illegal as it is immoral to hold a property owner hostage to the inaction of government to solve infrastructure problems. The Dulles Landing property could have gone with industrial applications as a by-right usage without any need to apply for anything with the County. I doubt anyone would have actually prefered that. Instead some think that if they tell the BoS to deny the application that the land will forever be a vacant forest. When I was a kid I really thought that wishing hard enough would make my desires come true. . . then I grew up.

small voice, I don't think I or anyone else here has said those opinions don't count. The question becomes how much weight to attach to them.

I grew up in Northern VA, and remember when several parcels in Arlington had horses. Private parcels (two on North Glebe Rd), not just the Old Guard at Fort Myer. I lived in McLean, there were dirt roads there, some people actually still farmed or kept cows and chickens, and it was not unusual to see people riding out on the streets. I learned to ride on a farm that is now part of the condo/office portion of Tyson's Corner.

I remember what Tyson's looked like when there was nothing there but a mom and pop at a crossroads, and you could see the National Cathedral on the horizon, with one entire wing still near-roofless and under scaffold.

Throughout the debate on the planning of Route 50, residents and landowners who support the planning may be in much the same position as I am with the area in general when they look around at the place they have lived in for 20 or 30 years, or more.

They state, for the record, that when they moved to Loudoun (or grew up there), things were entirely rural, and very different. But, as some have stated, things have changed. The change is to some degree inevitable, and while they can no longer ride down 621, 659 (or 50!), some of the changes are welcome.

One woman told me of how happy she is with even the carwash--because to exit their property they must ford a creek on a dirt road, and through the years it has seemed like an embarrassment and a lack of respect when attending a funeral to follow in the procession with a vehicle muddied and dirty.

Numerous long term residents are happy to have the opportunity to not only spend their money in Loudoun, but to have a choice nearby of where to shop, eat, get a haircut and so on.

Add in the general industrial zoning that was plopped down on top of Arcola under the preceding Board, and there were residents of 20 years standing or more who then faced the prospect of by-right cement plants, crematoria and other potential new "neighbors" literally adjoining their now non-conforming lots (read total loss of property value in the home where they had raised a family).

Granted, there are people who have moved to low-density areas of Dulles in the past few years who believe they've moved to the country, or as much country as works with the amount of home they desire, and their commute, etc, but guess what?

These other people who have been living here quite a while and watched everything change around them didn't go and demand that the homes now occupied by some who protest not be built.

Furthermore, some of these people who moved here 20 and 30 years ago to have a rural life, maybe keep some animals, have some space, have the added pleasure of being called "greedy developers" by a small portion of these same new neighbors, if they make the choice to sell their land (operative word "THEIR") and move elsewhere for some of the same things they had before ALL OF US got here.

So no, how someone feels and thinks about land use in an area they do not live in is not unimportant. I simply feel that because one person (or 3, or 50) stand up and say "no" that that should not equal the end of it, face value, period.

I also feel that the curse of Northern Virginia has been both its plenty (read taxes for Richmond to get drunk on), and a very bad case of wistful thinking: "if we just don't build roads-houses-, then NOTHING WILL CHANGE".

Nope. We just end up with no roads, no land for schools parks you-name-it.

To then turn around and say we can only build by right "until things catch up" is ludicrous, because by right ensures that there will be NO LAND to catch up with. It will all be used in unplanned and unintegrated (continuing) growth.

Catch 22 is a fun game (and one of my favorite books), but sooner or later any game is game over.

Dear Ms. Smith.
I have a few questions. You said "Steve Snow does NOT work for a developer. He works for Deitz Construction, a commercial construction company that does not develop communities or build residential property.
OK>>>
1) What does Mr. Smith do for Deitz Construction?
2) Does Deitz Construction have any jobs here in Loudoun?
3) Does Deitz Constuction serve to make any money granted to other construction co,s as a secondary hired by the construction co. and not the county?
4) Reguardless if "Deitz" does not get the contract.. Mr. Snow should not be working for a construction co. that has any business here in Loudoun. And I am sorry to say they have no business interest here in Loudoun is nothing but a lie PERIOD!

I was wondering why no BOS people came to the new opening of the Jail near Leesburg?
They should could call the top bunk....
Heywood I feel for you brother!

If we take an open vote here in Loudoun about the construction off of Rt. 50. I would say beyond any question the idea would be voted down by overwhelming numbers. My first experience with this was a meeting last year at a middle school off of Rt. 50. I went there with a open mind wanting to find out what was going to be built. It made me sick to my stomach! One guy was there wearing a construction cap with an American Flag printed on it and talking down to anyone who was questioning the construction. He has a large farm in Leesburg owned by his family 'for generations" And wants to welcome new homes for new neighbors. The only thing he did not say was the amount of money he was going to make selling land after this was ok'd. The people running the meeting looked with disgust at anyone who was against the plan. As for me I was not turned by any of the non county construction co. employees pretending to be Loudoun County Residents that were all for the plan. I did see alot of Fairfax County stickers on the cars out in the parking lot. The plan does not make any sence and will lead to nothing but over crowded schools and bigger traffic jams just like Fairfax.

I agree with "Me". I moved here from Fairfax to get away from that problem. Now they messed up Fairfax and want to get their greedy hands no the land out here.

On a completely unrelated topic, did anyone see today's Loudoun Times-Mirror? Not that the articles are about anyone on this blog, but there are two interesting articles on the front page: 'FBI talks to leaders' and 'Board will not reconsider mall rezoning'. Everyone should check them out. ;)

SOOO...looking at this weeks Loudoun Times-Mirror...front page.

And WHO is the FBI investigating to see if certain BOD member have been advised on how to vote on development issues by members of the development communnity?

Why it appears that Bruce Tulloch and our blog favorite, Steve Snow!

Where there's smoke, there's fire?

Buffetbassman,

I liked the quote right at the end from attorney Roscoe Howard, Jr. on why the proceeedings of the investigation are to be secret \\\"this allows prosecutors to go about their case without tipping off possible defendants and it allows those being investigated not to be smeared until charges are actually brought\\\".

Mr Howard doesn\\\'t seem to understand the purpose of this investigation at all. The purpose IS to smear those under investigation as much as possible before their five years of torture are up (2012 is the deadline to end this). \\\"Current Supervisors named in the probe\\\" is antithetical to the concept of this remaining secret. ALL of the Supervisors and apparently other players have been questioned. I guess that means that ALL of them are named in the probe. Front page coverage of no more findings. Gee I wonder what the goal of that story was. Stir up crap maybe? Mission accomplished.

Here's the facts: someone in the AG's office felt there was enough to pursue, so they did. Potential investigations are vetted before being assigned to field staff. The purpose of the investigation is not to determine guilt or innocence, it's to determine if there's enough to file charges and pursue an indictment.

If this investigation rises leads to indictments, that remains to be seen. The crap you smell is your denial that there is nothing there to investigate. Let's just say I have enough first hand experience with how cases become investigations to know better. There's more than just a citizen complaint that mobilizes a federal investigation.

Want to take bets to see if there's a perp walk at the end of this?

Look, if you don't want the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Don't expect me to feel bad about anyone who runs for public office and ends up on the pointy part of a federal investigation. We should ALL expect our leaders to do it better and cleaner than we do. That's exactly why the FBI has an entire division that does government abuse investigations. Right here in the Washington Field Office.

This would be funny if it weren't so pitiful. The Post and the Times Mirror are playing tag team in the standard LoCo election year game.

Old News is right, but s/he might want to change their name to NO News (or just add the ID if they want to play the LoCo blog game "Sybil", along with better than half the posts here).

I cannot recall an election since I've lived here where there was not some huge formless scandal that was waved throughout the campaign, and then lo and behold two months after the election a blurb appears on a far-inside page saying "never mind, it was nothing after all".

This is the way the game is played in Loudoun, and it no doubt has its basis in cynical exploitation of the fact that 1000 new people move in every month: tell a few inferential juicies over and over, and some people will believe it, even subconsciously.

The Times Mirror is an interesting bird--it went free about a year ago, and now has the opportunity to spread whatever the hitpiece of the moment is on every doorstep.

The founder is a scion of hunt country who cut his journalistic teeth writing "copy" for the CIA, which has many as-retired-as-one-gets former honchos scattered throughout the rural area.

The Post, on the subject of Loudoun, has become little more than an embodiment of the old Monty Python sketch "Interviewer's Island", in which journalists on a desert isle interview and cover each other 24-7-365.

It should be an embarrassment for the premier newspaper in the nation's capital to cover as many of their employees as they do (many of whom also live in the rural area), and manufacture news for political purposes.

The current owning family of the Post has strong ties to hunt country through their Glen Welby estate (currently rumored to be up for sale, but with a long history)

A former owner once owned Oatlands.

A former editor founded the Unison Historic District, which is now "The battle that changed the course of the Civil War" based on a six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon extrapolation connecting McClellan's handling of the Shenandoah Campaign (on the other side of the mountains) with a wagon that was destroyed three miles north of the village after a three day walk from Snicker's Gap (as opposed to a three day battle IN the village).

The Post's coverage certainly hasn't aided that effort to historify anything, has it? No more than their coverage of the Disney fiasco created the modern Piedmont Environmental Council as a political juggernaut.

The massive FOIA on which these non-stories are based occurred nearly two years ago.

Where's the beef?

IS there any?

I'm sure as soon as an interval of vacations and move-ins has passed (and most probably on the day the Board meets for its first session after the August recess), the Post can write another EDITORIAL quoting its own reporters by name, and run through the laundry list of gossip again to keep the story alive.

And the blogs will light up with Concerned! Had it with Crooks! Iwanna Hurl! Ashamed of my Republican Party! Tired of Criminals! Longterm Resident!

...and they'll have the same three IPs.

Oh my, the tag team attack dogs and their alias' are back. I thought Stephanie and Barbara had been muzzled.

What is it about Barbara and the PEC? She seems to think the PEC is behind everything she doesn't agree with. BTW, what happened with the ethics investigation against Barbara? Was there ever a report made?

I wonder when these two will be getting their jobs at Dietz Construction. Dietz is all over the County and I am sure Dietz is pleased as punch at the new commercial develop being approved by their star employee Mr. Snow.

Gee, I never would have guessed that since the Loudoun Times-Mirror printed an article about (alledged) wrongdoing by certain members of the BoS, that supporters of thos BoS members would point out how poor of a job the paper does. A newspaper points out when someone (alledgedly) does something wrong/bad/illegal/incompetent, and instead of providing verifiable facts as to that person's uninvolvement, supporters attack the newspaper's credibility.
Do you like donuts? The truth hurts, don't it.:)

NotSteve, what ethics investigation? Do you mean the citizen complaint about the questioning of the petition and the attorney? The County Attorney's response to that is a matter of record. Any "ethics investigation" is news to me.

Oh wait, is the FBI after me too?

Snap! I forgot about being seen with someone who once had coffee with someone who used to date someone whose cousin's wife's friend used to own property that was considered for a scene in "Footloose!"

Or was it "Flatliners"?

"Animal House"?

hmmmmm, maybe "The Air Up There".....

Speaking of six degrees of involvement, go ahead and look up the records on nearly every growth opposition group in Loudoun in the past 15 years or more. The same groups under different names, over and over, all of whom have the PEC handle their money (to the tune of several million each year, most of which is spent on lobbying). The same people, over and over, some of whom also turn up on tax records as employees of the PEC. Smoke? Fire? WaddlewaddleQuack?

I hear one of the PEC Directors that Governor Kaine appointed to the Commonwealth Transportation Board (and who also donated in the 6 figures to the Governor during his campaign) has resigned that CTB position (about the time the articles came out regarding his push for a Tyson's tunnel for rail right under property he owns in Tysons--but he ISN'T A DEVELOPER!), but I haven't seen the resignation covered in any of the papers.

Must not be NEWS.

It seems so expedient for people to pigeonhole those who don't share their ideas. I do not now, nor have I ever worked for a developer. I have not made a penny from my support of planned development. I shant be taking a job with the building contractor Deitz or any developers, not because I do not see the value of the work but because I enjoy my current career and volunteer efforts and am neither in need nor desirous of any other employment. Why must you tie me to developers with your shameless remarks? Can you possibly be so ignorant to believe that anyone who promotes planned development must be making some profit from development?

I have had numerous conversations with Steve Snow. I consider him a good friend and an honorable man. It is difficult for me to read lies about him or to see opportunistic hit pieces that have no real substance. It would be better for my own personal mental health to not get drawn into these "I hate Steve Snow" blog threads, but Steve works hard for me and my neighbors and I sometimes can't just sit on the sidelines while his detractors attack him. To answer Loudoun Resident from July 11th . . . Mr. Smith doesn't do anything for Deitz construction, I don't know what Mr. Snow does for them but whatever it is it's for projects in Fairfax, not Loudoun. Yes, Deitz has jobs in Loudoun.I don't know whether Deitz stands to make second hand money from jobs, I don't even know what that means.I did not say that they have no business interest here. I appreciate your opinion that you don't think Mr. Snow should be allowed to work for a construction company that does work in the County, but you don't get to make that decision. There is not a conflict in working for a commercial developer just because they do work in Loudoun County. You are reaching for a reason to discredit Steve and it's not legit.

Steve Snow didn't have time to come to the opening of the jail because he was busy at the groundbreaking of the Dulles South Multiuse Facility. He was doing what he does best, working his butt off for the people of the Dulles District (and the whole County with the Youth Initiative) to make it an even better place to live. No politician has ever worked harder for his constituents to accomplish so many incredible goals in such a short period of time than Steve has. He did some of this through the help of people in the development community so for some it is necessary to convince people that developers are evil, and Steve is evil for working with them and anyone who likes Steve must be connected to the Developers and therefor evil too. It isn't true and reasonable people know it isn't true.

Small Voice.... you don't feel badly. That means the mechanism that allows you to feel is defective.
You feel BAD.
:-)

The FBI's public corruption division safe guards us from scum who run for public office and break the public trust by profiting off of their public service.

An investigation does NOT prove guilt. In kind, a stopped investigation DOES NOT prove innocence. It simply proves that there was not enough to move forward with charges. That does NOT mean there wasn't wrong doing.

I believe in the criminal justice system gets it right most of the time. If the Supervisor's have done nothing wrong, there's NOTHING to be worried about, is there?

I HATE crooked politicians. They are the same as rapists, child molesters, wife beaters and murders!

Barbara, I wish you no ill will. I don't know you from Eve. I hope for the supervisors family's sake, you're right that there's nothing there.

My gut is telling me you're wrong. I've been around this stuff long enough.I have a bet with Heywood there's a perp walk at the end of this investigation.

And at that point, I'll cook the crow for you and all the BoS' defenders on my nice new, $1200 grill.

Buffetbassman,

I hate crooked politicians too! And crooked businessmen and liars and cheaters and thieves of all kinds. . .

I am confident that Snow will be cleared, just as he was cleared in the investigation instigated by ONE MAN alleging campaign finance violations and conflict of interest. This matter was resolved recently by Jim Fisher of the Commonwealth Attorneys Office. The allegations got coverage far and wide. . . the exoneration barely a mention. The investigation took its toll on campaign volunteers and cost time and money (the likely goal from the onset) and in the end it came as no surprise to most that there was in fact NO WRONGDOING. The complainant should have to pay back the time and cost that the CA's Office wasted on the investigation.

I don't believe that there will be a "perp walk" for Snow. If I knew who you are, I would bet you ANY sum. Can you even remember what it was that he did that was so bad according to the Post series? He sent an e-mail to a personal friend on his government e-mail account expressing his dislike of another Supervisor. Boy that is one aggregious felony isn't it?

Did you see the recent coverage of Scott York's alleged conflicts of interest acting as an agent of his company by sitting in on meetings with County Staff as a rep of the company? Probably not because the story got minimal coverage. I'm sure that you'll express your righteous indignation over those actions too.

You might be willing to cook and eat crow in 2012 when these "investigations" run out, but most will simply blow it off as yesterday's news or they will imply that there was a coverup of the "truth". The "truthiness" as Steven Colbert calls it that cannot be bothered with facts.

Stephanie,

"Steve works hard for me and my neighbors"

Makes sense to me because you're in South Riding. But Snow also represents part of Ashburn, believe it or not. And he certainly doesn't work hard (or at all for that matter) for me or my neighbors. Oh,, I'm sorry-I forgot about the election year "Waxpool Task Force". So, one year out of four isn't so bad...

Buffetbassman--thank you for the kind words! I don't wish you any ill either. (Are you a Parrothead who plays bass, or someone who loves a good spread of bass?)

I gather there have been a lot a people questioned on this, but my main focus is Steve because that's who I work with. I don't believe there will be any "perp walk" for him, just as there was none in the pre-convention manufactured scandal.

These are the politics of people who have NO ISSUES. Attack, smear, throw mud and worse and see what sticks. It is the same spaghetti method that is used to delay, defeat and deny any attempts to plan growth: throw handfuls of crud in every direction, and see what sticks.

The anonymous poster at 7:21 is right about the last attack on Snow: the breathless complaint designed to (try to) leverage the Republican convention was announced with fanfare on page one of the Metro section of the Post. Breakfast conversation all over the greater Metro area, and at newsstands around the country and the globe. The denouement (that absolutely NOTHING occurred) was printed in a subparagraph of a news "roundup" on an inside page of a weekly local insert.

No apologies. In fact it is still being used as a "righteous" way to get around the Republican pledge and continue to attack Steve, by some of the same people who want those who chose to file as Independants thrown out of the party.

Double standard is fine for some, huh?

I take a bit of issue with your characterization that no charges doesn't prove innocence. In one way you are correct: it doesn't necessarily PROVE that absolutely nothing occurred. However, it smells of the same mud throwing to conclude that it DOES PROVE that the "perp" was simply good at hiding the evidence, because it continues to assume guilt.

I too believe that the law enforcement agencies are pretty good at their jobs. I also know that they are duty bound to investigate when a crime is alleged (particularly if the alleging comes from high up on the DC powertrain food chain). There are a whole set of procedures to be followed meticulously (whether anything has occurred or not) once the process has been set in motion.

And it all costs tax money, and we all pay for it. Even when it is nothing more than a political ploy by people with no actual issues other than their own self-aggrandizement.

I also think that to allow, in fact champion, frivolous accusations of serious crimes on the grounds that you (not you personally, but those who play double standard) just want things to be done correctly won't hold up if, when the accusations ARE proved baseless, the individuals who started the whole chain of character assassination and waste of resources aren't pursued every bit as relentlessly for restitution.

There is a lot of Emily Litella in Loudoun, and while it was cute and funny on Gilda Radner, it is gross abuse of the citizenry from the small group that practices it with gusto.

Anonymous at 7:55 is jumping to another game--divide and conquer. Keeping Dulles North and South at each others' throats is so productive for both areas. Why not spend your effort getting people to the polls for the Broadlands rec center on the ballot? Get people from all over the county to support it? Steve got in ON the ballot, but he can't get it approved by himself.

Do you live in Ashburn, anon 7:55? Will you vote for it, no matter where you live? (unless it is out of county, of course!)

Anonymous 7:55,

I consider the people in Ashburn to be my neighbors as I do the people in Stone Ridge, Kirkpatrick Farms, the Ridings at Blue Springs, Lenah Run, Aldie,etc.

Perhaps you aren't aware of the work that Steve Snow has done on behalf of all residents of Loudoun through the formation and championing of the Loudoun Youth Initiative. Maybe you didn't catch the ribbon cuttings on the roads in Ashburn that Steve held the developers accountable to time at the front end of their homebuilding. You probably didn't see any coverage on the sports fields in the northern part of the district that he pushed to have opened earlier than the proffers called for. Not many people have seen the work he has done to ensure the less fortunate have homes to live in, but he is a champion of planned development in part because it is the ONLY way Loudoun gets any affordable housing for teachers and firefighters and police officers. The paper might not have come to your house on the day that Steve's work to get the Broadlands Rec center on the fall referendum was covered. Maybe you don't plan to visit the new REGIONAL Library that Steve worked with the development community to get in Stone Ridge, but whether you come to our neck of the woods or not, you will benefit from the library because it will have lending capabilities that benefit all of our county libraries.

Barbara Munsey is right, you are trying to claim that only Dulles South gets Steve's attention and it is simply not true and it is not supported by meaningful review of his work for my neighbors in Dulles North and for all of the citizens of Loudoun County.

Dear Mrs. Smith,
"I appreciate your opinion that you don't think Mr. Snow should be allowed to work for a construction company that does work in the County, but you don't get to make that decision. There is not a conflict in working for a commercial developer just because they do work in Loudoun County. You are reaching for a reason to discredit Steve and it's not legit"

I am sorry any "reasonable thinking person" would see and should see a conflict in working for a commercial developer a very serious problem. For Mr. Snow earning money from a commercial developer that does business in his district should be criminal. Virginia law sould and will be changed! It is not illegal at this point in time however Mr. Snow should have the common sence to see the problem with that> Oooops I'm sorry I forgot common sense went out the window long ago!

Dietze is a building contractor.

It should be criminal to work for a "developer"? State law will be changed to make it so?

Gee, Mr. York would go to jail!

In the meantime (emphasis on MEAN), maybe we can get them all to wear a red armband or something, so we'll know who to spit on in the street.

Ya think?

Just like I would expect from Mrs. Munsey turn words around. Yes it sould be criminal to work for a developer "IF YOU ARE ALSO ON THE BOS"! If you did not understand what I said in the prior statment then I will make it easer for you. Roses are red Violets are blue Mr. Snow should not take money from a developer because he is also on the BOS>>>
And yes Mr. York should also. My 10 year old can explain it in more detail if needed.

Let me make this clear the only "task force" work Snow has done for Waxpool is most likely related to the huge Deitz construction site in front of Waxpool.

Great planning there. I sure wish he had visited that area before the County approved more development in there BEFORE the roads were finished. If they ever will be.

If Snow had any honor he would recuse himself from every commercial development project votes. After all, Deitz can bid on any of them, and by the looks of it, they've been winning a good share of them.

It's a blatant, in your face, conflict, and he doesn't give a hoot what people think about that.

10 year old haaa! I think a 4 year old with a crayon would be enough.

Gee, if I were Steve Snow, I would probably start writing my own responses here. But that's just me. I've got a brain tumor; what would I know?

Thats it Barbara, everyone is dogging Snow lets throw Mr. York under the bus also. Any other information you would like to tell us about the crooks I mean the BOS? I still like the top bunk statment....

Steve Snow has proven himself to be an arrogant jerk with no respect for the average citizen. I don't care what his record may be, his contempt for his constituents is reason enough for him to be retired from public service, if we can call what he does public service.

Mrs.Smith
Do you have a shrine to Mr. Snow in your house? Wow.. I mean either you are his mother or you have some serious issues. For being " just a Loudoun resident" you seem to be very upset about the truth? And for Barbara I am sorry I don't know what world you live in "Ya Think"... Well it looks like most of us do Mrs. Munsey do you? Because it looks like you guys are spilling the same garbage the developers told Mr. Snow to say to his constituents?????

Maybe you didn't catch the ribbon cuttings on the roads in Ashburn that Steve held the developers accountable to time at the front end of their homebuilding.

Do you mean the roads the developers needed completed before the construction for the construction? Please tell me of the roads and how they help ease traffic in Ashburn? Sure Mr. Snow did do a few good things. I have talked to Mr. Snow and he is a very charming individual. However the larger story and what you and Barbara seem completely blind to is he works for Dietze. He votes to on contracts for a company he works for. How on gods green earth do you not see a problem with that?
Maybe we should hire a fox to watch the hen house? To think he has no business with Dietze dealing with Loudoun County is to think the moon is made of cheese. Why do you think Dietze hired him or why developers are looking for anyone who works or worked for BOS?

Mr(s)Question,

Supervisor Snow's mother passed away last year. I have already characterized my relationship with Steve. He is a good friend and an honorable man. If you do not consider taking the back of a friend to be a worthwhile cause then I feel sorry for those you would call a friend. I embrace the truth, what you offer as the truth bears no resemblance.I have offered my opinion here. I respect your right to disagree, why can't you offer me that courtesy instead of refering to my comments as "spilling garbage"? You seem very hostile for a person who is "just a resident".

The Supervisors DO NOT vote on contracts with commercial contractors. You would be well served to further research and understand the county governments responsibilities and the roles of the elected officials and the staff before you offer false assertions.

Man, I'm glad I don't live in South Riding...

We seem to be having some minor Emily Litella moments here. They could indeed be a lack of understanding of the process, or it could just be the usual troll blog game of political arson.

In good faith, I'll explain for anon at 10:55 7/13.

If the BoS DID vote on private transactions, then you would be correct, I'd be blind as a bat, and there would be a huge conflict.

However, the only contracts the Board would vote to let would be on a county project. Furthermore, they do not even vote on ALL county project bids: for instance, the School Board votes on who gets to build a specific school when THEY bid out an approved and bonded project.

If the county undertakes a project and would be voting on awarding the bid, Snow has already said he would recuse if Dietze were in consideration. As he should.

When an APPLICANT, a PRIVATE ENTITY, which is sometimes a DEVELOPER, goes through a special exception, modification or rezoning, the Board votes on that. If approved, the APPLICANT, (the PRIVATE ENTITY?) either BUILDS it themselves, SELLS IT to someone who will BUILD it, or puts the project out to BID. BUILDING COMPANIES (like Dietze) submit bids, which the OWNER of the project then chooses from in entering into a PRIVATE CONTRACT with their choice.

The Board is not involved after the part where they vote on whether to allow the land use or not.

In addition, if someone has land that is zoned for office, commercial, industrial, you-name-it and chooses to build a warehouse etc BY RIGHT, the OWNER of the property could bid out the job and enter into a contract, and the use will NEVER EVEN GO THROUGH THE BOARD.

Sorry anon 10:55, but that's the way it is. You are applying public perceptions to private or separate transactions. Even in the case of the school board: the board of supervisors votes to give them a specific amount of money. The school board votes on how to use it.

To get a little more into anonymous troll fire-stomping territory: "Me", how would I have made the mental connection to Mr. York had I NOT understood your remarkable mandate? He is on the Board, AND works for a developer.

Are you advocating double standards for different Board members, along with your suggested policy of legally demonizing only certain businesses to the second and third iteration?

What about lobbying businesses? Do they get a free ride (if you agree with what THEY'RE selling)?

Barbara,

Your explanation of Mr. Snow's Dietz relationship is way to complicated to win anyone's opinion. That's a lot of left turns to come back to the same place. Snow's job is a conflict with the public interest of Loudoun citizens.

I'd like to know how many contracts Dietz has won in Mr. Snow's district? How many have they won in Loudoun?

There absolutely is a value to have Mr. Snow on the Dietz payroll. How else would have Dale Myers sold Dietz on the value of hiring Mr. Snow?

IT'S A CONFLICT! Mr. Snow is privy to inside information that he passes on to his employer. He doesn't have to vote on anything to assist the company that writes his paycheck. All he has to do, or has been doing, is sending juicy pieces of privileged info to Dietz. IT'S A CONFLICT! And Mr. Snow doesn't give a damn. That is sad.

NotSteve (and you certainly are NOT)--I am not trying to win anyone's opinion. I am stating fact.

You and the other political trolls (under your various "names") are showing your massive contempt for the majority of residents by trying to do nothing BUT shape opinion through a constant hammering on a perceived lack of ethics.

Fire!!! Fire!!!!

If you truly believe it is a conflict to work for certain businesses and participate in government, then you need to look at the full spectrum: the preceding board loaded all advisory bodies with members of their own chosen lobbying groups, and personal backers, some of whom received direct disbursement of public funds for private use through board votes, to the tune of millions of dollars.

This is also a matter of record and fact.

It is certainly your privilege to troll with accusations and your (unfortunately legally groundless) opinions on what constitutes a conflict under law. But you are poised on a slippery slope--what businesses will be wearing the red armband next, if you did rule the world?

Barbara,

Obviously! you aren't in this to win anyone's opinion. That's pretty evident based upon your popularity poles.

A "majority" believe all you have ever done is spew YOUR version of the facts.

Oh by the way, yes I was asking for an update on the investigation into your unethical questioning of an applicant that was presenting to the planning commission. If nothing happened that's a shame, as the actions deserved a censure. Anyone who objectively viewed the tapes would have recognized the nature of the offense.

"Man, I'm glad I don't live in South Riding".

AMEN BROTHER! I'll second that. I'll add Landsdowne to that list as well.

On my rant over how much I lump crooked politicians, murders, rapists and child molesters...I should have put in Homeowner's Associations!

The one I moved from in Charlottesville makes the goings on in South Riding or Landsdowne look like nursery school! I DESPISE HOA's and am not fond, AT ALL, of the egotistical, social climbers who sit on their boards as they fufill their pitiful asipirations to higher local/county office. These people are nothing more than a shadier gray of local politico without really governmental power.

Guess no one will be asking ME to run for a board seat! Hah! Having me sit on a board would be a HORROR SHOW! All the little secrets they keep would end up published on the Internet for all to see. I'm laughing my buns off just thinking about how much fun it could be to rip open one of these organizations! Oh well, maybe when I strike it rich and have more time to kill...that just might be really fun! I can see my answer to the question: "why do you want to run for the board?" My answer: because HOA boards are usually filled with self-serving, sniveling, power-hungry people who care more about themselves than their neighbors property rights! If elected, I would give my neighbors free and unfretted access to the entire operations and dealings of the HOA and the developer. No secrets. You'll know exactly down to the penny what they doing with your money! No secrets about what they're paying the General Manager, no secrets about the lobbying efforts in Richmond to take more of your hard earned money away while being able to steal your property if you fail to pay your dues. Since when did HOA's get the right of eminent domain? In Virginia, they have it! Don't believe me, read the POAA!

Yeah, sports fans...I've been around the world with HOA's...I know about their secret lobbying organization and their "professional association of HOA General Managers" who plot and consipre to build little psuedo-governments. Every meet a HOA where you could elect a General Manager like you can a County Supervior? Nope, neither did I! But that General Manager can reek havoc on your life and there almost nothing you can do to remove him/her from that position.

Generally speaking, so far...I love the low key approach that Ashburn Farm takes. These are dues I don't mind paying.

But then again, no one's reported me yet and I've not asked to change some facet of my home's exterior. I reserve the right to a different opinion depending how Ashburn Farm handles these situations. But if the HOA were a PITA, my neighbor's would be biatching. They're not, which tells me the HOA is serving the community in the right balance to the rights of the homeowner.

Oh, that reminds me...hust like this INSANE pseudo-governmental Regional Transportation Authority being able to raise our property taxes 40 cents PER $100 of assessed value! WHERE THE HELL IS THE OUTRAGE OVER THAT? ARE YOU PEOPLE ASLEEP?

Reading about this spins me off into an previously undiscovered level of pissed off, I can barely type the words!

I am sorry you are correct. They do not vote on contracts. However they do vote on rezoning? For example when Dietz wants to add 4000 homes and asks for rezoning who votes on that? Am I correct in seeing a conflict here or did the fox we hired just clean out the hen house? Mrs. Munsey I did say Mr. York is also in the same boat. However he does not seem to have the minions to back him up.

OH! This gets WAY better!

Someone just sent me this! Who sits on this new Transportation, er, Taxing Authority for Loudoun County?

STEVE SNOW AND BRUCE TULLOCH!

Come ON PERP WALK! This gets better by the minute!

Yeah, I know Loudoun is against it...save your bandwidth. Blah, Blah, Blah!

Buffetbassman, actually Scott York represents Loudoun on the NVTA, where he voted for two of the measures passed the other night. Snow and Tulloch are not on it.

To "To Mrs. Smith": Dietze is not a developer, it is a builder. Therefore they do not bring land use applications before the Board. Plus, as they are a commercial builder, the only end products they deliver on someone else's approvals are restaurants, office buildings, etc. Not houses.

Not Steve, call the County Attorney. They did review the tapes.

Next?

Thanks for the correction, Barbara.

Like that makes me feel better. Mr. Conflict of Intrest himself!

Thanks for the correction, Barbara.

Like that makes me feel better. Mr. Conflict of Intrest himself!

The little quirks you find in general comments is very refreshing."Dietze is not a developer, it is a builder" or "as they are a commercial builder, the only end products they deliver on someone else's approvals " REGUARDLESS WHAT NAME IS GIVEN THE END PRODUCT IS THE SAME $$$$$$$ IN DIETZE BACK POCKET!!! GOT ANY THING ELSE "YA THINK"! OR SNAP. I AM DONE WITH THIS MINDLESS TALK WE ARE NOT GOING TO PROVE TO YOU THE TRUTH NO MATER WHAT SPIN YOU AND MRS. SMITH PUT ON COMMENTS. I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO LIKE TEACH MY CHILDREN WHAT NOT TO BECOME.

Barbara has finally convinced me - everyone agrees with her and Snow that we need to build build build our way out of traffic congestion. It's only me and my 1,237 alter egos that believes otherwise.

Buffettbassman-
Sorry, but I kept hearing the theme music to "The Twilight Zone" while reading your rant on HOA's.
My HOA is part of a secret society with yours so watch out!!! In fact, we just met a few days ago at Clyde's!!

-HOA President, I think you can guess what's coming next based on my other post?

Soooo...you're an HOA President. Kudos for having the right stuff.

I know how special you must feel when, in some perverse way, your board sticks it to someone who worked their bottoms off to buy a house in "your" community and they can't change park their car in front of their house or they leave their garbage can on the street too long because their teenage son forgot to bring it in; or when you steal someone's home for not paying the association dues.

That must make you feel soooo special. After all, it's your community. But, as you say, I guess I'm making all of that up.

Oh...and save your breath...I've already "done my time" on a HOA board and countless meaningless committees and sub-committees. I think that HOA President is still in therapy from my tenure. Thinking to myself: "damn shame that scum didn't go to prison". Guess I dropped the ball on that one.

Sooo - El Presidente! When are YOU running for County Supervisor, Dog Catcher, Sewage Treatment plant supervisor?

Buffetbassman, I can't help how you feel, I'm sorry. It does interest me to hear you say "someone just sent" you that grossly incorrect information. Whoever they get their news from is either way off base, or deliberately spreading DISinfo. Anyone interested can go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority website and keep track of the issue.

Good morning LI. So that's what I said? I see. So, then you "must" be saying by-right 10, 20 and 40 acre lots will cure "sprawl"? Well, then I'm going to rely on you to get us all through the condemnation battles when the roads and school sites have to be carved out of the resulting estates.

It is interesting to me that you play that framing game when putting words in my mouth. When I read your site it appears that you and the regulars declare yourselves the majority, and viciously ridicule anyone who challenges that construct in any way, whether they use their own names (increasingly rare) or not.

It also seems to be a zero-sum game to engage with you, but I'll offer some comment, since if you are here at 1 in the morning, you must be looking for something you aren't getting on your own blog.

Your site seems to have turned into little more than a playpen for trolls. Is anyone contributing topics other than yourself? I have seen a few from TC since he went to college, but they get almost zero response.

Does the site actually seek discussion of local or regional issues? Or only circular gossip and complaining among the like-minded of Loudoun?

I sometimes have my own "Twilight Zone" moments when reading some of the stuff that goes on there; it's like I've been given a glimpse into "the Internet constituency" of Howard Dean (or a political marketing venture by someone who believes in it), and I've got to tell you, it isn't pretty.

Nice to hear from you!

Don't take my word for it:

http://loan.yahoo.com/m/primer13.html

10 Things a Homeowners Association Won't Tell You

1. "We Can't Wait to Get Our Hands on Your Money -- Or Even Your Home."
A gardening violation. That's what landed Jeffrey DeMarco in hot water with his Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., homeowners association a few years ago: He planted too many roses on his four-acre property. Peeved, the association fined him monthly and sat back as the bills mounted. Then it placed a lien on his property and threatened to foreclose, according to DeMarco.
He took the board to court, but lost on the grounds that he had violated the association's architectural design rules. (In addition to planting roses, he also had regraded the site.) In the end, he got stuck with the association's $70,000 legal bill and lost his home to the bank. "Mr. DeMarco came into the community and wanted to step outside the rules," says Walt Ekard, the association manager. "That's a detriment to everyone."

Think it couldn't happen to you? Think again. Many people who belong to homeowners associations do not understand just how much power these groups have over them -- until they miss a payment or otherwise run afoul of the board. Fall a single day behind in paying your monthly dues, for instance, and the association may slap you with a fine. Fall 90 days behind and it may place a lien on your home and threaten to foreclose unless you pay up immediately. And because you often hand over the right of property trustee to the association when you agree to the by-laws, in some cases "you don't even get to go to court," says Evan McKenzie, a lawyer turned political science professor in Chicago and the author of Privatopia: Homeowner Associations and the Rise of Residential Private Government.

Your best defense, if you can afford it: paying what the association says you owe, then arguing. Most associations work on a "balance forward" accounting system, in which your payments go toward the outstanding balance. By delaying, you'll just accumulate more late fees.

2. "We're More Secretive Than the CIA."
Like corporate boards, which have a fiduciary responsibility to make disclosures to shareholders, a homeowners association board is supposed to be upfront with its members. But all too often, boards play things close to the vest. "The board will say everything is confidential and they can't tell you anything," says Willowdean Vance, president of the American Homeowner Association, a consumer group based in Lake Forest, Calif. "They're just on a power trip and it's absolutely deceitful."

Some boards can be impossibly stubborn about disclosure. When a few members of the Columbia Foundation, a Maryland homeowners association, tried to gather some information, another faction of the board was so miffed at not being consulted first, that they went so far as to try and impose a rule that would have required members to get permission from the entire board before asking an outside agency for information. Larry Holzman, an attorney with Ochs, Holzman and Rosen, a firm specializing in homeowners litigation, says the rule was voted down only after a major publicity campaign put forth by the Maryland Homeowners Association.

Homeowners who feel shut out should first write a letter to the board formally requesting access to the records, suggests Debra Bass, a spokeswoman for the Community Associations Institute. If the board is still mum, "ask for a letter from the association attorney that explains why you can't see the records," she adds. And if you still aren't satisfied with the board's response, move somewhere else, or hire a lawyer and sue. "The entire budget should be open and available to every homeowner," says Bass. "It should not be kept a secret."

3. "When in Doubt, We Sue."
Board members will tell you that the last thing they want is to go to court. But it happens all the time. Experts estimate that in California, 75% of the homeowners associations are embroiled in a legal tangle of some kind. Chicago attorney Mark Pearlstein, who represents associations, figures that 60% of all condo boards and homeowners associations in Illinois are involved in some kind of legal suit.

It's partly a reflection of our increasingly litigious society. But that's not the only reason. "The association lawyers tell the board to enforce every rule," says author Evan McKenzie. "They say, 'If you make one exception, the whole neighborhood falls into chaos.' But who gets paid every time you take an owner to court?"

The lawyers, of course. But the litigation option can be hard for board members to resist. For instance, Margurette Nicholson was board president in 1991 when her association in Portola Hills, Calif., took a neighbor to court for installing a satellite dish in his backyard. "Nobody wanted to take this thing to court," says Nicholson. "But one of the homeowners was a lawyer and she was friends with the association's lawyer. They both campaigned for it. They both said we would win. I knew we wouldn't." Indeed, the owner's lawyer argued that the rule infringed on his client's First Amendment rights and he won. The board's legal fees: more than $40,000.

4. "You Won't Be Able to Sell When You Want."
Besides being expensive, lawsuits often mean that you won't be able to sell your home when the time comes to move. "Would you want to go out and buy a property that was in the middle of a lawsuit?" asks Oliver Burford, executive director of the Executive Council of Homeowners, a trade group for California associations. "I wouldn't."

Naturally, banks don't like lending money for homes on which lawsuits are pending, either. But there are exceptions. "There will always be some lenders who are willing to lend you the money," says Larry Holzman, a Maryland attorney. "The problem is you will not be able to get the same rates set up because banks have very strict lending criteria." If you find out a condo you're interested in is embroiled in litigation, use that information to negotiate a lower price, Holzman advises. If you're the seller of such a property, you'd better not hold out for top dollar.

5. "We're Poorer Than We Look."
Every association has a reserve fund. It's like a savings account, and it's meant to be tapped when things go wrong or the property falls into disrepair. But often these funds are in terrible shape themselves.

Ron Williams, an engineer with R.J. Moore, a consulting company that specializes in reserve accounting, once worked with a Northern Virginia condominium that had a paltry $100,000 set aside. "Closer to $1.25 million would have been considered healthy," says Williams. When power-plant equipment gave out in early 1994, the association didn't have the $400,000 needed to replace it. The solution: A $2,400 special assessment to each of the 170 unit owners and a 22% increase in monthly dues.

When it comes to checking up on a reserve fund, there are two good rules of thumb. First, about 20% to 25% of your dues should go toward the reserve fund, says Robert Nordlund, president of Association Reserves, a California company that specializes in reserve accounting. Second, there should be a long-term schedule for the reserve fund in the annual budget, including a projection of upcoming expenses for each common-area item: elevator repairs, painting, pool maintenance and so on. Reserve accountants suggest that the account should contain no less than 70% of the projected reserve budget. If the account is 30% funded or less, you can expect to be hit with some big assessments down the road.

6. "We Can Make Up the Rules as We Go Along."
By law, a majority of the homeowners in an association have to approve any change in the bylaws. But many boards sidestep this by simply changing their house rules, which are as binding as bylaws but can usually be rewritten without asking all the homeowners. "Even if you were to be given the rules today, they're probably already out of date because [boards are] constantly making changes to the rules at whim," says Elizabeth McMahon, a co-founder of the American Homeowners' Resource Center, a San Juan Capistrano, Calif., consumer group. "And they couldn't care less if you don't like them."

At the Reston (Va.) Homeowners Association, for instance, only residents who used the swimming pools and tennis courts had to pay for their upkeep. But then in 1990, the board decided everyone ought to chip in, and it polled members. More than 70% of those who voted opposed the new rule, but it didn't matter. In the end, the board pushed it through anyway, and fees climbed 26%. "They disregarded the will of the people," says Thierry Gaudin, a Reston homeowner, "and that was wrong."

It may be wrong, but it's the board's right. Period. "Bottom line, the board has to have the right to run the show," says attorney Benny Kass, who represents associations. About all you can do is keep up to speed on any changes the board makes in the rules, and if you don't like them, complain. The sooner you raise a fuss, the better: Rules that have been around for a while tend to be the hardest to change.

7. "We Don't Want You at Our Meetings."
Monthly meetings are open to all homeowners. At least in theory. "A lot of times, however, meetings are moved at the last minute to limit the questions from homeowners or to keep information from them," says Willowdean Vance, president of the American Homeowner Association, a consumer group based in Lake Forest, Calif., which has fielded a number of complaints from homeowners who were shut out of meetings.

Even when you can attend, the board may not acknowledge you. "Board members won't come out and say that they don't want you at their meetings," says Vicki Satern, co-founder of Common Ownership Alliance, a Washington, D.C., consumer group. "But basically, that's what their goal is."

She knows from firsthand experience. The board at her Virginia vacation home once decided to hire a new management company. The problem: "They cost double the money," says Satern. "They wanted 6% of refurbishing contracts, 10% on engineering contracts, plus we had to buy their copyrighted software and the equipment to use it."

Outraged, Satern raised her hand at a board meeting. "They ignored me," she says. "Finally, I just spoke up. They yelled at me and said I was not allowed to speak." The new management company was hired.

"When you come to a board meeting," says B. William Smink, the association's attorney, "you can sit, you can observe, but you cannot speak because the board is there to exercise its business judgment. And that's in compliance with national and state community-association laws." Satern would have done better, according to Smink, if she had contacted the board members individually before or after the meeting.

Other options for homeowners who feel ignored: "Put your complaint in writing," says attorney Michael Nagle, who represents associations. "That's hard to ignore." If that gets you nowhere, petition other homeowners and call a special meeting to discuss the issue or to remove some of the board members. "And if it's really bad, take the board to court," suggests Nagle.

8. "We're in Over Our Heads."
Most board members are volunteers, and they generally get their training on the job. Sometimes their inexperience means they bungle the bookkeeping, resulting in higher fees or assessments. Sometimes they fail to do their homework on outside contractors, meaning that you get shoddy workmanship in your common areas. And sometimes, as Mary Lindsey knows all too well, they can cause much bigger problems.

While involved in a divorce in 1992, the Pomona, Calif., family therapist fell behind in her monthly dues. Back dues, late fees and interest quickly mushroomed, so Lindsey tried to work out a payment plan with the board and a credit-counseling service. But they couldn't agree on exactly how much was owed. "I thought I owed them less than $800," says Lindsey. "They said it was over $1,000." The dispute wound up in court as the association threatened to foreclose on her home.

In the end, it turned out that Lindsey was right about the money she owed. The board had goofed. But the association won its lawsuit anyway. The judge ruled that she was wrong not to make back payments while the matter was in dispute. To her dismay, Lindsey was left with a $22,000 bill for the association's legal costs, late fees and interest.

9. "We Work for Nothing but Get Compensated in Other Ways."
Being on the board is a thankless job, board members will tell you. That's probably true much of the time. But strictly speaking, it's not always so. The thanks they often get may surprise you.

Special favors and perks for board members are fairly common. The potential for abuse is inherent in the way these things are organized. The board members give themselves and their friends privileges and they never get hassled. The worst-case scenario: The board retains a contractor and board members get kickbacks.

"This goes on, no question," says Virginia real estate attorney Fredrick H. Goldbecker. "It's usually done legally, so it's bulletproof, but that doesn't make it right." When the roof needs repairing, for example, "the board says the work needs to be done a certain way, and the only roofer in town who can do it that way is related to a board member," Goldbecker says. Because many associations have no formal system of checks and balances, homeowners often have no idea how their boards make decisions about contractors. About all you can do is keep a careful eye on the board. Big expenditures, no matter how mundane, are worth looking into.

10. "We're Incredibly Petty."
In many asso