AMLO Unveils His Ammo

For nearly a week, Andrés Manuel López Obrador has been hinting and huffing and puffing about electoral fraud in his failed bid to become the next president of Mexico. Now, he is finally coming forward with the detailed accusations -- and a promise of more mass rallies if conservative Felipe Calderón is annointed without a thorough airing of López Obrador's complaints.

Ceci Connolly

Shortly before midnight Monday, lawyers for the left-leaning former mayor submitted a formal challenge of nearly 900 pages and called on Mexico's electoral tribunal (similar to the Supreme Court) to demand a recount of every single one of the 41 million votes cast July 2.

If that doesn't happen, Mexico could see an "insurrection," according to one of López Obrador's top aides.

"The warning by Gerardo Fernandez Noroña, the campaign's chief spokesman, was the most explicit high-level threat that the challenger's struggle to overturn his razor-thin defeat could erupt in civil disobedience and violence," reports the Los Angeles Times, which had the benefit of late deadlines. "Fernandez said that if the seven-judge Federal Electoral Tribunal upheld the result without a full recount and allowed Calderón to take office, "we are not going to let him govern."

The seven judges on the tribunal, or "high court," have never faced a challenge in a presidential contest. But the well-respected body has intervened on the lower level. In a May speech at CSIS, Jesús Orozco-Henríquez provided a comprehensive history of the tribunal and its authority.

"The High Court is empowered to annul federal, state or municipal elections whenever serious and proved irregularities can be considered to play a significant role to determine the election's result," he said. "From 1996 there has been more than 59,000 public (federal, state and local) posts elected in Mexico. The Electoral Court has used such a constitutional power to annul 17 elections, including a couple of congressional elections in 2003."

Although the tribunal's work is usually pro forma, this time around, the group of judges has enormous power.

"Martín Ramírez, a spokesman for the electoral tribunal, said the court could not ratify the official tally and recognize Mr. Calderón as president-elect until it had ruled on all of Mr. López Obrador's legal challenges. By law the court must certify a new president by Sept. 6."

In the meantime, the federal election commission is defending its work in overseeing the voting and counting.

"In a series of press conferences earlier this week, PRD officials such as Jesús Ortega and Manuel Camacho Solís have charged that the PREP results - which showed Calderón on top throughout Sunday night and Monday as the tally was compiled - were "statistically impossible." In such a close race, they argued, it would be impossible for the two candidates not to leapfrog each other for the lead during the count," according to the Miami Herald's Mexico edition. IFE information coordinator Rene "Miranda shrugged off the allegations, saying the PREP was used objectively and impartially to "reflect the reality of the country."

The Real Action

If Mexico's young democracy follows the process laid out in its laws, this could make for pretty dry reading. But López Obrador, known in the city by his initials, is keeping things very interesting with a series of large-scale rallies.

On Saturday, somewhere between 125,000 and 300,000 supporters swarmed Mexico City's downtown square to cheer on López Obrador. (Police put the crowd size at 280,000; media estimates have been all over the map.)

The sheer numbers were impressive, but what was most striking was the emotional outpouring, written on the signs and faces of average Mexicans, some of whom traveled an entire day by bus to attend. They braved a hot midday sun, followed by a chilly late afternoon rain. And many said they would return -- all they required was the "word" from AMLO.

"The people are very mad," Mario Balan told Campaign Conexión. "If we don't get a solution there's going to be another revolution. We're just waiting for the word from López Obrador." The 22-year-old teacher rode 14 hours from López Obrador's home state of Tabasco to attend the demonstration.

Having lived in Mexico City while López Obrador was mayor, Balan said he had confidence that López Obrador did not "steal anything.

"This is the only man who can change Mexico. He's coming from a poor family and he has passion for Mexico," said Balan.

At times, the Zocalo resembled a very crowded, very colorful festival, complete with fresh tacos, tarot card readers, T-shirt hawkers and incense-bearing mystics chasing away bad spirits. Children frolicked in the dirty streets or sat atop their fathers' shoulders. The more seasoned demonstrators arrived with portable folding chairs, umbrellas and water. Enormous speakers blared a special López Obrador ditty sung to the tune of "Love is in the Air." There was even a trojan horse, about 25 feet tall, made from wooden crates.

Though their anger and frustration was palpable -- many signs were spiced with profanity -- there was little hint of possible violence. After waiting hours for López Obrador to arrive, the crowd cheered him on with chants of "Presidente," "you are not alone" and "vote by vote" in reference to his demand that all 41 million ballots be recounted.

The Boston Globe's Indira A.R. Lakshmanan highlights López Obrador's appeal with the downtrodden.

"Addressing the throng, López Obrador denounced "an economic and political power group that is used to winning at any cost without any scruples. The country doesn't matter to them, and even less the suffering of the majority of Mexican people," she wrote after the Saturday rally.

"His attack on class divisions struck an emotional chord with his followers, some of whom cried as they pressed against metal barricades to cheer their candidate. "They stole our votes, and I feel so impotent," said a weeping Norma Zambrano Falcón, 31, a housewife. Zambrano said López Obrador helped her family in ways no politician ever had when he was mayor, extending low-interest home loans to two sisters, high school scholarships to three nephews, and a pension to her elderly father.

For his part, López Obrador castigated "powerful interests" in Mexico that he said were trying to deny the country's poor the freedoms they deserve. And, as he always does, he promised to not "betray" the people.

Although he also pledged that his efforts would be peaceful, he hardly suggested he will go quietly. "The evaluation of this election is just beginning," he told the crowd. "We are going to defend our victory."

Though the legal challenge appears difficult for López Obrador to pull off, many analysts speculate that these mass demonstrations could have an impact on both public opinion and the inklings of the court. To keep up the pressure, he has asked supporters to resume marching Wednesday from every corner of this nation of 103 million. The demonstrations will culminate with another rally in the Zocalo, believed to be the world's second or largest public square (Red Square in Moscow is Number 1, but there's debate whether Tiananmen Square in Beijing or El Zocalo is second.)

Meanwhile, Across Town

Calderón looked to be practicing the role he claims is his fair and square. At a briefing for the international press, Calderón appeared ready to start rolling out some policy announcements. Campaign Conexión was a briefly distracted by the fact he was standing on a box, a la Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) the Harvard-trained Calderón pontificated on subjects such as U.S. immigration, relations with Venezuela and Asian trade.

One can hardly blame Calderón for the role-playing. For starters, plenty of actual heads of state, including Presidents Bush and Fox, have been giving Calderón big wet kisses. (Fox, who was accused of promoting Calderón during the campaign, toned it down Monday, saying he'll wait for the Tribunal to do its work.)

What was remarkable at last Friday's news conference, however, was that most of the 100 or so reporters seated in the cavernous ballroom went along. Very few journalists even tried to pin him down on that little matter of an electoral challenge. (In fairness to the U.S. press corps, they only got in a few questions, prompting some chatter that the Calderón camp designed it that way.)

Academics, editorial writers and even some folks who can't vote in Mexican elections are weighing in on how the young democracy is holding up in the midst of such scrutiny.

"What happened on Sunday is a far cry from those bad old days," writes the Miami Herald's Mexico edition. "The IFE is one of Mexico´s best-functioning institutions, and although it has been widely criticized for aspects of how it has handled this election, there have been no credible allegations of organized widespread fraud. But there are enough problems to warrant a complete recount."

Ilan Stavans, professor of Latin American and Latino Culture at Amherst College, is sounding despondent.

"The loser is the country as a whole," he writes in the Boston Globe. "A fracture the size of the Sonoran Desert has become evident between northern and southern Mexican states, between the rich and the poor, between those looking at the United States as a role model and those preferring to see Mexico as an integral part of Latin America. Mexico's economy has expanded its base but more than a third of the population lives in poverty."

A New Map

For political scientists, there's much to chew over in the results -- no matter who is eventually declared the victor. Most noticeable is the "big divide" in the country, similar to the split in the United States.

"The new map depicts an industrialized north, where business ties to the United States have played an enormous role in the rise of the right-leaning, conservative party, and a more agricultural south that is a hotbed of leftist discontent and anti-globalization sentiment," writes James McKinley in the New York Times. "Political scientists say this has a little to do with history and a lot to do with economics. For starters, the benefits of the 1994 free trade agreement with the United States and Canada have never trickled down to southern states like Chiapas, Oaxaca and Guerrero. While the economy in the north has grown at 4.5 percent a year, the southern states have barely grown 1 percent each year. They remain largely agricultural and poor, with big indigenous populations."

By washingtonpost.com |  July 11, 2006; 9:26 AM ET  | Category:  Campaign Conexión
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llan Stavans completely misses the point in his analysis. AMLO spent SIX years running for president and has more name recognition than any recent politician in Mexico, yet he lost, and in a country with millions and millions of poor. The real story is that his lust for power, character defects and blinding egotism convinced many voters on the LEFT to vote against him. He should have easily won the election by a HUGE margin. Character, however, matters when selecting leadership--sometimes MORE than policies and IDEOLOGY (think Bush, here). Mexico needs a leftist government, but the left in Mexico needs a candidate that respects public institutions and who puts the needs of the people before his or her own hunger for power. If the left can't accept AMLO's defeat, it's because the left, like so many on the right, is so blinded by its ideology that it can't differentiate "lust" from a true concern for the well-being of others. Adios, AMLO. This should be your last act. Largate!

Posted by: Mark Browne | July 11, 2006 12:55 PM

Perhaps for the country's sake, they should do a recount simply because the vote was so close and they might want to consider a run-off election between the top two finishers in the future. However, the threats of violence suggests AMLO simply can't accept the fact that plurality of Mexican voters may not have favored him. That isn't the mark of a leader with democratic credentials.

Posted by: RC | July 11, 2006 01:16 PM

Viktor Yushchenko also repeated to the Ukrainian people that he would never accept a result in the 2004 presidential elections that has him defeated. Despite this, not one mainstream Western commentator or pundit (that is outside of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group) has challenged his so-called democratic credentials.

The most important of his plans is to join NATO and become an American satellite. This option is overwhelmingly opposed in the Ukraine. Even now, with his presidential opponent, Viktor Yanukovich, poised to become prime minister, he demands that Yanukovich vow to help bring Ukraine into NATO.

In Mexico, there's also a situation where an overwhelmingly unpopular project is being forced down the throats of the people. This is the project of the so-called Washington Consensus that is forcing people off their land and out of their workplaces and to the United States. This project's course was consolidated by the fraud of 1988. Now, with a presidential candidate with plans to derail this project, do you really believe they would let him win? Just as the US and its allies in the Ukraine was to get Ukraine to have pro-NATO leaders by hook or by crook, to get Ukraine into NATO, the US and its allies in Mexico are trying to maintain this unpopular Washington Consensus there, again by hook or by crook. So whose democratic credentials ought to be challenged? Those who challenge AMLO's and embrace Yushchenko's know who they are serving.

Posted by: R | July 11, 2006 01:30 PM

The comparison of the Mexican election with the Ukrainian election is timely. Westerners hailed Yushchenko's refusal to accept defeat, but clamor against Obrador for doing the same thing. Mexico has corrupt institutions. Those who cannot even fathom the possibility of widespread vote fraud there are liars, or are fooling themselves.

Posted by: D. Diebel | July 11, 2006 02:02 PM

It's amazing that some people still believe in AMLO, everybody knows that he is crazy about power, behaving erratically and out of control, all this so called "Fraud proofs" are being fabricated by the PRD itself, it's popular knowing they are going to say and make anything to invalidate the elections, 35% of fanatical voters can't be speaking for all Mexico.

Posted by: Charles R. | July 11, 2006 02:05 PM

I see the usual populist conspiracy theories are being trotted out. Mexico was no panacea prior to the "Washington consensus" nor has the current government departed much from the statist model. The oil and telephone inustries remain inefficient state-owned behemoths. People have been leaving agriculture for decades and immigration to the U.S. didn't just start in the last 10 years.

There isn't a socialist utopia anywhere, nor was AMLO going to create one in Mexico.

"The comparison of the Mexican election with the Ukrainian election is timely."

No it isn't. In the Ukraine both pre-election and exit polls showed Yushchenko winning easily. The polls in Mexico showed a race within the margin of error.

Posted by: RC | July 11, 2006 02:15 PM

Response to R:

I don't know where you live. But, you can not compare Mexico to the Ukraine or 2006 to 1988. Having lived the 1988 fraud and having participated in the 2000 elections as a balloting place official, I can tell you there is no point of comparison between either of the two cases that you mentioned. The opposition parties in Mexico, including the PRD, helped to design the electoral system of checks and balances that we currently have. The PRD is within their right, according to Mexican law, to challenge the results in the balloting places where they can document supposed irregularities. What seems unusual is the fact that they did not challenge the results the day of the election. If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places. The presidents of the balloting places are obligated by law to permit this. Curiously, the only districts that the PRD are challenging are the ones where their candidate lost by a wide margin. Our system is not perfect. But, it is a lot better than most. If AMLO said on several occasions that he would respect the determination of the IFE, why doesn't he? Is it because he didn't win? By the way, I'm one of more than 27 million Mexicans that didn't vote for him and our votes are just as important.

Posted by: TG | July 11, 2006 02:19 PM

The Mexican left should drop this thing before it gets out of hand. They know that either AMLO lost outright or came so close that a few votes diverted the other way (as he alleges) put Calderon on top. Either way, his appeal to "the people" did not work. He could not form a consensus government with this little support. Calderon, however, can appeal to the pragmatists in the PRI and smaller parties to move forward.

Posted by: Goyo | July 11, 2006 02:27 PM

If AMLO manages to claw his way into power by using his mob forces to bring Mexico to a standstill, what next? Perhaps he can get the same mob to help him change the constituition to make him president for life. He has, and will continue to do, anything for his own personel gain.

Posted by: PeterN | July 11, 2006 02:51 PM

The Ukraine connection keeps popping up in these comments, presumably by the same one or two people with some ax to grind.

Posted by: Tom T. | July 11, 2006 03:02 PM

It is true Mr Lopez has the right to contest the results of the presidential election, he also has a right to demonstrate peacefully, he however cannot ask of the authorities to do things that are forbideen by law and then threaten with revolution if they dont do as he says.

The votes have already been counted once, all of them on election day, by randomly seleted citizens in presence of his party´s representatives, then, where there was doubt, the ballots were counted one by one again three days after.

the results keep coming out the same

Lopez has to commit to respecting the courts decision. There has to be an end line to it

To fully understand the days Mexico is living, you have to go to other places in the country, Mexico City is a stronghold of Lopez, he has a core of fanatic followers that will show up anytime to do anything, many others in Mexico City may think they won because they and everyone the know voted for him, but it will be the other way around in most cities around the country.

Lopez told many people what they wanted to hear, and he may be right in some things, his oponent Mr Calderon convinced roughly a quarter of a million more people though, enough in this democracy to be the new president

it is understandable that Mr Lopez followers are sad, they almost won, but they did not, and the people that voted for Mr Calderon have a right for their votes to be respected too.

Posted by: GR | July 11, 2006 03:17 PM

"everybody knows that he (AMLO) is crazy about power, behaving erratically and out of control..."

Sorry, but is following the law an erratic behaviour? Can you please substantiante your allegations?

"What seems unusual is the fact that they did not challenge the results the day of the election..."

What is unusual about that? The LAW is clear regarding the suitable deadlines? They took their time in putting together the documentation. What is wrong with that?

"If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places...."

This comes time and again. Not every balloting station had a PRD representative. They couldn't note what they didn't witness.

"Curiously, the only districts that the PRD are challenging are the ones where their candidate lost by a wide margin..."

What is curious about that? The basic request to the court is to recount each and every vote. If that doesn't happen, a partial recount may give advantage to AMLO. The purpose of an election is to win it, isn't it? If this happens within the margins of the law, what's the issue?

Finally, if PAN believes that they won, fair and square, why are they contesting the election too? Is it OK for them to do it, but not for the PRD? Isn't that a double standard?

Histerics and misinformation only fuel passion. If you defame or insult somebody, don't expect a sweet smile in return.


Posted by: pasilla | July 11, 2006 03:33 PM

Institutions in Mexico are bankrupt, absolutely broken. The electoral fraud started cooking when Ugalde was appointed to head the IFE. There's no way on earth that anyone the slightest familiar with Mexico, Mexicans and the Mexican political system can claim with a straight face that there were no irregularities at the polls level. That's the way electoral frauds are cooked in Mexico. You control certain polls in certain districts and you can sit down and wait for being annointed the next one. The Republicans learned from the PRI very well, just look at Ohio in 2004 and at Florida in 2000. God Bless America!!

Posted by: El Blind Ve | July 11, 2006 03:54 PM

"There's no way on earth that anyone the slightest familiar with Mexico, Mexicans and the Mexican political system can claim with a straight face that there were no irregularities at the polls level"

OF COURSE there were irregularities. With 130,000 plus polling places, it would be a miracle if there were not. But, not one shred of proof has been presented that there were SYSTEMATIC irregularities in favor of one party (the PAN). Only God knows what the PRI did in places like rural Oaxaca, ditto the PAN, and we have evidence of PRD trading of votes for food in Torreon. If the PRD had real evidence of systematic fraud, not discredited videos of six votes being moved in front of the PRD representative, why is it not being presented? Because, in all likelyhood, it does not exist.

Can Pasilla or some other perredista inform the rest of us (who are not "intelligentsia", so please use easy words) what it will take to satisify AMLO and end this. In other words, will he accept it if the courts rule against him. This is an easy question, yes or no? Will he accept the results of a manual recount, if he gets it, and it shows that he loses? Yes or no? If the answer is no, then what, exactly, does he want? And whose fault will the ensuing problems be?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 11, 2006 04:12 PM

Where's Jimmy Carter when we really need him? He was certainly on hand when Chavez was anointed in a far more suspect process.

Posted by: hereby | July 11, 2006 04:37 PM

Mr. Pasilla,

You state "If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places...."

This comes time and again. Not every balloting station had a PRD representative. They couldn't note what they didn't witness.

The balloting station where the president of the station found several ballots for deputies in the presidential urn did have a PRD representative present who consented and witnessed that the ballots were put into the correct urn. Why is it then that this is presented as proof of stuffing of urns? AMLO's latest version is that his party presenatives were bribed to look the other way. Now we find that even his own people are conspiring against him.

Posted by: TG | July 11, 2006 04:53 PM

Pasilla:

I never said that AMLO is crazy. I just want him to prove what he claims. We all know that the PRI, PAN+Verde, PRD+PT+Convergencia, PANAL and to a lesser degree Alianza put their machines to work during the elections. But, that is Mexican politics. That is why everybody watches everybody else at the balloting stations. The truth is that when we have a large turnout, for whatever reason, the actual tendencies are clearer.

Posted by: TG | July 11, 2006 05:12 PM

Correction:

I wrote Alianza. It should read Alternativa.

Posted by: TG | July 11, 2006 05:19 PM

We are getting a bit tired of Mr. Obrador. He thinks he is still in the campaign. I am afraid he is calling or playing to the radicals of the country, which are a minority. Because nobody believes that joke about the "Asamblea Informativa" it is very easy for PAN or PRI to do exactly the same and PAN has got more money to fill the whole Zocalo 20 times with "acarreados" (poor peasents brought in large trucks who don't have any idea about the meeting but they get paid 100 pesos to assist). We, the rest of the people, the people who voted and who go to work and pay our taxes and behave as good citizens, we are getting tired of this game Mr. Obrador is playing.
All the campaign he diffamated everyone around, yesterday he presented a video, allegedly show ballot fraud, as it turned out, the same PRD representative shown in the video confirmed that they were putting the ballots correctly in the right box and they did it in representation of all party representatives and officials and with the proper legal justification from the IFE which was confirme by the same IFE later, and today, when questioned about this false video accussations he was trying to do, Mr. Obrador accussed his own PRD representative of having been bought by the opposition, that they paid her some money to let them so something bad with the ballots (even though there were very little ballots there). Not only he did not thank his poor representative who spent more than 12 hours that Sunday to defend the PRD votes but now he accusses the poor lady. It is disgusting!!

Posted by: Jose Flores | July 11, 2006 05:35 PM

As a mexican, I did my civic duty, I voted. Over one million people, regular citizens where asked to count the votes during this past election. They all counted the votes, then if they agreed with the results, the all signed an electoral form. All partys have copies of this forms, they can do their own numbers... and they all conclude the same thing, Calderon won, the only anomaly, as AMLO calls it, is that he is not the elected president. He says that he is in favor of the mexican people, and that he is a democrat, this means, that if he lost even if it is by only one vote, he lost. The reality is that not all citizens want him for president, and the evidence is that he only got about 35% of the votes, that means, if we do the math, that the other 65% of the population voted against him. While Calderon is talking about uniting the congress, AMLO is dividing the people, causing the his few (and by few I mean less than 35% of the population) to feel hatred towards the rest of the population. Is this what mexicans want for our president? the answer is no.... the rich are not guilty for the poor, the rich are most of the time rich, beacuse they are hard working people, and they do not go accusing everybody else for their problems. No, the take action. If AMLO, is a follower to the left philosophy, then he should understand than the way for improving the lives of the poor is not by taking money form the rich, and giving it to the poor, but by improving our country's economy, so we can have more oportunity for economic growth, and as a result have an increase in jobs. AMLO follows only his own rules, he has always believed that there is a conspiracy behind him. When we was mayor for Mexico City, over one million people walked the streets, in a quiet manifastation, asking for a safer city, his response was that they were only there because there was a conspiracy behind him. But as days pass, fewer people support him, and many if they were asked to vote again, they would vote for Calderon, only so that this man, who calls himself a "rayito de esperanza" never becomes the next Mexican president.

Posted by: AGCM | July 11, 2006 06:30 PM

Is very blind from you try to read about the mexican map bettwen the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their sistem model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from mexico can be America and the south it dosen matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the jop that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know theres no really a big diference bettwen the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the diference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the mexicans are waiting to leaft to be indians and became a west citizen then you dont understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont undestand why theres another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be verIs very blind from you try to read about the Mexican map between the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their system model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from Mexico can be America and the south it doesn matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the job that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know there's no really a big difference between the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the difference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the Mexicans are waiting to left to be Indians and became a west citizen then you don't understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The Indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont understand why there's another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be very boring. Don't you think?y borring. Dont you think?

Posted by: About your last comments Connolly | July 11, 2006 07:02 PM

Is very blind from you try to read about the Mexican map between the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their system model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from Mexico can be America and the south it doesn matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the job that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know there's no really a big difference between the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the difference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the Mexicans are waiting to left to be Indians and became a west citizen then you don't understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The Indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont understand why there's another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be very boring. Don't you think?

Posted by: Map | July 11, 2006 07:03 PM

I'm sure that Ceci Connolly doesn't need defenders. However, it doesn't hurt if we all read carefully, before blustering. She properly atributtes the quote that somebody disliked (about Mexico's North-South divide) to James McKinley of the New York Times...

Posted by: pasilla | July 11, 2006 07:26 PM

Castillo Peraza, Manuel Clouthier, Felipe Calderon and all the people in the PAN have got a long time fighting the same thugs, although now they wear a different shirt, we have been here before. The same criminals like Manuel Camacho Solis (sometimes his adversaries died of a shot in the head like Leonaldo Colosio, but we have never learned why)Muñoz Ledo, Monreal, Leonel Cota, Marcelos Ebrad, etc. All these people have one thing in common, when they were in the PRI, their enemy was always the PAN, and now in the PRD, the same thing again. But the situation has turned around, now they don't have all the repressive state they used to enjoy, the only power left for Camacho now is with the top-less girls he is famous for hiring in his parties. That's all.
And it hurts them, because they thought they had this one in their pocket already. Big blunt, many a times they laughed at him, and all the campaign, for all these months, the prd mediocre editorials and pseudo-intellectuals at La Jornada laughed and made fun of how shorty and simple Mr. Calderon is. Now they don't laugh so much anymore, now they do not picture him as the loser in the race. Their mood is down. I saw Julio Hernandez Lopez, Denise Dresser, Raymundo riva-palacios and another unknown mediocre writer wannabe at Victor's Trujillo "el cristal con que se mira" on the next day after the elections. What happened, it was like a funeral, all these months and just days before the elections these biased analists had told us reteadly that AMLO was the winner. And then they looked so sad, their faces, their eyes clearly showing they had not slept all night looking at the PREP. I felt pity for them.
Don't get any illusions my friend, amlo lost the battle and Felipe beat them up real good. These impugnation only comes to show how sick and egomaniac this fellow is I think he will need a psicologist when this whole thing is over. Perhaps Mr.Roberto Gonzales from Banamex might give him a little vacation to his resort in the Riviera Maya. Bye amlo. It was good while it lasted.

Posted by: Jose Flores | July 11, 2006 07:48 PM

David Crowe, et al, here come the individual polling place counts!


Estarán en su página de Internet
Publicará IFE total de cómputos en casillas

MÉXICO, D.F.(SUN)

En las próximas horas, el Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE) publicará en su página de Internet todos los cómputos distritales y de entidad federativa, que van del concentrado nacional hasta cada una de las más de 130 mil casillas instaladas el 2 de julio.

La publicación pretende que la ciudadanía pueda corroborar que los resultados colocados en el exterior de cada casilla son los mismos que fueron capturados y, una vez sumados, constituyen los resultados finales de la elección.

El director ejecutivo de Capacitación Electoral y Educación Cívica del IFE, Hugo Concha, señaló lo anterior al fijar esta tarde la postura del organismo electoral sobre información difundida alrededor del proceso.
Nota Publicada: 11/7/2006 17:11 pm

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 11, 2006 08:14 PM

As a Mexican, I believe we need a totally new government in Mexico. I neither want PRD or PAN in power. I want somebody to can bring Mexican out of poverty. I grew up during PRI rule and my family suffured greatly, unemployment, lack of food, and a good education.

Posted by: Tomas | July 11, 2006 08:18 PM

Felipe Calderon won. AMLO lost. The TRIFE is a mere tramit.
So. What's for dinner?

Posted by: Jose Flores | July 11, 2006 08:29 PM

Fantastic how some people are DEMANDING proof from Obrador, well my right wing friends, take a chill pill, they have already presented a 900 page report, so before you jump to defend your pro rich Calderon, I suggest you wait just a little longer to see what is shaping up to be a rather sophisticated scam performed by the powers that be, the desperation of Calderon to pretend that nothing is happening makes me at the very least suspicious. Ohh and by the way for those trying to put Chavez everywhere he wont not by less than 1% but rather destroyed his very rich enemies at the polls, its clear the US administration, the ruling elites in Mexico, the newspaper owners will not tolerate anything in Mexico that would actually improve the life of the poor in Mexico. What I also find interesting coming from right wingers is that you would think that since they are not particularly sympathetic to Mexicans (no matter how they try to spin it) in the US, they would welcome someone that just might improve the lives of poor people, which would then not make them so willing to cross the border.

Posted by: Mikhail | July 11, 2006 08:43 PM

As someone else already posted, the IFE will publicly post the results of every single "casilla", so that the people who were present can make sure that the votes they counted were made valid. PRD says that they didn't have representatives in some balloting stations, yet there is no logic in that; hundreds of thousands of people go to the Zocalo after the election, but 130,000 volunteers can't be found to go to the urns when 14 million people are his supporters........
But then again it will be a painfully slow process to recount all the votes, but I guess that would finally show the transparency of the system that had random citizens counting the votes, volunteers from each party in every ballot station, and even some international observers. I'm not assuring that there weren't any irregularities, Im just saying that it wasnt't that easy to make them, specialy in numbers that could turn an election.

But heres another thought, cheating "against" your party, and recording it, just to have evidence against the system if you loose.

Posted by: | July 11, 2006 09:13 PM

Why do I have a feeling this little fellow obrador, an untutored tamale-eating farmer from South Mexico, wants to use his candidacy to start a business in the film-making industry?

Posted by: Jose Flores | July 11, 2006 09:41 PM

I certainly don't believe in the IFE and I'm glad Lopez Obrador is challenging the results and has taken it as far as the TRIFE to settle this. Hopefully the TRIFE is not yet contaminated by the bribery like the IFE.

I live in state of Tamaulipas where corruption is everywhere and where politicians get mighty rich overnight. Proof enough of the corruption is the recorded phone conversations held between Eugenio Hernandez (governor of Tamaulipas) with Elba Esther Gordillo and Pedro Cerisola. When questioned about this, his response was that he refused to participate in Gordillo's plan. If indeed he did not give in, why did he not give higher authorities the notice in order to stop this? No matter how anyone wants to see it, this is FRAUD. As it has happened lately and reminds me of the 70's and 80's, the media in Mexico is covering up for these rotten politicians and they easily get away with murder like always. We are very used to having our local and state leaders negotiating with our votes for the benefit of a few and nothing can surprise us at this point.

The biggest problem of all is many of us are sick and tired of the system and many are willing to risk their lives for the cause. It is so disappointing to see things get worse. There is no justice here and if Calderon takes the administration in December, I am very confident we will only continue with 6 more sad years of no law, unsolved crimes and even more starvation.

Posted by: K..R. | July 11, 2006 10:31 PM

I was a scrutineer in the election. The election process is very transparent and has many safeguards against vote tampering. It isn't perfect and there have been some human mistakes and lack of information from the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE), but Lopez Obrador and the PRD are taking advantage of the general population's ignorance on the election process. The Electoral High Court (TRIFE) has the power to order a full recount if there is enough evidence of irregularities, which there isn't. Lopez Obrador is placing his bets so that even if there was a full recount and he still doesn't win he will not accept the Court's final decision if it doesn't go his way.
Today he is even insulting his own party reps by saying some of them accepted bribes. This is a very pathetic and dishonest man who is driven by a blind desire for power and will not let anyone or anything stand in his way.

Posted by: Rafael Gutierrez | July 11, 2006 10:36 PM

Problem is this fanatical people and their obsessed and irresponsible candidate. Not only has he already destroyed himself politically already but he is also destroying the very base of the PRD. I have many friends who are law-abiding citizens and are very concerned and dissapointed at the prospect of having voted for a person who wants to be our president can behave in such a lowly and irrespectable manner. I am still hoping there is someone in the PRD with some moderation left who could speak out and do something about this person who lies about videos and is blackmailing the Mexican people to accept his demands or face instability. What an irresponsible person!!

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 11, 2006 11:00 PM

I really don´t think that Obrador would lead the country to a chaos. Not even if the TRIFE doesn´t order to count the ballots.

But we must remember Mexican history, and think about the "México Bravo" which is now loosing: the poor people of the south.

There are guerrillas expecting to gain terrain for their radical ideologies. They don´t beleive in electoral democracy.

It has been a terrible mistake by some mass media to identify Obrador with really radical left thinking.

By the other hand, it would be impossible for Obrador to mobilise masses if he losses again in a vote by vote recount.That is for sure.

Well, I woldn´t support him if the results show he looses again.

So, let´s count each ballot. If PAN legally won, they don´t have to be worry. Nobody has to be worry, because that action would legitimize their victory, if that is the case. And poor people of the south would paticipate with Calderón government, forgetting guerrillas and radical activism of the left.

Posted by: Francisco Guízar | July 11, 2006 11:22 PM

To make a long histoy short, MALO (MANUEL ANDRES LOPEZ OBRADOR (did you knew he had his birth certificate doctored so it wouldnt sound like that?), has no intention of respecting any other law than his greed for power, and just like Hitlers propaganda machine, malos people are repeating a lie as many times as needed until people give up, either because they are so feed up with this bs or just because they have been fooled by his untruthfull propaganda.
Before him there was pri and a lot of street vendors but since "perdere" i mean and MALO'S PRD began ruling Mexico City, " they have multiplied hundredfold and gained control of the city street and most of this hapened during MALOS ruling mexico city, and just to elaborate; have you seen how old and decrepit the city looks?
Andres el malo por favor stop trying to break mexico, we dont need or want a lier just like you or bejarano or sheinbauns husband or meny other of your friends to help us we'd rather have someone less willing to ruin mexico just for the heck of it.

Posted by: Galgo | July 11, 2006 11:27 PM

RC: The telephone industry in Mexico is not state-owned. Since Salinas government it was sold to private sector.

Posted by: Francisco Guízar | July 11, 2006 11:27 PM

Francisco, you are right. TELMEX went from being an incompetent public monopoly to a slightly less incompetent private monopoly. It is owned by AMLO's buddy buddy Carlos Slim, and what do you think the chances of a PRD administration breaking it up like ATT will be?

TELMEX also hits at the heart of why Mexico does not progress like it should. Monopolies, be they private like TELMEX or to a lesser extent CEMEX, or public like the CFE (that is Luz y Fuerza for us benighted provincials), and PEMEX, or duopolies like Televisa/TVAzteca stifle competition, foster businesses with high costs and generally hold the country back. It is no accident why call centers go to India, not Mexico; calling India is cheaper. The last time I was in Argentina, it cost me less than half to call San Diego, California from Buenos Aires, where there is (real) phone competition than that call costs from my house in Tijuana, where I can SEE San Diego. Does that make sense????
Any careful reading of AMLO's beliefs show that he would do NOTHING about the monopoly problem. If he had been running Mexico in the late 80's, even TELMEX probably would not have been privatized. The PAN under Fox has been rather useless too, but at least they tried, and this time, with a near majority in congress, they may suceed in bringing actual competition and efficiency to Mexico. That will not happen if AMLO becomes president.

But, what do I know, I am not a member of the intellegentsia.

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 11, 2006 11:44 PM

In Mexico is not clear many cuaestions about the election, some of them are:
1- fact: why the people whom have voted for felipe calderon dont support him dislike andres manuel lopez obrador?
2- fact. the publicity on tv that favored to felipe calderon used the slogan Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador es un peligro para mexico" (Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador its a dangerous for mexico) its the same propaganda used by Adolf Hitler against the jews. That propaganda in Mexico was allowed by the same electoral institute that say that the election has been the cleanest in the mexican history.
3- fact. the votes showed on the IFE's web site are not according with the physical act hanged on the walls where the people voted.

Posted by: luke fernandez | July 12, 2006 12:26 AM

The more I watch AMLO talk, the more I read his declarations to the press and his speech last saturday, the more I'm convinced that he is a total embarrasment to any true leftist in this country. I'm not happy about another six years of a PAN government. But in the other hand, I just can not find the words to express my disappointment with the PRD, who, unfortunately, seem to be the only viable left wing party in this country. (Luckily, Patricia Mercado got her register) This country deserves a lot more that a guy like AMLO in the presidency. It is unbelievable that people are still following him. What a shame.

Posted by: bunburina | July 12, 2006 12:49 AM

No otro fraude como el 88

Posted by: julio cesar leal espinosa | July 12, 2006 01:29 AM

I'm getting sick of Obrador, he appears every morning in every newspaper, on radio, on T.V., always complaining, telling lies, spreading hate, I'm not going to stand him as a president, the guy is crazy, I was reading his life, he has never worked in his entire life, he is totally unaware of how to grow a business and how to produce money by himself, he has been always living from our taxes, he has never gone outside of Mexico and doesn't know other lifestyles beside his life in Tabasco and as a politician in Mexico City, he has been living totally out of reality, I think the guy have something wrong in his head always obsessed, and I mean really obsessed! with the presidency, I hope he gets banned from political life, for life!

Posted by: Lourdes Z. | July 12, 2006 02:09 AM

Jose Flores:

Everybody is entitled to his own ignorance; for example, you probably don't know that Carlos Castillo Peraza distanced from Calderon for what Castillo considered betrayal, and that he passed away without ever speaking again to his political protege. You also make a serious accusation that I'm sure you cannot prove: that Manuel Camacho had something to do with the dead of Luis Donaldo Colosio (not Leonaldo Colosio).

I can cope with ignorance. But you have joined the club of people to whom I do not grant any moral authority to speak about Mexico and the Mexicans, after your bigoted statement: "obrador, an untutored tamale-eating farmer from South Mexico..."

On the other hand if the statement "Not only has he (AMLO) already destroyed himself politically already..." is true, I fail to understand what the fuss is all about...

Posted by: pasilla | July 12, 2006 02:11 AM

Pasilla: Why do you support this thugs?

Just a minute ago, Mr. Camacho Solis came on tv with Victor Trujillo and basically threatened the tribunals to do what they say otherwise the country will risk instability and political crisis.
They are all a bunch of criminals and they are blackmailing the country. I hope they have their stupid assembly with acarreados paid 70 pesos and then go back.
Now I completely agree that AMLO is a danger for Mexico.

Posted by: Jose Flores | July 12, 2006 12:16 PM

As a middle class Mexican from the northern states, who rose from poverty to become a succesful business owner, i have to add a few things.

1.-60% of all Mexicans did NOT vote for Lopez Obrador, why is he insisting that he is defending the vote of "the people".

2.-Lopez Obrador failed to win the presidency because he completely ignored both the middle class, wich contrary to popular belief, is a growing segment of Mexico population, specially in the north.

3.-The election was fair and clean, even the PRD accepted this reality right up until the results showed Calderon was most likely the winner, it was THEN that they started to see irregularities and fraud. NOBODY else saw it, not even his own people who where present at 75% of the voting places.

4.-Obrador has consistently shown that when things don't go his way, he will start blaming anybody and anything in order to explain his shortcomings. he did it when he broke the law and was almost impeached, and he is doing it now, even goin as far as saying that the goverment bough his own people. Whats next Sr Obrador, aliens rigged the vote and beamed ballots to the alien mother ship?

5.-I have not seen one single shred of proof that the elections where robbed, nothing, nada, zip. All he has is alegations, and not much more, he knows that the Federal Election Tribunal will not accept 95% of his claims, and will eventually award Calderon the presidency, at wich point (and remember this) he will blame the tribunal for being a part of the system.


If Obrador thinks hes going to pressure his way into the presidents seat, he has something coming, 60% of us did not vote for him, we dont want him, we dont trust him, we are silent but we are not going to let this ignorant populist destroy our nation.

Posted by: Jesus | July 12, 2006 01:09 PM

RC:

Sorry, but you are wrong again.

You have to study "Ley Televisa" and tell us if that law, which was implemented by PAN and Fox, would promote anti-monopoly competence, as you suppose that PAN has tried.

By the other hand, I´m partially agree with you: maybe Obrador will not finish with monopolies, but Calderón will promote them. The obviuos support from Televisa and TVAzteca is a clear evidence.

Posted by: Francisco Guízar | July 12, 2006 01:12 PM

Francisco, you directed your second batch of comments on the telephone monopoly to the wrong person. I stand corrected, Telmex is no longer state-owned. However, my original point holds, statist economies are no panacea. If I thought they brought generalized prosperity, I would support them, but the evidence I see suggests they don't.

AMLO is really getting pathetic, now he is attacking his party's own representatives.

Posted by: RC | July 12, 2006 01:58 PM

Pasilla:

Who appointed you as exclusive grantor of "moral authority" to people? How is calling someone a "tamale eater" worse than calling someone a fascist?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 12, 2006 02:52 PM

I think that there's been a lot of misinformation in this forum. Forgive me if I don't get everyone's names and please excuse my English.

First, as far as civil society can tell, as well as international observers and academics, IFE is a model institution. Proof of this is that IFE employees are frequently invited to overlook other countries' elections as advisors and observers, and to share their technical expertise. The IFE is constituted by citizens, and also citizens are the ones who run and certify EVERY polling place, and who count the votes and sign the certificates with the tally of votes.

Second,the so-called Ley Televisa was approved with the votes of PRD representatives and senators. Remember the famous phrase by Pablo Gómez, AFTER he had voted for the law: "Fue un error, es que no la leímos". This was repeated by Jesús Ortega, one of the leaders of López Obrador´s campaign team. These are two of the most respected members of PRD.

Third, saying something is so does not make it true. The fact that AMLO sumbited a 900 page report to the TRIFE does not grant it any veracity in and of itself. They have to actually offer proof, not just accusations.

Fourth, although I generally agree with the comments about monopolies, I don´t think either candidate has offered to break them up, so that disarms that argument. At most, AMLO has offered, albeit ambiguously, to put an end to privileges enjoyed by some sectors of the population. I say ambiguously because he always recites phrases, but he ommits to mention that presidents in the CURRENT system are not omnipotent, but rather counterbalanced by congress.

Fifth, the PAN has also engaged in a calculated PR campaign to bolster its victory, just like the PRD has engaged in one to impugn it. The difference is that thanks to his advantageous position, Calderón looks generous right now, offering to extend bridges to the opposition and to govern for everyone. We all have heard that before, but it has yet to materilize.

Sixth, PAN did engage in a mudslinging campaign. So did PRD, but they hid their hand. The comparisons they made of Calderón to Hitler, and where they painted him as having bloody hands, lacked even a modicum of truth and proportion. Some followers of both candidates are quite "passionate", to say the least. This passion leads them to see the opposition as the devil incarnate; if you want an example, just read some of the comments in this forum. As an anecdote, a friend of mine asserted, without a shadow of a doubt, that Calderón and PAN would constitute a fascist government, along the lines of the Franco regime. The other side thinks AMLO is a Castro in the making. I think both positions are ridiculous, and would be laughable if they did not have the potential to turn violent.

My personal opinion of both candidates has varied. I am, by training, by family tradition, and by cotext (I am in academia) a leftist. Five years ago, I was, albeit tenuously, conviced of AMLO´s probity and tought that he was better for the country than any other candidate visible at the time. After all, I don´t think there is anything wrong with caring for the poor and the least fortunate; I don´t think that is wrong to ask for a more just distribution of wealth (or, to say another way, that we all share in the pie). Nonetheless, I grew disillusioned with AMLO´s impertinence and flouting of the law. For those of you with a forgetful mind, I point to you that AMLO´s arguments, in many instances, reverted to "unjust laws". He once said, and I quote from memory, "I cannot obey a law that is unjust, that goes against the people". This leads me to another characteristic of his that puts me off: he has, time and time again, claim to have to will of the people with him, to only be doing what the people want, and more phrases along those lines. How does he know the will of the people, by telepathy? And the rest of the people, the ones who don´t agree with him, are they martians or what?
Another aspect of AMLO´s campaign that scared me is the return to the statist policies of the PRI years. Granted, we need to take care of the poor, but the money to do it does not come from trees. One does not need to be a specialist to find AMLO´s economic proposals problematic. How can you base your economic strategy on fighting corruption and reducing bureaucrats´s salaries? Fighting corruption should be a priority, but it cannot be the heart of my budget. For those hard-core perredistas outhere, don´t you think this sounds ridiculous, to put it mildly. And don´t even get me started with the high-speed train thing, which does not withstand even the scrutiny of a high school economics class (in Mexico, in some high schools we take economics, depending on your area of specialization, believe it or not, hehehehe). AMLO has gotten to the point where he is accusing almost all of society as being part of the conspiracy: the citizens who counted the votes, the church, tv, radio, and now even his own collaborators and observers to each polling place. Doesn´t this sound kind of paranoid to you? I could go on and on as to why I went from a cautious AMLO supporter, to a disillusioned Mexican liberal, but I think you get my point.

Of Calderón, well, he is a gray figure that has taken advantage of the few oportunities he´s had. I don´t forsee any actual modernization of social programs that would help the poor, which makes me upset. Also, as I said before, I don´t think that he will break up any monopolies. He will be, like Fox, a somewhat charismatic candidate, and a gray president. Why, you ask, am I more severe with AMLO? Simple, he was my "natural" candidate, and he was in the news everyday, so there is more to criticize.

As a last comment, my intuition tells me that it would be better for everyone if the votes were counted one by one again, that way there would be no doubt as to who won, even though apparently a full recount is not contemplated in the law (this is what I have read so far); it´s only the ballot boxes that show irregularities that can be opened. However, the other side of that coin is the legality. Are we going to flout the laws everytime that it seems "better" to do so? If we don´t like the law, let´s change it via the appropriate chanels, like congress, not when it suits us. In any event, I am already sick and tired of this, and I just want it to be over, whoever the winner is in the end.

Posted by: Roberto Mendoza | July 12, 2006 04:11 PM

We as Mexicans have a lot of problems. One of most important, from my perspective, is the total lack of faith in our institutions. I am not saying that there is not historical precedent that justifies it. We have lived through more than 70 years of a one party system. Through governments that passed the law under the arch, as we would say. The saddest part is that all of the opposition parties have fought for many years to construct an organism that would above all suspicion precisely because they were all represented there and the elections would be as fair as they could be considering our regional idiosyncrasies and this election, that the candidates have turned into a north vs south and "rich" vs poor spectacle, could destroy it. The system is not perfect. But, it is the system that all of the political parties agreed to work under. There are flaws. These have to be addressed by said political parties through reforms in the law. If the results are unfair and you can prove foul play, there is legal recourse to try to resolve dispute. That is the way that it was designed. Instead of campaigning for five years AMLO should have convinced his party's legislators to introduce initiatives to change the law to make it fairer.

I, personally, am not happy with the way either AMLO or Calderon and their advisors have handled this. I not really sure who pronounced himself the winner, first. The truth is I don't care. But, the other one followed and continued to escalate the rhetoric. When no one got the landslide victory that they had predicted, the only ones that acted with any semblance of civility were the other candidates who had nothing to win, including Dr. Simi.

You say that a full recount would be the best way to clear the air. Who would AMLO believe? Would he have to recount the votes personally? Who would oversee the count? Who does AMLO trust but himself? There were 41,791,322 votes emitted on Election Day. If he did it himself, it would almost 8 years nonstop @ 6 seconds/vote. Some people have suggested that we let him do it.

Posted by: Timoteo | July 12, 2006 05:38 PM

Roberto Mendoza:

Relax, take a deep breath! You really sound tired. I was expecting some cogent corrections to our comments in this blog. But it didn' happen. Let me comment on some of your obesrvations, if I may. Not on all, because it would take me for ever.

Before I start, I want to clarify something once again: I didn't vote for AMLO; I couldn't do it; therefore, I only defend principles, such as rational argument based on factual information.

"IFE is a model institution..." There is no perfect institution because all are made up of imperfect humans. Just a couple of points here. Mr. Ugalde, and the other council members, were elected without the participation of the PRD. Mr. Ugalde used to work at the PRI; he was recommended to the position, having no special qualifications, by Elba Esther Gordillo, who has recently being heard in a telephone conversation to advice one governor of the PRI to go "blue," (meaning to support Calderon) on election day. The IFE fumbled the handling of the election results for president big time; the PREP was a sad joke. Some of Mr. Ugalde's (school chum of Mr. Calderon, who was an honor witness in his wedding) remarks were very unfortunate, and he came short in handling questions (remember the 3 million votes missing?). Even after all this facts, we may give Mr Ugalde and the IFE the benefit of the doubt, regarding the honest handling of results; however, it is more difficult to deny some level of incompetence. Moreover, as Plutarch wisely put it: "It is not enough that the wife of Cesar is faithful; she should also APPEAR to be faithful..."

"The IFE is constituted by citizens..." Yes. Everybody above 18 years of age in Mexico is a citizen. What do you mean?

"The fact that AMLO sumbited a 900 page report to the TRIFE does not grant it any veracity..." The report is accompanied by documentation of the perceived irregularities (documents, pictures, video recordings, etc.). The court will tell if it is material or not. Let's wait an see.

"The comparisons they made of Calderón to Hitler, and where they painted him as having bloody hands, lacked even a modicum of truth and proportion..." Who are "they"? The "danger for Mexico" campaign was undoubtly paid by PAN.

"How does he know the will of the people, by telepathy?" Did you watch the big concentration in Mexico City the other day? You may want to grant him a little bit of representativity...

"Doesn´t this sound kind of paranoid to you?" Not really, after witnessing all the maneuvers that the President, PAN and some businessmen have resorted to, to stop him short of becoming President. In the face of the practice of many politicians to roll over and hide when things don't go their way, what I believe move some oponents of AMLO towards irrational behaviours is his spirited defense of his ideals. Perhaps we need more people like him.

Posted by: pasilla | July 12, 2006 05:41 PM

AMLO does not have any ideals, other than the ideal of accumulating power for AMLO. A man with ideals would not claim that his own poll watchers, dedicated party members who volunteered their time, are corrupt. A man with ideals would announce his intentions regarding this election. Will AMLO accept the decision of the TRIFE? If it goes his way he will, but if not? He will not say. Will AMLO accept the result of a vote recount? Again, certainly if it goes his way (and he will demand that PAN accept it too), but if not? He will not say. These are ideals.

As to new ideas, the man has none. His political program reads like something out of the 1970's era PRI. That is progress?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 12, 2006 06:00 PM

Sorry again RC,

I rectify: Bourbon was the one who defended PAN as an anti-monopoly party.

I´m not agree with that appreciation.

Posted by: Francisco Guízar | July 12, 2006 06:10 PM

Ever since IFE was created our elections have been each time a celebration, a civic festival, where some people lose and some people won but where we always respected the results and went back to work and look to the future. The 1997 elections were a big party with a divided congress for the first time in history and with the three main political forces well represented there. Then the 2000 presidential elections were also another big party and celebrations and none complained. Mr. Cardenas and Mr. Labastida both accepted the IFE results and congratulated the winner.
That is too much to ask from AMLO and company. Mr. Horario Duarte has made everyday a nightmare for the IFE staff with his offensive and frantic interventions eversince those numbers did not favor them. Mr. AMLO has made all kinds of offensive remarks to the IFE, The President, Felipe Calderon, his own polling representatives who worked so hard on election day and accussed officials in the governement. He has made it a nightmare for the rest of us who voted for Felipe Calderon. He has acussed the northern states of conspiring and committing fraud against him. He has shown taped conversations obtained illegally and only to probe nothing but a little conversation about electoral preferences. He has lied showing some videos and saying things that never hapened, has made scorn of European Elections Observers and Other observers, and is begining to put the markets a little nervous these days. In any international news agency, CNN, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, LeMonde,El Pais, El mundo, etc. they are all talking about Mr. Obrador's allegations as they put it because none of these international newspapers will take Mr. Obrador's for granted, and at the same time they also state in those same articles that the European Union has declared the elections clean and fair and so have done many other election observers.
Now people are getting disgusted every time they see his face on tv, for they know he is going to spread lies, hate, blackmail threatening of violence in the streets if we do not give him what he wants.
What is going on here?

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 12, 2006 06:30 PM

empyboxes:

"threatening of violence in the streets if we do not give him what he wants..."

What has AMLO asked from you? He asked for your vote, and you didn't give it to him. Your choice.

The "markets" would have to take a "te de tila." The president of the European observers said that he would favor a vote per vote recount, if law allows it. I haven't heard AMLO making all the accusations that you impute him... What else? Ah, yes!

"What is going on here?"

Democracy, that's what is going on...

Posted by: pasilla | July 12, 2006 06:51 PM

pasilla...

Precisely, "Democracy, thats what is going on..."

And what went on on the 2nd July.

The people voted, AMLO lost, not just to Calderon but to the other, approximately two thirds of Mexican voters who chose not to vote for "the man of the people", accept it!

As to regards the Northern States, I live in one, Chihuahua, that´s the big one at the top. My aunt (tia) was president incharge of one of the actas (polling booths in England) and after all was finished all were amazed that it was PRI with the highest count by far. This was in a small town in the sierra madre (very poor town were AMLO should have done well, if he really cares about these people). AMLO concentrated his efforts in the south because he has his power base (Mob)there and can know what goes on with every vote.

Here, when speaking (not asking, or conducting a poll) with voters they were basically saying "we voted PRI because they give us food".

PAN does not try to buy these votes, but relies on the intelligence of people to make their own minds up. If PAN (by no means perfect) allows the middle class people who voted for them to expand their businesses, it means more jobs, more money, more chance of saving some to start another new business, which means more jobs, more.......

Look at how United Kingdom (Reino Unidad, although in Mexico, England, Great Britain etc seem to mean the same place) had to go through some tough times in the early 1980´s to get itself, if not back on it´s feet, at least it´s knees.

The only way to prosperity is through enterprise. If PAN does not fan the flame of small business, this country is finished.

Mexico has oil, and due to factors outside it´s making, AMLO would love to use the increased oil revenue for pointless projects for the poor of this country. Don´t make jobs, create opportunity.

There´s a quote from somebody somewhere which goes something like "Yes, you have oil, but the stone age didn´t finish because they run out of stones"

Posted by: PeterN | July 12, 2006 08:01 PM

Pasilla,

I hope you know how to read Spanish. Following are some quotes from AMLO. All were made in public and televised in Mexico. I notice that you claim that you haven't heard or read any of the things said by emptyboxes. These are just a few. You have asked people on several occasions to read up before emitting judgment. I suggest you do the same. I didn't want to translate them because you would probably nitpick the translation.

1) Andrés Manuel López Obrador dijo ayer que algunos de sus representantes no actuaron con rectitud y que a varios se les ofreció dinero.

En conferencia de prensa, el candidato presidencial de la coalición Por el Bien de Todos se refirió al tema cuando se le cuestionó el hecho de que su representante en la casilla 2227, de Salamanca, avaló el supuesto "embarazo" de una urna, mostrado por López Obrador en un video que exhibió el lunes pasado.

‹¿Qué opina del testimonio de su representante de casilla en Salamanca?, se le cuestionó.

"Bueno", dijo, "pues que eso lo que afianza es la idea de que
no todos los representantes de nosotros actuaron con rectitud, eso es todo".

Entonces, ¿falló su estructura electoral?

"No", expresó. "Hubo mucho dinero de por medio. No quiero decir que fue el caso, pero tenemos elementos en donde llegaban a ofrecer dinero a nuestros representantes."

2) "Fox se ha convertido en un traidor a la democracia", aseguró López Obrador en conferencia de prensa, "porque para que él llegara a la Presidencia sefueron abriendo espacios poco a poco, con el sufrimiento, con el sacrificio de mucha gente.

"Y llega él a la Presidencia gracias a eso y se comporta así, de manera antidemocrática, como mapache".

3) "más despiadadas embestidas antidemocráticas de que se tenga memoria en el País".

"Ellos fueron los que lanzaron la leyenda negra sobre mi persona y la propaganda fascista, según la cual yo era un peligro para México".

En uno de los discursos más fuertes que ha pronunciado desde que fue acusado de desacato, el político tabasqueño aseguró que las felicitaciones de mandatarios extranjeros son una faramalla y que su adversario Felipe Calderón es sólo un pelele.

"Ha sido precisamente el predominio de ese grupo, de esa minoría rapaz, lo que ha llevado al País a la ruina.

"Son los que han convertido al Gobierno en un comité al servicio de unos cuántos y son los que ahora quieren imponer, en la Presidencia, a un empleado incondicional, a un pelele que les garantice perpetuar la corrupción, el influyentismo y la impunidad", acusó.

También aprovechó el foro para acusar al IFE de haberse convertido en un ariete del PAN, que se entregó "por entero a la simulación electoral, a través de la manipulación del sistema de cómputo de votos".

"Esto les digo, me duele. Manipularon el sistema de cómputo de la votación jugando, ultrajando, pisoteando, la dignidad, los sentimientos, la esperanza de millones de mexicanos", denunció.

4) "Me preocupa la irresponsabilidad con la que están actuando nuestros adversarios del Gobierno, la irresponsabilidad de los funcionarios del IFE, del candidato de la derecha, porque está de por medio la estabilidad política y la salud pública.
"No debieron de actuar de esa manera, ese espectáculo de ayer, de montar la difusión de los resultados, levantaron toda la expectativa, reanimaron a mucha gente, a millones de mexicanos y luego el golpe; eso es irresponsable, eso es un acto de provocación", dijo.

Según el tabasqueño, los consejeros del IFE no actuaron con rectitud, ya que manipularon el PREP, mediante la administración sesgada de los datos de la jornada electoral.

"Hice un exhorto a los funcionarios del IFE para que actuaran con responsabilidad, advertí que no era conveniente darle prisa y parece que hicieron lo opuesto.
"En 24 horas, con una prisa inusual, quemaron el término legal; en 24 horas resuelven una elección que numéricamente está sin decisión. En ese sentido no hubo disposición, no hubo voluntad para hacer efectiva la transparencia, por eso vamos al Tribunal Federal Electoral", dijo.


Posted by: TG | July 12, 2006 09:09 PM

AMLO is calling people who disagree with him a fascist. (see above). What else is new?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 12, 2006 09:24 PM

Here are some very interesting freudanian phrases from a certain candidate:


- I never lie. I always say the truth.

- I won. I know it and you know I never lie.

Therefore, I won. If I am who I say I am then I must have won and indeed I am then the president. The other one, the candidate of the right, he lies, he always lies. and he is the candidate of the rich. the people on the top. Therefore he did not win. I am the candidate of the poor. I represent the hopes of many people. I talk to people. They tell me what to do. Because I won and I never lie. I am the Elected President.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 12, 2006 09:43 PM

This is from the renowned right wing/fascist newspaper La Jornada (lol). Even AMLO's own party is beginning to have doubts about him. Especially in Guanajuato where he libeled one of his own poll workers...

PRD de Guanajuato marca distancia de AMLO

Martín Diego

12/07/2006 19:25

Guanajuato, Gto. La dirigencia estatal del PRD en la entidad marcó distancia con las presuntas irregularidades presentadas por el abanderado de la coalición Por el Bien de Todos, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, pues argumentan que el partido no entregó ninguna evidencia de los presuntos fraudes.

El dirigente estatal del partido del sol azteca en la entidad, José Luis Barbosa, declaró en conferencia de prensa que hubo "un exceso de interpretación de parte de López Obrador al presentar unos videos que no sé de donde salieron".

También rechazaron que en una casilla de León hubiera 100 votos de más en favor de Calderón.

The man is nuts nuts nuts nuts. Period. The funny thing is that before the election, I was the only person amongst many friends who, while wanting Calderon to win, would have preferred, if the PAN had lost to have AMLO win, and not Madrazo of the PRI, which would have been a voyage back in time to the bad old days. In retrospect, I think I was wrong, even someone as crooked as Madrazo is not a paranoid nutcase like our MALO, er AMLO.

Posted by: | July 12, 2006 10:46 PM

The above comment is by ME!!! Why does this system not have a failsafe for idiots who forget to enter their names?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 12, 2006 10:53 PM

Just a little correction:

La Jornada is not a right wing newspaper.

It is actually left-wing but not the kind of left we know in the USA or Europe, this newspaper represents the views of the most intolerant communist organizations in the country. Many of them sprouting from UNAM. There is a history in the radical communism of the country and it goes back to the spanish refugees during the franco regime.
But in Mexico many of these radical thinking communist found fertile ground in our UNAM university, where anti-americanism runs deep and it mixed with the radical communism. In the last decade La Jornada has also shown strong signs of Anti-Semitism.

This is all very simple to check. Just go to their website http://www.jornada.unam.mx and in the SEARCH BOX type SEPTIEMBRE 11 and you will see that all, absolutely all of the articles found talk about the September 11 attacks in the light of the reasons the poor islamic extremists had to do it. It excuses, apologizes and sometimes openly supports their thirst to kill Americans. One of their most asiduous contributor and quite a representative and respected figure of the left in Mexico is Rosario Ibarra de Piedra, she laughed and cried of happiness when those poor people were trowing themselves from the towers in the September 11 attacks, she writes there everyday and is a supporter of AMLO. La Jornada is also Anti-Semitic, if you type Israel in the search box you will find how all articles found will talk about the palestinian-israeli conflict from the palestinian side of the story. Often times you see pictures there of poor palestinian children victims of israeli soldiers attacks but i have yet to see there a single little picture or even a note of an israeli victim.
La Jornada also openly supports Marcos and his alledgedly indigenuous and anti-globalization movement, nobody knows what the movement is all about anymore, but somehow I suspect this fellow Marcos is working for United Colors of Benetton.

La Jornada is totally partisan and biased on all these issues and they are of course completely supporting AMLO and the PRD.

They also supported all the La Otra Campaña thing of Marcos, they never mentioned how this fellow marcos takes turns at nights with Chiapas 12 year old girls (in the traditions of these indigenous people that is legal) And some of the leaders of anti-globalifobic and gay groups of Spain, Italy and some in the United States also contribute to their stories.
Their most important writer, some fellow namde Julio Hernandes Lopez is famous for his cocaine conspiracy theories about the Mexican right wing organization EL YUNQUE.

All the months of the elections campaign, La Jornada made remarks and characterized and made fun of Calderon because he was so short, or because he is Catholic, etc. All the campaign the laughed at him, I have not checked lately to see whether they continue doing so.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 12, 2006 11:17 PM

Has everybody noticed that the pro-Calderon campaign is, and always has been, in reality the anti-AMLO campaign? I wonder what lies in the depths of the minds of these gentlemen, who turn them against somebody with such hatred...

Get to it, Jerry Bourbon and emptyboxes; keep correcting each other, to see if, by chance, from your delirant exchange at least a tiny bit of truth comes out...

Emptyboxes: you forgot to inform the readers that La Jornada's journalists dine on grilled children...

Posted by: pasilla | July 12, 2006 11:54 PM

Empty Boxes.

Dude, SARCASM! Get it? Sarcasm. I am perfectly aware of what La Jornada is. It is like some one calling the Wall Street Journal a communist rag.

Pasilla: I do not hate anyone. Hatred is something for the Hugo Chavez type of leftest who has no other program than turning people against the "evil other". I do think that AMLO would be a disaster for Mexico, and his actions since the election just reinforce that thought.

Suppose, for an instant that somehow he does become president, and that by a miracle the 65% of the population that voted against him accepts this overturning of an election. What then? He will govern with a congress in which his party has no prayer of holding a majority. If you think the press attacks on Fox have been bad, wait until Reforma or El Norte get after AMLO, as they will. The PRI controlled unions will laugh at him when he tries to "enrich the poor" by cutting buerocrats' salaries. To top it off, petroleum is at historic highs, and will probably not stay at $70 a barrel for his sexenio.

So, things will not go his way. Congress and the unions will obstruct him. Oil prices will drop, and with them federal revenues. The American congress is going to do him no favors on the immigration front. What will his reaction be? I have a strong fear that he is going to discover a "complot" of Mexican "traitors" (ie anyone who is a northerner or not a blind supporter) and foreign (gringo) "imperialists" out to get him. What will be his reaction. In three years, there will be congressional elections. If things are not going well, the PRD will take a bath in these elections. Will AMLO accept this, or will he discover that the "Yunque" and the gringos have stolen another election? Whither Mexico?

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 13, 2006 12:11 AM

Felipe Calderon represents a new generation of professional politicians. Even though he started out his campaign when 80 of people have not heard of him. I remember how Mr. Obrador and Madrazo both laughed at him at the begining of the campaign. But they underestimated. PAN traditionally has ran campaigns alone. The 2000 Presidential campaign being an exception. But for the most part, the party has always been self-suficient and their people usually comes from a well-educated and highly-participative middle-class. This where they find their base. PRD and PRI have made big mistakes by not catering to the middle classes in Mexico, which are growing little by little. This is a lesson to be learned by any future president wannabes in Mexico. If they want to win, they have to appeal to everybody, because as a society we prefer to be integrated.
Calderon is young, his people are young, he has competitive women helping him and he knows how to make alliances. He saw an opportunity when Gordillo started getting isolated from PRI. He started working with her and she helped him get a few million votes. That was a big mistake for Lopez Obrador, when Gordillo was getting alone they ignored her and they should have known they were in fact ignoring a very strategic potential ally.
And then the spot campaign exposing Mr. Lopez Obrador worst personality sides, and comparing him with Hugo Chavez. That really helped.
But don't make a mistake my friend, we in the north of Mexico vote for PAN and dislike PRD leftist and populists candidates. And in the first democratic elections we showed that we have desicion power because we are less people but we vote more, our abstensionism is as low as in DF and we elected Fox in 2000, Elected Felipe in 2006, and will probably elect the next president in 2012. Because it will be very hard for the left to come up with one as strong as Mr. Obrador was.
I think, however, that Marcelo Ebrard can build a support base in the north but he must start soon.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 12:37 AM

Thank you, emptyboxes, for reminding me of one painful episode in Mexico, just after September 11, 2001, when the leftists had a great time trashing the United States and talking about how the gringos deserved it.

I am not saying AMLO is of that ilk. He seems to be a decent person in the basic sense of who he is, but the people around him are a scary lot. If he couldn't even control the corrupt ones during his time as head of the government of DF, and if, as he incredibly alleges, his own representatives were taking bribes at the polling places during this election, then what kind of governance could we expect from him as president?

Now, I hear, people are flowing into Mexico City from el campo, some on burros. What a mess there will be in the historic center by this weekend. Maybe AMLO can show them all some more of his home videos. Maybe he could run some old Pedro Infante movies and re-dub them with dialogue that provides further evidence of fraud in the election. That is about how credible he has been so far.

Posted by: Goyo | July 13, 2006 01:47 AM

Always good to follow these discucions,

but a quote from my gardener, here in Chihuahua....

"Yeah, I voted for Lopez, but now he makes us all look like fools, I won´t vote for him again....how many of his supporters can he insult before he goes"

The guy is finished, a dead parrot, just let him disapear in peace. I believe Britains deputy prime minister John Prescott needs a buddy to hang out with, they should get together.

"Take your medicine like a man AMLO" you lost, failed, became a loser, are not wanted.

AMLO, declare yourself an unsound person, you may make some (more) millions from the book of your pathetic career.

Posted by: PeterN | July 13, 2006 02:06 AM

Jerry: La Jornada is leftist. But in the latin-american sense of the word. Left in USA means democracy, freedom, equal opportunities etc.
Left in Mexico means: Anti-Americanism, Anti-Semitism, Anti-Catholisism,Comunism, Leninism and extremism.
La Jornada edits the stories to accomodate to this leftist agenda.
Want to read a non-partisan newspaper? El Universal, Reforma, Excelsior. These are non partisan, they do not edit the stories and you will find more balanced opinions from both left and right political tendencies.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 06:48 AM

La Jornada is also behind all these cocaine leftist writers who ignorantly and manipulated by what they think is left, are spreading the notion that there was an election fraud in Mexico.

I it is really disgusting how far these people can go.

Now PRD is demanding the anullment of the presidential election. Their hate is so much, their incapacity to recognize the Felipe beat them up is making them take extreme options.

And now. Little by little, some journalists are begining to talk about AMLO being a little crazy. I first heard this in Imagen. But last night in Tercer Grado, somebody, I think it was Denisse Maerker and also Carlos Marin, hinted that AMLO was getting also crazy and that there were some people in the PRD who were already noticing it.

And since nobody in the PRD will ever dare to tell their bosss that he is getting nuts, PAN should really offer a psicologist in an effort to build bridges of friendship and collaboration between Felipe Calderon and AMLO. I know for a fact that some of the business man who support Felipe Calderon own some very good mental hospitals and perhaps they could arrange some kind of scenario where the disguise the Mental Hostipal as the National Palace and the room as the Original Room where Benito Juarez used to live, and with CCTV he will see himself on TV all the time. I am just worried about AMLO, we definitely need to do something soon.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 07:25 AM

Thanks for the link to LaJornada. Their lead article has this quote from AMLO

"Si Felipe Calderón pretende imponerse de la manera que se ha visto, vía un fraude y una campaña de odio para acabar con el contrincante, no es difícil imaginar cómo gobernará. Sin legitimidad, sin escrúpulos, sin moral, sin principios, sin nada".

So he is opting for scorched earth. Jeez, was a sore loser. Do populists have any dignity?

Posted by: RC | July 13, 2006 09:56 AM

Because, contrary to their wishes, the LEGAL process to qualify the election continues, some representatives of the extreme right come to this space to spew their venom. Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans (among others, individuals like PeterN's gardener) are excersing their right to demonstrate (that, as far as I know, is still in the Mexican Constitution).

"La Jornada is also behind all these cocaine leftist writers..." I see; but you hate nobody...

"AMLO, declare yourself an unsound person..." Please, spare us your psicobabble!

"He (Calderon) started working with her (Gordillo) and she helped him get a few million votes..." Even in politics there should be some decency boundaries...

"I it is really disgusting how far these people can go..."

I could apply exactly the same words to some people and their vitriol in this blog.

This is getting tiresome, and a waste of my time. I'll keep watching as the story unfolds. I want to believe that people like Jerry Bourbon and emptyboxes represent the fringe of the right in Mexico. If not, I truly fear for my country.

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 10:52 AM

And to give you guys an idea of why AMLO only got 27.61% of the vote in Nuevo Leon:

Monterrey, México (13 julio 2006).- En medio de retrasos y desorganización, una caravana de apoyo integrada por 280 perredistas y petistas partió ayer a la Ciudad de México para participar el domingo en la segunda asamblea informativa a la que convocó el candidato presidencial de la Coalición por el Bien de Todos, Andrés Manuel López Obrador.

A partir de las 16:00 horas, los asistentes comenzaron a reunirse en la Plaza Zaragoza, donde esperarían la salida para una marcha previa, programada para las 17:30 horas, pero que se retrasó una hora y media.

Mientras salían a la marcha, los manifestantes se entretuvieron lanzando consignas e insultos en contra del proceso electoral, los organismos electorales, el Gobierno de Vicente Fox, los empresarios, los sindicatos y el PAN, y su candidato presidencial, Felipe Calderón.

Up to here, all seems normal. But, why go to church after you shout insults. Could it be that they want to repent like good God fearing Christians?

A las 18:20 horas, unas 200 personas del contingente, encabezadas por Socorro Ceseñas, dirigente estatal del PRD, y Guadalupe Rodríguez, Diputada local del PT, entraron a la Catedral Metropolitana de Monterrey, en donde dirigieron una plegaria para encomendarse en el viaje y llamar a sus oponentes a aceptar la derrota.

Tras 30 minutos de oración, el contingente comenzó a entonar cantos religiosos y cerró su breve visita con el tradicional tema de las peregrinaciones, La Guadalupana.

As far I know, AMLO is not the Virgin Mary and this march is not a pilgrimage.

Posted by: TG | July 13, 2006 11:45 AM

A ver si nos entendemos:
Hay un candidato triunfador. Gano por .5%. Eso dicen el IFE y LAS ACTAS, firmadas por los representantes de los partidos (el PRD solo pudo acreditar el 75% en las casillas).
Que sigue?: la revision y la calificacion de la eleccion. Y la declaracion de Presidente Electo.
Que el Cacique de Macuspana esta fuera de control?. Alguien esperaba otra cosa?. Aguantaran las instituciones mexicanas a este peculiar sujeto?. Creo que si; sin mayores problemas. Ya estan demasiado vistos sus enormes defectos y problemas personales. Ni los pobrecitos "pobres" van a continuar creyendo sus hermosas historias. Y ya se esta quedando solo; ni ese otro peculiar senor llamado Ebrard lo aguanta mas.
Pronto pasara este aguacero y seguiremos trabajando. Ningun grupo va a morir por Amlo. Lo veremos.
Lo siento por el camarada Pasilla. Otra vez, una vez mas, se equivoca.

Posted by: Eduardo Valle | July 13, 2006 12:06 PM

The real question is, how long will it take the PRD to finally put a stop to Lopez Obrador?

They won a lot of political capital during these elections, and now Lopez Obrador is wasting it away and looking like a fool in the process.

I say, give him as much rope as he wants to hang himself.

Posted by: Jesse | July 13, 2006 12:18 PM

De cuando a aca somos "camaradas" tu y yo, Eduardo Valle? Podrias sacarme de mi error? En que me equivoco? Yo si tengo elementos para senalar una equivocacion. Alguien en este dialogo (no yo) se equivoco en un 75% (con los datos disponibles hasta el momento): recuerdas el millon de votos con que ganaria tu candidato? Ya sabemos lo que dicen LAS ACTAS. Ahora queda por saber que dicen LOS VOTOS. Me asombra la erudicion e informacion de la derecha. Con el mayor desenfado pueden dictaminar sobre "los problemas personales" (?) de cualquiera y hablar sobre la forma de pensar de quien les plazca (por ejemplo, Marcelo Ebrard). Repito lo que ya dije: parece que LA VERDAD es opcional en el discurso de la reaccion...

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 12:25 PM

This is a beauty, TG. Are the followers of AMLO going to be excommunicated?

I recall a presidential candidate who used to wave a banner of the Virgin of Guadalupe during his political meetings; his name? Vicente Fox...

Jesse, why don't you go to PRD with your "wise" advise? The new PAN strategy, as recorded in today's Mexican press, is an attempt to divide the PRD. Your comment is very transparent, Jesse...

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 12:35 PM

Es cierto, Senor Pasilla, me equivoque en 75%. Calderon solo gano por unos 250 mil votos. Pero gano; su mas cercano adversario (Malito) perdio. Y el 65% de la poblacion eligio otra opcion. Nada mas.
Bueno: al menos no me equivoque cuando senale que Calderon resultaria el candidato triunfador.
Y, senor Pasilla, pensaba que eras camarada con tus camaradas pejelagartianos. Tambien aqui me equivoque?. Ciao.

Posted by: Eduardo Valle | July 13, 2006 12:55 PM

Actually, pasila, my gardener won´t be demonstrating. He is, of course, free to do so, but as I stated earlier, he thinks AMLO has gone too far, and is helping nobody in this country. In fact, last time I saw him watching AMLO on TV, he was saying AMLO was a pend***o.

But don´t worry if PRD´s own voters are turning away from him, you got silver didn´t you? Why not keep that to tell your grandchildren about?

Posted by: PeterN | July 13, 2006 01:07 PM

Pasilla,

You seem to justify every thing that AMLO and his crowd has done by pointing out that Fox did the same at one time or another. Does that mean you approve of what Fox did or are you using that as an excuse? Abuse has no political color and I don't think using people religious beliefs to exploit them is justified by anyone. You seem to pride yourself as being better informed than the rest of us mere mortals. So please don't use that a defense. I wouldn't accept that from a child. Much less from someone that is apparently an adult.

Posted by: TG | July 13, 2006 01:17 PM

Yo no sé ustedes que piensen, pero yo no reconoceré a Italia como campeón del mundial de futbol. Impugnaré el resultado ya que estuvo muy cerrado, tan solo por un gol de diferencia, y el penal se fallo por menos de 5 centimetros de la linea.

Además, me parece muy sospechoso que Italia haya empatado el partido cuando todos vimos claramente que Francia iba ganando.

Asi que exigiré que se revise gol por gol y portería por portería para saber realmente quien ganó el mundial.

Además, de acuerdo a mi conteo, Italia falló más penalties que Francia así que exijo a la FIFA que respete mis resultados.

En este momento, ningún equipo puede decirse ganador ni proclamarse campeón del mundo. Por lo tanto, respetuosamente le solicito al equipo de Italia y a sus seguidores se abstengan de realizar celebración alguna y regresen la copa hasta que se aclare esta situación.

Unete a mi !! Defendamos el triunfo de Francia !!

Vamos a la plaza de la Concordia y al Museo de Louvre a defender el triunfo de La France !!


Su amigo el PEJE

Posted by: P | July 13, 2006 01:24 PM

Eduardo Valle:

Sigo aguardando tus correcciones a mis dichos. Pero no tuve que esperar mucho para que escupieras otras de tus mentiras e inexactitudes (salpicadas con una pretendida "gracia"):

"Y el 65% de la poblacion eligio otra opcion..." Esta frase se puede tambien aplicar a tu candidato. Nada mas (y nada menos).

"al menos no me equivoque cuando senale que Calderon resultaria el candidato triunfador..." Aun no sabemos si te equivocaste o no. El TRIFE no ha emitido la constancia de mayoria y hay impugnaciones (tanto del PRI como del PAN) en progreso. Pero claro, detalles...

PeterN:

I'm not going to argue with your gardener; I'm reading what you say:

"you got silver didn´t you? Why not keep that to tell your grandchildren about..."

If I understood what you are talking about, I would attempt to answer. But I don't...

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 01:33 PM

Consider the following: if all of the ballot boxes are opened in the absence of any evidence of errors or tampering, this would be contrary to the law and would consitute legal grounds (as opposed to concocted grounds) for nulifying the election.

Posted by: PG | July 13, 2006 01:36 PM

Pasilla-- You seem like and intelligent, reasonable person. You probably really believe in AMLO's promises to help the poor, which is commendable.

But now that you have seen him making these questionable charges against the whole electoral system, don't you realize you backed the wrong horse? Did you watch this man show a video as "proof" of fraud and then see how the whole thing was easily explained? His own representatives were there and signed off on the transfer of votes to their proper box. But then he says maybe they were "bought." In any court of law in the United States the judge would have already thrown out such testimony.

The PRD should take the political capital they won and use it for the future, not squander it on an effort to put this kook in power. The PRD has grown dramatically as a party and could offer something important to the political dialogue. It would be a shame if they became the party of street protests instead of the responsible leftist alternative they could be.

Posted by: Goyo | July 13, 2006 01:48 PM

TG

I don't claim, like many people on the right, to have the absolute truth about everything. I present my arguments and anybody can show me wrong. I used the Fox example to illustrate the double standard of some people: if Fox and sympathizers demonstrated against the election in Guanajuato, he was defending democracy; If AMLO and his followers demonstrate, they are disturbing peace, following an irrational leader. Is this fair mindedness? I like your admission that abuse has no color. But reading again the note that you posted, I fail to see how anybody abused anybody else. One can be fervent catholic and a PRD sympathizer, if one so wishes.

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 01:48 PM

P

Tu contribucion no solo no es divertida, sino tampoco ilustrativa. Lo que los simpatizantes de la derecha se rehusan a admitir es que, hasta el momento, AMLO y la coalicion se han conducido dentro de la ley. Italia gano de acuerdo con las reglas. El partido (la eleccion presidencial) aun no termina...

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 01:52 PM

PG:

Here we go again. The opening of all ballot packages per se is not grounds for the annulment of the election.

Goyo,

Among the opponents of AMLO who come to this forum, you are one of the least fanatic. I just want to let you know that I believe we are beyond our sympaties for one or the other candidate. What we are talking about here is the transparency, the legitimacy of the process. I, for one, won't have any reason to deny Calderon the triumph, if a full vote recount, in the presence of all suitable observers, shows this to be true. Is there something simpler than that?

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 02:08 PM

Pasilla, you are messing up your quotes. "La jornada is behind all these cocaine writers" "But I hate nobody". Two posters. not one. Check your facts.

La Jornada is certainly not a good example of unbiased, non partisan journalism. It is a psuedo communist rag, and anyone who reads it should filter it through that light.

You said this:
Lo que los simpatizantes de la derecha se rehusan a admitir es que, hasta el momento, AMLO y la coalicion se han conducido dentro de la ley.
You are right. HASTA EL MOMENTO. The threats coming out from AMLO's camp to not recognize the decision of the TRIFE, and the probable fact that they will not recognize a recount either, if it goes against them. Hasta el momento, this has not happened. Because TRIFE has not decided. But any reasonable observer would have to assume that, as soon as the law goes against AMLO, he will stop acting within it.
It is like a mugger who menaces someone to give him money. Until he actually sticks a knife in that person, it could be argued that he is operating "within the law". Reasonable people, however, know better.

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 13, 2006 03:01 PM

I think that this space is a great place to observe differents opinions.

I just would like to mention a few comments:

The left in Mexico has not promoted anti-semitism. To the contrary, that ideology has been defended by the Catholic Church. In fact, some orthodox catholics in government are anti-semite: Secretario de Governación Carlos Abascal. His father was a famous sinarquista (almost the sinonimous of Fascist, Falangista or Nazi in Mexico). There are lots of documents that show that anti-semite and anti-mason ideology of conservative catholics in Mexico.

Some sinarquistas were educated in fascists schools in Roma. It´s a historical fact. We may remember the association between catholic church and Hitler and Mussollini during second world war (that´s why the Pope John Paul II apologized for that political decision).

Now, the coalition between some semitic elites and catholic conservatives in Mexico, is understood in terms of class coalition, but in the long run they may have some political troubles, as in America Bush (a Methodist) and Catholic Church has been coflicted.

Even in Argentina, Catholic antisemitic elites have been associated with fascist militia. Today there are some questions about the paper played by these antesemitic sector in the making of the terrorist attack to the Israel´s embassy in that country.

Mexico`s antisemitism has been promoted by catholic church (to be explicit, by his conservative, and dominant wing; maybe jesuits are excluded of that kind of idelology). Not by the left. And Catholic church promotes PAN and his catholic candidate: Felipe del Sagrado Corazón de Jesús Calderón Hinojosa, his complete name.

Please, answer with arguments, no with myths.

Posted by: Gorgojín | July 13, 2006 03:10 PM

And the media show continues.

Arremete AMLO contra spots de empresas

El perredista señaló específicamente a los empresarios Gastón Azcárraga, Claudio X. González y Roberto Hernández de operar en su contra

Grupo Reforma


Ciudad de México (13 julio 2006).- Andrés Manuel López Obrador acusó hoy a empresas privadas de apoyar al candidato del PAN, Felipe Calderón, a través de spots difundidos en la televisión durante la campaña presidencial.

En su cuarta conferencia de prensa consecutiva, López Obrador afirmó que parte del fraude electoral del que fue víctima se operó a través de los mensajes difundidos por empresas como Jumex y Sabritas y el Consejo Coordinador Empresarial.

Durante la conferencia, el perredista difundió una serie de spots con los que presuntamente estas empresas apoyaron la campaña del candidato panista.

El político tabasqueño acusó al Instituto Federal Electoral de no haber actuado para impedir esta presunta campaña en su contra.

"Sobre esto el IFE nunca actuó, nunca... si lo hizo, lo hizo ya cuando el daño estaba hecho", sentenció.

Como prueba, López Obrador presentó los spots que el Consejo Coordinador Empresarial difundió para promover el voto razonado y en favor de la continuidad económica del País.

Asimismo, presentó un spot a través del cual, según él, la empresa Sabritas incitó el voto en favor de "Las manos limpias" de Felipe Calderón.

El perredista señaló específicamente a empresarios como Gastón Azcárraga, Roberto Hernández y Claudio X. González de encabezar la ofensiva en su contra.

"Gastón Azcárraga fue el que se quedó con Mexicana de Aviación en este sexenio, fue primero apoyador de Fox en el 2000 de los Amigos de Fox.

"Luego este señor se convierte en apoyador de Felipe Calderón y es el presidente del Consejo Coordinador Empresarial (sic) o una organización de esas", señaló.

También presentó uno de los spots que difundió Víctor González Torres, en el que "El Doctor Simi" lo acusa de no combatir la corrupción y de representar una izquierda radical.

López Obrador arremetió contra el candidato del PAN a la Jefatura de Gobierno del Distrito Federal, Demetrio Sodi, a quien acusó de exceder los límites de gastos de campaña con sus spots televisivos.


Posted by: TG | July 13, 2006 04:14 PM

From todays's Jornada ("unbiased and nonpartison Mexican newspaper")

Convoca UNT a reunión de presidencia colegiada para definir su postura
Redacción

13/07/2006 14:18


México. La Unión Nacional de Trabajadores (UNT) convocará a una reunión de todos sus agremiados para definir su postura al llamado a la movilización que formuló la coalición Por el bien de todos para esclarecer el resultado de la elección presidencial.

La convocatoria obedece a que gremios como el de los trabajadores de la UNAM y los telefonistas exponen que no participarán como sindicato por razones estatutarias, mientras que el sindicato del IMSS, de tranviarios y otros, postulan que debe haber una participación colectiva.

En conferencia de prensa, Roberto Vega Galina, dirigente de los trabajadores del IMSS, y Benito Baena, de los tranviarios, informaron que convocarán de manera urgente para que se fije en definitiva la posición que asumirá la UNT en torno a la elección presidencial.

Por su parte, los dirigentes de la Unión Nacional de Trabajadores Agrícolas y de la Central Campesina Cardenista, Alvaro López Ríos y Max Correa, consideraron que la situación es bastante grave, y el primero de ellos dijo que se corre el riesgo de que "la sangre llegue al río".

This last sentence reads to me like a threat.

Posted by: TG | July 13, 2006 04:30 PM

Thank you Gorgojin for your enligthment!!, but we must also add that the Mexican government was one of the most important germanophiles, along with the Argentinean and Brazilian governments during the run-up to WWII, and it was until the advent of Lazaro Cardenas that the tendency was stopped. The Catholic Church still has a strong grip over Mexicans and it would be interesting if someone can inform us about the role priests played during the campaign and which candidate they supported. I would be amazed to fin out that Norberto Rivera, the Mexican Cardinal, supported Lopez Obrador. The Mexican rightwingers are a strange combination of fervient, I would say fanatical, catholics, imbued with the cando attitude of an Amway recruiter, the iliterate optimism of catechism students being prepared for first communion all fed with the empty banter of Televisa and TV Azteca news anchor. Reading the posts from emptyboxes and Jerry Bourbon I'm reminded of my times as foreign correspondent in Mexico when the elite was distracted by the urban myth that children were being kidnapped in a matter of seconds, almos magically, by satanic cults. The same magical thinking permeates their comments now.

Posted by: El Blind Ve | July 13, 2006 04:37 PM

To complement my opinion above:

I recognize that La Jornada is not an independent diary, but there is not independent press in Mexico (I mean those with national coverage). All of them are right or left. It´s not like America, for example The Washington Post.

But it´s a sophism to adscribe anti-semitism to the left. That´s not true.


Posted by: Gorgojín | July 13, 2006 04:40 PM

gorgojin:

That the Catholics practiced anti-semitism no doubt about it. But the advancement of communism and with it, atheism and relativism, in the fifties and sixties and until today, where a left wing party governs a third of the country and specially it largest city, has made things change a little. It has brought these Catholics and Jewish together on some issues where they unite their lobbying forces to advance a common agenda.
In the last few decades, there has been a great deal of Arab inmigration to Latin-America, to all countries in general but particularly to Colombia, Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil. Some also have come to Mexico. The numbers are staggering and have grown ever more as they have build their own communities in freedom. But the children of these peoples in latin-america, when put to choose between Right and Left, have usually gone to the left, bringing with them their deep anti-semitic upbringing and the Latin-American left has also taken the liberation of palestina as a principle of faith, pushing their governments to take side with the palestinians in the conflict.
You can simply see this everytime there is a UN condemnation of Israel attacks to the west bank.
Some financing for the September 11 operations has been said to have come from SouthAmerica.
This factor of the ideological basis of the left has united Catholics and Jewish more than ever.
The left takes on catholics every time it sees fit. It is one of their punching bags.
They take on the palestinian issue with one perspective.
Chavez has strenghtend ties with Iran and other Arab nations. Lula has done the same.
It is only natural that there have been reaccomodations in the religious arena. Both Catholic and Jewish have found common grounds and they respect each other. Something like this is also happening in Europe due to the advancement of Islamic Fundamentalism.
I am Catholic, and very proud of it. But I see many people today are embarrassed to recognize they are catholic. Why? Because of intolerance coming from the left. In Mexico is sintomatic. The left and the Catholic church are on opposite bands. The first favors abortion the second one opposses it, and there are many differences. But to the left has also tried to makes believe that they are more modern that us and that is far from true. It does not matter whether you are catholic or not to be a professional and to be open minded and accept other ways of life or new ideas. That has nothing to do with it. Even though many writers from UNAM have tried to brain wash people in Mexico, Many of us continue voting for a right wing party. And look at the difference. PAN, Felipe Calderon is 43, his staff mostly young professionals of about 35 years old. PRD, AMLO 53, his staff are all in the 50's. Who is the progressive party?

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 05:03 PM

Pasilla-- I agree that it would be better, for Calderon and his people especially, if this could be resolved through a complete recount. But who would do the count? Why would the new counters be considered more reliable than the ones who did it the first time? There could be international observers-- but there were for the first process on July second and they said all went well. In fact, the European Union reps said it was "exemplary."

I think it is clear that if a recount is done, "voto-por-voto, casilla-por-casilla," and AMLO still comes out losing, he will claim there was another fraud or that his own representatives at the count were bribed or that Fox rode in on a horse and took away his votes. This is the problem I see-- that this election will never be over as long as the count goes against AMLO. He will accept victory or nothing.

Posted by: Goyo | July 13, 2006 05:11 PM

To emphasize: We in Mexico need to read most of national newspapers in order to construct a certain idea of what´s going on.

But we need all of them, and we cannot discredit an important one like La Jornada or Proceso.

When I say that La Jornada is not Independent, I don´t mean that they lie. They present selected information, that others diaries don´t.

That´s a big problem in Mexico, and now it is reflected in the tremeondous socio-political division we are suffering.

Those diaries that identify themselves as independent (Reforma, El Universal, etc), they finally are unmasked by the social reality.

Well, I would like to emphasize also that there are many lefts in Mexico. There are more radical lefts than AMLO, which is not a radical one as Calderón pictures him.

Also there are many rights: catholic, semites, lebanese, masonery, etc.

Inside PAN there are factions too: two or three months ago, the Maquío Clouthier´s daughter broked with the ultra-right wing represented by Calderón and Ramírez Acuña. She sayed they betraid the democratic principles of the party.

Mexico is not USA. We need to know a lot of this country, in order to judge.

Posted by: Gorgojín | July 13, 2006 05:28 PM

Gorgojín: I agree with you.

Some newspapers are going to be partisan, some are non-partisan. Reforma for example, originated in Monterrey where it is still called El Norte, and this newspaper separated its editor's department from it administration department several decades ago. You read Monsivais and enjoy him, even though I scorn him so much in these and other forums, and I also read Silva-Herzog, Castañeda, Canales, Sarmiento and Carmen Aristegui or Denisse Dresser. So you see, there is a lot to choose from there and it is most enlightening.

The problem is not the opinion however. The problem comes when they say lies and that is where la jornada and proceso come in. The lie, they ommit and edit to present facts so that is serves their political agenda.
I have no sympathy for AMLO, I believe he is entitled to go to the TRIFE and to fight legally to get the presidency, on the basis of such little diference I and anybody in the world would do the same.
Problem is, he lies when he acusses IFE of fraud, and not only he lies but he fabricates evidences also.
None of these generate sympaties among the population. He should concentrate on providing the evidence and play fair.
Our IFE is a transparent and honest institution. Its counselors are honest people chosen by all parties present at the IFE, if the PRD walked away before the selection of Ugalde, that is no excuse to blame him for his defeat. In any case, it is silly to think they will commit fraud and come up with such little difference between PAN and PRD. And then there are the other two elections, the congress and the senate, where the PRD has no problem at all. How come those other two election were clean and transparent? Because PRD got good results.
AMLO has lied to us from the very first moment he knew he had lost and La Jornada played his game and they write some terrible stories about Ugalde.
la jornada and proceso have no respect for democracy for they have knowingly follow and repeat without questioning and verification, the lies of PRD.
And yes. They are Anti-Semitic and Anti-American also and I challenge any of you to make a little search, just type a Israel or Septiembre 11 in the search box and you will see what I mean.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 05:53 PM

Goyo: It is a good point about the recount.

Plus I believe a recount will presuposse a strategy because the parties know the districts where their vote was high and those where it was low. So they will have all kinds of trickeries to try to eliminate those votes or casillas or even entire districts where the voting was not favorable to them.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 05:56 PM

emptyboxes:

Catholics are a plural religion, in the sense that there are different visions about theology: since the "Concilio Vaticano II" (Vaticano Council II?)the preference for the poors promoted a great change in catholic church actions.

To resume: in the south of Mexico, as in south america, there are a lot of catholics wich care for poor people. Liberation Theology is a catholic branch.

In fact, I am sure that most of perredistas are catholic people (maybe not the majoriyt of their leaders, but of course most or their followers are catholic or protestant - christian people). The difference is that the right wing or the church, which is the dominant elite inside catholicism, has promoted the vote for PAN.

Jesuits, Dominicos (St. Domingo´s franciscans) and Maristas are catholic groups, and many of them promotes liberation theology. That is why it´s difficult to say that the complete church is against AMLO.

There are also catholic women in favor of abortion under certain circumstances. I will not judge if they are wrong or right, but they identify as Catholic.

I see elites union in Mexico, not as a front against disneyland´s picture of red atheism, but as a high class union.

It´s not a religious battle. It
is a political one.

And, come on, Chavez has nothing to do with AMLO... wow, disneyland´s fantasy in the minds of many...

Posted by: | July 13, 2006 05:57 PM

Gorgojin:

If by "ultra right wing" you mean being opposed to mesianic populist, then I am. If you mean not being terrified of globalization, but rather recognizing that it is not going away and must be dealt with, then I am. If you mean believing that elections have to produce, sooner or later a winner, and that losers have to recognize their loss, then I am.

I have never met an anti-semitic PANista, but have read plenty of anti-semitic crap in La Jornada. I have NEVER met a human being who chose the name he was born with, not even Felipe de Jesus whatever Calderon. His parents named him, not him. I nave never believed in religious tests for governance. I believe that a Catholic or a non Catholic can govern equally well or poorly. I do not believe in disqualifying someone's opinion just because of his religion, or the fact that he is a priest. If all of this is "ultra right wing", then God help us all.

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 13, 2006 05:58 PM

the messege above is mine.

Posted by: Gorgojín | July 13, 2006 05:58 PM

I am a left leaning liberal, yet i am totally turned off by Lopez Obradors brand of politics, its time for Mexico to realize that you can be a liberal and NOT like protectionism, populism, and communism.

Posted by: Jesse | July 13, 2006 06:19 PM

Why is it difficult for people to simply recognize that PAN has the right to win elections?
All these analists from Mexico City who advocated and promoted AMLO can't simply digest the fact that there are many Mexicans do not believe in their socialist agenda. People like Lorenzo Meyer and Julio Hernandez are still trying to find some cocaine conspiracy from the right. They are so dogmatic they are not able to see the voters in the North of Mexico did not like their candidate and his ideas.

Another recount? Why? We already counted the votes. Now AMLO and these frustrated apologists are calling on a vote-by-vote recount. Well, if they did not believe the first count why should we believe they will accept the second.

This fellow AMLO is crook. First he asked the IFE to open all ballots even before the counting was finished. Then he is demanding the TRIFE to open them. Nobody, Nobody can't open all ballots undiscriminately and without sustented and legal justification. That is the law. What AMLO wants if for the authorities to open them and once they have open them he and his lawyers will call on the constitution and nullify the election and call for another election. Both the IFE and PAN have been very smart by not listening to his strident demands.

What a crook. He lost and he knew it the very first night of the elections. because that is the way it works. And he has already lied so much and come up with all kinds of baseless allegations.
I am sorry for him.
Felipe beat him real good in the campaign.
Felipe beat him in the elections.
Felipe is beating him in the post-election.

Posted by: emtyboxes | July 13, 2006 06:54 PM

One of the reasons that Calderon does not want a recount is that he does not think AMLO will accept the resutlts if it does not go in the PRD's favor. But, of course, he will expect Calderon to accept the results if it does go in his favor.

I have no problems with either a partial or total recount, AS LONG AS both candidates go on record publicly, before counting begins, that they will accept the results, and that whoever loses will drop this, and not whine about how "empresarios", the church, Fox, or little green men in spaceships made the election "unfair".

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 13, 2006 07:16 PM

Right-wing mexicans can be incredibly funny in their descriptions of mexican society, mexican politcs or the 2006 campaign and electoral process. What is it with you people? What do you find so repulsive in the rest of the population? Why do you bottle-up so much fear, paranoia and hatred towards the left movement?
Let's get serious for a moment and try to listen to the arguments of your adversaries for once.
Let's not precipitate to any rash conclusions. According to the Cofipe (electoral law) the process is not yet finished. If López Obrador sustains enough evidence to challenge the process (and believe me, as an independent observer of the act recount on district 23 in Coyoacán, I believe he has), well then, good for him. He's in his own right, according to the Law.
Also, the Constitution grants him the right to hold peaceful demonstrations.

For those who still recall the year 1991, you must remember that Vicente Fox, after losing the Guanajuato governorship declared that he was prepared to "rally the people and assault Los Pinos if necessary". Back then, people applauded that valiant gesture. That same year, in Congress, a young deputy by the name of Felipe Calderón challenged the ruling party arguing that "although there were no widespread fraud allegations that could change the outcome of the elections, fraud was fraud, no matter how minuscule. The electoral authorities were compelled by ethics to revise the whole process for the sake of certainty".

I recommend you to read an op-ed:
"Miedo a México" by Denise Dresser
on the following link:

http://www.laopinion.com/editorial/artopinion.html?rkey=00000000000000101640

Posted by: fco. | July 13, 2006 07:28 PM

You cannot compare the 1991 elections with today and it only goes to show that right-wings have fought for democracy too.
In 1991 there were hundreds of thousands of allegations and many international institutions including countries in Europe and Canada and the United States denounced the fraudulent elections.
By the way, Camacho Solis and Monreal could probably tell us what happened with the votes in those elections.
Denise Dresser is patetic, her points of view are terribly compromised by her socialist dreams, the article you mentioned is not intelligent analisis but a mere apology of AMLO.

You state we find the rest of the population. What population? The mayority voted for Felipe Calderon.
And the other big part that voted for AMLO is probably regretting it so much I feel sorry for them.
AMLO lost the election and is losing the fight in the courts as we speak. I don't know what you observed. I know what the European Union observers have said and they said it was clean and fair. Same for the United Nations, they came on defense of IFE just a few days and asked AMLO to present evidences if he has any.

This is a different time and the vast mayority of Mexicans don't like these silly demonstrations everybody knows are far from being spontanous. They pay them to go. There are legal ways but you have to have solid evidence of fraud. That is not the case because AMLO and PRD are impugnating the results and not the process itself. In the fever of the campaign they lost perspective. They had it won back in January, but they made many errors and also did not prepare for very day. Less than 50 percent of Casillas had PRD representatives. What happened was that this Camacho spent too much time with the top-less girls the night before and on election day he was hang-over. I saw him. I never lie.
The thing is, PAN is getting lots of material for the next mid-term elections. There are going to be plenty of videos starring AMLO in front of hordes of acarreados. PRD is risking a lot here.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 08:01 PM

That's why you guys are so brainwashed. Ever since those communists from Cuba came up with their so called "compromised artists and intellectuals" what do we get? People like Silvio Rodrigues who sign praises to disgusting dictators like Castro. Denise, Ciro Gomez, Raymundo Riva-palacios, Lorenzo Meyer, monsivais, granados chapa all of them very compromised by the special interest groups they belong to. They are all in the DF Government payroll or budget. A museum here, a gallery overthere, a new book sponsored by the DF Government who promotes literature, of course. This is the problem with these poor leftist pseudo-intellectuals. And get it. PAN won in 2000, We won again in 2006 and AMLO will be interned in a mental institution, the PRD and PRD officials are now discussing the details, but this is secret stuff please don't tell anyone.
And we wil win again in 2012.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 08:26 PM

emptyboxes:
I'm sure you never lie but, wow, you sure are good at exagerating. You claim that the majority of the population voted for Calderón. Reading your previous interventions, it appears you assume that those who voted for Madrazo, Patricia and Campa also voted for Calderón.
Get real. The results were practically tied.
Denise Dresser, a socialist? Wooow!!!
You should get to know her better. She is as far from being a socialist or an AMLO supporter as any person I've ever known.

As for the TRIFE and AMLO's evidence, be patient. In due time all of us will come to know if it was sustainable or not. However, allow the court to decide.

Acarreados... That's a strong word. Don't call a person an acarreado unless you have evidence to support your claim. I, for one, speak for 500 people that were at the Zocalo last Saturday and I promise you, we didn't get a single cent richer.

You say the PRD and the left have lost perspective. I don't think that is the case. However, to regain your own neutral perspective of the process, I suggest to you to read every single article of the Cofipe law and memorize it by heart. Also, get a hold of the 41st article of the Constitution. Then, after you're done, let us continue this interesting debate. If you can find proof about the PRD sabotaging the elections in any of those articles I'll rest my case and shut up.

Posted by: fco. | July 13, 2006 08:36 PM

I forgot answering one of your arguments.
Nobody questions the role of the center-right in the process of consolidating democracy in the country.

From Gómez-Morín in the 30's, Francisco Maquío Clouthier in the 80's, Vicente Fox himself in 1991 and 2000.

However, after those brilliant historical moments, the center-right in power has come to mimic the conduct of the party in power they once tried to oust.
That contradiction was what I tried to show with the declarations of Vicente Fox and Felipe Calderón in 1991. Their conduct at present is quite contrasting with the principles they withheld in the past.

Posted by: fco. | July 13, 2006 08:52 PM

emptyboxes:

Anybody has the right of making a fool of him or herself. But your rantings are really amazing. You believe that just because you make an allegation it becomes the truth. In some instances you write opinions that are obviously false, even to yourself, if you stop to analyze what you are mindlessly writing. For example, your assertion that the majority of people voted for Calderon. Not so. Around 35% of the about 60% of the people of voting age who voted did. This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a majority. The rest is just a series of unsubstantiated allegations. How do you know that AMLO is losing in court? What is the majority who dislikes demonstrations? How do you know that everybody who demonstrates gets paid to do it? Denise Dresser is pathetic. That's just your opinion. If you think so, why don't you rebut her assertions with smart, informed arguments, instead of name-calling? You accuse people of all sort of sins, offering no proof of the veracity of your imputations. With this babbling you not only disgrace yourself, but the cause you follow.

Posted by: pasilla | July 13, 2006 08:55 PM

Bourbon: please cite the anti-semite articles of La Jornada. I would like to read them carefully, and to complain whith them if they are promoting such a negative ideology. Mexican laws prohibit such propaganda.

I guess that neither PAN, PRD, or PRI are a homogenous group. They are composed of different sub-groups.

So if Calderón is catholic (by his own words; he also has used cahtolic simbolism), that does not mean that those who defend him must be catholic too.

There are many mixed interests, and no single xenophobical ideology pervails, because there are too many actors with different religious and ethnic identities interested in his project.

A sectarian and orthodox group is backing Calderón. That is true and their origins are "sinarquistas". But that group is not allone, there are many sectors in the game. So, some jews elites may join orthodox catholic sectors, even if these catholics have a public antisemite past.

During world war II the catholic church spread antisemite idelology. When USA and soviets won, their ideology were conducted by clandestine circles. But today, in many public religous processions, we can hear expressions like "the jews were those who killed Jesus..."

The same is true for Coalición por el Bien de Todos o de México. Different groups, no single believe or religion.

I repeat: the battle is political, not religous or ethnic.

And I think that some big-fishes back AMLO. Not everybody in the high class is with Calderón. Most of them, Yes, but not all of them.

Some people of the radical left wing have criticized AMLO. For example, Subcomandante Marcos is against him. Marcos does not believe in oficial democracy.

It´s not a single picture, bads against goods. And It is urgent to find a civilize solution.




Posted by: | July 13, 2006 09:09 PM

I asked Bourbon about La Jornada´s articles...

Posted by: Gorgojín | July 13, 2006 09:10 PM

Gorgojin

Here is one for you. URL and title
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2002/05/03/033a1mun.php?origen=opinion.html
Jenin: ¿Auschwitz o el gueto de Varsovia?

Apparently the Jews in Israel are proto-nazis, and their army in Jenin acted like the SS. (Remember, no massacre was proven in Jenin.)

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 13, 2006 09:21 PM

There you go. That's what I am talking about. Now La Jornada and proceso both practice this kind of anti-semitism. But when you get to Anti-Americanism, it really gets ugly. They really hate American democratic values and principles and they deny any American contributions to mankind, it gets really bad as you read from these crooks. Here is a little example:

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2002/09/11/028n1mun.php?origen=index.html

Problem is, you get this stuff at Proceso magazine the same.

They are Anti-semitic, Anti-American.

Oh but guess what? If you type something like FIDEL CASTRO, they love the man, every single article I found, no exceptions, and remember I am like AMLO, I never lie, I always say the truth, I am a democrat. Anyways. Every single article I found on Fidel Castro was all very nice and positive and worshiping of this disgusting dictator.
In general this is the way the left is down in Mexico city. If you simply stop at any corner and ask any simple fellow Mexican there about the palestinian issue, he will tell you that the israelis are the nazis and that the poor and defenseless palestinian are only the victims,bla, bla, bla. People like Lorenzo Meyer or Denise or Granados or Monsivais are only spreading hate. If you ask any Mexican from Mexico city about the September 11 attacks they will quickly tell you that the Americans had it coming, that they deserved it. In a recent Soccer game about one or two years ago in Guadalajara, the people started singing OSAMA! OSAMA!
And this is only now, every day more and more graduates from UNAM are coming out brainwashed by communist, marxist anti-semitic and anti-american radical thinking respectable professors there.
All kinds of communist militant groups populate in the UNAM, the university itself is a vulcano of violence ready to burst. One simple statement from Juan Ramon in favor of Felipe Calderon and the whole UNAM will burn down to pieces.
This is the kind of hate you get with the left in Latin-America. Naive Americans sometimes fail to see it. They think of AMLO as some kind of tropical bill clinton. But he is far from that.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 09:49 PM

Oh please, the whole jewish-catholic, nazi-fascist, left-right wing discussion is total bs.

The ones who are saying that the PAN or the mexican right wing is dominated by fanatical catholics please think about this: nearly 90% of the population of this country declare themselves to be catholics. Out of all the catholics in the country, only 20% consider themselves observants of their religion. The other 80% only go to church when a relative is getting married or died or when El Tri is playing and that's all. It is beyond stupid to believe that the Catholic Church has an actual influence in people's political views when they can't even convince them to go to church every sunday or to stay celibate till marriage. I can almost bet that a lot of the people who voted for Calderón are either atheists or non observant catholics. And I can also bet, that there are a lot of fanatical catholics that voted for Obrador. Please, do not mistake catholics for conservatives and viceversa, they are not the same thing.

The convining power of the Catholic church, and religions in general, in this country is overrated.

Another example? The mexican jewish community. 70% of the money for the remodelation of the Centro Histórico came from the jewish community, not form the government of the DF. Claudia Sheinbaum said it herself on Proceso. And parts of the jewish community have actively supported AMLO through his campaign. However, David Korenfeld, the former municipal presdient of Huixquilucan, where a very large part of the jewish community lives, was from the PRI. The PRI still holds a tight grip on that mucicipality. And there is also a part of the jewish community that has supported, from day 1, the PAN and Calderon. The jewish community doesn't vote uniformely.

The conclusion is: religions, I'll say, rarely determine if you tend to vote for the left or for the right. What drives your vote are your personal interests and nothing more.

Posted by: bunburina | July 13, 2006 11:01 PM

bunburina: Thanks for setting the record straight. People join political movements and they come from all walks of life.
We live in an age of information, and disinformation too. Some newspapers report events as they happen and have certain rules of semantic and language usage that obligates their journalist to be unbiased. Reforma works in that way for example, and they get labeled as right wing. In a recent program, they were discussing some affair about Demetrio Sodi's properties that had appeared in Reforma. Demetrio Called the program, he said in the program that Reforma's journalist had called him the night before to get his side of the story. The people in this program were very surprised to learn that a newspaper in Mexico would do such a thing. Because the rule in most Mexican newspapers is to publish first and get the other's side of the story later.
I have read Proceso and La Jornada as part of my follow-up of the election process. In general, la jornada and proceso were so predictably one sided all the time. A look at the cartoons in both papers speaks volumens of their partisanship. I get really shock by their dogmatism. El Universal, Reforma, Excelsior, are very fair for the most part. Although in general, leftist analists seem to predominate.
I believe this election was about responsability. Only 2 weeks before the elections, Felipe Calderon said the race was tight and that he was going to win by one million votes, that is 2 percent. But his statement was two-fold, he was also telling us that he could lose by 2 points too. That the coin was in the air and that we should go and vote.
For 2 or 3 months, AMLO continually repeated that he had a 10 percent points head in a secret poll he never disclose. I would like to think he said this because of strategy, But the problem is, his most dedicated followers can't to this day digest the defeat, they cannot believe it. And I believe he cannot either. The easiest way is to blame the IFE and cry fraud. In this way the group around him, that controls him, are blameless. It is getting worse because they are begining to show signs of intolerance. When somebody congratulates Felipe Calderon, they get angry.
They could save themselves a lot of wasted time and they could also save their party from collapsing. Elections are coming soon in some parts of the country. The general public did not like these false accusations of fraud.
The PRD is doom to fail in the next elections and they will have a hard time to recover. I am sorry for them. Even though I do not believe in their leftist ideology, I recognize they are necessary in the political and social balance and in the struggle to make Mexico a better country.
But they have to get their act together. They need to build a governing body representing all sectors of the party to take decisions. They cannot depend on one man decisions anymore.

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 13, 2006 11:43 PM

Very interesting article on what has been happening this week.

Videos, Doubts, and a Backlash in Mexico Vote

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/world/americas/14mexico.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1152849600&en=8ecc6dde4cb2527d&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin

Posted by: emptyboxes | July 14, 2006 12:15 AM

emptyboxes:
I see you continue with your verborrea at such late hours.
Tell me, have you read the 41st article of the Constitution and the Cofipe Law yet or were you just waiting for me to log off?

Posted by: fco. | July 14, 2006 01:41 AM

Have you guys seen what is happening with amlo?
He is going nuts, every single day he has come out on a strident campaign to blame everybody for his defeat. The guy is really losing it. One day he calls the president a traitor of democracy, another day Felipe is a pelele, another day the IFE is a delincuent, his own party representatives are taking offenses as they come out of his reckless mouth yesterday he said the whole process was very dirty. The accusations agaisnt everybody get all mixed up with an I-am-the-victim attitude.
By the way, I have never seen him calm or clever, he has always been like that, but the scorny smile has turned into frustrating smile. This is a time to be silent and to let the judges do their work, they have a lot work to do and cannot be put into this kind of presure. But amlo's strategy is totally the opposite, He and his staff are going around accusing and blaming everybody and now they want to blackmail the TRIFE with the prospect of social instability.
What? Are they going to pay the acarreados to create social instability? That is going to be very expensive. God save us from these gang of crooks and their histerical leader.

Posted by: emtyboxes | July 14, 2006 07:45 AM

It is fair to say a Catholic could find good reasons for supporting the PAN or the PRD. Catholics are socially conservative, opposed to abortion and gay marriage. I'm not sure what the PAN says about those things but parties on the right are less likely to support them. However, AMLO's calls the aid the poor are likely to appeal to Catholics who support government efforts to fight poverty.

The Wall Street Journal has had some of the best coverage of the Mexican election in English (no offense to the Post). They reported yesterday that AMLO's appeal to the electoral court will ask the election be annulled.

Does anyone know of any Spanish language (preferably Mexican) forums where the controversy is being discussed?

Posted by: RC | July 14, 2006 09:17 AM

RC

Tijuana's main newspaper, Frontera, (www.frontera.info) has one, but it is almost entirely people insulting each other, even more than here.

But, the insults are in Spanish.

Posted by: Jerry Bourbon | July 14, 2006 10:17 AM

"Right-wing mexicans can be incredibly funny in their descriptions of mexican society, mexican politcs or the 2006 campaign and electoral process. What is it with you people? What do you find so repulsive in the rest of the population? Why do you bottle-up so much fear, paranoia and hatred towards the left movement?"

Thats the problem, YOU want to lump togheter our dislike of the Mexican left with the poor segment of the population, and that is not fair. The Mexican left movement is not like Chile or Brazil, is more radical, more stupid, and this nation cannot tolerate more stupidity and unreal ideology for more years.

Posted by: Jess | July 14, 2006 11:48 AM

"I repeat: the battle is political. Not religous or ethnic".

That is the main point of my argument.

Posted by: bunburina | July 14, 2006 05:54 PM

Excuse me Bunburina,

I write your name in the wrong place.

Im agree with you: its a political battle.

Posted by: Gorgojn | July 14, 2006 05:56 PM

Stupid americans... as usual, you only see what you want to see...


www.senderodelpeje.com

Posted by: pejefan | July 16, 2006 10:13 AM

One reason people who support the PAN feel resentment toward AMLO is that he gives the false impression that all of us in the middle-class got everything handed to us. In my family's case, my wife and I both work long hours six days a week to barely make it. No one gave us anything and that's the case for the overwhelming majority of people I know in the North. There's a difference, obviously, in Northern States, like Nuevo Leon, the government and private industry groups go looking for foreign partners and investors. People have embraced modernity and globalism. In the South, it seems that many people want to live in the past, and since that doesn't lead to economic success, they expect Northerners to subsidize them. AMLO may SAY he wants to work with the business community, he may say he wants to encourage foreign investment, but no one believes him. If he became President, the smart money would leave the country.

Posted by: Greg | July 16, 2006 05:48 PM

www.juliohernandez.com.mx in this link are the reasons of the recount,at the bottom of the page you´ll find "testimonios graficas e informacion electoral" in there you´ll find dates,pick one and see for yourself if there´s a need for a recount.

Posted by: Raul Perez Espinoza | July 17, 2006 09:00 PM

Mr. Lopez is sick insane nuts nothing else. His discurses are non understandable and without clear objectives. His brain mixes everything and provides excrement nothing else. I can't believe millions trust him so blindly.

Posted by: Manuel Hernandez | August 22, 2006 12:28 AM

It makes little if no sense, but here it is: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/kaize_karasu/peje-raya.jpg

Have a good time

Posted by: Tinta Gracia | September 6, 2006 08:40 PM

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