llan Stavans completely misses the point in his analysis. AMLO spent SIX years running for president and has more name recognition than any recent politician in Mexico, yet he lost, and in a country with millions and millions of poor. The real story is that his lust for power, character defects and blinding egotism convinced many voters on the LEFT to vote against him. He should have easily won the election by a HUGE margin. Character, however, matters when selecting leadership--sometimes MORE than policies and IDEOLOGY (think Bush, here). Mexico needs a leftist government, but the left in Mexico needs a candidate that respects public institutions and who puts the needs of the people before his or her own hunger for power. If the left can't accept AMLO's defeat, it's because the left, like so many on the right, is so blinded by its ideology that it can't differentiate "lust" from a true concern for the well-being of others. Adios, AMLO. This should be your last act. Largate!

Perhaps for the country's sake, they should do a recount simply because the vote was so close and they might want to consider a run-off election between the top two finishers in the future. However, the threats of violence suggests AMLO simply can't accept the fact that plurality of Mexican voters may not have favored him. That isn't the mark of a leader with democratic credentials.

Viktor Yushchenko also repeated to the Ukrainian people that he would never accept a result in the 2004 presidential elections that has him defeated. Despite this, not one mainstream Western commentator or pundit (that is outside of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group) has challenged his so-called democratic credentials.

The most important of his plans is to join NATO and become an American satellite. This option is overwhelmingly opposed in the Ukraine. Even now, with his presidential opponent, Viktor Yanukovich, poised to become prime minister, he demands that Yanukovich vow to help bring Ukraine into NATO.

In Mexico, there's also a situation where an overwhelmingly unpopular project is being forced down the throats of the people. This is the project of the so-called Washington Consensus that is forcing people off their land and out of their workplaces and to the United States. This project's course was consolidated by the fraud of 1988. Now, with a presidential candidate with plans to derail this project, do you really believe they would let him win? Just as the US and its allies in the Ukraine was to get Ukraine to have pro-NATO leaders by hook or by crook, to get Ukraine into NATO, the US and its allies in Mexico are trying to maintain this unpopular Washington Consensus there, again by hook or by crook. So whose democratic credentials ought to be challenged? Those who challenge AMLO's and embrace Yushchenko's know who they are serving.

The comparison of the Mexican election with the Ukrainian election is timely. Westerners hailed Yushchenko's refusal to accept defeat, but clamor against Obrador for doing the same thing. Mexico has corrupt institutions. Those who cannot even fathom the possibility of widespread vote fraud there are liars, or are fooling themselves.

It's amazing that some people still believe in AMLO, everybody knows that he is crazy about power, behaving erratically and out of control, all this so called "Fraud proofs" are being fabricated by the PRD itself, it's popular knowing they are going to say and make anything to invalidate the elections, 35% of fanatical voters can't be speaking for all Mexico.

I see the usual populist conspiracy theories are being trotted out. Mexico was no panacea prior to the "Washington consensus" nor has the current government departed much from the statist model. The oil and telephone inustries remain inefficient state-owned behemoths. People have been leaving agriculture for decades and immigration to the U.S. didn't just start in the last 10 years.

There isn't a socialist utopia anywhere, nor was AMLO going to create one in Mexico.

"The comparison of the Mexican election with the Ukrainian election is timely."

No it isn't. In the Ukraine both pre-election and exit polls showed Yushchenko winning easily. The polls in Mexico showed a race within the margin of error.

Response to R:

I don't know where you live. But, you can not compare Mexico to the Ukraine or 2006 to 1988. Having lived the 1988 fraud and having participated in the 2000 elections as a balloting place official, I can tell you there is no point of comparison between either of the two cases that you mentioned. The opposition parties in Mexico, including the PRD, helped to design the electoral system of checks and balances that we currently have. The PRD is within their right, according to Mexican law, to challenge the results in the balloting places where they can document supposed irregularities. What seems unusual is the fact that they did not challenge the results the day of the election. If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places. The presidents of the balloting places are obligated by law to permit this. Curiously, the only districts that the PRD are challenging are the ones where their candidate lost by a wide margin. Our system is not perfect. But, it is a lot better than most. If AMLO said on several occasions that he would respect the determination of the IFE, why doesn't he? Is it because he didn't win? By the way, I'm one of more than 27 million Mexicans that didn't vote for him and our votes are just as important.

The Mexican left should drop this thing before it gets out of hand. They know that either AMLO lost outright or came so close that a few votes diverted the other way (as he alleges) put Calderon on top. Either way, his appeal to "the people" did not work. He could not form a consensus government with this little support. Calderon, however, can appeal to the pragmatists in the PRI and smaller parties to move forward.

If AMLO manages to claw his way into power by using his mob forces to bring Mexico to a standstill, what next? Perhaps he can get the same mob to help him change the constituition to make him president for life. He has, and will continue to do, anything for his own personel gain.

The Ukraine connection keeps popping up in these comments, presumably by the same one or two people with some ax to grind.

It is true Mr Lopez has the right to contest the results of the presidential election, he also has a right to demonstrate peacefully, he however cannot ask of the authorities to do things that are forbideen by law and then threaten with revolution if they dont do as he says.

The votes have already been counted once, all of them on election day, by randomly seleted citizens in presence of his party´s representatives, then, where there was doubt, the ballots were counted one by one again three days after.

the results keep coming out the same

Lopez has to commit to respecting the courts decision. There has to be an end line to it

To fully understand the days Mexico is living, you have to go to other places in the country, Mexico City is a stronghold of Lopez, he has a core of fanatic followers that will show up anytime to do anything, many others in Mexico City may think they won because they and everyone the know voted for him, but it will be the other way around in most cities around the country.

Lopez told many people what they wanted to hear, and he may be right in some things, his oponent Mr Calderon convinced roughly a quarter of a million more people though, enough in this democracy to be the new president

it is understandable that Mr Lopez followers are sad, they almost won, but they did not, and the people that voted for Mr Calderon have a right for their votes to be respected too.

"everybody knows that he (AMLO) is crazy about power, behaving erratically and out of control..."

Sorry, but is following the law an erratic behaviour? Can you please substantiante your allegations?

"What seems unusual is the fact that they did not challenge the results the day of the election..."

What is unusual about that? The LAW is clear regarding the suitable deadlines? They took their time in putting together the documentation. What is wrong with that?

"If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places...."

This comes time and again. Not every balloting station had a PRD representative. They couldn't note what they didn't witness.

"Curiously, the only districts that the PRD are challenging are the ones where their candidate lost by a wide margin..."

What is curious about that? The basic request to the court is to recount each and every vote. If that doesn't happen, a partial recount may give advantage to AMLO. The purpose of an election is to win it, isn't it? If this happens within the margins of the law, what's the issue?

Finally, if PAN believes that they won, fair and square, why are they contesting the election too? Is it OK for them to do it, but not for the PRD? Isn't that a double standard?

Histerics and misinformation only fuel passion. If you defame or insult somebody, don't expect a sweet smile in return.

Institutions in Mexico are bankrupt, absolutely broken. The electoral fraud started cooking when Ugalde was appointed to head the IFE. There's no way on earth that anyone the slightest familiar with Mexico, Mexicans and the Mexican political system can claim with a straight face that there were no irregularities at the polls level. That's the way electoral frauds are cooked in Mexico. You control certain polls in certain districts and you can sit down and wait for being annointed the next one. The Republicans learned from the PRI very well, just look at Ohio in 2004 and at Florida in 2000. God Bless America!!

"There's no way on earth that anyone the slightest familiar with Mexico, Mexicans and the Mexican political system can claim with a straight face that there were no irregularities at the polls level"

OF COURSE there were irregularities. With 130,000 plus polling places, it would be a miracle if there were not. But, not one shred of proof has been presented that there were SYSTEMATIC irregularities in favor of one party (the PAN). Only God knows what the PRI did in places like rural Oaxaca, ditto the PAN, and we have evidence of PRD trading of votes for food in Torreon. If the PRD had real evidence of systematic fraud, not discredited videos of six votes being moved in front of the PRD representative, why is it not being presented? Because, in all likelyhood, it does not exist.

Can Pasilla or some other perredista inform the rest of us (who are not "intelligentsia", so please use easy words) what it will take to satisify AMLO and end this. In other words, will he accept it if the courts rule against him. This is an easy question, yes or no? Will he accept the results of a manual recount, if he gets it, and it shows that he loses? Yes or no? If the answer is no, then what, exactly, does he want? And whose fault will the ensuing problems be?

Where's Jimmy Carter when we really need him? He was certainly on hand when Chavez was anointed in a far more suspect process.

Mr. Pasilla,

You state "If they had proof of the supposed irregularities they could have had them noted on the acts at the balloting places...."

This comes time and again. Not every balloting station had a PRD representative. They couldn't note what they didn't witness.

The balloting station where the president of the station found several ballots for deputies in the presidential urn did have a PRD representative present who consented and witnessed that the ballots were put into the correct urn. Why is it then that this is presented as proof of stuffing of urns? AMLO's latest version is that his party presenatives were bribed to look the other way. Now we find that even his own people are conspiring against him.

Pasilla:

I never said that AMLO is crazy. I just want him to prove what he claims. We all know that the PRI, PAN+Verde, PRD+PT+Convergencia, PANAL and to a lesser degree Alianza put their machines to work during the elections. But, that is Mexican politics. That is why everybody watches everybody else at the balloting stations. The truth is that when we have a large turnout, for whatever reason, the actual tendencies are clearer.

Correction:

I wrote Alianza. It should read Alternativa.

We are getting a bit tired of Mr. Obrador. He thinks he is still in the campaign. I am afraid he is calling or playing to the radicals of the country, which are a minority. Because nobody believes that joke about the "Asamblea Informativa" it is very easy for PAN or PRI to do exactly the same and PAN has got more money to fill the whole Zocalo 20 times with "acarreados" (poor peasents brought in large trucks who don't have any idea about the meeting but they get paid 100 pesos to assist). We, the rest of the people, the people who voted and who go to work and pay our taxes and behave as good citizens, we are getting tired of this game Mr. Obrador is playing.
All the campaign he diffamated everyone around, yesterday he presented a video, allegedly show ballot fraud, as it turned out, the same PRD representative shown in the video confirmed that they were putting the ballots correctly in the right box and they did it in representation of all party representatives and officials and with the proper legal justification from the IFE which was confirme by the same IFE later, and today, when questioned about this false video accussations he was trying to do, Mr. Obrador accussed his own PRD representative of having been bought by the opposition, that they paid her some money to let them so something bad with the ballots (even though there were very little ballots there). Not only he did not thank his poor representative who spent more than 12 hours that Sunday to defend the PRD votes but now he accusses the poor lady. It is disgusting!!

As a mexican, I did my civic duty, I voted. Over one million people, regular citizens where asked to count the votes during this past election. They all counted the votes, then if they agreed with the results, the all signed an electoral form. All partys have copies of this forms, they can do their own numbers... and they all conclude the same thing, Calderon won, the only anomaly, as AMLO calls it, is that he is not the elected president. He says that he is in favor of the mexican people, and that he is a democrat, this means, that if he lost even if it is by only one vote, he lost. The reality is that not all citizens want him for president, and the evidence is that he only got about 35% of the votes, that means, if we do the math, that the other 65% of the population voted against him. While Calderon is talking about uniting the congress, AMLO is dividing the people, causing the his few (and by few I mean less than 35% of the population) to feel hatred towards the rest of the population. Is this what mexicans want for our president? the answer is no.... the rich are not guilty for the poor, the rich are most of the time rich, beacuse they are hard working people, and they do not go accusing everybody else for their problems. No, the take action. If AMLO, is a follower to the left philosophy, then he should understand than the way for improving the lives of the poor is not by taking money form the rich, and giving it to the poor, but by improving our country's economy, so we can have more oportunity for economic growth, and as a result have an increase in jobs. AMLO follows only his own rules, he has always believed that there is a conspiracy behind him. When we was mayor for Mexico City, over one million people walked the streets, in a quiet manifastation, asking for a safer city, his response was that they were only there because there was a conspiracy behind him. But as days pass, fewer people support him, and many if they were asked to vote again, they would vote for Calderon, only so that this man, who calls himself a "rayito de esperanza" never becomes the next Mexican president.

Is very blind from you try to read about the mexican map bettwen the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their sistem model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from mexico can be America and the south it dosen matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the jop that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know theres no really a big diference bettwen the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the diference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the mexicans are waiting to leaft to be indians and became a west citizen then you dont understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont undestand why theres another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be verIs very blind from you try to read about the Mexican map between the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their system model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from Mexico can be America and the south it doesn matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the job that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know there's no really a big difference between the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the difference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the Mexicans are waiting to left to be Indians and became a west citizen then you don't understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The Indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont understand why there's another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be very boring. Don't you think?y borring. Dont you think?

Is very blind from you try to read about the Mexican map between the south (PRD) and the north (PAN). Always the people from the states fall in this kind mistakes, trying to read in their system model the best. I think the idea behind that comments is to say the north from Mexico can be America and the south it doesn matters. If you follow the steeps from your boss, sure you one day you will get the job that you want, but if you are really interest about the topic that you wrote, first then you have to see beyond your district. If you really know Mexico then you know there's no really a big difference between the north and the south, there is industry in both, maybe the difference is that from the center to the south is more rich the country. If you believe that only the Mexicans are waiting to left to be Indians and became a west citizen then you don't understand what is behind the richness from their culture. "The Indians" like you said have something more than hope to work in the industry and eat in Mac Donalds. If you think the progress is only the American society, then you wont understand why there's another choices from societies. I think a world where everybody could be an American wanna be could be very boring. Don't you think?

I'm sure that Ceci Connolly doesn't need defenders. However, it doesn't hurt if we all read carefully, before blustering. She properly atributtes the quote that somebody disliked (about Mexico's North-South divide) to James McKinley of the New York Times...

Castillo Peraza, Manuel Clouthier, Felipe Calderon and all the people in the PAN have got a long time fighting the same thugs, although now they wear a different shirt, we have been here before. The same criminals like Manuel Camacho Solis (sometimes his adversaries died of a shot in the head like Leonaldo Colosio, but we have never learned why)Muñoz Ledo, Monreal, Leonel Cota, Marcelos Ebrad, etc. All these people have one thing in common, when they were in the PRI, their enemy was always the PAN, and now in the PRD, the same thing again. But the situation has turned around, now they don't have all the repressive state they used to enjoy, the only power left for Camacho now is with the top-less girls he is famous for hiring in his parties. That's all.
And it hurts them, because they thought they had this one in their pocket already. Big blunt, many a times they laughed at him, and all the campaign, for all these months, the prd mediocre editorials and pseudo-intellectuals at La Jornada laughed and made fun of how shorty and simple Mr. Calderon is. Now they don't laugh so much anymore, now they do not picture him as the loser in the race. Their mood is down. I saw Julio Hernandez Lopez, Denise Dresser, Raymundo riva-palacios and another unknown mediocre writer wannabe at Victor's Trujillo "el cristal con que se mira" on the next day after the elections. What happened, it was like a funeral, all these months and just days before the elections these biased analists had told us reteadly that AMLO was the winner. And then they looked so sad, their faces, their eyes clearly showing they had not slept all night looking at the PREP. I felt pity for them.
Don't get any illusions my friend, amlo lost the battle and Felipe beat them up real good. These impugnation only comes to show how sick and egomaniac this fellow is I think he will need a psicologist when this whole thing is over. Perhaps Mr.Roberto Gonzales from Banamex might give him a little vacation to his resort in the Riviera Maya. Bye amlo. It was good while it lasted.

David Crowe, et al, here come the individual polling place counts!

Estarán en su página de Internet
Publicará IFE total de cómputos en casillas

MÉXICO, D.F.(SUN)

En las próximas horas, el Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE) publicará en su página de Internet todos los cómputos distritales y de entidad federativa, que van del concentrado nacional hasta cada una de las más de 130 mil casillas instaladas el 2 de julio.

La publicación pretende que la ciudadanía pueda corroborar que los resultados colocados en el exterior de cada casilla son los mismos que fueron capturados y, una vez sumados, constituyen los resultados finales de la elección.

El director ejecutivo de Capacitación Electoral y Educación Cívica del IFE, Hugo Concha, señaló lo anterior al fijar esta tarde la postura del organismo electoral sobre información difundida alrededor del proceso.
Nota Publicada: 11/7/2006 17:11 pm

As a Mexican, I believe we need a totally new government in Mexico. I neither want PRD or PAN in power. I want somebody to can bring Mexican out of poverty. I grew up during PRI rule and my family suffured greatly, unemployment, lack of food, and a good education.

Felipe Calderon won. AMLO lost. The TRIFE is a mere tramit.
So. What's for dinner?

Fantastic how some people are DEMANDING proof from Obrador, well my right wing friends, take a chill pill, they have already presented a 900 page report, so before you jump to defend your pro rich Calderon, I suggest you wait just a little longer to see what is shaping up to be a rather sophisticated scam performed by the powers that be, the desperation of Calderon to pretend that nothing is happening makes me at the very least suspicious. Ohh and by the way for those trying to put Chavez everywhere he wont not by less than 1% but rather destroyed his very rich enemies at the polls, its clear the US administration, the ruling elites in Mexico, the newspaper owners will not tolerate anything in Mexico that would actually improve the life of the poor in Mexico. What I also find interesting coming from right wingers is that you would think that since they are not particularly sympathetic to Mexicans (no matter how they try to spin it) in the US, they would welcome someone that just might improve the lives of poor people, which would then not make them so willing to cross the border.

As someone else already posted, the IFE will publicly post the results of every single "casilla", so that the people who were present can make sure that the votes they counted were made valid. PRD says that they didn't have representatives in some balloting stations, yet there is no logic in that; hundreds of thousands of people go to the Zocalo after the election, but 130,000 volunteers can't be found to go to the urns when 14 million people are his supporters........
But then again it will be a painfully slow process to recount all the votes, but I guess that would finally show the transparency of the system that had random citizens counting the votes, volunteers from each party in every ballot station, and even some international observers. I'm not assuring that there weren't any irregularities, Im just saying that it wasnt't that easy to make them, specialy in numbers that could turn an election.

But heres another thought, cheating "against" your party, and recording it, just to have evidence against the system if you loose.

Why do I have a feeling this little fellow obrador, an untutored tamale-eating farmer from South Mexico, wants to use his candidacy to start a business in the film-making industry?

I certainly don't believe in the IFE and I'm glad Lopez Obrador is challenging the results and has taken it as far as the TRIFE to settle this. Hopefully the TRIFE is not yet contaminated by the bribery like the IFE.

I live in state of Tamaulipas where corruption is everywhere and where politicians get mighty rich overnight. Proof enough of the corruption is the recorded phone conversations held between Eugenio Hernandez (governor of Tamaulipas) with Elba Esther Gordillo and Pedro Cerisola. When questioned about this, his response was that he refused to participate in Gordillo's plan. If indeed he did not give in, why did he not give higher authorities the notice in order to stop this? No matter how anyone wants to see it, this is FRAUD. As it has happened lately and reminds me of the 70's and 80's, the media in Mexico is covering up for these rotten politicians and they easily get away with murder like always. We are very used to having our local and state leaders negotiating with our votes for the benefit of a few and nothing can surprise us at this point.

The biggest problem of all is many of us are sick and tired of the system and many are willing to risk their lives for the cause. It is so disappointing to see things get worse. There is no justice here and if Calderon takes the administration in December, I am very confident we will only continue with 6 more sad years of no law, unsolved crimes and even more starvation.

I was a scrutineer in the election. The election process is very transparent and has many safeguards against vote tampering. It isn't perfect and there have been some human mistakes and lack of information from the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE), but Lopez Obrador and the PRD are taking advantage of the general population's ignorance on the election process. The Electoral High Court (TRIFE) has the power to order a full recount if there is enough evidence of irregularities, which there isn't. Lopez Obrador is placing his bets so that even if there was a full recount and he still doesn't win he will not accept the Court's final decision if it doesn't go his way.
Today he is even insulting his own party reps by saying some of them accepted bribes. This is a very pathetic and dishonest man who is driven by a blind desire for power and will not let anyone or anything stand in his way.

Problem is this fanatical people and their obsessed and irresponsible candidate. Not only has he already destroyed himself politically already but he is also destroying the very base of the PRD. I have many friends who are law-abiding citizens and are very concerned and dissapointed at the prospect of having voted for a person who wants to be our president can behave in such a lowly and irrespectable manner. I am still hoping there is someone in the PRD with some moderation left who could speak out and do something about this person who lies about videos and is blackmailing the Mexican people to accept his demands or face instability. What an irresponsible person!!

I really don´t think that Obrador would lead the country to a chaos. Not even if the TRIFE doesn´t order to count the ballots.

But we must remember Mexican history, and think about the "México Bravo" which is now loosing: the poor people of the south.

There are guerrillas expecting to gain terrain for their radical ideologies. They don´t beleive in electoral democracy.

It has been a terrible mistake by some mass media to identify Obrador with really radical left thinking.

By the other hand, it would be impossible for Obrador to mobilise masses if he losses again in a vote by vote recount.That is for sure.

Well, I woldn´t support him if the results show he looses again.

So, let´s count each ballot. If PAN legally won, they don´t have to be worry. Nobody has to be worry, because that action would legitimize their victory, if that is the case. And poor people of the south would paticipate with Calderón government, forgetting guerrillas and radical activism of the left.

To make a long histoy short, MALO (MANUEL ANDRES LOPEZ OBRADOR (did you knew he had his birth certificate doctored so it wouldnt sound like that?), has no intention of respecting any other law than his greed for power, and just like Hitlers propaganda machine, malos people are repeating a lie as many times as needed until people give up, either because they are so feed up with this bs or just because they have been fooled by his untruthfull propaganda.
Before him there was pri and a lot of street vendors but since "perdere" i mean and MALO'S PRD began ruling Mexico City, " they have multiplied hundredfold and gained control of the city street and most of this hapened during MALOS ruling mexico city, and just to elaborate; have you seen how old and decrepit the city looks?
Andres el malo por favor stop trying to break mexico, we dont need or want a lier just like you or bejarano or sheinbauns husband or meny other of your friends to help us we'd rather have someone less willing to ruin mexico just for the heck of it.

RC: The telephone industry in Mexico is not state-owned. Since Salinas government it was sold to private sector.

Francisco, you are right. TELMEX went from being an incompetent public monopoly to a slightly less incompetent private monopoly. It is owned by AMLO's buddy buddy Carlos Slim, and what do you think the chances of a PRD administration breaking it up like ATT will be?

TELMEX also hits at the heart of why Mexico does not progress like it should. Monopolies, be they private like TELMEX or to a lesser extent CEMEX, or public like the CFE (that is Luz y Fuerza for us benighted provincials), and PEMEX, or duopolies like Televisa/TVAzteca stifle competition, foster businesses with high costs and generally hold the country back. It is no accident why call centers go to India, not Mexico; calling India is cheaper. The last time I was in Argentina, it cost me less than half to call San Diego, California from Buenos Aires, where there is (real) phone competition than that call costs from my house in Tijuana, where I can SEE San Diego. Does that make sense????
Any careful reading of AMLO's beliefs show that he would do NOTHING about the monopoly problem. If he had been running Mexico in the late 80's, even TELMEX probably would not have been privatized. The PAN under Fox has been rather useless too, but at least they tried, and this time, with a near majority in congress, they may suceed in bringing actual competition and efficiency to Mexico. That will not happen if AMLO becomes president.

But, what do I know, I am not a member of the intellegentsia.

In Mexico is not clear many cuaestions about the election, some of them are:
1- fact: why the people whom have voted for felipe calderon dont support him dislike andres manuel lopez obrador?
2- fact. the publicity on tv that favored to felipe calderon used the slogan Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador es un peligro para mexico" (Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador its a dangerous for mexico) its the same propaganda used by Adolf Hitler against the jews. That propaganda in Mexico was allowed by the same electoral institute that say that the election has been the cleanest in the mexican history.
3- fact. the votes showed on the IFE's web site are not according with the physical act hanged on the walls where the people voted.

The more I watch AMLO talk, the more I read his declarations to the press and his speech last saturday, the more I'm convinced that he is a total embarrasment to any true leftist in this country. I'm not happy about another six years of a PAN government. But in the other hand, I just can not find the words to express my disappointment with the PRD, who, unfortunately, seem to be the only viable left wing party in this country. (Luckily, Patricia Mercado got her register) This country deserves a lot more that a guy like AMLO in the presidency. It is unbelievable that people are still following him. What a shame.

No otro fraude como el 88

I'm getting sick of Obrador, he appears every morning in every newspaper, on radio, on T.V., always complaining, telling lies, spreading hate, I'm not going to stand him as a president, the guy is crazy, I was reading his life, he has never worked in his entire life, he is totally unaware of how to grow a business and how to produce money by himself, he has been always living from our taxes, he has never gone outside of Mexico and doesn't know other lifestyles beside his life in Tabasco and as a politician in Mexico City, he has been living totally out of reality, I think the guy have something wrong in his head always obsessed, and I mean really obsessed! with the presidency, I hope he gets banned from political life, for life!

Jose Flores:

Everybody is entitled to his own ignorance; for example, you probably don't know that Carlos Castillo Peraza distanced from Calderon for what Castillo considered betrayal, and that he passed away without ever speaking again to his political protege. You also make a serious accusation that I'm sure you cannot prove: that Manuel Camacho had something to do with the dead of Luis Donaldo Colosio (not Leonaldo Colosio).

I can cope with ignorance. But you have joined the club of people to whom I do not grant any moral authority to speak about Mexico and the Mexicans, after your bigoted statement: "obrador, an untutored tamale-eating farmer from South Mexico..."

On the other hand if the statement "Not only has he (AMLO) already destroyed himself politically already..." is true, I fail to understand what the fuss is all about...

Pasilla: Why do you support this thugs?

Just a minute ago, Mr. Camacho Solis came on tv with Victor Trujillo and basically threatened the tribunals to do what they say otherwise the country will risk instability and political crisis.
They are all a bunch of criminals and they are blackmailing the country. I hope they have their stupid assembly with acarreados paid 70 pesos and then go back.
Now I completely agree that AMLO is a danger for Mexico.

As a middle class Mexican from the northern states, who rose from poverty to become a succesful business owner, i have to add a few things.

1.-60% of all Mexicans did NOT vote for Lopez Obrador, why is he insisting that he is defending the vote of "the people".

2.-Lopez Obrador failed to win the presidency because he completely ignored both the middle class, wich contrary to popular belief, is a growing segment of Mexico population, specially in the north.

3.-The election was fair and clean, even the PRD accepted this reality right up until the results showed Calderon was most likely the winner, it was THEN that they started to see irregularities and fraud. NOBODY else saw it, not even his own people who where present at 75% of the voting places.

4.-Obrador has consistently shown that when things don't go his way, he will start blaming anybody and anything in order to explain his shortcomings. he did it when he broke the law and was almost impeached, and he is doing it now, even goin as far as saying that the goverment bough his own people. Whats next Sr Obrador, aliens rigged the vote and beamed ballots to the alien mother ship?

5.-I have not seen one single shred of proof that the elections where robbed, nothing, nada, zip. All he has is alegations, and not much more, he knows that the Federal Election Tribunal will not accept 95% of his claims, and will eventually award Calderon the presidency, at wich point (and remember this) he will blame the tribunal for being a part of the system.

If Obrador thinks hes going to pressure his way into the presidents seat, he has something coming, 60% of us did not vote for him, we dont want him, we dont trust him, we are silent but we are not going to let this ignorant populist destroy our nation.

RC:

Sorry, but you are wrong again.

You have to study "Ley Televisa" and tell us if that law, which was implemented by PAN and Fox, would promote anti-monopoly competence, as you suppose that PAN has tried.

By the other hand, I´m partially agree with you: maybe Obrador will not finish with monopolies, but Calderón will promote them. The obviuos support from Televisa and TVAzteca is a clear evidence.

Francisco, you directed your second batch of comments on the telephone monopoly to the wrong person. I stand corrected, Telmex is no longer state-owned. However, my original point holds, statist economies are no panacea. If I thought they brought generalized prosperity, I would support them, but the evidence I see suggests they don't.

AMLO is really getting pathetic, now he is attacking his party's own representatives.

Pasilla:

Who appointed you as exclusive grantor of "moral authority" to people? How is calling someone a "tamale eater" worse than calling someone a fascist?

I think that there's been a lot of misinformation in this forum. Forgive me if I don't get everyone's names and please excuse my English.

First, as far as civil society can tell, as well as international observers and academics, IFE is a model institution. Proof of this is that IFE employees are frequently invited to overlook other countries' elections as advisors and observers, and to share their technical expertise. The IFE is constituted by citizens, and also citizens are the ones who run and certify EVERY polling place, and who count the votes and sign the certificates with the tally of votes.

Second,the so-called Ley Televisa was approved with the votes of PRD representatives and senators. Remember the famous phrase by Pablo Gómez, AFTER he had voted for the law: "Fue un error, es que no la leímos". This was repeated by Jesús Ortega, one of the leaders of López Obrador´s campaign team. These are two of the most respected members of PRD.

Third, saying something is so does not make it true. The fact that AMLO sumbited a 900 page report to the TRIFE does not grant it any veracity in and of itself. They have to actually offer proof, not just accusations.

Fourth, although I generally agree with the comments about monopolies, I don´t think either candidate has offered to break them up, so that disarms that argument. At most, AMLO has offered, albeit ambiguously, to put an end to privileges enjoyed by some sectors of the population. I say ambiguously because he always recites phrases, but he ommits to mention that presidents in the CURRENT system are not omnipotent, but rather counterbalanced by congress.

Fifth, the PAN has also engaged in a calculated PR campaign to bolster its victory, just like the PRD has engaged in one to impugn it. The difference is that thanks to his advantageous position, Calderón looks generous right now, offering to extend bridges to the opposition and to govern for everyone. We all have heard that before, but it has yet to materilize.

Sixth, PAN did engage in a mudslinging campaign. So did PRD, but they hid their hand. The comparisons they made of Calderón to Hitler, and where they painted him as having bloody hands, lacked even a modicum of truth and proportion. Some followers of both candidates are quite "passionate", to say the least. This passion leads them to see the opposition as the devil incarnate; if you want an example, just read some of the comments in this forum. As an anecdote, a friend of mine asserted, without a shadow of a doubt, that Calderón and PAN would constitute a fascist government, along the lines of the Franco regime. The other side thinks AMLO is a Castro in the making. I think both positions are ridiculous, and would be laughable if they did not have the potential to turn violent.

My personal opinion of both candidates has varied. I am, by training, by family tradition, and by cotext (I am in academia) a leftist. Five years ago, I was, albeit tenuously, conviced of AMLO´s probity and tought that he was better for the country than any other candidate visible at the time. After all, I don´t think there is anything wrong with caring for the poor and the least fortunate; I don´t think that is wrong to ask for a more just distribution of wealth (or, to say another way, that we all share in the pie). Nonetheless, I grew disillusioned with AMLO´s impertinence and flouting of the law. For those of you with a forgetful mind, I point to you that AMLO´s arguments, in many instances, reverted to "unjust laws". He once said, and I quote from memory, "I cannot obey a law that is unjust, that goes against the people". This leads me to another characteristic of his that puts me off: he has, time and time again, claim to have to will of the people with him, to only be doing what the people want, and more phrases along those lines. How does he know the will of the people, by telepathy? And the rest of the people, the ones who don´t agree with him, are they martians or what?
Another aspect of AMLO´s campaign that scared me is the return to the statist policies of the PRI years. Granted, we need to take care of the poor, but the money to do it does not come from trees. One does not need to be a specialist to find AMLO´s economic proposals problematic. How can you base your economic strategy on fighting corruption and reducing bureaucrats´s salaries? Fighting corruption should be a priority, but it cannot be the heart of my budget. For those hard-core perredistas outhere, don´t you think this sounds ridiculous, to put it mildly. And don´t even get me started with the high-speed train thing, which does not withstand even the scrutiny of a high school economics class (in Mexico, in some high schools we take economics, depending on your area of specialization, believe it or not, hehehehe). AMLO has gotten to the point where he is accusing almost all of society as being part of the conspiracy: the citizens who counted the votes, the church, tv, radio, and now even his own collaborators and observers to each polling place. Doesn´t this sound kind of paranoid to you? I could go on and on as to why I went from a cautious AMLO supporter, to a disillusioned Mexican liberal, but I think you get my point.

Of Calderón, well, he is a gray figure that has taken advantage of the few oportunities he´s had. I don´t forsee any actual modernization of social programs that would help the poor, which makes me upset. Also, as I said before, I don´t think that he will break up any monopolies. He will be, like Fox, a somewhat charismatic candidate, and a gray president. Why, you ask, am I more severe with AMLO? Simple, he was my "natural" candidate, and he was in the news everyday, so there is more to criticize.

As a last comment, my intuition tells me that it would be better for everyone if the votes were counted one by one again, that way there would be no doubt as to who won, even though apparently a full recount is not contemplated in the law (this is what I have read so far); it´s only the ballot boxes that show irregularities that can be opened. However, the other side of that coin is the legality. Are we going to flout the laws everytime that it seems "better" to do so? If we don´t like the law, let´s change it via the appropriate chanels, like congress, not when it suits us. In any event, I am already sick and tired of this, and I just want it to be over, whoever the winner is in the end.

We as Mexicans have a lot of problems. One of most important, from my perspective, is the total lack of faith in our institutions. I am not saying that there is not historical precedent that justifies it. We have lived through more than 70 years of a one party system. Through governments that passed the law under the arch, as we would say. The saddest part is that all of the opposition parties have fought for many years to construct an organism that would above all suspicion precisely because they were all represented there and the elections would be as fair as they could be considering our regional idiosyncrasies and this election, that the candidates have turned into a north vs south and "rich" vs poor spectacle, could destroy it. The system is not perfect. But, it is the system that all of the political parties agreed to work under. There are flaws. These have to be addressed by said political parties through reforms in the law. If the results are unfair and you can prove foul play, there is legal recourse to try to resolve dispute. That is the way that it was designed. Instead of campaigning for five years AMLO should have convinced his party's legislators to introduce initiatives to change the law to make it fairer.

I, personally, am not happy with the way either AMLO or Calderon and their advisors have handled this. I not really sure who pronounced himself the winner, first. The truth is I don't care. But, the other one followed and continued to escalate the rhetoric. When no one got the landslide victory that they had predicted, the only ones that acted with any semblance of civility were the other candidates who had nothing to win, including Dr. Simi.

You say that a full recount would be the best way to clear the air. Who would AMLO believe? Would he have to recount the votes personally? Who would oversee the count? Who does AMLO trust but himself? There were 41,791,322 votes emitted on Election Day. If he did it himself, it would almost 8 years nonstop @ 6 seconds/vote. Some people have suggested that we let him do it.

Roberto Mendoza:

Relax, take a deep breath! You really sound tired. I was expecting some cogent corrections to our comments in this blog. But it didn' happen. Let me comment on some of your obesrvations, if I may. Not on all, because it would take me for ever.

Before I start, I want to clarify something once again: I didn't vote for AMLO; I couldn't do it; therefore, I only defend principles, such as rational argument based on factual information.

"IFE is a model institution..." There is no perfect institution because all are made up of imperfect humans. Just a couple of points here. Mr. Ugalde, and the other council members, were elected without the participation of the PRD. Mr. Ugalde used to work at the PRI; he was recommended to the position, having no special qualifications, by Elba Esther Gordillo, who has recently being heard in a telephone conversation to advice one governor of the PRI to go "blue," (meaning to support Calderon) on election day. The IFE fumbled the handling of the election results for president big time; the PREP was a sad joke. Some of Mr. Ugalde's (school chum of Mr. Calderon, who was an honor witness in his wedding) remarks were very unfortunate, and he came short in handling questions (remember the 3 million votes missing?). Even after all this facts, we may give Mr Ugalde and the IFE the benefit of the doubt, regarding the honest handling of results; however, it is more difficult to deny some level of incompetence. Moreover, as Plutarch wisely put it: "It is not enough that the wife of Cesar is faithful; she should also APPEAR to be faithful..."

"The IFE is constituted by citizens..." Yes. Everybody above 18 years of age in Mexico is a citizen. What do you mean?

"The fact that AMLO sumbited a 900 page report to the TRIFE does not grant it any veracity..." The report is accompanied by documentation of the perceived irregularities (documents, pictures, video recordings, etc.). The court will tell if it is material or not. Let's wait an see.

"The comparisons they made of Calderón to Hitler, and where they painted him as having bloody hands, lacked even a modicum of truth and proportion..." Who are "they"? The "danger for Mexico" campaign was undoubtly paid by PAN.

"How does he know the will of the people, by telepathy?" Did you watch the big concentration in Mexico City the other day? You may want to grant him a little bit of representativity...

"Doesn´t this sound kind of paranoid to you?" Not really, after witnessing all the maneuvers that the President, PAN and some businessmen have resorted to, to stop him short of becoming President. In the face of the practice of many politicians to roll over and hide when things don't go their way, what I believe move some oponents of AMLO towards irrational behaviours is his spirited defense of his ideals. Perhaps we need more people like him.

AMLO does not have any ideals, other than the ideal of accumulating power for AMLO. A man with ideals would not claim that his own poll watchers, dedicated party members who volunteered their time, are corrupt. A man with ideals would announce his intentions regarding this election. Will AMLO accept the decision of the TRIFE? If it goes his way he will, but if not? He will not say. Will AMLO accept the result of a vote recount? Again, certainly if it goes his way (and he will demand that PAN accept it too), but if not? He will not say. These are ideals.

As to new ideas, the man has none. His political program reads like something out of the 1970's era PRI. That is progress?

Sorry again RC,

I rectify: Bourbon was the one who defended PAN as an anti-monopoly party.

I´m not agree with that appreciation.

Ever since IFE was created our elections have been each time a celebration, a civic festival, where some people lose and some people won but where we always respected the results and went back to work and look to the future. The 1997 elections were a big party with a divided congress for the first time in history and with the three main political forces well represented there. Then the 2000 presidential elections were also another big party and celebrations and none complained. Mr. Cardenas and Mr. Labastida both accepted the IFE results and congratulated the winner.
That is too much to ask from AMLO and company. Mr. Horario Duarte has made everyday a nightmare for the IFE staff with his offensive and frantic interventions eversince those numbers did not favor them. Mr. AMLO has made all kinds of offensive remarks to the IFE, The President, Felipe Calderon, his own polling representatives who worked so hard on election day and accussed officials in the governement. He has made it a nightmare for the rest of us who voted for Felipe Calderon. He has acussed the northern states of conspiring and committing fraud against him. He has shown taped conversations obtained illegally and only to probe nothing but a little conversation about electoral preferences. He has lied showing some videos and saying things that never hapened, has made scorn of European Elections Observers and Other observers, and is begining to put the markets a little nervous these days. In any international news agency, CNN, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, LeMonde,El Pais, El mundo, etc. they are all talking about Mr. Obrador's allegations as they put it because none of these international newspapers will take Mr. Obrador's for granted, and at the same time they also state in those same articles that the European Union has declared the elections clean and fair and so have done many other election observers.
Now people are getting disgusted every time they see his face on tv, for they know he is going to spread lies, hate, blackmail threatening of violence in the streets if we do not give him what he wants.
What is going on here?

empyboxes:

"threatening of violence in the streets if we do not give him what he wants..."

What has AMLO asked from you? He asked for your vote, and you didn't give it to him. Your choice.

The "markets" would have to take a "te de tila." The president of the European observers said that he would favor a vote per vote recount, if law allows it. I haven't heard AMLO making all the accusations that you impute him... What else? Ah, yes!

"What is going on here?"

Democracy, that's what is going on...

pasilla...

Precisely, "Democracy, thats what is going on..."

And what went on on the 2nd July.

The people voted, AMLO lost, not just to Calderon but to the other, approximately two thirds of Mexican voters who chose not to vote for "the man of the people", accept it!

As to regards the Northern States, I live in one, Chihuahua, that´s the big one at the top. My aunt (tia) was president incharge of one of the actas (polling booths in England) and after all was finished all were amazed that it was PRI with the highest count by far. This was in a small town in the sierra madre (very poor town were AMLO should have done well, if he really cares about these people). AMLO concentrated his efforts in the south because he has his power base (Mob)there and can know what goes on with every vote.

Here, when speaking (not asking, or conducting a poll) with voters they were basically saying "we voted PRI because they give us food".

PAN does not try to buy these votes, but relies on the intelligence of people to make their own minds up. If PAN (by no means perfect) allows the middle class people who voted for them to expand their businesses, it means more jobs, more money, more chance of saving some to start another new business, which means more jobs, more.......

Look at how United Kingdom (Reino Unidad, although in Mexico, England, Great Britain etc seem to mean the same place) had to go through some tough times in the early 1980´s to get itself, if not back on it´s feet, at least it´s knees.

The only way to prosperity is through enterprise. If PAN does not fan the flame of small business, this country is finished.

Mexico has oil, and due to factors outside it´s making, AMLO would love to use the increased oil revenue for pointless projects for the poor of this country. Don´t make jobs, create opportunity.

There´s a quote from somebody somewhere which goes something like "Yes, you have oil, but the stone age didn´t finish because they run out of stones"

Pasilla,

I hope you know how to read Spanish. Following are some quotes from AMLO. All were made in public and televised in Mexico. I notice that you claim that you haven't heard or read any of the things said by emptyboxes. These are just a few. You have asked people on several occasions to read up before emitting judgment. I suggest you do the same. I didn't want to translate them because you would probably nitpick the translation.

1) Andrés Manuel López Obrador dijo ayer que algunos de sus representantes no actuaron con rectitud y que a varios se les ofreció dinero.

En conferencia de prensa, el candidato presidencial de la coalición Por el Bien de Todos se refirió al tema cuando se le cuestionó el hecho de que su representante en la casilla 2227, de Salamanca, avaló el supuesto "embarazo" de una urna, mostrado por López Obrador en un video que exhibió el lunes pasado.

‹¿Qué opina del testimonio de su representante de casilla en Salamanca?, se le cuestionó.

"Bueno", dijo, "pues que eso lo que afianza es la idea de que
no todos los representantes de nosotros actuaron con rectitud, eso es todo".

Entonces, ¿falló su estructura electoral?

"No", expresó. "Hubo mucho dinero de por medio. No quiero decir que fue el caso, pero tenemos elementos en donde llegaban a ofrecer dinero a nuestros representantes."

2) "Fox se ha convertido en un traidor a la democracia", aseguró López Obrador en conferencia de prensa, "porque para que él llegara a la Presidencia sefueron abriendo espacios poco a poco, con el sufrimiento, con el sacrificio de mucha gente.

"Y llega él a la Presidencia gracias a eso y se comporta así, de manera antidemocrática, como mapache".

3) "más despiadadas embestidas antidemocráticas de que se tenga memoria en el País".

"Ellos fueron los que lanzaron la leyenda negra sobre mi persona y la propaganda fascista, según la cual yo era un peligro para México".

En uno de los discursos más fuertes que ha pronunciado desde que fue acusado de desacato, el político tabasqueño aseguró que las felicitaciones de mandatarios extranjeros son una faramalla y que su adversario Felipe Calderón es sólo un pelele.

"Ha sido precisamente el predominio de ese grupo, de esa minoría rapaz, lo que ha llevado al País a la ruina.

"Son los que han convertido al Gobierno en un comité al servicio de unos cuántos y son los que ahora quieren imponer, en la Presidencia, a un empleado incondicional, a un pelele que les garantice perpetuar la corrupción, el influyentismo y la impunidad", acusó.

También aprovechó el foro para acusar al IFE de haberse convertido en un ariete del PAN, que se entregó "por entero a la simulación electoral, a través de la manipulación del sistema de cómputo de votos".

"Esto les digo, me duele. Manipularon el sistema de cómputo de la votación jugando, ultrajando, pisoteando, la dignidad, los sentimientos, la esperanza de millones de mexicanos", denunció.

4) "Me preocupa la irresponsabilidad con la que están actuando nuestros adversarios del Gobierno, la irresponsabilidad de los funcionarios del IFE, del candidato de la derecha, porque está de por medio la estabilidad política y la salud pública.
"No debieron de actuar de esa manera, ese espectáculo de ayer, de montar la difusión de los resultados, levantaron toda la expectativa, reanimaron a mucha gente, a millones de mexicanos y luego el golpe; eso es irresponsable, eso es un acto de provocación", dijo.

Según el tabasqueño, los consejeros del IFE no actuaron con rectitud, ya que manipularon el PREP, mediante la administración sesgada de los datos de la jornada electoral.

"Hice un exhorto a los funcionarios del IFE para que actuaran con responsabilidad, advertí que no era conveniente darle prisa y parece que hicieron lo opuesto.
"En 24 horas, con una prisa inusual, quemaron el término legal; en 24 horas resuelven una elección que numéricamente está sin decisión. En ese sentido no hubo disposición, no hubo voluntad para hacer efectiva la transparencia, por eso vamos al Tribunal Federal Electoral", dijo.

AMLO is calling people who disagree with him a fascist. (see above). What else is new?

Here are some very interesting freudanian phrases from a certain candidate:

- I never lie. I always say the truth.

- I won. I know it and you know I never lie.

Therefore, I won. If I am who I say I am then I must have won and indeed I am then the president. The other one, the candidate of the right, he lies, he always lies. and he is the candidate of the rich. the people on the top. Therefore he did not win. I am the candidate of the poor. I represent the hopes of many people. I talk to people. They tell me what to do. Because I won and I never lie. I am the Elected President.

This is from the renowned right wing/fascist newspaper La Jornada (lol). Even AMLO's own party is beginning to have doubts about him. Especially in Guanajuato where he libeled one of his own poll workers...

PRD de Guanajuato marca distancia de AMLO

Martín Diego

12/07/2006 19:25

Guanajuato, Gto. La dirigencia estatal del PRD en la entidad marcó distancia con las presuntas irregularidades presentadas por el abanderado de la coalición Por el Bien de Todos, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, pues argumentan que el partido no entregó ninguna evidencia de los presuntos fraudes.

El dirigente estatal del partido del sol azteca en la entidad, José Luis Barbosa, declaró en conferencia de prensa que hubo "un exceso de interpretación de parte de López Obrador al presentar unos videos que no sé de donde salieron".

También rechazaron que en una casilla de León hubiera 100 votos de más en favor de Calderón.

The man is nuts nuts nuts nuts. Period. The funny thing is that before the election, I was the only person amongst many friends who, while wanting Calderon to win, would have preferred, if the PAN had lost to have AMLO win, and not Madrazo of the PRI, which would have been a voyage back in time to the bad old days. In retrospect, I think I was wrong, even someone as crooked as Madrazo is not a paranoid nutcase like our MALO, er AMLO.

The above comment is by ME!!! Why does this system not have a failsafe for idiots who forget to enter their names?

Just a little correction:

La Jornada is not a right wing newspaper.

It is actually left-wing but not the kind of left we know in the USA or Europe, this newspaper represents the views of the most intolerant communist organizations in the country. Many of them sprouting from UNAM. There is a history in the radical communism of the country and it goes back to the spanish refugees during the franco regime.
But in Mexico many of these radical thinking communist found fertile ground in our UNAM university, where anti-americanism runs deep and it mixed with the radical communism. In the last decade La Jornada has also shown strong signs of Anti-Semitism.

This is all very simple to check. Just go to their website http://www.jornada.unam.mx and in the SEARCH BOX type SEPTIEMBRE 11 and you will see that all, absolutely all of the articles found talk about the September 11 attacks in the light of the reasons the poor islamic extremists had to do it. It excuses, apologizes and sometimes openly supports their thirst to kill Americans. One of their most asiduous contributor and quite a representative and respected figure of the left in Mexico is Rosario Ibarra de Piedra, she laughed and cried of happiness when those poor people were trowing themselves from the towers in the September 11 attacks, she writes there everyday and is a supporter of AMLO. La Jornada is also Anti-Semitic, if you type Israel in the search box you will find how all articles found will talk about the palestinian-israeli conflict from the palestinian side of the story. Often times you see pictures there of poor palestinian children victims of israeli soldiers attacks but i have yet to see there a single little picture or even a note of an israeli victim.
La Jornada also openly supports Marcos and his alledgedly indigenuous and anti-globalization movement, nobody knows what the movement is all about anymore, but somehow I suspect this fellow Marcos is working for United Colors of Benetton.

La Jornada is totally partisan and biased on all these issues and they are of course completely supporting AMLO and the PRD.

They also supported all the La Otra Campaña thing of Marcos, they never mentioned how this fellow marcos takes turns at nights with Chiapas 12 year old girls (in the traditions of these indigenous people that is legal) And some of the leaders of anti-globalifobic and gay groups of Spain, Italy and some in the United States also contribute to their stories.
Their most important writer, some fellow namde Julio Hernandes Lopez is famous for his cocaine conspiracy theories about the Mexican right wing organization EL YUNQUE.

All the months of the elections campaign, La Jornada made remarks and characterized and made fun of Calderon because he was so short, or because he is Catholic, etc. All the campaign the laughed at him, I have not checked lately to see whether they continue doing so.

Has everybody noticed that the pro-Calderon campaign is, and always has been, in reality the anti-AMLO campaign? I wonder what lies in the depths of the minds of these gentlemen, who turn them against somebody with such hatred...

Get to it, Jerry Bourbon and emptyboxes; keep correcting each other, to see if, by chance, from your delirant exchange at least a tiny bit of truth comes out...

Emptyboxes: you forgot to inform the readers that La Jornada's journalists dine on grilled children...

Empty Boxes.

Dude, SARCASM! Get it? Sarcasm. I am perfectly aware of what La Jornada is. It is like some one calling the Wall Street Journal a communist rag.

Pasilla: I do not hate anyone. Hatred is something for the Hugo Chavez type of leftest who has no other program than turning people against the "evil other". I do think that AMLO would be a disaster for Mexico, and his actions since the election just reinforce that thought.

Suppose, for an instant that somehow he does become president, and that by a miracle the 65% of the population that voted against him accepts this overturning of an election. What then? He will govern with a congress in which his party has no prayer of holding a majority. If you think the press attacks on Fox have been bad, wait until Reforma or El Norte get after AMLO, as they will. The PRI controlled unions will laugh at him when he tries to "enrich the poor" by cutting buerocrats' salaries. To top it off, petroleum is at historic highs, and will probably not stay at $70 a barrel for his sexenio.

So, things will not go his way. Congress and the unions will obstruct him. Oil prices will drop, and with them federal revenues. The American congress is going to do him no favors on the immigration front. What will his reaction be? I have a strong fear that he is going to discover a "complot" of Mexican "traitors" (ie anyone who is a northerner or not a blind supporter) and foreign (gringo) "imperialists" out to get him. What will be his reaction. In three years, there will be congressional elections. If things are not going well, the PRD will take a bath in these elections. Will AMLO accept this, or will he discover that the "Yunque" and the gringos have stolen another election? Whither Mexico?

Felipe Calderon represents a new generation of professional politicians. Even though he started out his campaign when 80 of people have not heard of him. I remember how Mr. Obrador and Madrazo both laughed at him at the begining of the campaign. But they underestimated. PAN traditionally has ran campaigns alone. The 2000 Presidential campaign being an exception. But for the most part, the party has always been self-suficient and their people usually comes from a well-educated and highly-participative middle-class. This where they find their base. PRD and PRI have made big mistakes by not catering to the middle classes in Mexico, which are growing little by little. This is a lesson to be learned by any future president wannabes in Mexico. If they want to win, they have to appeal to everybody, because as a society we prefer to be integrated.
Calderon is young, his people are young, he has competitive women helping him and he knows how to make alliances. He saw an opportunity when Gordillo started getting isolated from PRI. He started working with her and she helped him get a few million votes. That was a big mistake for Lopez Obrador, when Gordillo was getting alone they ignored her and they should have known they were in fact ignoring a very strategic potential ally.
And then the spot campaign exposing Mr. Lopez Obrador worst personality sides, and comparing him with Hugo Chavez. That really helped.
But don't make a mistake my friend, we in the north of Mexico vote for PAN and dislike PRD leftist and populists candidates. And in the first democratic elections we showed that we have desicion power because we are less people but we vote more, our abstensionism is as low as in DF and we elected Fox in 2000, Elected Felipe in 2006, and will probably elect the next president in 2012. Because it will be very hard for the left to come up with one as strong as Mr. Obrador was.
I think, however, that Marcelo Ebrard can build a support base in the north but he must start soon.

Thank you, emptyboxes, for reminding me of one painful episode in Mexico, just after September 11, 2001, when the leftists had a great time trashing the United States and talking about how the gringos deserved it.

I am not saying AMLO is of that ilk. He seems to be a decent person in the basic sense of who he is, but the people around him are a scary lot. If he couldn't even control the corrupt ones during his time as head of the government of DF, and if, as he incredibly alleges, his own representatives were taking bribes at the polling places during this election, then what kind of governance could we expect from him as president?

Now, I hear, people are flowing into Mexico City from el campo, some on burros. What a mess there will be in the historic center by this weekend. Maybe AMLO can show them all some more of his home videos. Maybe he could run some old Pedro Infante movies and re-dub them with dialogue that provides further evidence of fraud in the election. That is about how credible he has been so far.

Always good to follow these discucions,

but a quote from my gardener, here in Chihuahua....

"Yeah, I voted for Lopez, but now he makes us all look like fools, I won´t vote for him again....how many of his supporters can he insult before he goes"

The guy is finished, a dead parrot, just let him disapear in peace. I believe Britains deputy prime minister John Prescott needs a buddy to hang out with, they should get together.

"Take your medicine like a man AMLO" you lost, failed, became a loser, are not wanted.

AMLO, declare yourself an unsound person, you may make some (more) millions from the book of your pathetic career.

Jerry: La Jornada is leftist. But in the latin-american sense of the word. Left in USA means democracy, freedom, equal opportunities etc.
Left in Mexico means: Anti-Americanism, Anti-Semitism, Anti-Catholisism,Comunism, Leninism and extremism.
La Jornada edits the stories to accomodate to this leftist agenda.
Want to read a non-partisan newspaper? El Universal, Reforma, Excelsior. These are non partisan, they do not edit the stories and you will find more balanced opinions from both left and right political tendencies.

La Jornada is also behind all these cocaine leftist writers who ignorantly and manipulated by what they think is left, are spreading the notion that there was an election fraud in Mexico.

I it is really disgusting how far these people can go.

Now PRD is demanding the anullment of the presidential election. Their hate is so much, their incapacity to recognize the Felipe beat them up is making them take extreme options.

And now. Little by little, some journalists are begining to talk about AMLO being a little crazy. I first heard this in Imagen. But last night in Tercer Grado, somebody, I think it was Denisse Maerker and also Carlos Marin, hinted that AMLO was getting also crazy and that there were some people in the PRD who were already noticing it.

And since nobody in the PRD will ever dare to tell their bosss that he is getting nuts, PAN should really offer a psicologist in an effort to build bridges of friendship and collaboration between Felipe Calderon and AMLO. I know for a fact that some of the business man who support Felipe Calderon own some very good mental hospitals and perhaps they could arrange some kind of scenario where the disguise the Mental Hostipal as the National Palace and the room as the Original Room where Benito Juarez used to live, and with CCTV he will see himself on TV all the time. I am just worried about AMLO, we definitely need to do something soon.

Thanks for the link to LaJornada. Their lead article has this quote from AMLO

"Si Felipe Calderón pretende imponerse de la manera que se ha visto, vía un fraude y una campaña de odio para acabar con el contrincante, no es difícil imaginar cómo gobernará. Sin legitimidad, sin escrúpulos, sin moral, sin principios, sin nada".

So he is opting for scorched earth. Jeez, was a sore loser. Do populists have any dignity?

Because, contrary to their wishes, the LEGAL process to qualify the election continues, some representatives of the extreme right come to this space to spew their venom. Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans (among others, individuals like PeterN's gardener) are excersing their right to demonstrate (that, as far as I know, is still in the Mexican Constitution).

"La Jornada is also behind all these cocaine leftist writers..." I see; but you hate nobody...

"AMLO, declare yourself an unsound person..." Please, spare us your psicobabble!

"He (Calderon) started working with her (Gordillo) and she helped him get a few million votes..." Even in politics there should be some decency boundaries...

"I it is really disgusting how far these people can go..."

I could apply exactly the same words to some people and their vitriol in this blog.

This is getting tiresome, and a waste of my time. I'll keep watching as the story unfolds. I want to believe that people like Jerry Bourbon and emptyboxes represent the fringe of the right in Mexico. If not, I truly fear for my country.

And to give you guys an idea of why AMLO only got 27.61% of the vote in Nuevo Leon:

Monterrey, México (13 julio 2006).- En medio de retrasos y desorganización, una caravana de apoyo integrada por 280 perredistas y petistas partió ayer a la Ciudad de México para participar el domingo en la segunda asamblea informativa a la que convocó el candidato presidencial de la Coalición por el Bien de Todos, Andrés Manuel López Obrador.

A partir de las 16:00 horas, los asistentes comenzaron a reunirse en la Plaza Zaragoza, donde esperarían la salida para una marcha previa, programada para las 17:30 horas, pero que se retrasó una hora y media.

Mientras salían a la marcha, los manifestantes se entretuvieron lanzando consignas e insultos en contra del proceso electoral, los organismos electorales, el Gobierno de Vicente Fox, los empresarios, los sindicatos y el PAN, y su candidato presidencial, Felipe Calderón.

Up to here, all seems normal. But, why go to church after you shout insults. Could it be that they want to repent like good God fearing Christians?

A las 18:20 horas, unas 200 personas del contingente, encabezadas por Socorro Ceseñas, dirigente estatal del PRD, y Guadalupe Rodríguez, Diputada local del PT, entraron a la Catedral Metropolitana de Monterrey, en donde dirigieron una plegaria para encomendarse en el viaje y llamar a sus oponentes a aceptar la derrota.

Tras 30 minutos de oración, el contingente comenzó a entonar cantos religiosos y cerró su breve visita con el tradicional tema de las peregrinaciones, La Guadalupana.

As far I know, AMLO is not the Virgin Mary and this march is not a pilgrimage.

A ver si nos entendemos:
Hay un candidato triunfador. Gano por .5%. Eso dicen el IFE y LAS ACTAS, firmadas por los representantes de los partidos (el PRD solo pudo acreditar el 75% en las casillas).
Que sigue?: la revision y la calificacion de la eleccion. Y la declaracion de Presidente Electo.
Que el Cacique de Macuspana esta fuera de control?. Alguien esperaba otra cosa?. Aguantaran las instituciones mexicanas a este peculiar sujeto?. Creo que si; sin mayores problemas. Ya estan demasiado vistos sus enormes defectos y problemas personales. Ni los pobrecitos "pobres" van a continuar creyendo sus hermosas historias. Y ya se esta quedando solo; ni ese otro peculiar senor llamado Ebrard lo aguanta mas.
Pronto pasara este aguacero y seguiremos trabajando. Ningun grupo va a morir por Amlo. Lo veremos.
Lo siento por el camarada Pasilla. Otra vez, una vez mas, se equivoca.

The real question is, how long will it take the PRD to finally put a stop to Lopez Obrador?

They won a lot of political capital during these elections, and now Lopez Obrador is wasting it away and looking like a fool in the process.

I say, give him as much rope as he wants to hang himself.

De cuando a aca somos "camaradas" tu y yo, Eduardo Valle? Podrias sacarme de mi error? En que me equivoco? Yo si tengo elementos para senalar una equivocacion. Alguien en este dialogo (no yo) se equivoco en un 75% (con los datos disponibles hasta el momento): recuerdas el millon de votos con que ganaria tu candidato? Ya sabemos lo que dicen LAS ACTAS. Ahora queda por saber que dicen LOS VOTOS. Me asombra la erudicion e informacion de la derecha. Con el mayor desenfado pueden dictaminar sobre "los problemas personales" (?) de cualquiera y hablar sobre la forma de pensar de quien les plazca (por ejemplo, Marcelo Ebrard). Repito lo que ya dije: parece que LA VERDAD es opcional en el discurso de la reaccion...

This is a beauty, TG. Are the followers of AMLO going to be excommunicated?

I recall a presidential candidate who used to wave a banner of the Virgin of Guadalupe during his political meetings; his name? Vicente Fox...

Jesse, why don't you go to PRD with your "wise" advise? The new PAN strategy, as recorded in today's Mexican press, is an attempt to divide the PRD. Your comment is very transparent, Jesse...

Es cierto, Senor Pasilla, me equivoque en 75%. Calderon solo gano por unos 250 mil votos. Pero gano; su mas cercano adversario (Malito) perdio. Y el 65% de la poblacion eligio otra opcion. Nada mas.
Bueno: al menos no me equivoque cuando senale que Calderon resultaria el candidato triunfador.
Y, senor Pasilla, pensaba que eras camarada con tus camaradas pejelagartianos. Tambien aqui me equivoque?. Ciao.

Actually, pasila, my gardener won´t be demonstrating. He is, of course, free to do so, but as I stated earlier, he thinks AMLO has gone too far, and is helping nobody in this country. In fact, last time I saw him watching AMLO on TV, he was saying AMLO was a pend***o.

But don´t worry if PRD´s own voters are turning away from him, you got silver didn´t you? Why