From The Post: Years of Protest?

Protests in support of Andrés Manuel López Obrador continue to clog downtown Mexico City. As The Post's Manuel Roig-Franzia reports, López Obrador said Sunday the protests could last for years despite a partial recount that appears to be confirming his narrow loss.

The opposing sides have waged a spin war since the recount began last Wednesday. López Obrador, of the Democratic Revolutionary Party, and his top lieutenants say the recount has confirmed their fraud suspicions and exposed the "disappearance" of 80,000 ballots. Arturo Sarukhan, a top Calderón adviser, painted a different picture in an interview Sunday, saying the recount revealed no changes in more than 90 percent of the recounted polling places.

Mexico's special electoral court has until Sept. 6 to certify a winner.

By washingtonpost.com |  August 14, 2006; 10:53 AM ET  | Category:  From The Post
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Ceci,
the plantonistas might have grand ideas for the future, like Marcos had in 1994. Lopez is doing the same little number, but we've seen that movie. It ends with the messiah-of-the-month facing utter irrelevance. The large majority of mexicans have seen Lopez for what he is: the tin pot fascist flavor of the day. He'll never recover from this doozie.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 11:57 AM

How long will PRD wait before they shut AMLO down? How much support do you think AMLO will get after TRIFE delivers the final judgement in Calderon's favor? There is real damage being done to the PRD party right now as people begin to see them as a radical movement.

Posted by: Greg | August 14, 2006 01:58 PM

Greg, How right you are. How is it that a perfectly responsable party with a definate guide line on policy can let themselves become dragged into a situation like this.

They will loose bonafide party members if they continue.

Posted by: gmb | August 14, 2006 02:06 PM

I feel really, really bad for Alejandro Encinas. He is in the most uncomfortable position now that AMLO has said that he wants to give the Grito in the Zocalo and hold a meeting in there instead of the traditional militar parade. And the worst thing of all is that he keeps supporting AMLO. He reminds me of a wife being beaten up by her husband and defending the bastard by saying "he beats me because he loves me". AMLO has never thought for a second that he is risking the political careers of his supporters in the PRD and, even more, he's risking everything the party has achieved in recent years.

Posted by: bunburina | August 14, 2006 03:00 PM

bunburina,

You hit the nail flat on the head. There will be hell to pay for those who don't disengage from Lopez. His antics will be tolerated by mexicans up to a point. This self-appointed Purifyer will then look a lot like yesterday's news.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 03:34 PM

Back to the future:

The federal police has just kicked the perredistas who were trying to block Congress. They are trying to settle there and the police began to move their vehicles which where blocking the entrance and some PRD congressmen helping the protestors got hit real bad.
I hope the Federals give them what they deserve.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 04:53 PM

bunburina:

It's legitimate that you feel the pain for Alejandro Encinas. But the most relevant feelings are his. You go back to your unsubstantiated opinions: "AMLO has never thought for a second that he is risking the political careers of his supporters in the PRD..." How do you know? Why do you transfer your own disdain or hate for AMLO to others, including memeber of PRD? I don't hate Patty Mercado; In my opinion she's irrelevant in the big picture, but that's all. I don't accuse her to brainwash you. You freely decided to vote for her, so be it. Things are starting to warm up, and hateful speech will not help them to cool down.

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 05:06 PM

So now that the recount did not do anything for AMLO's cause, all the pseudo-intellectuals like Lorenzo Meyer and Julio Hernandez and other mediocre representatives of the left in our country will start their newest mental masturbation: The Abstract Annulment of the Election.
Ciro Gomez Leyva, with his usual mediocrity started the new masturbation theory today mentioning the possibility of the annulment of the election.
Raymundo Riva Palacio and Francisco Cardenas from El Universal have been fingering themselves with this idea of an interim president.
And now there will be a massive fingering exercise with this new masturbatory theory at La Jornada and all those mediocre PRD journalists and analysts.
They cannot believe the Mexican people voted for Felipe Calderon. They cannot believe the right has won again.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 05:13 PM

PRD better watch out for Patricia Mercado and her movement, although small, it does pose a serious challenge to the many very sofisticated voters in DF who gave a whole bunch of votes to AMLO last July not because they believe PRD but because the imperative of having a left in power made them do so, but these same people are not very happy with what they have seen after the elections and they certainly would not like a constitutional crisis that will affect their economy. In a less polarized election, I have no doubt many of these people will give their votes to Alternativa or any other more modern and moderate social democract offer than PRD.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 05:31 PM

emptyboxes,
I wish the police stops the kicking and starts some serious incarceration. For the moment, federal law enforcement will enforce nothing. The clowns-for-Lopez are are playing the Ghandi game for now and there is no sign that their posturing is anything but a ploy for space in the news shows. They have ravaged the economy on the Reforma corridor and are accountable for several medical emergency deaths and a miscarriage of a 23 year old pregnant woman that was stuck in an ambulance because of the blockade. To Lopez and his compadres this is small potatoes. For the rest of us this is crimanal behaviour. If these morons don't change their tactics pronto, they deserve what's coming to them.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 05:53 PM

"serious incarceration..." I think that rodolfo may explain for us the "funny" type... It may be good to know on what charges. In the Mexico I know elected representatives have immunity.

"I hope the Federals give them what they deserve..."

Where did I read something like this before, the Victoriano Huerta "administration," and his attacks on Belisario Dominguez and Gustavo Madero? Great group of "pacific legalists" who aspire to govern the country... By the way, emptyboxes, did you refuse or are incompetent to describe the video that you watched? You seem very keen to describe your own masturbatory practices, which you transfer in a childish attempt to smear respected journalists and commentators. Why don't you give a try to a meaningful description?

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 06:21 PM

Raimundo Riva Palacio has written a masterful article on El Universal. In a nutshell he states that Lopez and his merry democrats have incurred in at least 17 violations to the Constitution, Federal Penal Codes, D.F. laws, Electoral Law and Public Servants Law.

It would mean Trial by Congress, destitution, loss of candidates registry, monetary fines and jail for up to 9 years.

He ends his very thorough article by saying nothing will happen because these thugs know that in Mexico the Law is an exchange currency used for political bartering among friends and applied ruthlessly to adversaries.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columnas/59729.html

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 06:39 PM

"serious incarceration..." I think that rodolfo may explain for us the "funny" type... It may be good to know on what charges. In the Mexico I know elected representatives have immunity.

THIS IS PASILLA'S FIRT PARAGRAPH. DOES IT MAKE ANY SENSE? IF SO: EXPLAIN.

Posted by: | August 14, 2006 06:53 PM


"I hope the Federals give them what they deserve..."

PASILLA: I NEVER WROTE THIS. DON'T PLANT YOUR CLUMSY WRITING AND PASS IT AS MINE!!!

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 07:03 PM

The Redskins and the Nats lost yesterday... Another proof of AMLO political demise? Did you have to bring that up, Pasilla? The Redskins cost me money yesterday.

I have been away at the beach for a couple of days, and returned to the wonderful news that the PFP actually had the intestinal fortitude to remove a planton. Now, if they will just deal with the morons who are blocking casetas de cobro, we might get somewhere.

One of the massive failures of the Fox administration (there have been many...) has been his failure to uphold the law when confronted with potentially violent demonstrations. Starting with the airport disgrace and continuing with the animals of Atenco, Fox has sent the message that, if you threaten violence, federal force will either back down or not be applied in the first place. AMLO has recieved and understood this message loud and clear. Hopefully, what happened today is a sign that things are changing. In a democracy we all have to obey the law, even the opposition.

By the way, Ms Maya, I love you too...

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 07:19 PM

rodolfo:

I apologize for my "clumsy writing." But your clumsy reading and your "navel of the universe" attitude are all yours:

"I hope the Federals give them what they deserve..." Belongs to emptyboxes.

I guess I will die without you explaining how "funny incarceration" (opposite to your "serious incarceration") looks or feels like. Perhaps in a country fair, if you refuse to participate in a fake marriage...

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 07:24 PM

JerryB,

the news from San Lazaro is the first volley to signal Lopez that his charade is about to have an unhappy ending. There is a surging upswell of well-founded resentment against these rabble-rousers and their fanatical followers.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 07:39 PM

pasilla,

I still have no idea what you're saying. If you are going to post quotes from several authors, I think mentioning this would avoid confusion. Thank you.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 07:49 PM

I'm sick and tired of the cavalier invokation of the individual right of freedom of transit to criticize the encampments in Reforma, as Riva Palacio does in his "masterful" article. I trust that if not all, most of the readers are bilingual:

"Artículo 11.- Todo hombre tiene derecho para entrar en la República, salir de ella, viajar por su territorio y mudar de residencia, sin necesidad de carta de seguridad, pasaporte, salvoconducto u otros requisitos semejantes..."

Can anybody show me where in Article 11 it says that rich Mexicans have the inalienable right to drive their Hummers on a road? When has anybody asked for a passport to individuals who walk over the blocked Reforma Avenue?

Ignorance is the mother of all fanatisms...

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 07:51 PM

pasilla,

one more thing: DON'T PLANT EMPTYBOXES' CLUMSY WRITING AS MINE.

I love my brilliance! Thank you.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 07:52 PM

Rodolfo, more of the rest of us have to signal that we are not putting up with this crap. These morons blocked the border crossing here in Tijuana for a half an hour a few days ago, and the police, federal and local, did nothing. Had I been stuck in the line (I did not even know about it until after the fact), I would have been taking the baseball bat out of my trunk and clearing a path.
We citizens need to make it clear to these people that their freedoms to protest stop when they begin infringeing on our liberties. Period.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 07:54 PM

Never mind, rodolfo. Paraphrasing the Washington Post add: "If you don't get it, you don't get it..."

Just a clarification. The thugs of the PFP hit some congressmen and women. That in my book is a serious crime...

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 07:57 PM

Pasilla, this is from Reuters, which does not have a reputation as a conservative organization, to put it mildly:

"Demonstrators threw rocks back at the federal police lines"

"Last week supporters of Lopez Obrador briefly blocked access to the stock exchange, foreign-owned banks and the finance ministry. They have been given free rein by Mexico City police, largely because the PRD runs the capital."

Calling police "thugs" is interesting. Since you are qualified to call them names, you must also be qualified to tell them what to do. What should the police have done to ENFORCE THE LAW, and remove demonstrators from congress, AT THE PETITION of congress? Ask them politely? They did. The answer was rocks. Ignore them? Maybe laws do not apply to the PRD? You live in DC Pasilla, the DC police are constantly removing demonstrators, of all political stripes. Are they thugs too?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 08:09 PM

pasilla,

It's obvious you're not down here, pal. Untold numbers of productive people have to come and go through not only Reforma but a large portion of this paralyzed city. If there were an election right now your beloved PBT would be presented with a very hard kick in the butt and exiled to a place where the sun don't shine, compliments of the citizens of a grateful city.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 08:11 PM

Is there any kind of strategic partnership yet between the AMLO protests and those of Oaxaca? Would it be surprising to see AMLO try to coopt the cause in Oaxaca City into his own?

No.

Posted by: Greg | August 14, 2006 08:37 PM

LA CRONICA is reporting that plantistas have hightailed the invasion camp in San Lazaro, tents and all, and returned to their well deserved purgatory in their Zocalo hellhole. An anxious Nation breathlessly awaits their next heroic blunder.

Posted by: rodofo | August 14, 2006 08:52 PM

"Artículo 11.- Todo hombre tiene derecho para entrar en la República, salir de ella, viajar por su territorio y mudar de residencia, sin necesidad de carta de seguridad, pasaporte, salvoconducto u otros requisitos semejantes..."

Can anybody show me where in Article 11 it says that rich Mexicans have the inalienable right to drive their Hummers on a road? When has anybody asked for a passport to individuals who walk over the blocked Reforma Avenue?"

pasilla, for your information, the people from Reforma are only letting pass cars with stickers in favor of AMLO and they give passes to those PRDistas to let them in with their cars to the megaplantòn so yes, they are violating the law since they are asking some sort of identification to let you circulate through Reforma.

In the legalist mood we are today, article 6 indicates that people have the right to express their ideas and manifest themselves without disrupting the public order something that definetely people of the megaplanton and of today in San Lazaro are not respecting.

And, believe it nor not, I don't hate AMLO the person. I dislike the actions taken by AMLO the politician because I strongly believe he is harming my country. I just can't let it pass. I actually believe AMLO the person might be quite an interesting guy. Whether you hate Paty Mercado or not, really, I just couldn't care less.

Posted by: bunburina | August 14, 2006 08:55 PM

Greg,

The momentum of the lopista pipe dream is hitting an insurmountable obstacle. It would be high stupidity to get within shooting range of this crazy bunch. Lopez has painted himself into a corner, a very lonely corner. He's damaged goods, and he knows it.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 09:02 PM

AMLO is slowly committing political suicide. Good riddance. But, the bigger question is, will he take the entire PRD down with him? It would be very interesting to know what is going on inside of either of the Cardenas' minds right now.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 09:08 PM

Jerry B,

The reason authorities around the country are doing nothing is they are in a waiting game on purpose. Nobody wants to make heroes out of these clowns. The Nation is learning first-hand what PBT is really about. When and if law enforcers act, PBTistas won't know which way is up, or what exactly hit them, but it sure is gonna hurt.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 09:18 PM

bunburina,

To hell with legal niceties! Mexico is dealing with the onslaught of a nascent fascist movement. Their little problem: they need a rising tide of people, not a dwindling, ever-smaller bunch of equivocators. PBT is trying to destroy the citizen's trust in their Nation, their little problem is we're not buying it. We don't buy their fraud allegations and we don't buy that it's O.K. to take power any which way if you don't get the votes to do so in a fair election. Mexicans are learning to stand up to this challenge magnificently and in peace. Mexican democracy is growing up and the PBT fools can not stop us. THEY WILL NOT STOP US! Amen.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 09:47 PM

"Artículo 11.- Todo hombre tiene derecho para entrar en la República, salir de ella, viajar por su territorio y mudar de residencia, sin necesidad de carta de seguridad, pasaporte, salvoconducto u otros requisitos semejantes..."

It would be nice if this was respected, not just by the worthless PRDistas, but by our own government as well. Riding back from the beach thru Sonora today on route 2, I had the joy of getting stopped at a military checkpoint where I had to show identification (I wasn't carrying a salvoconducto...) to a soldier and waste time while he and his buddies searched my car for guns. This was supposedly for my "protection"; actually the only people protected are criminals who now know that all cars leaving this checkpoint are disarmed and defenseless. Would that the constitution were respected...

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 09:55 PM

Jerry B,

Cuauhtemoc and Lazaro are astutely making themselves invisible. They are waiting in the wings for the right moment to put back together what PBT has recklessly destroyed. They will be seen as PRD's only hope to lead the party back to safe waters.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 10:05 PM

OK, I have been away from this all for a few days. Apart from Maya subzero's threats, I did not think Ihad missed much, but I must confess I have no idea what "PBT" means... Please enlighten me.

"Pendejo, Bruto, Tonto"?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 10:08 PM

Ahhh...someone in the PRD is trying to seperate themselves from AMLO. I like my answer better.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 10:15 PM

JerryB,

PBT is shorthand for "Por el Bien de Todos"

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 10:16 PM

Although I do not agree with what the Perredistas are doing, blocking here and there, I also must strongly state here that I do not agree either with the great beating the perredistas got this afternoon at the hands of the Federales.
Those Federals beat the hell out of them so good they went back where they came from right away. That will teach them a little lesson. And I hope they understand there is more where it came from.
Seems to me the Fox Administration is finally getting it right.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 10:18 PM

Some people at the Plantones are begining to finally understand that AMLO is nuts. The other day when he said that they were prepared to be there for years, some people went like What?, and the journalists interviewed some of them and they said they were not staying, they had other things to do, except I guess, those punks who have nothing to do, and the Elotes vendors who are having good sales.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 10:27 PM

It would seem to me that if you throw rocks at the police, you should expect the police to do something. However, this is Vicente Fox's police who do not do anything to people attacking them with machetes and Molotov Cocktails at Atenco, so the PRDistas probably thought nothing would happen to them.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 14, 2006 10:28 PM

By the way, whatever happened to the vote by vote thingy? Nobody is talking about it these days anymore. Not even the alledged number of inconsistencies that the PRD said they found in the recount and that did not fly much in the public opinion and national and international media.

What is going on with this nuts? He is already lost somewhere far from reality.

I guess I understand the PRD strategy now. They will wait for Felipe to be elected, the congressmen and senate will start sessioning, and the already almost empty plantones will be lifted and an ambulance will quietly take away AMLO to a mental hospital.

Then they will try to forget about him.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 10:34 PM

emptyboxes,

PBTistas will do what their leader tells them. Lopez has shown he couldn't care less about anyone else but him. This man is a sadist and demands his followers to be masochists. Just sit back and watch the spectacle unfold in its full wonder.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 10:38 PM

Rodolfo:
This is a most interesting show. Yesterday some imbecile radical went into the church and started the usual cry of vote by vote inside in the middle of mass service.
There was an interesting remark by the Cardinal, he said there are always some violent people inside the PRD, but that not all of them are.
Today they get their asses kicked real good at the Congress and they went back to put their tents in the Madero.
They are certainly putting a good show.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 10:47 PM

emptyboxes,

This lunatic is going nowhere on an ambulance. This very wet rooster is getting plucked right and left, licy feather by lice riddled feather. He will finally leave el Zocalo completely exposed and humiliated, and oh so very full of hot air.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 10:49 PM

I saw on TV how the lady was evicted from the Cathedral premises. She started her screaming before the religious services were over. She kept on with her ranting in front of TV cameras outside. Can you imagine someone interrupting Lopez in the middle of his woeful homilies. The poor innocent that tried that stunt would end up in a hospital, muttering thanks for having his life spared.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 14, 2006 10:56 PM

We can clearly see how this man is completely mad for power and how our country has just been spared from falling into the hands of a demagogue and totalitarian lier who will stop at nothing, not even the safeguard of peace and constitutional laws, to get power.
He is completely crazy for power and I agree with Bunburina in that he is dragging down with him many PRD people.
They will lose Chiapas this Sunday I am sure. And the Tabasco election is not looking any good at all for the PRD either, they candidate was top in the polls two months ago, today the PRI candidate is rising quickly.
And the PRD better take note of this because if they lose in Chiapas and then in Tabasco, the leadership of that party will be seriously compromised.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 14, 2006 11:04 PM

The greatest shame about AMLOs performance these last few weeks is that he has really damaged the cause of the left.

As some of you will be aware, I´m a little bit of a capitalist myself, but I don´t actually believe the priorities of PAN is to screw the poor for the benefit of the rich, ultimately, even the owner of Telmex needs people with money enough to make phone calls...

What is important, even to a Margaret Thatcher raised "righty" like me is that there is a political balance, there should be a natural party for those who wish to counter the many economic issues etc that are in play in Mexico.

Sadly, AMLO, in his quest for personal power has antagonised so many moderate people that genuine reformers with a leftish stance will be associated with the antics we are seeing, and people will close their ears before hearing a single word.

That, whether you agree or not with their policies, is bad for democracy.

Posted by: PeterN | August 14, 2006 11:11 PM

"pasilla, for your information, the people from Reforma are only letting pass cars with stickers in favor of AMLO and they give passes to those PRDistas to let them in with their cars to the megaplantòn ..."

I may be missing something, bunburina, but I don't see the word "cars" anywhere in the text of Article 11 of the Constitution. But anyway. Regarding your disdain for my thoughts about Patty Mercado, believe me, it doesn't rob me of my sleep. However, I confess that I still find puzzling your symphaties and dislikes. But I leave you alone with your simmering rage.

For the rest of the crew... No more than a big orgy of reactionary babble going on. I'm certain that doing something else with my time, practically anything else, will be more productive. Enjoy!

Posted by: pasilla | August 14, 2006 11:51 PM

Pasilla, let me get this straight. Are you saying that people have a right to block the passage of cars whenever they like, because the word "cars" is not in article 11. In you opinion, is preventing free citizens from moving about their own country OK? You will note that the US constitution does not mention cars either. If someone wants to sit down on the Beltway in front of you, should they have that right? Furthermore, if this was a bunch of Nazis demanding the extermination of Indians blocking Reforma, somehow I think you would have a different opinion of what their constitutional rights are.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 12:06 AM

Peter N, as a Thatcherite, you must remember the gang of absolute crazies who made up the Labour party in 1979. Once Thatcher started her reforms, and they proved popular, a more intelligent crew came into Labour and slowly made the party electable again. Hopefully that will happen with the PRD. Or Mercado's party may become the main force on the left. Either way, I do not see much future for AMLO and his ex PRI dinosaur friends. And that is a good thing.

Incidentally, is it just me, or are the PRD supporters here starting to come unhinged?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 12:13 AM

I don't know why I have such an impact on you my dear pasilla. You seem to worry too much about me. Maybe that's some sort of a compliment, I don't know...

This is some interesting editorial about the "elección de Estado" that AMLO claims is on the making in Chiapas. It is really good, it explains the whole mess in there

http://www.nuevoexcelsior.com.mx/Excelsior/macros/GenericNewsWithPhoto.jsp?contentid=11396&version=1

Now, AMLO has compared Chente Fox with Diaz Ordaz for what happened in San Lázaro. Right. And he's Gandhi. Oh wait... he does believe he's the next best thing since Gandhi. When they say that their protests are pacific I imagine that when they approach the PFP they would give them flowers and sing "Imagine" by John Lennon but no, their concept of pacific protest is to push the barriers, throw rocks, try to enter by force in the Congress, hit the policemen and then go on TV and claim repression. Really, I try hard to respect them, I really do but they just don't give me any room for it. Doubtful evidence, ever changing speech, flirting with illegality and agression just doesn't go with me.

And, a little off topic piece of news... Fidel Castro is alive and well. I'm glad he's fine, I really do, he is my favorite dictator to mock of, but the interesting thing is that he is resting on his bed wearing some Adidas track suit. "Dead to capitalism, dead to imperialism... but not for Adidas... David Beckham is their spokesman and he's cool"... awww, isn't he cute? Plus, Hugo Chávez gave him a tea-cup that used to belong to Simón Bolivar as a gift... isn't that suppose to be some national treasure for Venezuela? Didn't Diaz Ordaz do the same with the Tigresa when he gave her the bed of Carlota?


Posted by: bunburina | August 15, 2006 12:21 AM

"If PRD failed to prove their allegations, why was a recount ordered in the first place?"

You're missing the point pasilla, they've already failed to demonstrate their allegations in 91% of the stations. Additionally, those casillas are being open in order to determine if the allegations are true, not because they're true. Small distinction, but an important one.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 15, 2006 12:24 AM

Whatever happened to la Tigresa, she got into the PRD fad in a big way a few years back.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 12:24 AM

Ariel, what is a little detail like "truth" to a committed AMLOista? Did Goebbills worry about the truth? Of course not, so why should AMLO?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 12:28 AM

Jerry B:

Yes I remember those dinosaurs of the old labour party, Tony Blair has managed to hoodwink the English people by pretending to be more conservative than the conservatives. More importantly (and probably very unpopular with people who want the quick fix politically) after Dame Thatcher started her reforms there were several years of hardship for many people in England, but it lead to a much stronger and dynamic country, where today the jobs people have are real jobs, not unionised or public sector non jobs. Sure at one point the unemployment rate hit 12%, but that was due to the reorganisation of work practices, whereby you were only employed if you actually contributed a profit for the company (obviously doctors, nurses, teachers, police etc are not included).

Nobody in their private life will continually support people who are not prepared to pull their weight. Most of us will exhibit charity up to a point, but most of us have also had the experience with a friend or acquaintance of having to say enough is enough, in my experience it has been the guy down the pub who´s always "first out of the taxi, and last to the bar". By the same means, my tax contributions should go to projects that are more than just make-work for people.

I´m happy to support pensioners and those who for a genuine reason cannot work, but I´m not keen on paying good salaries to time servers. That probably writes off half the politicians doesn´t it!

I´m afraid to say I don´t really know that much of AMLOs plans, once again, the character became bigger than the message, if some one could tell me how he planned to enrich all the poor of Mexico (presumably through PEMEX returns I imagine, although as I have posted before, the stone age didn´t end because they ran out of stones, i.e. one day soon there will be alternative forms of energy available, although probably not cold fusion, eh pasilla!), I would like to hear it.

Goverments just don´t run things properly, the evidence comes aup time and time again that the best way to generate wealth is through the private sector.

Having said all that, if I don´t see a profit soon, I´m going back to England to sign on for benefits (I joke)

Posted by: PeterN | August 15, 2006 12:51 AM

Peter, go to Canada and tell them the Mexican GOvernment is going to kill you, they will give you asylum and welfare....

You are not the only one who does not know the details of AMLO's plans. He is going to provide full employment, build a bullet train to the border from Mexico City (WHY????) and bring about a new age of aquarius here in Mexico. Soon we will have Americans sneaking in, life will be so good.

But really....He is going to improve employment, but will not touch the federal labor law. I do not know if you have employees, Peter, but if you do, you are probably intimately familiar with what a job killer the indemnization provisions of this law are.

He is going to modernize PEMEX, but without touching its monopoly. Never mind that the government has no capital to invest in improvements, and the PEMEX union is powerful enough to prevent any job reductions.

He is going to modernize the CFE, again without any input of private capital.

Finally, he is going to build a 300MPH tren bala to nowhere. (Who will ride it? Why should they, slowly, increased competition is driving domestic airfares down to where they will be cheaper than un subsidized train tickets.) I assume he thinks that, despite no investment, the oil is never going to run out, and it is never going to drop in price, because the bill for this public work alone will be in the tens of billions of dollars.

Of course, he could just print the money. That tactic is working really well in Zimbabwe right now. And, when every thing goes to sh@t, he can always blame the gringos, everyone else does.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 12:57 AM

PeterN, if I remember correctly (maya0 and pasilla can correct me if I'm wrong) AMLO planned to raise the income of the population and therefore increase consumption and put the economy in motion. He didn't exactly say how but he threw a few ideas like increasing federal expenditure by building roads and a train that would cross the entire country and in that fashion employ people. And that's it. He declares himself a fan of FDR, that's why he kind of took the idea of the New Deal, without the proper context of course. Needless to say, he is strongly against private investment in Pemex and CFE and he also thinks of revising and renegotiating the NAFTA. I think he also planned a reduction on taxes. The federal money would come from reducing their salaries and erradicating corruption, not mainly from taxes. And that's pretty much his economical policy.

Posted by: bunburina | August 15, 2006 01:00 AM

Bunburina, take a wild guess how the federal unions are going to react to a reduction in salaries. As to reducing corruption, that is a good one. Maybe he can make Camacho Solis or Murat the anti-corruption czar. Both of them should have some minor experience in corruption. As to NAFTA, I wonder if anyone has told the United States it is going to be renegotiated. I wonder what they will have to say about that.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 01:12 AM

Jerry, I know. The whole economical model of AMLO seems to me like a homework made by some kid from secundaria for his economics class. Cutting their salaries is a good idea. Erradicate corruption is fine too. They have also said they would spend the international reserves of Banco de Mexico. Bad idea, since the reserves are there for a reason, they aren't some sort of "alacancía". And? Obviously, the country needs more money than that. And Pemex and the CFE, how are they going to get the necessary investment to actually work properly?

The DF destines 75% of their budget to support the beaurocracy. Is that their idea for employment? How are they going to support that on a national level?

And there is the NAFTA... like the USA is going to renegotiate it. It is unbelievable to me that some people think that, in the economical sense, we can live without the USA. It is beyong naive. First, we share one of the largest borders in the world. Second, we are neighbors with the only remaining economical and political superpower in the world. There is no other way, we have to work with them. I'm not a fan of the USA but I don't think they are the enemy either. We have had plenty of bad experiences with the gringos (a friend of mine made the diagnosis as the "pinche gringo" sindrome) but it is a reality that without the dollars that flow in our country, we would probably be like Bolivia. Rich in resources but without a cent to exploit them.

Posted by: bunburina | August 15, 2006 01:44 AM

I would also be very very wary about reopening negotions on NAFTA, even if the Americans wanted to. The US has some things, like access for Mexican trucks, Mexican avocados, certain wines from Baja California, and more that I am sure they would LOVE to renegotiate.

The minute the reserves in the BdeM get spent, say goodbye to the monetary stability that we all know and love. O well, I like my money with lots of zeroes on it anyway, and maybe AMLO can make us all millionaires again, like we were in 1992 and before.

What is wrong with Bolivia, by the way. Hugo Chavez says Bolivia is soon to be a paradise. And, he would never lie.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 01:56 AM

"indemnization provisions"

Oh &H%t. OK guys you never read me, and thankfully never saw me. I´ve gotta start hiding.

There is no way to get around these stupidly protective laws of labour protection. Unfair dismissal will cost at least 90 days salary plus puntuality bonuses etc (since when do I get a bonus just for turning up on time to the job I´m paid to do?).

Fortunately, if an employee is an arse I just put very time specific monitoring on them, and after 5 "late shows" get rid of them. Strangely, the biggest arses have been those who have gone to the states to work for a while, they cause most the trouble.

I believe I should be able to hire and fire as I see fit. To quote Corleone, "It´s not personal, it´s business", not act as a surrogate federal programme for the terminally lazy or incompetent. Good interviewing can aid this. I could go on about other cases, one employee resigned because he wanted to go to the USA to work, then demanded he got the payment as if he had been unfairly dismissed! It wasted several days of my time trying to explain the law to him.

I have in my youth been at the receiving end of bad management, bullies of the office etc, and thats not good, but I don´t expect to be employed and paid just through the fact that I draw breath!

Posted by: PeterN | August 15, 2006 02:03 AM

No jobs, no education, no future, no hope, no country.

Calderon to the rescue (of the oligarchy)!!

August 15, 2006
Census Shows Growth of Immigrants
By RICK LYMAN

The number of immigrants living in American households rose 16 percent over the last five years, fueled largely by recent arrivals from Mexico, according to fresh data released by the Census Bureau.

And increasingly, immigrants are bypassing the traditional gateway states like California and New York and settling directly in parts of the country that until recently saw little immigrant activity -- regions like the Upper Midwest, New England and the Rocky Mountain States.

Posted by: Calderon | August 15, 2006 08:50 AM

Top 10 reasons why Calderon is the best choice for Mexico:

1. First and foremost, Calderon will make sure that Mexico continues the trend set out by Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De la Madrid, Salinas and Fox. What trend is that? The trend of a long list of accomplishments occurred in the last 30 yrs. of PRI-PAN government.

2. Calderon will make sure that 50% of Mexicans remain with an income of less than $1 dollar a day.

3. Calderon will make sure that the exodus of millions of unemployed Mexicans continue going to the USA.

4. Calderon will make sure that the lack of gains in science and technology occurred during the Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De La Madrid, Salinas and Fox continue.

5. Calderon will make sure that Mexico remains a 3rd world country.

6. Calderon will make sure that none of the participants of the bank frauds committed every sexenio are brought to justice.

7. Calderon will make sure that the Durazos, Hank Gonzalez and Salinas are able to steal with absolute impunity.

8. Calderon will make sure that the income and social disparities between the Mexican north and south increase.

9. Calderon will make sure that millions of young Mexicans have limited access to quality education.

10. There has been absolutely no improvement in the living conditions in Mexico for the past 30 yrs. But thank God we have Calderon to maintain the status quo.

God bless you.

Posted by: Top 10 !!! | August 15, 2006 08:59 AM

PeterN,

I agree that its bad for democracy to shut out any political voice, be it from the left, right, or the jolly greens, etc. Mexico's big problem is we've had 73 years of PRI dictatorship.

We are just beggining to get away from authoritarian rule and building our way to a real democracy. Lopez and his inner circle are all former hardline PRI thughs. We mexicans can't allow these totalitarians
throw Mexico back into the dark ages and pretend we like it.

Lopez' mess is all his doing and we're not taking it anymore!

The Left is entitled to a voice in Mexican politics but it has no right to think it has a monopoly on political power. Mexico's contemporary Left reeks of the old PRI. The fools have shown their cards.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 15, 2006 09:23 AM

Top10,

So, to counter this you suggest we have new elections to make you happy. Or do you want Lopez to assume power without the votes, and give him "People's Choice" Award
and certify him President-For-Life, Veritable RayOfHope Savior of the Universe.
Wake up, it's not happening. We live in a democracy. Mexico's problems won't be solved magically by an enlightened Messiah. Give democracy a chance, not 10 reasons.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 15, 2006 09:43 AM

PeterN,

In Mexico we have a beautiful system called Labor Tribunal. A popular local singer has 100,000 DOLLAR penalty hanging over her head because an employee for her CONTRACTOR accused HER of some wrong. She never dealt directly with her accuser, she never dealt directly with the contractor, her company hired the contractor. The Tribunal ordered HER to pay the employee she has never met. This is so because the Tribunal accepts employees suits are ALL in good faith.
The case is on appeal, she will definitely win but what her lawyers will charge won't be funny.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 15, 2006 11:09 AM

JerryB,

Don't you miss the good old days when a soda cost several thousand pesos. A few years ago I asked a petate vendor in a country market for the price of a petate and he said 35,000 pesos. I asked this older man, who has sold petates all his life, how much the same petate cost when he started selling them and he said 50 cents.

The populist regimes that Lopez waxes nostalgic about turned a humble petate anyone could afford into an unaffordable Magic Carpet that was still a petate. Don't you miss those good old days.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 15, 2006 11:42 AM

Rodolfo, I remember walking around with a million pesos in my pocket at times (It was about $300US at the time) and feeling so cool. I remember being able to us one American penny to make a local call on a pay phone, because the phone company had given up trying to keep up with inflation, and just set the phones to accept anything round. And, I remember the pleasure of winning $764,000 pesos at a dog race in Tijuana.

A case of Coke cost $15,600.
A six pack of beer was $7,500
Tacos were $1,200 each.

Oh for the good old days. Maybe AMLO will bring all this back.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 15, 2006 11:55 AM

I know this isn't a very important observation but to me AMLO just doesn't look, speak or act like someone who should be president of a country. I see no culture in him. He seems to be a person of limited intelligence and personal grace. The way he slouches across the podium and waves his hand. The way he stops speaking and like nods and then picks up again without finishing the original sentence. No gravitas there.

Posted by: Greg | August 15, 2006 02:02 PM

Totally agree Greg, he has all the grace of the old fashioned ward bosses of Boston and New York.

Posted by: PeterN | August 15, 2006 02:54 PM

The next blog has started in Ceci's new blog posting.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 15, 2006 03:05 PM

AMLO is the movement's leader, but no the owner. He conduces a movement of people that are so tired of the same words and facts of traditional members of government. The protests are the shout of millions of mexicans that want another path for the country, a better future for all us, whithout more simulations.

Posted by: Miguel Ramírez Ojeda | August 16, 2006 11:17 PM

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