Mexico Waits While Election Tribunal Considers Complaints

Real political news in this nation awaiting-a-president, is hard to come by these days. The seven-member election tribunal is apparently chugging along considering a hefty batch of complaints and mulling whether to declare Felipe Calderón as the winner of the contested July 2 election.


Leftist Andrés Manuel López Obrador who prompted this season of uncertainty by challenging those results, remains camped out in Mexico City's downtown square, known as the Zocalo. (Read all about Campaign Conexión's visit to the tent city.)

Calderón, nominee of the ruling National Action Party (or PAN), is developing a transition plan that interestingly embraces some of the social policies his rival ran on. All of a sudden, the conservative who ran on promises to continue the policies of President Vicente Fox is talking about increasing cash handouts to poor, as well as reinvigorating housing and healthcare programs.

The coming weeks are a big test of this young democracy and the august Wall Street Journal editorial board argues that no less than Mexico's international reputation rests on the shoulders of the tribunal.

"Today, however, Mexico may be on the brink of undoing a generation of hard-won political reform," according to the editorial. "Amid the inevitable legal arcana that surround election challenges, the greater fear is political -- that the tribunal will bend beneath Mexico's notoriously backward-looking pressures.

"The tribunal's decision is a crucial test for Mexican modernity. Mexicans who had reason to believe that their country was evolving toward a pluralistic democracy supported by strong independent institutions are right to be worried, along with foreign investors and international creditors."

The Lame Duck

As Campaign Conexión has been reporting for some time, Fox is growing increasingly agitated with López Obrador's agitating. The latest whopper by the outgoing president was his statement that López Obrador is "messianic."


It's not that this is the first time someone has made that particular accusation. (Check out statements by noted historian Enrique Krauze.) But the president is supposed to be above this sort of thing.

Not one to be outdone in the whopper category, López Obrador declared this week that Mexico could wake up to "two presidents" on Sept. 17. His scenario: the tribunal certifies Calderón as the winner, while the national convention López Obrador is convening on Sept. 16 "certifies" him as the winner.

Naturally, this set off a batch of angry retorts from the other side.

"Prominent members of Calderón's National Action Party (PAN) responded forcefully, if predictably, Thursday.

'It´s another wild idea by a caudillo obsessed with power,' said party secretary general José Espina. Rubén Aguilar, President Fox´s official spokesperson, called López Obrador a 'fantasizer.'"

With little information coming out of the tribunal and the rhetoric starting to sound like a continuous loop of "Law and Order" reruns (same story, just different script), Campaign Conexión paid a visit this week to the Zocalo to check up on the López Obrador troops.

The square, now filled with enormous white tents, is believed to be the second or third largest in the world, behind Moscow's Red Square and possibly Beijing's Tiananmen. For weeks, López Obrador and his followers have been living in the tents in the Zocalo and along several major Mexico City boulevards.

What is striking about the makeshift encampment is that it actually resembles a small village. Under one centrally located tent is a giant map, indicating where to find portable toilets, water, medics and each state delegation. Separate areas have been designated for cooking, watching videos, youth activities such as painting and even exercise classes. Most of the campers have laid sleeping bags and blankets on wood pallets, in the hopes of not being flooded by the daily rains.

Women seated at folding tables were busy dicing onions and plunking them into giant pots. Somehow (perhaps with the help of sympathetic city officials), this tent city has electricity and gas. Political parties, naturally, have plenty of propaganda to distribute.

Just across the street stands Mexico's Catholic cathedral. Outside, vendors offers "buen precios" on cold drinks, miniature umbrellas, scarves and López Obrador dolls. Inside, a priest conducted midday mass for a group of a few dozen.

The Zocalo encampment is noisy - what with speeches blaring from speakers, car horns honking, TVs blabbing. But it is not violent, not even tense; more like somnolent. Several people interviewed said they were unemployed. One tent housed a group of taxi cab drivers who seemed to be alternating between driving shifts and sit-in shifts. Many tents are festooned with hand-made signs mimicking López Obrador's call for every vote to be counted ("voto por voto") and many that had not very nice messages for Calderón, Fox and the tribunal.

It all seemed very routine, far from radical or rebellious. And it also had the feel of semi-permanence. It's a bit hard to envision the few thousand packing up and leaving - and that is what worries many in Mexico.

On Sept. 1, Fox is scheduled to give his annual state of the nation address. López Obrador is threatening to erect blockades and Fox is posting armed security on the grounds of the congressional building where he will speak.

"Later Thursday, the PRD delegation called on President Fox to remove the military from the grounds of the Chamber of Deputies. The armed forces are providing security ahead of Fox´s Sept. 1 State of the Nation Address. The PRD referred to the heightened security as a 'strategy of occupation.'"

Of even greater concern is what might happen on Sept. 15, the day Mexico celebrates its independence and the annual military parade the next day. Typically, the celebration known as the "grito," and the review of the troops, are major affairs in the Zocalo. But it's not clear there will be space for the revelers and the demonstrators.

Fellow Mexico blogger Ana Maria Salazar has compiled an impressive catalogue of security concerns, statistics and advice.

She reports that contrary to conventional wisdom, Mexico City's murder rate is well below other major cities in Latin America. But robberies are a continuing and ongoing problem. Salazar also shares with us, security tips from Jon M. French, managing director for IPSA International de México.

Some in-the-know are beginning to hint that López Obrador might be willing to negotiate a compromise permitting the annual festivities to take place alongside the demonstrators. But for now, that's just speculation...

By Tanya N. Ballard |  August 25, 2006; 2:25 PM ET  | Category:  Campaign Conexión
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I think the key words here are "the few thousand protesters". Not many left to follow their messias off the cliff. And, I have a strong feeling that come the morning of Sept 15, if they are still there, the PFP is going to sweep through that place like a hurricane.

On a seperate note, do any of you who live in the DF know when Ebrard takes office? I am sure he is praying that this is all resolved before he has to deal with it.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 03:18 PM

K. Vronna, with regards to your post in the previous blog, I think a possible solution to the campaign financing problem would be the English one of VERY short campaigns, say 28 days, prior to which no political adds or campaign events could take place. Right now, there are Governor's races in Mexico in which as much money is spent as in an American presidential campaign (Tabasco 94), which is just insane.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 03:37 PM

Ceci,

Do you think it's fair for Lopez to have all the fun. This party has been joined and Fox has as much right as any of us to blow his trumpet.

Victor Trujillo had a Constitutinal Law pointy head explain about what the law means to different parts of Mexican society. The law tells common people what they can not do. The same law of the land tells the branches of government exactly the opposite. The law tells the goverment what it CAN DO.

For a government to operate smoothly the three branches the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial, can and must communicate.

My guess is that Fox got word from the Magnifficent Seven at TEPJF that the ruling would validate IFE's tally.

Fox sent the first feeler. Not many are surprised.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 03:37 PM

I have a little granade coming your way. Do not divulge my churchillian source, I want people to think I'm so smart as to come up with this whopper.
Remember the "transparent" tete a tete you and I had well in my way to kicking one of the last recalcitrant Colegio de Mexico's Dr. pasilla?
Let's pretend I'm answering your grammatical say you what admonition with this miracle of conciseness:
"This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put."


Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 01:33 PM

I don't have a clue what this guy is talking about; however, I'm not at all surprised: what to expect from someone who confuses common decency in speech with political correctness? His trove of argument is so meager that he has to make use of stupid sexist remarks. I'm sure that I can enjoy a good joke, but not those so cherished by this bunch of reactionaries, based on the most abject chauvinism and bigotry.

maya0 and, in particular, chiapaneco: way to go, guys! You are doing a great public service in confronting innuendo with arguments. I'm back and rested, after visiting one of the Estados Unidos Nortemexicanos (you'd wish, philo-PANistas!). Not much has changed on the right; however, it became a nice surprise how chiapaneco is doing a good job in cultivating the truth among all these dirty lies.

Posted by: pasilla | August 25, 2006 03:54 PM

Thank you pasilla!

And now a comment on Ceci's description of Calderon's attempt to "steal" the banners of progressives from Lopez Obrador. Another wet dream of this grey character whose boring speeches are only heard by closed audiences and bodyguards. Those are the only people he feels safe enough to speak in front of.

This in Dick Morris jargon (he is one of baldy's consultants) is called triangulation. Calderon was told that if he adopts Lopez Obrador's discourse people will just forget about fraud and irregularities and welcome him as President, even though there is gross evidence that the guy did not win the majority of the votes.

Sorry Calderon. It's not going to work. Everytime the little parrot utters a word on poverty we are all reminded of the sad results of the PAN government in this arena. They are currently hiding INEGI numbers so people will not confirm that Fox and the neoliberal governments that have preceded him have completely failed at addressing the needs of the majority.

These gobiernos have only acted on behalf of a little group and that is precisely what we want to end. Sorry Calderon, no ammount of parrot talk will make Mexicans forget what your sad campaign was about: promoting hate and division to prevent democratic accountability.

All these poverty jargon comming from a person who wants to be imposed as president through fraud is just plain insulting.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 03:59 PM

I have noticed that many newspapers are more than ready to use paid-historian Krauze's messianic babble to discredit Lopez Obrador and what he stands for, the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion.

Once again a reminder. Enrique Krauze, "noted" historian is also a publicist on demand for right wing conservatives. In the Salinas sexenio, Krauze was more than willing to participate in a campaign to present the Porfiriato (Mexican dictatorship that preceded the Revolution) as the best thing that had ever happened to Mexico. Krauze collaborated in the script of a soap opera that romanticized the life of Porfirio Diaz. The aim? To promote Carlos Salinas re-election campaign.

Could these newspapers so eager to quote "noted" Krauze could also take the time to interview Lorenzo Meyer? To be sure Lorenzo Meyer HAS NOT contributed in soap opera scripts to praise former dictators. Yet he does have quite a different perception of what is going on in Mexico that could help these newspapers present a more balanced (and way less cartoonish) coverage.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 04:09 PM

Here is a fragment of World Views by the San Francisco Chronicle, a newspaper that held its ground and did not fall for the smear campaign by Mexican conservative right wingers that demonized Lopez Obrador to keep the media from poking their noses into all irregularities and fraudulent tactics commited by the PAN and its Elbista associates. (Clear example, Calderon's phone call to some editorial boards to demand from them not to cover irregularities or issues of fairness in the process)

Kudos for the San Francisco Chronicle and its committed pro-democracy journalism:

"As the head of a government that purports to support democracy around the world (never mind that $2-billion-a-year hand-out to Egypt's longtime, democracy-crushing dictator-president, Hosni Mubarak), George W. Bush has completely ignored democracy's struggle for survival right next door, in Mexico. Many Mexicans have noticed Washington's deafening silence.


As a result, now that it's down-to-the-wire time there (Mexico's government must confirm who the next president will be by September 6), in recent days, leftist candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (or "AMLO") has reached out overseas in an impassioned appeal for support for his reform-minded, pro-democracy movement."


Yep. That's right. European press is giving progressives the derecho de replica that is denied by Mexico's media monopolies and other papers in the US.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 04:22 PM

Chiapaneco

"As the head of a government that purports to support democracy around the world (never mind that $2-billion-a-year hand-out to Egypt's longtime, democracy-crushing dictator-president, Hosni Mubarak), George W. Bush has completely ignored democracy's struggle for survival right next door, in Mexico. Many Mexicans have noticed Washington's deafening silence.


As a result, now that it's down-to-the-wire time there (Mexico's government must confirm who the next president will be by September 6), in recent days, leftist candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (or "AMLO") has reached out overseas in an impassioned appeal for support for his reform-minded, pro-democracy movement."

So whats it to be, can foreigners get involved in Mexicos elections or not?

Do you want Bush to comment, or should he ignore it, under Article 33 isn´t he doing the right thing not to interfere, or even be so bold as to express an opinion?

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 04:24 PM

rodolfo:
The Law is the communication mean of an institutional democracy, and this is how the TRIFE will communicate to congress, which will then announce the Elected President to the Republic. President Fox has no business there. Our Courts are independent. Their magistrates were elected by congress, an in particular, the Magistrates of the TRIFE, were all elected with the PRD blessing. And they have ruled in favor of PRD before.
But President Fox knows who the winner is, because that is no secret. Felipe Calderon won and PAN, PRI, PVEM, PANAL, Alternativa and PRD, all of them knew this from day one when they counted their actas.

AMLO and PRD claimed they won, but they never showed the Actas, when people started demanding them to show them, they started saying that the Actas had been falsified or manipulated.

Felipe Calderon won. TRIFE will declare him Elected President.

Had AMLO won that night of July 2, I have no doubt he would have been declared Elected President by now. As it happened, we are still waiting because AMLO has impugnated the Elections in every possible way to either annul some Casillas to revert the result or if that fails, to annul the whole election. They impugnated the whole election for a vote by vote recount and forgot to include all casillas, then they still have thousands of casillas impugnated, and finally, they want the annulment on abstract grounds. AMLO is President or none is.

A Vote by Vote recount: Who will recount? According these people none has the moral authority.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 04:35 PM

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD: PASILLA IS BACK FROM THE DEAD.

WELCOME. MISSED YOUR LEARNED RANTS!

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 04:35 PM

PeterN: This is the last time you interfere in our internal affairs.
I already got your IP address and I will passed on the the DF Authorities and post it in elsenderodelpendejo.com for the fellows there to start launching cyber attacks on you.
You bloody Brittish!

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 04:37 PM

That's a foreign policy choice for the Bush administration to make: they can be on the side of democracy, transparency and fairness or they can choose to endorse an authoritarian imposition in Mexico. My personal wish is, of course, that they choose the former but I respect that it is a sovereign decision for them to make.

Re: your manipulative comment on Art 33. Our Constitution is not to be applied beyond Mexican territory of course. It does apply to foreigners living in Mexican territory who have chosen not to renounce to another nationality. Certainly the law applies to foreigners living in Mexico who intervene in politics funding or aiding campaigns. Clear enough for you?

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 04:41 PM

emptyboxes,

The government has to communicate within itself the three branches have to have an ongoing flow. It makes sense that there is no written law that flexibility is prohibited. That kind of rigidity has brought down governments through the ages.
Do you really think the FED chaiman goes to congress without a heads up before with the president. It is a government not a Trapist monastery with iron clad vows of silence. Even the trapists allow some communication among themselves.

Fox was speaking for himself not TRIFE, but everyone gets the message.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 04:52 PM

Pasilla, never thought I'd miss you. Not in a "I looooove youuuu, maaaaan" way, but in an intelectual challenge way, because you actually listen and ponder what the other side is saying. Maya is starting to listen too, but Chiapaneco does not answer direct questions and will never, ever, ever concede a single point, decrying EVERYTHING as cartoonish (that in itself is even more cartoonish if you ask me). You could point out the hour of the day and he'll say it's Calderonista rhetoric. It's like trying to talk to a recording playing on megaphone on a soapbox that is behind a brick wall.

Welcome back.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 04:52 PM

emptyboxes:

I´ll have to start a varial phase modification of that IP address. Might take some time to work out how.

I wonder if the AMLOs do want Gerge W. to say anything, or only if they can see the speech first, and decide whether it is suitable for the masses to here.

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 04:55 PM

Pasilla, I'd like your take on AMLO wanting to be named president elect by the National Democratic Convention (why is it invitation-only?). Many are mocking him, but this one actually scares me because it can lead to people dying, after all, it would be like declaring war on the state (not the government although AMLO would probably say that) and if Ebrard picks AMLO's side (something I'm not completely sure he would) it could end up, very, very, very ugly. I obviously don't want anybody to die, if you have to ask.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 04:56 PM

So now chiapaneco wishes the USA to intervene, how? putting pressure on the TRIFE? What do you guys want the USA to do?

Get real chiapaneco, the USA already stated they will recognize whoever gets elected.

Or do you want the USA to directly tell Mexico something like: AMLO won, Recognize him now!
Don't be silly.

Perhaps you would like the USA to intervene the way that crooked and dirty dictator from Cuba, Fidel Castro, has done it. perhaps your would like the Americans introducing videos of people declaring stuff against Fox or Felipe Calderon.

Is that the kind of help you want?

And you guy got to learn to stop being hypocrites, you hate the USA and now you are pestering them?

Give me a break.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 05:00 PM

Chiapaneco:

Explain this please:

From the California Chronicle....

WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Representative Tom Tancredo (R-Littleton) today criticized participation in the recent Mexican presidential election by U.S. citizens. According to recent news reports, several thousand Americans of Mexican descent may have voted in the weekend election.

So US Citizens can vote in an election of which they will not have face the consequences?

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 05:01 PM

pasilla,

This from a learned rant from your acolyte:


"rodolfa
Eres mujer! Now I understand where your coming from. Not enuff things to do around your spacious peach colored home? Cant entice the UPS man? Now I get it, well enough said. Emptyboxes with the cocaine, and Peter with his warm beer, should be more than enough for u to handle. U should look up the recipe for making crack, and then have a FECAL King of Mexico extravaganza. Just keep it quiet, am sure your already concern neighbors are not up for all day into the night orgys. Sorry for calling u a puto, but i did get the perra slapping right didnt I?"[sic]

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 01:28 PM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 05:09 PM

So now Mexico will have it's own Fantasy Island show, except it will be at the Zocalo. You can be whatever you want! What do you want to be? The President? Jefe de Gobierno? Perhaps a Minister of Finances? This is great!

You can even have your own Proyecto Alternativo Cocaino de Nacion!

By the Way: What is that Proyecto Alternativo?

What does "Alternativo" stand for?
Do you guys have any idea? Is that what Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez are doing?
Is that it?

What a cocaine people! Fantasy Island at the Zocalo!

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 05:09 PM

You just don't get how dual nationality works in Mexico right? Go back to my previous post and check out the law. These people with dual nationality do face the consequences. Their families are here and they make a significant contribution to the Mexican economy.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 05:14 PM

And 58% of them voted for Calderon

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 05:18 PM

To the guy making a joke our of a foreign policy commitment to democracy:

Carta Democratica Interamericana my pal.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 05:20 PM

PeterN:

"Do you want Bush to comment, or should he ignore it, under Article 33 isn´t he doing the right thing not to interfere, or even be so bold as to express an opinion?"

Your fixation in a point of discussion (granted, vice shared by many of the Calderon followers) is leading you to write ridiculous statements. Article 33, as a matter of fact, ANY article of the Mexican Constitution applies to individuals in the national territory; how can the Mexican President ask anybody to abandon a country which he or she is not visiting, or in which he or she doesn't reside? Why don't you better move on?

(I wrote the above comment before I read chiapaneco's posting; this, Ariel Orellana, shows chiapaneco's systematic, informed challenge to nonsense or innuendo; I disagree with your perception).

Fox's declaration of Calderon as President Elect is one more of his traditional foot in mouth comments. Who's surprised after almost six years of his politically tone-deaf babble? Not at all unexpected from somebody with his disdain for culture...

Posted by: pasilla | August 25, 2006 05:21 PM

I wish I could be able to agree with you on Chiapaneco, Pasilla, but I just can't. I'd post examples but there's no point to it. I would still like you take on whay I asked.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 05:29 PM

Yep. The voto para los mexicanos en el exterior was a complete failure. IFE spent a lot of taxpayer money on this and it did not work. Bureaucracy prevented many Mexicans abroad from voting, others crossed the border to vote at special polls only to find out that they had ran out of ballots. There were actually some protests on this. This is another asignatura pendiente which must be dealt with.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 05:30 PM

PeterN:

Tom Tancredo can whine all he wants. Mexican law allows Mexicans who have acquired other nationality to vote for President. When one becomes US citizen, one swears to resign to any other nationality, but countries like Mexico consider that resignation invalid. Period. By the way, I repeat, once more IFE displayed blatant incompetence by failing to provide voting registration services in foreign countries. For those of you who blindly defend "the democratic institutions," what do you thing about this oversight (or worse) that disenfranchised millions of Mexicans living abroad?

Posted by: pasilla | August 25, 2006 05:32 PM

Pasilla, glad to have you back and see you brought both your yardsticks. You said:

"maya0 and, in particular, chiapaneco: way to go, guys! You are doing a great public service in confronting innuendo with arguments."

I have to wholeheartedly agree, like this gem of debating from Chiapaneco/Vivi:

"Kukiss is your real name? I have to say it is a quite stupid name... and it fits the person who carries it. All your arguments are looney. Seems like you have spent too much time on the phone listening to negative campaign recordings.

There is such a thing as a stupid opinion. Not everybody has a valid point. You don't have one galleta. What you are saying is just plain stupid.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 21, 2006 05:55 PM "

Such intelligence is blinding.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 05:33 PM

President Fox said Felipe Calderon won. All right.
But how many times that dumb fellow in the Zocalo has called himself the President?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 05:37 PM

It is really funny how AMLO's reaction to somebody saying Felipe Calderon won is to quickly give an interview with some foreing press declaring himself President.

Is seems to me the President and Felipe Calderon are having much fun with AMLO.

It only takes a call from Derbez to some country in Europe, next day they are congratulating Felipe Calderon, and by night AMLO is yelling at the zocalo that he is the President.

The more they play with him the more angry he gets.

That is some fun.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 05:41 PM

Actually I must fess up, and do post galleta's post again so we can see this in context. I was reading James Carville and I could not help myself from using the Carville reponse demanded by galleta's comment. I must say I enjoyed every second of it.

Can you also post the message when you so very maturely called me a lunatic?

Thanks!

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 05:42 PM

Chiapaneco, you are right, the voto en el extranjero was a disaster. Those ungrateful wretches (58% of them, at least)had the nerve to vote for Calderon. I guess living in the U S, and seeing close hand how a society that values capitalism and not crony populism and caciquism lives has corrupted their AMLO values. They, like Fox, the media, the church, the Cardenas family, Coca Cola, Sabritas, and many many others are traitors, yes traitors to the revolution and will, someday, recieve the punishment they so justly deserve. Right?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 05:42 PM

"Is seems to me the President and Felipe Calderon are having much fun with AMLO.

It only takes a call from Derbez to some country in Europe, next day they are congratulating Felipe Calderon, and by night AMLO is yelling at the zocalo that he is the President.

The more they play with him the more angry he gets.

That is some fun.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 05:41 PM"

Are you for real? Mexico's foreign policy has lost all credibility this sexenio. Derbez himself put a lot of the nails in the coffin. Phonecalls will not work, especially after countries found out he lied to them by asking them to congratulate Calderon as president elect. Sorry, European newspapers not interested in boring mousy gray candidates. Dream on and quit the bs.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 05:45 PM

We are starting a RAP/Spoken word poetry contest.

My name is AMLO and I was robbed!
I'm a victim of a mega-fraud!
More people voted for Calderon than for me.
But that's just not fair, you see.
My enemies are corrupt
Gordillo, the Pope, el Junque, Fox, they must all become kapupt
My friends are all o so clean
Camacho Solis, Murat, Munoz Ledo, the list is so long I could scream.
There is no way I could have lost!
My cookies I want to toss.
I will say I was robbed
as my supporters quietly sobbed
If the Mexican people didn't vote for me,
that just means they are way ugly!

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 05:53 PM

The article said "Americans of Mexican descent". Not Mexicans who had come here, become a US citizen, sworn an oath which Mexico ignores. Many of these descendants never were Mexican.

Mexico, prompted by the left several years ago wanted to extend voting rights to subsequent generations of naturalised USA Mexicans, on the hope they would vote for the left. The recent results show that was a bad idea for them. What would have been the protest from AMLo if all 4,000,000 elegible to vote had,as opposed to the small take up?

If Calderon had won by gaining 58% of the 4,000,000, overturning any victory in "mainland" Mexico, would they not then have demanded proof that all these people had some real, and current, link with Mexico?

It´s just a thought.

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 06:00 PM

Chiapaneco,
Here you go:

"Yeah, I think el Chiapaneco has something with the moon chunks, seems like some of the AMLO comments are from a LUNAtic.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 21, 2006 04:46 PM"

What's said is "AMLO comments", not your comments. You said AMLO had the moon rocks in his pockets, not you.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 06:00 PM

"Mexico's foreign policy has lost all credibility this sexenio"

According to who?

Tony Blair from England, Angela Merkel from Germany, Zapatero from Spain and many others have already congratulated Felipe Calderon.

Get real chiapaneco. They have embassies here in Mexico and they inform them on the real situation. They don't take lies from nobody before they congratulate anybody.
They know Felipe won.

We'll see how many countries call AMLO to congratulate him when he gets crowned at the zocalo by his little fantasy island cocaine convention.


Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 06:01 PM

Thanks K Vronna... and galleta's? since you have a lot of time on your hands I am sure you can make a quick recap of her "arguments" for all to read.

Interesting. Zapatero confessed he had been fooled by Derbez's lies. He clearly said he was ready to recongnized whom ever and defended Lopez Obrador and the Mexican left from cartoonish interpretations. Some members of the Spanish parliament also spoke against his first declarations.

Calderon has been calling everyone so he can later use Notimex to present himself as being de facto recognized and silence out cry against fraud and irregularities. Not ONE of key Latin American countries fell for this. No calls from Bachelet, no calls from Lula, no calls from Kirchner, no calls from Vazquez and no calls from Chavez. Poor Alan Garcia has to recover from the pain of not having Fox in his welcome party as president of Peru just because he commited the crime of declaring AMLO was the candidate who represented what Mexico was about.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 06:08 PM

Pasilla, glad to read your posts. Must leave. I am sure K Vronna will take the time to make a compendio of galleta's "arguments". Enjoy.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 06:14 PM

I heard that emptyboxes and rodolfo are on MY team.

Would that be the reason why they chear up each others posts??

Besitos Polacos pa'los 2. Mua!

Posted by: Mr Gay | August 25, 2006 06:15 PM

Greetings,

Just thought I'd add my two centavos.

As a person who has lived and worked in Mexico for well over ten years, I can offer the following observations....

Many of AMLO's observations are fundamentally correct, but acknowledging this has nothing whatsoever to do with a) his suitability for office, and b) his worrisome self-promotional willingness to use mob rule to get his way.

As to AMLO's purported effective management of the DF, I can only laugh out loud. The crime rate in the DF and the intractability of its world class problems (e.g. pollution and traffic) were hardly dealt with in any effective manner during his term. The crime rate is so bad, and so underreported, that it is a poorly kept secret that people with means are leaving in droves. So what does AMLO do? He encourages mass occupations that show absolutely no respect whatsoever for the comings and goings of people who actually have jobs and are trying to make a go of it.

The potentially terminal nail in the coffin of the 'new Mexico' would be any popular uprising against the election tribunal's independent decision making authority. The message to the world would be: mob rule trumps civil authority.

Posted by: voxclamantis | August 25, 2006 06:15 PM

Can't people in Mexico see what is really what is going with Obrador? I'm sure that alot of the people in Mexico who voted for this communist dictator bullie are beginning to see through this idiot and regret having voted for him at all. You ask what were Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez doing through all this? I can tell you that they are probably waiting to to see the outcome of this fiasco in Mexico, financed by both of them. Poor people in Mexico are so desperate to see a change in their country that they can't see that they are jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Cuba is a communist infested country with no future and Venezuela right behind it. Can't say that I blame the poor people in Mexico ... they just want a change in their country that will help THEM ... instead past politicians who enriched their pockets with stolen money that belongs to the poor ... I don't see how these politicans sleep at night. Shame on them!!! I am telling you that at the end of Calderon's term, because he will be the next President of Mexico, if .... Calderon doesn't come across for the Mexican people, Mexico could very well be the next Cuba. People in Mexico ... look long and hard at what has become of Cuba and Venezuela ... is that what you want? My prayers are with you.

Posted by: Frank | August 25, 2006 06:16 PM

PeterN:

Where is your punctilious English? I don't have a clue what you are talking about, my man... Besides, such a big fuss over 40,000 votes...

Posted by: pasilla | August 25, 2006 06:24 PM

"I'm sure that alot of the people in Mexico who voted for this communist dictator bullie are beginning to see through this idiot and regret having voted for him at all."

Posted by: Frank | August 25, 2006 06:16 PM

Mmmmm quick answer? Nope. What we truly regret is that the negative campaign has prompted such partial and even racist interpretations of what's going on here. It seems like according to some Mexicans are not capable of supporting a progressive candidate with a progressive platform without being branded as victims of manipulation a "communist, dictator, bully".

Excuse me sir, but us poor Mexicans have every right to choose the platform we feel represents our interests and the right to demand our vote to be respected. No need to pray for us. We took a liking to democracy and are quite ready to resist an authoritarian imposition. Thanks.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 06:29 PM

Yo, chiapaneco, is everybody who disagrees with you a racist? Kind of like everybody who disagrees with Maya is a Jew? Hell of a way to have a debate, but I guess if you are out of ideas it is a good fallback position to try to demonize your opponent. To bad it is not working very well.
What country do you think Calderon is going to exile you to after he takes office? Venezuela, maybe, or Cuba? Maybe you can get yourself sent to Zimbabwe, where they weigh the money, instead of count it.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 06:50 PM

"Mexico's foreign policy has lost all credibility this sexenio." Not entirely. I mean, I know you're all sensitive about Cuba and all but it's still a dictatorship and we'll disagree on that, but the Irak vote was not a disaster.

And the European newspapers, like any newspaper, are in the business of selling newspapers, they will print the story about the train wreck, not the one about it arriving safely to the train station. I wouldn't be extatic over AMLO being in the news worldwide, I'd be concerned.

"since you have a lot of time on your hands I am sure you can make a quick recap of her "arguments" for all to read." You asked, she obliged, do you have to get all sarcastic on her?

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 07:22 PM

Ariel, the Iraq vote WAS a disaster, one that we will be paying for for a long while. It is no accident that the US is happily deporting Mexicans, but no Salvadoreans, the El Salvador govt. supported the US on the Iraq war, Mexico did not. No one is saying that Mexico needed to actively get involved, but if we had just gotten out of the way, and abstained, life would be a lot easier. The Iraq vote made a lot of people feel good, but it was a disaster. On the other hand, Fox's standing up to regional bullies in Havana, Caracas and to a lesser extent Buenos Aires has been something to be proud of.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 07:46 PM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 08:13 PM

This is what it is
leaving afloat.
For that reason the
clasismo of our adversaries,
that was there,
but did not come out ahead.
Clear that they are clasistas,
clear that they are racist,
clear that they impel
and they create in the discrimination
and all this is leaving,
because this movement
must like intention
vindicate to million
of Mexican, we are
not going we to let
insist on the necessity
of a true change and
I say to them to you:
The power is not the palaces,
the power are not the luxurious offices,
the power is not the advisers,
is not the guaruras,
is not the helicopters,
is not those that are
to the service of which
they have positions public,
no. No, the power is the town.
That is the power.
Zocalo town, it is for now.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 08:56 PM

Lopez Obrador is really a very envy fellow. If Felipe Calderon receives a simple call from Zapatero, AMLO gets all angry and calls his staff to quickly get him an interview with some foreign press journalist to declare he is the President. It's ridiculous.

Now AMLO is also complaining that Felipe Calderon, as the Elected President, is getting all the cares and security of the Estado Mayor Presidencial, so AMLO calls that paraphernalia. Clearly showing his envy of Felipe Calderon.

Now that Felipe Calderon is announcing a huge social program to benefit the poor and the women and elderly of this country, Lopez Obrador quickly gives an interview to declare something against Felipe Calderon.

I have noticed how Felipe Calderon appears to be the center of attention of AMLO. He is always talking about him. Felipe says this, and AMLO quickly says something.

What this poor loser doesn't see is that people aren't paying attention to him anymore, people are tired of him, his daily rantings, his daily zocalo tirades.

Actually I got a feeling that those fellows there at the zocalo listening to him are not PRD regulars but a curious mix of Mexican Secret Agents from CISEN and Estado Mayor, some Cuban agents spying on the CISE, and some CIA Agents dressed as regular street vendors spying on the Cubans spying on the CISEN fellows. And AMLO talking like crazy on the stage.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 10:07 PM

Now that the end is near, and AMLO ship begins to sink, deathly stroked by a cleaned partial recount that showed no fraud, no nothing. I begin to wonder on the relativity of life and the idea of living without AMLO's daily rantings.
Do I want this to end in a few days when TRIFE declares Felipe Calderon President?
Do I really want AMLO to leave the Zocalo and get lost into oblivion?
What incentive will I have to come to my laptop and check on Reforma to read the last rant from AMLO?
What about all these intellectuals who have been making a living out of AMLO?
What are they going to do themselves?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 10:16 PM

Yes, Emptyboxes, you do want AMLO to leave the Zocalo and fade off into oblivion. And as soon as possible. History is not going to be kind to this fellow, he could have graciously conceded that he lost (since, Chiapaneco's rantings apart, he did lose.) wished Calderon well and faded away to await 2012. Now, politically, he is dead, and even the vultures do not want any part of his carcass.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 10:30 PM

Haven't the students returned to the DF? Some perredistas think they will rally to AMLO's cause. Does anyone know if this is happenning?

I don't know why Fox's suggestion that AMLO is "messianic" is a "whopper". He isn't the first one to suggest that.

Posted by: RC | August 25, 2006 10:34 PM

"I'm sure that alot of the people in Mexico who voted for this communist dictator bullie are beginning to see through this idiot and regret having voted for him at all."

Posted by: Frank | August 25, 2006 06:16 PM

Frank: Your remarks are highly imperialistic and interventionists.

Let me tell you that it is a federal crime, under Article 33 of the Constitution of Mexico, to interfere into our internal political affairs with such imperialistical remarks. That includes giving your opinion, talking about it, or even posting stuff like you did in this blog.

Should you dare to continue posting such imperialist and intervening opinions we will report you to the DF Authorities who will be glad to demand your extradition into Mexico and apply the full extent of the law. That may also include being completely incomunicado to stop you from making such interventionist and imperialistical remarks on Mexican politics. Not to mention your IP Address will be thrown to the dogs at elsenderodelpendeje.com and your entire name dominion will be subject to spam and hacker attacks.

You have been warned.


Now if you would consider to change your mind and speak in support of AMLO, then you could just dismiss this Warning and continue happily posting your opinions.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 10:40 PM

RC, it is racist and fascist to criticize AMLO in any way, for any reason. Please save your criticisms for Fox, the PAN, and the 15 million traitorous Mexicans who voted for Calderon.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 10:41 PM

Jerry, rodolfo, PeterN:

Notice how as the end gets nearer and nearer. UNAM moves with the same desperation as AMLO and the PRD move.

Read today's article from Francisco Cardenas in El Universal. The guy has been pro amlo all the campaign. No a single line of criticism against AMLO coming from him.
And he usually fingers himself with the idea of an annulment. It is worth noticing most pro amlo analysts do seem to enjoy the annulment more than a reversal of the results in favor of AMLO, I guess they all know that is never going to happen.

Francisco Cardenas brings the opinion of yet anooooother UNAM Jurist whose opinion is agaaaaaaain that the TRIFE or even the Supreme Court should annul the presidential election, not all the federal election of that particular day, but only the presidential election.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columnas/60016.html

I tell you, UNAM moves when AMLO and PRD move. Oaxaca is pretty much the same. The moment the TRIFE declares Felipe Elected President, the Oaxaca problem will end.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 11:00 PM

Jerry,

You forgot to include all of the PASCifistas, too. These are the MOST despicable of all, moderate leftists with principles.

This morning I had a really good laugh, even if it was politically incorrect. Our neighborhood AMLO rad asked me this morning what kind of recount the PASC was going to ask from the TEPJF; JOTO X JOTO PUTILLA X PUTILLA? Really progressive guy. Wonder if Mr. Gay from today's post was really Emptyboxes dad?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 11:00 PM

K Vronna, to respect people with principles, you must have principles yourself. That kind of disqualifies AMLO, doesn't it?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 11:08 PM

K.Vronna: Shhhhhhhhh! WHy are you forever giving away my little family secrets?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 11:09 PM

Can we say that the attitudes of a candidate or a political party do affect those of their followers?

I am a bit afraid of what we went through in this campaign. PAN was successful at labeling AMLO as a danger. But AMLO was also a bit successful as labeling PAN as the party of the middle classes and the rich.
My hope is that none of this will last and that people will go back to vote thinking on the candidates themselves. I voted PAN myself but I cannot promise anybody my vote. I believe Mexicans cannot make that mistake again.
And I hope that in the next elections we can all go back to the campaigns and read about the candidates and start again, a fresh start, PRD will be a party of hope and not of violence in the mind of the voter, PAN will also be another party, maybe it will represent the continuity or jobs or whatever, but it will not be the party of the rich and powerful interest groups. And I also hope one of the new parties can give us a surprise and grow to become a real challenge to the big parties.

I was happy to see Mercado surpassing Madrazo in the after debate polls.

But this is only hopes.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 11:22 PM

K Vronna, you have hit upon the difference between the responsible, modern thinking left, represented by the PASC, and the old, corporatism/statism represented by populists like AMLO. I have not noticed any hatred emanating from you or other PASC tpes. You have proposals, many of which are wrong, but all of which are well thought out, and you want to discuss them with other well meaning Mexicans. On the other hand, the AMLO type left cannot seem to exist without having someone or something to hate. With Maya, it is the Jews. With your neighbor it is the gays. With a lot of the UNAM types, it is the United States. With others, it is more ephemereal things, like "oppressors", the "rich", Coca Cola, Globalization, foreigners, or the Vatican. But, if you scratch them, basically ALL of AMLO's hard core hate something. It is a rather unpleasant way to live, in my book...

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 11:39 PM

We were at a baseball game in Tecate last night, and one of my drunken friends got a huge laugh out of offering another, insanely drunk, fan free beer for the rest of the game if he would run around the stadium shouting "Voto X Voto, Casilla X Casilla!". The drunk was too smart and refused. Somehow, outside of the DF, that kind of crap just does not fly.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 11:48 PM

AMLO has made a new demand at his planton in the Zocalo. They will not leave until there is a full recount of the planets in the solar system, because the PAN seems to have opened up the galactic urna, and removed some planets, as there are now only eight of them.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 11:55 PM

Jerry B, I stand corrected. AMLO is now my hero!

I see somebody quoted Tom Tancredo earlier. He borders on being a fascist (no lie)!

Posted by: RC | August 26, 2006 12:03 AM

Tom Tancredo is a nut case. If he were Mexican, he would probably get along quite well with AMLO, they are both rather xenophobic and quite afraid of the big bad world outside their respective borders. Unfortunately, he represents a real current in American politics, a current that was given an immense growth potential by the stupid marches of this past May 1.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:12 AM

LOL!!! Good grief Jerry, I almost woke up my son from laughing so hard.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 26, 2006 12:20 AM

I was refering to you "recount of the planets" :-)

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 26, 2006 12:21 AM

Luna X Luna, Planeta X Planeta!!! Everyone knows that Pluto leaned toward the PRD, because AMLO promised to build a bullet train there.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:23 AM

I tell you, it wasn't the PAN, the Jew Abrahán Uhrnaz or the Japanese guy, Tekito Tubo To who rigged the galactic elections, it was maya0! You know how he feels about Plutos.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 12:27 AM

Next thing you know, Pluto will try to get married to Uranus. What is this galaxy coming to, anyway?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:30 AM

Who was that last remark directed to, Jerry? You can't be talking about Uranus with just anybody these days. Get me the Peptol-Bismol, please.

Who is going to be the one(s) that go directly to AMLO to ask him to come to his senses after the ruling by the TEPJF if it favors Calderón? Any guesses?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 12:38 AM

Probably Ebrard, who does not want to see his own future aspirations get flushed down the toilet. Whether AMLO will listen is an open question.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:42 AM

Jerry B, isn't the cibernetic-old-fashioned-"hormiga" fraud against Pluto tragic? Damn you Sabritas and Jumex! Pluto was my favorite planet! Voto x voto, planeta x planeta!

To put an end to the whole nationality thing, article 33 of the constitution doesn't say anything about renouncing to another nationalty in case of naturalization. In fact, the Constitution doesn't say anything about renouncing to some other nationality. Article 33 is only about foreigners' participation in Mexican politics. The article you guys are refering to is article 17 of the Ley de Nacionalidad. Mexicans by birth or sons/daughters of mexicans, born in foreign countries, can have as many nationalities as they like.

Calderón hasn't received congratulations from any left wing government in Latin America. But they haven't publicly expressed their sympathy for AMLO either. I think they know it is a lost cause and it is better to shut up, at least for now. I don't think that the congratulations received by Calderón from Zapatero, Merkel, Blair, the European Union etc. are mistakes. No one lied to them. They have ambassadors here who inform them of what is going on. If they congratulated Calderón, it wasn't because they liked him or because they liked the idea of the PAN ruling the country for six more years. I don't think it goes in that direction. I think it is more as a vow of confidence to the mexican institutions, a vow of confidence to the IFE and to the mexican law. And that, form start, puts some clear boundaries to those who attack the institutions or try to get whatever they want through pressure and not through the instituional channels we have.

Finally, AMLO says he hasn't received hardly any news coverage during the last month. Excuse me, I don't know, is he living in a different country than me? Almost everything in the newspapers, radio shows, tv shows etc. is about AMLO. We discuss everything he says every single day. Every single day is published in almost every newspapers his statements to the press and his speeches. The PRD, despite what they say, is actually the political party with most air time in TV during the campaign. And afterwards it is pretty much the same. Madrazo has disappeared from the face of the earth, Campa is also a no show, Paty Mercado has appeared in a few tv shows and interviews and Calderón has been really discreet during this process. And the fishermen from Nayarit are part of the complot too. How dare they take away the limelight from him?

Posted by: bunburina | August 26, 2006 12:53 AM

I wonder what has happened to Madrazo. Hopefully he is on the way to the permament obscurity he so richly deserves. I would be interested in knowing if there are any polling numbers on how the ten million or so PRI voters would vote in a hipothetical runoff between AMLO and Calderon.

Also, considering both Madrazo and AMLO, I propose a new ammendment to the constitution forbidding natives of the State from Tabasco from holding any elected office whatsoever.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:54 AM

Depends on who's still with AMLO, besides Fdez. Noroña of course. If Monreal goes that might do the trick. But AMLO's not who worries me, it's the rad's playing xtreme political sports, it only takes a few to cause major caos.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 12:55 AM

Good evening felas!

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 12:56 AM

K Vronna, it only takes a few to cause major chaos because we permit them to. The stuff going on in the Zocalo or Oaxaca simply would not be tolerated in any other democracy in the world. The way to register your outrage at the government is to vote the bastards out, not violate the law. We are tolerating this because until 10 years or so ago voting the bastards out was not an option, and "civic resistance" was the only other way to make one's opinion known. Those days are over now. The city of Oaxaca ought to be put under martial law, and the army should be used to open highways and clear out the central plaza. A democratic government has every right to uphold the law, and the constitutional guarentees of ALL its citizens, not just a bunch of long haired wackos with clubs and machetes. Oaxaca would be a great place to start.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 26, 2006 12:59 AM

bunburina & JerryB,

I agree that there isn't anything in article 33 from the Mexican Constitution that prevents any 'terricola' to express his opinion in an american newspaper blog.

But I want to contribute to our law immersion course by suggesting the reading of article 34, specially fraction II, because you'll be surprised to learn that Lopez Obrador and the PRD gang don't fulfill the prerequisites established in this fraction, to be considered as mexican citizens.

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:11 AM

I will save you some time:

"Artículo 34. Son ciudadanos de la República los varones y mujeres que, teniendo la calidad de mexicanos, reúnan, además, los siguientes requisitos:

I. Haber cumplido 18 años, y

II. Tener un modo honesto de vivir."

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:13 AM

I always thought that Martita's sons didn't strike me as very Mexican.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 01:21 AM

So the Constitution says that being born in Lerdo, Dgo., and having a 'credencial de votar' is not enough to be considered a mexican citizen. Am I right?

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:21 AM

that is also true, K.Vronna

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:26 AM

spoiler, actually pretty much 98.9% of Mexico's political class don't fulfill the prerequisite to be mexican citizens. I suggest they move to the now no-planet Pluto.

"Also, considering both Madrazo and AMLO, I propose a new ammendment to the constitution forbidding natives of the State from Tabasco from holding any elected office whatsoever."

Ha! That is a good one. The only exception I can think of is my very good looking political philosophy teacher in college. He's from Macuspana and I would not mind at all seeing him every day in the newspaper's headlines. He made Marx, Rousseau, Sun tzu, Thoreau and Machiavelli sexy to me.

And yes you are right, in every single democratic country public force is used to preserve public order. Chile for example, under Bachelet, has used the same water tanks the PFP have in San Lázaro, to clear away a students meeting that was disturbing the public peace and no one went on to the media to say it was repression.

K. Vronna you are right, I would be seriously worried if Fdz Noroña or Padierna leads the PRD in the upcoming years. Luckily for us all, it seems that the moderates are finally taking over. The new PRD deputies seem to be open for dialogue or so they have claimed so far. But we'll see, you never know...

Posted by: bunburina | August 26, 2006 01:34 AM

The novels are better if you read them to the end. I hope el Peje has the time and the brains to read not only article 39 of the Constitution, but 40 and 41 as well.

"Artículo 40. Es voluntad del pueblo mexicano constituirse en una República representativa, democrática, federal, compuesta de Estados libres y soberanos en todo lo concerniente a su régimen interior; pero unidos en una federación establecida según los principios de esta ley fundamental.

Artículo 41. El pueblo ejerce su soberanía por medio de los Poderes de la Unión, en los casos de la competencia de éstos, y por los de los Estados, en lo que toca a sus regímenes interiores, en los términos respectivamente establecidos por la presente Constitución Federal y las particulares de los Estados, las que en ningún caso podrán contravenir las estipulaciones del Pacto Federal.

La renovación de los poderes Legislativo y Ejecutivo se realizará mediante elecciones libres, auténticas y periódicas..."

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:38 AM

I suppose that when el Peje was a little boy he only read the part that says: "Once upon a time...", and that explains why he didn't like children's tales.

Posted by: spoiler | August 26, 2006 01:49 AM

I am suprised by the ignorance of the editorials and comments by the Washington Post. I think people are beating around the bush. There is a simple question. Was there or was there not electroal fraud?

As one of Mexico's (indeed Latin Americas) main financial fraud auditors, let me throw in my two cents & give me some credit when I say this...

The Mexican electoral system is an extremely tamperproof system (mind you no system is 100% safe). There are at least 7 layers of verficiations and controls to the system. The most important control is the public tally that is made at each polling station. The only effective way to break these controls would be by bribing ALL polling officials (randomly selected public citizens) & PARTY REPRESENTATIVES (AMLO's own people) present at the polling station. That would be in the area of 20 people per polling station in a nation with about 12,000 polling stations (don't remember exact number). Mind you for the fraud to be effective, you would have to alter most if not all polling stations, because if you only alter a few, these would register as statistical anomalies. (All polling stations that break from the average automatically are set aside for a recount- one of the controls I mentioned)

Basically...AMLO`s claim can only be valid if a couple hundred thousand people were bribed. I will be generous and simply state that this extremely unlikely because of the shere magnitude. Please remember NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD TO CLAIM HAVING RECEIVED SAID PAYMENTS OR PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE OF SUCH PAYMENTS. If 250,000 people were bribed, wouldn't you expect at least 1 person to speak up? So where is that person?


Let me conclude. The Mexican electoral system is one of the few that was specifically designed to prevent fraud (most electoral systems are based on convenience tradition, and cost efficiencies). If you cannot trust the Mexican system, then what hope is there for other systems that don't actually have controls? How can you trust German, American, or even Swede elections? What hope is there for democracy if any losing candidate can claim fraud without providing proof?

For all other bloggers... please don't reply citing AMLO's pseudo proof. If you cannot explain precisely how ALL the controls and counter verfification devices were violated I am not interested. I WANT EVIDENCE!

One anomaly is not enough, you need to prove a systematic breakdown of controls to prove fraud.

Ah! And please Washington Post... before you talk nonsense please at least understand the system AMLO is challenging and his basis for doing so. Otherwise you become an irresponsible instrument to difuse ignorance. Quite frankly your ignorance and dare I say lack of proffessional ethics can be dangerous in a volatile environment.

Regards,

Posted by: Armagedon | August 26, 2006 02:59 AM

A UNA DAMA MUY BLANCA, VESTIDA DE VERDE

Cisne gentil, después que crespo el vado
dejó, y de espuma la agua encanecida,
que al rubio sol la pluma humedecida
sacude de las juncias abrigado,

copos de blanca nieve en verde prado,
azucena entre murtas escondida,
cuajada leche en juncos exprimida,
diamante entre esmeraldas engastado,

no tienen que preciarse de blancura
después que nos mostró su airoso brío
la blanca Leda en verde vestidura.

Fué tal, que templó su aire el fuego mío,
y dió, con su vestido y su hermosura,
verdor al campo, claridad al río.

mayaO,
You inpire the fire that that rocks this Ceci cradle. Cheers, senora not yet senorita Tinkerbell, I love to hate you, so I say.


Posted by: rodolfo | August 26, 2006 05:41 AM

Armagedon,

armagedon.
Did you mean Armageddon?

Suggestions:
Armageddon
Armageddon's
amandin
imaged
Actaeon
Armgaunt
Arcadian
arcadian
arcading
Amidin
amidone
Amgun
earmarked
Markdown
markdown
Aketon
mark down
markdown
arm candy
A marked man.

You have entered pointy head country here, sir. There is an Oxford educated country baron of the north wich is an HRH card-carrying relative of hers, an emptyboxes pitbull, a sub commander named K.Vronna, a poesy genius in JerryB, a psychotic Huichol named mayaO, her sister Chiapaneca, one very white bunburina, a voodoo numerologist in Ariel Orellana, a long-absent but not forgotten mayaO-Chiapaneca twin but with intelligence, and a lot more ranting nuts like you and me.

The Mexicans, plus one Brit, have taken over this WPost Ceci's blog.

I have checked your spiel and I like it. Welcome to Mexican post electoral madness.
pasilla and other locos will examine your words and will conclude you must be a Dick Morris plant. Just my kind of mucho loco, you must be, because you're 100% right.


Posted by: rodolfo | August 26, 2006 06:26 AM

Armagedon: You are in deep trouble. The hordes of elsenderodelpendeje.com will hunt you down, they probably already got your IP watermark or are trying hard to find an electoral observer who would go by the nickname of some apocaliptical names.
Plus you have violated Mexican Constitutional Article 33 by intervening agaisnt AMLO and you will be brought to justice and remain incomunicado for the rest of your days. I hope your family will have some DF Officials incriminating videos to defend themselves, else they will be also thrown into a DF jail.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 26, 2006 06:57 AM

A daily meeting at the zocalo with all the acarreados and all the paraphernalia there. There is a lot of money. Me must ask ourselves where all this comes from.

Campaign money, DF money, Venezuela?

Where does it come from? I believe it is time we start demanding these people to clarify this.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 26, 2006 07:43 AM

"Kukiss is your real name? I have to say it is a quite stupid name... and it fits the person who carries it. All your arguments are looney. Seems like you have spent too much time on the phone listening to negative campaign recordings.

Chiapaneco, After I read this comment I started to laugh and laugh reall loud,
it makes me realize that I got you angry just because I critizice AMLO.
It also shows Chiapaneco that you really belong in AMLO'S clan,
AMLO and his followers can be very disrepctfull to others in a lot of different ways,
BUt when others show disrespect to them,
WOW they are screaming of anger!!!!
AND....
I still insist that Felipe Calderon won
because, Most mexicans voted for him!!!!
That is the bottom line!!!
People should consider that Mexico so far regardless of how the government has acted,
Mexicans have freedom.
YES,,, Freedom, !!!!
Freedom that AMLO wants to take away,
Because AMLO claims and claims that he received negative advertisement from the other political parties,
BUT He is now only showing that they were telling the truth!!!!
AMLO IS A DANGER TO MEXICO!!!!!!
REAL MEXICAN CITIZENT ARE TIRED OF HIM!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 26, 2006 10:49 AM

MOst Mexican Citizens wants AMLO To be exiled to a psyquiatric hospital where he can not only be President, HE can also be a KIng!!!
By the way, Chiapaneco at the end of all this,
YOu will remember me and the others ones,
BUt I hope it will not be too late!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 26, 2006 10:52 AM

This comment is to Ceci:
Ceci you mention in your article that
Lopez OBrador and his followers have been living in the tents of the Zocalo and other major cities,
Ceci, I have to correct this...
Lopez Obrador has not been living there,
Lopez Obrador has been staying in a very expensive and luxurious Hotel all this time,
Lopez Obrador only shows ups to his" Conference speeches" and leaves.
The "Called" followers (because most of them now are being paid to stay)
are the only ones living in tents,
but they have to keep bringing new followers all the time too.
By the way, It would be interesting,
Asking AMLO why is it that he sleeps as a King in a hotel, as he claims everybody is equal.
Of course, AMLO wont answer,
As AMLO hates reporters and he does not want to be interviewed,
UPS I forgot, He only hates Mexican Reporters,
He likes American (Univision) and Now
He liks French!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 26, 2006 11:03 AM

Lopez Obrador is always two steps ahead of puppet Calderon and his cronies. Calderon met with some radio journalists and asked them for advice as he wanted to copy Carlos Salinas in his strategy for legitimacy after rigging elections. These are the steps:

1. A "quinazo" or high profile action to feed the supportive media and make the public think Calderon might have the stature to govern even if he did not win the most votes. Lopez Obrador with humor suggests Calderon should put behind bars the Bribiesca brothers and his brother in law Diego Hildebrando Zavala.

2. Alliance with leaders of the PRI to legitimize his presidency. Emilio Gamboa would play the role of Diego Fernandez. Hey! they could even support the idea of burning all the ballots so Mexicans.

3. A supportive media to silence public outcry against the imposition. Ni los veo ni los oigo. Maybe Krauze could also write a soap opera script on El Sinarquismo, as the best thibg that ever happened to Mexico. In this way the country would realize that it is lucky to have as president the heir of a Franquista tradition.

4. A Solidaridad style povery erradication program. Targeted charity used to meet political ends. Dick Morris calls this triangulation, stealing the agenda of the adversary. No real answers to gross inequalities. Just pan y circo distractors.

5. The search for legitimacy abroad. Salinas became Mr. media with NAFTA and a few hand me downs to the PAN. Calderon could very well use the support of the papers who have already bought line by line the negative campaign against Lopez Obrador. I bet the Wall Street Journal would be more than willing to publich praising notes on this soon to be deemed as modernizer.

Sorry Calderon. No imagination. Your consultants are making a lot of dollars but they are not original. No way people will accept the same bs as in 1988. We demand clarity, transparency, certainty. Your refusal to back this claim shows you did not win. No media strategy will change that.

To Armaggedon, you need evidence? pay a visit to www.proceso.com.mx you can also visit www.amlo.org.mx to see what the Coalition in talking about. Gross irregularities citizen groups like Alianza Civica have also denounced after the partial recount. If Televisa is not talking about it that does not make it any less real. Sorry.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 26, 2006 01:49 PM

No anger. Just sadnness. And pity.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 26, 2006 01:50 PM

A message for pasilla and Maya0 there is a very interesting proposal coming from Barcelona in Jaime Aviles blog to help end partial and biased perceptions of the post-electoral crisis abroad.


http://www.lahoradelpueblo.blogspot.com/


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 26, 2006 02:18 PM

Could someone please give roldofo his medicice? Is he going nuts or what the hell?

I've decided to expand my kid's list, so now my new sons are daughters are:

emptyboxes, roldolfo, Jerry B, K.Vronna and say hi to Kukiss who can kiss my azteca-zapoteca ass!

love, your mom

Posted by: La Chingada | August 26, 2006 02:19 PM

Mom! Why did you put toloache in my brother Andrés Manuels's tea?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 02:40 PM

The IMO, Instituto de Marketing y Opinion has published in its webpage the report of its exitpoll. All data coincides with IFE results: participation percentage and the voting for PRI etc... The only discrepancy is regarding the winner of the most votes. For IMO, the winner is Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

The informe also explains a lot of irregularities in IFE's countings.

http://www.imocorp.com.mx/Inicio/Estudios/07-06/Presentacion_Nacional.pdf

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 26, 2006 02:45 PM

No, Martita Sahagun has bought all toloache sold in Mexico. No more toloache , the brujos of Catemaco say.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 26, 2006 02:54 PM

I don't doubt that the Bruja de los Pinos has tried to corner the entire market, but you can't beat those Chinese, they always find a way to get their contraband goods into the country.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 03:09 PM

Soy hijo de la mala vida. I couldn´t stay away.

Armagedon:

1. Agree with your main conclusion, but it is possible, that without fraud, the results of the counting, even with, as you say, the 7 layers of verification, could show an error when the difference between the two contenders is so small at 0.58%. Even very strict confidence intervals, in the statistical sense could show variations. But recounting again, vote by vote, may in itself not produce the exact result of the 2nd of July vote....no one knows what has happened to the ballot boxes since then...even if they have been kept under lock and key, this would add another dimension to the error in the statistical sample. Even IMO the agency quoted by Chiapaneco, in their own site, show the analysis by an independent analyst Wolf Luis Mochán Backal, who says and I quote:
http://www.imocorp.com.mx/Analisis_PREP_2006[1].pdf

"The real value is defined by the final count and the winner of the PREP or exit polls is only circumstantial." And in other IMO, studies they show differences between their exit polls and the final tallies. The closeness of this election complicated matters. AMLO is stuck on the idea that IMO told him he was the winner and he wants to confuse this with the final result.

2. I have been reading a two tome series called "Presidentes Mexicanos" published by the Instituto Nacional de Estudios Históricos de la Revolución Mexicana and whose coordinator is the well regarded Will Fowler. It appears that what is happening now, has happened in the main before, and that the danger to Mexican governance appears to be less than in other occasions:

a)Guadalupe Victoria, the first president after the independence from Spain, and the short lived Iturbide "Empire", considered to be a not very effective, obscure first president, whose power was zero at the end of his term of office was ready to hand over power. Elections take place and an obscure politician Gomez Pedraza is elected. Vicente Guerrero, hero of the Independence movement, does not like this, he starts his own military movement, and finally he is installed as president. The two opposing political forces were the masons: the liberal york rite supporting Guerrero and the conservative Scottish rite supporting Gomez Pedraza. This habit of not respecting the election process would create a process of 50 years of instability in the country until the election of Porfirio Díaz (under the banner of no-reelection because of Juárez repeated stay in power)
b)Another time when a similar situation took place, of course, was when Madero revolted against Díaz (who put Madero in jail because he feared Madero would win in the election---signs of the desafuero). Victoriano Huerta with the help of Felix Díaz the brother of Porfirio, made a coup against Madero and proclaimed himself president again creating a period of instability until the presidency of Plutarco Elías Calles who created the PNR, the direct ancestor of the PRI, and then created now not a personal dictatorship but the dictatorship of a party.

Today off we go in another attempt at screwing up the institutions, faulty though they may be, which will probably generate another period of instability.

Unless, unless, this vicious cycle is broken with the emergence of strong governors, and brave legislators, that leave the political and justice balance in the hands of the federal government, and slowly, oh so slowly transfer the creative and developmental power to the sovereign states in Mexico.

Nothing strange about what is going on today in presidential politics. The phoenix should rise at the states' and community levels...waking the people to power.


Posted by: Viper | August 26, 2006 04:08 PM

Mrs. emptyboxes Mum,

Such grandness of misery, yours. Such plaintive longing, yours a prayer seeking nothing special.

Will my lifting of gladness, with utmost force create from this communion sopor and remorse.

You are a foreign brute to our delicate orations. Your scrupulous accuracy of definition confounds no one. Keep your dramatic spectacles, naturally exhausting, away from this Parnassus.

Let the quiet extasy that profound cavilation make us Authors obey the voices within. I shall have no light through the darkness of your diatribe, through which your erring stumbles.

Superfluous incense to salute you. You were found in trouble by the wayside. It makes no jealousy that you would seize the pillars of human good and turn our places of joy into a buried never rising Zocalo.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 26, 2006 04:31 PM

This blogger has an ongoing rant about Mexico's election madness. The rant below is at the bottom of the page.


This is not 1988 (or 1968) - Mexican Election Post #18

MALO staged a set of sit ins yesterday in Mexico City to "explain" to the Mexican people how he and his supporters would not expect anything but a victory (no matter what the count). His thinking is evidently to influence the tribunal that is trying to sort out the claims and counter-claims relating to the very close election.

In earlier times the strategy which MALO is playing out would be very effective. Mexico was a very centralized country. The Mexican Navy is based in a city that has no places to put the ships. A lot of communication - financial, transportation, service - is routed through the Federal District. Road systems and airlines seem to route through Mexico City.

In 1968, when a group of students wanted to press some issues and the then president of Mexico did not want to show badly with the then upcoming Olympics, a demonstration that turned ugly and by some was known as the Night of Tlatelolco. The demonstrations got violent - in part created by government agents and Ordaz was able to quiet the furor at the excess show of force. It was logical to pursue that strategy when Mexico City was the center of the Mexican universe. Under the PRI, centralization was a key element of the political system. It was a hierarchial system.

Beginning in 1988, that began to change, as it did all around the world. Listen to Kenichi Ohmae, who concidentially (at least for me) became a worldwide figure around the time of the 1988 election. Ohmae formulated, in a series of excellent books on the notion of the decline of the nation state. He talked about customers, corporations and competitors. He was also very thoughtful about the changes in relationships that all of us now take for granted. His writings anticipated the decline in the importance of hierarchies. That trend did not expose itself in all places at the same time. In the 1988 election, in a potential last gasp of the PRI hierarchy, Cardenas (the Grandfather of the PRD) lost an election in what some observers called the "long count." Cardenas was winning at one point in the count the screens and the IBM computer doing the count went down and then when they came back up Carlos Salinas became the winner. There was a lot of speculation that the PRI manipulated the results.

In the 1994 election, the PRI seemed to be in control again. They elected Ernesto Zedillo. The PRI thought they had a continuation of their then 60+ years of rule of the country. But Zedillo was not exactly what they thought he was. Zedillo should be credited as an important transition president. During his time, the country began to change, ever so slowly. An election commission (the IFE) was created. Economic growth began to flourish. But in the middle of Zedillo's six year term change began to get out of the PRI's hands. A couple of states went to alternative parties. And then in 2000 in a major change the country elected Vicente Fox.

By any account Fox has not met expectations. Economic growth has been slower than expected. There are still some significant monopolies controlled by the government. But the trend started in 2000 has continued unabated. Over the last couple of years I have worked with a couple of state governors in Mexico who are evidence of the new trend. They are not all members of one party. What they have in common is a group of talented cabinet secretaries and staff and a strong commitment to make the Mexican federal system real.

Some transitions, when the ruling party ran a system for more than 70 years, take some time to be fulfilled. But I believe the forces that began to be explained by Ohmae and were visible in Mexico with actions by Zedillo and Fox are continuing in Mexico. MALOs denial of those trends may be at his own peril.

So what might be the effects of MALOs disruptions of Mexico City? As I see it there are a couple of high possibilities. The first might be some anger in the provinces. It is unlikely that these demonstrations will bring the nation together, indeed, some of those governors and their constituents are likely to work all the harder to implement their vision of Mexican federalism. A second possibility is that the protests could cower the Tribunal into submission to offer something to MALO. But even if they offer him the election (which I believe to be unlikely) the first trend is unlikely to be abated. Third, the disruptions in Mexico City could encourage economic producers to begin to figure out how to integrate their activities outside of the DF. Ohmae wrote impressively about the importance of commercial dyads. For example, he argued that the relationship between Tijuana and San Diego is stronger than the tie between Mexico City and Tijuana or Washington, DC and San Diego. The commercial relationships continue to build - in spite of Telmex and Pemex and other monopolies - across borders.

In any event, even if Calderon is awarded the election he won, he will need to think carefully about how to govern. MALO is not likely to go away, even if some of his supporters are willing to begin to oppose his tactics. But my impression is that Calderon is a lot more practical than Fox and his colleagues were. I expect he will be a bit more effective than Fox. MALO should recognize that the conditions that spawned 1968 and 1988 are simply less important than they were.

Tuesday, August 1, 2006

http://drtaxsacto.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_drtaxsacto_archive.html


Posted by: rodolfo | August 26, 2006 05:42 PM

rodolfito mijito,

I'll say it again, that mental diarrhea is making me worry.

have your sister K. Vronna give you some of her pepto sometimes works really well on her.

in the meantime I have some stuff to do, get well.

your mom

Posted by: La Chingada | August 26, 2006 05:57 PM

This piece by drtaxsacto mentions some interesting points in that the local dyads, especially on the borders, are overtaking the governments in responding to the needs of the population. These movements are local and at the same time imply global effects. Human needs will always find a method to obtain satisfaction, even if this method is sometimes distorted by interference by politics. More leeway in local spending discretion and a solid foundation of laws and guarantees at the national level is only logical in a country that has such drastic differences in the socio-economic status of its regions.

The idea of the dyads is well presented in this book:

An Empire Wilderness
Travels Into America's Future
By ROBERT D. KAPLAN

Thanks to Viper, too for returning to contribute to the discussion and especially for this remark:

"The phoenix should rise at the states' and community levels...waking the people to power."

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 26, 2006 06:33 PM

Viper,

This election was foremost a test of Mexican societys' transition into a more mature and stable political society.

Lopez was the people's choice for echeverrismo melancholics. Calderon represented a continuance of "humanistic" government where the presidential figure was less and less referee in any and all disputes.

The people chose a continuity, if by a whisker.

2006 Mexico is not 1988 Mexico, the old authoritorianism has been replaced with a flexible and less influential Executive branch. This curious electoral "crisis" is just a long impasse that is stipulated by law. The normal life of the country continues, despite rumblings and stridency by Lopez and his followers. The peso is stable, there are no runs on bank deposits, the stock market is fine.

Congress will start its work as scheduled and sooner rather than later Lopez will become a windbag joke, like that opportunist Porfirio Munoz Ledo.

Mexican society withstood with aplomb and great display of adult patience this next step in affirming that the old ways are behind us and a more grown up democracy will not sell on the cheap to a sore loser's ranting.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 26, 2006 07:43 PM

rodolfo you are Brilliant! I enjoyed it much.
Viper, great post.
K.Vronna: I highly recommend these two great fellas for a rank promotion. Please do consider this motion.

Rodolfo: I would attempt to add some along the line of what you posted, though not as valuable as your own post.

-Our dear Republic and its most precious institutions have been spared from the horrible consequences of an authoritarian despot who would have gotten himself re-elected time and time again. Another Hugo Chavez. He is now demonstrating to all of us the kind of democracy he stands for. The street democracy. The daily offense, the violence in the words that encite to physical violence.

And yes, "The people chose a continuity, if by a whisker." But the people also chose to look at the future.

Mexico doesn't want to be like Cuba or Venezuela. We don't want abstract socialism. We don't want radicalizations, conflicts, dogmatism.

I foresee a modern Mexico in a few years. And I believe Felipe Calderon and a coalition will be key to this Mexico we want.

They will pass the reforms this country needs so much. They have to, society is demanding them.

But the left will have its day in the son. And it will be a modern, responsible and social democrat left.

And then our country will be complete.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 26, 2006 08:36 PM

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Posted by: Post a Comment | August 26, 2006 08:55 PM

Rodolfo, emptyboxes, K. Vronna

Ohmae, dyads, "the responsible left will have its day in the sun" and even Robert D.Kaplan´s contributions (though I don´t like his penchant for war) are just cool contributions.

I think we will know by Tuesday, what the Tribunal will decide...

I feel the love......!

Although reading El Universal, today seemed like every writer was focusing on how fundamental it was that we count each vote again.....Muñoz Ledo (beating the heck out of Fox, for being so stupid)has, of course, forgotten that he stood beside Fox on the day that Zedillo made "el madruguete" and declared Fox the winner. I guess, he left his erstwhile friend Cuauhtémoc before, easily he can do it again; Raynmundo Riva Palacio (a descendant of Vicente Guerrero, and of an apologist for Porfirio, Vicente Riva Pala
cio, and of the first chairman of the PNR the direct antecedent of the PRI) thinks that urban guerrillas are operating in the Zocalo and in Oaxaca signaling that Mexico is in for a period of unrest. He also seems to imply that a vote by vote recount is important. He has never come out and said it, but I think he favors AMLO. Proceso and La Jornada, are, of course, on the side of the full re-count.

Fox will probably have to play a key role in negotiating AMLO out of additional hanky panky. I believe that whatever he negotiates he will appeal to the
moderate PRD leadership in the legislature and possiblyCuauhtémoc Cárdenas and his son Lázaro, the governor of Michoacán. All of this assumes that the Tribunal will declare Felipe Calderón president. Ebrard, has the presidency on his mind, for the future. So he will probably begin the disassociation with AMLO, más rápido que pronto. Funny how Chiapas seems to have gone by the wayside, and how maybe Tabasco will start getting warm.

Once the dismantling occurs in the Zócalo, then they will fix Oaxaca.

Fox may still leave with a blaze of glory. The bookend president: brilliant at the beginning, brilliant at the end, drab in between.
I'll get back to dyads in Google scholar and Ohmae ('cause apparently region states now are not only proximate regions but also virtual regions, interesting concept)
Thanks for the posts.


Posted by: Viper | August 26, 2006 11:35 PM

Stay away from emptyboxes and Co or I will kick your naco-PRD asses

Bunch of illiterate mexican-indians-pro-PRD

if you are dumb-stupid-rude therefore you most love AMLO

Posted by: Post a Comment | August 27, 2006 12:00 AM

La chi.... Your name also says it all,
But I laugh and laugh
Because my theory of AMLO and his followers acting the same way,
It proves to be right.
You too get very angry at me or anybody that tells you that Felipe Calderon is the best choice for Mexico right now.
Felipe Calderon is intelectual, educated, smart, and the bottom line...
He got more mexicans to vote for him.
Felipe Calderon is our next president!!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 27, 2006 12:54 AM

Rodolfo:
I have been reading your comments and
I have noticed that you have a lot of knowledge in politics and Mexican History.
IT seems that you also are one of the few,
here in this blog,
that gets very well documented before posting something.
Not like the non-intellectual perredistas here, that only know how to post their intellectual vulgar language.

Posted by: Kukiss | August 27, 2006 12:59 AM

Armagedeon,
I miss your comments,
I agree with you. The International media should know the truth as it is...
I told Ceci that there is mistake in her comment when she says...
Lopez Obrador and his followers are camping...
Lopez Obrador is not camping as his loyal followers are, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AMLO is sleeping as a King in a Luxurious Hotel,
I just hope that Ceci investigates next time so first readers that read her comments wont think that Poor AMLO is also sacrifizing...
AMLO wants sacrifices from others only!!!!
I only give a STAR to AMLO...
He is very good as a brainwasher because he gets people to do it stupid things!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 27, 2006 01:12 AM

Juan Sabines Guerrero,
Another lyer for the government.
He has different identities, and now
He is found to have lied about falsifying
the requirements to became a PRD governor
in Chiapas.
Again, THE PRD's corruption is discovered,
But again, AMLO would say,
IT IS ANOTHER COMPLOT AGAINST US!!!
All discovered corruptions and lies
are COMPLOTS!!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 27, 2006 01:19 AM

rodolfo, I love you. Your August 26, 2006 06:26 AM post made me laugh so hard like you have no idea... and I love the fact that you quoted Kenichi Omahe.

That is exactly what I find so disturbing about AMLO's campaign proposals. He claims that what Mexico needs is some sort of neo-nationalism and strong statism. He demonstrated that he just doesn't care about the world outside tiny Mexico by saying that the best foreign policy is domestic policy. My worries come from the idea that, in case of being president, he would have tighten a rope that is already about to break. The nation-state is a being that is slowly morphing into something else and that has lost the presence and the power it used to have 50-100 years ago. By strengthening the traditional powers of the State, we are going against a world wide trend that might actually drift us further away from progress. And like K. Vronna said, people are filling up for the duties the State is unable to fulfill anymore. That's why so many international organizations, for all sorts of topic, have emerged. That's why civilians have taken over in areas governments used to have a complete monopoly. As much as I admire the European Union for what they have achieved, it is a well documented fact that the main problem the EU is facing right now is the incredible amount of euro-beauraucracy they sustain and the democratic deficit it produces. Regular people have a little knowledge of what actually is going on the high spheres of power of the EU and, therefore, this rests power to the foundations of the EU, which is the poeple. That is a direct consequence of the enormous and complicated state-like beauraucratical organization the EU has. The option for the future is, without a doubt, more descentralization of power.

And like rodolfo pointed out, the consequences of this trend are visible in Mexico. Investments are already moving away from the DF and other mayor cities to smaller cities like Aguascalientes. According to the World Bank, Aguascalientes is the #1 destiny for foreign investment in 2006 in Mexico. The reasons are varied, but the main ones are the quality of life, public security, a good local legal system, tax incentives and certainty that their investments are going to be secured. Aguasclientes has a very flexible yet effective government and that attracts investment.

Posted by: bunburina | August 27, 2006 02:49 AM

I haven´t gone away, .......


I´m just watching.


Lord Windsor should be back soon, still wanting to know the answers to previous questions.

Is my wife now a "non person" under Art 33, havinging married a Brit, or can she do what she wants?

Posted by: PeterN | August 27, 2006 03:19 AM

Truth is not always pretty,
but it allows people to make better choices.
Spending millions of dollars handing cash out to the poor sounds too good to be true for people who care about the poor and accept simplistic answers.
However, economies have been punished when the government overspends. See Argentina. They were once one of the richest countries in the entire western hemisphere. In the 1980's and 1990's there were spending machines though and now they are behind Mexico and Brazil in terms of wealth. Why? They spend money like drunken AMLO's. The government defaulted. The currency could not be held at a tie to the dollar. Investors fled, banks closed, and inflation skyrocketed.
Mexico has had enough economic crises, including the debt crisis of the 1980's.
Why promise social spending before making the economy grow more quickly?
Mexico needs to make more money before it can spend more money.
Unfortunately, people like AMLO know that most people do not understand economics. Some people only understand that giving cash to the poor sounds nice to their ears.
People who truly care about the poor and understand economic realities should look for leftist leaders like Lula in Brazil. He gave food to the poor. That gives poor people a meal to nourish them rather than a check to make them dependent on or worse.
AMLO would rather win by promising that he has answers rather than saying what these answers actually are.
He would rather say he has proof of fraud than showing the actual proof (maybe this is because he tried showing the videos that were meant to convince people of fraud and his own pool watchers explained that the PRD's interpretation of the videos was wrong).
He would rather accuse his own poll watches, the IFE, Vicente Fox, and independent observers of fraud so that he may have another shot at the presidency than to explain any real solutions to minimize future election irregularities. This is because he is not an impartial patriot. He is absorbed in his candidacy and his own personal visions. A patriot would take his lumps, swallow his pride, and suggest ways for Mexico to move on with real solutions... not try to bring the 2/3 of Mexico that voted against him down below him.
Elections are never pretty, but as international observers pointed out, they revealed the truth. Not like in Georgia and in Ukraine, where international observers noted massive fraud. Each party can rightfully be expected to try to make numbers make them look better. But after the election resutls come out, they are also supposed to accept victory or defeat gracefully. Next election, the losing party can then move on to offering people a better choice next time around. For the loser that may not be pretty, but it is the truth.

Posted by: eljefejesus | August 27, 2006 05:05 AM

Your Lordship,

Since you have very srange posting hours and for that reason I know no one will be reading this, I would like to say to you Oxe's ford Brilliant One, that my George Elliotesque post to Mrs. emptyboxes's mum is the result of my stumbling into this page:

http://www.geonius.com/eliot/#Middlemarch

It's not straight plagiarizing because I used phrases that I put together in a different context and for a different use. I thought using quotation marks after I had already posted the Aug. 26 4:31 PM entry.

emptyboxes, Kukiss, I'm not brilliant or actually do any research, BUT I WIKI!

The last sentence of that same post ends abruptly. I would modify it this way:

It makes no jealousy that you would seize the pillars of human good and turn our places of joy into a buried never rising malodorous den our proud democracy called El Zocalo.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 06:28 AM

rodolfo you are brilliant and you may try, however unsuccessful, to sell yourself but it will not change the fact you are brilliant.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 27, 2006 07:01 AM

I love these UNAM Jurist who try so hard to give AMLO the right to self declare himself president. Notice how this imbecile Carranca y Rivas, who is suppose to be a jurist and constitutionalist expert, actually says "si el Tribunal Electoral se va por "la cuestión codiguera y leguleya"". These hypocrites not only defend AMLO's actions against the constitution but they actually quote him! What a pair of imbeciles El Universal interviewed, no wonder why El Universal was one of the few newspapers not vetoed by AMLO.

Check out the bs for yourself.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/142244.html

"nte la complejidad de esos procesos que se plantean dentro del conflicto postelectoral, Carranca y Rivas exhortó a que el fallo del Tribunal Electoral del Poder Judicial de la Federación transparente la elección presidencial.

"Soy partidario de la contabilidad total de los votos, con las consecuencias que esto traiga, como podría ser la anulación abstracta y convocar a nuevas elecciones", dijo Carrancá.

Estas son horas "angustiosas" por el problema electoral, agregó, "y entiendo que la furia llevó a López Obrador a decir fuera de toda lógica, que será Presidente y a extrapolar el artículo 39. No puede cambiar -agregó Carrancá- la forma de gobierno en una simple reunión de plaza pública".

Ante las graves y serias dudas de la elección -que es el motor del movimiento de la coalición-, si el Tribunal Electoral se va por "la cuestión codiguera y leguleya", no va a satisfacer los reclamos de gran parte de un México dividido en dos, consideró.

Su colega Cárdenas Gracia remarca que la vía de la transformación pacífica llegará hasta donde apoyen los sectores sociales."

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 27, 2006 07:11 AM

PeterN:

You have the right under Article 1 to all the benefits of the constitution except those restricted only to citizens.

You have the right to give your opinions without anyone questioning you, unless you perturb the public order, and do immoral things, according to art. 6.

You can write and publish anything you want under art. 7.

You can petition and even get together for any purpose other than a political one according to art. 8 and 9, and 33...the word "inmiscuirse" here goes beyond writing and giving opinions, it actually involves specific activities designed to change the policies of the nation, the state or the community. This is a bit unclear, obviously. Because what constitutes political activity is a flexible definition and it would depend on the official. One could argue that the foreign lady journalists kicked out of Mexico after the Atenco fiasco were kicked out extra constitutionally. Nevertheless, your right to write and opine is inviolable.

Your wife´s rights and obligations as a citizen of Mexico are unaffected by her being married to a non Mexican person.

There have been modifications to the law. Now Mexican born foreigners can obtain their Mexican nationality (the law makes a distinction between nationality and citizenship, the former does not require that the person reside in the country nor that you be of a certain age, nor that you work in an honest activity, the latter does require you to meet this criteria. The latter, that is the citizen, can vote. The former, the one who holds nationality, does not necessarily vote.

By the act of having married a mexican you can have the naturalization process and citizenship. You do not lose your citizenship in the UK, if you decide to take Mexican citizenship--for two reasons, the Mexican authorities recognize you can have various passports, and as a UK citizen you never lose your citizenship.

So, do not listen to anyone restricting your right to say anything. Of course, the other problem is that sometimes authorities act extra constitutionally and to redress these acts, the process to do so is still pretty fuzzy. That is why, judicial reform, should be one of the main priorities of the new president.

I am in the process of getting a beer...this time a French beer, a Kronenbourg (which is really not french anymore, since a British company bought it a few years ago, Scottish & Newcastle, the proud makers of Courage from Edinburgh)

Posted by: Viper | August 27, 2006 10:10 AM

Despite the obvious irregularities, ballot boxes missing or open or empty. Too many votes in one polling place, not enough in another.
I repeat that the only reason why the "winner" wouldn't want a recount is because they are hiding something.

I have no doubt however that they will declare Calderon the President, I also have no doubt that the struggle will continue..

Posted by: manesso | August 27, 2006 10:29 AM

Why is it when the same thing was happening in Ukraine all the media outlets, especially the Washington Post, were making the plight of the opposition front page news?? Of course it wouldn't be because the American government outlines the "talking Points" that the owners (FOX=Murdoch)pass onto their reporters to use.

It's always so obvious. words like
-leftist-messianic-populist-chavez like-alleged fraud- unemployed protesters- criminals gangs-holding democracy hostage

Posted by: Manesso | August 27, 2006 10:38 AM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 11:52 AM

emptyboxes,

The fact that I own the company you work for doesn't mean you have to grovel for a raise.

Thank you for the compliment which I much appreciate.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 11:57 AM

ps. I love you

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 12:43 PM

manesso,

One thing is to struggle for your cause and another juoin the contest and if you don't like the results go on to change the rules to your convenience.

It's not up to Calderon to oreder or press for a recount. The rules say that only TEPJF and ONLY TEPJF can order a recount.

Lopez's foolish tactics have relegated his "struggle" to Marcos caliber wishful thinking. The emerging Mexico after 2000 is not a monarchy-style rule by decree bacause Mr. Big says so. We've had all of the last century for that autocratic foolery.

You might not like it but Mexico has grown up.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 12:49 PM

The Aug. 26 12:43 PM entry was not posted by me.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 01:05 PM

check that: The Aug. 27 12:43 PM entry was not by me.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 01:09 PM

by the way, in my 5am post I was talking about the country of Georgia where there were irregularities that were significant enough for international observers to declare to constitute real fraud - not just a little numbers game.
The numbers don't have to be perfect; that would itself be a sign of fraud if a real and messy process like an election came out too beautifully. There are always numbers that are contradicatory, and there is always minor fraud by local party loyalists (ahem, PRD) who place party above country.
However, unlike the country of Georgia and the Ukrain in the past, Mexico fell into the clean category. That is unnaceptable to the loser, AMLO. To him this means that then and therefore the impartial international observers must have been in on some incredible and widespread conspiracy. The only conspiracy was that mroe than 2/3 of Mexicans conspired to vote against him.
The scary thing is that after his movement dies, there will always be another charamatic populist playing his pipe and leading his people off a cliff. Why are we Mexicans born such lemmings and so reluctant to educate ourselves enough to avoid the fate?

Posted by: eljefejesus | August 27, 2006 02:51 PM

eljefejesus: What you don't understand is that on July 2 the Fox government, PAN and its allies, all of the right wingers of this country commanded an army of more than 130 thousand invisible little blue smurfs who worked the numbers in the ballots to favor Felipe Calderon. It was an evil fraud carried out at the smallest microscopical level, 1 vote more for Calderon in a little casilla in a Yucatan little town in the jungle, another vote for AMLO nullified in another little casilla somewhere in the Sonora desert. Those evil smurfs!

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 27, 2006 03:38 PM

Viper:

Thank you very much for putting that information in plain English. I am now free to opinion, and my wife to do what she wants, not that either of us ever gives a cent to any political party.

I always suspect people who like to use the "rules and regulations" to counter free speech, like when at university, the student socialists knew all the smallest details of "Student Union Constituition" , and would use the smallest detail to hold up a process if it wasn´t going their way.

Most democracies allow a small amount of flexibility in their laws, if it is "in the spirit, if not, the letter of the law". Some change parts to allow future events to happen: I understand that in 1993 the rule that said no Mexican born with one foreign parent could become president was removed or altered, hence allowing Fox (mother Spanish?) to become president.

Lord Windsor was in the process of writing one of his observations last night, after the last post, but he was distracted by two things hot and wet, of which only one was English beer!

Viper, have you tried the english brown beers? If you, or anyone, gets over there , see if you can find "Black Sheep", a beer you´ll remember in your grave. Normally found in "Gods own county" Yorkshire.

rodolfo: keep on posting in the free world!

Quite soon the results will be official, Calderon will be President, and AMLO will try to start his revolution. He´s been making a laughingstock out of Mexico in the international world, and has probably cost this country several billion dollars of investment, along with thousands of jobs. The sooner we get on with building a future for this country, the sooner we won´t need politicians who base their campaign on handing out money, as opposed to creating opportunities.

Posted by: PeterN | August 27, 2006 03:42 PM

PeterN: If you ever have a chance to come to Monterrey you might want to stop by The Sierra Madre Brewing Co.,http://www.smbc.com.mx They make some very taste Ale, they have them Stout and Porter.

I like the beers there. I usually go there once a month and it is kind of like an English Pub, Mexican version.

The beers are made in the house, every restaurant has got its own brewery. They have them English style, black and creamy Ale, and the also have some Regio style, light.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 27, 2006 04:00 PM

emptyboxes and PeterN:

It turns out that the traditional Theakston, the ancestor of Black Sheep was taken over by Scottish & Newcastle, and in 1992, a relation started Black Sheep in the town of Masham (pronounced Mashim)in York. The brewmaster came from the old Bass brewery (now Coors Brewing)in Burton upon Trent. I will have to try it tonight.

http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000133.html

The Sierra Madre pub is really great. Great food and great beer.

But even Cervecería Cuauhtémoc Moctezuma has great beer...Indio, Bohemia, Nochebuena, XX.....much better than the very watered down Corona beer, brewed by the competitor. But only for a balanced view, I must say that Modelo´s Pacífico, Estrella and Montejo are really great. Hey, just my opinion. All of them better than the traditional large companies here in the US. Though there are some great small breweries.


Some announcements on Monday, maybe only on the 9% recount. Probably still not all the impugnaciones.

This waiting period is almost over but for the wrappers. I hope the PRI wins in Tabasco.

But AMLO, will probably not go quietly into the sunset.

Calderón should extend his arms towards Patricia Mercado and SubComandante Marcos, alias, Delegado cero. And obviously, towards key governors....Zacatecas, Michoacán, Chihuahua, BCS, Sonora and the State of Mexico.

Posted by: Viper | August 27, 2006 04:37 PM

Lord Windsor,

Article 33 is a specific law to remove from Mexico political interlopers and troublemakers that directly participate in Mexican politics. At the same time it is no secret that Mexican politicians consult and are advised by foreign experts in every aspect of the political process.They are not breaking any law.

The Mexican constitution has a broader principle that benefits any and all PERSONS: The people's universal human right of expression regardless of ethnicity, NATIONALITY, gender, age, social status, health, religion. Any action that has a purpose to harm human dignity or lessen or withdraw rights and liberties of people is penalized. The human right and liberties of individuals are above article 33.

The constitution is to be read as a system of that works in contex of the other articles in it. You do not apply articles in isolation, like Lopez is arguing about art. 39, and become "president" in a Peoples Assembly. Mexicans have already elected that jolly assembly on July 2, it's called Congress.

You say Mexico is the laughing stock of the world. As soon as the TEPJF gives their verdict only one fool and his plantonistas are going to look funny. We'll all join the world in laughter.

When most peolpe talk about applying art. 33 it looks a lot like ominous bigotry and has that peculiar persecution whiff of a lynching.

The universal human rights of individuals will always supercede the narrow scope of art. 33.

The text below makes reference to all persons.

QUEDA PROHIBIDA TODA DISCRIMINACION MOTIVADA POR ORIGEN ETNICO O NACIONAL, EL GENERO, LA EDAD, LAS CAPACIDADES DIFERENTES, LA CONDICION SOCIAL, LAS CONDICIONES DE SALUD, LA RELIGION, LAS OPINIONES, LAS PREFERENCIAS, EL ESTADO CIVIL O CUALQUIER OTRA QUE ATENTE CONTRA LA DIGNIDAD HUMANA Y TENGA POR OBJETO ANULAR O MENOSCABAR LOS DERECHOS Y LIBERTADES DE LAS PERSONAS.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 27, 2006 05:46 PM

Once again, thanks rodolfo,

Posted by: PeterN | August 27, 2006 05:56 PM

PeterN and Rodolfo:

I just came back from enjoying a Black Sheep Ale. You were right.

A small issue on the idea that greater principles control the Constitution; there isn´t agreement on this point:

Example; the Supreme Court recently ruled that it could not deal with the matter of genocide during the student uprisings of 1968 and 1971, because the law dealing with this issue was passed after these occurrences. Please see this article:
http://www2.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=125918&tabla=nacion_h

But another expert says that The international treaty against genocide was approved by Mexico without reservations in 1952 prior to the events, so that in her opinion, the Supreme Court should have allowed the trials to proceed.
http://www2.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=125917&tabla=nacion_h

So there are some gray areas in the Constitution....Can AMLO call for a People´s Assembly and declare himself a president? Article 39 says that the people can change their form of government and article 136 says that no matter if the Constitution is interrupted in its application because of an uprising, it will always be valid. The hierarchy of principles is not clear.

However, I do not believe for one moment that a so called Assembly, managed by AMLO, with his huge manual for control and organization, was the intention of the framers of the constitution when they wrote Article 33, which, by the way, was taken from the Constitution of 1857. The present constitution allows for amendments. And these require a process that includes both legislative chambers and the legislatures of the States.

In all fairness, though, what are the mother principles are not clear in the Constitution.

It is a small point, I realize. But one that the wiley peje has pinched in his dream of being the prez.

Posted by: Viper | August 27, 2006 09:05 PM

Indicios de una revolución

Se respira un aire tenso, el ambiente es de crisis, se acerca el 6 de Septiembre. Con la victoria de Juan Sabines en Chiapas la resistencia cobra fuerza y Andrés Manuel López Obrador el domingo 27 de Agosto advirtió que si el Tribunal Electoral no les da la victoria esto "significaría una ruptura y un golpe de estado, lo cual es inaceptable para millones de mexicanos" reporta La Jornada en su edición virtual este domingo.

La tensión crece y los indicios de una revolución empiezan a inquietar a los observadores. AMLO ha manifestado, muy claramente, que esta preparado para "movilizarse" y rechazar la imposición de Felipe Calderón, acusa al Presidente Fox de "traidor de la democracia" y exige un recuento total de los votos, de no ser así advierte, que esta preparado a convocar al pueblo mexicano a una Convención Nacional el 16 de Septiembre para decidir el futuro de México, fecha histórica que marca el inicio del movimiento de independencia en ese país.

AMLO pinta como insurgente. Desde el centro de México, dentro de su cuartel en el Zócalo, se prepara leyendo las obras de José Vasconcelos, líder intelectual de la revolución mexicana, de acuerdo al periodista Adam Thompson del Financial Times. Tal como Vasconcelos, que llamó a un movimiento revolucionario en 1929 después de haber perdido su elección presidencial frente a Pascual Ortiz Rubio, AMLO se prepara para movilizarse si es que el Tribunal Electoral le da la victoria al panista Felipe Calderón. Convoca al pueblo a decidir el futuro de México y su gobierno. En su Convocatoria a la Convención Nacional Democrática llama a los mexicanos a responder a la imposición del candidato de la derecha y protege su causa de cambiar el gobierno en base al Articulo 39 de la Constitución.

Posted by: Hilodirecto | August 27, 2006 09:05 PM

Question for the foristas:

What is bigger?
The love of AMLO for Mexico?
or
His hate for all things not PRD or even not alligned with his policy?

I believe this question will determine where he and his followers take Mexico

saludos cordiales
Blue Demon

Posted by: blue demon | August 27, 2006 11:26 PM

AMLO's convention is another silly joke. Luckily for all of us it's being organized by AMLO, so we can guess how far it is going to get.
Normaly with AMLO you have to divided every number he says by 10 and then divided whatever result you get by 2 or 3 and then you get some number a little more approximate to reality.
His secret poll that gave him 10 points, again, just divided it by 10 and substract 1.5 and you will get the real number.

His "informative assemblies" 2 million people, just divide them by 10 and substract another 10 percent and you will get the number.

This silly cocaine convention, he says there will be 1 million, will divide it by 10 and substract 10 percent of it to get the real number of attendees to the convention.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 27, 2006 11:41 PM

We would like to remind emptyboxes that this blog is for comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

Any advertisement for promoting or encouraging people to drink alcoholic beverages is strictly prohibited by our rules.

Posted by: Post a Comment | August 28, 2006 12:08 AM

Post a Comment

I challenge that!

Posted by: PeterN | August 28, 2006 12:21 AM

Lord Windsor,

You're welcome.

Viper,

Remember last year's big to do about the veto Fox invoked concerning part of congress' budget presentation.

The issue went straight to the supreme court and the 2006 budget was allowed to pass with the exception of the 80 billion pesos that were in dispute. The verdict finally, after months of deliberation went Fox's way.

It was a stab at "we will govern from congress" exclamation by Madrazo. If I remember correctly it was the first official budget veto by the Executive in modern Mexican history and went to the supreme court for a ruling.

In Mexico to counter the multiplicity of laws and even more disconcerting "interpretation" of one or other other article to fundament each sides' argument, the "amparo" was created to allow discussion and final ruling all the way to the supreme court.
The president has also lost arguments and abided by the courts ruling.

Extraordinary developments in a country where presidential power was sacrosant and had no limits.

Lopez can do all his interpretation but he will crash his merry purifying at the Supreme's gates and then deal with reality like a man or denounce the Court as spurious and paid-for. The Nation breathlessly awaits.

Viper, is Stella Artois beer good?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indications of a revolution

A tense air is breathed, the atmosphere is of crisis, approaches the 6 of September. With the victory of Juan Sabines in Chiapas the resistance receives force and Andrés Manuel Lopez Obrador Sunday 27 of August noticed that if the Electoral Court does not give the victory them this "would mean a rupture and a coup d'etat, which is unacceptable for million of Mexican" reports the Day in his virtual edition east Sunday.
The tension grows and the indications of a revolution begin to trouble the observers. AMLO has showed, very clearly, that this prepared for "mobilizing themselves" and rejecting the imposition of Felipe Calderón, blames President Fox of "treasonous of the democracy" and demands a total count of the votes, otherwise it notices, that this prepared to summon to the Mexican town to a National Convention the 16 of September to decide the future of Mexico, historical date that marks the beginning of the movement of independence in that country.

AMLO paints like insurgent. From the center of Mexico, within his smelly quarter in the Socle, it is prepared reading works of Jose Vasconcelos, intellectual leader of the Mexican revolution, according to the journalist Adam Thompson of the Financial Times. As Vasconcelos, that front to Paschal Ortiz Rubio called to a revolutionary movement in 1929 after having lost one its presidential election, AMLO is prepared to mobilize itself if it is that the Electoral Court gives to the victory to the breadista Felipe him Calderón.

It summons the town to the future decide of Mexico and its government. In its Call to the National Convention Democratic flame to the Mexicans to respond to the imposition of the candidate of the right side and protects its cause to change the government on the basis of Articulo 39 of the Constitution. Posted by: Hilodirecto | August 27, 2006 09:05 p.m.

emptyboxes,

Beer is my favorite drink. Down here we have the "beer factory" outlets. I'll go and check the brews.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 28, 2006 06:21 AM

Mijo rodolfito, I can't wait to 'hear' your drunk talk on politics.

kisses, mom

Posted by: La Chingada | August 28, 2006 09:55 AM

In yesterday's paper (El Norte) a guest editorial by Miguel Carbonell, member of the Institute of Judicial Research of the UNAM. I transcribe it because not everyone has access to the article online. The translation is mine, as are any mistakes:

"In various interviews, AMLO has cited article 39 of the constitution as the foundation that will permit the Democratic National Convention to make decision about the form of government in Mexico, so that we can move from a simulated republic to a real republic.

"Article 39 establishes, literally, the following: 'National soverignty resides essentially and originally in the people. Any public power emanates from the people and is instituted for the benefit of the people. The people have, at all times, the inalienable right to alter or modify the form of its government.'

"If a reader stops at the end of that article it would seem that, in effect, the people can change the form of their government whenever they please (even though we'd have to figure out who the people are for the effect of the same article).

"But the Constitution must be read in its entirety, not taking only isolated parts of its text and giving them the meaning that we please. If the same reader moves on to article 40, he'll see that the Constitution says that Mexico is a 'representative' republic, that is, that the fundamental decisions are made by the representatives of the people, that are the congressmen and senators, as well as the President of the Republic.

"But if the reader is patient and keeps on reading until article 135, he will see that there exists a precise mechanism to make constitutional changes. If a change in the form of goverment is desired, it must follow the steps laid out by article 135: an initiative must be presented, discussed and approved by a two thirds majority in both the congress and senate and approval by a mayority of state legislatures. This is the way the Constitution establishes to change the form of government or any of its dispositions.

"Hence, there ir no funament in article 39 for the meeting of a group of citizens who, away from channels of democratic representation, will discuss and vote wether they change or not the government, if they recognize or not a future President of the Republic, etc.

"This does not mean that this meeting or any other cannot be held, if its held in a peacefull and respectfull manner, something that the same Constitution and the laws permit. All citizens in Mexico can meet whenever we please and propose any number of changes to our supreme norm. But to be congrous we would have to acknowledge that we cannot change the Constitution by ourselves, that we must promote those changes through our congressmen and senators.

"What is much more questionable is that partial and biased reading of the constitutional text are being made. One cannot decide if he's in favor or against what the the constitution mandates. The democratic regime has a place for extreme dicidence, even that which does away with democracy but whomever assumes that posture must do so with all its consequences.

"One cannot shield oneself in the articles of the Constitution if he does not have the intention of honoring it by obeying it. This is called constitutional cinicism if its made consciously o simple ignorance if what happens is that there is not much idea of what our Magna Carta establishes."

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 28, 2006 11:02 AM

BTW, did any of you had a chance to catch Gilberto Rincon Gallardo's comments about a couple of weeks ago? This guy was in prison in 1968, a tireless fighter for democracy. He said that this elections "were a dream come true for him" who fought for clean elections so long. So far the radicals haven't noticed or he'd have his own "Wanted" poster by now.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 28, 2006 11:05 AM

rodolfo:

Stella Artois is a good beer, used to have a premium price on it in UK, and some very good TV ads reflecting this. I find it a bit too malty in a lager, but thats just a point of view. In my humble opinion, if you can get it, Grolsch lager, from the Netherlands (Holland) has got to be one of the best in the world.

Any news on a decision anywhere?

Posted by: PeterN | August 28, 2006 12:45 PM

There is a new Ceci post.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 28, 2006 01:26 PM

The TRIFE has just finished with the impugnations. One of the Magistrates said the PRD Coalition had turned in "Machotes" (templates) that they used in all of their impugnations but that they lacked the substance of the complains, that is the evidence to support such impugnations.

In the end they will annul some 180 Polling sites, some of them a result of PAN impugnations, but the whole thing will not affect the final results.

They will have another session where they will consider the final allegation of the PRD Coalition of abstract annulment of the Presidential Election, and then Validate the Presidential Election and name Felipe Calderon the Elected President Of The United States Of Mexico.

I guess after this we will see a bit more crying and kicking from AMLO and his little followers.
Maybe he will call for a revolution today or tomorrow. I am really frightened!, I think I will buy some extra food in case there is social unrest, Tigres lost last weekend and that might also add to the unrest, however Rayados won 3 to 0 versus Atlante, which I think is good.
I don't like cereals much but I will have a little discussion with my wife about it. Beer it's important, and this gives me a good excuse to buy enough for a while and What the Heck! The Soccer season has just begun, so we won't go bored.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 28, 2006 01:32 PM

WHO REMMEMBER
11 POLITICA. DOMINGÓ 27. IT WITHERED 2006 DOMINGO. President Maquío. Its cabinet. Dinosaurio rencarnó in blue. Pluto L ' ¬ to alter¬nos presidency and the cabinet of the MaquíO Clouthier was, rum ephemeral. They acted of the 23 of February to first of October of 1989, when del- happened the mysterious suction death presidential panista. A trailer embistio to the vehicle in which via¬jaba by a highway of the north of the country. In that half year, president Maquío. - therefore their those in favor called and his ga¬binete had oficial¬mente puestoen Saline hardships to the elect Carlos of Gortari, to that they described as usurper. The Ma¬quío by its Cardinal red side and Cuauhtémoc by another one - that one Cuauhtémoc, the one of now did not demonstrate with exceeded prue¬bas the hidden eectoral fraud in the phrase of Manuel Bartlett: "the system fell". The salinista press condemned resisten¬cia civil panista like "rebel". and the same Maquío it blamed it to forge a "treason to the mother country". Luis H. Alvarez ha¬bía taken the protest to the rebels with these words: "Gentlemen members of the Alternative Cabinet of the Party National Action: they promise to reflect, to comu¬nicar and to act with base in the principles and statutes of the party, to the political light of his plata¬formas, for good of Mexico ". I must to my writing companion, Mi¬reya Cuéllar' - author of the book panis¬tas- a data that receives relief today: in¬ or tegración of the cabinet of the Maquío: WHAT HAS BEEN OF THEM _ Carlos Perazaya Castle passed away, was the mentor of the youth of Felipillo. They di¬cen to me that the juarense industralist Francisco _ Villarreal Towers also let exist. Luis Brave Felipe Mena comprises of the foxista government, is the ambassador in ' Vatican ENRIQUE GALVÁN OCHOA. Jesus González Schmal no longer comprises of the BREAD, is concluding his delegated management as of Convergence and has been an implacable public prosecutor of the children of Mrs. Marta. On the other hand, Rogelio Sada Zambrano was mayor of San Pedro Heron delegated Garci'a federal and funcio:. nario of the Contraloríao Fernando Clariond Channels belongs to the cabinet, but no longer to the one of the Maquío; but to the one of Fox: it is the se¬cretario of Energy, after to have been of Economy. The Matapapas Fernandez de Cevallos has made fortune: this se¬mana will stop being senator and so _ time seráincorporado to the cabinet so that it continues te¬niendo law, _dicen that it must many. And Vicente Fox is the one who took to the cat al' water, exceed the commentaries. CHANGE OF SKIN and what happened after the death of president Maquío? The event marked breaks important in the life of the BREAD. They left the way of the revolt and co¬menzaron the one of the;corrupción. Chorejas captivated to the Matapapas, to the end that ex- secretarioo of the interior was the one who gave cerillazo so that the tickets of the electoral fraud were burned. Soon the adjustment in the oscurito by the governments came from Guanajuató and Baja Califomia. Time later, the same Matapapas would let _ gain the Presidency by Zedillín; according to it has lamented Don Vicente MegaSpot. But the great prianista concertacesión was la_del Fobaproa: Felipillo twisted the three "not" that had decided the reunited na¬cional panismo in Port Would fence - not to the Fobaproa, not to impunity, not to the con¬versión of the losses of the bankers in national debt and the party that presi¬día guaranteed the fraud along with the PRI. Sal¬dos? The pro is lost everything, or almost. Di¬nosaurio left its trico¬lor incarnation and rencarnó in blue. It follows plenty of life and health. Although six years ago some ingenuous ones gave it by dead, already is going to fulfill more than 80 years in the power. QUESTION INC6MODA is not a sarcasm that today the BREAD calls rebel to the Peje when it announces that the 16 of September the Democratic National Convention could designate to an alternating president y.su cabinet? _ E-VOl POPULI Subject: Pluto the Prague (24 August 2006). - Pluto per¬ or gave to east Thursday his estatus of ninth and more distant planet of the Solar System, that thus happens to have tán only eight plane¬tas, according to decided Unio'n Astronó¬mica Internacional (UAI). I protest! Exijóun count xpla¬neta planet. This is a plot of pirrurris for we cleared to Pluto. We are going to put a camping in the Moon to prevent that they put its satellites artificial, pro¬ducto more of the globalización, of impe¬rio, to press to those of down. Who is in agreement with this initiative of pacific interplanetary re¬sistencia I request to him that she attends the next informa¬tiva assembly in the Triangle _ and the Bermuda. Francisco Federal PerazalDistrito R. Why we did not command astro¬nauta Ugalde to make the count? Cuán¬tos Plutones wants? Note: The original texts and the electronic mailboxes of their authors appear in the forum. Fox, only lacks 95 days Maquío Clouthier President of the Republic and coordinator of the cabinet Diego Fernandez de Cevallos Inner Políticá Jesus González Schmal Foreign policy Fernando Clariond Channels Infrastructure, Services and Paraestatales Companies Francisco Villarreal Towers Human rights - Rogelio Economic Political zambrano Sada. Carlos Educative Political Peraza Castle and Cultural Maria Elena Alvarez Political Bemal Social Moisés Channels Health and Ecology Vicente Fox Political Quesada Farming Luis Brave Felipe Mena Technical Secretary

Posted by: RENE PADILLA | August 28, 2006 01:37 PM

I appreciate the humor, emptyboxes. This blog is fun and informative. It is also good to hear so many informed opinions. If there are reasonable people left on the political far left in Mexico, I wish we could hear more of those voices too. Currently, it seems that currently the far left would rather dream than think. Maybe that is why the far left loves AMLO?

Posted by: eljefejesus | August 28, 2006 11:51 PM

you know, if los pitufos could vote, I am sure they would have voted for the PAN as well. they believe in a civil society and are rarely seen protesting the rest of the pitufos' decisions. at least papa smurf and brainy smurf would, but then again, they were not always the most popular pitufos... just the ones responsible enough to vote.

Posted by: eljefejesus | August 28, 2006 11:55 PM

AMLO is a pathetic crybaby. Now we wants to have a convention to declare himself the winner? Let me guess, anyone who votes to make AMLO President gets some free rot gut tequila, no doubt he'll win a big majority.

Posted by: RC | August 29, 2006 11:21 AM

Hi long time no reading this Blog I thought you would be as saturated as me with all this circus, One thing we can deny, AMLO is going to fight with many or few people, he smells trouble, We heard some weeks ago the rumor that AMLO bought arms in Guatemala, but I just can't imagine who are going to use this arms, does he have a trained army? Is he going to use people as "carne de canon" to fight his war? does the government have already a plan in case AMLO rises in arms? if not, Government should at least consider a plan B for this troubles

Posted by: A. Ramos | August 29, 2006 12:09 PM

All of you nay-sayers just seem to repeat outright lies and try hard justify a great fraud via the ridicule of the opposing forces, but that is just it... Hot wind coming from people with no elements to subtantiate their statements. You have no proof of anything you've posted so far, and Calderon's "triumph" is as shady as his dealings and your misinformation.

There are no arms anywhere in the 46 encampments of the Plantón, there is no warmongering among the people or their coordinators in said camps. But of course your "rumours" will be far more easy to swallow than going there and see for yourselves what is realy happening along the Paseo de la Reforma, Avenida Juárez, Francisco I. Madero streets, and the Zócalo itself.

I dare you prove anything you are posting here. For all of our sakes, if not for Truth's.

Posted by: Txabier. | August 30, 2006 06:47 PM

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