Ready or Not -- Fox Declares a Winner

So much for democracy. It seems President Vicente Fox has made up his mind about who will be succeeding him Dec. 1. Suggesting he doesn't need to wait for the verdict of Mexico's election tribunal, Fox has called the contested presidential election in favor of his party's nominee Felipe Calderón.


Fox also noted, accurately, that the mass demonstrations by supporters of Andrés Manuel López Obrador have been confined largely to the capital city. This is noteworthy because López Obrador had called for nationwide civil disobedience and it appears that many across Mexico, including people who voted for him, are discouraged, bored or simply have other things to do.

Just in case anyone missed the point, Fox's spokesman reinforced el presidente's remarks. Campaign Conexión senses some concern in the Fox administration that things may not go too well for the boss's final address to the nation Sept. 1. López Obrador has threatened to block the annual event and also interrupt Mexico's military parade on Sept. 16.

From the outset, the López Obrador camp has accused Fox of inappropriately meddling in the election. It is one of the central charges in the PRD's 900-page election complaint. So it only stood to reason that López Obrador's campaign coordinator would describe Fox's most recent comments as more of the same, intended to stoke already high post-election tensions.

Meanwhile, AMLO, as he is known to followers, has remained camped out on the Zocalo, an enormous downtown square now closed off to cars. Adam Thompson of the Financial Times reports it's getting hot inside López Obrador's tent. During his visit to the encampment, Thompson spotted "Sources on the History of the Mexican Revolution, a large leather-bound book with gold leaf on the spine."

"Mr. López Obrador has been reading about José Vasconcelos, a prominent revolutionary figure who later put down his loss in the 1929 presidential election to fraud and called on supporters to begin an armed struggle. And like that of Vasconcelos, Mr. López Obrador is aware that the story of his own struggle might be retold for future generations.

"Mr. López Obrador admits that "there has been a drain of support" since he began his civil resistance campaign. He also accepts that less than half the population supports him in his struggle. In the capital, for example, he believes he now has the backing of 38 percent of citizens. But he insists that he had no option but to challenge the authorities."

Columnist Kenneth Emmond sees some hypocrisy in the man who hollers "plot!" then plots to "polarize Mexico even more." And now, Emmond argues, the drawn-out saga is impacting the economy and many of the low-income workers López Obrador has said he represents.

"City officials, who, like López Obrador, hail from the PRD, say business is off by, maybe, five percent. Business owners say sales are down by 50 to 70 percent, and this during a peak tourism month. No doubt the truth lies somewhere in between.

"Even people López Obrador claims to represent are affected. The Mexican Institute for Social Security (IMSS) says more than 800 workers have been dismissed from affected businesses. Owners say that's just for starters; if something isn't done soon, hundreds of businesses will fold."
uced an unusual degree of income inequality in most of these countries."

School started this week in Mexico City and protesters cleared several cross streets to allow youngsters and parents to reach their destinations. But that hardly calmed members of the tourism industry, who are threatening to sue city and federal officials if the standoff is not resolved soon.

"Gonzalo Brockmann, president of Mexico City´s Hotel Association, said more than 1,000 jobs and 2.5 billion pesos (US$231 million) have been lost in the tourist sector since the protest encampments along Paseo de la Reforma and two other streets went up after a July 30 mega-march. He claimed the traffic and access problems created by the encampments have cost the worst-hit downtown business as much as 80 percent of their expected income."

Academics and political elites are still fretting over the longer-term implications of the 2006 presidential saga. Alberto Aziz Nassif, guest columnist in El Universal from the Center for Investigations and Higher Studies in Social Anthropology, writes that Mexico's young democracy is undergoing such a weighty test that the country could lose its battle in the transformation to democracy.

Columnist Fred Rosen frames the present uncertainty with a series of what he calls "uncomfortable questions."

"Assuming that Calderón is officially declared president-elect at some point over the next few weeks, can Mexicans look forward to six years of continuous AMLO-led civil disobedience? Will a less-than-legitimate Calderón presidential term be marked by an on-going disruption of civic and economic activity? Will the government find itself completely hamstrung, controlling just over one-third of the legislative votes, facing nothing but hostility from its opposition, unable to get anything done?

"Do we face six years of dissension and disobedience? It remains to be seen whether AMLO can hold his militant, disobedient movement together as it leaves behind the clear-cut demand of 'vote by vote, polling place-by-polling place,' and begins to champion demands that can be achieved only building a progressive consensus over a long time horizon."

Although much of the news has focused on growing discontent with the blockades, the leftist is not entirely alone. A group of students and professors have announced they are going to demonstrate on his behalf.

Last week, some lawmakers from López Obrador's PRD were injured in a scuffle with police, and both the outgoing and incoming mayors are square in his camp.

"The street barricades are seen as a political disaster for Alejandro Encinas, the outgoing mayor of Mexico City and a close López Obrador ally. Encinas' approval rating has plunged in opinion polls since the protest movement began. Encinas controls Mexico City's police force: Rather than reopen the streets, the officers appear to be acting as the protesters' security guards.

"When Calderón and Fox said preventing the Independence Day celebrations from going forward would be an assault on Mexican patriotism, Encinas responded that the barricades might be lifted temporarily to allow the traditional military parade."

Remember Those Tapes?

"Claims by Andres Manuel López Obrador that a powerful cabal of politicians and the mega-wealthy have conspired to rob him of this summer's presidential election have long been dismissed by his critics as paranoia," writes the Houston Chronicle. "But the interrogation of a real estate developer, taped two years ago in Cuba and broadcast here Friday on a radio program, might well confirm the notion that just because a man could be paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get him."

Aides to López Obrador wasted no time in shipping the tapes to the seven-judge tribunal, which has until Sept. 6 to certify the election results. Most expect a verdict before then (let's hope!), but beyond ordering a partial recount of about 9 percent of the votes cast July 2, the tribunal has given no hint as to what it will do when.

Fellow Mexico blogger Ana Maria Salazar recommends this piece by Chicago professor Gary Becker on the leftist shift in Latin America. It's a bit dated, but an interesting read from a blog he and Richard Posner publish jointly.

"One legitimate reason for the opposition to capitalism in Latin America is that it frequently has been 'crony capitalism' as opposed to the competitive capitalism that produces desirable social outcomes. Crony capitalism is a system where companies with close connections to the government gain economic power not by competing better, but by using the government to get favored and protected positions.

"An additional factor behind the recent resurgence of left wing parties in Latin America is the unequal access to education and financial capital that has prod

By washingtonpost.com |  August 23, 2006; 9:00 AM ET  | Category:  Campaign Conexión
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Ceci:
There's no doubt that AMLO's movement is quickly decaying. The tents at Reforma and the Zocalo are almost empty and the National newspapers are begining to report on pressuring people to attend. They are even taking lists of attendees.

AMLO's movement will never be remember in the likes of Vasconcelos or Cardenas 88, it cannot be remembered as such. Many of the people who lived through the Cardenas-Salinas events are now defending the integrity of the IFE and our elections.

But there is a good lesson Mexicans are learning here: TRIFE has shown strenght and will declare a President soon and their final veredict will only clean the name of the IFE.
And future candidates to all levels of governments will always accept the results of the IFE and will not take their impugnations to the street knowing perfectly that the authorities will not give in to cheap pressures and that the people will quickly take away their support to their causes.
Mexico is a country of Institutions and we have more than one president today. Our President is Fox, but there is also the President of Congress, and the President of the Supreme Court, and the President of the IFE, and the President of the TRIFE.
Our country has developed these institutions and they are there to make our democracy prevail.
Although I believe this whole affair has been unnecesary I also believe this events will bring a better Mexico. A Mexico of young people, like Felipe Calderon, and a Mexico looking to the future and not to the past and to failed economic theories of government control.
We are witnessing the last kicks and punches from the old and hardest and most totalitarian PRI people. Lopez Obrador and Camacho Solis and Manuel Barttlet represent this totalitarian branch of the PRI, when the PRI begun to crumble they left the party and went to PRD, but they brought their thrist for absolute power with them. They have demonstrated us how correct was the PAN when they labeled them as a danger for Mexico. And Indeed they were, but they lost, and all they have today is a bunch of empty tents in Reforma and Zocalo. We will be happy to clean the zocalo when as soon as they leave or are kicked out. Whatever occurs firts.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 09:52 AM

AMLOs movment is on the rise, no matter what other people say, here in tiny Lerdo dgo.,everyday, a not very large, but continual group of PRD supporters hold their meetings in the main plaza, and this is a PANista town. The proof is that even Fox, had 2 come out, and declare Calderon the winner, thou hes not suppose to do that. Perhaps hes got wind of something quite not to his likeing coming out of the TRIFE? Is he trying to get ahead of everyone, and declare FECAL the winner? Why his desperation? Perhaps hes trying to distract the media away form the ruling against Marthas sons, who bilked the Mexican goverment of over 1billion pesos. And also the Ahumada Video, which places the blame of the desafuero at Foxs doorstep. But one thing is clear, the judgement of histroy is at hand, and clearly, those who fight for true Mexican democracy, will be seen in the future as the real defenders of Mexico. Not some lackys who only know how to make money off the goverment tit.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 10:54 AM

mayaO,

I would replace "tit" with "milky breast".

Ta ta'!

I'll be back, Ihave to wash my breasts. You know who came suckling and I'm all excited. Ta ta' again.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 11:11 AM

maya0: I agree with everything you say. When is the revolution going to begin? I am anxious to buy some souvenirs, maybe coffee mugs with AMLO's face or keyholders, and maybe take a revolutionary tour around Reforma and the Zocalo.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 11:13 AM

Well, after taking time off yesterday I came to the realization that I was conned into engaging one of the loonies. He started out "reasonable" but then ended up radical, refusing to answer direct questions and just counterattacking, not counterproposing.

Now, I rarely take time to address maya's comments because he's a well documented loonie, only TG has managed to get something that was not profanity-laden out of him and began sounding like there might actually be a brain in there. Alas, he had to go and say something completely lacking in perspective and intelligence:

"Perhaps a little finger pointing is a good thing, what would have happen to Hitler and his pals, had enough jews and non jews in Germany had pointed their finger at Hitler and his thugs and called them the monsters that they where before it was too late. And what would have happen to the civil rights movement in the USA, had enough whites shared the finger pointing that blacks where using at the KKK and their racists cohorts?"

Perhaps a little finger pointing might have stopped: the tlatelolco massacre, the Chorpus day massacre, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Chinese cultural revolution, the Stalinist gulags, the massacre of civilian Kurds with chemical weapons by Saddam, the massacre at Wounded Knee and, why not? the "colonization" of the american continent by the europeans. I'm sure that it could have also stopped Temüjin from leading the Mongols all the way to Europe and prevented Caesar from killing Vercingetorix, but that might be taking it a little too far, perhaps.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 11:14 AM

spoiler, I'll take your lead: one thing I would to know is which of AMLO's proposals deserve serious consideration.

I have one for sure: better pensions for old people and retirees. I believe this one is valid because this people cannot be expected to find new sources of income. Another one might be subsidized milk for poor families with children. This does bring along with it a question as to how to pay for it, possible sources are: gypsy cabs, the ambulant sellers, pirated goods dealers, corruption fighting. Obviously fighting and collecting money from these people takes more money, so we can't just say that this will solve the budget problem, but its a start. What I would like to hear is wether or not these are good ways of fighting poverty or not and why that is as well as how we would pay for this.

There are other proposals of AMLO I'm ambivalent on, but those two seem reasonable enough to start off with.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 11:15 AM

***URGENT***

For all the people posting at this blog you need to GET A LIFE .... PRONTO!!!

Can't believe all the stupid posts, from same all extreme right wing - left wing old arguments, to insults, to someone who has enough time to track someone else's posts. Geez!

Please get a life and get back to work or volunteer the countless hours you spent here helping others.

As for me? first and last post.

Posted by: Give me a break | August 23, 2006 11:45 AM

Right on, the last post.

I will also move on to other places in cyberspace.

See ya.

Posted by: Viper | August 23, 2006 12:02 PM

give me a break:
Get a life?
We all have a life already and we are just having some fun here.
Why don't you get a life?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 12:12 PM

In order to build some bridges and to get more people enthusiastic about this ongoing blog I propose adding a few more topics to it:
a) The Heroic Job The American Army doing in Irak, they are kicking the butts of those god-forsaken terrorists and liberating the Iraki people from radical fundamentalism.

b) The great bombing of Lebanon by the heroic Iraelii soldiers who are kicking the hell out of those terrorists, with a just a few minor collateral damages.

c) add yours.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 12:19 PM

emptyboxes, wow, are u serious? Do u know that 70 percent of americans in the usa, want the usa out of Iraq. Conservatives are starting to make statments about the mental health of bush. That in Israel, the population is demanding why the war against the party of god, went so badly, 2day one of their tanks blew up and one of their soldiers died. What fantasy land do u live in? Or like bush, whos like a president on another planet, which planet do u live on? Ok ok, your just trying to get people irked and see if they react. Well, actuclly your pretty funny living on that planet where the usa is winning in Iraq, and Israel bought down the party of god. But its not this planet. Here, both the usa and israel, are getting their butts handed to them. And AMLO won the presidency, no matter what looney tunes Fox says about FECAL.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 01:16 PM

Maya0,

Just so that what happened in Parras is put in perspective, the cause of the flash flood was rain that fell 18 kilometers south of the town and caused an arroyo that runs through the town to overflow its banks. It wasn't lack of drainage.

You said:

"And your second point, about Mexico city, well, they have got more to work on in a city that size, dont they? Its gonna take a while, whats the excuse in a wee little town like Parras? Cant think of any can u?"

Are you saying that nine years is not enough to fix the DF? Then, why are six years enough to fix all of Mexico's problems?

Posted by: TG | August 23, 2006 01:26 PM

rodolfa
Eres mujer! Now I understand where your coming from. Not enuff things to do around your spacious peach colored home? Cant entice the UPS man? Now I get it, well enough said. Emptyboxes with the cocaine, and Peter with his warm beer, should be more than enough for u to handle. U should look up the recipe for making crack, and then have a FECAL King of Mexico extravaganza. Just keep it quiet, am sure your already concern neighbors are not up for all day into the night orgys. Sorry for calling u a puto, but i did get the perra slapping right didnt I?

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 01:28 PM

TG
Have u ever been to Parras de la fuente coah? I have, many a time, its nearby actually. Only a couple of hours, and I can say factually what its like in Parras. No adequate drainage exsits for any kind of flooding, much less a flash flood. Its a 400 year old town, that cant get all its streets paved. Ive also been to Mexico City, again, u cant compare tiny Parras to mega city D.F.
Why then do u try?
Ill give u one more example of PRIPAN, mishandling of things. In torreon coah, a farily avarage size city, has a Distribidora Vial. It only a few blocks of bridges criss crossing each other, carring trucks buses, and cars. Well it took more to make the entire structure of the DVR in torreon, than it did to make the whole segundo piso in Mexico city, which streaches, how many miles long? Oh, and the DVR in torreon, has no perlata, as u drive on it, theirs no banking on the curve, so a few trucks, have slid off the highest points of the bridge, having killed already 3 people since its been made. A PAN controlled town, and a PRI controlled state. They both have been tossing the blame ball between themselves. And now, their going to have to tear this thing down. Do u want more examples of the fine work that the PRIPAN have done here in the north of Mexico. Ive have loads of items, personally lived.
Am not talking things ive only read about, but lived.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 01:42 PM

They are beginning the recount of votes in Chiapas. It will be interesting to see how AMLO will react if this overturns the PRD's lead. Like AMLO himself, who blew a ten point lead from a couple months before the election, Chiapas is another place where, if one had asked in June, I would have said it was impossible for the PRD to lose. They should have been no doubt about the winner of this election, it should have been the PRD in a landslide. I guess AMLO is useful for some things, because the fact that it was not a landslide in Chiapas can be directly atributed to him.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 01:58 PM

Fox did not service the cause of grey Calderon when he declared him president elect. It is clear to all that Fox intervened in the electoral process and violated the principle of equity which, according to the Mexican Constitution, is to rule all electoral processes. Fox is a traitor to the Constitution he swore to uphold when he became the first opposition president after seven decades of one party rule. For more on Fox's lame duck status and sorry results as president check out Rivapalacio's editorial of today which compares Fox to a gardener who made all conflicts grow in these six years

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columnas/59941.html

Fox's declarations are rendering TRIFE uselsess. If TRIFE rules to validate fraud and does not clarify reasonable doubts millions of Mexicans have regarding electoral results it will seem that it acted following Fox's orders and not to serve justice for all. TRIFE would loose all credibility. Another institution going down the toilett because of Fox's and crony capitalits wishes to impose Calderon.

I don't agree the civil resistance movement is confined to Mexico City. Ceci you should check reports on the marcaje thats being made to Fox and puppet Calderon whenever they show their faces in public. They are picking closed auditoriums and pre-selected audiences because they are scared sht...less about voto por voto protests.

I don't live in Mexico City but in my state discontent is widespread and people will certainly not back an authoritarian regression so easily as the PAN wants to believe. After all their propaganda about the transition we took a liking to democracy you see. Even if we are not in camps we still think this electoral process so far has been fraudulent. It is funny Mitofski or any of the "serious" pollsters have not polled on the percentage who thinks there was fraud. I guess they are too scared of what results might show. Even many panistas don't buy it that Calderon won. Yet they don't care because their antidemocratic credentials, they believe in the "fraude patriotico" to stop Lopez Obrador from becoming president.


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 02:01 PM

Another country, another stolen election by right-wingers.

More of the same.

What's next? Will Mexico invade Iceland searching for Weapons of Mass Distraction?

Posted by: Will in Seattle | August 23, 2006 02:03 PM

Maya0,

I think we should leave these guys to their rants and only respond to what's being posted by Ceci. Everything they say is polluted by the negative campaign and it is just too tiresome to argue with people who are not able to engage in a reasonable debate without hate speech and name calling.

I blog because I feel that the media in Mexico has not been impartial or neutral as we all needed in such a critical situation. Our side is the side of millions of Mexicans who want change and it should be taken into account by international media and international public opinion and not rendered to a cartoon painted by the Panista foreign political consultants. The cerco infomativo should end in Mexico's monopolic televisions and conservative newspapers who respond to PAN interests.

We have every right to demand that our voices be heard and let everybody now that despite their attempts to see this as one man's quest that is not the case. The Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion is what many of us see as necessary to address Mexico's needs.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 02:13 PM

Ceci,

Could you invite Kathleen Bruhn again to a chat in this blog? I think it would be interesting to share her views about what's going on with Mexico. She could bring a fresh, unpolluted perspective on the civil resistance movement and put it in context.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 02:20 PM

Will,

Yep. But we do not carry the burden of a consolidated democracy that would stop us from accepting the PAN's fraudulent results. No end near for this protesta. As I said, we took a liking to democracy after all the propaganda of these past six years and we are quite ready keep demanding that the popular will is respected. No cansancio here.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 02:26 PM

I meant to say we do not carry the burden of a consolidated democracy that would prevent us from rejecting with protests and peaceful civil resistance the fraudulent PAN results :)

(that's what comes after reading vocero Aguilar)

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 02:38 PM

Chiapaneco: Where is the "mass resistance" outside of AMLOlandia (DF)? Is there any in the north? If so, where? Also, assuming that the PRD did win in Chiapas, why was it by two tenths of a percentage point, and not by the ten points or so that polls pointed to a couple months ago? Furthermore, does "mass resistance" extend to vote buying by the PRD in Chiapas?
Just wondering.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 02:46 PM

Jerry, ever noticed how they keep claiming that they have millions upon millions of supporters, yet they managed not to vote?

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 03:09 PM

Ariel, that was part of the complo...The vote was supressed. Didn't you know that already? Same thing was done to them in Chiapas.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 03:12 PM

Ceci,

Manuel Espino CEO of the PAN still has to explain his fraudulent tactics to steal Chiapas state election for his friend Priista Aguilar. This alliance was meant to force the PRI into accepting Calderon's imposition.

In this recording Espino tells PRI lieutenant in Chiapas that he has gathered 1.5 million pesos presumably to aid last minute vote buying. According to them, the money would have come from PRI governors in Puebla, Durango and Estado de Mexico.

Elba Ester Gordillo should also explain about members of the Magisterio caught on fraudulent activities.

Here is the Espino recording. The PAN's fraudulent tactics were not sufficient to aid PRIANISTA Aguilar into defeating Sabines. Enjoy!

http://www.lopezobrador.org.mx/noticias/audios/1908200601.wma

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 03:23 PM


Now we have something interesing to discuss, aside from today's Ceci"s blog posting:

PeterN:

Excellent beer Guinness! Fully agree with you that it is not that strong, the bad thing is they add sugar to the brew. The Guinness you find here in the US is a bit watered down for my taste....I like the frothy, mealy, sweet but sour taste of the brew. I have had the occasion to sit in Temple Barr (you know where, not Edinburgh) but the other Celtic country, so close to Scotland yet so far. As you know, Guinness is now owned by Diageo, and they are watering it down, I suspect. They are favoring Harp, also from that same country but lighter colored and more "drinkable". And the best Guinness, granted, as clearly expressed by MayaO, is warm. On the subject of whether you should give your opinion or not, I would say to MayaO and others:

Why was she born so beautiful, why was she born at all, she's no bloody use to anyone, she´s no bloody use at all, (and then pointing fingers) it´s her....it´s her.

Or even more, there is a dark tribe in Africa......oops, I better not go there.

Slainte, PeterN


On the politics of the future...this is my humble contribution

To me the next president of Mexico needs to do three main things.

1) Must focus on devolving government: with the hope of placing the onus for providing the conditions for economic development to State governments. Just for example....Sabines putative election to Chiapas should be a great boon...because then, since he has the backing of the local elite powers in the State (the Parientes, et.al.)he can focus on bringing the coffee regions in the Soconusco to the heights they should have. I hear everywhere of Costa Rica Arabica, even Guatemala robusto, etc. but not of Soconusco or Chiapas bitters or aromatic something or other. There is no better place to provide for the growth of that beverage as in Chiapas. Similarly, the north of the State is full of oil, near Pichucalco, and we are throwing the gas away in getting to the oil. Natural gas, technology along with oil extraction is something that would give great benefits.

The center of the State, the Villaflores, Tuxtla Gutierrez, San Cristobal de las Casas axis should be a cultural, intellectual, haven. And then the Bonampak, Comitán, as well as San Cristobal again, should develop modern techniques for agriculture, consonant with the local indigenous populations.

For better or for worse, Sabines will have to deal with the Zapatista movement. He will need to sit and listen and strengthen the municipal and local focus they advocate. That actually would be a great political thing to do. And to an earlier blog, from Chiapaneco, I think, that said that the Sub is dead and irrelevant, I say he is like that tumor that lies dormant within your belly. It is lying in
wait, before it metastasizes.

The second thrust is that the federal government needs to focus only on key action steps...these should be: negotiating with the legislature to create the right infrastructure for justice. Look at best practices in justice administration, and in police protection. English, French and Spanish police methods (given the long experience with the IRA, the ETA, and the Algerian experience) have developed great practice in this area. Definitely do not look to the States for that....the National Guard, jeeez, louissee.

The third focus should be on immigration. But first, the Mexican government needs to change its own immigration policies...they should accept foreigners, particularly those that are very likely to add to the economic and social improvement of the country. They should treat the Central American peregrinos with respect and dignity. This is something, by the way, that would require coordination with the Chiapas government for example.
By the way, the next president of Mexico has a unique opportunity to negotiate with the US for a better immigration deal in the US. An open discussion on the subject, now, in all likelihood would be a welcome element for Georgie. Based on the two items above, devolving government and letting state governments focus on economic development.

As to what to do with oil, education, health, other regions in the country, such as the Sonora Chihuahua---the Tamaulipas, northern Veracruz, or even the Guerrero, Michoacan Jalisco axis...those should follow the logic here. What is the issue? who can best deal with it? Where would be the best cost/benefit ratio be. For example, education, to me should be more of a local matter (financed by the federal government but locally implemented)to me a Secretaría de Educación Pública is like forming the National Federation of humor, it just does not make sense.

Oil since it is a big resource should be kept nationalized on functions that best require that...say where to explore, and how to explore, but I would have local Board of Directors, that follow a State logic, rather than a national logic.

The marketing, technology innovation, and financial functions, I would privatize. Further, the Federal Government should develop environmental regulations that each State, company, and process should follow.


So, three main axis...devolution (or whatever you want to call it, but following the Scottish sese of the term), justice, and immigration reform.

The skill sets required to do these thrusts would require negotiations with legislatures, treating state governments as partners, and listening to local power configurations. Also executional demands will require that the financing of state activities change dramatically.

In addition, Mexico´s relations with other countries would be based on its building its infrastructure not in trying to pontificate about world affairs.

Another thing: Keep all churches out of government, that´s one thing Juárez, Díaz (the dictator) and the PRI did right. And yet one more: Mexico must join OPEC.

Key intellectual gurus that the next president should consult:

Nestor Garcia Canclini, Martha Nussbaum, Amartya Sen, Michael Walzer, Candido Mendes and Simon Blackburn (Look them up, if you want, they are in the book, I mean in Google)

It is 7:53 a.m., I will go get a Warsteiner beer. I am feeling German right now.

Posted by: Viper | August 23, 2006 07:54 AM


Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 04:08 PM

La Hora del Pueblo Blog is smokin' with more juicy gossip.

Apparently Televisa was a main player in the July 2's media supported fraud. Both Fox's and Ugalde's tapings released at 11 PM, when they talked about close results, had been taped way before hand. I think a third opinion might be needed on this to ensure this was the case. I wonder how the press has not analyzed this bit.

The media contribution to fraud was poorly planned though. At 8 pm journalist Jaime Aviles wrote to talking head Lopez Doriga not to contribute to this authoritarian backlash and media backed coup to give Calderon a razor thin edge of .5% over Lopez Obrador.

Days before the media backed fraud on July 2, Carlos Loret de Mola was sent to tell Lopez Obrador's campaign members that Televisa would announce a 5% Lopez Obrador win at 8PM on July 2 (these results were also given in Maria de las Heras last poll before elections).

Apparently Loret de Mola acted on Televisa's behalf to ease the mind of Lopez Obrador and prevent him from summoning the people who backed him to protest what was about to happen.


More interesting and juicy details in

lahoradelpueblo.blogspot.com


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 04:26 PM

mayaO,

No, Valemadres got it. Are you completely crazy or is it a gang of lame perdedista compadres taking 8 hour turns at the computer. You start at 10 am and finsh 14 hours later. Vivi, loquita.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 04:31 PM

(I placed this in the last section, but felt I needed to make sure these two received my post)

Maya 0 IQ, Chiapaneco,

Lets just try to work this out since you have gone on and on about your blessed article 33 and how I am illegally interfering in your election, (or perhaps in both your cases that should read erection, as your mutual masturbation and intolerence of others would show). Have I voted in your election, answer NO, was I an observer or poll counter, answer NO, was I appointed to make any decisions on a recount etc, answer NO.

If you still feel that I as a foreigner married to a Mexican have no right to express an opinion, then you might like to consider the fact that this is a comment section of a newspaper based in Washington DC, not Mexico DF. Do you have any opinions on the plans by the USA to build a wall to keep wetbacks out of USA? Surely not, it would be wrong to interfere in that countrys affairs.

Article 37. Ever hear of dual nationality?

You´re just a couple of third class constituitional lawyers, trying to silence people by quoting the law, when you can´t defend your situation.

Maya 0, I´ll get back to you on China and Vietnam soon, but it´s good to see your still picking your examples well.

And whats a violent calamite? Sounds like a very nasty type of crustacean


Posted by: | August 23, 2006 04:44 PM

Es importante destacar que al obtener la nacionalidad mexicana debe renunciar a su nacionalidad de origen.
http://www.sre.gob.mx/ayuda/faqnacionalidad.htm

Sorry dual nationality only for Mexicanos by birth. No constitucionalista but knowledgeable about the law of the land.

If a British citizen wants to become Mexican and intervene in Mexico's internal affairs while living in Mexico the only way to go about it is to renounce to the Brit citizenship and the EU passport. Sorry, you are still violating Article 33. No dual nationality and no vote for you.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 04:51 PM

Maya0,

I read somewhere that a lot of millions of pesos from Chihuahua's deep pockets went into the negative campaign and are still fueling the negative TV spots against the recount and Alejandro Encinas, the major of Mexico City. These are the guys who ilegaly intervened in the campaigns with TV spots when the COFIPE states only political parties might do it.

Mmmmm.... thats interference in politica affairs... and I hope not coming from a foreigner not allowed to obtain dual citizenship. That would be really bad news indeed.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 04:55 PM

Chiapaneco, Maya negative one, how are you all going to react when the TEPJF rules that Calderon is president elect? Have you thought about moving to North Korea or Cuba, where they might appreciate your views more, and where you could personally and permantly experience AMLO type policies on economics and political dissent?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 05:05 PM

Apparently some people in Mexico only care about the rule of law when its applied to protect their interests. What a shame. This is characteristic of the antidemocratic right who does not want a full recount that would expose all irregularities. They rightly fear it might compromise the "patriotic fraud" they support to prevent Lopez Obrador from being president.

This is the sort of thing the progressive agenda wants to end. We don't want any more impunity. We want respect for the vote. We want transparency and certainty to electoral results. Mexico, and Mexicans who believe in democracy as the best way to govern our country deserve no less.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 06:01 PM

Chiapaneco,

I´m still waiting for you to explain how any article of Mexican law has power in a comment section of a United States of America newspaper, or are you implying that any opinion about Mexico, made by anyone who is not a citizen of Mexico, in any form of media, in any part of the world, is subject to Mexican law?

It would make life so much easier for you if you could suppress free speach world wide, but guess what, it ain´t going to happen.

Posted by: PeterN | August 23, 2006 06:06 PM

Trying to silence people by quoting the law . Poor silly me, I thought that was PAN strategy.

Diego Fernandez and Calderon's nerdy cronies are very keen on that. Antidemocratic regimes usually use the legality card to silence public outcry for democratization. The PRI was always legal in its own terms. Fox's behavior of declaring Calderon elect is dictatorial and not democratic. He has stepped over the Tribunal and compromised its credibility. He is no different from PRI presidents before him with his absurd attempt at dedazo.

Progressives in Mexico know the law too and we are firm believers that it should be applied fairly and transparently for the good of all Mexicans.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 06:08 PM

Lord Windsor,

Was my answer about certain party right?

Calamite is a type of land lizard that bites angry losers and they become multiple personality sociopaths with no humor. After their sorry addition of mistakes and crass political naivite acquieres critical mass, you get this automaton resented vagrants. They become irrelevant by means of their lackluster dwarfing imagination. Hear mayaO roar the squeal of a defeated mouse.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 06:14 PM

No need to make a cartoon or involve the Washington Post. I am glad there is free speech, and open media elsewhere. Otherwise we would still be stuck in Televisa-PRI dictatorship. I think it's good the Post supports plurality by opening this blog.

No beating around the bush on this one. No dual citizenship for foreigners. Foreigners who are welcome to live in Mexico must follow the law of the land. That means no intervention in Mexico's political affairs and no voting.

Some people would like to think that's Cuba or North Corea and make a joke out of the Constitution well that's their bussiness.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 06:14 PM

Does Mexican law apply to a comment section of a United States of America newspaper. Yes or No.

Posted by: PeteN | August 23, 2006 06:18 PM

Article 33 fans,

You have to take your case to a PAN dominated congress, president and Supreme Court with no humor to antagonize a modernizing society.

You'd have to be an interpol fugitive for anyone pay attention to art. 33 cases. It is used only as a form of expedient removal
of like minded mayaO foreign amigos.

After the Atenco police intervention, several foreigners from Spain and Italy were summarily sent packing. They haven't been back.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 06:22 PM

Hi rodolfo, as you can see I´ve been trying to get a straight answer out of a politician.

Yes your answer was correct, those laws on bloodline to become a citizen came out of the Nazi partys manifesto.

Posted by: PeterN | August 23, 2006 06:22 PM

Chiapaneca, 6:14 PM

This is the PAN century rocking. No more PRI media monopoly. Now it's like, well something new and fun: Televisa-PAN friendship dawning. Sort of started when Fox came to power. Fox says jump, Televisa says how high.

Those three marineros, 9 months at sea and they even have haircuts. They look like they were planted like maybe the same week they were found. Distracting fun and very believable yet effective. Chapulin Colorado
storytelling, if you ask me. We Mexicans love tall tales. Ask Lopitos Revolucionario.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 06:40 PM

You know, the legal documents presented by the Coalicion to the tribunal was a study in shoddy work. I won't get into details save this one: They ask for a recount 100% of the stations, fully knowing (at least they should've) that they needed to file paperwork for the same stations, but they only filed for something around 30% of the stations. This guaranteed the failure of the "vote by vote" initiative. I guess this group of progressives that know the law were high when they wrote those filings or something.

Also, this group likes to claim that the constitution says this and the constitution says that, but always neglect to mention that constitutional articles are not directly applicable to any situation, for that, you need articles of law. Since those laws have not been declared unconstitutional, the laws will be used by the tribunal. When you look at the actual law that defines what is a fair election and what isn't, you'll find that this election meets every single criteria.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 06:52 PM

Interesting. Now the Nazis copied Mexican Constitution? Because it preceded them for decades. Again another remark that shows deep disrespect from a foreigner to the country that welcomed him.

For foreigners living in Mexico: no voting, no intervention in political affairs and certainly no allowances to give money into negative campaigns.

I know we have matured as a society since the 1988. We did take a liking to democracy. It is not going to be so easy to use Chespirito and chupacabras scheemes to divert the public. Maybe some, but not as many as to end resistance to an authoritarian imposition.

Again, pretty suspicious Mitofski and other pollsters not polling on the perception of fraud. Must be scared.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 06:52 PM

AMLO LOST THE ELECTION!! that's for sure and the only one responsible for his defeated is AMLO. He on his mind flew to high, when he was 10 points ahead his opponents, and I was really scared for the future of Mexico, but fortunately he himself started his mesias deliriums, took back his own words that he made in the past and proved he´s a lyer, He offended the President (wich has made a lot of mistakes but neverless he's well accepted by lots of people) the bankers, the entrepreneurs and all those who didn't shared his ideas or politics. and lots of people realized. Now with his actions he's just showing that I was right to be scared and to called him a danger for this country.
It´s a pity what's happenning in my dear Mexico city but the good thing about it is that a lot of people that supported him and voted for him now is regret and this patetic guy himself is time by time digging his own political tomb. and the best thing is We againts him and in favor of mexican institutions didn't have to do anything like block streets. :-)

Posted by: Jacky | August 23, 2006 06:55 PM

Lord Windsor,

After the Mexican revolution there was a long period of restlesness. The paranoia ran rampant and laws were applied as authorities saw fit. The first civilian president in 20 century Mexico was Miguel Aleman in 1946. Porfirio Diaz rose to power
in 1880 and was also a military general. Mexico has been run by hardline authoritarians until 1994, when authoritoritarinism began to subside gradually until Fox came to power.

Lopez is using Mexican society's ages old distrust of authorities as a false premise
to advance his stupid stratagem "today is just like oldtimes". He was always in the PRI until the emerging moderate PRI exasperated old-style thugs who controlled things the old way and felt didn't need modernizing. Lopez is truly a retro politician of the Echeverria school of patronizing govenment.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 06:56 PM

chiapaneca,

I like yor post. Read it again. You sound like Peter Lorre. He is one of my favorite
actors. You nailed the serious but comedy.
Study that gem, amigos.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 07:04 PM

Orellana,

You know it , I know it and PRD knew it. They knew they lost July 3 Monday morning. Their suit was a formality. We are now in the 21st century and if there is a strong fool-proof institution, it's the IFE and TEPJF.

Today Reforma stretches are opening for normal traffic. The Lopez horse and pony show is falling apart step by step. These clowns never had a case.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 07:16 PM

I guess some of the regulars did not catch this. No need to use different nicks. Here it goes.

To counter his charisma the right has deemed Lopez Obrador as a crazy populist.

Paid historian Enrique Krauze even came up with the Messianic adjective so the Panistas could use it to attack Lopez Obrador and his platform (No original ideas Fox used it yesterday). According to this view only faithful idiots could share his proposals for change in this country. Why would we want something different if eveything is just great? (For more on Krauze's track record as historian-publicist on demand check out his work during Salinas sexenio when he tried to convince Mexicans Porfirio Diaz was not such a bad guy and Mexicans should support Salinas re-election)

Here is a sample of the extreme hypocrisy of the PAN. A link to a pamphlet distributed by Grupo Tepeyac depicting Calderon as Juan Diego, asking the faithful to vote for him and demonizing Lopez Obrador.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3311/2101/1600/grupo%20tepeyac.jpg


What say you Norberto? God is a Panista?


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 07:18 PM

Does Mexican law apply to a comment section of a United States of America newspaper. Yes or No.

Posted by: PeterN | August 23, 2006 07:20 PM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 07:29 PM

"Interesting. Now the Nazis copied Mexican Constitution? Because it preceded them for decades. Again another remark that shows deep disrespect from a foreigner to the country that welcomed him. "

Chiapaneco, if you can´t follow the thread, don´t just butt in with worthless comments, go back and read the posts again if need be.

Posted by: PeterN | August 23, 2006 07:34 PM

PeterN has the right according to our constitution, as any person of any given nationality living in Mexico, to express his opinion. But then again, I don't think that applies in here since it is a blog of an american newspaper. So, please, just drop the subject ok? It is completely irrelevant.

Posted by: bunburina | August 23, 2006 07:43 PM

Jacky,

Democracy works, effective campaigning and Lopez's arrogance not to go to the first debate, the chachalaca really great idea and his absence from TV for three weeks to answer a demolishing panista campaign = defeat.

Can you imagine such an inept campaigner as president. The guy squandered an insurmountable lead. Pobre pejito.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 07:49 PM

Chiapaneco, you wrote this:
For foreigners living in Mexico: no voting, no intervention in political affairs and certainly no allowances to give money into negative campaigns.

Do you think the United States should also adopt an article 33, and add a no dual citizenship clause? (There is a movement afoot to do exactly that.) Would that benefit or hurt Mexicans?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 07:51 PM

Ariel:
You wrote:
"that they needed to file paperwork for the same stations, but they only filed for something around 30% of the stations. This guaranteed the failure of the "vote by vote" initiative. I guess this group of progressives that know the law were high when they wrote those filings or something"

The PRD officials were not high or drunk when they wrote their main impugnation. They made it so that the TRIFE would never carry out a total recount and annul the election before that occured. They cleverly wrote only to make it possible to recount those Polling Stations where Felipe Calderon obtained the most votes.

What this simple fact tell us is that the Vote by Vote was nothing but a smoke screen to hide the fraud that PRD carried out in many Casillas in southeast Mexico. They knew that with the levels of abstensionism of the impoverished states of the southeast, Chiapas 40% for example, they could never match the high participation from Central and Northern Mexico. The only place where the level of abstensionism is as low as in north Mexico is the DF but that was not going to be enough.
PAN had in fact impugnated a certain amount of Casillas from these states looking for annulment but PAN is at the same time being careful about keeping the elections clean, they know that if they discovered ballot stuffing in some casillas of the south, they might be too many it could render the election null.

The fact is AMLO's fraud allegations don't fly to the point is that everybody has been questioning them Where is the Fraud? People are not asking the IFE and TRIFE anything. They trust them.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 07:52 PM

As usual our imbecile leftist in Mexico did not get offended at all for the intromission of Cuba into Mexican affairs with that video of Ahumada being interviewed.

The video came from Cuba and was not only a fragment of a complete video, but it was also edited in an effort to put together different statements from Ahumada from different interviews as the changes in the background and lights suggests.

All these facts and the timing to make this video public through a very leftist and manipulative imbecile like Carmen Aristegui clearly show we have a very bad friend in Cuba who wants to disrupts and interfere in our internal affairs.


But according to Denisse Dresser, Lorenzo Meyer, Carlos Fuentes and other imbeciles of the left in our country, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Now if tomorrow the USA Ambassador declares that Mexico needs to control the narco violence in Nuevo Laredo, all the imbeciles of the left in congress, prd, pt and convergencia and all those equally imbecile intellectuals like Jose Antonio Crespo and Denise and Carlos Fuentes and Monsivais and the UNAM, all of these excremental leftist will protest loudly and cry out an intromision from the Capitalist Empíre into our global affairs.

The only thing that will ever force these imbeciles of the left and the PRD and PT and Convergencia to protest to Cuba will be when they launch an attack to our national territory, and maybe then, Monsivais will probably send a Carta de Extrañamiento to their dear friend the Cuban ambassador and the PRD will send a commission to offer dialogue to Castro or his brother.

This is the kind of left we have in our country.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 08:19 PM

Speaking of Cuba, here is wonderful article about how all the Cuban doctors in Venezuela either end up campaigning for Chavez or defecting to Columbia.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15274916.htm

Posted by: Jerry B | August 23, 2006 08:33 PM

MAYAO AND CHIAPANECO:
I am Mexican and you have no right to speak on behalf of most of us,
You post comments saying that Mexicans want a change in Mexico!!!
What is this change to you??
A Lopez Obrador President who claims that the rich people have too much and the poor people don't!!!!
It is true that there is a lot of wealthy people in Mexico, but it is also true that most wealthy people have what they deserve,
They either inherited from a hard working past generation, they are presedntly work hard, because nothing comes from the sky!!!! even if people are wealthy because they have illegally enriched themselves, sooner or later they would get caught sent to prison or killed. SO, Everything has a price!!!
People have what they have achieved with whatever decisions they take.
I am tired listening to people like you talking about how bad is that AMLO lost,
BUT THE FACT IS THAT AMLO LOST!!!!
and FELIPE CALDERON WON!!!!
I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ARE YOU MAYA,
SO EAGER TO WISH AMLO CAN BE THE NEXT MEXICAN PRESIDENT???
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT AMLO IS LIKE A GOD THAT WOULD STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING POOR???
DONT YOU HAVE FAMILY IN MEXICO CITY???
PEOPLE THAT REALLY KNOW THAT WHEN AMLO WAS THE CITY MAYOR, HE AND HIS ASSISTANTS STOLE AND STOLE UNTIL THE CITY IS BROKE AND IT WOULD TAKE THE CITIZENS OF MEXICO CITY TO PAY BACK WITH TAXES ABOUT 20 YEARS MORE!!!
DONT YOU KNOW THAT WHILE AMLO TELLS PEOPLE TO CAMP OUT, AND WHILE THESE PEOPLE ARE CAMPING, SUFFERING HUNGER, COLD WEATHER , HOT WEATHER IN THE MAIN AVENUES OF MEXICO CITY,
AT THE SAME TIME,
HE HAS BEEN SEEN EATING IN VERY EXPENSIVE RESTAURANTS,
AND HE IS STAYING IN THE MOST EXPENSIVE HOTEL OF MEXICO CITY.(HILLTON)
DOES HE SACRIFICE AS HIS FOLLOWERS??
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,
HE DOES NOT AND HE WONT'
HE IS SUCH A BIG LIAR!!!!
THE ONLY THING IS THAT HE IS A GOOD SPEAKER LIKE ONE OF THOSE FRAUDULENT CHURCH LEADERS THAT AMAZINGLY TRAP PEOPLE'S MINDS LIKE YOURS.
IS AMLO REALLY YOUR HEROE?? ALSO, DONT YOU KNOW THAT HIS SON IS LIVING AS A KING IN MIAMI!!!! IF HE IS AGAINST THE RICH FOR HAVING TOO MUCH, AS HE SAYS,
WHY DOESNT HE GIVE AWAY WHAT HE HAS???
SO PLEASE DONT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MILLIONS OF MEXICANS WHO REALLY KNOW AND OTHER ONES THAT THEY ARE FINALLY REALIZING WHAT KIND OF PERSON AMLO REALLY IS!!!!
MEXICO DOES NOT WANT AMLO FOR PRESIDENT!!!!
PS: NEXT TIME YOU TALK ABOUT AMLO, PLEASE INVESTIGATE WITH REAL FINDINGS,
AS EMPTY BOXES WHO SEEMS TO BE VERY KNOWLEADGEABLE.

Posted by: Kukiss | August 23, 2006 08:47 PM

"What say you Norberto? God is a Panista?"

Nah, only that the link doesn't work. Divine intervention I guess.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 08:56 PM

Rodolfa
No mija, no estoy loco, i didnt vote for FECAL as u and your PANistas have. As to how many hours I spend here, well, ever heard of posting, then going out, then a while later, chking back in? I dont have to sit 14 hours at my comp, Unlike U, i do have a life. Am fortunate to live in a little town, in north Mexico. I dont comute very far from my home, infact, everything is pretty close. At the most, ill go maybe half hour away, non stop, thats the limit of these cities here, b4 the desert swallows everything up. So unlike u, who probally live in some terrible congested place, am in paradise. Cept for all the poverty, ppl begging at the street intersections. Young men wiping down windshields for a peso. Terrible public transportation with buses that look like something out the end of times, bleching blue black smoke at all hours. Corrput police and transitos. Underpaid workers, and their overpaid bosses. Streets that are mine fields, and when it rains, it floods. Just 10mins will do it. Prices like tortillas going for almost 7pesos a kilo, and one litro of milk going on 10pesos. Other than that, everythings fine. Oh and PeterN, yes sure u can say anything u want here, its fine, its not Mexico, infact, this place isnt anywhere. Just watch yourself in person, going on and on, about Mexican politics. Thats where 33 maybe called into effect. Not here in the ether PeterN, geesh, what a serious joe. Oh and I welcome anyone, to comment on the above posting I did about the inept work that the PRIPAN has done here in the North. Heres one for u all. Ever heard of the famous 2 then, 1 then 2 super highway? Yes, not to long ago, in Coauhila, they had this lackluster highway, that ran from torreon, to saltillo. For years, it was a dangrous streach of road, as it had traffic going both ways on just one streach of highway. As a pass time, u could count the crosses next to the highway. Well under the PRIPAN systum of doing things, they built another highway, next to the old highway. Running right next to it. But guess what? This new highway, was to be private. So they built it in some sections towering over 6 mtrs in the air. Fences on both sides, thou how anything could get on it, it being over 6mtrs tall was beyond me. Now, u would think, well, they now got 2 highways, ,running next to each other, so one could be for going one way, the other, the other way. Wrong! They both ran traffic, the old highway, both lanes, cars and buses, still having to pass inches away from each other. And the 6 mtr tall new highway? Well that one also ran traffic, both ways! Traffic running in four diffrent directions on both highways next to each other. Well its funny now to think how stupid it looked, but it wasnt funny to those familes who still crashed into each other, or on that new 6mtr tall freeway, when they flew off the highway, trying not to run into on coming traffic. All this under a PRIPAN systum. This lasted for years. It was the crazyest, most expensive highway systum in the world for its size. Now, its no longer that way, it took years for someone to figure out that it was pretty stupid and dangerous to have traffic flowing like that. So now, thou its still one of the most expensive highways in Mexico, and u still have those sections where your zooming along on streches of highways over 6mtrs in the air, not a segundo piso praytell, but, lumps of sands and rocks, place high enuff, so no one can get on, and then a road paved on it. That still exists, and u still get some odd cars or buses flying off that. Anyone form outside of Mexico, who would see this, would think, what in Gods name where they thinking? Well, PRIPAN thoughts. Thats why the PRD is such a threat to that way of thinking. Where the PRD runs things, its a change for the better, and a more logical way of doing things. Its a thrid way. Its not commie PeterN, to think outside of the mold. But thats the mentality that your stuck in, seeing everything in just 2 ways. The PRD falls outside of this way of doing things. Why is that so terrible? U cant label them commuinist, because they are not. Its not Cuba, or Chavez or North Korea, its Mexico, with a better way of doing things, than the old PRIPAN systum. Why is that so wrong? Why is that such a bad thing? When PRD people get caught doing bad things, they get kicked out. This does not happen in the PRIPAN systum. Its another way of doing things. A better way. Yet, all u have here are name calling, insults, and derogative statements, or calling someone a commie. Thats all u got to argue with. Thats so sad, because I bet, u are all decent ppl in your own world. But here, in the unworld of the net, u become frankensitens, and really bring out the worst in others. But am just really playing with U all, am not going to find anybody here. That is just a lark, and u all know that, am sure your all intelligent,Cept for the fact that u voted for FECAL, but its a free country. And its also free for AMLO and his supporter to demonstrate that their was something wrong in this election. My God, how can a country that makes intentional mistakes, like that highway I mentioned, not make a intentional mistake, to keep AMLO out of power? How hard is it to accept? From the looks of it here, mighty hard. Oh well, all we can do is try. And if the insults come, well, we have the right to hash them back. But we all know, where just having fun. I really hope so.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:09 PM

Kukiss,

You roar! This is some serious rant here.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 09:10 PM

mayaO, chiapaneca,valemadreand assorted psychos,

Kukiss is demonstrating some serious anger here. We need very few thousand of these firebrands to knock your woosy Lopista fervorosos. Watch and learn, mayaO this is real fire not Little Red Book "Lopitos told me so".

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 09:18 PM

rodolfa, try your arguments around what I just posted, u cant can U? Just thougt I would ask.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:22 PM

Kukiss, I also invite u to argue about what I just posted. U cant can U? Its to be expected.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:24 PM

I invite everyone to take the time, to read it well, dont get all huffy and puffy, just clamly read along what I posted a couple of posts above. Think, then respond. Its would be nice for a change.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:29 PM

chiapaneca,

Heard the term FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Go make your New Cuba in N.Korea, melancolico echeverrista. You think people are going to tolerate that totalitarian garbage again?

You might like Stalin good times gulag re-educating. Take your really nice ideas and stuff them. Are you mentally retarded?

Go sell Clemente Serna your spiel. He'll love it.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 09:36 PM

sorry for all the spelling errors Jerry b, I type over 90wpm on the comp. I dont proofread well enuff. Again to all lo siento, its not on purpose.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:38 PM

maya0: I am sorry but I could get passed the second line of your long post. You are too predictable.
The zocalo already stinks. When are they going to clean it up?
What a dirty people!

Kukiss: Thanks a lot for the compliment. Where can I send you your check?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 09:46 PM

emptyboxes, well, i didnt expect much from u anyways. Your anti commie rants seem from another time. What? U havent heard? Its a new siglo, but your still stuck in the old. And i guess your just to bland to read something more intresting than your own tiny thoughts.

Posted by: maya0 | August 23, 2006 09:56 PM

maya0: I voted for Felipe Calderon, he certainly doesn't look that oldie.
If this is a new siglo then what the hell are those marxist flags and those images of stalin and che guevara doing at the zocalo?
Why is Fidel Castro still the president of Cuba?
Why is Hugo Chavez yelling "Socialismo o Muerte!"?

Come on maya0, you guys are the ones stuck in the past. You haven't realized those socialist books are in the trash in the rest of the world, except for Cuba of course.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 10:01 PM

So there is a big debate in congress about the presence of the Army and the Estado Mayor Presidencial.

The PRD congressmen would like them to leave so they would have the chance to take congress by force with their porros from UNAM on September 1. Basically they want to take congress and stay there forever and create a constitutional crisis.

These imbeciles really think PAN and the President are so dumb as to let them have congress so that the lopezobradoristas can take it hostage.

What a bunch of losers.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 10:06 PM

Ceci: I was at the Zocalo this noon, and I refuse to believe what I saw...what a mess. I insist AMLO is a sick guy...he is a cookie and his own people is deserting him...I was chatting with a fellow who came from Tabasco, to support the "peje" because he really believed in him...not any more...he is leaving to his hometown to keep life as usual. He said to me: Andrés Manuel, has lost his touch and right now he is mad, watch that guy! he is crazy! do not pay attention to his "locuras", everyone at the camp is ready for getting back home...Mean time the city is converted in a ghost city...tourist population has diminished very drastically. Thanks God, the September festivities will take place under the supervision of the Army...the militars are fed up and ready to bring peace and calm to the city...Oaxaca will be straight in the next couple of weeks. Mean time the Tribunal will declare Calderon as elected President and AMLO will be forced to accept it, by his own deputies and senators, they have work to do you know? lots of it!

Posted by: Enrique Moreno R. | August 23, 2006 10:07 PM

Viper,

What you advocate is a revolution in national political culture. By the look of the shenanigans in Oxaca and El Rayo Lopez in Mexico City, one hard obstacle to overcome.

Fox has allowed this to be so these ruffians act like viceroys with their respective state as their personal fiefdom.
As long as that important first requiremnt of the law applying to each one the same you have nothing but ageless platitudes and crooks getting away with murder. As long as magical blanket immunity from prosecution for our rulers is excersided the rest will be a failed effort because crooks will be crooks.

Fuero constitucional has to disappear and Authorities held accountable.

With government types guaranteed freedom from prosecution, everything else will take twice the effort.

A political class that cares for the people first and never for their own gain is quite a revolution.

The disgrace of el Zocalo and Encinas' errand boy servililism at Lopez' command is a flaunting example that no one cares about the law.

No revolution for the forseeable future.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 10:12 PM

rodolfo: I generally agree with you and appreciate your posts much.

You wrote:
"Fox has allowed this to be so these ruffians act like viceroys with their respective state as their personal fiefdom."

I believe that with the exception of the Supreme Court, the rest of the political players, including President Fox himself, were pretty much into unexplored territory in Mexico in these last six years.
How was supposed to be under the first fully democratically elected president of Mexico after seventy years of total presidential control and total obedience from Congress and Senate and all governors?

The times when Presidents put and take aways state governatures is gone. Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De la Madrid and Salinas, all of them elected the governors and changed them as it fitted their political interests. Zedillo was perhaps more respectful and Madrazo was the first governor to refuse to be removed from power. The begining of the new times.

Today we must recognize that democracy is not completely settled in Mexico. Many states still lack democratic infrastructure but they are quickly advancing. Today any party can compete in any state. And the PRI is losing state governments every election.

But my point is that, based on these factors, the states must now be responsible for their own political stability, they must develop strong internal democratic institutions to help them settled their differences pacifically.

Our Presidential election only shows two of the Mexicos we live in. Two candidates from Tabasco with Cacique mentality, old and accustomed to have full control and obedience of their party. Two candidates form Mexico city, Campa representing a branch of the PRI and inheriting their some of its corporativism, another candidate, Mercado, representing a thinking and also sophisticated voter looking for a real change in politics, into a modern world, from the Bajio, Felipe Calderon, representing a young generation of Panistas with strong support from many conservatives and from northern Mexicans who are accustomed and reflect themselves in his party and ideology. This is of course some generalities and there are many exceptions. But I believe they reflect the societies they come from and this is only natural.
I believe President Fox must intervene at this point but we must also understand the historical political moment we find ourselves at now and President Fox is only being responsable. He knows these APPO people are allies of AMLO and are only provoking the Federal forces. AMLO and the PRD want to have some blood and stain the elections bad. So that there will be compelling reasons to annul the elections.
But that will not happen.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 10:56 PM

"Yet, all u have here are name calling, insults, and derogative statements"

OMG! My stomach hurts from laughing so hard, maya the exemplary citizen who doesn't name call, doesn't insult and doesn't use derogative statements. Maya, all that Chepo ice cream must have frozen your memory. Hey! I think I saw your picture in the paper, you're that guy that insulted Baloy at the Santos-Monterrey game, aren't you?

For those that might want to know a little more, that highway maya mentions was built under a PRI governor indeed and as long as Coahuila is governed by the PRI AND from Saltillo (the state capital) it won't get fixed because people from Saltillo are not interested in enabling the Region Lagunera as a competitor for the future. It is indeed as bad as he tries to describe it (if I didn't personally know this "highway", which is not private, it is a toll road, important difference, I wouldn't have understood half of what he said) and a big part of why it isn't fixed its because its not economically worth it because of the low volume of traffic. Oh, it happens to be 6 meters above the surrounding area because the area is a dried out lake bed. Every 20 years or so, the area will flood and the height is the only thing that will keep the road above water. The Aguanaval river has also flooded sections of the adjacent free road and locals have had to travel, free of charge, over the toll road, the only road above water.

Same for the DVR (Distribuidor Vial Revolucion), where the state and a PRI mayor gave out contracts to their friends. He just likes including the PAN cause he a hater, dog.

Maya also neglects to mention that the reason the PAN keeps winning Torreon and Lerdo is that they're doing a better job than the PRI and that the PRD's candidates... well... they suck. Torreon used to be a "carro completo" (everything but the kitchen sink) city for the PRI, now its a city that alternates power, just not with the PRD. As far as San Pedro de las Colonias goes... well... the PRD can keep it, its a violent little town.

Parras is also a small town, it lies in a valley surrounded by mountains and any expert will tell you that the best way to handle huge volumes of water that come by once every 20 to 30 years is not to build an expensive drainage system that will go unused for years on end. The best way is to respect the natural drainage routes and not build on top of them. I do not know for certain if this was the case in Parras, but for such a small town with a severe lack of resources, it seems a likely strategy.

This is not to say that the Region Lagunera is perfect, it suffers because the planners at the state capitals of Coahuila and Durango decided to keep the region an agricultural area, growing cotton as a cash crop. When Egypt started exporting cheaper cotton, the bottom fell out. Then they decided to make the area a textile center. When China started exporting cheaper clothes the bottom fell out. Maya has it right regarding the poverty aspect of the region, but it doesn't reach the levels of the deep south.

Finally, Maya, its a trap to ask somebody else to comment on local issue they know nothing about. Can you comment on the traffic situation in Santiago, Nuevo Leon, for example? Maybe the transparency problems in rural Nuevo Leon?

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 23, 2006 10:57 PM

Have you fellows read about the UNAM professors and students and labor union leaders setting up a tent at the Planton to support their leader AMLO?

The students can all of them go to hell if they want to. I mean we the tax contributors of this nation finance their low tuition and we would prefer for them to spend the time at the library. But we dont give a damn anymore, eversince they took the Rectoria tower we lost all hope.

But The Professors? The damned professors?
And we already know they will not go to the Planton in their spare time, no sir. they will ask the institution to allow them to serve time in the Planton, in working hours, and the Mexican people will pay them.

And then what are we Panistas suppose to say about this respectable institution?

This is insane and we should stop funding this bunch of marxists good for nothing.
We could save some good money if we closed down the whole UNAM.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 23, 2006 11:07 PM

I am truly enjoying myself. How predictable. Galleta....zzzzzzzzzz... I agree Maya0 I would just ignore comments like that. I think people like galleta are useful in the sense they show the character of these antidemocratic right wingers.

Don't buy the I went to the Zocalo bla bla bla fantastic story. I think I read a chronic just like that in a Panista newspaper. Is this the new game? To invent stories that follow line by line Panista strategy? mmmm I am no Antonio Sola nor do I come from Spain but I can come up with something too...

I spoke to a lot of friends from the North and they are disgusted with Calderon. They cannot believe they were fooled with the TV spots and the telephone calls demonizing Lopez Obrador. They are for voto por voto and they think Fox is a traitor to democracy. They are all telling me you know Chiapaneco I think that coward Calderon must concede pronto, he is driving the country to social instability with his stubborness not to respect popular will. He knows he lost and that is why he never wanted a recount. We feel so embarrased by him, not even with the votes the PRI governors sold to Elba Esther was he able to beat Lopez Obradror. What a looser.

Enough for today... la hora del pueblo with a new juicy story on Dennise Mearker... who will remain standing up? it will be hard to find a replacement to lier Lopez Doriga whose ratings are free falling. Seems like Dennise keeps screaming there is no fraud. Yet she refuses to air some videos with evidence of fraud. (lahoradelpueblo.blogspot.com)

PASCistas in this blog are fake panistas. I refuse to believe Mercado has backers with so much hatred in them and who are so obsessed with demonizing Lopez Obrador. I cannot accept that progressives have more in common with the extreme catholic right than with the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion. I think these are Calderonistas trying to convince readers that Calderon's jargon has a broad coalition backing him has some truth to it. Not buying it. Have PASCista friends of my own. They dont agree with the PAN for one second, in fact they reject all the neoliberal policies the PAN supports. PASCistas are for change and the PAN is pan con lo mismo which is exactly what we don't want for this country.

It is the same with the "we have the majority lero lero" fib. The PAN does not have a majority in any of the houses of Congress. A majority is 50% plus one and the PAN does not have that. Not even close. The strategy is to convince panistas that if they "won" the houses they also "won" the presidency. WRONG. They did not win anything. No majority in Congress and no majority in the votes for president, not even with the help of Elbista PRI governors. Sorry folks.



Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 11:19 PM

And now Felipe Calderon is charismatic? oh my... the lies these people tell... I thought not even Panistas bought that. In fact, the fact that they spent millions of pesos in an agressive negative campaign in TV, emails and phonecalls, to demonize Lopez Obrador proves their lack of faith in their grey candidate. He had nothing to give. He turned to breed hate as the only way to pick up some votes so fraud would not be so blatant. Sad and irresponsible to divide Mexicans so. Now the whole country has to pay the consequences of their wanting to win no matter the cost, not even at the expense of democracy and respect for the votes.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 11:27 PM

Freedom of expression is one thing. Intervention in the political affairs of Mexico while you live here as a foreigner is not. Rant is allowed. Intervention is not. If this guy gave a cent to the Calderon campaign that's a violation of the law.

You don't like the law and you are Mexican, go lobby your congressman and change it if you can. You are a foreigner and don't like it? renounce your nationality, become Mexican and do the same. Otherwise, no butting in. No voting and no aiding political campaigns.

You don't have arguments. What you support is wrong and antidemocratic. Everytime reason corners you you choose to engage in the stalin-mao-castro-chavez psycho babble. It's OLD. And tiresome. Drop it.

This is not a game in which you can weasle your way out with some naufrago story or criticism of Evo Morales sweaters.

This is a question of survival for many Mexicans whose needs have been ignored by the governments for too long. It's time for change and it's time for a new deal. It's time to share the country and change the way it's governed so all are taken into account. People believed in democracy, believed in the power of their vote. You are not taking that away from them. Not so easily pal.

The retarded comment? no comment here, I guess there is some truth to annoying children should be seen not heard. Grow up.

chiapaneca,

Heard the term FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Go make your New Cuba in N.Korea, melancolico echeverrista. You think people are going to tolerate that totalitarian garbage again?

You might like Stalin good times gulag re-educating. Take your really nice ideas and stuff them. Are you mentally retarded?

Go sell Clemente Serna your spiel. He'll love it.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 09:36 PM

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 23, 2006 11:53 PM

Emptyboxes wrote:
"So there is a big debate in congress about the presence of the Army and the Estado Mayor Presidencial.

The PRD congressmen would like them to leave so they would have the chance to take congress by force with their porros from UNAM on September 1. Basically they want to take congress and stay there forever and create a constitutional crisis."

Suppose that AMLO became president. And, further suppose that Congress, dominated by the PAN (supported by enough PRIistas and others to give them a working majority) refuses to enact his proposals, and starts investigating people like Camacho Solis for corruption. Further suppose that, by pure coincidence, some CGH or Atenco nutcases decide to "tomar" congress because "the people" are outraged. Does anybody here think that AMLO would stop it?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:06 AM

Chiapaneco, you have not answered my question. Should the United States and other countries (Canada) where there is a significant ammount of Mexican citizens adopt an article 33 type of law and ban dual citizenship?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:14 AM

Empty Boxes, thanks for the check offer,
But I think Maya would need it better,
As AMLO would be unemployed very soon,' due to his lack of Education and work skills. :)
This is why AMLO is so desperate, he does not know better then trying to be on power, because without it, AMLO has no more chance to keep stilling from the Mexicans, as he did before. Especially earning a huge salary as a government politician.
Because Maya if you are so intelectual, Can you tell us here,
How Much your Heroe AMLO makes per month??
Do you have any idea?
Or you also believe that he is protesting without getting paid??
If Maya wants to believe in him, It will be good that Maya gets two jobs and contributes to his soon coming unemployment check and his urgent physiquiatric doctor's appointments.
Like it or not!!!!MAYA AND CHIAPANECO,
MEXICO WOULD CONTINUE TO BE A DEMOCRAT COUNTRY, A COUNTRY THAT WOULD CONTINUE WITH GOOD INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, AND HIS FREEDON.
(AS HAVENT YOU THOUGHT THAT AMLO CAN PROHIBIT FROM USING THE INTERNET AND YOU LOSE YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH??

FELIPE CALDERON IS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF MEXICO. FELIPE CALDERON IS WHAT MEXICO VOTED FOR!!!!
The people that believes in Calderon, really believe in him.
NOT LIKE the people that follow AMLO,
They follow because they expect something in return, either to get paid to follow him, or to obtain some personal gain, promised by his political party.

Enrique Moreno and Empty Boxes, I insist
I agree with your thoughts,
Especially with thanking GOD that the military would allow the September Festivities to take place in Mexico.
The Mexicans that are real democrats want to celebrate the patriotic dates with peace and order!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 24, 2006 02:00 AM

How droll... talk to the galleta monster she gets you... the topic of this blog is the Mexican elections. It is a clear lack of arguments and reason that makes people bring other countries laws and policies for the sake of creating drama.

One word: sovereignty, the claim of every state to full self-governance. It's up to the citizens of those countries and not up to me, a foreigner, to decide if they want an Article 33 in their Constitution. In Mexico there IS an Article 33 and those who violate it are violating the Constitution.

Buenas noches.


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 03:07 AM

Maya0, galleta left you a question:

"Because Maya if you are so intelectual, Can you tell us here,
How Much your Heroe AMLO makes per month??"

Uh? I kinda feel sorry for Calderon when I read something stuff like this. He and his corporate cronies did spend millions of dollars on a smear campaign to demonize Lopez Obrador. This proved to be effective with some segments of the population who are terribly lacking in democratic conviction and did not take the trouble to confirm rumors spread.

Nevermind, with supporters and publicists like galleta I am not surprised Calderon was not able to convince enough voters to win the election fair and square.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 03:17 AM

"PASCistas in this blog are fake panistas. I refuse to believe Mercado has backers with so much hatred in them and who are so obsessed with demonizing Lopez Obrador. I cannot accept that progressives have more in common with the extreme catholic right than with the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion. I think these are Calderonistas trying to convince readers that Calderon's jargon has a broad coalition backing him has some truth to it. Not buying it. Have PASCista friends of my own. They dont agree with the PAN for one second, in fact they reject all the neoliberal policies the PAN supports. PASCistas are for change and the PAN is pan con lo mismo which is exactly what we don't want for this country."

Chiapaneco, maybe your PASCistas friends didn't actually know what Patricia Mercado stands for. Have you ever been to the party's webpage? Did you see the debates? Patricia Mercado does support free trade, private investment (not privatization) of Pemex and CFE. That's a very different position from AMLO's old fashioned statism and nationalism. Patricia Mercado, in the other hand, does support equality for the minorities, for indians, homosexuals, disabled people. The PASC also supports a stronger welfare state. All the stuff aboved mentioned have been completely ignored by AMLO. The PASC doesn't believe there was a fraud. The PASC have always trusted in our institutions and in the TRIFE and is willing to respect its ruling, whichever that might be. The PRD is going to do that? I seriously doubt it. I want, from the bottom of my heart, a left wing government for my country. But AMLO was never an option to me. What you call "hatred" towards AMLO, in reality, is deception and anger to me. Deception because he has declared himself a left wing candidate, when he is not, and he has used all the capital that committed mexican leftist have so hardly earned for a personal cause, which is his obvious lust for power. Anger because he has trashed institutions like the IFE with "evidence" of a "fraud" when there was none; he has disrupted social peace and he has lied to many many people, taking advantage of their despair for a personal cause. He is not a social fighter for me, he is not a true leftist nor he has ever been. He is an opportunist, that's all.

It is funny how AMLO supporters call every other leftist who doesn't support Peje traitors, panistas in desguise, catholic right wingers. I'm not catholic, I've never been baptised. I'm an atheist. I'm not a panista and I have never been one. I'm not a right winger either. But I guess that in AMLO's black and white world everyone who's not with him is against him. Everyone who's not a pejista is immoral and corrupted. He would have been some veeeery open-minded and tolerant president... right? I don't think so.

Posted by: bunburina | August 24, 2006 03:19 AM

Bunburina, I guess it's hard for many to accept they have been wrong or they hold prejudices. I agree with the PASC agenda and I voted for AMLO what does that make of me? As I have said before if Mexico had a two person ticket I would have liked for Mercado to join AMLO.

I believe AMLO might not qualify as a full-credentials leftist to all but he is a progressive nonetheless in the sense that he promotes change and not more of the same. I lived in Mexico City and he was my major. I thought he did a pretty good job at governing the city, much better than the priista regentes before him. Results speak for themselves, Ebrard won with a huge margin, how's that for democratic accountability!

Have you read and studied the Proyecto Alternativo de Nación? AMLO never opposed private investment. What he opposed was crony capitalism and impunity which are bad for our country as a whole. What he proposed was more social investment which is terribly needed in a country with gross inequalities. What he promised was a cabinet where women would take half of the positions. A government that would make poverty erradication its top priority.

Before the Washington Post jumped on the bandwagon of the smear campaign this paper published a piece on which they compared AMLO to FDR. Have you read about FDR? I guess he was a bit of a revolutionary too :) Nonetheless, he is remembered as one of the best presidents of the United States who was able to lift the country out of the Depression.

Is it intolerance to denounce fraud? On another post I stated that Alternativa did not have sufficient representation at the polls, nor at the recount of the acts. Mistakes in the acts harmed Alternativa too, did you know that? Would you have wanted your vote to be erased or to count as less because of people introducing more than one ballot?

I can see that it might not be good politics for Mercado to enter the post-electoral conflict. But still, the stakes are not high for her. We are convinced AMLO won and that fraud was committed to impose Calderon. Would you have protested if that was Mercado's case? I think you would have, I think you would have fought to the last against the imposition.

What I cannot explain to myself is why a PASCista would engage in AMLO hate-speech if not as victim of a rightist ploy to divide progressive forces which are the majority in this country. I dont get this virulencia and agressiveness. I simply don't.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 03:48 AM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 07:35 AM

bunburina: They only clever politician these days is Patricia Mercado.
I was listening to Jose Cardenas yesterday and heard how she said first that the president was wrong on declaring a winner and that we all should wait for the TRIFE and then that the President should order the Army to either carry out their military parade on another place or not to do it at all, and the same for the Grito, she said it was better for the Fox to do it in Dolores or somewhere else.
She said something wise: Don't carry out the Desfile if this people stand on the way, they will pay for their mistakes, the people will either reward them or punish them.

That's what I liked most about her expression, to let the people see who opposses the Desfile and Fiestas Patrias, who wants to create trouble. And that the President and the Army should be humble enough not to fall into provocations.

It's the only wise voice these days.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 07:44 AM

Mexicans and Americans Thinking Together, a non-profit foundation, compiles news on the Mexican election and immigration at www.MATT.org and through its blog at http://mexicanosyamericanos.blogspot.com/

We have a post from last night about Calderon's plan to add $5.5 billion in additional social spending.

Posted by: Adam Segal | August 24, 2006 09:29 AM

mayaO,

Don't hate Calderon because he's beautiful. He also has brains.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aRRnNgtgYbtE

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 10:04 AM

"Cartoon arguments" alright, because saying that because he knows a PASCista or two that then EVERY single PASCista must be exactly like the one he knows is NOT a cartoon argument. He who knows a guy or two from "the north" (the north for him stars, oh well, somewhere around Puebla, since he's in Chiapas) so then EVERYONE from the north must think like those friends of his. Since some PANistas are religious conservatives then they all must be. Yes, those are not cartoon arguments. Maybe he should ask those same friends why the PRD won practically nothing in the north, why the PAN won the most congressmen in the representative proportion allocations. In case someone doesn't quite know how that works, those types of congressmen are allocated to the losing parties in districts so as to guarantee that people who voted for someone other than the winner will still have representation. What that translates into, is that, where the PAN didn't win, it was still the second most voted for party AND that it didn't lose by much. It also means that the PRD where it lost, was tied with the PRI, not a close second. Finally, he also says that "majority" is 50%+1 when THEY say it is, because AMLO likes to say that he won by mandate of the majority of Mexicans. Of course, we know he didn't win 50%+1, don't we? There is a term relative majority I believe.

Cartoon arguments for sure.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 24, 2006 10:51 AM

Today's Wall Street Journal has a nice editorial condemning AMLO and his "mob." Because of him, they say, "Mexico may be on the brink of undoing a generation of hard-won political reform."

Another quote: "If the court (the election tribunal) succumbs to the temptation to appease the politics of the streets, an era of instability may commence."

This is what is at stake now. This has gone well beyond any complaint about fraud. It is now AMLO and his surly followers against Mexico and its future. Let's hope those who favor a modern and prosperous Mexico prevail and that AMLO soon fades away. Maybe he can return to Tabasco and write his has-been memoirs.

Posted by: Goyo | August 24, 2006 11:19 AM

It looks like AMLO is going to declare himself presidente (for life?) on Sept 16. Maybe Tabasco and Chiapas can be convinced to secede from the union and he can become president of a new central american banana republic.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 11:38 AM

Ariel, well it nice that U know some of the local flavor here in la laguna, but my reason for bringing this up, is to show that not only here, but all over Mexico, do u have this happening in one way or other in PRIPAN dominated towns and states. Now in Lerdo city, their was a alcaldesa, Ms. Castro, who won, and took the PRI out of office, however, what she did do, was nothing, just like the PRI. Wait, she did do something, she spent over 30thousand dollars on a bridge for pedestrians, that went no where, and after it was completed, nobody but the cholos would use it to urinate on it, or fill it with graffiti. Now 30 thousand dollars may not seem like a lot of money, but it sure in hell would have gone for a lot better things that where more important, than a painted blue bridge with MS. Castros name on it. Oh and your not telling the truth about Lerdo and torreon having back 2 back PAN mayors. Not true. After Ms. Castro, a old PRI Mayor won, and he then knock down that 30 thousand dollar bridge to no where. 30 grand down the toilet. Hows that for PRIPAN effenciency? Oh and in torreon, after the 1st PAN mayor won, the PAN lost the mayors office again to the PRI. So no, they are not solid PAN strongholds. But guess what? Ms. Castro won again in Lerdo. Shows how short people memories have here. The PRD in your so called violent little town, of San Pedro, well, it has less violence than little old Lerdo, and is being better run by the PRD than Lerdo and Torreon combined. These are facts, even thou u want to ignore them. But again, ignoring facts run amok with lots of people. Can u imgaine, 30 thousand dollars, its not chump change, was thrown into the garbage, by a PANista so called better politician than the PRI. The proof is in the pudding. Doesnt matter if u want to ignore this. But the PAN, is not always better than the PRI, its more of the same old things. And dont knock local examples, they are good things to bring up, because they can be used as good examples of whats wrong in Mexico. Why is that a bad thing? Maybe, because it makes the PAN, look just as bad as the PRI. And if people didnt understand about that highway I mentioned, its because they probally couldnt beleive it was true, but thanks 2 u, u confirmed that it did happen. Oh, and in all my many years, ive never seen, the old highway flooded over. The aguanaval, is miles away from, their, so i caught u at a lie. Keep lying to yourselfs, its what makes u people think that FECAL won, when he didnt, he lost. AMLO is the legitimate President of Mexico, and thats a fact.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 11:38 AM

Oh and one more thing, about that highway in the sky, that 6mtr in the air highway. Well, if it was made that way on purpose to keep floodwaters off it, that means it was built with some idea of protection right? WRONG! Their is no where to pull off the highway, if u get a flat. U would have to have the luck to be near a tiny island where u can pull away from the highway, but if your not, and its miles of road with no emergency place to pull off. U are stuck changing the tire, right on the road, with traffic roaring right by u. No highway in the world doesnt have a area next to the highway in case u have to pull over, just this crazy highway, its unique in the world. And u just want to blame the PRI for that? No way, PAN legistlatures, where also involved in approving this project. So the PAN in Coauhila cant get off scott free form this. Keep on ignoring the facts, but the PRIPAN are the same thing.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 11:48 AM

I love the fact, that most PAN supporters here, dont even want to discuss what ive posted, because they have no way to argue around it. They rather ignore it like emptyboxes, or insult like Rodolfo, or Rant like that Kukiss. Only Ariel, would touch on this subject, but ran circles around the facts, and wish only to lay the blame on the PRI, then saw to take issue because I touched on a local thing. Must have hit a sensative nerve. I guess bringing up facts, and not rants, are a no no here.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 11:56 AM

uh? read my post. I was making fun of cartoonish arguments (I-met-a-guy-from- Tabasco-in-the-Zocalo-who-told-me-he-hates Lopez-Obrador-babble). No credibility there sir. I do have a lot of PASCista friends and they DO NOT engage in hate speech as all Calderonistas do. All of the Calderonistas in this blog as a matter of fact. The thing is PASCistas do believe in change. That clearly sets them apart from the PAN and the reactionary groups that supported the hate campaign to aid failing Calderon.

Keep up!

Maya0, did you read galleta's msg?

I am glad AMLO in talking to the European press and in this case, to Le Monde. I must say the British newspapers, Financial Times and The Guardian have done a much better job at providing impartial and neutral coverage to the post-electoral conflict. Much better than American newspapers. The whole world has to understand it is no small matter what they are trying to do in Mexico which is an authoritarian imposition against popular will who voted for change.

No majority for the PAN in Congress so leave the clapping foca routine. It's called a plurality and it's not enough to pass anything. Sorry. The PAN in Congress will be highjacked by the PRI and Elba Ester. As we approach mid-term elections same story of 2003 all over again, the PAN's ineffectiveness will make it once more the loser in Congress. The winners will be the PRI and the PRD. Again.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 12:07 PM

For those who can read French here is the link to the AMLO interview with Le Monde:

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-805589,0.html

I think some newspapers have reached the point of no return in this issue. By falling pray to the golpista line of the PAN they have missed the chance to cover what's going on in Mexico with objectivity and accountability to their audiences who have a right to be informed.

Now they are stuck defending the undefendable: puppet Calderon that's meant to be imposed as president even though he did not win the elections.

They have chosen to not cover irregularities paving the way for an authoritarian regression.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 12:13 PM

So Lorenzo Meyer comes to Trujillo's show today talking and talking and trying to defend what it's impossible to defend now.
A crazy man, a lunatic yelling in the street everyday, irrespectful of whoever dares to disagree with him.
What a sad ending for a man who was supposed to be a stateman. Who called himself a democrat. Who claim to represent the poor.
And Lorenzo Meyer now, for the second time, cast a doubt on whether there was ever any fraud. He conceded. Because he realizes that it is they, the ones who claim there is fraud, they are the ones on defense and not the IFE or the TRIFE, they, the PRD, the leftists intellectuals, they are ones being questioned, society is demanding them so show their evidences, because everytime they come up with a video, it is fake evidence. everytime they come up with a stockpile of Actas, they show nothing but small insignificant errors that affect no particular candidate.
So now Lorenzo Meyer says that the whole tragedy is the fault of the right. Yes, the right wing Party and the right wing government is responsible. They were not kind enough to understand that the PRD was going to impugnate, they were not kind enough to please all their demands.
But they cannot understand it, they don't get it, Mexican people are not so dumb as to believe all the left says and offers, including their tropical candidates, the election itself shows us a very plural country, PAN 206 congressmen, PRD 127, PRI 107, etc.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 12:14 PM

Kudos for Le Monde, the BBC, Financial Times and The Guardian :)

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 12:16 PM

chiapaneco: What's up with AMLO declaring himself president and turning his back on TRIFE and Congress? Do you support him?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 12:24 PM

Maya, well, finally, the semblance of dialogue. Since you've come around a bit, I'll let you in on a little secret: emptyboxes likes to get you going on one of those profanity-laden tirades which we all find extremely funny, that's why he posts extreme-right posts that he probably doesn't really believe.

First, even though its not in the order:
"But the PAN, is not always better than the PRI". Very true, I'm not saying it is. If they're bums too, we have to throw them out too. Please keep this in mind as you read the rest.

Now, in order of what you addressed:
I can't say I keep up with Lerdo, I only go there for the Ice Cream but I know there have been some problems like the trash dump and rumblings of corruption. Throw the PAN out then, I don't mind, but I think its symptomatic that even with those problems people don't want to go back to the PRI and they still don't want to give the PRD a chance. There is room there for self-analysis at the PRD.

"Oh and your not telling the truth about Lerdo and torreon having back 2 back PAN mayors. Not true." I didn't say you were lying, I said you omitted certain facts, like the party in power when those constructions went on. In this case, both were done during PRI administrations.

"[San Pedro] is being better run by the PRD than Lerdo and Torreon combined." Still, they were about to lose the town, weren't they? Electoral violence keeps popping up there, you can't deny that. If it is being better run, why are people not flocking to the PRD in the surrounding cities? This is not rhetorical, its a real question. Besides, you know that the area, being the first place where the "Reparto Agrario" was put into effect, is inclined to follow El Tata's son (Cardenas) and hence the PRD. It still has a hard time staying in office, why?

"And dont knock local examples, they are good things to bring up, because they can be used as good examples of whats wrong in Mexico" Didn't knock them, but you were taunting people into commenting on them, something they obiously can't do because they only know what you've told them. My question still stands: are you able to comment on traffic issues in Santiago, Nuevo Leon, or transparency problems in the rural communities of the same state? Those are real problems too.

"And if people didnt understand about that highway I mentioned, its because they probally couldnt beleive it was true". No, they didn't understand it because your exposition was grammatically atrocious.

"Oh, and in all my many years, ive never seen, the old highway flooded over." I know of at least 3 times.

"The aguanaval, is miles away from, their, so i caught u at a lie." Look in the local newspaper archive. The fact you don't remember (perhaps you didn't care?) is not proof that it didn't happen.

"AMLO is the legitimate President of Mexico, and thats a fact." We'll see, but it doesn't look good for your side. It is also hardly a fact, he is behind in the tally, THAT is a fact, the rest is in dispute and the tribunal will rule.

"And u just want to blame the PRI for that? No way, PAN legistlatures, where also involved in approving this project". I didn't say the highway is perfect, but you put that "6 meter high" characteristic as being primary example of the bad construction. There is a reason for it being that high (you do remember the Laguna de Mayran, right?), that wasn't bad construction or planning. The fact that there is no shoulder IS a good example of the poor planning. Also, even if the PAN voted for approval of the financing for the highway, it could not have possibly been involved in the planning and building, it had no power at all at the time, not even a single town hall in the state. If you miscontrue facts or just make them up, somebody is going to take you to task.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 24, 2006 12:25 PM

Well, all i know,that this poor place we all live in, "es propiedad del Sr. Matanza." Amlo is the little hope that things will change for the better. Untill then, ill keep believing what Mano chau has to sing about.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 12:51 PM

Maya0,

You never answered my questions. They are not rhetorical.

Are you saying that nine years is not enough to fix the DF? Then, why are six years enough to fix all of Mexico's problems?


Posted by: TG | August 23, 2006 01:26 PM

Posted by: TG | August 24, 2006 12:51 PM

Chiapaneco, the Guardian impartial? Please. Or does swallowing AMLO's pile of lies qualify a paper as "impartial". The BBC and Le Monde are not much better. Fox News is more impartial than they are, at least it tries to present both sides of an issue.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 12:52 PM

For the life of me I can't figure out why you're so happy about Le Monde's article, it's not endorsing AMLO. The only interesting part is that AMLO is convening that "Democratic National Convention" so that he will be named "legitimate president" by it. That'll be fun to watch.

Posted by: | August 24, 2006 12:54 PM

THIS FROM CRONICA:

"López prohíbe leer.

Con todo su respeto a la libertad de expresión, López Obrador mandó no leer Crónica, Impacto, Reforma, El Gráfico, Unomasuno y El Economista.
En sus campamentos esos diarios están proscritos.


Seguramente que si López ve a alguien leyendo Crónica, lo acusará de traidor y vendido.


El veto a los diarios, y Televisa, TVAzteca y Canal 40, se propala por medio de volantes en la ciudad."

mayaO,

Get off your little behind and start the Pol Potista pamphlet Revolution. Papeleta por papeleta, casita por casita.Lopitos says so, he no like FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.


Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 01:03 PM

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Love is Hate
Lopitos says so
He is great.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:07 PM

Fox asked people not to read the newspapers because according to him they told a bunch of lies.

Democratic accountability? People from Mexico City by and large approve of the PRD governments performance. Ebrard's margin is way compelling and much larger than Lopez Obrador's margin over Creel six years ago. I guess the voters have spoken and they don't agree with you.

They also think Fox did not fulfill his campaign promises and did a poor job as president. He lost the midterm election and was a lame duck for the rest of the sexenio. Now grey Calderon, aided by a massive and very full funded media campaign not to promote him but to demonize Lopez Obrador was not even able to win fair and square. He got less votes than Fox. Democratic accountability? the PAN failed.

Great article by Le Monde. Fox News? Pleaaaaaaaaaaase.... Murdoch and Berlusconi are now heading to the mr. impartial best journalism award? Go talk to galleta... seriously. She agrees with you. She can read Cronica too. They give it away for free did you know that? Even Brozo called them chayoteros. Cronica is just plain trash, at least Reforma is profoundly anti-AMLO but manages to get at least articles with some sense to them.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 01:25 PM

TG, where did i ever post that Fox had more than enuff time in his 6years to fix all of Mexicos promblems? The PAN, came into exsitence back in 1939, ten years after the PRI, and el Jefe Diego has been around quite more than just 6years. The PAN with the PRI, has been at the top rungs of power in Mexico, and to try to invent that the PAN is innocent of any of Mexicos promblems, is not facing reality.
Rodolfo
where have u ever heard AMLO say one itoa pro communist? Why do u love 2 invent? Where have I posted any love for commies?
See how much u and others like u lie? U bring up half baked ideas, that have no basis in reality. Point to a picture with AMLO holding up a satlin or marx pic. A picture with him with Castro or Chavez? Their is none, its just one lie after another. Thats all u have to go on, lies, like the lie that FECAL won, he didnt, he lost, thats why he dont and u dont, and other PAN supporters dont want a full recount. Because the lies will be so much, it will cover the sun.

Oh

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 01:27 PM

Following media that covers both sides... I have found it quite intriguing that The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Dallas Morning News have managed to cover only one side of the story, the side of the PAN which they have also let it define all editorial comment regarding the post-electoral conflict and the civil resistance movement to promote a full recount of the votes.

Los Angeles Times has published negative propaganda articles by Arturo Sarukhan and Jorge Castañeda, both members of the Calderon campaign that do little more than trashing Lopez Obrador in the line of the negative Tv spots we all had to endure for months. No replica there or have you seen an article by Porfirio Muñoz Ledo, Ortiz Pinchetti or Camacho there? No sir. Only enough space for AMLO trashing in those pages.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 01:30 PM

Chiapaneco, the fact that a bunch of unwashed chilangos approve of AMLO is not really news. They always have, like good clients they can be bought quite cheaply by any sweet talking populist. What does that have to do with the rest of the country, where AMLO lost convincingly? Or do Chilangos get to choose for the rest of us?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:34 PM

One way to clear everything up would be a run off election between AMLO and Calderon. Why is AMLO not calling for one? To be sure, runoffs are not provided for in law, but neither is a vote by vote recount or the occupation of Reforma by ever dwindling crowds. Since AMLO sees the law as being "flexible", again, why is he not calling for a runoff??????? Could it be that he knows he would lose?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:37 PM

Can anybody beat this classic:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_016

Avoid this if you are a humorless,........ whatever.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 01:37 PM

La mentira es la verdad. That should be the logo for the PAN and their followers.
Pobre de Mexico, tan lejos de Dios, y tantos mentirosos del PAN.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 01:38 PM

Poor Jerry... he thinks Monterrey must have a voto de calidad in Mexican elections. Like it or not AMLO won the most votes in this election, with support coming from all states of the Republic.

No run-off needed just a full recount to ensure vote is respected. Full recount is legal and necessary. Don't go on spreading that panista bs that full recount is ilegal. It is not. That's only jargon to convice Panistas there is no need for a recount that would show AMLO as a winner AND expose all Panista and elbista fraudulent tactics.

Felipe Calderon was an antidemocratic coward for not calling for a full recount. That would have eased the way for the Tribunal to order one to provide much needed certainty and legitimacy to close electoral results coming after a campaign of hatred promoted by the PAN who had no candidate, no platform and only fear stemming from ignorance as an ally.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 01:41 PM

Chiapaneco, you lost. Get over it. Just because all of your limousine liberal university buddies voted for AMLO by no means means the rest of Mexico did. Shortly the TEPJF will rule, and that will be that. And, frankly, if AMLO wants to keep tearing up the DF, I have no problem with that. You see, I do not live there, and the people who do live there voted for AMLO, so they deserve him.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:45 PM

Way back when I first jion this blog, I suggested their be a run off election, and if i remember, I was told in no uncertain terms that I was a ignorant, and that the law didnt provide for it.
Now PAN supporters have caught on to the idea at last? They will never go for it.
AMLO would beat FECAL easy in a runoff.
Let their be a runoff, lets call for one, but of course, those in the PAN, will argue once again that the law doesnt allow it. U cant win with these types of people. Donde la mentiras es la verdad para ellos.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 01:48 PM

Maya, I never said that a runoff was illegal (although it probably is...) Anyway, since when has legality been a problem for your mesias? But since you want a runoff too, maybe you can answer my question. Why has not AMLO called for one???????

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 01:52 PM

JerryB,

I never thought so few words could make me laugh that much. That little poem is a gem.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 01:57 PM

Here is a likely scenario if the Tribunal responds to Vicente Fox's command and validates fraud to impose Calderon.

The citizen recount will take place. No burning of the ballots allowed now. Citizens will invite independent international observers (so long Salafranca!) to watch over the process. All irregularities and PAN and Elba Esther's fraudulent tactics will be fully exposed to Mexico and the world. The citizen recount will prove AMLO won the election.

Puppet Calderon gets a one way ticket to Ireland out of Mexico and asks his boss Salinas to recommend a few pubs he can stop by and drown his sorrows in alcohol while in exile.

Other examples in Latin America of presidents falling of the chair? Many in the last few years: De la Rúa, Fujimori, Sanchez de Lozada in Bolivia come to mind. Calderon would be alone in his failure.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 01:58 PM

I am falling of the chair with laughter! Now we are limousine liberals? I thought we were a bunch of piojosos who don't pay taxes and can be run over by the strong right wing apparatus in a second.

Wake up! AMLO's support comes from a broad coalition of groups from all social classes that resemble very much the constituency of the Democrats in the US. What draws us all together is our conviction that this country has had enough of corrupt governments that address the needs of a very small group while neglecting the majority.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 02:04 PM

Chiapaneco, maybe you can answer the question, WHY DOESN'T AMLO CALL FOR A RUNOFF???????? What is he afraid of?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 02:04 PM

A run-off is not legal though I personally believe this could be addressed this sexenio in a much needed electoral reform.

A full recount is not only legal but necessary. Calderon did not want it, though he new a large percentage of the people he wants to govern are convinced he did not win. What was he afraid of?

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 02:08 PM

A full recount is not legal either, unless you impugn all the polling places, which the PRD failed to do. Blocking Reforma is not legal. Attempting to storm into congress is not legal. Since legality does not seem to be a problem, why not call for one?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 02:12 PM

TG, 12:51 PM

mayaO is a thinker, not a mathematician.

Posted by: | August 24, 2006 02:12 PM

Chiapaneco wrote:

Wake up! AMLO's support comes from a broad coalition of groups from all social classes

Why didn't they vote then?

Posted by: | August 24, 2006 02:24 PM

For the bennefit of thos who don't read french, visit this link, I'm too lazy to translate it myself:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fweb%2Farticle%2F0%2C1-0%2C36-805589%2C0.html&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

See if you can find why Chia-pacheco is so enthutiastic about it.

Posted by: | August 24, 2006 02:31 PM

No name

This broad coalition did vote for AMLO and ensured he won the most votes in the election, despite an agressive negative campaign against him that was meant to influence undecided voters and despite fraudulent tactics by the PAN and elbistas on election day.

The Tribunal could have ordered a full recount just in aras of certeza after a close election, in a young democracy that had survived a polarizing campaign with federal government intervention to impose Calderon. Casillas impugnadas legaloid jargon bla bla bla. If the Tribunal wanted it it could order a full recount. It has the faculty to do so. PAN jargon or no PAN jargon. The fact that it didn't is because of the pressure by the PAN not to clarify doubts. Calderon knows he is toast if there is a full recount and the PAN would also be toast when irregularities and fraud are confirmed.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 02:36 PM

Heres a little gem. Anyone remember that Mexico, almost legalized the possesion of small amount of drugs? Kingpins, like El Chapo, would still be bought to justice, but the consumer, would be left alone. No more lining jails with non violent drug offenders, while killers and rapists get let go, because their is no room for them. The Pan the Pri, the Prd, and other parties voted to allow this. All with the aprroval of Fox! Hurray for democracy in action and the will of the majority.
But this item got picked up by the major media in the USA, and soon, u had San Diegos Mayor, crying foul on the international bridge, yelling, that Fox and the Mexicans are crazy to allow this. And he would do everything in his power to stop it. Soon he was joined by other mayors of other US border towns. All calling for Washington to intervene on their behalf, so that Fox and the Mexican goverment could be stopped.
Emptyboxes loves to rant that Cuba interfered with their tiny little video of Ahumada, which helped clear up Foxs hand in the desafuero. PANistsa yelled and kicked that no fair for Cuba to dare butt into Mexicos affairs.
But did u hear them say anything at all about the USA presuring Fox not to sign this new law, that the majority of both houses in Mexico had approved. What did Fox do? He betrayed democracy, he backed down, he put the pen away, and didnt do what Mexico needed. A good solution to the drug maddness. Even the most conservative magazine in the USA, The National Review, analyzed this new law, and said it was a good thing, that Mexico was bold in trying something new.
Yet Fox sold out Mexico. At the call of the USA. What about that? Is that not butting into Mexicos affairs? Why no PANistas yelling about that? Huh emptyboxes? Because they care not about Mexico de verdad. They are Mexican sellouts. Just like Fox, when he sold out Democracy in Mexico, by going against the will of the people who wanted a new law to fight the drug war in a better more humane way. It was no suprise then, when he sold out democracy on the 2nd of July.

Posted by: maya0 | August 24, 2006 02:51 PM

I'm back from the French connection 2:31PM entry.

I brought back this super secret Lopez maintenance manual, for your eyes only:

Maintenance
Manual Andres Lopez Obrador: "Me am stolen the presidency"

After lopistas memorize with a zealot's fervor the "Little Red Book"-inspired peroration they are sent out to educate the world on the Rayito's way, or the highway philosophy.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 03:52 PM

Maya, look, if you want to make a fair comparison, then you should compare that Cuban video with a hypothetical NSA recording of AMLO. That would go along the same lines. Even though I support the legalization of drugs, its clear that we have zero leverage when the US comes knocking to our door, threatening whatever it wants to threaten. If Mexico was in, say, the middle east, then we would have nothing to lose. But they're our neighbors and they have the power to do something about it in many ways, economic sanctions, trade barriers, , etc, etc. Would YOU have paid the price? Be serious. Also, do we not demand that they get moving with a new immigration law? Aren't we butting in their internal affairs?

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 24, 2006 04:05 PM

There once was a mesias named AMLOt
Who was the victim of a PAN complot
Recount the casillas he sought
But to impugn all of them he forgot
So all that was left to do was whine--a lot

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 04:16 PM

Maya, when we stop interfering in the US's internal affairs by sponsering stupidities like May 1, then and only then can we ask them to but out of our affairs. And, yes, the drug law was a good idea.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 04:20 PM

I made this comment on Ana Maria's news section concerning the German interview with Fox.

rodolfo said...
Ana Maria,
What he meant was vaya con dios, perdedista. Felipe, you are my new amigo. The chachalaca has spoken, hear the roar.
This Fox Reloaded amigo, crazy like a fox!

5:37 AM

http://mexicotoday.blogspot.com/2006/08/news-summary-for-august-24th-am.html

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 04:42 PM

Jerry B,

You have found your true literary persona. Heady times bring true character and unforseen genius within us.

Lopez of the Sun, we are indebted to you for bringing forth one poet's hidden and discovered, clear and heroic voice among the chaos.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 04:55 PM

The election was stolen, it is plain to see
AMLO says so, and he would never lie to you or me
So on Reforma we will sit
While our maximum leader pitches a fit
But Calderon as president is all one can forsee

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 05:12 PM

Chiapaneco, while they are at it, how about a full recount in Tabasco too, as well as investigations of PRD vote buying in Chiapas. Give it up. You lose.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 05:24 PM

Ceci,

This is the beggining of the end to the false construction "observers saw nothing" communication strategy to support a fraudulent imposition.

Alianza Civica, Mexico's most prestigious group of observers, who confessed before not having enough observers on July 2 to give an informed opinion is NO" saying irregularities found during the partial recount are no human mistakes. AC declares there were

Alianza Civica asks for the Tribunal to act with responsibility and clarify all doubts before ruling on the election. They say the PAN lost votes in all the states in the partial recount and that constitutes a trend which must be clarified.

They also called for a full immediate recount in Guanajuato were gross irregularities were evinced during the partial recount.

Here is the note from La Jornada
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/08/24/011n1pol.php

I wonder if the Aznar and Salafranca EU combo will be able to keep on covering up irregularities to help their friend Calderon.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 05:25 PM

An example of the hypocrisy of the right who has used the "messianic" babble to discredit a very real demand for change in Mexico.

Catholic groups and, in many cases the Catholic church in Mexico, promoted the vote to favor Calderon. This is against electoral laws in Mexico.

Grupo Tepeyac, a guadalupano group distributed pamphlets with the image of Calderon as Juan Diego, the Mexican who according to the Catholic Church saw the Virgin Mary. Apparently the likeness was intended for the faithful to believe that the Virgin Mary also talks to Calderon. Sad manipulation.

The pamphlet also warns about voting yellow (for Lopez Obrador) as that would be paramount to a sin.

Take a look at little Felipe who takes advice directly from the Virgin Mary according to his promoters. No messianic, not tropical but quite "saint-like".


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3311/2101/1600/grupo%20tepeyac.jpg


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 05:45 PM

Chiapaneco, just a few things:

Being progressive doesn't mean just to ptomote change. Changes can be either good or bad. A progressive tries to change in a positive way and looking to the future. You may disagree with me, but I never saw that in AMLO at any time. On the contrary, in AMLO I saw a leap backwards. The only one, in my eyes, whith a progressive agenda was Patricia Mercado. As Denisse Dresser said it on Proceso two weeks ago, AMLO made the diagnosis of our country's problems right, but he didn't give the necessary solutions to them.

I am a chilanga too. I've seen AMLO's work first hand and, you are right, he's way better than any other priista in the position. But that is far, far away from being qulified to run the nation. What about the clientelism, the ambulantes the pirate taxis run by Bejarano? The corruption of Bejaro, Imaz, Ponce etc.? Insecurity? The periferico was a nice move to win sympathy, but who is taking advantage of that? The people who own cars, middle class, not the poor ones. He was too coward to solve the real problem that is our horrible public transportation system. And water and basic public services for Iztapalapa? In my eyes, he is in the exact same position as Fox, he did some good stuff, but is simply just not enough.

AMLO may have never opposed to private imvestment on paper. But then why the double speech? Why calling mexican entrepreneurs parasites? That in my book is called hypocrisy. Most entrepreneurs are middle class who risk everything to build a patrimony of their own. They pay taxes, they obey the law. AMLO just made it too hard for me to believe in him.
He might have promised a cabinet where women would take half of the positions. And yet the PRD is under the necessary percentage of women's participation in Congress in the upcomig Legislature. More hypocrisy.

Of course, I have read about FDR. He's, with Bill Clinton, the best american president of the 20th century. But comparing AMLO to FDR is like comparing apples with oranges. FDR has to be studied in his historical and geographical context. FDR's model was succesful in a specific time and in a specific situation of the world's largest economy. It is impossible to apply FDR's policies in a country like Mexico. AMLO's economic model seem to me as something a secundaria kid made for his economics class. It is too simplistic. He plans to raise the income of the general population but he doesn't say how. He plans to give jobs (not real, lasting jobs like we need) by building roads. He plans to cut taxes and get the money from the corruption. Really? That way we are going to grow 7% each year? I don't buy it.

My question is, which fraud are you talking about? The cibernetic fraud? The old fashioned fraud? The "hormiga" fraud? The everlasting fraud that has been going on since ancestral times? The fraud from the video of Salamanca that was proven to be a lie? AMLO blames the "fraud" on anything that moves. Please, they even cited the "La fea mas bella" soap opera as evidence of "fraud". I read the evidence the PRD shows, with an open mind, trying to place myself in their position and yet I can not see a fraud anywhere. Mistakes, yes. Artihmetical errors, yes, but not big enough to change the result or to challange the cleanliness of the election.

If you sense that my arguments may have some "virulencia" towards AMLO it is because I'm tired of this man's lies. I'm tired of him thinking that he needs to step over anything or anyone, including the law and his own supporters, to get what he wants. He might think that he is doing something good for the country but the reality is that he is doing much more harm than good.

Now, more than ever, I think that my decision of voting for Patricia Mercado was the right one.

Posted by: bunburina | August 24, 2006 05:47 PM

I remember (Do you all?) how, on the night of July 2, AMLO came on TV an announced that he had won because "our numbers" showed him up by 500,000 votes. I would dearly like to see this, because if he DID win by 500,000 votes, I will hold my nose and support him as the next president. Can any of the AMLO supporters here please tell me where I might find "our numbers", and who provided them???

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 05:52 PM

Bunburina,

Check out the Informe by Alianza Civica and their latest press release.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 05:54 PM

Bunburina, the best american president of the 20th century was Reagan, who defeated the Soviet Union. The second best was Truman. The third best was the other Roosevelt, TR. The worst was Woodrow Wilson who got America into the first world war, and was responsible for prohibition and a general destruction of civil liberties. LB Johnson was second worse, one word, Vietnam.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 05:56 PM

Bunburina,

Does it matter the kind of fraud? Yes there were many kinds of it. And it all started, as you may well be aware of this, when Fox betrayed his own promise to uphold the Constitution and intervened in the electoral process compromising its fairness and equity, something we all deserve.

I don't agree with your evaluation of AMLO as a major. My educated guess is that many capitalinos were pretty satisfied with what he acomplished and the results favorable to Ebrard confirm this. You want more? That's fine, it's always good to ask for more, to demand it. But can you in earnest say that Calderon and the right would be much better at governing a country with deep social and economic divisions? Nope. No way. AMLO is a much more competent politician than Fox or Calderon.

By the way, Covarrubias y Asociados is AMLO's pollster and who gave the 500 000 votes number on election night.

The issue here is that Calderon refused a full recount which is legal and contemplated by the law. He refused it and continued the negative campaign because he knows he lost the election and he does not want irregularities to be exposed and hurt his and his party's chances to be in power.


Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 05:56 PM

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 06:06 PM

Chiapaneco, Calderon CANNOT refuse a full recount, nor can he order one. Period. Candidates do not order recounts, only the TEPJF can do this. You seem so worried about legalistics, how did you forget this.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 06:08 PM

Jerry B,
For your eyes only, from Cronica:

El PRD tiene una nueva oferta política para "solucionar" el conflicto poselectoral que generó su candidato al no admitir la derrota. Dice que la salida está en anular siete mil casillas y que con eso se le da la vuelta a la elección. O sea, anulen las casillas en que ganó Felipe para que el ganador sea López Obrador. Chido.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 06:08 PM

Rodolfo, why are you reading Cronica. Don't you know AMLO has prohibited it? You must be prepared to be "reeducated" if AMLO becomes president.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 06:14 PM

What's the matter? Can't speak French? Using google translator to make a cartoon out of this? very stubborn...

If you are interested you can check out the translation to Spanish of the Le Monde interview in the blogs they surely have it by now.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 06:16 PM

Cronica readers? mmm... nothing to say there... that's just plain sad.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 06:21 PM

Don't worry, Chiapaneco, if AMLO wins, expect hordes of Atenco types to "tomar" Cronica, Reforma, and any other paper that fails to toe the party line. Then, they can make all the bad news just go away.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 06:21 PM

Jerry B,

If they take Cronica there will only be bad news, all the time forever. Pol Pot times, we NEED this Savior. So he says.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 06:32 PM

Againg Chiapaneco, your direct link still doesn't work. If you want us to take a look link to the post in blog.

AMLO now wants to be named president elect by his zealots, this is the first time when I've truly felt that this is going to end badly, very, very badly. Even if 95% of his supporters step away at the last second, it's still going to end badly

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 24, 2006 06:34 PM

This is an interesting post but I have one concern. El Universal columnist Fred Rosen comments "Will a less-than-legitimate Calderón presidential term be marked by an on-going disruption of civic and economic activity?" This is not a question of legitimacy but mandate. See my comment at Rambles.

Posted by: DrTax Sacto | August 24, 2006 06:37 PM

AMLO is citing article 39 to validate his coup attempt; what he fails to mention is that the next two articles define how changes in government can be brought about. Sorry, it ain't in the street or in a meeting in the zócalo.

Speaking of the Zócalo, is it a different country now? You need a special ID to get in, and not from the federal govt. Now you can't be in possession of contraband newspapers or be caught watching banned TV programs or listening to banned radio programs. Who says AMLO doesn't hang out with Fidelito?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 06:41 PM

K. Vronna no lawyer. Otherwise would not make such remark. Sorry Article 39 remains valid. You don't like it? Lobby your congressman or congresswoman to eliminate it. Unfortunately the PAN does not have a majority and it is FAR from a qualified majority to change the Constitution. Sorry.

Once again my theory is confirmed. Some people try to pose as PASCistas so readers believe Calderon's wet dream of a broad coalition supporting his fraudulent imposition. PASCistas would not engage in the kind of hate speech and agressive negative campaigning posers in this blog use to discredit Lopez Obrador. Very lame.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 06:54 PM

Never said art. 39 was invalid; if you reread carefully, I said the next two articles define how to bring about a change. I have no problem with art. 39 myself. I have no problem with a full recount, either, IF the TEPJF orders one.

Who's going to represent me at the National Democratic Convention? Do I get to elect my rep? Does he/she know the problems of where I live? Who are the other candidates? Will there be a recount?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 07:09 PM

maya0,
Remember your "My Sharona" comment? Read this:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/370839.html

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 07:30 PM

"But can you in earnest say that Calderon and the right would be much better at governing a country with deep social and economic divisions? Nope. No way. AMLO is a much more competent politician than Fox or Calderon."

Chiapaneco, I have never said that Calderón is the right man to rule our country. I have never defended him or the PAN. Actually, I think both PAN and PRD did the same cheap tricks in this election. But to say that AMLO is a beter politician? Probably, he is a better politician, meant in the worst sense of the word as an opportunist. But a true statesman? Never. A true statesman would be Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas.

Jerry B, you konw I 90% agree with your posts but today you really made me jump in my seat. The end of the Soviet Union is responsibility of one man alone and that is Mikhail Gorbachev, not Reagan. Reagan on the other hand left the country with a huge inner deficit. Truman? He was a bit like George W., on the dumb side. Besides, he made one of the worst humanitarian mistakes ever made by droping the a-bomb on Japan when they were already about to surrender. Teddy Roosevelt was ok but not great in my eyes. And Woodrow Wilson is a remarkable thinker, ahead of his time, a true statesman. It is such a shame that the average american ignore what great man and president he was. LB Johnson is THE worst one along the poor Mr. Carter, who simply had no clue.

Posted by: bunburina | August 24, 2006 07:39 PM

I, emptyboxes, based on article 39 of Mexican Constitution, declare myself president.

Where do I sign?

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 07:47 PM

I like article 44

Article 44. The Federal District shall embrace its present territory, and in the event of the removal of the federal branches to some other place, it shall be erected into the State of Valle de México, with such boundaries and area as the General Congress shall assign to it.


Maybe it is time to move the capital to Monterrey, or some other civilized place.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 07:47 PM

Yeah, and then we will get plantones here too and the Atencos will also stop by two or three times a year swinging their machetes, and the Panchos Villas will also settle here, and labor unions and barzonistas.

Let's just leave things the way they are, I think we are doing all right.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 07:53 PM

Bunburina, Gorbachev would not have had to dismantle the Soviet Union if trying to keep pace with Reagan's arms buildup had not bankrupted it. Truman integrated the US armed forces, something Roosevelt utterly failed to do, under his watch the first real civil rights laws were passed, and, having studied a little on the Rape of Nanking, and general Japanese behavior during the war, I think they are lucky the US ran out of bombs after two. (If you want to be really bloodthirsty, see what Australia wanted to do to Japan after the war...) As to humanitarian mistakes, the firebomb raid over Tokyo in March of '45 (when Roosevelt was still president) may have caused 150,000 civilians to be burned alive. Again, considering Japanese atrocities, too bad. But, even the atom bombs didn't kill that many. Truman was an innately decent person who wanted no part of being vice president because he knew that Roosevelt was going to die.
As to Wilson, indeed he was an intellectual. You know my opinions on that breed.... Among other things, he is the last US president to actively invade Mexico, he fell, hook line and sinker for UK propaganda and got the US into WWI when it in no way affected the US, under his watch alcohol was prohibited, which is a crime against all that is holy, and his attorney general, Palmer (I think that is his name) made John Ashcroft seem quite benign by comparison. During Wilson's presidency, it was a crime to criticize the US war effort, and thousands were imprisoned, including labor icon Eugene Debbs. No, Wilson was a disgrace.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 07:54 PM

Not a bad idea, move the capital. Remember Brasilia? Ecologically speaking, this would be a magnificent move.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 07:55 PM

Ah, but Emptyboxes, at least your police forces will do something about it.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 07:56 PM

I, Jerry B, based on article 39 declare myself forthwith to be the recipient of a lifetime pension of one thousand million pesos a month. Who do I send the direct deposit information to?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 07:58 PM

I think AMLO is disqualified to be president. See article 82

Article 82. In order to be President it is required:
IV Not to possess ecclesiastic status nor be a minister of any cult.

Since he has formed a cult of personality around himself, he is a "minister of any cult", and cannot be president.

Below are other articles that pertain to AMLO:
Article 7. Freedom of writing and publishing writings on any subject is inviolable. No law or authority may establish censorship. (I guess this does not apply if you try to read Reforma in the Zocalo.)
Article 11. Everyone has the right to enter and leave the Republic, to travel through its territory and to change his residence without necessity of a letter of security, passport, safe-conduct or any other similar requirement. (Unless you want to enter the Zocalo without permision...)


Posted by: Jerry B | August 24, 2006 08:10 PM

Best/Worse US Presidents? That all depends on the yardstick. If you don't like an overweening centralized government managing all aspects of your life, your choices for worst presidents would have to be Lincoln, FDR, LBJ. If you don't like liars: Nixon and Clinton. If you don't like the US meddling in the affairs of others, you have many choices, but the standouts might be Polk, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, and every president since, with the possible exception of "Poor Dull Jerry" and Carter.

Posted by: Furnifold | August 24, 2006 08:17 PM

Jerry:
Yes. I guess because we wouldn't have Encinas as City Mayor. We have Maderito and as crazy as he is he would probably take AMLO away and demand TRIFE to get him elected instead.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 08:19 PM

If we allow him to be president of el Zocalo and give him two rooms in palacio nacional and once a day use of the balcony bell and a pulpit for his lame speeches, will this madness stop?
No, it won't which is what we really want.

We'll all have to have our passports ready to enter the zocalo republic, take a lot of photos, hear Pol Potty-ish speeches and then leave this proyect of nation happy and relieved the proyectistas are well and projectified.
Marcos got his Chiapas cerrito, why not give this born-to-run purifier his little haven. We will learn to like him even if he considers us zocalo outsiders spurious peoples.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 24, 2006 08:25 PM

Stupid Chirac has to come on National TV in his country to announce the french are sending three private soldiers in a 45 year old tank to patrol south Lebanon.

The French...

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 08:27 PM

Sorry about my last post. Got the wrong blog.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 08:28 PM

"Nuevo grupo plural urge al diálogo: ofrece mediar"

http://www.nuevoexcelsior.com.mx/Excelsior/macros/GenericNewsWithPhoto.jsp?contentid=12710&version=1

So now we have another silly organization formed by a bunch of imbeciles begininig with Sergio Aguayo, to ask for a dialogue, a negotiation.

What dialogue?
What negotiation?
Do they want to negotiate the results of the election?
Who the hell are they?

Why is it that we have to put up with imbecile and hypocrite callings for dialogue? Who the hell wants dialogue?
Why a call for dialogue to PAN? They have been calling for a dialogue all the time, haven't these imbeciles listened? Don't they read the news everyday?
And yet they ignore all the patience and calm shown by Felipe Calderon while the punk, AMLO, has been insulting him every single day.
What they ought to be calling is an ambulance to get that lunatic who is declaring himself president and calling for a revolution at the zocalo to a mental hospital.

All we want in this country is to respect the LAW.

And this group of cocaine imbeciles should begin by demanding AMLO to stop his stupid protest and invasion of public spaces and roads and to accept the damn results of the TRIFE. No questions asked. Period.

Why is Sergio Aguayo always involved in hypocrite movements that pretend to be fair and non-partisan but end up supporting one side.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 09:04 PM

It is a matter of time where Felipe Calderon would be finally announced as our next President of Mexico.
If people like Maya and Chiapaneco really believe that most mexican people would allow AMLO to elect himself as a President, they are also in real need of a psychiatric doctor.
We the Mexican people already voted and Calderon had more votes, so HE won the presidency!!!
An while Calderon is already at work, creating plans to fight poverty, as
to increase jobs,planning better health services, and more housing opportunities,

AMLO!!! is planning how to obtain more money to bring more people to attend his conferences at the Zocalo Plaza and,
to top it up he is coercing his followers on what to read, what to do, what to watch on TV etc...!!!
What a good example of real democracy!!!
HOw more cynical can AMLO be??
Maybe, CHIAPANECO AND MAYA if you really believe in AMLO'S ideas,
you should then stop from commenting in this blog as AMLO
may not like it!!!!
Jerry is right when he mentions that freedom of writting and publishing writtings on any subject is inviolable!!!
Or Chiapaneco and Maya you only believe in what you want to believe???

Posted by: Kukiss | August 24, 2006 09:20 PM

chiapaneco: I followed the link the the Le Monde interview of AMLO.
But you see I don't read french.
And I don't really give a damn.

But the sad thing is that not even Le Monde will endorse AMLO's allegations of Fraud. They are very careful in the interview not to directly state there was a fraud. All the time quoting "fraud" according to PRD or AMLO.

And this is the real sad thing about AMLO and his quest.

The only newspapers that have endorsed the idea of fraud are the usual gang of leftist radicals at La Jornada and Proceso. New York Times, Le Monde, Guardian Unlimited, BBC, they have not endorsed the "fraud" as they always refer to it in "quotes".

Quotes is all AMLO has left. Quotes of his allegations. "fraud" does not mean anything.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 09:21 PM

I don't agree about Cardenas statesmanship credentials. I do agree with a lot of what Mercado stands for, I did not know she was a Cardenista but that could explain a lot.

I think Cardenas should have followed Heberto Castillo and bow out gracefully while remaining a major player in the PRD and contributing to AMLO's campaign. He has been a major contributor to democratization in Mexico but it was pretty clear he could not be candidate for a fourth time when the PRD had someone with pretty good chances of winning. His behavior, taking a hand me down from the Fox administration is not commendable but sad.


Following Alianza Civica's press release in which they inform of irregularities evinced in the partial recount that support the idea of a full recount comes this interview for Democracy Now with Mark
co-director at the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, DC.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/24/1425237


AMY GOODMAN: The Washington-based Center for Economic and Policy Research recently conducted an analysis of Mexico's recounted ballots that raises questions about the lack of transparency in the recount. We're joined now by the group's co-director Mark Weisbrot. We welcome you to Democracy Now!

MARK WEISBROT: Thank you. It's good to be here.

AMY GOODMAN: What did you find?

MARK WEISBROT: Well, we looked at the first recount, which they didn't really release the results very well of that either, and that was only 2.2% that they recounted. But they've since recounted 9%, and they won't tell us what the results of those are. And that's, I think, a major violation of basic transparency.

But also we do know certain things. I mean, we've analyzed the data. For example, the Lopez Obrador campaign has claimed that in the majority, the vast majority of the ballot boxes, the ballots were not really kept track of. So each ballot box gets a certain amount of ballots. And then, the total votes plus the leftover blanks are supposed to add up to the ballots that you got at the beginning of the election. And that didn't add up for the majority of the ballot boxes. So right there, and we verified that by just analyzing the data that's available. And so, that's true, and that, by itself -- and that's why it's so strange for the President of the country to say that it's extremist or to even declare that there's a winner, when you have -- more than half of the ballot boxes don't add up. And that by itself is enough of a reason to have a full recount, even aside from all the other irregularities, and there's quite a few.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And this issue of the recount that was done, of this 9% of the ballots, it's been now, what, a couple of weeks since they completed that recount? And the political parties had observers there, so they all have their versions of what happened there. But there's no official announcement yet of these results?

MARK WEISBROT: No. And I think, again, that's deliberate, because right now we have the two versions. If you take Lopez Obrador's version, which I think is probably true, they said that Calderon lost 13,000 votes, which is about 1% of his total, and Lopez Obrador didn't lose any. So if you look at the media reports, they say 5,000 to 7,000. But either way, that's a lot, and it's clearly going only one way. In other words, the recount showed that only one side had votes that were thrown out in the partial recount. Again, another very big reason to do a full recount and another reason, I think, why they're not releasing the results, because if everybody got to see the results of this partial recount, they might be forced -- they might have public pressure to do a full recount.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And these massive demonstrations that have been occurring now in Mexico City for weeks, they have gotten very little coverage here in the United States. I'm thinking back to when the massive protests in the Ukraine and some of the other Russian republics over allegations of election fraud. But there hasn't been much coverage here in the U.S. press of these protests right with our southern neighbor.

MARK WEISBROT: No. Not very much. And especially the allegations, like the one I just said before. That's not even allegation. That's a verifiable fact, that you have the majority of ballot boxes where the votes don't add up, the ballots aren't kept track of. So that hasn't -- the media hasn't made an issue out of that. And they haven't made any issue out of the fact that the tribunal is withholding the results. And I'm actually worried that they're going to not even wait until the August 31 deadline. They're going to announce the result before the public gets to see what happened in the two recounts that they already did.

AMY GOODMAN: What does this mean for the future of Mexico?

MARK WEISBROT: Well, I think it's huge. I mean, the issues in this election are very big. Mexico has had a terrible economic failure over the last 25 years. The total economic growth has been about 17% per capita over a 25-year period, as opposed to 99% from 1960 to 1980. And it's been a terrible failure, a terrible economic failure.

AMY GOODMAN: We have ten seconds, unfortunately.

MARK WEISBROT: So this is really -- there's two competing candidates with two competing visions of economic policy and what they're going do for poor people in this country.

AMY GOODMAN: And do you think Lopez Obrador will ever concede? Do you think he could be declared the victor?

MARK WEISBROT: It's possible. It depends again on if there's public pressure to do a full recount or to nullify the results of the election. I don't think they would have even gotten the partial recount if he hadn't brought over a million people into the streets.

AMY GOODMAN: Mark Weisbrot, I want to thank you for being with us, of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 09:33 PM

Interesting what happens to Ahumada everytime he wants to speak out to the press.

http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?id_nota=257744

The DF mafia is working to silence Ahumada.
They are threatening the Ahumada family so that they will shut up.

I guess this can only mean that some more important people of the PRD are very involved in the corruption.

Maybe Marcelo Ebrard is also in some new videos.

I take it from what I see that:

1. DF holds Ahumada in prison and threatens him to lose his life if new videos involving more PRD officials are shown to the press.

2. The Ahumadas have indeed more videos, and they involve some important fellows. They are holding these videos to protect Ahumada from getting killed.

3. It's gridlock. And a the Federal Government holds the key to fix the whole thing. Marcelo Ebrard will want to choose his Procurador and Head of Police, but Felipe Calderon will have to agree to that. There will be intense negotiations there. Felipe Calderon can choose one Procurador himself who could get Ahumada out and reveal the whole bunch of videos.

That will probably explain why the rage of the protests when Felipe won and the terrible attack on the IFE and the legitimacy of the presidential elections. But not the legislative elections.

There are probably more videos. More videos from Cuba and more from Ahumada.

Felipe will have some fun.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 09:34 PM

By the way EMPTYBOXES< your comment regarding how AMLO and his cult followers should be forced to accept the TRIFE decision no matter what!!!
The road kidnappings should put to a stop
immediately,
Calderon is only waiting to be elected,
It is a matter of time,
Because believe even my grandparents get angry at the fact that the camps are still there,
I dont live in Mexico City, I should care
But as a Mexican and human being,
I really sympathize with the people of Mexico City,
NOt like Chiapaneco and Maya!!!
Pero como dice mi abuelo,
En mis tiempos ya les hubieran puesto
una chin.... a todos esos imbeciles que estan robanndole la libertad de transito a los demas...
Y creanme que mis abuelos son gente pobre y humilde, pero ya estan hartos de oir hablar del loco del AMLO y de su clan,
que por cierto esa LOCA DE Claudia Schmidt
ya no te acuerdas Chiapaneco que
es la esposa del IMAZ el mismo que se jugaba en Las Vegas los miles y miles de dolares del pueblo del DF???
Que poca memoria tiene la gente!!!
QUe lastima!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 24, 2006 09:35 PM

Nice picture of Castro & Alarcon in the Democracy Now! website link Chiapaneco posted. The interview is not worth much for democracy, though. Kinda like a name such as Mohammed Goldstein, something's wrong with the picture.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 09:49 PM

I am surprised La Cronica de Hoy has to be given away for free and that Brozo calls them chayoteros who invent notes and spread lies. I believe the negative campaign might have constructed a string of loyal followers that could take La Cronica de Hoy to new heights. They should be thankful to Calderon and Antonio Sola for that.

Certainly no Pulitzer's in the horizon but Salinas could end his financing of this trash with the money he stole as President. I think what follows is that they should restrict the trash to those who pay for it. I bet they could get a profit in that way.

There are plenty of people willing to take their lies as the whole truth so they don't even need to become accountable. I see a bright future for La Cronica with the extreme right obsessed with Lopez Obrador.

Funny, Arreola in a recent editorial pointed out at google trends and how the people that googled AMLO the most lived in San Pedro Garza Garcia Nuevo Leon, PAN territory. These people are sick and hungry for AMLO bashing and La Cronica de Hoy could well make a few bucks out of them.

Galleta... funny.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 24, 2006 09:57 PM

emptyboxes,

How dare you entice us with verbötten newspapers, want us to end up in a DF jail?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 10:04 PM

By whatever you hold sacred in this world, keep the capital away from us, we're just fine, thank you.

Now, again, people with little to no knowledge of the law commenting on legal aspects: the reason the recount results have not been made public is that those results are an intermediate ruling and thus part of ongoing legal precedings. They will be made public once the final ruling is issued. Jeez Louise. Same person then goes on to say that "half the ballot boxes don't add up". That is just plain freaking stupid, the Coalicion didn't submit paperwork on even a frakking third of the ballot boxes because it couldn't find a shred of evidence for the rest. Where the hell does this guy get his facts? I stopped reading right then and there.

I tell you, this is going to end up very, very badly, AMLO is going to get people killed, I did not believe it would go that far, but this National Democratic Convention naming him president elect is in effect an attack on the very fabric of our country and that is going to end up with dead people. Crap. I would give up the fight this instant if it didn't mean giving in to a terrorist. Crap, crap, crap, crap.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 24, 2006 10:41 PM

I like you chiapaneco.
You kind of remind me of a certain Pasilla fellow. He passed away two or three blogs away just when we were having the most fun with him.

Brozo, yes I am so sorry for him. He was all sorry that Sunday July 2, had to get out of the studio to cry a bit by himself. Got his consolation from his young boyfriend later on that night.
He is all left. Biased as he could only be. Not so openly as Lorenzo Meyer. Kind of subtle.
Arreola, nice friend you got there. We know him here in Monterrey, he was sold out to the PRI and completely destroyed El Diario de Monterrey, they actually had to take the newspaper out of the market, and now it is Milenio, but they change the director. Gave Arreola the chance to continue writing so he would have a livelyhood.

Kukiss: I certaily have no doubt Felipe will take power and we will soon after forget about this lunatic.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 24, 2006 11:02 PM

Can anyone check the total votes in a section compared to the single polling stations within a certain section? I remember that in one of the stations they got some of the leftover ballots stuck in the "contigua" boxes, meaning that on one station there were too many ballots and on the other there were missing ballots. Since these "contiguas" are right next to each other this could be a big factor in the discrepancies.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 24, 2006 11:14 PM

Yes K. Vronna, I described this situation in that looooooong post of mine, it there are subdivisions in the stations, 2, 3, 4 or whatever (I've seen as many as 6) you will get ballots from one in the other. Its amazing that it happens but it does.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 12:04 AM

Ariel,
Now I remember! And I think I got on your case a little for the length of that post. Excuse me, let me explain. Where I live we only have slow, microband dial-up (country living doesn't include every nicety). This means the longer the posts the bigger the file to download when refreshing and it takes forever. There's also a little problem we have with telmex; our calls get cut after 10 min or so and thus our service for local calls exceed the 100 free calls really quick. Oops! I'll be accused of anti-AMLO bias now, with that telmex slip.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 12:24 AM

Yesterday Lopez Obrador commented on the lack of willingness of the media to cover irregularities in the electoral process and give space to what the Coalicion has to say. No derecho de replica in Mexico's monopolic television. Soon all the prensa amarillista was all over the speech exagerating and creating needless drama.

Literaly what he said was "we respect the freedom of the press but we consider our obligation to demand to the media to be open. It is not possible they are only bashing us. It is not possible that they keep on reporting with the aim to damage our cause. It is not possible that they remain silent about issues that are really important like what happened on July 2, the fraudulent elections and the intention to impose an ilegitimate president."

He did not ask for anybody to read or not to read newspapers. That was Vicente Fox as he once famously asked a lady not to read the newspapers. What Lopez Obrador did was to demand from the media to be open, to cover both sides and not participate in "la cargada" as it used to not so many years ago. The media has freedom but the public also has the right to be informed. They media should act responsibly towards the public and provide information with objectivity and impartiality. I think the European press is giving an example on this.

Ciro Gomez, currently lobbying to get Lopez Doriga's position as anchor in televisa, was not happy when his old pal and frequent guest at radio show called to give him a piece of his mind. "No puedes tapar el sol con un dedo" . Though Ciro tried to shut him up in a very rude way or change the subject his former guest made it quite clear: the people have had enough of this manipulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VzktbWyAjE

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 01:01 AM

"que por cierto esa LOCA DE Claudia Schmidt
ya no te acuerdas Chiapaneco que
es la esposa del IMAZ el mismo que se jugaba en Las Vegas los miles y miles de dolares del pueblo del DF???
Que poca memoria tiene la gente!!!
QUe lastima!!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 24, 2006 09:35 PM "

I do feel sorry for Mexico when I read something like this. This is exactly why the media should act with responsibility and impartiality. Otherwise you have a bunch of histerical people spreading lies and nonsense.

The name is Claudia Sheinbaum not Schmidt. The guy who was gambling in Las Vegas is Ponce, not Imaz. Ponce is now serving time in jail. The Panistas wanted to negotiate with him so he would spread lies about Lopez Obrador right before the election but they did not succeed.

What galleta should be asking herself is why Panistas who break the law always end up not serving time. That's right. Selective application of the law. Precisely what we want to end in this country with the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion. We want Estrada Cajigal, gober precioso, Bribiesca brothers and their mummy, Diego Fernandez et. all to answer for their criminal actions.

Galleta does not know that both Cesar Nava and Juan Camilo Muriño, Calderon's cronies are both involved in dubious activities which must be investigated.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 01:32 AM

chiapaneco,

Don't be a smart ass. If you understand french, could you translate this nonsense?

"[...] "Si le tribunal valide la fraude, nous ne reconnaîtrons pas un président sans légitimité. Nous avons déjà convoqué une convention nationale démocratique en vertu de l'article 39 de la Constitution qui stipule que le peuple a le droit inaliénable de changer la forme de son gouvernement." [...]"

"[...] Plus d'un million de délégués, venus de tout le Mexique, devraient se rassembler, le 16 septembre sur le Zocalo, pour participer à cette convention, une espèce d'assemblée constituante "qui pourra nommer un président légitime et une coordination de résistance populaire". Le Mexique pourrait se réveiller le 17 septembre avec deux présidents. "C'est une possibilité qui dépendra du vote des délégués à la convention", dit M. Lopez Obrador. [...]"

The short translation is this: the guy is a loony and should be locked away in a mental institution!

I guess he could also declare himself as Andy the Psycho, King of Macuspana, and claim he is the son of Princess Lea.

Posted by: spoiler | August 25, 2006 02:09 AM

Furnifold, you may actually be right about the best/worst US presidents. It definetely depends on where do you stand.

"Nice picture of Castro & Alarcon in the Democracy Now! website link Chiapaneco posted. The interview is not worth much for democracy, though. Kinda like a name such as Mohammed Goldstein, something's wrong with the picture."

K. Vronna, you always make me laugh. Mohammed Goldstein... that was hilarious!

About the article from Le Monde, two things stood out for me (I'm sorry for those who don't read french, I'm too lazy to translate):

"Nous ne sommes pas des politiciens traditionnels et nous n'allons pas négocier nos principes pour des emplois publics ou des prébendes. Négocier un accord avec un gouvernement sans légitimité serait légaliser la simulation démocratique et ce pays ne changerait jamais", affirme le candidat de la gauche.

Why is this phobia towards negotiation? Being able to negotiate and to reach agreements with your rivals is pretty much the essence of modern day democracy. We, as a country, need to get over the idea that negotiation is a synonym of weakness. On the contrary, being able to negotiate is a sign of reason and plurality. And true dialogue shuold never be conditioned. The whole idea of "we are only going to negotiate with PAN if they accept the vote by vote recount" is bs. Either you are willing to negotiate or not. Impositions on a dialogue never work.

And this is also interesting:

"Longtemps en tête des sondages, n'a-t-il pas fait preuve de triomphalisme, en refusant par exemple de participer au premier débat de la campagne?"

Even Le Monde hints that maybe AMLO is the only responsible one for losing the election. I don't think this is a pro-AMLO article. It isn't anti-AMLO either, it is pretty obvious. It seems to me to be a rather objective interview where they just let him express everything we have already heard a million times. Nothing really new.

Posted by: bunburina | August 25, 2006 02:44 AM

Ariel, I was predicting this was going to end badly a month ago. I hoped I was wrong. When the merde does hit the ventilateur, you can be assured that those doing the dieing are going to be some poor peasants from Tabasco or somewhere, and that AMLO, Ebrard, Camacho Solis, et al will be nowhere near the bloodshed. In fact, I think this is what they want, blood, so they can show the world that Fox is a bloodthirsty animal. Just as long as it is not their blood.

If Fox is smart, he will let the Zocalo stupidity continue until Sept 15. Then, at about 4AM on Sept 16, before AMLO's convention, the PFP will push through the place with gas, dogs, whatever, and clear it completely out, and wall it off. Then, we shall see where AMLO's million delegates are going to meet.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 04:10 AM

Bunburina, please translate this, into either Spanish or English:

"Longtemps en tête des sondages, n'a-t-il pas fait preuve de triomphalisme, en refusant par exemple de participer au premier débat de la campagne?"

Unfortunately the only French I know is how to say "I surrender" in German. But then, that is all one needs, no?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 04:11 AM

More on the French. On Ebay, there is a French army assualt rifle. cheap. It has never been fired and was only dropped once.

There is a new French battle tank. It has five reverse gears and one forward gear, which is for in case the enemy gets behind their lines and attacks from the rear.

Why are Paris boulevards lined with trees? Because the German army likes to march in the shade.

General Patton said "I would rather have a German army in front of me than a French army behind me."

Why should the US have expected the French to help liberate Iraq? In 1944, the French would not even help the Americans to liberate France.

Posted by: Jerry b | August 25, 2006 04:27 AM

I have a really bad case of insomnia, so I'll traduce for you my lovely friends what I posted in french:

- Nous ne sommes pas des politiciens traditionnels et nous n'allons pas négocier nos principes pour des emplois publics ou des prébendes. Négocier un accord avec un gouvernement sans légitimité serait légaliser la simulation démocratique et ce pays ne changerait jamais", affirme le candidat de la gauche. -

Reads as follows:

"We are not traditional politicians and we will not negotiate our principles for public employments or bribery. To negotiate an agreement with a government without legitimacy would be like legalizing this democratic simulation and therefore, this country will never change." affirms the leftist candidate.

The other part was:

- Longtemps en tête des sondages, n'a-t-il pas fait preuve de triomphalisme, en refusant par exemple de participer au premier débat de la campagne? -

And it reads:

Long time at top of the polls, wasn't it a display of triumphalism, for example, to refuse to participate in the first debate of the campaign?

Posted by: bunburina | August 25, 2006 05:34 AM

The sorry story of AMLO's mistakes is well documented and known by journalists from all over the world.

chiapanecos's assumption that right wing newspapers from around the world will report the PAN side of the story but that left wing newspapers will report the "truth" is naive.

Newspapers like Le Monde, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, are all very big institutions because the one thing they don't allow their journalists is to lie, and when they do, they get caught and fired. They may or may not give AMLO an interview but that is far from supporting his cause or his "fraud" allegations.

Newspapers like La Jornada will never grow to become institutions like Reforma or Milenio. Reforma is by far the most prestigious newspaper in Mexico, and it is so because it is non-partisan, their journalists are not analysts. Reforma also has many writers from all walks of society, Sarmiento, Denise Dresser, Lorenzo Meyer, Granados Chapa and Monsivais, and many more and diverse analysts or intellectuals participate with Reforma, but that does not make the newspaper right wing or left wings.

It is silly to think that they are sold out to a cause or a party. They are institutions that guarantee our free press.

Not so La Jornada, which edits, ommits and fabricates stories everyday in blind obedience of an ideological and dogmatical group of people. Theirs is the agenda of AMLO and Marcos and PRD. Theirs is the agenda of the radical communists and marxists.

Sad as it is but in 2006, there are still people out there who believe in such authoritatian ideologies.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 07:24 AM

I thought I share with you guys this interesting article:

Francisco Martín Moreno

Todavía existen millones a quienes se les puede adormecer con el arribo de la dictadura del proletariado, como si el drama de la Europa del Este hubiera pasado desapercibido.

fmartinmoreno@yahoo.com

La aceptación de una tesis que proponga la existencia de un mercado libre en la más amplia acepción del término, léase la tolerancia de un neolibertinaje económico del poder político en perjuicio de quienes se encuentran cautivos o excluidos de los esquemas de distribución del ingreso, así como la pretensión siempre miope de los creyentes en las bondades de un darwinismo social montaraz, un darwinismo mercantil ignorante de las diferencias, las capacidades y el talento concurrente entre los hombres, no puede sino conducir al enfrentamiento verbal, a la fractura del diálogo y, posteriormente, al derrumbe de las estructuras políticas y sociales que demostraron su inutilidad para mantener un puente por el que pudieran cruzar, sin retirarse el saludo, los integrantes de una comunidad civilizada.

Una sociedad, ya lo decía Revel, será más longeva mientras más problemas resuelva y más perecedera en tanto más se resista al cambio y a la evolución.

En países que avanzan dentro de una democracia embrionaria, amenazados por aberrantes desequilibrios económicos y sociales; en naciones escindidas por abismales diferencias educativas y alimentarias, petrificadas por los efectos de una religión opuesta perversamente a la generación de la riqueza; en sociedades donde la concepción misma del progreso está reñida con la evolución material y las diferencias en los mismos niveles socioeconómicos constituyen peligrosas bombas de tiempo que, de llegar a detonar, alejarían cualquier otra posibilidad de conquistar pacíficamente el bienestar, resulta temerario abandonar a toda suerte de indefensión a los desposeídos dentro de una economía de mercado desenfrenada, dominada por una concupiscencia disoluta e insaciable.

¿Paternalismo? México ha pagado un precio muy elevado por haber solapado durante décadas la incapacidad y la indolencia de buena parte de nuestra gente. De acuerdo, pero de ahí a ignorar nuestro propio drama social, a olvidarnos de las carencias de los nuestros sin idear nuevas alternativas de solución, hay un largo camino que cruza por pantanos pestilentes de los que debemos apartarnos antes de que nuestro olfato se acostumbre a los olores hediondos que despiden las aguas estancadas.

América Latina carece de una tradición democrática. Los oídos de las masas son sensibles al canto melifluo de las sirenas. Todavía existen millones a quienes se les puede adormecer con el arribo de la dictadura del proletariado, como si el drama de la Europa del Este hubiera pasado desapercibido. Así como entraron las masas de iletrados y depauperados armados con grandes garrotes al Palacio de Invierno de los zares a principios del siglo XX, igual les veríamos entrar ahora por la puerta grande de los palacios legislativos, para imponer su ley contra el neolibertinaje. Ignoran que las revoluciones, o sirven para concentrar aun más el poder o no sirven para nada. De ahí que la tentación de las masas desposeídas por hacerse del poder público como un instrumento de represalia y justicia sea cada día mayor. La tentación por destruir el mercado "libertino" les acercaría a la materialización de su sueño, que no haría sino proyectarlos a un nivel de postración del que ya nunca saldrían.

¿Dónde está la izquierda mexicana de vanguardia? ¿Qué tal una izquierda como la del PSOE español, la de Felipe González? ¿Por qué no aspirar a una izquierda inteligente, libre y productiva como la encabezada por Mitterrand? ¿O tal vez la de Lagos o la de Bachelet, ambos de Chile? ¿Quién desea una izquierda como la de Corea del Norte, la de Cuba o la de Venezuela?

El capitalismo de Estado adoptado militarmente por la URSS y sus satélites, para imponer la felicidad a sangre y fuego, resultó ser la mentira más grande del siglo XX. El marxismo-leninismo-estalinismo-brejnevismo, ¡uf..!, dejó huérfanos a millones de comunistas latinoamericanos, que observaron atónitos cómo se derrumbaba escandalosamente el Muro de Berlín, junto con la Cortina de Hierro.

Los chinos han rescatado de la miseria a 250 millones de sus nacionales, en tan sólo 10 años, gracias a la adopción de políticas empresariales de corte liberal, apartándose del capitalismo de Estado, cuyas consecuencias advirtieron en la disolución política y social de su vecino euroasiático.

El perredismo de LO obviamente no es de izquierda, es populismo de extrema izquierda, que colinda con el fascismo de ultraderecha, en un espectro político esférico. Los mexicanos no podemos permitir que acceda a la Jefatura de Gobierno, ni ahora ni nunca, un líder que venga a dirigir al país con fórmulas económicas sacadas del bote de la basura y que ya demostraron sobradamente su ineficacia.

¡Queremos una izquierda mexicana que genere fuentes de riqueza por doquier y no las extinga para incrementar el malestar social! Una izquierda, inevitable, que rescate a los marginados y no los hunda aún más. Bienvenida, una izquierda progresista.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 07:31 AM

"When the merde does hit the ventilateur" and other french jabs.

Thanks Jerry, I really needed the laugh. I realize you predicted that a long time ago, I just didn't think it was.

Can't say I agree with the general impression that all French do is surrender but I will say that my brother in law is French, he and my sister moved back to France about 3 years ago and this year they moved back. They couldn't stand the French. I kid you not.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 10:48 AM

Chiapaneca, Aug25 1:01 AM

You send us to a reeducated man of the people. Here's and EDUCATED Clown of a man.

Once you catch lopismo, it's not a vocation, it's a disease called castrismo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5AaNuoK0NI&search=ahumada

I love these CIDE-Colegio de Mexico-Flat Earth Society types. Camacho loves your coffe. What do you spike it with, 'cause it rocks!!!

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 11:22 AM

Top 10 reasons why Calderon is the best choice for Mexico:

1. First and foremost, Calderon will make sure that Mexico continues the trend set out by Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De la Madrid, Salinas and Fox. What trend is that? The trend of a long list of accomplishments occurred in the last 30 yrs. of PRI-PAN government.

2. Calderon will make sure that 50% of Mexicans remain with an income of less than $1 dollar a day.

3. Calderon will make sure that the exodus of millions of unemployed Mexicans continue going to the USA.

4. Calderon will make sure that the lack of gains in science and technology occurred during the Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De La Madrid, Salinas and Fox continue.

5. Calderon will make sure that Mexico remains a 3rd world country.

6. Calderon will make sure that none of the participants of the bank frauds committed every sexenio are brought to justice.

7. Calderon will make sure that the Durazos, Hank Gonzalez and Salinas are able to steal with absolute impunity.

8. Calderon will make sure that the income and social disparities between the Mexican north and south increase.

9. Calderon will make sure that millions of young Mexicans have limited access to quality education.

10. There has been absolutely no improvement in the living conditions in Mexico for the past 30 yrs. But thank God we have Calderon to maintain the status quo.

God bless you.

Posted by: Top 10!!! | August 25, 2006 11:54 AM

Ariel, one of my cousins spent a few years backpacking around Europe, she cannot stand the French, although she says the Belgians are even worse.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 12:04 PM

Top10!!! = 0 IQ

Posted by: spoiler | August 25, 2006 12:05 PM

Lefties logic class:

If ad then it's a fraud!

Posted by: spoiler | August 25, 2006 12:10 PM

Correction, it was supposed to read as follows:

If a is greater than b, and b is greater than d, then it's fraud!

Posted by: spoiler | August 25, 2006 12:14 PM

It's funny that emptyboxes mention how La Jornada "fabricates" stories.

How about that MIRACLE story about those "NAUGRAGOS" who survived for 9 months? that we can watch every single day on Mexican trash news.
You look at these 3 healthy fellows and it's hard to make that story true.

Obviously the TV plays an important role to come up with distractions for stupid people who would rather listen to bullpoop than listen and watch to all the 'minor' irregularities on that partial recount.

Chances are when they finally arrived in Mexico City that would be the most important story of the year, in the meantime one note on the side will be TRIFE's decision to confirm FECAL as elected President.

Mexico wil have another 6 years of Foxi-Fecalandia... the happy place for all yunquistas

Posted by: Anti-Yunque | August 25, 2006 12:25 PM

rodolfo:
On Aristegui's coverage of the video. It is really insulting how first she presents the video and then she has a leftist pseudo-intellectual, with serious conflicts with the PAN and PRI himself (Crespo pretended to become the IFE president but the only party supporting him was PRD), it only shows a biased coverage intention from Aristegui. It could have been so easy to interview Crespo and another intellectual with a different perspective like Sarmiento or Silva Herzog for example.

But what can you expect from Aristegui? She got all sold out to the PRD and AMLO thinking AMLO was going to be the next president and dreaming herself interviewing him in Palacio Nacional.

Posted by: emptyboxes | August 25, 2006 12:32 PM

Jerry b.

Whats the difference between Toast and the French.

You can make soldiers out of Toast.

Why is Frances elite regiment the French "Foreign" Legion?

Frances last naval victory? Sinking the un-armed Greenpeace ship "Rainbow Warrior" in a New Zealand harbour!

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 12:34 PM

Peter N, I remember the Rainbow Warrior. The French get very sanctimonious about how "pure" they are, yet always forget to mention the Rainbow Warrior. The really sad thing is they used the threat of losing EU preferences to force the NZ government to "allow" the DSGE operatives who blew it up to serve out their sentences in a French Prison, from which they were paroled in a matter of months.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 12:38 PM

Vicente Fox violated at least three articles of the Constitution when he declared Calderon as winner. He did his grey candidate no favor by further intervening into the process.

Articles of the Constitution violated by Fox: 41, 49, 99. Fox's foot in mouth can be also used by Lopez Obrador's coalition to prove his never-ending intervention into the process.

Note from La Jornada:
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/08/25/006n1pol.php

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 12:40 PM

Chiapaneco, go away, you lost.... Why aren't you worried about irregularities in the Chiapas governors race?

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 12:53 PM

Chiapaneco,

Since you are obviously a better constituitional lawyer than the ones that the President of this country has to call on for advice, could you help me out with this question.

I´m a Brit driving my truck to a small town on July 2nd this year. On the way a bunch of men and women ask for a lift to the same town, otherwise they won´t get to cast their votes in time. So I give them a lift. Have I interfered in the election process of this country? Or have I only interfered if they didn´t vote for AMLO?

Just a hypothetical question.

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 12:55 PM

Anti-Yunque, welcome to the blog of Calderon's zombies and Cronica de hoy loyal readers. Now poor Aristegui is also on their black list. Nevermind she is the only anchor with some credibility in Mexico.

Sergio Aguayo is also under attack and so is Alianza Civica, their crime? Supporting a full recount that would give certainty to all Mexicans regarding results. These antidemocrats do not want any more scrutiny, they only accept Jose Ignacio Salafranca's (Aznar's pal at the EU mission) word and we all know whose interests that man responds to. Sorry folks, observers have seen gross irregularities in the partial recount so no more of that "observers saw nothing" jargon and yes, some media have lied about this, not even doing their research regarding what observers are currently informing and not presenting what the Coalition for the Good of All has informed about the partial recount.

Yes bunburina, I was praising the European press for giving coverage to both sides and not lending itself to cartoonish portrayals of reality which show an unconcealed racism towards what's going on in Mexico. I think Le Monde was objective with the interview and with the article that followed the interview. I think it sets an example to other newspapers.

I am talking about the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times and the Wall Street Journal (where Carlos Salinas was a contributing editorialist for a while) which have taken line by line the negative campaign financed by the PAN and their crony capitalist friends.

No personal insults on this blog, you can save those to address Sanborn's workers as that crazy woman who went into hysterics because she could not find toilett paper and she blamed the "perredistas". I guess some people have lost it and are just uncapable of reasoning or putting things in context. I don't see how they will react when it is confirmed AMLO won the most votes in this election. What would be stronger? The hate they have bred because of Calderon's irresponsible negative campaign? or their commitment to democracy and to accepting as president the man who won the most votes fair and square? As I see the actions of Fox and golpista crony capitalist I have my doubts.

I do read and speak French. Now they are also attacking the French? I was kind of reminded of the psycho babble against Kerry and Theresa Heinz. So predictable and so reflective of their undefendable positions which have to be dressed up in smear campaigns and hate attacks to convince some voters.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 12:58 PM

Chiapaneco:
Below are the aforementioned articles. Please explain for us non intelectual types how Fox's exercise of his Article 7 freedom of speech rights violates them.

Article 41. The people exercise their sovereignty through the powers of the Union in those cases within its jurisdiction, and through those of the States, in all that relates to their internal affairs, under the terms established by the present Federal Constitution and the individual constitutions of the States' respectively, which latter shall in no event contravene the stipulations of the Federal Pact.

Article 49.(19) The supreme power of the Federation is divided, for its exercise, into legislative, executive, and judicial branches.

Two or more of these powers shall never be united in one single person or corporation, nor shall the legislative power be vested in one individual except in the case of extraordinary powers granted to the Executive, in accordance with the provisions of Article 29.


Article 99. Resignations of ministers of the Supreme Court of Justice may be submitted only for serious reasons; they shall be submitted to the Executive, and if he accepts them they shall be sent to the Senate for approval, or if adjourned to the Permanent Committee.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 01:01 PM

We keep hearing that "hatred" is being engendered. By who? In my book, violence, the threat of violence, and the dehumanizing of someone or a group is hatred. If you walk through Monterrey with a "voto por voto" shirt on, for example, will anything happen to you? No. If you drive through Tijuana with an AMLO sticker on your car, will anything happen to it? No. If a newspaper in Tijuana publishes violent attacks on the PAN (as the CTM owned El Mexicano does) will the local PANista leadership prohibit you or me from reading it? No. If an AMLO supporter walks past PAN offices in Guadalajara, will he be subject to anything more than good natured ribbing? No.

Now, revert all this. Imagine a PANista t shirt in the Zocalo. A car with a Calderon sticker driving down Reforma, oops, can't drive down Reforma. A vocero for Reforma trying to sell his papers outside of a campamento. In all of these cases there would be a real threat of violence or intimidation from the PRD and its thug supporters. Yet no violence at all from the PAN.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 01:11 PM

Truly sorry don't have the time nor the will. You can check La Jornada. A recognized jurista explains it there (whom I am sure will probably end under attack by a smear campaign from the conservatives) So predictable.Save it. And stop trying to confuse public opinion with manipulation and half truths. It's OLD.

To the man who as a foreigner has not clarified if he contributed with money to the negative campaign or is a member of COPARMEX Chihuahua who sponsored the TV spots against Lopez Obrador illegaly.

Same answer as before: no intervention, no funding of campaigns, no voting, no aiding political campaigns. Clear enough? Don't worry. With PAN selective application of the law the CANF and other extreme right friends can still use their dollars to help loser Calderon just as they did with Amigos de Fox. They should only worry when Lopez Obrador is confirmed as winner because this is exactly what we want to end. We want progress in the sense the law is applied fairly and transparently to all. That will happen either now or with the citizen recount which, if they conclude the imposition, would force Calderon to flee the country.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 01:15 PM

"You can check La Jornada". Thanks. They are about as even handed as Gramna or Pravda, and would never ever lie.

Chiapaneco, there is a third option, which is secession. Why not take your paradise of a state, unite it with Oaxaca, Tabasco, Guerrero, the DF, and the rest of the south and go join Central America. You will get your precious AMLO, and the rest of us who live north of the Queretaro border can get on with the business of becoming a member of the 21st century.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 01:19 PM

No violence from the pacificos? PLEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASE check out what the pacificos did to the voto por voto art work in Mexico City. They went at night, like thugs to destroy it with knives. The PANistas and art are no friends.

Another example? a drunken pacifico from COPARMEX went into one of the camps at night and also ended up hurting people with his car. Stop the hypocrisy!

The peaceful resistance movement has hurted NO ONE. Yet the violence and hate of the PANistas surfaces every day. Read what Mandoki and Poniatowska have declared about the treaths they receive on the phone. Mandoki even gets antisemitism from these wacky Calderon supporters who organized a Nazi like bonfire to burn the movies of one of the best directors we have in this country.

No one would harm you in the Zocalo. Maybe you could learn a thing or two if you actually visited the place and stopped spreading Cronica de Hoy rumors you have not confirmed.

Stop spreading bs OK? You have done it enough throughout the campaigns. People are sick of it.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 01:28 PM

Lord Windsor,

I have a little granade coming your way. Do not divulge my churchillian source, I want people to think I'm so smart as to come up with this whopper.
Remember the "transparent" tete a tete you and I had well in my way to kicking one of the last recalcitrant Colegio de Mexico's Dr. pasilla?
Let's pretend I'm answering your grammatical say you what admonition with this miracle of conciseness:
"This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put."

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 01:33 PM

Actually, Chiapaneco, I think I´ve made it clear on several occasions.

You´re communist re-writing of history techniques have been shown to their full in this blog, between you and Maya, you start of with "I heard a lot of money was sent from chihuahua to the anti AMLO campaign", you go through "hope some inelligle foreigner wasn´t interferring", to calling me in breach of act 33, to maya threatening that although I may be safe in cyberspace, there going to get me here in Chihuahua, to your latest "hasn´t clarified". Maybe to commies if you repeat the lie enough it will become the truth, but for the rest of us, we follow the facts.

Is my wife banned from any of the above activities? Did she become to quote George Orwell an "non person" when she married me. Or do you get to choose depending on her politics?

And you still haven´t developed a sense of humour have you?

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 01:34 PM

Chiapaneco, you are really quite lame. A drunk wrecks his car, and that is the PAN's fault? Art (?) is vandalized. Who got hurt by that? How is that worse than pasting AMLO stickers over PAN stickers on cars, which happens much more often. As to so called death threats, prove it. And prove it was the PAN, not a PRD provocation. Antisemitism? Indeed some of us think Maya is a PAN troll, but really, she puts out far more anti-semitic crap than I have heard from the PAN.

As to me visiting the Zocalo? I do not live in the DF, thank goodness. And, to tell the truth, I find it hilarious that the same jackasses down there who voted for AMLO have to support his closing down of their principal avenues and public places. Enjoy!!!!

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 01:37 PM

Okay Chiapaneco, I made the mistake of mispelling the last name of Claudia and the big mistake WOW of changing Ponce to Imaz,
SO WHAT??? THE BOTTOM LINE IS....
That they are all the same corrupted government employees of Lopez Obrador!!!!
They all belong to the same corrupted clan!!!IF you are so good in defending them tell the audience here,
WHAT GOOD did they do when they worked for AMLO during the time he was a major???
What is it with people defending POOR AMLO and not explaining what good will he bring to the people of Mexico??
It is like defending a rat from being poisoned and not explaining what good will it come out from protecting it!!!

Posted by: Kukiss | August 25, 2006 01:50 PM

Chiapaneca,

Average daily postings have actually increased since this, your humble servant, started ranting on Aug. 14. You people hate man of the street experince-based comments. You are out to educate us on our evil blindness. Can it enter your mind that you are the evil ones shepherding the gullible to nowhere.

Ivory tower platitudes are BORING. Get this from a man of the street that will not be led. My eyes are wide open and there are a lot more street level warriors with words marching you outta' town, amigos.

Felipe sexenio is marching. Lopitos, La Chachalaca is smiling.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 01:55 PM

On "El Cristal Con Que se Mira" this morning, Dr. Luis Raigosa Sotelo, doctor of constitutional law, explained what art. 39 meant in relation to the following two articles and several others. What I posted yesterday (August 24, 2006 06:41 PM) about how articles 40 & 41 determine how art. 39 can be used was exactly what he elaborated.

No comments on DrTax Sacto's post from yesterday?

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 02:39 PM

Jerry B,

This article about asymetrical voting rights may be of interest to you.

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=1122&terms

As for all this constituition stuff in Mexico about who is and who is not a citizen, well, it´s hardly written in stone. Whoever has the power has been changing the rules for year when it suits their political purpose. Guess what would happen to art 33 if AMLO was in power and I pledged the help of my multi billion fortune to re-electing his chosen succesor.

Anyone like to take a bet I could have as many citizenships as I want, and still vote, contribute etc to the election?

Anyway, one reason I wouldn´t ever give money in this country is that the parties are publicly funded anyway. Until that stops, even if I were allowed, I wouldn´t. Public funded politics leads to increased corruption. Just look at Italy, Germany etc

Posted by: PeteN | August 25, 2006 02:54 PM

Ah yes... make up the story about the castaways... yes.. remember when the press made up that story about the pope dying?

And whomever called Chiapaneco "Chia-pacheco" had it right. I mean, either that or AMLO has a reality-distortion ray gun.

I'm curious, does anyone out there actually know a memeber of the Yunque? I was approached by the Opus Dei to become a member, but I'm not Catholic and definitely not interested, but I've never, ever, ever met someone from the Yunque. I mean, someone must have seen them when they poisoned the food of the campers or when they tried to assasinate AMLO, right? Maybe they live at the end of the rainbow.

Posted by: Ariel R. Orellana | August 25, 2006 02:58 PM

Public funding leads to corruption???? Say it ain't so. I thought the Nino Verde came about his fortune honestly.

Seriously, the growth of "partidos negocios" like the PVEM, the PT, Convergencia, and others is a direct outgrowth of public money. It should be stopped, but there are too many interests involved.

Posted by: Jerry B | August 25, 2006 03:00 PM

Campaign finance is a real challenge. How to keep the richest party from dominating and at the same time avoiding the abuses of the, (how will I say this?), the spurious parties. Maybe some type of hybrid approach, financing for the basics and the rest would be up to the individual parties. As a supporter of Alternativa, I would have to defend some type of financing or this option would not have existed and progressive leftists would have had no viable choices. Think congress will take up this issue? Like you said; Jerry, there are a lot of interests involved.

Posted by: K. Vronna | August 25, 2006 03:17 PM

There's a Ceci new blog Posting

Posted by: rodolfo | August 25, 2006 03:18 PM

The evidence of more and more gross irregularities in the electoral process is blatant. Yet, there is an increasing number of pro-democracy journalists denouncing the fraud and the contribution of some members of the media to hide it.

Here is a fragment of World Views by the San Francisco Chronicle, a newspaper that held its ground and did not fall for the smear campaign by Mexican conservative right wingers that demonized Lopez Obrador to keep the media from poking their noses into all irregularities and fraudulent tactics commited by the PAN and its Elbista associates. (Clear example, Calderon's phone call to some editorial boards to demand from them not to cover irregularities or issues of fairness in the process)

Kudos for the San Francisco Chronicle and its committed pro-democracy journalism:

"As the head of a government that purports to support democracy around the world (never mind that $2-billion-a-year hand-out to Egypt's longtime, democracy-crushing dictator-president, Hosni Mubarak), George W. Bush has completely ignored democracy's struggle for survival right next door, in Mexico. Many Mexicans have noticed Washington's deafening silence.


As a result, now that it's down-to-the-wire time there (Mexico's government must confirm who the next president will be by September 6), in recent days, leftist candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (or "AMLO") has reached out overseas in an impassioned appeal for support for his reform-minded, pro-democracy movement."


Yep. That's right. European press is giving progressives the derecho de replica we are denied by Mexico's monopolic television and other papers in the US.

The SFC article reminded me of an editorial in The Guardian. They spoke about "people power" being a brand owned by the US. The Guardian article argued quite convincingly that the US decides when a movement is pro-democracy and when it is subject to be portrayed as a chavez-castro-stalin-mao cartoon. Case in point: the radically different news coverage of the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine and the civil resistance movement to defend the vote in Mexico.

Posted by: Chiapaneco | August 25, 2006 03:35 PM

Ah yes, the nationwide civil unrest we were promised by AMLO.

In the centre of Chihuahua city yesterday I did see one very sorry looking tent, but couldn´t see anyone there. Please, let me once again re-iterate, Mexico DF does not represent all of Mexico, just the clients of AMLO.

Posted by: PeterN | August 25, 2006 03:50 PM

11 POLITICA. DOMINGÓ 27. IT WITHERED 2006 DOMINGO. President Maquío. Its cabinet. Dinosaurio rencarnó in blue. Pluto L ' ¬ to alter¬nos presidency and the cabinet of the MaquíO Clouthier was, rum ephemeral. They acted of the 23 of February to first of October of 1989, when del- happened the mysterious suction death presidential panista. A trailer embistio to the vehicle in which via¬jaba by a highway of the north of the country. In that half year, president Maquío. - therefore their those in favor called and his ga¬binete had oficial¬mente puestoen Saline hardships to the elect Carlos of Gortari, to that they described as usurper. The Ma¬quío by its Cardinal red side and Cuauhtémoc by another one - that one Cuauhtémoc, the one of now did not demonstrate with exceeded prue¬bas the hidden eectoral fraud in the phrase of Manuel Bartlett: "the system fell". The salinista press condemned resisten¬cia civil panista like "rebel". and the same Maquío it blamed it to forge a "treason to the mother country". Luis H. Alvarez ha¬bía taken the protest to the rebels with these words: "Gentlemen members of the Alternative Cabinet of the Party National Action: they promise to reflect, to comu¬nicar and to act with base in the principles and statutes of the party, to the political light of his plata¬formas, for good of Mexico ". I must to my writing companion, Mi¬reya Cuéllar' - author of the book panis¬tas- a data that receives relief today: in¬ or tegración of the cabinet of the Maquío: WHAT HAS BEEN OF THEM _ Carlos Perazaya Castle passed away, was the mentor of the youth of Felipillo. They di¬cen to me that the juarense industralist Francisco _ Villarreal Towers also let exist. Luis Brave Felipe Mena comprises of the foxista government, is the ambassador in ' Vatican ENRIQUE GALVÁN OCHOA. Jesus González Schmal no longer comprises of the BREAD, is concluding his delegated management as of Convergence and has been an implacable public prosecutor of the children of Mrs. Marta. On the other hand, Rogelio Sada Zambrano was mayor of San Pedro Heron delegated Garci'a federal and funcio:. nario of the Contraloríao Fernando Clariond Channels belongs to the cabinet, but no longer to the one of the Maquío; but to the one of Fox: it is the se¬cretario of Energy, after to have been of Economy. The Matapapas Fernandez de Cevallos has made fortune: this se¬mana will stop being senator and so _ time seráincorporado to the cabinet so that it continues te¬niendo law, _dicen that it must many. And Vicente Fox is the one who took to the cat al' water, exceed the commentaries. CHANGE OF SKIN and what happened after the death of president Maquío? The event marked breaks important in the life of the BREAD. They left the way of the revolt and co¬menzaron the one of the;corrupción. Chorejas captivated to the Matapapas, to the end that ex- secretarioo of the interior was the one who gave cerillazo so that the tickets of the electoral fraud were burned. Soon the adjustment in the oscurito by the governments came from Guanajuató and Baja Califomia. Time later, the same Matapapas would let _ gain the Presidency by Zedillín; according to it has lamented Don Vicente MegaSpot. But the great prianista concertacesión was la_del Fobaproa: Felipillo twisted the three "not" that had decided the reunited na¬cional panismo in Port Would fence - not to the Fobaproa, not to impunity, not to the con¬versión of the losses of the bankers in national debt and the party that presi¬día guaranteed the fraud along with the PRI. Sal¬dos? The pro is lost everything, or almost. Di¬nosaurio left its trico¬lor incarnation and rencarnó in blue. It follows plenty of life and health. Although six years ago some ingenuous ones gave it by dead, already is going to fulfill more than 80 years in the power. QUESTION INC6MODA is not a sarcasm that today the BREAD calls rebel to the Peje when it announces that the 16 of September the Democratic National Convention could designate to an alternating president y.su cabinet? _ E-VOl POPULI Subject: Pluto the Prague (24 August 2006). - Pluto per¬ or gave to east Thursday his estatus of ninth and more distant planet of the Solar System, that thus happens to have tán only eight plane¬tas, according to decided Unio'n Astronó¬mica Internacional (UAI). I protest! Exijóun count xpla¬neta planet. This is a plot of pirrurris for we cleared to Pluto. We are going to put a camping in the Moon to prevent that they put its satellites artificial, pro¬ducto more of the globalización, of impe¬rio, to press to those of down. Who is in agreement with this initiative of pacific interplanetary re¬sistencia I request to him that she attends the next informa¬tiva assembly in the Triangle _ and the Bermuda. Francisco Federal PerazalDistrito R. Why we did not command astro¬nauta Ugalde to make the count? Cuán¬tos Plutones wants? Note: The original texts and the electronic mailboxes of their authors appear in the forum. Fox, only lacks 95 days Maquío Clouthier President of the Republic and coordinator of the cabinet Diego Fernandez de Cevallos Inner Políticá Jesus González Schmal Foreign policy Fernando Clariond Channels Infrastructure, Services and Paraestatales Companies Francisco Villarreal Towers Human rights - Rogelio Economic Political zambrano Sada. Carlos Educative Political Peraza Castle and Cultural Maria Elena Alvarez Political Bemal Social Moisés Channels Health and Ecology Vicente Fox Political Quesada Farming Luis Brave Felipe Mena Technical Secretary

Posted by: RENE PADILLA | August 28, 2006 01:32 PM

The PRD was the idea of former president Luis Echeverria, he suggested it to Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas and Muñoz Ledo (both former members of Echeverria´s goverment)to make their own party to have their own cake from the federal budget and Echeverria made the same suggestion to the left parties that had a very short life like the comunist party PSUM and others that did not received enough votes to keep their registration.

That is why PRD is form mainly by former PRI members that had no future inside the PRI.

That is why they want a change but a change back to what used to be when the PRI dominated the congress the presidency the unions etc

Posted by: Fernando | September 2, 2006 01:21 PM

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