Ceci:
There's no doubt that AMLO's movement is quickly decaying. The tents at Reforma and the Zocalo are almost empty and the National newspapers are begining to report on pressuring people to attend. They are even taking lists of attendees.

AMLO's movement will never be remember in the likes of Vasconcelos or Cardenas 88, it cannot be remembered as such. Many of the people who lived through the Cardenas-Salinas events are now defending the integrity of the IFE and our elections.

But there is a good lesson Mexicans are learning here: TRIFE has shown strenght and will declare a President soon and their final veredict will only clean the name of the IFE.
And future candidates to all levels of governments will always accept the results of the IFE and will not take their impugnations to the street knowing perfectly that the authorities will not give in to cheap pressures and that the people will quickly take away their support to their causes.
Mexico is a country of Institutions and we have more than one president today. Our President is Fox, but there is also the President of Congress, and the President of the Supreme Court, and the President of the IFE, and the President of the TRIFE.
Our country has developed these institutions and they are there to make our democracy prevail.
Although I believe this whole affair has been unnecesary I also believe this events will bring a better Mexico. A Mexico of young people, like Felipe Calderon, and a Mexico looking to the future and not to the past and to failed economic theories of government control.
We are witnessing the last kicks and punches from the old and hardest and most totalitarian PRI people. Lopez Obrador and Camacho Solis and Manuel Barttlet represent this totalitarian branch of the PRI, when the PRI begun to crumble they left the party and went to PRD, but they brought their thrist for absolute power with them. They have demonstrated us how correct was the PAN when they labeled them as a danger for Mexico. And Indeed they were, but they lost, and all they have today is a bunch of empty tents in Reforma and Zocalo. We will be happy to clean the zocalo when as soon as they leave or are kicked out. Whatever occurs firts.

AMLOs movment is on the rise, no matter what other people say, here in tiny Lerdo dgo.,everyday, a not very large, but continual group of PRD supporters hold their meetings in the main plaza, and this is a PANista town. The proof is that even Fox, had 2 come out, and declare Calderon the winner, thou hes not suppose to do that. Perhaps hes got wind of something quite not to his likeing coming out of the TRIFE? Is he trying to get ahead of everyone, and declare FECAL the winner? Why his desperation? Perhaps hes trying to distract the media away form the ruling against Marthas sons, who bilked the Mexican goverment of over 1billion pesos. And also the Ahumada Video, which places the blame of the desafuero at Foxs doorstep. But one thing is clear, the judgement of histroy is at hand, and clearly, those who fight for true Mexican democracy, will be seen in the future as the real defenders of Mexico. Not some lackys who only know how to make money off the goverment tit.

mayaO,

I would replace "tit" with "milky breast".

Ta ta'!

I'll be back, Ihave to wash my breasts. You know who came suckling and I'm all excited. Ta ta' again.

maya0: I agree with everything you say. When is the revolution going to begin? I am anxious to buy some souvenirs, maybe coffee mugs with AMLO's face or keyholders, and maybe take a revolutionary tour around Reforma and the Zocalo.

Well, after taking time off yesterday I came to the realization that I was conned into engaging one of the loonies. He started out "reasonable" but then ended up radical, refusing to answer direct questions and just counterattacking, not counterproposing.

Now, I rarely take time to address maya's comments because he's a well documented loonie, only TG has managed to get something that was not profanity-laden out of him and began sounding like there might actually be a brain in there. Alas, he had to go and say something completely lacking in perspective and intelligence:

"Perhaps a little finger pointing is a good thing, what would have happen to Hitler and his pals, had enough jews and non jews in Germany had pointed their finger at Hitler and his thugs and called them the monsters that they where before it was too late. And what would have happen to the civil rights movement in the USA, had enough whites shared the finger pointing that blacks where using at the KKK and their racists cohorts?"

Perhaps a little finger pointing might have stopped: the tlatelolco massacre, the Chorpus day massacre, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Chinese cultural revolution, the Stalinist gulags, the massacre of civilian Kurds with chemical weapons by Saddam, the massacre at Wounded Knee and, why not? the "colonization" of the american continent by the europeans. I'm sure that it could have also stopped Temüjin from leading the Mongols all the way to Europe and prevented Caesar from killing Vercingetorix, but that might be taking it a little too far, perhaps.

spoiler, I'll take your lead: one thing I would to know is which of AMLO's proposals deserve serious consideration.

I have one for sure: better pensions for old people and retirees. I believe this one is valid because this people cannot be expected to find new sources of income. Another one might be subsidized milk for poor families with children. This does bring along with it a question as to how to pay for it, possible sources are: gypsy cabs, the ambulant sellers, pirated goods dealers, corruption fighting. Obviously fighting and collecting money from these people takes more money, so we can't just say that this will solve the budget problem, but its a start. What I would like to hear is wether or not these are good ways of fighting poverty or not and why that is as well as how we would pay for this.

There are other proposals of AMLO I'm ambivalent on, but those two seem reasonable enough to start off with.

***URGENT***

For all the people posting at this blog you need to GET A LIFE .... PRONTO!!!

Can't believe all the stupid posts, from same all extreme right wing - left wing old arguments, to insults, to someone who has enough time to track someone else's posts. Geez!

Please get a life and get back to work or volunteer the countless hours you spent here helping others.

As for me? first and last post.

Right on, the last post.

I will also move on to other places in cyberspace.

See ya.

give me a break:
Get a life?
We all have a life already and we are just having some fun here.
Why don't you get a life?

In order to build some bridges and to get more people enthusiastic about this ongoing blog I propose adding a few more topics to it:
a) The Heroic Job The American Army doing in Irak, they are kicking the butts of those god-forsaken terrorists and liberating the Iraki people from radical fundamentalism.

b) The great bombing of Lebanon by the heroic Iraelii soldiers who are kicking the hell out of those terrorists, with a just a few minor collateral damages.

c) add yours.

emptyboxes, wow, are u serious? Do u know that 70 percent of americans in the usa, want the usa out of Iraq. Conservatives are starting to make statments about the mental health of bush. That in Israel, the population is demanding why the war against the party of god, went so badly, 2day one of their tanks blew up and one of their soldiers died. What fantasy land do u live in? Or like bush, whos like a president on another planet, which planet do u live on? Ok ok, your just trying to get people irked and see if they react. Well, actuclly your pretty funny living on that planet where the usa is winning in Iraq, and Israel bought down the party of god. But its not this planet. Here, both the usa and israel, are getting their butts handed to them. And AMLO won the presidency, no matter what looney tunes Fox says about FECAL.

Maya0,

Just so that what happened in Parras is put in perspective, the cause of the flash flood was rain that fell 18 kilometers south of the town and caused an arroyo that runs through the town to overflow its banks. It wasn't lack of drainage.

You said:

"And your second point, about Mexico city, well, they have got more to work on in a city that size, dont they? Its gonna take a while, whats the excuse in a wee little town like Parras? Cant think of any can u?"

Are you saying that nine years is not enough to fix the DF? Then, why are six years enough to fix all of Mexico's problems?

rodolfa
Eres mujer! Now I understand where your coming from. Not enuff things to do around your spacious peach colored home? Cant entice the UPS man? Now I get it, well enough said. Emptyboxes with the cocaine, and Peter with his warm beer, should be more than enough for u to handle. U should look up the recipe for making crack, and then have a FECAL King of Mexico extravaganza. Just keep it quiet, am sure your already concern neighbors are not up for all day into the night orgys. Sorry for calling u a puto, but i did get the perra slapping right didnt I?

TG
Have u ever been to Parras de la fuente coah? I have, many a time, its nearby actually. Only a couple of hours, and I can say factually what its like in Parras. No adequate drainage exsits for any kind of flooding, much less a flash flood. Its a 400 year old town, that cant get all its streets paved. Ive also been to Mexico City, again, u cant compare tiny Parras to mega city D.F.
Why then do u try?
Ill give u one more example of PRIPAN, mishandling of things. In torreon coah, a farily avarage size city, has a Distribidora Vial. It only a few blocks of bridges criss crossing each other, carring trucks buses, and cars. Well it took more to make the entire structure of the DVR in torreon, than it did to make the whole segundo piso in Mexico city, which streaches, how many miles long? Oh, and the DVR in torreon, has no perlata, as u drive on it, theirs no banking on the curve, so a few trucks, have slid off the highest points of the bridge, having killed already 3 people since its been made. A PAN controlled town, and a PRI controlled state. They both have been tossing the blame ball between themselves. And now, their going to have to tear this thing down. Do u want more examples of the fine work that the PRIPAN have done here in the north of Mexico. Ive have loads of items, personally lived.
Am not talking things ive only read about, but lived.

They are beginning the recount of votes in Chiapas. It will be interesting to see how AMLO will react if this overturns the PRD's lead. Like AMLO himself, who blew a ten point lead from a couple months before the election, Chiapas is another place where, if one had asked in June, I would have said it was impossible for the PRD to lose. They should have been no doubt about the winner of this election, it should have been the PRD in a landslide. I guess AMLO is useful for some things, because the fact that it was not a landslide in Chiapas can be directly atributed to him.

Fox did not service the cause of grey Calderon when he declared him president elect. It is clear to all that Fox intervened in the electoral process and violated the principle of equity which, according to the Mexican Constitution, is to rule all electoral processes. Fox is a traitor to the Constitution he swore to uphold when he became the first opposition president after seven decades of one party rule. For more on Fox's lame duck status and sorry results as president check out Rivapalacio's editorial of today which compares Fox to a gardener who made all conflicts grow in these six years

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/columnas/59941.html

Fox's declarations are rendering TRIFE uselsess. If TRIFE rules to validate fraud and does not clarify reasonable doubts millions of Mexicans have regarding electoral results it will seem that it acted following Fox's orders and not to serve justice for all. TRIFE would loose all credibility. Another institution going down the toilett because of Fox's and crony capitalits wishes to impose Calderon.

I don't agree the civil resistance movement is confined to Mexico City. Ceci you should check reports on the marcaje thats being made to Fox and puppet Calderon whenever they show their faces in public. They are picking closed auditoriums and pre-selected audiences because they are scared sht...less about voto por voto protests.

I don't live in Mexico City but in my state discontent is widespread and people will certainly not back an authoritarian regression so easily as the PAN wants to believe. After all their propaganda about the transition we took a liking to democracy you see. Even if we are not in camps we still think this electoral process so far has been fraudulent. It is funny Mitofski or any of the "serious" pollsters have not polled on the percentage who thinks there was fraud. I guess they are too scared of what results might show. Even many panistas don't buy it that Calderon won. Yet they don't care because their antidemocratic credentials, they believe in the "fraude patriotico" to stop Lopez Obrador from becoming president.

Another country, another stolen election by right-wingers.

More of the same.

What's next? Will Mexico invade Iceland searching for Weapons of Mass Distraction?

Maya0,

I think we should leave these guys to their rants and only respond to what's being posted by Ceci. Everything they say is polluted by the negative campaign and it is just too tiresome to argue with people who are not able to engage in a reasonable debate without hate speech and name calling.

I blog because I feel that the media in Mexico has not been impartial or neutral as we all needed in such a critical situation. Our side is the side of millions of Mexicans who want change and it should be taken into account by international media and international public opinion and not rendered to a cartoon painted by the Panista foreign political consultants. The cerco infomativo should end in Mexico's monopolic televisions and conservative newspapers who respond to PAN interests.

We have every right to demand that our voices be heard and let everybody now that despite their attempts to see this as one man's quest that is not the case. The Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion is what many of us see as necessary to address Mexico's needs.

Ceci,

Could you invite Kathleen Bruhn again to a chat in this blog? I think it would be interesting to share her views about what's going on with Mexico. She could bring a fresh, unpolluted perspective on the civil resistance movement and put it in context.

Will,

Yep. But we do not carry the burden of a consolidated democracy that would stop us from accepting the PAN's fraudulent results. No end near for this protesta. As I said, we took a liking to democracy after all the propaganda of these past six years and we are quite ready keep demanding that the popular will is respected. No cansancio here.

I meant to say we do not carry the burden of a consolidated democracy that would prevent us from rejecting with protests and peaceful civil resistance the fraudulent PAN results :)

(that's what comes after reading vocero Aguilar)

Chiapaneco: Where is the "mass resistance" outside of AMLOlandia (DF)? Is there any in the north? If so, where? Also, assuming that the PRD did win in Chiapas, why was it by two tenths of a percentage point, and not by the ten points or so that polls pointed to a couple months ago? Furthermore, does "mass resistance" extend to vote buying by the PRD in Chiapas?
Just wondering.

Jerry, ever noticed how they keep claiming that they have millions upon millions of supporters, yet they managed not to vote?

Ariel, that was part of the complo...The vote was supressed. Didn't you know that already? Same thing was done to them in Chiapas.

Ceci,

Manuel Espino CEO of the PAN still has to explain his fraudulent tactics to steal Chiapas state election for his friend Priista Aguilar. This alliance was meant to force the PRI into accepting Calderon's imposition.

In this recording Espino tells PRI lieutenant in Chiapas that he has gathered 1.5 million pesos presumably to aid last minute vote buying. According to them, the money would have come from PRI governors in Puebla, Durango and Estado de Mexico.

Elba Ester Gordillo should also explain about members of the Magisterio caught on fraudulent activities.

Here is the Espino recording. The PAN's fraudulent tactics were not sufficient to aid PRIANISTA Aguilar into defeating Sabines. Enjoy!

http://www.lopezobrador.org.mx/noticias/audios/1908200601.wma

Now we have something interesing to discuss, aside from today's Ceci"s blog posting:

PeterN:

Excellent beer Guinness! Fully agree with you that it is not that strong, the bad thing is they add sugar to the brew. The Guinness you find here in the US is a bit watered down for my taste....I like the frothy, mealy, sweet but sour taste of the brew. I have had the occasion to sit in Temple Barr (you know where, not Edinburgh) but the other Celtic country, so close to Scotland yet so far. As you know, Guinness is now owned by Diageo, and they are watering it down, I suspect. They are favoring Harp, also from that same country but lighter colored and more "drinkable". And the best Guinness, granted, as clearly expressed by MayaO, is warm. On the subject of whether you should give your opinion or not, I would say to MayaO and others:

Why was she born so beautiful, why was she born at all, she's no bloody use to anyone, she´s no bloody use at all, (and then pointing fingers) it´s her....it´s her.

Or even more, there is a dark tribe in Africa......oops, I better not go there.

Slainte, PeterN

On the politics of the future...this is my humble contribution

To me the next president of Mexico needs to do three main things.

1) Must focus on devolving government: with the hope of placing the onus for providing the conditions for economic development to State governments. Just for example....Sabines putative election to Chiapas should be a great boon...because then, since he has the backing of the local elite powers in the State (the Parientes, et.al.)he can focus on bringing the coffee regions in the Soconusco to the heights they should have. I hear everywhere of Costa Rica Arabica, even Guatemala robusto, etc. but not of Soconusco or Chiapas bitters or aromatic something or other. There is no better place to provide for the growth of that beverage as in Chiapas. Similarly, the north of the State is full of oil, near Pichucalco, and we are throwing the gas away in getting to the oil. Natural gas, technology along with oil extraction is something that would give great benefits.

The center of the State, the Villaflores, Tuxtla Gutierrez, San Cristobal de las Casas axis should be a cultural, intellectual, haven. And then the Bonampak, Comitán, as well as San Cristobal again, should develop modern techniques for agriculture, consonant with the local indigenous populations.

For better or for worse, Sabines will have to deal with the Zapatista movement. He will need to sit and listen and strengthen the municipal and local focus they advocate. That actually would be a great political thing to do. And to an earlier blog, from Chiapaneco, I think, that said that the Sub is dead and irrelevant, I say he is like that tumor that lies dormant within your belly. It is lying in
wait, before it metastasizes.

The second thrust is that the federal government needs to focus only on key action steps...these should be: negotiating with the legislature to create the right infrastructure for justice. Look at best practices in justice administration, and in police protection. English, French and Spanish police methods (given the long experience with the IRA, the ETA, and the Algerian experience) have developed great practice in this area. Definitely do not look to the States for that....the National Guard, jeeez, louissee.

The third focus should be on immigration. But first, the Mexican government needs to change its own immigration policies...they should accept foreigners, particularly those that are very likely to add to the economic and social improvement of the country. They should treat the Central American peregrinos with respect and dignity. This is something, by the way, that would require coordination with the Chiapas government for example.
By the way, the next president of Mexico has a unique opportunity to negotiate with the US for a better immigration deal in the US. An open discussion on the subject, now, in all likelihood would be a welcome element for Georgie. Based on the two items above, devolving government and letting state governments focus on economic development.

As to what to do with oil, education, health, other regions in the country, such as the Sonora Chihuahua---the Tamaulipas, northern Veracruz, or even the Guerrero, Michoacan Jalisco axis...those should follow the logic here. What is the issue? who can best deal with it? Where would be the best cost/benefit ratio be. For example, education, to me should be more of a local matter (financed by the federal government but locally implemented)to me a Secretaría de Educación Pública is like forming the National Federation of humor, it just does not make sense.

Oil since it is a big resource should be kept nationalized on functions that best require that...say where to explore, and how to explore, but I would have local Board of Directors, that follow a State logic, rather than a national logic.

The marketing, technology innovation, and financial functions, I would privatize. Further, the Federal Government should develop environmental regulations that each State, company, and process should follow.

So, three main axis...devolution (or whatever you want to call it, but following the Scottish sese of the term), justice, and immigration reform.

The skill sets required to do these thrusts would require negotiations with legislatures, treating state governments as partners, and listening to local power configurations. Also executional demands will require that the financing of state activities change dramatically.

In addition, Mexico´s relations with other countries would be based on its building its infrastructure not in trying to pontificate about world affairs.

Another thing: Keep all churches out of government, that´s one thing Juárez, Díaz (the dictator) and the PRI did right. And yet one more: Mexico must join OPEC.

Key intellectual gurus that the next president should consult:

Nestor Garcia Canclini, Martha Nussbaum, Amartya Sen, Michael Walzer, Candido Mendes and Simon Blackburn (Look them up, if you want, they are in the book, I mean in Google)

It is 7:53 a.m., I will go get a Warsteiner beer. I am feeling German right now.

Posted by: Viper | August 23, 2006 07:54 AM

La Hora del Pueblo Blog is smokin' with more juicy gossip.

Apparently Televisa was a main player in the July 2's media supported fraud. Both Fox's and Ugalde's tapings released at 11 PM, when they talked about close results, had been taped way before hand. I think a third opinion might be needed on this to ensure this was the case. I wonder how the press has not analyzed this bit.

The media contribution to fraud was poorly planned though. At 8 pm journalist Jaime Aviles wrote to talking head Lopez Doriga not to contribute to this authoritarian backlash and media backed coup to give Calderon a razor thin edge of .5% over Lopez Obrador.

Days before the media backed fraud on July 2, Carlos Loret de Mola was sent to tell Lopez Obrador's campaign members that Televisa would announce a 5% Lopez Obrador win at 8PM on July 2 (these results were also given in Maria de las Heras last poll before elections).

Apparently Loret de Mola acted on Televisa's behalf to ease the mind of Lopez Obrador and prevent him from summoning the people who backed him to protest what was about to happen.

More interesting and juicy details in

lahoradelpueblo.blogspot.com

mayaO,

No, Valemadres got it. Are you completely crazy or is it a gang of lame perdedista compadres taking 8 hour turns at the computer. You start at 10 am and finsh 14 hours later. Vivi, loquita.

(I placed this in the last section, but felt I needed to make sure these two received my post)

Maya 0 IQ, Chiapaneco,

Lets just try to work this out since you have gone on and on about your blessed article 33 and how I am illegally interfering in your election, (or perhaps in both your cases that should read erection, as your mutual masturbation and intolerence of others would show). Have I voted in your election, answer NO, was I an observer or poll counter, answer NO, was I appointed to make any decisions on a recount etc, answer NO.

If you still feel that I as a foreigner married to a Mexican have no right to express an opinion, then you might like to consider the fact that this is a comment section of a newspaper based in Washington DC, not Mexico DF. Do you have any opinions on the plans by the USA to build a wall to keep wetbacks out of USA? Surely not, it would be wrong to interfere in that countrys affairs.

Article 37. Ever hear of dual nationality?

You´re just a couple of third class constituitional lawyers, trying to silence people by quoting the law, when you can´t defend your situation.

Maya 0, I´ll get back to you on China and Vietnam soon, but it´s good to see your still picking your examples well.

And whats a violent calamite? Sounds like a very nasty type of crustacean

Es importante destacar que al obtener la nacionalidad mexicana debe renunciar a su nacionalidad de origen.
http://www.sre.gob.mx/ayuda/faqnacionalidad.htm

Sorry dual nationality only for Mexicanos by birth. No constitucionalista but knowledgeable about the law of the land.

If a British citizen wants to become Mexican and intervene in Mexico's internal affairs while living in Mexico the only way to go about it is to renounce to the Brit citizenship and the EU passport. Sorry, you are still violating Article 33. No dual nationality and no vote for you.

Maya0,

I read somewhere that a lot of millions of pesos from Chihuahua's deep pockets went into the negative campaign and are still fueling the negative TV spots against the recount and Alejandro Encinas, the major of Mexico City. These are the guys who ilegaly intervened in the campaigns with TV spots when the COFIPE states only political parties might do it.

Mmmmm.... thats interference in politica affairs... and I hope not coming from a foreigner not allowed to obtain dual citizenship. That would be really bad news indeed.

Chiapaneco, Maya negative one, how are you all going to react when the TEPJF rules that Calderon is president elect? Have you thought about moving to North Korea or Cuba, where they might appreciate your views more, and where you could personally and permantly experience AMLO type policies on economics and political dissent?

Apparently some people in Mexico only care about the rule of law when its applied to protect their interests. What a shame. This is characteristic of the antidemocratic right who does not want a full recount that would expose all irregularities. They rightly fear it might compromise the "patriotic fraud" they support to prevent Lopez Obrador from being president.

This is the sort of thing the progressive agenda wants to end. We don't want any more impunity. We want respect for the vote. We want transparency and certainty to electoral results. Mexico, and Mexicans who believe in democracy as the best way to govern our country deserve no less.

Chiapaneco,

I´m still waiting for you to explain how any article of Mexican law has power in a comment section of a United States of America newspaper, or are you implying that any opinion about Mexico, made by anyone who is not a citizen of Mexico, in any form of media, in any part of the world, is subject to Mexican law?

It would make life so much easier for you if you could suppress free speach world wide, but guess what, it ain´t going to happen.

Trying to silence people by quoting the law . Poor silly me, I thought that was PAN strategy.

Diego Fernandez and Calderon's nerdy cronies are very keen on that. Antidemocratic regimes usually use the legality card to silence public outcry for democratization. The PRI was always legal in its own terms. Fox's behavior of declaring Calderon elect is dictatorial and not democratic. He has stepped over the Tribunal and compromised its credibility. He is no different from PRI presidents before him with his absurd attempt at dedazo.

Progressives in Mexico know the law too and we are firm believers that it should be applied fairly and transparently for the good of all Mexicans.

Lord Windsor,

Was my answer about certain party right?

Calamite is a type of land lizard that bites angry losers and they become multiple personality sociopaths with no humor. After their sorry addition of mistakes and crass political naivite acquieres critical mass, you get this automaton resented vagrants. They become irrelevant by means of their lackluster dwarfing imagination. Hear mayaO roar the squeal of a defeated mouse.

No need to make a cartoon or involve the Washington Post. I am glad there is free speech, and open media elsewhere. Otherwise we would still be stuck in Televisa-PRI dictatorship. I think it's good the Post supports plurality by opening this blog.

No beating around the bush on this one. No dual citizenship for foreigners. Foreigners who are welcome to live in Mexico must follow the law of the land. That means no intervention in Mexico's political affairs and no voting.

Some people would like to think that's Cuba or North Corea and make a joke out of the Constitution well that's their bussiness.

Does Mexican law apply to a comment section of a United States of America newspaper. Yes or No.

Article 33 fans,

You have to take your case to a PAN dominated congress, president and Supreme Court with no humor to antagonize a modernizing society.

You'd have to be an interpol fugitive for anyone pay attention to art. 33 cases. It is used only as a form of expedient removal
of like minded mayaO foreign amigos.

After the Atenco police intervention, several foreigners from Spain and Italy were summarily sent packing. They haven't been back.

Hi rodolfo, as you can see I´ve been trying to get a straight answer out of a politician.

Yes your answer was correct, those laws on bloodline to become a citizen came out of the Nazi partys manifesto.

Chiapaneca, 6:14 PM

This is the PAN century rocking. No more PRI media monopoly. Now it's like, well something new and fun: Televisa-PAN friendship dawning. Sort of started when Fox came to power. Fox says jump, Televisa says how high.

Those three marineros, 9 months at sea and they even have haircuts. They look like they were planted like maybe the same week they were found. Distracting fun and very believable yet effective. Chapulin Colorado
storytelling, if you ask me. We Mexicans love tall tales. Ask Lopitos Revolucionario.

You know, the legal documents presented by the Coalicion to the tribunal was a study in shoddy work. I won't get into details save this one: They ask for a recount 100% of the stations, fully knowing (at least they should've) that they needed to file paperwork for the same stations, but they only filed for something around 30% of the stations. This guaranteed the failure of the "vote by vote" initiative. I guess this group of progressives that know the law were high when they wrote those filings or something.

Also, this group likes to claim that the constitution says this and the constitution says that, but always neglect to mention that constitutional articles are not directly applicable to any situation, for that, you need articles of law. Since those laws have not been declared unconstitutional, the laws will be used by the tribunal. When you look at the actual law that defines what is a fair election and what isn't, you'll find that this election meets every single criteria.

Interesting. Now the Nazis copied Mexican Constitution? Because it preceded them for decades. Again another remark that shows deep disrespect from a foreigner to the country that welcomed him.

For foreigners living in Mexico: no voting, no intervention in political affairs and certainly no allowances to give money into negative campaigns.

I know we have matured as a society since the 1988. We did take a liking to democracy. It is not going to be so easy to use Chespirito and chupacabras scheemes to divert the public. Maybe some, but not as many as to end resistance to an authoritarian imposition.

Again, pretty suspicious Mitofski and other pollsters not polling on the perception of fraud. Must be scared.

AMLO LOST THE ELECTION!! that's for sure and the only one responsible for his defeated is AMLO. He on his mind flew to high, when he was 10 points ahead his opponents, and I was really scared for the future of Mexico, but fortunately he himself started his mesias deliriums, took back his own words that he made in the past and proved he´s a lyer, He offended the President (wich has made a lot of mistakes but neverless he's well accepted by lots of people) the bankers, the entrepreneurs and all those who didn't shared his ideas or politics. and lots of people realized. Now with his actions he's just showing that I was right to be scared and to called him a danger for this country.
It´s a pity what's happenning in my dear Mexico city but the good thing about it is that a lot of people that supported him and voted for him now is regret and this patetic guy himself is time by time digging his own political tomb. and the best thing is We againts him and in favor of mexican institutions didn't have to do anything like block streets. :-)

Lord Windsor,

After the Mexican revolution there was a long period of restlesness. The paranoia ran rampant and laws were applied as authorities saw fit. The first civilian president in 20 century Mexico was Miguel Aleman in 1946. Porfirio Diaz rose to power
in 1880 and was also a military general. Mexico has been run by hardline authoritarians until 1994, when authoritoritarinism began to subside gradually until Fox came to power.

Lopez is using Mexican society's ages old distrust of authorities as a false premise
to advance his stupid stratagem "today is just like oldtimes". He was always in the PRI until the emerging moderate PRI exasperated old-style thugs who controlled things the old way and felt didn't need modernizing. Lopez is truly a retro politician of the Echeverria school of patronizing govenment.

chiapaneca,

I like yor post. Read it again. You sound like Peter Lorre. He is one of my favorite
actors. You nailed the serious but comedy.
Study that gem, amigos.

Orellana,

You know it , I know it and PRD knew it. They knew they lost July 3 Monday morning. Their suit was a formality. We are now in the 21st century and if there is a strong fool-proof institution, it's the IFE and TEPJF.

Today Reforma stretches are opening for normal traffic. The Lopez horse and pony show is falling apart step by step. These clowns never had a case.

I guess some of the regulars did not catch this. No need to use different nicks. Here it goes.

To counter his charisma the right has deemed Lopez Obrador as a crazy populist.

Paid historian Enrique Krauze even came up with the Messianic adjective so the Panistas could use it to attack Lopez Obrador and his platform (No original ideas Fox used it yesterday). According to this view only faithful idiots could share his proposals for change in this country. Why would we want something different if eveything is just great? (For more on Krauze's track record as historian-publicist on demand check out his work during Salinas sexenio when he tried to convince Mexicans Porfirio Diaz was not such a bad guy and Mexicans should support Salinas re-election)

Here is a sample of the extreme hypocrisy of the PAN. A link to a pamphlet distributed by Grupo Tepeyac depicting Calderon as Juan Diego, asking the faithful to vote for him and demonizing Lopez Obrador.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3311/2101/1600/grupo%20tepeyac.jpg

What say you Norberto? God is a Panista?

Does Mexican law apply to a comment section of a United States of America newspaper. Yes or No.

Fun reading for Lopez haters:

http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?id_nota=257505

"Interesting. Now the Nazis copied Mexican Constitution? Because it preceded them for decades. Again another remark that shows deep disrespect from a foreigner to the country that welcomed him. "

Chiapaneco, if you can´t follow the thread, don´t just butt in with worthless comments, go back and read the posts again if need be.

PeterN has the right according to our constitution, as any person of any given nationality living in Mexico, to express his opinion. But then again, I don't think that applies in here since it is a blog of an american newspaper. So, please, just drop the subject ok? It is completely irrelevant.

Jacky,

Democracy works, effective campaigning and Lopez's arrogance not to go to the first debate, the chachalaca really great idea and his absence from TV for three weeks to answer a demolishing panista campaign = defeat.

Can you imagine such an inept campaigner as president. The guy squandered an insurmountable lead. Pobre pejito.

Chiapaneco, you wrote this:
For foreigners living in Mexico: no voting, no intervention in political affairs and certainly no allowances to give money into negative campaigns.

Do you think the United States should also adopt an article 33, and add a no dual citizenship clause? (There is a movement afoot to do exactly that.) Would that benefit or hurt Mexicans?

Ariel:
You wrote:
"that they needed to file paperwork for the same stations, but they only filed for something around 30% of the stations. This guaranteed the failure of the "vote by vote" initiative. I guess this group of progressives that know the law were high when they wrote those filings or something"

The PRD officials were not high or drunk when they wrote their main impugnation. They made it so that the TRIFE would never carry out a total recount and annul the election before that occured. They cleverly wrote only to make it possible to recount those Polling Stations where Felipe Calderon obtained the most votes.

What this simple fact tell us is that the Vote by Vote was nothing but a smoke screen to hide the fraud that PRD carried out in many Casillas in southeast Mexico. They knew that with the levels of abstensionism of the impoverished states of the southeast, Chiapas 40% for example, they could never match the high participation from Central and Northern Mexico. The only place where the level of abstensionism is as low as in north Mexico is the DF but that was not going to be enough.
PAN had in fact impugnated a certain amount of Casillas from these states looking for annulment but PAN is at the same time being careful about keeping the elections clean, they know that if they discovered ballot stuffing in some casillas of the south, they might be too many it could render the election null.

The fact is AMLO's fraud allegations don't fly to the point is that everybody has been questioning them Where is the Fraud? People are not asking the IFE and TRIFE anything. They trust them.

As usual our imbecile leftist in Mexico did not get offended at all for the intromission of Cuba into Mexican affairs with that video of Ahumada being interviewed.

The video came from Cuba and was not only a fragment of a complete video, but it was also edited in an effort to put together different statements from Ahumada from different interviews as the changes in the background and lights suggests.

All these facts and the timing to make this video public through a very leftist and manipulative imbecile like Carmen Aristegui clearly show we have a very bad friend in Cuba who wants to disrupts and interfere in our internal affairs.

But according to Denisse Dresser, Lorenzo Meyer, Carlos Fuentes and other imbeciles of the left in our country, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Now if tomorrow the USA Ambassador declares that Mexico needs to control the narco violence in Nuevo Laredo, all the imbeciles of the left in congress, prd, pt and convergencia and all those equally imbecile intellectuals like Jose Antonio Crespo and Denise and Carlos Fuentes and Monsivais and the UNAM, all of these excremental leftist will protest loudly and cry out an intromision from the Capitalist Empíre into our global affairs.

The only thing that will ever force these imbeciles of the left and the PRD and PT and Convergencia to protest to Cuba will be when they launch an attack to our national territory, and maybe then, Monsivais will probably send a Carta de Extrañamiento to their dear friend the Cuban ambassador and the PRD will send a commission to offer dialogue to Castro or his brother.

This is the kind of left we have in our country.

Speaking of Cuba, here is wonderful article about how all the Cuban doctors in Venezuela either end up campaigning for Chavez or defecting to Columbia.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15274916.htm

MAYAO AND CHIAPANECO:
I am Mexican and you have no right to speak on behalf of most of us,
You post comments saying that Mexicans want a change in Mexico!!!
What is this change to you??
A Lopez Obrador President who claims that the rich people have too much and the poor people don't!!!!
It is true that there is a lot of wealthy people in Mexico, but it is also true that most wealthy people have what they deserve,
They either inherited from a hard working past generation, they are presedntly work hard, because nothing comes from the sky!!!! even if people are wealthy because they have illegally enriched themselves, sooner or later they would get caught sent to prison or killed. SO, Everything has a price!!!
People have what they have achieved with whatever decisions they take.
I am tired listening to people like you talking about how bad is that AMLO lost,
BUT THE FACT IS THAT AMLO LOST!!!!
and FELIPE CALDERON WON!!!!
I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ARE YOU MAYA,
SO EAGER TO WISH AMLO CAN BE THE NEXT MEXICAN PRESIDENT???
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT AMLO IS LIKE A GOD THAT WOULD STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING POOR???
DONT YOU HAVE FAMILY IN MEXICO CITY???
PEOPLE THAT REALLY KNOW THAT WHEN AMLO WAS THE CITY MAYOR, HE AND HIS ASSISTANTS STOLE AND STOLE UNTIL THE CITY IS BROKE AND IT WOULD TAKE THE CITIZENS OF MEXICO CITY TO PAY BACK WITH TAXES ABOUT 20 YEARS MORE!!!
DONT YOU KNOW THAT WHILE AMLO TELLS PEOPLE TO CAMP OUT, AND WHILE THESE PEOPLE ARE CAMPING, SUFFERING HUNGER, COLD WEATHER , HOT WEATHER IN THE MAIN AVENUES OF MEXICO CITY,
AT THE SAME TIME,
HE HAS BEEN SEEN EATING IN VERY EXPENSIVE RESTAURANTS,
AND HE IS STAYING IN THE MOST EXPENSIVE HOTEL OF MEXICO CITY.(HILLTON)
DOES HE SACRIFICE AS HIS FOLLOWERS??
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,
HE DOES NOT AND HE WONT'
HE IS SUCH A BIG LIAR!!!!
THE ONLY THING IS THAT HE IS A GOOD SPEAKER LIKE ONE OF THOSE FRAUDULENT CHURCH LEADERS THAT AMAZINGLY TRAP PEOPLE'S MINDS LIKE YOURS.
IS AMLO REALLY YOUR HEROE?? ALSO, DONT YOU KNOW THAT HIS SON IS LIVING AS A KING IN MIAMI!!!! IF HE IS AGAINST THE RICH FOR HAVING TOO MUCH, AS HE SAYS,
WHY DOESNT HE GIVE AWAY WHAT HE HAS???
SO PLEASE DONT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MILLIONS OF MEXICANS WHO REALLY KNOW AND OTHER ONES THAT THEY ARE FINALLY REALIZING WHAT KIND OF PERSON AMLO REALLY IS!!!!
MEXICO DOES NOT WANT AMLO FOR PRESIDENT!!!!
PS: NEXT TIME YOU TALK ABOUT AMLO, PLEASE INVESTIGATE WITH REAL FINDINGS,
AS EMPTY BOXES WHO SEEMS TO BE VERY KNOWLEADGEABLE.

"What say you Norberto? God is a Panista?"

Nah, only that the link doesn't work. Divine intervention I guess.

Rodolfa
No mija, no estoy loco, i didnt vote for FECAL as u and your PANistas have. As to how many hours I spend here, well, ever heard of posting, then going out, then a while later, chking back in? I dont have to sit 14 hours at my comp, Unlike U, i do have a life. Am fortunate to live in a little town, in north Mexico. I dont comute very far from my home, infact, everything is pretty close. At the most, ill go maybe half hour away, non stop, thats the limit of these cities here, b4 the desert swallows everything up. So unlike u, who probally live in some terrible congested place, am in paradise. Cept for all the poverty, ppl begging at the street intersections. Young men wiping down windshields for a peso. Terrible public transportation with buses that look like something out the end of times, bleching blue black smoke at all hours. Corrput police and transitos. Underpaid workers, and their overpaid bosses. Streets that are mine fields, and when it rains, it floods. Just 10mins will do it. Prices like tortillas going for almost 7pesos a kilo, and one litro of milk going on 10pesos. Other than that, everythings fine. Oh and PeterN, yes sure u can say anything u want here, its fine, its not Mexico, infact, this place isnt anywhere. Just watch yourself in person, going on and on, about Mexican politics. Thats where 33 maybe called into effect. Not here in the ether PeterN, geesh, what a serious joe. Oh and I welcome anyone, to comment on the above posting I did about the inept work that the PRIPAN has done here in the North. Heres one for u all. Ever heard of the famous 2 then, 1 then 2 super highway? Yes, not to long ago, in Coauhila, they had this lackluster highway, that ran from torreon, to saltillo. For years, it was a dangrous streach of road, as it had traffic going both ways on just one streach of highway. As a pass time, u could count the crosses next to the highway. Well under the PRIPAN systum of doing things, they built another highway, next to the old highway. Running right next to it. But guess what? This new highway, was to be private. So they built it in some sections towering over 6 mtrs in the air. Fences on both sides, thou how anything could get on it, it being over 6mtrs tall was beyond me. Now, u would think, well, they now got 2 highways, ,running next to each other, so one could be for going one way, the other, the other way. Wrong! They both ran traffic, the old highway, both lanes, cars and buses, still having to pass inches away from each other. And the 6 mtr tall new highway? Well that one also ran traffic, both ways! Traffic running in four diffrent directions on both highways next to each other. Well its funny now to think how stupid it looked, but it wasnt funny to those familes who still crashed into each other, or on that new 6mtr tall freeway, when they flew off the highway, trying not to run into on coming traffic. All this under a PRIPAN systum. This lasted for years. It was the crazyest, most expensive highway systum in the world for its size. Now, its no longer that way, it took years for someone to figure out that it was pretty stupid and dangerous to have traffic flowing like that. So now, thou its still one of the most expensive highways in Mexico, and u still have those sections where your zooming along on streches of highways over 6mtrs in the air, not a segundo piso praytell, but, lumps of sands and rocks, place high enuff, so no one can get on, and then a road paved on it. That still exists, and u still get some odd cars or buses flying off that. Anyone form outside of Mexico, who would see this, would think, what in Gods name where they thinking? Well, PRIPAN thoughts. Thats why the PRD is such a threat to that way of thinking. Where the PRD runs things, its a change for the better, and a more logical way of doing things. Its a thrid way. Its not commie PeterN, to think outside of the mold. But thats the mentality that your stuck in, seeing everything in just 2 ways. The PRD falls outside of this way of doing things. Why is that so terrible? U cant label them commuinist, because they are not. Its not Cuba, or Chavez or North Korea, its Mexico, with a better way of doing things, than the old PRIPAN systum. Why is that so wrong? Why is that such a bad thing? When PRD people get caught doing bad things, they get kicked out. This does not happen in the PRIPAN systum. Its another way of doing things. A better way. Yet, all u have here are name calling, insults, and derogative statements, or calling someone a commie. Thats all u got to argue with. Thats so sad, because I bet, u are all decent ppl in your own world. But here, in the unworld of the net, u become frankensitens, and really bring out the worst in others. But am just really playing with U all, am not going to find anybody here. That is just a lark, and u all know that, am sure your all intelligent,Cept for the fact that u voted for FECAL, but its a free country. And its also free for AMLO and his supporter to demonstrate that their was something wrong in this election. My God, how can a country that makes intentional mistakes, like that highway I mentioned, not make a intentional mistake, to keep AMLO out of power? How hard is it to accept? From the looks of it here, mighty hard. Oh well, all we can do is try. And if the insults come, well, we have the right to hash them back. But we all know, where just having fun. I really hope so.

Kukiss,

You roar! This is some serious rant here.

mayaO, chiapaneca,valemadreand assorted psychos,

Kukiss is demonstrating some serious anger here. We need very few thousand of these firebrands to knock your woosy Lopista fervorosos. Watch and learn, mayaO this is real fire not Little Red Book "Lopitos told me so".

rodolfa, try your arguments around what I just posted, u cant can U? Just thougt I would ask.

Kukiss, I also invite u to argue about what I just posted. U cant can U? Its to be expected.

I invite everyone to take the time, to read it well, dont get all huffy and puffy, just clamly read along what I posted a couple of posts above. Think, then respond. Its would be nice for a change.

chiapaneca,

Heard the term FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Go make your New Cuba in N.Korea, melancolico echeverrista. You think people are going to tolerate that totalitarian garbage again?

You might like Stalin good times gulag re-educating. Take your really nice ideas and stuff them. Are you mentally retarded?

Go sell Clemente Serna your spiel. He'll love it.

sorry for all the spelling errors Jerry b, I type over 90wpm on the comp. I dont proofread well enuff. Again to all lo siento, its not on purpose.

maya0: I am sorry but I could get passed the second line of your long post. You are too predictable.
The zocalo already stinks. When are they going to clean it up?
What a dirty people!

Kukiss: Thanks a lot for the compliment. Where can I send you your check?

emptyboxes, well, i didnt expect much from u anyways. Your anti commie rants seem from another time. What? U havent heard? Its a new siglo, but your still stuck in the old. And i guess your just to bland to read something more intresting than your own tiny thoughts.

maya0: I voted for Felipe Calderon, he certainly doesn't look that oldie.
If this is a new siglo then what the hell are those marxist flags and those images of stalin and che guevara doing at the zocalo?
Why is Fidel Castro still the president of Cuba?
Why is Hugo Chavez yelling "Socialismo o Muerte!"?

Come on maya0, you guys are the ones stuck in the past. You haven't realized those socialist books are in the trash in the rest of the world, except for Cuba of course.

So there is a big debate in congress about the presence of the Army and the Estado Mayor Presidencial.

The PRD congressmen would like them to leave so they would have the chance to take congress by force with their porros from UNAM on September 1. Basically they want to take congress and stay there forever and create a constitutional crisis.

These imbeciles really think PAN and the President are so dumb as to let them have congress so that the lopezobradoristas can take it hostage.

What a bunch of losers.

Ceci: I was at the Zocalo this noon, and I refuse to believe what I saw...what a mess. I insist AMLO is a sick guy...he is a cookie and his own people is deserting him...I was chatting with a fellow who came from Tabasco, to support the "peje" because he really believed in him...not any more...he is leaving to his hometown to keep life as usual. He said to me: Andrés Manuel, has lost his touch and right now he is mad, watch that guy! he is crazy! do not pay attention to his "locuras", everyone at the camp is ready for getting back home...Mean time the city is converted in a ghost city...tourist population has diminished very drastically. Thanks God, the September festivities will take place under the supervision of the Army...the militars are fed up and ready to bring peace and calm to the city...Oaxaca will be straight in the next couple of weeks. Mean time the Tribunal will declare Calderon as elected President and AMLO will be forced to accept it, by his own deputies and senators, they have work to do you know? lots of it!

Viper,

What you advocate is a revolution in national political culture. By the look of the shenanigans in Oxaca and El Rayo Lopez in Mexico City, one hard obstacle to overcome.

Fox has allowed this to be so these ruffians act like viceroys with their respective state as their personal fiefdom.
As long as that important first requiremnt of the law applying to each one the same you have nothing but ageless platitudes and crooks getting away with murder. As long as magical blanket immunity from prosecution for our rulers is excersided the rest will be a failed effort because crooks will be crooks.

Fuero constitucional has to disappear and Authorities held accountable.

With government types guaranteed freedom from prosecution, everything else will take twice the effort.

A political class that cares for the people first and never for their own gain is quite a revolution.

The disgrace of el Zocalo and Encinas' errand boy servililism at Lopez' command is a flaunting example that no one cares about the law.

No revolution for the forseeable future.

rodolfo: I generally agree with you and appreciate your posts much.

You wrote:
"Fox has allowed this to be so these ruffians act like viceroys with their respective state as their personal fiefdom."

I believe that with the exception of the Supreme Court, the rest of the political players, including President Fox himself, were pretty much into unexplored territory in Mexico in these last six years.
How was supposed to be under the first fully democratically elected president of Mexico after seventy years of total presidential control and total obedience from Congress and Senate and all governors?

The times when Presidents put and take aways state governatures is gone. Echeverria, Lopez Portillo, De la Madrid and Salinas, all of them elected the governors and changed them as it fitted their political interests. Zedillo was perhaps more respectful and Madrazo was the first governor to refuse to be removed from power. The begining of the new times.

Today we must recognize that democracy is not completely settled in Mexico. Many states still lack democratic infrastructure but they are quickly advancing. Today any party can compete in any state. And the PRI is losing state governments every election.

But my point is that, based on these factors, the states must now be responsible for their own political stability, they must develop strong internal democratic institutions to help them settled their differences pacifically.

Our Presidential election only shows two of the Mexicos we live in. Two candidates from Tabasco with Cacique mentality, old and accustomed to have full control and obedience of their party. Two candidates form Mexico city, Campa representing a branch of the PRI and inheriting their some of its corporativism, another candidate, Mercado, representing a thinking and also sophisticated voter looking for a real change in politics, into a modern world, from the Bajio, Felipe Calderon, representing a young generation of Panistas with strong support from many conservatives and from northern Mexicans who are accustomed and reflect themselves in his party and ideology. This is of course some generalities and there are many exceptions. But I believe they reflect the societies they come from and this is only natural.
I believe President Fox must intervene at this point but we must also understand the historical political moment we find ourselves at now and President Fox is only being responsable. He knows these APPO people are allies of AMLO and are only provoking the Federal forces. AMLO and the PRD want to have some blood and stain the elections bad. So that there will be compelling reasons to annul the elections.
But that will not happen.

"Yet, all u have here are name calling, insults, and derogative statements"

OMG! My stomach hurts from laughing so hard, maya the exemplary citizen who doesn't name call, doesn't insult and doesn't use derogative statements. Maya, all that Chepo ice cream must have frozen your memory. Hey! I think I saw your picture in the paper, you're that guy that insulted Baloy at the Santos-Monterrey game, aren't you?

For those that might want to know a little more, that highway maya mentions was built under a PRI governor indeed and as long as Coahuila is governed by the PRI AND from Saltillo (the state capital) it won't get fixed because people from Saltillo are not interested in enabling the Region Lagunera as a competitor for the future. It is indeed as bad as he tries to describe it (if I didn't personally know this "highway", which is not private, it is a toll road, important difference, I wouldn't have understood half of what he said) and a big part of why it isn't fixed its because its not economically worth it because of the low volume of traffic. Oh, it happens to be 6 meters above the surrounding area because the area is a dried out lake bed. Every 20 years or so, the area will flood and the height is the only thing that will keep the road above water. The Aguanaval river has also flooded sections of the adjacent free road and locals have had to travel, free of charge, over the toll road, the only road above water.

Same for the DVR (Distribuidor Vial Revolucion), where the state and a PRI mayor gave out contracts to their friends. He just likes including the PAN cause he a hater, dog.

Maya also neglects to mention that the reason the PAN keeps winning Torreon and Lerdo is that they're doing a better job than the PRI and that the PRD's candidates... well... they suck. Torreon used to be a "carro completo" (everything but the kitchen sink) city for the PRI, now its a city that alternates power, just not with the PRD. As far as San Pedro de las Colonias goes... well... the PRD can keep it, its a violent little town.

Parras is also a small town, it lies in a valley surrounded by mountains and any expert will tell you that the best way to handle huge volumes of water that come by once every 20 to 30 years is not to build an expensive drainage system that will go unused for years on end. The best way is to respect the natural drainage routes and not build on top of them. I do not know for certain if this was the case in Parras, but for such a small town with a severe lack of resources, it seems a likely strategy.

This is not to say that the Region Lagunera is perfect, it suffers because the planners at the state capitals of Coahuila and Durango decided to keep the region an agricultural area, growing cotton as a cash crop. When Egypt started exporting cheaper cotton, the bottom fell out. Then they decided to make the area a textile center. When China started exporting cheaper clothes the bottom fell out. Maya has it right regarding the poverty aspect of the region, but it doesn't reach the levels of the deep south.

Finally, Maya, its a trap to ask somebody else to comment on local issue they know nothing about. Can you comment on the traffic situation in Santiago, Nuevo Leon, for example? Maybe the transparency problems in rural Nuevo Leon?

Have you fellows read about the UNAM professors and students and labor union leaders setting up a tent at the Planton to support their leader AMLO?

The students can all of them go to hell if they want to. I mean we the tax contributors of this nation finance their low tuition and we would prefer for them to spend the time at the library. But we dont give a damn anymore, eversince they took the Rectoria tower we lost all hope.

But The Professors? The damned professors?
And we already know they will not go to the Planton in their spare time, no sir. they will ask the institution to allow them to serve time in the Planton, in working hours, and the Mexican people will pay them.

And then what are we Panistas suppose to say about this respectable institution?

This is insane and we should stop funding this bunch of marxists good for nothing.
We could save some good money if we closed down the whole UNAM.

I am truly enjoying myself. How predictable. Galleta....zzzzzzzzzz... I agree Maya0 I would just ignore comments like that. I think people like galleta are useful in the sense they show the character of these antidemocratic right wingers.

Don't buy the I went to the Zocalo bla bla bla fantastic story. I think I read a chronic just like that in a Panista newspaper. Is this the new game? To invent stories that follow line by line Panista strategy? mmmm I am no Antonio Sola nor do I come from Spain but I can come up with something too...

I spoke to a lot of friends from the North and they are disgusted with Calderon. They cannot believe they were fooled with the TV spots and the telephone calls demonizing Lopez Obrador. They are for voto por voto and they think Fox is a traitor to democracy. They are all telling me you know Chiapaneco I think that coward Calderon must concede pronto, he is driving the country to social instability with his stubborness not to respect popular will. He knows he lost and that is why he never wanted a recount. We feel so embarrased by him, not even with the votes the PRI governors sold to Elba Esther was he able to beat Lopez Obradror. What a looser.

Enough for today... la hora del pueblo with a new juicy story on Dennise Mearker... who will remain standing up? it will be hard to find a replacement to lier Lopez Doriga whose ratings are free falling. Seems like Dennise keeps screaming there is no fraud. Yet she refuses to air some videos with evidence of fraud. (lahoradelpueblo.blogspot.com)

PASCistas in this blog are fake panistas. I refuse to believe Mercado has backers with so much hatred in them and who are so obsessed with demonizing Lopez Obrador. I cannot accept that progressives have more in common with the extreme catholic right than with the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion. I think these are Calderonistas trying to convince readers that Calderon's jargon has a broad coalition backing him has some truth to it. Not buying it. Have PASCista friends of my own. They dont agree with the PAN for one second, in fact they reject all the neoliberal policies the PAN supports. PASCistas are for change and the PAN is pan con lo mismo which is exactly what we don't want for this country.

It is the same with the "we have the majority lero lero" fib. The PAN does not have a majority in any of the houses of Congress. A majority is 50% plus one and the PAN does not have that. Not even close. The strategy is to convince panistas that if they "won" the houses they also "won" the presidency. WRONG. They did not win anything. No majority in Congress and no majority in the votes for president, not even with the help of Elbista PRI governors. Sorry folks.

And now Felipe Calderon is charismatic? oh my... the lies these people tell... I thought not even Panistas bought that. In fact, the fact that they spent millions of pesos in an agressive negative campaign in TV, emails and phonecalls, to demonize Lopez Obrador proves their lack of faith in their grey candidate. He had nothing to give. He turned to breed hate as the only way to pick up some votes so fraud would not be so blatant. Sad and irresponsible to divide Mexicans so. Now the whole country has to pay the consequences of their wanting to win no matter the cost, not even at the expense of democracy and respect for the votes.

Freedom of expression is one thing. Intervention in the political affairs of Mexico while you live here as a foreigner is not. Rant is allowed. Intervention is not. If this guy gave a cent to the Calderon campaign that's a violation of the law.

You don't like the law and you are Mexican, go lobby your congressman and change it if you can. You are a foreigner and don't like it? renounce your nationality, become Mexican and do the same. Otherwise, no butting in. No voting and no aiding political campaigns.

You don't have arguments. What you support is wrong and antidemocratic. Everytime reason corners you you choose to engage in the stalin-mao-castro-chavez psycho babble. It's OLD. And tiresome. Drop it.

This is not a game in which you can weasle your way out with some naufrago story or criticism of Evo Morales sweaters.

This is a question of survival for many Mexicans whose needs have been ignored by the governments for too long. It's time for change and it's time for a new deal. It's time to share the country and change the way it's governed so all are taken into account. People believed in democracy, believed in the power of their vote. You are not taking that away from them. Not so easily pal.

The retarded comment? no comment here, I guess there is some truth to annoying children should be seen not heard. Grow up.

chiapaneca,

Heard the term FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Go make your New Cuba in N.Korea, melancolico echeverrista. You think people are going to tolerate that totalitarian garbage again?

You might like Stalin good times gulag re-educating. Take your really nice ideas and stuff them. Are you mentally retarded?

Go sell Clemente Serna your spiel. He'll love it.

Posted by: rodolfo | August 23, 2006 09:36 PM

Emptyboxes wrote:
"So there is a big debate in congress about the presence of the Army and the Estado Mayor Presidencial.

The PRD congressmen would like them to leave so they would have the chance to take congress by force with their porros from UNAM on September 1. Basically they want to take congress and stay there forever and create a constitutional crisis."

Suppose that AMLO became president. And, further suppose that Congress, dominated by the PAN (supported by enough PRIistas and others to give them a working majority) refuses to enact his proposals, and starts investigating people like Camacho Solis for corruption. Further suppose that, by pure coincidence, some CGH or Atenco nutcases decide to "tomar" congress because "the people" are outraged. Does anybody here think that AMLO would stop it?

Chiapaneco, you have not answered my question. Should the United States and other countries (Canada) where there is a significant ammount of Mexican citizens adopt an article 33 type of law and ban dual citizenship?

Empty Boxes, thanks for the check offer,
But I think Maya would need it better,
As AMLO would be unemployed very soon,' due to his lack of Education and work skills. :)
This is why AMLO is so desperate, he does not know better then trying to be on power, because without it, AMLO has no more chance to keep stilling from the Mexicans, as he did before. Especially earning a huge salary as a government politician.
Because Maya if you are so intelectual, Can you tell us here,
How Much your Heroe AMLO makes per month??
Do you have any idea?
Or you also believe that he is protesting without getting paid??
If Maya wants to believe in him, It will be good that Maya gets two jobs and contributes to his soon coming unemployment check and his urgent physiquiatric doctor's appointments.
Like it or not!!!!MAYA AND CHIAPANECO,
MEXICO WOULD CONTINUE TO BE A DEMOCRAT COUNTRY, A COUNTRY THAT WOULD CONTINUE WITH GOOD INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, AND HIS FREEDON.
(AS HAVENT YOU THOUGHT THAT AMLO CAN PROHIBIT FROM USING THE INTERNET AND YOU LOSE YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH??

FELIPE CALDERON IS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF MEXICO. FELIPE CALDERON IS WHAT MEXICO VOTED FOR!!!!
The people that believes in Calderon, really believe in him.
NOT LIKE the people that follow AMLO,
They follow because they expect something in return, either to get paid to follow him, or to obtain some personal gain, promised by his political party.

Enrique Moreno and Empty Boxes, I insist
I agree with your thoughts,
Especially with thanking GOD that the military would allow the September Festivities to take place in Mexico.
The Mexicans that are real democrats want to celebrate the patriotic dates with peace and order!!!!

How droll... talk to the galleta monster she gets you... the topic of this blog is the Mexican elections. It is a clear lack of arguments and reason that makes people bring other countries laws and policies for the sake of creating drama.

One word: sovereignty, the claim of every state to full self-governance. It's up to the citizens of those countries and not up to me, a foreigner, to decide if they want an Article 33 in their Constitution. In Mexico there IS an Article 33 and those who violate it are violating the Constitution.

Buenas noches.

Maya0, galleta left you a question:

"Because Maya if you are so intelectual, Can you tell us here,
How Much your Heroe AMLO makes per month??"

Uh? I kinda feel sorry for Calderon when I read something stuff like this. He and his corporate cronies did spend millions of dollars on a smear campaign to demonize Lopez Obrador. This proved to be effective with some segments of the population who are terribly lacking in democratic conviction and did not take the trouble to confirm rumors spread.

Nevermind, with supporters and publicists like galleta I am not surprised Calderon was not able to convince enough voters to win the election fair and square.

"PASCistas in this blog are fake panistas. I refuse to believe Mercado has backers with so much hatred in them and who are so obsessed with demonizing Lopez Obrador. I cannot accept that progressives have more in common with the extreme catholic right than with the Proyecto Alternativo de Nacion. I think these are Calderonistas trying to convince readers that Calderon's jargon has a broad coalition backing him has some truth to it. Not buying it. Have PASCista friends of my own. They dont agree with the PAN for one second, in fact they reject all the neoliberal policies the PAN supports. PASCistas are for change and the PAN is pan con lo mismo which is exactly what we don't want for this country."

Chiapaneco, maybe your PASCistas friends didn't actually know what Patricia Mercado stands for. Have you ever been to the party's webpage? Did you see the debates? Patricia Mercado does support free trade, private investment (not privatization) of Pemex and CFE. That's a very different position from AMLO's old fashioned statism and nationalism. Patricia Mercado, in the other hand, does support equality for the minorities, for indians, homosexuals, disabled people. The PASC also supports a stronger welfare state. All the stuff aboved mentioned have been completely ignored by AMLO. The PASC doesn't believe there was a fraud. The PASC have always trusted in our institutions and in the TRIFE and is willing to respect its ruling, whichever that might be. The PRD is going to do that? I seriously doubt it. I want, from the bottom of my heart, a left wing government for my country. But AMLO was never an option to me. What you call "hatred" towards AMLO, in reality, is deception and anger to me. Deception because he has declared himself a left wing candidate, when he is not, and he has used all the capital that committed mexican leftist have so hardly earned for a personal cause, which is his obvious lust for power. Anger because he has trashed institutions like the IFE with "evidence" of a "fraud" when there was none; he has disrupted social peace and he has lied to many many people, taking advantage of their despair for a personal cause. He is not a social fighter for me, he is not a true leftist nor he has ever been. He is an opportunist, that's all.

It is funny how AMLO supporters call every other leftist who doesn't support Peje traitors, panistas in desguise, catholic right wingers. I'm not catholic, I've never been baptised. I'm an atheist. I'm not a panista and I have never been one. I'm not a right winger either. But I guess that in AMLO's black and white world everyone who's not with him is against him. Everyone who's not a pejista is immoral and corrupted. He would have been some veeeery open-minded and tolerant president... right? I don't think so.

Bunburina, I guess it's hard for many to accept they have been wrong or they hold prejudices. I agree with the PASC agenda and I voted for AMLO what does that make of me? As I have said before if Mexico had a two person ticket I would have liked for Mercado to join AMLO.

I believe AMLO might not qualify as a full-credentials leftist to all but he is a progressive nonetheless in the sense that he promotes change and not more of the same. I lived in Mexico City and he was my major. I thought he did a pretty good job at governing the city, much better than the priista regentes before him. Results speak for themselves, Ebrard won with a huge margin, how's that for democratic accountability!

Have you read and studied the Proyecto Alternativo de Nación? AMLO never opposed private investment. What he opposed was crony capitalism and impunity which are bad for our country as a whole. What he proposed was more social investment which is terribly needed in a country with gross inequalities. What he promised was a cabinet where women would take half of the positions. A government that would make poverty erradication its top priority.

Before the Washington Post jumped on the bandwagon of the smear campaign this paper published a piece on which they compared AMLO to FDR. Have you read about FDR? I guess he was a bit of a revolutionary too :) Nonetheless, he is remembered as one of the best presidents of the United States who was able to lift the country out of the Depression.

Is it intolerance to denounce fraud? On another post I stated that Alternativa did not have sufficient representation at the polls, nor at the recount of the acts. Mistakes in the acts harmed Alternativa too, did you know that? Would you have wanted your vote to be erased or to count as less because of people introducing more than one ballot?

I can see that it might not be good politics for Mercado to enter the post-electoral conflict. But still, the stakes are not high for her. We are convinced AMLO won and that fraud was committed to impose Calderon. Would you have protested if that was Mercado's case? I think you would have, I think you would have fought to the last against the imposition.

What I cannot explain to myself is why a PASCista would engage in AMLO hate-speech if not as victim of a rightist ploy to divide progressive forces which are the majority in this country. I dont get this virulencia and agressiveness. I simply don't.

emptyboxes,

Man, you are one loco prophet:

http://www.nuevoexcelsior.com.mx/Excelsior/macros/GenericNewsWithPhoto.jsp?contentid=12686&version=1

http://pacocalderon.net/xoops/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1731&cid=96

bunburina: They only clever politician these days is Patricia Mercado.
I was listening to Jose Cardenas yesterday and heard how she said first that the president was wrong on declaring a winner and that we all should wait for the TRIFE and then that the President should order the Army to either carry out their military parade on another place or not to do it at all, and the same for the Grito, she said it was better for the Fox to do it in Dolores or somewhere else.
She said something wise: Don't carry out the Desfile if this people stand on the way, they will pay for their mistakes, the people will either reward them or punish them.

That's what I liked most about her expression, to let the people see who opposses the Desfile and Fiestas Patrias, who wants to create trouble. And that the President and the Army should be humble enough not to fall into provocations.

It's the only wise voice these days.

Mexicans and Americans Thinking Together, a non-profit foundation, compiles news on the Mexican election and immigration at www.MATT.org and through its blog at http://mexicanosyamericanos.blogspot.com/

We have a post from last night about Calderon's plan to add $5.5 billion in additional social spending.

mayaO,

Don't hate Calderon because he's beautiful. He also has brains.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aRRnNgtgYbtE

"Cartoon arguments" alright, because saying that because he knows a PASCista or two that then EVERY single PASCista must be exactly like the one he knows is NOT a cartoon argument. He who knows a guy or two from "the north" (the north for him stars, oh well, somewhere around Puebla, since he's in Chiapas) so then EVERYONE from the north must think like those friends of his. Since some PANistas are religio