In following the posts to previous discussions, I have noted with interest that those who favor Lopez Obrador critize the Washington Post as conservative lackeys of the wealthy and Beltline toadies, whereas the Calderon supporters express displeasure at The Post's leftist slant.

The Post ran a series of articles a month or so back on how partisan are our thought processes are. Maybe you ought to post a link to those articles here.

That being said, when you report the PRD's strong presence in the Mexican legislative bodies, you might also point out that PAN has a much greater number of legislators. What little I've been able to make out about the process of determining who gets what appointments and duties within the legislative bodies, it seems that PAN has gathered sufficient support from other parties to effectively backbench the PRD up to this point.

TEPJF; la elecion no fue limpia, pero vale.
translation
Electoral court; the election wasnt clean, but its valid

That pretty much sums it all up.

You're right, maya0. The President, the Entrepreneurial Coordinating Council violated electoral law... but just a little bit.

What is most ironic about ALMO's claims of electoral fraud is that his party got its best-ever showing in the legislature. So the fraud was only against him personally, and not against his party? Come on. His claims of fraud are self-contradictory and self-serving. International monitors praised the election of July 2 for its transparency and fairness. His wild claims of fraud are undermining the institutions, established by Fox's predecessor and carefully nurtured by the Fox government for the last six years, that have made fair elections possible.

A recount wasnt allowed, only a partial one, then the whole thing went to the courts, and then the court delcared a president.

Am I not writing about Mexico, but what happen in USA 2000 elections.

But AMLO is no Gore, hes not going away, nor are his supporters.

"Se que los ricos y los poderosos ni sienten ni procuran las desgracias de los pobres"
"Los Mexicanos en ves de doblarse deben redoulblar sus esfuerzos para liberase de sus tiranos. Asi seran dignos de ser libres y respetables, porque asi deberan su gloria a sus propios esfuerzos."
Benito Juarez
translation
"I know that the rich and the powerfull, neither feel nor care about the disgraces of the poor"
"Mexicans, instead of bowing down, should redouble their efforts to liberate themselves of their tyrants. That way dignifing themselves to be free and respected, because they would owe their glory to their own efforts."
Benito Jurazez

Oaxaca is rising.......

pasilla, maya, while I do acknowledge troubling issues in the ruling, it has to be said that the fraud part of the ruling is not in doubt, there was no "well, there was a little fraud here and there but not enough". What I'm driving at is that the only part of AMLO's arguments, the PREP, the IFE, Ugalde, Fox, CCE, fraud, etc, etc, etc that was not dismissed outright (or corrected, like in the case of anulled stations) were those 2: Fox and CCE. That's a pretty bad batting %

pasilla,

The election contests are called CAMPAIGNS as in war campaigns. Ever hear the frase "politics is a continuation of war by other means".

You lost this one because the other guy used anything and everything to win, short of murder and rape. Let's not be prissy about tactics and strategies.

Lopez waged an apallingly illegal 4 year plus campaign free of charge, courtesy his early morning press conferences, day in day out for more than 4 years. His little rooster's feathers, his wagging finger, his nation-wide self love advertising about the "City of Hope" and HIS titanic public works.

The guy is a pathetic weasel and a shameless manipulator. He's no Gandhi, more like a snake oil salesman.

Now he talks of becoming People's COMMISSAR! Is this major B.S. or what.

I posted this on the past blog, I'll post it in here again.

All you guys are complaining about the TRIFE's acknowledgement of irrgularities like Fox's intervention and and the spots by the CCE. The TRIFE didn't consider them determining on the election for one reason alone: the TRIFE trusts in the voters' freedom and intelligence.

You all pro-AMLO supporters think that people is retarded, right? That some spots on tv are going to change their intention to vote. That if Maribel Guardia in her TV show says she's going to vote for Calderón a lot of dumb sheep is going to follow. That if president Fox say that everything is wonderful in Mexico, 4 million brainless people is going to buy it.

The TRIFE believes, and I'm with them on this, that people is smart, they have thought their vote, they made a decision and no one put a gun to their head to make them vote for Felipe Calderón. There was no fraud. Simply, 200 000 people liked Calderón better than AMLO and in a democracy elections are won by one single vote. Would you like to know where are all those votes AMLO supposedly "lost" on July 2? Why don't you check out on the PASC where a lof ot modern and moderate leftist (myself included), tired of AMLO's anarchic antics, set their hopes for the future.

AMLO is the one who failed to convince people. AMLO is the one that failed to develop a better political campaign, the one who chose not to be at the first debate. AMLO is the only one responsible for his party's loss. Stop blaming it on anything that moves.

Obrador's antics buried the left for at least a generation. As a conservative, this was fun to watch, even if it wasn't my country. I do feel sorry for the Mexican people because they had to learn the hard way that the left cares only about getting more power.

In this case, Keith, it wasn't necessarily the left, just faux left fascism based on a personality cult. A forward thinking left will have nothing to do with a soviet-era ideology, such as AMLO's. Have you seen the Stalin/Lenin/Castro, etc. photos in the zócalo? That's not a coincidence.

Keith,

If you read the ranting of other Campaign Conexion Ceci blog postings, we Mexicans also had a lot of fun. Politics in Mexico haven't been this fun since the end of the revolution in the early 1920s.

What we are all seeing and discussing is democracy as advertised. We had to read about this kind of madness in political battles from other countries.

Mexico is becoming grown-up politically and this is how it looks to us and to outsiders. Remember USA elections 2000?

I don't know if it was fun for you, the rest of the world was mesmerized by your hanging chads and the Court battles.

K. Vronna, you are totally NUTS if you are comparing AMLO to Stalin/Lenin/Castro

You are one of those SMART people who did not buy into that cheap PAN propaganda, are you?

I'd better compare Felipe Calderon to Zedillo who was another moron and puppet for the system.

No, Sr. FECAL, I'm not comparing AMLO to Stalin/Lenin/Castro; after all they did come to rule their respective countries. BTW, is your name a gesture of reconciliation?

K.Vronna,

Mr. poopy is stating the material nature, origin, quality and texture of HIS aspirational aspersions.

FECAL: I did buy all the propaganda from the PAN. And AMLO has shown how right the PAN was at labeling him a danger for Mexico.

Just look at the guy speaking in a monologue at his "Informative Assembly". I have never seen an assembly like that one in my life, only AMLO or one of his officers speaks. Nobody in the crowd ever disagrees. It is pathetic. I cannot imagine this lunatic running our country.

So, K. Vronna, if you are not comparing AMLO to Lenin or Stalin... what is your point? Is it OK to show a picture of Marx? How about a movie of Che Guevara, with Gael?

emptyboxes:

Notwithstanding PAN propaganda (that bunburina claims was useless, although very expensive), the TRUE imminent dangers for Mexico are pervasive poverty and income inequality. Nothing you care about, mind you, but the poor are becoming impatient...

Pasilla, if the poor are becoming impatient, why didn't more of them vote for AMLO?

Also, Pasilla, not that we would care, of course, but, why are the states ruled by the PRD like Chiapas, Zacatecas and Guerrero poor and getting poorer, while states ruled by the PAN like Baja California or Jalisco are (relatively) rich, and getting richer? Another sign of a massive "complo"?

Rodolfo:

I have done something better than hear the phrase: I have read Sun-Tzu. Based on your ideas, I fear the Americanization of Mexican politics, with PAN resorting to paid scoundrels like Dick Morris. I don't want that for my country. On the other hand, are you suggesting that politicians should not built roads, not talk about it, because it can be used for campaign purposes? Interesting logic.

Jerry B:

I don't know why about 200 thousand more poor people didn't vote for AMLO, out of the more than 50 million... Do you? Some of them perhaps don't even understand what voting is all about...

Mexico has continued being poor for the last six years, governed by PAN. After the "complo" to crown Felipe I (that even the TEPJF couldn't summarily dismiss), will it continue being poor?

FUNNY PAPERS:

http://www.cnd.org.mx/

pasilla,

The real scoundrel is Mr. Lopez. He lost, he had a fit and won't back down. He is a sorry loser that won't concede or shut up.

Enjoyed the front-pager today.

More at http://mexicanosyamericanos.blogspot.com

Pasilla, I wasn't aware that 50 million people voted for AMLO. According to my numbers, slightly less than 15 million voted for him, and a whopping 35 million, including many who are poor, voted against him. Maybe the poor are too stupid to be allowed to vote, after all, Fidel doesn't let them.

And the reason Mexico has "continued being poor" is the direct legacy of 70 years of failed, inward looking and corrupt economic policies, union movements, and parasitic state enterprises. All of which AMLO wishes to preserve.

The fact that we export a million or so poor a year to the United States worries me very much. Because, believe it or not, I care about them. The poor, not a charismatic leader who is trying to create a personality cult amongst them. I think it is high time Mexico gave real capitalism, not the crony capitalism or psuedo socialism preached by AMLO and his ex PRIista soulmates, but the kind of capitalism that has made the Anglo Saxon nations the richest in the world, and Chile the richest nation in Latin America. Why not try something new?

Jerry B:

At this point in time I'm not surprised about your misreading of statements, your boring repetition of slogans like "real capitalism" (whatever that means...). Isn't by chance Bachelette a Socialist? Just asking...

I wrote:

"I don't know why about 200 thousand more poor people didn't vote for AMLO, out of the more than 50 million..."

Where in this statement I wrote that 50 million people voted for AMLO? I'm talking about the more than 50 million of poor people who barely survive in Mexico. Of course those poor Mexicans didn't appear during the Fox administration; but the number didn't budge in the past six years, and Felipe I will dutifully follow the neo-liberal policies that have been so successful in creating millionaires. You're right: why not try something else?

By the way, the whole population of Chile is probably less than Mexico City's. I'm not so sure that your comparison is valid...

rodolfo:

Why the rage? Wasn't Felipe I crowned by the TEPJF? Everything should be hunky dory now, shouldn't it?

Felipe I might need a pager, AMLO has got a strong voice to go around the Pinos residence calling on Vazquez Mota or Murillo. And he does not need to dress like a pager, he already looks like one!

Jerry B.- You are asking: if the poor are becoming impatient, why didn't more of them vote for AMLO?

if you are such an expert on Mexican matters and really known the poor people of Mexico, then you should know that a vast majority has the mentality of "Pa que? ... si todo sigue igual" meaning that the system loves throwing garbage via TV so people remain clueless with apathy thinking their Vote will NOT change a thing ... and guess what? THEY ARE RIGHT because we have the GREAT institutions who just served well to the party in power.
Yes, millions of people did not vote because they DON'T EXPECT MIRACLES neither from PAN or PRD or PRI.

emptyboxes, sure AMLO is the devil himself, I heard somebody from PAN saw that 666 mark right out of his Tanates. Because regardless of how hard all you proPAN try to make him look like a maniac, the guy has exactly what the rest of PANistas lack: HUEVOS!!!

Mr. Poopy,

It's HONKY dory, if I may say so.

Fook, rodolfo, my mistake! Has a firing squad from the language police been already convened for me?

I'm just happy that most Mexicans are still reasonable enough to back away from Obrador when he gets really crazy. Rich, poor, or the re-emerging middle classes.

Thank goodness that Fox could at least influence the budget, monetary policy, and keep a lot of other things stable. Even if the PRD and PRI used block growth mesaures. Welcome PRI, to the new Mexico where you don't rule everything, glad to see the PRI is against Obrador's craziness and for trying something new.

Thank goodness Obrador is as crazy as Hugo Chavez but that we Mexicans have become smarter than the Venezuelans so we didn't go blindly voting for AMLO by a huge majority. Just having fun here, I know there are a lot of smart Venzuelans who are now being opressed by Chavez and his all-powerful party. At least til gas prices drop and they get overthrown... heaven knows elections aren't expected to be enough to remove a man like Chavez (or AMLO) who respects no laws.

Remember when Fox had charges dropped against AMLO so he could run without breaking the law? AMLO again wanst the laws to be bent in his favor. He wants a total recount despite the laws requiring proof of fraud in all voting stations. He did not even make that claim. His people got recounts off all the ones they had at least some potential legitimacy to complain of. But he says screw the laws, recount everything he wants.

Now AMLO says screw the government, he's starting his own. That is a traitor. The law has ways of punishing such traitors. Let it be the police of the millitary if he truly starts stealing tax money away frm a government that already assists the poor. He will use his money to help his campaign first and the poor are second at best. How pathetic.

Once MALO has been defeated by legal mexican instances, let say the biggest mistakes of MALO´s campaign, probably due to ommittion, misconceive or discrimination.
MISTAKE NUMBER 1).- Most of our mexican citizens, lets say bacause they were born here in our country, do not have IFE identification, and why people do not have it?, easy answer: they do not need it to get paid, they are not considered in the healthy care system IMSS, probably most of them do not know how to write or read, then do not expect them requesting for one IFE ID. Just think how many people are in these conditions in Mexico, thousands maybe millions, but the worst is Lopez speech always says "I know the great poverty conditions of our people", and does he really know it? mmmm too bad for him and shame on him!!!, saying he knows those conditions and then he really and in fact betrayed them because he did nothing for them before the election time. Just consider how many mexicans abroad could not accomplish and get the possibility to vote due to lack of IFE ID.
MISTAKE NUMBER TWO).- Did Lopez go to universities to talk with the mexican youth? No he did not, again shame on him!!! He never went to speak with the new citizen with the right to vote, he disclaimed them. He always disclaimed debate with the mexican youth, bad for him beacuse all of them already had the IFE ID for any procedure.
MISTAKE NUMBER 3).- Lopez refused to go to the first debate, again shame on him !!! how a good sportman or sportwoman would refuse to play a match just beacuse he or she considers hiemself or herself better than the other player and then request winning the game. The same is for a student who doesn´t appears in the examination time because he considers himself with enough knowledge in order to desclaime the test. Only quiters and loosers do that. Only cheaters could think that way. If you have to demostrate your knowledge and your skills you go to anywhere without any scare. Lopez was deadly scary and it was his fatal mistake.

After those mistakes, what Lopez has to say on his favour, just cry and claim for conspiracy. Only looser do that. Again drawn by his own words.
The very better for him is to dissapear and leave the country for a while before his hipnotized fans wake up and then realize and face the ugly and raw reality of his idol.
Lopez anytime do anything for the poors he always look for himself and the dummy socialist party fellows who eat at McDonads take coffe at Starbucks and wear Levy´s jeans and drive a Lincoln Vagoner and sent their son or daughter to a PRIVET school, but they say "I am very socialist",
shame on them!!!
So thanks for your competition in this 2006 election time and better luck for nextime socialist gays. That´s all folks.

eljefejesus:

Pathetic? Your ranting is pathetic. Show me something new that you are talking about. Stale rhetoric, no more. More than fifty million Mexicans who didn't vote for Felipe I are irrational, according to your twisted perception.

In his (her?) superb post, calabazinha points toward a critical issue: it is a lot easier to demonize an individual than to confront organic social and economic problems. Welcome to the new Mexico of citizens willing to demand solution to the problems of the majority, opposite to governments subservient of the never-ending demands of the soulless capital...

The nation of Congo, formerly Zaire, has a upcoming presidential run off eleciton.

The Congo, in the heart of Africa has a better democratic process than so advance Mexico.

The PRD will be pushing for a runoff election, if needed, for the next presidential election.

Because FECAL has almost 70percent of the voters who participated, voting against him.

If backward Africa can have run off elections, then Super advance Mexico deserves it also. FOX b4 the election, talked about the neeed for runoffs. Since he knew that dirty tricks would be used, and that FECAL was going 2 apear 2win by a hair. The mention of a runoff b4 the election, and the probale need four one, in the near future, was very sneaky.
(Wonder if that was Dick Morris idea).

Thats why a full recount could never be allowed. It would have bought the whole house of cards down.

Any guess´s on when they burn these ballot boxes?

JerryB

U know how U always bring up that the north is so much richer, than the south, is so messed up poor etc etc etc?
And how that because of the PAN in the north, their so much richer, etc etc etc?

Ever wonder where all the most famous rich narcos live? What states? If the south was next to the biggest consumer of drugs on the planet earth, would that some how help make them less poor?

Narco Inc. in the north, with its southern branches, is the number one money maker, in all of Mexico.

Makes U wonder who lets them run amock?
It aint AMLO and his ppl thats for damm sure.

Oh and pls dont mention acapulco as some prime example of PRD link 2 narcos, pls, thats just fiilbustering.

maya0

If Fox new that dirty tricks were going to be used, why did he only allow Calderon to win by a hair? Surely if this was all planned they could have "fixed" a much larger margin. Please explain.

maya0, I don't think that a run off would be on the best interest for the PRD. If there was a run off today, guess who will win? Calderón by 54%. AMLO would only get 22%. That's what the polls have shown.

And don't get me wrong. Although I believe that run offs are very expensive, in cases like this, with such a narrow margin between the two leading candidates, I think it should be done. It would clarify things. But in our situation, the only thing to clarify would be the smashing victory of Calderón over AMLO. And there would be no fraud... just that regular people are tired of AMLO's anarchic antics. That's all.

PeterN

How could a landslide win by FECAL be possible in a country where in the south, the majority of mexicans live?

Sononra, for example, the 2nd biggest state of Mexico, has all of 2million people. Whats that? A small delegation in Mexico City? A win by FECAL by just a hair would be easier to explain, but just dont allow a recount of all the votes. Because if dirty tricks are to be effective, only a bit could be allowed to squeak by. A landslide by FECAL would have been imposible to explain, but by a eyelash, much more probable.
But a full recount of all the votes would have bought to light the whole enchilada.
So a partial recount was allowed, that shaved some off FECAL´s lead, but not enuff to endanger him.
A full recount, ballot box by ballot box, all 41millon votes, inspected, recounted, whould have blown the whole show. And the PAN, FECAL, their supporters know this.
The whole world,"pensante" the thinking masses, know this. U cant put a bag over this. Anyone in the world outside of Mexico, is shown this, and they agree, well its Mexico, what do u expect?

maya0

So are you saying that if Calderon were to have won with no "fixes", it would have only been by a small majority?

As for counting all the ballot boxes, well in the ones chosen by MALO where he believed he would get the biggest reversal, it worked out he gained less than a half vote per cassila. Considering many places in the south had no votes for PAN (allegedly), how many would he have gained there?

MALO does not want a run-off election, he would lose. MALO does not want a re-election with all original candidates in it again, because he would get many less votes from those who voted for him first time around. MALO wants to be president, and to hell with anything that gets in his way.

The fact is he lost.

bunburina
With almost 70percent not even voting for FECAL on july 2nd, what makes u think they would all vote for him in a runoff?
AMLO would win hands down on in a runoff.

See, a runoff is not possible by law, fox and everybody knows this. Its not possible this election cycle. Only in the future. Thats, why he mentioned it.

A plan b, because the desafuero didnt work out. So the PAN and co. cooked up what happen on july 2nd. A hair breath win by FECAL. So close that ppl would complain.
Which happen. People took to the streets. And they even talked about a runoff election. But a runoff isnt allowed by law for this election. Dont u get it?

The key was the usage of the word "segunada vuelta" by FOX b4 the election. It was a planted word. With advisors like Dick Morris and god knows who else, ex cia ppl perhaps, the PAN had all the goodies at its hand to use against AMLO. "The desafuero didnt work out, lets try plan b. then", because AMLO would never be allowed to win the presidency. No matter if the election has to be stolen from him. No way was he going to be allowed to get federal power. Am sure theirs a plan C. out their to have had him killed, if somehow a full recount were allowed, and he was found to have won, which of course he did.

This AMLO movement, is looking more and more like a civil rights movement, in protection of true Mexican democracy. Instead of going away, AMLO and his supporters, are creating a new civil rights movement. Its going to be a great six years fighting the good fight, by only peacefull legal means. A modern day Gandhi, our own Martin Luther King, AMLO.

Hey, its not are fault, we only wanted him to be president. Now FECAL and their supporters, have made so much more out of him. Hes going to be a constant thron in FECAL´s skin these next 6years. By 2012, if their needs be a runoff, because nobody wins the majority,thanks to the PRD, it will be on the books. And AMLO wont be no Cardenas, and lose his 2nd time around, nope, he will win bigger than what he won this time. Instead of 6 years of AMLO, u have won yourself 12.
All Panistas take right hand, clench in fist and pound on chest, (just like in church) and say, "por mi culpa, por mi gran clupa".

I wonder if some of you spend a little time READING, REALLY READING the postings. What maya0 was talking about was PRD proposing the incorporation of the possibility of a runoff election in Mexican electoral law. Who's talking about a runoff election between AMLO and Calderon? If the wimps of the TEPJF refused to recount all votes on legalistic grounds, how a runoff election can be held in the absence of a clear legal possibility?

PeterN:

Have you given a little thought to the mantra that only small variations in number of votes were detected in the partial recount? It's beyond me the train of thought followed by the TEPJF: If the difference between original votes and those in the recount was lower that the difference between the leading candidates, the discrepancy was deemed irrelevant to the final result of the election. To my mind it is like saying: "the parts don't have any influence on the whole." If discrepancies were present (more or less votes than those recorded), results from that polling station were suspect and should be annulled. And now, once again, legalism trumps certainty, ballots will be burn and we will never know the truth. What a transparent election! Ugalde was to Felipe I what Pio Marcha was to Agustin I...

Continue to play confused, but am sure u do understand. FECAL could not win by a landslide, the only way dirty tricks would work, in FECALs case, is to make it look like he won by a slim margin. A eyelash.
Since theirs no runn off in Mexico, no 51 percent majority win, no problemo. FECAL could appear to win by just a tiny bit. Had their been a runnoff election, he would have lost easy, almost 70percent of Mexicans who voted, voted against him. But since no run off elections exsit in Mexico, no promblem. In case of demonstrations, allow only a tiny recount, which of course did show dirty tricks, but not enuff 2 change the election. A full recount could never be allowed. Thats why FECAL and all the PANistas and FOX, where dead set against it. It would have blown their story. Get it now?

Where is the power of the PRD? Their congressmen can't get any positions in Congress and have to accept the crumbs left to them by the PAN. Why? Aren't they suppose to be very good politicians?

Their radicalism is getting them isolated while the PAN and PRI are having a pic-nic in Congress. The show they did last Friday served the purpose of denigrating the cause they claim to defend. PAN and PRI rule in the houses and Felipe Calderon is already receiving visits from the leaders of PVEM, PANAL, Alternativa and Convergencia is also getting closer.

Today in Congress while Zermeño announced the issuing of the Bando Presidencial the PRD and PT Congressmen abandoned the place, where was Convergencia?

These are the most stupid congressmen I have ever seen, they have absolutely no power to change any laws or block any reforms and yet they want to change the Constitution and impose their agenda on congress. What a bunch of idiots.

We will see how much fun PAN will have passing all reforms he wants because he is a real politician, he offers and concedes and courteously negotiates, and he has a power position, on the other side, AMLO and PRD continually threaten all other parties not to accept any negotiation but they offer nothing.

PeterN | September 7, 2006 04:53 PM

That looked like you posting under my name maya0, You´ve been refered to the rules of this blog enough times.

This time I am reporting it.

FELIPE CALDERON BIO

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/06/news/calderon.php

pasilla,

We miss your stoic 70's retro nationalism.

Please sign up at orellana's.

http://arielorellana.net/forums/

maya0

No, I don´t get it.

From what I understand you are starting (MALO like) from the position that there was fraud, and then trying to explain any possibility of a Calderon victory to fit with that.

If he gets a large victory, no one would believe it.

If he gets a small victory, it was because it was already set up.

According to you there is no way Calderon could win, just as according to MALO there is no way he could have lost.

And by the way, don´t use commie word play, it´s not true that 65% (not 70%) of the popultion voted AGAINST Calderon, 65% did not vote FOR him, is the correct interpretation of the facts. But when has that ever bothered fanatics. By your own argument a larger proportion DID NOT vote for MALO.

Several of you point out that over 70% voted against Calderon, so how could he win in a landslide. Simple: 70% also voted "against" Lopez Obrador. Since the election, Lopezd Obrador has certainly lost favor with some of those who voted for him the first time.

PeterN
sorry, i meant that last post of mine directed to u and instead posted your name!

Anyways, its very simple, FECAL and AMLO couldnt do any run off election, because its not allowed by law. FOX mentioning b4 the election that it would be a good idea to have a law allowing run off eletctions for future election is suspect.

Dirty tricks where cooked up against AMLO with the desfuero, the Aumada thing, where everyone didnt believe AMLO about the plot against him. Aumada later confrim there was a plot.

Plan A. didnt work, so plan B. was all ready to go. Thats why the key is in Fox mentioning the need for run off elections.
Why? Did he already know what was going to happen? That FECAL would have a slim lead over AMLO? That people wouldnt like it, so he talks about a run off, knowing full well that it cannot happen for this election?
Suspect. Very fishy, like all that was related to this election. Where was FECAL going to get a landslide majority, when the northern states that would vote for him, are mostly empty states. Sonora for example has only 2million people. Its the 2nd largest state in territory, not people.

So a landslide couldnt have been explain away. Only by inventing a tiny percentage more for FECAL than AMLO, could the win be explain away, as it has. But no allowing for a full recount could ever be permited. The whole fraud would have been exposed.

So a tiny percentage of ballots where counted, and it did reduce FECALs numbers.
But not enuff to harm him. Only a full recount would have destroyed his lead.

That is why the usage of the run off election phrase, is suspect. FOX knew that all this was going to happen. Dirty tricks where in the works to stop AMLO at any cost, including democracy in Mexico.

Thats why AMLO will never give up. Democracy is at stake in Mexico.
A new civil rights movement has begun in Mexico. Our civil right to have our votes protected and respected. Something that clearly shows was not.

Maya, Narcos in the south? Not in such places as Acapulco, Michoacan, and Quintana Roo. Surely not!!!

As to a runoff, what a great idea!!! Why did not the PRD propose one before the elections? Why did not MALO call for one after the elections? Not necesarily legal, but then neither was counting all the ballots without impugnations, and that did not bother him. The answer, of course, is that the PRD was and remains scared to death of what would happen to their candidate in a one on one election with a sensible candidate like Calderon...

JerryB
Name one famous narco from the states u mentioned, current ones please.
Ill give u 3 from the north, Vicente Carrillo, El Chapo Guzman, Edith Arellano, the only known female narco head.
U may continue to ignore that fact that the biggest drug user is the USA, and its all up their next to north Mexico. Who would the southern states sell drugs to?
Guatamala? Honduras? Maybe Belize. No matter how much u dislike this fact, but Narco Inc. in Mexico is a Northern corporation, and u cannot ignore that lots of the money u see, i see here in the north, is heavly influence by the almight narco dollar.

And a run off between AMLO and FECAL would have been easy for AMLO to win, but it cannot happen between them. Wait till 2012 when AMLO runs again, has a run off between him and whatever PAN is apointed to run, and see AMLO beat the pants off whoever that is. But prepare for six years of AMLO new civil right movement for Mexico, defending Mexican democracy. Imagine that, 12 years of AMLO. We would have been happy with 6 years, but nope. Thanks to dirty tricks, hes going to be around a whole lot longer.

pasilla, the problem with some of maya's posts is that his spelling and grammar is um... not the best. This, sometimes, makes his point get lost in, well, the translation.

At the same time, you accuse some of not really reading while doing the same. Bunburina is responding to a post where maya says that "because there are no runoffs...". She picks up from there. She is not incorrect in her reading, its just that maya refers to both the past and present in the same post, confusing the issue.

Now, this are side issues. The real issues I want to discuss are 2:

- Poor people voting or not for AMLO. I'm going to simplify and say that there are 3 reasons why someone poor (we'd have to agree on a definition too, I read somewhere that 80% of Mexicans define themselves as middle-class) would not vote for AMLO
A) They believed the AMLO propaganda that they were ahead by 10 points (is that dirty campaigning, lying, what?) so they say "why bother, he's going to win"
B) They believed the PAN, so they either abstained or voted for someone else who's not AMLO. Maybe they truly liked someone else.
C) They believed no-one, so they abstain.
None of these options really adhere to the theory that poor people believe AMLO will somehow save them, because if they really believed that then NOTHING would have stopped them. NOTHING.

- So now we have a new conspiracy theory? Don't make too much fraud? I'm going to paste here something I posted at the forums at my site in response to a Tex Drifter post where he said he believed there was some fraud.

----
tex wrote:
There are 3 big reasons that I think election was not without fraud-
1- Mexico under the PRI refined techniques of fraud and election control to an art.
2-I don't think anyone has denied irregularities, although it was declared that they were not significant enought to change the results.
3- I have very little doubt that the US (especially considering Bush and Fox's warm relationship) has been putting huge amounts of behind the scenes pressure on the Mexican government to make sure AMLO could never win. The US would probably do anything right now to prevent having another Chavez or even another Evo.
---
I wrote:

This is one of my pet peeves so forgive me if I sound angry during my post. The PRI did refine fraud but it wasn't all that refined, everybody could see it going on, it was out in the open, it didn't have to be subtle at all because they were in control and feared nothing. After 1988 the opposition negotiated electoral reform in exchange for playing nice (not revolting) under Salinas. All the controls we have in place are there to avoid or detect all of those types of fraud the PRI refined. If the system cannot stop certain types of fraud it can almost always detect them. In theory this is what came out as challenges from the Coalicion. However, there are a number of false positives derived from mistakes ("This station is missing 3 votes, the one right next to it is missing 3 votes, fraud I tell you, fraud!"). There were several irregularities serious enough to render the station null, but they was DETECTED.

Something that I do not quite understand is why the Tribunal, when deciding wether or not to anull a station, didn't look at the serial numbers of the ballots to see how many came from another station (like in contiguous stations) and which are forgeries or other types of real fraud. They just said, well, we have 50 extra ballots but the winning candidate won by 100, so it doesn't matter. Look at the serial numbers, its easy. If you have 200 voters then the serial number should stop after ballot 200 for that station (it could be 13578, for example), all those ballots after the 200th should be null.

To me it is rather obvious that its easier to influence the voters BEFORE they get to the station than to falsify votes because you otherwise risk anulling the whole thing.
---

The problem with conspiracy theories is that, as explanations, clarifications and assumptions are struck down and facts fall into place, the theory starts needing more and more outrageous explanations. This is the case with the "cheat, but not by much and only for the president, not congress or senate" theory. There are people who will always think that 9/11 was a self-attack, there will always be people who think JFK was killed by the CIA. You will always find someone who thinks massive fraud was performed in this election. I will not stand here and deny problems. There clearly were, we need to make better rules so that the IFE or tribunal can punish the President or the CCE for their actions, there have to be consequences for negative campaigns, there has to be a runoff, etc, etc, but I cannot accept what AMLO proposes and I will never accept his methods.

Finally, I realize that this election has divided the country, but to blame everything on the PAN/Calderon/Fox is disingenious, AMLO made his campaign on the whole US vs THEM platform. We're all responsible, don't just point fingers this way.

Ariel
Perhaps, your promblems with my posts, is not so much my grammer or spelling, its what am saying. That somehow confuses U.
Well, sure, i understand. When everyone thought the earth was the center of all creation, am sure Copurnicous also wasnt understood well. Especially when u see clearly how everything goes around, sun moon stars etc. But he prove that they where wrong. And AMLO proved that their was fraud. But just a little, according to the TRIFE. Not enough to make FECAL lose. So we have to live with a illegal president for 6 years. AMLOs new civil rights movement will take on a life of its own. But am sure Ariel, that is also confusing to you.

Maya, do you remember Mario Villanueva? You know, he was governor of Quintana Roo...probably a closet northerner...
The difference between north and south, and why one is rich and the other not, is that here we work hard and follow our dreams. In the south, they follow whoever the cacique del dia happens to be.

I just won ten pesos, i bet that u would mention Mario villanueva, who was put away, back in Zedillos days, and he was no head of narco, he worked for the northern ones. I can imagine u going insane, looking for real names, not make beleive. Look around where u live. TJ right? Thats where the Federation has a base of operation. Ever heard of the Federation? A blanket of narco companies invented by El señor de los cielos, also a northern narco. U make beleive that having the biggest consumer of drugs in the world, right next door to TJ, and other places in the north, has no affect on the economics of the place. The south, just doesnt have the biggest crack, meth, pot user, etc etc etc, right next door.
Am sure that hard work also comes to play, but having so much narco money doesnt hurt. To ignore drugs inc. north, is to ignore facts. U keep on pretending, the rest of us knows whats up.

Hey, maya0,

Here's a great big fat southern narco; Pedro Díaz Parada of Oaxaca. He has his fiefdoms in the central parts of the state between Oax & the Isthmus. He's famous for the deals worked out with the tank trucks of Pemex from Salina Cruz running first, in the old days, pot, then changed to coke in the 80's. A couple of years back, Excelsior did a story on him and his HQ in Sta. María Zoquitlán. One day you'll have to investigate the Juan Rosales Rosales case. The south produces and introduces lots of drugs, and then what's not consumed in-country is sent north to the gringos. The whole country is covered by Narco-Network; it's foolish to think there's a division between the north & south. One of the reasons my husband & I stay away from some parts of the state is that we've been warned not to be turning the campesinos on to alternative, legal businesses by the enforcers of Pedrito.

Nope maya, but see, when you make an effort you can be clearer and that makes for better dialog. Still, I have to point out that the fraud part was not proven, the only things that were proven were the interference of the President and the CCE. That's it. I deplore that nothing can be done about it but chastise the offenders in those cases, but the proof of fraud is simply not there. No one will ever convince you otherwise but you decided to take this to the tribunal and you couldn't prove it. Ask yourself why it is that your the intellectuals have, for the most part, abandonded your cause. Are they sellouts too? Sure, some here don't like those intellectuals, but I'm not one of them, the only thing I've ever said about any of them is calling Guadalupe Loaeza dellusional.

I also forgot to comment on your "why is the north full of drugs?" post. Do you really have to ask? Is it necessary to point out that the consumer is right next to the northern states? Have you given a thought to the fact that, given your train of though, this is yet another example of the north doing a better job than the south?

Finally, maya, the problem I had in the past with your posts was that they were, at diverse points, offensive, sexist, bigoted, racist and/or threatening. Just because I point out that your spelling and grammar are defficient doesn't mean I'm saying that you are, or that your mind is. Maybe that's confusing you and you take it personally. Otherwise, what's the point of inviting you to join is in the forums?

K Vronna
congraulations, u found one, but like U say, whats not consumed in the country is sent north, where TJ and other fine northern narco cities reside. My point is that most of narco inc. money is made in the north, invested in the north, because thats where the biggest consumer is. Right next to the north. U mention just one, by the way a quite older one. The big boys seem all to reside in the north. Why is all the up and coming narco heads, seems to be concentrating in the north? Is guatamala next door? No, its the land of John Belushi and all his coke addicted friends.

But of course, u rather not see this unpleasnt truth. But narco Inc. major HQs and major investments, are all up here in the north. Its that famous trikle down ecnomey theroy of the reagan era. Of course their is narco investments in the south, but thats itty bitty compared to the mega money that is seen in, well places like TJ where JerryB is from.
Wonder why it makes him cringe when i mention this. Makes me wonder what JerryB does for a living. Or if he is a legit bussines man, who are his customers?

Flooding in the PRD controlled DF because of no construction of adequate drainage.

"El milagro Mexicano continua"

Ariel your missing my point about the drug issue. I know that more drugs go north because of the USA. Geography plays a roll in that, not because of some northern work ethic. JerryB is always bringing up the south is poor and more dumb, north is richer, smarter etc. Well i just had to remind him that a lot if not most of the riches u see in the northern states, are thanks to Narco inc.
U cannot ignore this fact. Narco, is the number one maker of money for Mexico. And the narcos arent sitting on all their money. They invest in cars, boats, planes, homes, watches, shoes, etc etc etc. Some of that trikle down effect i wrote in my last post. U cant deny this.

Oh, and if i did insult, say sexist things, etc, well, i never, u can chk, never, drew 1st blood. Sorry about that terrible refrence by rambo, but it fits.
I always returned what i was given. Shame on me, for letting others push my buttons. Mea clupa, but i had fun, responding to those who flung barbs my way.

maya0, don't you think that a narco will invest where it will actually be an investment, something that accrues value. If you invested in the south, you'd be limited to very few lucrative investments compared to the north where property values and investment opportunities are much more plentiful, right?

But I think all this is a moot point because as I mentioned, the Narco-Network covers the whole country, just follow the executions. If the money isn't taken out of the business by legalization, we're going to be out of political topics because all the politicians will be from one party; the PRN. No, not the PRI's precursor, the Partido de la Red de Narcos.

Fair enough maya, I understand now what you were driving at. One small point, however. I feel you're diminishing the achievements of many hard working northeners with your comments. The narcotics "industry" is very recent. Cities like Juarez, Hermosillo, Torreon, Monterrey and others were not made in the last 40 years. There is a reason the Monterrey metro area has the highest GDP per capita in the country and why San Pedro is the only city in the country with more than 1 phone line per person. Narcs in the city were a rarity until very recently. It had to happen, its a mayor route to the north.

Oh, and sorry about that flooding in the DF jab, couldn't resist, but it was in good humor, I know its more complex than that.

pasilla wrote:
"eljefejesus: pathetic? Your ranting is pathetic. Show me something new that you are talking about. Stale rhetoric, no more. More than fifty million Mexicans who didn't vote for Felipe [such as] I are irrational, according to your twisted perception."

Umm... yeah! Now if we're talking about people that still specifically support AMLO's lunacy, I would add stupid. Ok, at best naive and gullible to believe a politician when he says he is the savior of the poor and they should do whatever he says.

It takes an old kind of idiot from which modern Mexican has recently evolved... although not all the earlier species have yet become extinct. If and when they become violent, however, I have little doubt but that they would be displaced most expeditiously. :) Again, just having some fun at the expense of the irrational radicals who support AMLO's old solutions of making promisses to spend government money on the poor to end poverty.

Remember that when Darwin wrote his oft-misinterpreted theory of evolution, he explained that survival goes to those best "fitted" to their environment (survival of the fittest).

Populists have left latin america to lag. Communists have left Russia behind Europe where it used to be compared, and investor-friendly capitalist countries have the most powerful economies from Japan, Europe, and the US, to the Asian tigers like South Koria, Taiwan, Hong Kong (and for the last 20 years China).

Now if some old dinosaurs can't adapt to the new economy, they will be angry and left behind followers of AMLO... but in the long run they will not survive.

... we are going to start counting to give it more than the 1 sexenio under fox when there was gridlock from the PRD and the PRI. Rome wasn't built in a day... and neither will the new Mexico.

pasilla,

The art of war:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/142623.html

compare that to this:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?amlo2006

The 6:00 AM post was by me.

Ariel R. Orellana:

Volcanic ash may fall over the PRD-governed Federal District; some earthquakes happen from time to time... You can do better than that!

You insist that there was no fraud (I personally don't think that it was generalized, but targeted) and that fraud wasn't proved; interesting logic. Fraud has to be proved, but without granting access to the source of evidence (the ballots).

eljefejesus:

If I'd understand what you are talking about, I'd make an effort in answering... You are a prime example of those who misrepresent Darwin's thought: social Darwinism is an invention of the right, not Darwin.

rodolfo:

I don't have a clue what The Art of War has to do with the links you post; besides, the writers of the anti-AMLO "manifesto" should be ashamed of their poor grammar. And no, I'm not interested in participating in your Olympic gathering. I prefer the agora...

By the way, I felt very good about the pro-AMLO kids "visiting" the oligophrenic Adal Ramones: what a lame argument!: "we are just trying to entertain;" never mind the anti-AMLO editorializing. Beautiful consequence: no public allowed in live broadcasting from the TV studios...

pasilla, the flooding jab is sort of a running joke, maybe it was while you were away. Maya knows what I'm talking about.

I insist that there was no massive fraud and that the targeted fraud was detected and the stations anulled for the most part. I'm not entirely certain what you mean with the next part of your comment, since access to the ballots was granted on 9% of the stations, where the mechanisms did show irregularities that merited opening the stations. Maybe if you clarify I'll be able to comment more pertinently. As it is, I'm assuming you're refering to the vote x vote request. If you are then I have to remind you that the PRD bears as much responsibility for not getting that approved as anyone else since they didn't submit paperwork for every district. Were the PRD lawyers overworked, were they rookies, naive or dumb or were they lying? Perhaps something else like the PAN conspiracy theory of it being a strategy to set up the request to fail so they could later claim injustice. I don't know, but whatever it was they hurt their own cause more than the PAN could.

I'll give pasilla this much credit, it is true that social darwinism is not an invention of darwin. the general principal is oft-misinterpreted and missaplied to wrongly imply that the strongest, swiftest or most fit will survive. what he actually meant was that those most fitted to their enviromnet would survive. In a way, I guess I am having my fun by correcting social darwinism to be more precise in my last post. My point, however, remains that old communist and solialist views are no way to make a nation richer. However, some redistribution policies are a way to sacrifice efficiency and growth in exchange for greater equality. Since Mexico still has to improve it's competitiveness in the world and
lower its susceptibility to external shocks and oil price declines which still make up a huge part of government revenue. Therefore, before we spend we should clean up our act.

However, Democracy makes room for views of Pasilla and other lower intellectuals like him. As he pointed out, he did not understand my playful twist on social darwinism. He certainly won't understand the need to improve mexico's finances before we go too far on spending. if you want to see what would follow, see argentina's plummet in its finances... or even mexico's own past debt crises originating from prior freefall in world oil prices. However, some people don't educate themselves and just believe a politician that seeks power. If they are good people and still follow AMLO, then it is typically because they are uneducated in economics, not willing to learn, trusting, naive, and believe in the old answers.
Pasilla, why don't you crack open a couple of text books on macroeconomics and international economics, read about the solow growth model, the steady state, the is/lm curves, past mexican crisis, and then see if you understand what i am talking about. after all that, you too may finally drop amlo and support growth and jobs to help relieve mexican poverty.

eljefejesus,

How much longer do you think Mexico will take before the "social spending" can begin?

eljefejesus:

Sorry for being... what did you say, a "low intellectual" (whatever that means)? However, while all those wonderful jobs, all that growth materializes (as other distinguished PAN-ista promised six years ago), what do we do with the poor? Do we wait for them to die off or just for the "fittest" to come to the US?

"However, some redistribution policies are a way to sacrifice efficiency and growth in exchange for greater equality...."

This statement defines your way of thinking beautifully: an attempt of making the lives of poor people less miserable through public investment is a "sacrifice" of profit...

I just need to "crack open" a newspaper to realize that illegal immigration to the US, a shameful event for any government, a proof of its inability to provide for their citizens, is rampant in Mexico, and has increased substantially during the Fox administration.

But going back to your social Darwinism; contrary to you, I'm not accusing anybody to be a "low intellectual;" but I believe that I have the right to say, based on your past comment, that I'm not at fault in not understanding your pseudo humor if you write so badly...

Interesting hole Mr. Lopez Obrador is in now. If he lifts the Planton, he will be acknowledging the Planton was a mistake and that the whole sacrifice he put so many of his followers through and all the problems he caused to Mexico City were of no help.
AMLO and Encinas want President Fox to use force, they have been asking for it, the whole planton represents a lot of daily expenses and trouble, it has become a social malade.
But President Fox is enjoying the situation very much. He is really having a lot fun watching AMLO blaming the press for his bad image and making scorn of all our institutions, wasting whatever political capital he has left.
Fox has the "I told you" expression in his face, the people of Mexico City, the ones who voted for AMLO and PRD in their mayority, are suffering their presence already. The intellectuals who defended AMLO so much during the desafuero are now suffering the embarrassment of AMLO's daily rantings. He has embarrassed them all and he has destroyed the image these intellectuals helped him build in the national and international press. I remember Sergio Aguayo and Antonio Crespo participating in interviews in CNN and BBC and other international networks and praising all the virtues and good political skills of AMLO. I remember Fox getting criticized everyday by Monsivais, Loaeza, Meyer, and even Carlos Fuentes. Well, now President Fox is enjoying himself much, and it all started last Friday when the PRD congressmen exposed themselves as clowns in congress and then the TRIFE Confirmed Felipe Calderon, and then when Felipe Calderon went to pick up his paper from TRIFE some imbeciles from PRD were spitting on everyone who tried to go into the tribunal, showing their pacific resistance character.

I think President Fox is doing right by not using any force to get the Planton out. The people of Mexico City needs to learn that there are populists and demagogues that dress themselves like victims of plots everyday. They need to learn who AMLO really is. And every day they suffer his destructive actions at the zocalo more and more people in Mexico City understand how wrong they were to have supported this dictator-wanna-be during the desafuero and the videoscandals, and hopefully they will learn to dismiss those politicians who when caught in corruption scandals the first thing they resort to is to pose as victims of an alledged plot to destroy them.

The longer the Planton lasts, the better the lesson will be learned and in the mean time, the same people who voted and believed in that demagogue are now demanding President Fox to use force to take the planton out, but Fox won't do it. And he is right not to do it. The people of Mexico City deserved the planton, so that they learn to distinguish populists better next time around.

You have all read it here first: the gospel according to emptyboxes... We need more scribes like him, who will teach the "untutored" (don't ask me; ask him!) citizens of Mexico City how to think, Monterrey style...

Amen!

PS Regards to Big Brother

There is already social spending in Mexico, but it has been shown that high growth rates yield significant reductions in poverty over time.
Why don't people like pasilla want to acknowledge this? Does it not fit into their preconceived pseudo-marxist ideologies neatly enough?
Calderon has already anticipated the need to beging expanding credit to the poor woment (who have been more reliable in using the assistance as investments to help themselves and their families than have men).
This is a good step. But in general, I strongly believe that mexico's huge debt as a ratio to GDP is not healthy for the pool.
So while pasilla and others like him strugle to understand the merits of anything beyond their favorite outdated idologies of the 60's and 70's, people like rodolfo, emptyboxes, and myself know a populist when we see one and a need for the country's economy to grown when we see it as well.
Surely even pasilla can agree with the minimally taxing concept that if mexico can at least raise tax revenue through a value-added tax and improved tax collection, then we can prioritize paying down the national debt and also expanding credit and investment in the southern states.
In other other words, not spending more than we have. Investing for the future. It's responsible financial management that works for individuals and countries as well.

rodolfo,
in more direct answer to your question, social spending has grow even more now, but only if we cut spending in other areas.

let me share this interesting selection available online at internationalbudget.org:

"In Mexico, the share of the federal budget going to social spending is increasing, mainly in the areas of health and social assistance. Spending for the Ministry of Security and Economy is increasing as well. Overall government spending is projected to decline by 5.6 percent from 2005 to 2006, due to lower oil prices and other factors. However, part of this decline may reflect an underestimation of oil prices for the coming year."

Rodolfo, I think people just don't understand us when we criticise the left because they think that we are against the poor or something crazy like that. If they looked more closely, they would see our concern. However, it is easier to give a person another dollar than to improve the economy such that it may have more jobs available for the poor.

Emptyboxes, you are right, every day the planton stays there, more and more Chilangos are getting to know and love MALO ever more. Some time back, there were rumors that his acoloytes wanted to "tomar" a PEMEX installation near the city, and troops were sent to guard it. I think this was a mistake. Let them have it, destroy it, and the Chilangos can all live without gasoline. See how they like MALO then...

eljefejesus,

As you say, you apply the same sensible spending practice you do in in your personal life as you apply to a government's spending policies.

You can only spend what you have and it takes time to spend on big social projects as it takes a long time of hard work to have enough money saved to buy a refrigerator or a car.

Our governments in the 70s and 80s had no qualms about spending and raising minimum wages as if the economy were a country
fair. The way to get more money was to print more money, until the country crashed in a series of apalling devaluations.

I still remember the "Economia Ficcion" we used to chuckle about when Echeverria started his tercermundista crusade.

What a patetical bunch of clowns these PRD people are, and a mafia also. They have been sending their UNAM radical fossiles to every event of Felipe Calderon ever since he was in campaign. In each and every meeting he had they were always there, violently "protesting" for something, they always have an excuse, and now it seems they are doing it more and more violently.

It goes to show the kind of filthy miserable radicals they are. Hugo Chavez is doing exactly the same with his oppositor in Venezuela where yesterday they send some punks to one of his events.

It seems the enemies of freedom and peace always behave in the same way.

But the force of the pacifics will prevail.

Felipe Calderon beat amlo up in the campaign, then he beat him up again in the election, then in the post-electoral conflict, and at the tribunal. And Felipe Calderon, the Elected President of Mexico, is now having all the protection of the EMP and all the money needed.

What is AMLO dreaming about? What a clown. I feel sorry for him. God help him. Poor fellow.

eljefejesus:

Please remember that I'm a "low intellectual." I'm not entirely sure what you do want me to agree to, in the mishmash of ideas that you put together. In principle, promoting growth sounds a priori like a fine idea, but not so in the face of the big asymmetry in income. If your "modern" economic theories work so well, why has growth been so meager during the Fox administration? I'm anticipating your reply: they have not had enough time to work. But for once rodolfo wrote something that made some sense: how much longer the poor are going to cope with their poverty? It's easy to defend blind monetarism, for example, if you don't have to fight ever harder to put food on the table. Your arguments seem very Christian: you have to suffer first to enjoy glory later. If the Mexican government continues making its main priority, to irrational extremes, the combat to inflation, there may not be Mexicans left to enjoy the rewards of such "wise" policies. And I'm amazed that you wrote that the government should live according to its means. No loans? I seriously doubt it. Anyway; something has to be done to stimulate consumption in the short term. In the long term we will all be dead...

PS By the way, AMLO improved tax revenue in Mexico City, and proposed to attempt the same if elected President, through tax code simplification. However he didn't propose the exchange of the progressive system by a flat rate, regressive scheme, like the one proposed by Calderon.

Rodolfo:

Right from the centre of me.
Came the flames so passionate and free.
Burning a desirable sensation from deep within.
Love pulsates from my skin.
This is the way of my heart.
Myself to another man.
Love of mine was in demand.
Took from the innocence of my soul.
His heart made me whole.
It makes the way of my heart.
To the thought of my love's demeanour.
My efforts have been heard.
Bonded by the every nerve on static.
Our feelings tend to attract it.
That's the way of my heart.
Happens to be a timely liaison
Seems to be the tease of the sun.
The moment it was captured.
It boosted my stature.
A way of my heart.
A love force with no boundaries.
So glad that it found me.
kept on through the night.
Just to show me the morning light.
The way of my heart.

... just thinking about you

September 8, 2006 11:04 PM

Is not mine.

It's been quite amusing to witness the ideological evolution that emptyboxes has displayed along these months. First, everybody was blindly following AMLO. Later there was an imminent schism between him and PRD. Now everybody is part of a Mafia, including the UNAM. I wonder... if Calderon is so successful in everything he does, why is emptyboxes (and others like him) worried about what's going on? When emptyboxes talks about increasing violence, he most likely refers to the disruptions of Calderon's acts by Mexicans with every right to demonstrate against him. Don't feel sorry for AMLO, emptyboxes. I can assure you that he doesn't need the pity of people of your lot.

"If the Mexican government continues making its main priority, to irrational extremes, the combat to inflation" Pasilla.

Pasilla, you are an absolute moron, for want of a better expression, if you think combating inflation is not important. Would you like to go back to the glory days of the 1970's and 80's when the poor, who you profess to care so much about, saw their incomes shrink on a daily basis, were completely shut out of the credit market, and saw real wages shrink by a factor of 50%.

The "irrational extreme" of combatting inflation has allowed for the most massive expansion of credit in Mexican history, BENEFITTING THE POOR (and middle class) more than any other sector (the rich always had access to dollar demoninated credit.), and today more Mexicans than ever in history own their own home, and more Mexicans than ever in history are financing cars. In the case of home finance loans, these are being offered to couples whose combined incomes are as low as 5 minimum wages. This is unprecedented.

Furthermore, during the inflationary mess that your heros Lopez Portillo and Echeverria left us, real wages, for the poor, declined at up to 10% a year, for decades. Not any more. They may not be rising much, but they are at least no longer falling.

Somehow I get the impression that you do not care about any of this. Like many leftists, for you, "the poor" are an abstract. You live in your ivory tower (DC, in your case, and please do not try to compare "poor" in DC with really poor in Mexico) and do not see the poor, except through your car windows, do not talk to the poor, and damn sure would not invite the poor into your home.

You should go out and talk to anybody in the bottom quintile of income who is over 40, and remembers the heyday of inflation, and ask him whether he cares about its defeat.

Unless inflation is down, NOTHING ELSE will improve economically. There will be no credit, no job creation, and no uplifting of the lower classes. But, there will be lots of opportunities for bleeding heart limosuine liberals like you to "help" the poor, and that, really, is all you and your ilk care about.

Inflation is the mother and father of unemployment.

I would just add to all the good posts that some loans for someone's education make sense for a person to take out, or for something as nescessary as a car, as JerryB and rodolfo have touched on. Similarly, a government may borrow and invest in its people's education or in developing it's natural resources... there are a lot of great examples of borrowing wisely... but too much borrowing leads to debt crisis and defaults that raise the nation's interest rates as investors refuse to lend to the nation without a higher risk premium for future investments.

The Mexican government is trying to lower it's risk premium. AMLO probably thinks that the nation's risk profile can go to hell, as long as he gets to dance around in his invisible clothes in the middle of the street and have his PRD followers watch and nod approvingly at the fashion show. Won't some little kids in PRD families be unindoctrinated enough to shout out that the emperor has no clothes?

Pasilla, if I have to correct "lower intellectual" to describe you as a "lower-level intellectual," then you will also have to waste your time correcting your grammar and syntax. Believe me Pasilla, you have a lot more corrections to make on your posts than I do on mine, so let's just agree to get our points across unless you happen to have a lot more time on your hands than I do.

Let's focus on the ideas and issues. Does anyone on AMLO's side have any ideas on improving the nation's economy? Is "increase public works projects" really AMLO's main strategy to reduce Mexican poverty?

As rodolfo has pointed out, Mexico's been through that nightmare before. The 80's were a lost decade for growth in latin american countries that went so far left and spent so irresponsibly.
If pasilla is for reducing inequality, but not for growth or sound fiscal policy, is he also for the existance of chickens, but against the existance of eggs?

Just look at what the world's track records have been, pasilla. Let's follow the Asian Tigers' examples of high national and personal savings rates, investment, and individual pursuits of education. We could reduce poverty like they have, rather than fail again with the same old spend-til-we-run-out-of-money strategy. Or print more money and watch watch happens to prices, economic activity, and currency valuations strategy.

Not through with you yet pasilla, why does the sacrifice today for a better strategy sound bad to you just because it sounds "christian"... is christianity still so evil to the far left? Is that why the extremist AMLOsers stormed that mass?
Sacrificing cash hand-outs and excessive spending is an easy concept, isn't it?
Look at Lula de Silva in Brazil, he didn't end hunger by giving the poor stipends, he ended hunger by giving out food.

He was able to be a responsible lefty and Brazil's total national GDP finally caught up with Mexico again (they have a huge country and population, they should actually have a lot more money than they do).
Still because of Fox, we're richer per person that the Brazilians, we've avoided crises in mexico, look at all the affordable things that so many more mexicans can get, and the re-emergence of the middle class.

If you dare the PAN government to change mexico quicker, prove it. Tell your PRD representatives to support the PAN's policy reforms and then let the PAN be judge. If pasilla, AMLO's, and lower-level intellectuals from the cold-war era (that one's for you pasilla) will stop blocking reform, then the PAN could be judged even more strictly and we could really hold a better referendum on the pan's rule.
Again, if any leftists have a better, strategy, we would love to hear it.

Pasilla: I really enjoy your pity efforts to reach the level of an intellectual when you write.
On the other hand, you call demonstrators to those UNAM punks who disrupted the right of President Elect Felipe Calderon to pay homage to Morelos.
But we are all very happy, those 100 demonstrators mean nothing against the millions of Mexicans who voted for Felipe.

This what you and AMLO and his UNAM punks and the CGH and all those trash cannot understand. The more they offend Felipe, the more the people reject them.

The Force of the Pacifics prevails in the end. And it is prevailing.

So some AMLO anarchists managed to hack our site.

Well that´s just one more indication of how you view democracy.

Free speech? Not in AMLO laqnd....

Just another version of AMLO reality,.... stop the media "they´re not fair to me"

"I will make the tv and media more representative"

I will control all media outlets, like my friends in Cuba, Ven el suena, and Bol ieve its the the truth.

emptyboxes,

I think I might know who wrote the 11:04 PM mellifluous rhapsody. I have two or three possible perps.

Will this be one wacky weekend?

I sure hope so!

AMLOids can rant and rave. Mexico can put up with protesters all the way to the 2012
presidential elections. We will see who gets the last laugh. Don't bet on PRD.
Protesting and disruption and coldblooded thuggery of the recent Oaxaca City sort add up and the concerned public is busy with their pencil and paper.

The grade on PRD voter preference since the plantonista People's Commissariat was installed: 20% of Mexicans would vote for PRD if an election were held today. Things are returning to normal historic levels at Commissariatyland, formerly PRD.

The People's Commissar is taking his band of fools down with him so fast they can't see the sh-t for the shinola.

Lord Windsor,

My yahoo email site was also hacked.

I'm devastated and will probably die a shrinking violet's death. I have been so exposed that I will have to move to some toasty Caribbean billionaire's island paradise and drown myself in pina coladas.

As of now my safe capitalist pig heaven has been shattered. I'll just have to make another billion or so to get myself together again.

These hacker warriors, cool to spend your time doing nothing, creating more fun and games for us to beat you at, really.

Pasilla, you seem to erroneously think that because Calderon won everybody who's against AMLO will be satisfied. Of course we're not. We're not satisfied with the poverty of our kin, with all the problems in the procurement of justice, the labor problem, etc, etc. Nothing is honky dory as you once posted. And still, your friends post falsehoods like Calderon fighting "tooth and nail" against a recount, massive fraud and others. Plus they keep threatening not to protest, which you can do all you want, but to continue impeding the normal life and work of others. That is what we worry over because at some point something is going to go wrong and violence will erupt. I don't particularly care to discuss who will start it, AMLO will always, always blame someone else (he uses the logic of the kidnapper: you might get hurt, but its not my fault, its your family's fault for not paying up). In the end that is what he wants, but not us, "Give me power or give me death". We worry about him breaking up our country, about him leading people to their graves. We will not shut up, we will not back down.

Thank you, Jerry B! I'm not surprised by your epithets. I have read your ranting about better credit for Mexicans, oh, a dozen times before. How many minimum wages do $10 USD a day represent? Because more than 50 million Mexicans survive with that amount or less; who's getting credit for buying cars, then?

Nobody, not even me, has suggested in this blog that combating inflation, promoting growth, should not be government priorities; but fighting income inequality and poverty is not less important.

eljefejesus:

Once again, I need to know what "strategy" or at least "strategies" you are talking about, to see if I have in mind a better one. I'm having difficulties following what you want to argue about. As many of your kind, you cast opinions left and right about me and others without a clue of who we are or what we stand for. I find this behavior rather typical among right-wingers. To give you an example, you can easily find on Internet the economic proposal advanced by AMLO campaign team; but you prefer to babble without ever having spent any time in reading them. But as I said: no surprises in this department. I'll give you just an example of either non-sense or carelessness in your writing:

"Still because of Fox, we're richer per person that the Brazilians..."

My best effort to understand this statement of yours leads me to think about the income per capita; I'd assume that you, a "high-level intellectual," would understand that in the face of extreme income inequality this may be a very misleading number. I put it in this very blog in the following terms: Carlos Slim has the same income per capita than a huichol Indian selling crafts on the street...

emptyboxes:

You know how much I do care about your bigoted, borderline racist opinions; I just amuse myself with your distortions of reality; that's all.

Ariel R Orellana:

You write:

"We will not shut up, we will not back down..."

Fine with me; but in fairness, you should accept that the opinion of people who doesn't think like you is as protected as yours in a democracy, even if you strongly disapproved of the message. It's quite easy for anybody to classify him or herself as a democrat, if one only converses with people who think alike.

Keep all worrying about Mexico, then. You should. A sleepy giant is waking up. AMLO is only incidental in the process.

Dear moron: (Pasilla) Without inflation control, NOTHING ELSE matters. Nothing at all. And, SOMEBODY is buying all those new houses going up, and it is not the rich. Again, as I mentioned, you profess to care in the abstract about the poor, but I doubt you do in person. I doubt you had much contact with them before you moved on to bigger and better things in the District. The poor, to you, are a vehicle to allow yourself to feel better (and perhaps line your pockets) by "helping" them.

who is pasilla???? mijo no tienes nada que hacer?

Pasilla, don't be afraid to mention your own opinion on policy that should be implemented, don't just say whatever AMLO wants. If you have a mind of your own I am sure you see inperfections in some of his proposals. No policy choice is without costs for today or for the future.

Pasilla wrote:
'eljefejesus:
Once again, I need to know what "strategy" or at least "strategies" you are talking about, to see if I have in mind a better one. ... '

to which I reply, value added tax, changes to allow foreign investment in mexican energy sectors, continued reduction of the huge national debt, continued price stability / central bank independence, breaking up monopolies, reforming the tax code, improving labor flexibility... there are others, but I hope now you will be willing to share with us a couple of policies you yourself actually support and even why.

pasilla also wrote:
'As many of your kind, you cast opinions left and right about me and others without a clue of who we are or what we stand for. I find this behavior rather typical among right-wingers. ... you can easily find on Internet the economic proposal advanced by AMLO campaign team...'

again pasilla, think for yourself if you can. plus don't be a hypocrite and pretend to be offended about being stereotyped as a leftist and then sterotype me as a right-winger. that is just embarassing for you.

pasilla wrote:
'[quoting me] "Still because of Fox, we're richer per person that the Brazilians..."
My best effort to understand this statement of yours leads me to think about the income per capita; I'd assume...'

pasilla, your assumptions imply that mexico's per capita income is not important. your argument that you cannot compare mexico's per capita income to brazil's because mexico has huge inequality falls flat on its face when you consider that brazil has even greater inequality than mexico.
in fact, brazilians and argentinians continue to migrate to mexico for a better life because mexico has been stable and growing whereas brazil and argentina have had more recent economic crises related to overspending and deficits.

growth and income per person are important. fast growth in particular has a strong effect on the reduction of poverty. Don't you agree growing is more important for the long-term than spending what we have now until there is no more to spend?

let me quote another statistic:
In Mexico "the population below the poverty level has decreased from 24.2% to 17.6% in the general population and from 42% to 27.9% in rural areas from 2000-2004."

also:
"· Income per capita is $6,790, the highest in Latin America
· Life expectancy at birth is 74 years"

Most importantly, if you look at the poverty rates of countries with modern economic policies who have already reformed their economies like those in Asia, you will see how quickly poverty reductions have been taking place. Compare that to AMLO's project works program idea... does he want to copy FDR's track record whereby the US great depression remained for a decade of these public works projects? Does he want to copy the massive spending that led to so many developing countries' debt crisis?
It's an easy choice on how to fight poverty if you do your homework on the economics of the issue first.

Double talk
Yes, thats what is what i mostly read from most of these Panistas supporters. A blog or 2 ago, I wrote about, the prices rising for the basics, like milk, bread, beans, tortillas, etc. I was attacked by Panistas and their chorts as simple. Not having a clue about economics. Basicly the term was, caca happens. Inflation happens, so live with it. But now I see these same Panistas supporters go on about how inflation is important to keep under control. Yeah, for new cars, and new condos, and that nice prep school or membership at some local campestre. But more than half of Mexico, is not worried about that. They worry about la leche, el pan, la azucar, el frijol. Those things that keep u alive. Breathing. If hunger is a constant friend to remind U that their around, U tend to get upset. When all one sees is those basics sky rocket. And they have gone so much higher. I quote
JerryB "Unless inflation is down, nothing else will grow economiclly". But some ppl here dont care about inflation for those things u need to exsit. Sure, once those needs are met, and u have way more to spend, then it becomes little more than a pesky fly. However, keep inflation down on those luxuries please. Keep costs down on that overseas vacation. Oh woe to the credit card company that wants to charge me higher rates. It must be nice to worry about that type of inflation, and so very happy that with these last couple of administrations, inflation has been whipped.
But for over 50 million mexicans. Millions of under norished kids, who go to school, if they can, on a empty promise of food. To the average worker who sees his paycheck blown by ever rising transportation cost, in unholy buses of torture. Here in the north, thats seems the only modes of public transportation, from Mty,(nice metro, built by orejas rumored to have been help thru lavado de dinero) thru torreon. And thou its more central, but in Guanajuato, San Luis Potosi, I could go all night listing them, its more of the same. Oh and of course in the south. Noxious fumes, running down the average Mexicano.
Who worries about the basics. Like I said, must be nice not to have to worry about that, and go tisk tisk tisk, to anybody who reminds U of that type of inflation.

The Mexican Miracle continues.

By the way, am being sarcastic about the Mexican miracle. Somebody, actually thought i was using it in a positive matter.

Maya, why do I know it is you even before I see who wrote the return? You said "". But some ppl here dont care about inflation for those things u need to exsit"

You may not know this, because papi probably provides for you, but the prices of things which you need to "exsit" have gone up by a much smaller margin this sexenio than in the last 30 years.

If you are poor, what do you want and need? A roof over your head. Food and clothing for you and your family. A job. Cheap transportation to that job. Basic household items.
Inflation destroys all of that. Inflation like that given to us by MALO's populist role model, Lopez Portillo, make home loans for poor people impossible, because the bank cannot estimate how much money the poor person will make in a year, and whether or not he will have enough to pay off the loan. So, the poor person parachutes in somewhere, builds a shack, and enriches a PRD "lider" (who is almost certainly an ex PRIista" who will intercede with the authorities for him. Unlike the homes that the poor buy under Fox, the shack is not his, will not increase in value, cannot be sold, and cannot be used as collateral on a loan.

If food and clothing go up in price faster than your salary, as happened big time after Lopez Portillo, you either get a Papi, or you go without.

If you would like a job, the employer must have money to hire you. Triple digit inflation makes this difficult. If you manage to get a job anyway, public transportation fares that rise weekly because gasoline rose weekly under inflation eat up all your money.

Finally, basic household items like refrigerators, televisions, cell phones, and furniture are today available on CREDIT. Forget about that under inflation.

Moron.

Pasilla and Rodolfo:

The phrase came from Von Clausewitz and it is: War is a continuation of politics by other means.....not the other way around.

I repeat, inflation is lower and more stable now than it has been in a generation.

This is thanks in part to spending restraints, so aside from the economy being crisis free, the independent central bank is better able to keep the inflation rate under control.

AMLO is against this stability in prices; he would sacrifise it for short term gains from government spending and more votes for him. Just like a good 'ol ex-Priista selfishly accepting the vote of the uninformed voter like mayaO and pasilla.

Salinas also did this. He was, like AMLO, the old fashioned dinosaur type of politician who would pump up the economies with short-term spending blitzes for the PRI to remain popular and in power during the 1994 elections. Meanwhile, the debt financing, the current accounts deficit fed by huge short-term stimulation that could have been cooled by higher interest rates(but of course were not cooled by higher interest rates because this would not have been popular) led the economic crisis that officially began after the 1994 election was over.

Even the PRD people should be against such old, false, short-term promises of spend spend spend. The PRI has been punished at subsequent elections and must be learning that mexicans are catching on and now have the power to put their experiences to work in their vote. They'd better not try to pull the wool over all our eyes.
Now the PRD must learn this too, and old pri-istas like AMLO will not stop until we prove that promises to spend spend spend won't get him elected.

Most Mexicans (of all income levels) voted for other candidates than AMLO because they've seen that show before too, and it stinks of self-serving, powe