I posted this in the last thread, but feel very passionate about it and so am reposting. Apologies to those who read twice. Also, I'm interested in Logan in the two-hole.

--------

"I couldn't agree more with the recognizing of the 1924, 1925 and 1933 teams. I'd even recognize the Grays teams, unpopular as that might be."

And speaking of the Grays, as a white Virginian I beg Stan, please, please, please, do something to make this new stadium not look like something just for white Virginians! D.C. is a majority black city and one of the reasons the original Senators moved to Minnesota was because "D.C. was trending colored", in the words of Cal Griffith. The original Nationals refused to integrate, unofficially segregated the stands, and took the thriving black community surrounding Griffith Stadium for granted. The expansion Senators similarly never connected with D.C. and so the place never became "a baseball town."

George Preston Marshall was no egalitarian and is famous as the tremendous bigot that caused the Redskins to become the final team in pro-football to integrate. But he was also a businessman and when he did, he realized that having close ties to the African-American heart of the city - the people most likely to be born and raised here - was a sure way to fill a stadium and build a fanatical loyalty that could withstand even Dan Snyder's mis-ownership.

Lerners and Stan need to pay attention to that. The heart and soul of any beloved baseball team of Washington, D.C. needs to build on the tradition of favorite step-sons the Homstead Grays. Do not make the same mistake as previous franchises. Do not take black Washington for granted.

Finally, the lineup that I would have preferred, Logan at #2 and Belliard near the bottom. I love all that speed at the top of the order and putting Belliard later in the order will add more balance to the lineup.

And I'll repeat my reply from the last post.

Hear hear!

Nick Johnson is here in Rochester? I wonder if they'd let me swing by with a plate of ribs from Rudolph's...

Great post 506.

(carrying on the tradition of posting it forward)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Ring of Honor of Washington baseball HOFers.

Raise the pennants for 1924, 1925 and 1933, Rangers and Twins be da**ed.

Frank Howard Night.

Throwbacks with the block "W".

New unis with pinstripes (an old Washington tradition).

Posted by: Millon deFloss | August 21, 2007 04:03 PM

~~~~~~~~~~

... I recall earlier in the year, pre-spring training even, the local DC 'discussion' about what team to honour - the Sens or the Expos.

... I said then, and I'll say it again, that the Nats are a Washington team, and should reflect the sporting tradition of Washington. As an ex-Expo fan, all I ever ask is that their memory be kept alive in the minds of DC fans. I don't expect the Nats management to go out of their way to do anything special, but it would be good if the media (Barry?) and the informal fan network could maintain a sense of the team's roots.

... and oh yes, I agree with Milton on the pin-stripes ( baseball classic) and the block 'W'.

According to Baseball Prospectus, Vidro ranks 5th among DH's in terms of VORP, or Value Over Replacement Player, in terms of runs, at 22. He has virtually no power, but an on-base % of .383, quite commendable.

Given the Mariners are in the thick of the playoff hunt, you have to say they got at least a decent return on the deal.

Thanks, Barry, for the updates. I'm encouraged that Nick had his surgery in a world-class institution and that one of their surgeons operated on him (nothing against the team's orthopedist).

Does Boston have a consonant shortage? They had Wily Mo Pena and Jimy Williams.

There's one thing about that lineup I don't like:

Logan - 8

It's bad enough that Logan can never figure out which way to break on a fly ball. Now he'll have to figure out whether to run up or downhill too...

Barry, I think the cash people are adding to the Wily Mo/Vidro deal is the cash the Nats got from Boston along with Wily Mo, not the cash that changed hands in the Vidro deal.

I like it, natsfan1a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38acw8yYoLM

Get 'em into a studio, update a bit and roll it for Opening Day '08 at Nats Park.

Nook isn't one of my favorites, but he did fine running up the hill to flag down a fly ball last night.

Now, I have a stupid question about something I've always wondered. What do the numbers after each player in the lineup about mean? I know it's a dumb question, which is why I haven't asked before now....

Don't know whether anyone on here may have a connection to those folks. I just stumbled on the link by searching for "Washington Nationals" on the youtube site.

---

I like it, natsfan1a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38acw8yYoLM

Get 'em into a studio, update a bit and roll it for Opening Day '08 at Nats Park.

Ooh, I know.

It's the position they'll be playing. You use those position numbers in scoring.

---

Now, I have a stupid question about something I've always wondered. What do the numbers after each player in the lineup about mean? I know it's a dumb question, which is why I haven't asked before now....

So how long do we have control of Pena now? End of the year? He's not a free agent yet is he? Arb-eligible, I guess?

Also, one of the maxims that I've embraced all my life is that there's no such thing as a stupid question. (It's served me well, as I have a very inquiring mind...)

1 - p
2 - c
3 - 1b
4 - 2b
5 - 3b
6 - ss
7 - lf
8 - cf
9 - rf

Barry when you get a free minute (which may not be until next season...) can you clarify WMP's contract status re: arbitration/free agency/etc.? Thanks!

Put in a "Five Guys".

At the end of the year he will have 5.101 years of service time meaning the Nationals have control for one more year through arbitration. After the 2008 season, WMP will be a free agent

To truly understand the history of baseball in DC read a wonderful book "Beyond the Shadow of the Senators" by Brad Snyder.

I may have posted this before (okay, I definitely did), but it's worth posting again...

Five Guys, YESSS!!!

RE: Marketing and Promotions --

I get to about ten games a year (not bad for the 4000 mile commute to the stadium).

I like the Rushmores... Interesting that they don't use that term very often to describe them...

Screech isn't my cup of tea, but then, none of the giant mascots are, really...

From the musical perspective... how about this... instead of an organist, how about a house band? Five or six pieces... Get a frontperson with some personality... Expensive?? sure... but so are tickets to a game.

Not that we should do it, but I like that the Giants have a female announcer...

I really liked the DC IQ thing...

One thing that strikes me whenever I go to the games (or come to DC, for that matter) is that the whole aura of being in the Nations Capital is a huge marketing positive... and I know from having grown up in DC, that as a resident you might get a little desensitized to it.

From a merchandise standpoint, you would think that with ownership as connected as they are to retail space, that there would be a Nats store everywhere...

A couple other things... The new stadium should have free wifi... and offer an in-stadium free service with scoring and basic news... like, when a player comes out of a game for an injury, what the status is... Sorta like gameday, but, in-house. You could even use gameday as the engine.

Another thing... between innings, highlights from other games... Perhaps there's a licensing thing there... but it would be nice to have "From Atlanta, the Braves lost on this two-run homer by..." kind of thing.

I've always wondered why the shortstop is 6 and third baseman is 5. If you go "around" the infield, the SS is between the 2nd baseman and 3rd baseman. If the 2nd baseman is 4 then the SS should be 5 and the 3rd baseman, 6.

Well spoken (written) Section 506 (After Moving)!! Let us all hope the Ownership hears you and acts accordingly.

Nevermind about the numbering. Through the wonders of wikipedia, I discovered...

>>>The numbering convention was established by Henry Chadwick. The reason the shortstop seems out of order has to do with the way fielders positioned themselves in the early years of the game.<<<

Which does make me ask where was the SS positioned if the 3rd baseman was "before" him around the infield?

Hey jb,
The Wily Mo spelling is from the latin/spanish spelling of Wilfredo (only one 'l' since two l's would be a new letter, with the 'y' sound).

You got me on the Jimy Williams though. I wondered that years ago when he was with the Blue Jays (as a young sports writer in high school, I misspelled it all the time). He's a Philly bench coach now, if I remember right from last week.

----------
Does Boston have a consonant shortage? They had Wily Mo Pena and Jimy Williams.

Posted by: jb | August 21, 2007 04:53 PM

Paul, way back in the day the basemen all stood in position pretty much on top of their respective bases while the short stop positioned himself much closer towards the batter. so when you went around the infield, it made sense to count 3, 4, and 5 in order, then 6 gets assigned to the last infielder.

Hey -- if most of us are going to the last game in RFK (9/23), maybe we should try to sing a specific song at a certain point. I could certainly find the lyrics to "Ya Gotta Have Heart" on the internet. I do NOT guarantee the quality of my singing however!

Oh, I'm curious about Nook in the 2 hole instead of lead off.

With the lefty throwing tonight, I like the RH-heavy lineup. Does anyone else think Nook makes more sense ahead of FLop than behind him? I guess the expectation is he'll bunt more.

Oh, and thanks for the Vidro update, Barry. That's a high-priced DH singles hitter, but he has been productive near the top of the lineup. Besides, batting behind Ichiro, those singles probably equal a lot of 1st to 3rds, which is kinda close to extra bases (see those Angels who really jump on those!).

Oh, and a potentially more interesting posting headline:

"Hip, Hip - Oy vay!"

or

"Hip, Hip, Jose"

Barry,

This off season when you check in with Nick Johnson please ask about his weight.

Even before I say him limping around Spring Training dug out I remember saying oh no......he is 40 pounds overweight!

I love Nick but that was a huge RED FLAG.....I hope collecting $5 Million for not playing this year can provide some incentive or guilt to have a salad once and a while!

Also, Barry, while you're at it, maybe you could do some leg-work on the case of the fan who proposed at the game last night, only to have a tub of popcorn dumped on his head by his would-be fiancee, who then stormed out of the park (as reported in the Houston Chronicle). Eh, I think he may be better off without her.

The news on Micah Bowie concerns me. Not just because i believe he is valuable to the team, but because his absence means the team may be less willng to trade Ray King. Actually, for the right price, i would have been content for the Nats to trade both left-handed specialists/

You said it 1a! Nice!
I thought of that immediately after posting!

------
or

"Hip, Hip, Jose"

Posted by: natsfan1a | August 21, 2007 05:43 PM

re: failed proposal
("Not on a Monday night game against the Nats, cheapo!")

---

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5070097.html

It was not a good idea to make assumptions Monday night at Minute Maid Park, where the Astros got the figurative equivalent to popcorn thrown in their faces, which is also what one fan suffered when he tried to propose matrimony before thousands of strangers...

The biggest unrest happened in the stands when a fan failed in his very public attempt to propose matrimony. With all the attention placed on the couple as they were highlighted on the big screen, the mood soured after the man took a knee to offer the engagement ring.

Wearing a brick-red replica Craig Biggio jersey, the lady angrily dumped a bag of popcorn on the man before rushing up the stairs amid a loud chorus of boos. After the top of the sixth, the man left amid cheers from the sympathetic crowd.

Sorry, last post before game time (promise)

Reading that gamer on the Chronicle just made a mark again about how lucky we are to get Barry's gamers in the Post.

Reading that drivel, and dry, lack of context, analysis or narrative recap (of the game, not the stands) makes me glad to enjoy having a good WRITER following our team.

Ok, go get 'em guys. Hanrahan, keep the ball down and let's see a WMP missile!

Someone on another forum where I posted the link said that the whole proposal thing was a set-up. I hope not, as it's such a good story. Of course, then I wouldn't have to feel sorry for the rejected fella.

On the numbers, when I keep score (something I only started doing this season), I STILL need to look at the number guide at the front of the book to remember which player is which. Getting better at it, but there ya go.

Also, there's a really good book by Paul Dickson called "The Joy of Keeping Score: How Scoring the Game Has Influenced and Enhanced the History of Baseball" that has lots of really cool tidbits about this particular habit/hobby/obsession.

Great minds think alike, Shaw! Also, your initial headline served as my inspiration.

---

You said it 1a! Nice!
I thought of that immediately after posting!

Wow, the guy who proposed had it coming. If he knows this girl well enough to propose marriage, he has to know that this is not her style. It sounds to me like something he dreamed of his entire life, and he didn't take her into account when doing it.

Oh, crud. I see someone else came up with the idea that it might be a set up before I did. After I wrote my last post, I realized that the scenario would be a great piece of performance art.

That's a great book, Juan-John. I used it to refine my nascent (natscent?) scoring technique in the first season of baseball here. Dickson has a bunch of good books. I especially like his baseball dictionary.

I can get mixed up with the position numbers for the outfielders in the heat of the scoring moment (for some reason, I tend to transpose the corner fielders' numbers). What I do is write the numbers and corresponding positions on my scorecard before the game starts. Then I can use it as a reference.

---

On the numbers, when I keep score (something I only started doing this season), I STILL need to look at the number guide at the front of the book to remember which player is which. Getting better at it, but there ya go.

Also, there's a really good book by Paul Dickson called "The Joy of Keeping Score: How Scoring the Game Has Influenced and Enhanced the History of Baseball" that has lots of really cool tidbits about this particular habit/hobby/obsession.

"To truly understand the history of baseball in DC read a wonderful book "Beyond the Shadow of the Senators" by Brad Snyder."

I also highly recommend this book, especially if you have a lot of interest in Civil Rights. I learned all about the movement to desegregate baseball - which was not at all as Disney-perfect as the version we get on Jackie Robinson day - and read a hell of a lot of interesting baseball too.

Hey natsfan1a,

just watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38acw8yYoLM,

and I'm wondering. Was that our own 'mischatter' modelling her Nats jersey in that video?

Carpenter immediately pegged the "rejected proposal" bit as a hoax, and was mocking the Astro fans for getting more excited about that bit of theater than they were about the game itself. He said that he'd seen that stunt pulled at other games.

Hi natscan, yes, I believe it was. I don't tend to visit blogs other than this one very often and I just happended to stumble on the youtube item after Googling "Washington Nationals" (no offense, misschatter -- it's the "so many blogs, so little time" factor for me).

My fingers also just "happended" to stumble on the keyboard just now...

That might explain Garner's witty remarks about the proposal (not that he's not a witty man, although I don't actually know him, oh, never mind...)

---

Carpenter immediately pegged the "rejected proposal" bit as a hoax, and was mocking the Astro fans for getting more excited about that bit of theater than they were about the game itself. He said that he'd seen that stunt pulled at other games.

The rejected proposal bit was used at a Wizards game a little while back.

This is great! The official press release from the Arizona Diamondbacks says that Fruto had gone 3-0 for the Columbus Clippers. They somehow forgot the 9 losses.

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070821&content_id=2161524&vkey=pr_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari

The other part of the trade- Chris Carter will join the Red Sox, not go to their minor league team. It may be that all 3 people in the trade have real major league opportunities from the trade.

Natscan, I just watched the video and I'm pretty sure that's Walter Johnson.

_________
and I'm wondering. Was that our own 'mischatter' modelling her Nats jersey in that video?
Posted by: natscan reduxit | August 21, 2007 06:17 PM

OK, Nats fans, *this* (and yesterday too) is what it feels like when your team gives your starting pitcher some run support.

So if something goes sadly awry later on, and we feel like grousing about the pitching, there'll be a bit more of a case for doing so than there was in the Mets series.

WMP has transformed the lineup...

They're a different team, offensively...

Is he the missing link? No... but it sure is different...

Just got home and feeling content with our score so far (8-3).
I'd be willing to support those who think the proposal was a hoax. We had an intern who was friends with a guy who was actually part of the same proposal-and-rejection act for a college basketball team in Florida back in late '04, early '05. Sounds like the trend has caught on.

How 'bout these leg hits? Can't attribute those to Minute Maid. (Could've to the Astrodome, maybe.)

Okay, so Logan - 8 is having a big night. I guess I'll have to change my tune. He can stay, but Sweet Caroline and Clint, they still gotta go!

so did anyone else here give blood last Saturday, and get tix to tne Sept. 5 Wed. night game against the Marlins (who are losing their way into last place as I type this!) in Sec. 536?

CAN YOU BELEIVE....that the following reader poll on the Nats MLB website actually has that many people thinking it will be JP ?? (Or maybe our own 'jpfanandproudofit' has stuffed the ballot box...)

_________________________________________

Funny - it sure looks to me like Shawn Hill's mother stuffed the ballot box. Even she must know that if JP's arm is finally healthy he's the best we've got!

(Sorry it took me so long to post this - I've been out of town.)

Hey Cevansjr,
I got tix for that same game, but I thought they were section 510. It's a Wed night that I couldn't go anyway. I've offered them to a local family with kids, but unfortunately it's a school night. All in all, a great idea, but regardless it's for a good cause.

---

so did anyone else here give blood last Saturday, and get tix to tne Sept. 5 Wed. night game against the Marlins (who are losing their way into last place as I type this!) in Sec. 536?

Posted by: Cevansjr | August 21, 2007 11:17 PM

NOOK!
5 for 5!

I take back any doubts about you in the 2nd spot!

Next time vs. lefty, keep at it. And yes, WMP has changed the whole look of the lineup, although 2 games (against the 'stros) does not a future predict!

Wow, nearly 4 hours for a 9-inning matchup. At least 25 left on base. Houston's had base runners EVERY inning and still the blowout.

The ground crew is gonna have to truck in some dirt for the infield after this one.

Back to bed.

Sincerely,
Rip van National

Ladies and gentlemen, your Not Last Place Washington, DC Nationals

Hey Barry,
3:44 is the time of game.

Just wondering if that's the longest 9-inning, no-weather-delay game in Nationals history.

Or, did it just feel like it?

That's a lot of pitches, walks, hits, base runners, left on base, rbis, pitches behind in the count and all. And, it's done. Nice win, NATS!

5 for 6, but well.

First Nationals player to ever get 5 hits in one game...

NOOK LOGAN????!?!?

Whoo hoo!

(Heh heh-he looked more deer-in-the-headlights during his post-game interview than in any one of his MLB at-bats... hilarious!)
Right on, Nook!

Cheers, and happy baseball

Zip-ah-dee-doo-DAH!!

Guess I can go to be with a smile tonight... :-)

fantastic TEAM performance tonight. even the guys that weren't hitting successfully (i.e., Lopez) were busy breaking up double plays, etc., and contributing and ultimately scoring.

We're now 36-6 when we score 5 runs or more... a regular touch of this kind of offense with our generally above-average pitching (seemingly regardless of who we throw out there) could go a long long way to us turning the corner next season. Based on our results as Minute Maid, it also seems like we have the pitching to handle a slightly more hitter-friendly ballpark (we also did well at Great American, although that is a joke of a park, it is so far in favor of hitters).

Clearly, our hitters benefit greatly from that kind of park. I think that bodes quite well for the apparent layout of the new stadium as compared to our current lineup... Can't wait to see how it actually turns out.

OK, last thought before bed:

The post-game show folks talked about the Nats players' "hustle" in helping them stay competitive.

There were two instances in two innings, and I forget which inning, but Wily Mo beating out the throw at first, and Flippie beating out another throw at first, were totally key to getting more plate chances.

Remember early on in the season, when Manny benched Flippie (or was it Church?) for not running hard to first base?

If there's any way Manny can get Manager of the Year, this shoud be one of the reasons for it.

NOW I'm going to bed. 'Night all!

"Funny - it sure looks to me like Shawn Hill's mother stuffed the ballot box. Even she must know that if JP's arm is finally healthy he's the best we've got!"

Totally, and everyone knows Shawn Hill's mom is Barry Svrluga. Well, maybe he is really Shawn Hill's sinker's mom, to be more precise.

Where did you go jpsfanandproudofit? You should know we expect reports.

Congratulations to Exavier Prente on his 5 for 6 night and to the Nats for taking sole possession of fourth place for the first time this year! WMP only 1 for 5, but he made that one count with an RBI and a run, so we'll chalk this one up as another good night for him.

But I am especially pleased with Zimm's 3 for 5, with a homer, 4 RBI, and 2 walks. He's someone we know is going to be on The Contender and his August is looking even better than his July.

Consider:

August (July)
AVG .325 (.311)
SLG .639! (.456)
OBP .380 (.372)

He's at 32 2B, 19 HR, and 70 RBI folks and the pace he's achieving them is on the upswing folks. Whatever was bugging him at the beginning of the year is not bugging him anymore. Now about those errors...

We only need to go 24-12 to get 81-81...

Holy crap - Garret Anderson with 10 RBI against the Yanks?

Yes, the calls for putting Logan on the waiver wire a couple of months ago were coming from me. (Among many others.)

I guess I got my wish, in a way; Bad Nook (LH hitter) has vanished, and Good Nook (RH hitter) is posting some fancy numbers. Even so, I'll be scurrying around Brisbane this evening for some sackcloth and ashes.

He seems to inspire his teammates, too. And the muse's pendulum is swinging to the other extreme:

Nattily-battily
Logan, Exavier,
Tears up the yard when he
Hits from the right.

If all the Nationals
Nook-imitatively
Follow his lead, are we
Back in the fight?

Oh you Nats!

Ok, Natosphere, can we now finally get over our collective anti-Nook groupthink? It seems hardly anyone stands up for Nook around here but I, for one, love watching the guy play. His speed is just awesome -- it really changes the tenor of the game when he gets on -- and he's proving he can hit from the right side (in fact, this isn't a new development, as his career numbers from the right side have always been good).

Nook has contributed much more than both Church and Kearns this year. Since giving up hitting left handed, it's not even close.

Let Church and Kearns platoon. Keep Nook in center!

New Barry post in the middle of the night. (Except here in Brisbane, but as far as I'm concerned it's the middle of the night anyhow.)

SF Fan-

I say if we're going to shoot for the moon, lets go 25 - 11, and finish with our first winning record!

Nice double-dactyl, Hendo.