I think the Red Sox are already the new Yankees. I find them immensely hard to root for. Overpaid egotistical players? Check. A powerhouse behemoth team? Check. Incredibly obnoxious fans? Check.

Not to mention these same fans don't know how to define themselves outside of THE CURSE. Stop it. Your team is not an underdog. You are not entitled to win the World Series because you went 86 YEARS WITHOUT ONE.

Also, American League baseball sucks. The designated hitter it practically a crime against humanity.

You hit it on the head Atlanta. I despise this team and their "fans". Beckett is awesome but he is a punk. Manny is an egomaniac which is blown off as "Manny being Manny". Most Red Sox "fans" can't name half the roster and root for them to be trendy. They've started to spend more and more to buy teams.

I do like some of their guys that play hard like Youkilis, but I've come to hate this team mostly because of obnoxious fans. I don't blame them for buying players why wouldn't you but to act like they are the underdog and the whole woe is us mentality is really annoying.

As far as I am concerned Atlanta said it they aren't becoming the new Yankees they already are the new Yankees.

Glad to have you guys back.

As for the question, the Yankees will always be the Yankees, but the Red Sox are quickly becoming the evil step-sister in baseball.

I'm sure New Englander's will spin this into a new form of narcissism and self loathing. "Look, everyone hates us!"

The problem with this new identity is there isn't a cathartic release anymore.

Corporate efficiency has replaced myth.

Granted, one can't fault what ownership has done, but the charm of the Red Sox has changed. They have become chic.

They had stopped being cute by 2003. It was just a matter of time till they won the Series. Now they have. And like Atlanta said, they're fans have become irritating instead of amusing

Agreed. As a Nationals fan I find it infuriating that the Sox fans act like we're still supposed to feel sorry for them. This team became the Yankees a long time ago and is the antithesis of an underdog. Triple the payroll of the Rockies--it's just not an even fight. Put Manny back in left field in Cleveland where he belongs and that ALCS is a blowout sweep by Cleveland.

The Red Sox is some ways are an even worse example of teams buying championships than the Yankees dynasty was. The Yankees were built on a core of homegrown talent--Mo, Posada, Jeter, Pettitte, Williams. The 2004 Red Sox in particular was almost entirely a big money free agent team--Pedro, Schilling, Damon, Manny, Foulke, Wakefield, Cabrera... Who was their most consequential homegrown player? Varitek? This season at least they have SOME homegrown talent. But take away Matsuzaka, Okajima, and the rest, and they aren't a playoff team, much less a champion.

Put another way--try 5 years of MLB ownership and being the only team in the league with a salary cap. Now THAT'S a curse.

Nice little bit of news out of Columbus is that Adam Dunn and Austin Kearns are UFC pals... hmmm....

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2007/10/26/rumblings26.ART_ART_10-26-07_C3_A189JK5.html?sid=101

Have to scroll halfway down commentary...

Thank you, Steven.

Of course the Sauxx have become the 2nd leg of the evil empire. The frightening thing is that, now that Epstein has had enough sense to invest in the minor league system (as the NYYs have done for decades) they figure to be a power for the foreseeable future (sorry, Peter, you screwed up again...could have bargained for the NL east and stuck us fighting the uphill battle against NY & Boston).

It's ironic, all of a sudden there are a bunch of folks walking around DC & environs wearing Boston caps. Bet that most of them haven't been to a ballyard in decades.

Of course, I have relatives from Chicago, so I may not be completely uninterested in this. Personally, my feeling is that the Washington Nationals last won a W/S in 1924 (you can look it up).

I do have a fairly serious question. Are teams like the Rockies / Cardinals / Fish, etc. almost doomed to "get lucky" one year in about 12 or so and then go back to mediocrity?

I'm sitting here, watching the game, next to my BoSox-rooting, Kevin Youkilis-lusting, gloating, smirking roommate. I love her, and we get along great, but whenever the Red Sox are playing, I have to supress the urge to smother her in her sleep. Manny Ramirez is not cute. He's either bat**** insane, or a bad person. And Steven, how about 33 years with no baseball at all? But alas, only Red Sox fans know what true suffering is.

(for data collection purposes only)

I hadn't read your story and I spent most of the night trying to convince some friends that the Red Sox were the new Yankees.

"Are teams like the Rockies / Cardinals / Fish, etc. almost doomed to "get lucky" one year in about 12 or so and then go back to mediocrity?"

The Cardinals have won more World Series than any team except the Yankees. They've been in the playoffs 6 of the last 8 years. So they're not in the "get lucky" category.

And, there are 30 teams now. If "get lucky" means appearing in the World Series every 12 years, that's actually not too bad.

The Yankees and Red Sox "buy" championships........LOL

Thats just an excuse of fans of clubs who don't spend the money.

If the Lerner's or Angelos' did the same thing, it wouldn't be "buying" a title I'm sure..ROFLMAO.

Angelo's has ventured into the free agent arena, but he still can't get out of the second division.

Was at the game last night. Thanks to the Denver people, we've enjoyed this. Nice park, with a football crowd.

Well, caphcky, Angelos IS trying it, and if he were any good at it, I would absolutely call it "buying a championship." And the Lerners have already said they WON'T. Maybe you heard that they did the best in the draft this year. Oh, yes, they're spending money (see: Smoker, J), but they're spending it to develop players into stars, rather than just buying stars.

Nobody BUYS championships. The games are won on the field.

Its a convenient crutch fans use when they are frustrated by ownership that won't bring the best players to their teams.

The Sox were down to their last game a week ago....nobody "whined" about their payroll....now that they are on the verge of another title, "they bought it" (RIDICULOUS).

Yes the Lerners are doing it right, but then again the Sox did it right also. Performances from Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, prove that.

Don't fall off your crutch!

Yes, the Redbirds have won 2nd only to the Yankees, but much of that was either before I was born (which was a long time ago) or when the White Rat was able to craft a team around the fake grass in his stadium (not saying that it wasn't a smart thing to do, just saying it was a unique situation). 8 teams into the playoffs each year, given that some clubs, like KC, TB, etc. are destined to almost never hit the playoffs, 6 of 8 years is not unexpected. To appear in the W/S as has Colo, Miami (Yeah, I know that they won twice, but those were both freaks).

All of this is not to say that parity is necessarily a bad thing. It's just a matter of being smart about how you spend your money. So far, the Bombers and Sauxx seem to be the smartest. Orioles seem to be the worst. Which may say that it is a better thing, from a winning perspective to spend money on infrastructure (scouts, F.O. personnel, etc.) than on players. Yankees and Sauxx have done a good job of both.

So A-Rod opts out! HA! That's incredible. I don't care how much like the Yankees the Sox are becoming. All dynasties fall in time. I'm enjoying the demise of the Evil Empire while I can.

Joe Buck is a turd but how funny was his comment on John Henry as the A-Rod news broke? "John Henry is on his Blackberry and smiling, is that good news?"

DORA (A-Rod backwards) has about as much of
a chance of being in a Red Sox uniform as the O's and Nats have of facing off in the World Series next year.

caphcky--

There it is, incontrovertible evidence that the Red Sox = the Yanks (or at least Sox fans = Yankees fans).

How many times have we heard John Sterling make this exact argument, that the Yankees don't have an unfair advantage over small market teams (or the team--singular--that has had to compete with a salary cap one-third what the Sox spent this year). Oh no, their spending is simply evidence of their willingness to "do what it takes to win." Gimme a break.

How many years did we listen to the Boston whiners moan about the spending of the "Evil Empire" Yankees?

You're right, caphcky, the reason Pedro and Cabrera were with the Red Sox in 2004 was because your front office wanted to win more than the Expos'. (And the A's, Indians, Twins, Pirates, and every other team you looted to win in '04.) It had nothing to do with the fact that MLB owned the franchise and Bud Selig forced the team not to even offer contracts to these players, not to mention Vladdy, Grady, Larry Walker, John Wetteland, Jason Bay, Marquis Grissom, Randy Johnson, Moises Alou, Javier Vazquez....

If you eliminate the bias for the big-market, big-money franchises and reassign every player to the team that originally signed them, the Nats would be in the midst of a dynastic run. Who can field a better lineup than this:

C: Michael Barrett/Brian Schneider
1B: Brad Wilkerson
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Orlando Cabrera
3B: Ryan Zimmerman
RF: Vladimir Guerrero/Milton Bradley
CF: Grady Sizemore
LF: Jason Bay/Cliff Floyd
SPs: Pedro Martinez, Javier Vazquez, Cliff Lee, Randy Johnson, Shawn Hill
CL: Chad Cordero

Jamie carroll gave that ball a hell of a ride. only 5 feet too short. Im still proud of him.

"How many times have we heard John Sterling make this exact argument, that the Yankees don't have an unfair advantage over small market teams (or the team--singular--that has had to compete with a salary cap one-third what the Sox spent this year). Oh no, their spending is simply evidence of their willingness to "do what it takes to win." Gimme a break."

I will give you a break. Because I really don't care what you think. The Red Sox didn't break any rules on spending, they've developed thru free agency AND in player development.

The big market teams PAY alot of money to these second division teams like DC and Baltimore because ITS IN THE RULES.

Quit whining and good night. I'm going to celebrate till my flight in the morning when I go back to the greatest sports city on the planet. I think there might be a parade that I might like to catch.

the question of sox morphing into evil yanx is about five decades premature.

Wait a moment. Where exactly are these mythical Sox fans who expect everyone to like us and define ourselves by the curse? Not in New England, that's for sure. If the bandwagon fans are annoying you, I sympathize, but...that's kind of the nature of bandwagon fans in general, isn't it? They weren't any less annoying when they were cheering for the Yankees, and they won't be any less annoying when the wheel turns, the Sox have some off years, and the bandwaggoners go root for a team like the Diamondbacks (or dare I hope, the Nats.)

And folks, I hate to break it to y'all, but we've been in the free agent era for a *long* *time* now. You think the Sox haven't lost guys to free agency? And what MLB team *should* Matsuzaka & Okajima be playing for? The Seibu Lions aren't in the MLB. And I'm sorry, but the awful way that Selig & Co ran the Expos in their final days is no more our fault than it was the fault of the Yankees, or the Athletics, or the Astros. Blame it on Bud Selig and his guys for letting such a conflict of interest occur in the first place.

Sure, Schilling is a big money free agent. No question. Of course, he was also originally drafted by the Red Sox, so by those rules he shouldn't be counted. And citing WAKEFIELD as a big money free agent? Give me a *break*. We signed him off of the scrap heap in 1995, and he's been here ever since. He gets 4 million a year, hardly exorbitant. The only team that might break is the Marlins, and the Marlins are the reason there should be a salary floor. David Ortiz? He was non-tendered by Minnesota, he wasn't signed as a free agent from under their small-market noses. You non-tender the guy, you lose the right to complain. (Manny? Yeah, I can't argue that one and I certainly wouldn't try to do so. But I will object to the characterization of him as a bad guy. Flaky doesn't equal evil.)

Also? Your starting pitching falls apart there a bit Steven, because Pedro Martinez (greatest pitcher who ever lived) is pitching for the LA Dodgers, as he was never traded for Delino DeShields in the first place. I'll give you the fact that trading away Sizemore and Orlando Cabrera (who is overrated in my opinion anyway,) was probably done under duress or at least inattention. But that wasn't true when you traded away Randy Johnson, so my sympathy is limited there.

Er, when I say I want the bandwaggoners to root for the Nats, I mean that I'm hoping we'll (Nats we) win 5 WS in a row, never drop below 500 again, and start our own sellout streak. I want *good* things for us, that wasn't meant to be snark.

For data collection purposes, yes to Barry's question, for reasons as stated by others. Now that the BoSox have finished up, maybe Mitchell will be winding up that investigation (unless he's too busy celebrating their victory).

ROFLMAO

sox=yankee light

Dave Sheinin's opening line in the gamer this morning made me laugh out loud:

"The Boston Red Sox on Sunday night graciously removed the crushing weight of baseball angst from all those blank-faced 2-year-olds toddling around New England wondering if they would ever see a World Series title in their lifetimes."

Great Line Dave but you missed the point.
Reality is, the 2-year olds can't see a World Series because they don't play the friggin games until WELL into the nights.

Nice try though, even for a Post scribe.

Agreed 304. That was a hilarious line.

Was in New Hampshire and Vermont last week. Sox fans (which it seems 90% of people there are -- seriously -- even if bandwagoneers) were engaged and eager to talk, whether about the near-loss to the Tribe or the then-upcoming Series. There were -- at least in the few dozen folks I encountered -- none of the sneers that characterize Yankee fans.

All fans are "woe is us" when their team is losing. What distinguishes them is how they act when their team is winning. So far, it seems that Sox fans are acting with a lot more class than Yankee fans would be.

I suppose that could change in time. When the Sox face the Nats in the WS, we can check the gauge again.

well that's it for me. I used to enjoy coming here and talking Nats and baseball in general with a very well-informed, polite group of perople. But after the last few days, I can't take it anymore. I'm usually one of the most tolerant people but I can't stand to read anymore of caphchky's mean-spirited comments. I respect his/her's right to comment and his/her's right to an opinion. But I alos respect everyone else's right as well and I would never respond as impolitely as caphcky has done over the past few days. So I bid everyone a fond adieu and hope that all the Nats fans will be enjoying October baseball at the new park in the not so distant future.

And Barry, thanks for all your wonderful work these past couple of years. I will truly miss your wit and wisdom next season. Good luck in China!!

Red Sox and their fans are indeed the Evil Empire North. Any "charm" that franchise once had has long worn off. I'm sure Sox fans would glady trade "charm" for two titles. But to the rest of us, fans like caphcky and their sense of entitlement, coupled with the incredible frontrunner nature of many of their newer bandwagon fans have moved that team into the realm of the Yankees. I smell a Patriots-Cowboys similarity these days too. (And no, I'm not a bitter Redskins fan).

"I can't stand to read anymore of caphchky's mean-spirited comments. I respect his/her's right to comment and his/her's right to an opinion. But I alos respect everyone else's right as well and I would never respond as impolitely as caphcky has done over the past few days."

Dear e;

Sorry that English course didn't work out for you. If you call me "mean-spirited" its gotta be your computer screen needs cleaning or your comprehension skills have deteriorated over your years.

bye though, I'll see ya around
:)

"fans like caphcky and their sense of entitlement, coupled with the incredible frontrunner nature of many of their newer bandwagon fans have moved that team into the realm of the Yankees. I smell a Patriots-Cowboys similarity these days too. (And no, I'm not a bitter Redskins fan)."

LOL HEY MOE!!!!
Sense of entitlement for what? Love it when fans use their BIG words and can't tie them together with a point.

A World Series Championship, A Super Bowl Championship is a VERY tangible thing that must be earned. You are not entitled to win one (or even compete for one). Its just another case of the "mid-atlantic" area whining about not being a sports town and when the fans of Red Sox Nation (for example) take over Baltimore, we're bandwagoners. ROFLMAO! Your witness.

e, don't go. I figure caphcky is like a crank caller--don't give him/her an audience; ignore him/her and he/she will stop calling.

Great to hear from the 400 level
(eye-roll)
ROFLMAO

The Sox deserve all the accolades. I am just so sad to see the Rockies go down this way. The real scary part is if the Rockies cant compete in the free agency market to even keep their own players. Then MLB becomes nothing more than a farm system for the few teams that can scrape the cream off the top.

The fact is that the Rockies were a hot team that represented a much weaker National League.

The Rockies can't compete in the free agency market is a cop-out and MLB can't
be blamed for that lie.

okay, everybody...it's time for us all to post to the "alternate" site instead, and DON"T ANYBODY DARE give caphcky the url. He can have this place all to himself :)

If you forgot the alternate url, email me directly and I'll send it to you outside of this forum.

I'll admit to being a Red Sox bandwaggoner. I did not get on board until July 1967, after their 10 game winning streak to pull into second. I totally missed Billy Rohr's 1 hitter the second game of the year. I think my excuse of only being 8 years old at the time is pretty lame.

I think the escalation of the Red Sox pay roll should make Steven and a few others feel some size envy. I don't get a sense of Red Sox fans feeling they are entitled to sympathy for this team. It is a fact that owners like Glass in KC, Pohlad in Minnesota (John in Mpls, back me up on that one), and the former owner of teh D-Rays used to have lower payrolls than their revenue sharing. Essentially, the yankees, red sox, angels, and few other teams were subsidizing their opponents.

I am one of those who left New England but remain loyal because it is in my blood. When I lived up in the Boston area, I used to fly to BWI to go to Memorial and Camden Yards. It is people like myself now who are responsible for filling a lot of empty seats in road stadiums, so if you want to complain about the Red Sox followers, fill your own stadium in, say, Atlanta, where you had a quality team for 14 years and had empty seats at playoff games not to mention the regular season.

Oh, and the Grady Sizemore deal - the Expos were in contention in 2002 at the time of the deal. Omar went for it. It'd be great to have him on the Nats, but that wasn't sabotage, that was trying to win.

Let's face a fact here - when we tried to get the Nats, we argued the area was a better financial market in term of per capita income and population than our rivals. We have a team that is 10th on the Forbes list of value. Even under dreaded MASN deal, we have one of the more lucrative TV contracts (though we despise who pays it). We should take with a grain of salt any comparison of this team to a true small market team.

When you don't like the tone of the conversation.....RUN!

ROFLMAO

I thought Boz was doing a chat today at 2, but it's not on the schedule anymore. Anyone know anything?

I know pi to 7 decimal places...

And also, Boz is listed at 2:00 tomorrow.

ROFLMAO- "Rolling On Floor Laughing My A** Off" For those of you who, like me, didn't know what it meant. Congrats to Red Sox Nation, including the boistrous caphcky, for 7 games of brilliant pitching, managing, fielding (even Big Papi)running (even Big Papi) and, big-league hitting. Congratulations on a truly classy MVP, Mike Lowell, third base, who the Marlins made the Red Sox take in order to get Beckett. You finally have ownership and management worthy of your fans, who keep the love of baseball burning brightly through long, cold winters. And for those of you who think what the Red Sox just did is easy, see Peter Anglos, 2007-present, and George Steinbrenner, 1977-1994.

Oh, and congrats to Barry, who predicted a sweep because the Sawx are "just going to crush Rockies pitching." And to Dave Sheinen, for his similar soothsaying.

I meant Angelos, 1997-present.

Barry picked Red Sox in five. Sheinin predicted a Red Sox sweep, and I thought he was out of his mind.

And let's not forget Boz, for that truly fabulous article on how and why Coors favored the Red Sox hitters. That was an eye-opener! And how great was it to see Dice-K, fallible and human, and Jon Lester of 4 chemo sessions this past winter, unawed by Coors Field! I wanted closer games and a game 7 - I got that with Cleveland. It's been a great season, even for those of us who rooted against the Red Sox. Now for the hot-stove league- did you know that Joe Morgan predicted A-rod would leave NY because he wants to play shortstop, and that middle position players - short, 2d, catcher, center field, generally just love their positions, and don't want to play anywhere else?

The ultimate irony may be if the Yankees go for a salary dump now that A-rod and Roger Clemens are gone, if Pettite, et al go too the Yankees would probably be at or just below $100M next year. Could Boston have MLB's top payroll in '08?

I can't wait to see the chaos that will be FA this year with all those former Yankees on the market. The trickle down of talent as teams dump payroll to make room or drop suddenly expendable personnel should make things lively and interesting. Not to mention give trader Jim plenty of opportunities to swoop in and make a few steals...

Speaking of the Yanks, according to the mlb.com site, they have offered the managerial position to Girardi.

If Caphky had been on this blog during the early part of this now past seasin, if would have explained the departure of NATSFANREDUX. That said, e this blog is composed of Nationals baseball fans with a great knowledge of the game and who conduct a well reasoned but sometime impassoned discussion of its finer points. Don't leave. Apparently Cky is a denizen of Boston and thus a temporary troll. His absence from the Caps site is welcome as from this will be welcome.

"NEW YORK -- Joe Girardi has reportedly been offered the Yankees' managerial job and is expected to accept the position."

I called this one.
_______________

Buck sez Girardi's in by December.
Posted by: NatsNut | October 7, 2007 07:13 PM

Barry;

In the end, it doesn't matter if you rally your cyber friends and call the Sox the "new yankees" or whatever.

At the end of this day, you will call them

2007 World Series Champions!

crickets chirping...

An excellent profile of Scott Boras in the New Yorker, entitled "The Extortionist."

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath

...and the haunting cry of a loon

---

crickets chirping...

And the Yankees replace a New York Italian-American with a young New York Italian-American who told his owner to "shut the f**k up" during a game when Jeffrey Lorea was doing a lame Mark Cuban imitation. Youth and vigor is good. see Manny Acta. But the Yanks need a 3rd baseman. (Although Mike Lowell world series MVP is available.) The Nats have a 3rd baseman. Would any of you trade Zimm for Johnny Damon?

You know JimBow will be on the phone to Brian Cashman w/I have a 3rd baseman. What would you take in trade for Zimmerman?

Flynnie that is a complete non-starter.

On the other hand, did anyone else see the Braves traded Edgar Rentaria to Detroit for a rookie pitcher and a CF prospect?

I'm tryong to wrap my brain around exactly what this means to the market for middle infielders

Damon for Zimmerman? Congrats flynnie, you've just proposed the stupidest trade I've ever heard of in my life. Well done - I think it takes real imagination, or a rollicking sense of humor, to come up with a trade that dumb.

I strongly doubt that the Nats would trade Zimmerman under any circumstances. If they did, the price would be more like Hughes and Cano, or Chamberlin and Cano, for Zimmerman and a low-level prospect. Somehow I doubt the Yankees are interested.

Renteria to Detroit? That's a surprise, but I knew that they were moving Guillen to first base, as he really just can't play SS anymore. I think it's a good one for the Tigers - the AL Central is gonna be an even bigger fight next year.

I'd also consider flynnie's proposed trade to be a non-starter ("dumb" or "stupid" would not be my chosen adjectives, however; "interesting," perhaps).

The trade market should be fascinating. Not sure Damon will be a part of it though.

Please, let's at least give flynnie credit for thinking outside the box. All of us -- if we're honest and imaginative, anyway -- will be touching the hot stove with a bare hand at least once this offseason.

Acidic imprecations are best left to other posters, and better yet to other blogs.

"I'd also consider flynnie's proposed trade to be a non-starter ("dumb" or "stupid" would not be my chosen adjectives, however; "interesting," perhaps)."

You are probably a much kinder person than I am, natsfan1a. But the trade is manifestly ridiculous. Johnny Damon, whatever great things he has done in the past, is a brittle player on the downside of his career. He's also quite expensive. Why on earth would the Nats trade a younger, cheaper, better player who plays a more exacting defensive position (3B vs LF) for a guy who is inferior in all of those aspects? A moment's thought would have made that clear. But I don't want to violate community standards and/or feel, so I will be nicer in the future. But I reserve the right to call silly proposals, silly.

Thanks, Hendo, but if I'm not mistaken, Barry suggested that Damon would be an answer for the Nats, as cf is their greatest need, and Damon has 2 years left in him. It doesn't fit The Plan, but it is fun to suddenly have something that the Yankees need. However, when their 1st baseman got spiked in Boston, I thought they'd be calling for The Yule Log. (Could Colorado have used Dmitry in their line-up? Just for the odd single with risp!) Although the Yankees now have lots of $$$ and could replace A-Rod with a more clutchy hitter and break Boston's heart all in one swoop by signing Mike Lowell. Zimm's sophomore slump could turn permanent under the wilting lights of the NY media.

No problem, Deb -- not to speak for natsfan1a by any means, but she is indeed a fair-minded person.

Touching the hot stove myself, as I have before: I'm still interested in Ian Snell, who has expressed public disenchantment with the Pirates' perpetual futility.

No, I don't want to make a habit of trading for pitching -- the Nats should be growing that, where possible, not buying it. Still, he could be a mid-rotation solution, possibly at a reasonable price. (Not to worry; Zimm is off the table.)

Thoughts?

Deb - would you trade Zim for hughes and Cano? Natsfan1a - you restore one's faith in human goodness. Would you make that trade? If Zimm had Wright's numbers, I could see the Yankees doing it, but he doesn't, and we are all assuming that he will be another David Wright.

Oh, I don't know about that, Deb, but thank you. I do take your point on the trade.

flynnie, but what would we do without Da Yule Log to get us through the cold, dark days of winter? As the Book of Veeck tells us, there are two seasons -- baseball and winter...

Hendo, that would be something if your custom Snell t-shirt (if I recall correctly) and the S-man himself could co-exist at [Nationals Park].

---

You are probably a much kinder person than I am, natsfan1a.

Yeah, but flynnie wasn't advocating the trade, just asking what others think of it. I mean, I don't agree with the guy (gal?) all of the time, but it's not like they were saying "ZIMMERMAN FOR DAMON NOW!" I wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal, but the Braves are going to need a center fielder, and we've got a pretty decent one who could probably use a change of venue. So, what do the Nats ask for in exchange for Ryan Church?

Thank you, flynnie.

---

Natsfan1a - you restore one's faith in human goodness.

How 'bout Snell (4.40 lifetime ERA and falling) and Jason Bay? What would the nats have to give up? and Atlanta, would you take Andruw if you were the Nats? What did he bat this year-.220?

"So, what do the Nats ask for in exchange for Ryan Church?"

1. If they're smart, they stick with Church.

2. Rickie Weeks from the Brewskis, who need a more productive CF solution (both with leather and bat) than Bill Hall. But then what do we do with Belliard?

John Shuerholz says that no-one, not even Chipper Jones, is worth more than $10 million a year. Does this mean that the Nats get Torii Hunter for $11M for 8 years?

Natfan1A - love the Bill Veeck quote! Here's one for you, and it's my favorite A-Rod quote, from a lazy Saturday afternoon when ESPN radio was asking random questions in a series of interviews with eminent athletes"

"Question: True or False - Country Music was invented by the devil in hell."

"A-rod, laughing, then,"True!"

He was playing with the Rangers at the time.

Big question mark on Bay, flynnie, but good call on a possible piece of Buc trade bait.

It would be nice to know why Bay had such an off year this season. (Maybe it was just his troublesome right knee, which presumably will heal in time, but still.)

(I appreciate that, and thank you Hendo.)

I'd certainly be happy to take Snell - 3.76 ERA with 208 IP and .264 BA looks good to me. I have no idea what the Pirates would want in return. They're definitely set at LF (Bay), 2B (Sanchez), and 1B (Laroche). The Pirates seem pretty set in general in the outfield. What they need is starting pitching, but then so do we. Do we have a SS or 3B prospect that might interest them? Or an extra catcher (not Schneider or Flores, I wouldn't think.) They could use an improvement over Paulino.

I'd actually love for the Nats to make a run at Matt Clement. When healthy (I know, I know) he is a good pitcher. After the surgeries and the rehab, I think he might actually be healthy now. But then, everyone else needs pitching too. Other available FA starters include Mike Maroth, Jae Seo, Jaret Wright, Victor Zambrano, Curt Schilling, possibly Julian Tavarez.

"The Pirates seem pretty set in general in the outfield."

Hmm... Chris Duffy? I dunno. Church would seem to be a marked improvement, especially batwise.

"Deb - would you trade Zim for hughes and Cano?"

Honestly flynnie, if I were the *Yankees* I wouldn't make that trade. But I do think the Nats' starting price would or should be around there. Zim is the cornerstone of the team, so I think the price starts a little higher just from that. It would likely be negotiated down in serious talks. But then, I might be reacting from my attachment to Zim and dislike for those guys in the Bronx.

(You know, I reacted as if you were a Yankee fan suggesting that trade. I realize have no basis for assuming that, and I'm sorry. [It's the kind of suggestion I see in lots of other places on the web, and I reacted accordingly.] Of course, it's not that Yankee fans shouldn't get to post here and suggest trades, but the context is a little different then.)

By the way, the Red Sox equivalent to Hughes and Cano would be Buchholz and Pedroia, which as a Red Sox fan I wouldn't do. (Although Hughes has yet to throw a no-hitter.) What I *might* do is Ellsbury and Masterson (if Masterson is a good enough prospect) for Zimmerman. Just typing that gives me agita on both ends. (Red Sox brain - "we can't give up Ellsbury!" Nationals brain - "we can't give up Zimmerman!") Let me stress again that I don't think that will happen. Also, I understand per Ladson that the Nats don't want Crisp. I'm disappointed, but I understand the thinking completely.

"Hmm... Chris Duffy? I dunno. Church would seem to be a marked improvement, especially batwise."

Oh certainly he would. But I think the Pirates are actually thinking of their prospect Nyjer Morgan (.299/.359/430 in 107 AB.) That's what the MLB Pirates beat reporter says, anyway. Bay, Morgan, and Nady with McLouth as the 4th outfielder. Morgan and Church are both left-handed, so platooning them probably wouldn't work. Of course, Church's BA and SLG are about the same as Nady's, and he has a better OBP than Nady... More 2007 ABs than Nady too.

Ellsbury and Masterson, hmmm...

Zimm for those guys? No.

But our infield rates to be overstuffed. But... Bells? No. Guzie? No. (Probably.) Da Meat? No...

Now I'm getting agita...

nice one, flynnie

on the renteria trade - Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez. Jurrjens was a regular in their rotation down the stretch. Hernandez I had heard fo but was not tracking. I think Baseball America liked him a lot. Fits the ATL model of getting young OF types early and molding them in the system rather than a just ready high minors guy who is already formed. As I think Bob L Head has pointed out, they traded Edgar from depth, to allow Escobar to take over. Comparable move might be if SEattle were to move Ibanez for a guy who did well in low A and say John Lannan.

No, the Nats are not likely to trade Zim. Much more likely to tie him up with a long term contract.

I'm betting on a couple of things this off season:

1. Nothing of any significance until A-Rod signs. To a certain extent that sets the bar, salarywise and the mental dominoes in motion (ahh, can I give up my shortstop for 50 HR and a ton of $$$$?). Very similar to questions that surrounded managerial prospects (if NYY ties up Mattingly, then Girardi goes to LA/D and frees up Grady Little, etc.). My bet is the Dodgers. They desperately need both a bat and an attraction. A-Rod provides both. He also could provide the cornerstone to a TV network, a la YES. One would also presume that his non-baseball contract prospects would improve. D. Jeter is king of NYC. Question is what endorsements would be available, in LA that are taken by Jeter in NYC?

2. The Nats won't do anything spectacular this year for a number of reasons. First, they absolutely need to find out how GEICO/FBR/MARS Park will play. Second, they have a number of serious prospects with only one or two years (or less) of minor league experience. It will be at least June or July before they can get a real handle on how soon they will be able to progress. There may not be a need for a CF in '09. There may be a serious need for a big time 1B in '09 (I love DaMeat, but...). Is '07A or '07B the real Austin Kearns? Too many real unanswered questions to make multi-year, multi $million commitment this year. Sure, pick up a Johnny Damon, if you can get him for a couple of mediocre prospects and a not overboard price, but certainly not a cornerstone of the next decade + like Zimm.

Oh, and as for a Zimmerman trade, look to LAA. They could use a 3d baseman, are likely bidders on A-Rod. Zimmerman going forward might be better than Lowell and there isn't much else out there. As for what to ask back, start with a high prospect starter (Nick Adenhart in AA), maybe a AAA starter whose could come in as a #4, Erick Aybar (top tier SS who is blocked), and Kendry Morales (who I think they have played at 3d). But at this point, I have no basis for saying what fair market value is for Zimmerman, player #10 in Bill James list of young stars.

Catcher50 makes some good points:

"The Nats won't do anything spectacular this year for a number of reasons. First, they absolutely need to find out how GEICO/FBR/MARS Park will play. Second, they have a number of serious prospects with only one or two years (or less) of minor league experience. . . ."

All true. And, particularly with respect to not knowing how the new park will play (a point I continue to harp on).

But I keep hearing that Church and Cordero are on the block. Is that bad? (Arguably, and for substantive reasons, yes.)

Still, given that Zimm is off the table, and those guys are on it, one has to wonder what the Nats would be thinking about in trade for either or both of them. Maybe nothing spectacular, but still something useful?

Thanks, Hendo.

I think that you've got it right about Church and Chad. Both are expendable right now. We're back to the true definition of Ryan Church, which is a very good fourth outfielder on a pennant contender. Let's face it, he really can play all three OF spots, but, does not have the true speed or bat to be a top end CF, doesn't have the rifle to play right on a W/S contender and doesn't have the heavy duty bat to be an everyday LF.

Chad (God and the local cardiology society bless him) is a very good closer...just not "lights out". For the next year or two, Rauch will do fine, thank you.

And while we're at it... what shall we do with Felipe Lopez?

(Besides hold on to him, which to me is an untenable option.)

understatement of the century
______

Chad (God and the local cardiology society bless him) is...just not "lights out".

And once again, Hendo posts the question to be answered at a later date. What do we do with FLop?

Is he a solid 2nd base who, in his comfort zone, can be a very good hitter for the 8 slot? Or is he a less than average SS whose fielding woes make him a candidate for anyone else to be in the lineup?

Of course, he is both. If he could be penciled in at 2nd 150 games a year, keep him and count on him, long term. If he plays 30 games at 2nd and 120 at short, he weakens both infield and batting order.

It's nice to be able to make these decisions from my own home and not have to spend my actual budget and anger the press and paying customers.

Nice to see the chatter getting back to the Nats. It will be an intersting off season, what with the winter meetings and all. I'd expect JimBow to be a bit more active this time around as far as the bats are concerned. Congrats to the Red Sox, we'll be gunnin for ya in 11 or 12...hopefully. GO NATS...HEAT UP

If Cordero is actually being shopped this winter I think it would be prudent to hang onto him until mid season of 08. His value as a commodity would increase if a team that has injured or worn old relievers finds that they suddenly need that extra arm to maintain a drive to a pennant. Right now I am sure most GMs see him for his worth and we would not get much in return for him. Hopefully, he won't have too many blown saves totaled in July.

I'm surprised Detroit gave up that much for Renteria. Jair Jurrjens is 21 and has already reached the majors. He projects as a middle of the rotation starter and is expected to compete for a spot in the Braves rotation in 2008. He was the #4 prospect in the Tigers' system.

Gorkys Hernandez is a 20-year old leadoff-hitting centerfielder, the #7 prospect in their system and the highest rated position player outside of Cameron Maybin.

So, roughly, John Lannan and Justin Maxwell for Renteria. Zoiks. I wish we had a Renteria to trade.

This is what Atlanta does, deal from strength. It's the reason they are always in the mix. But, it wasn't always that way, and in due time the Nats should be in such a position where they can deal from strength. When that happens...we've arrived.

Hendo, you might be on to something, the Brewers just paid Geoff Jenkins $1 million not to play for them in 2008 and are said to be in the market for a "stopgap left fielder."

I just looked up "stopgap left fielder" on Wikipedia and there was a picture of Ryan Church on there.

Church for Rickie Weeks?

Let's see how Weeks compares to Lopez:

Weeks: .249/.357/.410; 19HRs, 57RBIs, 30SBs
Lopez: .258/.328/.396; 14HRs, 64RBIs, 22SBs

So you probably take Weeks over Lopez, particularly since he just turned 25 (Lopez will be 28 in May). But it's not a slam dunk. And then what do you do in center? The dropoff from Church (or a Church/Logan platoon) to Logan solo more than offsets any gain achieved by acquiring Weeks.

On balance I remain in favor of platooning Church and Logan to start 2008 and hoping that they, along with Guzman and Lopez, do well enough to generate some interest at the trade deadline.

Boy, did Boz ever nail it on the head this morning, re time of games.

Yes, young fans are being lost. (Old ones too.) Yes, MLB must act.

Posted by: Bob L. Head | October 30, 2007 10:19 AM....... On balance I remain in favor of platooning Church and Logan to start 2008 and hoping that they, along with Guzman and Lopez, do well enough to generate some interest at the trade deadline.

NO WAY am I willing to go into another season (or pay for another Season Ticket) with that as the plan. Time has come to raise the bar from a plan that hopes for the best from sub par players.....Time has come to upgrade CF and Starting Pitching as well as SS/Bench. NO LOGAN NO BASICK NO LOPEZ.....or do not ask me to pay for a 5th year of season tickets!

Nats just re-signed Bacsik to a non-guaranteed Minor-League contract with an invite to Spring Training.

Also, Robert Fick filed for free agency.

I noted, with interest, that Fick had filed for F/A. While I really like him in the clubhouse and as a 25th man on the roster, I certainly understand his motivation.

He needs to be on a Major League roster through Sept. 1 to be fully vested in the pension system. All things considered, the Nats are probably prepared to not sign him and he is much more likely to go for the minimum to be a stopgap for someone like KC or TB that may be looking for a good clubhouse guy who is a cheap warm body.

I hope that, after next year, the Nats are able to find a F.O. spot for him.

"I hope that, after next year, the Nats are able to find a F.O. spot for [Fick]."

Or a coaching job on the field. Imagine what he could do working with some of our minor-league guys. (Assuming he doesn't turn out to be a prankster in the Wetteland mold.)

That would be great! Just have to keep the bobbleheads well hidden...

---

(Assuming he doesn't turn out to be a prankster in the Wetteland mold.)

Whew, every time I go on a trip someone who is awesome leaves us. Last time we lost Natscan, now e. This is very upsetting.

For those who didn't google "caphcky", this is what you should know, from DC Sports Blog:

"caphcky is a troll on the Capitals' official message boards. He has been banned nummerous [sic] times, and every time he comes back under a new name, it's pretty easy to figure out due to his extremely poor writing skills. When we figure it out, it is usually before the moderators, and we all start chiming in "Hi Caphcky!" as a way of getting the moderator's attention. The mod then usually does an IP check, realizes it's him, and suspends him from the message boards.

"Posted by: FS | November 21, 2006 01:48 PM"

Czaban said it last night. A blockbuster movie over 2 hours is too long. Even if it is an outstanding movie. Baseball, the beloved game, was meant to be finished in 2 hours. SPEED IT UP BUD!

From Boz's column today. Hilarious.
_____

"A-Rod realizes his natural home is Los Angeles, where winning isn't everything, but looking good while losing is."

baseball would have a clock if it intended timely restrictions.

Are the games too long?

Probably.

Do I miss them already (regardless of who's playing)?

Definitely.

As Bill James pointed out, baseball used to have a clock. It was called the sun. Before floodlighting became the norm, games started in midafternoon and were expected to end before it got dark, even in late September in the Northeast.

Here's the other thing. They need to JUST PLAY BASEBALL. None of this fussing with gloves, circumnavigating the mound, etc.

JUST PLAY BASEBALL. If that principle were held to and enforced, the tedium would dry up overnight. Why, people who profess to hate the sport now might even find that they enjoy it!

The current tempo can only dribble fans away.

answers: all

we are definitely not going to trade zimmerman.

and david wrights stats are bloated. comparing his straight up with zimmerman's without considering reyes/beltran/delgado/etc/etc is a joke. deep down inside i bet the mets would prefer zimmerman (+ glove) over wright (+ stolen bases).

torre + arod again? that's hilarious. i'm just glad it will be all late games, east coast unite.

i still have another year's patience for felipe lopez, hopefully at 2b. i refuse to call him "FLOP."

johnny damon, no thanks.

offseason to do list: extend zimmerman longterm. trade nick johnson. teach (force feed) 1b to marrero. increase mcgeary's workload (24 credits a semester please), find hitting coach-in-waiting, name the stadium, buy Baseball America lunch.

"Do I miss [the games] already (regardless of who's playing)? Definitely."

Me too, although I appreciate the chance to recharge a bit.

It's that first few weeks after the regular season that are toughest for me. (Particularly was this true after the 2005 season, when it was by no means clear what was going to happen with regard to the Nats' second season -- if there even was going to be a second season.)

Now, especially with the WS over, we can step back with a wistful sigh and turn our attention to important matters like business, Thanksgiving, the hot stove, and the fact that pitchers and catchers report in 108 days. Not that I'm counting.

longterm,

I like your to do list, except for trading Nick. What would we get for him now, a bucket of chicken?

Having two solid hitting first basemen for next year is just fine. Worst case we pay Young and Johnson a combined $10m the next two years until, God Willing, Marrero is ready for the majors. Best case one of the two goes via trade a brings back some nice prospects in return.

One other thing I'd like to see the Nats do is sign Alexei Ramirez. He can play CF, SS and 2B, all positions of need. Also, signing him won't require an exorbinate amount of money (est. $4M/yr for 3-4 yrs is very doable) and since he is a Cuban defector we don't have to give up and draft picks for signing him.

Having him makes Guzman and/or Lopez expendable and until we're ready to part with either he can platoon with Church in CF.

Having Alexei Ramirez on the roster would also entitle the Nats' clubhouse to a free subscription to "Modern Maturity."

Oh, all right... maybe not all Cuban players lie about their age. And his numbers are pretty good. Besides, as estuartj notes, his eclectic skill set fits pretty well with the Nats' needs.

Also, this will churn the beer of the owner up the Parkway, who loathes Cuban defectors. (Considering what Angelos got in Raffy Palmeiro, I guess we can't blame him much.)

Can I give a big thumbs down on time limits? The best part of baseball is that it finishes when it's done, not at an arbitrary time.

I have a solution to the batter who takes an extra time out and waits around: fastball, high and inside.

"I have a solution to the batter who takes an extra time out and waits around: fastball, high and inside."

But, dammit, they all do it. Not that an open season of headhunting wouldn't add snap and verve to the game. It would, however, accentuate the fact that the umps aren't doing their jobs re keeping the game moving.

No stopwatches are required. The men in blue simply have to (1) not grant batters automatic timeouts between pitches and (2) not tolerate pitchers' continually wandering the infield grass.

Those seem reasonable requests. Again, it's about JUST PLAYING BASEBALL.

From Bill Ladson's post.....In 2007, Fick played in 118 games and hit .234 with two home runs and 16 RBIs......and some of you want him back? 16 RBI's in 118 games......those numbers, his poor fielding and his mind boggling base running all hurt the Nats more than helped. To be a club house leader you must be respected for your abilities.....in this light Fick was a joke.

For two cents here is my idea for cutting down the time. Have a crisp, clear definition of a balk move that includes actually moving toward home plate but limit the number of throws a pitcher can make to first. How many five minute at bats have we seen were the pitch never got delivered to home plate? I get a little irritated (as you see) with pitchers lobbing throws to first.

Interesting idea re throws to first, Dale, but it'll never happen.

Reason: Same as why they still make the pitcher throw four times on an intentional walk... fans deserve the chance to boo.

Besides, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that Holliday pickoff for anything (although IIRC it was on the first throw to the bag).

Yep, I know it will never happen. Neither will limiting commercials to 2 minutes, nor requiring the batters to use the ash bats again that dont shatter as much. How about calling a strike by the book definition? That would certainly speed up the game.

i bet if we dropped buck/mccarver nobody would notice how long the postseason games run into the night.

just to clarify trading nick johnson isnt something we have to do immediately. especially since he's the only hitter who brings a high obp. but he's definitely on the chopping block. and i do like me some chicken if that's what they are offering. i'll leave it up to bowden if we can get extra crispy or rotisserie.

Chicken and Nick Johnson.....do not say that in the same sentence...... he will eat it all.....he must have been over 300 lbs when he reported last March!

Aw give Nick a break. How much cd he work out with his injury?

I'm so pleased to be back talking Nats and baseball. Does anyone know if Barry or someone else will continue to post things on NJ in the off season? Does it happen only when there's news? Once a week? Never? Will some other writer start doing it?

A couple of random thoughts on subjects brought up here in the last 24 hours.

1. Nick Johnson should not be traded. I don't see how the Nats ever get fair value for him. If he's healthy, they should keep him because he's one of the better offensive players in the National League. If he's hurt, all they'll get for him is two broken bats and a pop-up toaster. The only thing that will happen there is that he'll go to another team, get healthy, and be a productive, and the Nats will have gotten nothing in return.

2. Trading Zimmerman would be a horrible PR move. Don't underestimate that because for this team to compete long term, it needs money and a strong fan base. Losing him would be a blow. Sure they might improve the talent base some if they got Cano and Hughes (although I don't think even Brian Cashman is that stupid), but psychologically for the franchise it would hurt.

3. I'm with catcher50. The Nats will do very little this off-season. I think that's the prudent way to go. They shouldn't have continual turn over. Let's see what Maxwell can do. I'm willing to give Kearns and Lopez one more full year in a better hitters park. My guess is they won't amount to much, but they're still fairly young. Patience is the key to building something that lasts. They need continuity right now.

4. We should blame long games mostly on the Moneyball philosophy and the rise in the smaller ball parks. If you watch games on ESPN Classic batters are up there hacking. There wasn't the emphasis on running up pitch counts and drawing walks up and down the line up. That leads to longer ABs and more pitching changes. In addition because the pitchers weren't terrified of giving up the long ball to any hitter #'s1-9, they also attacked the strike zone more. Yes, the commercials, the between at-bat rock music, etc. don't help either, but it's more this other stuff. Remember also that shorter games mean less scoring. That would be OK with me but might turn away the casual fan.

#4, given Barry's comments in his latest posting (see snippet below) and his prior comments, it sounds like there will be postings in the offseason, but not as frequently as during the regular season. That stove will be firing up soon enough (yay!)...

---

With the conclusion of the postseason coming in the next few days, we'll re-focus the Journal back on the Nationals. The GM meetings begin Nov. 5, which is right around the corner, and we'll start to get back into some Hot Stove talk.

Thanks, natsfan1a

You're welcome. I'll be watching for my (Postseason? Hot Stove?) Journal fixes, too!

Natsfan1a:

I'm hoping that the group will keep chatting away regardless of whether there are new posts. The NFL, NBA, and NHL all bore me to tears.

Don't trade Nick...not just yet. Lets see if we can get him healthy first before the trade thought is even considered again. Perhaps the one to trade, should Nick fully recover, would be the face of the offseason Journal page...Mr Comeback himself. D Young was just super last year, but we know what the upside of a healthy NJ can be. A little patience is needed here, no rush needed. These things have a way of working there way out. On another note, John Patterson...I wonder how he is coming along. The 2005 season still burns in my mind with his electric stuff. I'd like to think they will give him one more shot, as pitching still remains a priority for this team. Well, I suppose we can all jump on the stadium web cam and watch the grass being laid. I think they start that 11/1. Now, thats when it really starts to become a ballpark!

The Clark boys are building the mound at the Navy Yard. Take a look at the Clark camera. The infield is laid out, and they've started (as of 9:58am on 10/31) the front slope of the mound facing the batter. Looks like the rubber has already been placed. This is like waiting for your first house to be built!!

Washington Times has an interesting short article on fan attendance and DC as a tourist destination.

Essentially points out that DC being one of the top US tourist destinations will always provide a small cushion for attendance numbers because folks will come to see the park and take in a game regardless of who is playing. Interesting view, and sounds somewhat legit although I'm sure its not that significant of a number. But some is better than none!

In the cruel office of Section 506, General Manager, both Nick Johnson and Dmitri Young are being shopped around the AL as designated hitters. He expects to get a lot better for Nicky J than for Da Meat, because of the career stats. But he knows that neither can answer the needs at first in 2010, because neither can play well defensively - Meat, because he's not the best, Nick, because he will never have the range he once had. Either could do until another first baseman can be found, but, to get something back, NJ has to go.

Section 506, fan, is crying like a baby.

Before we all start going crazy hoping that the team will be completely overhauled this off season we need to remember that 90% of the rebuilding for next year has already taken place. Look at the huge amount of turnover that took place during the season in '07...

The keys to success (ie 82+ wins in '08) is going to depend on 3 things.

1. Stability in the staring rotation. Having 11 SP compete for 5 slots is a lot better than 37, and hopefully we'll only need 6-7 SP in '08 instead of 13.

2. Health and productivity from Christian Guzman and Nick Johnson. NJ is the motor that runs the Nats offense - having a high OBP lefty in the middle of the order helps everyone around him - and even a career avg Guzman (instead of the low of '05 or high of the short stint of '07). Makes a huge difference in our overall productivity.

3. Return to form of Ryan Zimmerman, Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez and Brian Schneider. The new stadium will go a long way to getting Kearns and Lopez head back on straight and should improve the potential productivity of Zim and Schneider dramatically.

CF is still a question mark, but as with the above mentioned personel Church should benefit from the new ballpark (maybe 25 of those 50 doubles will be HRs?) and lessen the need for a platoon, although a decent right handed slugging CF to platoon with him is not unthinkable, and much more affordable than a Jones, Hunter or Rowand until J-Max is ready for the big time.

#4, I hope so, too. I share your ennui regarding the other sports.

G-town, I saw that, too. Interesting piece.

SC and 6th & D, I'm lovin' the construction cam...

either way. if we end next year with both nick johnson and dmitri young still on this team i would consider it a big setback. dmitri may return better prospects or he may not. i'd prefer to keep the better of the two since neither will return any marquee players. we might as well flip a coin deciding who is the right guy to keep. the real problem is neither can play anywhere but 1b, they are both major injury concerns and are left handed. this has to be a big issue on the minds of this team. are we better off with nick or meathook? well, that depends on what other teams needs are also. i like them both, but someone has to go. i doubt it will happen this offseason but it would be great if we could get value sooner rather than later.

Actually, longterm, Meat is a switch hitter. He's pretty good from both sides, too. And I think Nick would return more prospects than Dmitri would.

Dmitri is a classic "loaner" type trade (vet for a year to someone that has a specific need in the run up to the playoffs, probably dumped at the end of the year).

Johnson, on the other hand, would make a good DH, because of his great OBP and slugging abilities. He could be on a team for four or five years.

Which would you trade more for?

"Which would you trade more for?"

The guy who projects to a longer and healthier career. I'm not convinced that's Nick.

"either way. if we end next year with both nick johnson and dmitri young still on this team i would consider it a big setback"

Not me. Comeback player of the year, contender for the NL batting title in the vasty deeps of RFK, our personal Yule Log and Nick the Great? What a fine problem to have. The Nats just have to play them both every day, becasue they are hyper-active and will sour on the bench.

Sorry for the dark period. New post is up -- with 2008 tentative schedule.

ouch, good call he's a switchhitter. still they are not a tandem. meat would make a nice role player/pinch hitter for some stud AL team i suppose. and i still think nick johnson fits the redsox perfectly. although his health is making him a wait and see move.

how about we trade meathook and nick the stick is comeback player of the year?

i really wouldn't know who to keep. i'm sure some teams would prefer one over the other. i cannot see them both playing here every day though. our pitching needs all the defense it can get. that's why i can't see it working with both. maybe manny is the greatest ego massager of all time and both of them would be happy 3-4 days a week together. maybe they can both hit over .300 sharing time and be the best pinch hitter in the game together. here's hoping...

this is a big year coming up personnel wise.

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