Yup.

Schneider's a gamer but one who was dramatically overpaid with an anemic slugging % of .336. I liked Church, but let's face it, Church got his big opportunity last year and did little with it and now at age 29, he is what he is.

Milledge on the other hand is a good player now and given 500 at bats in a non-RFK-sized park, he has a chance to be great.

Good day for the Nats. Over at ESPN.com Keith Law calls the trade a "heist" for us.

Like it a lot. We're not going to improve by being bystanders.. No pain, no gain.

mixed feelings about what this means for the lineup...lastings isnt really a leadoff hitter, which we need. he could be a dynamic center fielder, but when it comes to the line up, our biggest problem last year in my opinion, this doesn't do much. i liked a church kearns pena outfield and schnieder at least platooning with flores, why? because it gives the lineup balance. church and schnieder are both lefties. now we are left with nick johnson as the lone lefty, with FLop guzie and meathook as switch hitters.

A good trade. Schneider's best years are behind him. He is not a building block for a pennant winner. Great guy, perhaps a future coach, though.

Church is older than Milledge and needed a change of atmosphere.. and much as many of us thought he could develop, he's pushing 30. Outfielders that hit .270 and get 15 HRs are not that hard to find.

Milledge has speed and a LOT more potential.

now let's do what omar never could. package something with milledge to oakland for haren...

I can't stand the trade. I was a part of Church's congregation and although Schneider couldn't hit I know he helped our horrendous pitching staff. I'm not sold on Lastings Millege even if everyone entering the park next got one of his CD's free next year. What is Bowden trying to go after every piece of garbage attitude? I'm surprised we didn't get Elijah Dukes...
BOWDEN WE NEED PITCHING AND CHARACTER!!! Bowden must have made this trade as he was getting pulled over for yet another DUI

imagine if we had no baseball in DC. where would our focus be? wizards, no arenas; redskins, ugh...

these moves are nice but i'm wondering when our stud starter arrives. without our favorite defensive catcher we need a top starter to set an example to young fellas. i don't want livan. i want 200k monster.

Like the trade.

We recoup at least 5 mil in salary on this deal too, don't we?

Keith Law's take (as mentioned by others) is behind the Insider wall at ESPN; here it is for those without such access:

Lastings Milledge is still one of the better young outfield prospects in the game. By dealing him for an awful player in Brian Schneider, the Mets sold low on a former first-round pick with a lot of upside and committed two years and too much money to a catcher who can't hit.

The Mets get ... nothing, or close to it. Schneider will earn $10.3 million over the next two years to sit behind the plate when the rules call for it, and to make 300-odd outs at the plate while hitting .230/.320/.330 or thereabouts. He is the definition of replacement level -- his offensive production was roughly as valuable as what Guillermo Quiroz did in eleven plate appearances for Texas last year -- and paying him $10 million is bad enough. Giving up something of value to acquire that contract is horrible. It would be better to pay Johnny Estrada $3-4 million to be bad for one year than Schneider over $10 million to be worse for two years.

There's a small silver lining for the Mets in the acquisition of Ryan Church, a capable platoon bat in left or right field if you have a right-handed caddy for him. Unlike Schneider, he has value on a big league roster, but even swapping Milledge straight-up for Church wouldn't make sense because of Church's struggles against lefties, his long history of minor injuries, his age and his expense as a super-two player this winter.

Milledge could easily be the second-best hitter in the Nationals' lineup in 2008, and moved back to his natural position of center field, he gives them two plus defenders on the field as well. Milledge has quick wrists with line-drive power, and good plate coverage. His pitch recognition is weak right now, and he's vulnerable to anyone who can change speeds. This wasn't as much of a problem for him in the minors, so there's reason to expect an improvement. He played mostly right field in the majors for the Mets and never adjusted to the different looks a fielder gets from that position, but in center field, he has plus range and an above-average arm. He's probably not a star, but he projects as an above-average bat who plays a good defensive center field, and Washington has his rights for the next five years. Milledge's value was down due to some concerns over his attitude, but those were really overblown, and Washington just picked up a good prospect for about 20 cents on the dollar.

The only way this deal doesn't turn out to be a disaster for the Mets -- second in this decade only to the Victor Zambrano-Scott Kazmir deal -- is if Milledge doesn't pan out as a hitter, and the smart money is that he will. This is a heist for Washington, and a serious mismanagement of assets for the Mets.

I hate this trade -- the team's character has been damaged for a prospect which has, to this point, failed. I wouldn't have traded either of these players even up for Lastings Millidge. I guess when Delmon Young got traded we had to get the most questionable character available.

Interesting on what the other catcher move is going to be -- has Barrett signed anywhere yet?

If Manny vouches for him, that's a lot. If the worst thing said about him is his taste in pop music, Manny's nihil obstat is good enough for me (for now). Mind you, if he starts singing Sweet Caroline, I may have to reconsider.

**********
WE NEED PITCHING AND CHARACTER!!! Bowden must have made this trade as he was getting pulled over for yet another DUI
Posted by: NatsFan | November 30, 2007 04:12 PM

Wow! LM's Wikipedia entry has already been updated, listing him as a Nat.

You mean Bennett?

I think this will ultimately be a great deal for the Nats, although like many I will miss Schneider, mostly for his character and smarts. However, his bat (or lack thereof) killed us last year.

The Nats just signed a minor league veteran catcher, didn't they? That would be putting a lot on Flores, but I think he'll be OK (probably more than OK).

That they saved payroll probably means something big is about to happen either in trade or a free agent signing. They had $10 million plus headroom to stay within the Conventional Wisdom budget... now they have $15 million.

Get your popcorn and stare are your RSS feeds.

Ok, let's think for one second. At Bat, for At Bat... at the end of the year, who has better numbers? Millidge or Justin Maxwell - who happens to be a quality kid, from the area? This is a trade for trades sake. How about if we give up any current starters, it is for starting pitchers? Mediocre for Mediocre is what this is.

Bowden Trades I can Remember

Guillen for Rivera/Itsuris (draw)
Spivey for Ohka (loss)
Soriano for Wilkerson/Sledge (win)
Chico/Mock for Hernandez (win)
Snelling/Fruto (Ultimately Pena) for Vidro (win)
Milledge for Schnieder/Church (Win)
Wilson (Mookie's son) for Day (?) (draw)
Kearns/Lopez/Wagner for Bray et al (Win)

What am I missing.

Bowden seems to be doing pretty good on trades to me.

thumbs up. very sorry to lose brian, but that's the price you have to pay in making trades, you sometimes have to give up things you like to make yourself better.

Wow.

On the one hand, I'm devastated. Brian Schneider has been my favorite Nat.

On the other hand:

1) Milledge may be the real deal. Don't think the trigger would have been pulled without Manny vouching for him.

2) They must think Flores is ready. No point in sending him to Columbus now so a career back-up can catch in DC. And who needs Michael Barrett? Note: Flores is older than Rodriguez & Bench were when they became regulars, so 22 is not too young to be a quality catcher. Not that I'm comparing ...

Prediction: Church will be a quality player in NY. Alou is 40+, S Green is on his last legs. He should have an opportunity to play 4 days a week, which seems like the optimum for him.

Maxwell was *NOT* going to be the starting CF next year. don't get ahead of yourself.

and if he's up in 2009, we can deal with which of the 4 OFs to trade/make a bench player then.

besides, maxwell hasn't ever been as highly rated/regarded as milledge has. and i'm not sure he'd rank as high right now if they were on one list with baseball america (anyone have access to check that out?

==================
Ok, let's think for one second. At Bat, for At Bat... at the end of the year, who has better numbers? Millidge or Justin Maxwell - who happens to be a quality kid, from the area? This is a trade for trades sake. How about if we give up any current starters, it is for starting pitchers? Mediocre for Mediocre is what this is.

Posted by: 6th and D | November 30, 2007 04:30 PM

Milledge is 1.5 years younger than Maxwell and already a near .800 OPS guy at the ML level. He's immediately a far better prospect than JMax, and I love JMax.

http://milledgefacts.blogspot.com/

Great move. Love it. Flores was a bigger value than Schneider by the end of last season. Church was average. This kid has a shot to be very good, so let's see how he develops. We have some real potential in the outfield all of a sudden.

Unless, of course, Flores isn't ready, or gets hurt, or just had his career year ...

This is all very far from over...

but then, I still miss Vinnie, so what do I know? I know, I know; I'm just sayin'.

While I'm happy to get a young, dynamic player in Milledge, I think this trade makes the everyday lineup too righthanded with Zim, WMP, Milledge, Kearns, Belliard and (maybe) Flores playing everyday. DMH, a switch-hitter, is the only real lefthanded power threat and he only hits that way part time. I wouldn't be surprised if Church becomes the Mets' full-time RF and has the breakout year that no one here seemed to believe is possible.

Who is this Justin Maxwell character and what has he done? Hit just above the Mendoza line in the Arizona Fall League? He's a classy local guy but that's about it. He's not even a fourth outfielder.
The deal is good. Sure, it could backfire, but you have take chances.

Love Schinder, sorry to see him go. But lets not confuse how good a person he is with how good a ballplayer he is. Milledge can be something special, Church is not going to be that.

To all the people slamming his personality, if the last week in DC has taught us anything, its that people can change. How someone is at 22 is not how they are always going to be.

This is a move in the right direction. The nationals loose a great defensive catcher in Brian Schnieder and Ryan Church who seems destined to be a platoon outfielder. What the Nats gain is cheap developable talent that could imediatelty improve the nats in centerfield without having to over spend on a free agent. This is the same lastings milledge that two years ago was mentioned in trade talks with the likes of Barry Zito. Lastings has seemingly struggled to make adjustments with the mets so far. However, he has not seen regular at bats and is playing for a rather unforgiving fan base in Flushing. Anything short of David Wright production as a rookie is booable to the mets faithful. Time will only tell, but we may have bought comparably low on a player on the verge of budding into a star.

There. Get off my back about Bartolo Colon for god sake. I have made it up to you at long last.

This is a move in the right direction. The Nationals loose a great defensive catcher in Brian Schnieder and Ryan Church who seems destined to be a platoon outfielder. What the Nats gain is cheap developable talent that could imediatelty improve the nats in centerfield without having to over spend on a free agent. This is the same lastings milledge that two years ago was mentioned in trade talks with the likes of Barry Zito. Lastings has seemingly struggled to make adjustments with the mets so far. However, he has not seen regular at bats and is playing for a rather unforgiving fan base in Flushing. Anything short of David Wright production as a rookie is booable to the mets faithful. Time will only tell, but we may have bought comparably low on a player on the verge of budding into a star.

The only possible downside of the trade may be that by trading BriSchni, it could mean that Fick will be back on the roster as the backup lefthanded hitting catcher.

Omar has Bowden's disease... a fascination with players from his former organization... It's a shame not to take advantage of that.

For those who keep questioning that the character of the team has been irreparably damaged... what of the other players remaining?!

Admittedly, Schneider was a stand-up guy and a team leader, but we still have Zimmerman, Kearns, Dmitri, Belliard, Rauch, and other team leaders who can and will keep the clubhouse together. I don't think the clubhouse is in any way harmed beyond all hope of salvation for the mere chance to upgrade at a position where nearly everyone was clamoring we needed help just several days ago.

I guess there's just part of me that reacts strongly to the fatalistic sentiments being rather strongly expressed universally. Teams have lost stronger leaders and better catchers than Schneider before and come out ahead... While we will miss everything that Church and Schneider brought to the table (when they came to dine), all hope is not lost.

The excessive drama is neither necessary nor becoming. We can all be heavily invested in our team - and I think we are, as evidenced by how many people routinely contribute here - without declaring the end of the world at every turn.

Great trade. This exactly what the Nats have wanted to do: trade older more expensive players for younger players with more upside. Milledge was a top 5 prospect in baseball a year or two ago and he's only 22. I do love Schneider like everyone else, but catchers don't last too long into their 30's and his offense was pretty dreadful. We're going to miss his work with our young pitchers, but Flores did a good job with them last year and hopefully he can continue to develop.

faNATic said:

"We can all be heavily invested in our team - and I think we are, as evidenced by how many people routinely contribute here - without declaring the end of the world at every turn."

The world ended September 30, 1971. This is heaven.

Remember that!

There. Get off my back about Bartolo Colon for god sake. I have made it up to you at long last.

Posted by: Omar Minaya | November 30, 2007 04:47 PM

Easily a winner. But dammit, bring me back Grady Sizemore!

I'm still pouting but I grudgingly admit it's a pretty good trade.

The talk about Schneider being an "awful player" (?!?), his days are numbered, time to let him go, etc. etc. are a little too strong and a little too soon. It stings to hear it. Still a lot of forgiveness of his 2007 bat and hope for his 2008.

I fully expected the new ballpark to turn him, and about 6 other slumping guys, around (he wasn't the only one, by far, you recall). We owed him a taste of some of the new-ballpark magic at least.

But yea. Give me some more time to grieve, but I'm sure I'll be All Lastings All The Time soon enough.

While I love my Schneider, I think you have to jump at the chance to pick up a potentially explosive force like Milledge. And as far as Churchy -- I think he needed a change of scenery. Ever since he ran into that wall in that first year and took what seemed like months to get back his stock took a nose dive and it was never going to rise again.

I love the trade. This was about economics.Schneider was due over $9 mil and Church was eligible for arbitration. Milledge will cost about $500K. The pitchers will miss having Schneider behind the plate, and he always kept baserunners honest. Schneider is a perfect fit for the Mets, who don't need his bat. This gives the Nats a great deal of financial flexibility to sign Zimmerman to a long-term deal and get some front-line pitching.

A) love the trade. Will miss Schneider and I think Church has always been underappreciated, but the potential of Milledge is huge, and let's be honest - Schneider is going to be well past his peak by the time the Nats can really contend.

B) Don't take this the wrong way, but does anyone on this board really know what the Nats clubhouse is like? Who's *really* a leader? I mean, we know what we see in the paper, but is Barry in the dugout when things are tight? Is he on the plane after a bad road series? I'm not saying leadership is crap, or that Schneider is or isn't a good leader. What I'm saying is that as mere fans, we really don't have much idea of who is or isn't a good influence on the team.

I wonder how Schneider and Church feel about it. I bet Schneider at least was as sucker-punched as I was.

This trade is high-risk, high-reward. It all comes down to who is right about Milledge. I'll decide if I like this trade in about 2 years.

Two years ago when Manny was being Manny and demanding that the Red Sox trade him, the Red Sox tried to deal him to the Mets. As I remember the Mets refused to make the deal if it meant losing Milledge to get Ramirez.

So if you think about it, the Mets could have gotten a sure Hall of Famer in return for Milledge and other prospects, but balked. We got him for a platoon outfielder and a catcher whose best years were behind him.

We forget sometimes that some of these guys are just kids. Not everyone is mature beyond their years @ 21 like Zimmerman was. Milledge is only 22 and the upside is huge!! Plus, his we are saving a ton of money unloading Schneider's contract.

And, even though he is a little older, same thing with Wily Mo. I would rather have us try and fail with young guys than stock the roster with journeymen and platoon players.

Bowden has once again made a creative move that I believe has a definite upside for the Nats. After reading all the trade possibilities hypothesized in this forum over the last 30 days no one thought of this as a possibility! By 2009 we would have seen the plateau of the talent range for Church and Schneider may have already peaked. Milledge will only be 24 by then and still have upside potential. To me this is a team building move, long term.

I have a sneaky suspicion this isn't the only surprise we'll get. Something just as big, if not bigger, is going to happen next week.

manny is the leader in the clubhouse. exactly how it should be.

Where's Hendo??

Move over Yankees - we want Santana!

________________________
This gives the Nats a great deal of financial flexibility to sign Zimmerman to a long-term deal and get some front-line pitching.

Posted by: Nationals Park Section 210

"Human Growth Hormone: Boo! Prospect Growth Hometeam: Yay!"

The real value of this trade is it allows us to learn more about Justin Maxwell in AAA. Is he really nothing to sneeze at (sorry!) or is he a square-peg might-have-been forced into the round-hole face-of-the-future? Now we don't have to find out at the expense of our record! Further, we don't have to rush anyone else because Maxwell didn't pan out (or worse... we lose our nerve and THINK he didn't pan out).

Also, now we can stop talking to Andruw Jones, who isn't any good anymore because he stopped taking steroids.*

*Unsubstantiated 506 supposition

Love this deal.

I hate those who think this is a good deal because it saves money.

I am so tired of putting cash into Lerners pockets.

They need to cut Lopez and take that money and this money and get some starting pitching, bench players (no Fick!) and a Lefty power bat. Stan said the pay roll was going to go up a great deal this year. Show me the talent.

It's official. I am now Keith Law's ex-wife. Grrrrrr -- them's fighting words!

OTOH, this is probably the first Nats news to make the front page of MLB.com in years.

GREAT trade. I bet Milledge helps sell a few more season tickets, and honestly, a young, energetic African-American center fielder with (I hope) star power could help enamor the team a little more to DC.

As for Omar making up for Bartolo Colon, I say we sign Colon, and then perhaps it can all turn out even better.

I am amazed at Bowden's persistence. He has tried to get Milledge for 2 years, like he tried to get Wily Mo.

I assumed that Ray was referring to Michael Barrett, formerly of the Expos, Cubs, and (?) Dodgers, was it?

---

You mean Bennett?

I really love the trade, and I'm a big Schneider AND Church apologist.

The key, to me at least, is whether or not Milledge can play center.

I tell you what though, between Zimmerman, Milledge, Flores and big bad Wily Mo Pena, this team is going to be a lot of fun to watch.

What am I, chopped liver?

---

but then, I still miss Vinnie, so what do I know? I know, I know; I'm just sayin'.

Someone who is clearly a Mets fan posted this on another conversation:

"Anyone else noticed all the lopsided (in their favor) trades the Nats have been apart of the past few seasons? Its starting to get fishy like MLB is paying the losing team off or something. Im serious"

I love it. I hope it does turn out to be lopsided for us.

I think he meant Gary Bennett of the Cardinals.

-------

I assumed that Ray was referring to Michael Barrett, formerly of the Expos, Cubs, and (?) Dodgers, was it?

---

You mean Bennett?

Posted by: natsfan1a | November 30, 2007 05:26 PM

I was also thinking of Gary Bennett, who was a capable (if unexciting) backup to Schneider in '05.

Good by, Capt. Brian! Your work behind the plate was a pleasure to behold, as was your clutchy hitting. I will miss HALLELUJAH and CHURCH ON SUNDAY! Thank you, Ryan, for some unforgettable moments! And I will never forget how you sacrificed yourself smashing into the wall to keep The Chief from blowing a save in Pittsburgh. I will be giving you both a standing o when you come to the new park. And when Manny showed you up for not hustling to first, you were pure class. Thank you. I hope you both make the 2008 All-Star team!

That being said, now our fans are safe from Don Sutton's wrath at being unable to pronounce "Schneider." And Lastings Milledge has been consistently praised by callers and announcers alike on WFAN as the Mets' best outfielder and future All-Star.

Even if Milledge is JUST a good CF it will still be a great deal for the Nats. We can't have any more seasons with Nook or Brandon Watson in CF. Milledge will stop that CF carousel so let's be optimistic on how he'll develop!

I think Jesus Flores will also develop nicely w/ more playing time. His bat should be the same or better than Scheider. The one concern is how Flores will handle the Nats pitching staff considering they're either youngsters or retreads. Schneider does earn kudos for how well he called games.

Church... I have never really been impressed with him.

So overall, I really like this trade and hope the pitching staff doesn't drop off next year. I believe Milledge will be a very good CF for quite awhile.

NATS FAN POLL QUESTION- What do you think Bowden should work on next considering CF position is filled?

I say major league pitching and a young 1B (even though I love Nick Johnson's eye). I'd love to trade D. Young for a SP (if Nick's ready to return).

Love the trade. I'm just not sure how Bowden pulled it off. Of course, I'm a former Expo fan who nearly cried when Phillips and Sizemore were traded for what amounted to nothing. (Oh Yeah, and Lee) I like you a lot better now, Minaya.
And Hendo, much as though I enjoy some of your entries, you didn't have Bergman as one of the starting pitchers---Duh!

Tim, I don't think Nick will be at full speed until two years from when the break happened, Sept. 30, 2006, from those who have had a broken femur. People die of this injury.

grrrrrr

---

That being said, now our fans are safe from Don Sutton's wrath at being unable to pronounce "Schneider."

j. campbell, I noted Hendo's omission of Bergmann as well.. but he acknowledged it several posts later. Bergmann's still gotta be one of the more promising major league arms we have, should he avoid the injury bug.

I would also agree that we could use a dominant/more-veteran-than-we-currently-have pitching presence in the order. This would provide a real anchor for the rotation, and would allow our bevy of young pitchers to grow at a more reasonable pace while feeling less pressure.

This is the kind of trade that stokes the hot stove - FUN to talk about until SPRING comes!

October 30, 2007
Astros ink Ausmus to one-year contract

Damn.

i'd like to see at least one experience vet starter, as well. doesn't have to be an "ace" or anything like that. i'd actually prefer a 200+ inning grinder who "knows how to pitch," even if he doesn't have amazing "stuff." that's the kind of guy who can teach young pitchers how to pitch instead of throw. kinda like rick sutcliffe was for the Os back in the mid 90s. that's one of the reasons that tom glavine was so appealing. not that he doesn't have "stuff" (altho it's not what it once was), but because he knows how to pitch and seemed willing to help the younger pitchers.

'That being said, now our fans are safe from Don Sutton's wrath at being unable to pronounce "Schneider."'

Can't wait to hear him mispronounce Lastings Milledge!

NatsNut, I think that's why they traded Capt. Schneider - Sutton could NOT pronounce his name. Or perhaps it was Troy Aikman outing him on the Cowboy's sideline, saying, "Catchers wear so much equipment, they never think people will recognize them. But there's Washington National's catcher Brian Schneider rooting for the Dallas Cowboys against the Redskins on the sideline!"

Good riddance, Schneid!

Rooting against the 'Skins is one thing, but for the COWBOYS? Might as well be the Yankees...

Meetings from 3:00 on, sorry...

I like the trade, on balance, given Milledge's youth and upside.

The downside, as is always the case in a multiple-for-one trade, is that the team receiving the multiple has more than one way to win from it, while the team receiving the one player has its eggs in one basket.

But I'm willing to back JimBo's and Manny's judgment on Milledge's ability to deliver the eggs... er, goods.

(And, yes, I miss Schneider and Church just a bit.)

(And, yes, Bergmann's in my opening day rotation. I still feel terrible about the initial omission.)

I don't think I have anything to convey that hasn't already been said, but Schneidy was hands down, with out a question my favorite Nat. No question. He was clearly an important figure in the clubhouse and a key figure in keeping the young pitching staff calm through out last season. Church may have had his ups and downs, but as far as I am concerned played hard and was good for the team.

In the long run I think we will look back at this as a positive move. But damn, its like getting kicked in the gut.

Schneidy, we are going to miss you buddy.

506, there's a lot of fine Texans in MLB who would fail your litmus test. I know Mike Bacsik is from Fort Worth and loves the Cowboys. John Patterson (Orange, Texas), Ryan Wagner (Houston), Chris Schroeder(Oklahoma City: certainly not Texas, but Cowboy territory), Mike O'Conner (Dallas), Garrett Mock (Houston); and Ryan Langerhans (San Antonio) would probably be renounced by their fathers for not rooting for the Cowboys. The solution would be an All-Dominican team. They do not give a damn about anything but baseball!

Mark McGuire at the Albany Times-Union offers an interesting perspective on Minaya's possible motivations for the trade...

"You can make two assumptions from this deal:

A) This is the best he could do for Milledge, or;
B) This sets up a second deal, possibly involving Church, Gomez or Chavez."

Not that it matters too much from the Nats' point of view, but I wouldn't bet against (B). There's still plenty of time for wheeling and dealing, before, during, or after Nashville.

http://blogs.timesunion.com/mcguire/?p=265

"NATS FAN POLL QUESTION- What do you think Bowden should work on next considering CF position is filled?"

Getting some OBP help at the top of the order -- possibly including a deal for any infielder not named Zimmerman.

I am loving this trade. All respect to Schneider but he has been in decline. Flores can either platoon or develop while we get a stop-gap like Paul Lo Duca, Michael Barrett or maybe Johnny Estrada when the Mets non-tender him.

The fact is, Milledge has fabulous potential and will likely flourish in a change of scenery.

Great trade.

We brought back Ray King!!!!

Yay, Fun!!!!!!

We brought back Ray King to a minor league contract!

Yay, Fun!

Lastings Milledge and Ray King in the same day?

I am not sure which is bigger news!

The brain trust has spoken...and delivered. While Schneider was an excellent defensive catcher, his offense was not. Church never really got a fair shake here and a change in scenery is probably what he needed. Milledge has a lot of potential that I think will blossom in DC, since he will likely man centerfield. With everyday play, his developement should be on the fast track. OK, ready for the next move JIMBO.

Ray (fashion plate) King back in the fold. How about that.

Well Wigi...one is bigger news...the other is just BIGGER

"Well Wigi...one is bigger news...the other is just BIGGER"

Ah, but King's lost 20 pounds so far this offseason, quoth the Denver Post.

Don't know what that translates to in improved ERA, but it doesn't seem it could hurt a bit (provided, of course, he can keep it off after Opening Day... those clubhouse spreads have gotta be mighty tempting).

Re: Barrett, I was speaking of Michael Barrett, he of the Cubs fisticuffs and ex-Expo who's salary was dumped to the Cubs to make room for Schneider in the first place. I think he's a good buy low guy, he was conisdered a top five in the NL catcher until Zambrano went ballistic on him.

I haven't heard any runors along those lines, I was just askin'....

I might also point out that Jason LaRue, formerly of the Bowden 2003 Cincinnati Reds, is a free agent, I believe, and is comparable to Schnieder, only cheaper. Wouldn't surprise me.

I wondered who was going to blink first this year and start trading prospects. But a decent trade for a regarded prospect who could do a Dimitri Young and fly with this second chance. I guess this means no Andruw Jones....

231 & long term - replies on Seattle and Cleveland back on the "Devon White" post.

One advantage of the Milledge deal is I think this takes Dukes out of the equation. I like the deal. Milledge is a big talent and is a heck of a lot younger than even Justin Maxwell and has accomplished more at higher levels. Any "problems" are pure maturity things and not violence. He's a bit like WMP in that soembody has to let him play to see how he does full time. Might as well be us.

Just gotta love this Onionish headline from the City Paper...

"Hot Stove Report: Nationals Make Huge Stride in Acquiring Players With Dickensian Names"

XM Radio had a Mets official on spinning the trade in their direction as a clear trade the future to win now move. He said they knew they were giving up a potential star but that they needed a defensive catcher. He said Church would be their starting RF and cited his 43 doubles and 15 HR. Said that he thought Church and Schneider would outperform Milledge this year but that probably long term Milledge would be the better player. The XM host basically called it a one sided Nats win. A clip of Bowden speaking was also played in which Bowden said he thought Milledge would be a middle of the order batter in "a few years".

Elijah Dukes apparently hasn't calmed down that much.

The troubled outfielder had been enjoying what Rays officials have said was a seemingly quiet and successful return to the field with the Licey team in the Dominican Republic - until Thursday night.

Dukes reacted angrily after being called out on strikes in the ninth inning and was ejected after going chest-to-chest with the umpire, and had to be restrained by several teammates at different times.

"It got a little ugly,'' said Jesus Campos, VP of baseball operations for the host Gigantes team. "If it wasn't for (teammate) Andy Tracy holding him back, things could have gotten a lot worse. ... It definitely wasn't a safe situation for the umpire because (Dukes) is a big guy.''

Great trade. I love Schneider and hate to see him go. He can really help the Mets with defense and character, at least Minaya must think so. But he's a better fit on a "win now" team. Milledge may turn out to be a star - to get him for an expensive aging defensive catcher and a spare part is a coup.

Obviously I'm putting on my suit of cold rationality, as Stan and Jimbo must do. As a fan it's a kick in the solar plexus. Schneider personified the Nats to me.

I'm just wondering if all the posters who are harping on character were saying the same thing about Da Meathook last winter? And look how that turned out. Give the kid a break and see what he can do.

I love Brian Schneider, but he's 32 and even his defensive skills are eroding. Sure, he calls a good game, but the Nats are making moves for the future.

The have the rights to Milledge for five years, and he's making basically peanuts. If he plays up to the projections, he becomes one of the team's core players for the next 10 years. If he doesn't, the Nats aren't out of anything.

I hate seeing one of my favorite players go, but there's no way the Nats could have passed on this deal.

I can't wait to hear what Phil Wood (he's good) has to say about the Milledge deal. Out of towners can hear his comments at 10am saturday morning on wtem.com

I've been mulling this trade for a few hours now, and while I haven't exactly warmed to it, I can see it as a chance worth taking. I pretty much see it as 1) a salary dump, first and foremost, and 2) a gamble on Milledge. He certainly has an upside (though I don't think it's quite as high as some other posters here perceive it to be), and he may pan out given the chance to swing the bat every day. It's a hand that I'm certainly willing to see play out, even if it does make the Nats a little too right handed for my tastes.

The deal fits in with "the plan" in that Milledge could conceivably contribute for a long time (then again, he could be the next Jeffrey Hammonds). And it's consistent with Bowden's style of buying low.

But it also tells me that (barring another deal for a starting catcher) if they are willing to go into 2OO8 with Flores (and I,like everyone else, was pretty impressed with his poise and performance last year) as their primary catcher, the front office will again be content with another year of sub .5OO baseball. Admittedly, those guys make their living by evaluating talent. But I don't think that Flores is ready to play everyday, and I can see the pitching staff regressing with him behind the plate next year.

It's in my nature to worry, and I really hope I'm wrong about this. But I'm afraid that we might see Lastings chasing down more line drives in the gap than he drives to the wall himself. At least for a year or two.

I can live with that. But I don't know if everyone is as patient.

Church? Schneider? More of the same if they were in the lineup in '08. I'm already more excited about '08 with the prospects of Milledge and Flores starting. But who knows if either of those two will still be around come spring training? Either could be offered and/or wanted by another team as part of another deal during hot stove season. Long way to go until February.

What's NOT to like, or love, about this deal? Except that I'm a life-long Mets fan, and still a little conflicted when the Nats go up against them.

Church was never going to be given the chance to be a regular with the Nats, for whatever reason. On the other hand, Church killed the Mets this year -- his performance up in Shea, in September, took the division crown away from the New Yorkers. No doubt, this influenced the Mets greatly. Maybe he'll flourish up there, though he will surely still continue to strike out in many clutch situations.

Losing Schneider puts the team a little bit behind the eight-ball. He played quite nicely down the stretch -- showed off a laser rifle of an arm, and hit some, too. On the other hand, the Nats aren't going to win games without some more offense at the position than Schneider could give -- and the Nats need to be focused on 2009, and 2010, anyway.

In the meantime, I see two possibilities. The Milledge trade is preliminary to another deal, as was hinted at above -- possibly for Haren. Then, the Nats would continue to pursue that Japanese centerfielder. However, it's a mixed bag when you bring over a Japanese player -- don't know what you'll be getting, especially at first. Just ask the Metropolitans about Kaz Matsui. And, as much as I love the idea of J-Max, the local boy doing good, he's not ready for the bigs, yet.

So, the Nats just might hang on to Milledge. He'll flash a little leather, and bring the crowd to its feet with a few triples. Even if he takes some more time to develop his raw ability, he can contribute some excitement right away. Right now, they've got the prospect that Alex Escobar was supposed to be when he came up with the Mets...and they've got him young and healthy. So, we can forget about Escobar, let J-Max get some polish at Columbus, and focus on getting anohter backstop and pitching.

Forget about the stuff about Milledge's supposed character issues. In the words of Warren Zevon, he's just an excitable boy. When he started high-fiving the crowd? That was brilliant. I wish that happened more.

In two years, the Nats will be picking between Milledge, Pena, Kearns, J-Max and maybe Marrero (I guess we can't rule out Casto, either). I'd say they will be able to put together a pretty good outfield by then...and maybe, a lot sooner. If the rest of the team will have the same kind of promise, the Nats will in pretty good shape.

"I can see the pitching staff regressing with him behind the plate next year."

What? The pitching staff performed almost identically w/ either behind the plate. I don't doubt Schneider calls a great game; Flores does, too.

And, seriously, half of "our staff" is in the minors right now - how would keeping Schneider help them?

My Lord, a reasonable set of posts (generally). As I have said, before, the quality of this board is generally well above others.

Personally, while I truly admired Schneider's catching, his abilities probably wouldn't help the Nats' young arms, this year...they are all in the minors, and some will be there in '09.

Church has been given more than enough chances. He is, quite simply nothing more than a 4th outfielder. That is his upside. If the Mets are projecting him for 150 games in RF in '08, they are in deep trouble.

Milledge has more potential than Maxwell (who might actually be great trade bait at the end of next year).

BTW, check some of the Mets' sites. They are absolutely livid. Also, they have also brought up Church's Anti-semitism. They are going to roast him in NYC.

Speaking of clutch hitting, Bill James has concluded that "clutchiness" does indeed exist - the conventional wisdom was that hitting is streaky and random, so this is a big change. The most clutchy hitters are Big Papi, Chipper Jones and Albert Pujols. "Eleven clutch homers in the Cardinals' championship season. Ortiz' career high is eight." The worst? Juan Pierre, Junior Griffey, and the very worst: Adam Dunn.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/11/30/james.clutch/index.html

If anyone doubts that this was a good trade, read the 504 howls of anguish from Metropolitan fans. Here are some samples:

Very Dark Gray Friday.

Fire Omar now. Agree?

The only way this makes sense is if Brian Schneider is secretly Dominican.

Boycott 08!

I'm more and more impressed by Jim Bowden.He's become very, very savvy.

This is a terrible, terrible deal.

I am sick to my stomach.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/newsday_mets_trade_milledge_to_nats1/

The Howls of Anguish from Mets fans was mine.

I don't think Church is anti-Semitic. He believes that anybody who is not a Christian is going to hell. I think that's the official dogma of a number of versions of Christianity, and I think it used to be quite common. I don't see that it's any more anti-Judaism than anti- any other religion, and it's not hostile to Jews as an ethnic group. Anyway, who gets their theology from baseball players?

Five Hundred and Four (504) was the number of comments on the trade. And they are very complimentary of JimBow and the Nats. Not so much of Omar.

Re: Churchie's anti-semitism. Don't blame the ball-player. The Jewish Rev. Lon Solomon teaches this very doctrine at the McLean Bible Church, though it is contrary to the explicit words of C.S. Lewis, Thomas Aquinas, and Jesus, who was Jewish, as was his mother, of whom he was very fond.

Someone show this to Churchie - it will make life easier in New York. "The giving of daily bread. Forgiveness. Sacrificial love. Remember - where you see these things happening, there you are seeing the real kingdom of Jesus coming down to earth. And whoever does these things - baptized Christian or not - they are bringing about the kingdom of God. Christ is their real king. They are real disciples of Jesus."

Oh, forgot the attribution. The Protestant theologian Dallas Willard, who spoke as a guest at the McLean Bible Church.

I think the problem with Ryan Church is not that he's anti-semitic, it's just that he's clueless. Seriously. Go back and read his comments, and then read the entire article. He was asking a question that most established Christians already have an answer to one way or the other. If anything, I think it shows a sense of cluelessness about Christianity as a whole, and a certain naievete in relaying the conversation to the press. But I don't think he ever meant it maliciously. Besides, from California? He's probably just a God-less liberal, anyway.

More fun from the Mets fans:

I said, like, Jewish people, they don't believe in Jesus. Does that mean they're doomed? Jon nodded, like, that's what it meant. My ex-girlfriend! I was like, man, if they only knew. Other religions don't know any better. It's up to us to spread the word.

Let's see how the New York media react!

They could locker Church next to Shawn Green and film it as a reality show for VH1.

From Rotoworld:

Rosenthal says that the Mets offered Johnny Estrada to the Nats in the trade, free of charge, but that the Nats preferred to look elsewhere for a Schneider replacement.

That's a pretty cold fact to let slip to the press.

Guess what, folks. If you honestly believe that all Jews who don't accept Jesus are doomed to hell, you are anti-semitic. No, you may not want to carry out a pogrom, or burn Jews at the stake, but you are, by definition, anti-semitic.

Amen! Also remember it ended again for a few hours on March 5, 2006, until Marion Barry, of all people, saved the stadium lease deal and the Nats' staying in DC at that soon to be filled gorgeous new park!

Every single game since 9/30/71 is indeed heavenly and the ones since 3-5-06 just as much!

Remember, too, that Shea is nearly as big a pitcher's park as RFK. Church/Schneider stats should improve from being out of RFK and hitting in a stronger line-up. Milledge probably will get better ##'s just by playing in a (hopefuly) better hitters park than Shea. It will be fun to see how it all works out -- see beginning of post!!
__________________________________
The world ended September 30, 1971. This is heaven.

Remember that!

hate to say this catcher50 but if you dont believe jews are going to hell because they havent accepted jesus, you arent a christian, not by the bible's standard anyway. thats not my personal belief, but the basis of christianity is believe in jesus or you wont be in heaven. this would make all christians antisemites by your logic. not that i think you are wrong, but still

Brilliance, sheer brilliance!!

This is a simply great trade. Let's get one thing clear about Milledge's morals--the only thing he stands accused of is making some bad rap music. Dmitri Young attacked his wife the year before we hired him and look how he turned out.

Plus, Manny Acta and Milledge are supposedly good friends, which should give him great influence to keep adverse behaviors in check.

One thing I really love about the Nats is (whether by choice or necessity) that they just love to play the kids. This isn't a geezer-centric club built around veterans, it's a youth-oriented one built around a young, vibrant core who really just love to play.

So has anybody noticed that the Nats have no left-handed starting position players now?

http://blog.letteddywin.com/2007/11/30/washington-nationals-trade-every-left-handed-hitter/

scott, i think you will notice that the first post on one of the previous topics is my worrying about the lack of balance this creates in our line up (leaving nicky j as out only lefty and hook, flop and guzy as switch hitters)

The Nats are ready for Randy Johnson!

The trade is right in line with the Plan. As much as I love Schneider, neither he nor Church are ever going to make the Nats a championship caliber team. Milledge actually might. He has the tools, now if he can find the focus...

The Nats should be trading/getting rid of players that will not make them a championship caliber team whenever they can get players that might.

I hope I am saying it is a good trade in 2 years, but I certainly am now.

That aside, I wish Schneider could have caught the first pitch at the new stadium...

About Milledge's attitude. I was watching the game when he started high-fiving the fans. It was one of the purest outbursts of emotion I've ever seen in a baseball game. It was brilliant. It wasn't showing up the other team, like Manny Ramirez admiring one of his home runs. This was a young star thrilled to death to make his first big contribution as a major leaguer, and he wanted to share it with the team's fans, who were equally eager to welcome this new star.

It was inspired and brilliant and wonderful. I wish there were more celebrations like that in baseball. In soccer, players love to mingle with or play to the fans after scoring a goal. That's what it should be about -- it should be for the fans, not for the players only, doing their big scrum at home plate.

By the way, has anyone else read at espn.com., Stark's column, which reports that former Nationals' washout, Travis Hughes is wowing 'em in winter ball? He's a minor league free agent, after the Sawx let him go...

"Rosenthal says that the Mets offered Johnny Estrada to the Nats in the trade, free of charge, but that the Nats preferred to look elsewhere for a Schneider replacement."

Rosenthal says a lot of things. Sometimes I wonder if he and Bill Ladson eat at the same Denny's.

But I also wonder if catcher is one of the positions for which the Nats are willing to cough up a couple mil?

I don't know about catcher, but buck sez they're coughing up a couple mil, at least, for a starting pitcher this week. They just *decreased* payroll with this deal. They're about to plunk down some bank.

I wanna see some starting pitcher speculation. They just pulled off a deal that in hundreds of posts in the last two weeks nobody mentioned once. I'm thinking maybe not a free agent but some other youngish starter, not so hot it would take half our draft picks to get, but veteran enough to make a difference. Who could that be?

Or like someone said earlier, maybe it could be, "step aside New York. We want Santana." Never know with JimBow.

It sure looks like I am in the minority here, but I'm not getting the brillance of this trade. Everyone is citing to the interest around the league in Milledge a year or two ago, but I think this has changed. Milledge had an opportunity to step up to the plate last year on the Mets when Chavez and Moises Alou were injured, and failed to do so. Milledge was offered to the Twins and Orioles as part of a Santana and/or Bedard trade and they had no interest in him. While its true that he was supposedly the big bargaining chip in the Mets/Sox Manny Ramirez talks, that was in Winter '05/06, right?

It might end up being a good trade if Milledge pans out. But to my mind, its a big maybe. I'm still not totally on board with the whole 'trade servicable players making major league salaries for prospects' line of thinking. Ask the Washington Capitals how the '04 firesale has been working out.

I might add that Keith Law and all the columnists at ESPN have done nothing but dog the Nats and their players for three years, so the fact that Law has no respect for Schneider is hardly surprising. Whether you love the trade or hate it, its hard to respect a columnist who refers to Brian Schneider as 'nothing'. (Every message on this board provides a better analysis of that trade than Keith Law did, IMO.)

Without getting into the anti-Semitism aspects of the discussion, I would point out that, in my experience interacting with Ryan Church, he has been great to the fans, but perhaps a little clueless.

In '05, he was at the ESPNZone at one of their lunchtime autograph sessions. A small child asked him if he liked the city of Washington DC better than Montreal. His response: "No comment." That was Ryan Church.

Ray,
I'm with you and I have only 3 words why I hate this trade. "Bend Ya Knees".

Ray- You are right about Keith Law. He never has anything good to say about the Nats, so even his opinion that they won this trade is tempered. In his comments below the article, he tells readers not to get excited, because when you add Milledge, the Nats now have 3 hitters, tops. He also consistently insists that not only did the Nats not have the top draft in 2007, that their picks are not even in the top 5. He is a tough sell for DC, no doubt.

keith law ia a bit of a loon. he was seriously hating on schneider.

he's always a tough read. very high on his own intellect.

A few observations. I agree that the quality of the posts on this site are good.Flores, I believe, is an above average defensive catcher, with an above average arm. I believe he learned a lot from Schneider about handling pitchers, and I think he'll prove to be a good offensive player, much better than his mentor.
The outfield in two or three years---Not Castro or Maxwell. If not Kearns and Pena, then likely Burgess and Smolinski.
After the posts dealing with Church and Christianity, I'm hoping we don't get into politics next.
And finally, my apologies, Hendo. I realize the Bergmann omission was just an oversight on your part. My faith is restored.

I am going to miss Ryan and Brian. I won't be surprised to see Ryan have a banner year. In sports the players change however those guys were still special when they became the new NATS. The only thing that is permanent is change.

Don't mean to irritate people who want to talk about baseball, but I would say an anti-Semite is someone who doesn't like Jews because they're Jews. What Church said (or was told) is that anyone, Jewish or not, who doesn't believe in Christ is going to hell. If you believe your religion is the only true one, you have to believe the other ones are fals.

Time for the Waiting For The Other Shoe To Drop Hot-Stove Opening-Day Roster (For Entertainment Purposes Only):

SS - Guzman
CF - Milledge
1B - Young
RF - Kearns
3B - Zimmerman
LF - Pena
2B - Belliard
C - Flores
P - Hill

Bench - Bernadina, Casto, Lopez, Marrero, Cota

Rotation - Hill, Patterson, Chico, Redding, Mock (on tap: Jones, Detwiler, Lannan)

Swing - Bergmann (on tap: Bacsik, Traber)

Relief - Cordero, Ayala, Rauch, Rivera, Schroder, King (on tap: Colome, Albaladejo, Booker, Wagner)

Name I still expect not to see when the next deal hits the fan: Cordero.

Feel free to swap Bergmann for one the rotation if you don't like him as a swingman. (Francisco Liriano is the swingman on my '06 Strat team, so what do I know?)

hendo, you think marrero is going to make the jump from A ball to the nats bench? makes not sense to put a prospect who needs to play on the bench to watch. he might see a september callup if he's playing well in AA/AAA, but i wouldn't see him having a chance at the roster before 09. and that's only if he plays really well this summer.

three more months, when law says "he tells readers not to get excited, because when you add Milledge, the Nats now have 3 hitters, tops," he's closer to reality than some of the fans here. the nats were the lowest scoring team in baseball. only two teams hit less HRs or total bases or had a lower OPS (granted the stadium effect). we were middle of the pack in doubles. 24th in OBP. next to last in RBI.

as much as i love our nats, they were one of the 2-3 worst offensive teams in baseball. and that's in a year where we exceeded expectations. we have to be realistic about who our team is. out of the current players, if/when this team becomes a serious contender, there aren't many position players on last year's roster who will be part of it.

look at hendo's potential opening day lineup. tell me how many guys on this roster a pitcher worries about?

SS - Guzman
CF - Milledge
1B - Young
RF - Kearns
3B - Zimmerman
LF - Pena
2B - Belliard
C - Flores

zimmerman. young. potentially pena. potentially milledge. everyone else on the roster you pitch around those guys to get to. so i see four guys, if you say potentially. probably law didn't include pena.

btw, i can't see zimm moving from hitting 3rd. it will be like last year, barring more changes. 3-4-5 will be zimm/young/kearns.

At the risk of turning into On Faith (the worst feature in the Post.com's lineup), I recall Church was worrying that his girlfriend (at the time, or maybe a well-liked ex) wouldn't go to heaven because she didn't believe in Jesus. And that upset him.

He was showing "Christian charity", in his mind, though it was a very primitive Christian charity sort of way. Worrying about the salvation of others. He was being somewhat misled (in my opinion, and I think in most people's opinions) by the evangelizing pastor that MLB had allowed to set up a mission in the clubhouse.

If it matters to anyone, my friend who is a doctor of canon law who serves as a sort of canon law chief counsel for a major metropolitan area told me at the time: "The Church is not in the business of telling people who will go to hell - at least they're not supposed to be doing that since Vatican II. The Church holds up people that have gone to heaven based on living their life in the manner Christ prescribed - the Saints - and recognizes that God, in his infinite wisdom, can make the right decision for the rest of us."

My guess is that this conversation is probably moot for many people, theologically, but culturally will be as annoying to New Yorkers as it was to Washingtonians.

"hendo, you think marrero is going to make the jump from A ball to the nats bench?"

If there's not another roster move between now and Opening Day (a virtual impossibility), that's exactly what I think.

"makes not sense to put a prospect who needs to play on the bench to watch."

So ran the conventional wisdom about Jesus Flores. But, anyhow, if not Marrero, whom would you bring up from AA or AAA? Those shelves of the farm cupboard are still kind of bare.

the difference btwn flores and marrero is that the nats had no choice with flores. as a rule 5, he had to stay on the roster. i don't doubt that they'd have had him in AAA last year if they could have. the other bench guy is someone you don't know. you have to presume they'd sign somebody rather than retard the progress of a young player. that wouldn't fit the PlanTM.

"the difference btwn flores and marrero is that the nats had no choice with flores. as a rule 5, he had to stay on the roster."

That's why Rule 5 shopping is not without hazard. (Recall that the Nats had to let Rule 5 pickup Levale Speigner go back to the Twins, before they traded a guy to get Speigner back and send him to Columbus for more work.)

It's also why a team needs real prospects in the high minors. Otherwise the decisions you have to make to fill out your bench get pretty unpleasant. Thus...

"the other bench guy is someone you don't know. you have to presume they'd sign somebody rather than retard the progress of a young player."

That'd be my hope. (My other hope is that the day continues to draw nearer when the Nats don't have to make "organizational" signings just to fill out an MLB roster.)

And, 231, I have to confess I just dissed Barry big time. He took the trouble just the other day ("Calm Before the Storm") to list the Nats' blurbs on the signings they'd already made.

Now I need to take the trouble to crunch their numbers, which -- along with lunch -- will free the blog from my inchoate babblings for a little while.

oh, i agree. i'll be happy when we're not wondering what "reclamation projects" will be needed (not just a bonus) to fill out the roster.

those signings were the minor league FAs, iirc, and i suspect they'll still sign at least a few major league FAs, plus some more fringe guys to minor league contracts (a la meathook last year).

I hestitate to ask about anything Bill Ladson writes, but almost immediately before the Milledge trade, Ladson wrote a story about Andruw Jones and/or Corey Patterson coming to the Nats.

Does anyone A) believe this at all and if so, B) think that this may have changed with the Milledge deal?

Ray - A) Yes and B) Yes

Would the Twins trade Santana to the Nats for Cordero, Rauch, Guzman and Milledge? Or do the Nats have anything the Twins want or need?

One thing to remember... were it not for the Rule 5 draft (and its requirement that the player stay in the majors all year) this trade doesn't happen. If we could have played Flores in the minors all year, we wouldn't know if he was ready to play in the bigs... and maybe you're not so eager to trade Schneider.

YESNetwork: The Michael Kay Mailbag

Q I realize that Santana is one of the top pitchers in baseball, but I believe that a trade for Oakland pitcher Dan Haren might be a better option. He would cost less in terms of prospects and is signed to a very reasonable contract covering the next three seasons. Which direction do you believe is better for the Yankees?

Kay: I like Haren, but I don't think he's at Santana's level, although his numbers were better in 2007. Also, the history of A's pitchers show them breaking down. Would I take him as a consolation prize? Yes.

Q In your opinion what has really been the reason the Yankees have fallen short of advancing further in the A.L. playoffs since 2000? Has it been the inability to hit in the clutch, poor starting pitching, managerial decisions or a combination of all of the above?

Kay: There is no black and white answer. I think the constant pressure to go all the way or be looked at as a failure has brought some players on this team down to their knees. It makes lesser talents wilt and I think that's happened. I also think the Yankees have been an offense based team of late without a dominant starting staff. Most playoff teams have two dominant starters and good pitching shuts down good hitting, and I think we've seen that with the Yankees. I also think the managerial style of a chill demeanor works beautifully over the long season, but does not provide the proper spark in a big series.

Friday night the following was in the works:

Even if the Yankees and Twins build a framework for a Santana deal around right hand pitcher Phil Hughes, center fielder Melky Cabrera and another top minor league prospect, this would be only the first step toward completing the trade. Because Santana has a full no-trade clause, the Yankees may have to offer the two-time Cy Young Award winner a record-setting deal of something in the range of $25 million a year for six years.

No pitcher has ever received a multiyear deal for more than $20 million.

Buster Olney

Agreed, let's leave religion to the "On Faith" board.

The question about Marrero jumping to the big club may be key. Let's remember that the "real" prospects generally are playing at the AA level. Much of AAA is made up of guys that will need to be brought up to fill in for an injured player. There is a much greater difference between AAA and the majors than between AA and AAA. Most clubs see a greater need to have their AA club geographically closer than the AAA club. At the end of the AFL season, Marrero said that he was told that he would be working on his skills at first, next year. I would imagine that Harrisburg would be ideal. He could get a full season in at that spot and be close enough so that the Nats' coaches can oversee his development. Let's face it. We all love "Da Meat" and hope that Johnson can overcome his injury history, but the odds are that by '11, when the Nats can become serious contenders (as opposed to hoping to stretch into the playoffs), neither will be with the club.

By the way, I understand that Ray King lost those 20 pounds at the direct orders of Bud Selig. This is Selig's effort to shorten games, this year. At 20 pounds lighter, Ray figures to be able to walk in from he pen a lot faster. That will certainly shorten the games immeasurably.

Another ESPN analysis favoring the trade, this time from Buster Olney. I don't agree with it myself, but this seems to be a rational argument that the trade favored us. Note he says the Nats are pushing hard to trade the Chief:

The questions that rival executives had about the Mets' trade of outfielder Lastings Milledge are built around this word: why.

Why now? Why for a catcher who has made very little offensive impact? Why, at a time when Milledge's value is down? "That kid has talent," said one AL executive. "Eighteen months ago, his bat speed was being compared to that of Gary Sheffield, and that hasn't changed. He's only 22 years old. Even if you think he's a pain in the [rear] now, there's no reason why you can't wait and see if his rough edges will get smoothed out."

Brian Schneider, the catcher received in the deal, is 31 years old and respected for his defense. "But our reports say his defense has regressed," said an NL general manager. "And he doesn't hit a lot [.235 last season, with six homers]. He's not really that much better than some of the free agents out there, especially considering his salary [$4.9 million per year, for 2008 and 2009]. Why not sign another veteran catcher, go to spring training with Johnny Estrada and [Ramon] Castro and the third catcher, and hang onto Milledge, to see if he turns it around? The return they got -- the older catcher, an extra outfielder [Ryan Church], those are not hard to find. But it is very hard to find someone with talent like Milledge."

An AL GM noted that Washington manager Manny Acta had firsthand experience with Milledge, having been a Mets coach at the time that Milledge broke into the big leagues. "He's going to know all the behind-the-scenes stories about Milledge, and yet he's not afraid of taking him on," said the GM. "What does that tell you?"

A year ago, it was thought that Milledge may be the centerpiece of any trade for a frontline starting pitcher. But now Milledge is gone, and the Mets still don't have that No. 1 or No. 2 starter -- and it may be that they aren't going to get one, and are destined to fill out their rotation holes with a free agent like Livan Hernandez. Unless that changes, it's hard to view the NL East as anything other than a three-team toss-up right now, with the Braves and Phillies having made moves that improved themselves this offseason and the Mets standing their ground, so far.

Joel Sherman thinks the Milledge deal was a mistake. Milledge called the trade "a relief," as Jim Baumbach writes.

• It'll be interesting to see how the Nationals handle their glut of outfielders, and whether they'll use Milledge in center field. Some talent evaluators say that is not a position that he will play for most of his career in the big leagues, but with the Nationals early in a rebuilding situation, they might not care so much, and just let Milledge, Wily Mo Pena and Austin Kearns play every day and worry about getting a true center fielder down the road. It's a great trade for the Nationals -- they got an extraordinarily talented outfielder who has a chance to be something really special, and even if it doesn't happen, it's worth taking the chance on it. Jim Bowden says it was a move the Nationals needed to make, as Mark Zuckerman writes. Zuckerman writes within this piece that Milledge will be penciled into center field.

This can't be good news for free agent Andruw Jones, who has been thought to be on Washington's radar. He may still be, but now there really is little reason for the Nationals to extend themselves in any significant way to sign Jones. There could be more moves to come for the Nationals. Have heard that the Nats are pushing to trade Chad Cordero, and it makes sense for the Braves to be involved in conversations for a reliever.

There's an interesting array of talent among the recently signed free agents.

If the season started tomorrow, it seems obvious that Cota would be at least on the bench. Agree with others that he could certainly be the everyday catcher, depending on what job description is crafted for Flores. If Flores goes to the minors for a while, it'd be reasonable to expect Cota to be the everyday C and Moeller to be his backup or maybe vice versa.

Yurendell de Caster looks to me like your basic utility guy. (Sorry, Rob Fick.) And he pushes Marrero off my hot-stove roster and back to Harrisburg where he belongs this season.

Of the hitters, Bergolla and Padilla might well also see a bit of action at Nats Park; of the pitchers, I'd bet on appearances from Shell, Brownlie, and sentimental favorite Bacsik at some point.

As for the rest... well, the Clippers should be able to field a player at every position this coming season.

hate, hate, hate this trade. wonder how Randy St.Claire feels about it? Brian was his right hand man for all of 2007 - who does he turn to now because we still don't have any starters. i bet & hope Church soars in NY otherwise the fans will crucify him. i have a feeling Lastings is not going to "last" in DC long - this is probably another trade deal for Bowden. i think the leadership loss of Brian is huge and we are going to rue the day of this trade, but let's face it we probably won't know any of the lineup come 2008. can we trade Bowden????? we'd probably have to pay someone else to take him. i dislike him and his arrogant attitude. met him and his sleazy girlfriend at spring training last year - they are really impressed with themselves.

New post

I don't see one...

Didn't Make the Paper: Trade Aftermath

try refreshing your browser, 3More

Ah, Hendo,
Either you are a devil's advocate or you don't get it. Bergmann is still not in the starting rotation and Marrero is on the bench. Wow! Maybe I don't get it!
I know more is going to happen trade-wise, but I can't figure what. That's cool. I want the Nats to keep Milledge, so that takes care of Haren. What starting pitcher we can get for Cordero is likely not worth getting. That's not a knock at Cordero. I'm one of his biggest fans. It's just the perception out there. Hey, isn't this fun!

I don't get much of what Hendo predicts -- or I don't see it. Marrero might get to the big club in September, but not before. I watched Potomac when Manny did, and I gotta tell you Marrero didn't show that he was ready for the majors -- not at bat, or in the field. AA would have been a stretch then.

Garret Mock in the rotation? Talk about optimism. He was not good last year in rookie league/low-A ball. He had a few good outings in winter ball, but got absolutely crushed his last time out, so his numbers stink, again. No way is this guy ready for the majors.

Bergmann will start, and Mock will be learning his craft at Potomac or Harrisburg. I'm not sure that Chico will be up with the Nats any time soon, either. Bacsik or Lannan are more likely candidates for the rotation, but I think the Nats will be trying hard to bring in someone else. The money they have saved with the Milledge deal (no need to sign a CF) makes this much more likely than it was a couple of days ago.

John Patterson? Ready to start? Awfully optimistic, but I guess it could happen. I'm wondering whether he or Hill will be ready in April.

Even your batting order is unlikely. Belliard will probably be in the #2 hole, though Milledge might move up if he shows he's ready. Zimmerman batting third and Young fourth. That's not changing -- though, if anyone could bump Young out of the clean-up spot, it would be Pena, not Kearns, who is a natural 5 or 6 hitter.

And, in the bullpen -- Albaladejo will land a spot, so Schroder, Rivera or King will likely be left out. Colome has a decent chance, as well.

Mets fan all over the place are ripping the deal. They obviously think very highly of Milledge. This was a classic baseball trade that could help both teams. Church didn't have a position next year here, so dealing him was a given. Losing Schneider is a risk -- we'll obviously find out how much he really did mean to the pitching staff. And am I the only person who thinks he hit into a lot of bad luck last year? He's not the wimp at the plate that Mets fans are calling him. That team can afford to plug Church and Schneider into a potent lineup, even with their '07 stats. The Nats, obviously, need much more from Milledge, and have reason to think they will get it. It's a risk worth taking. Now if Bowden can get pitching for Felipe Lopez and (come spring if Nick Johnson is healthy) Dmitri Young, things will look much better. It'd be a waste for Young to sit on the bench when several AL teams need a DH. So just who is going to hit leadoff for the Nats and where will that person play?