and then there's that nagging Cubs-fan voice whispering "Broglio for Brock..."

**********
the little kid in me feels like its 1968 and the Mets just traded Ed Kranepool and Jerry Grote. Just like Ryan and Brian, they were not the stars on the team, but they were the type of hardworking, franchise (in the old school way) players that were part of your team that a young fan could always enjoy.

Posted by: Section 311 | November 30, 2007 03:02 PM

[reposting]

theraph, you make me chuckle.

leadership/character are both underrated and overrated. overrated by those who tout them and underrated by those who poo-poo them.

losing schneider isn't going to leave the nats bereft of either. church didn't necessarily add a ton of either. while i do worry about the handling of the pitching staff, you can't get something for nothing and neither of those guys is truly a building block for the future of this team, so there's no reason to gnash our teeth over their losses (other than the fact that we liked them, specially schneider, and we'll miss them).

if this is truly something that would push you toward being an Os fan, then so be it. see if you can appreciate angelos instead. ;) but this is a solid baseball move by the FO and i'm thinking most analysis will show it was a good move for the nats.

Bowden says, "All of our top evaluators, including Mike Rizzo, Bob Boone, Dana Brown , Manny Acta and myself, believe that Lastings Milledge can develop into a middle-of-the-order bat."

So, how does this alleviate our need for a leadoff hitter?

I loved Schneider and will still root for him even though he's moving onto a rival. You can't replace his leadership and demeanor. However, I see other leaders in the Nats clubhouse in Zim, Da Meat Hook, Kearns and Nick J, so I don't think the Nats will be lacking there. But I'll still miss seeing #23 everyday.

Church is a talented OF'er, but not the most stable mentally or emotionally. He is what he is ... a 4th OF. He's either going to light it up in NY or go down in flames. Only he can decide which way he's going to go. He had a couple of opportunities to be a star in DC and he bobbled them all away. Good luck, Churchie.

As for Milledge ... he's only 22! He's been playing pro ball for only 4 seasons. He was screwed over in NY by not getting consistent playing time, then gets lambasted because he couldn't be a consistent hitter. His attitude may have stunk while there, but I would venture to guess that a LOT of players in that clubhouse were "me first" attitude players. Besides maybe David Wright, I don't see too much leadership in that clubhouse, which may have helped develop LM's personality a little better.

LM came up to the big leagues in 06 and played in just 56 games. He played in only 59 games last year. But, he hit 30 points higher in 07 (.272 vs .241), his OBP was 30 points higher in 07 (.341 vs .310) and his SLG was 60 points higher (.446 vs .380). With a new start, a VERY good manager in Manny Acta, and a knowledge that he's the everyday CF, I see these numbers jumping way higher in 08.

So ... no Andruw signing. No Corey Patterson or Mike Cameron. Let's hope Bowden now gets that all-important SP and MI help to bump the Nats closer to contention.

I agree wholeheartedly with 231(other 506). You could not have said it better.

I like the deal (for all of the reasons Andrew cited in a post in the last thread).

Here are some websites on Lastings Milledge for your perusal while you wait for the weekend:

1) Lastings.com (looks like a fan site - good timeline) (http://www.lastings.com/)

2) A very funny "facts" blog (http://milledgefacts.blogspot.com/)

3) Lastings' MySpace profile (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=73120085)

Just another payroll dump.

Also, if you're still trying to evaluate whether it was a good deal or not, besides all of the Mets fans who are outraged, I just got done reading a Marlins message board post from last year where a guy suggested the Fins trade Dontrelle Willis to the Mets for Milledge straight up -- and other people agreed with him!

as far as milledge as a leadoff hitter, he's no worse than anyone we have on our roster and better than most. he does have speed and hopefully the OBP will continue to trend up.

while he may "develop into a middle-of-the-order bat," he is not a middle-of-the-order bat right now. he's probably fine as leadoff hitter for next year if he can get that OBP up in the 360-380 range. it's not as if anyone currently on the roster will be better in that spot.

i lied. checked one more time before i leave.

ah, yes. the all important analysis. i forgot the game was played on the analysis. wouldnt that fall under the umbrella coverage of "both underrated and overrated. overrated by those who tout them and underrated by those who poo-poo them."

solid baseball move? perhaps. that doesnt mean that i have to like it. i do believe its a purge of the old guard to completely cut off ties to the Expos org. conspiracy alert. ayalas gone next week, then the stick, the patterson.

My VP at work is a huge Mets fan. When I told him of this trade, he was pissed and threatened to fire me again. (First time was when the Nats killed his Mets the last two weeks of the season.)

What I like from this trade: No wasting money on Jones; giving the young OFs in the farm system the time they need to develop; Lastings year over year improvements as stated by a no-name poster above; getting something for Church who Bowden always rated higher than everybody else.

Now, go get a vet catcher to take some pressure off of Flores and lets see how this plays out.

This is my favorite fact:

"Lastings Milledge can tell the difference between diet and regular Dr.Pepper."

Theraph, we could only be so lucky to trade Patterson for someone

(hoping jpsfan is not reading in the off-season)

theraph, I hate to break it to you, but 2 of the 3 are already gone.
****************
conspiracy alert. ayalas gone next week, then the stick, the patterson.
Posted by: theraph | November 30, 2007 03:41 PM

So does the Devon White thing work into this somehow? Just wondering.

Well, we don't need Elijah Dukes now, that's for sure. From Wikipedia:

Prior to the 2003 amateur draft, MIlledge was expected to be among the top three selections, but as draft day approached, press reports from 2002 resurfaced regarding Milledge's expulsion from Northside Christian High School after his junior year for allegedly having sex with a 15-year-old girl.[4][5] He subsequently transferred to Lakewood Ranch High School where he finished his education and amateur baseball career.

As a result of the incident, Milledge was passed over in the 2003 amateur draft until the Mets selected him as the twelfth overall pick in the first round. The Mets began contract negotiations with Milledge, but the talks were interrupted in early August 2003, when the Mets learned of allegations of additional sexual misconduct against Milledge during his time at Northside. The Mets completed a private investigation of the matter and, satisified with the results, signed Milledge to a contract with a $1.9 million bonus.

In May (2007), it was reported that Milledge appeared in a rap song, "Bend Ya Knees," by Manny D, a childhood friend. The song contained the words (I can't print them here -- they are against the Post' posting policy) which were particularly sensitive in light of the then-present Don Imus controversy, whose show originated on WFAN, the Mets' radio broadcaster. The Mets organization responded by saying, "We disapprove of the content, language and message of this recording, which does not represent the views of the New York Mets."[5]

"Lastings year over year improvements as stated by a no-name poster above;"

sorry, that no-name poster was me. Sorry for not signing.

Dimitri Young, get your mentor cap on:

On June 4, 2006 against the San Francisco Giants, Milledge hit a solo home run off Giants closer Armando Benitez to tie up the game 6-6 in the bottom of the tenth inning (this was Milledge's first career home run). When the Mets returned to the field the following inning, Milledge, still excited, high-fived the Shea faithful as he returned to his position, inciting the ire of his manager and some teammates, not to mention the national sports media. [6] In late September, one of Milledge's Mets teammates placed a sign on his locker which read, "Know Your Place, Rook!"[7] The sign-placer was identified in published reports as Billy Wagner. [8]

So Bowden is just getting warmed up, I know, but pencil this in for size:

Milledge 8
Guzman 6
Zimmerman 5
Young 3
WMP 7
Kearns 9
Lopez 4
Flores/Moeller 2
pitcher

I'll miss them too, especially Schneiderman; this part of baseball really does stink. That said, this trade has potential.

Swanni,
I think Manny and the new clubhouse atmosphere will take care of the 'tude.

If nothing else, I find the Mets fans' hyprocrisy entertaining. Think back to September, dear friends, and remember which players it was of whom you were so scared. Ryan Church and Brian Schneider? Punished your pitchers and eliminated your team from playoff contention. My, how quickly we forget.

cevansjr,
That lineup is three bricks shy of a load.

When will this team spend some money? Are they having trouble selling tickets? Or, are they just cheap, cheap, cheap.

i agree. devon white is gonna be busy this christmas with wily mo and lastings. think he knew what he was signing up for?

NatsNut,
Dear God, I hope so.

The news now a couple hours old, the shock and sadness of losing our boys is wearing off, and it sounds like the comments are coming around to mostly positive.

The Queen is dead. Long live the Queen, I guess.

Still, I'm cashing in a huge pout allowance this weekend.

Y'all need to leave theraph alone. I like the deal but Schneider's club leadership, chemistry, and work effort can not be overated - a point confirmed by the Mets who otherwise just gave up one of their prize prospects for a .235 hitter.

I'm thinking of this as another example of Schneider "taking one for the team." Besides, we can re-sign him next winter after the Mets release him because they failed to win the division once again.
Everyone should hold onto their jerseys!

This deal is only justified if they take the money saved from Schneider's contract and use it to sign at least Livo.

I feel like I've been punched in the gut...

But...

First... from the "I Told You So" department -- I said, when the Nats made a move, it would be one that there would be a lot of emotion about, and that many would think was a bad choice. I told you so... That was from July.

Now, when I stop and start evaluating the trade (warning here, there will be NO stats to back this up, I am totally a qualitative guy), we've traded a catcher who is probably on the downhill side of the peak of his career, we've traded a center fielder who had every opportunity to both cement a long-term position and be a star with the Nats, but did neither. In return we've gotten someone with star-like anticipation, and the ability to cement himself in the position of being the long-term center fielder, in an organization whose kleig lights are much less harsh and bright... whose philosophy is to build with prospects and young talent.

The Nats solved two big problems with this trade... perhaps not problems that they had before this, but problems they might have had this season.

At worst, this is a neutral trade, on the surface... but probably a lot better than that.

good one lowcountry
_____________

Besides, we can re-sign him next winter after the Mets release him because they failed to win the division once again.
Everyone should hold onto their jerseys!

Posted by: lowcountry | November 30, 2007 03:58 PM

So this frees up more payroll. Could there be a possible deal in the works for a starting pitcher? And I would think a catcher would have to be picked up as well.

I would think Manny Acta had a big part to say in this deal and the last time he took a Met it was Jose Flores. Hopefully this trade makes him two for two. I think Lastings Milledge will be just fine. I will miss Brian Schneider though.

Part of me wonders if this deal isn't prelude to another one. The Nats traded a couple players with limited value for one with strong upside. Perhaps Milledge gets packaged with a reliever for an SP or more classic leadoff hitter?

See, neither of these bother me. A 17 year old HS kid with a 15 y.o. HS kid girlfriend? I'm Shocked, Shocked. And as for high-fiving fans, I LIKE that about him. Baseball needs to get the icicle out of its butt.
The music thing, well, I'm the wrong generation, but I imagine he found out there that he isn't normal--he's a celebrity, and in NYC at that. Doesn't rise to a level of moral turpitude to nix this deal.

OK, I don't like his taste in music, and maybe if he has any politics, and I knew what they were, I wouldn't like that, either. B[RF]D.

But, what's his work ethic like? How does he treat his job? Is he coachable?

*******
Dimitri Young, get your mentor cap on ...
Posted by: swanni | November 30, 2007 03:52 PM

Milledge's salary: $383,000

Schneider: $4 million
Church: $395,000

what if we package milledge for Haren?

yeah, that was pretty much my point.

*****
cevansjr,
That lineup is three bricks shy of a load.

When will this team spend some money? Are they having trouble selling tickets? Or, are they just cheap, cheap, cheap.

Posted by: swanni | November 30, 2007 03:55 PM

I got a GREAT deal on a Livo jersey this summer! I just hope he gets the same number if he comes back.

*************
Besides, we can re-sign him next winter after the Mets release him because they failed to win the division once again.
Everyone should hold onto their jerseys!
Posted by: lowcountry | November 30, 2007 03:58 PM

poor theraph... he poo-poos "analysis" while he over analyzes...

P. S.

Just how good would it be to smoke the Mets in a personnel deal two years in a row?

Take that Omar!

keith law's "analysis..."

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3135406&name=law_keith

new post

Swanni's back, yay!

I think what LM has going for him (and I do mean for his benefit) is that he - by all accounts - really respects and looks up to Manny Acta

That's a typo, right? They meant to say Flores, din't they?

Flores and Church for Milledge, now that's a good deal. And we really need someone of Milledge's caliber in CF! But we couldn't possibly have ... I mean ... _Schneider_?

I thought Flores was good, but...

I mean ... I knew the Mets felt a little when they let such a good one slip away via rule 5, so it makes sense to me that they want to get Flores back.

That's a typo, right? The Nats didn't just trade Schneider, did they?

oof.

Likewise, NatsNut. Also, some serious foot-stamping and head-tossing are in the forecast for my neck of the woods.

---

Still, I'm cashing in a huge pout allowance this weekend.

Me too, NatsNut. I'll be wearing my Schneider jersey in the bar tonight.

--------

Still, I'm cashing in a huge pout allowance this weekend.

Posted by: NatsNut | November 30, 2007 03:58 PM

I stick by my prior post. Swanni--this team will not buy players. Stan the Man with a Plan has consistently said so. This team is called the Nationals, not Yankees (Evil etc No.1) nor Redsox (Evil etc No. 2). Broglio for Brock (heh,heh). Churchie could be Broglio (one of my favories on the Cards as a kid) as for Brock, I will let you know in July.

Theraph-

And what is the big appeal of keeping people from the Expo era. This is a Washington team now, so to he&& with Montreal. And if memory serves, the only history the Expos had was losing... leadership is nice, but never forget, talent wins games and championships-