He wasn't by any chance hunting with the veep, was he? (rim shot)

Geez, I knew there was trouble brewin' when I saw Dick Cheney hanging around the guys in the bullpen last summer.

Wow, I had no idea Luis and Cheney were that close to actually go on vacation together. Hmm who would've thunk it.

Are you kidding me, the doctor dealing with a shotgun injury on a hunting trip is named "Yocum"? This is too great!

sorry for the repost, but i typed to long to leave it at the bottom of the other post :P.

oh, and to mike who says opening day won't be sold out when STHs get their shot, i'll just disagree with you on that one. the first game will be a hot ticket. the next game on the list, that one will be easy to get tix to, but the sunday night opener will sell out quickly and i think there will be few, if any, left when STHs get through. there will be plenty of STHs that buy their single game allotments just to sell them because they can.

=========

one might argue that "lack of evidence of poor marketing" could just be "lack of evidence of marketing at all," since we've seen no commentary from anyone about any positive marketing. i've seen a few bus signs and commercials on sports shows about ST packages. but little else being done to excite the potential fan base - not the current ST holders, i agree that we shouldn't be the target of their marketing right now.

419, i understand your points, and i don't completely disagree, but i've seen little marketing effort to corporations for STs, either (including my company or others i have relationships with).

maybe there should be a little effort to pump up the concept of a new stadium and new season coming up while they happen to be in the middle of the ST drive (or maybe tail end, at this point).

while "fan fests" may not be the most effective way to gain fans, they could be a venue to take potential ST holders and turn them into partial ST holders. the kind of thing they should be doing now, before they start selling single game tix. and you want to "pump up" attendance at an event like that? give STHs who attend "first shot" that day at their allotments of single game tix. especially this season, i'll bet that would draw a crowd (altho it's probably not feasible).

and more appearances with autograph opportunities to get player visibility out there. maybe ones the team actually sets up themselves instead of just glomming onto an existing event (car show, health show, etc). not saying they shouldn't do those shows, just that they should do their own stuff, too. have players do a sign and greet at ESPN zone during workday lunch time, for example.

the point isn't necessarily that they should have already implemented the specific ideas natswriter posted, it's that they should be working the marketing machine more in general to raise awareness of the team while they're in the middle of selling ST packages, and soon single game tix. and the team has a history of poor marketing in general, both under MLB and, so far, under the lerner/kasten banner as well.

remember, i'm usually one of the "glass half-full" people around here. but this is the kind of issue that sticks in my craw. i can't see the logic of not taking complete advantage of the "once-in-a-franchise" opportunity to use the new stadium to pump up the fan base (both psychologically and financially). i'm still perturbed that they seemed to blow the opportunity to set up player/fan interaction this offseason because they, essentially, "forgot" to lock down players before the season ended.

which brings up another interesting point. we all know how the redskin players are connected to the community here. granted, it's a *FAR* more established team/franchise, but these are the kind of efforts that are needed to make the same kinds of connections. the redskins FO doesn't have to arrange as many "events" for skins players because many of them already do some of that on their own, and are more available to the community in general. many of them spend their offseasons here. for now, we seem to have players who aren't as connected to the community as i hope they eventually are. the lack of top players in last year's "caravans" and the fact that few, if any, top players are lined up to do anything this offseason, is a disconnect between the players on the team and the fans. and those kinds of connections are what breed a connected fanbase. and that's the kind of thing the FO needs to be putting together right now that none of us are seeing happening.

I'd like to re-post mine too, if ya'll will indulge me. 231, I think we're saying the same thing:

I would argue that the marketing we're talking about isn't necessarily about selling x number of season and/or single game tickets either.

It's about creating buzz and excitement and anticipation. Big signs. Big announcements. Big advertisements. And big surprises.

yes, i think you're right natsnut, we're basically on the same page.

And I still maintain that until football season is over you will generate ZERO buzz, no matter what you do. Especially while Washington has a team in the playoffs.

I dunno, is Boston doing any marketing now? I would imagine not a lot since the Pats are steamrolling their way to a title.

That's a good comparison, the marketing of the Red Sox vs. the marketing of the Nationals. It's the same exact situation.

I would normally agree with you, 506, but Boston's not a new team with a new ballpark, looking for a solid fan base.

In fact, Boston's the polar opposite of Nats in that regard.

No doubt there are many who follow multiple local sports, but there are others who are more interested in baseball than football no matter what the season (I'm one of them).

There will be a great deal of demand for tickets to the grand opening at the new ballpark, but not to the point of the 2005 opener for the return of baseball to DC. Sure it will be a tough ticket, just not a Superbowl or Final Four level of scarcity. The parking situation and having a late Sunday night game in very early spring will help ease ticket availablity.

I expect tickets to sell out on the first day, but the secondary markets won't be as profitable as some would be scalpers would like.

i'll agree it won't be as tough a ticket as that first game at RFK was (altho, remember, that was an early spring thursday night game, not really any better than a sunday night game, so i don't think the sunday, early spring will have much, if any, effect comparatively). and while it won't be as expensive on the secondary market, it will still be a tough ticket to purchase at face value for most people who want one.

On another note, sounds like Ayala will be okay for spring training but I wish him well with his recovery.

Still, small pellets of anything residing inside an arm can't be good in the long run.

You guys are slipping. No one has pointed out yet that if Ayala was here in DC doing a Fan Fest like he should be, he wouldn't have time to be going off into the woods and getting shot. Chalk this one up to the Lerners being cheap, eh?

Wow, thanks for blasting me gang. The Boston comparison IS legit, because Boston markets the heck out of their team. They're a really good team with a lot of history, but you can't turn a corner without being smacked with advertising. No one in Beantown is letting the team sell itself.

It simply doesn't make sense to try to compete with the Redksins bandwagon unless you want to 1) draw attention to how the Nats didn't make the playoffs and are no where close to a division title next year and 2) spend a lot of money to reach a minimal amount of people, rather than waiting just one more month and using the natural hype from "pitchers and catchers report" as a multiplier on all your dollars.

Didn't mean to blast you, Sect. 506 (just that pointy-ball game).

Red Sox games have been sold out for years. The Red Sox have a rich history. They've won two World Series recently.

Ever spent the first day that Red Sox tickets are available on-line trying to get them? Unless you're really lucky, you can't, because the demand is so high, and the supply is so low. That's completely unlike the Nationals.

Also, hopefully the Nationals, like every other large business, have a marketing plan that has been in place for a while. Since they obviously didn't know whether the Redskins would be in the play-offs or not (usually, lately, the Redskins suck, which everyone seems to have now forgotten), how could they possibly develop a plan that could be implemented from anytime from when the Skins could be eliminated from the play-offs (as early as late November, maybe), until February 3. They can't, and that's not how things are done.

If you're, like, in junior high or something, I apologize for my fervor.

my 506 compatriot, no blasting was intended, i'm trying to debate the issue itself. and i understand and agree with what you're saying about the skins.

there's no way the nats can compete with the skins right at this moment. but the issue isn't necessarily what they're doing this week, but what they've been doing longer-term, since november, and will continue to do through february. right now, it looks like very little has been done to date and very little has been announced for the future.

barry's previous post that mentioned the "oops" factor in "we didn't get anything set up before the players left last year" is a symptom of the overall problem. sloppy and leaving a fan left wanting.

As a native Washingtonian who does not follow the local NFL squad (or maybe I should have said "footballers" and included DCU), I agree with 506. Unless you live in Boston or St. Louis, and if you live in a city that also has an NFL team baseball fans are generally out of luck after the Winter Meetings. It doesn't help that when Dan Snyder bought the team, he also got local print and broadcast media outlets thrown in at no extra cost. Newspapers and television and radio stations are waving their burgundy-and-gold pompoms ad nauseam to the detriment of all of the other local professional and college teams. What's really sad is that with two so-called "sports talk," i.e. "Redskins talk" stations in the region if you want to hear any cogent baseball talk this time of year you either have to block out two hours on Saturday morning to hear Phil Wood (he's good) or pony up for XM Satellite Radio and listen to Channel 175. I must say that I've basically given up on "sports radio" in this town and subscribe to XM. It's sad that baseball fans in this area are so marginalized when it comes to coverage of a home team.

It's easy to tell that the Red Sox don't have the same marketing challenges as the Nats. Go to their website. Click tickets. There are about 30 games listed, these are games against the Orioles, Rays, etc. -- "lower demand" games. Go through the process like you're trying to get tickets. You can't get a pair, maybe you can get a single. They're sold out, effectively. The "higher demand" tickets will never be on that board, because tickets will never be available.

Different team/city, different challenge. Will the Nats meet it?

It must be getting closer to the season, because the quality of discussion has gone way up, and I salute you all for it.

I do not want to simply whine about the Post again, but the point about Dan Snyder reminded me of something that truly surprised me. The Post had Washington Post Radio (I miss it), and the games were on the same stations. It boggles my mind that the Post did not spend a lot more effort promoting the team, because they had a piece in their success. If more folks listened on the radio, then the WP Radio had a better chance of succeeding.

Then again, as much as I enjoy Charlie Slowes, I never did manage to get on the phone and talk to them on their post-game shows. Perhaps the lack of reaction in general led to the indifference, but I doubt it. I truly believe that until the mood of the DC Government about the Nats changes, the Post will utterly fail to support them.

This just proves that hunting is safer than the World Baseball Classic. He missed a whole season when he did that.

@Month and a half

It's not the city government's mood that has to change, it's the attitude of the media outlets that must be influenced. Whenever the Redskins are going good, it means more eyeballs to television stations, newspapers and web sites as well as more ears tuned to the "sports talk" stations. It's a matter of supply and demand. It's heinous that baseball fans only get two hours worth of air time , on saturday morning no less, in which as many woe-is-the-Os callers participate as Nationals fans. The print, broadcast and Internet media don't fell as if they HAVE TO DO ANYTHING to mollify baseball fans. I hate to make this analogy, but we're viewed as Capitals fans are - they are only a finite number of people who really care about the Nats and that number is much less than people who follow the Redskins. Even though you see Nats gear worn throughout the region - and that includes you too Baltimore - newspaper editors and television sports producers can't get their heads around the idea that there is a baseball information vacuum that needs to be filled year-round. Even Comcast shafts us since they lost the Nats and Os to Mr. Angelos's Sports Network. I tell ya....we get no respect.

As another interesting aside, Clemens, Pettitte, Brian McNamee (personal trainer to Clemens and longtime Yankees/Astros employee), Kirk Radomski (the Mets clubhouse attendant), and Chuck Knoblauch have now been asked to testify before Congress on January 16.

See Washington Post article at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/04/AR2008010402867.html?nav=rss_sports

It seems to me that based on what I've read of the Mitchell Report, perhaps along with Miguel Tejada (from whom I'd imagine a Sammy Sosa-like performance on forgetting how to speak English), Paul LoDuca would have to be on the short list of the next round of people to testify.

I can't fault the Nats for not puting a lot of marketing $$/effort right now. For one thing, it is months until summer (sorry -- I'm counting the days until ST just like the rest of us -- but that's the fact).

For another, I'm glad I don't have to hear adverts for the NFL team during the MLB season (of course when the NFL preseason games overtake the TVs in public houses near the end of the MLB season I get *irate*).

To all of you who made the Ayala/Cheney remarks: I'm glad someone else was there to make the obvious wisecrack so I didn't have to.

To timmytim: Yes, exactly. Well played. I don't think that really is a shot (rimshot, buckshot, or otherwise) at 506.

My question to you guys is this: How hard will it be to get tickets to the SATURDAY, MAR 29, exhibition game vs. Baltimore ... the first time that the Nationals park has its doors open? That may be the one time all year when I won't feel bad if I don't care as much about the game as about the park.

was it #9 target load, #8 birdshot, or double-ought buck. now that would hurt. i wonder how you catch fish with a Remington 870?

You can talk about the new ballpark, tickets, marketing, etc., but if they don't win games, there'll be no attendance, we'll have an abundance of tickets, and no marketing strategy will solve any problems. We need legitimate star-quality ballplayers here, and I don't see management getting them. BTW, I'm still looking for my lead-off hitter...

@I hate walks

Unless you're a STH, you can't get tickets to the March 29 Os-Nats exhibition.

The comments people are making about selling season tix first makes sense, but the Nats should have a pretty good idea by now how many they will sell. If it's, say, 20,000, then that leaves 21K * 81 games tickets left to sell. Why not try to create the buzz to sell them now? That's a lot of tickets ST holders won't buy.

For season tix, neighborhood associations often by 4-8 or more packages at different parts of a ballpark and then let members buy. I know Columbia Assoc in Md did this with O's tix, does anyone know if they also sell Nats tix now? If you sell 4 ST packages to 150 neighborhood associations, thats 600 more ST's - not bad...

So, yes, I'd say to focus on the ST's now, but they also need to create some excitement about the upcoming season for folks who just want to go to 5 or fewer games in 2008 - maybe that's in the works, hopefully. Yet, I see no evidence...

One other point - why not offer a smaller than 20 game partial season tix plan? Why not 10 - 15 games. 20 is a lot of games and $'s for families, others...

BUT...

Unless there's some unknown massive demand for Nats' ST or vast untapped markets that the team plans to tap then the other types of marketing in my previous posts or better, more creative ideas - remember I have no marketing background - need to get started soon.

Otherwise, Nats Park will average, say, 24-25K fans and we'll become the NL East equivalent of the Pgh Pirates - I'd rather the team aspire to, one day, and this will take 10 years or more, become the NL equivalent of the Red Sox (in victories and ticket sales!).

Also, get well wishes to Mr. Ayala...and hopes Livan will join him again on the Nats and C.S. will describe their performances again in the 2008 season.

"Then again, as much as I enjoy Charlie Slowes, I never did manage to get on the phone and talk to them on their post-game shows."

You must not have been trying very hard then. Many was the night that Gary from Gainesville was seemingly the only caller. You mean you couldn't out-dial him at least once?

"which brings up another interesting point. we all know how the redskin players are connected to the community here. granted, it's a *FAR* more established team/franchise, but these are the kind of efforts that are needed to make the same kinds of connections. the redskins FO doesn't have to arrange as many "events" for skins players because many of them already do some of that on their own, and are more available to the community in general."

Other than appearing in Eastern Motors commercials or other ads (for which they get paid), doing other commercial appearances (for which they get paid), or hanging out at local bars or Wizards games, etc, what exactly are all these Redskins players doing for the community anyway? Other than the likes of Joe Gibbs and Darrell Green, who do seem to have a bit of a social conscience, I haven't seen much. Enlighten me.

"For season tix, neighborhood associations often by 4-8 or more packages at different parts of a ballpark and then let members buy. I know Columbia Assoc in Md did this with O's tix, does anyone know if they also sell Nats tix now? If you sell 4 ST packages to 150 neighborhood associations, thats 600 more ST's - not bad..."

A neighborhood association or anyone else for that matter is perfectly free to go onto the Nats website right now and buy as many season tickets as they'd like. They can choose full season plans, half season plans or 20-game plans, and select down to the particular seats they want. If they don't have web access, they can call the Nats ticket office and do the same. So, your point is...?

Other than appearing in Eastern Motors commercials or other ads (for which they get paid), doing other commercial appearances (for which they get paid), or hanging out at local bars or Wizards games, etc, what exactly are all these Redskins players doing for the community anyway?
------------------

Todd Collins collects wine, and being blogged about all the time on the Sports Bog probably doesn't hurt.

(If anything, I would says the Wizards and DC United have the strongest neighborhood presence. Oh, Gilbert and your thousands of dollars to area schools.)

'nother new post.

I'm wondering how you can get "sprayed" with a single pellet?
**********************
was it #9 target load, #8 birdshot, or double-ought buck. now that would hurt. i wonder how you catch fish with a Remington 870?

Posted by: shotgun boy | January 4, 2008 06:09 PM

I was wondering that, too.

---

I'm wondering how you can get "sprayed" with a single pellet?

My husband says that it's possible depending on how far one is from the firing point.

Folks, winning puts backsides in the seats. Period. I remember purchasing 4 Red Sox tickets a few rows from Pesky's pole in 1998 against the then AL champion Indians, about 2 weeks before the game. Since the Red Sox started going to the ALCS and winning the WS almost every year in this decade, trying to get just 2 tickets together to see the Royals or Rays during the week is impossible, unless you go on Stub Hub.

My point is obvious. The Nats are the new game in town and only lifetime Washingtonians or baseball fans who moved into the area are on the Bandwagon right now. If the Lerner's build a solid organization that is competative nearly every year, then the fan base and history will take care of itself.

I love all the Armchair FO talk from a lot of you on a number of topics, but this particular discussion seems to be a little silly.

We have a new Nats blog called Attack of the Nats on the Web. The site is attackofthenats.blogspot.com. Feel free to comment and please tell your friends!

If that is the case, how do you explain how that DC/Largo team has continued to draw in the past few years?

---

Folks, winning puts backsides in the seats.

Shh, don't burst his condescension bubble.

Not to mention the Phillies, Cubs, Red Sox until recently, on one side, and the Braves on the other? Winning helps, but is not required.

*************
If that is the case, how do you explain how that DC/Largo team has continued to draw in the past few years?
---
Folks, winning puts backsides in the seats.
Posted by: | January 5, 2008 02:25 PM