I won't criticize a player for getting paid whatever they can negotiate--that's the system, and Zimm didn't invent it. That said,
"if he's willing to do a market signing, we are prepared to do that with him. We're not going set all new markets with him." is only reasonable. Go win something first, and then talk about (your client) getting top money.

Of course, that may be colored by the fact that I have to put my boots and coat on and go to work now.

That's fine, but I think that Kasten's definition of "market signing" is far different than Zimmerman's and, perhaps, even the market's!

A fair point, and that's where the negotiating comes in, I guess.
**********************
That's fine, but I think that Kasten's definition of "market signing" is far different than Zimmerman's and, perhaps, even the market's!

Posted by: Chris | February 23, 2008 12:29 PM

Thats some really interesting stuff there, another great post by the resident NJ guru. Based on those comments from Bowden, it doesn't sound like anything's going to be accomplished anytime soon. and it appears the front office is just fine with that. now while i would love to see Zimmerman locked up for the next ten years or so with a well-deserved long-term deal, i can kinda see where Bowden and company are coming from. maybe they want to see Zimmerman solidy his place as one of the best(if not THE best) third basemen in the NL and the entire league(Alex who??). i'm pretty sure we all agree that he's done enough to warrant such a contract already, but the fact is his stock can only get higher and another HUGE season would give him all of the leverage and be beneficial to both sides. Either way im confident they'll get the deal done, it just might take a whole lot longer than we'd like it to.

That one's for you Jim.

... as for Zim, the team is doing it right. The blunt and awful truth is that Ryan came along just a bit too soon for this team which is still getting its foundation secured.

... as for Bret and JimBow, I'm satisfied with Jim's response, and gratified he took the time to respond.

how much you wanna bet RZ and his agent want his deal to outstrip the one signed by that other young NL 3B that hails from the tidewater area? that set a pretty high "market," i can see why stan would be shopping at a different one... for now.

We have a plan and the market is just going to have to follow it.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
That's fine, but I think that Kasten's definition of "market signing" is far different than Zimmerman's and, perhaps, even the market's!

Posted by: Chris | February 23, 2008 12:29 PM

Laughing here, "Stan"

Picking it up again from the pre-spring enthusiasm of the preantepenultimate post, A Long Fly Ball, and WMP shots to left:
I would LOVE to see him rattle the blossoms off the cherry trees, preferably on national TV. I can see it now in my head, a great TV shot.
What to do with opposition home runs? Years ago, the Angels had a big bucket in right for fans to throw money (coins) into when Reggie Jackson hit one (a local custom then for the Jax). Maybe there could be a big "ball bag" near the red seats to throw them into. Of course, sitting anywhere near it would be kind of dangerous, like sitting next to the emergency door on an airplane... so maybe that needs more thought.

NO NO NO I GOT IT -- throw them into the NATS bullpen. That'll motivate the suckers to keep the ball in the yard!

ACCOUNTABILITY, in Washington: you asked for it, you got it!

Oooh, if this catches on I can see a whole marketing campaign to base on it.

Here's a sample: ADD Harry S Truman (ala the Rushmores, of course) to the bullpen to catch them.
Cheers up the home crowd after an opposition shot, steals the momentum.

NAME the bullpen "the HST Cabinet Room" or is that too much of a DC inside joke?
You think they'd get away with naming the opposition bullpen the Nixon Room? OK, maybe not...

See, cuz Harry "relieved" FDR, and Ford relieved Nixon? get it?
OK, maybe not.

add truman after a giant john wilkes booth jumps from the crowd and takes down lincoln...too soon?

So a rejuvenated Perez wins Comeback Player of 08 in a close vote over Patterson and Hill. WMP positively defoliates left field and NL pitchers, LMilz becomes the Brett Butler of his generation, Da Meat shows 2007 to have been a warmup for the real thing, Zimmerman makes Bowden very very sorry he didn't sign him for $5M when he had the chance, but the Nick Johnson for Derek Jeter trade surprises and pleases all concerned. (OK, that last one was maybe a little unrealistic, given Jeter's age.)

A mixed metaphor, and maybe not the mood we're going for. Nice try, though.
************
add truman after a giant john wilkes booth jumps from the crowd and takes down lincoln...too soon?
Posted by: love | February 23, 2008 01:46 PM

On another subject. There is now an ad for John J. Kirlin on the scoreboard.

Are they actually selling advertising for us obsessive types, or is this just a perk of being the mechanical contractor?

Interesting thought, C50. They have to test it first, but I wonder if they do promote the eyeballs via the cam as a perq of the deal?

Which reminds me, when do they turn the cameras off? By the first game? First regular season game?
There's another promotional idea -- leave 'em on for a few weeks.

Although "Superflush" isn't the most inspiring slogan, IMO.

Superflush!
You're gonna make your fortune off of Rush.
But if you lose, don't ask no questions--hush.
The only game you know is "K or Crush."
oooo, Superflush!

Pay the man....we need Ted Leonsis to call up Stan and brag to him: "I paid my guy, whats up with you? getting beat out by the NHL?"

Also, surprised with how advanced he was huh Jimbo? I'm a big fan of the F.O. (as some would say, a plan loyalist) but I'm sure Jimbo had ole daddy Boone chirping in his ear on this one. But holy crap, look at our trade possibilities with 4 middle infielders who can still play, a duo of more than capable 1st basemen, an outfielder or two (I like all the potential of all 4 -WMP,LM,ED, and AK - but let's look at the simple logistics and throw in JMAX and Burgess, whoo), and we're building a stable of arms. Now am I saying do all of these? Heck no. But oh the possibilities.

Dave, Barry, anyone--

Will all? (any?) of the Nat's spring training games be on MASN?

Although the games start next week, there is no schedule on MASN. Perhaps you have covered this; but I was looking forward to seeing them again this year. Any information would be appreciated - especially is it is positive. Thanks.

The Ovechkin parallel is a good one. Zimmerman may not be Ovechkin quality-wise, but this team needs a face of the franchise, and signing Zimmerman long term would convince the fan base of a real committment by the front office.

This team is growing increasingly frustrating with its personnel decisions --quality players (Zimmerman, Johnson) are downgraded while scrap heap types or attitude problems seem welcome. Zimmerman, no, Elijah Dukes, yes. Johnson loses his starting job after breaking his leg on the field and spending a year and a half rehabbing to a guy who has worse stats.

I'm not liking the way things are going.

The next time Bowden or Kasten bring up 'market value' for Zimmerman's contract, would someone ask them if $35 per game to park at a regular season major league baseball game is 'market value'?

>> This team is growing increasingly frustrating with its personnel decisions --quality players (Zimmerman, Johnson) are downgraded while scrap heap types or attitude problems seem welcome. <<

Good point, Ray. You get the sense that the improved talent and better economics of the club are starting to outrun Bowden's compete-on-the-cheap approach. Somehow I'd feel better if Rizzo were the GM and Kasten moved to the background (like most team presidents are).

Hey guys...another ticket question for anyone who knows. I know STH are only allowed to get 2 additional tix for OD right now but what happens on March 4? Can I get 4 OD tix at once so we can all sit together, or do I have to try and order 2 and then 2 more somewhere else?

Ben: Come March 4, anyone can buy any number of tickets they can get their hands on, STH or not.

I don't get all the angst over Zimmerman. Zim's certainly not upset about it. The kid clearly just wants to play ball.

Someone wrote a long time ago, and I agree, that we just don't know what's going on. How do we know Zim doesn't benefit a heckuva lot more by waiting for a stellar year? We certainly aren't going to lose him anytime soon.

It should have been clear to fans that offers of reasonable long-term deals had been made, but the agent had other things in mind. These pre-abitration-year signings are always done when it is a good long-term deal for the team. Fans who think there is some reason to lock up a guy who is under club control, simply because they think it will make the player happy, are simply foolish and ignorant of the system. Luckily, our third baseman is an intelligent human being.

Stan, if you do read this stuff...you need to understand that this team needs to spend some real money on quality big leaguers sometime soon, or the fans are going to get angry.

No one expects Yankee or Red Sox money to be spent, but for cripes sakes, can you bring in one quality proven big leaguer or sign Zim!

There certainly is a spectrum here, and I'm not a member of each end. I'm not saying go out and throw money away on "quality proven big leaguer", but reward the guys we got - especially this one, who has done everything you've asked and more while being having the absolute most weight on his shoulders of any 24 year old I know. The city, MLB, and the media know that when Zim goes, so do the Nationals --- I mean seriously, he's not the best ever (yet) but look you've asked him to do and under the circumstance he's in.

Does he deserve Tulowitzki type cash? I don't know, I'm not an expert in "the market", but you can at least pay him more than a fraction of what you're paying Felipe Lopez.

Also, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say Zims is cool with this and waiting around for a bigger payday. I understand he's a good kid and wants to play, but reality check - professionals want to get paid. In today's world it is "what have you done for me lately"....so if his agent has any brains then he negotiates a pretty darn good deal because (lately) he deserves one. With expectations already set in stone for him, he is at much more risk to depreciate than appreciate. Expectations are a MF'er - "take what you can get, when you can get it"

Stan, don't listen to him. Unless he can name which quality big leaguers you should actually spend big money on, or just how, exactly, big money automatically translates into success.

Not sure what the big deal about Zimmerman is (regarding a contract, not about him personally).
Ryan Howard just went to arbitration and got a SILLY bump in salary. Zimmerman is under the Nats control for the next two seasons (I believe) and then he becomes eligible for arbitration. There is plenty of time to get a long term deal done.
People need to relax.

There is no rush to sign Zimmy yet. He'll likely get more by waiting it out. Now, a little envelope (like Mannys) would be a nice gesture wouldn't it. Might be some rules about that as he isn't part of management. Anyway, I wouldn't worry, he'll get his one way or another. I just hope it's with the Nats.

The Nats' unwillingness to sign Zim is just another example of the team's penny pinching policies.

And they wonder why the season ticket base is only 18,000...keep it up and it will get lower -- much lower -- next year.

If I was as talented as Zimmerman (and I'm not saying that I'm not) I would not sign a long term deal until I had hit 30/125/.300. I could be giving away MILLION$ if I signed early. MILLION$. If he ahs the year most of us expect, his value this time next year is going to be much higher. On the other hand, if I'm the Nationals, I'm in no rush to sign the guy with 4 years of control left to go. I'd happily pay market value or even a little more, but I'd like to see that average bounce back, those errors reduced, and that power stroke develop before I lock in on what Zimmermann is probably asking for.

(BTW, I am willing to concede that Zimmerman might be slightly more talented than me. Also, younger and slightly better looking)

yeah, they're "unwilling" to sign him. cuz they're "devaluing" zimmerman. do you people think before you type?

"The next time Bowden or Kasten bring up 'market value' for Zimmerman's contract, would someone ask them if $35 per game to park at a regular season major league baseball game is 'market value'?"

If people are paying it, then it is market value. And I have heard more than one report from persons who requested the $35 parking but got awarded the $25 parking instead because the $35 parking was already filled. So yes, $35 for parking appears to be market value for parking around Nationals Park.

"The Nats' unwillingness to sign Zim is just another example of the team's penny pinching policies."

swanni, you need to repeat the fifth grade or whatever grade it was where you should have learned some reading comprehension skills. You are responding to a post where Dave explains how the team is willing to sign Zim at market rate (presumably David Wright numbers) but he is unwilling to sign. Yet you talk about the team being unwilling to sign Zim. They are not unwilling to sign him, but they're not going to break the market to do so. Good move on their part. When Zimmerman puts up an above market year or two, then he'd be justified in demanding above-market money. But he hasn't done that. He hasn't even come close. Why should the Nationals pay above average money for an average performer?

Thanks for the info, NJ and Jimbo. We have to lock down Zimm, but as noted by the team, many posters and the player himself, there isn't a huge hurry here. But we do need to sign him before arbitration. As a long suffering Skins fan, I couldn't stand it if the Nats start disrespecting their home grown guys like The Danny does. I want to see Zimm (from my 20 game pack in infield upperdeck) at 3B for a long time. I want to cheer for the team, not the uniforms. I want to like this team more than that other team I cheer for, and so far I do so don't blow it for me, ok? That said, there is time to get this done so no need to be upset this year.

As to MASN, I also want to know about pre-season (are they going to ignore us for college hoops all preseason?) and WHAT ABOUT HD? (grumble, grumble, grumble)

Why are people so quick to play the "they're cheap card?" We don't know what kind of offers have gone back and forth between the parties. Maybe Zim's agent is being ridiculous with the kind of money he wants for his client.

Stan may have ticked me off with the way he treated 20 gamers with regards to OD tickets, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

The "they're cheap" horse is dead for Pete's sake, stop beating it.

WRT MASN and Spring Training games...

It's not just the web site, my TiVo has no games listed (Nationals or that other team). Now we should also consider that weekday day games may not be the most likely to be in the list so the only good shots (early on) are the 7:05 at FLA game on the 27th, the weekend games on the 1st and 2nd (two of the three of which are vs. the BOs -- one at them and one at us), the at LAD game on the 4th (7:05) and the game hosting the Mets on the 6th (also 7:05). All these slots appear (as best I recall after walking upstairs) to be filled with college basketball... Well, the listings stop at 5pm on the 6th at this point so I can't say for sure on the Mets game...

Hey, we do get the game at the Tigers on ESPN on the 18th. That's something, right?

Right?

yeah...

Cheap?

What is wrong with Grady Sizemore money? Robinson Cano or Troy Tulowitzki money? Don't be daft, folks! I know that Zim's agent is trying to go for the gold ring, but the club is COMPLIMENTING Zimmerman by calling them his peers.

Zimmerman has two years, one not quite as good as the first. I believe he is worth those contracts, but the team takes a serious chance when they wrap someone up for 6 years. Remember Albert Belle?

To me, Bowden's comments show that the team is SERIOUS about signing Zimmerman, not cheap. BTW- let me know if we can do italics somehow. I don't really want to capitalize to emphasize.

I am sure that Zim's agent was very aggressive with his first demand. Why not shoot for the moon when you have a few years to get your aim calibrated? I imagine that Zim's numbers will improve in the new stadium and then the money offered by Stan will have to increase. I see no need to start crying "cheap" at this point, it's starting to resemble a dog who won't stop barking.

Zimmerman-How about 50 000 000 for eight years. I like that. What? Nobody else does?

And Natscan, we definitely have to get together and discuss this team. Do you play golf? Hey Brudenell, here we come. By the way, my wife is a New Brunswicker, up Campbellton way.

What? This is a baseball blog? Sorry! Eh!

Hey yall, just sitting here watching the Caps blow another lead - but figured I'd share something to brighten the day. JD just posted a whole new batch of pictures from inside the stadium, taken today, on her website; www.jdland.com. The work she has done has rivaled that of Mr. Svrluga in making this offseason bearable.

With all of the talk of WMP and Elijah giving the Atlantis a run for its money in hangtime, Hill coming out with some zip on the ole #1 (or in college, it was a number 4 as we called it by the seams, 2 for a 2-seamer, 4 for a 4-seamer), and then JD's shots from today.....I feel like the fat kid in Animal House before they pick up their dates from the all-girls school. "oh boy, oh boy, I hope I score, I hope I score"

JD just posted new pics on her site JDland.com - once again, fantastic work.

With this on top of WMP rivaling The Atlantis hangtime down there on the Space Coast, I just don't know how I'm going to make it through the next 5 weeks.

As Positively Half Street alluded, the guys Bowden trotted out as "the market" were (per ESPN's blog):
"Indians center fielder Grady Sizemore ($23.45 million for six years in March 2006), Braves catcher Brian McCann ($26.8 million for six years in March 2007), Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki ($31 million for six years in January), and Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano ($30 million for four years this month)."

No mention of Wright as a comparable.

While Sizemore and McCann are super ball players, baseball has had two lucrative years since the Sizemore signing. As noted previously, Ian Kinsler just signed for 5 years, $22 million, with a 6th year team option for $10 million, to buy out the same years that RZ has (1 pre arb, 3 arb, 1st year as FA, with an option for the second). Given the talent difference between Kinsler and Sizemore, the $4.4 per year for 5 years, or $5.3 for 6, should be the floor for negotiations. If RZ is asking Cano money for for Tulo years, that'd be $45 for 6 years.

Tulo's contract buys out 2 pre arb years (at major league minimum), so that throws off his annual average. That being said, comparing Zimmerman's performance at this point to what Wright, Tulowitzki, and Howard have actually done is a stretch.

"That being said, comparing Zimmerman's performance at this point to what Wright, Tulowitzki, and Howard have actually done is a stretch."

Exactly. Which is why the team is not cheap if they are not offering him that kind of money. Indeed, one could make a good case that Zimmerman's agent is being greedy by asking for it.

Where are you getting this from? What players (still here) are frustrated by personnel decisions? Maybe I'm not reading the right sources, but these guys seem to like this clubhouse.

And "downgrading Johnson" is just silly talk -- the guy can't stay on the field and everybody knows it. Nice guy, good glove, good hitter, but he's out more than he's in.

So where are you hearing this? I'd like to know.

*********
This team is growing increasingly frustrating with its personnel decisions --quality players (Zimmerman, Johnson) are downgraded while scrap heap types or attitude problems seem welcome. ...
I'm not liking the way things are going.
Posted by: Ray | February 23, 2008 02:44 PM

So they have two years to sign him and they are doing some opening bids now? That all seems very fair.

An sumbbuddy gonna start throwing some shoes inna minnit.
**********
I see no need to start crying "cheap" at this point, it's starting to resemble a dog who won't stop barking.
Posted by: Dale | February 23, 2008 05:42 PM

italics just testing itals

and bumping up Dave's post count average, he's way behind so far, I think...

The better sign my man Zim, I want to double date with the dude the next 12 years!!

not that there's anything wrong with that...

The Cano and Tulowitzki contracts are very similar when you account for the fact that Cano was arbitration eligible and Tulo was 2 years from arbitration. Tulo will be paid 750 per year for the first two years, so they are both around $30 million for 3 arbitration years and the first year of free agency, with an option around $15 million for the second year of free agency.

When Bowden says this is the market, if he means "we have offered Tulo / Cano money," then the Nats have been more than fair. If he means, "So Ryan, we are offering 75% of what those guys got because your numbers have not been as good," then Zimmerman should say "I'll take my chances." I think it is more likely the former than the latter.

+½, the custom from ages past, when chat was all plain text (quaint, I know) is underscores before and after for _italics_ and asterisks for *bold*.
***********************
BTW- let me know if we can do italics somehow. I don't really want to capitalize to emphasize.
Posted by: Positively Half St. | February 23, 2008 05:38 PM

Never underestimate the greed of an agent or the gullibility and naivete of his 23 year old client. Van Wagenen is no doubt telling Zimm he is worth more than he really is, and Zimmerman no doubt believes him. Anyone know who Van Wagenen's other clients are, for comparison purposes?

Why sign Zim now? He's not going anywhere -- the nats have him locked up for 4 more years.

And what "quality proven big leaguer" do you want?? Tomo Ohka? Barry Bonds?? Who's out there? Did you want Torii Hunter right after we traded for Milledge (who will be a much, much, much better deal)

This is what I don't get about the "lerners are cheap!" business. Sure you can spend more money, but on what? Give me names and reasonable salary numbers.

I think if you read what I wrote, I said that the team is getting frustrating, not that the team is getting frustrated. In other words, I, as a fan, am frustrated with the personnel decisions I have been seeing since Sept. 07.

As far as Johnson goes, compare his 2006 with Dmitri Young's 2007. He played in substantially more games, and out performed Young's 2007 numbers in almost every category -- some significantly.

-----
Where are you getting this from? What players (still here) are frustrated by personnel decisions? Maybe I'm not reading the right sources, but these guys seem to like this clubhouse.

And "downgrading Johnson" is just silly talk -- the guy can't stay on the field and everybody knows it. Nice guy, good glove, good hitter, but he's out more than he's in.

So where are you hearing this? I'd like to know.

*********
This team is growing increasingly frustrating with its personnel decisions --quality players (Zimmerman, Johnson) are downgraded while scrap heap types or attitude problems seem welcome. ...
I'm not liking the way things are going.
Posted by: Ray | February 23, 2008 02:44 PM

Posted by: MIB | February 23, 2008 08:36 PM

Van Wagenen played baseball at Stanford and was with IMG - not sure if he still is - He signed a bunch of guys like Mayberry & Lowrie from Stanford and a couple other 1st round picks like Kyle Sleeth and Jeff Clement that I remember.

FYI - David Wright signed a 6 yr extension in 2006 for $55 mil. Essentially bought out his team controlled years and also gave the Mets a team option for year 7. Similar to all extensions with team controlled players, Wright wont make the big bucks until the last two years of the extension.

The benefit for any young player to sign an extension during his team controlled years is simple; his entire contract is guaranteed. If he has a career ending injury in year 2 of a 7 year deal, he gets paid for 7 years. He wont necessarily make more than he could make through his arbitration years however.

The benefit for a team to sign an extension for a team controlled player is cost certainty. KRod & Howard just hit $10 mil in their arbritration cases. The Phillies and Angels want to extend both players. But, Howard is 29 and wants a huge payday knowing he has already missed out on his "prime years" contract and the market just blew up for premium relievers with the Rivera and Cordero contracts.

Who knows what arbitration numbers will look like in 2012? Having the team controlled years locked up with an extension (and possibly the first year of free agency) allows the team to budget.

This obviously wasnt an issue when the reserve clause was in place and signing extensions really didnt become popular until the Indians started doing it in the early 90's w/ Belle (which WAS a great deal for the Indians), Nagy, Lofton and later Manny. Now its come to the point where even the Yankees are doing it (see Cano).

Zimmerman is part of a players association that negotiated the terms of the current system. Its a system that allows Felipe to lose his arbitration case yet still get a raise after a subpar year. Its a system that allows guys like Zimmerman (with less than 3 full years of service) to maybe make $1 mil this year.

It makes sense for the Nats to do it, but only under reasonable terms. Zimmerman will be a Nat for at least 4 more seasons and I'd expect an extension to be signed within the next year to avoid arbitration. Or maybe they just sign the extension to avoid anymore misconceptions of being cheap on this board.

Ray-

Johnson, a fan favorite, is an example of the team showing a long term commitment. They signed him to an 2007-09 extension in 2006. I dont think 2007 worked out so well for the Nats.

The Nats then showed more commitment by signing Dmitri, a fan favorite, to a two year extension last fall for 2008-09.

What more could the team have done to allay your frustrations? Has there been a free agent over the last two years the Nats should have signed long term? Soriano? I guess they could have if they wanted to pay him $18 mil when he turns 36, 37 & 38 (which are the last 3 years of an EIGHT year deal).

The team has since stated the comeback player of the year will enter spring training as the starting first basemen. Ahead of the potentially more productive player that missed the entire previous season with what could possibly have been a career ending injury. Oh, and this potentially more productive player has a history of injuries.

If Johnson shows he is healthy and productive then he will either be traded or start ahead of Dmitri.

"Never underestimate the greed of an agent or the gullibility and naivete of his 23 year old client. Van Wagenen is no doubt telling Zimm he is worth more than he really is, and Zimmerman no doubt believes him. Anyone know who Van Wagenen's other clients are, for comparison purposes?"

It works both ways:

Never underestimate the greed of an owner or the gullibility and naivete of his general manager and team president. Kasten is no doubt telling Bowden that Zimmerman is worth less than he really is, and Bowden no doubt believes him.

No it doesn't.

Bowden is not 23 years old. Bowden has been working for a living for more than 4 years. And can you seriously imagine *anyone* having to convince Jim Bowden his franchise player is actually worth *more* than Jimbo thinks??

Let's put this another way: have any of you Baratistas ever had to make a payroll? I don't get that feeling here.

*************
It works both ways:
Never underestimate the greed of an owner or the gullibility and naivete of his general manager and team president. Kasten is no doubt telling Bowden that Zimmerman is worth less than he really is, and Bowden no doubt believes him.
Posted by: Chris | February 24, 2008 12:29 AM

Ray, I did misread your post. My bad.
Doesn't change my point much, actually, but you are right about that.

I think it's good Bowden commented on it. Many of have wondered. I took his comments to mean that they offered Cano/Tulo/Granderson money. I think that is generous given Zimm's stats.

I also think he will only get better and the Howard deal just reset the whole market. Not that I think Zimm will put up Howard numbers but I think he'll put up significantly better numbers than he has and could easily be looking at above $5m in his 1st year of arb. The market value Bowden is talking about now is not close to that for that 1st year of arb.

I think it's appropriate if the Nats offered equal to the players I named and smart for Zim to bet on his play improving and wait for arbitration.

If Zimm has a monster year, they may want to lock him for 4-5 years at Wright money rather than let him go to arb.

I also think this is not a big deal. The Nats aren't made Zim is holding out and Zim isn't mad the Nats and putting up Wright money. '08 is key.

2006 was the most games nick played in his career. and it was his career year offensively. don't use that as a basis of judgement for how he'll play this year. while we all hope he will, history doesn't back that up. and they've both had injury issues throughout their careers.

i still don't see how they're "downgrading" nick, tho. *if* he's healthy, he's a very good player. he's been a part of this franchise for four years, he's averaged 87 games a season. he's played in 73, 131, 147, and 0. the three years before that, 23, 129, 96. and they had no idea if/when he'd be back last july. signing DY was prudent to ensure they had at least one 1B for this season. even in september of last year, there were doubts. and even here, people had doubts just a month or two ago.

so please explain how they're "downgrading" NJ. and zimmerman. honestly, i'd like to know.

it sounds to me that zim doesnt really care, and why should he, he knows he has talent and knows he will make more than enough, as long as he is down to earth and smart...which we all know he is. its refreshing that he isnt caught up in this crap

Mr. In-Between-

Thanks for the tip.

I don't know if somebody predicted this already on the last post, but I actually feel now that there is a better than 50% chance that Bret Boone will be our starting second baseman when the season starts. It is starting to have all the feel of a _fait accompli_.

I don't know what that means for Belliard or Lopez (i.e. which gets traded), but I really do believe they have jumped to a pretty serious conclusion on Bret Boone. I hope that instinct turns out to be correct if that is where we are going.

Nice piece in today's Metro section on a "dry run" for the ballpark plumbing, AKA "Super Flush."

I think a lot of young guys take the contract because they want a check now. There was a story about Tulo buying the Maserati he always wanted. Good for him. But Zim is thinking long term and I'm confident 6 years from now will have a much higher net worth than Tulo because of his patience. I'd like to think I would do it Zimm's way. Struggle to get buy on only $400k for one more year and be looking at something like $5-8m in arb next year, vs $3.5 next year if he signed Bowden's market deal.

Important point here is that teams sign these guys to these contracts to SAVE MONEY! They are not being generous.

And let's not be crazy and call a team "cheap" for not paying millions of dollars that they don't have to pay. That would be stupid and would mean less money for other players and therefore a weaker team.

PS - The YANKEES, only gave Cano $3m his first arb year and only a 4 year deal (w/ two club options). Even they would only pay the market rate, just like Bowden.

So, I guess the Yankees are "cheap" too.

Frankly, I think Cano was a fool to sign that deal. Even if he lost his arb case, he would have made more money this year! If he wins, it would have been $1.55m MORE! That's just this year.

That would be a "+½" chance, then?

You might be on to something, although I think you're over-estimating by about 17%. Manny said Lopez would be given every chance to win a job, but he didn't say whose, or over whom (or with which team, IIRC, but let's not overdo this). If you believe Manny, then it's an open competition for 2nd, with Belli on the inside lane, and ss being Guzzie's to lose or give up to injury. But yes, I think they may also give Bret Boone every chance to win a job, but not necessarily with THIS team. SD, just for instance, have Iguchi for one year, with a rule 5 guy, Callix Crabbe (good All-Name Team prospect, btw), right behind him. Having 3 viable ML 2nd basemen in camp has to look pretty good to them about March 20.

***********
I actually feel now that there is a better than 50% chance that Bret Boone will be our starting second baseman when the season starts.

Posted by: Positively Half St. | February 24, 2008 08:05 AM

I would hope for a return to the days before free agency where a player was your player unless he was traded. Free agency has been the ruination of professional sports. Every sports article in the papers always mention the players earnings. The American way is "get what you can get", but 400K is an obscene amount of money for playing baseball. The 12million dollar contracts are much worse. A-Rod gets $185,000 per game? Can he sleep after an 0 for 4 night where he committed 2 errors? Meanwhile, a surgeon can repair a teenagers liver after a horrible auto accident, plus faces the possibilities of lawsuits. Next time A-Rod goes 0 for 4, he should be sued for malpractice.

New Post.
Hey, Dave, get them to put the new post in the menu.

I believe Zimmerman is better (all around) than practically all the comparisons. Better than Cano, Tulowitzki(check his stats away from Coor's Field),Granderson,Kinsler, McCann. Not Sizemore or Howard,although I wouldn't trade RZ even up for either of them because of position.
$50 000 000 for eight years. If Zimm and his agent think he's worth more than that at this stage-well, they can stuff it.
As a everyday person, I've always had trouble getting my head around the salaries of athletes. Half the time they don't even produce due to injury or just lack of Skill?
$25 000 000 isn't enough money. Oh, we want the highest salary of all, do we. The greed and narcissism sometimes, just overwhelms me.
Heck, the average family has to mortgage the house to go to a game, often to watch ineptness on the field.

i agree with Ray - i don't like the way things are going. our star players Zim and Nick Johnson are getting lousy treatment compared to the likes of the other has beens and wanna be's. Kasten & Bowden made Zim the face of the team and put a heavy weight on that young man's shoulders and he produced - give him what he wants and lock him in. all of this just shows me Kasten & Bowden have no loyalty to players or fans. they are users making big bucks off of them and us.

OK, one more time: Nick Johnson is NOT A STAR ANYTHING. He's a walking DL, except when he can't walk.
He's a nice guy with a really good OBP, but he is out of the lineup more than he's in.

and the Zimm-as-face-of-the-team thing -- how's that working for ya? Seen any season ticket sales records lately?