Thanks Barry.

"An e-mail notification will be sent this week to all season ticket holders with details regarding these pre-sale opportunities."
Let the next countdown begin...

$335 bucks is a bargain at thrice the price!

Bobbleheads now only to the first 15,000 customers? Can this team get cheaper?

I'm afraid the answer is yes.

Anybody have the link to the Nats Park Seating Chart. I can't find it on www.nationals.com anymore

nevermind here it is http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/was/ticketing/season_seatingpricing.jsp

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/was/ticketing/season_seatingpricing.jsp

Are fewer promotions part of the Plan, too?

Are the Nats afraid that their young players won't be able to develop if their fans get more bobble heads and T-shirts?

Give me a break...It's on the cheap, folks.

It's not uncommon for teams to limit the number of items available, particularly for something of collectible value like a bobblehead. If you really want one, get your ticket in advance and get there early -- that's what they want to encourage.

Barry,

Lest you think we no longer appreciate you, the title of the last post was very clever and amusing. I smiled.

As of 12:30 pm ET Tuesday, Nationals.com has not yet been updated with the info Barry has provided here.

The Dodgers -- a class organization -- offers Bobble Heads to the first 50,000 fans, not the first 15,000. So your statement is false.

Back to our starting pitching, and being an overly-optimistic fan--after all, no one's better than us right now!--I'll try for outlier status:

Patterson, 25 starts, 15 wins, era at 3.25, Ks - 180 (no dl time, but Manny has him skip a couple of starts)

Hill, 28 starts, 19 wins, an era just under 3, Ks -150 (Manny eases off the pace for 33 starts in August)

Wins climb because we're such a better hitting team; eras drop because our infield and outfield are better. [And Bill Richardson will be the next president of the United States!]

On Livo, I'm happy to see him off the table--he isn't worth $7 million even if the Lerners aren't cheap.

On individual game tickets, I personally find the front office has made good on its promises--I was told by the ticket sales operation in November not to expect individual games on sale before the end of February, and that advice has been consistent through my interactions with them through late last month.

Even this site's anti-Christ, Peter Angelos, is giving away 25,000 bobble heads at Oriole promotions.

Didn't think anyone could get cheaper than him, but I was wrong.

Woo Hoo! I am anxiously awaiting that email about the pre-sale. I must have the Curly W lanyard!! Thanks for the post, Barry.

HMMMM. It was my understanding that the Dougout Box was sold out. If so, how can they sell tickets for $75-$80? IMO, the "Good-Old-Boys" were hooked-up with those season tickets and the rest will be sold on a per game basis to make even more money.
"The Plan" is comming together now. (1) MLB milks the city for a new stadium, (2) we (the true fans) put up with a bad team and terible stadium for three seasons, and (3) in the new stadium the owners and MLB get every cent possible out of Corporate seating and throw away the true fans. Sounds like a typical owner of a DC area sports team. My guess is that "The Plan" calls for a ticket increase every year until a new stadium is built in 2058 for the Nats.

swanni, promotions aren't paid for by the team. they're sponsored events. that means the team isn't cheap, it means the sponsors aren't willing to put up the cash. which means the sponsors are cheap. so if you're pissy about only 15k bobbleheads being given out, go b1tch at PNC. want more than 10k tshirts? complain to tickets.com.

i swear, some people just *need* to b1tch about stuff.

By the way, has the Post done a story yet on how much the Nats will make in profits from those lofty parking prices? I'm not saying they will, but has the Post even asked?

Doubtful.

Swanni, do you want my bobblehead? I think they're kind of a dumb knick-knack for kids, honestly.

No, it means the team is cheap because, unlike other teams -- teams runs professionally -- the Nats will not contribute to the Bobble Head promotion. Most promotions like that are financed by the sponsor and the team.

There is only ONE Bob L. Head. The rest are imposters.

If it was up to the sponsor only, how can the O's offer 25,000 bobble heads? Are you suggesting that the Nats' new stadium is not a more attractive marketing opportunity than the O's. Or, could it be that the Nats' marketing/sponsorship team is far inferior to the O's marketing/sponsorship team.

Answer: Neither.

It's about being cheap.

I have NEVER sold out. I don't know how these rumors get started.

********
It was my understanding that the Dougout Box was sold out.
Posted by: ChrisC | February 12, 2008 12:37 PM

Not only do the Dodgers give out bobbleheads to the first 50,000 fans, but most of their promotions are directed either to ALL fans in attendance (or 14 and under for kids promotions), or to the first 50,000.

Compare the Nats' promotional schedule with the 2007 Dodgers, both in the quantity of promotional games and the number of items distributed.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/schedule/tentative_2007_promo_schedule.jsp

The Nats ownership has a lot to learn if they're going to build a strong fan-base in D.C. L.A. has one of the best fan-bases in the majors, and the team is still committed to doing the small types of things that are needed to bring people out to the park night after night and make fans feel appreciated.

This is not a good sign.

Keep the d@mm bobblehead, give away Clint.

so you *know* that teams contribute to them? or you're just presuming because it makes your argument better?

"The Dodgers -- a class organization -- offers Bobble Heads to the first 50,000 fans, not the first 15,000. So your statement is false."

So the Dodgers are generous. That doesn't mean the Nationals are cheap. The Dodgers also apparently don't care that the large majority of their fans only show up for the third through seventh innings. The Nationals apparently would like their fans to be in their seats for the whole game, so they're offering an incentive for folks to get there early.

And actually, it's not the teams that pay for these bobbleheads, it's the sponsors. So the correct statement, swanni, would not be that the Nationals are cheap. The correct statement would be that PNC Bank is cheap. Another correct statement would be that swanni is too cheap to buy a clue. And whenever he buys a shot, you can guarantee it will be the cheap one.

This Just In:

The 'Kids Run the Bases' program this year will include a Toll Booth at each base.

So 419,
How do you explain the O's giving out 25,000 bobble heads?

Not sure I like the idea of every Saturday night game being a premium one. For those who might be curious, these are the teams we'll be paying extra to see on Saturdays:

ATL, CHC, PIT, FLA, MIL, SF, TEX, BAL, HOU, CIN, COL, ATL, SD

Seriously, dude, these promotions are for kids. Who the heck cares? You're a lot more legit when you're complaining about cheapness on players.

Then again, methinks mayhaps I shouldn't complain too much, seeing as half of them are on my 20-game plan (that I already paid for)... :-)

The promotional schedule is all Bush's fault. He made the Lerner's do it.

"L.A. has one of the best fan-bases in the majors, and the team is still committed to doing the small types of things that are needed to bring people out to the park night after night for at least half of the game (more or less, depending on how late their poolside lunch went and how early they'll have to leave to beat the traffic out) and make fans feel appreciated."

Fixed your post.

The point is that the poor promotional effort is more evidence that the team's "economical" approach is not about any Plan. That's a smokescreen. It's really about being cheap.

Whether it's the players, the promotions or the parking -- this team will not spend what a professional outfit needs to spend to build a fan base and put a winning team on the field.

And the Post is a silent conspirator by failing to ask the tough questions a big city newspaper is supposed to ask.

===
How do you explain the O's giving out 25,000 bobble heads?

Posted by: swanni | February 12, 2008 12:50 PM
===

is it really that hard to figure out? sponsors in baltimore are willing to spend more on their team than sponsors are in washington. baltimore is a old, storied franchise with deep roots in the community. the nats are new. it's not rocket science.

swanni, somehow i doubt anything less than the money the yankees spend would make you happy, anyway. and even then, you'd find something to complain about.

231,
That's laughable. It's a new stadium in the nation's capital!

Find one team in baseball that doesn't offer more than 15,000 bobble heads. I bet even the Devil Rays and Marlins do better than that.

i feel there should be more volume in the promotions - but a counter to that arguement would be the losers that take anywhere from 5-10 bobbleheads and put them on ebay for a profit. and yes, that really upsets me, especially when i am sure some kids would really love to have them.

so, measuring the incentive for the fantatic collectible weirdo or the family with kids to get to the park early - who is more obsessed with milking a situation for a profit and who is there for the enjoyment of the game?

the promotions last year were a joke. in one instance i saw two gentleman with 14 bobbleheads. i dont care if they purchased 14 tickets, thats just sleezy. i wanted to go down there and in my best robin hood impersonation, take them all and give it to some kids in the upperdeck that didnt get in the line soon enough.

so the fact that they are limiting the supply, will just perpetuate this flaw in the system. i normally dont rant, so i apologize. i get heated about this topic.

"So 419,
How do you explain the O's giving out 25,000 bobble heads?"

The sponsor's name on each one is painted on with asbestos. This means 25,000 more names in Peter Angelos's eventual class action suit against the sponsors. Remember, these bobbleheads are given to Red Sox and Yankees fans who have no residual hatred of Angelos, so they'll believe him when he tells them he had no knowledge of this hazard, and that indeed he himself was duped by those sponsors when he made the deal with them. One thing I guess you can say about evil, swanni. It ain't cheap. Angelos is currently in negotiations with other sponsors to buy off the judge and juries, but it's a tougher sell there.

no more laughable than a lot of your "cheap" claims, swanni. but probably more accurate. ;)

They.

Are.

Just.

[RF].

Bobbleheads.

Should that period go inside or outside of the brackets?

sheesh, is this a Post blog or a swanni and 419 blog?

"sheesh, is this a Post blog or a swanni and 419 blog?"

Hey, you're not paying anything for it (are you cheap?), so why do you care?

here are the teams that have posted their promotion schedules on mlb.com, and how many bobbleheads they're giving away:

10,000 -- Twins, Cubs
15,000 -- Athletics
20,000 -- Giants, Rangers, Royals
25,000 -- Orioles, Cardinals, D'Backs, Mariners
30,000 -- Reds
All Fans -- Indians, Phillies
NO Bobbleheads listed as a giveaway -- Blue Jays, Marlins

The rest of the teams have not posted their promotions schedule as of yet.

Hmmm, 10,000 bobbleheads for the Cubs. Yup, they're cheap.

BTW ... here's a list of the teams that are giving away T-shirts, and how many:

10,000 -- O's, A's, Blue Jays, Cubs
15,000 -- Mariners, Marlins
20,000 -- Giants, Rangers, Reds, Royals
25,000 -- Cardinals
35,000 -- D'Backs
All Fans -- Indians, Phillies
NO T-shirt listed as a giveaway -- Twins

The number of giveaways varies from team to team. So what if the Nats are giving away 10,000 of this or if the O's are giving away 25,00 of that. I don't give a flying @#$! These giveaways are not predicated on cheapness. And who's to say that next season the Nats won't offer more giveaways? Anyone know how many T-shirts or bobbleheads the O's gave away their first couple of seasons at Camden Yards? Does anyone really care?

I'm cracking up that premium games are $335 vs. $325 for regular games in the Presidential seats.

$10 bucks on that much money really makes a difference??

As a SW DC resident and someone who was hoping to frequent the $5 grandstand seats quite a bit, I'm a little disappointed that the box office doesn't open until 10 a.m. for evening games. I was hoping to pick up a ticket before work and then come back and go to the game. Who is really going to buy tickets between 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. on game days? Maybe during the lunch hour, thats about it. Why not have the box office open 8-10 and then 4-game time?

Well, perhaps I should be excited by all of this discussion over my brethren (and thanks, Grand Duchess), but I'm far more excited about writing "Nats tix on sale" on my calendar in the space marked March 4. This is good news folks! Let's stop making lemons out of lemonade. Some people around here are angry at their office furniture. Leave them alone and don't engage.

For those interested in actual baseball, baseballanalysts.com has a three-part series on the best young players in baseball (Zimmerman and Milledge are mentioned prominently):

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/02/best_young_play_1.php

thanks boblhead. this discussion needed a turn.

Nice link Mr. Head. Delmon's on there too.

For all those bobblehead fanatics:

http://accuratebobbleheadlist.blogspot.com/

sorry, couldnt find a blog specifically for cheap owners and/or cheap sponsors

One thing to consider regarding the guy w/ 14 bobbleheads. Maybe he took a bunch of kids to a game and they let the adult go and wait in line for the bobbleheads, while the kids got to stay in the stands and watch the game. I'm, just saying. The group next to me last year was 2 couples, and they always send one man to go get the bobblers. So, if you saw an old guy w/ 4 bobblers, that was him and his 3 friends.

If anyone is looking for a dope to flame at, I'm your man. All these months, and it hadn't occurred to me that "Bob L. Head" was a play on "bobblehead".

Man, am I dumb.

114E,

thanks for the perspective. i have seen that situation before as well. i reserve judgment until i find proof. in my cases, it was always just a few guys with a whole bunch. im not into stereotyping collectors of anything (being a comic guy) but you can spot the type a mile away.

It's OK, +.5St, I had to Google your new moniker before I understood it (I knew the song, but not the title, even though I have the freakin' CD in my glove compartment). They say your IQ goes down when you have kids.

The period goes outside of the brackets, 506

Doug Outbox. Hilarious!

So, nothing in this press release would lead us to believe that the Grandstand seats for Opening Night won't be held for day-of-game walkup sale, just like all the other games. So in the spirit of Barry asking questions that really can't be answered until things occur, what do you all say to these:

(1) Will there be a line of people camped out at the box office waiting to buy tickets for that game? If so, how many people will be in line and how many hours or days in advance will the first person camp out there to start the line?

(2) Will issues arise related to the line for Grandstand tickets, like controversies over people holding spots in line for others (paid or otherwise), fights breaking out when there are 5,001 people in line for only 5,000 tickets, people buying a walk-up ticket and then turning right around and trying to scalp it for big bucks, etc, etc?

(3) Will the media and bloggers like swanni go apoplectic over their forced inability to scream "The Nationals can't even sell out their own home opener!" because there's no way it can sell out anyway until the day of the game? What else will they go apopleptic over to fill the void?

Talk amongst yourselves.

I guess I fall into the dumb category too. What does positively half street reference?

The Twins only gave out 10,000 bobbleheads last season as well. One of the Nationals games was on Joe Mauer bobblehead day, and I didn't even catch a whiff of one. The closest I came was a raffle voucher for the few extras they were giving out during the game.

Even though they're child novelties, as 506 (BM) noted, I made sure I was at RFK when they gave away Cordero and Guillen bobbleheads. I don't know, they just seemed to give the franchise an air of legitimacy, if that makes any sense.

You got to be kidding me. I go to baseball games to see BASEBALL. I refuse most of the junk on promotion days. I get the opportunity to do so whether it is the first 15 or 5000. Also, most nights/days last year 15,000 covered everyone there. So, if you really care about the stuff, get to the park early. Now let's all get back to BASEBALL!

I'm grateful that they've given up on umbrellas, anyhow. That's the one promotion in the past three seasons (2005, as I recall) that really reeked of cheapness.

The umbrellas were ridiculously fragile, as evidenced by the number of broken ones flung on the ground around the distribution points. And the distribution itself was a veritable stampede. That sticks in my mind because the Orioles used to have an umbrella giveaway in the late 80's or early 90's where the merchandise was really good quality.

Even so, I split the blame between the (then-MLB-owned) Nats and the umbrella sponsor for that shoddy giveaway. Nothing since has been quite that bad.

By the way, PNC refunds bankers for fees they pay to other banks for using their ATMs. In other words, when a PNC banker uses a Bank of America ATM, he or she is refunded the $2 surcharge.

That's why they can only afford 15,000 bobbleheds.

"The Dodgers -- a class organization . . ."

That jeered Paul DePodesta out of town for daring to incorporate quantitative performance metrics into his analyses. And that damn near ran its young players off after the 2007 season before Ned Colletti came to his senses.

Irrespective of promotions, that's the class of organization I don't mind not being a fan of.

"here are the teams that have posted their promotion schedules on mlb.com, and how many bobbleheads they're giving away:

10,000 -- Twins, Cubs
15,000 -- Athletics
20,000 -- Giants, Rangers, Royals
25,000 -- Orioles, Cardinals, D'Backs, Mariners
30,000 -- Reds
All Fans -- Indians, Phillies
NO Bobbleheads listed as a giveaway -- Blue Jays, Marlins"

So I guess the Dodgers only announced their 50,000 bobblehead giveaway via the little voices in swanni's head, eh?

NatsNut-

You need not feel dumb, because mine was more obscure. It refers to the Bob Dylan song "Positively 4th St":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positively_4th_Street

Although I do like Bob Dylan's music, I was mainly hijacking the title for the "positive" aspect (I'm not so interested in running down the team or owners) and Half St, which leads to the entrance of the new stadium. The song was a pretty important one in the Dylan songbook, but it is already over 40 years old.

Natsnut,

... as I understand it, it's a reference to Half St. on which the new stadium is built, then incorporated into the song title 'Positively Fourth Street' by Bob Dylan. Invoking Bob D. needs no further explanation; he is welcome any and everywhere.

""The Dodgers -- a class organization . . ."

That jeered Paul DePodesta out of town for daring to incorporate quantitative performance metrics into his analyses. And that damn near ran its young players off after the 2007 season before Ned Colletti came to his senses.

Irrespective of promotions, that's the class of organization I don't mind not being a fan of."

Not to mention that they turned a blind eye to Paul LoDuca supplementing his income by stealing office supplies from right under the clubhouse attendant's nose.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_le9UeB-j3xI/R2GPst_fIRI/AAAAAAAAAxY/SvyH75cIntw/s1600-h/PLD.jpg

I care very little about how many bobbleheads we are giving away - but I am pretty well convinced that "Swanni" is simply Peter Angelos's screen name.

I am waiting with bated breath for the first pitches of spring to be thrown. It is time to start talking about baseball.

Why isn't there a Paul Lo Duca bobblehead? It would be perfect! And for once no one would ask pesky questions like why his head was disproportionately large.

so it appears that we aren't gonna find any first round talent for the middle infield in the upcoming draft. and of course we've scanned free agents and they are basically all terrible.

this is not good.

jimbo is gonna have to pull off a monster trade. texas could be a strong possibility since they have legit middle infielders in the majors and minors but this is going to be the defining issue through the next year. every team in the NL East has an all-star caliber shortstop except yours truly.

like i said, this is not good...

Found this on baseballprospectus.com:

"Acta is a competitive advantage for the Nationals, a rare manager who thinks deeply about baseball, about his roster, and about every move he makes. That advantage is currently wasted on a roster that has about 65 wins in it, so you can't expect miracles. The hope is that the talent base grows to match Acta's talents before the organization decides to "make a change" for the sake of doing so. He's already one of the five best managers in baseball."

For the record, this is in the same post that said the Nats could be .500 if the pitchers stay healthy or if Milledge and Dukes can fly.

If the bobble heads are for kids, why are they giving them away on SCHOOL NIGHTS? Last couple of years they at least gave them out on Saturday nights.

Longterm-

This is why we need Felipe Lopez to revert to the form that got him to the All-Star Game once.

As for the promotions and all, I am content. I am happy about the discounts that are being offered, including the partnerships with Harris Teeter and the Post. I am so tired of seeing Orioles branded material at Giant. I will try to make an effort to go to Harris Teeter because of the association.

"but I am pretty well convinced that "Swanni" is simply Peter Angelos's screen name."

BRILLIANT, lowcountry. brilliant.

Cool link... Dewiler was also given an honorable mention.

*************************
For those interested in actual baseball, baseballanalysts.com has a three-part series on the best young players in baseball (Zimmerman and Milledge are mentioned prominently):

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/02/best_young_play_1.php

Posted by: Bob L. Head | February 12, 2008 01:24 PM

*DeTwiler

natsnut, you're thinking of the wrong ex-devilray... delmon belongs to minnesota. we got elijah.

"If the bobble heads are for kids, why are they giving them away on SCHOOL NIGHTS? Last couple of years they at least gave them out on Saturday nights."

And got criticized for giving out the bobbleheads only at premium games. No matter what they do with regard to giving out bobbleheads, someone will criticize them for it. If they gave out bobbleheads to all fans like swanni wants them to do, he'd just criticize them for flooding the eBay market and driving down his resale prices.

So clearly, they can't be accused of being cheap on that account...

*******
Not to mention that they turned a blind eye to Paul LoDuca supplementing his income by stealing office supplies from right under the clubhouse attendant's nose.
Posted by: Section 419+1 | February 12, 2008 02:09 PM

Man, we REALLY need some actual BASEBALL in here, soon.

"I am pretty well convinced that "Swanni" is simply Peter Angelos's screen name."

Actually I think he was brutally attacked by all the other kids on the playground and scarred for life when he refused to let them play with his toy bobblehead doll. The dirty little secret he was trying to hide from them is that it wasn't a bobblehead, it was a voodoo doll and he was sticking pins in it.

They're for kids because their cheap pieces of plastic junk with springs for necks, not because of what night they're given out. I mean, really, they're basically happy meal toys. I can understand wanting to collect them or thinking they're a sign of legitimacy, but do so with a strong sense of perspective, not like a kid without his happy meal toy.

Forgot to ask this the first time around: you think they're calling Milledge and Dukes pigs, here, in a subtle snark?

*********
For the record, this is in the same post that said the Nats could be .500 if the pitchers stay healthy or if Milledge and Dukes can fly.
Posted by: Bob [L]. Head | February 12, 2008 02:39 PM

Yes, I used the wrong "their."

I agree with them only giving them to kids. We've still got two excess Jose Guillen bobbleheads we can't seem to give away from a couple of years ago. Any takers?

231: I knew Delmon was a Twin but I guess I'm proud by association.

Thanks for the +.5St explanations. Didn't know about the Dylan song. Good one.

I would think that this would only confirm that he is Peter Angelos.
_____________________________
Actually I think he was brutally attacked by all the other kids on the playground and scarred for life when he refused to let them play with his toy bobblehead doll. The dirty little secret he was trying to hide from them is that it wasn't a bobblehead, it was a voodoo doll and he was sticking pins in it.

more good stuff from bobble. i don't think kasten has a reputation for making a change for the sake of it.

Doh!!

Did I actually write something nice about Swanni a few posts back. Gee whiz, Bobbleheads? Really? That's what we are using as evidence of cheapness? On the ledger sheet of lifetime accomplishments we are balancing spending $800M on a baseball team with an order of a mere 15,000 bobbleheads and determining that the accused is cheap? Somebody needs a calculator and a nap.

Longterm, let's play GMJB (GM Jim Bowden). I think we should find a way to get Brent Lillibridge from the Braves. They're playing Yunel Escobar at short at the moment, and have highly-regarded SS prospect Elvis Andrus in their system as well. Lillibridge came over to them in the deal for Adam LaRoche, so maybe they're not as loyal to him as they might be to a guy that's come up through their ranks. He's 24 and hit a combined .282 between AA and AAA last year (.287 in Richmond), with 13 dingers, 58 RBIs and 42 SBs. According to BA, he has above-average speed, outstanding range and a solid arm, and the potential to bat leadoff if he can shorten his swing and cut down on his Ks. Not only that, but the Braves could use bullpen help and that's one of our strengths. Let's turn a reliever into a young shortstop with the potential to lead off.

I think Elvis Andrus went to Texas as key component in Texeira trade. But that is exactly who i was considering would push Michael Young and Ian Kinsler. They have another good 2b as well in the minors so that opens up a fair amount of options. And we have history of trading with them (soriano/wilkerson)...

I'm not sure if Braves would trade with division rivals but we know that Bowden will. I think Braves and Nats have equally strong farm systems. A trade with them could make a lot of sense too. I like anyone with a strong arm that can steal bases in 40 out of 50 attempts or so. Lillibridge definitely looks like a name to put in the hat.

Is it just me, or is the promotion schedule utterly lame? Opening day lanyards? Like we made at summer camp?

If that is what it is going to be you would think that they would bring back panty-hose nights just for old times sake (and to honor Burt Hawkins!)

alan

You're right about Andrus of course. Note to self: Don't rely on 2007 prospect lists. I'd still like Lillibridge, and the Braves still need BP help, but this removes a good part of my rationale (Andrus was listed as #6 on the BA shortstop list and Lillibridge was #7).

yeah, i was pretty sure elvis was in the rangers' building, too.

but either would be interesting building blocks to go after. of course, depending upon the cost to get them.

we have to hope that JB has had his scouts trolling every minor league system looking for potential MI help for 09 and beyond. if so, he's sure to have looked at both of them. who knows if he's broached the subject with atlanta/texas, but i suspect he may have.

What am I, chopped liver?

---

If that is what it is going to be you would think that they would bring back panty-hose nights just for old times sake (and to honor Burt Hawkins!)

OK, let me try this again. How about dealing for one of the LAA's top-shelf SS prospects in Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar?

I'm looking forward to T-shirt Tuesdays even if it is for the first 10K

I've been reading these blogs for a long time because I'm a huge fan of all things Washington Baseball. I usually don't respond, but it's time to speak up.

We have a young and talented baseball team playing in a NEW state of the art ballpark after waiting 30+ years of no team of our own, and you people complain about Bobbleheads and spin your blogger inside jokes. Though Angelos is the anti-Christ, I'll give you that. But I'd love to hear from those of you that appreciate the game and actually picked up a ball and glove in your day. Who cares if it's 15,000 bobbleheads, get there early. Of course I'd like one, but if I don't get there early enough to get a Zim bobblehead and watch BP like a true baseball fan. Get there to see the ballplayers take their hacks and stay till the last pitch is thrown, and maybe get an autograph. Not take off to beat traffic.

Thats what Washington fans need to worry about to be a true fan base. Going to a ballpark where the people in the seats know what they're talking about, that's how you get a "Fenway" atmosphere. Great franchises are built on tradition, yes it's up to the fan to stay on management that they make the right moves to establish a Big market winner, but not complain about the little nuances that you people gripe about. I'm off my soapbox.

Now Jim, get me a decent starter before the season(Fogg, Benson) and solidify the middle of the infield and I'll stay off the soap box.

what about making a deal with the Dodgers for Rafael Furcal? Looks like the Dodgers are priming Chin-Lung Hu as their starting SS, which could free up Furcal.

Also, the Nats signed William Bergolla from the Giants as a minor-league FA. He's a 24 year-old 2B who hit .306/.363/.433 with 22 doubles, 7 homers and was 12 for 15 in SB's in 99 games last year in AAA. Other than the stats, I know nothing else about him but he could be given a shot if Guzman/Lopez/Belliard stumble out of the gate.

A "Fenway atmosphere"? You mean a bunch of drunk, front-running fans wearing pink hats who are there for face-time and don't pay attention to the game? No thanks.

Welcome aboard FFNatsfan11. VERY glad to have a true baseball fan here who's vocal. I cannot WAIT to talk about last night's diving snags, pitchers' lines and RBIs. Maybe we won't have to suffer so much talk about bobbleheads after a few more days.

One thing. Maybe go easy on the "you people" talk. There are lots and lots of people here like you.

Missed my point completely. But that's cool. Pretty sure a majority of them know what they're talking about. And you know how many lobbyist and business brown nosing that's going to take place in SE DC? I expect that, but hope to see the overall fan base grow to appreciate our team.

My only gripe (ok, my gripe of the day) is that we're paying "Fenway atmosphere" ticket prices for "Kauffman Stadium" production.

How about waiting for the team's first playoff appearance before you jack the ticket prices to NY and Boston levels, eh?

I was right there with you FFNatsfan11 until you wrote this:

get me a decent starter before the season(Fogg, Benson)

Really?? Fogg or Benson??

I hear you Nut, shouldn't have made that such a wide statement. Can't wait to see a new outfield produce and Wily Mo reach his power potential. Zimm get better and a year of a lot of walk off wins. Being a Red Sox fan as well in the absence of baseball in DC, I'd love to see the Nats get a huge following and new traditions of our own.

No, I didn't miss your point. It's just that you don't know what you're talking about and you don't know it. But that's cool.

For a new poster, you think maybe you should dial it back a bit and not tell all "us people" what we should be concerned about, and what we shouldn't be concerned about? This is a blog for goodness sakes. People post about lots of things. This thread that Barry started happens to be devoted to ticket sales and promotions. That doesn't mean that anyone who posts about bobbleheads thinks they are more important than our starting rotation. Get over yourself.

e, good find on Bergolla. As a Reds prospect he stole 52 bases for Potomac (yes, that Potomac) in 2003. He followed that up with 36 SBs in AA in 2004, but his SB numbers have been in the teens since then. He earned a callup to the Reds in 2005 and started 7 games or so, but he only hit .132 and got sent back down. He was a non-roster invitee for the Giants last year so evidently the Commies gave up on him for whatever reason. Still, his averages across the board a pretty good for a middle infielder, and evidently his defense was pretty good at one point, based on this:

"24-year-old infielder opens his Giants career as non-roster invitee after spending 1st 7 years of his career in Reds chain...middle infielder has spent each of last 2 seasons at triple- A level, while appearing in 17 games at big league level for Cincinnati in 2005...is .288 career minor league hitter...was on World Team roster in 2005 XM Satellite Radio All-Star Futures Game at Detroit's Comerica Park...was voted International League's best defensive second baseman in Baseball America's 2005 Best Tools survey...led all Reds minor leaguers in stolen bases 3 straight years from 2002-04...graduated from San Francisco de Asis High School (VZ) in 1999...single."

Plus, he's evidently single, so he's got that going for him as well.

Now THAT'S the kinda baseball talk I can appreciate...
_________________
Can't wait to see a new outfield produce and Wily Mo reach his power potential. Zimm get better and a year of a lot of walk off wins. Being a Red Sox fan as well in the absence of baseball in DC, I'd love to see the Nats get a huge following and new traditions of our own.

Posted by: FFNatsfan11 | February 12, 2008 04:52 PM

"And you know how many lobbyist and business brown nosing that's going to take place in SE DC? "

Not as much as they expected there would be when the city lured the team here with a stadium plan that emphasizes luxury suites and seats, like the Presidential ones that aren't selling now. There was hope then for lots of lobbyist and corporate schmoozing and deal-making in high-priced seats that could be written off as a business expense. Unfortunately, the Jack Abramoff aftermath has put the kibosh on that kind of thing, leaving the Nationals to try to salvage things with a luxury-themed ballpark that has to be sold to a Joe Sixpack fan base. Much of the dropoff in STH numbers from 2005 to 2006 can probably be attributed directly to this change that has occurred in the corporate lobbyist-government dynamic. It's no longer okay to wine and dine your lawmaker, making it difficult to justify buying high-priced season tickets just so you can let your employees use them as a perq now and then. If that's all you want to do corporately at the ballpark, it's cheaper just to buy a block of seats or a party suite for one or two games a year instead of 81-game $300-$400 seats.

Ah, I see... Well, if you deign to grace us with your presence at Nats Park this year to show us how "real fans" behave, please be sure to leave your pink Sox hat and RSN ID card at home. Thanks.
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Being a Red Sox fan as well in the absence of baseball in DC...

Posted by: FFNatsfan11 | February 12, 2008 04:52 PM

a "joe sixpack fanbase?"

even if you leave out the lobbyist entertainment tickets, i have a hard time justifying calling the fanbase in DC "joe sixpack." it's not like this is a blue collar town or anything.

but i'll definitely agree that the changes in 06 to how lobbying money is monitored changed a lot of things.

which also means i lost my angle to good tickets on the hill for a few games a year (skins tix, too). :(

The Nats Journal needs WAY more Dylan!

You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning

As for trade targets in Texas, I like Joaquin Arias on their roster for pure speed. Erick Aybar I think deserves a break if either Maicer Izturis (who should be our SS along with Juan Rivera in the OF) or Wood beat him out at SS (Wood may be a 3d baseman). We've had some discussion of Jed Lowrie, too, but "coverage is lacking" thinks he's been covered too much and you have to wear a pink hat to like him. There was one minor league FA from Oakland, Furmaniak I think, who I think signed back up with them but does not have a sure spot on their roster.

I too hope Felipe rediscovers his mojo this year, but I think we should recognize recognize that both him and Guzman are not part of the long term Nats line up. If Lopez plays at his peak, he walks next year as a young regular. Guzman is beginning to get up in age, no matter how young his eyes are. Best case I think is Lopez plays well enough to be dealt.

Who has a list of either BA's or BP's top 2d & SS prospects? Which have major league ETAs of 2008 or 2009 (no Engel Beltres, please).

"i have a hard time justifying calling the fanbase in DC "joe sixpack." it's not like this is a blue collar town or anything."

Okay, maybe Joe Sixpack isn't the best characterization of the fanbase. Working Joe might be better terminology. But political types (of which you sound like you might be one) often think that they're the only people around here, when in fact they're really in the minority. There's a vast middle class around this town, and that's where the fans are going to have to come from if that stadium is ever going to be full on a regular basis. The big money crowds in this town are the lobbyist circle (whose appetite for high-price baseball tickets has now been neutered) and the large number of foreign nationals who live here now. But those folks aren't into baseball. That leaves us everyday working Joes for the team to market those high-priced seats to, and it's a tough sell.

nah, just have friends who are political types (oddly enough, none from my short period of time working for a lobbyist 15 years ago). i'm just a lowly graphic designer, nobody gives me anything for free (other than my friends and, maybe a vendor occasionally (a set of box seats at RFK once)). as opposed to sitting 6th row on the aisle directly behind home plate, thanks to a lobbyist, once. man, that was a great seat.

and yeah, you're right on with what i was thinking. the vast middle class in DC metro area is who will be buying most of the tickets. especially STs and partial STs.

the question is how long will it be a hard sell. will "the plan" work? if it does, it's supposed to be a long-term plan, not a quick fix (a la what tampa tried to do with crappy past-their-prime veterans), so it should be a long-term draw. is that worth another year or two of mediocrity? i think that's what many here are arguing both sides of (along with "will the plan actually work?").

Bob L. Head, I don't get something about the below quote (even though I like what they say): Is BP saying that MOST managers DON'T think deeply about baseball, about their roster, and about every move they make? I mean, after all that, what's left? At the risk of asking a STOOPID question, aren't those three criteria the bulk of managers' job responsibilities?? And if, in fact, those qualities *are* as rare as BP seems to think they are, what does that say about the overall quality of managers in the game?

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"Found this on baseballprospectus.com:

"Acta is a competitive advantage for the Nationals, a rare manager who thinks deeply about baseball, about his roster, and about every move he makes. That advantage is currently wasted on a roster that has about 65 wins in it, so you can't expect miracles. The hope is that the talent base grows to match Acta's talents before the organization decides to "make a change" for the sake of doing so. He's already one of the five best managers in baseball."

Now we're talkin'-shortstops, now that's fun. Coco Crisp! Gimme a break. We have five outfielders better than he is. (Well potencially).
Bobbleheads-Hey, I got Rusty Staub. Those were the days.

maybe some managers don't think *as* deeply. or maybe "deeply" by itself isn't exactly the right wording and they mean he's able to come up with successful answers when he does. ;)

You know, the team doesn't pay for any of the giveaways. The sponsoring company does. For example, last year's opening day hats were bought and paid for by Tickets.Com. One of the Bobblehead days (can't remember which) was bought and paid for by PNC bank. So you can't call the team cheap for the number of items given away. In fact, I'll bet these companies pay the Nats for the right to give away an item with their company logo on it.

....and, in addition to starting pitching, I think the nats are weak in the middle infield. Outfield looks set. I like the corners with Dmitri on first. Second and short are weak. soriano playing second looks pretty dang sweet right now. Any more Wilkerson's in the bag?

"One of the Bobblehead days (can't remember which) was bought and paid for by PNC bank."

All four of them were, actually There's a little PNC logo on the base of George, Tom, Abe and Teddy. That's 80-100,000 bobbleheads PNC bought last year (I forget what the exact count was on each of them, but it was 20-25,000) and only 30,000 they're buying this year. swanni needs to get off the team's case and start trying to find out why PNC got so cheap compared with last year. But before that, he needs to find out where he left his clue.

Glad they didn't sign Livan - Nats can get 3-4 draftees for same $$.

Lerner's don't market well, but aren't cheap. A person with inside knowledge said they have spent over $75M in improvements to the stadium, out of their own pockets. Also, they signed all of their draft picks.

I think the limited bobbleheads and give-aways is because the ticket sales are way below projections and total attendance won't reach 2.4M this year - in a new stadium! If sales were better, Stan Kasten would not hesitate to announce figures. All the negative publicity over parking, etc. is taking its toll.

Not saying we should blindly support the Nats, but we who love the game should try to be ambassadors and evangelists for the great game of baseball -- in the beautiful Nation's Capital. I hope we're much more optimistic when not posting to NJ.

just a random thought but maybe PNC is having a tough year financially and doesn't expect to try and impress for the Stadium name. also, ticket sales may suffer from economic fears in general. sometimes the big picture is too obvious. what a tough year to open a new stadium.

and who's gonna compete to pony up millions of dollars for the stadium name rights? these guys have a lot on their plate. i say give them a break.

i've been looking for middle infielders. even last year's draft was thin. Atlanta appears to have more than most sprinkled throughout their system but their top prospects appear to be outfielders and pitchers. that sounds very familiar and might make it hard to make a trade. i think we are gonna need the stars to align to make a deal with them by the deadline.

just to acknowledge i know that PNC is pittsburgh's but i think my point should resonate with other potential suitors. could be a simple case of cutbacks.

Personally I hope that the Nationals don't sell their naming rights and instead just leave the stadium as Nationals Park. The Yankees have announced that they won't be selling the naming rights to their new stadium, but will leave it as Yankee Stadium. Would anyone dare call the Yankees cheap for doing that? (Anyone other than swanni, that is.) Neither should anyone call the Nationals cheap if they don't sell the naming rights to their stadium.

Lannan started 24 games last year spread over 4 leagues. If he can start 24 in the majors this year, it will be very helpful. In fact if Lannan, Chico, Bergmann, Paterson, Hill, and Redding start 24 games each then you only have to find another 18 games over the course of the year.

JJ, good point, although the apparent contradiction you point out in baseball prospectus's Acta piece probably says more about the lack of quality among baseball writers than among managers.

PNC had a bad year? No surprise, seeing how my portfolio took a fastball in the ear.

Natswriter, thanks but no thanks. I'm one of the folks they're supposed to be marketing to; when they pay me, I'll market for them.

Bobblehead, schmobblehead. If they were as collectible as all that, they could run off a few thousand, sell 'em on ebay, and buy a shortstop. An exploding Charlie Slowes Transformer -- BANG! ZOOM! -- NOW you're talkin'! I do like the cooler bag from year before last, though.

*******
Umm, Joe, have you looked in the mirror lately?

"What am I, chopped liver?
---
you'd think they would bring back pantyhose nights for old times' sake (and to honor Burt Hawkins!)
____
Posted by: Broadway Joe | February 12, 2008 04:14 PM

That should be, if they DO sell, right?
I mean, if they turn down the money, that's not cheap.
************
Neither should anyone call the Nationals cheap if they don't sell the naming rights to their stadium.
Posted by: Section 419+1 | February 12, 2008 08:45 PM

that should be "TEMPORARY like Achilles"

Natswriter, thanks but no thanks. I'm one of the folks they're supposed to be marketing to; when they pay me, I'll market for them.

Not what I meant - I mean introducing a new fan base to the GAME of baseball, not necessarily the Nats. If it pains you to take them to a Nats game, go to Harrisburg, Bowie, Frederick, Potomac, Hagerstown, heck, even Philly, anywhere but Baltimore!!

Baseball is a great game and I'd like to keep it here this time...I see it as a civic good and try to ignore the fact that our attendance might line the pockets of an already rich family...do it for DC, not the Lerners if you must. I believe the area will embrace the game if introduced to it - I'm spreading the word no matter the Post's coverage level or choices or the Nats' poor marketing...that's my choice, you are certainly free to make your own...

Couple advanced minor league (AAA or a bit of MLB time) guys that could fit the Nats middle infield prospect profile-

Ian Stewart in COL blocked by Atkins, Tulo & Nix/Giles - Stewart would be a converted 3B which is something the Rockies have reportedly considered

Ronny Cedeno in CHIC if hes not part of a package for Roberts...though he is rumored to be shipped to the stupid Orioles

Alicides Escobar in MIL is blocked by Hardy & Weeks

Emilio Bonifacio in ARI is blocked by Drew & Hudson (though Hudson is a 2009 free agent)

Joaquin Arias in TEX is blocked by Young & Kinsler

I'm a die hard Angels fan and dont really see much of a match between the Nats & Halos for either Wood, Aybar or Itzturis. The Angels havent shown a desire to trade for prospects unless they were in the middle of releasing/unloading a player (Jeff Weaver, Kevin Gregg, Alberto Callaspo). The Angels currently have 6 OF's & 2 or 3 1B/DH types plus a deep bullpen, both areas from which the Nats would probably try and trade.

With that said, I saw Wood's first MLB homer against Baltimore up in Camden this past year. I'm no scout, but he has awesome power for a middle infielder and I would like nothing more than watching him 82 games a year at Nats Ballpark.

i think baseball prospectus was saying that some managers go on instinct, especially the old guard. not a bad way to manage especially if you have alot of experience. but manny has a more analytical mind and uses it to his advantage. maybe an old manager would go straight to a lefty pitcher or pinch runner in the 7th inning of a close game, but manny would carefully weigh the consequences for the 8th 9th or 10th innings, and perhaps the next days game or next series.

OK, thanks Love, that makes sense.

Here's an NJ PLanet question (that may have already been asked and apologies if that is so):

Since the Nats aren't playing at home on July 4 this season but the Potomac Nats ARE, anybody up for a group day at the P-fitz?

No cooler bags this year?? Cheap [RF]s!

Jon wrote: "Maicer Izturis (who should be our SS along with Juan Rivera in the OF)"

Here's the thing about that. Would you rather have Izturis and Rivera right now, or Michael Burgess in the minors? If you don't trade them for Guillen, you don't get the compensation pick, and you don't get Burgess. For me, I'll take Burgess and the MI problem.

As for that, it's true that the Angels seem to have some good MI prospects, but there's just no way, I don't think that they're going to move an MI prospect for just Cordero, for instance. And they're not a real good candidate for a rejuvenated NJ (the 1b, not the blog) either. Anybody know what the Yankees have at MI behind Capn Jeter and Cano?

Juan-John, that sounds like a great suggestion. I'm in.

Nice post, FFNatsfan11!

It is about time someone said something like that to the "Nats fans" who seem to take pride in complaining about everything they possibly can and taking unnecessary lame shots at other teams, especially Baltimore (I hate Angelos, but am still an Orioles fan and a BASEBALL fan), yet have little to no understanding of how the game really works. They just show up late, leave early, think that all the "traditions" the Nationals have are their own even though they are almost all borrowed from other teams, and complain endlessly, as evidenced by most of the comments in this blog. I can't wait until the day when I'm at a Nationals game and can just strike up a GOOD BASEBALL CONVERSATION with the people sitting near me. I've done it in many different stadiums over the years, including AT&T Park, Yankee Stadium, Wrigley Field, and (gasp) Oriole Park at Camden Yards, but it rarely happened at RFK Stadium, if ever.

I'm also waiting to be ridden out of town for this post, the way some people did the same to FFNatsfan11 when he mentioned he is also a Boston fan and referred to the other fans as "you people," but can't say I should expect anything less from "Nationals fans." After all, they are known for complaining about everything and hating anyone who dares not agree with their "knowledge."

And NatsNut, I hope the rest of us "true fans" come out of the woodwork here. Based on who I see/hear at RFK and in places like this, I highly doubt most Nationals fans gave a damn about the Orioles or baseball in general prior to 2005.

I like it, Mr. Outbox!

---

An exploding Charlie Slowes Transformer -- BANG! ZOOM! -- NOW you're talkin'!

I'm in, too, Juan-John! Probably should carry this over to the new post if you haven't already done so.

---

Since the Nats aren't playing at home on July 4 this season but the Potomac Nats ARE, anybody up for a group day at the P-fitz?

As a "nomadic" fan (not a ST holder), I've had the opportunity to do that in various sections of RFK over the last three years, OTP, as well as on the Metro before and after games. Perhaps you just didn't happen to be sitting in the most loquacious of section(s)?

---

I can't wait until the day when I'm at a Nationals game and can just strike up a GOOD BASEBALL CONVERSATION with the people sitting near me. I've done it in many different stadiums over the years, including AT&T Park, Yankee Stadium, Wrigley Field, and (gasp) Oriole Park at Camden Yards, but it rarely happened at RFK Stadium, if ever.

In your humble opinions (1 per blogger please) who comprise the best double play combination this year (players currently in the organization)? Belliard/Guzman, Belliard/Lopez, Lopez/Guzman? What about Boone, Harris, Machowiak? Zimmerman won't play shortstop, but would he technically be the best there? I think the best likely combination is Belliard and Guzman because I think Guzman is a little a more accurate than Lopez. (Too bad we could not pry Khalil Greene away from the Padres. In the happy confines of Nats Park he would have hit 30 HR and significantly improved our infield range).

Natsfan1a,

I don't hold ST either, and I've sat in a variety of places over the past 3 years, from the Diamond Club to the top of the stadium. Maybe I'm unlucky, but considering my luck elsewhere, I somehow doubt it.

In case you haven't seen it, Steinberg pointed out the lameness of the Nats promotional schedule over at the Bog:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/02/dmitri_young_bobblehead_night.html

Also, speaking of promotion, this blog post about the marketing success of the Caps should act as a lesson to the Nats brass. Have you all seen the Caps ads all over the internet (and town)? Of course you have. Have you seen any Nats stuff?

http://www.onfrozenblog.com/2008/02/12/the-branding-of-a-winner-in-washington-the-good-hockey-market/

Note in the comments that Caps fans lament the Post coverage -- they're just like us!

More promotions and giveaways will be posted as the season gets underway. It happens all the time as deals are still being finalized. There could easily be a visor or hat night the Nationals plan on doing, but the sponsorship deal isn't final enough to announce it.

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