Taking a ball only once in every three at-bats??? Wow, nice analysis Barry. Sounds like Zimmerman needs a stint in the minors, maybe a few long bus rides and nights in cheap hotel rooms will help him regain his focus.

Because Zimmerman has the most potential of anybody on the team, its most noticeable, but no one on this team understands either patience or the strike zone. Its not about focus...its about a "see the ball, hit the ball mentality" that works for only a few players in the normal lineup.

It works better for, say, a pinch hitter who sees 2-3 pitches a game....

Taken BALL ONE, dude. Meaning the pitcher starts him off with a strike in 2 out of 3 at bats.

Repost....sorry...Bob L.....Interesting you bring up the Nats, Caps Comparison.

WTEM has a guest on last week discussing what was the turnaround point for the Caps this year. The guest, a former Cap and TV color guy said it was change in Coach. His take was the old coach had come to accept losing and had excuses for everyone. The new coach came in and said right away that the goal was winning games not learning the game.......sound familiar?

I like Zimmerman, but he is playing like all the others: can not wait to get out of here. He is the face of the Organization but only makes $400K? The cup of coffee guys, (i.e. LaPuca) are
making $5M but the this team can not sign Zimmerman to a long term deal. Zimmerman knows he needs to be a team player and the payout will come when he signs with Boston, NY, Chicago, Cali, ect... in three years.
Cheep
Cheep
Cheep

So you guys ready to jump on the O's bandwagon yet?

Better hurry because space is filling up quick.

Oh, good, Aaron Boone can play third.

"Lerner's are to blame for going against Stan's advice to bring in a new GM. This is likely the biggest error of all."

And how do you know that Stan advised the Lerners to bring in a new GM, JayB? Did Stan or one of the Lerners tell you this personally? Because I don't think it was ever reported anywhere else that this is what happened. Are you into the bottle early again today?

Is there any way to impose a rule that you have to prove that you have watched more than, say, 19 baseball games in your life before you can post here?

Anybody advocating firing Manny or sending Zimmerman to the minors is simply off the reservation.

Nope....well reported at the time....ask Barry

Zim's troubles are symptomatic of hitters who feel that they have to hit three-tun homers, even when no one's on base. He feels he has to swing even in unfavorable counts because of the lack of production throughout the rest of the lineup.

Carryover... not because I think it's terribly insightful but because it seems relevant.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting cutting bait on Zimmerman. I think he's one of the very few pieces of the puzzle that happen to be on the Major League roster at this time. However, when attempting to build a team from the ground up, you sometimes have to be willing to deal guys like him if you can get 2 or 3 longterm puzzle pieces in return.

I'm not advocating a Zimmerman trade because I think he's overrated, nor do I think his current slump has anything to do with his value to this franchise. I am suggesting however, that this team may be further behind in the rebuilding process than a lot of us thought. If you're truly hoping to rebuild through the draft and trades, you sometimes have to make moves that are painful in the short-term (e.g. trading away the face of the franchise) if you can get true value in the long-term.

If this is who this team is collectively, it's time to start taking a hard look at the individual pieces, their value, and how they can be used to improve the team for the longterm (be that by playing 3B here for the next 20 years or by being traded for 2 or 3 guys who can fill in other holes for a long time).

I am still holding out...

A look at his three-year splits show that April is by far his worst month. More interestingly to me, his contact rate is up. Regardless of his pitch selection, his preseason comments about not striking out as much seem to definitely affect his approach.

Still, I never thought we'd be here today when I woke up on April 1st.

JayB's out here with me.

Also, notice the complete lack of reference to an actual article in his response. Way to pass the buck.

"well reported" = "i made it up"

Wow, 2 insightful posts within a few hours (one backed up with some pretty deep numbers)....atta boy Barry.

I think it's obvious: as Zim goes, so goes the Nats.

This is true with Kearns too, but more so with Zimmerman. How many times has he come up with guys on (meaning top of the order guys are doing their job). If he gets a few hits here and there with Guz or Lastings on then maybe we're not so doom and gloom - focusing more on the slump aspect instead of a Coors Light commercial ("They were who we thought they were").

So, some of you guys chip in and get Zim a lady down there in ATL and bust him outta this slump. Hopefully, he goes up hacking and gets a few judys to fall in one day to get him back on track.

um, get him a lady?

crickets...

"Nope....well reported at the time....ask Barry"

Why should I ask Barry? Here's what he wrote in his story of July 1, 2006 that reported on Bowden being signed as the Nationals' permanent GM:

[quote]"This is Stan's decision," said Mark Lerner, the son of Ted Lerner and the team's general partner. "We support that, but it's his decision."

Bowden, 45, met Mark Lerner shortly after Bowden was named the Nationals' general manager in November 2004. The pair hit it off personally, and Bowden frequently joined Lerner family members when they visited RFK. And though Bowden said, "I was told upfront that Stan was going to make the decision," it's clear his relationship with Mark Lerner and others helped.[/quote]

So, JayB, it appears your reading comprehension skills are right up there with your spelling skills, huh? Why should anyone put any stock in anything you write, assuming we can get through your mangled syntax in the first place to figure out what you're trying to say?

MKevin, you're usually a levelheaded guy. But trading Zim? There is certainly nothing wrong with trading a star player for prospects as part of a rebuilding program. But you don't trade your 23-year old gold glove 3b -- there are plenty of "prospects" that are 23 and haven't sniffed the majors. That argument applies to the D-backs trading Randy Johnson for kids. No point in trading kids for kids.

Hey Folks - we got a homestand coming. So come on out and help get us toward our goal of a $60 million profit. You see I got this free stadium and I am repaying DC and all you chumps with the worst team in baseball this season and one of the cheapest. Cha-Ching$$.

Here's the thing that bugs me about RZ. He seems to deny when he is struggling. Maybe thats just what he projects, but dang...Last year when he was airmailing all those throws to 1b...he kept saying it was nothing, but it kept happeninn, and now we are seeing it again...Maybe if he acknowledged a problem, he would find a way to correct it...Same thing w the hitting slumps, He keeps saying he is having good atbats. Maybe if he admitted that he was not, he would be more open to fixing whatever the problem was.

He seems like a great guy and will probably be a great player...Just think he needs to figure out some stuff.

It is pretty clear to me why the Mets dumped Milledge. A great talent but perhaps the lousiest ballplayer I have seen since Alan Wiggins was the O's second baseman. Earl Weaver once said Wiggins was the 'worst ballplayer he had ever seen'.

Milledge seems to make an out on the basepaths half the time he gets on. He is a terrible center fielder. Manny says he will improve because he is young. How young? He is 23, made his big league debut 2 seasons ago and has 450 big league at bats. It's not like he never played in the minors either. He can clearly hit but he looks like he took up the game in spring training this season.

Doesn't look like the Mets will view this deal as another Kazmir debacle. The winner of a trade is always the team that gets the best player in the long run. If Milledge can't figure out how the game is played, and soon, he'll be gone from here before Schneider or Church leave New York!

I can't believe it, but Nook Logan was better that Lastings has been so far! What is the difference between striking out and getting a hit but getting picked off first before a pitch is thrown to the next batter?

We (I) thought Lastings would be an upgrade to the team but he clearly hasn't been, even with a very respectable average.

Not some of you guys, but you know what I mean. He needs something to relax him and bust him outta the slump.

I really liked Milledge batting 2nd. I think that change was a mistake although I do like mixing things up. Guesses for tonights lineup?

In a way I think that hitting the Opening Night walkoff HR may have been the worst thing to happen to Zimmerman this season. That single play increased the already large expectations of him and the Nats. I'd say that's a lot of pressure to perform for anyone...

...but would I trade the moment/experience for a .300 average and 3 more wins at this point? No way.

"Is there any way to impose a rule that you have to prove that you have watched more than, say, 19 baseball games in your life before you can post here?

Anybody advocating firing Manny or sending Zimmerman to the minors is simply off the reservation."

Posted by: Bob L. Head | April 21, 2008 12:31 PM

___________________________________________

I move that this is the early leader for the "post of the day."

Bob L.,

Funny stuff and very true. Talk about jumping to conclusions after 19 games. Holy Crap.

Zim needs to bat fifth. No higher right now. Not for a long time. His lack of situational hitting really hurts.

"Anybody advocating firing Manny or sending Zimmerman to the minors is simply off the reservation."

The same could be said of anyone comparing the Caps situation to the Nats.

C'mon guys hop on the O's bandwagon. We just took 2 of 3 from the hated Yankees.

The future is bright.

It's who they are. Whoever thought they were approaching 500 was crazy. Barry needs to remind himself why he predicted what he did for 2007, and how many of the lucky breaks we got in 07 predictably have not been repeated.

Bowden really needs to stay out of the on field operations.

"We (I) thought Lastings would be an upgrade to the team but he clearly hasn't been, even with a very respectable average."

Milledge, upgrade at the plate, downgrade in center. Despite all that "breaking the wrong way" nonsense, Nook Logan was a superior center fielder (shhh, just go look up the numbers, all you're pointing out is that he could have been superiorer), but he sucked at the plate. Milledge looks like he might be a superior batter, but he sucks in the field. With practice, he might become a serviceable center fielder.

Bob, I think the "trade Zimm" point was that if the price is right, anyone should be traded. I think you, me, and MKevin all agree that would be a hefty price. He cites three sure-fire prospects.

I've been making the case that no FA signing from last year could have made us any better than a couple wins better than terrible. However, there was one FA out there that could have actually moved us towards .500.

That was ARod. That acquisition would have had an impact. All this Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernandez talk is silly, so if you want to bash Kasten for not acquiring someone who would have actually had an impact on this team now, that's your only real case against him.

C'mon guys hop on the O's bandwagon. We just took 2 of 3 from the hated Yankees.

The future is bright.

Posted by: O's Exec | April 21, 2008 1:10 PM

==========================

Good job, bro. But just make sure you keep that team in the #2 spot, for my sake :)

Anyone say "Bring on the Big Hurt"?

Pretty much anyone could come in right now and improve our obp.

PS. Austin Kearns is miserable. Just miserable.

Good job, bro. But just make sure you keep that team in the #2 spot, for my sake :)

Posted by: Go Sawx (and Nats) | April 21, 2008 1:22 PM

Too bad Red Sox Nation has become more annoying than Yankee fans. The Red Sox actually have 2 national tv stations (NESN and ESPN) and if Chris Berman could he'd make sweet man love to Big Papi, Tom Brady, and everything else New England related.

Sorry pal, the Sox will get their comeuppance soon enough.

Is it really a slump if you do it every April?

MLB.com dated April 20, 2007:

Sixteen games into the season, the Nationals' No. 3 hitter is batting .209 with zero home runs and just three RBIs.

Yet, if anybody on the Nationals is concerned about Zimmerman's start, it is difficult to discern. They could be taking their cue from Zimmerman himself, who appears absolutely unfazed.

"I feel fine," he said before the Nationals opened a three-game series against the Marlins on Friday at Dolphin Stadium. "It'd be different if I was going up there and striking out, but I feel I've been hitting the ball pretty good."

------

Sound familiar?

------------

As for 2006...On April 20, 2006, Zimmerman was hitting .226 with a home run and 11 RBIs

From the coverage is lacking file, no Post columnist has chimed in on the Nats so far for the month of April. Boswell wrote a series of columns about the new ballpark, the last on 3/31, but nothing about the team since late in spring training.

Anyone say "Bring on the Big Hurt"?

Pretty much anyone could come in right now and improve our obp.

PS. Austin Kearns is miserable. Just miserable.

Posted by: Nats=class,class,class | April 21, 2008 1:26 PM
_________________________________________

Please please please send me whatever strain of potent marijuana you're smoking that makes you think that's even an option. At this point in Thomas' career he's a DH. He can't even play 1B anymore. So where exactly would he play if he was on the Nats?

Again please send me some of that diggity-dank pot you've got.

506, good post. How about on the basepaths? When will Charlie Slowes use the "What was he thinking, where was he going. . ." line on Milledge? Did anyone think when that trade was made that we would be comparing Milledge to Nook? That was supposed to be a HUGE upgrade! Not yet, anyway.

I expect any day now we will see Lastings steal second with the ball thrown into center field, then go to third and keep on running into an out at the plate.

Yeah, someone needs to take away the green light from Thrilledge. We don't want that kind of thriller.

superiorer?

Great word, 506! ;)

Did not think I would say it this year, but the Nats are almost "unwatchable". My 11 year old son's Little League team honestly plays more fundamental baseball these days. Several kids could outhit Mackowiak, Willie Harris and Wily Mo.

From The Kids Are Alright Department:

Keep an eye on this blog, anyone who doesn't. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/

Good things are in the future, we just need to not loose track of that.

O's Exec. I am not sure why you are so concerned with the Nationals. Route 95N will take you straight up to Baltimore/Dundalk so you can watch your pretty little orange birds, who sooner rather than later, will sink to where they belong.

As for FT, it couldn't hurt actually having a decent pinch hitter in late inning situations, I mean we currently use Mac and Harris and they are what I like to call "Auto-Outs". Plus I'd love to see that beautiful jersey on such a large human being.

GO NATS! Bring on the hurt.

ah, yes, another "bring in frank thomas" post.

first, where will you play him? over NJ (who's a far better hitter and OBP guy than thomas is now)? save him for the DH slot in interleague play? downgrade compared to WMP's defense and put him in LF? the guy's played 4 games in the field in 4 years (last time he played 1B was 2004).

and if you're comparing him to this season's nats, you should use his stats from this season:

.167 avg .306 obp .333 slg.

wow. yeah, thats' what we need, a guy who can't play defense and can't hit any more. oh, and who'll whine about playing time.

if you want to make a suggestion for improvements, you should at least take a moment to find out whether they're good enough to improve.

look for yourself.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomafr04.shtml

These guys are not that bad, a year a go we had the same record (about) but we weren't in most of those games, other than a few gems by the opposing pitcher we've been very close in every game.

What bothers me is the way a different player fails to come through each night. Rivera last night, Ayala Colome the other. The starting pitching has looked very good the last week, but the bullpen (collectively) have failed to come through, were hitting well enough to win, but just bad enough to lose.

Clutch hitting and clutch pitching have been hard to come by, is that luck, talent or something else?

I remember back in June of '07 when we had the opposite streak going and some of the ways we won were just silly - but it all averaged out. Ditto that last year (though the talent level after May 15 was much better than on April 1 and that won't be the case this year).

The next 4 daysa are going to be murder, if we win 1 game it's moral victory, but I think the bats are coming to life, the starting pitching we thought was our achillies heal looks pretty darn good and the bullpen has been fair the most part, but all three need to be able to bear down and get that hit or pitch when it really matters. they won't be able to do that regularly, they are soooo young - but where there is talent there will be success, we just need to fight like hell now and it will turn around.

Hopefully when they do we won't be too far gone in the standings for it to matter.

First it's high schoolers beating the brains out of outside curve balls, now little leaguers! Get those kids signed!

MKevin, you're usually a levelheaded guy. But trading Zim?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trust me I hate the idea. I think you'd have to get one of those "only an idiot would pass up on this opportunity" kind of deals to do it. But, if you think about improving your team via trades you have to have something of value to trade. Looking at this team now, who else do you see that would get you a legit middle infield prospect, or a legit power hitting OF prospect?

This collective slump has me in a bad state of mind no doubt, but I'm seeing so many more holes that need filling that I just didn't see during Spring Training.

Bob, I think the "trade Zimm" point was that if the price is right, anyone should be traded. I think you, me, and MKevin all agree that would be a hefty price. He cites three sure-fire prospects.

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | April 21, 2008 1:20 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~

Precisely.

Proposed Lineup for tonight:

Lopez SS
Milledge CF
Johnson 1B
Boone 3B
Belliard 2B
Mackowiack RF
Nieves C
Harris LF
Chico P

Maxwell has a .934 OPS in AA Harrisburg. Why is he in AA Harrisburg? Is our Willie Harris that good? BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not ready to proclaim Lastings Milledge as a great talent, but those who are claiming he's a lousy ball player are way off base. If he's still making these mistakes at age 25 then yeah he might be hopeless, but so far all I see is that he would have benefited from another year in the minors. The first error of the year was inexcusable, but yesterday's sun ball was a matter of vision. The baserunning blunders have been too frequent. But Schneider throwing him out at 3rd last week was a good play on Schneider. The failures to understand when to run are a matter of coaching and learning. (Coaching he should have had in the minors). I don't know yet whether he is slow to learn or simply uneducated.

(Speaking of uneducated, I do get tired of reading that Lo Duca is a poor return on trading Schnieder and Church. Lo Duca's signing was completely separate. If you want to argue that Milledge was a poor trade for Schnieder/Church you can make that argument, but team ERA was actually worse this time last year. Church has started out well, but he will slump shortly. If he has to play more htan 5 days a week, he will slump by mid-May).

Just to link these two good posts as way of an answer. They both express feelings I have:

-----

Maxwell has a .934 OPS in AA Harrisburg. Why is he in AA Harrisburg? Is our Willie Harris that good? BLAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: The BigC from DC | April 21, 2008 1:59 PM

-----

I am not ready to proclaim Lastings Milledge as a great talent, but those who are claiming he's a lousy ball player are way off base. If he's still making these mistakes at age 25 then yeah he might be hopeless, but so far all I see is that he would have benefited from another year in the minors...

Posted by: NatBisquit | April 21, 2008 2:01 PM

The thing that bothers me is the laissez faire attitude to the poor showing. Slumping ballplayers are fragile creatures, and I certainly wouldn't want somebody driving Zim deeper into it by putting it all on his shoulders, but when your job is to hit the ball, and you're not hitting the ball, "I feel fine" is not an acceptable response. I don't care how the guy feels, I want him to do what they're paying him for. This is why I actually liked the attitude on display by Lo Duca earlier in the slump. He couldn't hit the ball either, but when he cost his team a game, he was upset about it. So far, it seems a consistent refrain that Zimmerman isn't that put out. Now, this could all be spin, and it's hard to tell what's really happening. But if you aren't doing your job, shrugging your shoulders and assuming things will happen differently tomorrow isn't going to cut it.

"This is why I actually liked the attitude on display by Lo Duca earlier in the slump. He couldn't hit the ball either, but when he cost his team a game, he was upset about it"

True, but he also still didn't hit the ball afterwards.

so... your logical presumption is that zimmerman isn't upset about his slump or not being able to hit in the clutch, then, right?

Thanks for your comments natsfan1a!

so... your logical presumption is that zimmerman isn't upset about his slump or not being able to hit in the clutch, then, right?

Posted by: 231 | April 21, 2008 2:21 PM

-----

True. He was drinking vodka straight out of the bottle in Arlandria a couple weekends ago and everyone know vodka is a happy drink. What's more, he brought the bottle to his mouth in a circuitous route, showing he has no instincts. And it was Aristocrat, because he doesn't have a contract.

Some guys are just more stoic, or more phlegmatic. We can't know what's in Zimmerman's head. They guy's been successful in baseball all his life, and has a reputation for being a fairly smart player. Hearing/reading his interviews, he seems very much like the type who doesn't let the public in, and why should he? He's paid to play ball, not do group therapy on the news. So if he's asked "How are you?" and he says "Fine, thanks, and you?" that's not surprising.

That said, his swing *is* too long.

Barry's analysis is probably more detailed than anything that Lenny Harris has done in helping Zimmerman. Barry, it is interesting to see what Acta had to say to you about Zimmerman being too willing to swing at any strike, but is that what he and Harris are saying to and coaching Ryan on? Sure, players sometimes forget their coaching from at bat to at bat, but Zimmerman's lack of discipline has been pretty much uninterrupted since the beginning of the season.

Zimm has been chasing pitches pretty much all season. And it's not just when he's behind in the count--in one of the games against the Mets, he was up 2-0 against Wagner, and popped out to right on a pitch that was *at least* 6 inches off the plate. Up 2-0 against a guy like Wagner, you've *got to* pick your spot and sit on it. He's not doing that. So in my view with a streak of undisciplined hitting as long as this, the options are (a) he's not seeing the ball well and who knows why? (b) he is ignoring his coaching and is otherwise lost at the plate, or (c) he is not getting the coaching and is otherwise lost at the plate.

Slumps happen. But a prolonged lack of discipline in staying away from bad pitches shouldn't happen, and it is really puzzling.

As to Barry's other comment on Bowden checking out Nick's at-bat on video: Barry, does Bowden *live* in the clubhouse? I was always taught that GMs should stay out of the clubhouse except when they're popping the champagne corks, or maybe for a rare meeting with a player. Is there any GM in baseball who interferes with the manager and coaching staff as much as Bowden does?

"That said, his swing *is* too long."

yes, it is. this is where the hitting coach comes into play. any word on changing techniques Barry?

Dear 506,
Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

I'm having a sense of deja vu from last April. Natsfan1a, you're our super archivist, did we talk about Zimm's inabilit to lay off bad pitches last April?

Centerfielders are born not made.

I am sticking with Milledge and Zimmerman long-term. It will take many months to dissuade me against Milledge, and it would take more than a bad year to get me off the Zimmerman bandwagon.

Manny will take the green light from Milledge if he doesn't improve his percentage. As for that play at the plate a week ago, Milledge was still safe, and Tolman sent him.

OK, I get it, MKevin and 506. Theoretically, every man has his price. But the Twins only got two top prospects for Santana (Gomez and Humber), and Humber, at 25 and still recovering from Tommy John surgery, is now projected as a back-of-the-rotation guy at best. Would we trade Zim for a top outfield prospect, a #4 starter and two other minor leaguers? I say no.

to be fair, there's a difference between a guy you have under control for 4 years at reasonable prices as opposed to a guy who's about to become a FA after one season and who you know won't resign with you...

True. He was drinking vodka straight out of the bottle in Arlandria a couple weekends ago and everyone know vodka is a happy drink. What's more, he brought the bottle to his mouth in a circuitous route, showing he has no instincts. And it was Aristocrat, because he doesn't have a contract.

---------------------

On the bright side, at least he hasn't had to resort to Bowman's yet...

"Would we trade Zim for a top outfield prospect, a #4 starter and two other minor leaguers? "

Never. Would we for Hanley Ramirez, Joba Chamberlain, and Brian McCann?

Yes.

There's a theoretical trade out there for Zimmerman, but it's not likely to come up.

PB, it's still early. Boswell has been busy covering the Masters and the Caps. He'll have all of May and June (except for at least a week at Torrey Pines) to write about the Nats. We can "look forward to" perhaps a column every week to ten days, before Boz goes on his long summer vacation and then starts covering the Skins at training camp.
* * * *
From the coverage is lacking file, no Post columnist has chimed in on the Nats so far for the month of April. Boswell wrote a series of columns about the new ballpark, the last on 3/31, but nothing about the team since late in spring training.

Posted by: PB | April 21, 2008 1:27 PM

Good point, 231, although there is also a difference between being the best pitcher in the league in his prime and being a 23-year old 3b with two decent seasons under his belt, all the upside in the world but as yet unproven.

I've had enough Zimmerman trade talk, it's making me sick. For the last two weeks the best part of the games has been listening to Charlie's call of Zim's opening day walkoff during the pregame. No slump or losing streak can ever take that away from us, or from him.

If you stick with your team through the bad times, it makes the good ones all the more sweeter.

we're not on opposite sides on any of that, bobL. the problem with analyzing a trade of zimmerman is that there isn't a lot of precedent.

and it would likely be foolish, anyway, for at least one side of the trade.

oh, and as far as long-term options at SS, some of you might find this comment from ken rosenthal interesting (i think it's paraphrased from a video):

Rosenthal says Rafael Furcal and the Dodgers are open to discussing an extension during the season. Furcal makes $13MM this year and would be a hot commodity on the free agent market. If the Dodgers re-sign him, shortstop Chin-Lung Hu becomes valuable trade bait.

If you stick with your team through the bad times, it makes the good ones all the more sweeter.

Posted by: Bob L. Head | April 21, 2008 3:00 PM

---------------------------------------------

Hear, hear.

as for Chin-Lung Hu becoming available: if he does, the Dodgers were interested in both Belliard and Harris during spring training - I wonder if one or both of them could net us Hu...

I'll take the blame for starting the "trade Zimm" talk but with the caveat that it wasn't the intended "take away" from my original post. My point, poorly made as it was, was that this team has some serious holes to fill, and that filling those holes may require some painful moves. I'm stopping short (and only "just-so") of advocating the "blow-it-all-up" approach to finding the missing pieces, but wow... I'm starting to see the wisdom behind Barry's projected 2011 lineup:

Posted from Barry's 4/16 chat:

Capitol Hill, DC: Barry,

All things remaining equal, what do you forsee being the Nats' lineup in 3 years? 5 years?

Barry Svrluga: All things remaining equal? Not sure what that means. But I'll try to answer at least the three-year part, which would mean the 2011 season.

C -- Jesus Flores

1B -- Chris Marrero

2B -- Person Not in Organization

SS -- Person Not in Organization

3B -- Ryan Zimmerman

LF -- Michael Burgess

CF -- Lastings Milledge (though he could move to a corner spot)

RF -- Person Not in Organization

SP -- Ross Detwiler

SP -- Collin Balester

SP -- 3 Guys Not in Organization

Closer -- Person Not in Organization

Hu's on first ...

Regarding Milledge and the minors, that's what the Mets said when he was 21, 'he just needs more time in the minors, wait until he is 23'! He says he just needs a chance to play. . . Regarding Milledge and going home the other night, did Tolman say he sent him? I didn't see that he said that anywhere but may have missed it.

The sun certainly blinded him yesterday, yet he sure acted like it was the first sunny day he had ever seen. I'll concede that one to him. I saw him earlier this year get hit in the head by the laziest fly ball you ever want to see hit to him right in his tracks. Nice effort on the double against the Braves, too. McCann, wasn't it? But, he said that will never happen again! Also, he is 2-4 on steals this year and 6-12 lifetime. Yesterday was not his first time picked off this year.

I'll give a kid that young with those tools more time. I just don't see ANY signs that he has any baseball sense. After all, 90 percent of the game is half mental. He looks like he could be 55 percent of a player to me. Plus, what Willie Mays said above.

Bob L: No, I think he is at shortstop.

Not that I agree with Dick, but did anyone else hear Charlie and Dave's hilarious back and forth about the new phrase "double, up the middle"?

I don't think this team is this bad. They need to shake things up somehow - players only meeting, line-up change, benching someone (although they have been doing the latter two). Last year they started off pretty shaky too - I remember lots of errors. In a past post, or on the chat, or in a notebook there was a Lenny Harris quote saying the players take a lot of batting practice - maybe its TOO MUCH batting practice. Maybe some more field practice is in order. Ugh! The Nats need to get their heads into the game.

As I said, we don't really know what's in Zimmerman's head. But the press keeps asking him about it, and he keeps shrugging it off. From the outside looking in, it sounds a lot like apathy. That doesn't mean it is apathy, but it's still frustrating. I don't think it's unreasonable that the fans want a little assurance that the slumping players take this seriously. Stoicism in the face of adversity is admirable, and much more successful than panic, absolutely. But so far what I'm seeing looks more like unconcern.

I don't give a darn

-----

Bob L: No, I think he is at shortstop.

Posted by: Dick | April 21, 2008 3:24 PM

There were discussions about his slumping last April but I don't recall specifics of what was said and when, 506. The link below might be a good place to start if you wanted to do some archive diving: ;-)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2007/04/through_one_month_almost_what.html

---

I'm having a sense of deja vu from last April. Natsfan1a, you're our super archivist, did we talk about Zimm's inabilit to lay off bad pitches last April?

For people who can spell several of you folks understand very little about how politics off the office work. Barry if you can please weigh in on how Jimbo got to keep his Job. These people are having trouble reading between the lines in your very transparent write up from when Stan "picked Jimbo" for GM.

I am not saying Fire Manny Acta now but I am saying much of the ugly play and poor fundamentals falls on him. His job was to use spring training to get his team ready to play on March 31 not sometime later when they learn the game. Do you see a problem holding him accountable for the base running and missed cut off men? How about the coaching staff he picks? If you all do not see a problem with the hitters' approaches and can not trace that back to Lenny Harris then you are probably the ones who need play some ball not rack up hours of watching it.

I hate to toot my own torn, but Hu is legit., and I've been saying so all winter (you can check the archives, if you have the time & patience). From what I've read, the guy is slick in the field and has amazing gap-to-gap power...he doesn't quite have Milledge batspeed but it ain't shabby.

Get's us a foot in the door of that asian market too - so the next time a Fukudome or Dice-K comes along, the curly W is not such a foreign object.

Is it just me, or is Jim Bowden just a weeee bit too involved in the on-the-field stuff, like congratulating batters for taking certain pitches?!?

Bowden couldn't trade Zimmerman if he wanted to (not that he does or ever will). Jimbo wanted 2 top prospects (3 total) for 2 months of Alfonso and he wanted 2 top prospects for Chad last year. The question is not what you would want in return for Zimm, it's what Bowden would want, and knowing his track record, it'd cost someone half of their flipping farm system. So there's no need to worry or even speculate. That's more futile than going back and lamenting the Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore trade.

Hitters slump and some are slow starters, and obviously, by reading the posts here, a lot of us have nothing better to do.

I'm missing something... not the first time... won't be the last.

Who is this "Hu" we're speaking of?

Again... not advocating trading Zimm. I'm simply saying there lots of holes to fill and NOBODY should be left "off the table" when it comes to trade talk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

owden couldn't trade Zimmerman if he wanted to (not that he does or ever will). Jimbo wanted 2 top prospects (3 total) for 2 months of Alfonso and he wanted 2 top prospects for Chad last year. The question is not what you would want in return for Zimm, it's what Bowden would want, and knowing his track record, it'd cost someone half of their flipping farm system. So there's no need to worry or even speculate. That's more futile than going back and lamenting the Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore trade.

Hitters slump and some are slow starters, and obviously, by reading the posts here, a lot of us have nothing better to do.

Posted by: Reality fellas | April 21, 2008 4:01 PM

Young back-up shortstop for the Dodgers.

Natsfan1a, that link is hilarious! Most of the comments there would fit in perfectly here. We're the same people having the same arguments.

And there is this observation from our very own Geezer:

"Seems like Zim is working too hard on working the counts, hitting the other way. He's not turning on pitches like he used to."

That's from May 1, 2007 folks!

The more things change ...

I think our most tradable player is Guzman, he's hitting the ball, actually getting walks and playing his normal so-so defense. Most importantly he is a FA (and likey a type B FA) so trading him before the deadline is likely our best return on him.

If he keeps this up through May what kind of value should we ask/expect in return? I see the Angels and Cardinals as two teams likely in contentionand needing to upgrade their offense from SS.

Also on the block with his fast start is Tim Redding, the league is starved for decent starters and his return in trade and opening up a spot in our rotation for O'Connor or Balester makes this a win-win for the Nats (of course he also has 3 of our 5 wins so take that for what it's worth). I don't see us trading NJ till he goes a full season to maximize his value (plus - all due respect to DY - we have no ready replacemnt for him at 1B till Marrero is ready). I don't see Cordero going anywhere, but one of Rauch/Rivera/Ayala might go if the right offer comes along and we have Schroder still waiting in AAA only because he still has options. Belliard might also have value left despite his slow start and he might do a lot better if given the chance to hit farther up in the line-up.

I am in no way throwing in the towle or proposing "blowing up" the team, but we have parts that are of more value to others than they are to us (at least in the long term) and if we make 1-2 of these moves we can get younger on the major league level and strengthen our farm system at the same time.

The problem with this team is cheap ownership. But you can't fire the owners so the next best thing is to fire Bowden.

Jimbo has failed:

* to put a competitive team on the field;
* to pull the trigger on obvious trades (Soriano, etc.);
* to sign a pitcher who can pitch more than 5-6 innings;
* to sign a catcher who can hit and throw;
* to do his homework so he would know our CF can't play CF;
* to do his homework so he would know our RF's stats were inflated by the small park in Cincy.

More failures: Giving Felipe Lopez $4.9 million; not trading Cordero during the off-season; giving up a young pitching prospect for a player who spends more time in court than on the field...

And so on and so on.

He's also constantly interfering with the team by acting as "co-manager."

Somebody has to accept responsibility for this mess -- and it's Jimbo.

From Baseball America:

"Hu has persevered and developed into a valuable prospect. After a poor offensive season in 2006, he came to camp 10 pounds heavier and produced the best numbers of his career. He was the MVP of the Futures Game, the Dodgers' minor league hitter of the year and a September callup. A line-drive hitter with good barrel awareness, Hu cleaned up mechanical flaws in his swing and improved his plate coverage and ability to make hard contact. He has a tendency to step in the bucket with his front foot, but when he remains closed he hits the top half of the ball consistently and uses all fields. He likes fastballs early in counts, but shows good pitch recognition and plate discipline. His well-above-average defensive package -- with the arm strength, footwork and hands of a Gold Glover -- always will be his best asset. He has slightly above-average speed and runs the bases well. He's a hard worker with a strong makeup. Hu had a career .397 slugging percentage entering 2007, and even with the improvements, his power grades as below-average. Avoiding bad habits with his swing will be vital to his ability to produce against more advanced pitchers."

I also like Ivan DeJesus Jr., another shortstop prospect in the Dodgers' system. In short (so to speak), they're a good potential trade partner for us.

"My job was to get hit by pitches and I did it gladly.... JayB"

This explains a lot.

Posted by: | April 20, 2008 9:18 AM

Though you all would like that one, git punked to a future 300 game winner once and and scored the go ahead run once....just win bady...JayB"

Either he took a good few of those HBPs to the head, or he's hitting the sauce way too early on a Sunday morning. Just spell, baby.

Posted by: | April 20, 2008 10:44 AM

estuartj, wow, analytic post of the day. Good summary.

swanni, it seems arbitrary. Your argument seems to boil down to "Lerners are at fault, but they can't be fired, so scapegoat JimBo." Am I misreading?

You also fail (swanni) to answer the big question with JimBo:

"Has he gotten us closer to being perennial contenders?"

I think the answer is yes, looking at the minors, though you can argue the scouting crew was more important in that regard.

No, the Lerners are principally at fault, but Jimbo has been a disaster.

I think we need a GM who's not afraid to tell the owners what they need to hear. Jimbo is a kiss-up, which is how he's kept his job during this debacle.

If Jimbo was behind the Mike Rizzo hiring, I would agree. But I doubt he was because Rizzo is a threat to his position.

Section 506 said 'I don't give a darn'. Why?

I don't know, Mike Rizzo doesn't look like he's got good baseball instincts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rizzo

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml

I think they should fire Jimbo and hire the 3 headed-monster of JayB, Swanni, and the Lerner's ARE Cheap as GM. If they fail, or more like when the fail, we won't have to read their bloviating anymore.

Come on man... Surely if he can remix "It's Raining Men... The Sequel" he can rebuild the Nats.

~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know, Mike Rizzo doesn't look like he's got good baseball instincts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rizzo

Posted by: Section 506 (Before moving) | April 21, 2008 4:53 PM

They bumped Yurendell Eithel de Caster from AA to AAA. They may give him a shot for the Nats, if he continues to tear it up like he has so far in the minors and if we continue to suck.

This is my prediction.

505/203....do you really think Jimbo is doing a good job or do you just enjoy pretending to know something about baseball? Can I conclude that you somehow think Pena and Milledge will learn to be good outfielders and that Lenny Harris could pinch hit so he must be a good hitting coach. Are you one of those folks who thinks a 23 year olds still have to learn how to run the bases? If so the Nats could you another 25,000 of you to fill up the park this summer.

MKevin,

mike rizzo is mostly responsible for scouting, drafting and signing most of that home-grown young talent on the first-place arizona diamondbacks. they developed so much of their own talent, they could trade a carload of it to oakland for dan haren. the future of this team is going to be based on how well it scouts, drafts. signs and develops young talent. i have more faith in rizzo's acumen and ability than i do in leatherpants boy, who always wants to make the splashy move. the less of jimbow we see and hear, the better.

Well, I think that no one on this board should be allowed to criticize the Lerners, Kasten or Bowden at all unless they have personally run the baseball operations of a major league baseball team and have at least taken that team to the World Series. I also think that no one on this board should be allowed to comment on any player's performance unless that person can first prove that they have played major league baseball before and have played in the All-Star game.

I mean, if you can't prove that you can do it better yourself, why should you be allowed to criticize others? And on a *blog* of all places?!? The notion of such discourse is just absurd! Barry, please turn out the lights for all of us, thanks!
_____________________
I think they should fire Jimbo and hire the 3 headed-monster of JayB, Swanni, and the Lerner's ARE Cheap as GM. If they fail, or more like when the fail, we won't have to read their bloviating anymore.

Posted by: Section 505/203 | April 21, 2008 4:57 PM

Will the real Mike Rizzo please stand up?
I'm sure that 506 knew (as I did) who the Nats Mike Rizzo was before posting the "DJ/mixer/producer" profile from Wiki. I was merely piggybacking off his joke.

505/203....do you really think Jimbo is doing a good job or do you just enjoy pretending to know something about baseball? Can I conclude that you somehow think Pena and Milledge will learn to be good outfielders and that Lenny Harris could pinch hit so he must be a good hitting coach. Are you one of those folks who thinks a 23 year olds still have to learn how to run the bases? If so the Nats could you another 25,000 of you to fill up the park this summer.

Posted by: JayB | April 21, 2008 5:06 PM

-----

I'll be number 2, 203!

even knowing what we know now, i would still make the milledge for church and schneider trade.
milledge has huge upside, way higher than church. and schneider wont even be around in a couple of years. last year church and schnieder were 2 holes in the lineup and i guarantee you by the end of june, milledge will have a higher average than either of those guys.

Will the real Mike Rizzo please stand up?
I'm sure that 506 knew (as I did) who the Nats Mike Rizzo was before posting the "DJ/mixer/producer" profile from Wiki. I was merely piggybacking off his joke.

Posted by: MKevin | April 21, 2008 5:15 PM

-----

I'm sorry, MKevin, but you're incorrect. This IS the Nats' Mike Rizzo, which should be painfully obvious as there is no "disambiguation" page on Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

5-14 is a more convincing set of numbers than (section) 505/203.

5-14! 14 out of 16!

btw both loduca and estrada suck. and how bout moeller, the yanks starting catcher. he was cut by the nats in spring training.
cut by the nats--thats not good, and without a team in the spring gets signed to the yanks minor league team and is now their starting catcher. guy musta been born under a good sign.
id rather have him than either of the losers on our team. can any1 on the nats judge talent?

maybe zim should get a night off sometimes. ya think?

Swanni, LAC and JayB,

I personally have no problem with some criticism, in fact, I welcome it. But, you 3 just never let up. It's constant, always negative, never positive. 5-14 stinks on ice, believe me but, damn.

Yeah, because we all know that blogs are good places to anonymously flame people over subjects we know little or nothing about.

dk -- I believe that Moeller wanted out as he wasn't going to get much playing time in DC or in Columbus. The Nats granted his request early in ST so that he still had time to sign with another club.

section 503 -- I have been positive about many things -- I have stated that Milledge will be an All-Star one day (but not in CF); that Zim will bounce back; that Guzman should stay because he's become an offensive force; and even that LoDuca will hit eventually.

But let's face it -- the negative aspects of this team cries out for criticism and, hopefully, solutions.

Oh, boy, more wisdom from JayB! Just remember the following wisdom, also from JayB:

"My job was to get hit by pitches and I did it gladly.... JayB"

This explains a lot.

Posted by: | April 20, 2008 9:18 AM

Though you all would like that one, git punked to a future 300 game winner once and and scored the go ahead run once....just win bady...JayB"

Either he took a good few of those HBPs to the head, or he's hitting the sauce way too early on a Sunday morning. Just spell, baby.

Posted by: | April 20, 2008 10:44 AM

Posted by: | April 21, 2008 4:32 PM

And, to be fair, JayB has enumerated the positive qualities of this team before as well.

Swanni, JayB, and LAC, are of the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" mode of thinking. They hope to squeak enough that things are fixed. Think of it as a Frank Robinson v. Manny Acta approach to the team.

I imagine they were happier in Frank times. In Acta times, they're bound to disagree with the governing philosophy, thus the need to be squeaky in hopes that someone will read and change course towards what they think is right.

ya know, you people are starting to give me a headache.

Just shut up and buy a season ticket behind home plate, and I'll do whatever you want.

Nice analysis, Barry. Thank you. I think that the scout hit the nail on the head. There has never been much evidence that Zimm will be a perennial all-star but we risk losing him completely this year if he can't turn it around. A few days ago someone made an apt comparision with Scott Rolen in Philadelphia. I'd like to see Zimm in the 6 or 5 spot, move Guzzie into the 3 slot and let F Lope and Belliard share the lead off responsibilities.

A shout out to Abbott and Costello, I think.

---

Hu's on first ...

Posted by: Bob L. Head | April 21, 2008 3:17 PM

Bob L: No, I think he is at shortstop.

Posted by: Dick | April 21, 2008 3:24 PM

Section 506 said 'I don't give a darn'. Why?

A shout out to Abbott and Costello, I think.

-----

Right-o. who plays shortstop on the team.

ready, set, go!

506, I think your considerable talent for mediation may be wasted here, you should be with the peanut farmer on the West Bank.

506....Interesting view....I sure liked the 2005 season more than anything Acta has put together. 2006 with Alfonso hitting 50 in RFK was fun. Acta teams.....not so much.....yet I hope.

I think Frank had holes as a manager but I sure liked his baseball knowledge and his ability to call them as they were not as others wished they were.

Why does this blog devolve into a "fire Jim Bowden" diatribe? Some of you just have different philosophies that make sense on one level and not on others. Not trading Soriano was not entirely Bowden's fault. It does take two to trade. Did we not get supplemental #1 picks by not trading after he signed as a FA. Is basically trading Wilkerson for two #1's that bad of a deal?
Trading Livan for Chico and Mock? Not bad at all. Getting a chance to have Pena in our lineup? Not bad. The pitchers we gave up for Kearns and Lopez we do not really miss. At least we get a chance to see if two everyday starters will catch fire for us.
Getting Flores on Rule 5? Surely a steal. The book is still out on Milledge and Dukes at this point but I like the odds. Not trading Cordero? Who were we actually offered?

Part of the equation is not only getting talent but using it in the right way. In two more years you will see the developing talent on the field. How it is managed will be the tale that we will have many arguments over. I think the management of who we have now is the riper fruit to pick.

on a side note, did anyone notice what the "throw-in" on the soriano for wilky trade has done for two games in detroit?

IP / H / R / ER / BB / SO / ERA
12.0 / 4 / 2 / 2 / 4 / 10 / 1.50

I also enjoyed reading Barry's post regarding Zimmerman. Too bad we are not privy to Lenny Harris' clinics with Zimmerman to see if these points are made to him. I think getting him out of the number 3 spot will free him up to be a more natural hitter by taking the burden off of his shoulders. Putting Johnson in #3 will continue the rallies. Kearns is hitting into too many DP's to hit 4th. Pena looks like he needs a month of seasoning at this stage. That leaves these possibilities: Zim, Lopez, the catcher. I guess by default Zim would be 4th. So in a convoluted way Zim will improve by hitting lower in the order but to do so Kearns or Pena have to improve greatly so that they can bat 4. These things are just not working out right now.

and new post. figgerz.

new post

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