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The Chinese government wants religion to die they are behind this

About time someone put a stop to the Bad Book. More people have died thanks to it than all the video games and movies put together.

Surgeon General cautions that opening this book may lead to Sodom & Gomorrah...
Falwell is spinning in his grave

Since when is censorship "protecting the masses"? "Protecting the masses" from what?

Free thought, maybe? Questioning authority, maybe? Caring for your fellow man, maybe?

Or, are these folks just trying to get the masses to march to the drummer they are being told to march to?

Actually Emil, you used the words "violence, incest, rape and cannibalism" in your post so you are now in violation of the Hong Kong censors. Your post should have a warning screen pop-up that requires proof of age to be submitted before the public can read it. Of course, readers would lose all anonymity when they submit the required information. And the Hong Kong thought police would know exactly who and where you are.

Once you start down the censorship path, it will apply to everybody, including you.

Is that what you are advocating?

I am NOT and have NOT ever advocated censorship. My point was that for those who do, the first book they condem should be the Bible, as it is responsible for more human suffering than any other in history.

Burn Bible Burn

It's unfortunate this blogger Emil (like most poorly written blog authors on the internet) has decided to focus on a singular event without its context, and chose to spin the incident as some provocative anti-christian agenda with Christians cast as victims.

For those of you who would like to be more informed: earlier this month, Christian groups in Hong Kong successfully petitioned for the Chinese University student newspaper to be classified as indecent material, citing a collection of sex-themed op/ed articles in a recent issue as evidence.

The flood of complaints to petition the bible as indecent material (to the same watchdog group that has censored the student newspaper) was not a sincere attempt to censor the Bible, but rather, to expose the double standard Christians managed to set for themselves, as well as to prove that not all written prose with sexual content should be universally baned.

Then they also have a warning on "The Tibetan Book of the Dead," right? It's also a really dangerous book, especially in the hands of the monks.

in response to "emil".
The bible has not caused the most suffering throughout human history. People are not following the bible when they go into a city street and blow themselves to pieces in the name of God. Think of whatever book they're reading, the book that has caused the most suffering.

hi

if you look at this with a closed mind, you can never win.

Everyone with brain knows the bible is a tool of indoctrination just like any other religious text.
This isn't some big secret, but it can become dangerous in the wrong peoples hands.
Take for example George Bush or Bin Laden (Koran). These people use books to get people to act in a very unfortunate fashion

The problem with the Bible is that just like a Million Little Pieces is its a book of fiction sold as fact.
I got no problem with the book, plenty of sex and violence... the problem comes with how leaders use it.

"While it is ironic to hear religious leaders telling the faithful not to take the Bible literally and instead look at it within the context of a historical document..."

What's "ironic"* about that? Not all Christians are literalists. Heck, not even all fundamentalist Christians are literalists. Exactly how much do you know about Christianity? Not much, it seems.

"However, there is something to be said for the historical use of Biblical and, indeed, all religious belief as a justification or at least a motive in a litany of crimes committed against humanity."

Kind of like how the goal of eliminating the influence of religion was used to justify the imprisonment and execution of thousands of Christians and Buddhists by the atheist Maoists in China during the Cultural Revolution, huh? Or how about that same goal being used to justify even more horrendous persecutions against religious people by atheists in the Soviet Union, Turkey under the Young Turks, France during the Revolution, and Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge? If you are going to rely on the logical fallacy of guilt by association, you should at least take a look at your own associates first. They are some of the worst associates you could have, and you seem to be closer with them than a lot of other secularists I've met, given your intolerance.

"As readers of this blog know, I would never advocate any form of censorship, but if the purpose of regulating content is the protection of the masses, then it certainly seems like the Bible would be a logical place to start."

The blatant hypocrisy of that sentence astounds me. Your insinuated hatred of Christians is so strong that you openly admit that you are willing to sell out your own values to exercise it. That is disgusting. Also, it is not your place to appeal to logic. Given your reliance on a common logical fallacy as pointed out above, I can tell how little you know about the discipline of logic.

* Take a university English course to learn what the word "irony" really means. Hint: If I said, "Your article is the pinnacle of knowledgeable journalistic integrity," I would be would be using sarcasm, a type of irony. Irony is saying one thing and meaning the opposite, not merely being surprising. Aren't you supposed to be a writer?

"I am NOT and have NOT ever advocated censorship. My point was that for those who do, the first book they condem should be the Bible, as it is responsible for more human suffering than any other in history."

What? A book can be responsible for something? I thought only people could be responsible for their actions, not inanimate objects. Or is your intolerance and bigotry causing you to make such absurd statements? Also, wouldn't the Communist Manifesto and Mien Kampf be "responsible" for infinitely more damage, and far less good, given the destructive nature of modern (non-religious) warfare and persecution.

A Friend, are you kidding? From ancient Jews to Ancient Egypt, to the Romans, The Crusades, the Inquisition, the 100 years war the witch trials, anti-semetism, Northern Ireland, Pakistan and India, suicide bombers, 9/11, religion is the oldest and most popular reason for human suffering ever!
Go look up your facts. People did the killing, not the religion, but without it they wouldn't have acted.

So if they were atheists they "wouldn't have acted"? Then why have secularists killed or persecuted hundreds of thousands or even millions of people in the French Revolution, the Armenian Genocide, the Cultural Revolution, the Great Purge, etc? The people who carried out these crimes against humanity had no religion, so by your logic they shouldn't have killed or persecuted anyone, but they did. And we're not talking minor perseuctions here. We're talking hundreds of thousands of people killed by their own governments, many of them simply *because they held religious beliefs*. Read up on the gulag prison camp system, or the dechristianization of France, or the Killing Fields, and you will learn that. History demonstrates your argument, that people without religion are peaceful, that they "wouldn't have acted", to be false. Secularists have killed enough people to rival the followers of any religion, including Christians.

It's nice to see China has the courage to not flinch when addressing one of the worst pieces of idiotic fiction ever written that is by far the greatest excuse used for murder and other horrific crimes throughout history. I hope they add the Koran to that short list because that volume of bile is running a close second now. Actually they should keep the bible in their public toilets because it makes fair toilet paper in a tight pinch. And all you've done after using it is to have just put more of what's already on the pages, except in a slightly more honest form.

The author is saying if you HAVE TO censor you should start with the bible which along with most religious texts has been used to start wars and genocide.
Personally I think this is one of the least horrible things China has attempted to do in its history.

How many people have been killed for the purpose of advancing secularist political ideology? Starting with the dechristianization of France, the first time militant secularists (a combination of atheists and deists) came to power over a nation, a few thousand clergy of the Roman Catholic Church, both nuns and priests, were executed by state appointment and mobs using the guillotine. This persecution culminated with the death of the Pope, who died in captivity under the French government. The French were fighting a war against, in large part, religion.

Another time militant secularists came to power was in Turkey. The Young Turks saw religion as backwards, and wanted to remove its influence from society. The Armenians were a Christian ethnic ground within Turkey. The Young Turks saw them as a foreign and religious influence, and managed to systematically exterminate over a million of them between 1915 and 1917 in the worst modernized slaughter until the Holocaust. This genocide was mostly motivated by ethnic hatred, but at least a part of it was because the Armenians were religious, and not even Muslim at that (the Young Turks tolerated Islam only because there were so many Muslims in Turkey).

The next instance was the Russian Revolution in 1917. Until the 1980s, and especially under Stalin in the post-war years, the Russian Orthodox Church endured the worst religious persecution I have ever read about. The Communist Party of the USSR saw religion as an evil capitalist tool, and sought to free the people from its influence. And they did a very good job, and killed a lot of Christian clergy and laity doing it. I read a nonfiction book about a man in the gulag, a writer, who slept near the women's barracks. There was a group of forty or so religious women, "politicals," and he would see them praying every day. One day he saw them taken away behind the barracks to be shot. The ROC now divides its martyrs into two categories: The Old Martyrs killed by the pagans, and the New Martyrs killed by the Communist Party. The New Martyrs outnumber the Old Martyrs considerably. After decades of persecution, Christianity is making a comeback in the former Soviet Union. The true extent of the persecution is only now being revealed with the declassification of Soviet documents.

I could tell you about Cambodia, Albania, and a half dozen other countries and a few hundred thousand more Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists who have been murdered for the purpose of ridding the world of religion. Do you need me to go on, or are you convinced that secularists can be just as lethally intolerant as religious people? Looking at some of the comments on this page, I am convinced more than ever. This is where it starts.

"The author is saying if you HAVE TO censor you should start with the bible which along with most religious texts has been used to start wars and genocide."

I know what they author's saying, and it's like saying, "If you HAVE TO be a hate-filled intolerant bigot, you should be a hate-filled intolerant bigot against this group, and here's why." I can't sympathize with that thinking, and I feel sorry that you can.

Ughh I'm sick of religious nuts like A. Friend thumping their Bibles like they're poop don't stank. Religion is a crutch. If you want to use it thats fine, but admit it for whatit is and stop behaving like a child.

"Ughh I'm sick of religious nuts like A. Friend thumping their Bibles like they're poop don't stank."

Cafe Bob, I'm sick of secularist "nuts" (remember, you're in that 1% of humanity that doesn't believe in something more, I'm in the 99% that does) like you knocking my Bible like their "poop don't stank". Secularists have committed unspeakable horrors in this world in the name of secularism and combating religion, but most have no idea of or actively ignore this history of bloodshed. Then these secularists turn around and lob accusations of violence against religion. Do you see the duplicity in that?

"Religion is a crutch. If you want to use it thats fine, but admit it for whatit is and stop behaving like a child."

Your words only prove my point that secularists can be prejudiced bigots just as easily as any religious person.

This is the first time I have heard that the Chinese Government is behind this.

AFAIK, this is an attempt to mock the censorhsip authority. So far members of this authority have been acting like a bunch of clowns.

The campaign has been quite successful in my eyes. I hope this campaign would lead to a further discussion on this whole censorship thing.

Just to tell you, in 1995 this very same censoring authority labelled the statue David by Michelangelo as indecent after receiving complaints about the statue's male genitals.

Coquitlam Falcons is right on the note. And the reason Bible was being pinpointed is: the censorship authority clowns have repeatedly entertained complaints from the same Christian group for censorship of things like sex talk in a student union publication of an university or a single phrase of coarse language (not directed to anyone but just for expressing the character's anger) in a movie shown on TV. Chinese government being part of this? Nice try!

Extremists on all sides of the religion debate are dangerous. Atheists Flynn who want to destroy the religion and religious koots like Friend who want to destory atheism are both whacked.
Stop fighting and accept each others differnces

Bill Craw how can lump Atheists in the same boat as religious koots? Anyone with half a brain knows that people who believe in God are the unevolved. They need belief because they are too weak to think for themselves and too egotistical to accept that nothing happens when they die, that their soul is just a cuddly idea to keep them from jumping off of bridges.
To A Friend first of all it's a lot closer to 80% of the world which believes in "something more" and just because the number is high doesn't mean they have the first clue about anything. Might does not make right. 500 years ago 99% of the world thought it was flat too. The majority of Americans in the Red States think evolution never happened and the best way to prevent AIDS is to teach kids abstainance. Get a clue, you sound like a smart person, stop being part of the freaking problem.

You guys get it all wrong man.

The protest is more like a mock protest against the TELA rather a real protest against the bible. The TELA has recently ruled a university newspaper "indecent" because it contained a sex-related column which mentioned incest. However, lots of people find that the TELA's decision is over done. It has nothing to do with religious freedom! (although it's true there aint much in mainland China, but HK is HK, China is China)

Who said I want to destroy atheism? Atheism is fine if that's what you want to believe. I live in a country where about half of the population is atheist, and I have no problem with that because I trust that they will respect my rights because most of them love democracy just as much as I do. It's the bigotry that sometimes goes along with atheism (as well as religion) that I take issue with, not the atheism and religions themselves. It's just when atheists start advocating persecution of religious people in order to combat religion in general (to solve the "freaking problem" as someone put it) that I get bothered. I have just as much a problem with that as when religious people start killing each other to wipe out particular religions. I've met incredibly tolerant atheists and incredibly intolerant religious people, and the other way around. I just want the intolerant atheists to realize that it goes both ways, and to show them what they are capable of if they take their bigotry to the extreme. And history shows what they are capable of. That is how you can lump militant religionists and militant atheists together. They both refuse to tolerate.

99% of humanity is religious. 80% of this generation of humanity is religious. Sorry, I should have been clearer, but I was referring to all of humanity throughout history, and in that history atheism is a minority. Convention is a good indicator of sanity and is often used in courts and mental health facilities to determine sanity. Atheists who accuse religious people of being insane should take that into consideration. I'm not saying that might makes right. I'm saying, "Don't go around accusing the vast majority of humanity of being insane, because that's what crazy people do."

Don't you think it's a tiny bit self-aggrandizing to think that you're "more evolved" than me and most of the other people in the world just because you accept the proposition that there is no God? Don't you think it's slightly "egotistical" to think that all of these people are unevolved and that you are more evolved? And if so, wouldn't that make you a hypocrite for chastising religious people for being egotistical? I remember when I was an atheist three years ago that I looked down on religious people as being weak, just like you do now. Then I discovered the reason why I enjoyed looking down on so many people, and it's not because I was strong, but because my beliefs were so weak. I don't know how secure your atheism is, but if you need the ideological blockade of thinking that religious people are unevolved, you might want to shore up that hole with something more substantial.

By the way, I do think that evolution has happened and is happening. I got 100% in grade 12 biology, and I'm thinking of doing evolutionary biology as one half of my double major. But I'm not a naturalist.

P.S. People 500 years ago, and 750 years ago for that matter, knew that the world is round just as well as we do today. It's an urban myth started in the last century that they thought it was flat. I'm amused when people refer to that myth in conveying the progressivist fallacy. Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

There is a story in the bible which tells about an evening in which two angels came to visit Lot. While Lot was sitting in his livingroom having a pleasant conversation with these two angels, a large group of people from town gathered outside his home making a ruckus. They had heard that Lot had angels visiting with him, and they wanted a piece of the action too! So what does Lot do? He sticks his head out the front door and tells them all that if they'll just be quiet he'll send out his two young daughters and they can have sex with them.
Nice story, eh? I'm against censorship of all types, but were I for it I'd start with the bible.
The bible is full of violence, and complete nonsense. It serves no purpose what-so-ever other than to give some jackass in an expensive suit and a bad hairdo something to flap in the air while he yells at people and uses fear tactics to coerce them in to donating money. It's a prop. That's all.

The bible is a curse

I am very skeptical about the truthfulness of the stories written in the Bible... Some of them imply that a man can be "righteous" after getting drunk and having incest with his 2 young virgin daughtes until both got pregnant (LOT)... Also, it is OK for the son of a wh*re to have his virgin daugter killed and sacrificed on the Altar of the BibleGod because of a promise that he made to God... Also, it is OK to sell your young daughter as a slave for any reason and for whatever pleasure the new owner whims and if he is not pleased he has the God given right to beat the Hell out of that girl... All this can be done under God's approval...

Pearls before swine.

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here--sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

dear Pops and Strange Opus, before you give any ideas, please at least make sure you understand it well, try to see the whole picture, then read it until the end. and dear others, why don't you spent so much times to fighting with other's idea, but forget to spend time to have a deep look at yourself? no need to blame anything for the conflicts in the world, because even you could not stop the conflicts in your deep heart. dear all, do you believe in true love? do you seeking it? do you give it? and do you understand it at all?

The complaints against the Bible is not direclty related to the Hong Kong Chinese University Student Press complaints. The ones who created that website have personal issues with Christianity. They just noticed that it was a good time to launch an attack, thanks to the naive student editors of Chinese University. Those who complained against the Bible just wanted to use it as an excuse to argue. If the Student Press were indecent, then the Bible must surely be indecent as well, according to them. The Student Press contains sex survey on incest and beastiality and pornographic fictions but there is no educational material or any contribution from qualified professionals. Yet the editors defend themselves as saying they are doing academic research and they have the right to freedom of speech. When faced with possible legal actions, they blame the University for not providing financial support and pushing them into a corner.
Now even the Koran has been complained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHQjBUFGyI
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=43898&sid=13493062&con_type=1&d_str=20070508
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=44207&sid=13554736&con_type=1&d_str=20070511
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=44362&sid=13589562&con_type=1&d_str=20070514
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44479&sid=13602191&con_type=1&d_str=20070515
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44570&sid=13623071&con_type=1&d_str=20070516
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44667&sid=13640044&con_type=1&d_str=20070517
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=44741&sid=13667545&con_type=1&d_str=20070518
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=15&art_id=45019&sid=13727795&con_type=1&d_str=20070523
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=45089&sid=13733251&con_type=1&d_str=20070523

Well I disagree about the Bible being bad. I do not understand what the world is coming to. For the person that said BURN BIBLE BURN whoa to you that is a heavy thing to say. well i love the bible i love reading it. i love Jesus

The Bible is not a good book. Look what it has made the religious nuts! NUTS! Thats what it does to good people.

IT sucks them in and makes them into bad people!

Look around you. The good Christians are the ones who don't take this religion seriously. Just like Islam. Good muslims are the ones who DON'T take Islam seriously.

It's about time!