>Shocked by the never-ending anxiety. >Shocked by the extreme highs and lows and >frustration and resentment on all sides >of the table.

Consider that just may be Leslie!

My husband is a great dad. He works hard, has a grueling commute but still makes it to concerts, baseball & softball games etc. He's also a great cook and does the weekend meal's for the most part which we all look forward to (I mow the lawn). I have to agree that men do more on the homefront and it is just expected by women that they will do so. I'm not sure why that is a surprise though, because women do more as well and it too is just expected. Every now and then we both thank each other for the relentless efforts we make in providing a nice, stable home for our children and ourselves. A thank you goes a long way.

Happy Father's Day Perry! Such a fine display of courage sticking your neck out to write this column. I hope you got paid! HAHAHA

On Balance it seems you have decided that the Sunday cat litter is flak worth flying through rather than taking a stand - eventually maybe the four year old can have the job every other week!

I have a old house too and I actually love the fact that is so old. Means that flaws and cracks are character! uh right? but it does mean that the "honey do" list is endless. Funny that even if the entire weekend was spent shuttling kids to sports, dance, church, birthdays, whatever... that this winter I missed way to much MNF fixing, spackling, whatever. One week of evenings was spent stapling insulation onto the basement floors because the kitchen floor was too cold. Yet when we get to crossed swords " dont do anything around the house."

um, we dont have pets. We have a couple neglected fish.

Oh well a small price to pay to "have fun with our kids, share laughs with our friends, have sex with our wives, and occasionally play or watch some sports." As for the "hanging out without being nagged," for that "We go to work" and kill the cat.... Unless the sex part aint goin so well and the cat is all you got.

Happy Father's Day,

Maybe I should get a cat?

You want a medal for taking out the trash? For cleaning out the litter box? Whose job should this be, since you're so clearly miffed and resentful that it's yours? You want special recognition for going to your kids' sporting events? What kind of "credit" are you looking for? This is a chore to you, a burden?

I don't like it when people use this comment section to be rude. So I mean this with all due respect:

I agree with one thing you wrote: You are clueless. Exactly what did you think you signed on for when you became a husband and a dad?

Well, I was beginning to emphasize with Perry, but as I read his article, I realized that, as a single mom, I have been doing all of the "dad" chores for the past 20 years as well as my own! So do I get a gift on father's day, too?

Perry ,
Right on the money , beware the bitter people , they're already coming out this morning . " I don't like to be rude but , I'll go ahead and be rude anyway " . Bitter , party of one , you're table is ready ! Hang in there Brother , and remember , all the bitterness that comes in today is THEIR problem , not yours. We are simple , just simple enough to be able to laugh these kind of comments off .

"We're men. We do our best. We're not selfish. Just clueless."

This really makes me scratch my head. On the one hand, I completely agree that many husbands who feel that they are doing their "best" simply have no "clue" that their best can always get better. Are wives who feel overburdened by insufficient sharing of the household and childcare chores (no, the children aren't chores, but their laundry, dishes, and so on are) supposed to just accept this final statement of the blog as "well, that's the way it is, so I get I should just get over it." To me, it smells like a cop-out on the husband's part. On the other hand, my marriage has gotten happier the more I've learned to just let things go.

I have to say that this blog entry, although admittedly brave and honest, irked me. If husbands are aware that they're clueless, why so little attempt to get a clue?

Lovedbeingamombut - sort of pathetic that there is no Single Parent's Day. Maybe Hallmark will catch on...

Amy Luis wrote, "I agree with one thing you wrote: You are clueless. Exactly what did you think you signed on for when you became a husband and a dad?"

Let me answer for ya Perry -

Friendship, teamwork, support, sex...but although a sensitive man of the '80's, when I said "I do," I didnt sign up to became a woman!: ie I retain my condition of blissfull ignorance and forgo all the handwringing over useless minutia and deal with what is and what I can do to improve the situation. Empathy sucks. Emphasize the practical! If Perry wants to complain about shovelling sh*t every Sunday doesnt seem an unreasonable gripe.

I do beleive "lovedbeing a mom" qualifies for a Father's day card and a day for a round of golf or unimpeded access to ESPN. A "Blue's Clues" blackout period should apply.

Good luck today Perry, I hope you have a thick skin.

Where can I buy a cat?

I don't think all husbands are clueless, I think in some cases they chose to be clueless, just as I chose to be clueless about drills, oil changes etc...my husband choses to be clueless on setting up playdates. Its a trade-off and don't all married couples make trade-offs in the chores departments?

"...I didnt sign up to became a woman!: ie I retain my condition of blissfull ignorance and forgo all the handwringing over useless minutia and deal with what is and what I can do to improve the situation"

Who wants you to be a woman? However, all the things women often concern themselves with aren't just "useless minutia" that should only be of concern to them. Hello. You (male or female) and the kids have to eat everyday. Which means you have to cook (or some facsimile thereof). Which means you have to go to the grocery store. Which means a list might be nice or at least some idea of what you need to do said cooking. This is not "useless" minutiae. This is what gets you through the day. And while it's good to get some of those projects around the house done, sometimes it's NOT the mostly useful thing someone can be doing to contribute to the household's bottom line.

are too

We're not talking about being clueless on how to cook a souffle. We're talking about husbands feeling heroic for taking the trash out in the rain when that effort, although certainly deserving of thanks, may pale in comparison to the often thankless efforts of his spouse/teammate. Yes, I know that many parenting jobs are thankless, but do most husbands know that, too?

So that I could sleep one night, my husband once stayed up until 3 a.m. to console our baby who had difficulty sleeping for the first year of her life. He told me that he deserved a hero's medal for what he had done. She was 2 months old, and I had done it without help until then. What does one say to that? Having a fight over that level of cluelessness seemed pointless.

fatherof3, cats are a dime a dozen. I'm betting if you checked around at your work, you'd be able to find three or four people who "just need to get rid of a kitten or two". After said acquisition of cat, invest in one of those litter boxes that is self-cleaning. :D

Father of 3, get a kitten from the animal shelter. They are annoying animals but they are fun to toss around and make easy pets for the kids. I got my first cat from the marriage package and did my decade of box duty. I gave my 2 daughters kittens for Christmas presents after the original died, both females, so now my daughters do all the dirty work. I can tell when they don't get fed because a dead animal shows up on the porch, but hey, it keeps the critters out of my tomato garden. Anyway, within a year after giving my daughters the kittens, we had a litter of 5 more. Our 2 year old son had great fun chucking them around the house. Out of the litter, we gave 2 away to a mother that needed emergency child care, 2 more went to friends, and the last one went to my next door neighbor, who has a boa constricter.

Sorry Perry, but I hope Leslie doesn't let you read these comments since so many people are out to get you. These gripers often suffer from penis envy, lack of sex, selfishness, loneliness or, more likely are just a bunch of bitter Bettys. Now ladies get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich. Now.

I forgot to mention that the kittens will solve the neglected fish problem too.

"Having a fight over that level of cluelessness seemed pointless." - cb

Ay, tha's the rub! I believe this should be a keynote phrase in the manual for the parenting/marriage learner's permit and the mantra during the mandatory 30-day cooling off period.

Maybe the minutia I was concerned about is the problematic translation of "I deserve a medal, or I deserve thanks." These comments don't exclude the notion that the counterpart of the first part don't deserve recognition, or even more recognition. Since it has been known for spouses to take umbrage at their other half wanting credit, thanks or some sort of atta'boy (atta'girl) positive reinforcement for breaching the Elizabethan role model boundaries, it is healthy to just say thanks, or ya could roll your eyes and say, "Silence you bumbling ignoramus. Let's get busy."

It would be truly sad if this turns out to be a "bash the clueless dads" blog in honor of father's day. I really think that Perry's 'clueless' reference is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Putting myself in his shoes it generally maps to a puzzlement around why all the stress and hand-wringing exists in the day-to-day. I don't think he means that he's incapable of making a shopping list.

Ladies, I think it's perfectly valid for us Dads to think we deserve the occasional pat on the back. If you want to say you Moms deserve them too, I agree. If you want to say we don't deserve the simple "thank yous", that's very dissapointing to me.

Perry, great post and good luck buddy. I've got Nats/Yanks tix on Sunday and I almost feel like I should ditch the wife and baby and take you! ;-)

-Pp.

I rather enjoyed today's column and didn't take any offense. I think it's worthwhile to see things from a man's point of view.

Years ago when my son was very small, and my husband and I both worked, he told me he felt like he was "doing everything."

I bet it did feel that way to him, because a child takes a lot of energy. So, he was doing much more than he had previously. I was also recovering from a major blood loss after delivery (it took about a year to feel better).

And, while my husband liked to cook, he was not cleaning or doing laundry, or making sure the baby had diapers and food, (okay, I breastfed for a long time, so he couldn't do that one).

We both worked a regular schedule (we were home for dinner every night).

Then when my son was about a year old, my husband re-activated his commission in the Naval Reserves. So with a small child, he was able to go away for a weekend a month and several weeks a year.

He didn't need to go; he wanted to. In the years since then, he also finished his M.S. and PhD. I had finished my M.S. and dropped out of a PhD before kids. (Actually, my grad school would not grant me a leave of absence when I had my son).

All of this happened gradually, over time. It's not as if he announced, "For the next ten years, I'll be away one weekend a month, and working long hours, and by the way, I'll be pursuing my advanced degrees two or three nights a week."

Having a second child in the middle of this showed me how much things had changed. While he was very busy all of the time with his own pursuits, there was no way he could feel or say he was "doing everything." He was hardly ever at home.

And, maybe this is where some men --not all -- are clueless and choose to be.

Yes, he cooks occasionally, he takes out the garbage, and does an occasional load of laundry. And I thank him for what he does. Okay, mowing the lawn, too.

But in all honesty, he has no idea of what goes into running the house and family on a day-to-day basis, and all of his busy work ensures he won't have to be truly engaged in it.

On the other hand, I know he feels a tremendous burden of being the major breadwinner. But the truth is, if he had sought a more egalitarian partnership in this area, he wouldn't have to be the major breadwinner.

I felt I was parenting alone much of the time without the benefit of being alone.

I disagree with Terry on 1 point. I think men are selfish, we just don't care.
I'll share a recipe I learned from my wife:
Pick up the phone. Dial 411, ask for Dominoe's Pizza...
Oh yeah, and what man needs a clue when there's a cold 6-pack in the fridge?
C'mon dads, lets have some good-old-boy fun, it's our day!

"When Leslie was pregnant with our youngest, she convinced me that some study declared cat poop dangerous to pregnant women, so I got duped into changing the cat litter every week."

She was right. Pregnant women exposed to dirty cat litter can develop toxoplasmosis, described this way by WebMD:

Toxoplasmosis is a common infection in birds and mammals, including humans. It is caused by a tiny parasite called Toxoplasma gondii. For most people, toxoplasmosis is not dangerous and goes away on its own. However, if a pregnant woman becomes infected and passes it on to her unborn baby (fetus), it can cause blindness and brain damage in the fetus.

Sorry if you don't like the nasty chore of cat box cleaning, but your wife was right about that one.

"I think men are selfish, we just don't care." - Father of 4

There it is, the God's honest truth. In all seriousness, this helps me understnd my husband much better.

You got lucky with the cat poop. When I was pregnant with my youngest, I had difficulty carrying the laundry basket full of dirty clothes to the basement. So, my husband took over and actually did all the laundry for the family. That's a chore that I never took back. He still does laundry for the entire family. And the baby is 14. =)

We may complain about the guys but deep down we still love you all. I hate to admit it, but some of the problem with this subject is that a lot of women want things done their way. If the cooking were left to my husband, we would only eat 3 different things. So, I'm not happy with the amount of cooking I do. I realize that he isn't refusing or expecting me to do it all, he just isn't doing it MY way. It's not fair to expect him to be me.

I say hurray for you to put your "feelings" out there. I mean women always want to know how we're feeling.

I can see from the comments it's so they can bash us for being "admittedly" clueless.

So the moral of the story is rule with an iron fist, don't admit to being imperfect and build a man cave where no women are allowed.

But on the bright side, if someone says they're doing the best they can, I take it at face value. The tone of the column in no way indicates someone trying to "get over" on anybody else.

My wife tells me exactly what I need to do to keep harmony in the house. "TAKE OUT THE TRASH AFTER DINNER, every night, even if it's not full." So I do. But then there are the nights I have school. And we eat out, or get home late from other activities or need to run errands. Or have to go check the car because my wife thinks it's shifting funny, or she heard a weird noise while going down a gravel road with the kids yelling in the back seat.

So is my wife delusional? Clueless and delusional are a great pair.

You know if we'd all just worry more about doing our best, and not trying to compare ourselves to everyone else's life we'd all be much happier. Or am I just clueless?

Feeling like "deserving a medal" most likely comes from being taken for granted. In my house, we never take the other for granted.

If I cook dinner, the wife thanks me for cooking. If she cleans up, I thank her for cleaning. If I empty the dishwasher, she thanks me for doing it. If she makes the kids' lunches for the next day, I thank her for doing it. If she breaks something, I thank her. When I fix it, she thanks me. It's simple.

Nothing is assumed / taken for granted in house - other than pre-arranged items (like she takes the kids to daycare).

And as for the kitty litter, the disease that can effect pregnant women (taxoplasmosis) can only be in the cat's feces if they are outdoor cats. It is from uncooked, contaminated meat (i.e. catching animals). The articles pregnant women read on this (normally in pregnancy magazines) often fail to mention that "little" distinction.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/factsht_toxoplasmosis.htm

"A cat can become infected by eating infected prey or by eating raw or undercooked meat infected with the parasite."

Hey supermom, taxoplasmosis a risk ONLY if the cat goes outside. Indoor cats CANNOT get taxoplasmosis. Take a look at this PDF file from the CDC's website.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/ToxoWomen.pdf

Lots of ways to get taxo. He got fooled.

Yes dear, you're right.
I was wrong.
It was all my fault.
I am sorry.
I'll do better, you'll see.
I promise.
Can I get you a beer?

Which of these dont go togther?

Rubber Duckie, you're the one
You make bathtime lots of fun
Rubber Duckie, I'm awfully fond of you

(woh woh, bee doh!)

Rubber Duckie, joy of joys
When I squeeze you, you make noise!
Rubber Duckie, you're my very best friend, it's true!

(doo doo doo doooo, doo doo)

CHORUS:
Every day when I
Make my way to the tubby
I find a little fella who's
Cute and yellow and chubby
(rub-a-dub-a-dubby!)

Rubber Duckie, you're so fine
And I'm lucky that you're mine
Rubber duckie, I'm awfully fond of you!

Peace in our time. A mystery wrapped in an enigma.

I do.

Hang on Perry!

I read the article, my daughter read it and pointed it out to me and sent me a big Thank you dad note, and then I read the responses. I thank God I have the wife I had and not some of the gals that post here. She is my other half that helps to balance me as I work my regular job and my reserve duties. I work this hard so that she can work part time and being there for the kids when and if they need it.

I mow the lawn on weekends, cook most weekends, help with the dishes, fix the dishwasher, change the oil in all the cars and do other maintenance as needed while still show up to most games and sports. I'm not clueless and consider all this work as what a father is supposed to do in support of his family. I know my children don't always seem to appreciate it but that's not why I signed up for this job.

So I'd like to thank my wife for tolerating me in all my moods and finding the time to make dinner most nights and keeping it hot for me those nights I need to go for a run to help balance my stresses. And thank you Sarah for being a good daughter. You and your brother and sister are all good people and I'm proud to be your father.

Having spent a large amount of time around men before I got married (comes with the territory of my old profession of geology), I am well aware that men are generally more clueless than selfish. (Selfish behaviour is present equally in both genders, and I don't see the female gender as the sole paragon of virtue) As a result, my husband generally "gets away with" (his words) a lot more than most of his friends.

However, we are doing a little counselling right now. Not because we're in trouble, but because we're working on improving our communication skills. In only a few sessions we've already broken through some assumptions we had made about our relationship and each other in the few years we've been married. The little fights are disappearing, and we hope that we're getting ready for a kid of our own (or perhaps, the realization that we don't need one, having met in our 30's when our lives were more set).

What I think is funny is my Mom's attitude. When my husband does something that drives me crazy and I gripe about it, she tells me I need to just accept it, that's the way men are and marriage is. But lately she's also been telling me that she let my Dad get away with "selfish" behaviour for far too long and she wishes she had changed it long ago!

not a supermom, thanks for posting the toxoplasmosis info -- I was irked when I read that and was going to do it myself. You saved me the trouble.

One other phrase I wanted to call out: "We work long hours, longer than any previous generation of fathers." I *highly* doubt this. Check back to the beginning of the 20th century, before there were maximum work-week laws, or earlier, when people toiled from sunup to sundown (hearkening back to my high school Dickens and Silas Marner there). Maybe for the upper classes the long hours are a new thing, but they've always been around for the rest.

That said Perry, I did like your column and think you're doing a great job negotiating your responsibilities. Have a great father's day!

Well, my cats go outside sometimes, and sometimes the use the litter box inside. I'm just saying ...

not a superman (sorry about missing the "not a" before - or maybe I'm not sorry lol),

I understand that some/many people's cats are indoor/outdoor. However, some/many cats are indoor only and it irks me when the mags don't differentiate and just tell pregnant women "make the man do it".

I HATE incomplete/misleading information in articles. Heck, you can get taxo from gardening and I see pregnant women doing it all the time - because the mags don't talk about that.

Regarding Perry referring to himself as "clueless" - I think it has a lot more to do with how men and women approach household tasks -- a woman is more likely to peruse grocery store circulars, clip coupons and in essence "overthink" the weekly grocery shopping excursion. A man will drive to the nearest grocery store and buy what was put on the list. (and yes I recognize a woman probably wrote the list). If the end result is milk and other staple foods in the house does it reallly matter how the process was accomplished? We could all learn to let go a little and just let things happen. Remember Martha Stewart doesn't live at your house and she has a staff of gazillion to achieve that perfection. Be glad the men in your lives help and RELAX!

"A man will drive to the nearest grocery store and buy what was put on the list."

I wish.

I predict that "Chasmosaur | June 16, 2006 09:45 AM" will NOT need a PostNup. :-)

Whatever, Perry Steiner. It's so obvious you think it's not really YOUR job to do all this stuff (taking out the trash, changing cat litter), so you deserve "credit" or a cascade of praise. Do you give Leslie "credit" or a cascade of praise when she does all these things?

Since it's not rightfully your job, whose job should it be?

Your tone and choice of words show that you lack a cooperative spirit when it comes to marriage and children. Aren't you and your wife supposed to be in this together?

Where's your sense of humor people? Me - I'm sending this to my husband. He'll laugh and nod and say uh huh. Personally - I think you nailed it - esp in the first paragraph. The things that stress me out - well, my darling husband doesn't get it - just plain doesn't understand and he tries. Why can't we all just get along???

"A man will drive to the nearest grocery store and buy what was put on the list."

"I wish"

Ditto! Mine could spend hours going up and down the aisles. Everytime he says lets go to the grocery store I cringe because I know we will be in there way too long buy too much stuff because it was just too good of a buy. I guess its better than going to a hardware store.

"We do a lot around the house and with our kids that never gets noticed. . . . Stuff breaks all the time. It usually doesn't get noticed by anyone but me, and no one notices that I've fixed it."

I think the whole "no one notices but me" thing is what makes a lot of us feel burdened and unappreciated, be it dad OR mom. It's not so much the big "assigned" tasks that bug us, because we usually know enough to talk about that and work out a division of labor (i.e., I cook, he does dishes). It's the little things that fall through the cracks -- that feeling of, why does he/she always only do what I ask him/her to do, why can't he just see all the other stuff that needs to get done.

My husband and I have a very equitable distribution of labor, but there are still things that drive me nuts because he just doesn't "see" them. Two weeks ago, he put a note for himself by the door to bring his router in for a buddy to borrow. Router has been lent and returned; note is still sitting by the door. And I look at it and think, what, does he think it's just going to get up and walk itself to the trash? And yet, he'll occasionally complain that the house is a mess, without any sense of his own contribution. It's like the magical dirt fairies appeared one night. Like Perry said, though, it's not malicious, it's clueless -- that's not in his assigned universe of responsibility, so it's as if it doesn't exist. (In the interest of fairness: I'm sure I am equally clueless about some of the things that he automatically notices and takes care of. But because I am clueless about them, I can't give examples).

I think the difference is that men may be more likely to ask for attention and thanks. Of course, so do wives, so when husbands ask for that thanks, we then think of all of the unnoticed things we do without asking for or receiving thanks, and suddenly you're in a "I work 24/7 keeping this house and family from falling apart, and he takes out the trash once a week and wants a medal for it??" pissing match.

I think the only possible solution is to really pay attention to everything your partner does. And PLEASE don't just belittle it as unimportant, as I've heard in some of the tones here so far this morning. The worst feeling in the world is devoting your very limited time and energy to something because you know it needs to be done, only to have your partner poo-pooh that as a waste of time or unnecessary. Whether or not you might have chosen to do the same thing in the same way, your spouse thought it was important enough that he or she devoted time to taking care of it, instead of spendig that time doing something more satisfying or rewarding or just flat-out fun. That fact alone means that the effort deserves notice, respect, and thanks. And if you really don't know what your partner does or why, ASK!!

I'm a Dad. I do 100% of the cooking. 100% of the laundry. 100% of the yard work. 100% of the household maintenance. 100% of the pet care. I also spend "quality time" with my kids as much as possible. I take days off work (as does my wife) to be with sick kids, attend their events, read them stories, play games, give baths, change diapers, get the oldest up and ready for school.

I don't need or expect thanks for any of this--I do it because I love my wife and kids and want them to have a good home.

What do I want?

--No "face" when I want to play golf on a Saturday morning.

--No griping if I want to watch a ball game instead of "Finding Nemo" for the 427th time.

--Occasional sex without begging.

I'm like Perry--I'm simple.

Dad's Shopping Strategy:

Baby in cart chair, walkie talkies to the older kids who go on recon for assigned items from master list retained by "Tranquility Base." Which when the youngest was really little was anything but tranquil. Give baby lollipop if required. Some of the stuff they would bring back to the cart was really funny. Had the store in stitches when my son's battery ran out. "Come in tranquility base. What kind of eggs do I need to buy? Repeat, WHAT KIND OF EGGS? OVER!" I could hear him from aisles away... oops.

They say that impulsive buying is done mostly by men when they are out shopping. Going to the market is my big chance to replenish supplies:

Little Neck Clams
Scrapple
Kippers
Mini-kosher dill pickles
honey-maple Boar's Head Turkey
pimento olives
saurkraut
Shake-n-Bake mix
the long nathan's hot dogs
Newman's MEDIUM Salsa

See! I can be particularly picky too.

I actually made a standard shipping list template on the computer as I was tired of forgetting the exact brand etc of prefer3ence from da boss. My wife keeps it all in her head, I needed to write down the exact kind of whatever so I wouldnt get the wrong stuff. Oh the knashing of teeth and woe when I came back with the wrong kind of TP. Memorize: "Single Ply, Scotts."

Sundays during football season the supermarkets have alot of dads right after the home team game is over.

Pretty funny scene.

Laura, please tell me you're demanding a Post-nup?! I find it absolutely unacceptable that any husband leave a note on a door for more than 48 hours. I hope, for your sanity, that you are making him sleep on the couch until he fixes this egregious violation of marriage. For shame! Don't even THINK about throwing the note away--he needs to learn.

"Two weeks ago, he put a note for himself by the door to bring his router in for a buddy to borrow. Router has been lent and returned; note is still sitting by the door."

How about writing one less paragraph and throwing away the note yourself. Seriously, the effort that you have expended worring about a little piece of paper is what kills relationships.

Re: Product of a Working Mom's statement that the wife may be "overthinking" the groceries, whereas the husband will just go buy what's on the list:

See, this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. Someone could certainly accuse me of "overthinking" the groceries -- it would certainly be a lot faster just to run through the store and pick up some kielbasa and a pre-roasted chicken. But I'm not spending my time planning and clipping coupons because that's my idea of a swell time. I create menus and lists because it is important to me to serve my family healthy, home-cooked meals. I clip coupons and shop for deals because it is important to me that we use our money for more important things like saving for retirement, saving for college, and going on vacation. If I didn't spend the time, we'd eat a lot more pizza and lose probably another $20/week just on groceries.

I don't mind doing this, and don't expect a medal. But if my husband ever suggested I was "overthinking" it, it would send me through the roof, because it would tell me that he doesn't have a clue about why I am spending this time and effort on my family.

Oh, and btw, he does do the shopping sometimes, but never comes home with what's on the list. Last time I sent him with a 5-item list, and he came home an hour and $63 later! But I didn't complain -- I just said, oh well, and thanked him for taking the time to do that.

I agree with you about the anxiety etc. Women now feel a crushing need to be perfect in every way to satisfy some unknown judge. They then try to pass this unreasonableness around to others and forget that life and family are to be enjoyed. Sad situation.

One time my mom put 'up doc' on the grocery list and sent my Dad to the store. He had no idea what it was so he had to ask the store manager 'What's up doc?' We still get a chuckle out of that one.

Laura--pizza is good. Stop overthinking this. And go throw away the note.

C'mon Laura. Admit that the other stuff he bought with the remainder of that $63 tasted pretty good once he grilled it with some ginger and fresh garlic.

My dad recently retired and my mom became a SAHM when her second child was a toddler. I love and respect both my parents and I give credit where credit is due. My mom, being the SAH parent, had a job that was 24/7 and never quit... but she loved it, even with all the temper-tantrums, messy bedrooms, and nonstop chaos. My dad was the breadwinner, going to work in the morning and coming home in the evening. His job had relatively set hours, but he hated the job. Given the choice, I would rather be in the position of my mom than my dad.

"up doc"

There is a healthy marriage!

LOL

My wife makes the menu for the week and then makes the grocery list depending on what we'll be making and what we already have. She lists the items as she reads the recipes.

Since I tend to do the shopping, I then re-write the list in basic order I'll be going through the store (fruits/veggies -> dairy/eggs -> canned goods -> cereals -> meats -> cleaning -> bakery, etc.)

I don't ask her to write the lists in the way I like - I don't have to keep scanning the list to make sure I have everything from the section - and is sure saves time in the store. I don't know why my wife doesn't write the lists that way for when she goes shopping (heck, logical to me) but if she doesn't want to, no problem with me.

Laura is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

Hey Perry,

You are a gem in my book. While you are unhappy that you have to take out the garbage or fix things around the house, or clean the cat box, you do it WITHOUT YOUR WIFE NAGGING YOU, right? Well, imagine if she had to ask you to do this on the weekly basis. Imagine if she was the one noticing the things that break down, if she was in charge of everything and your job was to only to come home, play with the kids for 30 minute before bed time, exiting them to the point that makes them wound up and impossible to put to sleep. Imagine if the wife was the one reminding you that the house needs painting, that the deck needs refinishing, air conditioning needed looking after. Imagine a man who comes home as if it is a hotel with room service. Now, if you are still with me, imagine that this wife is also trying holding a full time job and to have a happy marriage, because her husband is not a bad person and trying her best not to sound like a nagg all the time. But deep inside the wife is wondering how it all happened this way. Ok, off to buy his father's day present......

One thing I feel like I've learned from this blog is to communicate with my husband. When there's something I want him to do, I'll ask. If he doesn't want to do it, he can then tell me so, and we each knows where the other stands. I would also expect him to extend me the same courtesy, and be clear about what he expects from me. Hopefully minimizing cluelessness and frustration on both sides. We've only been married 2 months, so this is probably wishful thinking, but I'm certainly going to try to stick with it. A lot of issues that show up here do seem to stem from assumptions.

Hey, shouldn't we be seeing the good things the father-of-our-children do on this Friday before Father's Day. Didn't we expect to be treated like a queen for Mother's Day?

I understand what Perry is talking about because my husband never quite worries about things in the same way I do and seems to think I overreact sometimes. It's all just a matter of perception and I'm sure there are reversal situations between husbands and wives depending on personality. We all think we are doing it all. In fact in our house we always take turns jokingly saying "I have to do everything around here". It serves also a reminder to us that maybe we are slacking off a little bit and that a big hug is due to the other person and then we both pitch in to get some chores done around the house.

BTW, one of the attributes that I married my husband for was that I knew he would be a good father and as far as I'm concerned he is the greatest Dad I've ever known especially since mine died when I was 6. Sometimes I might think he doesn't help enough around the "house" but he is there for me and our daughter in everyway.

Last week my brother in law came over to do some drinking. We found a 30-pack at the grocery store and when the wives found out, they were pissed. "Why did you buy that much beer for???"
Our answer was simple - "Because it was on sale!"
Hey, Father of 2, glad you're back. Some of us dads really do need a decent role model.

Beer is delicious.

Reading this blog never fails to make me grateful for what I've got. My husband is neither clueless nor selfish. He's involved with his daughter, takes care of countless things in and around the house without being asked, and always lets it be known how much he appreciates what I do. In return, I try to make sure he gets at least a few hours of time a week to do what he wants to do, I let him sleep in on the weekends, and I do whatever I can to make both of our lives as pleasant as possible. Bottom line, we both put each other first, and we always try to remember that we're both working hard to make our little family work.

And boy, is it worth it. I never thought I could love my husband more than I already did before we had a child. But when I see him with our little girl, my heart just melts. And, frankly, so does hers. She's only six months old, but she already recognizes the sound of the garage door and starts grinning like mad, looking around for her daddy. What could be better?

I have a feeling I'm not the only person who's this fortunate. So happy Father's Day to all of you great dads and husbands out there.

Actually, Patrick, thanks for the concern, but I really don't feel any crushing anxiety.

And come on, people the note's just an example I picked BECAUSE it's trivial. If having a pristine house were one of my priorities, I'd pick it up -- I just laughed at the irony of his comment that the house was a mess. Uh, yeah.

I love when my husband finds beer on sale. As Homer says, "Ah, beer. The cause and solution to all of life's problems."

Happy Father's Day everyone!

I think everyone sees balance differently. Like most of life in the 21st century, family life has sped up and is in flux. Roles are no longer clear cut. Women have made huge strides in society--they have literally redefined their lives. I think a partial consequence of that (both good and bad) is that men's lives and roles have become almost undefined. Division of labor in the home is no longer clearcut (I'm not saying it was fair in years past, just more clearcut) and so every little task easily becomes a battle ground--whose job is this? Whose should it be? Who actually does it? And do you agree on what it means to do the job (e.g., I'm a 2x a week cat litter person, my wife prefers daily since we have 3 cats... so now I do the litter daily, but I sneak out of the house in wrinkled clothes as revenge). More personal and domestic items fall through the cracks, especially the more demanding the career. We actually have a pretty decent balance at home, but even then, my wife will sometimes feel like she has to do it all. And regardless of gender, when do any two people do the same exact job? Technique is different. Focus is different. When men pitch in at home, it is often in place of mom, who usually has a distinct way of doing things--a different way that dads usually don't match. I'm hoping this merely adds some perspective or context, but the way I see things going is that men and women are fulfilling new roles while still trying to carry out old ones that sometimes conflict. As a broad generalization, this seems to cause more stress and guilt in women, and mostly just confusion in men (I'm not allowed to do the laundry at home even though I'd quite willingly take it on--if you ask me why I'm not allowed to do the laundry, I still don't really understand it... sure, there was a shirt or two that got shrunk, but nobody got hurt). Non-condenscending note to women everywhere: Men respond well to very direct communication (e.g., I need X to be done in this way at this time or else I will be stressed or feel I have to do it myself). I've heard my wife and many other women complain that they shouldn't have to ask for certain things. Sometime I agree--but isn't it easier to ask and get help, than to expect and be disappointed? For what it's worth, we've got one fantastic son, 3 cats, and 1 dog. I feel my role is undefined. But I feel loved and appreciated (by my wife and the dog at least). I think they feel the same way. And that's all that matters to me.

"I'm not allowed to do the laundry at home even though I'd quite willingly take it on--if you ask me why I'm not allowed to do the laundry, I still don't really understand it... sure, there was a shirt or two that got shrunk, but nobody got hurt"

LOL...I swear my husband must have wrote this. I threw him off laundry duty with the exception of towels for this very reason. I told him he could still do laundry without my items but he was like "If I can't do it all I'm not going to do any of it." Oh, and once on a long business trip he had to wash his own clothes and came home with pink T-shirts, underwear and socks and he could have cared less but I was upset. Talk about difference in perception. BTW, he looks nice in pink.

If you're clueless, then get a clue! Winston Churchill said, "It's not enough to do your best, you must do what is required."

A lot of parents (moms and dads) I know cop out by saying, "Well, I do my best" when they really are trying to make an excuse for not doing enough or what they know they should do.

I agree that too many women/mothers spend too much time these days on endless motherhood and work debates, anxiety attacks over the smallest triffle, rounds of e-mails about the latest "scare" of childhood, and criticizing their husbands rather than being caring partners and accepting that the husband/dad might just do things differently but equally well (or certainly well enough).

So, I guess I stand up for fathers out there and ask that moms, one day out of the year at least, leave off the critical remarks, the complaints, and the nagging, and let the man enjoy some peace.

Laura, I hope that you are not a perfect example. Because if it REALLY upsets you about notes laying around,you may find later on that you won't have to worry about them because the man who put them there will be long gone. Men put up with a lot but there is a point when men make a cold decision that enough is enough. Good luck.

A Fathers Day Gift That Benefits The Environment!

The ideal Father's Day gift: A C02 pressurized/refrigerated beer dispenser is good for the environment and saves multiple trips to the recycling bin with all those pesky aluminum cans and glass bottles! Reduces the deamnd on landfills from the cardboard packaging and any of the cans/bottles that dont make it into the recyling center. Also saves space in the fridge for all those leftovers from healthy meals your better half spent hours planning, economically acquiring, and preparing! Or for the extra Pizza you want to save for the next ladies night out!

Warning!!! Consumers still need to have a 30-pack on hand in case the keg runs out when the store is closed. You keep the reserves with the Dept of Homeland Security/Red Cross Disaster Preperedness Supplies: Water, Batteries, Canned Foods, batery operated radio... BEER.

Come on. By a show of hands, how many fathers here sit around all weekend drinking beer wearing "wife beater" t-shirts and watching NASCAR?

I'm looking at you Fathers of 2, 3, & 4.

Come on, fess up.

My wife have a 50-50 relationship. She spents half her life bringing garbage in through the front door, and I spend half my life taking the garbage out the backdoor.

"let the man enjoy some peace."

And that is the one thing that mothers and fathers share: they both just want some peace.

Hmmmm.

"How about writing one less paragraph and throwing away the note yourself. Seriously, the effort that you have expended worring about a little piece of paper is what kills relationships."

That little piece of paper is a tiny puzzle piece of all of the things that her husband [apparently] does not see that contributes to the "messy house". Sure, she can put the note in the trash can for him, but then she might as well do the other 999 things that he doesn't "see" either. He sees that the house is messy, but misses his contributions of the components of it.

Note story = analogy

Father's Day is supposed to be about how men are in their role as father, not husband. For all you ladies who are moaning about your husbands not helping around the house enough, my question is "Is your husband a good father?" If so, be very thankful for that. Don't take it for granted. Most men are far more involved in their childrens' lives than their own dads were, and they probably don't get near the recognition they deserve, because many women just seem to expect it. Well, I'm here to tell you that not all men take their role as father seriously, and once a child enters the equation, his most important role becomes that of father. So if he takes that seriously, who gives a damn whether he knows how to properly shop for groceries, or load the dishwasher, or do the laundry.

Father of 3, your wife is never going to get you a beer fridge. My wife either. Reason is that they are furniture. Wife's friends come over, she has to explain what the that thing with the tap sticking out of the top is. She can't claim that it's impressionist art and her friends will laugh at her.

Not that they arent fantastic. Before I moved in with my wife, my buddies and I had one in the group house. Full sized 50's style fridge, gutted, spray painted candy-apple red with 2 taps.

Damn, I miss that thing.

It seems to me that women really do need to take more responsibility for this alleged "men are too clueless to help out properly" situation.

Ladies, not all men are incapable of a successful trip to the grocery store. Accept that they might do things differently than you, and be happy that you have a balanced home life. Or go on being a control freak -- the choice is yours.

If the men in your lives are truly incompetent at basic home care, I can only imagine that there were signs that this was the case before you decided to marry and procreate with them. Did you think the guy who was a border-line jerk when you were dating would suddenly become Mr. Let Me Do the Dishes Tonight Honey Because You Look Tired once you had kids?

There are pigheaded men out there who give all the great men and fathers a bad rap. But, ladies, if they were all single they would die out, and we wouldn't have this problem anymore!

In the meantime, let's appreciate all that fathers do. In my house, that's an awful lot!

Marc,

You are fantastic!! Your comments were very incisive and real! Your wife, daughter and little monsters are lucky to have you.

Amen, Another Single Mom.

"In my house, we never take the other for granted."

Like the poster who wrote that, I also thank my husband for everything he does. At first, when we were dating, he would say, "Don't thank me, it is my obligation." (He's foreign.) I told him, "No, I want to have good manners. I am always going to thank you because I appreciate that you did that and I don't ever want you to think I don't appreciate the things that you do." After a while, he stopped telling me not to thank him and he started saying thank you to me also.

When I want him to do something, I ask. Maybe it's the same task all the time, like taking out the trash. The can is totally full and smelly, but he doesn't always notice. Yes, sometimes he doesn't want to do some things and occasionally I get miffed and nag. Example: "Your clothes are all over the bedroom! Pick them up!" but I still thank him when he does it, even if it's three days later. And I try not to do the same things I criticize him for, because I often catch myself doing that!

Communication is key. Expecting your spouse to do something but refusing to simply ask or have a discussion just leads to frustration and resentment. If a note was hanging on a cabinet, I'd just say, "Hey, can I throw this away?" Letting little things like that bother you can destroy so much time and potential happiness.

I think it was Garrison Keillor who wrote that the keys to a good marriage were, "Good sex, good conversation, and good manners." Seems like this is what most men AND women would appreciate.

Actually watching cars trun left for 500 miles doesnt do it for me, but the tank top undershirts are kinda comfy. I'd rather kepp on sleepin' in till 11. Then marathon Grand Theft Auto sesh, with beer and corn flakes for lunch. Everyweekend.

See - wrong demographic Show of Hands. I appreciate the try tho. Usually "honey do" list, youth athletics scouts etc dominate the w/e.

Sometimes the TV doesnt get turned on at all and I like it that way. Maybe I'll get to watch a world cup game. The Tivo has come in real handy for Sunday night catch up (fast fwd through the ads) if there was something we really wanted to watch.

Come on, guys, lay off Laura, she was just making the point that sometimes one spouse notices something small and the other doesn't. I thought the rest of her post was nice.

And, before you all go saying her thing about the note is such a female thing, in our household it's the total opposite. I'm TERRIBLE about throwing things away. I always just leave it on the counter and it drives him NUTS. He's the one who I am sure is thinking, "And I look at it and think, what, does [s]he think it's just going to get up and walk itself to the trash?" I try to pay more attention but honestly I just don't think about it, my mind is on other things. So it can go both ways.

Beer Fridges Rock: The kegerator/designated beer fridge (dbf for short) goes in the man cave. That way the missus don't have to explain nothing.

See, I think Laura was exactly right. Perry's blog was totally typical--he has his "jobs," and he does them. In Laura's house, she didn't make "put old notes in the trash" a specific job, so her husband doesn't do it. And who wants to have to make every last little thing a "job"? Then you're a "nag." Why can't men look at things more globally--what needs to get done around here to keep the house neat and the household running smoothly? Men seem to think they can do their jobs and be done and then relax. Women know that there are always little things to be done. And spending Saturday afternoon oiling hinges and tightening loose screws is not the same as paying attention to the house and the family 24/7.

For the guy reorganizing his wife's grocery list: Try giving your wife a grocery list template sequenced in the way you like it, i.e., by the way things are laid out in the store.

The list can contain items that you buy regularly, which your wife can circle if you need to get them on a particular trip, and blanks to fill in for other items. In addition to providing an organizing device, the list can serve as a reminder to check on your supply of things you buy regularly.

Have seen this work in a couple of households.

"For the guy reorganizing his wife's grocery list: Try giving your wife a grocery list template sequenced in the way you like it, i.e., by the way things are laid out in the store."

THS, we do that for Costco since there are a finite number of things we buy there (but the list has blanks for extras).

The grocery store has too many posibilities (new recipe, etc) for a template. Mind you, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that I like it one way and she doesn't "get it". Instead of it being a "problem" in the relationship, I just remake the list. Takes me 5 minutes at home but saves time and shoe leather at the store.

boy, Father of 4 sounds like a real gem, giving his young daughters(probably too young to take proper care of an animal) kittens and not getting them neutured, so the cats spawn too many more cats, letting a 2 year old have fun 'chucking around' the kittens? then giving one of them to a neighbor with a boa constrictor???? Bad enough it sounds like Leslie's family only cleaned the litter box once a week-- so much for teaching children kindness and responsibility for the helpless creatures of the world. I bet father of 4's son grows up think he can 'chuck around' other kids or later, women. Is no one else bothered by the cavalier attitude toward animals? or is kindness and respect reserved only for humans?

It's not about you anymore. It's about your wife and kids. Live to serve. You will win over your spouse with a selfless attitude.

Does any marriage flourish when a spouse demands his/her rights? Looks out for self only?

Take a break once in a while. Take the kids fishing.

Rita, your comments about Father of 4 can't really be serious? Because he certainly isn't.

Father of 4 I still love ya. And BTW, my cat is lucky to get the box done once a week.

"Ladies, not all men are incapable of a successful trip to the grocery store. "

curious new mom - WRONG WRONG WRONG!!

Every man (who is literate) is capable of a successful trip the grocery store. It all depends on how you define "successful".

If successful trip is getting everything on the list, every man is capable of doing that.

If a successful trip involves reading you mind (i.e. he got iceburg lettuce but you wanted green-leaf lettuce and you only wrote 'lettuce'), than no, it wasn't successful but THAT'S YOUR FAULT. No human can read somebody else's mind.

If you want specific things, be specific when you make the list. If you write "baby food" and he brings home baby food, it's a success. If you wanted organic, low-sodium green beans and they aren't in the bag, your list was lacking.

For anyone who thinks this is a male-female issue, you're totally off base. We've got the same dynamic going on and we're both female. I think she worries way too much about some stuff, she thinks I worry about other things that are unimportant. This is what happens when you put two individuals in the same household. If you let it and don't ascribe it to gender (which makes conflict unsolveable, I think) then it's easier to sort out.

I'll admit that the "clueless" phrase set my teeth on edge (if you know you are clueless, then why not gain a clue?). Then I thought about it and realized that I am clueless--although possibly teachable--about some things that important to her because I am NOT HER. And we are never going to prioritize in exactly the same way for that reason.

I think we'd BOTH like a red beer fridge, though.

It's fun when a newbie starts reading Father of 4.

To know him is to...um...um...know him.

I think Perry has a huge point when he talks about the burden of being the primary breadwinner. Perhaps it isn't as true now as it was for our parents but the sense of responsibility to care for the family is innate as well as the angst about being able to do it well.

Rita, I think most of just know Father of 4 talks a tough game but he's really a total sweetie.

Also, just wanted to agree with those who say take nothing for granted, enjoy your spouse, and just ask for what you need. My husband is a gem and a wonderful father. We each say thank you and I love you all the time, and neither of us feels unappreciated. We each have things that we're more aware of in the house, like Laura said, but I think we both know that's true, so it doesn't cause resentment. And if we need something done, we ask for it. It's nice.

Thanks to all you dads and hubbies who are doing your best and changing the role of men! And especially you, Marc, you made some really nice points.

Show of Hands, I've got my hand half raised. I like to drink beer and except for American Idol , the TV stays off. On weekends, I kick the kids outside and enjoy a few cold ones on the deck. It's what I call "Taking care of the kids". I never have, and never will, drive one of our children to a soccer game or birthday party. That's my wife's job, and it's what she calls "taking care of the kids".
The keg fridge is a great idea, and The shed is the perfect place to store this type of furnature.

Hey, Father of 2 -- I don't think the point of my post came across, so I'm not sure how to react to your statement.

I will attempt this clarification: I think men are perfectly capable of going to the grocery store. My husband does so on a regular basis, and most often using the list he constructed -- no mind-reading necessary.

How did I know he was capable of this? Because he already knew how to shop/cook when I met him. It never occurred to me that he would suddenly require remedial classes in grocery procurement once we got married.

Father of 4 I still love ya. And BTW, my cat is lucky to get the box done once a week.

why bother to have a cat if you feel this way?

I read my wife's mind. Like Kurtz cruisin up the Mekong I tremble at what I find, but I do get the pre-washed mixed greens and not the iceberg. The horror, the horror...

Summit Beer Dispenser. Tap handles available on ebay. No excuses. It is to save the planet.

Rita. We all need sensitivity training and should be turned in to the thought police for abusing kittens and propogating destructive sexist stereotypes. Sorry, My fault. You're right. God be merciful upon my soul.

Laura I see your point. Mess by a thousand cuts eh?

Marc, be nice to the dog just in case there's a bump in the road.

Don't go changin' to try and please me...

ShowofHands wrote: "Come on. By a show of hands, how many fathers here sit around all weekend drinking beer wearing "wife beater" t-shirts and watching NASCAR?

I'm looking at you Fathers of 2, 3, & 4.

Come on, fess up."

What about shirtless watching soccer all day while drinking whisky? Does that count?

And someone else wrote about their husband having pink underclothes as a result of doing laundry themselves and how he doesn't care. Why should he? You're the only other person who sees it. If he did get upset, that's cause for worry.

curious new mom, I guess I didn't get your point (the first post). I get it now. :)

Two Things:

1) Self cleaning litterbox, worth $100, really worth $10,000 in lack of throat drops for screaming matches. All the fights we haven't had since we bought it. Random plug: Last weekend was Memorial Day (aka Dump the dog at the pound, go to the beach day) a similar phenomenon to Labor day (aka the kids had a dog this summer, they watched the miracle of life, and now its time for them to go back to school, and learn about responsibility so we're dumping the dog and the untrained puppies day) go see if your local rescue neesd help. A lot of them would kill for help writing grants, web page help, or leash holders if you can't foster.

2) Single Moms--we take my mom out for Father's day since she did both roles for me when I was growing up. I'm sad my dad died when i was 3, but really, Mom has been nothing short of amazing.

-l.

Jacknut, you forget the guys in the locker room(s) will see the pink undies. But they are guys - they will know why.

As for "Show of Hands", I'm not going to dignify the comment with a response - or did I just do that?

curious new mom, it thinking it over, my original post wasn't directed at you. It is directed at the women out there who feel men can't go to the grocery store successfully.

I stand by my original statement that all men are capable. All men can buy what is written on the list (other than 'up doc'). If it is "wrong", it is the result of an incomplete list.

Wow. I am really lucky I had a dad who was so great at being a fully participating co-parent.

My siblings and I all are in our thirties now, but we have fond memories of folding laundry with our dad while watching basketball games on TV; having him coach our teams in elementary school and junior high; getting ready for school each morning with Dad as hairdresser (when we sisters were still little), backpack finder, and primary homework-checker. He wasn't the fanciest cook, but he prepared a good share of the meals each week as well. The rest of the housework we all did as a family: all five of us dusting, vacuuming, and organizing each weekend. I'm telling you: this guy even served as the sole chaperone and host of my 10th birthday party.

And there really didn't seem to be a big deal made of any of this. I never heard him asking for more credit or seeking more praise. He loved being with his kids, he respected his wife and her efforts, and never in his life had he expected anyone to do much for him. I think he'd find appalling any kind of prideful ignorance about the hard work done around the house by my mom.

I am so lucky to have had a father who wasn't clueless. He was an integral part of the functioning of our family.

One poster mentioned men not thinking of taking care of chores or housework in a global sense (ala 24/7) and just trying to get their chores done... When I was 8 it was just me and my dad together for a year, so I'm used to seeing a male figure actually do everything in the house, but whether your a man or woman, you gotta draw the line somewhere. The to-do list can always be endless (at no point in time will everything be clean, fixed, prepared, etc.), so you need to carve out family time or personal space (or your candy apple red enviromentally friendly kegerator).

Balance. Moderation. Not too sexy as ideas go, but what don't they apply to?

Covert grocery store strike missions are extremely complicated and require intensive intelligence briefings pre- and post-trip. The enemy will frequently camouflage necessary targets, relabel foot soldiers, and force one-of-a-kind items underground in hopes of demoralizing the modern male soldier. It is unclear at this time whether the generic mitilia is working hand in hand with the brandname warlords, but neither is an ally...

Jacknut One time my wife packed a pink towel in my gymbag as I went off to work and I didn't notice until it was time to take a shower. Boy did I make sure I didn't drop the bar of soap that day.
Rita, If you're miffed about the kitten diddie, this one will probably really get you steamed:
When I walk to the 7-eleven with my kids for a beer run, my 3 year old will run to the back of the store, pick out my favorite beer and hand it to me at the counter. This infuriates my wife, but I'm actually really proud of the little stinker. I reward him with a pat on the head and he gets to pick out his favorite piece of candy.
Now this is the cool part:
The cats walk with us and wait outside the store until we are done.

One other thing about the grocery list:

DO NOT assume that just because you have brought home the same type of lettuce for 17 years that we men know that. If you want something specific ASK FOR IT by name. Do not say "laundry detergent" when you mean "Seventh Generation non-petroleum based laundry soap in the 108 wash bottle."

There's a reason why we don't say "beer" when you ask what we want from the store. We say "A six-pack of Guinness draught in the can." We know that if we just say "beer" you'll get to the beer aisle and end up getting something we don't want.

Now some of you women may think we have an obligation to remember that you bring home 1 head of Boston Lettuce and 1 bunch of spinach every week. We men do not have any such obligation. If you attempt to impose that on us, be prepared to learn the statistics for the entire Nationals lineup, complete with WHIP ratios for the minor league pitching staff, in case of an emergency callup.

Hey, I have a novel idea. If you don't want to clean the litter box, don't. Maybe get rid of the cat or at least don't bother feeding it. Forget all the small repairs around the house. They're not really needed. Don't take the trash out either.

Here's the deal. Your wife won't do these items either. She also won't cook dinner, wash clothes, clean the house, pay bills or keep track of the kids. This stuff isn't really important.

Hey, Peapod probably could even deliver more beer when the two of you finish the existing stash, so that neither of you will have to exert any effort to go get more.

Perry, thanks for your article. I agree with what you said on many points. However, my experience is that Dad's get credit for things that I do all the time.

"What a nice husband for picking up the baby after work!" Um, no one says what a great mom I am when I pick up the baby after work. Or take him for a walk, or run errands with him.

You are right because dad's didn't do this before, that it seems like Superdad now, but if you boil it down, not exactly heroics.

"If it is "wrong", it is the result of an incomplete list." F o 2

HAHAHAH, so naive.

You should know by now that it is not an issue of accounatbility. That modification of the list was obvious! Pay attention to body language, use that esp - and if in doubt call home and ask! This has been and will be your fault. Wasnt there some previous post where Leslie recounted just such a phone call by a veteran husband surrogate shopper. Crisis defused - but blog ignited.

I get to take out the trash and cat poop, do the laundry and the grocery shopping, cook and clean and be the sole support of my child (no child support, ex-hubby left the country). I'm the only person who can stay home with my daughter when she is ill.

And father's day is never fun for a kid whose dad moved to the other side of the world; I'll take her to a movie on Sunday.

So, when you are irritated with your husband/wife not pulling his/her weight, just remember there are those of us who pull all the weight. Try to let the little things slide.

And happy father's day to all the wonderful dads on the board (some of you regulars really make me smile). I hope you are all appreciated and loved.

To anonymous poster at 12:32pm, I would respond but Jacknut said is so well at 12:25pm.

To Jacknut, I say "AMEN!!!!"

f of 4:
how do you get the cats to wait outside? and my son has trouble discerning between regular guinness and draught...

Folding laundry while watching sports is one of the best schemes out there. Supervising the kids at the town pool on Saturday comes in a close second for spectator sports while fulfilling fatherly duties. "She wore an itsy bitsy yellow polka dot..." Man! Do they get younger every year or am I just gettin' old?

Note to self: buy sunglasses and dont stare - it's rude. When staring keep mouth closed so as not to embarass children, set bad example for son and daughters...

Oh God. I have daughters!

"There's a reason why we don't say "beer" when you ask what we want from the store. We say "A six-pack of Guinness draught in the can." We know that if we just say "beer" you'll get to the beer aisle and end up getting something we don't want."

Ah, but sadly that doesn't always work. I tried that with my former SO; I'd say, "Hey, going to the store -- what do you want?" He'd say, "Beer." I'd reply, "Not specific enough -- what are you in the mood for?" He'd say "Anything". I would then rattle off a few I knew he'd like and he'd say, "Any of those are good." I would then go out and procure a variety from the last list. He'd look at them when I got home and say, "Wow -- this is good... but I'm really in the mood for this other beer. I think I'll go get a growler in a few minutes."

CentrevilleMom, I can see why your former SO is "former".

It's a simple thing. If the brand matters, tell the other person. If you don't, deal with the results and don't whine.

If the brand doesn't matter, tell the other person. When you don't like what you got, deal with the results and don't whine.

Father of 3 loved your 8:29 am post. Much as Perry drives me nuts sometimes because he lacks my maternal instincts and obsessive ability to keep the closet door closed so that the cats stay out, I do love that he's a guy. Sure am glad he didn't sign up to be a woman either. Although men drive me crazy at times women sure do too.

And Perry, just to be up front, I'm never taking back the cat poop job. I could get pregnant anytime and cat feces are very dangerous to an unborn baby's health...

I empathize with the painful angst being expressed by a lot of the women here. My husband is an amazing person, brilliant and intensely hardworking. He runs a small company, and works late into the night solving math problems and handling all the intellectual and management aspects of his team. He also frequently cooks and sees our son to bed with books and play. He takes vital time out from his work to handle issues that arise with daily life. But he does literally nothing around the house without a request. Given his herculean efforts, I feel like a jerk for being upset about this, and indeed my level of upsetness has diminished over time as I have accepted the situation, although tensions surface from time to time, e.g. now following the birth of baby#2. In comparison with what we are both trying to do with our work, I fully appreciate that many of these household things are trivial and annoying, but the fact is that if our lives are to maintain any component of external, rather than mental, aesthetic these things have to be done. Now, I am a university professor, trying to get tenure, supervise the projects of five lab members, get papers written, and write grants. In some sense my deadlines are "softer" than my husband's, and I definitely don't have the physical stamina for work that he does so I am always in bed earlier and do considerably more putzing around (like reading this blog :-)). Still, I am pretty bummed about carrying the sole responsibility for our home life, in all its social, medical and organizational aspects (including all the notes left on doors, boxes from unpacked equipment that will stay exactly where they were opened for years, etc etc), and living with the constant mental buzz that this involves. As many of you know, most of us women can't really switch that off even if we wanted to, so there's some part of this that is a nonnegotiable division of roles. But I really hate, loathe and detest being a nag; it kills me. I keep "lowering the bar": just the trash, I have said, for the past five years; JUST take out the trash on trash day without being reminded. But that has so far never once happened, to my recollection. Dear husband never knows what day of the week it is. It does mystify me that someone can churn out patents and run a company yet not know when it's recycle day. He would probably argue that that's exactly how it is possible.

Ah husbands. We do love, admire and appreciate you. And by gum, single parents, I can't imagine the difficulty of doing this parent and work thing alone. A very sincere happy Father's Day to all of you. Let's keep muddling along as best we can.

To my husband, thanks for being a great dad. You show them adventure and risk-taking when I can't let go (fear of hurt children). You give them unconditional love. You work to provide for them. You are honest and reliable. You admit mistakes if you make them. You are a role model for what they should look for in a man before they marry.

To all the other dads, HAPPY FATHERS DAY

To argh,
Your post makes me want to cry, and never get married.

"And Perry, just to be up front, I'm never taking back the cat poop job. I could get pregnant anytime and cat feces are very dangerous to an unborn baby's health..."

I've been snickering at this concept of pregnancy = stability of nitroglycerin. "Look out, man -- one pothole and *BOOM*! Another college savings account to open!" :)

Okay, I have another little tidbit my wife and I refer to...

One day a man is out working on the car and finally fixes the brakes/transmission/whatever, he walks inside and sees his wife scrubbing the tub. He says, "Honey, let's go for a quick ride!"

So what happens, well of course the wife gets pissed because he doesn't appreciate her scrubbing the tub and keeping the house cleaned and he gets the brunt of her frustration. All the while he's thinking, geeze I just spent three hours I could be watching football fixing the car so she'll be safe.

Hello, they were both trying to do something for the other, and neither realized it.

So instead of complaining about things, my wife and I just say Car/tub and we step back and look at things a little differently.

BTW wives don't ever tell your husband he cleans the bathroom wrong. Or it will be your job for three years until you come to him nicely and say, "Honey, I don't care how you clean the bathrooms, I just need help. But can I show you a few secrets?"

I can clean a bathroom in 12 minutes without 500 gallons of water now, and yes I was doing it wrong. But who cares when you attack someone in a nagging way.

Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's, and to all the Mom's all I ask is give him some "loving" let him sleep in and appreciate the good he does. Because let's be honest, cars are more important than tubs. :)

....I remember it was a Fridgidaire. Had one of those long, horizontal chrome handles. We used to keep it in the kitchen. It was like a member of the family. I'm tearing up over here....

Marc, I don't know why, but the cats seem particuarlly fond of my son that used to chuck them around. We would walk around the block, and the cats would follow. One day, we had to cross rt. 50 and we were afraid the cats would try to cross with us and make road pizza. the kids wanted to go back home, but I promised them if one of them died, I would replace it with a new kitten. We went for it, the cats stayed. They are a little smarter than I thought, the cats i mean, they waited for hours until we crossed over the highway to go back home.

My husband cooks. Only makes sense that he shops. Still trying to break him of the notion that *I* should make the grocery list, esp. when he knows how many eggs and the exact quantity of milk remianing. On the other hand, he calls me from the grocery store to ask what I'd like...

He is very good at the "big picture" stuff, but I am the one left to execute the minutiae, schlep the kids, call and deal with contractors, do home repairs, yardwork, etc.

So what can moms and dads do to teach their sons about "getting a clue"? My teenage sons already do lots of chores, generally without grumbling. It's teaching that big picture, coupled with an appreciation for the details, that I'm grappling with. (I want my future DILs to adore me! :*)) One of my kids is going away to a summer program for six weeks, and I hope he gains some common sense and a sense of reality while he's there!

I think we dads have said many times that we don't expect to be thanked for the things we do that are not noticed. It is just something we do to allow the rest of the household to run more smoothly. That's really what the honey-do list is all about. Do I have to patch the cracks in the wall? No. But the house doesn't look as nice to visitors if it is there. Do I have to change the oil in the car? No. But someone has to eventually or the car will stop and my wife won't be able to leave the neighborhood. And I like to save the $30 on the oil change. Do I have to mow the lawn? No. But the homeowner's association will fine us if I don't and my wife doesn't like our house looking like we are "trash".

I'm the packer. I load the dishwasher, car, freezer, attic, garage, and closets. I get at least a third more stuff in those items than my wife does. I help show her that, no, the printer is not broken. She just pushed this lever up a little so that it is expecting the paper in a different slot. And the reason we get white spots on our clothes is because she is either putting too much softener in the mix or she is putting a fabric sheet onto hot clothes. She claims every appliance in our house is broken in some way or another until I show her how to use it.

Remember we dads are like BASF. We don't think of things the family needs. We help make the things the family needs easier to do.

And to lovedbeingamombut who wants to know if she should get a Father's Day card: YES, you should. Somewhere recently I read about a man who was a single parent and his daughter always gave him a mother's day and father's day card. She missed mother's day one year and it turned out that was the one he was more proud of. You GO, lovedbeingamombut. Happy Father's Day to you!

You see, Father of 4 has justed proved what I always KNEW about cats. They are smart. And they are laughing at you for taking out their poop.

Just don't do it, Perry! They'll clean up after themselves when they can't stand the stink any longer. It's a battle of wills, just like on "SuperNanny" (or whatever that show is called).

On the other hand, whose cat is it, Perry? I mean, if it's a "family" cat, did you get it specifically on a child's request? Did Leslie bring it home one day from a neighbor's extras? How old are your kids? Isn't it time they learned cat care?

Hooray for dads! Mine passed when I was 15 and I tend to ignore Father's Day, but I think this year I will thank my mom for carrying on so well after his sudden death and remember all the good things dad did for me and taught me when he was around.

To: Perry & Father of 3 & Father of 4 , you guys are my heroes !! Is there anybody else getting this much entertainment out of this ? All of you who wonder what the TRUTH about life is , download and print out & post on your walls their post and follow themn like commandments and i promise , on my wife and cildrens lives , you will be HAPPY ! If you are already happy , please disregard ...

Many of the women on this blog are kind and thoughtful. But for some reason there are a whole lot shrews here who are filled with hate and bile.

Please do your husband a favor: Leave. Get a divorce. Whatever, just go away. He doesn't deserve this b.s.

And if you're too spiteful to do it for him (and some of the comments make it sound like you are), then think of it as a gift for yourself.

After all, why would you want to stay with a person that is so vile?

Sheesh.

"We work long hours, longer than any previous generation of fathers." What historian gave him that lie, or should I more accurately call it bs?! Or does this statement mark the beginning of his dramatization of how underappreciated he is? I guess by calling himself clueless, he was trying to exhibit humility- however false it may be. Hopefully, he will one day realize that no one on this planet gets a parade every single day that they do what they normally do on a regular basis- man, woman, or child. And this hardly means that they are not appreciated. You don't buy a diamond ring for your wife every time she cooks dinner, but that doesn't mean you don't enjoy eating. Oh, and I was not going to let go unnoticed the statement in the beginning that describes a wife's most salient function. Thanks.

Please forgive the grammar in last post , combination of clueless & beer ....

Woa, "dep"! I totally missed that! And I think Perry was listing things he's not getting enough of.

How fascinating that "Sickened Husband" was followed by "dcp" by way of example. So glad to not be married to the mean crazy lady.

Thanks, Perry. It's nice to see an alternate viewpoint on here every once in a while that I don't have to dig through the comments to find. I'll say that I agree with the sentiment behind a lot of what you said.

I'm the primary breadwinner in our house too. My wife does some contract work about 1 day a week, and it's pretty much enough to pay for day care, which allows her to both work once in a while and have a day at home without the Peanut so she can get some things done. My job is about an hour away from home, so my days are pretty long, and when I get home I'm often tired and just want to crash in front of the computer or the TV, spend some time with my daughter, and generally relax before I go to bed to get up and do it all over again the next day.

It's not that I don't appreciate that being home with her all day is not relaxing for my wife. It's not that I don't understand that there's a lot of housework to be done and she's working on it as much as she can. It's just that when I come home at the end of the day and see the dishes i