I can hardly wait to see what people will write about this today, which will range from people eager to applaud the decision to stay home to appauled at the loss of careers. For me, though, this is just more interesting commentary to think about which underlines why this is an important topic. It's very hard (and very personal) to find balance, and there is no one size fits all.

I agree with VA Mom, and would like to add my fervent wish that people play well with others today.

I've just returned to part-time work after being a SAHM for 3 1/2 years. My new job is helping me find the balance I was missing when I was at home with my children 24/7. Before, I felt like I was constantly thinking of ways to take a break from them, or counting the hours until my husband got home from work, but the breaks I did take were never enough. The fact is, I was burned out. I'm much better now. We're still transitioning, but the kids seem to be doing really well, and even though it's a bit more stressful sometimes, I think it'll be okay.

I will say one thing though -- I never met a SAHM who was dying to go back to work (or at least would admit it), but I've met a lot of working moms who were dying to stay at home. (Reminds me of something a friend of mine said about never meeting a writer who wanted to be something else but meeting a lot of people who want to be writers.) I am interested in why this is and hope that this discussion today will shed some light on the subject.

Why is it always portayed as one extreme or the other.....either you have to work 60+ hours a week with travel or quit entirely and stay home? Can't anyone just work a conventional full-time 40 hour week (both mom and dad)? The worst are women who quit these jobs (which are really the equavalent of one and a half or two jobs) and then talk about how bad it was for their family when they worked and how much better it is that they are home. Well, DUH, did you ever just think of working more normal hours? Yes, your career may slow down if you stop putting in all the above-and-beyond 'face time', but it won't slow nearly as much as it will if you quit altogether. Yes, yes I know that some jobs inherently have crazy hours, but let's face it, most jobs can be accomplished within a normal workweek, with rare exceptions for special projects or the occasional travel. I think some people's egos can't accept being anything short of the 'star' at work, so they would rather quit entirely (and become the star SAHM) instead of trying to work a balanced schedule.

Woah-WLS!!! It is so much more than that so lay off the people who work long hours. You may be right about some but most are stuck and have no choice (e.g., their bosses won't let them work less hours and if they do they are fired), especially with commuting in this area.

I have written in this blog about how I want to stay at home but can't afford it, even with all of the cost cutting efforts we have enacted (BTW-we drive old cars, live in an older home with a small mortgage, don't go out to eat, etc.) And, I work a 40-hour work week most of the time, but my commute is so crappy that it adds 15-20 hours a week, hence a 60-hour work week.

So, again, let's all play nice and stop being so darn judgemental.

I would LOVE to stay home with my kids (ages 11 & 14). I've never understood people who say they need to work for intellectual stimulation -- if I didn't spend my days reading policy papers and court opinions, I could read things I find more interesting (e.g. great literature). I'm also much to fried by evening to help with homework. I work because we need the money, and after years as a secretary I decided to go to law school because if I had to work, I at least wanted a job with some intellectual component, decent salary and respect. But if my husband got a big promotion or we suddenly got an unexpected inheritance, I'd be outta here in a New York minute.

I was never a SAHM, but I will say that I was dying to go back to work during maternity leave. Even in those three months, I felt like I had lost part of myself. I was frustrated and cranky and hated being home.

I work, and I am happy that my daughter goes to daycare and gets to play and have fun and learn from people that can teach her something my husband and I can't. For example, one of her caregivers speaks nothing but spanish to her - and she understands her perfectly, as well as she understands us when we speak english to her. She would not get that at home.

I would be one of those mothers constantly watching the clock, waiting for my husband to return so I could get my break. As it is now, I go home excited to be with my daughter and I cherish the time we spend together - and so does she.

Actually mls has a point. Maybe it could have been said more politely so that it didn't set off "Soon to be Mom". The point is, if someone has a job/career that is very time comsuming, takes you away from home for weeks at a time, etc, then an alternative could be finding a job that is less stressful/time-consuming. Some women opt to work part-time in their fields, others change from the private sector to government, others change fields. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Especially since kids eventually go to school. What do you do then? Sit at home and get fat? Reminds me of the NY Times magazine story a few years ago of NYC women who didn't work b/c they needed their 3 hour a day workouts to look good. :-) Another discussion. They had nannies so they could do the 3 hour workouts.

Working MomX says: "I never met a SAHM who was dying to go back to work (or at least would admit it), but I've met a lot of working moms who were dying to stay at home."

Actually, while some working women would say they are "dying" to stay at home, so would working men. I don't think most mean it. When you get down to it, most of these working people would go nuts being at home 24/7. It's hard work being with the kids ALL of the time. I give stay at home mothers credit. I have found that many educated stay at homes do think about and sometimes envy women who do retain their careers. It's the "grass is greener" syndrome for both "sides". It's really hard to be educated, have a career, have aspirations and then to decide to stay home. For many of us, our careers are our identities.

The only times I thought about "staying at home" was when I hated my job. When I've had a fulfilling job, I don't think about that. I'm happier, my kids are happier, etc. It was my husband who had one of those private law firm jobs who got off that track and now works a 9-5 job. He couldn't stand having to work 24/7 and much of that time was "face-time". There are better alternatives than just quitting altogether.

Hey Jolie, My husband and I argued about who got to go back to work first (kidding around). I thought he should take the maternity leave! I was ready to go back to work after a few days. Those first few months suck. The lack of sleep, the round the clock feeds. I don't miss that.

I agree. My husband is gone from 8 to 6 and I can't imagine spending that much time with two little kids day in and day out. On weekends and holidays we go to the park, go to the zoo, go to the pool, read books, do puzzles, color, and play trains, but (good lord!) I could not do that 10 hours a day every day. I get bored after 30 minutes at the park! I specifically chose a career that would let me work on lots of different projects and with different clients, because I like learning new things and variety. I don't like routines, so I don't think I'd be very successful as a SAHM. When I'm stressed because my clients are a PITA or I have to travel a lot or whatever, I never think "maybe I should stay home," which seems to be the default many women turn to. I tend to think "what other kind of job could I get" or "how can I lobby for reduced hours without getting stuck with the crummy projects."

Whoops, that was to Jolie, not by Jolie.

Six months ago I left a corporate career to freelance and be a part-time Mom to my autistic stepson. I have been told that I have given up "so much"...to which I say, "Thank goodness!" I gave up sleepless nights and the endless stress that comes from working in a corporate environment. I gave up having to take vacation to go to the doctor and trying to squeeze a week's worth of errands into my lunch hour. I have gained a centeredness and assurance that I am in the right place for myself and my family at this time. One of the greatest gifts I have gained from this experience is that I now think in terms of "my life" rather than "my career".

toJolie: I actually recently changed jobs because I found myself trying to think of a way I could quit and just stay home. But the fact is, I am not wired to be a SAHM. I worked hard to get where I am in my career AND my family life, and I don't think I should have to give either of those up. I won't say my career defines who I am, because it doesn't, but it is definitely an aspect of who I am and its a part I don't think I should have to lose just to be considered a successful mother as well. I want it all!

I believe that you have to find the right balance for you and your family. When I grew up, everyone worked so, the thought of being a SAHM never crossed my mind. However, I have had the opportunity to be a SAHM twice and both times I returned to work. As long as I have the flexibility to take off when my kids are sick or have an early practice, out of school, etc, without having to take vacation at every turn, I will continue to work.

I don't judge, just support.

I am soooooooooo wired to be a SAHM. Working right now is sucking out my soul. Doesn't help that (a) I know I have to be here b/c my husband is out of work and the bills have to be paid somehow (b) I am NOT intellectually stimulated here (c) I don't have many close coworkers so it's not like I'd miss the company of adults if/when I quit and (d) even though my daughter is already 6 months old, it RIPS MY HEART OUT EVERY SINGLE DAY that I have to leave her to come to this job.

I say "more power to ya" to the mothers who are satisfied by their careers. And to those who feel they need to work and can't afford to stay home, I hope you can get into a job that satisfies you and isn't something you loathe despite knowing it's the only way to pay the bills.

And to those with the power careers who insist they have to work a bajillion hours a week or else they'll get fired yet still find time to complain about how much they are missing their children, to you, please find more balance in your. It's ok if you decide you want to work those hours and at that level/pace, fine. Go for it. But do not complain about missing time with your children. Its a choice we all have, in some way or another, and if you are still missing your kids and wishing you could spend more time with them, then perhaps you need to look beyond yourself (dare I say your ego?) and rethink those choices.

My mother-in-law read my wife the riot act this weekend when she found out my wife intends to work after having a baby. MIL was aghast that she wasn't going to be a SAHM, and told my wife in no uncertain terms she would regret that decision every day of her life as a mom.

My wife's response was that this was the only way we could afford having a child, and like Jolie said earlier, needed something more stimulating than sitting in a park watching kids play all day. Needless to say, wife and MIL aren't on good speaking terms on this subject now!

I was a SAHM for 3 years, while my husband was working 60+ weeks and we lived in a sprawling, unfriendly suburb. I was unhappy and lonely a lot of the time. Those were really hard years.

Now we've moved to an intentionally friendly neighborhood in a small town, and I'm the one working while my husband stays at home with the kids. While I am SO much happier than when I stayed home, I think I would be even happier as a SAHM in this situation. There are a lot of wonderful, interesting people around to talk to, even during the day, and the kids are easier now that they have lots of other kids to play with. Plus, I'm working 1/2 the hours that my husband did and I'm able to be much more help than he was.

Anyway, sometimes the work/at home situation is dependent on other elements of your life-- like long commutes, the community you live in, etc. For me the issue wasn't being a SAHM, but circumstances that I had that made it so hard.

I'm a young professional woman living in DC. I've already decided that I don't want children because I love my job so much (and love working so much) that I'm not interested in having any distractions. I can't imagine staying home with children and still feeling like I'm stimulated every day -- I need adult contact, adult challenges and adult discussions. It's a shame that it has to be one or the other but I really think it does -- I'm already exhausted (but happily so) from working obscene hours and I would never want to give that up or slow it down for kids. Maybe if more men were willing to step up and stay home, or even do their fair share, it would be easier.

Ladies, you have no idea how helpful it is for me to read these postings! For a long time, I felt like I was *the only one* struggling with the decision to stay home, not stay home, look for a new job, etc. Staying at home is a tough decision to make no matter how much you identify or do not identify with your career path. And I have to say, there are times I thoroughly resent HAVING to make these decisions. Sexist or not, I maintain that most men do NOT have to choose between working and parenting, so why should I (or any woman) have to choose?? To me, it's like asking okay, you have to lose an arm or a leg. What will it be? And why should I be judged more because I am a woman making that choice? WHAH!!! (Whine...whine) It's not fair!

To j -- you are right (in my humble opinion) -- if you choose to work a bizillion hours - for whatever reason (and there are people that would say I work a bizillion hours) then that is your choice, dont rip yourself apart because you miss your kids. Some people complain to hear themselves complain (we all do that sometimes and that is ok) but if you really are miserable -- do something about it -- life is too short

To John -- My MIL did the same thing (but I was 9 months pregnant and very emotional) -- my husband took her aside and explained (in a very stern waay -- but nicely) how this was unacceptable behavior -- we did not ask for her opinion (although we have since had great talks about it) and this would not be tolerated. We are all so close now its funny. I really respected my husband for doing that -- he put his family first and I needed that from him

I never met a SAHM who was dying to go back to work (or at least would admit it), but I've met a lot of working moms who were dying to stay at home."

That's because if you are SAHP who is dying to go back to work -- you probably can and will. If you are a WOHP who is dying to stay home but you aren't staying home, it's probably because you feel you can't manage it financially. Doesn't seem to be much of a mystery to me.

"Follow your heart." I was lucky enough to have a husband who makes enough money that I could do that, but I didn't know what my heart wanted for a year or two after we adopted our daughter -- a time when I had loads of time to think about it. I had spent 20+ years in broadcasting and the law, working my up the ladder and I was totally defined by my work. Today, having found my way back to writing, I still struggle every day with the right balance of time with my six-year-old daughter and work, and struggle with my Admiral Stockdale moments -- Who am I? What am I doing here?

Motherhood constantly encroaches on my "professional" time and vice versa. My hope is to find a definition of "me" in the not-too-distant future that doesn't completely rely on my profession or the sum of my 1099's at the end of the year. I'd like to find and talk to a woman who has found that identity that doesn't rely solely on motherhood and/or job.

http://punditmom1.blogspot.com

This topic retains a seemingly unbridgable gap, rather like me of the abortion debate.

Both sides have a fairly defensible position, and I suspect few minds are changed through dialogue.

My two thoughts are the need to continually seek to define meaningful work with alternative schedules, and maybe one day even reach a Holy Grail on saying that either sex could adequately be a SAH care giver.

To many even this day and age still look on a man as a little off or weird for considering such an option. The idea of SAH Dad hosting a playgroup or watching other's kids in turn is subtly looked on (never spoken out loud, of course) as a risk for being a potential child sex abuser. That is unfortunate and totally unfair, but deep down it is the feeling that many hold. Enlightened or not, many of you must admit the truth of this in society at large.

When men or women can equally be considered a SAH parent and not be viewed as suspect, then we know we will finally have made some progress...with the bonus that women will truly have more options. And men too, obviously. Because we men don't get the luxury of even having this debate.

Oops..."rather like me" should have been
"to me rather like that".

Also, thired paragrah "To" = "Too"

Sorry...in a hurry this morning.

Having been a SAHM for three years when my older two children were young and a WOHM after that and following the birth of my third child, I am on of those who needs to work. But, I still struggle to find the work-family balance. I went to law school when the first two children were small so I didn't want to give up my new independence and career when the third arrived. But, life as a litigation associate did mean lots of hours and at least one day each weekend in the office - and this wasn't in a big city environment. So, when the opportunity arose, I took a job as in house counsel and work a nice, normal 40 hour week now. Not a single weekend day since I started this job. It is my dream job? No. But it does let me balance work and family so much better. My children are now 12, 10 and 4 and life goes so fast. If I need to work more or find something else that would excite me more but require longer houses, I will. But, I can wait until the children are older - even in college. This time with them is fleeting and I love it that I can work from 7 to 4 and be home when the kids are home in the afternoons. Balance for me is an ongoing process but this feels right for now. My husband works a pretty standard 40 hour week too but he travels more. We share most of the children and household tasks almost 50/50. This works for us - but I also know that things can change and what's right now may not be right down the road. I think the important thing is to remain flexible and know that you can change things to make it work when you need to.

What do you do with a cranky baby?
What do you do with a cranky baby?
What do you do with a cranky baby early in the morning?

... put him in bed with the sleeping daddy
... walk him outside to awake the neighbors

I think too much is placed on mom in our society. My husband and I both plan to work (a normal 40-45 hours a week). We both have graduate degrees and want to work. I feel a father who is present and active in a child's life is just as important.

Plus, I feel it is very important to contribute financially to my family's well being. Personally, I feel it is unfair to men to place all of the financial burden. If I was a guy, I would resent my wife staying home while I was responsible for all the bills, including her student loan!

---Ladies, you have no idea how helpful it is for me to read these postings!---

Forgive me....that should be LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. : )

To Texas Dad: That may be the way it is in TX (and if so, that's really too bad), but I don't see that here in the DC metro area. Or in the Raleigh area where we used to live. Maybe YOU think that way but I wouldn;t say that most people do. You'll always have the rigid, uptight (i.e., conservative) people that fall into gender streotyping, but I don't get the sense that it's widespread here.

to Maria:

What's odd about MIL's reaction is when my wife informed her about our intent to start a family, MIL could have cared less by the amount of interest she showed. MIL is retired and single now, and she's discussed moving to be closer to us (she's in another state), so my wife figured she would jump at the excuse to move (see daughter and grandchild more often).

Nah; total disinterest, and now this blow up. FWIW, I intend to take the maximum amount of leave time allowed by my office once we have a baby to help my wife, and since I've got the short commute time (12 minutes vs nearly an hour for my wife), figure I'll get all the baby ferrying duties later too. But hey, we discussed all these issues and agreed on them, and I'm excited about the whole thing!

So 3 months before my wedding, I got laid off. Since Hubby and I were taking a 10-day long delayed honeymoon 6 weeks after our wedding, I decided that questing for a new job just wasn't fair to any potential employers ("Hi! Please hire me, but even though I'm not a Bridezilla, I've got all my final fittings and catering appointments coming up and then I need 10 days off - cool?")

So we decided to try me as a SAHW, to see if I could cope with SAHM-hood. My husband had gotten a major promotion and we had lots of savings, so we knew we could try it for a year or so. And I DO realize there is a difference, but the idea was to see if I could cope with not having the intellectual stimulation. (Just to point out: as an aunt and a former paleontologist, I *have* logged much long-term babysitting time and 10-hour days working with kids. I'm not totally naive about the work involved.)

The verdict? Couldn't hack it. Just couldn't. And I am in awe of women who can. Even though I adore kids (still don't have one, but we're working on it) and know that you can actually have fun with them after a certain age, my mind is always working in technical/scientific problem-solving mode. I can't help it.

Because, as my sister (a SAHM to teenagers) put it - "There's only so clean your house can be after a while." Sure I got through all our reorganization and painting projects...after that, I was quizzing my husband hard every day when he got home, so I could discuss technology with *someone* and try and wrap my head around a problem that I'm used to solving.

As I said, I stand in awe of SAHM's, especially the ones who gave up careers to do it. It's not that I revere work or anything, it's just such a *huge* paradigm shift. Not only are you responsible for this little person, but all the responsibilities that you know well have disappeared. It's got to be confusing and doubt-causing.

So what's the plan for me? I'm building my own business, purely part-time. From the get-go, I'm taking the work that won't require me work 60-80 hour weeks (I *don't* miss those), but it's enough that I can bring some extra money into the household, and I have something other than domestic stuff (of which I'm not a huge fan) to occupy my mind.

But I'm lucky - many people don't have that choice. It's obvious to say "work less hours" or "quit your job", but in the current economic state, many people can't, so there's all sorts of working Mom's out there. I don't agree with some of them and their attitudes, but many of them do a kick-butt job of balancing life and work. Or at least they teach their kids that if they want clothes on their back and dinner on the table, that sometimes means that Mom *and* Dad can't always provide the ideal home environment that pretty much all of them would want.

That is so funny!

I would have to disagree that there are two sides, there really is not an argument. I think we need to extract the guilt from this issue and talk about what is best for individual families. I know that I love being with my girls on the weekends and evenings; I would go nuts doing that 7days, even with my supportive husband. Add the incentive of years of schooling and training and an enjoyable productive job and I will always be a WOHM. Usually on a bad work day, I do not say, "I wish I was home." Rather I say, "should I look for another job with better hours."

*You'll always have the rigid, uptight (i.e., conservative) people that fall into gender streotyping, but I don't get the sense that it's widespread here.* You obviously do not live in the same county I live in.

Maybe something's wrong with me, but I don't mind sitting on a park bench for an hour watching my kids play, and I even find it stimulating. There's usually someone else interesting and educated to talk with about the latest news, politics, "Lost", the weather, the kids.

It's not much different than the social conversations I had over lunch or coffee when I worked , and I don't miss endless discussions about the latest re-org, the policy on casual dress in the summer, or why timesheet codes are being mis-used.

I still get to take pride in myself when I do a good job (e.g., he was able to write his name today after 2 weeks of practice together, or I finally taught her to say please when she wanted juice).

It's more stimulating than the regulatory analyses I used to do or the meetings I arranged so that we could decide to have another meeting or the staff report I did that few people wanted to read.

I'm a SAHM now for going on 2 years - and it is tough. I do wish I was working - it was more fulfilling than raising children (in the short term). And what I mean by this is that at work you are actually able to FINISH a project, see a success, go on to something new.

Being at home I do the same things over and over every day - (dress, feed, entertain, feed, nap, entertain, feed, bathe, sleep, repeat) there is no satisfaction since once you finish feeding the kids you know you'll have to do it again in a few hours. Aggh!

But - I know in the long term it is for the best. So I do it - and they are great to be around. But I honestly miss working, that was fun too.

And - Unfortunately, our society is not yet open to people working part-time or reduced schedules or even working from home. I talked to my employer of 5 years about it, I was a great employee, and my job was perfect for a flex time/part-time or work from home situation and they said no. Flash forward 2 years and they are allowing my old manager, someone who has 4 people reporting to her, to work from TUCSON! I was only 4 minutes from the office and could have shown up with 20 minute notice.

It's all hard, none of it is easy. But you do what you have to do, or what you can do right?

I completely agree with Lawyer Mom. I'm also a working mother out of necessity. I don't understand the idea of work being "part of your identity." Frankly I think that's absurd. It's just a symptom of a society that values people for what they do instead of who they are. My interests outside of work are far more intellectually stimulating than anything I do at work.

I was absolutely dreading going back to work after my maternity leave. It killed me to leave my daughter every day. Now she's two and it's not as bad, but I still feel like my life is nothing but an endless hamster wheel of drudgery. Our weekends are nothing but errands and cleaning.

No, there's nothing wrong with you if you're happy to watch your kids at the park. Just don't get on me because I'd rather be at work and let the teachers watch the kids playing. That's all.

I don't see work as part of my identity but rather as a means of supporting my family while also teaching them the value of hard work and responsibility.

To the poster who said "That's because if you are SAHP who is dying to go back to work -- you probably can and will. If you are a WOHP who is dying to stay home but you aren't staying home, it's probably because you feel you can't manage it financially. Doesn't seem to be much of a mystery to me."

I think it is a mystery. I know some SAHMs who are pressured by their husbands to stay home, but I know lots more who would like to go back to work at least part time but feel it is better for their children that there's a parent at home. They feel guilty for even thinking about returning to work. And I also know lots of working moms who don't have to work and who feel guilty for not being at home with their kids!

So I guess it all comes back to why does almost every mother I know, working or SAH, feel guilt about whatever choice they're making?

We always hear, "happy mom, happy child," but...

I just read the article "Mommy wars: Sandy Hingston" that is linked on the upper left sidebar of this blog. As someone who trying to figure out how to healthily balance career and family once we have kids, Hingston's story sounds all too familiar and very, very alarming. She offers no full explaination of how her family became so dysfunctional. She wonders if it has to do with the lack of quality time she put in at home with her kids. Everyone's family dynamic is different, and aggression and anorexia have many causes, but what happens when a happy mom does NOT equal a happy child?

WorkingMomX said: So I guess it all comes back to why does almost every mother I know, working or SAH, feel guilt about whatever choice they're making?

Because women feel the need to compare themselves to others and to seek other's approval about their decisions. Everyone has a unique life with unique problems so one solution doesn't fit all. I don't care if people think I am a bad mother for working. People are entitled to their opinions. It is my choice. I made it and I am happy about it. It frankly is none of their business.

Before I say anything, please note that I am only speaking about those who do have a financial choice to stay at home. I am fully aware of the situation that many parents face that precludes them from being able to make that choice, and I was in that situation for many years myself.

I don't think one can decide "staying at home isn't for me" based on a 3 month maternity leave. During that time you barely have time to recover from childbirth and hopefully get to the point where you're not up every 30 minutes all night long. You don't have any time to pursue other interests because a) you're caring for the baby all of the time and b) you know you're going back to work so what's the point?

I've said it before a million times, but "staying home with the children" can mean a lot more than doing housework and going to the park. I'm with the poster above who said she didn't understand those who needed to work for intellectual stimulation....it's not like literature, clubs, volunteer work, current events, non-fiction, etc. are off limits to SAHPs. If anything, they're more accessible to them because they aren't spending 10-12 hours working outside the home and commuting and then coming home to children who are clamoring for their attention.

And on that subject...I just finished "I Don't Know How She Does It" last night. Yes, it's fiction - but I've heard many parents say they very much identify with Kate. One of the things that drives her nuts when she does spend time at home or on short vacations is her children's relentless need for her. They clamor for her attention and suck the life out of her. Well....of course they do! They only see her for a couple of hours a day, if they're lucky - and they need her. Children who are with their parents the majority of the time generally don't act like that, because their needs are being filled. And I am *not* saying that all children of WOHPs act like that - mine didn't when I worked - but it's also pretty false to say "there's no way I could put up with this 24/7" because you likely wouldn't. They would settle into being comfortable with you being around and wouldn't be afraid you were going to leave the next minute on a plane or a commuter train.

Speaking of guilt, did anyone read Ask Amy this morning? Am I the only one who wants to kick that guy in the shins??

(The one condemning the female soldier who left her daughter behind to serve in Iraq)

Just another thought on this. (As someone who works part-time from home building her own business, my own balancing act.)

Being a SAHM was much harder for me initially than it is now. It takes some getting used to. But, also, my daughter is much more fun and interesting now (at 15 months) than she was at 2 months. Being a SAHM with a 2-month old, really, is not a lot of fun. Not for me, anyhow. I was wondering about my decision a lot then. But, I pressed on, and it got better. Actually, it got a lot better right after when most women's maternity leave would end.

I remember noting that at the time, and thinking that I was glad I hung on long enough to find that out.

That still doesn't mean staying at home is right for everyone, but, I do think that the first several weeks of a new baby are not the best representation of what it's like in the long-run. It's something to keep in mind when making these kind of decisions.

In response to WorkingMomX...

I can't give you a good answer to the question of "why does almost every mother I know, working or SAH, feel guilt about whatever choice they're making?"

For me, it's because I feel like I should be doing it all even though I know it's unrealistic. I want badly to be in both worlds so I don't want to give up one entirely for another.

I work a solid part-time job. When I'm at work, I really miss my children and think about them so often throughout the day. When I'm home with them during the hours my colleagues are at work, I badly want to check voicemail and email and stay in the loop. I feel guilt during both these times and fight to stay in the moment.

John,

I think that many mothers of adult daughters react the way you describe because they see their daughters' rejection of a particular lifestyle as a rejection of them. If their daughters do motherhood the way they did, it validates their choices; if not, the mothers may feel judged and found inadequate.

I'm not defending this kind of narrow behavior. This stuff is the elder moms' baggage, and it's their problem to deal with it. Unfortunately, sometimes (often) daughters take things so much to heart that they can't shake the feeling of guilt that comes from rocking their mothers' safe and reliable world.

You can help your wife avoid this kind of guilt by letting her know that you think her choices are the right ones. It's up to her, though, to reinforce the boundaries between herself and mom.

I adore my son, but I could not stay at home with him 24/7. Nor do I need to anymore since he is in school from 9 to 3. Frankly, what I like about my job is the adult structure and the ability to set a goal for myself and meet it. I like being able to read a report for 45 minutes without interruption. I like that I can close my door and write a memo uninterrupted. I also like the interruptions that come in, the questions and conversations that adults have with each other. But I feel like I am in control. With small children, you have to have infinite patience. It is hard to even drink a cup of coffee without a little one demanding your time and attention. It is hard for some people to make that adjustment. I found that my husband was better at this than me, so he took the SAHD route and I worked. I found I was better able to give my son the attention he deserved if I did not have to do it all the time. So going to work allowed me to come home and have the patience to sit on the floor and make block towers. And in the morning, when I had coffee before going to work, I enjoyed that he sat on my lap because I knew that later on, I would be able to have another cup by myself. Actually, now that I write about it, I realize that my biggest adjustment when my son was born was giving up some of my alone time, which I really need. When my son was a toddler, I had no privacy at all when at home. I even had to keep the bathroom door open. This was hard. So going to work was almost an escape from the constant demands of a small child that I loved dearly, but needed space from sometimes. Not all people are hardwired this way. My husband can read the paper happily as little kids climb on him, and he is not the least bit bothered by the constant demands they make. I am different.

My husband and I found the middle ground between work and family and couldn't be happier. I'll preface this by saying that neither of us ever wanted to stay home full-time with our three children. We both derive immense satisfaction from working. I tried being a SAHM for a year, but my heart wasn't in it. The novelty of being home with mom all day soon wore off for my kids. They missed their friends and all of the activities they had at their daycare center. The day my kids asked if they could go back to their "school" was the day I started looking for a new job.

I am a lawyer who quit a job in private practice for a position in a government agency near Chicago. I do not make the money I would if I had stayed in private practice, but my salary is nothing to sneeze at, plus federal employee benefits are pretty good. My office is very family friendly, so I really do work only 40 hours per week and can take time off for school activities, to stay home with sick children, etc., whenever it is necessary.

My husband used to work as an operations manager for an independent grocery chain. He loved the work and made good money, but was expected to work 6 days a week, 12+ hours per day. He barely even saw our children, and was certainly not engaged in their lives. With a bit of prodding, he too decided to switch careers and now works for the government as an operations analyst. Again, what he gave up in salary he made up many times over in time and flexibility.

Between the two of us, we make enough money to live comfortably (but not extravagantly) in an upper middle class suburb of Chicago. We can't afford to drive luxury cars or take exotic vacations like many of our neighbors, but the flip side is that between the two of us we've attended every band concert, athletic competition, play, gymnastics meet, and parent-teacher conference involving our three children, something we couldn't do while working in our previous jobs. We wouldn't trade our current lifestyle for anything -- even the higher-graded positions everyone tells us we could get if we moved to D.C.!

momof4 said: Children who are with their parents the majority of the time generally don't act like that, because their needs are being filled. And I am *not* saying that all children of WOHPs act like that - mine didn't when I worked - but it's also pretty false to say "there's no way I could put up with this 24/7" because you likely wouldn't.

Wow! What a GROSS generalization! You should read some non-fiction books sometime. Current academic research (psychology & sociology) is inconclusive over the affects of SAHM vs. working moms. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Parenting is about consistency and boundries, one can establish these while working or being at home.

The issue with your idenity and stimulation also depends on the type of work you do. Someone who always has wanted to be a doctor and gets the instant respect that comes with the title probably has more identity issues than the receptionist. The stimulation you have doing research at NIH is different than what you get being a telemarketer. Not to say that any job has its downside or upside, but different careers have different impacts.

Alexandriamom:

First of all, feel free to not generalize about *me* when you do not know me. I do read nonfiction...because like I mentioned earlier, I have time for those sorts of things because I'm not working/commuting 10 hours a day and then trying to work in quality time with my children and do housework. I stated that I was aware that the book I cited was fiction but that many many working moms identify with the character's feelings and situation.

Second of all, I based my statement on how the vast majority of children whom I know with SAHPs act. I don't know anyone who has been a SAHP for any length of time who feels that their children suck the life out of them.

And third of all, I was just saying that you can't assume your children (or you) will act the same as they do on the weekends when you work as they would 24/7 if you weren't working. I don't think you can take a weekend and evening parenting experience and assume that doing it 24/7 would be the same situation only for more time.

"The issue with your idenity and stimulation also depends on the type of work you do."

Bingo. The idea of giving up my job bothers me because in a certain sphere I am well-known and yes, it is nice for the ego to have that kind of recognition. I've been tossing around my options WRT how I want to live. OTHER people get up and go to work at jobs where no one's ever heard of them, so it's certainly possible, but I have to weigh the way I think I would like to live (hard to do with this career path) against losing that recognition. Maybe I'm not yet tired enough to bow out of the game.

Momof4, I just think you should be careful with public pronouncements such as yours. As someone who grew up with a SAHM and with friends whose mom were at home, don't think you know how your child behaves outside of your house when you aren't around either. Holier than thou attitudes tend to backfire.

I agree than children are just fine in the care of a competent babysitter. (Since I've been a SAHM for 18 years, I've seen many children grow up!) Please note that many people feel it's good to have a parent at home after school during the middle school years. Kids don't want a babysitter, and they can get into all kinds of trouble between 3pm and 6pm. Another reason why meaningful part time work with benefits would help everyone.

I consider myself truly blessed to have the wonderful opportunity to witness the intellectual and physical growth of my two young children on a daily basis. If my husband did not make the money he does I would have to work.

As it now stands, I work one day a week to get out of the house but I have no desire to pursue actively full time employment at this juncture in my life.

This works for my family, as for intellectual stimulation enabling and encouraging a child's mind to grow through new daily experiences is such a joy.

Every day my children open a new world to be explored whether it's watching a caterpillar move or exploring the new found interests in dinosaurs whether it be with Tyrannosaurus Rex's or Diplodicus'.

Life is what you make of it, simple as that. Staying home can be mundane, boring and the same old, same old. But I chose to make my life interesting by involving my children in daily activities that are spontaneous and fun filled. It's not that hard to do.

I can teach my children what others learn in day care because I am a former child care worker and I have to say in all honesty the home environment with a consistent adult child care giver whether it be Mom or Dad is a far better situation then group care.

I am college educated and enjoyed my position as Supervisor of a child care program, but the thought of enrolling my little ones in institutionalized care so I could provide child care for others did not make one modicum of sense.

I am truly fortunate to be able to stay home, and I am blessed a million times over as I see my kids grow up.

I can't think of circumstances under which I would not work. I feel guilty when I work and I feel guilty on the weekends when I crave the "1 hour to myself". I think both feelings are normal and are not a result of comparing myself to anybody. I work full time with a commute b/c my office would not let me work part-time and I don't want to lose a good job. I keep thinking that it will get better in a couple of years when the kids are a little bit older but probably new issues will come up and I will look back at this time when they are small and "manageable" with nostalgia. Last year I had a 4-month break between jobs and I stayed home. Without a built in support network of other stay at home moms I felt miserable and lonely and isolated. Not that I come to work to socialize -- but just being in the office somehow makes me feel part of a society. My intellectual stimulation comes from friends and life outside the office but my PAYCHECK comes from here. And I like FREEDOM and CHOICES that money gives you too much.

AlexandriaMom, I didn't read Momof4's comment to mean that SAHP parent better than WOHP. I read her comment to mean that when children see their parent less, they are more demanding of that parent's time, i.e. needy and clingy. Whereas, if a parent is home all day, then it becomes no big deal to the child to be in a different room or whatever.

I struggled with going back to work while home on maternity leave. Many people told me to not base the SAHM experience on the first three months as it is entirely different from when the child gets older, a very correct assumption. When talking to my sister who is a full-time working mom about my struggle to decide to go back to work she gave me another good piece of advice which was to at least try going back to work. If it doesn't work out, then quit but you will never know unitl you have tried. At the time we could have lived solely off my husband's income, that is no longer the case as he has since taken a much lower paying job. Two years into it, I am glad I went back to work but I still have moments of doubt. One thing I am very happy about is that me working has enabled my husband to take the lower paying job which will ultimately help his career and the job has him home a lot more often. The thought of me being at home all day and him working his former job's hours (law firm) scares me as I would never get a break and he would never see his child. Our working situations right now gives us both balance. Balance that will be thrown off as my daughter gets older and if we have another child!

To WorkingMomX -- but what about the blog entry about guilt a week or two back and so many people commented that they DON'T feel guilty?!

I don't feel guilty. I don't think everyone feels guilty. Sure, some people do, but not all of us. Many people understand they are doing the best they can given the circumstances that they are dealing with, and frankly, the kids are probably going to turn out fine.

Oh, I read "clingy" and "demanding" as pejoratives. And I believed the implication of her comment was that children of SAHM were better behaved, which is not always the case.

I see a spiritual element here.

Among the reasons women work outside of the home, one is to "prove" that we can. Still. To "prove" to ourselves, families, societies, that we can be soldiers, stateswomen, teachers, CEOs. The drive behind that can be both ego and an egoless passion to our work, whatever it may be.

But at a certain point, particularly when we earn successes, we can experience the old, "Is this all there is?" Money, influence, honors, prestige, these can be great, but once we've "made it," we can sometimes look with renewed eyes and refreshed awe at the life of a child, our own child, and at our own lives, abandoning the need to prove or the drive to succeed and replacing it with subtler aims. Days building a home-life that is quieter, simpler, more focused in terms of immediate scale can feel like a daunting new challenge and comforting alternative to the paths we know---going there can open a whole new side of ourselves.

On the flipside, long-time SAHMs can feel after years of raising kids, "Is this all there is?" and the drive to prove that we're something more than nurturers, that we have ambition and talents and hunger can come alive, even late in life.

Instead of the war between each other it'd be great to see compassion for each other's stages and states, and admire both the desire for outward accomplishment and teh value of inner tending.

Certainly, as a sinlge mom, I have no choice but to work. However, I, too, am not wired to sit at home all day and not work. I had six months of maternity leave, and I went back to work part-time until my daughter was two years old.

In a perfect world, my ex-husband would have been more responsible and I would have built a freelance business and worked from home. I have several friends who are successful in this venture. It's a good balance for them. I also have friends who thrive as SAHMs. It's a very personal choice.

"I didn't read Momof4's comment to mean that SAHP parent better than WOHP. I read her comment to mean that when children see their parent less, they are more demanding of that parent's time, i.e. needy and clingy. Whereas, if a parent is home all day, then it becomes no big deal to the child to be in a different room or whatever."

Thank you for explaining my words better than I could!

I was not making a statement on the general behavior of children of WOHPs.

It is truly a personal decision that depends on financial matters and how much support (spouse, relatives, dependable babysitters, etc.) is available. I'm disappointed that so few people mentioned volunteering as a way to get some real personal satisfaction while being a stay-at-home mom. Using play-groups, mom's morning out groups and pre-schools that would take my three boys for just a couple of hours a couple of days a week gave me the opportunity to do volunteer work that put me in contact with other adults and gave me an "identity".
There are so many different kinds of volunteer groups that are crying for more help!

Why does everyone refer to being a SAHM as being with the children 24/7? They do take naps and you can still meet friends for lunch, shopping, or whatever. Usually Dad does spend some time with them. You can give them toys to play with by themselves while you are doing something else. I read more on maternity leave than I do now because I have to do all my home things in several hours per day rather than having all day. Just a question - don't fight over it.

I know that I could stay home because my job supports my life and is not an integral part of 'me'. I do get a certain amount of job satisfaction, but not enough to offset the level of tiredness I have felt for the past 10 years. As long as I must work, I want to do it to the best of my ability, but honestly I don't feel any special drive to leave my mark on the world. I would love to have a less demanding life.

I'm not cut out to be a SAHM. I am one of those people who works for intellectual stimulation. There's no good way to describe it unless you've experienced it yourself, but when I get so focused in on a thorny issue, time is irrelevant and the world ceases to exist; it's almost like a trance, and when I come out of it, I feel enormously satisfied and almost refreshed. That's something that just can't happen with my daughter and son there. I'm also an introvert, so quiet downtime is critical -- again, not much in evidence at home with two kids under 5!

I also don't feel guilty about working. My husband and I know from experience that kids can turn out great or troubled with either SAHP or WOHP, so we have worked on finding the balance that fits our family instead of trying to live up to some theoretical ideal. So we prioritize -- we cut what we can, and try to find a balance between what's left. More job flexibility instead of maximum salary; one or two activities for the kids instead of a bunch; outsource basic cleaning and give up any notions of being in House Beautiful; etc. Most of all, I don't beat myself up over everything I'm NOT doing -- there's always the day that daycare dropoff tugs at your heartstrings, or when client demands seem overwhelming, but overall, we know that we are living our lives in accordance with our priorities, as best as we know how. That's the best cure for guilt that I've found.

Of course, having a daughter who is incredibly social and who craves the stimulation and structure that her preschool provides helps enormously, too. But if my son has different needs (which he likely will, as they're night and day), then we'll just find a way to shift the balance somehow.

SarahS, I completely agree with your post. I think everyone asks "Is this all there is?" My male friends have certainly had this existential question as well. I think it reflects the human condition.

While I do respect women who make the decision to stay at home, not much has been discussed by those who honestly cannot stay at home.
I made the choice of having my daughter at a young age. I worked in the service industry while attending college when she was a toddler. all i can remember was being exhausted because of my work/school schedule. When I had the time to spend with my little one, I was often found at parks with my nose in a book while she played with her friends.
I was snubbed by the regular SAHM's. When I enrolled my daughter in soccer, they refused to speak to me.They even released her from the roster without notifying me. When I volunteered at her school (extending myself even more) I rarely had anyone to talk to. During PTA meetings, they hardly knew my name, even though I made an effort to be a visible part of my daughter's life while I worked part time and attained my education.
When I finished school, I had such a bad taste in my mouth from my experience that I even went as far to move out of the Affluent Howard County MD.neighborhood to a much more friendly urban environment.
My ex husband owes me almost $15,000 in back child support and the State still cannot find him. I still work with a 2 1/5 hour daily commute.
Result? My daughter is still a happy, well ajusted child. I *MAKE* the time with her because I have to work. weekends are family time and we do anything including attending fun conventions to BBQing at parks. Sure, there were times that she asked if I could be home more when she was younger, but as she got older, she started to understand that the more Mommy worked, the better her life got.
There is no other choice. Even with my second husband's income added to the mix, I still have no choice. I suspect, the way the prices of items are steadily increasing, that I never will have that choice.
There is nothing wrong with striking a balance with work and children. To do this, one must understand their own boundries and what they may or may not be able to afford. Smart parenting does come from smart parents who understand the importance of fiscal conservatism in a highly material world.

AlexandriaMom, Perhaps an example that has nothing to do with SAH vs. WOH parenting? When I go visit my niece and nephew, they are so happy to see me. "Aunt R, read me a book! Aunt R, see what I can do! Aunt R, let's go outside and play!" I love it for a few hours a week, but it would be exhausting if it were every day. Point being, if I saw them every day, that's not how they would be because they'd be used to me.

I mean, you are free to take offense at Momof4 and at me if you insist, I'm just saying I don't think that's how it was meant.

I don't have kids yet. However, I've been thinking that staying at home would not work for me. This is not because of how I would feel, but how that would affect my child's upbringing.

I would not want to be pretty much the only one of two adults in my child's life. For me, it comes down to how much exposure I want my child to have to life outside the house. Do I want my child to experience being without me for the first time at age 6? Do I want to pass on all the bad habits I have that can be concealed before and after work but not all day? It seems like my kid is more likely to pick up all my bad habits if she's with me 24 hours a day. And how will she react to new things if she's so used to everything staying the same at home? And I certainly don't have an educational background to teach children, but a hand-picked caregiver would have that and would be in a better position to teach my kid things I don't know.

The bottom line (for ME, not anyone else) is that I would be worried about hampering the growth of her personality and her intellect because she would be stuck with me and only me during what some would consider the most formative time of human development.

I think that whichever life you choose, staying at home or working, it is a tough balancing act. Either way you need to try and find time for yourself and your family. I try to strike a balance at work by keeping somewhat regular hours. But when the comp-time adds up, which it occasionally does. I do not make apologies for taking some time off to fulfill my duties as room-parent, attend a school trip or volunteer in the classroom.

I currently do not have the option to stay at home, unless we cash in our primary residence and move to a less expensive part of the country. I am not sure if my children would benefit from a type A personality mother looking after them 24/7. Work gives me something else upon which to focus my nervous energy, so I am not smothering my kids with my "best intentions." I have learned to be more selective in what I commit to and always think first about the impact of my obligations upon family. I do enjoy the rewards of my career and the intellectual and social stimulation of working outside of the home.

I am happy with my child-care situation. My two sons are cared for by my mother during the work week. We pay her a modest amount which she can invest into her Roth IRA. We also reimburse her for expenses. We end up paying less than we would for full-time care for two children in a family day-care. Her care is invaluable to our family. I know that there is no perfect substitute for their own parents, but at least my children are surrounded by family members who love them. We choose to stay in the DC area, because this is where my family lives. My children get to benefit from being close to wonderful Grandparents, two Great-Grandparents, and numerous aunts, uncles and cousins.

My children understand that both Mom and Dad work, just as they understand that it is their responsibility to go to school. It is a fact of life, and we do the best we can with our time and resources.

You honestly cannot tell me that by using pejorative terms to describe the behavior of the children of working moms that she meant nothing by it. It seems to me, you cannot logically see the implications of her argument. Regardless, this thread is getting silly.

My kids are grown now. I believe they are much more balanced as people because they had almost equal input between their dad and me. Over the years we had different times when we both worked and contributed equally financially, where I was the primary breadwinner, and where he was. It was not something we planned, just kind of worked out that way due to the things life threw our way. If I had been a stay at home mom, which I would have preferred, but we could not afford, he would have missed out on a lot with the kids and they with him.

>>

Wow. No guilt like mother guilt, eh? I hope you stood up for you wife.

I agree that it is a personal decision. I have stayed at home, I have stayed at home and run a daycare business from my home, worked a job with my children's schedule a priority, and finally "just stayed home". My husbands military career and now his consulting business sort of set the parameters for what I could do. I made choices that I could live with. Certainly everyone should do what is right for them, and finances often take precedence over desires. Eighteen years is big slice of life to put a career on hold or put it in second place, but in the age of birth control, why have kids if you are not going to enjoy them? The challenge is being comfortable with the choices you make. My identity is not wrapped up in a job or being a Mom, but the joy that my children have given me, has been far more gratifying than any work place success. Make your own choices, don't feel guilty. You can return to work, you can't return them to childhood and start over, so think about those choices.

On the issue of whether children of WOHM's are clingier/needier - I think an argument could be made that they are less so because they seem more likely to have learned how to play with other children and by themselves. Several of the young children of SAHM's I interact with are much needier and clingier than mine (in daycare 3 days a week). They prefer to play games with their parents because their parents follow their scripts as opposed to children their age who have their own ideas. They also have a tough time getting used to a different caregiver or a change in their schedule.

I have taken 2 6 month maternity leaves. At the end of each I was sure that I wanted to keep staying home and was so upset at the thought of leaving my kids and the difficulty in running a house while working. Both times I forced myself to go back and give it a try -- both times I realized within a few weeks that it was the right decision for me and for my kids. I did cut back on my hours and my husband and I adjusted our schedules so our children have shorter days in daycare. Bottom line -- I don't think you can know what's best for you and your family until you've tried it both ways.

>>>Maybe if more men were willing to step up and stay home, or even do their fair share, it would be easier (DCSingle).

>>>Sexist or not, I maintain that most men do NOT have to choose between working and parenting, so why should I (or any woman) have to choose?? (Katherine).

Some of the ladies on this board insist that this is the 1950's and ALL MEN want to be absentee fathers who just work their 8 hours and want their wife to bring them their paper and slippers.

Well, we aren't all that way. And DCSingle, you're better off single if that's the way you think. Save someone the trouble of divorcing you...

to alexandriamom,

Get over it. Kids are clingy/needy at different stages of their lives in different situations. It sounds like you are looking to take offense where none was intended.

I think the answer is just to find the correct balance. I don't think it is an all or nothing situation. The correct balance is different for every family and maybe different at different times for an individual family. I took a 4 month maternity leave when my daughter was born. When my daughter turned 1 year old, my supervisor approached me with a potential part time assignment. It took a few months for a major project to wind down before I went part time. When my daughter turned 14 months, I went to a 4 day a week (9 hour days) schedule. I took a 10% pay cut, loose 10% vacation and sick leave, and I am only accruing 90% time in service. But it is awesome. It allows me a long weekend every week with my daughter. It is also very flexible for long weekends away. It also gave me some one and one time with just my daughter. I hardly noticed the 10% pay cut. Although I am not sure why, I don't notice it but we have just adjusted. I am amazed at the different work situations that I read on this blog-6 month sabbaticals, interesting telecommuting work, and part time assignments. I really beg employeers and employees to work on flexible work schedules. I think my employer gets the greatest reward. I still do the same amount of work and get paid less. I just cut down in all the emails, net searches, and small talk in the office.

This is probably like throwing water on a grease fire, but here it goes. I am just wondering if anyone chose to either work out side of the home or stay-at-home based solely on what was good for the marriage?

On the discussion between momof4 and alexandriamom, a couple of thoughts:

1. What about the idea that children who don't have mom around all the time actually become more independent than their friends with SAHMs. It doesn't follow that just because kids don't have mom around much they're going to turn into clinging little pills when she is there.

2. There may be a likelihood for kids with SAHMs to take mom for granted and see her as the cleanup, pickup person, especially as they get older. After all, one message (and granted, not the only one) that SAHMs convey to their kids is that their children are more important than anything. Why else would mom be home with them all the time? Yeah, this can provide the kids with security and a sense of rootedness, but it can also implant the message that they're entitled to have someone take care of them throughout their lives.

SAHMs have a big challenge here to help their kids learn self-reliance.

to pittypat,

I find it interesting that you are assuming that the mother of the adult daughter had been SAHM. John had indicated that the MIL was now retired which implies that she had worked at some time. I actually read this with the impression that the MIL had been WOHM and regretted that the daughter was following her lead and not staying home.

Interesting that we all put our own interpretations on these postings.

Well, we aren't all that way. And DCSingle, you're better off single if that's the way you think. Save someone the trouble of divorcing you...

To the 12:27 poster, are you threatened by what these women are saying. Maybe not all men are 1950's types, I am sorry to say that most men still let women shoulder most of the home and childrearing burden, so in fact, the choice that women make to stay at home is not so much a choice but a necessity because their husbands are not stepping up and doing their fair share of home duties and women cannot to it all all by themselves. Kudos to you if you are different, but if you are, you are in the minority.

Ladies and genltemen- I think we are missing the point. How many of you have written in that you didn't want to stop working because you didn't want to lose your jobs, or that there was no alternative to working 40 hours a week? There needs to be a change in how businesses treat new mothers and fathers. Men and women who want to work after a child is born should be able to without penalty.

The fact is, some women love to work (and see their career as part of their identity, just like being a mother is part of their identity, or a soccer player/artist/pianist). Why should we prevent a motivated, contributing employer from working? For example- I work at a university as faculty member. Those who have a tenure-track position are on a strict timeline. If you don't make it, after X number of years you can no longer work at the university (similar to becoming a partner at a law firm). The point is, there is nothing factored in for a parent who wants to stay at home- the timeline doesn't change.

Until men and women are able to have a reasonable choice, we will continue to have this conversation ad nauseum.

Meesh, most SAHP's are not around their kids 24 hours a day and are not their only influence. They usually have playdates, childcare swaps, parent's morning out programs, and/or preschool. While I think that having a 6-year-old separate from their parents for the first time, it's really unrelated to being a SAHP. Kids with a nanny can have much less exposure to other kids if their nanny doesn't make an effort to take them out of the house (and yes, I've seen this many times).

12:27 Man - a little sensitive, perhaps? Don't do as much around the house as your wife would like you to? Feeling a little guilty because you get called on it?
Lots of men still feel this way, even though it's 2006. A guy in my office whines that he HAS to go to baby classes, and his wife is due in September. Boy, do I feel sorry for her. He's teeing himself up to wheedle out of all the baby work by doing a " You can do it better than me" thing. He knows NOTHING about the baby he's about to have. So sad, especially for the poor baby.
And that divorce comment.... spare all of us from marrying dopes like you!

"The point is, there is nothing factored in for a parent who wants to stay at home- the timeline doesn't change."

Possibly because having a child is, how do you say, a choice? If you want to focus your energies on family, that's great for you - but why should you expect that you should get a more relaxed schedule than someone who chooses to have children *after* s/he reaches tenure? The vast majority of the time, you can control when you get pregnant (using this fantastic set of products known as "birth control"). Certainly there are many things society can do better for working parents. But giving you an unfair advantage/break over someone who decides to work or postpone having children is not really just.

Why no talk of her husband that was the stay at home dad while she worked? It seems that more and more people today want to be defined by their Job and bank account instead of their REAL contribution to society, a well raised child...

For my marriage going back to work was certainly better. First, the money, second, less pressure on husband to be the sole provider, and third, most importantly RESPECT. Statements like "I work as much as you do and make (nearly) as much as you do" have done wonders to get him to carry 50% of the load. And no, he is not stuck in the 1950's but he was raised by HIS working mother like a prince with no responsibilities.

I think the whole discussion about the neediness of children of SAHP v WOHP needs a little nuance. Children are different and will react differently to the same situation. I think Momof4 made a good point that children may behave differently with a SAHM than they do on the weekends with a WOHM; also, as many have said, the early months are a much more demanding time than later. But a lot of kids also need time away from parents as they get older.

My experience is that my son and I seem to have a sort of threshold. When I started working full time and my husband part-time, we put my son in 1/2 day daycare. I see him at lunch most days as I work from home, and we still get a lot of time together. He was less clingy and mommy-focused after we started this arrangement, and became a lot more able to play on his own, accept help from dad or other adults, etc. It's been really nice. HOwever, when I started studying for the bar exam and have been away on weekends and not home for a lot of lunches, he has become much more clingy and demanding of my time when I'm home because he's just not getting enough of me. It's really sucked. But I am sure once the exam is over and we get through a few weeks of getting back into our previous routine, things will even out again.

What I've taken from this is that my son needs some time away from me, but not this much. When we pass some threshold of time away from each other, it really negatively affects him (and me). But under that, it seems to be a neutral or even positive thing.

>>>Maybe if more men were willing to step up and stay home, or even do their fair share, it would be easier (DCSingle).

I think that is an oversimplified and too-easy way to think about the problem. Men are often just as constrained in their choices as women by traditional gender roles. I do believe that the benefits of sexist stereotypes tend inure to the benefit of men, while women get most of the downsides, but it's just not fair to generalize to the same degree on parenting issues.

I am a recently married professional with a wonderful husband who is as perplexed and conflicted about how to balance family and career as I am. We are planning to have kids in the near future. My husband is excited to be a father, and to raise a family together. Both of us agree that he would probably be better at staying home, particularly when our kids are younger. (He's infinitely more patient than I am, and has less of his self-image and identity tied to his occupation.) My earning potential also exceeds his by several multiples. We could certainly manage on his salary (and I know we are fortunate to have these choices), but we can live a lot more comfortably on mine.

We've talked a lot about our hopes and expectations tied to parenting, and I've come to realize that my husband feels the social pressures to conform to gendered stereotypes as much as I do. In many ways, it's harder for him. Luckily, he's pretty self-assured and self-aware, enough to ignore his buddies when they give him a hard time, or his family when they express confusion about our choices. It amazes me that he is able to do this, when I can see that there is even less support for him to make the choice to be a stay-at-home dad than there would be for me to be a working mom.

We've agreed that we will not make any permanent decisions about who works and who stays at home until we have a child and see how we feel about it. But it shouldn't be this hard to make the decision. For either of us.

>>>Kudos to you if you are different, but if you are, you are in the minority.

And you know this HOW??

This is probably like throwing water on a grease fire, but here it goes. I am just wondering if anyone chose to either work out side of the home or stay-at-home based solely on what was good for the marriage?

Cristina, I have only heard of a few women who did that and no men that did that. I still can't figure out why a grown man can't take care of himself. After all, single men seem to work and take care of their home business. But I suppose if you can afford it and you both desire that situation there is nothing wrong with it.

Plus, I feel it is very important to contribute financially to my family's well being. Personally, I feel it is unfair to men to place all of the financial burden. If I was a guy, I would resent my wife staying home while I was responsible for all the bills, including her student loan!

I think it only works if the WOHP feels that the SAHP is contributing to the family by taking care of the home and family. Otherwise, I do think it would breed resentment. Although, I think that stinks because the SAHP is certainly doing more then his or her fair shared.

Professor said, "Until men and women are able to have a reasonable choice, we will continue to have this conversation ad nauseum."

Completely agree with you. However, I would add that women who drop out of the workplace don't help the case for changing workplace policies.

Obligatory Childfree Thread Hijacker,

If someone works their butts off from college straight through the PhD and professorship with absolutely no breaks or other professional career, the earliest s/he could get tenure would be 32 or 33. Fertility drops precipitously starting at this age and it is possible that many women would not be able to get pregnant at this point. Of course it would be even harder if she took a year or two to work between college and grad school.

There has been a lot of discussion on women not having as many professorships as men, particularly in the sciences, and I think this may be one of the reasons.

Problem about forced timelines they usually apply to people in their twenties and thirties - the time that is best from a biological standpoint to have children. So you are asked to choose between the career you want and possibly having children. Something men have not traditionally had to do. Also, if you look closely many of these time lines are arbitary. Finally flexibility works for all of us. If you can't take three months for maternity leave you can't take three months of FML to take care of an ill parent.

Becoming tenured is a very long process. Most individuals reach tenure after the age of 35. This is important because the risk of difficult pregnancies and birth defects increases dramatically once a woman reaches this age.

I am all for choices. I'm not saying you should have a relaxed schedule to get things done when you feel like it. All I'm recommending is that there should be an option to have a postponment. Is it fair that a women should have to weigh her health (or her baby's health) over her career? No. I also feel that this should apply to someone who needs to stay home to take care of a sick family member. Life happens, and when employers are too rigid, you lose out on a lot of people who would otherwise be happy.

I do not appriciate your tone. I am aware of the fantastic set of products known as birth control. But most women can't have children after they achieve tenure, or don't want to risk the potential (very significant) health issues that may occur. Having children IS a choice, but let it be an equitable choice.

Many of us are managing to have a job, a bank account, AND a well raised child. Not mutually exclusive. To add my own personal anecdote, which I expect all readers to accept as universal...the other night I took my 3-year-old to a party where one of the other guests was also 3. What a contrast. My son, who is in daycare during the week, was noticably more friendly towards the other guests (adults and kids), much more talkative--would answer questions, have whole conversations with adults, and was more polite (said 'please' and 'thank you', etc.) than the other 3-year-old, who is home with mom all day and was alternately clingly and bratty during the party. SAHPs don't hold the monopoly on good kids.

I thought some colleges do give you some time off. My friend's wife is a tenure track professor. She took two years of no pay off to have her twins. I think the tenure track time clock just stopped during her time off and started back when she went back.

>>>12:27 Man - a little sensitive, perhaps? Don't do as much around the house as your wife would like you to? Feeling a little guilty because you get called on it?
Lots of men still feel this way, even though it's 2006.

Yes, I'm sensitive about it, b/c I absolutely bust my butt to be a good Dad, and I'm tired of the low expecations and the damning with faint praise that the Dads often get. Dads absolutely should do their fair share. Totally valid point there. But how about trying a little positive reinforcement instead of harping on how bad "most men" are, given that you probably have never had contact with "most men." Why not start with generating a positive dialogue with the guy sharing a bed with you every night, so that your kids feel balanced parenting, and connect with Dad just as much as Mom.

We don't want to be strangers or foreign appendages in our own homes, and "most of us" are tortured about how to fix that while still bringing in the $$$ that society expects us to do as head of household.

Yes, I'm ticked about this, because I get sick of seeing the "parenting would be easier if men would participate" message every friggin day. It's insulting.

Amy said: "Eighteen years is big slice of life to put a career on hold or put it in second place, but in the age of birth control, why have kids if you are not going to enjoy them? "

There is a HUGE difference in staying home with an infant versus a toddler versus a school-aged child, and certainly as compared to an 18 year old high school senior.

It interests me that people on this blog describe intervals in their own life of working, then staying home, then working part time, making conclusions about which was better and worse, when each of these intervals necessarily took place at a different time in the children's lives. That is, people who claim that "raising" their children is as much interpersonal interaction and intellectual stimulation as anyone should need can't possibly be reflecting accurately the life of a SAHM with a newborn, which can be a very isolating experience. Likewise, people who say that SAHM's have plenty of time for book clubs and lunch with friends can't be reflecting the life of the average SAHM with an active toddler.

Conversely, and perhaps controversially, what bothers me in my personal experience is the SAHM's of school-age children that live on my block and go on about how they made the choice to stay home because they can't bear the idea of someone else raising their children. Well, those kids are now in school and organized sports and 5 other activities a week, and those moms are still neither working outside the home (and in the case of my neighbors, they have cleaning lady, lawn service, and frequent pizza deliveries) nor "enjoying the kids" all the time. Maybe after a point, staying home full-time is not just because you're saving the kids from the tragedy of being raised by someone else...

Actually there was a WSJ article on the president of Princeton who happens to be a woman (Shirley Tilgham). She has ensured that the tenure track is increased by a year for every child an assistant professor has. Hopefully the tide is also turning at more universities.

To "Actually, Joe..." you just jinxed yourself. Next party you go to YOUR 3 year old will be the brat. It's a universal given. I'm not saying your child is not good -- I'm sure he is -- but every 3 year old has their moment ;-)

It saddens me to read all these posts from women and men who have sent their children to daycare. Why do you have kids if you are going to send them away to be treates like animals all day long?

The biggest problem in this country is that moms, or dads, do not stay home to raise a child. Shame on everyone who works only to keep your McMansion and Lexus. If you cannot put your children first you have no business having children.

Kudos to you if you are different, but if you are, you are in the minority.
And you know this HOW??

Check out US Census Bureau statistics:
According to the US Census Bureau, there are 66.3 million fathers in the United States today. US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/001792.html

There are an estimated 105,000 "stay-at-home" dads. These are married fathers with children under 15 who are not in the labor force primarily so they can care for family members while their wives work outside the home. Stay-at-home dads care for 189,000 children.
US Census Bureau
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/children/001125.html

However you slice it, from these figures, you can see that the overwhelming majority of parents who stay at home to raise their kids are women. There are a few men who do it, but just a few. There is no balance here. Women are doing most of the stay at home parenting, and this is where the generalizations come from.

I understand the frustration of the blank poster (obviously a dad who tried to do his fair share). My husband also does his fair share and I try as much as I can to give him positive reinforcement. However, even though I don't know "most men" I know he is in the minority. Most guys I know believe it is the responsibility of the woman to do the lion share of child raising and won't even consider the idea of staying home to take care of a child. I believe that is changing but very slowly.

I agree completely with professor. I don't have children nor do I want them, but I am a feminist, and I think women get saddled with the "balancing act" business more than men because we (men *and* women) don't insist that our places of work give both men and women the flexibility and options needed for children, and of course continue to try to change social ideas about these things. This flexibility, incidentally, should extend to other family obligations as well, like parent care, etc.

We don't want to be strangers or foreign appendages in our own homes, and "most of us" are tortured about how to fix that while still bringing in the $$$ that society expects us to do as head of household.
Yes, I'm ticked about this, because I get