Moira,

Maybe you can check in with that DCUrbanMoms website and find some people through there. Also, don't forget about your old friends.

Your husband needs to seriously grow up. He's a father and a husband - not a frat boy. He's never going to wish he went to the bar -- but he is going to regret the time he missed with his son sitting around and moping that he's not at the bar.

Also, it never hurts to have your old friends over for brunch/dinner - even if it's just spaghetti or take out. If you take the first steps...they may surprise you.

I became a mom 10 days shy of my 26th birthday. My daughter was completely planned except that she was 3 months early (the conception problem that never was). My husband and I lost almost all of our friends because they were mostly unmarried and definitely childless. Take heart. Your boy will be just fine as long as he is loved. If you look at the community rec groups offered through county government there are usually offerings on the weekends. My daughter and I did Gymboree every Saturday morning to give my stay-at-home husband a break. Once she was old enough, we started going to other programs.

I think you're main problem isn't your age or the fact that you work. In fact, it doesn't sound to me like you have any problems. You need to find a compromise with your husband. First, he needs to let go of his childhood. Then, you guys need to get a friend or relative (or a good babysitter) to watch your baby for date nights periodically. Your husband might also want to engage more with the baby by going to the local park or something, without you. Parenthood is much more real and fulfilling when you actually are engaged in your child's day to day life. Working parent or not.

I agree with the first two posters. They are exactly right about your husband--time to grow up. He can go out once in a while with his friends, but he needs to be spending more time with you and your child.

I was 28 when I had my first and worked as well. It is tough when it seems that other mothers are at home and getting together. They do seem to shun the one's who work, but in reality it's not entirely true. There are classes for babies on the weekends if you look for them. Check out the Y or the JCCs, check out your local rec centers and church/synagogues. Gymboree has classes on the weekends as well. I met other parents through an activity that didn't involve children (a recreational sport), but some of these people are my closest friends and they all have children.

And the idea about a 1-2 x a month date night is good advice. I didn't with my first, but relaxed more with my second and I wish I had done these sooner. I understand the feeling that since we work, we feel/felt that we had to spend every other waking minute with our kids. You need some time to your self too. It's good for your child to have a happy mother.

And in reality, many SAHM feel isolated too. We are becoming an isolated society. People stick to themselves more these days. So it's not just you.

Moira

It is very lonely sometimes, even when you ARE involved in a few activities with the kids. A few suggestions: Fairfax County has Baby and Me swim "lessons" on weekends and evenings, that's what we did. In fact, look at Fairfax County for several thinsg, like kid art classes and "gym" type classes. They often have many sessions during the day evening and weekends.
And places like The Little Gym have classes in the evenings, we have met some good friends there.

As far as your husband goes he needs to make peace with where his life is, accept it and be happy with it. And I second the poster above who suggested nights out, just the 2 of you. Maybe you can even meet your friends out sometimes on those nights.

We were lucky, everyone we knew was having kids around the same time as us, so we never had that identity crisis of being in one place and our friends another.

Good luck, it will get better!

If you live in the Burke area there is a working moms social group I can give you information on.

I don't really have constructive advice, but I'm sorry that you feel so lonely. Even though I'm not a mom yet, and I'm a few years older than you, I've had periods of loneliness. DC is a transient area and friendships ebb and flow. Occasionally it all coincides to create a time period when you are more likely to feel out of the loop.

I hope it gets better for you soon!

I have a comment from "the other side" -- I'm about the same age as Moira, and I'm one of the very few in my circle who isn't married and doesn't have children. I am EXTREMELY lonely these days, because it feels like all my girlfriends have deserted me.

No one is intrested in anything anymore except BABY BABY BABY, and frankly there's only so much of that I can take. If I want to see them I have to deal with their elaborate schedules and plan things weeks in advance and still they cancel half the time. They're never willing to do things on my terms, it *always* has to be on their terms.

So check yourself on that -- maybe your old friends really do want to see you, they just need some compromise on your part with regards to schedules, activities, etc. Try to ditch the "mom" label every now and then and just go back to being "girlfriend".

Do you have family in the area? There is nothing wrong with living baby with Grandma for a night to go out and have fun with your husband and friends. Talk to him. Maybe Friday night can be social and fun night, and then the rest of the weekend is their for family time. I think you have to understand that your old friends probably also feel somewhat alienated by your marriage, and that is a conversation you should have with them.

Even though I'm not a mom yet, most of my close friends already have children (and we are all 2 to 3 years younger then you). I have tried to stayed in touch with them through all their changes, you must remember though as much as your friends might like your children; they don't just want to talk about them at all times. In my experiences I've found that many new moms forget the fact that they are more than just a mom. They continue to be sisters, friends, daughters, and specialy wifes. I guess my advise would be to nurture those already established relationships, and like the posters before- I agree on alone time for you and your husband.

Tell your husband it's time to act like a man. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this isn't college and it's unacceptable, particularly with you working as well, for him to be more interested in knocking back a few with the boys then being a father and husband.

I don't know how much you've tried to talk with him about this behavior, but the other posters suggestion of making a night or two for you both to go out and relax seems like a good offer of compromise without completely taking away a social life. On the other hand, if he's stumbling into your home after last call, it's time to go to the therapist.

Well,

Here is my opinion, if you can listen to the perspective of one who has been there. My kids (four of them) are in their teens and early twenties. My wife and I began having them when she was 20 and I was 26. Now I am 50 and she is 44. The folks who wait longer are going to pay a price. It's great to be within reach of our children's age and activity level. You are at an advantage you'll come to enjoy in the years ahead.

Anyway, the solution to your loneliness is simple and traditional. Have another child. I guarantee you will not be lonely again. As to your husband, kick him in the butt and hand him the kid. Parenthood is not a lifestyle choice, it is life.

I had the same problem when my son was born. We lived in an apartment downtown (the only people in the building with a kid), and every time I went to the park to meet other moms I realized I was the only mom there. All the other grownups were nannies and they had their own cliques that didn't seem to accept outsiders. My husband also had a hard time adjusting to life with a baby. But once our son got older, started walking and talking, they really started to hit it off. Now they are best friends and spend loads of time together. I think some people, not just men, have a hard time bonding with infants because they aren't as responsive to their attention as a toddler.

And we moved to the 'burbs. There are lots of kids on our street and couples we like a lot. We still have our unmarried childless friends, but we see them for brunch rather than try to make a happy hour or club at night.

We did see a therapist about our problems adjusting to being parents. I'm not sure if it helped, but it was nice to get out of the house together just the two of us, even if it was to see a counselor.

Good luck to you!

I work full-time, and we met a lot of our friends at the local park, at the library's Saturday morning story time for little kids, and by taking walks through the neighborhood. Good luck!

I agree with what Juliana stated above. Go out once and a while and just be a girlfriend to your friends. With a young child, I am sure it is hard to think of anything other than your little one. But remember, your friends want you to hear about them too. And, they want parts of the "old you" back again.

That said, one of my biggest fears of motherhood is losing myself. I don't want to be a woman who only spends time with her child or doesn't talk to their friends about their interests as well. I don't have children yet, but am sure it is hard. Any advice as to how to strike this balance would be great.

FWIW, I am 32 and none of my friends have children. We are only now starting to try for them. I will be interested to see if David is right and I will "pay the price". I will say that right now, I look and feel younger than 30. So maybe I won't feel it as much. We'll see if the workouts have been worth it.

I would advise not to have another to get rid of the lonliness. You may want to wait until your husband has ocme around to try that one.

The solution to loneliness (or any other emotional problem)is never going to be having another baby! What a dopey concept.

So you want these groups for you because your husband cannot fullfill you emotionally. Seems like some counselling should be going on between you and your husband. You can meet as many like people you want, but the void will still be there. Only your husband can fill that void, so you have 2 basic options. Work on it with him, or leave it unfilled. I vote for the latter, because in the long run, the one that will REALLY be affected is your child...

There is a lot of good advise on this board. Yes, your husband needs to grow up - but I understand a bit of his frustration.

What about neighbors? Your commentary doesn't say anything about where you live, but I found after we had several LONELY years when my daughter was first born - we finally met some great neighbors. We used to see people walking in the evenings with their kids and dogs so we started going out for walks too - now 5 summers later we have a close knit neighborhood that hangs out together all the time. Some neighbors have kids, some do not, some moms work, some do not - but we all enjoy a beverage, watch sports, talk and the kids play. You have to be willing to get the ball rolling and open your home to have a get together.

Good Luck, things will get better.

I've been waiting for this topic!!! Thank you! I had my first beautiful daughter at the embarrassingly young age of 21 and my second beautiful daughter at 24. It's tough being the youngest Mom in every situation, especially because I look much younger than I am.

I've felt like an outcast from the "Mom Clique" at schools, play groups, and Girl Scouts. I've noticed that even my children's teachers seem to react differently to me than the other mothers who volunteer in the classrooms. I've attempted to make friends with the mother's of my children's friends, but I too feel like the 'little kid at the grown-up table." I was overjoyed to turn 30 because I thought that I would feel better, but as I said, I look much younger and the way other 40-something Moms with kids the same age as mine react to me hurts.

My children were surprises, not accidents, I was married at the age of 20 before I became pregnant, and have been in the same loving marriage for 10 years.

I was 22 when I had my oldest son. People used to ask me if I was the nanny, especially while living in a more affluent area where women pretty much never had their kids before age 35. Two pieces of advice: hang in there - it gets easier to meet other moms when the kids are older, especially once they start preschool. Second, see if there's an older woman you can bond with. I have found that older women are much more accepting of younger moms - you will remind them of themselves when their kids were young. And they have years of wisdom and experience to share. Plus they're not hung up in the competition and insecurities which can poison mom's interactions with each other.
And tell your husband to grow the heck up! A child shouldn't have to compete with a beer and overgrown frat boys for attention. He may well benefit from therapy in order to help him adjust to being a grown-up.

I was really lonely when my kids were little until I found out about Mothers of Preschoolers (mops.org).

It's a Christian organization which is really for MOMS and not just kids. They have evening meetings specifically for working moms -- as well as daytime meetings for at home moms -- where the emphasis is on meeting the MOM's needs, socially, creatively, spiritually, etc. (They also provide childcare for your kids.)

There are lots of MOPS groups in Fairfax County, and it's a great way to meet other moms. And the moms span all ages. I had my kids in my thirties and made great friends with younger and older moms. Go to their website, type in your zipcode and see what groups exist in your area.

"I will be interested to see if David is right and I will "pay the price"."

Nonsense. People should have children when they are ready. This David person is a little arrogant and is just justifying his choice. You'll be fine and so will your children. Enjoy the trying-for-children-stage of your life.

And to Finally 30--I was typically one of the younger mothers when my son was going through preschool and elementary school. I didn't feel alienated even though I was not only young but looked much younger. Perhaps you ACT much younger and it's a turn-off. There have been one or two mothers I've come across who turned me off because they were so ridiculously immature. Age doesn't matter--it's how you behave and approach others.

I had my daughter two days before my 25th birthday, and went back to work 7 weeks later. I'm having my second child in two months, just shy of my 28th birthday, and can relate to the deart of [at least visible] moms in their twenties. They are out there, I just don't know where they hang out in the dc area. Honestly though, all I have time for is seeing my old friends who I miss very much. None have kids yet, but I prefer them to making friends will other moms who I may have nothing in common with....

I disagree with the posters who say it's "time to grow up" for your husband. A lot of people here are posting "he NEEDS to" sentences. Well, yes, he probably should be more mature and spend more time with your baby and you, but if he's not feeling it, you can't make him feel it. You can't force anyone to "grow up" and any attempts you make to force it will only make him less likely to want to stay home with the baby on a Saturday night.

Try to understand a bit from his point of view also. This apparently was not a planned pregnancy, which is not your fault or his, but please recognize that he wasn't ready and neither were you, but you're doing your best and perhaps he is also. Having a baby is a huge change in a your life and in your marriage. Give him a little breathing room and allow him to still be 26 years old at times. Please give some effort to keeping your marriage a good one, like having date nights and asking friends over for simple evenings. I know it's a tough time for you, but the days and months will pass. As your son gets a little bit older, your husband might find it easier and more rewarding to interact with him.

Sometimes feeling lonely when you have an infant is a part of the experience of motherhood. You will soon establish your new routines and you'll "find yourself" again. If you have one or two good friends, let them know that you feel lonely and isolated, and they might reach out to you more. And TALK to your husband. Tell him you miss hanging out with friends and going to bars and all that, but that you also find it wonderful to have this child. You can find a compromise. Remind your husband that your son will only be so little and so needy for a couple of years, and you'll both be young still when he's going off to college!

And please don't label yourself as too young. The older mothers who are giving you looks and attitude may be jealous of you deep down because you have the youth and energy that maybe they don't feel. A lot of women who have children in their late 30s to late 40s find it's more exhausting than they ever imagined and confess they wish they'd done it when they were younger.

A friend of mine got married, had two kids, and suddenly found herself with a husband who didn't want to be a father. He insisted on still hanging out with his college buddies, playing golf, and expected his wife (an engineer herself) to stay home and raise the children by herself.

Once she found out he was fooling around on her, she divorced him. At that point her husband's family came to his support, got him the best divorce lawyer in the county, portrayed her as a non-christian mom with questionable abilities and values, and the sympathetic judge awarded HIM the kids! Her ex-husband still has zero interest in raising the kids; they were handed off to his family and she only gets to see them at scheduled visitation times. A true tragedy all around.

To Juliana: You need to grow up! You expect BABIES to adapt to YOUR precious schedule? You're whining that parents' lives can be unpredictable and that's a problem for YOU?

You are (supposedly) a grown-up. Surely you can roll with some schedule changes better than an infant.

I'm glad you're not one of my "friends."

Responding to the childless people who are annoyed that their friends with kids no longer have much time for them: sorry, children need their moms more than you need your girlfriend. I don't even know how to convey to childless people just how overwhelming the needs of children can be. I am married, work, and have two children under 5. Holding it all together is unbelievably difficult. Much, much, much more difficult than being a single person who has to adapt from time to time to the schedule of a parent in order to keep the friendship growing.

Give your friends with small children a break. I have had many very challenging jobs, jobs full of danger, jobs with 24 hour on-call schedules, you name it, and NOTHING is as exhausting or difficult (or rewarding) than having small children. Your friends will come out of it in a few years-- by the time their children are over 5, their lives will be a lot easier. For now, try to accommodate them. When you're in the same boat, if you have children, you'll understand why they need you to be a little more generous for a few years. You'll need the same from your childless friends.

Responding to the childless people who are annoyed that their friends with kids no longer have much time for them: sorry, children need their moms more than you need your girlfriend. I don't even know how to convey to childless people just how overwhelming the needs of children can be. I am married, work, and have two children under 5. Holding it all together is unbelievably difficult. Much, much, much more difficult than being a single person who has to adapt from time to time to the schedule of a parent in order to keep the friendship growing.

Give your friends with small children a break. I have had many very challenging jobs, jobs full of danger, jobs with 24 hour on-call schedules, you name it, and NOTHING is as exhausting or difficult (or rewarding) than having small children. Your friends will come out of it in a few years-- by the time their children are over 5, their lives will be a lot easier. For now, try to accommodate them. When you're in the same boat, if you have children, you'll understand why they need you to be a little more generous for a few years. You'll need the same from your childless friends.

I totally related to this post! I do think it's hard for working moms to break in. We tried Saturday Gymboree -- it was a horrible little clique that we would clearly always be outsiders at. We're trying Fairfax Co rec center classes now -- they are not the same fixed group at the outset so it's a bit easier, plus there are Saturday options. It is frustrating that most of the Mom groups are geared to SAHMs and have hours that don't accommodate working moms. My son is 2 now -- just wait til you see the preschool hours! Like 4 days from 11-4 would work for working families (oh, and if you don't already have him registered, you're sunk).
All I can say is hang in there -- they are more mobile at this age, so you can still socialize a bit more easily. When they're a bit older, they're more interactive, which is easier in a different way and may help your husband get engaged more. Meanwhile, hand him the kid and step back so they can find their own synergy together.
The one thing I didn't relate to was being left out because of being too young. I'm in my 40's and my husband in his 50's -- we're left out at the other end of the spectrum! We're incorporating younger friends. There are two great benefits of being older parents -- all your college friends' kids are the perfect babysitter age, and we're a lot more relaxed about parenting in general. I disagree that we're paying a price -- our child is reaping a benefit!

"Tell your husband it's time to act like a man. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this isn't college and it's unacceptable, particularly with you working as well, for him to be more interested in knocking back a few with the boys then being a father and husband."

Hubby needs to realize that his kid is only young for a little while, but the bitterness and anger he engenders in his spouse can last for a lifetime....through alimony and child support if need be! I hate to say it, but he needs to grow a pair and be a Dad to the child he fathered.

What a great topic. :) I say hang in there and keep trying classes or hanging out at the library or whatever you have to do - all you really need to do is find one or two moms with whom you 'click.' I take business cards to the park with me and hand them out to people... it feels a bit silly but two moms have responded warmly 'cause they were lonely too!

For the issue with your husband - in our relationship (and I'm *cough* older) it's actually me who craves a bit of time out. One solution we've found during the summer are festivals/outdoor concerts/etc. The baby can enjoy them and so can we as a couple and it feels like a party. Sure, it throws the sleep schedule off a little bit (although my son is good about sleeping in a baby carrier), but it's worth it every now and then.

See if you can't hook into something fun and family friendly here and there and it might help.

A lot of you posters need get off the husbands case. The time between 24-30 are the best times for males, you have a good job and you can travel and do the things you want. Male and females of this age like to go out and have a drink, doesn't make them frat boy or girls. Did you talk to him before you decided to have this child, or were you just like I'm having it no matter what.

Uh, Brian, DC, are you aware of how babies are made? Takes two to tango kid - if you want to spend your 24-30 years partying, don't make babies.

In defense of the childless friends (I am one too), we don't expect babies to adapt to our schedule...that is ridiculous. You have to look at our point of view...our friends who have babies complain we never see them...then they never have time or constantly break dates! I am just tired of being made to feel guilty because I have "abandoned" my friends who have kids.
And just for the record, I am not a "childfree kid hater" - I do like kids, especially babies - I just have always known I did not want to have them. And I do babysit for family/friends to give them a night out...

"You expect BABIES to adapt to YOUR precious schedule?"

No, I expect my friends to participate in the give-and-take of maintaining a friendship. Sometimes I should work around them, sometimes they should work around me. I have important non-child-related commitments in my life that take my time and energy, but my desire to maintain my friendships means that sometimes I am willing to adjust my schedule to meet my friends' needs. I ask only that they sometimes do the same for me.

"sorry, children need their moms more than you need your girlfriend."

Ah, but the point of this conversation is about the *mom* (Moira) needing *her* girlfriends. My point was simply that maybe she can take some steps to stay in closer touch with her pre-baby friends.

"I'm glad you're not one of my 'friends'"

Um ... no need to worry about that, I assure you.

I'm single, never been married, and not likely to have children at this point. (This might explain the two dogs and three birds-smile.) I watched all my college friends get married and have kids, and spent those years feeling left out and lonely. Fortunately, I have many other blessings in my life and have learned to be happy in myself. It's interesting to hear the other side of "having it all" (in my view) and being lonely. My suggestions are based on my friends' experiences....Join a church, synagogue, or local recreation center if your county or city has one and you're not religious. They have plenty of activities on weekends, and it is a tremendous way to make new friends and a great way to network to find babysitters. If you live near a park or schoolyard, take the baby for walks and you'll probably meet people. Compromise with your husband - he gets one "evening out" (not "night" out, but home at a reasonable hour) with the boys, and you get one evening out a month with your friends while he stays home. And another out together, just the two of you, with someone else watching the baby. Hang in there - having the blessing of watching my friends' children grow up, I can assure it's all worthwhile.

I was 33 and DH was 30 when our daughter was born. We did not meet each other till I was 30 and he was 27 years old. So technically we did not have the opportunity to make babies earlier. I would not worry about being the youngest mother. I actually envy your youth. I am only guessing that I would have had more energy to deal with the sleepless nights 10 years early. Also this area is very affluent and the typical first time mother is about 5 years older then the typical first time mother in other areas. I think anything past HS, is an acceptable age to start parenting. Since when did you need a masters degree and a 6 figure income to be a parent. As long as the child's basic needs are met and well loved they will be fine. I think their are pros and cons to being an older parent. DH and I did a lot of travel both domestically and internationally before DD arrived. Now, we are not so put off by going to spend a week at WDW versus flying to Asia or a cool skiing trip. Also we have a significantly more disposable income. The huge day care costs, classes, retirement, and college education funds are easier to come by when you are a mid level professional rather then your first job out of grad school or college. Also, my DD is the last grand child on my side of the family. The advice and hand me downs are immesurable. I would die without my SILs. Also older cousins get a huge kick out of the last family baby. DD is the first grand child on DH side. She gets the best of both worlds. What are the down sides? The biggest being she will probably never have a sibling. I truly believe that if we had kids even 5-7 years earlier, we would have had the energy to have a second. Also DH is in a higher management position. He can't devote the time necessary for baby #2. So there are pros and cons. I certainly don't shun younger mothers. Again the biggest obstacle is probably your working status. As far as your husband, he does need to grow up. His single bachelor or DINK days are over. He has something far better then a beer with his friends. He has someone who will look up and look toward him for life. Julianna or whoever talked about her GFs ditching her after having a baby. I am sorry but it happens. Kids are an overwhelming responsibility. You can never ditch the title mom. You will be a mom till the day you die. It is just a fact. Bear with them. Friendships circle around. And I bet in less then 10 years, you will be the one showing off your baby pictures and talking about little Susie nonstop. Let your friends know you are still interested but give them a few years.

Moira, I can definitely understand where you're coming from. My husband and I were the first in our group of friends (we're both 25 and our friends are roughly the same age) to get pregnant, and then subsequently the first to have a miscarriage. If pregnancy was new to our friends, miscarriage was totally out of left field. The type of miscarriage we had precludes us from trying again for about a year, so now we're what--able to go out to bars and hang out with friends late, but still in the place where we wanted a child and don't have one.

What an interesting topic! I would like to second the poster who mentioned getting to know the neighbors. In a transient area like DC, community is all the more important. I used to live in Northern Virginia and then in DC. There's nothing wrong with those areas but they are worlds away from the neighborhood I've found. FWIW, I live in the historic part of Hyattsville. Every evening there are couples of all ages (and races and ethnicities) walking their strollers and their dogs along the streets or in the park. I know that we'll have a tremendous support network when we do have children because we already babysit for neighbors or help out when they need a hand. My husband and I still go out a lot since DC is so close by, but you can't help meeting kids and their parents when they come trick-or-treating on Halloween. Maybe I'm a wimp, but I know my limits and even without having kids, know I'll need the support of a community (particularly with no family around). I know that changing where you live isn't a solution for everyone (and it's always a trade off), but there are definitely some communities that provide more resources if you want/need them.

Moira:

First off - congratulations on a healthy baby. I know you're feeling cr@ppy, but at least you should take a little solace in that.

Two - yes, check with Fairfax County. They have all sorts of cool weekend stuff so you can meet other Moms like you. Also, check with the Smithsonian Resident Associate Program, they have a lot of weekday stuff, but they also have weekend stuff as well.

Three - ignore the other Moms. Trust me, they're jealous that you have the physical energy to stay up until 10, and that you'll be done paying college tuition before you're 50. I wish I could have had a baby at your age - old enough to be a bit mature, but young enough to still have the stamina.

Four - invite your friends over on a weekend, make your husband spend some time with the baby, and talk to your friends about almost anything but the baby. Or call your friends, and arrange to hit one of the many museums in town and find a kid-friendly place for lunch where the baby can hang out in his stroller while you guys eat. It is possible - I've had friends do it. My mother did it. And you'll be happier if you're a person who happens to be a parent, as opposed to mostly a parent. (Good for Henry, too - he can be used to being out and about before he hits tantrummy ages.)

Finally - call your husband on his behaviour. Nicely and firmly, but do it. You didn't get pregnant by yourself. He's a father now, he needs to grow up. And if he says he's too young, don't buy it. Consider this:

My parents - nice Catholic kids back in the mid-60's - got married when my Mom was 19 and my Dad was 20. By the time they were 25 and 26, they had three kids, a 5 y/0, a 3 y/o and an infant. My father was in medical school and finishing up his internship during this time period - not a whole lot of spare time. My mom even tried to continue nursing school after my brother (the oldest) was born, but just couldn't continue after she got pregnant with my sister. And to top it all off, shortly after I was born (the youngest), Dad was sent to Vietnam for a year.

Despite all this, my Dad has always helped where he could and my parents have *always* had date night at least twice a month in one form or another. Sometimes it took the form of hanging out with another young married parent couple - all us kids went to bed in one or two bedrooms, and the parents stayed up drinking wine and playing cards. You can still hang and be a parent, you know. It's just instead of a bar, you're listening to CD's and grabbing your beer out of someone's fridge.

Parenthood is adjustment. Make your husband understand that if he helps out a bit, you might be willing to stay up later than 10 and have a fun night out, too.

Good luck and enjoy your baby. :D

I recommend that your family go to events like the "Movie on the Mall" and the Friday evening jazz concerts at the National Gallery of Art sculpture garden. These are free events that you can meet your other unmarried, unparent friends at and everyone can enjoy a picnic together (and the sangria at National Gallery is quite good!). You may need to leave a bit earlier than others to get the kid to bed but all will understand. While you are there, you can keep an eye open for other families and introduce yourself. Just by keeping a weekly routine, you will start to recognize other families and that will give you an opening. Love the idea of meeting neighbors also-- spend evenings after dinner at your local park or just walking around the block.

Your husband is in a tough place. I wonder if he really misses his friends or if he really misses you. My father was always very irritated at the way my sister and I took all of my mother's attention. He always thought her attention should have been on him. It's not right or wrong; it's just the way it was (and is).

They had date night. Saturday nights were, and still are, sacred in our house. Even if they didn't go out, they dressed up, cooked dinner together and ate with the silver and china by candlelight. They never bothered with cleaning up until Sunday morning and there was no talk of children on Saturday night. It was a night just for the two of them. It didn't change my dad's point of view but it did help balance things.

I really think that when you live a young-partygoing lifestyle and then have a baby you really need to re-balance your lives. My wife and I are working through this as well. Your new life will never be just like the old one, but you have the ability to make it even better, certainly more fulfilling. Date nights are very important to keeping you and the spouse energized and out of the day-to-day ruts of being a parent.

I think the "tell your husband to just GET OVER IT" argument completely misses the point. When has telling someone that ever worked? Get with him and spend some enjoyable time and that will make it easier transition out of 'hanging out with the boys every free minute' mode.

At 10 months, Henry is also getting to a phase where he will be fun for your husband to play with. Right around 11 mos. I figured out how to teach my little guy to play a modified game of 'catch'. (He rolls it.) It cracks us up.

Long story short - Have fun as a couple and have fun as a family. Help hubby figure out how to have fun with his little boy. He will need the bigger boys less and all will be well.

Two couples that we socialize regularly with do not have children yet. The first couple has been "trying" for 7 years and second couple is living together and not married and not ready for children. I assume at some point, they will decide to be childless or move on to trying to have a baby. Anyway, this is one way we deal with the socializing. Once a month all three couples have dinner together. We rotate houses. When it is your house, you make the main dish, and the other two couples bring sides and dessert. Although, our dishes are mainly store bought except at our home, the couples seem to be OK with that. It is not that we don't have time once a month to cook, I just prefer not to. But the deal was that we get to bring our kid along. Originally when the idea was brought up, the invitation did not include our daughter. So I said we will participate this time and get a sitter but we normally can't do this and leave her with a sitter. We do our best to save sitter times for dates for just the two of us or events that are absolutely not toddler friendly-like the theater or movies or fancy resturants that serve you with actual napkins. Couple #1 was very offended. Because they were infertile, they were going through a phase of I don't want to see kids just right now. I respect that but they also have to deal with we have a kid and nothing is going to change that. You know what I did. I took GF to lunch, just the two of us. DH stayed with the baby. We laughed, talked, and cried about her situation. I gave her a book on dealing with infertility and I read it before giving it to her. I told her if she is ever having a day or week that she is not up to seeing kids, let me know. We have no problems sitting at home and letting the other two couples get together. Never had a problem since then. Occassionally the three couples or two couples want to get together for a more mature event. Either DH attends without me or I attend with out him. But for the most part we try to find activities that we can all enjoy. We go annually to a tree farm and pumpkin patch. We enjoy game nights (board games) at each other's house. It will be years if ever that we will be going to theme parks or puppet shows together. But it has been worth the extra effort. The best thing and the hardest thing is to make friends with other young parents. Eventually, the kids grow up and make friends of their own. So even dragging them to see the family friends die out. But I still like to hear updates on some of the children of family friends of my childhood. And you know what, my parents friends are still thrilled to hear about our lives. It takes a village to raise a kid. These other adults add to each child's life experience. They become defacto "aunts" and "uncles."

Another thought. When I was growing up, my parents met with friends who also had kids on Friday or Saturday nights. They got together and played cards (Maj Jong since we are Chinese Americans). There was often another room with a TV and/or VCR and/or games or books for kids that came long. The games rotated between homes. They got to spend time with friends, my dad had his beer and they had some relaxing times with friends who also had kids and no sitters, etc. Think about finding some other young couples with children and starting up a night to just get together. Play games (part games like Apples-2-Apples, Taboo, Scattergories, etc are god starters) or cards or just hang out. Hunt around for activities for your son and just keep an eye out for other young parents about your age...when you find them, invite them over...break the ice and you'll get started.

TV (preferably Big and HD) and beer (ideally from CO2 power beer dispenser) will bring Papi into line and save this marriage.

Once hubby realizes how much the little one loves spending time with Daddy watching the Redskins while sitting in the pile of warm laundry all will right itself. The first time jr says "Cheers" and clicks that ba ba or sippy cup to your long neck will be a time, to remember.

As the little one gets older, go watch the games of Washington or Georgetown RFC so hubby can get his fill of frat boy fun. Or for rainy days or a less testosterone filled day out, the DC museums are VERY daddy and stroller friendly - Dulles is COOL...Smithsonian etc too - and the price? Free.

You're less than a year on this journey. Hubbums will come around - just find some common ground. If that doesnt work you can yell and nag and tell him he HAS to change his ways or ELSE! (this last bit of advice is on a par for base stupidity with the advice to have another kid right away.)

Moira,

You say it's perfectly okay for people to have kids later, which is true, and also okay for them to look down on you as a "pregnant teenager." NOT true. I don't know why it has become socially acceptable to sneer at having babies in your 20s, as if this makes you a redneck or a fundamentalist. Well, I had a baby at 29 and I'm a professional with a Ph.D. Don't let them get you down--they're just jealous! Tell your husband you need his support and keep an eye out for other working parents in the same boat. Good luck.

My husband and I married young but delayed over 7 years before starting our family. I was 28 and he was almost 30 for the first baby. I also waited until HE agreed it was "time". I guess we felt ready.

But I still felt VERY lonely and unsupported in the first years. It certainly did not help that we lived far from family and made a major cross-country move soon after the birth. My husband somehow thought we would still have all our old friends, activities, daily sex (hah!),etc PLUS a baby. That simply isn't possible. He resented it; I resented it AND him.

We eventually grew into our new roles. But it often takes longer for the guy. He does not have all those pregnancy and birth hormones preparing him for the changes. But he is not off the hook. Get a sitter, take him out, and have a heart-to-heart talk with him about your needs and feelings and listen to his. Respect each others needs. Compromises have to be made, but make sure neither of you gives up what is really important to you.

If everyone waited until they were totally "ready" (educated, mature,decent house, jobs, money, sitters, world traveled, etc) to have kids, there would be almost none born! (Checkout the negative birth rates in Europe and Japan!)

You can do it. Also, post-partum depression, should you suspect it, is no joke - it's a serious illness. Get any help you need right away.

Good luck, dear.

This discussion is better than therapy. Great advice all around. Good to be back.

OK, when I read the title of today's blog I thought it would be about single lonely professionals trying to figure their way through the world of coupledom. I find that an interesting topic. Is anyone else interested in that? Future blog topic?

To those of you frustrated with singles who are frustrated with parents:

I'm a young, single female who would LOVE to have a husband and babies right now. But like Juliana and other posters here, I've watched many of my friends get married and have kids, as I've remained single. And most of these friends have since put zero effort into maintaining friendships with me and other old friends, all the while complaining that they're lonely.

I find this very hurtful. Not just because they no longer seem to value my friendship, and because they take my efforts to keep it up for granted -- but because they complain about loneliness when they HAVE a great husband and beautiful children. I don't deny the loneliness Moira and and my young-mother friends feel -- but I'd just like them to get a bit of perspective. I'm single and childless -- I don't have anyone waiting for me when I go home; I'm not blessed with the hugs and kisses of a sticky toddler every day.

Treasure what you have; and display some sensitivity to those around you who'd love to have it to, but can't find it.

And then assauge your own loneliness, and theirs, by putting back some effort into those old friendships.

I totally understand how you feel Moira!

I'm 26, I became pregnant (whoops!) a month after moving to a new city, starting a new job and turning 23. I lost all my college friends because I left their city and couldn't go out and have fun at bars anymore. And because I still work I have had a very hard time finding new friends here. All the people my age at work are just getting married and not even thinking kids! My 2 1/2 yr old daughter has become my best friend (and she told me the other day that I'm hers!). It is lonely. I'm thinking of moving back to NoVa where my husband's family is but part of me knows it'll be hard living where I used to have so much fun and so many friends. Keep your chin up and find your strength and joy in yourself and your son. I'd love to be your friend!

Your husband will come around soon. I think maybe a few counseling sessions might help. I went a few times to work out the feelings of loss I've had with what used to be my old life. He's just trying to hang on and needs help moving forward.

Here Here! It's all about your neighorhood. As a new parent, where ever you can find other young parents is a blessing. But when you're working and taking care of a newborn (by yourself it seems), you probably don't want to drive or metro very far to find activities or friends. If you're not in a kid-friendly neighborhood, move. It doesn't even have to be far. Sometimes even a few blocks or a municipality or two over can make a difference!

I'm 37 and the mom of an 18 month old. I envy young moms their youth b/c I wish I'd started having kids when I was younger. I would like my son to have a brother or sister, but I don't know if I have the stamina to handle pregnancy and sleepless nights again.

SAHMs feel the loneliness, too. I thought I would make lots of new mom friends in playgroups, but I've yet to connect with other moms. Maybe I'm just a natural 'loner', but the groups and classes I've been to seem very cliqueish. Also, I'm not a rich SAHM. We get by, but there aren't a lot of extras. I'm staggered by the wealth I've experienced living in this area. Where are the normal, middle class moms?

A.M. - I have to completely disagree with your assessment that the "DH" cannot be "told" to change. DH is not a 5 year old, he's a grown man who has made certain decisions (marriage, children) and has a wife who obviously feels overwhelmed and unsupported. Sorry, but when you are a grown up you need to prioritize your life. Moira's hubby obviously is uninterested in doing so, which to me raises a small red flag about his interest in being a good father. He shouldn't HAVE TO BE told that it's not right to still want to party all night, and the fact that it appears that he does would make me worry about the kinds of values he will instill in his son.

On a related note, I will just say that as a woman without children, I think Juliana's point is well taken. For example, I am close with my sister, but having a conversation with her on the phone is impossible b/c my nephew constantly interrupts/needs something, etc .. at a point, I just told her, when he's napping, call me back so we can chat. It wasn't to be rude, it wasn't to ask her to value me over her son, but no one was getting anywhere b/c she couldn't focus on both me and my nephew. I know it is difficult for parents, especially parents of newborns to "make time" that is uninterrupted w/friends and family, but there is a middle ground where all parties can feel as though they are spending quality time together.

Hi Moira, thanks for sharing your story and situation. Although I am not a mother, I do understand and sympathize with what your going through. I have a similar situation. I have the same situation but without a baby.

Most of all of my "friends" have children and I don't. I'm single, I do not have children and do not have a boyfriend but what I do have is a lot of time on my hands. Man, I am TOTALLY bored! I am in need of some single or married, mature friends that are willing to take the time to spend with friends. I would love to meet people who recognize how very important true friendships are and establishing them and more importantly, keeping them.

I guess I had it all wrong. Being single, I felt that having a family was everything. That it would solve all my problems of being alone and feelings lonely sometimes but after reading your story, I see that isn't so.

I haven't had a chance to read what others wrote to you but I think that you were on the right road with looking into joining classes, it's too bad it didn't work out. It's not your fault, the timing was just bad. I hope that you were given some good advice.

I sincerely and deeply wish that you find a way to combat this aloneness that you feel. The feeling of isolation, as if it's just you and your baby (sometimes); God, I feel the same way sometimes.

Often times, I feel it is just me against the world. - Well, anyway, I wish for you that things will get better for both you and your husband and that the two of you will be able to bond and become closer and be able to adjust to having a new baby. I would love to see how things works out, who knows, perhaps you can give me some advice. If you would like to talk please e-mail me at: Blackbird2040@aol.com - Hope to talk to you soon. - Good Luck and Hang in There, V.

I think it is weird that people are concerned about the mommy "cliques" at places like Gymboree. When my daughter was little I didn't worry about whether the other mom's would like me. The cliques at places like that form because of signing up for the same class session after session. Ignore it and it will embrace you.

In the end, I think it was my self confidence and general aloofness towards the "clique" that made them curious enough to start to talk to me. You need to feel comfortable being alone before others will feel comfortable in approaching you.

Thank you so much for this post - there are a lot more of us in your situation than it may seem at times. I'm 29 and having our first, and even I feel like I stick out like a sore thumb in my office and among our friends. Our first friends to have a baby did last year and they were 36 and 40. So we are on the young end in our group too. It's not much comfort, but there are more of us out there! We're due soon and I wouldn't be surprised at all if my DH and I deal with the exact same issues as you two...

I would like commend Fo3 and other men who have written in to say that the 'tell him to get over it' comments AREN'T helpful or even realistic. We try very hard in our marriage to stick to the "what would I think if he/she said that to me?"rule - and if my husband spoke to me that way about something I'd be pretty p*ssed off. It's not constructive. Fo3 makes some great points - right now, your son is still truly a baby, and it's tough for a lot of men to feel confident about spending one-on-one time. My cousin said that until his son was about 1.5 yrs old, he just didn't know what to do with him. Now they are inseparable. Fo3's ideas about shared activities are great - if the baby is in a good mood and not too cranky, how about hitting Crystal City Sports Pub with some friends, bring the baby, and when Henry gets tired, you two can head home and he can get a ride with a friend. It's a compromise, sure. You may prefer that he go home when you two do; but if easing into group activities like this that mix baby time and adult time can help you find balance, then do it. Best of luck sweetheart, and thanks again for sharing your story!

1. Loneliness - I sympathize with your loneliness. As a single with no children I find it very hard to meet people in the DC area and the other cities I've lived in. In the past month or so I've seen a couple of articles about the increasing isolation of Americans. It seems that the average American has fewer friends that he or she can confide in than 20-30 years ago. While this knowledge hasn't necessarily increased my number of friends it has helped me in that I realize this is a problem for many people now and I am not the only one with the problem. It's made me feel more comfortable reaching out to other people.
2. Friends without kids - I know when many of my friends had kids I was very interested in staying in touch and hearing about their kids. However I did get tired of never being asked about what was going on with me in my life and hearing about nothing but their children. These friendships died because of this. Your friends may be willing to make some compromises to see you but be sure to ask them about themselves.

I'd second the importance of maintaining your non-child friendships - it can really help you remember who you are outside of motherhood, which I think is really important to staying sane.

It takes work and accomodation on both sides, in my experience. When I was single, I had several friends with kids and we just did things at their house most often, and I knew I just needed to chill sometimes while they dealt with the stuff that comes up with kids. Now my friends make the same accomodations to me, and I make an effort to make sure I spend some time with them sans bebe so we can have real conversations. And I try to call them when my son is sleeping, or when I'm commuting (with my headset on, of course) so we're not constantly interrupted. And I finally learned that it's ok for me to go out and if my son misses me and cries a little bit, that's ok too.

It's a give and take, and the first few months are the hardest, but I think it's really worthwhile.

All of this can be lonely.
Is there a parent's group at your son's day care? There was an active one where my son was in preschool, and that was a way to meet people.
If there isn't - start one! See if you can organize a pizza night for parents - collect something like $10 per family and order pizza (the school might allow you to use their place). This would be a way to meet other parents, perhaps in your neighborhood.
It took me a while to find out about a parent's association in my neighborhood - ask around about that.
If you don't find one, put up posters with your name/number telling people you'd like to meet them - or put an ad in a local paper. It's all exhausting, since you're already exhausted from working and taking care of the kid - but it's doable.
If you don't know where to start, maybe there's a civic association in your neighborhood?
It doesn't matter when you have kids, everyone's different. If you start young, you maybe have more energy, if you start later, you maybe have more experience. There are pros and cons to being younger, being older, etc. It doesn't really matter in the long run, actually.
But really, get your husband on board - there's no reason to feel like you're doing this all by yourself. And getting others to help - i.e., swapping babysitting with neighbors, or something like that, is needed.
I don't know where in the world we created the concept that children should be raised by ONLY the mom and dad - truly, we'd have many more depressed and unhappy parents if they didn't accept help from others. There's no shame in getting help - it's about impossible to do it otherwise. We're trying to raise children, not martyrs.

I'm 47, my youngest is 10 y/o. That means his friends parents could be 32. I have always liked the young moms, I think we get along, please don't worry about that!
Have people over. Then hubby can party all night while baby sleeps.
Go places with baby. My youngest napped in the car or stroller. Or went to bed early at night if he missed his nap. I wish I'd know how flexible babies can be when I had my oldest, and made myself a slave to his schedule. Not necessary.
Good luck!!

I hate to say this...but if you're single there is absolutely NO WAY you can really understand. Yes it's hard to find people but you don't have to coerce or ask someone else to take your child in order to go out anywhere by yourself, take a class, etc.
Moira, feel free to e-mail me at sararosemingo@hotmail.com if you want atleast an e-mail buddy that understands.

"I'm staggered by the wealth I've experienced living in this area. Where are the normal, middle class moms?"

In the normal middle-class communities, of course :)

Moira, I don't have children yet, but I cannot imagine that your husbands' friends are so shallow that they think it's okay he's out partying with them when there's a newborn at home. If a new dad continually came out with our group (leaving wife and baby at home), you can bet he'd get LOADS of questions and looks of death. Perhaps you should mention to him that his friends probably tolerate his presence but think he's a loser for not shirking his responsibilities. I mean, honestly, who could respect someone like that? He's probably fooling himself if he thinks his friends still think he's the cool frat boy.

hubby needs tlc. he needs to feel he is still important to his wife, and not replaced by the baby. He wants to go out and have fun. Immature? yes. Selfish? yes. But its the reality of hubby's feelings that need to be dealt with. (And of course he needs to shape up, I'm just saying he may not see it that way.)

You are in a normal period of transition. Hang in there and try to enjoy your baby. Try to find some family together time at the parks and be sure to bring dad along.

Many have walked your path and many more will.

"Hang in there Moira" suggested taking a baby to a sports bar .. um .. hello .. are you serious?

Also, it's fine and dandy to take an attitude of "how would I feel if (spous) said something to me like that" if you are talking about a choice in attire or whether or not you "looked fat" in something but this is a CHILD we are talking about.

Moira is obviously willing to raise this problem in a very public forum that will no doubt get back to her husband (as well as all these responses) so I think the time to say "how would I feel if he said that to me" is over. I am guessing she's already tried to discuss this problem with her husband and he doesn't seem interested in remedying the situation. I hate to say it, but it's not a very far trip from a guy hanging out with his buddies to having a wandering eye, to saying, who needs this responsibility and leaving. If Moira's hubby won't accept counseling and a swift kick in the pants, it would tell me he's not interested in being the right kind of husband and father.

ToSpringfieldmom: hey, I live in Springfield too. DD did mygym all last year. I don't work on Fridays. I did not find it very cliquish but I was only interested in wearing out my kid. Most parents did not stick around long enough to actually socialize. Also some people drove pretty far to get there. So I don't think every one actually lived in the same neighborhood. Don't worry about the lavish lifestyle in the DC area. My guess is quite a lot of them are in debt up to their eyeballs-credit card debt, car loans, little to no savings and interest only loans are attributing to the lifestyles all around the country now.

Perhaps if one of her goal is to stay connected to her non-parent, it would be best not to assume that there is "NO WAY" they could understand.

One of my very best friends was the first to have a kid and yes, things to do change. But we never lost interest in each other. I asked about her munchkin and what was going on in her life and she asked about school and work and what was going on in my life. Yes, it's definitely different (I went to the circus with them for possibly the first time in 14 years) but if the friendship is worth it, you'll both adapt.

Hey folks...let's go easy on the Dad. This family has undergone a major life change, the addition of a baby to their family. With any major life change, comes changes in routine, compromises on what you can and can't do and just stress and pressure to live with what you or life has wrought.

Everyone handles those changes differently and on different schedules. Just because one partner was fully committed and ready for such a change faster, doesn't make it easier (in fact, it can add stress and make it harder on him that he's "not holdin up his end of the bargain) to accept the changes. Yes, he wants to party and live his old life, and another way to deal is to wean himself off. As a 2-household working family, perhaps they can arrange for an evening or two off to go and have a night out with the boys. If they both need it, then they alternate, say every other Friday, Dad gets off and every other Friday Mom gets off for an evening out relaxing. Many people cannot just make a major life change and move smoothly into a new rhythm and life.
After some time, when he adjusts, that night may become either date night or something else. I know one friend who originally created Mom's night out to force her husband to spend more time with their kid and to have time off for herself. Later, she hada problems finding things to do on Mom's night out but had to maintain it because Dad and son got into a regular activity that night that didn't work for her. After time, she was looking for things to occupy her "night off."

I agree that he has to make the change, but to do so with an ultimatum isn't always the best way to go. This ultimatum, "get a life and grow up" attitude whether it comes from the husband or the wife, can often cause more harm than help in the couples' relationship.

"Hang in there Moira" suggested taking a baby to a sports bar .. um .. hello .. are you serious?

sports bar, restaurant, what ever, take the baby and go where hubby wants to go. take baby bowling, to the golf course, to the mall, the park, just go.
Assign hubby to the weekend early am baby shift. Mom needs more sleep. Then he will be to tired to go out carousing on sat night!

Just another opinion- I've found it very difficult to maintain my relationships with my childless friends, since I had kids. It's like we're in 2 different worlds, and it's pretty hard to reconcile them. (Childless people really don't get it when you keep having to cancel or change plans unexpectedly, which I've become accustomed to, for example. I don't blame them- I didn't understand either before I became a mom.)

I've been lucky enough to make a lot of new friends who do have kids, and we "get" each other much better. But I do miss my old friends. Sort of an unintended consequence of becoming a parent.

'I know one friend who originally created Mom's night out to force her husband to spend more time with their kid and to have time off for herself.'

Brilliant!

As far as the sports bar - I have been to that particular one, and it really isn't a place I would bring a child. There are lots of restaurants in this area that are a much better fit.

>>>I hate to say it, but it's not a very far trip from a guy hanging out with his buddies to having a wandering eye, to saying, who needs this responsibility and leaving.>>

For those keeping track, the little digs started almost immediately, but the hard-core male bashing didn't kick in until 11:35. Baby steps! By next week it won't happen until lunch time.

Wow, Moira's blog brings back memories. I was just shy of my 31st birthday when I had my daughter, and my ex-husband had just turned 26. We experienced many of the same things that Moira and others describe. While my ex-husband loved his baby very much, he still had the irresponsible party attitude. And yes, we found that many of our pre-pregnancy friends who did not have children did not want to socialize with us anymore.

How did we deal with it? In retrospect, not too well. It was easy enough to slip into a new social circle of other couples with children, but my ex-husband's drinking did not slow down and became a real problem. We went to marriage counseling; after several months, the counselor recommended in-patient treatment for my ex-husband's alcoholism. He refused. Less than two years later, we had separated and subsequently divorced.

Hopefully Moira's husband is simply holding on to his youth and they do not have these other issues. A change in friends with similar lifestyles would definitely help. Also, the aforementioned date nights are imperative to keeping the romance alive. Also, try working out a schedule that allows each of you a "girl's night out" and a "boy's night out" a couple of times per month. Several married couples I know do this, and all are happily married with well-adjusted kids.

There is no way you can understand until you have children. You think you can. But you can't. I didn't before I had my daughter. That's all I was trying to say.

As someone who will be a father soon and whose bed-rested wife has already caused a change of schedule, I feel little sympathy for an uninvolved dad. When my wife and I made the decision to have kids (twins as it turns out) we both knew that life would change significantly. Becuase of complications it has happened earlier than I thought, but being involved in your kids lives, even at the very youngest ages, is important. I can't imagine his friends not knowing that, and he should too.

As for the outsider mom, I get the impression that motherhood is like high school in some regards and not always the best way. Try to find groups that are mom + baby in activities you used to enjoy and find the other new members there. They are most likely to be sympathetic to a new mom who needs friends.

I'm six months pregnant, and wondering how my social life is going to look post-baby, as well. I'm 29 and my partner is 35. None of our friends here have children yet; one couple is due any day so at least we won't be going first! We had already outgrown the bar-hopping for the most part. We're more coffee shop/dinner party people at this point. We got pregnant sooner than we were planning to, but we're both very involved with our nephews and niece's lives, so "baby" isn't a foreign concept, at least. (Ironically, we are also both the oldest in our respective families, which makes all this talk about "young" parents rather amusing, doesn't it.)

I think we may have found an interesting solution to the socializing issue, though obviously not one that will work for everybody: a sailboat. We bought one with another couple that we're friends with, and it's become the standard Sunday activity now. The boat wasn't even expensive, and it gets our butts off of the couch on the weekends. It's certainly not hard to talk our friends into joining us on the boat. We take picnic lunches and lots of cold drinks and just chill out on the bay for the day. Beats the hell out of stinky bar!

By the time sailing season starts next year, our baby will be old enough to take on the boat with us no problem. The couple we own the boat with don't have children yet, but they are very excited about our baby. Both the husband and wife are involved with their nieces and nephews, and they seem to see our baby as an extension of that, not an obstacle to hanging out with us.

Down the road, my partner and I both see sailing as a great venue for family time, as well as lots of daddy-daughter bonding when I can't join them. Practicing all those figure-eight knots has to be good for the fine motor skills!

I've also been checking out neighborhood playgroups. Listservs are a godsend! Three months ago, I had no idea how I was going to handle this, but these days I feel much more confident. One thing that reassures me is that my core friend group is full of people who are all very excited that we're having a baby. They don't have children (some of them don't want children of their own at all), but they sure like the idea of hanging out with ours. I hope that is still true once my little one arrives.

I'm currently reading the fascinating book "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert" by John Gottman. This is the guy who can predict divorces in 5 years by watching a 15-minute discussion between a couple.

Anyway, one of the things that struck me is that 70% of married women experience a sharp decrease in marital satisfaction after the birth of the first child. The other 30% had it stay the same or even increase. Gottman says the difference between these two groups is that the husband joins the wife in the parenthood journey, rather than feeling left out, resentful, or wishing things were the way they used to be. I think he gave specific suggestions for how men could deal with this, but I didn't really pay attention to this part of the book.

My wife likes it when I go over to my friends' houses to escape/party. She finds it comforting that I'm still likable enough to actually have a few friends left, even though they may be whack jobs on their own account. I like to be able to say what I think, laugh at my friends jokes, jam heavy metal tunes, pound brewskies, smoke pot and cigaretts and have a few hours of social time outside my family. When I stumble back home, I'm a very happy daddy, and the wife & kids love me for that. Thank you, friends, for giving me that escape! It's just what the doctor ordered!

I think Single at 45 made the best suggestion to solve Moira's loneliness problem so far: Join a church. They usually meet every Sunday. Involve yourself with charity. Helping somebody out less fortunate than you are really saps the self-pity out of your soul.

For what it's worth, when I became a mom at 28, I felt like the youngest parent on the planet in DC (I've since moved to Houston and had the tables turned).

My husband and I decided pretty quickly that if we were going to be the only ones with children, our daughter would have lots of "aunties" and "uncles". Our daughter went everywhere with us. While it did not keep us from feeling a little lost in parenthood, we rarely felt lonely.

Our advice would be: don't underestimate your friends or your baby. If your childless friends like coffee or Happy Hour, look for outdoor locations. Let your baby nap in the stroller every now and again. My husband and I put our daughter in the Baby Bjorn and she was out in the world as soon as the doctor said it was OK. She saw her first baseball game at 8 weeks. Your life as twety-somethings doesn't need to end, just flex.

Four years later, we are sane and our daughter is incredibly sociable & adaptable.

I am sure that there are some people who are living beyond there means, but some of us aren't. We have a large house, no cc or car debt, and a conventional mortgage. We got lucky in that we chose to live frugally when we were younger and now that we are in our 30's we are in clover. There IS a lot of money in this area. Some of my neighbors have a lot more than we do, but I don't wonder how they are paying for it. I assume they are working! Not everyone who has a big house and a nice car is in debt. This is a rich country. But after a while, you get used to living as an adult, you don't buy so much crap, and you stop playing with it. No one who met me or my husband would think about our financial situation unless they came to our house. Then the only thing they might think is "why don't they have more stuff?" I can't stand maintaining things, that's why.

Tosingle45: don't you find that religous groups in general put a huge emphasis on family. I think it leaves single people out of the equation a lot of times. At least that is what I found when I was a young single person. Maybe I belong to the wrong church.

Sure, head to a sports bar. It's the best way to ensure that your child will develop lung cancer and be able to get rich quick by suing tobacco companies for second hand smoke damage.

Works for me.

Lieu - I agree to some extent on the church thing - though at least when you are young and single there is usually a Young Singles group to join. When you are over 40 and divorced, you may as well be invisible. Or maybe they wish you are..

Anyone out there know a church that would welcome and older, divorced woman?

Finding activities that those with kids and without can enjoy is definitely key. The sailboat sounds great, but for those of us for whom that is not an option, there are lots of other landlocked, cheaper ways too. Picnics in the park, like someone mentioned. Music festivals. Some bars are a possibility if there's a smoking ban in effect - I took our son with me to hear my husband's acoustic band play in some bars when he was small enough that he was content to sit in my lap or be in the sling, and it worked out fine. Cookouts at your house. Stuff that's low-key, provides some built-in entertainment for the babes, but is not excessivly kid-focused.

Tospringfieldmom: I wasn't implying everyone is in debt. DH and I are not in debt. We have no cc debt, no student loans, no car paymetns and a conventional mortgage. I just know a lot of my friends have all the debt imaginable. They take lavish nice vacations twice a year. I am just saying across this country, serious debt is mounting. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and a good out look on life.

I think that loneliness is inherent in the transition from childless to parent. I read somewhere recently that the two most lonely times in a woman's life are pregnancy and death. I think that there is a lot of good advice within the above posts, and I hope that it helps Moira, and others as well. I am 31, about to be a mom, and also feeling pretty lonely. I am excited, and so is my husabnd, but that doesn't mean this isn't a big lifestyle change that will affect both of us profoundly, and in different ways. It already has affected me more than he in many respects, simply because of the limitations that are put on you in pregnancy. I hope to be one of those moms, those couples, where we take the baby out with us everywhere, but I know that nothing will be the same as it was before. better in some ways, worse in others. Good luck Moira, and good luck to all the parents out there.

Tomissicat: my church used to have a 40s something group. It was suppose to correspond to their twenties and thirties group. But what they found was the 20s and 30s crowd sometimes remained single into their 40s. And some of the divorced 30s turned into the single at 40 crowd. The group did not last. It sort of pittered out in a few years. Good luck finding a group. I don't know when religion became so family oriented. After all, wasn't Jesus a single man in his 30s???

Hey d.c. mom to be--do you need any new friends? My kids are babysittin' age! I could use some time on the bay! What a great idea. Maybe I can convince my husband we need a boat more than a hottub. Good luck, and I hope your new sailor doesn't get seasick! And as you dive down into motherhood, don't forget to take a l-o-n-g snorkel so you get a breath of life without children now and again. It won't be like breathing above the surface, but it will keep you alive!

FO4--if you lived in Maryland, I would swear I know you. Did you watch Mary-Louise Parker last night?

I second the idea of getting to know your neighbors/joining a civic association. Also, check out non-chain kid friendly places & arrange to meet your friends for drinks/dinner with Henry in tow -- there are a ton (especially now that the weather is nice and you can sit outside -- which is great for a kid that age -- lots to look at). You don't say where you are in NoVa, but look into Del Ray in Alexandria (pretty much all the restaurants are happy to have kids and are popular with the single crowd as well) or places in Arlington. Also -- a sports place is a great idea now that most places are completely non-smoking. My husband loves football and we took our baby daughter (dressed in her special football watching outfit) to Champs in Arlington a couple of times and we all had a blast (took separate cars in case she needed to go home). We also have gotten into the habit of inviting people (both old friends and new neighborhood pals) to our house to watch sports events or eat or have cocktails or some combination thereof. We get to socialize, our kid gets lots of attention in familiar surroundings and we can disappear to put her to bed and then rejoin the fun.

As for your husband's desire to go out with his friends -- make a deal with him that you each get one night or weekend day of your choosing to go do something alone or with friends while the other watches the baby. This recognizes that you both need some non-baby time to rejuvenate in whatever way works (for me it was going to get a manicure or meeting a friend for lunch, for him it was having a late night out for beers with friends). But it also brings home the idea that you are equally responsible for your kid. Then arrange date nights (as others have suggested) where you do something alone together. If you are reluctant to leave Henry with a sitter for a long time, try little chunks of time at first until you are comfortable. (Or try meeting for lunch during the work week, when Henry is being taken care of already). Good Luck.

My wife and I have gone through several changes in employment, parenthood, life, etc. The best thing to do is depend on your own sense of when things need to be a little different.

If you miss adult company, have a few of your friends come over (meaning husband and wife) this will keep the hubby home. If they have a kid, invest in a pop up playpen. An extra kids bed will make your lack of a social life easier to deal with...

Also, there may be friends who seem to always be willing to come to your house but never reciprocate. Well, when the sense is right ease off for a while, you'll appreciate your friends more when they aren't taking advantage of your hospitality all the time. Get a good group of friends, Scrabble friends, College game friends, shopping friends, etc.

After commuting all week, I'm more than happy to take the three princesses while the wife goes out with the girls. I can kick the soccer ball around outside, watch a game with them, play a game with them, and best of all, I don't have to leave the house.

So now that you have a sense of what you want, sense of what you're missing. Use some common sense and make a small step to alleviate your loneliness. But make sure you include the hubby. He's obviously lonely too.

To all the childless posters who wonder why I don't make more of an effort to adapt to your schedule or ask you about your life when you call...

I have a 19-month-old and a 2-month-old. I'm back to work full time, plus commuting. Husband works full time too. It's not that I don't care about you, but I am TIRED. Bone crushing, mind warping tired. I simply do not have the energy right now to care about your problem with your coworker or your new haircut like I used to. You will not understand until someday when you will be this TIRED too. Then maybe you will forgive me for not putting more effort into you, but at this point I just don't have one ounce of effort to spare right now. If you could just cut me some slack for another year or two, you'll have my friendship for life. I will do the same for you when it's your turn to go through these chaotic baby years.

Moira -

I swear when I read your post it felt like my story all over again.

While I was not one of my first friends to have a child, I discovered very quickly how my social life became a thing of the distant past. Like you, my situation was similar. A resentful, 'absent' husband, a full time job, a neighborhood full of people far older than I (with children near the same age) who treated me as if I was a novelty or entertainment, and very little opportunity to get me or my daughter out with other moms.

I tried time and time again, even rearranging my work schedule so that we could join playgroups, but it never really stuck. Weekend classes? Filled up before I could get my entry form in. Weekend playgroups? Forget about it. None of it worked. Finally, I got fed up with the situation and literally told my husband that on Saturday mornings from when my daughter woke up until nap time that she was HIS RESPONSIBILITY. That way I could do some things for me - get a pedicure, go to the library, have brunch with an old friend.

This arrangement helped both my husband and I in many ways. For him, he was able to develop that bond with our daughter, for me, I felt like I could reclaim some 'me' time. Of course, I'm still lonely and long for more friends for both my daughter and I, this little step made a world of difference.

'He wants to be out with friends and at bars on weekends, like many people our age" Give the guy a break... it doesn't say that he wants to be out all night, that he wants to be out without wife, or that he doesn't want to be a good father. Would you be dumping on him so much if it said out playing golf or working out rather than at bars?

I was 31 and 35 when my kids were born. I had made many friends at work and considered my lunchtimes with friends as part of my social life. I played on an adult sports league two times per week immediately after work and hubby picked up from daycare. And (GASP), he sometimes met me at the local bar where the teams gathered after practice/games. After a while, I discovered that I no longer wanted to have this as part of my life and felt no qualms about giving it up. Sometimes we went out together and sometimes separately. We actually never had a "Friends" sort of group who all hung out together.

Try developing friendships at work and see where that leads.

To those who say to go easy on Dad, he needs time to transition: that may end up being the way it has to happen, but it sure ain't fair. My biggest lesson from DS's first month was that i had to learn and learn fast how to be a parent, coz this was my life from now on. Esp. b/c I was breastfeeding, I didnt' have any choice to "transition." My own hubby asked if I wouldn't mind him hanging out with his friends one night this weekend - since he just finished grad school (last weekend) i said of course go ahead, but I'm also thinking - that's not even a choice for me. There's never a time when I can, as someone else put it, "ditch the label Mom" - it's 24-7. I'm not resentful - I ADORE being with DS all the time, but it is so much easier when I can share parenthood with DH.
Of course part of the problem is I still can't leave DS even with DH and go out with my friends b/c DS will not drink from anything but me. No bottle, no sippy cup, nothing. Couldn't have a date night if I tried! But as I tell myself... it's only a couple of more months till he's eating solids anyway, and - this time will never come again...

I really relate to your story.

I had my first at 26, which is on the young side for this area. Twentyone years later I'm enjoying being young, and having a senior in college.

My salary has climbed over the years so I can do fun stuff with my free time, like travel with my husband, while many of my friends are hanging around Middle Schools listening to the 6th grade Orchestra - ahhhhh.

So hang on - there are benefits to being a young parent!

Do you belong to a church? I found Moms I could relate to there. Activities on Sunday worked out, and it wasn't just working/non-working women. This is also a place where you might find babysitters!

I smoozed with other Moms' who worked where I did. Kids are a great thing to talk about and I have always garnered support and advise from my co-workers.

Father of 4 has officially jumped the shark
Aug 15 at 11:57 am

Er, not into the organized religion thing, so joining a church won't be much help....

This woman is lonely inside of her marriage - a BIG RED FLAG waving in front of the bull!

Moira's baby is 10 months, not 10 days, old ... don't you think the husband has had enough time to "transition"? I guess that's the thing that concerns me. He's younger, so probably less mature to begin with, and his baby (a son no less!) is almost a year old, yet his wife feels compelled to print her name on a blog that attracts 100s of views where he's essentially being thrown under the bus. This to me reads like the proverbial "cry for help" b/c the husband is not responding to her needs.

As others have noted, where is his selflessness in giving Moira some time to herself or to go out? Doesn't seem to be there. It's unfair when one parent essentially gives over 100 percent of the parenting to the other spouse and is obviously something that isn't sitting well in the Demyan household. Quit defending the husband and calling this "male bashing" ...

re: David's comments. There is a lot to be said for having kids early. Nothing wrong with having kids in the 30's (I did it), but teens in the 40's and 50's are no picnic. I know people who have died in their 40's or developed cancer or other serious illnesses. "It's a shame they won't see their kids grow up" or "Thank God they had their kids young and don't have to worry about what will happen when the parents are gone"

I have also seen friends who had kids young retire early, travel and do lots of other things I would like to do but can't because teens are still home.

Have your kids when you are ready and don't worry about anyone else. I was 45 when my child was 10 and she had a classmate whose mother was 30. For quite a while my daughter insisted that she woul