Thankfully - a great discussion. Another facet on the dependent care issue - and a very important one.

We just lost my Father in law. I had always told my husband I would not mind if we had to merge households with his mother - but I have changed my mind. This has caused a small controversy - even though she is not ready to make any big moves. Before my FIL died they bought her a very comprehensive Long-term care policy - so the NEED for her to move in with us is really not the issue. She is very healthy and lives in a great over 55 community about 40 minutes away. Moving nearby to an assisted living when the move becomes necessary sounds good to me.

I have to say too - I am not sure I could have my parents in my house either. If there was an imminent situation with any of the 3 of them - a sudden terminal illness, etc I think it would be different. Merging households with no exit strategy is scary to me. All 3 parents are financially stable - so money is not an issue.

I feel bad about this but I see the strain it can cause on a family and know that I would not be able to handle it. We do a lot for our parents. They are all great people. We love them and involve them in our lives - our kids have a wonderful relationship with them - I just can't live with them.

I am not unsurprised by the tensions which have developed over the years, but admire how you've survived this arrangement, as I do believe your mother-in-law has your children's best interests at heart. My mother-in-law had recently remarried when my first child was born and lived 5 hours away, and my own parents made it clear that they'd already raised three kids, and didn't want a major caregiver role.
I have observed countless grandparents at playgrounds over the years, some of whom have told me that they were recruited or volunteered for the job. Without exception, they are finding it a bit overwhelming, exhausting, etc., and it clearly doesn't allow them much of a life outside grandparenting. I guess if your parents or in-laws are willing to give up their own friends, theatre, concerts, reading, etc., to a large extent, it works. I know my own energy level was higher for getting to the playground at 9 a.m. when my first child was 2 (I was only 27 years old), whereas it had diminshed by the time my last child was that age (I was slightly over 40). So I can well imagine that I might not have enough energy to deal with a toddler 40+ hours/week when I'm his or her grandparent. I think my own parents were realistic that they couldn't have handled it. They enjoy watching their grandchildren in swim meets, taking them out to dinner, having them over for meals when my husband and I need to go out, etc., but they have a busier social life than my husband and I do, by far, because they view this as their just desserts for having worked and raised children for several decades.

I was wondering while reading this, where was your husband when his mother (your MiL) was dictating to you how your children should be raised? He's their father; he should have stood up to his mother on what your (presumably both of you actually) wishes on this subject were.

My brother & I were taken care of by my materal grandmother. There were problems here and there, but we became better adults because of it.

Whenever you let another person be a "partial parent," I think there's bound to be issues in parenting. It does seem like both Mary and her MIL realize and do indeed compromise. I think that's the key.

I just wanted to compliment today's guest blogger on her honesty and her realistic outlook. I know several families who have integrated a grandparent (usually a grandmother) into their households, and I've often wondered about the dynamics of the situation. I thought Ms. Halloran did a commendable job of fairly reflecting the benefits and the drawbacks of her family situation. She was candid, but I didn't get the impression she was betraying any confidences--that's a tough line to walk.

"my mother-in-law as a caregiver has been wonderful for the kids (for the most part) because they have been cared for by someone who loves them and would never park them in front of the TV all day"

Of course because this is what happens if you don't let your MIL live with you. I'd rather have my house, kids and husband to myself and hire a babysitter.

For years, my MIL lived with us about 4-5 months a year. They were younger then (toddler up to elementary school). It worked because it wasn't full time, I knew she would go back home when it warmed up at her home town, and it seemed important for my youngest two to know their grandparents. We also still used our normal arrangements for daycare, etc. Her presence did not change our arrangements. Now the youngest two are in secondary and I can't stand for her to visit more than a week. Over the years, we had our share of disagreements. Those disagreements just built up too far. We're still friendly thank goodness.

My parents never lived with us. They would have a hard time differentiating between their rules and my rules....we agree to disagree to begin with and everything is fine.

Both my mother's father and my father's mother lived with us at one time. Neither was responsible for any child care - but the youngest (me) was already a teenager by the time they moved in. The arrangement with my grandmother worked well as my father sold our house and hers and built a house with a "mother-in-law" suite - she had her own kitchen, etc. The arrangement with my grandfather was much worse, as he lived within our household and felt entitled to critize and begrudge everything we did.

As the child, looking back, I value the time I had with both grandparents but caution that the household rules need to be set in advance and the elders held to them.

My MIL watched our kids for the first 9 years or so and still helps out on those crummy early Mondays that Fairfax County schools love. I am and will always be grateful for her help. People pay good money for crummy care, and here I had a loving relative who was willing to do it for free. I don't share the author's attitude, although she is correct that this situation demands that the mother give up some control. My MIL didn't do play dates either and dressed my kids goofy too. I never complained once -- She also doted on them, drove to school to pick them up/drop them off, and gave them excellent care. She was and is a godsend. Something to think about for the author -- one day your MIL, as mine did, will probably develop health problems that preclude her giving you the same service she does now. When that happens I hope you will be there for her as she has been there for you. That's what family is all about.

This was a great guest blog. I am fortunate not to have to be the caregiver to any of the four grand parents. My mother lives right next door to my brother and my SIL. Now, it is definitely everyone loves Raymond over there. And at times you can really feel the tension. But my mother is also a constant help. She is not responsible for full time day care but she is always the fill in. She drives the kids back and forth to school, activities, friends houses etc... She is always the emergency care contact and does over nights. I don't know if my brother and my SIL really get how much help they get. They have never actually had to "parent" on their own. On the flip side, I am sure she drives them batty at times. She can be overly opinionated etc... But I think if people want these type of coparenting relationships, clear boundaries do need to be set. I always think it is best if people can have semi separate living quarters. Maybe a basement apartment or over the garage apartment. I personally, would not want to live with my inlaws or my own parents. But I might like the idea better if I had differnet parents and inlaws. LOL. Hats off to all that are doing it. It must be a huge relief to know that you always have someone in an emergency. I don't know where these grand parents get the energy to do this 40+ hours a week.

Not to be rude, but I'd rather than have my MIL live with me. Paying for daycare is just fine. Like the author says, it's not like you can put her out on the street.

Huh, the software took out the words between "rather" and "than." Should have read, "fill in the blank with painful activity" in brackets between. Silly.

"People pay good money for crummy care"

Just because a family member isn't watching our children doesn't mean the care is crummy.

Like Mary Ellen, my family had my grandmother living with us since I (the granddaughter) was born almost 30 years ago. I don't know what went on between my parents and my grandma, but it always seemed a peaceful situation to us children. When asked, my mother always said that my grandma (her mother-in-law) was a special person. She was right.

The opportunity to have my grandmother live with us was the greatest gift my parents gave us. Grandma was the stay-at-home mom always available, while my own mother worked hard at her career. We played cards and Scrabble, and always had an audience (and reminder) for our homework, and entertainment for our friends. Yes, there were sacrifices by both my grandma (moving around with us, having less time for friends outside the family) and my parents (namely privacy), and at the moment I can't imagine having my mother-in-law live with me. But I know I'll feel differently when I have children.

I think if there is any way you can work it out, the grandchildren will certainly benefit from the arrangement. My grandma was literally a second mother to me and my siblings, and after her passing this summer we're even more aware of how lucky we were to be so close to her.

OT: I just wanted to know if anyone knows the reason Fairfax has early dissmissal on Mondays? It seems sort of silly. The educators are always complaining that there is not enough time to teach, so why do they let them out early? What do the teachers do during the afternoon? They just had two full teacher work days. I guess I don't understand what else they are doing that they need an early day each week.

Hmmmmm.... she may be your mother-in-law, but she is Mom to your kids. You are just the after dinner show? or maybe their lawyer? Glad you don't have to rush home to have dinner with your kids. At least your mother-in-law is there to feed them... and love them. You made your choices. I hope being a lawyer yields those fond memories in your old age.

Sorry. The truth hurts.

duh...what you wrote is nasty and inappropriate. I don't see even being close to some 'truth.' It also doesn't make sense...so whomever feeds them is their real mom? I guess the cafeteria lady is everyone's real mom then.

My parents and in-laws rarely even come to visit much less co-parent, so I dont have that issue. We have a nanny who is so much more than just a nanny. She helps me run errands, take care of the kids, coordinate play dates, coordinate home repairs etc. My husband and I consider her a co-parent (although obviously we have final say -- as the true parents -- so I am not sure how realistic the term co-parent is in our circumstance). But she is the one that picks the kids up from school, so she gets a lot of the "fun" questions, and we have to trust her responses. We talk about things ad nauseum so she knows our feelings on things etc. It is important to us that our nanny provide us with her opinions for many reasons including: she loves our kids and has their best interests in mind, she has a whole other set of life experiences to gain insight from; she has worked with kids for a number of years before working with us etc. So I see conflicts rise in our situation. We talk them out and there have been times that I have changed my mind and gone with her initial suggestion. Its called compromise and everyone who cares for your child having that child's best interest at heart. Kudos for those who have that person be a grandparent.

Where there are disagreements about issues such as meals, bedtime, playdates, the parents are the decision makers. Not satisfied with aspects of grandma's care? Get more involved yourself. Arrange for the child to be in a playgroup yourself, and if you can't take the time to do it, part-time nursery school would be a great way for the kids to get needed social interaction, and your mother-in-law a needed break. Don't like what mother-in-law is feeding? Prepare meals ahead of time for her to give the kids while you are gone. Your mother-in-law probably felt that she was entitled to make those types of decisions because she was expected to do all of the work herself.

Mary Ellen, if you are dependent on your Mother in Law to help you rear your kids, you're not in a position of determining how she is going to do it. You can request some details, some of which she should honor, but if your husband and you aren't there, by default, she does the decision making.

I grew up in a house where I lived with my grandparents on my Mother's side since I was 13 until I left the house right out of high school. Not good. Pressure cooker. Did lots of drugs and got dragged off to family counseling with my brother and sister. (both of whom turned out to be otherwise decent members of society) There was a constant power struggle between the 4 adults with the kids, usually me, caught in between the battles. To make a long story short, my parents got divorced soonn after I left the house. What a mess.

Knowing the situation in which I grew up in, however did not stop me from moving my family back into the very same house with my Mother. It worked out pretty good considering that my wife got her nursing degree, 2 more kids, and saved up for a house of our own to boot. It was a tough few years though. I always got stuck in the middle of the spats between my wife and mother, but there is one huge difference between the way you are doing it, Mary Ellen, and me. We rarely left my mother with the kids unless one of us was with her. Nope, wouldn't have it. I mean, look what happened to me.

I could dominate the blog today with examples of conflict, but I will just leave you with just this one for now, and as a hallmark of my postings, it is designed to irritate the prudish and sexually disturbed.

After giving my kids a bath, I would let them run around the house naked. This drove my mother nuts, she has this hangup about modesty, but with me being blind and all, dismissed her arguments as tripe. Anyway, I think it is healthy for toddlers, or young children at some point, to actually see the different physical makeup between boys and girls.

I think a lot of the conflict is cultural. In different cultures, it is the custom to live with your parents. They learn to work it out. I think in the US, we are too bound to the idea of the nuclear family. People get really offended when immigrant families live in extended family situations. Everyone cries, they are bringing down the neighborhood. I think there must be pros and cons to living with your parents or in laws. I am sure it is really difficult. As far as co parenting, I look at there can be a number of people who you decide to be part of the parenting team. I consider the day care staff part of my parenting team. Ultimately my husband and myself are the key leaders on our parenting team. But I have gotten wonderful advice and help from my day care providers. I am always amazed how many first time parents who think they are soo qualified to parent. There is a lot to be learned from people who have already been there. You need one or two chiefs but you can have several tribe members, if your open to new ideas and some compromise.

So, "duh" the truth hurts? Yeah, it must be hurting you. Ms. Halloran sounded nothing but honest and forthright about the issues with her MIL. She wasn't blaming or judging.
You're blaming and judging and punishing her honesty. I'm not sure why. Though I am sure that it's not about Ms. Halloran.

[I just wanted to know if anyone knows the reason Fairfax has early dissmissal on Mondays?]

Teachers need planning time without having to supervise kids. It's a union thing.

I adore my parents and in-laws, have begged the latter to come and live with me (which is easier to do since I know it won't happen;), have the distant former to visit as often as possible. Being able to live as an adult with people who once controlled your life can be difficult for people who are unwilling to confront problems or at least know how to deal with them. My kids are big enough that we don't need a third pair of hands, and while there were times when they were small I would have loved it, I am happy that it was my hands, daily supervision and teaching that my children had, even though their grandparents have taught them many things and given them many intangible gifts. All of my good intentions aside, it would be very hard to give up so much privacy. I wonder how earlier generations did it.

Timely topic - I fear this will be a "nuclear" topic in our house sometime soon. I don't ever want my MIL living near or with us, simply because my husband doesn't put his foot down ever to draw boundaries. If she were around, it would be like caring for 2 children, instead of the one we had. If my husband were stronger and set boundaries with his own mother, it would be ok, but until then, NO. WAY.

I already feel like most times I'm married to three people--my husband, and his parents. And we don't even live together!

It's great that it seems to work for her. I just couldn't deal with the co-habitation. Same goes for my own mother, too! One of the reasons why I want to move several states away!

I'm a little envious of those who have family nearby, although not necessarily in the home with you. We have no family here and sometimes that makes it hard. I'm not sure that having grandparents here would actually make it easier though. More power to those of you who make it work - especially with a grandmother in residence. We have one grandma who lives out of the country but is very fun when she comes to visit - usually for a week or two. The other set has been to see their grandchildren twice in 5 years - they are not involved and still misspell grnadchild's name (and mine too for that matter). Definitely not folks we could live with or would want to have a hand in raising our children. It's taken DH a bit of therapy to come to terms with the lack of parenting he had as a child - older brother left in charge way too young and was rather abusive. Families - they can be great, or terrible. We struggle with how to handle the terrible.

I sometimes get a little envious of my brother for getting the help from my mom. But then again, he has to deal with her a lot too. So it is a good and a bad situation. It kind of sucks not having any family around. I would never want them as a full time child care provider. But it would be nice as an emergency contact person. Or a once a week, sort of thing. But you take the good with the bad. I can relate to the terrible parent part too. My MIL is a complete flake. I don't think she could take care of a dog.

I think Mary Ellen has done something really wonderful for her kids by having her MIL live with them. I'm not sure I could have another family member live with us full-time, so I have a lot of respect for her attitude and approach.

Disagree with those who think the fact that Mom works means she's not the "true" parent and not entitled to make decisions. This is illogical and mean-spirited. I have a friend who is a single mom and whose kids live in another country (she is working to raise the money to get them here). She is still their mom and there is no replacement for her. Kids know and respect that bond. There are lots of ways to be a good mother, and an important part of motherhood is providing for your children. Most women need to work to do that. It doesn't help anyone to judge them so harshly.

when we finished out our basement, we did it with the idea that one of our elderly parents might live with us one day. I think/hope it could work, since it's downstairs, with it's own bathroom, living room and small kitchenette. But I have serious doubts if it could with either just my mother or MIL. MIL lives nearby and is already a looming presence overly involved in our lives. If either set of granparents moved in as a set, I think it would work. The "no exit" part is scary, although I suppose the likely mode of exit is scarier.

Wonderful to take in the MIL! Much better than shipping off poor mom to the assisted-living center. Most people in the world automatically bear the responsibility of caring for the elderly in their own homes. It's usually the developed nations that farm out this responsibility to others.

Having family is the ideal care-giving situation. True, it's never "free", but conflicts are inevitable. Families are never free of conflicts, but what's important is that they get resolved in an amicable way.

Hope MIL doesn't frequent this blog!

Please! We are not discussing people who are forced into having someone else raise their children due to economic issues. They are high earning professionals living in the "ex-urbs."

They made a conscious choice to trade rearing their own children for the chance to own more shiny baubles.

And now at least one of them is decrying that she is less important in the parental decision making process. News Flash- she is less important as a parent over all!

You cannot outsource your parenting responsibilities and assume that you will remain a parent! The Mother in law is raising those children. She is the parenting force. These are the facts.

There are always tradeoffs. And one of the things Mary Ellen has traded away for her career and house in the 'burbs is being the mother to her children. You can fool yourself into believing otherwise. But then you are just a fool. You cannot "have it all."

VAtoddlermom: // The "no exit" part is scary, although I suppose the likely mode of exit is scarier. //

:) :)
Just make sure she "exits" before 2010 because the dems are going to reinstate the death tax.

This is a comment from a grandmother.

I live four blocks from my daughter and son-in-law. Shortly after their first baby was born, my daughter found a good day-care center but needed me to fill in when my granddaughter got sick. I would always drop everything to be there.

My daughter gets very upset if I do things without her approval or her way because she has a routine that fits into her and her husband's schedules. I feel my granddaughter needs individual, relaxed attention that she is not getting elsewhere. My granddaughter delights in spending time with me going over meaningless, silly things that make us enjoy each other's company. At two years old she is the brightest and happiest youngster I have ever seen.

When my daughter and son-in-law scream at me, I bite my tongue. I know that being a parent means constant worry -- you worry about every little thing until the children go off to college, and then some.

However, my advice to young parents is, don't worry about children knowing who is the mother. THEY KNOW! My granddaughter looks upon me as someone who is there only for her, but at the end of the day she misses her parents, the only ones who can truly love her like no one else can -- and she knows it.

Be patient with your child's grandmother and explain kindly why things are being done a certain way. I know I need time to adjust to a growing family. And now my daughter and son-in-law are expecting their second child. We all have to work at it, not just the parents. Things are a lot easier if we treat each other simply as human beings.

Being a parent or grandparent means being selfless, and I try to think of ways that I can continue the selfless giving. After all, I have been doing it for almost forty years! I do let my daughter know that it is very important for my granddaughter to spend time with me on a constant basis. It gives her emotional roots. So now I spend every other Sunday with my granddaughter and I always look forward to it.

Best regards,
Linda Sun

Does Duh think that fathers fully abdicate their parenting responsibility when their wives stay at home? We should make sure to tell the husbands of stay at home wives (or vice versa) that they "cannot outsource [their] parenting responsibilities and assume that [they]will remain a parent!" Thank you, Duh. How enlightened.

Good point from "Duh".
The live-in MIL is not your nanny or paid help. She's going to parent the way she thinks is right because you're out working most of the day.

BTW, when your kids were toddlers, who did they run to - MIL or mom? When they woke up crying at night, did they cry for MIL or mom?

It's wonderful that you shouldered this huge responsiblity of caring for your MIL. It's great that she's done so much raising of your kids so 2 parents can work full-time w/o a lot of the "balance" stress that so many here face. However, MIL is not hired help and may not heed all your instructions.

To Duh: I don't get it. Do you think if you have someone else do some of the parenting tasks, they automatically pull out the trump card. Is the public school teacher become the parent because my DD goes their 6 hours a week and eats lunch and breakfast at school? Is my day care provider the mother because my DD goes there 22 hours a week? Or is my husband the mother because he gets them off to school? Am I the mother because I pick up DD and do dinner and bathes with her? Just because she doesn't parent 24/7 doesn't mean she isn't the parent. A parent is the person or persons who have the ultimate responsibility both legally, morally, and physically for the child. If she and her husband suddenly dropped dead, the MIL is not forced to take care of these children. If they go and wreck someone elses property, the MIL is not legally responsible for property damage. Parents, nannies, day care providers, etc... can all be ultimately involved in a child's life. Just because they don't do the day to day tasks, does not make them less of a parent. Because as a parent, she was the one to arrange care for her child. Whether it is a paid employee or a relative, the mother and father took on the responsibility to find care. If the MIL wants out, she can walk out any day. A parent can not dissolve their parental responsibilities that easily.

I just don't understand the comments from Duh and other people who argue that parents who are not the sole caretakers of their children are not "real parents." Historically, parenting was a community project. Children have always been raised in part by their extended family, by older siblings, by nannies or governesses, by neighbors, or by church members. There is a long tradition of cooperation in raising children. None of this erodes the bond that a parent has with his or her child. In fact, today's model of intensive mothering is a historical aberration.

It just takes a village to raise a child, and it sounds like today's guest poster is a terrific example of how that works in practice. And I really appreciate her honesty in talking about how it works and how it doesn't work. What a great mom!

It's wonderful that you shouldered this huge responsiblity of caring for your MIL. It's great that she's done so much raising of your kids so 2 parents can work full-time w/o a lot of the "balance" stress that so many here face. However, MIL is not hired help and may not heed all your instructions.

Hate to break it to you but if you want to avoid the estate tax, simply sign away your property during your lifetime. You can give a deed of a gift, for as little as $10 and filing fees. People just hate to part with their things in their lifetime. Besides 95% of Americans are unaffected by the estate tax. Most Americans have estates less then a million dollars.

Wow -- I dont usually respond to the snarkly remarks made by the working-mom-haters, but I have to say to duh, your name really says it all -- you really have no clue. Everyone is clearly entitled to their opinions, true, but I hope that if you have a daughter, you will not be so judgmental if she chooses to (or has to) work. It would be very difficult to maintain a relationship with you. But, to each his/her own -- Have a great day.

I agree -- good topic today.

My mother cared for my son for about six months until I was able to enroll him at the daycare at my previous job. His father or I dropped him off every morning and picked him up, about 45-50 minute drive each way. The peace of mind was worth the commute. At the time, I didn't know about getting on a daycare waiting list while pregnant, and we couldn't find anything when I was ready to return to work. The places we looked into were unacceptable. We had a cousin of my then-husband's BIL watch him one day, and I didn't like what I saw.

My mother took very good care of my son, and I'll always be grateful for that care. She still watches the kids from time to time as needed, but she's over 70 and her health is not the best. There's been some tension, to be sure. To my mom, my son was the perfect, pretty baby and adorable little boy. So when he started developing his issues (he was diagnosed as ADHD but may actually have Asperger's), she did and still does find it hard to take. We argue over the decisions I make about his education and care (I'm now a single mom). So us living together probably won't work very well. I have to be able to run my household, and my mom likes having the control. Plus, we tried the co-living arrangement before when my husband and I were together. Talk about disaster!

Even my dad has helped out with child care. One time, when I went to the store, he had to change my daughter's poopy diaper. Other than putting her clean diaper on inside out, he didn't do too bad!
I'm grateful for his help also. And he highly values his independence, despite having cancer and living in another state alone.

Now, my MIL -- I won't even get into that. Hooo-boy.

Wow -- I dont usually respond to the snarkly remarks made by the working-mom-haters, but I have to say to duh, your name really says it all -- you really have no clue. Everyone is clearly entitled to their opinions, true, but I hope that if you have a daughter, you will not be so judgmental if she chooses to (or has to) work. It would be very difficult to maintain a relationship with you. But, to each his/her own -- Have a great day.

So in addition to proposing govt funded quality childcare, why doesn't the govt encourage more family childcare?

My husband and I both forsee a future where our parents come to live with us. I for one am dreading it - I'm a stay at home mom and really value my quiet time. He on the other hand is at work and thus spends less time in the house, and less with them when they come to visit, so it's easier for him.

Lucky for me - they are all pretty young, and I don't think anyone will come to live with us for at least 10 years, by then my kids will be 12 & 15.

I can sympathize with today's blogger - once I had to leave my oldest with my parents & m-i-l for 2 weeks while hubby was deployed and I had to travel for work. She asked me how often he got a bath, I told her every night, she said, "well, not while he's with me!". She had him for 4 days and when I got home he had a raging diaper rash that made him cry when she changed his diaper. Thank god that they live in Fl and I only have to see them 1 - 2 times a year.

Everybody who has child care has issues with the person who cares for their child. So it isn't like you wouldn't have had disagreements etc... with someone else who cared for your child.

But it's nice to have a family member you pretty much trust.

I would have been interested to know if you established any 'ground rules' regarding her care. Did she vacation with you? Everybody needs time to themselves.

My MIL worked and had an active social calendar. We got invited over a lot when friends or family visited, but it was always by appointment.

I think your children will have a better sense of their Grandmother for having spent plenty of casual time with her.

Wow- You have legal responsibility for your kids so that makes you a parent! That is sooo touching. Being a parent is more than a legal concept or contributing half their chromosomes.

Everyone needs help. Maybe it does take a village. The extended family is important in the child rearing process. I agree with these concepts and have taken advantage of them.

But when you abdicate your role... by having someone else rear your children on a daily basis- Feeding them dinner every night. Getting them off to school etc. You cannot complain that your importance has diminished in your child's life. You cannot complain that your daily decision making authority has decreased.

Each responsibility that we outsource has an offsetting downside. It is a balance that we seek. This is not a participating, nurturing MiL, in this case MiL has become Mom.

Again, you are fooling yourself if you think you can have it all. You cannot. The econimic reality for some is that there is no choice. But for others, who have traded being a parent for the mindless pursuit of McMansions and consumer goods, I simply say that you reap what you sow.

Your children will only be young once. Are you really willing to trade that experience to make partner? Mary Ellen, wake up while you still have a chance to make a difference in their lives.

Thank you so much for the supportive comments. This is cheaper than therapy and more effective! A note - after my daughter was born, I worked only 4 days a week until she was eight. This was good for both Grandma (I call MIL Grandma.) and me as it gave her an extra off and me an extra day on. Budget cutbacks and layoffs brought me back to a full week.
On the dinner issue, I do make meals on the weekends and freeze them for GM to give to the kids. She prefers to make dinner for the kids, rather than waiting for me to get home, because it is difficult for me to get home before 6. GM spent most of her adult life eating dinner at 5:30, so she feeds them so that the kids eat earlier rather than later.
On my husband's role, in the early years he would not back me up in disputes with GM and it caused a lot of conflict between us. Now, and I think because GM has proved very difficult for both of us to live with, he takes my side much more often. Actually, he and his mother argue a lot more than she and I do.

I am part of the so-called Sandwich generation. I had WWII-generation, aging parents (in their mid-to-late seventies) a few years back, while at the same time having two small children. After my dad died, my mom did not want to be alone, so moved in with us. I work part-time (16 hours a week), and my mother was never a full-time caregiver for our kids, but she did help out a fair amount, including staying with the kids during unexpected school closings or just to give my husband and me a night out on the town. We did receive some unsolicited childrearing advice but took it in stride, as we could use some advice from time to time, and she was part of the household. Our view was, if you're part of the household, you have a say. Now that my mom is gone (died a couple of years after moving in with us), I would give anything to have her back -- unsolicited advice and all! My kids learned a lot about intergenerational care and support and unconditional love from that experience. Sure, she got annoying sometimes, but that's part of the package with extended family. I work part-time to this day, because I feel that I do want to have a significant impact and say in my children's upbringing. My husband doesn't work unnecessarily long hours. We've had a variety of caregiving situations of just about every type -- grandma care, paid babysitter/nanny, au pairs, preschool, daycare, etc. None was perfect, but they were all excellent in their own way, because we didn't overdo it with depending on any one of them, and we struck a healthy balance between work and family. No, we haven't reached the pinnacles of ultimate success in our careers, but we enjoy our work and have had adequate success to feel fulfilled professionally while not sacrificing the priceless gift of time with our family. I believe Ms. Halloran lost sight of this balance a bit, which resulted in too much authority getting ceded to Grandma (in the opinion of the author), but at least she is loving and doing right by the children, and her authority would naturally reign supreme being that she was spending the lion's share of time with the children. I would answer that yes, letting go of so many hours/days/weeks of your children's care is the pricetag of full-time working motherhood. It wasn't a bad choice, Ms. Halloran, but it is the one you made and you were lucky to be able to make it. With no relatives left in the area, my husband and I have not choice but to conduct a finely-tuned balancing act.

So in addition to proposing govt funded quality childcare, why doesn't the govt encourage more family childcare?

You can use the same dependent care tax fund for family care providers given the family care provider pays income tax on that money. There are also different types of employer taxes that need to be paid if your family member is your employee (ie. nanny). The reason most parents do not use those tax breaks for family members is because the family member is either unpaid or paid under the table. I don't know what other kind of subsidy that a child care provider gets if they are unpaid. Most people use family members because they are free, reduced priced, or just a trust issue. Personally, I don't think the government cares if it is a relative or a non relative who cares for your children. They just care about collecting the taxes owed on the income earned.

My mother lives two miles away from us, so we get the benefits of her assistance without having her in our house full time. It really works out wonderfully. Mom is not responsible for full time care of our son, but she does fill in a lot, especially after school if my husband and I cannot be home at 3:00. My husband is in school, so he usually does the after school care, but lately, he has been very busy with some projects, and mom has been his back-up. She is amazingly helpful. She picks my son up at school, gives him his snack, supervises homework, feeds him dinner, and packs a healthy home cooked dinner for my husband and me to take home with us when we pick our son up at 6:00. And she won't take a dime for her efforts. Of course, we make sure to treat her and give her gifts in return, since she will accept gifts, but not payment. Yes, I have noticed that on some issues, she likes to do things her way, but it has not been a big deal to me. My son loves having his grandmother nearby. My mother's childless cousin also lives with her, so this is an additional person in the household who seems to dote on my son. Between his grandmother and his tia (I know the cousin is not acually an aunt but that is what he calls her), I sometimes feel outnumbered when it comes to decisions about my son's care. But I find it easier to go along with them than to fight them, after all, none of what they decide is actually wrong or harmful. In the end, I am just thankful that my son is so loved and that I have such an incredible network of support.

Wow- You have legal responsibility for your kids so that makes you a parent! That is sooo touching. Being a parent is more than a legal concept or contributing half their chromosomes.

I think your missing the point. I said a parent has the legal, moral and physical responsibility of raising the child. Moral is always a difficult to thing to pin down because people have different moral standards. While physical and legal standards are pretty clear. You obviously think parents need to parent 24/7. So is a father who works out of the home 50+ hours a week less of the parent then the mother who is a SAHM?

Having my parents nearby has been helpful. The first week both my husband and I were working (he stayed home for two weeks after my short maternity leave ended) my parents came to our house and watched DD. Though for a short time it did ease the transition into day care (I could call them multiple times a day and they didn't get annoyed). Also they have been helpful with backup For example when she was recovering from an illness - healthy enough that I felt OK leaving her, but not sure the fever wouldn't come back. Even now that DD is a teenager they help with transportation to activities after school when both I and the ex are still at work.

My mother would agree it would be difficult for us to live together, so I admire those who can make it work.

What a nicely done guest blog. Thanks for sharing your story so honestly.

I think your last question, "Is letting go of your kids' daily care the unavoidable pricetag of working motherhood?" really captures the issue, and I think in a lot of ways the answer is yes. When I went back to work full time when my son was about 14 or 15 months old, I definitely had to let go of a lot things. At first, my husband was home with him full time, and now he's in daycare in the mornings and home with dad in the afternoons. He gets excellent care from both, and his time with his dad is priceless. But there are a lot of things that I would do differently - food is a big one -- I wish that my husband and the daycare served him more vegetables and more variety, and my husband easily slides into a rut of offering just a few foods everyday. But that's just not something I can control, it's not like what he's offering is bad, it's just not what I would offer. So every now and then I might make a suggestion ("We should get some greenbeans at the store today, he loves them and hasn't had them in a while") but I just don't think it's fair for me to try to control how my husband does things, nor do I have a lot of control over what the daycare serves. There are other examples, that's just the one that comes to mind. In the end, if I'm working I have to trust the person who is caring for my child and let them do things the way they are comfortable with.

On MILs - we just got back from visiting my in-laws and good lord, I could never live with them. The entire visit my MIL was second-guessing and commenting on my decisions. We arrived at their house around 9pm. My son started exploring the living room and quickly found the little dish of chocolates. I took it away and said not right now. MIL immediately says in a false baby voice, "Oh mama, it's just a little peice, a little candy isn't gonna hurt me!" And so it went for four days.

OOh, Megan, the baby voice by MIL in the first person talking for your child.

Dems is fighting words, and she knows it! I assume you won that one.

I agree with the posters who complimented the guest blogger on her honesty and candid assessment of her family situation. Yes, she is being straightforward about the benefits and drawbacks of the MIL live-in situation.

However, I also think that Father of 4 is right when he says: "Mary Ellen, if you are dependent on your Mother in Law to help you rear your kids, you're not in a position of determining how she is going to do it. You can request some details, some of which she should honor, but if your husband and you aren't there, by default, she does the decision making."

When you cede your authority to someone else for large chunks of the day -- including family-intensive times like dinner -- then you have to accept that there will be some diminution of your importance in the overall scheme of things.

The guest blogger says: "She and I would also get into horrific arguments over what the kids would wear, what time they would go to bed, what they would eat -- things that you would think would be the province of a parent (aka, me). She seemed to forget that she was not the parent, and that she could and even should back off once we got home."

But this is completely unrealistic. The MIL isn't a caregiver who leaves at the end of the day. She's been tasked with making a happy, warm, secure home for these kids; she can't just turn it off when mom gets home and wants to take over.

I'm not saying that the situation couldn't have been remedied, but that would have required that the parents and the MIL sit down and renegotiate the parameters of their arrangement. Very likely, no one really wanted to upset a smoothly functioning operation.

This had to have been a difficult scenario at times. Kudos to everyone in this family for working it through.

to Megan: Oh mama, it's just a little peice, a little candy isn't gonna hurt me!" And so it went for four days.

Could it be that she just wanted to spoil him a little? My FIL will give the kids just about any junk while the grand kids are there. I usually don't say anything because a little junk won't really kill them. But I am pretty lax about chocolate. DD eats it most every day. I figure moderation is the best lesson. But grand parents are entitled to spoil their grand kids a little bit. I think that is the reward for having to raise their own children.

I wish my family lived near us, not with us, but near us. I had nephews who lived with me, over the hill from me, and across the street. There was never a child care emergency because someone was always there. The downside is that someone is always there and always wants to put their two cents in, including me when I was younger and had a lot of child care responsibilities.

That being said, my parents wouldn't want to live with me and I wouldn't want them too.

Megan,

I just give up when we go home to visit. I figure she is only there four or five times a year and if it makes my parents happy to buy her ice cream then they can have at it. However, I do stop the in-laws from letting her have pop, which my brother in law seems to think equals water. Anyway, it is annoying, but what can you do.

Megan,
Yes, I had the candy issue with my mother also. Part of the reason is that when I was growing up, she let me and my brothers consume all sorts of junk. She just never controlled that. She cooked good meals, but we were still allowed to eat candy and drink soda. Amazing that we are not all obese. With my son, I restrict the candy and soda to special occasions. She thinks I am too restrictive. So we have compromised on this a little. She hides the coke and gives the kid pink lemonade and I don't complain. A chocolate chip cookie is okay after school, but no candy after dinner. Compromising has brought us a measure of peace.

Our nanny makes dinner so that when I get home, I can have dinner with the kids. I resolve the dinner making issue by having a calendar on the wall, and one thing on the calendar is the dinner menu. The kids sometimes choose what to have (but seriously how often can you have tacos). That way, I determine what is for dinner every night, and its my choice. I guess that is an advantage of a nanny over grandma -- I could not imagine telling grandma what to fix for dinner. Thems would be fighting words.

I don't know about you guys but my mother and in laws have plenty of unwanted child rearing advice from a far. It is amazing how annoying people can be over the telephone. All the cons and none of the benefits. LOL.

foamgnome you make a good point about moderation. I grew up in a house that had chips, ice cream, candy, etc. Because it was there and I could have it in moderation, I don't tend to over eat it now. However, pop is a different story. I have a horrible habit and I wish I never started drinking it.

Father of 4, exactly!

Foamgnome, I totally understand wanting to spoil the grandkids, and I'm fine with her feeding him cookies and cake and whatever during the day. But chocolate at 9 at night for my two year old means a sugar/caffeine high right at an already late bedtime after a very long day of travel. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want my kid to go to bed sometime before midnight.

But what really bugs me, as Fo4 noted, is the way she goes about it. If she just said directly to me, "ah, can't he have just a little" it wouldn't have irritated me and I would have just discussed it with her. But with every little thing she does the baby voice first person which I find to be a very irritating and passive-aggresive way of doing things. I mean, how are you supposed to respond? In a return baby voice first person? As if I'm addressing him? It's just annoying.

Wow, what a flurry!

Emily, Scarry and foamgnome, I agree on the moderation and compromise. My general rule at home is that if we are eating it, he can eat it - this works well for us because it forces me to moderate my own consumption as well, but means that the "treat foods" are not some forbidden thing that he obsesses about. He's actually very good about it if I say, "OK, this is the last bite," even when he can see that there's more around. Scarry, one thing we do on the pop front is buy flavored seltzer water, which doesn't have the sugar that pop does - that satisfies his desire to have "fizzy pop" as he calls it once in a while.

Wow! I read this article and starting feeling like I really was not alone, my MIL lives with us also for approximately 6-8 months of each year. She also takes our daughter to her home for the summer months. She's a wonderful help around the house and an excellent grandmother.

My husband is an only child and has had to claim his mother as a military dependent because of her disabilities. When she's in our home she sometimes makes me feel as if I'm a visitor and she's in total control. I rush home from work to cook for my family and she intentionally cooks, even when I tell her I'll take care of it when I return from work. I'm normally an extremely direct person but find myself backing off her because she is his mother, I don't want to disrespect her and because we need her help with our child.

When he's deployed...I need help...when I'm on temporary duty away from home...he needs her help. Yep! Right now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. But I've decided to take back my power...I've started looking for a less demanding job 

My mom talked about being the primary caregiver when my son was born, but she was a WOHM. Now that she's retired she still gets together alot with friends, does volunteer work, etc., so I didn't think she would really enjoy being home all day everyday with a baby. Also, we have a wonderful relationship and I would hate to see that devolve over care issues.

I do love having my parents close by though. We can always ask them to babysit on the occasional Saturday night out, and my mom is always the backup if our nanny gets sick or goes on vacation.

What was great though is that when my son was first born, my mom came over everyday for two weeks and made dinner for us (my Dad came by on his way home from work). She cleaned up the kitchen and whatever else needed to be done. My husband was home from work for three weeks, but it was nice for us to just be able to concentrate on our new baby.

This situation works for us, and it worked for my mother (my grandmother set the precedent.) Spring break days were always at her house, which was fun. It's great having family in the area. One of the reasons I would never consider moving.

Mary Ellen Halloran
Firm: State of New Jersey Asst. Atty. Gen.

Address: Cn 112
Trenton, NJ 08625
Phone: (609) 777-4427

Bar Admissions:
New Jersey, 1983
Pennsylvania, 1983
U.S. Court of Appeals 3rd Circuit, 1986
U.S. District Court District of New Jersey, 1983
U.S. Supreme Court, 1986

Education:
Temple University School of Law, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1982
J.D., Doctor of Jurisprudence
Honors: Law Review, 1980-81

Rutgers The State University of New Jersey, New Brunswick, New Jersey, 1973
B.A., Bachelor of Arts

Birth Information:
1951, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States of America

Do you do anything for your kids, or does your nanny do it all?

Thank you for sharing your story today. It is truly about balance - in this case, emotional balance, as well as everything else!
Both sets of grandparents are in the area and I tend to look at it as Big Picture - wonderful, and Small Picture - often annoying. Knowing that the Big Picture outweighs the day to day annoying things keeps me afloat. I love that our baby daughter is getting to know her grandparents, and I know that they can provide her with things we can't. I'm not sure what those things are yet, but I can just tell through their interactions. I'm not sure where "Duh" is coming from... I think that it does take a village and there's nothign wrong with more people to love and care about your child. A Mommy is a Mommy - that's not going away. But a Grandma is a Grandma and they play a special role, unique and different from a parent's role.

I think it would be great to have Grandparents around who are willing and able to provide childcare. My dad and step-mom have come through for me a couple of times when I had to travel (I'm a single parent), but they live on the other side of the country so it was an emergency measure. But, to have a grandparent living with me full time would take more deplomacy than either I or either of my parents have. Man, my mother is such a control freak. She pouts or insults me if I don't do everything her way. We'd kill each other.

to googled: Awesome resume...I was impressed with her before I read the CV though

This was a great post. I like that it doesn't seem aimed to stir up controversy like some of the posts are. It's funny how it used to be far more common for multiple generations to share a household, but our country has moved away from it enough that it seems weird to many. I don't have to contemplate sharing a household yet, but in the back of my mind I do know that at some point I'll have these issues, and thinking about who will be doing the care among myself and siblings, for parents, in-laws, and childless aunt/uncles. It can be overwhelming to think about.

I have been reading this column for a while as an outsider. My only child is 37 with two children and another on the way. I was, however, a working mother and despite the fact that I didn't start out that way, a single parent for a while. Many of the situations in the column are so very familiar. Today's column has compelled me to send a response from another perspective.

My maternal grandmother provided day care for my sister and me. Ten years after my sister's birth she provided day care for our brother. She was 50+ when I was born and I am the oldest. I've said many, many times recently that I cannot fathom how she did the things that she did with so much kindness and enthusiasm. Love can be the only explanation. Initially we lived in a family house that provided plenty of room for everyone. When our parents came home in the evenings Sweetheart (what we called our grandmother) was technically off duty. The reality was that she didn't ever end her day insofar as we were concerned. She and my mother had numerous disagreements about the way to do things. There was plenty of resentment on both sides, especially since WE were living in her house! When we ultimately moved into our own home the only change was that we were brought to Sweetheart in the mornings and left in the evenings. I clearly remember calling her almost as soon as I arrived home asking if I could come back and spend the night. I did this not because home was unpleasant, it was not but because no one could hug and kiss quite like our Sweetheart. She and Granddaddy made us the center of their world. I never, ever remember her saying no we couldn't come back. Thankfully she was only a few blocks away. My sister and I made that walk quite frequently on Friday nights and summer evenings. We were greeted as though they hadn't seen us in weeks, instead of only hours. They were treasures!

I am a working grandmother myself. I have had the occasional sleepover with my oldest granddaughter (10 going on 21) and cannot imagine spending more than the occasional day or two with her or her almost two-year old sister. My sister and I have discussed our grandmother and how wonderful she was. She lived to see most of her great grandchildren and was heartbroken that she wasn't able to be THEIR day-care provider.

My present husband and I had no children together, but he has been much more than a stepparent to my son. In June his 93-year old mother moved into our home. We are still learning how to cope, another reason I've been reading these columns. She is the baby we never had and neither of us has the patience or the energy required to begin parenting, yet we have no choice. Other than moving more slowly and a few other minor age-related deficiencies she is well. I can truly empathize with today's post. I do not hurry home anymore and cannot look forward to a time when I will no longer have to change diapers and/or help someone to dress. Yet I do have constant help from my husband. In spite of the many differences that I have with his mother there is one constant -- he would not be the wonderful man he is if it were not for her.

Jokester --

Please go back to the puns. They were funny. These golf jokes are flat.

Duh is a sad excuse for a human being. I can respect other's opposing views, but "Duh" states his/hers as "fact" when they are nothing but.

And this writer, Mary Ellen, seems a little lazy to me. Surely she could afford a nanny or au pair. The moment the MIL began to dictate how the the children were to be raised and the MIL told her that she wouldn't do playdates (or whatever else), Mary Ellen should have grown a pair, acted like a responsible parent and hire a nanny or au pair. The person you hire has to do the playdates and anything else related to childcare that you ask.

If the situation is not good for the parents then you can try to delude yourself into thinking it's good for the kids. Didn't seem to be so good for the kids.

Compliments on the blog today! You have a lot more patience than I do. Even a short visit with my MIL is a struggle. She tries to feed the 13-month old inappropriate foods behind my back (things that are way too hard to chew when you only have 7 teeth, things that are choking hazards, and sticky candy), she once left him in the bathtub ALONE while she went to go look for another toy for him, didn't believe in putting him to sleep on his back when he was an infant. But she raised her kids the same way, and "they turned out fine," so what do I know, right? I think some grandparents have more trouble than others at recognizing that the parents' rules deserve respect.

And to "duh": if being a real parent means you have to be there 24/7, should both parents quit work and stay at home collecting public assistance in order to be real parents? If Dad goes to work, is the child fatherless? If he goes to school for part of the day, is he a 40% orphan? Home schooling must be the only proper course. How long may I be separated from my son before I cease to be a parent? For example, is a one-hour dentist appointment OK, or should I stay home and let my teeth rot so I don't have to leave his side.

See how ridiculous you sound?

I am jealous reading this. I love my 2 little grandchildren. But they have 8 grandparents and my husband and I live 2 hours away, the furthest away of all the grandparents. The parents don't need us because they have 6 others ready and willing to babysit. I find it's very difficult to be involved with grandchildren when their parents don't feel you are needed in their lives. I am hoping that the situation is better for us when my husband's other 2 children have kids.

no flame, no fun.
light it up!!!

"However, I do stop the in-laws from letting her have pop ... "

Thank you, Scarry! I haven't heard someone use the word "pop" since I was growing up in Michigan -- a million years ago!

When we moved to the mid-Atlantic region, everyone called soft drinks "soda." Took me awhile to realize that when someone said "Want a soda?" they weren't offering me something with ice cream in it.

Let's hear it for POP!

to pittypat:
I have to admit to having a mental hiccup when I read the word 'pop'... it's been a while since I lived in the mid-west! I guess it is like faucet/spigot (one set of in-laws says faucet and other set says spigot).
and I only stock diet in the house...solves the problem for me.

I pay some $30,000.00 + for inhouse day care, I have had to fire two sitters because of verbal and abusive contact with my two daughters. I constantly have problems with the sitters, food prep. pre school attendance etc.,etc. I and anyone else would love to have what you have, go home and hug and thank your mothern law and do it every day.

I pay some $30,000.00 + for inhouse day care, I have had to fire two sitters because of verbal and abusive contact with my two daughters. I constantly have problems with the sitters, food prep. pre school attendance etc.,etc. I and anyone else would love to have what you have, go home and hug and thank your mothern law and do it every day.

Mary Ellen has it so good she doesn't even realize it. Instead of being thankful to her MIL who cares for her kids like Mary Poppins, cooks meals, enables her to achieve her high-powered law career as Asst. DA, she complains when her kids don't get play dates. HELLO! Your MIL is not hired help, she isn't your domestic robot that caters to your whims. You must respect her because she is your MIL. Bite your tongue, you can suggest but must accede to her wishes because of all she has done for you.

You must not be aware of the struggles many working moms have, dealing with daycare, kids being sick, running off to their activities and meetings and doctors, etc. You just put everything in Mary Poppins hands and dive into work. You did not have to choose between work and family. Your MIL covered the family. And then you complain because she's caring for your kids a slightly different way? Pleeez!

Yeah, pittypat! We're "pop" people too!

Check out this map of pop vs. soda in the US:

http://www.popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html

I pay some $30,000.00 + for inhouse day care, I have had to fire two sitters because of verbal and abusive contact with my two daughters. I constantly have problems with the sitters, food prep. pre school attendance etc.,etc. I and anyone else would love to have what you have, go home and hug and thank your mothern law and do it every day.

Actually, I call it a "soft drink."

I want to point out, as some other bloggers have that this is very much a cultural issue. When I was growing up (in another country), my paternal grandparents lived a few miles away and my maternal grandmother lived with us for a few years at a time. This arrangement was not considered unusual or strange, in fact, it was (and still is) the norm. This allowed my mother to pursue her career. Sure, while there might have been some struggles with parenting, I did not notice it. I felt so fortunate to have my grandparents close to me. To this day, I am very close to my grandmothers. However, at all times, I always knew who my parents were and that they had the final say in my upbringing. The most important factor is that children are in a loving and safe environment.

I also want to share another perspective about having a working mom all throughout my childhood. I have always been proud of my mother for pursuing her career in spite of all the challenges she faced. Sure, I have missed her at times, and wished that she stayed home like the mothers of my friends, but as I have grown older, I can see how much she has accomplished and can appreciate the battles she has had to fight in order to do so. And all of that only makes me love her more.

My husband, our toddler and I moved in with my Mil the second yr of our marriage, while I returned to school. While I certainly benefitted as we did not pay anything while we lived there, we certainly had absolutely no help with "childcare." We sent our child to a daycare center while I attended school. Things weren't too bad during that time. It was after I graduated, was pregnant and jobless. The arrangement was to have her move out and sell us the house when I was finished with school. She renigged on the deal. During the hell that ensued for the next 4 years, what is left are permanently damaged relationships between myself and "them." My husband and I grew apart as a result and even after 7 years, we have not recaptured the bond we had prior to living with her. We are both from dysfunctional families, I fear that we are raising our family that way, too.

I want to point out, as some other bloggers have that this is very much a cultural issue. When I was growing up (in another country), my paternal grandparents lived a few miles away and my maternal grandmother lived with us for a few years at a time. This arrangement was not considered unusual or strange, in fact, it was (and still is) the norm. This allowed my mother to pursue her career. Sure, while there might have been some struggles with parenting, I did not notice it. I felt so fortunate to have my grandparents close to me. To this day, I am very close to my grandmothers. However, at all times, I always knew who my parents were and that they had the final say in my upbringing. The most important factor is that children are in a loving and safe environment.

I also want to share another perspective about having a working mom all throughout my childhood. I have always been proud of my mother for pursuing her career in spite of all the challenges she faced. Sure, I have missed her at times, and wished that she stayed home like the mothers of my friends, but as I have grown older, I can see how much she has accomplished and can appreciate the battles she has had to fight in order to do so. And all of that only makes me love her more.

to Megan:
Loved the map. Of course, what struck me was the red county calling soft drinks 'Coke' is the birthplace of Pepsi!! (New Bern, NC in Craven County)

Let's see now, we have degenerated to the ad hominem attack, the absurdum line of defense and lest we forget, the much venerated straw man! But most of you are not willing to avert your gaze from the latest lusted for shiny trinket to analyze what I am saying.

Villify me if you wish, dehumanize me if you must. But can you actually say out loud that NONE of my points are valid?

Please, by all means go to the dentist. Take care of yourself, but take care of your family too. You chose to be a parent. It is a verb as well as a noun.

My simple point is this- You want to be a parent. You chose to be a parent. If you have the financial means to provide for your family, is it fair to your children to absent yourself from their lives any more than necessary just so you can have another 50 inch plasma TV? And, if the answer is yes, do you have a right to complain that you are no longer as important in your child's life and that your parental decision making authority has been impinged?

Most of you are defensive because the reflection of yourself in the mirror I am holding up casts you in a harsh light. I am sorry for that. It is not my purpose to offend you. I am merely saying- perhaps it is not too late to re-evaluate your priorities.

okay, I have to say it

the golf jokes by jokester are below par.

My parents currently live with my father's mother, taking care of her, and near my mother's older sister, who also needs a lot of care. (My mother is honestly not happy unless she is taking care of people, she was miserable as an empty-nester) As soon as my grandmother and aunt pass away, my parents plan on moving close to my husband and I, who will presumably have children by then. Since it's my mother, I'm less worried about her doing things her way vs my way (my way being no meat, no tv and NO candy), but I also don't plan on having her watch my kids all of the time like my grandmothers did. She cannot wait to have her future grandchildren for long summer holidays (although this may change once they actually come).

No silly -- I had my kids for my own self-gratification, and then pawned them off onto hired help. Then, just to make myself feel better about my "choices" I parade my children around to make everyone understand how good of a mother I am. :) Oh and by the way, I have a mcMansion, a huge SUV the size of a city block, and tons of expensive baubles :) How silly of a question -- yes, I do a lot for my children, including love them unconditionally, volunteer at their expensive private schools, eat dinner with them, read to them, bathe them, play Candyland until I want to scream :), and most importantly, teach them not to judge others before being in their shoes.

Ease up, WoolyBugger!
A mother worries about her kids no matter what -- or who -- is minding them. I can understand the worry about playdates -- every mother worries that her kids might be missing good interaction time w/ other children, or whatever the activity might be. Come on -- we've all done it -- should my kid do karate? should he have piano lessons? should he play soccer? what do I need to do to help my kid be as socialized as possible? Playdates are the earliest version of this same worry.

Grandmas can be great, and Mary Ellen's MIL is doing her agreed-upon part as a member of the household. But everyone has different ideas, and compromises must be made. I should think that in this situation, that means compromises on both sides -- they all still have to live together.

Duh, I believe Ms. Ass.DA wanted her career more than her family and found it convenient to use her MIL to achieve that means. The "horrific arguments" just prove that she is ungrateful and wanted to control her MIL like a little robot nanny.

In the South, they're all "coke". No pop, no soda (my term) - just generic "coke." A real coca cola is "co-cola."

to duh:
I'll say it (out loud if I could). None of your points are valid.

By the way, we don't have a plasma TV. and I don't think anyone works just to get another plasma TV.

RPStew - That was a great post. I hope you continue to contribute.

My mother's grandmother - "Bubba" (grandma in Ukranian) cared for her and her brothers in the same manner you were cared for by your sweetheart. They lived in the same house or next door to each other the whole time my mother was growing up. I love hearing about Bubba - seemed like a fantasy grandma to me. Apparently Bubba was sweet, kind, loving - all the things you want. I know my mother cherishes those memories.

"Villify me if you wish, dehumanize me if you must. But can you actually say out loud that NONE of my points are valid? "

Yes, I can say out loud that most of your points are not valid. Your points are extreme and presented as fact and they are not. These issues are nuanced and you'd rather condemn working mothers rather than see the issues as they are--not black and white.

So we are justified in "villifing" you because you are just plain wrong. I think you have a persecution complex and I'd guess you are not a very happy person (nor very intelligent)....

I am also a working grandmother who has seen a lot of changes. I grew up in an ethnic neighborhood of doubles. Usually the owners lived downstairs and their married daughter and SIL lived upstairs and [and paid less then market value rent while they saved for a downpayment for a home). My situation had a slight twist in that my parents owned the house and my mother's parents (and her younger brother) were renters who lived upstairs.

My grandmother HATED my father and called him a "dumb Pollack" constantly. Eventually, I hated my grandmother for dissing my beloved father; my grandmother kinda forgot that her grandchildren were Pollacks, too.

Long story short, if people don't respect each other, the financial and other benefits of shared living aren't worth much.

My Mother would never, ever give anything with sugar in it to my kids. on her defense though, she did raise 2 diabetic kids.

But when she told the kids they were eating "poison" when my wife fed them the Honey Nut Cheerios for breakfast...

Dems are fighting words too!

Duh,

Before you start the pity party for yourself and attribute our collective reactions to some sort version of denial of what you characterize laughably as "the Truth", realize that your venom isn't targetted at all working parents, only employed moms.

Let's break it down for you: At least one person in each family has to work so we're not a burden to society. Depending on the job security, health, etc. of the one spouse, it's possible that both parents must work. Are all working parents trading in their titles, in your view, or only the women? Why? What if dad's disabled and mom's wages are supporting the family. What if dad can only get contract-work so while sometimes they both work, more often it's mom's work that provides the financial consistency to pay the light bill?

You are free to have your opinion, but not to make blanket judgments about the values of a wide-range of parents on the board whose personal situations you do not know and do not appreciate. I hope your choices have worked out well for you.

now, back to MILs . . . .

I had VERY YOUNG parents - mom was 16, dad was 17 when I was born. My paternal grandparents were my 'other parents' - they provided financially what my parents couldn't, we spent evenings with them occasionally and frequent weekends (always Sunday dinner). When I came home from college a new graduate looking for a place to live, I lived with them, not my parents. When I had to move out of my apartment in less than a week due to the apartment being suddenly unliveable due to mold, I moved in with them. I became the practical support for my parents after college, in fact - balancing their checkbook, shopping for them, etc. because it was sometimes more than they could handle, practically (mom is stay-at-home, dad is a full-time musician).

My parents were always the 'emotional support' for my sister and I - my grandparents were the practical support. Mom taught me how to make cakes, Grandmother taught me to balance a checkbook. Dad taught me how to check the oil in the car, grandfather taught me how to appraise jewlery. They balanced each other.

I had an unusual childhood. When DD gained my parents and grandparents (her only great-grandparents) at 11 she got people who spoil her from afar. I kind of regret that she won't get the close relationship I had with them, but a 16 hour drive is a much greater barrier than a 15 minute one.

My only fear is that when I have a baby, my parents will move here. They're still not practical most of the time, and I can only imagine the headaches.

I think you're reading your own biases into what Mary Ellen wrote. It is not wrong to want to raise your own child the way you want to. This is all she is saying. Sure, she has it "good" by having a family member as a child care provider and so may want to compromise a bit, but there is nothing wrong with wanting your children to be raised your way. And it shouldn't matter that someone else is taking care of them while your work.

I really feel sorry for those who choose to condemn working women. Holy cow, how nasty. I can only imagine how unhappy these people are.

Leslie, put the real mom on the blog next time - the MIL, not the imposter Mary Ellen.

My parents are 65 and still work full-time and are over 2 hours away, but my mom comes down most weekends a month - not to provide daycare but to see spend time with all of us.

The best development has been in the summer now that all 3 kids are older they are taking turns spending time with her: going to day camp in D.C. (more options than there are here) and going on short trips. Best of all, each of them gets individual attention from her, something that is hard for my husband and I to give on a daily basis. Being a grandmother is different than being a mom, but it in that difference lies its benefits.

I can see how living with a parent can cause some disagreements, but for those of you who say that they make comments over the phone or during short visits, you can take control of that.

Don't go into detail about your child rearing on the phone. "Oh, Joey's doing great! Today we went to the park and he popped another tooth. That's about it. How are you doing?" Then what can the MIL say?

I never give a lot of details because it opens up the door for people to comment. I know so many couples who tell their parents all their business and then get mad when the parents give advice or their opinions, whether it's financial, relationship issues, or childrearing, etc. If they didn't want their opinions and they know that the parents tend to be buttinskis, why did they even bring up the subject? We don't have to tell our parents everything.

My husband and I never tell our parents or anyone else our personal business and the funny thing is that our parents are not even bttinski's. Well, maybe they're not because we don't give them the opportunity.

We have asked our parents advice about a few things and they're glad to help, but they don't expect us to do exactly as they say just because we asked. You're free to make your own decisions.

My husband and I don't have children, and my MIL is constantly harassing us about when I will pop a few out. I am about to graduate from professional school and obviously have other priorities right now. However, I have no doubt that if we ever have a child, she will be right there telling us how to raise it.

Woolybugger, haven't seen you around these parts before. Are you merely a new nom de plume for one of our regulars, or have you always been this bitter?

so just to confirm, the "real mom" of any child is the person who is with them between the hourse of 8 and 6 Monday through Friday. Who bears the title of "real dad" in the version of life that you play? If the child goes in the hospital for an extended stay, do the Rules state that the nurse in charge temporarily claims the title, "Real Mom" or does that title remain with MIL?

Mary Ellen is the birth mother. She popped them out and went to work. MIL is the real mother. She did the hard work of raising them.

No, duh, you're being harshly criticized because the notion that long hours at work automatically make you less of a presence in your child's life just isn't true. I loved my babysitter (who, granted, my parents chose in large part based on how well her caretaking style meshed with their philosophies) and my grandparents when I went to visit them, but Mom was always Mom, whether she was physically there or not. And I've seen enough of how stir-crazy she goes when she doesn't have a small project to work on during a long stretch of days off to know that plasma TVs are way down on the list of reasons for why she puts so much time and energy into her job. I may not want to follow her model precisely when I have kids, but I hope I can find a balance that works as well for me and my family as hers did for us.

you haven't answered the question. Who is the "real dad" of this child?

Read it for yourself - these are the things a mom does, and that mom is the MIL.

"someone who loves them and would never park them in front of the TV all day. When they were babies she constantly played with them, read to them, let them fall asleep in her lap, and just provided wonderful care. We never had to worry about picking kids up from day care. Once they were in school, she supervised homework until we got home. In summertime, we didn't worry about putting them in day camp just to have child care. The kids stayed home, read, played in the yard and went to the pool. My husband and I could work late (once in a while only -- she's quick to let us know when she feels taken advantage of). To this day, she feeds my kids dinner before I get home so I don't have to rush home worrying about starving children."

Second point, Mary Ellen said they bought the house with her (MIL). So the MIL is co-owner of the house. Therefore, she has a big say in what goes on.

Yet, Mary Ellen complains. UNGRATEFUL!
"I've had very little control over what she's done with the kids while I've been at work. She's free with her opinions when I am home. She's always been very forthright about what she will and will not do. "

I have made it clear- in some families, both parents must work. Even more difficult, in single parent families there rarely is an option to work. They are doing the best they can.

Let me be more clear on one issue though, I am not targeting mom's. I just think that if a family can scale back its consumption so that one parent is home more- that is a good thing.

The knee jerk reactions on this board are funny, and sad. Not a lot of introspection going on here. Just regurgitated platitudes.

We are a consumer driven economy. We all fall victim to this. However, once the family is provided for financially, if both parents continue to work full-time at outside jobs they have chosen career over family. They, by choice, are not full-time parents. And, as such give up certain decision making rights. This appaers to be what happened to Mary Ellen's family.

Are you all so tied up in toiling for trinkets that you can't see that maybe the "expensive" private school isn't as important to a child as time with your parents?

Can those who say my argument has NO validity whats