I blame my mom for my allergies, because she didn't breast feed me.

There are some other things I'd like to pin on my parents, but they really aren't fair topics. So I'll just stick with the first one.

To dadwannabe from yesterday:

Does your wife's Fed office have a Leave Donation program? I have donated to a number of folks for various reasons, including narcolepsy and ADD. One woman in my office received a year's worth of donated Leave for something like your wife's situation.

Blaming your parents is the national pastime? How about blame somebody for anything that doesn't go your way. Late for work - soemone else drove too slowly. Kid not succeding at school - bad teachers. No one in this country wants to be accountable for anything anymore. Maybe your kid is in jail because you were a lousy, absent parent, maybe not - but you've certainly got to be open to the idea. Everyone needs to spend more time looking inside themselves where the real accountability lies and that includes the kids with lousy parents and the parents who are lousy.

Let me add, that I'm really speaking about garden variety bad parents, not parents who are abusive or live in extreme poverty - I know nothing about that and cannot speak to that experience.

I grew up in the 50's and 60's. I was taught to never criticize my elders and never speak ill of the dead. This philosophy fostered a societal cover-up for the adults who abused, neglected, beat and raped children and wives.

As for the blame game being a 20th century (and 21st century) phenomenon, seems to me there are a lot of writings before the 20th century that point out bad parenting.

moxiemom- THANK YOU! I have nothing to add.

'blame my mom for my allergies, because she didn't breast feed me.'

I am hoping this isn't serious. There may or may not be a causal relationship and the sooner that we realize the breatfeeding is not the end all and be all that it is portrayed as today, the better. I am not against breast feeding, I just don't think that someone HAS to do in order to be a good mom.

Once I had kids any "blame" I had for my parents pretty much dissappeared. There was plenty they did wrong but so much more they did right. You just try not to make the same mistakes with your own kids.

I know some extraordinary people who had horrible childhoods. I also know plenty of people that blame almost everything on their parents - and they are miserable. Somewhere along the way people either learn to cope or not. It is such a crap shoot - it is one of the things I think about as a parent.

I don't think it's uniquely American, but I think Americans have more time to blame their parents because in general the country's so wealthy that people have the mental room to navel-gaze (like on this blog). Also I think sacrificing for your kids, that all parents do, is less visible here because even after all the sacrifices people are relatively well off. I didn't grow up here, and when my parents sacrificed for my future you couldn't miss it: they never had new clothes, they never owned their own home, they never took vacations, etc. They invested all their resources to give us opportunities. So I look back and I'm grateful.

I believe you lose your "right" to blame your parents for your failures about the time you turn 21. You are an adult. You are making your own choices. You are aware of resources available to assist you to improve. Even if it is just the library, we all can learn to improve those areas that need it.
If you choose NOT to do this, it is YOUR fault, not your parents.

I seem to recall the opening of "Anna Karenina"including the phrase "unhappy families are each unhappy in their own way"- so, no, i don't think it's modern or uniquely American.

I think there is a "survivor gene". Some people have it and some don't. We all know of people who have had terrible childhoods and are able to rise above it and become very successful (Oprah comes to mind). There are other people who allow themselves to become victims and blame everyone else for their problems and shortcomings. I am not trying to say that people don't have true problems but what is it that makes some people able to get past them when others can't? Not so sure it is parents or upbringing.

I would be convenient but I do not blame my parents for my choices.

I have learned from my parents mistakes, my inlaws, and yes the horror even my own.

My daughter is being raised to be accountable for her own choices. She loves
us depends on us at age five but will be her own woman.

My husband thinks I am mean because she can do most of her own laundry. He did like
it when she matched and folded his socks.

I do encourage a lot play but sometimes skills need to be learned.

I will be forever grateful for my parents (now in their 70's). Sure, they made plenty of mistakes, but they got a lot of things right. And I never knew until very recently that my father was raised in a terribly broken home with no father of his own, and a rather neglectful mother; somehow he put this past him when he and my mother became their own family.

They taught me about faith, courage, loyalty, and integrity, and I don't think I could ask for anything else.

Blaming others has become part of American society. Why take responsiblity for your own actions? Failure to take responsibility for yourself and your actions is becoming a cultural force. It means your parents made your life lousy, and you should watch your neighbors, too - they may hold you down as well. We've become paranoid. We worry about what others do and don't worry about how badly we act. After all, none of it is our fault, and we're not half as bad as others we know! Placing blame has become a kind of cultural zero-sum game. We have to identify who did what to whom and keep score. If we don't win, we've lost. It's everywhere, from education to politics to a general loss of civility. Perhaps I'm being a bit critical, but then, is it really my fault that I behave this way? I'm just like everyone else. I blame the rest of you.

I blamed my mom for most of my problems, until I had my son. Now I get it, and we have a much better relationship.

I think blaming parents is a scapegoat, but an easy one that we get stuck in a lot.

I agree with CommonSense and moxiemom. It isn't blaming your parents per se. It is about giving yourself an out for not doing your best, for just being lazy, ...

KB, I completely agree with you. I'm not sure why some are able to rise above their miserable or disfunctional childhoods and others are not, but it is true that there seem to be two paths -- victim or survivor. I think that it comes down to making a choice about how you want to live your life. It seems to be easier to be a victim, which is probably why there are more of them.

I suppose my view is rather contrarian, but I think that some of what is mislabeled as placing blame is actually constructive and introspective analysis. My husband, for example, grew up in a family that, while not at all abusive or neglectful, was rife with dysfunction. He's turned a critical eye toward many things that he witnessed or experienced in his parent's home in order to avoid replicating negative behaviors himself. For instance, he's thought a lot about the way his parents communicate and the reasons that their conversations so often devolve into fights. Doing so has made it possible for him to avoid doing those same things when he and I are interacting. And yet, his brothers who've really cherished the idea that their childhood was something just waiting to be captured by Norman Rockwell are quick to label this as blaming/criticizing their parents. (I should note that my husband doesn't trot these thoughts out in front of his siblings, it's just that the few times it's come up over the years they've been almost instantly defensive.)

I think that there is something to be said for understanding how your childhood affected who you are today. That, in itself is NOT blaming your parents in some vindictive way, but it may be saying "My mom had a weakness in X area, and she did not know how to teach me to be better at it, so I also have a weakness in X area."

Now, you do not need that information so you can say, "Poor me, my life is terrible", but so you can use it for self improvement and make sure you don't pass along whatever issue this might be.

I think it is worth distinguishing between pointlessly blaming your parent so you can have an excuse (Bad) and identifying what personal deficiencies you might be able to trace back to your parents so you can improve (Good).

How is this relevant to work/life balance?

I never really 'blamed my parents' until I became a parent myself.

That's when severe post partum depression made me realize how much I had internalized things that happened in my childhood. I was not able to be the parent I wanted to be until I dealt with those things within myself.

I blame them in the sense of realizing that their actions shaped how I negatively interacted in adult relationships. It made realized how much I had internalized my anger at them, and was directing it at myself.

And then I let it go. I did not confront my parents, write them letters, and other things that therapists suggested.

I am cordial with my parents; I do not live near them. Why dredge up the past? None of are the people we were at that point in time. I've moved past all that.

It gives me unbounded pleasure to see how happy my children are compared to how I had it as a child.

Um... What TC said.

I blame Freud. Didn't he come up with the idea that it's all the mother's fault? :-)

Seriously, though, it seems like after the 60s, society went from this "stiff upper lip" mentality to "getting in touch with your inner self" (the 70s weren't called the "me" decade for nothing). So people started looking for the root of their destructive feelings and patterns -- usually childhood, ergo back to the most powerful figures in childhood. (Of course, real therapy tries to identify the cause of a problem just as step one toward fixing it, but that seems to get lost in translation.)

Why do we focus on it? Sometimes it's an effort to understand and make peace with it, which is the sense I get about Mr. Dickerson's book from last week's blog. But sometimes it's because we want an excuse not to take responsibility. Blaming someone else is the "safe" route, because it gives you an excuse not to try anything, and if you don't try, you can't fail. So you can sit there and say, gee, I could have found a cure for cancer, but my mom made me study business, so It's Not My Fault that I never accomplished anything -- and you never have to face the reality that you probably wouldn't have found a cure for cancer even if your mom had been perfect.

I have a brother like this, who is 30+ and still living at home -- he has serious problems with depression, yes, but also seems like he'd rather sit and be angry with his parents for everything they ever did than actually try to DO anything. He has to hang onto that, because it's his only excuse for not trying. I used to think that way, too -- my mother is exceedingly strong-willed, and when I felt powerless, it was easy to blame her for anything that didn't go my way.

But when I grew up, I realized that thinking that way was KEEPING me powerless, because it was letting my own success depend on other people's thoughts and actions. And I decided I'd rather live my life and see what I CAN do than sit around blaming the world for everything I COULDN'T. Even at the risk of discovering I'm not as brilliant and successful and perfect as I'd like to think. :-)

To TC: I don't think you are being contrary at all. It is probably a good thing to look at how we were brought up and make changes (like your husband has done). My mother left the family when I was 16. I was the oldest and was in charge of an alcoholic father and a younger brother and sister. Basically a mom at 16. I cooked, cleaned, shopped and went to high school. I turned out ok - never married but am ok. I don't necessarily blame my parents for my not getting married but I certainly didn't have a great view of marriage as a kid.

My parents did as well (or better) than anyone should have expected and that is over. My situation is my fault or accomplishment. I hate it to read "I drank because my father drank." Give me a break.

I grew up in the scary, dirty house that frightened people away. My parents are not bad people, just severely eccentric, and never really took the time to clean or make a home for us. (Books, we got those! A couch -- not so much.)

I consider myself extremely lucky that I ever got married -- since after meeting my parents and seeing our house, most men ran screaming in the other direction. I actually discovered a website for children of compulsive hoarders and discovered that most of them never marry. I regret the loss at holidays -- since we can never get together with my siblings at my parent's house -- mostly because the spouses are so horrified at the mess in the house that they can't face going there.

It's not about blame anymore -- just acknowledging the loss and moving on. We all have them -- things we wish were different -- in all cultures. It's only human.

"I don't think it's uniquely American, but I think Americans have more time to blame their parents because in general the country's so wealthy that people have the mental room to navel-gaze (like on this blog)."

...and the people who have more reason to blame their parents have less time and freedom to do so. An expecting teenage American gets encouraged to blame her pregnancy on her mother choosing to earn a salary or have a social life or whatever. An expecting teenage Fulani gets discouraged from blaming her pregnancy on her father's choice to marry her off when she was 10 or 13 or whatever.

The most ridiculous cases of the blame game are criminals who get off easy because they had a bad childhood.

Each of us has specific tendencies, either brought on by nature or nurture. Some have a bad temper, others are type A, some have compulsive tendencies, etc. Yet all of us exercise control and discipline over our urges. We choose how to act. Some behavior is easier for us, others are a big struggle. Don't blame anyone for it. Nature and nurture dictate your tendencies, but ultimately only you are responsible for your actions.

I used to "blame" my parents until I realised that what I thought was a weakness was actually a strength. For example, when I was 10-13yrs old, I was sent to a boarding school in another country to live and study on my own. It was a difficult time for me, but today I can trace my discipline, independence and mental toughness to going through that difficulty. So do I blame my parents or thank them instead?

Remember that parents do what they think is best for you at that time. Sometimes hindsight says it was a bad decision, but they had good intentions and acted in your best interests.

"Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it. " Proverbs 22:6 from the good book

It took a long time for Oprah to rise above her childhood; she still lives with the memory of the child she bore (who died) at the age of 14, she had a long term affair with a married man, and she had a cocaine habit for a while. She and her mother have been estranged for many years.

Some people aren't able to shrug off the past like a garment and move on. Some scars never heal.

In a discussion last week about the childless by choice, I suggested that one reason that more adults chose to remain childless was because they were raised in an indulgent environment that catered to their childish wants, needs, and desires. Thus, being the child meant getting what you want when you want it with no thought to compromise or common interest. Thus, they chose not to replace themselves as the child by bearing a child of their own. Meaning they could continue to excercise their childish selfishness on themselves.

I think the trend to be critical of our parents is another side to this same coin. Typically, when we mature we get over and/or move past the preceived shortcomings of our parents. But what if people don't mature in certain ways and retain a childlike/childish perspective? Then, perhaps, they continue to see their parents as the flawed oppressors who just don't get them.

As others have said, abuse and gross neglect is another matter all together.

You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a good bye.

Teach your children well,
Their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picks, the one you'll know by.

Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you will cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

And you, of tender years,
Can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth,
They seek the truth before they can die.

Teach your parents well,
Their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picks, the one you'll know by.

Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you will cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

This society just doesn't want to be held accountable for anything. We blame our parents, kids, spouses, coworkers, bosses, friends, politicians, etc...

Some is justified, but most is just a kee-jerk reaction. Admitting fault or wrongdoing is a character flaw most just can't live with.

Our future generation is going to have lots of blame to place on us, though. Rightfully so, too! Our materialistic, SUV-obsessed society is painting a bleak picture for our kids. One day there won't be any fields or natural forests for them to see, because we just keep building and building. But what do we care? We need something to cart them around and house them? Besides, we'll be dead then. They'll just have to deal!

Right?

Sure there are things I would have liked to have been different as a child, but my parents did what they thought was right. Most of the time, it was right. What I find funny how my parent point out my mistakes with my children. Sometimes I applaud there wisdom and sometime I cringe.

Why do we blame our parents? Because it is easy to be an armchair quarterback. It is easy for me to say now that perhaps my parents should have made some different choices, because I know how it all worked out. At the time, they were doing the best they could, which frankly was pretty darn good. Additionally, what happened to the adage "That which does not kill us, only makes us stronger"? If my parents had made different choices (and perhaps indulged my sister and me a little more), we might be different people today, and not necessarily in a good way. The experiences we had as children shape who we are today - but that shouldn't always be a burden, necessarily.

Careful there, An Dliodoir:

That might be true for some, but please don't blanket the childless or childfree with that explanation, because they're not all selfish.
It would be just as unfair to say that all parents are selfish, and use their status to get what they want, simply because they have a child. Not all parents are, but the argument certainly goes both ways.

What about stuff some parents do in the present instead of in the past? Does disliking any of this count as a round of the blame game?

For one little and certainly non-abusive example, suppose your boss encourages you to dress for the office and your parents encourage you to dress for the weather. If you get fired despite following your family's "everyone sweats, so getting sweat stains on the way to the Metro stop isn't dirty" advice in summer or their "it's cold out, wear puffy parkas and sweaters instead of fitted jackets and suits" advice in winter, how grateful should you be? If you still dress for your job and still talk to your parents but they keep nagging you to adopt the camping look for the commute, what can you say without being a whiner?

"Some people aren't able to shrug off the past like a garment and move on. Some scars never heal."

I believe there's nothing you can't rise above if you try. You owe it to yourself to stop blaming other people and take control to have a better life. And YOU are the only one who can make it happen.

My brother and I are very different people - we were raised very differently in a very traditional household. Although I was expected to go to college, I am not sure I was ever expected to 'be' anything. I think my struggles with math were overlooked as a 'girl thing.' I never thought to demand that they find extra help for me in that area. Today, my brother is a doctor and after two Masters (done simultaneously), I still don't really know what I want to do. My mom played favorites with my brother - overtly and it is well-acknowledged in the family - that has been something that has been very hard for me to deal with through the years and may or may not have some influence on how I view myself today. So sometimes I feel a little bit like a failure because I don't have the great career my brother does - but, on the other hand, I have had all the same opportunities he had. I don't know - I do think it is a combination of all of it - personality, outside influences, education, opportunity. etc. I think if I had more self-confidence, I would have been more certain about a career path.
All of the above is a big part of why I don't think I want to have kids (plus bro has three 'perfect' ones so can't compete there, anyway). Although hubby and I are well-aware of how we would like to do things differently from both families, well, we will see. . .

Only YOU can prevent forest fires!

I am at the time in my life where my siblings and I are becomming more of the "parents" to our parents. My mother lives alone but needs financial assistance. We help as much as we can. My dad passed away last year after a lengthy illness. We all helped. Thank goodness we all have jobs that were able to do that as we all live far away and had to take weeks off at a time to care for him. And thank goodness that we all get along and were able to agree on his care.

I think the American way is to blame someone else for everything. No one takes any responsibility for anything these days. Blaming parents is just one example.

Meh,
I hear ya. There are plenty of good reasons to remain childfree (by choice), just as there are many reasons to justiably lay responsibility for certain things at the feet of ones parents. However, many childfree adults cite freedom to go on vacation or spend more money on themselves as their primary reason to forego children. Me, me, me, me me. That's what I hear from that crowd.

In that same vein, some blame their parents for things in spite of overwhelming evidence that their own decisions have led them to the misery/conflict/shortcoming they face. Some adults don't accept personal responsiblity for their actions/decisions. . .just like a child.

Americans always blame someone else. They look everywhere and especially at corporations to place the blame. Now they are starting to sue McDonalds for making them fat. This culture perpetuated by ambulance chasing lawyers.

I actually think it's because, as a whole, we try to be and are better parents that we get blamed more. As we become more and more involved in our children's lives and place a higher priority on our kid's feelings and needs - we also raise the bar for how they view US as parents.

Also, there is nothing wrong with realizing that your parents messed up in a lot of ways. I have moved on, but that doesn't replace issues that I had grwoing up and as a yougn adult being raised in an alcoholic home. I'm not BLAMING, but it certainly AFFECTED my life. How could it not? We are not completely seperate entities from our parents- there is no way that the first FORMATIVE 18 years of our lives won't affect our behavior.

I think that blaming parents is more of an American concept. I don't find "parent blaming" in my large Dominican family or in my husband's Italian family.

I blame my mom for my allergies, because she didn't breast feed me.

Are you for real?? My cousin's kids were breast fed and all three use nebulizers because they have breathing problems from allergies. I don't by that excuse.

I don't blame my parents for anything. But when I think of the poor choices they made I feel very sad for the wonderful lives that they could have had, but threw away with both hands.

Maybe the problem in our society now is that we expect people to be perfect - and if they aren't, we delight in assigning blame. We are trying to teach our children to be more accepting of other cultures, religions, etc. - but we're not teaching them the old "no one's perfect" lesson anymore. I'm certainly not a perfect parent - but I hope my children grow up to appreciate my eccentricities.

I blame my parents because I don't look like Heidi Klum or Christie Brinkley. Now I can't be a model - all their fault.

I too hope the 'blaming mom for allergies since she didn't bf' is not serious.

Since my dd had severe food allergies while I bf her, this is a subject I delved deeply into while trying to figure out how I could possibly get her health under control.

Current as of that date 6 years ago, the bf/allergy connection is much more complex than the common knowledge spin. Yes, in general, bf children have lower rates of asthma and allergy later. That's among the general population, and is an epidemiological effect: it affects aggregate rates mildly, making one group slightly more likely than another to develop allergy but neither highly likely, and it's far from a predictor of who will get allergies. Moreover, if one looks more closely, studies that distinguish the allergy status of the mom show different results. For moms who are normal, or not experiencing allergy during pregnancy, (measured by blood levels of IgE), bf their child reduces the child's chances of allergy and asthma. But for the most allergic moms, those in the top third for blood IgE levels, bf actually increases their child's allergy risk versus formula feeding. And these are the babies at highest risk of allergy and asthma to start with.

I've also read interesting research on the striking immunological differences in the composition of breastmilk of moms of severely allergic, versus nonallergic, babies. My hope would be that such research might eventually lead to a way to treat allergy moms or supplement their breastmilk in a way that reduces their babies' risk exposure at the most dangerous times.

Now, I didn't learn all this til my dd was firmly in the bf and highly allergic camp and changing that would change the whole context of our relationship (not to mention, bf babies older than 4-6 months nearly always cannot be persuaded to accept the prescription formulas). Among my allergy mom list, all very very informed, we clearly accepted that both bf and formula are problematic for allergic kids, and involve tradeoffs. I knew people in the most desperate of situations either way --- the nonprescription 'hypoallergenic' formulas still cause allergic reactions in 15% of babies, who move on to prescription formulas (like Neocate) costing more than $1000/month. What's worse, I knew babies who were developing reactions even to those, and at that point, the formula industry stops manufacturing options for your 1 in a million sick baby. Bf highly allergic babies may have higher risk and wider exposures leading to more sensitivities, but the one thing a bf mom can do is always control changes to her diet, she can always tinker and search search search to find a diet that will adapt to her baby's allergies and be safe. That adaptability being under a mom's direct control is a huge plus of the bf side; knowing that nobody else has the final control in saying you are out of options to help your sick child. Though I also knew bf moms who weren't figuring it out, who were dropping 100+ pounds themselves without stabilizing, while their babies were still sick and not growing too. Most of us went through acute phases like that and somehow sorted it out, but some seemed to struggle forever . . .

So, the bf/allergy connection is subtle and not even obvious which way at the individual level. Plus, 2 or more decades ago, parents would have been unaware of any connection. I don't think you can blame parents for not being omniscient, for doing their best with the knowledge reasonably available to them at the time. One can regret that better information wasn't available, but that's not the same as blaming the parent.

There is an irrational, dogmatic edge to fringe elements in the bf advocacy camp, as anywhere. I remember when I posted widely for help in my crisis days, before getting connected to the right knowledgeable community, so out of options that I was beginning to examine not bf. I got responses like "if the baby is so sick while bf, not bfing would kill her." Clearly helpful; clearly adds to my knowledge base. And once I was connected, when I stuck around misc.kids.bf to catch new moms presenting in allergy crisis, to give some advice and point them to our allergy mom group, the recurrence of such questions and response every few weeks aggravated some of the other regulars. They even had a thread suggesting the allergy posts go away, since most bf babies don't have these problems and discussing them makes it sound like bf can be hard. It might discourage people from trying bf, you know, if they think well maybe baby would have allergies and I might have to adjust my diet. This really enraged me --- as if sticking to a propaganda line is worth denying reality and refusing to acknowledge and help real babies and moms in medical crisis. A baby's suffering may be inconvenient counterpoint to your worldview, but the baby and not the worldview takes precedence.

I think there can be blameworthy medical situations. A friend of my dd's now has struggled with uncontrolled asthma, missing lots of school, birthday parties she'd planned on attending, and worse, it made her miss a session of horse camp with her friends that I know she had been terribly excited about and looking forward to for months. My heart ached for her. Much later, when I picked up my dd after this friend's slumber party, I was stunned. I walked in the door and the whole time there my sinuses hurt, my breath was short, and I felt my fight-or-flight, must escape before asthma attack starts, response. I cannot believe a parent of a child with such severe asthma still routinely smokes in the house! To me, in this day when the risks and connections are well-known and the first question/advice out of any doctor's mouth when treating asthma, this is blameworthy parenting.

Disclaimers: my dd outgrew all her allergy issues by 4yo, so it really is a crisis that's past. Also, I've been posting as KB for a while but there's another poster KB Silver Spring, I'm hoping people won't confuse us too badly.

I think blaming your parents is appropriate when they are at fault. A lot of people are uncomfortable confronting their family or standing up for themselves.

Sometimes there is value to getting a long-standing gripe off your chest, so that everybody can move on. Especially if your parent is still doing whatever it is that you resent them for.

Placing the blame where it belongs can be a key part of changing complicated bad patterns in families. OK the "I drink because my Dad drinks" comment that an earlier poster made might not be that useful. But on the other hand, directing that blame to the person who is responsible can be an important way to change things for the better, a la "You are an alcoholic. You set a horrible example for me, and make it hard for me to be sober. Call us when you stop drinking."

"However, many childfree adults cite freedom to go on vacation or spend more money on themselves as their primary reason to forego children. Me, me, me, me me. That's what I hear from that crowd"

Those are probably not the real reasons those adults chose to be childfree. It's none of your business why anyone chooses to have or not have a child. What do you care? And for the zillionth time, if someone doesn't want a child, get off their back! Some people have an inner voice that guides them. Nagging someone is not going to make them a good parent!

"However, many childfree adults cite freedom to go on vacation or spend more money on themselves as their primary reason to forego children. Me, me, me, me me. That's what I hear from that crowd"

What on earth is wrong with this point of view? If a person postpones having kids so they can do all this with their spouse, is that also me, me, me selfishness, or a way to love/enjoy/get to know their spouse? Once you're married, is delaying getting pregnant selfish? I think my 5 years of marriage without kids has been incredible for my marriage! And now we're having a baby. What a selfish horrible person I am to want to bring a baby into a happy, strong marriage.

(1) I was breastfed and, at 23, became the only person in my family to develop allergies. I don't think it works like that...

(2) I do not have anything to blame my parents for. They aren't perfect, but they love me and raised me to be a responsible adult. Now that I am at an age where I am thinking about having kids, my biggest obstacle is not financial or emotional - it's societal. I am very worried that my parenting skills will not be able to compete with the children my kids go to school with. It seems as though our society is getting more and more indulged and blame-happy. I do not want my kids to go to school with kids who think they can do no wrong. If my kid fails math or gets into a fight, I expect their to be serious reprocussions - at school and at home. I don't want some other parent coming in and saying that their child is a perfect angel who would never start a fight with my child - so there must be something wrong with the school. (I used to be a teacher and saw this EVERY day, so no exaggeration here.) I am terribly worried that the lessons and values I teach my kids will make them hate me the second Susie gets a brand-new BMW for her 16th birthday, or Brent doen't understand why my son can't go to the movies because he already used up his allowance.

While the blame game is only part of this, the growing concept of "I can do no wrong" in our society is shocking. How do those of you who are parents do it? How do you raise your kids to be responsible adults in the mdist of so much indulgence and in a society where blaming others is encouraged?

To KB regarding Neocate and allergy moms group.....

Is there a website for this allergy moms group? Babies who take Neocate?

I think there must be some truth to the idea that some people are wired differently from the start--survivors versus victims. For years, I haven't been able to figure out my brother. I'm one of six kids and we had a ridiculously idyllic childhood--nice house in the suburbs, parents loving but with decent discipline and limitations placed on us, tons of other kids in the neighborhood and long days and evenings spent playing base runners and S.P.U.D., public schools for the first few years, then moved into private schools through high school. Family vacations camping and visiting relatives. Really nice childhood and for five of the six, it seemed to work--we've grown into well adjusted, happy, productive adults. My brother, however, can't get over the misery of his childhood and completely blames our parents for his misery and failings as an adult. I have no clue what misery he sees in this childhood--he points to the discipline (being grounded for breaking rules) and perceived slights (missing tryouts for a team once because they conflicted with a family vacation). He stopped speaking to us for several years, and even went so far as to legally change his last name. The rest of us are just scratching our heads in confusion, trying to figure out how he can see this childhood and our family as anything other than loving and supportive. And he is equally confused, not able to figure out why the rest of us don't see how dysfunctional and horrible our parents were. I don't get it.

What I don't understand is the chicken-and-egg question--does he blame our parents and his upbringing and therefore isn't able to move forward in his life now, thus leading to problems with marriage, unemployment, weight, etc. OR does he have problems with his job, marriage, weight, etc. and needs to place the blame somewhere so it lands (undeservedly IMO) on our parents?

I actually think we blame, or should I say attribute our situations to our parents because as a nation of immigrants in a land where everyone is equal we look to understand our place in the world by latching onto an individualistic identity.

The classic American dream is the self-made man/woman. We love to overcome adversity. Some of us give up and quit trying - we're blamers. Others of us struggle with the cowboy myth our entire lives - we're dreamers.

How many of us own self-help books? It's the American way.

It gives us more control to say our parents did this to us. It wasn't fate, it was destiny, and Americans love a story that overcomes destiny. It's our national character.

I think getting over mistakes your parents may have made is part of growing up. For me it happened when I became a Mom. You suddenly see just how hard it is, and recognize that we each (hopefully) are trying to do our best, our parents included.
However... the short haircuts when I was a little girl that made people mistake me for a boy... I think I might need to have a couple more kids to put that one in perspective and fully forgive my mom!! ;)

"Is this blame game a uniquely American, 20th century phenomenon?"

Geez, Leslie --

Ever heard of Freud?

"You are an alcoholic. You set a horrible example for me, and make it hard for me to be sober. Call us when you stop drinking."

This is a good example of a victim speaking. All of this may be true, but it does no good to dwell. YOU are the one who makes it hard for you to stop drinking. No one else. Only you.

yes, I'm the original "blame mom for allergies." Do you actually think I was 100% serious? It's fun to play on your parents' guilt sometimes and I expect my son to do it to me in good humor.

You people take this stuff so seriously, sheesh.

Here's a list you should all resist the need to critique:

I blame my parents for my:

* white skin (I'll never be able to rock a bright orange or yellow shirt), oh yeah and the white guilt too
* wearing glasses (can't fly for the air force in combat)
* being short (do you know how hard it is for short men to find pants that fit)

life is soooo hard.

"How do you raise your kids to be responsible adults in the mdist of so much indulgence and in a society where blaming others is encouraged?"

Learn to say no. Live where the parents don't indulge the kids; send your kids to schools that share your values. Don't blame others and don't tolerate your children blaming others. You can and should have an enormous role in shaping the character of your child. It takes a lot of work.

"It's none of your business why anyone chooses to have or not have a child. What do you care? And for the zillionth time, if someone doesn't want a child, get off their back! Some people have an inner voice that guides them. Nagging someone is not going to make them a good parent!"

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

I'm gonna vote with meh on this. I think people who remain childfree in this society are brave and often a lot more self aware than many who have children. It takes a lot of courage in this society to say "I don't want kids". Lots of people have kids, not because they want them, but because they think they should and end up being lousy parents.

I'd also beg to differ on the "selfish" issue. I'm a SAHM who doesn't think that having children is some sort of selfless endeavor. There is a lot of ego tied up in these little people. A lot of parents get a lot of self satisfaction through their kids. They feel good about themselves when their kid is pretty or does something well, not good for their kid. Get the difference.

Bravo to the childless! I hope you enjoy your choice as I have mine - I hope you enjoy your luxuries (no sarcasm intended - this is a genuine wish) and I hope that my kids don't ruin the plane trip for you.

***WARNING: TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC POST**
Sorry for posting this here; it belongs to the tail-end of yesterday's discussion, when we started debating the qualities of the legal system. I initially posted it there, but I thought it might be of interest to more people than the handful who may still be reading yesterday's stuff. I don't mean to start another discussion about that here; I just thought some of you may be curious about how a lawsuit actually works.

Disclaimer: this is a description of how things work in federal court. I believe most states have similar procedural steps, but your mileage may vary. Disclaimer #2: this is a description of a civil suit. Criminal prosecutions have their own sets of rules and procedural safeguards mandated by the Constitution.

1. a complaint is filed. That's where the person suing (the plaintiff) says what the person being sued (the defendant) did that was against the law and in what way the plaintiff was damaged.

2. the defendant can immediately challenge the complaint through a motion to dismiss. A motion to dismiss basically says, assuming for the sake of argument that I actually did all the things that the plaintiff says I did, that is still not illegal. (E.g.: if my neighbor sues me because I bought a bigger car than he has and he is suffering emotional distress from it, I can ask the judge to throw out the suit because, in essence, "so what?")

3. If the defendant chooses not to immediately challenge the complaint, or loses the motion to dismiss, then the lawsuit goes on. The defendant files an "Answer" in which he gives his version of the facts. Then there is discovery, during which the parties exchange documents and interview each other's witnesses under oath (this is called a "deposition.")

4. At the end of discovery, the plaintiff and the defendant can each file what is called a motion for summary judgment. Most commonly, these are filed by the defendant. The defendant basically says: look, Judge, in order to win this lawsuit, the plaintiff has to prove A, B, and C. We are now at the end of discovery, which means that we know exactly what the plaintiff's evidence in support of his case is going to be, and there just isn't enough there for anyone in their right mind to say he wins. (e.g. my neighbor sues me because he says I drove my car into his fence, but his fence is fine, my car has no scratches, and none of the neighbors heard any noises at the time he says this happened.)

4. If there are no motions for summary judgment or the judge denies all of them, the case proceeds to trial. (Keep in mind that at any point during this entire process the parties can agree to settle the case.) A jury is picked and hears the evidence.

5. Before the jury deliberates, either party can ask the judge to hand down a verdict without submitting the case to the jury. The standard for doing this is very stringent--essentially, the judge must be convinced that no reasonable person could disagree on what the verdict can be. It is very rare for judges to do this; usually they prefer to let the jury take a shot.

6. The jury deliberates and returns a verdict. If the plaintiff wins, at the same time, or sometimes after a separate part of the trial, it also decides what the defendant should pay the plaintiff for the damages the plaintiff has suffered as a result of the defendant's illegal conduct.

7. Either party has yet another shot at changing the verdict. The losing party can move for "judgment notwithstanding the verdict"--the standard, again, being that no reasonable person could possibly have found the way the jury did. Either party can also challenge the damages, saying they are too much or too little. The judge has the authority to change the amount upwards or downwards if she believes the award to be unreasonable.

8. Unhappy parties can appeal any part of the verdict, including the damages, to the court of appeals and, theoretically, to the Supreme Court (though in practice the Supreme Court takes a minuscule number of cases). The court of appeals gets a fresh look to any legal issues (e.g. when the judge instructed the jury at trial, she was wrong about the law) but treats the jury's factual determinations with great deference.

To summarize: Truly frivolous lawsuits are weeded out at the motion to dismiss and the summary judgment stage, and if the evidence at trial was really insufficient the judge has the power to ignore a jury's clearly irrational verdict.

**END OF OFF-TOPIC POST. BACK TO PARENTS.**

There is a difference between accepting that your parents are human beings who made a few mistakes vs. blaming them for everything that has gone wrong in your life.

Acknowledging that your parents may have made a few choices that, looking back now, were questionable and then learning from their mistakes is one thing; sitting around being a jerk your entire adult life and refusing to accept any responsibility for your own choices is another altogether.

Mr. Dickerson seemed to be working his way through the latter to the former in his book, which I think is interesting and laudable.

I have two minds to this subject, one as a parent and one as a son. It is hard to raise any child and we should honor parents for their effort. I realize that this effort may have been crappy in some cases but we should still be thankful, because as we all know it is a lot of work and costly. The other mind is that some parents just suck and should not even try to have children. They are too irresponsible, self centered, neurotic,abusive or disturbed aand they should be held accountable by their children.

To Patrick: To what end is it to hold an irresponsible, self centered, neurotic, abusive or disturbed parent accountable? Identify, get help if needed, learn and hopefully move on to a better life. Blaming them and holding on to the pain and bitterness only hurts you, not them.

Jokester

What happened to Mary's baby in 1973?

I think it is helpful at some point to try and understand where your tendencies and behaviors came from, to better understand yourself. And examining your parents and how they raised you is a vital part of that. But "blaming" is a strong word. Also sounds too passive to me - as if you can't change and rise above your circumstances. That's the way I see it - it is good to understand what you are dealing with, where you are starting from, to be able to grow and move on. But if you blame your parents for your failings, it means that you are basically conceding defeat, that you are stuck.

scr- These kids always have and always will be in the system, but so many more are raised to be civilized, kind, responsible people. Their parents will be your peers. Am I the only one lucky enough to be going through pregnancy with my already tried and true friends? I'm not afraid of momzillas because I've known my mom friends for years and years, and they haven't freaked out and become demons with parenthood.

KLB, they should be held accountable for their actions, that does not mean you curl up in a fetal position for the rest of your life. It DOES help to hold them accountable because many people grow up holding THEMSELVES accountable for their parents actions when in fact the parent was probably nuts.

To TC @ 8:49 --

Not a contrarian view at all. Just sensible, reasonable, and responsible.

For many people, it's very hard to examine their childhood. There's too much risk to their worldview; shifting foundations can be terrifying.

While it may be true that Americans blame their parents for a good deal of their unhappiness, it's also true that many, many children suffer intensely as a result of their upbringing. And I'm not talking about abuse or neglect here.

Minimizing the effect that bad parenting (note, I didn't say bad "parents") can have on adult lives is a tragic dismissal of deeply buried -- and often inaccessible -- hurt that, in adulthood, can result in depression, extremely low self-worth, and desperate efforts at self-soothing (substance abuse and addiction and a range of other compulsive, destructive behaviors).

To then marginalize the problems of people suffering in this way reinforces the idea that our society thinks mental illness is a scam employed by malingerers.

I hope that we as a society can develop some compassion for people who suffer and need help coping with the effects of poor parenting.

Let me throw out this question:

To all of you who feel so strongly that nurturing is critical to healthy child development in the early years, doesn't it follow that an absence of such nurturing could have negative consequences? If love, validation, encouragement, warmth, stimulation, respect, and security are all as important to growing happy, healthy adults as you say they are (every day on this blog), then how can you attack people who didn't receive these gifts as ungrateful whiners?

Please think about this.

Thanks, moxiemom! That was a really reasonable post. I'm choosing not to have kids and there are a lot of reasons that go into this decision. Sometimes, I give the short, funny answer to intrusive questions at inappropriate times. Among my friends, I might delve into the nuance of it all. Just saying that you don't know all the reasons why people do things. YOu don't know if the model mother type got accidentally pregnant after planning to not have kids, you don't know if the person who is remaining childfree really wants kids, but can't and is trying to put a good spin on the choices life gave her.

I really like the books _How to Talk so Kids will Listen_ and _Siblings Without Rivalry_, both by Faber and Mazlisch, for sensitizing you to some of the destructive things parents and kids can say and do, not out of malice so much as out of habit. It's a good place to look to establish constructive habits and to build a nondysfunctional family without the little resentments that smolder. A little sensitizing and having a new model in mind for common day-to-day interactions goes a long way toward being a better parent.

I think the point is not to set blame, but to pull ourselves out of any ruts and inadvertently hurtful patterns we fell into as kids.

Though parents certainly can take our styles of parenting diferently as a casting of blame. My parents seem very hung up on dinnertable issues. Once when my mom was helping with my dd she started urging her to finish her plate, let's try one more bite of this, one more of that, and I told her to please stop, we don't do that. The kids eat what they need, we provide good choices and try to insure they get overall balance, but it's up to them when they stop eating. (With this dd I was especially keen to not put lots of emotional freight onto eating as she was having growth issues and having her start feeling pressured and resistant to feeling pressured about eating was something I didn't want to start, guided partially by medical advice). My mom looked hurt and asked "Do you think the way we did it was wrong?" (We were a clean your plate, you'll get nothing else but your saved cold plate from dinner til it's gone kind of family; though one sib learned to throw up at will on his plate so he was exempted.) I don't know that the policy is so much wrong as not what we're doing now (and actually, it took me a long time as an adult to break the clean your plate mantra, so that I'd stuff down huge restaurant plates even when full and even when the extra calories were definitely unhelpful to me, til my dh pointed out how stupid it was, so yes I think that policy's not the greatest but no, it's not a direct 'ha ha you're wrong about this' blaming, just doing it differently now.)

A larger blaming issue has to do with limiting your children's exposure to your own verbally abusive parent; this is something a sib and I both do, with strict limits but not full exclusion. (Abusive not only in the past, but flaring at the current kids) The abusive parent seethes about it but tough, our kids will not be subject to nasty and hurtful behavior; the nonabusive parent feels rather bewildered and second-guessed about it and pleads for us to include the abusive parent more, it's so hurtful to exclude him, it's just his way, how can we feel so strongly, etc. That's sad to catch her in the middle, but our kids have precedence on our parenting now. It's not always so much about blame as resolve.

"I am terribly worried that the lessons and values I teach my kids will make them hate me the second Susie gets a brand-new BMW for her 16th birthday, or Brent doen't understand why my son can't go to the movies because he already used up his allowance. . . . How do you raise your kids to be responsible adults in the mdist of so much indulgence and in a society where blaming others is encouraged?"

Well, first, I tend not to fear that my kids will hate me -- I just presume they will, because that means I'm doing my job!

Seriously, though, I'm my kids' mom first, not their friend. Don't get me wrong; I'm not exactly a hard-ass. But if it comes down to a choice between safety, values, rules, behavior, etc., vs. being "nice," being a "fun" parent, making them happy, etc. -- well, its my job to be the bad guy when necessary. So I don't worry or feel guilty about it, because it's going to happen, and when it does, I know that I am doing what's best long-term. I might go to bed crying that night, but I still know it's the right thing.

Look at it this way: we expect our kids to learn to value long-term rewards over immediate gratification, right? Well, that applies to us parents, too. It's definitely fun to give my kids what they want. But when what they want isn't good for them, my own desire for that immediate gratification has to take a back seat to the long-term reward of watching my kids grow into productive adults who understand limits and consequences and values.

OFF-TOPIC POST

I apologize for this off-topic post, but it's one that my husband and I include in our "things to think/work out before having babies" list. He's Italian and I'm Dominican-American, therefore we both speak different languages, and we would love for our kids to speak both Italian and Spanish. How do parents that speak different languages teach their children those languages? Do you have a set of rules (i.e. one parent speaks only on language) or have you forgone your native language(s) and speak only English to your children?

I have relatives that speak Spanglish, and I'm really trying to avoid having a kid that speaks some mix of Italian and Spanish.

We cannot escape the fact that what happens in our childhood will largely shape who we become as adults, for good or ill. I have a unique perspective as I have had two sets of parents, my biological ones and my adoptive parents. For years, particularly as a teen, I hated my bio-parents (excuse me, HEROES) and for good reason. They abandoned me and my sister, we lived in an orphanage, I was shunted off to several foster famlies and suffered abuse in at least two of them. Then I was adopted and my adoptive parents, while not perfect, showed me how to be a responsible person and how to be a positive contributor to family and society. As others have said, becoming a parent really opened my eyes to how much both sets of parents struggled to to do the right thing. I now realize that my bio-mom suffered from an extreme case of PPD. I only remember she was so damaged that she could do nothing but lay in bed sobbing. I now realize that my bio-dad was too poor, too overwhelmed with two small childen one of which as so small and sickly, that he could not take care of his wife, his sick child (my sister) and me and still survive emotionally and financially. As I have learned more about the fates of poor girls in Asia, I am more and more appreciative, dare I say, grateful, that my sister and I had the opportunity to be adopted by a loving couple and given a second chance. I know I would not have a happy marriage, a good job, and two wonderful children today if not for the hard choices my bio-parents made. As for the suffering I had to endure in my early years, much as I would never wish such experiences on anyone, for me, the old addage, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger," has certainly proven true for me, thanks in no small part, to my adoptive parents.

I'm not sure our current problem is that people blame their parents - I think a bigger problem is that parents refuse to let their kids take responsibility for anything. Doing badly in school? It's got to be: 1) the teacher's fault, 2) a chemical imbalance, 3) curriculum is not rigorous enough/too rigorous/not focused on the right thing. Kid picking on other kids? He's not a bully, he's got "low self esteem." Kid is fat? She's got: 1) Bad genes/thyroid problem, 2) It's too "hard" for her parents to fight "popular culture" - and healthy food is expensive!
I'm a parent, I get how hard these things are, but each of these has been a topic on this board and every time there is a mountain of responses of "how could you know what's best for my kid, they truly do have: a chemical imbalance/jerk for a teacher/parents who can't fight "popular culture" and get rid of Doritos. I'm not worried about my generation blaming our parents, I'm worried about the next generation never having to take responsibility for themselves.

To Tinkywinky ---

The food allergy parent group used to be the yahoo group POFAK. They've now moved to

http://kidswithfoodallergies.org

It's a wonderful group with deep expertise and many databases on medical issues, hidden ingredients, allergy-safe foods and recipes, etc. Parents of babies, bf and not, and parents of older kids are all well-represented, as are lots of different specific food allergens.

Hey secondthoughts - as they said in the 70's - keep on keepin' on. You've gotta do what's true for you and you don't owe anyone an explanation for your situation any more than I should have to explain why I chose to have these two little monkeys that show up in my bed each morning.
I've found that the most judgemental

I agree with you on any given day you don't know what the people you run into are carrying. Someone on the subway may be just returning to work after losing a spouse. Someone might not be able to get pregnant or someone who doesn't want to be might be pregnant. We all carry a lot of stuff that's invisible. I try to remember that mean people are usually unhappy people. I give 'em a pass and move on.

Ellen F and Laura - you have hit the nail on the head. Personal responsibility and limitations and boundaries are an important part of society. When people don't take responsibility and don't have boundaries they become Ken Lay.

I agree: American culture has come so much to expect perfection that one can't make any mistakes with childrearing out of the fear that one's kids will be taken away. Therefore, any departure from perfection in one's own life must be an unforgivable error on the part of one's parents!

We have studies to show that formula feeding is "dangerous", that carseats must be used until puberty, that babies must be put on their backs to sleep even when they are crawling and can clearly turn themselves into any position they want, that playing tag will kill you, and that you must tell your child "don't smoke" every day otherwise they will become drug dealers. One feels that perhaps there has been a loss of perspective (and common sense) on the part of the "establishment", and that because the "establishment" can sue/imprison/take away your parental rights, that this loss of perspective has permeated to the core of the culture.

OH. MY. STARS!!!!

If there's another post taking the first poster to task for her breastfeeding/allergy joke, I swear I will write you all off forever. Did I miss the sign at the entrance to this board that says "no sense of humor allowed. Common sense strictly prohibited."?

"If you still dress for your job and still talk to your parents but they keep nagging you to adopt the camping look for the commute, what can you say without being a whiner?"

"Thanks for caring, Mom and Dad. I'll think about what you say."

If you are old enough to have a job, you really can decide appropriate wear for yourself. Follow the policies of your work place, and don't get defensive with your parents. Just do what you know is right for you.

Thank you to the child of the compulsive hoarder - my parents were that way when I was a child too. I married another compulsive hoarder (although a cleaner one - this one hoards books and office supplies, not cats like my parents, which means the house is clean but crammed the rafters instead of coated in cat hair and stinking). Mom and dad still aren't any better - rather than dealing with the cats, they have become asetics in other aspects of their lives and moved into one room of the house which is empty except for the minimum things one needs to live, and the cats have the rest of the house to themselves. I can't say I blame them for my life - I am grateful to them in lots of ways. But it definately has influenced my life and made me who I am today.

Blaming for most of us is an act of self indulgence. It's rare that it's truly useful.

Maybe part of the blame game is the flip side of the praise game ("the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world")? If an adult's parents deserve a lot of credit when he or she does well, how much blame do they deserve when he or she does poorly?

"What happened to Mary's baby in 1973?"

More cheap labor for Mary's in-laws' farm? I've heard of some refugees keeping up that teen pregnancy tradition even for a while after they lost their farms and came to America.

"Kid is fat? She's got: 1) Bad genes/thyroid problem, 2) It's too "hard" for her parents to fight "popular culture" - and healthy food is expensive!"

3) Puberty. My mom has called my hips fat ever since they became wider than my waist.

While I think many posters here rightly recognize that many who blame their parents are self-indulgent and unwilling to accept personal responsibility, there are also many adults who, because of bad parenting, were never equipped with the personal skills of responsibility and good decision making. I have met rich people, poor peope, white, black, all of whom had awful parents and as a result, are awful people. It is easy to say that these poeple need to grow up and accept responsibility and the consequences of their actions. It is harder to accept that maybe they are incapable because their parents failed to give them the tools to be responsible adults. Remember, children are not born "knowing" how to interact socially. They must be taught and if parents, because of a lack of skills, time, or caring don't teach their children, we can hardly blame the children for not knowing better when they were never taught in the first place.

KB - how nice for you to be so perfect. What are you teaching your children by limiting their contact with grandparents? What happened to unconditional love? Your kids are learning to love grandpa as long as he isn't "hurtful" to them. God forbid they should learn how to accept that grandpa can be a real asshat, but we love him anyway.

To SCR,
I whole heartidly agree with you. I am 24 and am scared stiff about bring children into this world where people feel so entiled to things. I have seen first hand what the my-child-can-do-no-wrong mentality can do to children and adults. A few of my friends are lacking in what some consider "normal" social skills because they aren't used to not getting thier way or they don't know how to act when someone says no or has a different opinon. It's sad. I think the best you can do with children is try your best. Make an effort to mold them into well rounded adults and give them the tools to deal with life's crisis. When I was growing up my dad had this saying he would say to my siblings and I when we would complain about things out of our control. Life is tough. To some people that may seem harsh, but my dad instilled in all of us that life is not perfect and some times it's hard and you have to work your way through it, but you can do it.

I really appreciate TC and Random Guy's points of view - I think there is a real difference between acknowledging that something in your past affected you, and trying to shirk responsibility. I guess it's in how you deal with that knowledge -take it as something to help you change yourself or your situation, or take it as a reason not to do that.

I also think it's important at this stage to be able to deal with our parents as adults and be honest. When I was in college, my dad left my mom for a woman who was awful - racist, self-righteous, rude, serious eating issues, the list goes on. Spending time with her was terrible, so I chose to limit my time with her and refused to spend holidays with her, and I was very honest with my dad about why. My feeling was that he made the choice to do what he did and these were the consequences; I still loved him and had a relationship with him but I wasn't going to act as if what he did was hunky dory, and I wasn't going to put myself and, later, my family through the ordeal of spending time with her at special times like the holidays.

My brother could not confront my dad about the situation and never felt comfortable drawing his own boundaries and had a lot harder time dealing with his anger as a result - the situation just went on and on for him because he couldn't find a way to limit it. I think this made him more prone to just being angry and blaming my dad for other things, rather than being able to acknowledge the problem and make his own decisions about how to deal with it.

Thankfully, my dad finally divorced this woman and we now have a great time being together. But I think to this day I have a healthier relationship with my dad than my brother does and I think a lot of that has to do with how we coped with the situation in the first place.

You should hear my stepchildren. Two are in their twenties. Anything that goes right in there life, they did all by themselves. Anything wrong, mom and dad's fault. As the stepmom, I am not allowed to tell them it's time to grow up but I wish they would.

I blame my parents for my allergies and upper respiratory problems because they both smoked heavily in my presence, from the time I was a baby. My grandmother told me I had a bad case of pneumonia when I was three months old, and she had to ban my parents from smoking in the room when I was sick. I know that back then, people knew less about the dangers of smoking than they do now, but geez, it does not take a genius to figure out that it is a bad idea to smoke around a baby with pneumonia. Other than that, I have no major complaints.

I have been reading posts here for a few months, and this is one topic that I couldn't pass by....I find it scary that people actually blame their parents for petty things such as "being neurotic" or "not being normal."
As someone who endured years of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of my parents, I am perfectly functional adult with a knowledge that I am able to move past their mistakes and make my own life decisions. I don't understand why people can't take control of their own destiny--who else do you think will do it for you if you don't?

My SD, whom I love dearly, grew up with a mom who wants to be her best friend and so didn't impose any rules, tried to protect her from any "unpleasantness", etc. Her mom did not feel she should hear the word "no" because it would impose boundaries. (HELLO??) The result is a child so entitled that she is having serious problems coming to terms with the results of several very bad decisions. Even when forced to deal with the consequences of her actions, she plays the blame game. This is what trying to be a friend to your kids and shelter them from having to fight their own battles in life will do.

As parents, you need to decide whether you're going to try to enforce rules starting at birth, or when the child is 20 and a major screw up. Guess which is easier? Guess which is better for the child (and ultimately for you)?

To anonymous at 11:14

"Limiting" means that when we visit, we don't stay in their house, we stay in a hotel and limit home visits to a few hours so grandpa doesn't hit his detonation point. It means creating a safe zone, our family only, for the kids to retreat to. It means leaving when grandpa is out of control. It means never leaving them alone with him, where he might snap at or harm them.

It also means teaching the kids that when someone yells at you, frightens you, bullies you, belittles you, calls you names, and puts you down snidely at every opportunity, you don't have to come back for unlimited helpings, because you deserve better. In our family we don't do or say hurtful things; that is our rule; and it's as simple and neutral as that.

I don't want them to learn that we stay friends with or marry those you call "asshats"; I never want them to accept being abused. If that's not unconditional love, so be it.

KB

>KB - how nice for you to be so perfect. What >are you teaching your children by limiting >their contact with grandparents? What >happened to unconditional love? Your kids >are learning to love grandpa as long as he >isn't "hurtful" to them. God forbid they >should learn how to accept that grandpa can >be a real asshat, but we love him anyway.

I blame my mom for the size of my butt....she made the best cookies and pastries in the world. The care packages I got at college were legendary.....

"I think that there is something to be said for understanding how your childhood affected who you are today. That, in itself is NOT blaming your parents in some vindictive way, but it may be saying "My mom had a weakness in X area, and she did not know how to teach me to be better at it, so I also have a weakness in X area.""

Exactly. I'm the way I am because I am like my mother, and I have a lot of flaws. Her fault? Maybe. Her responsibility to fix it? No. I am my own person, and just because I wasn't taught money skills or academic responsibility doesn't mean I can't learn on my own.

I do blame my parents, and yes, it is shameful of me. I blame them for making poor money decisions that brought us a new car but no food to eat. I blame them for giving us toys but no health insurance. I still blame my mother for buying me decorations for my house when what I really need is help with student loan payments. It is cruel, it's wrong, and it's extremely childish. It's something that needs to stop, because I am an adult responsible for her own lifestyle. Maybe things were different when I was younger. Maybe I could blame them then for not helping me with homework or college applications. Maybe I could preach about how they should have gotten an education before they had kids. But what difference would it make? What's done is done, the past is over, and I am in charge of my future.

In short, we do blame our parents, but as noted by "Accept responsibility," once we are adults, we have the right to guide our own lives. That's what's great about growing up, if we can manage to actually do it.

"Your kids are learning to love grandpa as long as he isn't "hurtful" to them"

I think what KB's kids are learning is that they don't have to expose themselves to abuse, no matter where it comes from. I can't think of a better lesson to teach your children. Kudos to you, KB, for finding a healthy way to deal with your situation.

The Good Ole Days - 1973

Nixon Watergate Scandal

Spiro T. Agnew resigns in disgrace

Arab Oil Embargo/Energy Crisis

OPEC doubles the price of crude oil

U.S. "secret bombing" of Cambodia

Yom Kippur War (very scary)

Nov 19, New York stock market took its sharpest drop in 19 years.

Soldiers come home: estimated 34 percent of American soldiers in Vietnam had commonly used heroin.

Iraq launches a biological weapons program

You had to be there....

The "blame game" is not only an American phenomenon, but a modern human occurence. Whether it's parents, or teachers, or government, people love to blame someone else for their woes (not to say that some of these cases are unjustified). Much of it comes from the prevalent entitlement/instant gratification attitude so common among generations following the World War II era. It is a lot easier to point the finger at someone else than to look inside ourselves to discover if perhaps the source of the problem isn't external, but internal.

KB- thanks for your thoughtful post. I will look for those books.

I can completely relate to the struggles you mention- both the grand-parenting food issues, and the pressure over limiting your kid's exposure to a family member who has damaging behavior.

In our family, the "blame game" is deeply mixed up with current wrongs and the hope of preventing future problems- and even though I don't think any of us are wallowing in a "poor me victim" mentality, it is often a good deal more complicated than "just get over it."

To the 11:14 poster -- what the ???? KB limits -- not forbids, limits -- her kids' involvement with a relative who blows up at them for no reason, and that's somehow a bad thing? I call that doing your job as a parent.

What's she teaching her children? Maybe that she values them enough to protect them no matter what. Maybe that you don't have to take that kind of treatment from anyone, even someone you love. Maybe that big ol' tantrums get precisely what they deserve -- even when thrown by a very powerful authority figure. HE's the grownup; if he can't learn to act like one, her children shouldn't suffer the consequences.

it's a parent's job to teach their children to be contributing members of society, even if that means the parent doesn't win a popularity contest! Children have to be taught to follow the rules and not overindulge. If taught lovingly, children will understand (most of the time).
My favorite tactic is teaching natural consequences. (You made a decision, these are your consequences to deal with.) My children try to blame me (Mommy forgot to remind me to take my homework) but I don't accept it.
My kids see spoiled, entitled teenagers driving mercedes and bmws at the high school. My kids are not impressed, because some of these rich kids are obnoxious brats.

The blame game started waaay back with the first human beings: Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent.

KB wrote "In our family we don't do or say hurtful things; that is our rule; and it's as simple and neutral as that."

Were that it was so simple. Do you really believe this? Wow! We've found perfect human beings!

I'm going to guess that you, your spouse, and your children have all said or done things that have hurt another family member.

Your claims of perfection reduce your credibility. Perhaps if you turned your finely tuned judgement on yourself, you might find your not so perfect.

I grew up with a father that could be verbally abusive too. Snide, belittling, cruel. But he could also be loving, kind, and generous. Guess what, he has flaws and isn't perfect. Neither am I but I try to emulate his better qualities in my relationship with my children. I certainly haven't cut him out of my children's life. Had I done so they would have missed many a wonderful intergenerational experience.

KB is right. There are some toxic people out there. Just because they are relatives does not entitle them to have contact with my children.

You can forgive and love someone without having physical contact with them; you can choose to stay away from their poison.

KB - "how nice for you to be so perfect. What are you teaching your children by limiting their contact with grandparents? What happened to unconditional love? Your kids are learning to love grandpa as long as he isn't "hurtful" to them. God forbid they should learn how to accept that grandpa can be a real asshat, but we love him anyway. "

To anon at 11:14: and here I thought KB had articulated an almost perfect balance of setting limits and otherwise dealing with having one's kids around one's still-verbally abusive parents.

KB is teaching her children that "love" does not equal "there are no limits to how badly you can treat me". KB is teaching her children to respect themselves and to limit relationships with people who say they love you but do not act in a manner consistent with "love." This is a mighty fine lesson to take out into the world and may save her children from much heartache. She hasn't taken the easy way out and cut off all relations with her parents. She has controlled it.

KB is stopping the cycle of verbal abuse before it touches the next generation. That's what folks from dysfunctional families who learn to "get past it" do.

Rule 1 if you get any counseling on how to avoid the blame game is to learn what sorts of behavior are harmful and limit your exposure to persons who engage in that sort of behavior. Person A treats Person B disrespectfully and/or says insulting things about Person B's intelligence? Person B tells Person A that the comment was disrespectful and if it doesn't stop, Person B will exit. Person A is on notice that Person A's behavior is unacceptable and Person A has a choice to cease or continue, but there are clear consequences to continuing. The solution to the blame game is to stop being the victim and start taking charge of the extent to which you expose yourself to crapweasals (I so like this new word) who treat you and your children badly.

I applaud KB's thoughtful, non-judgmental, limit-setting. She couldn't give her children a better lesson.

experienced mom: "My favorite tactic is teaching natural consequences"

Right on! You've read the book on reality-based discipline? One of the worst things parents can do is to shield the child from failure/bad outcomes. They must learn to fail.

Kids are entrusted to us to be raised in the right way and become independent productive citizens. They aren't our projects or trophies, nor to be indulged or coddled. Our work is to prepare them to leave the nest, to face a tough world.

An Dliliodor, I think you're reading way too much into KB's rule. Saying that that is the rule isn't the same as saying they all comply and are perfect all the time - it's simply a statement that it is not ok in their family to be intentionally hurtful. It sounds to me like the basic limit-setting that everyone complains parents don't do anymore: teaching your children that it is not ok for them to be mean or disrespectful to other people. The flip side is that it is also not ok for others to be mean to them. Isn't this pretty much the Golden Rule?

I often hear the term "unconditional love" touted about, as if it were a lofty goal to achieve, but I don't think "unconditional love" is always appropriate. I think parents should love their children unconditionally because they brought them into this world and as such are responsible for their well-being. That may be the only instance where I believe in unconditional love. I don't think anyone needs to unconditionally love someone to the extent that it means tolerating disrespect, neglect, or abuse. I think it is fine to step away from people who dish out this kind of treatment, even if they are your parents, grandparents, siblings, or even adult children. Holding people accountable for their actions and the way they treat you is important. I don't think it is healthy to use the concept of "unconditional love" as a reason to put up with people with toxic behaviors.

KB is setting boundaries for behavior. Is there a fuss because the boundaries are with relatives? Don't you have boundaries for the behavior or strangers? Do relatives get some sort of pass to cross boundaries?

No one, including KB, is claiming they do it perfectly. To attack her as such seems silly.

I really have a problem with people who make choices that impact others and then refuse to take any responsibility for those choices or consequences. It doesn't matter wheter you like it or not, your kids will someday judge the quaility of your parenting.

I had a brief period in my life when I blamed my mother for being a bad parent and for the struggles I had becoming a confident and functioning person. When I got over that I just pretty much wrote her and my (somewhat abusive) father out of my life. Not completely, but as much as I can.

Now she wonders why her sisters' kids are so much more caring and involved with their parents than my brother and I are. Her sisters were deeply involved with their young kids and very loving. My mother was the one who was always telling me how much more important her career was to her than raising her kids. And that was, in essence, her philosophy of motherhood.

Now her career is past and she doesn't have the love of her children. Does she take responsibility for that? No, but what do I care. Could this someday be you?

ps: my son is almost grown and he tells me all the time how much he loves me and what a great mom I've been. I haven't been that great but he knows I love him and he can always turn to me.

Emily, love is by definition unconditional. See 1 Corinthians 13 in the good book.

Loving someone does not mean putting up with the toxic behavior. For example, if I love my child, I will not let him verbally abuse me or disrespect authority. Love comes with training and discipline. It does not mean rolling over and letting someone walk over you.

I get that, Mr. Honda. Yes, I do think it is possible to love someone even if they wronged or continue to wrong you. But I was referring to another poster who clained that KB was not teaching her children to love their grandfather unconditionally, because she would remove them from situations where he became abusive. I think that sometimes, we think that in loving someone, we have to tolerate whatever they dish out. Sometimes, I think that separating ourselves from such people is the only way of dealing with them. And no, I do not find the biblical quote particularly relevant. I have no trouble personally ceasing to love people who are toxic to me or my family. I don't become hateful or vengeful or bitter. I simply remove myself from them so that they become irrelevant.

An Dliodoir, with all due respect, your judgmental statements toward KB indicate that you don't truly appreciate the distinction between "my dad was rude every now and again" and day-in, day-out verbal abuse. If you understood the efforts that go into creating yourself as a whole, functioning, non-blaming person despite being raised in an entirely dysfunctional family, you might have an ounce or two of empathy for how challenging it is to navigate the grandparent/grandchild relationship so that your kids get the good without the power of the bad.

One small example that might open your eyes (or it might not, but c'est la vie), my parents talk relentleslly about how they wish they were dead -- in front of my sister's kids (she lives down the street) -- on every