first!

(i probably have an unfair advantage, but anyway...)

'that's the truth about motherhood'

Leslie, your essay may reveal your truth about your perception of your own life, but your essay in no way reflects the truth about my life and my motherhood experience. I have never regretted having my children, not for a minute.

And how about having the kids fold the laundry? They won't be so quick to undo their own work.

Gosh Leslie - That column doesn't really sound like you. I had to double check to make sure I was reading your words as I can relate to much of what you wrote.

I could care less about Dame Helen Miren. As a rule I try NOT to compare myself and my life to others, particularly celebrities, but it happens. It is human nature to want what you don't have and second guess decisions, particularly the big ones - it is how you handle the wants and doubts that count - not that you have them.

You wrote: "But I also never knew that at times I'd regret having kids almost as passionately as I love having them." This does not make you a bad mother, and please don't let people tell you it does. It just makes you honest.

Regrets, I've had few, but too few to mention - as Sinatra once sang. I think of what our lives would have been like to not have had kids, however I also think about how we should have had another (to total 3) or had them earlier or later in our marriage. It is all water under the bridge now. My mind tends to do the "what if" but I usually have 10 other things that snap me back into reality - like the laundry - or the dog needing a walk (which he does right now), or the kids begging for breakfast (also happening).

I try to always count my blessings during the high stress times, sounds like you have done the same.

Everything on this blog comes down to one thing - choices. Make 'em, own 'em and don't look back.

I loved this essay. My sister does not have kids and I do. She has traveled the world, sleeps in on weekends, and blissfully shops the stores in New York. I have two great kids, have fun family vacations and push a fire truck cart around Giant. My sister is mostly happy and loves her freedom. And spends lots of time with my kids. I am mostly happy and occasionally borrow her Chelsea apartment for a weekend of child free time.

Leslie,

Funny! Seriously, it made me laugh this early a.m.

I really don't care what an actress says either. Their lives are always going to be easier and more liberated than ours whether they have kids or not. Having my daughter almost killed me, but I don't regret having her for one moment. I do regret the fact that she won't sleep in her bed all night and that she won't eat broccoli. Sometimes I wish I could watch a movie without hearing who is that, what is that, and why. However, I think my dad sums it up best when I come home with her and he says you used to do that and it seems like just yesterday. Time passes quickly, too quickly to worry about an actress and her five houses.

On the speeding ticket thing, why can't you just pay it? Are you going to try and fight it? Is it worth driving 300 miles?

Every time someone says being childless enables them to do , it would be nice if they acknowledged in the same breath
that If everyone felt this way, the human race would cease to exist.

And in the absolute GRAND scheme of things that should matter to humans, it is THE most important issue.

of course, that's just a biological perspective.

'early a.m'

huh? early am is 5:15, when my clock goes off. cmac, your kids want breakfast at 7:45? Mine got on the buses at 6:30am.

SLEEP in Fairfax is trying to get later high school and junior high start times.

www.sleepinfairfax.org

whoa... how about that. if you include text enclosed in angle brackets, this blog deletes the whole expression.

So my comment should have read:

Every time someone says being childless enables them to do INSERT_SOMETHING_WONDERFUL_AND_FABULOUS, it would be nice if they acknowledged in the same breath...

Time for me to go wake up the kids for preschool (it was a bad night, so they're sleeping in).

Many new parents ask my wife when they will be able to sleep thru the night. Fredia and I always have a good laugh as we know the answer is once you are a parent, NEVER AGAIN!

Even though our 3 older kids are 27, 23 & 21, we still spend time being a parent to all of them. There is always pain involved with this and pride.

The 23 yr old started a new job on Monday with great benefits and a bonafide career. The 21 yr old is going to the UAE rather than Iraq and the 27 yr old is just getting by. So we feel joy pride and angst this week.

This is our choice and we stand by it but as Leslie says sometimes it is very difficult.

BTW, I am glad you have done your laundry. Our washing machine broke down Monday, I spent the day waiting on the repairman as Fredia had to meet with some clients. So that was our career balance for this week.

"Mirren is right. You can't have freedom and kids."

You also can't have "freedom" and a demanding job, "freedom" and a marriage, "freedom" and student loans/mortgage/car payment, "freedom" ... and basically any responsibility whatsoever. Again, who cares what an actress says? Any good artist is going to be self-centered and narcissistic by nature (sorry, it's true), and that's honestly not the type of person you probably want as your mom anyway (e.g. "Mommy Dearest", anyone remember that book?)

To experienced mom,

'early a.m'... maybe we are not in the same time zone!

free is just another word for nothing left to lose.

free is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Janice Joplin, someone is showing his/her age!

Leslie:

I understand your feelings. I am a very independent 33 year old who is pregnant (very pregnant) with my first child. My husband and I are thrilled but we are already lamenting what we know will be a loss of freedom. For example, we like to travel and do so at every opportunity. That will no longer be the case. At least not as easily as it was since we have no family in the area to ask to babysit while we are gone (like my parents did when I was a child). However, that is the choice we made and we accept it. We are looking forward to being parents.

I have no doubt that there will be days filled with joy and days filled with the regret that you speak of. Others may not feel that way, which is fine. (And, by others, I do not include Helen Mirren or any other privileged celebrity who is not faced with "normal" child rearing complexities.) Feeling that way will not make me a bad parent, no matter what anyone says.

(And, before anyone raises the issue, YES we intend to travel with our child as well. However, there are some activities we enjoy -scubadiving, for example- that are not suitable for young children.)

'maybe we are not in the same time zone'

duh to me, at me, and for me.

time for more coffee!!

Perhaps there is a freedom to it, but I'm with moxiemom here -- the choices we make are our own, and the best thing to do is accept the consequences of those choices, for good or ill.

Glad I got you, First Comment!

StudentMom2Be - Yes, you are totally right. Any kind of serious commitment precludes "freedom." I think the Helen Mirren interview just caught me at exactly the wrong moment -- you know, one of those weird times where you look at how someone else's life looks from the outside and you think for a second, "everything I did was wrong!"

Re: my ticket. It is one of those where you cannot just pay it. Have to go to court. Someone local told me it's kind of a scam to benefit local lawyers who make a business out of one-time court appearances. We will see...at least it is a very pretty drive!

Experience Mom,

No insult intended, just a fact.

Hear, Hear on ignoring the actresses comments. While I am sure Dame Mirren is a nice person, I don't care a whit about what wisdom or not she is spouting. The same goes for actors and politics.

That rant over, it IS hard sometimes to realize that my husband and I can no longer take a week off and wait at the airport for a last-minute fare to a unknown country. But, that is also why we had kids later in our marriage. We got our yayas out (mostly) prior to starting a family. Fewer regrets on unbridled freedom but a smaller family due to age.

JS- I'm in exactly your shoes. I'm overdue with my first, and the other night I realized, "We're having a BABY!" It scares the crap out of me, but I'm so excited. From what I'm told 6 months is the best time to travel, so plan something for the summer! So, you can't SCUBA dive, but that's a small sacrifice. You'll learn to accept flying to the grandparents, dropping the kids off, and flying off to your adventure. They'll just be less frequent adventures, what with double flight costs! It's a different life, but don't forget who you are won't change. Have the babysitting offers started flooding in? USE THEM! Do you have other friends with young babies? They RULE. Have fun and good luck!

Leslie - for someone who laments so frequently about how little time she has to do anything this post sounds to me like you had an awful lot of time to sit around and stew about something fairly trivial. We all have plenty of freedom and plenty of responsibility with or without kids - I don't live a glamorous life and I don't sleep in late not because I don't have the freedom but because that is not my priority.

Leslie,

"...Any kind of serious commitment precludes "freedom." I think the Helen Mirren interview just caught me at exactly the wrong moment -- you know, one of those weird times where you look at how someone else's life looks from the outside and you think for a second, "everything I did was wrong!"

Any parent who is honest with his/her self has these moments.

As for the speeding ticket, I know what you mean. Fredia got one last year and had to show up at court, no paying by mail. She was able to get out of it though.

I am glad that you have your laundry done!

Good morning. I could have written that column. AS Leslie says, no one loves their kids more than (she) or I do, and I wouldn't say I actually regret having them (I don't know if she actually meant she passionately regretted it either). More to the point, there is a certain amount of rage and frustration about the things one must give up in order to raise them properly. For me, that meant giving up work and I totally feel frustrated that I've accomplished few of the things I dreamed of doing before I had children at 28 (more than halfway finished graduate school, but didn't finish it, on the way to a solid career path but never quite got high up enough to guarantee a good salary when I go back). Giving up work was necessary for us as my job was not high paying enough to really make it worthwhile after child care expenses and the fact that my husband has his own business and is rarely home made it especially difficult to work. Just because I still think it is the best option available to me after considering all angles, I am only human and can't help but mourn the loss of some of the other things I wanted to do, but can't because of the kids. I'm an actress also, but clearly no Helen Mirren, because I am not going to leave the house at 6:00 every night and hire a babysitter to go to rehearsals and have someone else put these developing, delicate children who don't see their father at night to bed. That is just not best for them. I don't want to be a martyr but you do give up many things when you must put your child's well being above anything you will consider for yourself, and yes it's a choice - blah blah blah - but it doesn't mean it is not without pain.

No, experienced mom, it is not a time zone issue. I have a kindergartner that goes to school at 11:15 - he wanted breakfast. My 3rd grader has a bad head cold that she is just getting over and I am taking her to school late after her decongestant kicks in (thank you Ziacam for shorting this cold!).

My day usually starts at 6:10, we are operating under a delayed schedule today. We have the opposite schedule here in Loudoun which makes more sense. Elementary starts at 7:50 (bus at 7:30) middle school starts at 8:20 (bus at 7:55) High School starts at 8:50 (bus at 8:25). It is easier to get an elementary kid out of bed at 6:30 then a Highschooler.

'No insult intended'
I know, I'm just laughing at myself.

Thanks Fred, I was thinking parenting was for life. I feel sad for the people that get turned out at age 18. So you get to sleep all night some nights, right? And at least your kids don't need babysitters anymore. I hope your joys outweigh your sorrows!

Fred: But at least you have plenty of ice while you wait for the washer repairman.

The Road Not Taken

"TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

"Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

"And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

"I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- Robert Frost, 1920

Leslie, you took your road, and Dame Helen
took hers. You have made the world a
better place by taking your road and doing
your duty as you have seen it, and so has
Dame Helen.

If life is about trying to balance
Justice, Truth and Freedom (Captain Video),
Truth, Justice and the American Way (Superman),
and Ivy (Harvard, Penn), then it is
to be expected that any one of these
ideals (say, Freedom) is not going to
be attained 100%. Dame Helen may have
more Freedom, but Leslie, you have lived
the American Way.

cmac-I also checked to see who was writing the blog entry this morning. I didn't believe it was Leslie either!

experienced mom-chapel hill, nc starts elementary first, then middle, then high. It works well. Research shows later start time helps older kids learn more with this schedule since they're awake. Natural bioclock shifts later as they get older.
It certainly seems true for us and those around us.

moxiemom-well I don't like to rethink choices ad nauseum. Sometimes it is good to remake choices. All choices don't last forever.

Leslie-I also stew about things in the background.

I really identify with your sentiments in this essay as well.

It's all well and good to say "I'll still be the same person and I can still have adventures, etc. etc. etc." but honestly, no one ever told me that it would be possible to go something like twelve weeks of my life with every chunk of time in my schedule allocated to either work, family-related activities or sleep/housekeeping -- including weekends; without enough time to even do some little spontaneous thing like go to a movie.

I don't think I fully understood that even when they're weaned and no longer attached to you, there's still such a long way to go until they're independent, so many many years until you will have big chunks of time again to work on your own projects.

I definitely understand that sense of regret -- because nothing really prepared me for how even once I have big chunks of time again (like when I'm an empty nester), I still won't be the same person I once was. Something about that mountain of laundry there -- it really hit home!

I'm thinking 'freedom' isn't the word Mirren should have used. I believe she's trying convey the notion of no responsibilities. I guess I'm going back to freshman civics here, but with freedom comes tons of responsibilities. Mirren couldn't have done what she did if she had tons of responsibilities to others (e.g., kids, elderly parents, farm/family business to manage, and the like). The only responsibility she seems to have is towards her art, which is fine for her.

Leslie - you put into words what many of us think. But, in this case, while it may always be a juggling act to balance your life and your kids, it might be a little easier if you get them a little more under control. You certainly should never have to yell at them 10 times to stop jumping, they needed a time-out...

Somewhere Kris Kristofferson weeps ...

To quote Janice Joplin "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose".

At times I do think of where my life would be now if I was not a parent, and I do miss out on the freedom of getting on a plane and just going anywhere (safe or not) at the drop of the hat. Or even living overseas, which is something I have worked for my whole career to be able to do. Often this moments coincide with a bad morning/or a fussy stage. Then I think of the downside of the life that I am "missing out on", and remember how much I love my child... I am happy and cannot imagine life without her. Life is a game of balance, and choices. I have made mine, and they came with an opportunity cost.

Interesting blog. My husband and I are struggling with the choice of having kids or not. We are leaning towards having them b/c in our minds, we thought that we might regret not having them. I see that's not always the case, and it's a scary thought! This blog has brought more indecision to an already terribly indecisive situation.

to Alexandria mom - "I'm an actress also, but clearly no Helen Mirren, because I am not going to leave the house at 6:00 every night and hire a babysitter to go to rehearsals..."

Helen Mirren didn't do that either, since she didn't have children. Maybe the reason she didn't have children because she realized that she couldn't be that kind of mother and also be an actress.

As far as caring what celebrities say, I feel that Leslie is using the comments as a discussion point, not that she or anyone else cares what they have to say. Why should we care about what is said by anonymous bloggers?

Off topic - has anyone read the frontpage article about minimum wage? This shows another side of how Americans live. It is not always so easy to go to college and better yourself. The young man who is profiled in the story partially supports his family. Even if he were to get student loans, grants, scholarships and a part-time job, how could he continue to provide the support he is providing now?

My husband and I considered the might regret not having when we were debating, and for us, it would have been absolutely true. If we had not had our child, we would have missed out on so much laughter, fun and love. You don't know what you are missing until you have it. Don't be naive about the amount of work and changes you will have to make, but for us it was 100% worth it.

As a single person without children I have alot of responsibilities - to my parents, my job, my friends. I have a mortgage to pay and home repairs to make. True that we all make choices but sometimes they are made for us by not giving us the opportunity to be a parent. It doesn't make us less of a person or a bad person.

While I can't relate to Leslie's feeling the occassional regret about having kids, I know she is not alone. I have had several women, about 30% of my friends, admit if they had to do it all over again, they would not have chosen to have kids. Some admitted they had their kids for the wrong reasons:save a bad marriage, stupidity, no BC, fear of regret etc... But some just admitted that even though they bring great joy, they also are an equal burden. Now I have actually met a larger amount of men who have regretted then women. I am not sure what that says. But in my circle of friends, I have found only about 20% of women are estatic about having kids. DD is only 3 years old and not a moment of the last three years have I regretted her birth. I think I spent the first 18 months of her life in complete Mommy heaven. I have come down to earth and now realize my DD is not the complete angel I thought she was. But I definitely am still in love with being a mother. But I am not sure that I will always feel that way. And I don't think Leslie is a bad parent in any way for saying she has some regrets. I think she does own up to her choices. She has not abandoned her children in anyway. As long as your children never know, when they are children, that you sometimes had regrets, they will be fine. I actually think it is valuable discussion when they are adults to let them know it is human to regret decisions. Even the decision to have them.

Arlington, it can be a tough decision, but I'd say don't have them if you don't REALLY want them. It is indeed the most wonderful thing, but it is also the most difficult and demanding thing I've ever done. On top of the operational aspects there is an emotional part too. I have never loved someone in my life as much as I love my kids and that is a blessing and a curse because there is an inevitable worry for their welfare that I don't think you ever, ever lose (Fred, I'm sure you can speak to this). Someone once said that to have children is to have your heart walking around outside of your body. I think that's a pretty apt description. That said, I think few people are ever 100% sure of it. The fact that you are being thoughtful about it says to me that you would be terrific parents if you chose that route. Good luck.

This was a brutally honest column that should be read by anyone contemplating parenthood. Being a parent means inviting strangers into your home to live for several decades. It is hard work. Sometimes I think parenthood is most enjoyable in the afterglow of memory. And the personality, intelligence, health, and success of your children is in no way assured - even if the parents do all the "right things." Children do not "enhance" your life, they become your life. Yes, there are moments of transcendental joy, but there are also many moments of deep despair. Anyone who expects otherwise should just get a dog.

To Stupid Parser, a childless person could, I guess, acknowledge that it's a good thing that people want children so that the human race can continue, but it seems like a waste of breath to me. In fact, most people want to have children. We don't need to offer incentives to have kids because people want them. We will not get to the point where no one wants kids.

Do you want them to say this to acknowledge that they're not doing their part to further the goal of society (self-perpetuation)? Or do you want to hear it as some sort of apology, like "I have a great life, but I recognize that I didn't do what's best for humankind, so I'm selfish."

It's like Matt in Aberdeen wrote: Leslie chose hers, Helen chose heres. Neither path is better (for the record, the path Leslie chose is by far the most travelled). So why shouldn't childless people be allowed to love their decision? No one asks people with children why they're so happy.

Maybe this comment caught me on an off moment akin to folding the eighth load of laundry. If it's snarky, please ignore.

Experienced Mom,

We still have one at home and he was sick last night! Somedays, the joy outweights the sorrows, other days it is the reverse.

I never realized how much parents worry about their children until I became a parent. When I was in Viet Nam, I had no idea that my parents were even worried! Now that my daughter is in the Air Force, I have been concerned about her going to war and was relieved to find out that she is going elsewhere next month.

KLB SS MD,

I turned off the ice maker because I was painting the laundry room and had to move the i.m. So there are only a few cubes this a.m.

There can be an intense sadness in those of us who have not had children when all around us friends and family are having them. We deal and move on - sometimes we get a dog but not because we don't want the joys and despairs of children but because we can't have it. I guess I would just hope that people with kids don't look at us all as being selfish because I don't think I am at all.

"Being a parent means inviting strangers into your home to live for several decades"

This statement makes no sense.

This isn't unique to moms, or even parents. "You can't have your cake and eat it too."

Part of growing up is learning to make real, conscious choices, rather than just drifting through life. I chose to take a job right out of college, rather than go to grad school (I actually go the job offer and an acceptance letter to Vanderbilt's grad program on the same day) - because I wanted to get married, and didn't want to starve. The job wasn't as fun as grad school - but on balance, it provide a better life for us.

I took a 2 hour commute so my kids could have a house with a big yard to play in, complete with trees and squirrels.

I don't regret those decisions - because I know why I made them.

Having children means we give up things. Really think about it, and know why you're deciding to start a family. Then, you may get angry, you may get frustrated - and you will get tired - but you won't regret it.

While serious commitments do preclude absolute freedom, you can change or drop most other commitments! You can quit a high-pressure job or take a vacation, for instance. You can't quit being a parent. That's a 24/7 commitment that precludes freedom.

As for the biological perspective.... Since there are enough people having kids to continue our already populous species, I'll take my freedom over kids. When we hit the endangered species list, we'll talk.

Being childless enables you to die alone, to not leave your mark on the world (who is going to watch these movies I have never heard of now 100 years from now). It enables you to miss the full realm of emotions you feel as a parent....pure joy, elation, pride, it enables you to never know what it means to act completely selflessly and live as selfishly as you desire.
Some people are way to selfish and narcissistic to reproduce and it is great that they can realize this. It is not for me though. I am looking forward to many children in my future. I am gaining so much more than what I am losing and I can't wait.

And btw, you don't need a lawyer for a traffic ticket. I have been to traffic court 5 times without a lawyer and all my tickets were reduced to non-moving violations (I think all ended up as parking on the sidewalk) $100-$200 fine. Much cheaper than getting a lawyer AND paying a fine.

She's an ACTRESS. There is plenty of time to be "free" (whatever that means) and it's called the empty nest years! Also, have your children join in on the freedom. Travel with them, enjoy the theatre with them. THey will thank you for it. Are kids stopping other actresses? Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt seem to be doing just fine with their freedom with 3 kids. Actresses/actors live in a different world-I would never compare my life to theirs.

I'm honestly not sure what to say! I appreciate your honesty, though I have never regretted having my daughter. If I had more than one, I may have those feelings, though. Having an only, it seems more feasible to either have freedom or include my daughter in a lot of things that those with multiple kids can't.

Right on single mom!!! : To quote Janice Joplin "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose".

I fall squarely in the camp of "what's the point to life if there's no one to share it with?"

Anyone who doesn't wonder periodically about their life choices and wonder "what if..." lacks imagination.

And any parent who doesn't acknowledge at least ONCE in a while that parenting puts a real crimp on your life is a bottle short of a six-pack.

I feel twinges periodically too.

As for the person who wrote in and said Leslie had "too much time" to stew overlooks the fact that folding laundry is hardly intellectually taxing. My mind wanders too; usually wondering where the hell the other sock is lurking. And why do I care anyway?

"you don't need a lawyer for a traffic ticket"

Who takes a lawyer to traffic court for a ticket? Are we really that dependent on lawyers in D.C.?

Does that strike anyone else as bizarre?

Arlington,

My husband and I also struggled with the decision whether or not to have children. I imagined myself looking back in 30 years or so when there was no more decision to be made. Which would I be likely to regret? Having children, or not having them?

We have an 18 mo daughter now, and I do not regret the decision at all. Don't get me wrong, there are brief twinges of regret; my husband and I can't do a lot of things that we used to do because of our responsibility to her, but she has brought so much joy and love to our lives that those moments are fleeting.

Take your time and make the choice that is right for you. We'll all be here if you want more input.

"Being childless enables you to die alone, to not leave your mark on the world (who is going to watch these movies I have never heard of now 100 years from now)."

Some people view their art or their other works (fighting for a cause they believe in, helping make others' lives easier, for two examples) count as a mark. They don't always have to be people (although they would count too). Some people leave both, but others are perfectly content to have their art or the other effects of their labors stand as their legacy.

KLB SS MD - I'm so sorry if you feel judged. When I meet people who don't have children I know that its none of my business as to why. There are myriad reasons why someone might not have a child. Frankly I think that actively choosing not to have kids is pretty unselfish and difficult thing to do in today's society. Believe you me, there are scads of parents out there who had kids because they thought they should or as some extension of their ego.

Whatever your situation, I am sorry for your sadness and I appreciate you raising a good point here that isn't often considered.

Anyone who doesn't wonder periodically about their life choices and wonder "what if..." lacks imagination.

And any parent who doesn't acknowledge at least ONCE in a while that parenting puts a real crimp on your life is a bottle short of a six-pack.

I feel twinges periodically too.

As for the person who wrote in and said Leslie had "too much time" to stew, overlooks the fact that folding laundry is hardly intellectually taxing. My mind wanders too; usually wondering where the hell the other sock is lurking. And why do I care anyway?

Freedom - On the other hand, choosing to have children offers you the freedom to love, to watch a human develop; it offers you the freedom to have wonderful trips and adventures that you would never have only with adults. Children offer you the freedom to think about what travel, plays, operas, concerts are really important to you so that you can select and anticipate those special events. Having children offers you the freedom to see the world through the eyes of a child.

There is alot of freedom in having children.

Thanks moxiemom. I don't feel as tho I my life is worthless because I don't have a child. I am the named guardian of for two of my friend's children in case something happens to them so I must have done something right. When one kid pulled out an album a couple of months ago and was showing me his pics (birthdays, holidays, even some vacations) there I was on almost every page. I would take them for a weekend once a month so the parents could do something by themselves - we would have a ball. Maybe I have the best of both worlds?

"Some people view their art or their other works (fighting for a cause they believe in, helping make others' lives easier, for two examples) count as a mark. "

Yes, they do. And a few remarkable individuals make contributions to society that make a difference for centuries.

Most of us, though, lead civic and occupational lives that will be forgotten in a very short time. The adage "no one is irreplacable" is almost frighteningly true. Our causes and contributions seem terribly important to us (and we should take them seriously), but for most, family will be by far the most signifacant legacy we can leave.

Well, no, one can't have kids and complete freedom. When I announced my impending first adoption, many many people told me "It will change your life." Well, duh, that was the point. On the other hand, my sister doesn't have kids and probably never will. That is a good thing for her, but wouldn't have been okay for me. To each her own.

To KLB SS MD

No one's life is worthless. Kids are a blessing - but they aren't the only blessing in life. And, as you point out, you don't have to be a biological parent to enjoy them, and help them along the way.

Children are important to me. I do not, however, ever want to say anything that denegrates or hurts someone who is unable (for whatever reason) to have children.

Mom2b - don't know if you intended your post to be as mean and condescending as it sounds.

Being childless enables you to die alone, to not leave your mark on the world (who is going to watch these movies I have never heard of now 100 years from now). It enables you to miss the full realm of emotions you feel as a parent....pure joy, elation, pride, it enables you to never know what it means to act completely selflessly and live as selfishly as you desire.
Some people are way to selfish and narcissistic to reproduce and it is great that they can realize this.

Having children does NOT guarantee that you will not die alone. Children die, children choose not to care for their parents (see earlier blog about elder care). The thing with kids is there in NO guarantee. No guarantee they will be healthy, no guarantee they wil be decent people, no guarantee they won't die. So they are not an insurance policy.

Secondly, you sure seem to know a lot about having children when you haven't had one yet. Your view is awfully, awfully rosy. It 'aint all sunshine and butterfly kisses, sometimes it a lot of crying (the baby and you) and a lot of poop and biting. I also don't think that having children is some noble act full of selflessness - people have children because they get something out of it too. There is a lot of sacrifice, but there are a lot of rewards too. Finally, I think that one can be noble and selfless and change the world or at least their little corner of it without having children. In fact one could argue that with the "freedom" of not having children one can impact the world in a greater fashion - Oprah and Mother Teresa come to mind.

Most people's legacies are their children. This actress that Leslie was speaking of, I have never heard of, but I'm not one for TV, movies, celebrity worship....and I doubt many people will be watching these movies in 50 years (or even 20).

Imagining what life would be like without children, is totally normal and I would think most people do it, but actually regretting having your children, I just don't get. I think there are enough people with kids to look to, blogs, books, information all over the place where the responsibility of a child shouldn't come as a surprise.
I have a friend from work that is constantly talking about how she just isn't maternal and regrets having her children. I actually believe she shouldn't have. She is constantly guilt ridden when not around her kids and when she is with them constantly anxious and wanting to be anywhere that her children aren't. She is one of many women who had kids because that was what was next....college, marriage, kids.....It is good to hear about people that chose a different path so women who truly don't want and shouldn't have kids have another model of what life can be.

Am I the only person who has never even once cared about leaving my mark upon the world?

I had children because I wanted to have a family, not to leave a part of myself. And my job is what I do to provide for myself and my family.

For the parents of young children here, remember that your feelings about parenthood and your children can change over time. My teenagers leave me wondering on a regular basis why I ever had kids :)

As far as traveling when the nest is empty and bringing the grown children along - that may not work. My mother and I had completely different ideas regarding travel and other interests. I wanted to spend my vacations with my friends and later my husband, not with my mother.

Leslie, my children don't always listen to me either. I find that people with children who are well behaved don't consider that some children are more strong-willed and defiant than others, and that multiple children are more difficult to manage than only children.

"Being childless enables you to die alone, to not leave your mark on the world (who is going to watch these movies I have never heard of now 100 years from now). It enables you to miss the full realm of emotions you feel as a parent....pure joy, elation, pride, it enables you to never know what it means to act completely selflessly"

Yeah, that childless Mother Theresa was damn selfish. And yeah, I find it totally unlikely that childless Anna Pavlova ever knew true joy.

"Having children does NOT guarantee that you will not die alone."

No, but it sure improves the odds.

"It 'aint all sunshine and butterfly kisses"

No, but the rewards are there (and really, how many of us do truly scut work on the job and get nothing but an ever-shrinking paycheck?)

"In fact one could argue that with the "freedom" of not having children one can impact the world in a greater fashion - Oprah and Mother Teresa come to mind."

Of course one could - but really, how many of us are Oprah or Mother Teresa material?

Everyone talks about having kids for the future. I thoroughly enjoy my daughter for the here and now. It is not to have her take care of me in my old age, to leave my mark, or even to give me grandkids (although I hope at least one of my girls does have children). My advice is have them if you want them for a lifetime. If not, skip it. It is OK not to have kids.

"Am I the only person who has never even once cared about leaving my mark upon the world?"

Apparantly. This whole mortality thing seems to be a big issue for many of us here.

to KLB SS MD - that's awesome to hear about the kids in your life and you have done something right if you were chosen as guardian. Also, I think that your relationship with those kids is special and in some ways more powerful because you actively chose them and chose to be in their lives when you didn't have to. They are lucky to have you. I always wanted a cool "aunt" to be a buffer with my parents and take me on nifty trips. Don't let these others get you down.

My godfather has no children, he is a professor, he has touched the lives of thousands, and he has certainly enriched my life and the lives of my children and family.

I have a colleague who died recently, he had no children, yet there were hundreds of people at his funeral and a fair portion of them had to fly in from overseas to attend. I think we can say that his life mattered and affected people irrrespective of his breeding status. Hell, my kids cried for him, they knew and liked him.

Saying that childless people have no influence and leave no "mark" upon the world is stupid.

"Most people's legacies are their children. This actress that Leslie was speaking of, I have never heard of, but I'm not one for TV, movies, celebrity worship....and I doubt many people will be watching these movies in 50 years (or even 20)."

You know, most people will never hear of your kids, either. Whether or not anyone's heard or something or someone isn't necessarily the best way to judge its value.

And knowing who Helen Mirren is has a lot more to do with having a working knowledge of the arts, and a lot less to do with 'celebrity worship.' Angelina Jolie she ain't.

"My teenagers leave me wondering on a regular basis why I ever had kids :)"

They can be a challenge. I find myself looking forward to grandkids.

To MEESH, who said "We don't need to offer incentives to have kids because people want them. We will not get to the point where no one wants kids."

Take a look at Europe and some Asian countries -- they ARE at that point and now have to offer incentives for people to have children to avoid continuing their negative population growth.

It's not happening here, but saying it's impossible is naive.

Most people are not Mother Theresa (or even an Oprah type) and don't have any significant legacy to leave. Although leaving a legacy certainly isn't the only reason to have children. I also doubt leaving a legacy is something you think about when raising small children...it is something that I plan on thinking about towards the end of my life.
I am looking forward to the sunshine and butterfly kisses more than I worry about crying, poop, and biting.

Most people are not Mother Theresa (or even an Oprah type) and don't have any significant legacy to leave. Although leaving a legacy certainly isn't the only reason to have children. I also doubt leaving a legacy is something you think about when raising small children...it is something that I plan on thinking about towards the end of my life.
I am looking forward to the sunshine and butterfly kisses more than I worry about crying, poop, and biting.

Most people are not Mother Theresa (or even an Oprah type) and don't have any significant legacy to leave. Although leaving a legacy certainly isn't the only reason to have children. I also doubt leaving a legacy is something you think about when raising small children...it is something that I plan on thinking about towards the end of my life.
I am looking forward to the sunshine and butterfly kisses more than I worry about crying, poop, and biting.

Wow, are the snarky folks just not up yet? I loved the post and even tho I don't have kids, there are times that I regret or think, "what if I had done X instead". I think Leslie is being honest and I'm surprised that no one has completely attacked her yet for this. Oh well, I guess that will be coming.

The hard part is when you are no longer the "cool aunt". Not, of course, because I am no longer cool because I am but because their view of cool has changed. When they were 8 and 10 it was fun to go to play putt putt all day but now that they are mid-teens they sure as heck don't want to be seen with me doing that! Parents probably have the same problem.

"You know, most people will never hear of your kids, either. Whether or not anyone's heard or something or someone isn't necessarily the best way to judge its value."

No, but they - or their kids - will be here long after I'm gone. How my wife and I raise them will still have an impact. The audit report I should be working on this morning won't.

And honestly - are you doing something at work this morning that's genuinely going to make a difference 50 years from now (and are you the only one who can or will do it)?

Mom2b - you are the mom who ends up crying at playgroup because its not at all what you thought it would be. It seems to me that having children isn't selfless for you at all, it seems to be all about what you are getting out of it. Nothing wrong with that, just not selfless. p.s. there is significantly more poop than butterfly kisses.

Just a suggestion, Leslie: Why don't the kids do their own laundry? I was doing mine as soon as I could reach the dials. People become overly indulgent of their children and their kids never grow up with a sense of responsibility or even with the knowledge of how to do basic things (laundry, cooking, etc.). So, do them and yourself a favor and have them do their own laundry.

KLB SS MD,

You mean you have never heard that a teenager wants to be dropped off 2 blocks from school so she will not be seen with her mother and that embarrasing mommy van?

"It's not happening here, but saying it's impossible is naive."

Good point. We should probably ask ourselves why we don't have that problem yet, and what we can do to avoid it.

How odd, I just got the following email from my 76 year old dad who also likes to call and warn me of impending weather in my area.

"On this cool January morning, I am thinking of my children and how
proud I am of both of you. I can't imagine my life with out you.
Love, DAD"

Whew, glad to know he still feels that way after the wringer we put him through. haha

"When they were 8 and 10 it was fun to go to play putt putt all day but now that they are mid-teens they sure as heck don't want to be seen with me doing that! Parents probably have the same problem."

Trust me - an aunt or uncle can never reach the same depths of "uncoolness" as a parent.

Just for kicks, you should get with their parents and run a simple experiment. Find something they'd really like to do. Then set it up so they can go with you, or with their parents. Do this a few times, then count how often they choose you. I guarantee it will make you feel better.

;-)

"Most people's legacies are their children. This actress that Leslie was speaking of, I have never heard of, but I'm not one for TV, movies, celebrity worship....and I doubt many people will be watching these movies in 50 years (or even 20)."

You might want to check out Mirren's work before commenting on it. She is a profound artist that most "child legacies" won't be.

Fred, Of course I have heard of that - I was one of those kids.
I didn't write here as a sympathy ploy rather to make people think before they make a general statement that all childless people are selfish, blah blah blah.

Older dad - I will give that a shot. Do I have to let the parents in on the experiment?

Giving up freedom is choice number one in having kids. For me the trade-off has been that I've eventually reached a very contented life.

It occurred to me recently that it was time that I could take back some freedom. My son is old enough to be responsible for my youngest. She's such a difficult child that I haven't found anyone I really trust to care for her. In recent years we've had her direct her amazing energy in sports and that's become our recreation and those parents our friends and company.

This year I've planned two getaways with my husband and I'm looking into tickets for plays and concerts. Depending on how many kids you have, the loss of freedom isn't a lifetime curse.

a couple anecdotes in response to mom2b's scare tactics:

my uncle never had children. he had a sibling and nieces who loved him, and a wonderful girlfriend and friends. we were all with him when he died.

my aunt never had children. she has many siblings and nieces/nephews and friends all over the country. we, her family, all spend time and holidays together and any of us would be there for her whenever she needs it. she absolutely will not die alone.

i love my cool aunts. they are always fun, and they were amazing when i was that age where parents are waaayyy uncool, and we are still close now that i'm all grown up.

i can't wait to be a cool aunt to my nieces and nephews, and i have no intention of dying alone, kids or not.

soccermom - duck, 'cuz its coming your way.

I'm with Ryan. At 6, I started doing my own laundry. It was the only chore that my parents made me do throughout my childhood. I wish I had been asked to do more, since I had a very rude awakening in adulthood. To this day, laundry is the only chore I enjoy doing.

Well, I picked up my son (15 yr old) from school yesterday in the "creepy" van. He always makes a point of "creepy" the van is. He does not seem to mind when I pick him up in the Infiniti. :)

I'm with Ryan. At 6, I started doing my own laundry. It was the only chore that my parents made me do throughout my childhood. I wish I had been asked to do more, since I had a very rude awakening in adulthood. To this day, laundry is the only chore I enjoy doing.

Has anybody seen that show on the discovery channel about the couple who had 4 young children, then the mother got pregnant with quintuplets? To top it off, the father lost his job when the quints were about 6 months old - only saw the one episode, but talk about a balancing act - 9 kids, none over the age of 6 or 7!!!

Moxiemom, Thanks for your comment..feeling a little sick and blue today and mom2b's comment certainly didn't help.
I know I have made a difference in the lives of my nieces and nephews (they have thanked me for being there), so I know I shouldn't listen to such comments. *sigh(

So moxiemom since there is more poop than butterfly kisses, do you regret having kids more than you are content with the life you have yourself?

The grass is always greener. Especially when folding laundry! ;)

Helen's comments are inspiring to me, even though I love being a mother, because it proves that it can be done. Seriously, I think the world still needs examples of women who don't choose the Mommy-track...and are happy about it.

On the other hand, I think she overestimates the impact of not having kids and understates the importance of her own talent. I mean- how many people are going to become world class actors- whether they have children or not? Looking at my own life, I think I would still be a paper-shuffling bureaucrat, even if I didn't have any kids. It is a nice fantasy that we could all be as "free" as her, if we had made different choices- but I don't think that is true for most women.

I'm not convinced that it is important to "leave a legacy". We aren't Egyptian Pharohs who need to build monuments to secure our immortality!

Great post, Leslie - seems we are all appreciating the "truth hurts" angle this morning. I have a bit of a different perspective on this - as much as it's equated w/ parenthood, I've never had "freedom" - but the flip side is that I'm presented with the opportunity of being "free" at the still very young age of 35 when my son graduates - IF i choose not to have more kids ... and then I could even conceivably do it all over again... I know there are posters here who have older children and then chose to have more children either with a different partner or because they realized they wanted more - I would be very curious to hear how the freedom aspect played into decisions to have additional children after already being a parent for so long.

This is the best column I have ever read by LSM. I thought it was a guest blogger.

Alexandria, if you are not sooooo wanting to have kids that you would do in vitro, adopt, be a single parent, then just don't do it. It is forever. And not always good--and my kids are practically perfect! I have had moments tinged with "what if"--what if I had waited longer, taken that full time job when the first was a baby, etc. I have had moments when I wished I was single and childless--but what I really wanted was to feel the way I felt before I got married and had kids, before I really became a responsible adult. When I was single, I could sleep in, stay up late, spend my paycheck on whatever I wanted, go to the bathroom alone. I truly believe that you must follow your heart in this choice. If your heart isn't saying anything, then that is a message in itself. There are so many bad parents out there (well, I think this because I just went on a field trip with my kid's 7th grade. If the kids are any reflection of the parents, then the parents ought to be in jail! I need a day to get over it). Not saying you would be one of them, but there are lots of ways to be an influence on a child without having one.

And for all of those tired parents with little ones, keep the faith. You will sleep again! It is a RARE night I get woken by a child---more common for my husband to wake me up with his snores! They grow up.

Great post, Leslie - seems we are all appreciating the "truth hurts" angle this morning. I have a bit of a different perspective on this - as much as it's equated w/ parenthood, I've never had "freedom" - but the flip side is that I'm presented with the opportunity of being "free" at the still very young age of 35 when my son graduates - IF i choose not to have more kids ... and then I could even conceivably do it all over again... I know there are posters here who have older children and then chose to have more children either with a different partner or because they realized they wanted more - I would be very curious to hear how the freedom aspect played into decisions to have additional children after already being a parent for so long.

Mom2b - I love my kids, I love my life. I wouldn't change a thing. Because I don't love every single second of it doesn't mean I would change it.

mom2b - I do not think that your comment to moxiemom is very fair. I think that all parents would agree that at times we put may more into parenting than we get back (directly). We do it for the love of our children, and at times if that does not sustain us - the pure needs of keeping the child alive/healthy. I think that for every 10 poopy diapers, 20 spit ups, and 5 temper tanrums there is one kiss and smile that melts your heart. That one moment of pure love makes up for all of the above. And that is the remider we get for why we are going this crazy thing called parenting.

One can be content with the life that you have chosen, yet also think about the life that we have not chosen from time to time. the grass is always greener on the other side - or at least sometimes

Missicat - don't let them get you down. I don't anymore. Once you make peace with either your decision or circumstances you just enjoy your life. PS - I love my dog.

I gave my mom a sign that said "Grandchildren are the reward you get for not strangling your teenagers" during a time when my teenaged sister was being particularly difficult.

I saw that interview and to be honest, I tuned it out the moment Dame Mirren made that "profound" statement on motherhood. My thought was, what does she know? My second thought was, a lot of celebs have kids for the wrong reasons, maybe she realized she didn't want to go down that path. Hello Brittany?

Here is my solution. You can "have it all" just not all at once. For now, my focus is and needs to be on the welfare of my children. If that means I can't just jet off to India for two weeks, then I don't go to India. But, someday my children will be grown and living independent lives. Then I will have the "freedom" I did before children.

I love being a mom and I love my daughter more than anything, but I totally relate to this post and others who acknowledge these feelings. Sometimes the changes in my life since I became a mom are so striking (like the previous poster who mentioned 12 weeks without anything spontaneous!) that I find myself thinking "I can't wait until she's old enough to [fill in activity I want to do] with me." I have to constantly remind myself not to wish these precious times away. Working motherhood sometimes gets in the way of being free to just "be" with your child, too... always worrying about the next task, load of laundry, etc. That's my biggest struggle

"Older dad - I will give that a shot. Do I have to let the parents in on the experiment?"

No, of course not. The only advantage would be if you wanted to set it up as a real scientific experiement, where they were offered the exact same outing, but with different people.

Honestly, I don't think it's going to be that hard to figure out what they prefer. My kids (14 & 18) would - in a heartbeat - pick an outing with my sister or my parents over one with my wife and I.

Anyway can freedom and kids co-exist? I believe it can. You give up things, but get back just as much if not more. You give up things like foreign travel on a whim...and replace it with a weekend jaunt to the shore watching your kids discover the waves. You give up romantic dinners out for taco's and a giant mess on the floor but kids reactions and conversations can be priceless.
How do you balance the things you have to give up with what you gain as a parent? Obviously many people find it worth it or so many people wouldn't be having kids.
Also interesting, the birthrate in Western Europe (where it is supposedly easier to enter and exit workforce, where there is subsidized childcare, where there is more vacation time) the birth rate is much smaller. Why is it where is seems like balance is much easier to achieve, do people have fewer children?

"seems we are all appreciating the "truth hurts" angle this morning."

Only if you have unrealistic expectations. If you approach things understanding that anything of real value in life takes hard work and sacrifice, then this is all a "well, yeah - you gotta go to the store if you expect to find food in the fridge" discussion.

This is something I struggle with as I am going to try to have a child soon. On one hand, because I didn't marry till 35 and have had a very full, independent life (travel, adventures, successful career, I won't have the "I never got to..." regret (and I don't mind walking away from my career; I was ready to anyway). Then again, because I've done all those things, I'm used to a life in which I get to. And my husband fears the freedom factor even more.

Though: He said "We won't get to hop out to the movies and dinner whenever we want," and I pointed out, we don't really anyway -- especially since we got TiVo.

Leslie, you are so right!
I didn't see your posting as a complaint, or a tirade against the injustice of having children. Rather, it's a very honest assessment of the fact that you realize you would have achieved different things in your life if you had chosen not to have them.
I am a mother of two, and I muse sometimes about where all that energy would have gone without them, even though I look at them every day and see where all the energy is going, and I am very proud.
I should have some time left after they go off on their own to put that energy to a different use!
To anyone else who is thinking about this question, I suggest reading Get to Work, Linda Hirshman's controversial manifesto. It's very thought-provoking!

Thanks KLB, just feeling blah today.
Remember mom2b - some of us selfish childless folks may be the very ones who will help you when you get overwhelmed! :-)

Love my kitties, too.

well said single mom. My dh and I joke that kid joy is like crack - its addictive and therefore makes us wipe bottoms, mitigate arguments, endlessly clean etc... just for that "hit" of kid joy (kisses, hugs, "you're the best mommy" etc..

Mom2be: I think in Europe they have fewer kids, even though they have subsidized child care, over all they find it still harder financially to raise children. Things like land purchase and gas are still way more expensive then in the US. Geographically, we are just larger and we have relatively low gas prices compared to most of the world. Taxes are low too compared to some countries.

Wow...this blog has been really insightful. After a lifetime of "I never want kids!" about a year ago I met a man who changed my mind. I'm scared to death of having them, even though I know we won't have them for at least another five or six years. This blog has confirmed my fears, but the good news is at least I'm being prepared well in advance, so I won't be surprised when the time comes. That said, no one should ever be chastised for their choices regarding parenthood, as long as their choices aren't hurting anyone. We may criticize the welfare mom who can't name her children's fathers, but there is nothing wrong with a person who recognizes that he or she would not be a good parent (for whatever reason) and chooses not to become one.

"I guess I would just hope that people with kids don't look at us all as being selfish because I don't think I am at all."

Some parents are more selfish than child-free people, as has been pointed out before, because they want a little clone of themselves. I can't tell you how many times I was asked "Don't you want to have kids of your own? Don't you want a little Laura running around?" My answer was that if that were the only reason for me to become a parent, it was a pretty bad reason. I know some people on here think I'm conceited, and maybe I am, but I'm hopefully not THAT in love with myself.

Today's blog and every poster has really helped me reach into my own brain and realistically examine the reasons I've changed my mind and decided I want children. I'm still scared, but I still want them in the future, and I feel a little more prepared every time I read this blog, and I thank you guys for that.

Yes moxiemom and single mom, I did mention people obviously imagine what life would be like without their kids...what I said I didn't understand was the regret part of it. It is one thing to say, I regret never having finished grad school but quite another thing to say I regret having children because they prevented me from doing all these things that I didn't bother doing before I had them. People ponder the road they choose not to take, but I don't think it is fair to blame your children for not taking that road, which I frequently hear people do, at least in my field. I work in technology, where there are few women and the men I work with all have stay at home wives.

"I'm not convinced that it is important to "leave a legacy". We aren't Egyptian Pharohs who need to build monuments to secure our immortality!"

No, of course we don't have to leave a legacy. But this comes up when parents say that think what they're doing is important - for their families, and for society as a while. Non-parents then often say "well, what I'm doing is important too - maybe even more important than bringing another child into the world."

Fact is, most kids grow up to be just another schmuck, just like the rest of us. Of course, this does mean that we get at least one more generation of schmucks.

The other relevant fact is that the non-child contribution of most people is just to be another working stiff, just like the rest of us.

There may not be a whole lot of value in this discussion - I suspect it has relatively little the decisions real people make about parenthood. For me, personally, I have a better shot at making a difference by contributing to the next generation than by any remarkable achievement of my own (for what that's worth).

Lurker here ... Just a note: the quote about freedom being just another word for nothing left to lose?

NOT a Janis Joplin quote. Kris Kristofferson wrote "Me and Bobbi McGee." Joplin just has the most famous version of it. (And I love Joplin, so this isn't a knock on her at all.)

Sorry to be the anal music person - you should see me when I'm watching American Idol! (It's a lot of "Noooo - did she really just call "Because the Night" a Natalie Merchant song?!?"!)

I'm going to post this without even looking at the other comments like I always do in case I chicken out. What Leslie says rings completely true for me. There is a piece of me that always wonders what my life would be like without children. I love them and would give my life for them and wouldn't change my experience, but I definitely wish sometimes that I was free to be the carefree woman I was before kids. At one point before I was married, I considered not having children, and thought about how great it would be to pursue my own interests without consideration for anyone else. I've come to realize that I'm a better person because I care the way I do about my children. Motherhood has made me less selfish, and for my own good.

Leslie,

I really appreciated your essay and thoughts. As someone who is childless by choice, my husband and I have been through the myriad of snotty - but sometimes thoughtful -- questions from people about our decision.

Reading your essay reminded me WHY we made that decision, but more than that, it also reminded me (as others have said) that we all have to decide what is important in our lives and then live for that. If it's kids, great. If it's traveling the world, great. If both can't occur, time to make some decisions.

But as human beings, that's what we're meant to do -- realy weight what's going on in our hearts with what's going on in our heads and find some way -- ANY way -- to make them mesh somehow.

I couldn't get through the 100+ comments already, so please bear with me if I'm being repetitive.

My husband and I are debating kids. Not sure where we're going to land on that, but we do have a game plan that doesn't necessarily make us "free" if we don't (or can't) have kids of our own.

It's a plan that includes involvement in our local Big Brother/Sister and Junior Achievement programs and spending time with our nieces and nephews.

And besides - my husband has been known to knock freshly folded laundry off the bed ;)

"Being childless enables you to die alone, to not leave your mark on the world .... It enables you to miss the full realm of emotions you feel as a parent....pure joy, elation, pride, it enables you to never know what it means to act completely selflessly and live as selfishly as you desire. Some people are way to selfish and narcissistic to reproduce and it is great that they can realize this."

I am so saddened by the judgemental nature of this post. Having children does not guarantee you won't die alone and if that is the reason to reproduce I think that is selfish -- having a child so that you have a nurse in old age. Implying that childless people can't be selfless is so wrong. Many people devout their lives to others -- sometimes at the expense of having a family and sometimes not -- to make the world a better place. Their energy, money, and careers focus on the greater good -- making a difference in big and small ways. I know people without children who are mentors, foster parents, community advocates, etc. I have a childless friend in the Beirut working to build democracy and peace in the region and I take offense at the description of her selfishness about not having children -- "not leave your mark on the world" and "never know what it means to act completely selflessly"

It's all about choices. It's not like Helen Mirren isn't giving up anything to enjoy the things she says her freedom allows her. She's giving up one of the most profound experiences a human being can have. Sure having kids is hard and relentless and often means giving stuff up. But so what? For me at least, it gives meaning to my life in a way a whole lot of traveling, eating out and shopping didn't in my 20s.

Mom2b - Thanks for the clarification. What I'm trying to say is that I question your ability to speak so authoritatively on a subject about which you have little experience. In addition, I take issue with what appears to be your inclination to make people who don't have childre feel bad or less than you because of their situation.

I know that being an expectant mom for the first time is the most exciting thing in the world and that you feel like you are doing something special and miraculous (which you are) but that doesn't give you the right to make others feel bad. By all means, enjoy the ride but not at others expense.

Remember, some people "can't" have children of their own. I can't begin to imagine how very painful that must be. Just be grateful that you can.

Remember mom2b - some of us selfish childless folks may be the very ones who will help you when you get overwhelmed! :-)

----------------------------------

Not so sure about that - 90% of the others on this board, I would gladly help. I generally give my help to those whose company I enjoy (and that requires being less judgemental).

to all the grumps - There are many who enjoy devoting themselves to meaningful, less glamorous work (in my case teaching). I find my job as rewarding as the time I devote to it. (ooops - time to get back to work I guess.)

And any parent who doesn't acknowledge at least ONCE in a while that parenting puts a real crimp on your life is a bottle short of a six-pack.

Please speak for everyone since you know us all so well or just speak for yourself. Maybe are some people are one bottle short of a six-pack because you drank it.

I knew at the age of 10 I didn't want kids. I'm in my 40s now and am very happy and content with not having kids in my life at all. I've never changed a diaper and that is fine with me. No regrets here.

Mom2b, I suspect that your lack of precision in word choice is complicating the issue. "Regret" has no negative connotations and by definition suggests nothing about blame, but you seem to be accusing those who admit ocassionally regreting their choice to have kids of somehow blaming the children for the fact that the parents aren't getting to do wild and wacky things. You're making a straw man argument, and not a very good one at that.

The fact that parents occasionally regret having kids doesn't mean that the kids are unloved or unappreciated or that the parents would choose not to have the kids if they had it to do over. It just means that life is complicated and sometimes, despite our best intentions, we regret not being able to make a different choice for ourselves. Regret, like sacrifice and responsibility, is one of those words that we become more familiar with as we grow older. It's healthy, and normal - even when it involves our kids.

Leslie, this was a beautiful post. I have no kids yet and I'm still in the process of deciding whether I want them, but it's exceedingly rare for parents to admit to regret and it's something I wonder about frequently. I enjoy sleeping in on weekends and traveling and having extra time that I can spend at my discretion, but to express such thoughts openly to my friends with kids yields nothing but criticism about my selfishness and my life's lack of purpose.

I value your honesty.

Mom2b - thanks for the clarification. What I'm responding to is your speaking so authoritatively on a subject with which you have relatively little experience.

I also take umbrage with your apparent inclination to make people who haven't made the same choice as you have feel bad or less than, because of that.

The choice to have children or not, is a very personal choice. Whether someone "can" have children is another deeply personal and often deeply painful situation. I think its unfair to try to diminish people for different choices about which we generally know nothing.

I know that being an expectant, first time mom is literally the most exciting, magical and miraculous thing ever, but that doesn't give you the right to dimish others with your enthusiasm. Enjoy the ride, just not at others expense.

Just because some people can't have children doesn't mean that those who can, should.

This post, and the comments it has generated, has been really interesting for me to see- the grass really does seem to be greener on the other side of the fence, at least at times, for just about everybody! I don't have children and probably never will, but I get similar twinges of "gee, wouldn't that be fun" when I see the public facade of some celebrity's seemingly blissful family life ("Brangelina" being a good example here). That's why I come to this blog for a reality check sometimes.

Re: legacies- I make efforts to leave a modest legacy in various ways, and honestly have no idea which of them will be most significant, or if any of them will be, whether it's something I do for someone in my family (no kids != no family), for a friend, through my work, or through a volunteer or charitable contribution. The accusation of being selfish for not having children (almost always aimed at women but not men, it seems to me) I usually just find confusing, because raising a child well is certainly a positive legacy, but if I was doing that I would be less able to do some of these other things that I hope are also leaving a legacy.

I have no intention of making childless women feel bad. I actually encourage them to speak to their reasons for not having children. I know many women who probably wouldn't have had children if it wasn't what they considered to be the next logical step in life. The question on this blog is can freedom and kids co-exist...and I think for everything I am giving up, I am gaining something much greater so I would say yes, I personally am better off, as I am excited to grow into this role where I am free to experience a whole new set of emotions (both highs and lows) I know I would have never personally experienced without children. I have a very good job and am in a position where few women work, and I know I this is not enough and I feel I am missing something without having children and I know I have a lot more to give. (and I do have an active social life, volunteer, am close with family and friends, active in church).

or me at least, it gives meaning to my life in a way a whole lot of traveling, eating out and shopping didn't in my 20s.

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But that is not how everyone spends their twenties! Hypothetical: suppose you spend your twenties in graduate school working hard and living on little. In your thirties you find yourself teaching in a small college, where you have a rewarding job that provides you the opportunity to teach and mentor many students. The more time you devote to classes and campus life the more rewarding the job is.

Now obviously parenthood and teaching aren't mutually exclusive, but the small child era does limit things for a few years for all but a few superhuman souls. In some cases, the way tenure track works, women still need to make a decision about which they want to risk their career for a higher chance of parenthood (pre 35).

I don't think Mirren was talking about the freedom to be materialistic, but instead the freedom to devote herself to work.

How about: war reporters, aid workers, doctors, scientists, the list goes on... it is of course possible to do these things and be parents - but I would respect those who claimed they thought they gave more through work than they thought they would through parenthood.

"Please speak for everyone since you know us all so well or just speak for yourself. Maybe some people are one bottle short of a six-pack because you drank it."

To quote the Simpson's comic book guy, "Worst comeback ever!"

On the other hand:

My favorite British actress, often compared (favorably) to Helen Mirren, is Judi Dench. She has made many wonderful comments about her experience of motherhood, and (according to imdb), "My only regret is that I didn't have more children."

Just a side note: after reading the column this morning, contemplating the "what ifs," getting laundry done, unloading dishwasher, finally taking a shower and trying to get out the door with a semi-sick kid I was exhausted.

As I'm saying goodbye to my husband and dog, and finally my son, he runs up to me singing "Banana Split for my baby, a glass a plain water for me!" That is all I needed to get through the rest of the day.....

Leslie, I think this was your best column that I've read. Because it was finally brutally honest about your own life. I admire your work so much. And I'm a 26 year old male who knows he could never be put through that same trauma. But Leslie, your columns often scare the bejesus out of me. Not because your life is hard....but because you are usually (subtly or not so subtly) determined to guilt every woman on Earth into wanting to live a Righteous Full Blooded American life exactly like yours. THAT'S the insanity. In a moment of calmness, you'll realize you don't really hate that Queen (or whoever she was) as much as you thought. I respect people for the choices they make, and I try not to impose my own on others. (Unless they're trying to hurt me, obviously) I respect (and admire) your decision to take the path you've chosen in life. But it's very clearly a mindnumbingly hectic/frantic existence. But that's YOUR choice. You can't write a column where you're judging everyone else for not living this insane version of motherhood exactly like yours. And if the insane/uterus ripping days start to outweigh the joyous (or I guess even neutral?) child rearing days then it may be time to make a serious change in your life. Another choice....which I would totally understand and totally respect you for.

For what it's worth, this is one young man who will never take for granted the challenges that all mother's face. If I can be a better husband to a future wife, or dad to a future daughter, I hope you will also consider that to be part of your triumphs and 'Egyptian Legacies'. I would not have learned about all this without reading your columns and their many responses. And trying to take better responsibility for my own choices in life. You just gotta do the best you can in your own life, Leslie. And I will continually wish you good luck in that.

JS and Singlemom, you don't have to give up travel with kids, you just have to plan a bit more -- and, frankly, not that much more when they're really small and totally portable. We like to travel and have taken our son on several trips. If you're used to travel, you'll take it in stride.

I agree with MoxieMom and to some extent with Older Dad about choices, though I think most people fail to see the positive side of that. As O