hmmmm, a blog on rich people having trouble spending their money. Must be terrible.

Good help is sooo hard to find. I couln't find anyone who knew to serve from the left and take from the right.

So what is the solution? To force black nannies to work for black families?

Why were there no interviews with DC nannies here? Why not ask the nannies how they choose? By the way jokesters, Nannies are not only for the rich, I know a slightly upper middle class family with 5 kids who has an immigrant nanny rather than spend $5k per month on daycare.

"The thing about racism is that you can't pinpoint it -- it's insidious and soul-numbing......

This is the best comment. Who is racist in this article? The white nannies who choose to work for white families, the black nannies who won't work for black families, or the black families who only want black nannies?

Actually, I think this article points to a somewhat larger issue --
When you hire someone to help care for your children, it's not like picking out a couch. You're hiring another human being -- who, like it or not, is going to have a worldview, values, opinions and experiences that they bring to that job.

The question is how you either (a.) find someone whose worldview gels with your own or (b.) make peace with the differences which you and your child's caregiver may have in terms of how you see the world, and how you impart your worldview to that child.

What the families in the article were experiencing was perhaps the realization that you want something more than someone who's reliable and kind -- you also want the person who's going to be imprinting their values on your child to not be racist, and to value your culture and your family's way of doing things -- even if it's different from their own. In other words, even if you could 'force' the white nannies (or black nannies) to work for your family, if deep down they harbored some racist sentiments, it might ultimately do your family more harm than good. (And even if you're a white family, do YOU really want a white nanny who is racist raising YOUR kids?)

I know all the books and guidebooks say that the best way to work out these issues with a caregiver is to be really honest and discuss them. ("I notice that you usually steer Isabel towards the pink dolls and the ballet books. We feel it's really important that she not be stereotyped into female roles . .. ") Unfortunately, I've never felt really comfortable having those conversations about values with caregivers -- have the rest of you?

"By the way jokesters, Nannies are not only for the rich, I know a slightly upper middle class family with 5 kids who has an immigrant nanny rather than spend $5k per month on daycare."

Are their papers up to date?

How can you say this points to a larger issue when the whole article is about rich, black people who can't find nannies because of their race? Did I read the same article as you?

This is the best comment. Who is racist in this article? The white nannies who choose to work for white families, the black nannies who won't work for black families, or the black families who only want black nannies?

Good question. All three groups could be racist or have racist feelings. I've never seriously considered a nanny; I prefer solid regulations and accountability for my kids when it comes to childcare. So I feel most comfortable with daycare centers. I don't even feel comfortable with family daycare. But a nanny (if I could afford one) probably would have been best for my son; too much noise and chaos and too many kids overstimulate him.

But here's my confession: I have used a white babysitter consistently to watch my kids (she was a teacher at my kids' former daycare). She is very good. She is also white. At first, I was reluctant to use her (my kids and I are black), until I saw that several other black families used her. I was told that that was racist. I don't agree. My fear was: is this woman racist, and will she be able to care for my kids without passing on anything racist or offensive? Not anything blatant, but something passed on unconsciously (or subconsciously) that could impact my kids' self-esteem? That was a silly thought when it came to this woman, and I regret it. It was fear based on racial history, but not racist sentiment.

But I'm curious. What do you think? Was I racist or not?

Get over it. Just because someone cannot find a nanny because the preferred candidates chose other homes does not mean that racism is at work. People choose the environment they want to work in for many reasons.Individual decisions, like working for a professional rather than other employers, enter into it. Nobody wants someone who settled for working for him or her. Finding a loving, stable nanny is a task for any race and blaming racism for it not being easier is just an unfair complaining mechanism growing out of frustration.

Turn the tables and make it a white family who didn't want a black woman to baby-sit their kid, now is that racist?

Interesting subject. I do not employ a nannie. My son goes to a school/daycare where he is part of the white minority. The teachers and director are black with the exception of one male teacher. I generally feel that my son will be able to grow and feel comfortable around all different kinds of people because of this exposure. These teachers and caregivers all care for my son as they would their own and my son is learning respect for those that look different than he, mommy or daddy does.

When you hire someone to help care for your children, it's not like picking out a couch. You're hiring another human being -- who, like it or not, is going to have a worldview, values, opinions and experiences that they bring to that job.

anon at 9:34: I'd say Armchair Mom was quite eloquent about the nature of the larger issue. Fine credentials and background checks are a threshold for hireability or placement, but neither is sufficient for determining whether any particular childcare provider is right for your child. Armchair Mom's comment applies to a broader subset of childcare providers than nannies. It's equally true for babysitting co-ops, preschools and that nice teenager who occasionally watches your kids so you can have a once a month date.

I guess we should get over it!!

to theoriginalmomoftwo

Yes. You are fearing/assuming that someone of a different skin color has negative opinions about someone of another skin color. Sounds like racism to me. If the situation was reversed, a white person thinking that about a black person, I think you would agree - if you are honest with yourself.

Interesting issue.

I used a day care provider (in her home) who was black, and for most of the 4-5 years I had a child there we were the only white family there. We loved her.

Is there any experience here to suggest that ethnic families are more likely to recruit family members to provide day care?

Turn the tables and make it a white family who didn't want a black woman to baby-sit their kid, now is that racist?

Second try with my response:

It depends. Come to think of it, I've never really had a problem with any white teachers, day camp counselors, child care workers, etc. working with my children, no more than black or Hispanic, etc. Just this woman. Now I'm wondering why.

This is a really tough issue. Of course if a black nanny says that she won't work for black families because they "don't pay well and ask for extra work", then yes that is racist because she is generalizing about one race. The truth is there is racism within the black community---be it based on skin color (lighter people better thought of for example) or for whatever other reason. I was completely taken aback when a young black physician I was supervising in the ER came to me to say that a black family refused to be treated by him. They preferred a jewish doctor. Totally ridiculous, but it's a tough situation---(would have loved to lecture them about this, but didn't for all kinds of reasons related to preferring to focus on the very sick patient). Just goes to show you that racism is alive and well in this country.

Now I agree that having someone in your home as a caretaker of your child is fraught with all kinds of emotion and anxiety. The family and the caregiver enter an intimate relationship and there needs to be a comfort level on both sides. So the reasons for the choice both ways is not always clear.

And with regard to this being a "rich" family's issue--sure, I agree. But it demonstrates that it's not so easy for those with money either. Be nice. Maybe tomorrow Leslie will talk about families without money and how they handle childcare.

Just because someone cannot find a nanny because the preferred candidates chose other homes does not mean that racism is at work.

Did you feel the same way, e.g., that racism was not at work, when it became generally recognized in the late '80s by the masses that middle-class black men in Midtown couldn't get a cabbie of any race to stop for them?

When there's an isolated incident, I understand your reluctance to acknowledge that racism is afoot. However, when one or more agencies won't return the call of an African-American parent because the agency has no potential candidate in its pool who will work for a family about whom the agency knows precious more than its race and surname, what's the most reasonable conclusion to draw? Let's not get distracted by who's being racist. The more important point is that childcare options are not equally available to everyone of a similar economic background.

It may also depend on the care type.

If you have someone live-in then you're looking at a much more intimate relationship, and ethnic habits might become more of an issue.

What is an "ethnic family"?

Let's not get distracted by who's being racist

Of course not. We don't want to shine the light on the fact that black people can be racist too.

We've entered the twilight zone here, when we start crying "racism" when a member of one racial/ethnic group doesn't want to work for someone else of the _same_ group because the prospective employer a) pays less, b) demands more work, and c) the job is located in a more dangerous area.

Wake up and smell the coffee - the other term for this is "taking the better job offer." The solutions used by millions of other employers include: a) offering more money; b) accepting a less experienced or less qualified employee; c) improving the job conditions.

There are some things "that you can't pinpoint" because they aren't there (poltergeists and leprecauns leap to mind for me).

"We don't want to shine the light on the fact that black people can be racist too."

Of course, we wouldn't want to miss a day of the OnBalance blog re-directed toward grinding your favorite ax so you can justify your own racism. Please do carry on and don't let the rest of us get in your way while we discuss kids, families and balance.

I am actually amazed how some people are so quick to dismiss this as a potential racist situation. I think it may be that the AA parents do not care if the nanny is AA or not. But if they can't get anyone to work for them based on race, then there is some racism in play. It is really sad when AAs are racist towards each other. But I can totally see that some people would not want to work for someone based on race. And that is wrong. Sad but true. I really feel for these families. It seems like they can't win. They work hard, get educated, and want to do the best for their families. And there are so many obstacles from the black community and the non black communities. Also, why do you guys all assume anyone with a nanny is rich. I know a number of upper middle class families with nannies. After two kids, a nanny is actually more affordable then full time day care with 3+ children. Even with two, it becomes questionable. I know several families of twins that found it was cheaper to get a nanny for the first 15 months then pay two infant day care costs. And believe it or not, the rich have problems too.

How many families in "dangerous areas" are hiring nannies? Really.

When people ask why we don't have children, my husband and I like to joke "who would take care of them and who would they play with?" We would have to employ a nanny because of our odd work schedules. The nannies in the article might find me "demanding," an employer wants someone articulate, who also can braid hair. And either my husband or me staying home isn't on the table.

The larger issue that the article touches on is that the playing field for people of color is NOT level. Childcare, just like mortages or financing a car, is layered with race and class biases on both sides.

As a middle-class black couple, I feel that we are somewhat of a no-man's land of race and class. Lower-income blacks sometimes resent our success, while some whites of all backgrounds assume the worst, simply because we're black.

I think it is clear that most of the people posting comments have not read the article. I highly recommend that you do because it is truly heartbreaking. The black families featured did not say that they preferred or wanted a black nanny, only that no nanny would work for them, and that they were particularly surprised that even blacks nannies were among those who refused. One nanny describes an experience at the playground where the other nannies referred to the black child she was babysitting as a little monkey. It was terrible, and I don't think these families were just imagining it. These were hardworking people who earned a good living and had every right to seek decent childcare. Why the attacks?

"We don't want to shine the light on the fact that black people can be racist too."

Of course, we wouldn't want to miss a day of the OnBalance blog re-directed toward grinding your favorite ax so you can justify your own racism. Please do carry on and don't let the rest of us get in your way while we discuss kids, families and balance.

Nothing this person said was racist. Get a grip. If you don't want to discuss the whole issue, maybe you should wait until tomorrow's blog to post. Please do not speak for me either.

Here's a bone to chew on: just b/c the nanny or the family is "black" doesn't mean they are from the same culture. The ethnicity box may read African-American, but the individual who checks that box may be a native of the States, the Caribbean or the African sub-continent. Certainly if you are looking for care-givers who share similar values, varying cultures may also impact the choices a family or the nanny make.

jrobin, I'm in total agreement with you.

This is an interesting topic - the kind of issue that keeps me stopping by this blog occaisionally.

Most of the child care providers in my community are Hispanic and the families are primarily upper middle class of all ethnicities. I've never heard of discrimination against particular families, perhaps because the ethnic mix is so varied. However, most tend to hire directly through word of mouth and not through an agency. It seems the agencies are making assumptions apriori that are based on stereotypes. I work with people who are responsible for training child care providers and am now curious about their views on this.

The article doesn't say that black families pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. It says the prospective employee assumes that black families will pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. Since it is not fact it is an assumption that would be stereotyping and prejudice.

Finding childcare is difficult, adding this layer makes it harder. Is it unfair to those it happens to? YES. Is there a solution, not likely.

My nickname for my son is monkey - why is that offensive?

My nickname for my son is monkey - why is that offensive?

On the topic of poverty, childcare (or simply caring for children), and bad neighborhoods, I have just finished reading and absolutely recommend Adrian Nicole Leblanc's _Random Family_--a documentary account of about ten years in the lives of a group of loosely related Puerto Ricans living in the Bronx. It is the most heartbreaking story, told in a strikingly matter-of-fact and non-judgmental way; I think it would be a nice counterpoint to this blog's admittedly wealthier, "whiter" point of view.

Hear, hear, jrobin.

The only surprise I had in the article was the couple whose primary reason for seeking a caregiver of the same race was hairstyling. I appreciate that knowing how to take care of African-American hair is a trained skill, but I would have thought they'd be willing to train a caregiver on appropriate haircare and hairstyling if that caregiver was right for their family in all other respects. I couldn't help but think of the items on our childcare MUST HAVE list, and thinking that this skillset would have been farther down my list. Maybe the article didn't do justice to this family's concerns or maybe I was reading to fast, or is the hair issue somewhat of a marker for a caregiver who understands a whole host of race-specific issues?

"Many black families say they seek only a sitter who is reliable and loving. But some do have race-based preferences themselves......."

"They preferred a black sitter, who would instantly understand matters like how to do their daughter's hair"

"another time, she placed a race-neutral ad, and hid by the window as the prospective nannies drove up, sighing with relief when a black one appeared."

"In an exception to the usual stroller parade of black sitters with white children, some white nannies do care for black children -- and experience slights because of it. Margaret Kop, a Polish sitter in Chicago, said that on a recent playground visit, ''one of the other nannies asked me, 'Where did you find that monkey?' '' On the way home, Ms. Kop cried, stung by the insult to the child she loved."

That is acceptable to you?

I found the following quote interesting:

"For nannies, working for an employer of the same background or skin color ''highlights their lower economic status,'' she said, but ''the fact that their employers are black just makes that more intense.''

I agree w/ Wow; I read the article last week when it appeared and sent it out to my friends who are moms. As a black woman in my late 30's, I have to admit that these are the issues that make me wonder whether or not I want to have a child. As hard as it is to raise a child, no matter what your economic status is, those of us from certain ethnic (ethnic being any group w/ a common culture, language, customs, etc.) backgrounds recognize we will face obstacles that folks from other ethnic backgrounds won't have to even consider.

That is acceptable to you?

who are you talking too?

I'm pretty sure the monkey comment is offensive because as a people african americans have been compared to monkeys in the past. I call my children little monkeys (we are white) but I would never use that term with a child of color because it might be misinterpreted. What the article didn't convey was the tone of the question about the child. I'm assuming it was more of an incredulous question than a sweet one.

Do au pairs have the same ability to reject a quality placement as nannies? It has been my impression that au pairs have far less power to pick and choose the families they work for and that, while not the same quality childcare, this might be the best way around this problem. Au pairs are less expensive, but the turnover rate is not less than once per year which is why we wouldn't have considered one. Thoughts?

Triviagal - remember the morons are not going to stop breeding - you might want to have a child just to make sure they don't outnumber us.

is it really you, moxiemom, or an imposter posing as the one and only moxiemom?

I think most people can recognize that the incidents described in the article are racist. I'm just surprised that with racism that blatent, there are still some who don't believe it (bizarre) or dismiss it. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing it.

The monkey comment was horrible. If anyone ever called my cousins monkeys or my friends, I would have a hard time controlling myself. The larger issue is the fact that a lot of people in this article were being discriminated against and a lot held prejudices against people they knew nothing about. I think discrimination and racism can happen to anyone regardless of their color. I am white and while I am not an expert at black hair, I have done it a time or to and would be willing to learn to do it better.

I also think that because this is America people have the right to turn down any job for any reason at anytime. I do wish I had some money to start a company because it seems like there is a great need for nannies that is going unfilled because of people's bias. I could make a killing and help people. I have the flu, so I am going back to bed. Just thought I would put my 2 cents in.

haha Its really me NC Lawyer - i promise. Maybe you'll get to know my tone and then you can tell. Thanks for asking.

Moxiemom took the words right out of my mouth about the monkey comment. I don't want to be one of the people hijacking this discussion, but I do think that it is important to acknowledge that this is an additional obstacle that people of color can face. I can't say I was surprised but I was just saddened that people felt the need to make it about the families being racist or the person who said that it is at outrageous to believe that racism still exists as it is to believe in poltergeists or leprechauns. I appreciate many of the thoughtful comments because I think open honest discussions about race and racism are important.

moxiemom,

In my flu induced haze I thought you said the mormans aren't going to stop breeding. I had to go back and re-read it.

I agree with moxiemom. I have had people call my DD a monkey because she is a climber. It just seems to be in her blood. But if DD was AA, I would be highly offended because I would question why they were calling DD a monkey. I would never call any child a monkey of AA descent.

"We've entered the twilight zone here, when we start crying "racism" when a member of one racial/ethnic group doesn't want to work for someone else of the _same_ group because the prospective employer a) pays less, b) demands more work, and c) the job is located in a more dangerous area."

No, actually, we cry racism when a potential employee ASSUMES that a prospective employer will (a) pay less, (b) demand more, and (c) be located in a more dangerous area, SOLELY because the employer is black, without knowing a damn thing more about the situation.

Why do people seem to get so angry and defensive about the concept that racism still exists? Every time someone even mentions racism on this board, the knee-jerk responses are guaranteed to be either "it's all in your head" or "black people are racist, too." Plus today we get a nice little side of schadenfreude because of the perceived wealth of the people involved. Are people just in denial, or are they actively trying to sabotage any productive discussion on the topic?

I'm not saying that there's any easy answer to this. But money is green. When people start treating it as black or white, that needs to be exposed and talked about, not swept under the rug or brushed off.

Not surprised at all, after reading the NYT article.

This just shows another way in which our society is sick, no matter how you want to slice it between races or ethnicities. It's like the assumptions black folks face in a restaurant when people assume they won't tip well, so they get bad seating and bad service; or that in order to be successful they must be doing something illegal.

A nanny service in Washington that willingly cuts Prince George's County out of its service area -- the wealthiest majority-black county in the US -- is being racist, but more importantly is displaying an inferior business practice. I wish such a service would be put out of business for having very poor acumen.

No matter our education or income levels, there are still too many in America today who are willing to believe black people alone are a drain on society if we're not successful -- a stigma not as quickly attached to other races or ethnic groups here -- and a threat to the success of the larger (white) society if we are successful.

There are still too many black people who have done all the prerequisites for success in this country but have to jump through additional hoops over and over again to guarantee their worthiness. And it disgusts me to the very core.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"The article doesn't say that black families pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. It says the prospective employee assumes that black families will pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. Since it is not fact it is an assumption that would be stereotyping and prejudice."

Yes, but WHY did the prospective employee believe that to be true? We're talking about people looking for work, who have job offers from multiple employers of different races - and in many cases, I suspect, experience with multiple employers of different races.

Let's start with the simplest piece. Do you really believe that African-American employers are - on average, of course - offering as much or more money than others, and that African-American nannies are too ill-informed to realize it? That's absurd!

"The article doesn't say that black families pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. It says the prospective employee assumes that black families will pay less, demand more and live in an unsafe environment. Since it is not fact it is an assumption that would be stereotyping and prejudice."

Yes, but WHY did the prospective employee believe that to be true? We're talking about people looking for work, who have job offers from multiple employers of different races - and in many cases, I suspect, experience with multiple employers of different races.

Let's start with the simplest piece. Do you really believe that African-American employers are - on average, of course - offering as much or more money than others, and that African-American nannies are too ill-informed to realize it? That's absurd!

scarry - you made me laugh out loud - a rarity. Imagine the firestorm that would have unleashed. Remember to hydrate and feel better.

Laura, I agree with you. I find the phrase, "blacks are racist too" to be a discussion-killer. Racists can come in all colors; that's no stunning revelation. But what about the topic at hand?

I appreciate an open discussion about race. I hope we will have that today.

Good Help is hard to find? You sure? A friend's roommate was letting his illegal immigrant girlfriend live at their apartment, she was a nanny. She came over legally with Au Pair in America, a 1-year program, yet has been in the US for 4 years, well beyond her legal welcome. good help isn't hard to find, it's a matter of whether it's legal or not.

Bizzare,

I think the absurdity is your blind faith that market forces are always right.

The irony here is that, back in the day, all the openly, proudly racist white families used black nannies, maids, drivers, etc.

When has there ever been a case where a nanny could replace a father or mother, never. It sounds like all of you career women should sit down and read the story of Nancy Pelosi, she stayed home and raised 5 children and didn't enter the workforce until she was 47 and look where she is today.You've got your priorities screwed up again girls.

a good nanny is a good nanny, regardless of color or background. Period. But without trying a nanny out, it's impossible to know if she is the "right" nanny for your children. So parents are trying to make an "educated guess" -- looking form somebody whose culture, background, language, life experience they are familiar with. Something tangible that they can understand and evaluate. Looking into somebody's eyes and seeing their soul (to paraphrase our Pres, I am being sarcastic). In my view, racism does not come into play at all here.

mcewen:Maybe the guys should be re-examining their priorities.

"Why do people seem to get so angry and defensive about the concept that racism still exists?"

Because we seem to have become obsessed with it. Regardless of who you are, what your background is, or what your racial and ethnic origins are, some:

a) People will not like you;

b) Prospective employers will not hire you;

c) Contests in life you will lose;

d) Waitstaff will be surly and unhelpful;

e) Some situations will seem to be, at least from your point of view, randomly and inexplicably unfair.

Unfortunately, that's part of the human condition. Racism is a bad thing, but it's not the cause of all the unfairness and interpersonal nastiness in the world - not even for African-Americans.

Slavery was evil. Jim Crow was evil. But when we turn the difficulty in finding a good nanny into a case of racism, we're trivializing the whole concept. I am heartily sick of people whose first instinct is to attribute all the normal annoyances of life to racism, misogyny, class snobbery or religious fundamentalism. Many of us need to grow up, accept that not everyone likes us, and get on with our lives.

I don't think that bringing up that blacks are racist too is a "discussion killer". In the NYT article, it is apparent that the black nannies are stereotyping and displaying prejudices against black families. Discussing this is not necessarily a bad thing--the other writers who brought it up did so to add to the discussion. Not as a way to end it by saying "look they are racist too so end the discussion". Racism is insidious and harmful no matter who displays it. It is worse when one group "hates" itself (for lack of a more eloquent term). Though I agree that the "institutional" racism may be more harmful--that the agencies not referring nannies to the families based on sterotypes, I think it is useful to look at the entire issue and discern why this is an issue for black families.

I'm actually impressed with the level of discussion today. Aside from a couple of snarky comments (and they were opinions that weren't particulary toxic), it's been a nice discussion.

Do you realize that what you just wrote is in fact racist? DO you even get that? Let me take you through the steps of stereotyping. You say "well on average this is the way black people do something. Therefore, it is reasonable for people to assume that a certain, specific family that happens to be black, will also likely act in the same way."

That is text-book prejudice-- and there are alternatives! People can either either stop with the first step and stop considering what the "average" black family is like OR, if that is just too darn difficult to cut out of their thinking, at the second step they can say "Well even if the average black family does yadda, yadda, yadda I shouldn't assume that they will be like the typical black family. Every family is totally different and I should consider each on their own terms."

Do you realize that what you just wrote is in fact racist? DO you even get that? Let me take you through the steps of stereotyping. You say "well on average this is the way black people do something. Therefore, it is reasonable for people to assume that a certain, specific family that happens to be black, will also likely act in the same way."

That is text-book prejudice-- and there are alternatives! People can either either stop with the first step and stop considering what the "average" black family is like OR, if that is just too darn difficult to cut out of their thinking, at the second step they can say "Well even if the average black family does yadda, yadda, yadda and I shouldn't assume that they will be like the typical black family. Every family is totally different and I should consider each on their own terms."

Speaking of prejudice - would anyone here hire a manny? (male nanny?)

Like you I admire Nancy Pelosi. I would even want to work for her. But, guess what? The demands of working for the speaker's office are not compatible with family/life balance.

Bizzarre, Please go back and read the underlying article. I'm trying to be charitable and assume you haven't or you would know that the nannies quoted spoking in explicitly racial terms about prospective employers.

What I find interesting about this is that it is the AA nannies that will not work with AA families... is it a racial or cultural issue?

From my experience with daycares/preschools the majority of the teachers are AA in the school. Does this have any indication on the prefered mode of employment - families vs centers? Which pay better and provide better benefits?

Bizarre - can I ask your race? I'm white and I would have a hard time asking people of color to just get over it. I don't think that unless you have experienced racism you can really speak to how it feels and how important or unimportant it is. Just curious.

"I think the absurdity is your blind faith that market forces are always right."

Pseudo Milton,

Are you honestly telling me that an African-American woman who has to support herself as a nanny is going to interview with an African-American family that offers her more money, but take a job with an Anglo family that pays her less, because of her mistaken beliefs about African-Americans? (Remember, job listings don't generally specify race, so she had to see them to know they were African-American.) If you truly believe this is the simplest explanation, then I would suggest your Occam's Razor needs a bit of sharpening.

NC Lawyer,

Sorry about Wake Forest.

On the other hand, I did have a professor in the c.s.s. that I attended with an interesting name. He was Dr. Forrest Woods from the Piney Woods of East Texas!

"But when we turn the difficulty in finding a good nanny into a case of racism, we're trivializing the whole concept."

I heartily disagree. As others have pointed out, there are people in this article that express blatant racism. It demonstrates that it still exists and has an negative effect on black families. While agree with you in general that people tend to whine a bit much, in this case, the discussion is justified.

I agree with the writer above who said that the seemingly racist attitude of a certain DC nanny agency that won't send nanny candidates to PG is bad business hit the nail on the head! Stupid if you ask me. Lots of wealthy folks there so pretty stupid, eh?. I think you can extrapolate this to any other business and there are a number of examples of black folks who opened their own businesses and made a killing. Not a lot of prejudice where green is concerned.

This is a really tough issue. Of course if a black nanny says that she won't work for black families because they "don't pay well and ask for extra work", then yes that is racist because she is generalizing about one race.
=============================================
OR MAYBE SHE IS USING HER PAST EXPERIENCE AS A GUIDE

?????????

Re: Haircare "Is that a of a marker for a caregiver who understands a whole host of race-specific issues?

Absolutely, it is a marker. I won't get into all the cultural things that come along with hair, but in my experience, and I'm sure a lot of the black women on this blog can attest, a child with neat, well-kept hair is a reflection of good care.

I also would like to respond to people who say "Get over it." Trust me, we'd like to. The problem is that there are too many people in the majority who don't notice that racism exists, because it just doesn't affect them. For example, it should really bother the people who use the DC nanny agency that it doesn't serve Prince Georges County. But, the lack of service probably won't be a concern until the growing number of PGC whites need nannies.

I agree with whomever said this is a great opportunity for someone to start business that cater to middle-class people of color.

"You say 'well on average this is the way black people do something. Therefore, it is reasonable for people to assume that a certain, specific family that happens to be black, will also likely act in the same way.'

to Bizarre:

In point of fact, I said no such thing. Read my posts - I never said or implied that ". . . on average this is the way black people do . . . "

If you want to talk, take the time to listen to what I actually say.

I do, in fact, assume that nannies (black, white, asian and martian, for that matter) look at job listings that show such things as wages, hours and number of kids - but not the race of the prospective employer. I also assume that they select several that look good to them, and go interview. Do you disagree?

If, at the end of the day, many African-American nannies pick white employers over African-American employers, it's not because they don't understand who pays better, or what the job requirements are. This idea that African-American nannies are blindly assuming that they'll make, for instance, $0.75 an hour less if they work for another African-American, and thus won't even consider it, is a crock.

I'm a racist, you're a racist, everyone is a racist.

Slavery was evil. Jim Crow was evil. But when we turn the difficulty in finding a good nanny into a case of racism, we're trivializing the whole concept. I am heartily sick of people whose first instinct is to attribute all the normal annoyances of life to racism, misogyny, class snobbery or religious fundamentalism. Many of us need to grow up, accept that not everyone likes us, and get on with our lives.
==============================================
AMEN.

"would anyone here hire a manny? (male nanny?)"

Yes, moxiemom, assuming we had the resources, we'd select the person who best met our criteria for caregiving. One of our criteria is that anyone caring for our kids is personally known to a friend or long-term work colleague of either my husband or myself. We are comfortable that limiting ourselves to caregivers with a positive track record with friends reduces the risk of lurking weirdos of either gender. As an aside, we believe that both of our kids benefit from seeing males, in addition to their dad and several uncles, in a caregiving role.

Our kids are school age. Perhaps those with younger kids, e.g., kids too young to understand good touch/bad touch and to communicate fully with their parents what goes on with babysitter A or B, might have a different perspective.

Well said, jrobin. It would be a great thing if such a business you described were to come into being.

Mentioning Ockham, and then introducing an assumption about how most nannies find work - fantastic! No sir, my suggestion is that the hypothetical nanny in question would never go to the interview in the first place. Your inexperience in the mechanics of the nanny job market is clear.

"It sounds like all of you career women should sit down and read the story of Nancy Pelosi, she stayed home and raised 5 children and didn't enter the workforce until she was 47 and look where she is today.You've got your priorities screwed up again girls"

This is a joke right? Sounds like this statement comes from an ignorant cave person with his/her head in the sand. Over 70% of mothers work. It's reality, get over it. And since it seems you don't know what you are talking about--nannies do not replace parents. They provide childcare while parents work. Would you suggest that a father wait until he is 47 years old to start his career. You really are an ignorant person.

Once again the POST highlights the concerns of rich people. Don't you guys realize that poor people can read, too?

Am I the only one having trouble posting today?

Re the earlier comment directed at Laura and me, it's one thing to have a discussion about self-racism. It's another to immediately come out with, "well blacks are racist too" and add nothing else to the conversation. Such an action doesn't further the conversation but attempts to stop it or attempts to dismiss the previous views made.

"Bizarre - can I ask your race?"

No - and I'll tell you why. In my opinion, we've gotten so hung up over race that we no longer actually listen to what people say, but respond to who they are instead. How else can you explain people asking if Barak Obama is a genuine "African-American?" Or this whole concept of being "black enough?" I may be an idiot, but I'm honestly trying to respond to what people are actually saying (that's one of the beauties of this medium - you have to address what's said, because you don't know who's saying it).

There are people who don't like me, don't trust me, and assume all sorts of bad things about me due to where I grew up, my age, and the color of my skin. (Of course, other people like me, trust me, and assume good things about me - they tend to be the ones with similar backgrounds, ages and skin colors.) At times this has hurt me; at other times it has helped me.

Blessedly, I've never been seriously harmed. But I can tell the difference between serious harm and the incidental friction between people. I would never tell someone to just "get over" serious prejudice. But telling them to get over, for instance, a nanny taking another job because it paid more or she liked the people better - in a heartbeat. If you don't let that sort of thing go, you're just gonna make yourself miserable (and have no one to blame but yourself).

"OR MAYBE SHE IS USING HER PAST EXPERIENCE AS A GUIDE
?????????"

So, a white worker at Starbucks was mean to me today so that means I won't go to Starbucks with white workers because they are all mean. Pretty stupid argument. Indicting a whole race for one or two past experiences is ignorant and racist.

"No sir, my suggestion is that the hypothetical nanny in question would never go to the interview in the first place."

Why - because you assume the ad she reads in the paper says "African-American family seeking nanny to . . ."? For real?

I echo Wow's caution to read the article. You need to read the facts -- presented by an objective reporter -- to see that clearly, racism is the primary issue here.

Also want to echo Armchair Mom's point about the 'larger' issues. Hiring any childcare provider is difficult, heartwrenching, and an act of faith in other human beings.

When it works, it is exhiliarating and wonderful to find someone who cares for your child(ren)with respect, kindness and love. That's what makes this so hard -- to have to confront racism and all its ugliness in a process that is already difficult.

These issues apply no matter your income status or the kind of childcare you're looking for. Even when it's your mom or close friend who is caring for your kids it's hard to hand them over and cross your fingers that everything will be okay while you are gone.

It is GOOD for kids to trust other people besides you -- they have to at some point, right? But it's part of your job as a parent to make sure the people you trust are trustworthy. It's a minefield even under good circumstances.

" Indicting a whole race for one or two past experiences is ignorant and racist."

Good point. That would be bad statistical analysis. What would be a valid sample size? When papers like the Washington Post do polling, what do they use - five or six hundred? When does it stop being "ignorant" and start becoming "playing the odds?"

Moxiemom, I would definitely hire a manny if he had the qualifications I required, and the rest of the family liked him. Remember the really sweet one on "Friends"? I'd enjoy having a manny/nanny who is that attentive and focused.

I have another, sort of off-topic question. What does everyone here think are the preferences of nannies concerning mixed-race couples? Black/white, Latino/black, Asian/white, etc.? Do you think there are similar problems if one half of the couple is black, or if one half is Latino, or simply because of prejudices against mixed-race couples in general? I'm just personally curious to see what everyone here thinks.

Moxiemom, I would definitely hire a manny if he had the qualifications I required, and the rest of the family liked him. Remember the really sweet one on "Friends"? I'd enjoy having a manny/nanny who is that attentive and focused.

I have another, sort of off-topic question. What does everyone here think are the preferences of nannies concerning mixed-race couples? Black/white, Latino/black, Asian/white, etc.? Do you think there are similar problems if one half of the couple is black, or if one half is Latino, or simply because of prejudices against mixed-race couples in general? I'm just personally curious to see what everyone here thinks.

Bizarre, I think the whole point of the article is that these nannies aren't choosing certain employers because they pay more or they like them better, but rather because they make negative assumptions about African American families because of their race. They backed up that claim with anecdotal and statistical evidence. You can choose to argue that this is not the case and thats fine, but I think it's unfair to just assume that in terms of race, black people have chips on their shoulder and are constantly accusing people of being racist.

Sorry about the double post! What's up with WaPo today?

NIce to hear NC Lawyer - I have a neighbor who is sooo freaked out that she will not EVER have a male babysitter - so instead of using the nephew of a neighbor who we know and is 20 - she will use a college student that she knows nothing about or a 13 year old girl. I kind of felt she was being short sighted and I too love that my children see another man in their life who nurtures them besides daddy.

would hire a manny for a son and not a daughter... sorry read to many articles about abuse. could be a wrong, but that is my gut reaction.

Mentioning Ockham, and then introducing an assumption about how most nannies find work - fantastic! No sir, my suggestion is that the hypothetical nanny in question would never go to the interview in the first place. Your inexperience in the mechanics of the nanny job market is clear.

Single Mom-

You are a real airhead! Boys are sexually abused all the time.

I am always amazed at people who assume racism no longer exists - yeah, we passed a couple of laws and it went away.

I think people can tell the difference between the friction of daily life and prejudice. And the thing about racism is that it is so insidous (sp?). Its not the one store in which you get followed, its the 129th.

As a teenager, I went to the beach for a week with a group of friends, one of whom was black. She got stares, comments, reactions from people, rude service. I never noticed it until she pointed it out and then I saw it, again and again. I never noticed it because I'd never experienced it, I never had to. She lived it everyday.

I'd never tell someone to "get over" something I didnt have to live with.

OR MAYBE SHE IS USING HER PAST EXPERIENCE AS A GUIDE

Do not say or write or type "past experience" as all experience is in the past. Using the words "past experience" together is redundant.

What if I am experiencing annoyance right now? It's not in the past, it is in the present.

"Do not say or write or type "past experience" as all experience is in the past. Using the words "past experience" together is redundant."

Your second sentence there is redundant.

Hi Mona - happy new year - glad to see you back. Also anon at 12:28 - you could have made your point to Single mom a little more credibly if you didn't call her names. She didn't deserve that.

If its rasism you want to talk about, look at what the scream queens of the womens movement have done to loving caring fathers and children, black or white, at the time of divorce, now thats real gender rasism. The idiotic morons who run the court system in this country TAKE THE CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE FATHER.

If its rasism you want to talk about, look at what the scream queens of the womens movement have done to loving caring fathers and children, black or white, at the time of divorce, now thats real gender rasism. The idiotic morons who run the court system in this country TAKE THE CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE FATHER.

Hey! Find your own nickname!

I did not post that. As I have said more than once, I do not correct posters--only the official blog writers.

to grammar police internal investigations unit.

Yes, I know but people who unconsciously use phrases such as "past experience", "very latest" and "very unique" need heavy duty reinforcement.

"What if I am experiencing annoyance right now? It's not in the past, it is in the present."

This is also a proper usage. The word experience can indicate some current action or one or several in the past.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/experience

What if I am experiencing annoyance right now? It's not in the past, it is in the present.

I LOVE IT.

Sorry, The Real Grammar Police.

I will make up a new name. Grammar Sheriff? Grammar Gendarme? The unofficial grammar police? Not the grammar police?

mcewen,
You need serious help. See a shrink or something. If not for you, do it for your kids.

jessker15, I agree with you. It's tough enough to be in a minority, but then to have people treat you badly or assume things about you because of it every minute of the day is hard. I wish that people who think these things are not racist could live as a black person for one day. That would open up their eyes.

Interest in this topic was obviously exhausted a few minutes after the topic was first posted.......

Has anyone seen the film "Children Of Men"?

"would hire a manny for a son and not a daughter... sorry read to many articles about abuse."

single mom -- I'm not trying to be snarky, but if you have concluded that your daughter might be at risk of sexual abuse from a manny, but not your son, are you assuming that all guys are heterosexual? I honestly cannot recall ever reading a news article about a 17 - 20 year old guy sexually abusing a 2 year old female child under his care. Just sayin'.

Regarding the specifics of the nanny job market, for an au pair you have to submit an application that includes pictures of the parents and the kids and then the au pair can read the application and decide whether or not to interview for the position. Clearly, she'd know your race from the pictures. And many au pairs these days come from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, which are not exactly bastions of multiracial tolerance.

thanks, Armchair Mom, that's helpful. Most of the au pairs I encountered in the D.C. area were from the midwest -- lots of small town Kansans and Oklahomans. Clearly, my circle was not representative.

moxiemom, my husband and I once hired a male nanny, the reaction from friends/peers were quite judgemental. I had to constantly explained my reasoning. Additionally, I am as well a woman of color, I don't much care or give much thoughts to white and black racist- I'm too busy trying to figure out how to have a fabulous life. If somebody judges me wrongly becasue of my appearance, well, I rather they loose sleep over it instead of me. The obstacle that I'm trying to come to term with is, is getting older, and finding the courage to allow myself to do it gracefully and not given in to the urge of going under knife. I'll make it, but it'll take a lot of energy.

I've been gone for awhile, taking care of work (don't worry, I don't have any children, lol!).

I'm still reading some posts from a couple of hours ago, but I can see that there are a few terms that are being used interchangeably and they are not synonomous. "Prejudice," (derived from the prefix "pre" and the word "judge") means to judge or assess someone w/o any real information on them. This is something we all do; it is not the same as "racism" (the ability to negatively impact the day to day life of an individual or group of people based on ethnic background), which is also distinct from "bigotry" (the dislike of an individual based on their ethnic background). Some argue that people of color cannot be racist b/c we don't control the means of production or distribution (unless we are committing a hate crime, for example), however that is an entirely different discussion.

When a nanny agency does not service PG county, they are being racist. When a nanny doesn't want to work for a black family (whether or not the nanny is herself black), she is being bigoted. Some would argue that I am splitting hairs, but it is very important that we understand the distinctions. Words are powerful when used appropriately, or inappropriately.

Fred,

To think the Deacs were ahead in the fourth quarter and folded like a cheap deck of cards. Sheesh. Moving on. Go LSU Tigers! Is the line still 9 1/2?

"You can choose to argue that this is not the case and thats fine, but I think it's unfair to just assume that in terms of race, black people have chips on their shoulder and are constantly accusing people of being racist. "

When did I say that "black people have chips on their shoulder" or are "constantly accusing people of being racist"? This strikes me as a pretty blatant instance of basically pretty well-off people crying racism over one of the normal problems of life, but I never suggested that it was typical of all African-Americans, or that every charge of racism was invalid.

"And many au pairs these days come from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, which are not exactly bastions of multiracial tolerance."

And this is NOT an example of prejudice? or at least gross generalizations?

I think, as a white person, that saying "Black people are racist too" is important. Because every day of MY life, I'm constantly being accused of keeping the black man down. Yes, there are white people in this world who are given things because they are white. But as a white female from the middle class, who went to public school and whose parents did not go to college, I can honestly ask you, what did I ever do to the black race? I think it is important, and healing, to note that we're not all bad.

NC Lawyer,

I am not a "point spread" man. I just want to see the score straight up.

I do hope LSU does win as my boss, who went to LSU and has 2 sons there now, promised me a 1/2 day off on Friday if LSU prevails!

I think, as a white person, that saying "Black people are racist too" is important. Because every day of MY life, I'm constantly being accused of keeping the black man down. Yes, there are white people in this world who are given things because they are white. But as a white female from the middle class, who went to public school and whose parents did not go to college, I can honestly ask you, what did I ever do to the black race? I think it is important, and healing, to note that we're not all bad.

"And many au pairs these days come from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, which are not exactly bastions of multiracial tolerance."

And this is NOT an example of prejudice? or at least gross generalizations?

Fred,

That's the best reason I've heard for favoring a particular outcome in any Bowl game. Not only do I hope the Tigers prevail, as they should, but I wish for you good weather on the 5th.

"No sir, my suggestion is that the hypothetical nanny in question would never go to the interview in the first place."

Again - why? Are you assuming that all of these African-American families (or even the majority of them) are telegraphing their race in their job advertisements? Do you really believe this?

to triviagal

The Sheriff very much appreciates your lesson of the words prejudice, bigot and racist!

Bexie - I too am a middle class white woman. However, I cannot recall anyone ever accusing me of "keeping the black man down" nor can I ever recall the idea that I was a privileged white person keep me from getting an opportunity professionally or personally. While I find the blanket idea that whites are responsible for "keeping the black man down" to be distasteful and untrue, I don't think that it impacts my existance to the same extent that racism in this country affects people of color.

bexie,

So to counter daily accusations that you, personally, keep the black man down, your response is, "Black people are racist too"? And such a statement is important to you? How so? What does such a response accomplish for you? Please explain.

"I am always amazed at people who assume racism no longer exists - yeah, we passed a couple of laws and it went away."

No one said "we passed a couple of laws and it went away." But jeez - we did this in the 1960's, before something like half the readers of the WaPo were born! Do you remember the 60's? Our society has changed dramatically since then. Did all racism go away? No - but we don't have Jim Crow laws any more. We don't lynch people any more. We don't think racism is a joke any more, or treat it as socially acceptable.

Is the world perfect? No. Of course, it's not perfect for anyone (black, asian, latino, gay, evangelical, old, poor, etc.)

I wish all these people who say "I wish some of you could be black for a while" could be something OTHER THAN black for a while - just to see how much of the ordinary, everyday manure everyone else in the world puts up with too.

"And many au pairs these days come from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, which are not exactly bastions of multiracial tolerance."

Armchair Mom, isn't this a prejudicial statement in itself? One cannot assume that just because someone comes from a certain part of the world that they will automatically be racist any more than one can assume that someone from a certain part of the world will pay low wages/mistreat their employees/etc.

"When a nanny agency does not service PG county, they are being racist."

Triviagal, welcome to the board, but I have to ask: how so? There are LOTS of races in PG county. Maybe as a white woman, I was in the minority in my city when I lived there, but I see LOTS of representation for my race and many others in PG county as a whole. How can one be racist against a place? Okay, maybe I'm grasping at straws and playing the semantics game, so I'll be direct because I'm not trying to be snarky. What race(s) was the agency being racist against IN PG county?

Moxiemom, thanks for the welcome back! How was your holiday? Hope everyone here had a great New Year's.

The problems of today will never be solved by constantly looking backwards, blaming, and making assumptions without cause. Perhaps the solution to the problem is to withold judgement, and be forward looking and thinking. This type of hostility and "I'm right, you're wrong" thinking serves no purpose. I don't think the leaders of the civil rights movement would be pleased.

"So to counter daily accusations that you, personally, keep the black man down, your response is, "Black people are racist too"? And such a statement is important to you? How so? What does such a response accomplish for you? Please explain."

I don't know about bexie, but it seems a great way to make the point that charging her with "keeping the black man down" is as ludicrous as charging the idiot saying it with "keeping the white woman down."

Directing that sort of overheated rhetoric against someone just because they are white is offensive and, I would suggest, as racist as anything a white person might say about African-Americans.

First of all, off topic, I want to say that I absolutely hate when people say "ethnic" or "people of color". As far as I know, we all have an ethnicity and a color.

I guess my point is that, in my experience, black people are so often willing to act like victims. Yes, racism still exists - but it exists in ALL DIRECTIONS. Having gone to public schools and therefore having been in a (forced) race-balanced situation, I can absolutely say I have been directly accused of keeping the black man down, as well as having experienced racism from blacks. So by pointing out that we're all racist, it evens the field, in a sick sort of way, makes us all a little bit more the same.

I also find it interesting that moxiemom wrote about being a "privelaged white person". Are you defining privelage as being white, or are you referring to something else (I'm not asking to be snarky, I really am trying to get something out of this conversation).

First of all, off topic, I want to say that I absolutely hate when people say "ethnic" or "people of color". As far as I know, we all have an ethnicity and a color.

I guess my point is that, in my experience, black people are so often willing to act like victims. Yes, racism still exists - but it exists in ALL DIRECTIONS. Having gone to public schools and therefore having been in a (forced) race-balanced situation, I can absolutely say I have been directly accused of keeping the black man down, as well as having experienced racism from blacks. So by pointing out that we're all racist, it evens the field, in a sick sort of way, makes us all a little bit more the same.

I also find it interesting that moxiemom wrote about being a "privelaged white person". Are you defining privelage as being white, or are you referring to something else (I'm not asking to be snarky, I really am trying to get something out of this conversation).

First of all, off topic, I want to say that I absolutely hate when people say "ethnic" or "people of color". As far as I know, we all have an ethnicity and a color.

I guess my point is that, in my experience, black people are so often willing to act like victims. Yes, racism still exists - but it exists in ALL DIRECTIONS. Having gone to public schools and therefore having been in a (forced) race-balanced situation, I can absolutely say I have been directly accused of keeping the black man down, as well as having experienced racism from blacks. So by pointing out that we're all racist, it evens the field, in a sick sort of way, makes us all a little bit more the same.

I also find it interesting that moxiemom wrote about being a "privelaged white person". Are you defining privelage as being white, or are you referring to something else (I'm not asking to be snarky, I really am trying to get something out of this conversation).

First of all, off topic, I want to say that I absolutely hate when people say "ethnic" or "people of color". As far as I know, we all have an ethnicity and a color.

I guess my point is that, in my experience, black people are so often willing to act like victims. Yes, racism still exists - but it exists in ALL DIRECTIONS. Having gone to public schools and therefore having been in a (forced) race-balanced situation, I can absolutely say I have been directly accused of keeping the black man down, as well as having experienced racism from blacks. So by pointing out that we're all racist, it evens the field, in a sick sort of way, makes us all a little bit more the same.

I also find it interesting that moxiemom wrote about being a "privelaged white person". Are you defining privelage as being white, or are you referring to something else (I'm not asking to be snarky, I really am trying to get something out of this conversation).

Bexie

"Because every day of MY life, I'm constantly being accused of keeping the black man down."

Wow, every day!! How is this being done?

"I don't think the leaders of the civil rights movement would be pleased."

Unfortunately, too many of the ones who have survived (like Sharpton and Jackson) have sold out and turned the movement into an industry.

Ack! Sorry for the triple post!

1:52 anon poster - the same way everyone else experiences racism on a daily basis.

It always annoys me when people tell other people to "get over" their experience of racism.

It's like a man telling a woman to "get over" her fear of walking alone at night or her uneasiness at being alone in an elevator with a man giving off weird vibes.

Men just don't experience the world like women do (and vice versa), just like whites don't experience the world like blacks do.

I would also argue that economic and education status stratify people in this country, both minority and white. Who would I have an easier time "connecting" with? An educated, middle class black woman or a poor, uneducated white woman?

As an educated white middle class woman, I think it would be the educated black middle class woman. Education and similar "economic" status can provide a strong, shared background too.

I admit, I sometimes feel uneasy and worried about appearing pompous around my relatives who are not college educated and are not as well off financially. Also with a sitter like that as well (she didn't last long for other reasons).

To Bizarre:

I have no fear in identifying who I am. I am an African American working mother of two children in daycare. I have read many of the comments, including yours, which have displayed an utter lack of appreciation for the historical, cultural and racial issues that the NYTimes article highlights. Some of the mothers and fathers who were profiled were denied equal access to a form of childcare simply because of their race. In Maryland, where I live, state regulations prohibit state licensed childcare providers from engaging in the very discrimination that these nannies/child care agencies engaged in. That said, good child care for working parents is a basic, human need - the issues discussed are not "trivial" and unequal access to childcare is not a "normal annoyance" (maybe if there was a big sign with "WHITES ONLY" plastered like they did at bathrooms and waterfountains in the old days, you'd get it) I only hope that other people have gained some insight by reading about the blatant prejudice that these families face and know that in 2006 and 2007, racism (even couched as "past experience" ) is alive and well . . .

Does anyone know if there is anywhere you can get the NY times article without having to pay $5 for it? (I'm not cheap, I seriously don't have $5 to pay for this article).

Do you have to pay for it? I just registered for free and can read all NYTimes articles.

"I admit, I sometimes feel uneasy and worried about appearing pompous around my relatives who are not college educated and are not as well off financially."

Oof, Rebecca, I get that too. I wonder if it's harder for non-whites than it is for you and me? I have actually considered avoiding a professional degree just to keep from widening the chasm between them and me; I wonder if people of other races have too.

"By the way jokesters, Nannies are not only for the rich, I know a slightly upper middle class family with 5 kids who has an immigrant nanny rather than spend $5k per month on daycare."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/asia_pac_filipino_nanny/html/3.stm

"...I also employ a helper. It's so ironic that I take care of another child here [in Hong Kong], while somebody else is taking care of my children back home [in the Philippines]..."

"Triviagal - remember the morons are not going to stop breeding - you might want to have a child just to make sure they don't outnumber us."

OTOH, Triviagal may be concerned that she wouldn't raise a child well enough (I can relate to that - I wouldn't be a good mom either). Having a child to stop the morons from outnumbering us doesn't work if that child is raised poorly enough to become one of the morons!

foamgnome - did you use the link up above? I clicked on the link in this article, and even though I am registered with NY Times, it is demanding I pay.

I'm having a real hard time here with people saying "you just don't understand." Frankly, what you're calling "blatant" and "obvious" appears neither when seen from the outside - especially when it's black on black. Especially when I can sit here and say, in all honestly, "yeah, that's happened to me, too" - and I'm not even black!

"Again - why? Are you assuming that all of these African-American families (or even the majority of them) are telegraphing their race in their job advertisements? Do you really believe this?"

to anon at 1:37. The majority of families seeking nannies identify the location of the job, and if that information indicates that the job is in a predominately African-American area, certain applicants surmise that the family is African-American and reject the opportunity to interview. For ease of reference, let's call this behavior "Nanny Redlining". Sure, one explanation is geographical convenience. A nanny living in Falls Church may not want to schlep to PG County. However, it's naive to ignore the other likely explanation, that prospective nannies' choices of interview opportunities are highly influenced by perceived prestige and that some nannies may believe that there's more prestige in working for an affluent white family than there is in working for an affluent African-American family. The nanny marketplace, like high-end retail and other high-end service markets, turns on prestige more than pay rate. It's significantly more prestigious to work for a family who lives in Potomac (and playing the odds is likely white) than to work for a family who lives in PG County (similarly, the odds are that the family is African-American). When that nanny goes on to apply for subsequent positions, her reference from that family living in Potomac likely will carry more weight with the next family than the reference from the family living in PG County, as well. For comparison, in the retail context, both management and sales professionals prefer to work for Neimans at a lower pay rate than for Sears at a higher pay rate. That Neimans reference on the resume will lend lasting cache. The Sears reference lends the opposite.

Paying 10 - 20% over market may lure some additional applicants, but not many, and why the heck should African-Americans have to pay more for the same childcare services then everyone else? or do you recommend that they should move to lily-white neighborhoods to avoid Nanny Red-lining?

I, too, would like to hear bexie's response on this. Although she may not be personally responsible for racism, she can benefit from it in numerous ways. It's called the granting of white privilege -- a subtle form of prejudice that gives a person an advantage because that person is white.

I'm having a real hard time here with people saying "you just don't understand." Frankly, what you're calling "blatant" and "obvious" appears neither when seen from the outside - especially when it's black on black. Especially when I can sit here and say, in all honestly, "yeah, that's happened to me, too" - and I'm not even black!

I think you click on to the second link. follow up discussion, then click related article and I think the article pops up if you are registered with NY times. It may ask you to log in to NYTimes. I hate that some of these links are not to the article directly.

I don't know about bexie, but it seems a great way to make the point that charging her with "keeping the black man down" is as ludicrous as charging the idiot saying it with "keeping the white woman down."

No, a great way to make the point is to say, "No, I am not keeping you down. That's ludicrous." If you just respond that blacks are also racist, you get into tit-for-tat. No (productive) conversation will be going on there.

bexie, thanks for your response. I've experienced racism in public and private school, college, graduate school, and, to a lesser degree, in law school. I'm no one's victim, and I don't know many black people who are quick to cry victim. We all just want to live our lives without a bunch of racial drama.

Here's another question: How was your statement evening the playing field? To minimize any guilt, intimidation or resentment you were feeling? Did it make you feel any better?

"I, too, would like to hear bexie's response on this. Although she may not be personally responsible for racism, she can benefit from it in numerous ways. It's called the granting of white privilege -- a subtle form of prejudice that gives a person an advantage because that person is white. "

Okay, people - that's enough for me. We're now blaming people for stuff they never did. If that's not a recipe for fostering hate, I don't know what is.

Good night . . . good luck . . . here's hoping you grow up and learn to play nice someday

I would again ask Bizarre to read the article which documents many cases of nannies discriminating against African American clients due to the negative impressions they have of black people and explain to me how and why this is yet another example of people crying wolf.

I think that one thing we can all agree on is that NO one is as oppressed as poor poor Bexie. I sympathize with you. I can't seem to go anywhere without random black people jumping out and accusing me of holding them back. I don't go anywhere without an ipod and some running shoes just in case I get chased by an angry mob (LA riots anyone?).

"No, a great way to make the point is to say, "No, I am not keeping you down. That's ludicrous." If you just respond that blacks are also racist, you get into tit-for-tat. No (productive) conversation will be going on there."

Sorry, but that's just ANOTHER great way to make the point - not the only one. Or do you really want to eliminate sarcasm as a legitimate form of communication? (And if so, just what percentage of this blog would you toss out?)

Hey, thanks, Wow! Your last comment provides a great example of just how important sarcasm is to this blog.

"I think that one thing we can all agree on is that NO one is as oppressed as poor poor Bexie. I sympathize with you. I can't seem to go anywhere without random black people jumping out and accusing me of holding them back. I don't go anywhere without an ipod and some running shoes just in case I get chased by an angry mob (LA riots anyone?)."

(Or was that snark - I'm so easily confused)

dirrtysw - what did you want to see my response on? (Again, not trying to be snarky, sometimes it's hard to tell what people are referring to). Were you talking about white privelage? I'm not denying that it exists. I am denying that I have ever KNOWINGLY directly benefitted from it. I went to public schools, I went to a public university (where I was DENIED scholarships based on my race, and now have $54k in student loans to show for it, and currently pay a ridiculous $510 per month on these loans for the next 15 years when I only take home $1400 a month... but I do admit that is a WHOLE other topic). I think it is important to note that white privelage does NOT apply to everyone. We've all heard of white trash, haven't we? But the white privelage is just as bad as the opposite of this article - black people who will only associate (privately, in commerce) with people who are also black. In order to grow, we need to understand this topic from all points of view. Maybe you