First

"Obviously, the topic should be something related to balancing your life."

Um, where's the balance issue?

Thank you for this article that lets us know how to balance telling your kids the "whole truth" and keeping them "safe" from the whole truth.

I'm a diehard Democrat and even I thought this blog went a little too far. Regardless of whether or not I agree with Bush's politics (I don't for the record), I think it is important to teach children to respect our leaders. And I'm not sure what the point was in writing a blog about teaching our children about 9/11 and throwing in using the f-word for Bush and Israel and Palestine. I mean - did the 8 year old really ask about that??

As a parent of children were are or were once 8, both highly intelligent children, neither one would say they hate the president unless they heard me say it or I told them to say it. Sorry, but age 8 is not developmentally ready to reason current events as is portrayed in this essay today. I am a Democrat too and I think the Bush administration is a failure, but I agree with the others that this blog goes too far. (I don't agree that you have to "respect" Bush. This isn't a theocracy or dictatorship)

I'm sixth!!!

What does Israel and the Palestinians have to do with 9/11? We were attacked by Islamist extremists who hate America. Those who have brought the Israeli and Palestinian issue into this discussion as the cause of 9/11 are the same ones who have said that the Jews knew about the plot...blah blah blah

I think its terrific to talk to kids about real stuff instead of hiding it from them. You don't have to give all the scoop like the flight crew having their throats cut, but a basic explanation is in order. When we hide things and shield them from big stuff (death, war) is what makes things really scary for kids. I'd hate my kids to grow up in this utopian suburb not realizing that they are part of a greater world and they are incredibly lucky to have the comforts that they have. If I worry about telling my children about people starving in Sudan, imagine the explaining the parents in Sudan have to do.

Could it be that the child's view is shaped by the parent's (objective and correct) statement to him that "...it's gotten worse since September 11. That we lost a chance to make it better"?

Assuming you agree with that statement, it is then hard to take issue with the child's desire to use the f-word, given what the author describes as "Sean's black-and-white view of the universe."

I don't agree with the author "let(ting) it go". I think he should have talked to the boy about his anger. But, in the real world where kids this age are reading about 9/11, I think it would be ridiculous and utterly harmful to the child to ask the child to suppress his feelings of anger/resentment towards the administration, the terrorists or whomever else the child has a visceral response to.

It is ok for the child to have emotions. Just help the child reason through them and deal with them.

Editorially, this blog is usually filled with hand-wringing over why we are trapped in these gender roles in society (e.g., lack of SAHDs). If we don't help children express their feelings then deal with them, all we will do is reinforce those silly gender roles -- for boys, suppress your feelings and seethe to yourself.

Gee Steve, I had a hard time figuring out you were an editor at the Washington Post after reading the following:

"I told him that we didn't know how many people hated us before that day. That it's gotten worse since September 11. That we lost a chance to make it better.

He said he hated President Bush. "He doesn't care about the people of this country and he doesn't want to hear what people have to say. I even tried to help him when I sent him an e-mail and he didn't respond back to me," said my son.

"I would use the f-word if I saw him," Sean said. I had spoken to him about not using that word before; this time I just let it go. "

I couldn't be more politically different then you, but I teach my children that hate is a very strong word - we don't use it lightly. I think Bill Clinton was the worst President that walked this earth but I don't tell my children I hate him, I hate what he did to this country. I think you left your child with the impression that we deserved what we got on 9/11 and I think that is sad and disgusting. Raising a child to hate can be dangerous.

I have an 8 year old too. We have not sheilded her from the truth. We don't get into the politics of 9/11 but we have told her what horrible people terrorists are, how they prey on innocents and no one in this country is to blame for what they did to us.

Perhaps Leslie was trying to stir things up after yesterday's mediocre topic, but today's blog will deteriorate into a political discussion on terrorism, the war in Iraq and President Bush, not how much information to share with our kids.

Again, just like yesterdays's HPV discusssion, some people don't want to broach topics with their kids - whether it be sex or terrorism. Giving kids information can be a good thing, even if it is hard. Life is not all sunshine and lollipops, nor is it bleak and dark - and learning to "hate the President" when you are 8 sounds like Steve waited too long to talk to his son.

I'm a little confused too. The 8 year old had never heard of 9/11 but was e-mailing policy prescriptions to the President? About what exactly? Foreign policy? Solutions to the social security crisis? How could he have been hermetically sealed in a bubble and given precious little information about the outside world -- and simultaneously emerge as a full-blown adult policy analyst? What exactly were his opinions about PResident Bush, the Republican Party and the current events based on -- if he was ignorant of such crucial events? Was he reading the newspaper? LIstening to NPR? Or just his dad?

You son knows the "F" word and how to use it. Do you teach your son the "N" word also?

Maybe a discussion of how some words are inappropiate and a discussion of basic respect for people is also needed.

8 years old? sad.

I don't get it-what does this: "He asked about Palestinians and Israelis. He asked, "How come everyone hates us?" have to do with 9/11? Did you explain that the majority of the hijackers were from an allied country - Saudi Arabia?

Fred, I agree with you entirely. While kids do indeed know the f-bomb, they also need to be told not to use it.

And respect is for the office, not necessarily for the person holding it. I worry this child is being taught to not have any respect at all. Just wait until he is a teen!

Further, I spent a lot of time teaching my kids to think for themselves, even at an early age, rather than parrot their parents (say that out loud three time real fast, I dare you).

This blog entry bothers me for its blatant political slant. Then again, it is DC.

excuse me? I don't think everyone hates us. I heard that Saddam Hussein's last communication included the statement that he didn't want the Iraqi people to hate the citizens of the agressor countries, just the leadership. I thought that was huge and discussed it with my older kids. Sorry, I keep it light for the 10 year old. He remembers 9/11. He was in kindergarten. He just knows bad guys attacked NYC. That's enough for his age.

I teach respect for leaders with whom I disagree. I think respect is an important value to instill in our children for many reasons.

Cmac, somebody need not be a WaPo editor to believe the following:

"I told him that we didn't know how many people hated us before that day. That it's gotten worse since September 11. That we lost a chance to make it better."

The polls that our soldiers take of the Iraqi populace shows they feel the same.

Yes, this will degenerate into a political rock-fight if we let it. But this blog isn't the home of the passive, accepting liberal. We aren't Alan Combs. We fight back here. We could just all agree to a truce now....

"I teach respect for leaders with whom I disagree."

Why? I have never understood this. The most important thing we as human beings can do is question authority and the events around us. I personally think Bush is a idiot and I have absolutely no respect for him or this administration.

Respect is to be EARNED. Kids can be taught that, but to not blindly say 'okay-dokey' to authority figures.

to anon at 8:36
Agreeing with someone is not the same as respect. Jeesh...basic social manners 101 here. I'm curious how you could possibly teach kids to respect themselves using your definition.

Using your son as a pawn to push your own political agenda? Sad.

Don't want to be around when your kids are teenagers. And certainly would not want to teach them!

I think it is also important to talk about how the US didn't realize how many people supported us. We had world-wide support and help. I thought one of the big lessons from 9-11 is that we can count on, in times of great strife, a lot of people, whether around the corner or around the world.

'The most important thing we as human beings can do is question authority and the events around us.'

Of course! I meant that we should question and disagree respectfully. Perhaps people will listen and begin to agree with someone who argues respectfully.

I think Bush is an idiot too. I didn't vote for him, but this country did. That's the system.

You really think an 8-year-old doesn't know the F word and how to use it? An 8-year-old goes to a school with 12-year-olds, who probably pepper their conversations with it when teachers aren't around. I knew that word at 8, and it certainly wasn't from my parents.

What a wonderful job you've done teaching your child to respect our country's leaders.

Heh heh.

I rode the public school bus. Trust me, I knew LOTS of words...

Ouch! So much negativity in these responses. Isn't it good that Steve was able to talk with his son about a hugely difficult topic. My daughter's five. She was 9 weeks old on Sept. 11. I haven't talked to her about because I don't think a kindergartner's ready to grasp the scope of the world we live in. But Sean, at 8, is starting to. It's a difficult learning process. Things will need to be talked through. (And I knew the f-word in 3rd grade, too, in my cozy Md. suburb in 1973. Don't delude yourselves.)

This blog entry is naive on so many levels. I'm sorry, but trying to keep your son from finding out about 9/11? I wanted to make sure all of my children - including the youngest, who was not quite 5 when it happened - understood the who, what, and why.

As indicated by my nickname, I was raised as the son of an Army NCO. He retired when I was a senior in high school after 23 years as a Master Sergeant. He and my mother, a school teacher, taught all of us to always look for the truth, and to live for our values.

My father served for 12 months on the Korea DMZ (62-63) and for 14 months in South Vietnam (66-67). He believed in the US Army and his troops. Because of that he was very quick to stand up for what he believed in, regardless of the cost. He allowed the three of us children to skip school to attend his court-martial in 1971 in Germany. He was the First Sergeant of HQ Company of his outfit, and he disobeyed a direct order from his commanding officer that he considered to be illegal. He did so knowing that he would be court-martialed, but did so to make a point - stand up for what you believe in. He was acquitted at the court-martial when the board agreed that it was an illegal order, and he wanted to make sure that we children understood what was going on. I was 11 at the time; my brother was 9 and my sister was 12. He considered us to be plenty old enough to understand right vs wrong.

My father only "hated" four people in his life - William Westmoreland, Robert McNamara, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon. In all four cases, it was because he believed that they didn't care about the troops in the Army; that they were willing to let young men die for their own political causes. Nonetheless, I was always taught to respect the office, because the organization, if its strong, can recover from an individual in power for a time.

(My fondest memento of my father is the picture of Gen Westmoreland pinning the Silver Star on him. If you want to see an SFC scowling at a four-star general while standing at attention in front of him, that's it.)

Wow, this is so off-topic for this blog. Okay, I get the picture; I'm going away now and will be back tomorrow to see what topic is being discussed.

I have no judgements here. It's a very hard thing to explain to a child; I think we can all agree on that. And because it's difficult (and because each child is different), I think we can agree that there is no one "right" way to explain it. I think the author did a fine job of explaining it to his son. And it's important to keep in mind that we all influence our children's learning based on our own biases and beliefs. None of us can be completely divorced from our beliefs to raise our children to be completely impartial. And because the book is being read in school, the child will hear lots of different view points from other kids and teachers.

His kid will be fine, no matter what some of you are saying. He will become a teen and will question his parents and will evaluate his own beliefs in college.

to Oh, Please and others...

If these comments about know the F word were directed at me, I say sure, 8 yr olds know it. But please read the balance of my comment.

Maybe a discussion of how some words are inappropiate and a discussion of basic respect for people is also needed.

When I was 8, I had already started an environmentalist group based on information I learned from books like "Silent Spring." I also read the newspaper everyday. My parents were, and still are, staunch Republicans who thought I was crazy. BUT they allowed me to soak up any knowledge I could from all sides of any issue, and now I work for an auditing body in the government. I'm glad my parents allowed me certain freedoms... I think kids are more savvy than people give them credit for. I think kids have the creativity to change the world for the better, and sheltering them from the world will just hinder this.

Army Brat,

I agree with your dad on RMN.

Seems like another attempt to spin things against Bush. After 9-11 everybody cheered him when he spoke about winning the war on terrorism. Now everybody boos him. Looks like the bleeding hearts are going to let the terrorists win again. They have gotten really good at beating us with a war of attrition - just keep fighting and the liberal press will swing public opinion against the American troops and the US government will put it's tail between it's legs and run away. That is exactly what is happening now - it's just a matter of time until we run away, again.

Then the terrorists can regroup and attack again - in America - again. Just wait. It will happen.

As far as Steve Fox's parenting skills are concerned - no comment. Dad told me if I didn't have anything good to say I shouldn't say anything at all.

What is so strange about a kid being interested in the world and politics? When I was 9 in the early 80s I wrote letters to President Regan asking him to please, please not blow up the world with a nuke. I didn't grow up in a particularly political household, but one that watched the news and read the paper daily. I was 9 - I could and did read, and drew my own conclusions. Being that age can be filled with anxiety about the world you can't control, and this 8 year old may be expressing that. For the record, when my son is old enough to speak I won't allow him to use the F work in my presence under any circumstance.

I'm a fifth grade teacher. We studied elections and democracy last fall during the lead up to November. The kids picked the candidate for whom they wanted to vote, split themselves into political parties and debated, and also wrote papers on why their candidate should be elected. We had local candidates in (both sides) and they presented their views to the class and then the kids held a mock election. (Every candidate called to see how they'd done, BTW.)

I have to tell you that it was blatantly obvious to me that the parents of some of these kids are very open about their politics. I heard things coming out of my 5th graders' mouths that I knew could only be direct quotes from their parents. Parents, your children listen to you MUCH MORE than you realize. I know that most of us want to raise our children with our beliefs and values, but rational discourse about the other side(s) is not a bad thing.

Steve,

Thank you for an excellent BLOG. My son (he's almost 7) doesn't know about 9/11 either. He was a baby when it happened. And he's scared enough about "bad people" in our neighborhood that I'm hesitant to teach have him know about 9/11 right now. Although he does know about the Iraq war (in Scouts we're putting together care packages for the soldiers), and he's worried if something like a war could happen right here in America. For right now, we're telling him no...that we're safe and sound, because he has to live, and function, and go to school...and be a kid. I'm sure at some point 9/11 will come up...and when it does, I hope we can have a discussion like you did with your son. For the record, I think President Bush is a lousy president, and I have not been hesitant to share that at the dinner table. That's my opinion...and I don't think it's a bad thing for my son to know about.

Thank again for an excellent guest blog!

Let me guess - you work for (or at least are an active member of) the RNC. You've got their anti-Democratic rhetoric down cold.

These quotes are obviously made up. That paragraph about Bush is so ridiculously NOT a statement from an 8 yr old who didn't even know about 9/11. He emails the president his ideas regarding 9/11 and Israel and Palestine? yeah, ok...

This blog is awful. Hate is an awful word- a "bad" word in my house. And letting it go that he would use the f-word toward Bush is not a good example. Why not teach him to construct an argument on a rational basis- not by throwing the f bomb around??

Nowhere in the conversation did you include the East v West struggle, religious zealotry. It's not just about them hating us- it's a deeply rooted cultural and religious based problem.

And it SHOULD NOT be shoved off onto Bush's shoulders.I do not like what Bush is doing for this country at all- but I also do'nt blame him for the hijackers' plans. Do you blame Clinton for WTC 1 or USS Cole? Nope- i don't hear people say they hate CLinton for that. Why not give him the whole history then? Don't picka nd choose for YOUR liking.

Just horrible.

I think that we are gonna' hit 500 comments today!

One more thought -- remember that your children are watching you. If you are intolerant, they will be intolerant. If you hate Bush, BELIEVE ME, they'll know it and they'll hate Bush because they know you do and they think (even if they don't say it) that you're right. The other day I heard a 2nd grade girl telling her friends that boys only want one thing. That girl's mother is going through a particularly horrible divorce thanks to her husband's public infidelity.

Children should not be a billboard for your politics.

I am not getting involved in the political portion of this debate- mostly because I found other parts of the peice so touching.

I am not married nor do I have kids but I dread the day I have will have to tell them about the day Grandpa's office got blown up.

to Teacher - very well said

No, President Bush didn't cause 9/11 and when he responded he did an excellent job. That was absolutely a high point in his presidency. We had a common enemy, he was strong and decisive about his response...we went after Osama (although not successfully), and I truly believe as much as I personally do not like President Bush that he's kept us safe from terrorism.

It's when he led us into war in Iraq under the mistaken impression that weapons of mass distruction existed that things started to unravel for him. The rest of the world wasn't with us. They wanted to give sanctions more of an opportunity to work (and they were working). But President Bush and his advisors were willing to put America as a country on the line and go into Iraq with England as our ally, and few other countries in our camp. Did he have a motive based on the fact that Sadam had tried to kill his dad? Were their oil interests in their since Cheney and other top officials had personal oil interests? We'll never know.

We were under the mistaken impression that we could fight a quick (shock and awe) air war, with very little need to fight on the ground. And we didn't anticipate the the aftermath when we dismantled the existing government (no matter how good or bad it was)...and now we're entangled in a civil war with no clear plan on how to resolve it. In some ways, we've made the world unsafer...we've created a vacuum in one of the most volatile regions of the world. And in President Bush's wisdom to be "decisive" and not listen to what other world leaders have to say, we've deteriorated international relations for America along the way.

And while all of this was happening, there have been a lot of domestic issues that have gone unattended. We've cut taxes and racked up huge amounts of debt based on the war. In short...it's a mess!

Steve Fox was a Washington Post editor -- do you think he reported for all those 10 years with the same agenda he seems to push in this blog -- and on his child. Does this make for credible journalism?

Well, potentially useful blog topic, already degenerating into traditional DC partisan bickering. How/when/what do you tell your kids about big scary world events? My daughter is 5 1/2, and this fall in kindergarten the issue came up, but the message got twisted somewhere along the way -- when I picked her up that day, she was all excited because, she said, her teacher had told her that something really good had happened 5 years ago on that day, but that she'd have to ask her parents about it, so she was hugely excited for me to tell her what the wonderful thing was. I had about 5 seconds to figure out what to say, what not to say, how to say it, etc.

I ended up telling her that it wasn't a good day, it was a very bad day, because some very bad people hurt a lot of Americans. She kept pressing for details, so I ultimately told her they blew up a building. She wanted to understand why; I can't really remember what I said, but I think it started with bad people, then when she kept asking I explained that they were very, very angry at America and wanted to hurt us. But when she wanted to know how, I changed the subject -- right now, she adores flying, thinks it's the most exciting fun thing in the world, and so I just couldn't bring myself to tell her about the airplanes.

I'd also suggest lightening up on Steve a little about the f-word. The blog entry made it clear that he doesn't allow his son to use that word. But I think you also have to read your kid -- sometimes, when they're really upset, dealing with really scary things and strong emotions, they need to blow off steam, and the best thing you can do as a parent is to give them the time and space to work through it, not jump in with instant criticism. When the emotions have calmed down, then you can go back and discuss the higher-level, big kid stuff -- like respecting the office even if you don't like the current occupant, acceptable language, etc.

We lived on an air force base on 9/11 and my sons were 8 and 5 years old. They certainly knew what had happened - the base was locked down and they were told at school that unless I made it back within an hour that I wouldn't be able to return to the base and be at home with them. My husband was TDY at another base and couldn't fly home, even after they were released from lock down there. He drove 21 hours to get home to us. I was 7 months pregnant and fighting preterm labor. The medical care through the base was closed and to go off base to the hospital again meant we would be unable to return home. The schools were closed. Every building's sign was covered so it was not obvious which buildings had children in them. Armed guards patrolled even more. We were literally and figuratively imprisoned in our home for 3 days. The boys definitely remember that.

My husband was later deployed to Iraq for 4 months, and he was lucky because this was the shortest time of anyone we know. But 4 months of experiencing war changed him forever. The children heard about the war and wanted and craved all of the information they could get. Some to reassure them but also to fight the fear of the unknown. The boys remember this too.

To have tried to hide either of these events from my children would have been impossible. To find a way to explain things that reassured them to the extent possible but didn't give them some false sense of security was my challenge. If we hide 9/11, if we minimize this awful war and the effect it has on countless American families, if we are quiet so that we give the appearance of supporting the war or the President, then we are abdicating out jobs as parents to teach our children the skills their generation may need to avoid similar messes in the future. My children are intelligent and caring and very aware of world events. They travel internationally and know very well the hostility that has been directed at Americans. The blog was good - and important. We need to figure out ways to address 9/11 and Iraq so that our children's generation can avoid repeating our mistakes.

Sorry for the length, but the comments today have hit a nerve.

There are many ways to discuss tragic events with small children and while they need to be given age appropriate information they still need information because they will hear it elsewhere - even preschool. We own "The Man Who Walked Between the Towers" - a children's book about an actual man who walked a tightrope(made of cable) between the twin towers while they were being built. The book was written pst 9/11, so it include a reference to them not being there any more. I have use it to share just a little with my 4 year old, because yes kids do pick up on what you say and the media you consume. NPR has promped more than a few questions.

I also feel for the author. It's hard to correct your child when they make inappropriate comments when you know you feel the exact same way. Many people feel a lot of anger, frustration, and sadness towards the current administration. And not everyone was behind the admin and thought things were well handled on 9/11, even in the moment.

Of course this has turned partisan- the blog itself was partisan!

Leslie and the author clearly knew what they were getting into today...

It depends. You have to know your own child, what they can handle...and when they can handle it.

Wow! I expected some feedback....

What I've always liked about blogs is the ability to have a conversation. So, here's an attempt.

The column was indeed meant to point out the power of words. I'm a bad parent for not jumping all over him for using the word? Maybe. But, as some of you have mentioned, he was expressing himself in a rather powerful way.

Does he have respect for others, including leaders? Yes. He has great respect for soldiers but seems confused as to why they are dying. Did he draw these conclusions because I go around the house ranting about Bush all day? Hardly. No, we don't live at DNC headquarters. That was what struck me most about the comment. He came to this conclusion on his own -- based on his own reading of the newspaper, watching television, absorbing the world around him. Believe it or not.

Am I biased in saying the U.S. lost an opportunity to make things better? Well, there are certainly those who will make that argument. But, seems there is enough fuel in these comments -- no need to get into a political debate as to the tremendous international upgrade in the reputation of the U.S. since 9/11.

Thanks for reading.

Steve

Nice topic.

My thinking has evolved on this. Initially I shielded my kids from exposure/influence on news. We get all of our news from our own online reading (mainly the post) and from a sedate voice-only NPR in the background (though we've occasionally had to snap that off, as we awake groggily to some story about, say, that 16yo girl in the Warren Jeffs cult testifying about the first night of her forced marriage . . . ack!) Our kids are aware that we read and listen to news, but they don't get that vivid immersion into the graphic, violent, or hateful/confrontational emotion-stirring that TV coverage brings --- its drumbeat of urgency and drama can paralyze adults, much less kids.

We had also totally refrained from any political comment in kid earshot, figuring that young kids can't think critically on political issues and will just proudly parrot their parents' views, and that it's an abuse of power to indoctrinate onto one partisan side people who can't yet think the issues through for themselves. I'm happy just to lay the foundations for critical thinking generally, then let them come to their own opinions when they're old enough.

But we were really shocked when during the 2004 campaign my daughter's 2nd grade class had a mock election (we heard about it after the fact). At first I thought it was a horrible idea, that any opinions these kids had must just be ill-informed echoes of their parents, and that by forcing a popularity poll of their opinions it would just marginalize some kids into trying to defend an opinion they had no real basis to defend, other than my-dad-says-so-and-he's really-smart! But it seemed to turn out ok --- the kids are already doing internet research at school starting in 2nd grade, so they had some foundations. I asked my dd whom she voted for and why, and her reasoning, though simplistic, was sound (she voted against Bush because he started a war and he didn't listen to people). When I asked her how she'd learned about that, she said she'd heard people talking about it on the radio. (and before you say that NPR news is indoctrination, let's end it civilly and agree to disagree, my long experience of it as a balanced and articulate source for many reasoned points of view is unlikely to be dissuaded by partisan bluster). I also told her that these issues were complicated and often caused people to have angry arguments, and that smart and honest people could still have different opinions.

At that point she asked what our opinions were and we did tell them to her. More important than telling her whom we supported was talking about the character flaws that led us to our opinion, how we felt the president wasn't being a responsible leader, wasn't doing the hard work to learn and to make thoughtful decisions, to have an open mind and to treat all Americans as equally valued, and to be honest in evaluating the whole truth and making fair and honest arguments. And that opened a door, because she did develop some strong opinions and started expressing them to us. Mostly what that mock election did was set her up for a big disappointment, when the country failed to vote the way her elementary class did!

Later her third grade class had to do a writing assignment about Katrina, again something that surprised me because we don't expose our kids to endless news of natural disaster, to wallow in images/stories of human tragedy and to worry what might befall them. Before that she was just aware of Katrina due to fund-raisers her school had, one for cash and one for books to restock a sister school library. Supporting that only required telling her a very simple fact, a hurricane happened and destroyed many people's houses and schools and they need help and money to build them back. But for the writing assignment we had to find real news coverage for her to read, to form a basis to answer questions --- fortunately the Washington Post Kidspost pages were quite good for that.

I've blathered on enough. Even if you try to shelter your kids from news, it will come around and find you, if nowhere else than from the schools. But the schools and sites like the kidspost also let kids start processing news in a meaningful way that's not just parent-indoctrination . . . And I know others disagree with me about how much is indoctrination and how much is teaching the parents' values . . . there's room for both and as in everything else we all hope and trust parents recognize their great power and don't abuse it, in shaping their kids' opinions and reasoning skills . . .

I would lighten up on Steve about the f-word thing. His son's comments indicate that he (the son) knows full well the gravity and strength of the word. I don't know that it matters that he wants to apply it to George Bush -- he certainly wouldn't be the first, though perhaps among the younger.

I'm torn because a part of me does feel the position of president should be respected regardless of who's president, but on the other hand, there have definitely been men who are not worthy of respect who've held the office. So I'm not sure how to deal with that subject when it comes up. I'm sure I'll figure it out, just like other posters have done.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Anybody who thinks that kids' ideas about politics come only from their parents is naive.

All kids these days are exposed to multiple sources of information, from TV to computer games to discussions in class to -- most especially -- other kids. This is much more the case today than when I was a kid -- and it was definitely true back then.

I was nine during the '64 election, and I clearly remember kids in my neighborhood back then taking sides; in fact, one local group of slightly-older kids surrounded my friends and me and wouldn't let us go until we said we were for Goldwater.

I have no idea what Steve Fox has or has not said to his son about Bush, but immediately blaming Fox for his son's views makes no sense to me, given what I know -- and what we all should know -- about kids.

Does anyone here remember the late Samantha Smith, the little girl who was about 8 or so when he wrote to the Russian leader about peace? Sometimes, children can be precocious about some things and blissfully ignorant about others. Hence the last two sentences of the blog today.

FWIW, I thought the f-word was referring to a curse. It's obvious that these days it's beginning to mean something else.

Also, can we please not let this discussion degenerate into political snarling?

'About President Bush'

very well said, thank you. I think Bush's
problem as a leader is that he ignores opinions of those who don't agree with him (or Cheney).

Of course this has turned partisan- the blog itself was partisan!

Leslie and the author clearly knew what they were getting into today...

---

I agree with Partisanship. Leslie and the author write for a living -- they know what they are doing. I'm sure Steve is capable of writing a blog about how to appropriately discuss 9/11 with his son --without even delving into politics. He chose to obscure the message about discussing tragedy with a child.

Dotted wrote:

"Further, I spent a lot of time teaching my kids to think for themselves, even at an early age, rather than parrot their parents (say that out loud three time real fast, I dare you)."

I spend quite a bit of time on this too, it should not be a conservative or liberal issue - just a parenting issue. My kids come home saying all kinds of junk - about entertainers, politicians, Redskins football players (there is quite a bit of disagreement among 8 year olds about players strengths and weaknesses, funny but true), anything under the sun. Parents have to be a filter not an indoctrinator. Teaching values, morals and basic respect go a long way, eventually they can filter things on their own.

To Leslie: this is deteriorating into a political discussion, not sure if that is what you intended. If you want to debate the war, 9/11, President Bush - just do so rather than mask it in guest blog on teaching children about historic events. Another option might be allowing someone from the other end of the political spectrum as a counterpoint.

Army Brat: great post and you have a great father.

"Nowhere in the conversation did you include the East v West struggle, religious zealotry. It's not just about them hating us- it's a deeply rooted cultural and religious based problem."

This also struck me as irresponsible.
The only thing his son walked away with was that a lot of people hate the US and planes were hijacked and 5000 people died.

The author plainly admits that his son thinks in a very black and white manner. Hmm- just like Bush!! So he's fine with absolutes as long as it's directed against Bush??

a huge problem with his presidency is his black and white way of thinking.

A much more useful tool for our kids is to see that there is no absolute- start those reasoning skills. It's not always X or Y- sometimes it's XYZ all mixed together. Critical thinking skills are much more valuable than "I hate Bush- f*cker"

Talk about breeding INTOLERANCE!

I, too, am a Democrat with some pretty strong anti-Bush leanings, but this blog is not only absurd but I fear that it sends the wrong message to the next generation. 9-11 was a terrible day, and one that I hope will be remembered and learned from, but it is very important for parents to get a hold on their emotions before they talk to their children about topics with this much emotional weight. Channeling your fear and hatred to your children will do nothing to change our nation or how the rest of the world views us, and it will never lead to the "better" world the blogger wishes for.

I also thought the F-word was refering to a curse. Does it mean something else in this context? I can't imagine that he was uttering an anti-gay epitath.

i too would like to request that both sides of the debate step back from the edge & breathe. let's look at the larger question - how do we tell children about the awful things that happen in the world? how do you balance the desire to keep them safe from the ugliness out in the world vs keeping them informed? how much of the "truth" do you tell them?

i remember watching the news when i was about 10 years old. my friends thought that i was strange because i wanted to know what was going on. they weren't interested in the news in the slightest. anybody remember when jim vance first came to channel 4? now, he's the stately elder newscaster....

Jokester your last couple of jokes are not funny.

Bravo, Stacey! Well said, and well handled. I feel for what you went through.
I agree it's an important topic. It's also true that kids hear -- and absorb -- much more than we give them credit for.
My barely 3 year old asks about global warming; I'm sure by 8 he'll be pretty savvy about political questions. And yes, he gets it at home, so some might consider him a "billboard for our politics". He'll be a well informed, conversant child because dinner conversation at our house covers a full range of topics and we have no intention of hiding our points of view from him.
Having said that, however, we must constantly be careful of *how* we say things. I've dialed back my language considerably when driving with him in the car, but am still working at it even more, because even without profanity, some things just shouldn't be said by a 3 year old. Political conversation doesn't have the same tenor at our house, but I'm sure it does in some. The decisions that are being made in the country are hugely important and should not be glossed over with minimal tepid debate out of some misguided sense of "respect".

"He came to this conclusion on his own -- based on his own reading of the newspaper, watching television, absorbing the world around him. Believe it or not."

I would say not. And welcome back jokester!

My son is 9 and has said he thinks Bush is a bad president - an opinion he picked up from the news of the war/other kids more than me - he is capable of forming his own opinions. He knows I am a Democrat, but I have actually not criticized the president, only told him why I vote Democrat (policies/beliefs).
As for the F word, Steve makes clear that they have discussed the use of it - but the focus of the discussion/his sons emotion made it not the isssue at that time. Same with the use of the word hate. They can discuss that later, the issue was 9/11 and terrorism in general. Better to reassure/discuss now, and go back to the use of words later.
My 9 year knows about 9/11 but we had a discussion recently about the Pennsylvania crash, and how some brave people might have saved his grandparents, who live 5 blocks from the Capitol.
He wants to watch the news and I am constantly trying to explain things to him in a truthful but not frightening way. I watch BBC world news, which is factual but not sensationalistic.

"I'm sure by 8 he'll be pretty savvy about political questions... He'll be a well informed, conversant child because dinner conversation at our house covers a full range of topics..."

I'll bet this kid is going to wind up telling the best fart jokes.

""I'm sure by 8 he'll be pretty savvy about political questions... He'll be a well informed, conversant child because dinner conversation at our house covers a full range of topics..."

I'll bet this kid is going to wind up telling the best fart jokes."

LOL! Ain't that the truth. Boy, don't aim too high with that one. Eight year olds aren't supposed to be well informed and conversant. This is a child, not a mini me doll.

I don't understand why so many people don't belive that children pick up information and form their own opinions at an early age. Every since I started reading at 4, my mom has joked that I read everything I can get my hands on even if the only thing available is a catalogue.

My son is 4 and starting to learn to read. Even with out knowing all the words he consumes books. By 8 I have no doubt that he will be skilled enough to digest newspapers and news magazines. He already shows signs of forming his own opinions on everything from Broccoli to homelessness (living in the D.C. area it's impossible to avoid, though I'm not sure I would want to).

Kids differ drastically. Just because one child is still learning to read at 8 or shows little interest in politics at 8 doesn't mean that is true of every child.

Something ate my post, so I'm trying again:

All this talk about kids and words reminds me of when I was in 6th grade and I was furious with an elderly nun at my school. She told someone that I was a something or other (I can't remember the word; she was referring to me being defiant, disrespectful or disobidient, basically). A classmate overheard it and told me, "Sister so and so said you were ____________." I thought of a word that I had heard, not at home but from other children, that sounded wonderfully bad. I didn't even know the meaning of this word, but that didn't stop me from retorting, "Well, then Sister so and so is a wh*re!"

You should have seen the little girl's reaction. She gasped like she was drawing her last breath. Her mouth was one big O. Her eyes were like saucers.

"What?!" I didn't even pretend bravado.

"If Sister heard you say that, she'd smack your face."

"Why?!"

She told me why.

Whoopsie.

Speaking of sheltering children, am I the only one who tells their pre-schoolers that the people by Key Bridge are holding signs that say "Have a nice day."

Army Brat: Thanks for that. It is good to see the real human side of the nameless faceless bloggers on the 'net.

Your father sounds like an exceptional man.

Hm, my second post already today. After my somewhat ranting post above, I spoke with my husband, the one who was in Iraq. He immediately suggested I post again about his greatest fear. As I mentioned, our oldest son was 8 when 9/11 happened. He's now in middle school. We've been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan for 5 years now. Do we really believe that this hostility will be over in 5 more years? I seriously doubt so. My son will be 18 and subject to the draft in 5 years. Sobering, frightening, unacceptable to think that HE may be the one still fighting this war. My husband was fortunate, he has many effects of his time in Iraq but he came home, was not physically injured, resigned his commission and is out of the military. But his fear of being recalled still is there. And his fear of our son being drafted is very, very real.

I see the anti-intellectual forces are out in full. Others don't see being well informed as pressure -- it's a state of being curious about the world around us. A characteristic unfamiliar to GWB and minions, I suppose.

Arlington Dad,

My preschoolers go to preschool in the city near where I work and they see the homless every day. Even if I told them the signs said "Have a nice day", it wouldn't stop their questions about the blankets, the shopping carts, etc.

I would rather them hear from me about homelessness so I can instill compassion than hear it from someone else who is not compassionate.

And his fear of our son being drafted is very, very real.

Posted by: Stacey | February 6, 2007 10:13 AM

Stacey,
We don't have a draft in this country.

What draft?

You know, every time I read crap like this I reflexively want to vote Repbulican (and I hate Republicans almost as I hate Democrats). This is the usual, blame America, blame Bush crap that I always hear from liberals. I'm tired of the ignorant assumption that if we were just nice to the Muslim extremists they'd be nice to us, so it must be our fault crap.

I see the anti-intellectual forces are out in full. Others don't see being well informed as pressure -- it's a state of being curious about the world around us. A characteristic unfamiliar to GWB and minions, I suppose.

---

Being well-informed is important, it's the arrogance and presumptuousness we are mocking.

This is what I do not understand about the Pro-War group. Why support a war that was entered into on false terms (WMDs) and stay there after 2nd objective (remove Hussein) has been accoplished, just so more troops can die? How is that supporting our troops? How is wanting to bring them home to prevent more American deaths 'against the troops'? Also, the term 'cutting and running' or run away, as you put it, what exactly does that mean? What qualifies 'cutting and running' rather than leaving an situation that has devolved into Civil War, and the continued presence of American soldiers only serves to enrage and encourage people to attack them, essentially creating more terrorists by the mere presence of Americans? At what point do you deem it would be okay to remove American troops, when all terrorists have surrendered? What is the end point, when does America win? And what is it that has been won? How many more young American soldiers and Iraqi civilians have to die before this is accomplished, according to you? And if you are so against soldiers leaving Iraq, why don't you volunteer?

Back on topic, I think that the Dad did a good job talking to his child. Obviously, Palestine and Israel were probably topics in the book, as well as the war in Iraq and Bush's handling of the war, prompting the questions from the child. The parent is free to express his views to his child, or not if he so chooses, and who is anyone else to criticize him?

I find it interesting that so many people are offended that as parents, we may exert influence over our children's political sentiments. Why is that so strange? We certainly exert influence over them in many other spheres, including religion, moral values, etc. Why should politics be any different? Our political positions grow from our particular philosophies, moral values, and even our religious beliefs. It is only natural that as parents, we should share this with our children.

Of course, we should also be prepared for the day when our children reject one or more of these things. I guess that while it is natural to share our values and beliefs with our kids, it is just as important to give them a foundation for critical thinking, so that when they begin to make their own choices and decisions, they will be founded on critical thought rather than blind dogma.

There is nothing wrong with our kids picking up how we feel about the world. What, we aren't supposed to express opinions in the house when they might hear? That would be ridiculous. Go ahead, teach them what you believe. Also teach them that people will have different viewpoints and that it's ok for them to form a different opinion. I don't see anything wrong with what Steve told his son. I think he approached a difficult subject very well.

Bad title.

When I saw the headline, I figured it was about a real 9/11 dad. Someone who lost their wife, the mother of their child/children at the WTC, PA crash, or the Pentagon. Someone that now "balances" raising the child/children with work and trying to move on, yet not forget at the same time, and trying to get the child to understand what it's all about.

Sorry I read it and the rest of these comments!

We have thousands of miliary members on "stop loss." We have reservists on active duty for years. There are huge financial "bonuses" being offered to potential military recruits but the military is woefully understaffed. Folks who did their 20 years for the military are being recalled to active duty. We may not call it a "draft" but we're sure not far away. I don't see a future without a draft if we're being at all realistic.

How do you tell children about other bad things such as divorce, death of a loved one or a pet, arrest of a loved one? I feel sorry for the children of the astronaut who was arrested for attempted kidnapping, among other things.

If you are arguing that Steve is biased and therefore WaPo is biased (or vice versa), is that truly a defensible position?

Does that not easily open up a discussion of whether Cheney/Bush are "biased" towards oil and "biased" towards conquest of middle eastern lands rich in oil?

Or, do Arlington Dad and others argue that Bush/Cheney are magically able to put aside their personal feelings & business interests, while the author WHOM YOU'VE NEVER MET OR SEEN QUOTED BEFORE must be biased an unable to do his job without the influence of his own politics.

Gotcha. Conservatives can put aside their biases and financial interests without issue. Progressives are universally unable to do that. Hmmm.

That logic only makes sense to people who could stand to listen to the Hannity/Coulter/Limbaugh set in the first place.

"I think Bush is an idiot too. I didn't vote for him, but this country did. That's the system."

Actually, the country didn't vote for him. The Supreme Court appointed him.

No, Master B, they will not rest until THEY are dead.

logic has no place on this blog!

We may not have an active draft right this minute, but Stacy is right: when her son hits 18, he will have to register for selective service. And that means that if/when the draft comes back, he'll be down on the rolls. There is no way for him to avoid this if he wants to renew hi driver's license, apply for financial aid, vote, or do any number of other things. Stacy, and the parent of any son, has a right to be concerned. Their children's names are down, and should the draft go back into effect, they will be called.

"I don't see a future without a draft if we're being at all realistic."

Rep. Rangel has again introduced a "Universal National Service Act of 2007" H.R. 393.

He introduced similar legislation a few years ago. He was so sure that this legislation was necessary that he voted AGAINST it when it was brought up for a vote before the 2004 election.

The Democratic legislators are the only ones speaking of a draft.

Gosh, this is why I can't stand to be a Democrat.

This war was NOT about oil. If it was about oil for anyone- try the French or Russians. THEY were the ones who had oil contracts in Iraq before the war.

We are not getting any oil from Iraq to bring to the US.

To all you folks who keep harping on Steve Fox's and WaPo's liberal bent --

If you dislike WaPo so much, why do you read it?

It's like going to Newcastle and telling people you hate coal.

Given that there are already over a hundred posts on this blog, my comment will be totally lost in the vitrol. Still, for the sake of the author, I need to make it:

I liked the blog entry. I liked that it demonstrates that children do not live in a bubble. Smart kids will hear things, pick up books, ask questions, make connections, and form opinions, and they'll do all these things in direct defiance of parental "protection".

It seems important to remind people that kids live in this world too. They have ideas about it, and fears, and hopes.

Everyone who's judging the author for having "allowed" such an idea as disrespect for the president to penetrate an eight-year-old's world, well, it doesn't seem to me like you're doing your little hothouse flower any favors by isolating them from the reality.

Cheers Mr Fox.

Does that not easily open up a discussion of whether Cheney/Bush are "biased" towards oil and "biased" towards conquest of middle eastern lands rich in oil?

Given our dependance on a secure supply of oil, is it not in the national interest to ensure that the supply is secure?

If you say no, I hope that you have parked your SUV and walk everywhere. Don't sell it or you would be just as guilty as you would enable others to use more gasoline.

If you dislike WaPo so much, why do you read it?

It is called "Know your enemy."

"Parents have to be a filter not an indoctrinator. Teaching values, morals and basic respect go a long way, eventually they can filter things on their own."

cmac --

So true. But, when your kids are teenagers in a few years, will you attempt to alter or influence any liberal views they may espouse?

Given your extremely right-wing attitudes, how far will your tolerance go?

If you are arguing that Steve is biased and therefore WaPo is biased (or vice versa), is that truly a defensible position?

Does that not easily open up a discussion of whether Cheney/Bush are "biased" towards oil and "biased" towards conquest of middle eastern lands rich in oil?

---

No, it doesn't anon poster.

Leslie, can you have some of the virulent posts casting all Muslims as violent, or wholesale slaughter of whole populations of Muslims as 'funny,' removed?

I'm an Army brat, too. I spent two years of my childhood in a Muslim country, a US ally, rich in kind-hearted hospitality, Western ambitions, ambiguous history . . . my cousins, also Army brats, spent a shorter time in a different Muslim country, then were evacuated a month before it erupted in the Iranian hostage crisis . . . such diferent experiences . . . the Muslim world is obviously a vast and diverse one, with pockets greatly supportive of Western and humanitarian values, and pockets of violent fundamentalist zeal . . . we do nothing but fuel the violent xenophobic minority by acting as provincial xenophobes ourselves, and tarring all Muslims with the acts of an extreme fringe . . .

"I'm torn because a part of me does feel the position of president should be respected regardless of who's president, but on the other hand, there have definitely been men who are not worthy of respect who've held the office. So I'm not sure how to deal with that subject when it comes up. I'm sure I'll figure it out, just like other posters have done."

I am not going to quibble over whether the position of the president should be respected, even if you don't respect the actual individual. I think that is semantics to a certain degree. But I do think that regardless of what you think of the leaders in our country, it is important to respect the democratic process, and the process which our constitution has outlined in terms of electing our leaders. Respect for this process allows our government to exist peacefully. Granted, it allowed Bush to become president during his first term, amidst a great deal of uncertainty in terms of the electoral vote, but at least the process was peaceful and orderly. We did not go to civil war. The same democratic process allowed the congress to go democratic last year. What I love about the USA is its democratic process, and how the people, even when their side loses an election, peacefully accept the authority of the new leader. And I also love that we have the right to scourge our leaders in the press, criticize them, praise them, question them, look into their pasts, etc. And still, they retain their positions until the next election comes along, and when it does, we accept the results of the election and keep going. This, I think, is what makes America great and unique.

FYI "To SoMD" I am a registered member of the Democratic Party and have been since 1982. Unlike most of my party I am capable of independent thought and vote for the best candidate every election. I am NOT a vote-the-party line brain-dead idiot. Try it sometime, it may be enlightening.

"anti-gay epitath"

Bookworm Mom --

Would that be "epithet"?

Be careful about advertising your literacy, and watch those malapropisms!

To the anon poster at 10:46.

Well said. I completely agree.

Really dumb topic today.

Ok,

For those with older/young adult kids- how did you handle the Clinton/Lewinsky fluid on the Gap dress situation?
I'm 27 (was 12-13 during this time) and so I, of course, felt very cosmopolitan and mature and thought I knew it all...In retrospect I handled it well and, yes, I still thought of oral sex as sex (thanks to my parents) And the meaning of "is" and the details of the hearings will be forever burned into memory!

So how did you handle telling your kids about bl*w jobs, etc during that time?

Master Bayter, your only contribution today is to make repetitive posts, approx. every 20 minutes, ranting about politics and having zero to do with tough parenting issues.

Steve responded to questions from his son. He didn't raise the topic of 9/11. In our house, we would have responded differently. Nonetheless, the point of the blog is, when your child brings home a book or raises an issue that is complex or serious or tragic or all three - how do you respond to it and to what extent do you try to shape your child's opinions about it? Our child has asked about individual homeless gentlemen and homelessness, generally, since he turned 3. He has prayed for the homeless and for our soldiers since he started praying his own prayers with his own words. (We pray together aloud at bedtime so the content of each our prayers is familiar to the other.) His concern and compassion have caused his father and I to be more sensitive to this issue and to consider positive ways in which to direct our son's concerns. The prevention of homelessness has become a family issue and one to which we now devote our most precious resource - our time. Thank God for our son's compassion and sensitivity.

Politics turns on values - what are our private and public priorities? how do we use our private and our public money to express those priorities? By 8, we are teaching our children about compassion, about fiscal discipline, about security, about everything that defines political values -- except party labels, which are not helpful in the slightest. Our family holds certain values dear and we explain the basis of our political opinions to our kids in a way that gives them a roadmap for how we reached our conclusion, and where the forks in the road are that would have led to a different conclusion. We also teach that reasonable, intelligent, people committed to the security of our great nation disagree on what our next step should be. Chuck Hagel and John McCain come to mind.

Being a thoughtful parent requires more than the knee-jerk comments of cmac or Master Bayter.

I'm an avid reader but a terrible speller - I'm sorry I didn't double ckeck that spell checker gave me back the wrong word - I was rushing.

"Really dumb topic today."

I think I have to agree with you ...

9/11 ... work ... family ... balance ???

I don't really get it.

Leslie,

Could the posts from "Master Bayter" be removed?

That moniker is stupid.

Two things strike me in this article:
1) My 9 year old son too says he hates Bush and we never talk politics at home. He's hearing this in school and is forming his own opinion based on a peer group-which I find interesting. I think 8 year olds are too young to be criticized for not respecting the "leader" because to them, the leader is made up of their parents and sometimes teachers. The concept of patriotism hasn't been formed. Their allegiance is to their parents at this point, so no need to blast away on that.
2) The adult's ignorance of foreign perception of America. To say that a lot of people hated us before and that now we know how many people hate us boggles my mind. Based on what? This is where a little bit of knowledge can do a lot of damage. Foreigners, for the vast majority, embrace America, American values and principles and respect us. Foreigners tend to have issues with US foreign policy. The distinction is important.

Could the posts from "Master Bayter" be removed?

That moniker is stupid.

--

Before I go back to work, I'd like to second that motion.

Leslie,

I can't believe that the Washington Post is leaving all the tasteless Muslim jokes on the website. They are in poor taste and are offensive to some Muslims.

"Parents, your children listen to you MUCH MORE than you realize. I know that most of us want to raise our children with our beliefs and values, but rational discourse about the other side(s) is not a bad thing."

These comments are directed to all the posters like this who have some problem with parents influencing or whatever their child's beliefs . . .

Gimme a break! Of course parents influence their children's thoughts and give them their biased perception of issues. This is true for anyone. This is ESPECIALLY true in the case of religion --indoctrinate them early and make clear that any opposing belief is wrong. Growing up in a particular religion that I will not name, I experienced this first-hand. But, b/c we are talking politics (let's be clear, liberal political views) now that is somehow off limits?

Rational discussion of issues from both POV's is a worthy goal. One I hope to aspire to achieve. However, I will not hide my political convictions from my kids.

And, also, I have to say that the second I read this blog entry I knew the liberal media conspiracy theorists would be out in full force today. And, I was right. So, you're offended (or whatever) that this person has expressed his own personal views re: Bush, 911, etc. in his own personal entry? Duly noted. May I suggest that if you would like your own views out there in the same manner. . . write your own entry and submit it.

Um, Yes, it does.

(we could do this all day.)

"When I saw the headline, I figured it was about a real 9/11 dad. Someone who lost their wife, the mother of their child/children at the WTC, PA crash, or the Pentagon."

Columbia, MD --

So you'd prefer that the blogger have experienced a horrible tragedy? That would make the article more fun to read?

For the politically active folks on the blog today, how do you handle it when your kid comes home with views that are opposed to yours? If you're a Republican, suppose that a neighbor kid has convinced him that Bush is needlessly murdering soldiers. If you're pro-choice, suppose another child has convinced her that abortion murders helpless babies. How much do you argue? Is there a point where you resort to the "this is my house and you will follow my values" rule? How important to you is it that your kids agree with you?

Yes, let's pad the streets so no one ever falls and gets hurt and let's make very sure that no one is ever offended. In fact I propose an ammendment to the Constitution - the right to never ever be upset or offended by something someone else thinks or says. Is there a second on the motion?

"I'm 27 (was 12-13 during this time)."

If you are 27, you were born in 1979 yes? The Clinton/Lewinsky episode story broke in 1998. That would make you 19, not 12-13. When you were 12-13, Clinton was "not inhaling." That made it interesting to discuss marijuana with kids.

"I can't believe that the Washington Post is leaving all the tasteless Muslim jokes on the website. They are in poor taste and are offensive to some Muslims."

Free speech - learn it, live it, love it.

"1) My 9 year old son too says he hates Bush and we never talk politics at home. He's hearing this in school and is forming his own opinion based on a peer group-which I find interesting. I think 8 year olds are too young to be criticized for not respecting the "leader" because to them, the leader is made up of their parents and sometimes teachers. The concept of patriotism hasn't been formed. Their allegiance is to their parents at this point, so no need to blast away on that."

Jose- I completely disagree. if their minds are sharp enough and inquisitive enough to form an opinion about the president and policy then learning respect for your country and an office should not be "too much" for them to handle.

The concept of patriotism is probably more ingrained in them than those fleeting feelings toward Bush. Discussions of politics, war, our foriegn friends, should include a healthy dose of what country is all about.

it's a powerful emotion and what moved us all to tears each time we heard the Star Spangled Banner for months after 9/11. It's not something one is taught- it is a feeling toward our country.

8 or 9 is in no way too young to respect the foundations of this country.

//They are in poor taste and are offensive to some Muslims. //

yep! you certainly don't want to offend any muslims. you know what happens when you do..... !!

To think that an 8 yo is incapable of forming opinions of people and world events is foolishness. While they may not have the nuanced (or not-so nuanced) opinions of an adult, still they take in the world around them.

When I was an 8 yo, I was very much aware the war in Viet Nam and the Cold War. I also remember that Communists were to be despised. I didn't know the name of the President, but I did know that he was to be respected.

Now, that I'm older, I realize that I also had a black-and-white outlook on the world. Nonetheless, I was aware of the local, national and world events and fit them, accordingly, into my 8 yo understanding of the world.

Two more thoughts - first, I think we can teach respect for the office of the president and for our leaders but that we can also teach our children to think critically and question authority when it's appropriate. I don't see these as mutually exclusive. For my children, who will not recall a childhood without war and international crisis, I believe this is critical.

Second, I am struck by the comments about young children being aware of homelessness and misfortune. My sons were very concerned about the children whose parents were killed on 9/11. In the larger political debate, I also think it is important to talk about the effects of 9/11 and the war on those families for whom there is a direct and tragic impact. Please don't misinterpret my earlier comments about the war(s) and the draft and unsupportive of those men, women, children and families who are affected by these issues. Maybe we should listen to our children and their concerns a bit more.

Too bad that Americans didn't show their respect for the office of president by voting Bush out in 2004.

First of all, I NEVER know what I'm getting into on this blog.

Second, to me Steve's essay is all about balance between work and home. A major topic for the past two years at my house has been the choices of working and stay-at-home moms. How could my kids not pick up on the central focus of my daily work? How could Steve's son NOT be interested in politics and international events?

As parents we try to shield and shape our kids. But invariably we end up warping them. Sometimes in good ways, sometimes in bad ways. It's part of being a passionate parent.

I agree with all the requests to remove the tasteless and offensive Muslim jokes. They are blatantly racist. WaPo, do the decent thing and remove these awful posts.

I was in undergrad on 9/11, and could see the smoke from the Pentagon when it happened. I watched the WTC get hit the first time, ran to my friend's room down the hall and turned on her TV in time to watch the second plane hit. While I don't have children yet, I do plan to tell hold on to the emotions I felt that day, and the emotions I've had since, regarding US foreign policy. I liken it to my mother sharing her thoughts with me about the day JFK was shot (it was her 8th birthday) or the day someone walked on the Moon. Those two events have huge meaning to me because she shared her visceral response to them with me when I was a very young girl.

We can't shelter kids. But we can definitely share our experiences. Not doing so is simply a disservice to them and to us.

To anonymous 11:07 (both of you!)

This is not an entirely "free" forum. You may want to use this forum to trumpet your worst, most ignorant, most bellicose, most racist thoughts, but the Post's own rules for blog posting state

>You may not post content that degrades others on >the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, >national origin, religion, sexual preference, >disability or other classification. Epithets and >other language intended to intimidate or to >incite violence will not be tolerated.

You're "free" to find another forum . . . one where we regulars needn't to feel complicit in your hate-mongering, just because we don't rise up to disavow each instance.

Free speech - learn it, live it, love it.

Yes, as long as they are not about a black crack baby, right.

yah, let's remove all the posts that don't comply with our standards of niceness.
we gotta shield the little boys and girls who read this blog!

"User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site"

that's about 60% of the posts. please remove them.

"Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed"

that's another 20%. please remove.

i think only 10% of the posts really qualify if you strictly enforce all the rules you state.
warning: percentages are approximate.

Tom T. posted:

"Is there a point where you resort to the "this is my house and you will follow my values" rule? How important to you is it that your kids agree with you?"

If the basis for your beliefs with respect to issues as important as abortion/abortion rights are so insufficiently persuasive that you can't convince your kids of the correctness of your stance without resorting to parental fiat, perhaps you need to rethink whether your beliefs are your beliefs or something you picked up from a party platform or an old girlfriend/boyfriend along the way to adulthood. If you know why you believe what you believe, you owe it to your kids to explain the foundation for those beliefs, and to explain, as well, any weakness in your position.

This is my house when it comes to house rules. We set the curfew. We set the standard for acceptable language and acceptable ways to express disagreement. We set the rules for honor, integrity, a sense of duty and law-abiding behavior. We expect patriotism. We expect that if you love our country, you want the best for it and you will care and inform yourself about current events, party platforms, what the policy differences and fiscal approaches between political opponents means. You will support our troops. Supporting our troops means you have a personal responsibility to consider and evaluate the impact on those troops of the decisions of the Commander in Chief and the Pentagon, and to attend closely to competing views expressed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Opinions, and the basis for them, if expressed in a manner respectful of the person with whom you're debating have a core place in our household. We are not Matlin and Carville, by any means, but my husband and I are not in complete agreement on, for instance, Israel/Palestine issues. Neither of us believes that the other's position is right and both of us absolutely believe that getting it right matters. As a result, our kids have learned alot about how to conduct a passionate, informed debate on big issues and not cross the line of denigrating comments along the lines of "only an uninformed ignorant follower of ____ would think X".

Knowing we have young witnesses causes us to take great care with the way in which we express our political disagreements. It's a good lesson for us all.

moxiemom, your 8:06 point was dead-on.

Hmm - I would have to say I tend to err on the sheltering side, as opposed to say, the too much information side. We were still living out west on 9/11, and I think that really lessened the impact. I didn't discuss it with him then (he was 5) but might have if we would have lived here just because it seems it would have been very immediate and in his face. The f-word is a non-issue in my house. Using a swear word is far less offensive to me than any number of other responses people can give when angry. I don't talk politics much at home, and I am not even sure my son knows my party affiliation, but yes, he says all kinds of things about Bush that he has NOT heard from me. I am very open about answering his questions, but I do not generally initiate uncomfortable topics. I have a couple friends who I like to say "lead the witness" too much, and I don't think that encourages critical thinking. I hope that I am not sheltering him too much.

sorry for the unintended anon post. That was me at 11:24.

I was born in 79 as well and wow, what an interesting 90s to grow up in politically!

Marion Barry, Clinton, and OJ of course occupied that summer vacation between 9th and 10th grade, I believe it was.

I do think it was ashame in a way, though. I'm a political animal, but I think those scandals turned a lot of young people off in a lot of ways- instead of politics being a serious thing, it's now a joke."B... set me up" and "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" is not the best way to form one's political mind, but...what can we do...

So, is the N word or the other F word acceptable?

cmac --

So true. But, when your kids are teenagers in a few years, will you attempt to alter or influence any liberal views they may espouse?

Given your extremely right-wing attitudes, how far will your tolerance go?

Posted by: usuallylurking | February 6, 2007 10:45 AM

It's hard to take your question seriously aince you portray me as having "extreme right wing attitudes." You don't know me and I think you'd be surprised at some of my views. I think you'd also be surprised to know that I grew up with parents that are Democrats and with no political motivations when it came to their kids. They raised 3 kids that are conservative and vote with the Republican Party (for the most part) - so party label means little to me - it has to do with what is right and wrong.

Regardless, tolerance is not an issue in our house. We have friends of different political persuasions, ethnicity and backgrounds and my kids hear different perspectives all the time. We're not bringing our kids up in a bubble. I hope my kids will be on the right side of the issues of the day as teenagers and adults, and grow up to be good people despite any political label.

"sorry for the unintended anon post. That was me at 11:24"

Dammit, NC Lawyer, I have warned you several times about CRS! I did know it was you from your style.

Ah yes, differences of opinions - when I was 12, I participated in a debate at school on abortion - at the time, I was adamantly pro-life. My mother was just as adamantly pro-choice, but never never never did she say my viewpoint was "wrong". She simply explained why she felt the way she did. I expect to do the same with my own child. I would never call my beliefs my "rules" and expect them to be "obeyed" as such.

So, is the N word or the other F word acceptable?

Posted by: to TakomaMon | February 6, 2007 11:27 AM

This is such nonsense. The use of common cursewords, generally either vulgarity or profanity, has not got diddly to do with common use of words that express intolerance. The use of various words that refer to excrement is no indicator that TakomaMom or any other parent from whom foul language is a non-issue is raising a homophobic or racist child. gimmeabreak.

Actually, what I would call the "standard" swear words are all acceptable - what I would call derogatory terms are completely off-limits - this includes the n-word and the other f-word, which I have never used in my life. These are the rules my parents used, and I always respected their system.