First!

I personally always feel like I could be doing more as a mom. I know that I could be doing more in my career but that does not bother me. As long as I do the job as required, I am thrilled to take a back seat while my child is young. But it does sort of bother me when DD is sick and it is difficult to take time off. I worry about all the teacher work days, snow days and summers. I think it is always hard to justify working with children. But you have to pay the bills, so what choice do we really have?

When I was the guest blogger here a couple months ago, under my real name, the inner mommy war was driving me crazy. Finding myself pregnant again recently has upped that angst -- but I'm slowly working myself out of it, in part through blogs like this. It is so important to know I'm not the only one who has the feelings I have! I really believe we have to try our hardest to embrace our decisions and not be overly sensitive to what other people say -- half the time, they aren't insinuating what we think they are, and if they are, then who cares! Being a "housewife" ain't so bad, if you don't make it a bad word. And being a working mom is a real necessity for many families -- and doesn't mean you care less for your children.

Anyway, I think the key to finding a "truce" is to resolve our own feelings about what we do. I know there are many of you out there who don't have angst, and that's great. But for those of us who do (and I know there are many), making peace with who we are as parents, employees, etc., is the first step. We live in an opinionated society, so of course someone will always have something contrary to say, but if we're firm in our beliefs that what we do is right for us, then it will matter much less what others might think of our choices.

I don't have a "private mommy war". The "Mommy Wars" are fake, drummed up by the media to sell books, columns, and blogs. Might as well be talking about Bigfoot.

While I think this is an important discussion, it is one that has been discussed ad-nauseum on this blog. There IS more to balance in your life than fighting the tilting windmills again. Yesterdays topic was non-divisive, informative and relevant. A frequent contributer once listed a whole list of better things to discuss. Try a few.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I wonder where this discussion is going to lead? hmmmmm..... Bring back foamgnome!

for the next few days, I get to manage my family all by myself, kinda like being a single father.

right now, I feel really happy. I got up early, turned on the stereo during the get to school routine and hugged 3 kids before I launched them off to get their daily dose of education.

I have one more to get to pre-school which will require a mile walk, but I'm looking forward to hanging around the PS moms and maybe another dad or 2.

What a piece of cake! It's the Bon-bon life.

I can get use to this!

But then again, ask me how good I feel after I put the kids to bed tonight!

"The inability of our country to accept that more than 70 percent of moms with children under age 18 need to work provides the real fuel inflaming the mommy wars. Feeling good about yourself as a mother, whether you're working in or outside your house, is a pathetically difficult task in America today."

Blaming America because you don't "feel good about yourself?" Now it is the country's problem that millions of women don't fell good about themselves.

Yesterday I heard a study about Narcissm among College students. Apparently the past 20 years of "feel good" sports and "no one wins" has left an entire generation with a feeling of entitlement. Now we have the mommies that feel they are entitled to "feel good about themselves" despite their decisions. It is the country that is to blame!

Come on ladies, are we not strong enough to reject this? If you don't feel good about yourslef perhaps you should re-evaluate your decisions, work, family time - whatever it takes to make your life better. Posting on this blog gives a lot of women an outlet for their frustrations - including myself. However when I see blame being laid at the feet of a whole country because a Wharton Business School Graduate with an extremely charmed life doesn't feel good about herself - well, it makes me ashamed to be a female. It allows every stereotype of women to be justified - emotional, undecisive, irrational. We are better than that.

That is my rant and I am done.

"I don't have a "private mommy war". The "Mommy Wars" are fake, drummed up by the media to sell books, columns, and blogs. Might as well be talking about Bigfoot."

I agree with that. What a waste of energy to worry what others think or to internalize fake angst.

"Bring back foamgnome"

Really, yesterday's blog was not very exciting. Trying to decide whether or not to have another child? Yawn.

There are so many other issues affecting women and families that could be discussed, but some of you live in a small, small world

"Now we have the mommies that feel they are entitled to "feel good about themselves" despite their decisions. It is the country that is to blame!"

Or entitled to take sick days for "mental health"

Please, stop picking on Leslie. She is sharing her innermost thoughts and she's not doing it anonymously like the rest of us. Some of you are just mean and nasty and it is YOU who "allows every stereotype of women to be justified - emotional, undecisive, irrational" to persist.

Foamgnome, I've added you to my list of heroes.
.

And I think you should go for another child. If not for any other reason, this world needs more responsible, respectable parents like yourself to balance out, well, um, fathers like me that have 4 kids to corrupt. :-)

8:06: Well, not to be rude but if you have a better topic, please write a guest blog about it. We are all anxiously waiting for your blog. Seriously, I don't mind that some people do not like my guest blog. There will always be critics. But I really do encourage others to write one, if they think they can do better then Leslie. Brian or the past guest bloggers.

OT: OK, totally off topic. But what do you guys do for teacher's appreciation day? I think it comes up in early April. I don't want to over gift or under gift.

"Now we have the mommies that feel they are entitled to "feel good about themselves" despite their decisions. It is the country that is to blame!"

Or entitled to take sick days for "mental health"

Please, stop picking on Leslie. She is sharing her innermost thoughts and she's not doing it anonymously like the rest of us. Some of you are just mean and nasty and it is YOU who "allows every stereotype of women to be justified - emotional, undecisive, irrational" to persist.

Posted by: | February 28, 2007 08:09 AM

Leslie can defend herself. There are many times I agree with her but today the dredging up of a worn-out topic, then adding how it is the country's fault that we - as women and mothers - feel good about ourselves is silly and inane. Get a spine!

Give yourself a name so that we can count you as an ally of the "Blame America first" crowd of feel good gobbledy gook. Leslie doesn't need your help and she gets paid plenty not to be anonymous.

As a single parent, a called a truce long ago in my personal mommy war. There is a battle between my goal of a strong, stable career that will provide for my child (and later for myself in retirement) and being a great mother who prepares her child to succeed in the world. Neither would be achieved based on my BC (before children) perception of a good worker and a good mom. I now live with the reality that sometimes I'm a star at home, and a slacker at work (and vice-versa). Until we each, individually, are comfortable with our choices AND stop judging others for theirs, the mommy wars will rage on.

"Please, stop picking on Leslie. She is sharing her innermost thoughts and she's not doing it anonymously like the rest of us."

Right, she has a financial motive that the anonymous posters may not have.

OT: OK, totally off topic. But what do you guys do for teacher's appreciation day? I think it comes up in early April. I don't want to over gift or under gift.

Posted by: foamgnome | February 28, 2007 08:18 AM

How about a 5 or 10 dollar gift certificate to Book store or Coffe shop? Have your child make a card rather than buy one.

for teacher appreciation I always get a gift card to one of the chain bookstores. $10 or $15. Unfortunately, we don't like the assistant this year, but she too will get the same.

I do not have an internal mommy war.

Did anyone see the article about the kid who just died from tooth decay? It is deplorable that happens in this country.

Do you give the assistants the same amount? At Christmas we gave the teacher a $30 gc from Borders and the assistants $15 gc from block buster. Maybe that was a faux paus (sp?). We also gave $20 to bus driver and $15 for his assistant. I don't think I was going to give anything to the bus staff this year for TA because they are not really teachers. We give $50 gc for a pizza lunch for the day care staff. They are essentially like teachers.

For Teacher Appreciation, send your child in with a copy of your property tax receipt, with a big smiley face on it.

I've never read this blog before...is there always such a high degree of crankiness on it?

I have an intense internal mommy war. I hate the fact I'm not working. I don't like to admit to other moms that I would prefer to work. I have been out of the work force for 5 years now. I have tried to get a job. I've never had to try before. The failure is humbling.

I certainly have guilt sometimes about working, but want to point out that I work because I ENJOY it. So I probably don't have as much guilt as some.

I like being a successful career-woman. The money is definitely nice as well, but if hubbie and I really wanted to, we could live on his salary alone. Does that make me a bad mother? I don't think so. It just means that my life does not revolve around my children.

I only make this point b/c some people on this blog seem to imply that the only way a mom can justify working instead of being at home with their children is because of financial reasons.

The comment made earlier by cmac is ridiculous. To suggest that women who struggle with their decisions to work or stay home with their kids are blaming the country is absolutely something straight out of the Far Right NEO CON idiot playbook. Cmac, the article wasn't suggesting that these women are blaming the country, but I do think it was inferring that people such as yourself blame these women. I happen to be a working mom who went from full time to part time for my kids, though the economic penalty is there. Your opinion is what tires me the most, as if you think you should have a say in my private life, or my life in general. Tell me not to work; tell me not to have an abortion; tell me how to run my bedroom. Those are the kind of people whose attidude you represent so well in this column and you know what? Keep in your strict little boundaries and away from me, please.

I do have an small inner mommy war going on - all about the well-known issues: do I work too much; am I patient enough with the kids; is it good that I work; is it bad that I work, blablabla.

I can live with that inner battle to some extent and manage it ok on most days. What really makes me sad in all this is that my husband does not seem interested/supportive. He thinks there's "nothing to discuss" and, frankly, is not the type of guy with whom you could discuss more unconventional (for us) - options, like my quitting, our moving, whatever. I have plenty of girlfriends in similar boats with whom to chat, but it just makes me so sad that my husband can't/won't be part of the whole thing.

Just needed to vent. Slightly off topic, maybe.

"I only make this point b/c some people on this blog seem to imply that the only way a mom can justify working instead of being at home with their children is because of financial reasons."

It's because too many people like to judge other people's choices. Good for you that you are a successful career woman! You are a terrific example to your children. You are not a bad mother and to even think it shows how far we have fallen as a society. Good luck to you and your family.

Since when does getting paid to do something mean it's ok to be attacked for expressing an opinion? So many judgemental harpies on this list.

"To suggest that women who struggle with their decisions to work or stay home with their kids are blaming the country is absolutely something straight out of the Far Right NEO CON idiot playbook"

THANK YOU!!!!

Yesterday's blog topic was a bunch of navelgazing and all of this foamgnome adoration is tiresome.

I want to hear more from people like londonmom

"To suggest that women who struggle with their decisions to work or stay home with their kids are blaming the country is absolutely something straight out of the Far Right NEO CON idiot playbook."

Actually, no, it's not. Neoconservatism has little or nothing to say about domestic policy and has everything to do with the evangelization of democracy.

I agree with cmac. This topic has come up before; it really is incredibly self-indulgent (and not in a good, eating-triple-creme-brie sort of way) to spend much time moping because you interpret "You looked good during your interview yesterday" as "You heartless harridan, how can you stand to abandon your poor babies?"

How do you stop it? Just as you stop any other bad habit: recognize that it's not a good way to think and when you find yourself starting to think that way, tell yourself that it's wrong and actively concentrate on something else.

My God, my God, the energy that people waste worrying about what other people think.

Londonmom, like you, I never defined my life by my children. However, I do find others do. I can't tell you how many times I've been introduced as "xy's mom" !!

"What do you od for teacher appreciation day?"

Since I usually can't afford my own cup of tea, let alone buy one for someone else, I go an entirely different route for teacher apreciation day.

I wrote letters praising the two teachers who have had a tremendous positive impact on my daughter to the principal of her school and copied the teachers and my school board representative. I asked that the letters be considered when their employee evaluations were done.

The three teachers who work hard, yet didn't have that unique connection with my daughter got emails thanking them for all their hard work and dedication.

The one algebra teacher whose idea of teaching is to spend the entire class period yelling at a small group of students she can't seem to control didn't get anything. Thankfully, there are tutors who have helped my daughter get through the subject without the benefit of adequate in-class instruction.

ISTM as an outside observer that the "mommy wars" are mostly internal, an expression of the doubt that many mothers have about if they are doing the "right thing" for their children and their families. It doesn't matter if they work or stay at home; if you've got this conflict going on, whatever you aren't doing will be what you'll wonder if you
--should-- be doing.

For example, Leslie's comment from the playground mom. It was probably a completely innocent statement, but she chose to apply her internal conflict to it and turned it into a subtle criticism. Had she been dressed in jeans and a woman in a business suit had said something to her, she would have probably had a similar response but this time oriented in the other direction.

Mothers, you are in a lose-lose situation if you have this internal conflict. Nothing you do will be right, because you'll always have the "maybe I should have done this" comment pop up in your brain afterwards.

Your best bet IMO (as both a non-mom and non-parent so take it for what it's worth) is to make your decision, whatever it is, and move on with life. Don't dwell on the past and "what ifs"; it doesn't help and will eat you up inside.

dotted: Do you think you get introduced as xyz's mom because that is how the kids get to know you? I find I am K's mom at school and day care. Outside of school and day care, I do not introduce myself as K's mom. Even now at school or day care, I will say I am foamgnome, K's mom. But I was embarrassed when one of the parents at my daughter's party came and I had to introduce her as so and so's mom because it dawned on me that I did not know her first name. I should have just said this is Mrs. G.

Of course, it would help if I spell checked my post and spelled "appreciation" properly an caught my typo on "do." Sorry.

FWIW, the only time I really feel that grawing sense of unease about my decision is when the alumni magazine from the women's college I attended comes to my house every couple of months. It always seems to feature some woman my age who developed a cure for cancer while working full-time and raising six kids (three with special needs) who spends her vacations in India volunteering with Mother Theresa's organization. OH, and she's always really rich -- and her house is bigger than mine. And cleaner!

I agree with you Londonmom. I actually like to work and use my advanced degree that I worked darn hard to achieve. Any guilt I feel about my kids stems from things like, "Am I patient enough?" After fighting with my two year old boy to get dressed this morning for 15 minutes, I sure was glad to come to work! I do not judge those who choose to stay at home, but it is not a lifestyle that I wanted for myself. It is a very private choice (and like Londonmom, I am very fortunate to have a choice whether to work), yet the media loves to make all moms, whether working or not, feel guilty about something!

foamgnome-
Of course I'm xyz's mom if that is how kids know me. I'm also refering to how, when out at the pub grill, I will be introduced, by an adult to another adult, as being a parent of x and y. Interestingly, this usually happens when the two adults are both women. Though, occasionally, men do it too. But that could be because they know my sons though local competitions. The introducer doesn't say "she lives nearby" or "she works near you", but rather "she's the mother of ...". I hadn't really thought about it until londonmom mentioned defining herself through her children.

John hit the nail on the head. Insecurity drives your so-called internal wars. Do what you think is best and move on. Have faith in your decisions. I think Leslie really does have an insecurity issue if she's worried whether the SAHM's compliment was a backhanded one. C'mon.

I've known a lot of women who "analyze" other people's statements looking for an underlying message. I would hate to live my life like that. It's just too short.

Honestly, I think you need therapy. If you are unhappy with a part of your life, then change it and stop whining. The whole issue of the "mommy wars" is caused by women who don't seem to know themselves--what makes them happy. Figure that out, and the internal battle will stop.

This whole discussion makes women look like complete nut cases and is not a good example for future generations of women. Show some confidence and be proud of your life and the choices you make! Enjoy your kids AND your own kid-free accomplishments and stop worrying about what other people think about it.

I read Leslie's book when it came out a year ago and thought the essays captured my struggle with my inner mommy-war. It's hard to be raised with the "you can be whatever you want when you grow up" mantra which, in my family, implied a profession. I never doubted that I would have children but I did not contemplate how hard it would be to have *both* the family I wanted and the career I was groomed to expect. I've been a SAH mom, a part-time worker mom, a full time student mom, and a work full time mom. All have had their challenges and benefits too. My middle child asked me yesterday about my biggest regret in my life. After some thought, I answered him that I love where my life is now and if each step along the way brought me here, than I couldn't regret any of them (or my "mistakes" along that path). Overall, this is true. But hindsight provides a view of the forest when sometimes the trees were huge obstacles. Staying home full time was very difficult for me. Law school was wonderful - even if hard to manage with a 3 year old and an 18 month old. Being a single mom sometimes stunk and other times was great. Working full time provides me with a huge amount of independence but naturally there are times I wish I was home more. No easy answers for me and it's still a stuggle and I still feel the inner mommy war. My son's big project for the semester and associated class presentation is tomorrow. It was organized by the SAH room-mothers. We are supposed to drop off the represenative food exactly at 11:00. The lunch presentations are from 11:30 until 1:00. Not exactly a good thing from the work perspective. Stuggle.

I have to say you guys are really being tough on Leslie. I think it is great that so many of you have such high self esteems that you don't waiver or doubt past decisions. I don't think the external mommy wars exist much outside the media. I do think most people are more supportive and frankly don't have the time or interest to care much about what others are doing. I know I could care less what another mother is doing, minus child abuse. But to have self doubt is natural. And I don't think we are all so self confident that we don't spend some time rethinking different issues that affect our families. For example, I was at a birthday party with DD last month. She was the only 3 year old attending. Everyone else was 4. The 4 year olds had more advanced social skills then 3 year olds and certainly more the DD. So I spent a lot of time, following DD around making sure she wasn't climbing on the host's furniture or getting into this or that. One mother stopped and we talked for a while. So she asked me, "how long did I plan to stay home full time with DD?" I never mentioned my work situation at all in this short exchange. But I was puzzled why she thought I was a SAHM because I did not say anything about my work status. And the truth is DD has been in day care since she was 5 months old. So I told her I was a WOHM. But it made me think, am I a heliocopter parent, do I look anxious, or what about my interaction with my DD made her think I SAH? Now Ryan and JoeD can rip into me because evidently they think I am obessed with DD. Whatever. But it was just a sit back and think moment. Not to mention, I know tons of SAHMs who are a lot more relaxed with their kids then WOHMs. It is just different styles to parenting. I found out later that everyone else invited was a friend of the birthday girl from day care. So the mother assumed since I wasn't from day care that I was a SAHM. When the reality was, we know the family from church. But it does make you stop and think and is that really such a bad thing?

I agree, Foamgnome. The overly confident, I-made-all-the-right-choices-for-me-and-don't-regret-a-thing people on this blog don't necessarily represent reality. To me, it's not even too attractive a trait for somebody not to have any doubt ever - you need some introspection every once in a while, and that does include questioning or re-examining your past choices and your current situation.

To me, that's, again, a cultural thing (and I realize that I say that a lot...) - people in this country seem to have a strange (to me) need to stress again and again how confident they are, and how strong - - and how right. No room for doubt. I find it precludes valuable discussion sometimes.

"...and she's always really rich -- and her house is bigger than mine. And cleaner!"

but what about her laundry?

Fred,
You agreed we wouldn't talk about laundry today, remember?

No that agreement was given on Monday concerning Tuesday's blog. But if you want to talk about sparking clean bathrooms...

Fred,
I have no problem doing laundry or cleaning the kitchen but those darned toilets get me every time.

I am the official toilet scrubber in my house. Maybe this is why Fredia never complains about doing my clothes, including folding and hanging.

OK, since we have digressed about talking about bathroom cleaning, can we change topics. I personally really like moximom's suggestion about balancing the culture war versus instilling your own values in your kids. Any takers?

Fred - can't agree more with that division of labor. I'll happily be the laundry queen as long as DH takes care of the bathrooms :)

We will never find a permanent truce. At least not between moms.
As long as the issue is something as important as how we choose to raise our kids and what we think is best, there will always be tension and a little "Mommy War".

For example, if a mom thinks it imperative to raise healthy happy kids by staying at home, there will always be a little contempt for working moms with kids in daycare. For these moms, working would be devastating to kids.

Or, if a working mom believes that working full time makes her a happy productive part of society, then maybe she will never understand the "waste" of staying at home and think the SAHM is wasting her life away.

This is like the abortion issue in a lot of ways. A lot of people on both sides of the issue are fierce and passionate about their choices and truly believe that their way is the right way.

But what we DO have control over is our inner war. I am generally very happy about my choices. I wish, like a lot of working moms and dads, that there were more family friendly businesses, but I enjoy working and my daughter loves preschool, my husband is incredibly involved in every aspect of parenting. I feel very lucky.

Not to say I don't feel guilty and have those battles within myself on the days that things just don't come together. But, does it really matter? We're human and I'm in no way an absolute creature. Our feelings change, situations change, emotions come and go...

I think that inner battle is healthy and a way to keep our lives in balance and together by forcing us to question where we are in our lives and what our priorites are at that time.

ahhhh...the outside the home culture vs. the inside the home culture discussion. foamgnome, you realize this will end up being similar to sahm and wohm.

more seriously, one tactic/strategy (which one is it?) we use is to point out publicly to our kids that something is inappropriate, tacky, whatever. We, the adults, express our opinion. The second step is to take action. If it is on tv, we change the channel or turn it off. If it is elsewhere, we direct attention to something else. I try to remember and not spend my bucks in those places with offensive advertising. In the mall, it is easy. I just won't go into places with pictures of people having sex on their windows (think abercrombie).

I think you make a good point SAHMbacktowork. It's hard for people to see or understand the other side. I have several friends who would be miserable if they stayed home because they really like their work, and I think it's great they work. But I know for my family that I prefer being home with my kids most of the time (soon to be full time) and working full time out of the house would be awful for all of us.

Ajax said:"I agree, Foamgnome. The overly confident, I-made-all-the-right-choices-for-me-and-don't-regret-a-thing people on this blog don't necessarily represent reality."

I wasn't trying to say that everything's perfect and I have no self doubt. All I was trying to say is that my self doubt stems from something I may have done wrong or could have done better not from what I think some chick that I don't even know is thinking about me at the playground.

And after I've thought about what I could have done better I get on with it. There's no use in dwelling on it. That causes premature wrinkles and I'm trying to stave those off :-)

I think SAHMbacktowork just said it more eloquently than I did.

Everyone has doubts relating to the big decisions they made in their lives. That's normal. What's not normal is constantly obsessing about nearly every decision that goes into raising children, worrying if it was the "right decision" or not.

No one gives out a manual on raising children when they are born that has a 100% guarantee to success. Even for later children there's a trial and error process; a friend of mine with her third child says they are all different and she had to adjust her methods with each one.

Dotted: I don't see it as a SAHM vs WOHM debate. Most of my WOHMs have similar angst about the culture war as my SAHMs; minus the working mom part. I guess I was talking about the violence and sex sold to our kids. I noticed even my friends that have 4 year old daughters, there is a big difference. They all want to wear play make up and care a lot about their clothes. To the point that it is really not healhty. Not that a 4 year old is looking to wear clothes that scream, " I want sex" but they are concerned about what they wear and refuse to wear certain items of clothes. In some ways, I am glad DD goes to delayed preschool and day care. She seems less likely to be influenced by her peers that way.

It seems that one answer to at least reducing the mommy wars is to increase options for parents. I would love to work part time but I haven't been able to find part time work and I worry that it will be held against me when I'm ready to go back full time. My mom is ready to scale back and would love to job share but her employer won't allow it. Having more in between options I bet would make a lot of parents feel better about their choices and therefore probably make them better parents and workers.

I don't think the mommy wars are all in women's heads. When I had my first child I was in grad school and I took class part time and co-taught a course at the university. People I barely knew felt free to criticize my decisions, from both perspectives but I felt great about my choice which did help me to shrug most of it off but not all.

LOL at wtf about the tax with the smiley face... do not forget the gold star sticker!

Anyway, it seemed to me that the word housewife has taken on a negative connotation. It is a perfectly respectable job, so long as that time at home is used for the benefit of the family. All sexism aside, the reason why it has worked so well in the past is that it brings some semblance of balance to the home. When both husband and wife are out of the house all of the time, something suffers. Sure, it may not be right for everyone, and if the woman wants to go out and work and can do so, good for her- or vice-versa with the man. If she wants to do the stay at home thing and keep the house nice, spend time with kids, or do something fun, great, but it seems that the ones looking down their noses at the housewives are mostly other women who choose to work at some profession other than taking care of the home. Whichever avenue produces the most stability for the household is the best one for that couple and should not be looked down upon. Seriously, it is beginning to look like woman's own worst enemy is their fellow woman. Just like some blacks are saying Obama is not black enough it seems some women feel that others are not woman enough if they choose to stay home and not work. Leave the sexism to us guys, get in the kitchen and make some pies! ;-) By the time you add up all you spend on daycare, taxes, or quality time lost with a child or children, is the extra paycheck worth it? If so, fine, but regardless, you should not feel superior to another human being based upon your occupation.

Argh, don't get me started on clothing for 4 and 5 year old girls! My DD just turned 5 and it's impossible to shop for her. Department stores sell mini versions of clothing I wouldn't want an 18 year old daughter to wear. Tummy baring, low rise, teeny tops. And shoes that a child can't run and play in - I think heels and open toes are really not good for the playground. Let's allow the children to be children for heaven's sake - not turn them into mini-adults with questionable taste.

"fighting the tilting windmills again."

Do you mean "tilting at windmills again"? Or are there some off-center windmills somewhere that need to be straightened?

I have to say you guys are really being tough on Leslie...
Is someone sucking up to try to get featured again ALREADY? :-P LMAO

I have to say that I think being a "housewife" is a very demanding and tough job. It is hard to run a household- especially with multiple kids. This week was a nightmare for me regarding car inspections, DMV trips, laundry, grocery shopping, 2 dr appointments, babysitter interviews, thank you card writing, cleaning the house (we're organizing the closets)...all while working full time.

Housewives have a lot to do! There are a lot of negative steretypes of the bon bon eating soap watching moms, but I think if a mom approaches as A JOB and works accordingly, it's perfectly respectable. I wouldn't mind doing it as long as I had a charity or something in addition once the kids are off to school.

I really do believe that the Mommy Wars live more on the inside than on the outside, and it takes a strong sense of self and a solid support system - like with any insecurity.
I can think of few times in my almost one year of Motherhood where my own issues have come out in less than positive ways - Mommy Wars ways. Had lunch with an aquaintance with who had her baby a few months after I had mine. She spent a good amount of time whining about how upset she was to go back to work and leave her son with her Mom - granted going back to work 2 days a week/not full time. Here I was, back at work full time when my daughter was 4 months old, feeling jealous and ugly of her financial situation and 'problems.' This did not bode well for turning an aquaintance into a friend.
Similarly, a woman who I had been friends with for years, also a new mom, showed her true feelings when she realized I work from 10a- 6p. "6P? That's really late! How can you be away from your baby that long?!" was the only way I could interpret her reaction.
I struggle with my decisions on a daily basis, and struggle with coming to peace with the fact that I am in a good situation - a flexible job where I can work from home when I want/need to. A family-friendly company. A wonderful husband. A fabulous in-home daycare where my daughter is loved.
All this... yet... my internal Mommy War continues...

Time for a deep, cleansing breath :D

Leslie: Please - stop feeling guilty about your professional success. Because you can not help if other people are resentful or jealous of your success. It's one of the prices of success - lonely at the top and all that jazz. Worry about the people who actually matter in your life.

To those saying Leslie is insecure: Glass Houses. Stones. Why post otherwise?

To those standing up for Leslie: Admirable. But as Leslie is the one with the book and the blog, I think she has ample opportunity to stand up for herself. ;)

Insecure myself? D@mn straight. Every hour of every day. I was embarrassed as h*ll yesterday about blow-drying an ice dam in one of my front gutters when there were contractors working on a house across the street. (My neighbors already know I'm off my rocker, but I keep secrets, throw block parties and buy something from every child's fund-raising campaign, so I'm forgiven my eccentricities ;) ) But I have a blizzard bearing down on me tonight, so it didn't stop me. So the contractors were probably amused and my gutter is running instead of iced over - everyone wins.

All we can do is try and learn from our mistakes and fix them when possible. Keep our heads high and understand we can't be everything for everyone, because there's only so much of a person to go around. And try to work past our fears and not let them keep us up at night (NyQuil is *excellent* for the latter ;) ). Analysis-paralysis is good for no one surrounding you.

If you want age appropriate clothing for boys or girls try Hanna Anderson and Janie & Jack. The clothes are expensive but they are super high quality and almost never inappropriate.

My four year old wants puppies and dinosaurs on his clothes not skateboarders. Clothes for young boys are often not age appropriate either.

Chris, I am not sucking up to Leslie and frankly I always have the option, as do you and everyone else, to write a guest blog. And believe it or not, the hight light of my life has not been being a guest blogger. Can't someone just agree with Leslie or do you guys all think she is so out there that no one on God's green earth is going to ever agree with her? If you think so, why do you read this blog at all?

"How about a 5 or 10 dollar gift certificate to Book store or Coffe shop?"

Here's a radical idea: How about a BOOK?

I'm one of those moms without a lot of angst, but it's less about feeling I've made perfect choices, as letting go of being perfect, or even that there is one right answer for most things. I'm a SAHM at least as much for dh and me as for my kids-- I have every reason to believe they would be fine in daycare, but they are fine staying home with me too.

I think the "inner mommy war" can be a form of narcissism, if you find yourself trying to be a better mom than everyone you know (whether it's trying to prove you can juggle more responsibilities, or give more of yourself to your kids). I'm not trying to be the best mom, I'm just trying to be a decent mom for my kids.

If I start feeling guilty or otherwise angst-ridden, I take it as a sign things are out of balance, and try to find something to change.

Ick, somebody had to mention cleaning bathrooms-- I need to go do that.

"At Christmas we gave the teacher a $30 gc from Borders and the assistants $15 gc from block buster. Maybe that was a faux paus (sp?). We also gave $20 to bus driver and $15 for his assistant. I don't think I was going to give anything to the bus staff this year for TA because they are not really teachers. We give $50 gc for a pizza lunch for the day care staff."

Geez! No wonder raising a kid is so expensive!

Where did you folks learn to tip everyone you come in contact with? It's insane!!!

Kim --

Usually much, much more.

These are not nice people.

Posted by: Chasmosaur | February 28, 2007 10:20 AM

There is nothing wrong with using a blow dryer on ice dams. I had to use one to get out my front door a couple of weeks ago as it was frozen shut (thank goodness there wasn't a fire or I would have been in trouble).

Argh, don't get me started on clothing for 4 and 5 year old girls! My DD just turned 5 and it's impossible to shop for her. Department stores sell mini versions of clothing I wouldn't want an 18 year old daughter to wear. Tummy baring, low rise, teeny tops. And shoes that a child can't run and play in - I think heels and open toes are really not good for the playground. Let's allow the children to be children for heaven's sake - not turn them into mini-adults with questionable taste.

Posted by: Stacey | February 28, 2007 10:14 AM

What stores are you people shopping at? I have a 4 yr old and I've never had a problem at Gap, Gymboree, Hanna Andersson (they all have great sales- I'm not loaded)
I stay away from Old Navy and "cheap" stores- they're the ones that carry hoochie outfits, but it's not hard to find nice clothes! Nordstrom has some nice clothes as well.

Kim --

Usually much, much more.

These are not nice people.

Posted by: | February 28, 2007 10:28 AM

a surprising number of the ones who post with names are nice people. Can't say the same for the anonymous trolls.

I don't think I am being tough on Leslie. I just don't now how many twists you can add to the so called mommy wars to keep the blog going. Also, I realize that since Leslie's paperback version is out this is probably a not so subtle hint at buying it - which is fine. I am all for self-promotion.

I do think it is funny that people are getting irritated at confident posters, like there something wrong if there is NOTHING wrong. I completely disagree with the poster who wrote something to the effect that people in the country walk around with bravado. I truly believe that we have all been coddled and conditioned to question every decision and aspect of our lives to the point of exhaustion. The pressure by society is not who is the most self-assured, it is who has the most self-doubt - oh - and "how can I get more attention for my problems?" I refuse to surrender to it.

Ohmygod - that was exhausting. I need a break, or better yet therapy.

I want to know where I can find pajamas with bugs on them. I think those would look great, and they are gender neutral too!

Not to be cynical, Leslie, but if there WERE a "permanent truce," no more "Mommy Wars," wouldn't that kind of put you out of a job? (At least this particular one.)

cmac: I am the first to offer suggested new topics to Leslie. I am referring to people suggesting she needs therapy etc... That is just rude.

The mommy wars I see are not about SAHM or WOHM, but I have teenagers so the issues are different. The battles I deal with are over things like co-ed sleepovers. One camp says "no way, not appropriate" and the other says "boys in one room, girls in another - not a big deal".

Another is teenage drinking. One camp says, "Not happening, it's illegal" and the other says "I would rather have them here where I know they are safe than out driving around. After all, kids will be kids". Parents who allow their children's BF or GF to go on vacation with them vs those who don't.

The problem with these wars is that there is a third aspect. The child is now a teenager, not a young child who blindly follows your decisions. There is much more resistance to your decisions because "everyone else does it" and actually, I did find in a few instances that others really are allowed to do things that I think are completely unacceptable. This doesn't mean that you give up parental responsiblity, just that there is another area of contention or differences that you may feel guilty about or second-guess yourself over.

John, too funny with the bug pjs comment. We crossed blogs. That should have been on On parenting. Anyway, my mother bought them at a discount store in up state NY called all for $10. Obviously every item in the store is $10. They do have some very realistic looking bugs. Not that cartoon version.

"The comment made earlier by cmac is ridiculous. To suggest that women who struggle with their decisions to work or stay home with their kids are blaming the country is absolutely something straight out of the Far Right NEO CON idiot playbook."

SYWanda --

You go, girl! Totally on target.

John, forgot to add, they are really not gender neutral. They were really meant to be for boys.

I meant to say "teenage drinking in the home with parent's permission/acceptance"

DD is three but can't imagine allowing co-ed over nights. I also don't think I would bring BF or GF on a family vacation. I would only bring another child on a family vacation, if I needed a play mate for my only child. But by the time they are old enough to have a BF or GF, shouldn't they be able to entertain themselves. We look for vacations that have something for everyone. I do realize that could be harder in the future. But we look at family vacations as family bonding time.

"I completely disagree with the poster who wrote something to the effect that people in the country walk around with bravado. I truly believe that we have all been coddled and conditioned to question every decision and aspect of our lives to the point of exhaustion. "

**************************
I, in turn, disagree. I don't know to what extent people have been coddled and conditioned and how much they actually, truly question and analyze everything they do and encounter - I maintain, however, that most people's public façade in this country tends to be one of loudly expressed confidence. Whether that reflects their true inner state, I don't know, of course. But neither do you, I supposed

I'm doing my darnedest to enlist in the Mommy Wars, so far no luck. Maybe someday...

My mommy angst is not so much related to my role as a mother or worker. I think I do those things to the best of my ability. But I do worry that I am not there enough for my husband. We just don't have as much alone time as we should. It is hard for both of us to put our other commitments aside and find time exclusively for each other. Evenings are family time. So are weekends for the most part. And at night after the kid is asleep we are both pretty much exhausted. The other day, we both scheduled a day off, in the middle of the week, when our son is in school, just so that we can be together by ourselves, uninterrupted, for more than an hour. This was really nice. But it had to be scheduled. It's not that we don't see each other all the time. It's that all our time seems to be consumed with activities that are related to either raising our son or maintaining our household, with the occasional extended family commitment that stretches us even further. Luckily, my husband and I are still friends, and we are able to squeeze in some moments even when things are tight. But I do miss those times before our son was born, when we could spontaneously just take a weekend trip away together and not answer to anyone or worry about anyone other than ourselves.

foamgnome, maybe I'll try to write a guest blog although writing is always easier in theory than practice - liik most things. Will you let us know what you decide and what happens both professionally and with the baby?

Frankly, if we are talking balance, I think a discussion on the social inequities would be awesome, especially how it affects kids. Kids in this country should NOT die from an infected tooth. We worry a lot about health care for the poor, but forget that dental is an issue as well. I always give tooth paste and tooth brushes when we do the baskets for the families our school sponsors throughout the year. YOu would be amazed at how many kids don't have a toothbrush! We spend a lot of time being mad at big pharma, but let's not forget the doctors and dentisits who refuse to serve Medicare/Medicaid patients. Coverage means nothing if there is no one to provide care!

Leslie,

"What do you think we need to do to find a permanent truce?"

As odd as it may sound, I hope that we don't find a permanent truce. At its base, the questions you are really asking are 'What is my role in this world? How do I best make a difference?'. These eternal questions should raise internal doubts -- always. It's that doubt that enables us to analyze our world, explore our feelings, and choose our pathes.

I honestly fear those who have no doubt -- those who haven't opened their decisions up to internal reflection.

That doesn't mean we should be paralyzed into inaction, nor excessively guilt-ridden on our decisions -- but it does mean we should question ourselves and our motives. That is how we as individuals and we as humanity move forward.

moxiemom: I will certainly let you guys know when our situation changes both professionally and personally. If your worried about writing, Leslie will edit it and then ask you to approve it. She will do a basic grammar and spelling check but also loosely reorganize and tighten up the article. She will also ask a question if it does not seem obvious to her and suggest word changes. I really do suggest that other write a guest blog. I think people have good ideas and are just initimated at the idea of writing. But it does not have to be a well researched idea or even well written. Hey, that is what editors get paid to do. I like both of your ideas moxiemom. I just think if it is a full guest blog, it will be easier to talk about versus segway conversations.

I've been able to find some cute things at Target that are not hoochie. Just as age appropriate as clothing at Gymboree and Children's Place, for both a 4 year old girl and 2 year old boy. And JcPenney's has good stuff also, with lots of sales.

My favorite way to shop is at Gymboree and Children's Place at the end of the season, guestimating what size the kids will be when that season rolls around. You can get really good deals that way, as long as your kid doesn't go through an unexpected growth spurt.

hmm, mommy wars. wonder why leslie brought this up today? cough "The paperback came out yesterday..." cough

No private internal mommy war here either.

But while it would be easy to just say that and to walk away and enjoy my day without wondering *why* some mothers continue to fight the internal mommy war...why not ask

"What do you think would change the internal mommy war for you?"

"If it is a personal war, should the change come internally rather than externally?"

My biggest personal "mommy war" is letting my marriage problems get out of control and being a contributor to my marriage failure.

Funny - I advocated and put my kids first instead of my husband and marriage. I felt my husband should have done the same. We actually should have put each other and our marriage first. A very common mistake/snafu.

Ever wonder why a lot of marriages are strained after the arrival of children? Fatigue, stress, lack of time = less effort into the marriage. Which then can equate to marriage breakdown if not resolved in a timely fashion.

My mommy wars are internal; I always wish I could do more for my daughter.

As for the external mommy wars, I don't care what anyone else thinks; he/she is not paying my bills. Most people have never walked in my shoes, and I have no use for arm-chair quaterbacking from someone who has never been on the field, let alone faced fourth and goal (i.e., really tough unilateral decisions to make that affect more than myself).

I smile when I read postings here regarding, "Oh my spouse doesn't do an equal share of ______ (fill in the blank)." Spend a week in my world, and all of a sudden, your spouse will start to look pretty good.

I say, lighten up and count your blessings. Given some of the truly difficult personal battles so many are facing, most of these "mommy wars" are pretty myopic. I would hate to be the mother whose child died because I could not afford $80 to have a tooth removed. And today, some 30,000 children under five years of age will die, most of them from starvation or a preventable disease.

foamgnome, I was just kidding. gawsh :-P

Single and denied,

Your gifts are better than anything purchased in a store.

True admiration and appreciation can't be bought.

FWIW, the only time I really feel that grawing sense of unease about my decision is when the alumni magazine from the women's college I attended comes to my house every couple of months. It always seems to feature some woman my age who developed a cure for cancer while working full-time and raising six kids (three with special needs) who spends her vacations in India volunteering with Mother Theresa's organization. OH, and she's always really rich -- and her house is bigger than mine. And cleaner!

-----------

No kidding! I used to get the magazine "working mother" through my child's daycare, and it was all about rich, ridiculously successful, and, OH, did I mention fabulously gorgeous, working moms. And each such story included advice from these moms about how to get where they are. I suppose it's meant to be supportive and encouraging, but I just felt like this magazine was written by and for a bunch of rich women who were thumbing their noses in everyone else's face and totally out of touch with "normal" people. It didn't help that much of the advice was along the lines of "I'm too busy to read bedtime stories to my kid in person so I tape record them and have his babysitter play the tapes at bedtime" or "I bring my kid along on my monthly business trips to Paris because otherwise I wouldn't see her very often. It's great for her and easier for me!" or "I have an appointment with my kid every night at 7 for a workout in our state-of-the-art home gymnasium. That's how we spend quality time together. It only costs $25000 to get one of these, it fits great in our 8 bedroom house, and it's SO worth it". I just couldn't relate to this kind of advice or to the superhectic lives these women seemed so happy to lead (even though I loved my job, I didn't REALLY want to do it 7 days a week). I cancelled my subscription.

"people in this country seem to have a strange (to me) need to stress again and again how confident they are, and how strong - - and how right. No room for doubt. I find it precludes valuable discussion sometimes."

Yes. The name George W. Bush comes to mind...

Hi Leslie,

If I saw you on the playground and you were dressed for an interview and looked nice, that's what I would mean if I commented on it. :)

Here are the notions that helped me reduce (though probably never completely eliminate) the internal Mommy Wars.

1. Turn off the TV.
2. Remember that there's no way to get an A in mothering.
3. Turn off the TV.
4. Play to your strengths. Nobody is perfect at everything.
5. Turn off the TV.
6. Appreciate other mothers' strengths, especially if they are different from yours.
7. Did I mention turn off the TV?
8. Consider the source of any criticism -- perceived or direct -- that you get. Do you really need to care about it?
9. Finally, turn off the TV.

By way of background, I live in a suburb of Boston well known for its excellent schools. Mothering in this town is a brutally competitive sport that I've decided not to play. I worked professionally for 18 years, 8 of which were after my girls were born, and I was criticized for that. I've been at home for the last 8 years, which I never anticipated when I left my last job -- I always thought I would want to work -- and I've been criticized for that, too. My inner critic pops up from time to time, and sometimes that can be a spur to do things I've been putting off. But if it's just an expression of perfectionism, I've tried to learn to let it go.

I say, lighten up and count your blessings. Given some of the truly difficult personal battles so many are facing, most of these "mommy wars" are pretty myopic. I would hate to be the mother whose child died because I could not afford $80 to have a tooth removed. And today, some 30,000 children under five years of age will die, most of them from starvation or a preventable disease.

Posted by: single western mom | February 28, 2007 10:56 AM

Single Western Mom - What put Leslie's article in perpsective for me today was reading a series of articles in the Wash Times (GASP!) about women in India that are beaten and hung by their husbands and MILs because they produced a female child. Girl babies are rountinely given up for adoption - where they languish in a faciality with no education their whole lives. Females are not educated or valued, they can legally have acid thrown in their face for adultery. I won't even get into Muslim women and their plight.

So when I looked at Leslie's blog and thought about all the injustice in the world to women and mothers, I thought it was trivial and frankly meaningless in the whole scheme of things. People can complain all they want about their husbands not cleaning up, or being "made to feel bad" by other women (and strangely their country), but don't expect everyone to say AMEN.

Yes, I agree - count your blessings - there are women all over this world that would kill to be in our soft, cushy, shoes.

"a surprising number of the ones who post with names are nice people."

Actually not true. NC lawyer is a good example.

"Parents who allow their children's BF or GF to go on vacation with them vs those who don't."

What about single parents who bring THEIR BFs and GFs on vacation and overnight stays??

"I refuse to surrender to it.

Ohmygod - that was exhausting. I need a break, or better yet therapy."

Yeah, well, the unexamined life seems to work just fine for you, cmac. Ignorance is balance.

Single western mom, I'm with you on that opinion. I've got several friends raising children on their own (or with minimal help from the other parent), and it's a tough job with little opportunity for positive feedback or praise. One friend in particular I make a point of telling I admire and respect her for her devotion to her children, but at the same time encourage her to take some time for herself as well. She's earned it IMO!

11:14: I don't bring BF or GF on vacation because frankly I am married. If I brought a BF on vacation, I think DH would divorce me. And vice versa. But that is an interesting question about single parents. FIL is now a single parent with joint custody of his two children from his second marriage. He did bring his GF on the family beach vacation but they slept in separate beds. I actually think that is OK. Especially because 1/2 the time they live with their mother and her BF at the same house. BTW, Mother and BF are getting married this fall. But if I was single, I would not sleep in same bed with BF while DD was a child. But then again, I hope to stay married, so it is not an issue for us.

"I maintain, however, that most people's public façade in this country tends to be one of loudly expressed confidence. Whether that reflects their true inner state, I don't know, of course. But neither do you, I supposed"

Ajax, We teach our kids to be confident then they get knocked down for having bravado - what is that about? It is okay to be confident however it is very chic to be helpless and whiny.

Again, whatever floats your boat. I don't see anything wrong with people being outwardly confident, but apparently you do. Whether they cry all night because of self-esteem problems is another story. Our media and culture has been relying on Oprah and Dr. Phil for so long that most people think there is something wrong with them if there is nothing wrong with them.

I am finding that my "internal mommy war" is starting now that my DDs are older (5 and 8). I was quite confident with my choice to return to work after having both children. I did switch jobs from one that required me to travel frequently to a "desk job", so that I could be sure of my schedule and spend more time with my kids, but I was very comfortable with my decisions.

Fast forward to now, when both children are in elementary school, and I find myself constantly second-guessing my choice. I find is difficult to make it to school parties, presentantions and events, which are usually scheduled in the middle of the day (My commute varies from 45 -75 minutes). I find the guilt I feel when I miss something to be overwhelming. Extracurricular activities are very difficult to juggle. Homework also requires a great deal of time. All of the sudden, I find myself thinking that I need to be at home.

I don't think there is ever one easy answer. My goal is try and figure out what is best for my family as opportunities present themselves. Right now I am looking at a potential job-sharing situation, but who know if that will make everything better, or cause me to feel like I am spreading myself too thin, as some mentioned in a blog about working part-time last week.

dang. My alumni newsletter just arrived along with a convenient way of donating money to the university- as if I would do that when I am still paying for their paper hanging on my wall. I know I have done some things others might deem exciting or noteworthy, especially in my few years- but they seem to really ham it up in those magazines. I would love to see them highlight their NORMAL alumni for a change so we can share in the small successes of the average joe- and not just focus on millionaire CEOs and such. Maybe having millions of dollars is noteworthy, but so is making an honest living as an employee, or being a parent. We can not all grow up to be psychopathic astronauts!

"a surprising number of the ones who post with names are nice people."

Actually not true. NC lawyer is a good example.

Posted by: | February 28, 2007 11:14 AM

as if you know her. it is early in the day for attack posts.

To 11:16. Just because one doesn't stress over every stupid little thing that comes up in life does not mean you live an unexamined life. You're just smart enough to pick your battles and live for yourself and your family and not for people who find it necessary to judge what you're doing.

Guess what? I have never and will never give teacher gifts.....and I'm OK WITH THAT. (I'm also ok with other people giving teacher gifts -- don't care either way.)

cmac and others. Of course there are women and all sorts of people in other countries who live under terrible condtions that are not even remotely comparable to our lives. And comparatively, anything that we might discuss here, from the mommy wars, whether or not to have more than one child, FMLA, job flexibility, older mothers, younger mothers, working mothers, sahm mothers, equal parenting, you name it, will seem completely trivial in comparison to the life and death situations that tragically occur in other places and cultures.

But this blog is not about the treatment of Muslim women or Indian women or the starvation of people in developing countries, or any of those topics. It is about balance in our lives as we live them. And so we discuss what may be trivial in the greater scheme of things, because our entire lives are mostly comprised out these trivial matters. Yes, I am thankful for my blessings. But that does not mean that I can't think about or shouldn't discuss the little things that make my life more challenging or difficult or even better. Everything is relative, and what is important to me may be minor to many other people, but that does not make in any less important to me.

"I refuse to surrender to it.

Ohmygod - that was exhausting. I need a break, or better yet therapy."

Yeah, well, the unexamined life seems to work just fine for you, cmac. Ignorance is balance.

Posted by: | February 28, 2007 11:16 AM

Why don't you write a guest blog - the unexamined life - and enlighten us all? I really need more advise from an anonymous poster that dispenses one liners. I guess your guest blog would be really short.

I don't have any children and probably never will, but I have to admit that if I ever did, I'd probably end up being a real Gen-X "slacker mom". I'd probably cobble together Halloween costumes at the last minute, stick with the cheapo paper valentines, and even (gasp!) let the kids walk to school by themselves once I was confident they knew the way around our generally-safe neighborhood and knew not to play in traffic or talk to strangers. My parents were like this, too. They weren't perfect parents, but who is perfect at anything? They got the big things right- loved each other, loved us and told us so, provided for us economically, didn't let the house become unsanitary, took care of our health. They went above and beyond in some ways that I think children can often take for granted, by having us eat dinner together as a family whenever our schedules allowed it, getting us involved in activities and exposing us to art, culture, sports, etc., and paying for most of our college educations. My brother and I turned out pretty different, mostly because of innate temperement, gender, birth order, and lots of other things our parents couldn't control. Neither of us is perfect either, but we both turned out OK. I worry much less for the future of the children of the parents on this blog, who are all very engaged with their children, than for the ones who are abused or neglected, or whose parents want to provide for them in the most basic ways, but can't, like the kid mentioned earlier who died for want of dental treatment.

I try not to get too caught up in what others think of me or how I compare with them. It's not always easy, but it's good for one's sanity. I suspect it could also help defuse some of the internal "Mommy Wars".

, boobs"a surprising number of the ones who post with names are nice people."

No, the opposite is closer to the truth.

Texas Dad of 2 is a real A-hole who is overcompensating for having a small penis. Father of 4 is a sexist jerk who hits his kid, has a little kid fetch him beers, etc.

There are a couple of smug, self righteous know-it-alls that I can do without.

The Nursing Nazis and the God Squad make unwanted appearances, from time to time.

And there are a bunch of airheads, boobs, and windbags who are always begging to get pricked and are shocked and confused when it happens.

"Ajax, We teach our kids to be confident then they get knocked down for having bravado - what is that about? It is okay to be confident however it is very chic to be helpless and whiny.

Again, whatever floats your boat. I don't see anything wrong with people being outwardly confident, but apparently you do. "

I did not say it was wrong to be outwardly confident. I'm trying to say that it seems silly if it doesn't match your inner state. I also think there's a difference between confidence and bravado. Less substance behind the latter.

On a side note, I find your tone a bit rude sometimes.

"But that does not mean that I can't think about or shouldn't discuss the little things that make my life more challenging or difficult or even better. Everything is relative, and what is important to me may be minor to many other people, but that does not make in any less important to me.

Posted by: Emily | February 28, 2007 11:22 AM"

I am not playing Mother Teresa here (speaking of Inda) - I am merely giving you my perspective. I am all for posting whatever you want on whatever blog necessary but that doesn't mean I have to agree either. I complain about my husband, kids, work, life, this blog too - who doesn't? Your post is tantamount to the "put people in their place" post as much as mine. I am telling people not to sweat the small stuff and you are telling people - sweat all you want.

Honestly, I think reading a news story on women that is truly mind-boggling then picking up Leslie's fluff peice brought about the perfect storm for me.

Oh, and Irish, you are just such a gem, full of insight and compassion, such a pleasure to read, such a ray of sunshine on this blog otherwise filled with such unsavory characters. Thanks for sharing.

And then there's "Irish on St. Patrick's Day", who is just the NICEST person I've ever met.

Newposter: I like both Chidlren's Place and Gymboree but they are pretty expensive. I will have to check out their end of season sales. I agree Hanna Anderson and Nordstroms have wonderful kid stuff. Just they are pricey.

On a side note, I find your tone a bit rude sometimes.

Posted by: Ajax | February 28, 2007 11:30 AM

We finally agree on something - you sound a little rude too.

Emily, how un-PC of you! ;-)

If you want to fit in you should resent any and all things you worked for that give you a better life than most of the people in the rest of the world. You should despise the fact you are an American and apologize for it to everyone who even looks like they are a foreigner. Lastly, you should take your freedoms and rights for granted, while working hard to speak ignorantly on behalf of those who would torture and kill you if they had the chance. I mean, come on! EVERYONE is doing it. ;-)

Wow! I just read through a bunch of the posts since I posted an hour or so ago... and with all the nitpicking and snarkiness, it's easy to see how and why Mommy Wars come about. Can't we just play nice? At least until about 4p or so?

Wow! I just read through a bunch of the posts since I posted an hour or so ago... and with all the nitpicking and snarkiness, it's easy to see how and why Mommy Wars come about. Can't we just play nice? At least until about 4p or so?

Posted by: Bad Mom | February 28, 2007 11:36 AM

None of the snarkiness (mine included) has anything to do with being mommies though, so the Mommy wars are not what is being fought here.

Okay, cmac. I get it. But I don't think anyone on this blog thinks that their little world is necessarily all there is in this vast universe. We all know there is bigger stuff out there than our ridiculously easy lives. But in the same context, if you are urging people not to sweat the small stuff, it seems to mean that you are irked by the fact that we sweat the small stuff, and by thus being irked, you are participating in sweating the small stuff. IMO, arguing about the value of sweating the small stuff is even smaller in significance than actually sweating the small stuff.

Dang Emily, beat me to it!
Ray of sunshine! LMAO!

CMAC, you are SUCH a pain in the neck!

cmac,
I hear ya. But we've got a forum to talk about some really good topics here and it seems to get ugly on a regular basis. I shouldn't have said this is the reason for the Mommy Wars, but I see how it easily this stuff turns bitter and into resentment. It's too bad.

Wow, did everyone crawl out of the cranky cave today? Must be to compensate for yesterday's relatively easygoing discussion.

Foamgnome, just wanted to say again thanks for your guestblog yesterday, it was a lovely day on the blog.

"I really need more advise from an anonymous poster that dispenses one liners."

Hsss (sound of windbag getting pricked)
1. You need to learn how to spell advice.
2. Look elsewhere for advice. What do these yokels know and who gives a hoot what they say, anway?
3. The one liners are the rare wit on this blog.

OK, let's call a truce in the rude or snarky war. How about discussing clothes? I know it isn't Friday but we seem to stay on safe ground about that. Or do we really need to relive the sage green sweater argument again? Don't worry I can take the heat from critics who think I am a totally ungrateful sage green sweater reciever.

"Wow, did everyone crawl out of the cranky cave today?"

That is because the craky cave is painted in (you know what color!)

Emily - I will take my own advise and drop it, thus sweating nothing but the coffee I drank this morning.

BTW; Your over-analysis of the small stuff is what I am talking about, which in turn makes me adverse to my own rule gain, which I refuse to sweat over any more.

My next sweat will be at the gym tomorrow morning.

CMAC, you are SUCH a pain in the neck!

Posted by: | February 28, 2007 11:41 AM

Thanks!

I don't particularly fret about the day-to-day things for my kids (clothes, toys, medical issues--I'm very lucky, I know!). I DO worry about whether or not I am providing enough stability and structure to my children to counteract my husband's regular breakdowns (he's bipolar AND borderline, what a nightmare); particularly for our eldest, who has observed and borne the brunt of more of the behaviours (pre-diagnoses).

But I figure that as I haven't denied the observations and effects, I'm doing okay.

Fretting over everything is simply perfectionism. Indulge your inner goof sometimes, it's much healthier.

No, no mommy wars for me.

FG, I give the teachers gift cards to a book store. I wouldn't presume to know their personal choices in reading material, but I do hazard a guess that they enjoy reading.

Sometimes I just give the school library a donation in honor of the teacher(s).

Bad Mom,

if Irish on St. Patrick's Day has her way, everyone with a sense of humor will have been driven away from the blog long before 4. If she doesn't, we'll get to talk about sparkling bathrooms and teacher gifts and the snarks who weren't even satisfied with yesterday's comments (a la the nasty person who deemed it "navalgazing") will get bored, go away and ruin someone else's sandbox.

John said,

"Everyone has doubts relating to the big decisions they made in their lives. That's normal."

I disagree. If you know who you are, what your values are, and what your purpose is, I don't understand having doubts about the big decisions. As an extreme example, even if I end up divorced, marrying my husband was not a mistake; it was the right big decision at the time, and hopefully forever. The small ones? Sure, because we spend less time making those decisions and the consequences of getting them wrong are so much less. The devil, I suppose, is in which decisions we each think belong in the Big bucket vs. the Small bucket.

and, gosh, I almost forgot, to anon at 11:14, it must be tiring to lurk unidentified only to call out posters you don't know by name and make pronouncements about their character. If you always make judgments about people on so little information and without having met them, it's no wonder you have so much misdirected anger.

""a surprising number of the ones who post with names are nice people."

Actually not true. NC lawyer is a good example."

NC Lawyer did not say everyone who goes by a name is nice.

I will stick up for NC Lawyer as she (1) usually has well thought out comments or responses to comments others make (2) usually is not snarky and (3) usually signs her posts--CRS excepted-- and (4) has consistency in what she says and how she leads her life.

cmac-
I just returned from a quickie at the gym. I needed the stress buster. What a workout. Something called bootcamp. Though I can actually concentrate now.

and don't read anything ummm...untoward in this.

I like the idea of a gift of book for the class room or library. I thought about that too late after filling out her scholastic book form for school. I will try to remember that next time.

big article by Ruth Rosen in the Nation:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070312/rosen

Leslie will love this...

"as if you know her. it is early in the day for attack posts."

I do. She is.

hey nclawyer:
You hit on a good thought there. People can be having an honest discussion/disagreement. And then along comes a fly-by-night one liner from someone else. Away goes the dialogue and in comes the snark. Makes me sad because, last I heard, people are allowed to disagree.

Foamgnome

"How about discussing s talk about clothes."

"Don't worry I can take the heat from critics who think I am a totally ungrateful sage green sweater reciever."

Ssssss (sound of crashing bore who can't spell getting pricked.) But not to worry, she can take the heat!

"a la the nasty person who deemed it "navalgazing""

I guess that this person was looking at ocean going ships.

Wow - I was at my husband's office yesterday, helping my daughter to deliver Girl Scout cookies to all those wise enough not to say no (snark) to my precious 6 year old, when I noticed that 90% of the walls in his new office building were painted - sage green!

The horror . . .

I actually think that if you are going to give a teacher any kind of gift, it should be for her, not for the school or the school library. I think a gift card to a bookstore or coffee shop is a great idea. I also like the idea of a card or letter of appreciation, especially if handmade by the child. At our school, we have a staff appreciation lunch, and I always send in my extra special homemade dessert. If I want to donate a book to the library, I donate it to the library. But the teacher should get something more personal.

Hmmm. I dunno - I have a daughter, have worked since she was 3 months old with no regrets and no guilt. Is that wierd? Sometimes I think we're just in an historical cycle where people really like YELLING. Turn on the tv and people will yell about anything - we're polarized and disagreeing about everything - the "Mommy Wars" are just another aspect of this. I guess personally I have some pretty strong views about working generally, but I tend to keep them to myself, just put my head down and my husband & I go about our days just like everyone else, doing the best we think we can.

"I really need more advise from an anonymous poster that dispenses one liners."

Well, cmac, your one-liner about therapy seemed like a pretty snarky put-down. You routinely ridicule the notion of therapy, which serves to accomplish two things:

1. It makes people who need therapy and/or are in therapy feel badly about themselves.

2. It makes you feel superior.

So, you're really the one bucking for Queen of the Nasty One-Liners," aren't you?

cmac-
I just returned from a quickie at the gym. I needed the stress bust