first!

First, you got me. I'm crushed.

I wanted to be first or 50,000th. I am crusted!

Wow, 3 posts and not one relevant to the topic. How mature.

Wow, 3 posts and not one relevant to the topic. How mature.

Duh - Yours make four!

I admit to going overboard at Christmas, but I also find myself saying 'no' a lot, too. My girls are 11 and 13 and we have started making them pay for their own 'extras', like iTunes, purses, jewelry, etc. They will not get a brand new car when they turn 16. It is amazing how much they can do without when they have to pay!

Still, they have a lot more than I did. Does that ever change?

Our best investments (or maybe VLIs) would be as much travel (yes, even overseas) as our budget will stretch to, books, and our boat which allows us to "camp" on the water on summer weekends. Also 529s for college savings.

Hey, it's Friday. My brain is burned out by all our discussions this week. Maybe we just need a slow warm-up this morning...and I, for one, would rather stick my head in the sand about how much raising my kids costs, since it is a small fortune and we're only one decade into the game.

I read that article this week and actually felt sort of sick after reading it. It begins by describing a 5,000 dollar birthday party for a six year old. The author tried to get at WHY people make the decisions they do about how to spend money on their kids -- although lazy journalists always seem to trot out that old saw about how deep down parents today are motivated by "fear" -- you know, all that stuff about how in this ultracompetitive world, people feel like it's necessary to buy all this crap for your kids or they'll be left behind somehow. It's like this herd mentality, where no one wants to be seen as "cheap" - and where for a lot of people, spending money does seem to equate with love.

However, I think flagrant displays of spending are more likely to be motivated by stupidity and narcissism.

Here are my biggest mistakes thus far in my short parenting career:

1. Gymboree for two year olds. Complete waste of money
2. Elaborate birthday parties (got sucked into that for a while, but thankfully now we're back to cake at the pool and hot dogs too, if you're lucky)
3. expensive summer camps
4. wish I had said 'no' to more birthday invites for more kids and saved the money on the expensive birthday presents -- particularly when there's no real relationship with the family
5. We took a cruise earlier this year, motivated mostly by peer pressure and the feeling that we were missing something. Hated it and wish I could have the money back.

NEXT?

I don't spend much on them (2, 6 mos.), but am a stay-at-home mom and a cloth diaperer (as often as possible). thus, they get me 24/7 and hopefully a cleaner environment when they're older. too bad their wardrobes are mostly sweats from Wal-Mart ($3/pop) because that's the only thing to fit over their big bums. you should see the looks we get at playgroup where the rest of the kids are in designer this-and-that. oh well.

The best home investment:
When each of our three children turned 18 months old we purchased them the cheapest E-Machines PC [usually $300] as 'their' computer. They have grown up learning how to use and maintain them -- and although they are all still in elementary school [5th, 4th and K] they all know the basics on how to use Word, Excel, and Powerpoint [and routinely use them to complete homework].

2nd best home investment:
We eliminated all TVs in the house -- but we have one InFocus projector that is hooked up in our basement. 'Movie night' is a big deal -- because everything they watch is on the equivalent of a 120" screen [note -- Scooby Doo is a very big do]. The Sony 400-DVD changer was a nice addition -- no more loose DVDs all over the basement.

I pay an extra 50 bucks a month so my daughter can do music and me at school. She loves it! As far as huge birthday parties go, we don't do them. She celebrates in Ohio with her family. I buy clothes at Target, Macy's, and Old Navy.

I just don't get all the extravagance!

The best investments have nothing to do with money. The trips to the library and the extra hugs, kisses and simple fun times today bring the big payoffs.

The close connection of parents, siblings and pets forged by a strong loving supportive family life lasts longer than a lifetime. It is the stuff that dreams are made of.

I think the same people that are status-conscious for themselves are status-conscious for their children. Thus, the parents that feel the need to have the "right" clothes and "right" car etc. often get fooled into all the other nonsense for their kids.

My husband and I used to joke that our daughter's only experience in "private school" was going to be her one year at a daycare center, which probably put us back about $12k.

We have always been comfortable with money - we have what we need, and even enough for extras without special budgeting, but we are just naturally frugal people so I'm sure that's why the money is available when we want it. I don't want my child to be deprived, but I don't see the point in shopping for her at Benetton rather than Target.

I think the best investment we are making in her future is the money we regularly commit to her college fund, and more importantly, the time we spend together as a family. We've had wonderful experiences together and she's learning and growing so quickly (she's 2.5) and I think it's because of all the things we do together that don't cost a dime.

My kids will never experience a Disney vacation, nor have they ever flown on a plane.

The Jones' are kicking mty ass and I feel guilty that I'm bringing down the property values in our neighborhood because I don't have a SUV parked in front of my house.

Or a hottub in the back...

However, I do have pictures, artwork, and a few cards pinned up on the divider that decorate my office. that counts for something, right?

Best Investment so far (just for reference my children are 3 and 5 and I stay at home):

Preschool starting at 2.5 and all the arts and craft supplies that litter my breakfast nook

Worst Investments: Expensive clothes (don't do anymore, we usually just use credit card points for free Landsend and then get the rest from either Target, Walmart, or Old Navy) half of their toys (trying to curb the amount they get, we are doing MUCH better)

I grew up having very little (in both material goods and in a stable family life). I want my child to have "more" than what I had on both fronts. I see nothing wrong with that. Some on this Board seem to equate having "things" with being spoiled rotten, entitled, etc. I personally don't see having some nice things and being brought up to be a nice, well-mannered responsible person as mutually exclusive.

However, I will draw the line. My intended do's and don'ts for expenditures:

Yes to vacations, esp. oversees travel, which I feel can be very educational and mind-opening (to see beyond their little world at home). Yes to as much college education as we can afford. Yes, to the fees and such that go along with school extracurricular activities including sports, music, class trips. Yes, to a modest allowance. I will prob. also spoil a LITTLE at Christmas (i.e., one "big" present from mom and dad).

No to extravagent birthday parties, or extravagent parties of any kind. No to tv's in the room and "brand name" clothes except for "special" gifts (see above) or if they are willing to pay for it. No to a car when she turns 16 unless she is willing to help cover the cost of the car, insurance, gas, etc.

These are all I can think of now.

Good investments: We got family memberships at some of the area museums, i.e. Natl Zoo, Aquarium in Baltimore, and some of the smaller, lesser-knowns like the College Park Aviation Museum. They pay for themselves pretty quickly. (i.e. parking at the Zoo is free with membership and the cost is recouped in about 3 visits.) The events bulletins we get as part of the memberships remind us to go more often. We love it. Great educational, family activities, and we go somewhere almost every weekend. (BTW, if you haven't been to the Aquarium in Baltimore with your kids, GO! It's just an amazing place.)

Played cards with 3 y.o. DD last night. So fun! Number recognition, A, K, Q, J too.... Simple time, making up games, playing a drum, strumming a guitar - five minutes can be worth more than a trip to Disneyworld - you just need to deccelerate (sp?) and recognize that these are the good 'ol days.

Anybody being tortured by Webkins games? AAARGH. Cant get DD 10y.o. off the home computer ever since she got one for Christmas.

Banning TV during the week was instrumental for regaining control of the blue light addicts, only goes on to keep younger DD from hitting defcon 6 at days end - or to keep little attention hound away from the older kids while they are sequestered for all this *^$&^$ homework they get.

Money issues? Feed them Ramen noodles and Tang!

A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove...but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child.

I'm glad many people are pointing out that time is the best investment. Hasn't this been studied - your kids just want your time? Instead of the expensive Spring Break vacation that many families I know are are taking my husband and I are taking 3 days off that week, going hiking on Sugar Loaf Mountain one day (good hike for elementary kids), going to the movies one day, and leaving the third day open for anything that pops up.

My kids are fine with watching movies together and making pancakes on the weekends. They don't ask for all the expensive stuff like Cruises. We don't rule them out in the future but it is nice to know that my kids don't feel like they are missing out.

Shopping note again - department stores have great clearance sales at the end of seasons - combine it with coupons and it is silly. Old Navy rules (again, clearance items) and good old Target.

Most expensive monthly item for us as a family - groceries.

I was joking the other day about how I almost never buy new clothes for my kids. My 13 year old is constantly getting comments on her great clothes--mostly bought at consignment shops or thrift sales (but all brand name) or hand me downs from friends. We use Freecycle a lot too. I think they benefit from seeing the ability to reuse items. We also can use the money saved for something else they may want to do: concerts, art lessons, bikes, travel, whatever.

Our worst investment was Catholic school. We moved our kids to public school last year and what a blessing (yes, blessing!) that has been.

One of our better investments has been owning a home. We have owned two homes since our children have been around that were fixers when we bought them. Our children see that you CAN afford a nice house with a little sweat equity. They have learned how to paint and patch and decorate a diamond in the rough and make it a real gem.

Another great investment has been a community pool membership. This has given our kids a summer activity that promotes exercise, team work (swim and dive teams), and being a part of the community. They also see a place for future work opportunities. First babysitting, then snack bar, then coaching. Not every one's cup of tea, but it works for us!

Re: birthday parties: when my son was in kindergarten, the parents would routinely gather in the kitchen, take turns helping the parents, and talk and laugh about life. First grade, I sent him to some spendy private school. At his first birthday party I was sort of hurt when the mom acted like she didn't want me around. She said her party consultant had told her the grownups should get out of the way. Party consultant? ¿¿Huh??

Re: birthday parties: when my son was in kindergarten, the parents would routinely gather in the kitchen, take turns helping the parents, and talk and laugh about life. First grade, I sent him to some spendy private school. At his first birthday party I was sort of hurt when the mom acted like she didn't want me around. She said her party consultant had told her the grownups should get out of the way. Party consultant? ¿¿Huh??

My son will turn 4 this year and I'll probably spend about $200 bucks on his party between rental, balloons, and food. I've never had a birthday party for him. The most expensive thing I've purchased is his convertible carseat. I think that was between $150-$200. Good deal too because it lasted almost 3 years.

contrary to a lot of the complaints about life in DC, I feel that our decision to move back here when our oldest kids were 4 & 2 was one of the best investments we could have made in their childhoods. all the museums and the zoo are free, and the exposure to different cultures and politics are invaluable.

funny Armchair Mom mentions the cruise-- yesterday a co-worker was telling me how wonderful Disney cruise line is and that he never heard anyone say anything negative about them and that i really MUST take my family. I almost fell for it, but I think you have brought me to me senses! My little guy seems happy as is-- why spend lots of money on a cruise?

My biggest regret is that we used hand-me-down carseats and they are OK, (not unsafe at least) but I wonder if my child would be happier if i had let him select his very own carseat. Since he is 3 now, it seems too late in the game to get an expensive new carseat, but next kid i will splurge. I may get a bugaboo stroller with the next kid too-- love the way they are so adaptable. Maybe I'll find a used one.

I'm sorry, but the Wall Street Journal figure just does not compute for me. Let's assume that all of my income has gone to "feed, house, clothe, educate and entertain" our children and to care for their health -- an obvious overestimate which does not include expenses for my wife and me, for example, nor what we have paid in taxes to feed, house, clothe, educate and entertain other people's children and to pay for vital government programs such as ballistics research and army materiel systems analysis. And let's suppose that over seventeen years for each child, this has amounted to $800,000 per child (the Journal's low estimate), for a total of $2,400,000 for all three of our children.

Divide this by the 22 years between the birth of our oldest and the time our youngest reached age 17, and you get more than $109,000 per year, on average, that we have supposedly spent on our children. The problem is that we have never taken home anywhere near that much in any year, let alone over a sustained period of 22 years.

But then, we are not readers of the Wall Street Journal. No doubt, the Journal's estimated cost of child-raising will inspire even more readers of "On Balance" to keep putting in the 200 hours per week of billable time at the law firm so that they can eventually make partner and afford to put their children all the way through high school. And while they're doing that, they should make sure and put enough aside to send the kids to Princeton, too.

The best investment I SHOULD have made.

I was pregnant with my first child when we bought our house and didn't know anything about family life.

We bought a house with a kitchen so small 2 people could not cook safely at the same time. The space issue created enormous problems when I was trying to teach my kids to cook and bake. Holiday cookies had to spread out in the dining room, etc. and what should have been really fun times were quite stressful.

I managed, but I should have bought a house with a bigger kitchen.

Second floor laundry room would have been nice too.

25 years of carrying laundry baskets up and down stairs gets a little old sometimes.

The truth is I live like a Queen compared to my Grandmother, and I am very grateful for everything I do have.

I may get a bugaboo stroller with the next kid too-- love the way they are so adaptable.

That stroller is $900. Do you know how many strollers you can buy for $900?

I agree with Leslie about living in DC. My kids visit museums, the zoo, and fun new neighborhoods (and cheap international restaurants) frequently. We live in a very tiny house in a safe city neighborhood. Our house is completely unrenovated, we have one 10-year-old car, and our only family vacations are to visit the beach off-season and visit friends/family. In other words, we live very unextravagant lives. Our main luxuries are 1) having one parent work only part-time while the kids are little, and 2) sending our older child to private school, which, despite receiving a partial scholarship, is a huge expense for us. That's the only downside of living in the city: our neighborhood public school is not the best.

Well, we did do disney, b/c I wanted to see my grandmother and take the kids, so driving was the most economical. So we stopped at disney on the way home. And it was exhausting but so much fun and I can't wait to go back (no matter what the kids think).

But we aren't too extravagant. Last year's bday party waas at the house we downloaded some activities from the computer, and they played outside. No we're not inviting the whole class-that is too many kids.

And yes we've been to jamaica twice with the kids, we needed and wanted a vacation (the second time I worked for a hotel co., tho).

We don't buy any toys, family members do that for us. We have too many toys, tho. And I *love* consignment sales.

The stove I bought my wife for Valentine's Day was delivered in a cardboard box.

For a 4 year old, it was hours and hours of unadulterated, uninterrupted, exillerating fun.

He did cry for a minute though, when he bumped his head while riding it down the steps, but still, plenty of Kodak moments and memories that will last a lifetime.

Just a comment about the Bugaboo - I actually think it is worth every penny (though probably not the most expensive one). We use that thing everyday and are planning to continue using for kid 2. One stroller that can be used for 5+ years, in my opinion, is better than having to buy 3-4 strollers. But to each their own...

Matt in Aberdeen - nice crack about us lawyers at law firms. I think you are under some misperceptions about (1) how many hours we work, (2) our desire to make partner, and (3) our desire/ability to spend $100,000/year on our children.

Many people confuse spending on material items and lavish events with caring for and spending time with their children. Children really want to know that their parents love them and care about them. Limiting material items (the hottest labels and things) develops a greater appreciation for those items when they are received. I have 3 children: daughter 16, and 2 sons 15 and 5. The youngest has Down Syndrome which adds a whole different dimension to the family. My daughter worked for her trip to Germany last summer (during the World Cup). Other students could not believe she had to work to pay 30% of her way. The other parents marveled at her initiative. With the new video games (PS3, Xbox, Wii), cell phones, and Ipods people buy into the constant upgrade cycle. Does a high school kid really need a Treo? What happens when these kids get out on their own, will their parents continue to support their consumption? Will the kids amass amazing levels of consumer debt to maintain the upgrade cycle? You can bet they will. A guy at work once asked me how to punish his daughter - he couldn't send her to her room because she had a computer with internet connection, TV with cable, stereo, etc. I said to take her those things away - he seemed to be the one shocked by my suggestion.

Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Museum of Natural History in NYC are right up there for us, but we have enjoyed DC's spots too on trips down south. The Aerospace Museum out at Dulles is very stroller friendly btw.... even if it is a $15 umbrella stroller!

Car seats: Wall-Mart booster with reading lights and arm rests: $35

Bag of Dum-Dum pops $1.85 WAAAAy better than the 50cent ring pops!

Ice skating waaaay better than skiing!

I was able to take my kids overseas on a business trip with me - we made it into a family vacation. Invaluable! Not just being in other countries, but being there TOGETHER.

Yeah but for 900 dollars she could get one stroller. I wouldn't doubt that I've paid that over the years for strollers and never had the best I could get.

And when we renovated we put our laundry room upstairs. Best investment ever.

Actually my wife and I were talking about more children (we have a 9 month old son now). I was saying that at my modest single-earner income level, with her staying at home, and at our frugal but solidly middle-class standard of living, a second child should be ok, but a third child might force us down to a lower-middle class standard of living (economically speaking).

Does anyone have any thoughts about how much more expensive additional children are?

About the Bugaboo -- my sister has one and LOVES it. It seems extremely well made and versatile.

Totally off topic, but my favorite stroller by far of the 4 we've had is the Maclaren Volo. Lightweight, and with a carrying strap. Very, very sturdy.

"Wow, 3 posts and not one relevant to the topic. How mature.

Duh - Yours make four!"

This is why I don't post here anymore. The "Duh" person is an idiot. Nasty nasty people.

Annandale Mom, where are the consignment shops that you frequent? We love Paddington Station in Vienna, but their maximum size is children's 12.

I think some people use their children as status symbols. Designer clothes, bags and a new cadillac escalade for their 16 year old. High maintainence trophy wife in training!

TO anon at 09:09.....
Takes one to know one!

Our daughter is five and in kindergarten.

Best investment: Sending her to preschool last year. It was $250/month or so. I didn't think that she needed it, but in hindsight it really helped her to be ready for kindergarten. (That is why we sent her in the first place.) She adapted to the class pretty easily, but it would have been a lot harder had she not had the preschool experience first.

So far, I can't think of a worst investment. We're very frugal and are teaching her to be the same. However, it's amazing how much these costs seem to sneak up. Money for school pictures, school supplies that we have to provide to the public school, fees for a county-rec dance class, dental treatments, etc. I can afford these and I'm very grateful for that. But I think that child rearing costs more than we ever expect.

Costs that I will never pay--lavish birthday parties, gifts for others, or a car for her. Any money that she earns will go for college savings, not a car. Teenagers do not need to own cars.

I've been reading the comments and have to say that cruises are not that expensive. You can do really well if you compare them to actually going to Disney or Europe or wherever for a week where you have to buy your meals and the like.

Of course, flexibility is a key and if you have kids in school, you're limited and then it's competitive which is probably why they seem expensive.

Reading these comments reminded me of the horror show known as my sweet 16 on MTV -- when I flip by it I can't help but stop and watch the train wreck. I had a quiet lunch with some of my girlfriends to celebrate getting my permit (couldn't get license until 17 in NJ) for my sweet 16. I realized the other night that my favorite afghan was my sweet 16 present from my grandmother (she put my name and date on it)-- now that she is gone I treasure that handmade item more than some overblown party.

"My son will turn 4 this year and I'll probably spend about $200 bucks on his party between rental, balloons, and food."

$200 on party for a 4 year old? What a waste of money!!! Stick it in the college fund!

Note how most people are talking about stuff, stuff, and more stuff!! But we don't have a consumerism problem in this country?

The comment about 16th birthday reminded me of mine. I spent it in Puerto Rico as part of a church group. We earned the money to go through bake sales and babysitting, stayed at a church there and had a wonderful time (plus it was in Feb and I got to go home with a tan - a real plus for a yankee high schooler).

When I was growing up my mom did not even make $16,000 a year!

Books. If you want to buy something that will truly help your child with school and life don't skimp here.Children need a good number of their own books to begin a life long love of reading. Love doesn't cost anything just love them.

Worst Investment: Pokemon Cards

Best Investment: Home school

I spend too much in some places and not enough in others when it comes to my daughter.

I do have to wonder what "regular" people the Wall Street Journal are considering in their estimations.

I'm sure that figure is spot on for people in DC, NY, CA, and other big cities. But I bet that for every family in the U.S. that spends $2,000 on a birthday party, there is another family that goes the Tang and hot dog route.

That being said, here are my top two best and worst investments (obviously from the kid point of view since I don't have kids):

#1 Best: Overnight camp. I understand that it was one of the more expensive, but I had a complete blast every time I went. I treasure those times to this day.
#2 Best: Parochial school. I think that I am the polite and respectful person I am today because of my experience in parochial school.

#1 Worst: Overseas travel at a young age. I loved travelling in middle school and as a teen. But my parents took me to foreign countries as a toddler. I have pictures of me in Colombia and I don't remember any of the trip. If you go for yourself, great. But if you go for your kid, wait until it is old enough to remember the experience.

#2 Worst: Expensive colleges. This may not be on the radar screen for lots of people here, but consider the advice. Most state colleges are great schools. Your kid really doesn't need to go to private universities unless he or she is smart enough to get scholarships (or unless he or she wants to ride on the coattails of the family name). Additionally, your kid could get stellar grades at a state school as opposed to mediocre grades at a private school. A good GPA looks good to grad schools. And grad school is when you should be concerned with the status of the school.

Just my two cents.

Our worst expense was our house. We bought it "for the neighborhood," but it's turned out to be an expensive folly. After we'd lived there three months, the next door neighbors marched over and told us they don't like us (my 6-year old daughter had used the word "sexy" in a conversation w/ their kid; they fear we are sexual predators). Many of the other kids in the neighborhood stay inside the house after school (I speculate they're parents are also afraid of these nutcases).
For the record, we're just two people who go to work... we're very boring.
We spent a fortune on the house, which is actually kind of dumpy. We never would've moved into the fabu suburbs if not for our daughter.

My kids are teens, so it has been a while, but we probably paid $60 tops for strollers. We received a decent (Graco, I think) stroller as a shower gift, and then between 2 children, bought 3 umbrella strollers. I thought the umbrella strollers were the best invention since they were extremely portable. Great for shopping since they fit between aisles and also fit in carts in grocery and Target type stores.

$900 for a stroller is mind boggling. OK if you can afford it, I guess, but really not a necessity.

For a BLIND mAN:

THE VOICE RECOGNITION SOFTWARE DOESN'T MAKE SUCH KIND OF TYPOS ("MTY" INSTEAD OF "MY")

aRE YOU WRITING FOR "cHRISSY" TOO?

>The Jones' are kicking mty ass and I feel >guilty that I'm bringing down the >property values in our neighborhood >because I don't have a SUV parked in >front of my house.

I can totally see how parents can spend this much per year on kids. I just took my daughter to Disney World (on the cheap - under $500) and was amazed at seeing the crap that parents would buy their kids - no educational value, just stuff. The trip was nice though, and am glad that I did it rather than an expensive 3rd birthday party. Two hours at a gymboree type place is around $400+ - equiv to out entire disney trip (cheap flight, she was free, and had a place to crash). My problem is that I buy too many educational toys for her when I feel guilty about her not having a dad. Getting better at that though. I am going to splurge on susuki music classes, and hope that I do not have to send her to private school (praying that I win a lottery for a good charter school in DC). I'd much rather spend the money on enrichment activities

Wow. One thing really struck me. "The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year."

I figure as a two income family, we are in the top-third income bracket. My son was born in 2005. We spend more than $16,000 just on child care alone. Where is the govt getting these figures? Obviously the top-third income bracket will have the ability to "spoil" their kids and buy some "extras." Whoever came up with these numbers is waaaayyy out of touch.

Also - I covet the Bugaboo, but would rather buy the $300 stoller for the city, and put the additional $600 in the 529 account. I second the Volo stroller endorcement - the best urban purchase I have made after the Bjorn. Perfect for getting around town, and when they start walking you just sling it over your shoulder and carry it - less than 10 lbs!!

One of my most regretted purchases: snow boarding day camp this season at a resort two hours away from my home.

As I grow in awareness of climate change issues, I tend not to think in terms of money wasted, but in terms of resources spent and in particular carbon generated. Those snow board trips were really awful, from that standpoint. I can actually calculate their impact: twenty or thirty gallons of gas producing over 20 pounds of carbon each, which will stay in the atmosphere for a long time.

I sure didn't do my kid any favors....

The Maryland Prepaid College Trust for both of our kids.

For the record, 09:25, I don't use voice recognition software.

Eye doo not no what u r trying 2 prove.

I wouldn't pay $900--no more than $500-- as I said, I hope to find one that is used! It really isn't that much when you consider how much people pay for custom bicycles, etc, and we have the money, but it honestly would feel so weird to have something that is so much more expensive than what my neighbors have. Is it possible someone could get mugged for their stroller? anyway, a well used but still operational bugaboo would be ideal and we have plenty of time to hunt down such a critter! In the menawhile, the 80s era Emmajunga stroller that we love still works-- but damn is it getting heavy for my old bones!

Father of 4,

"My kids will never experience a Disney vacation, nor have they ever flown on a plane".

Will you be my daddy? I just love your views. I want to grow up and be boring just like you, daddy.

We went to Disney because my grandmother lives in Orlando. We probably would not have gone if there was no family connection. I so rarely get to see my grandmother.

Our family of four plus my mother and sister stayed in a fairly plush timeshare condo 15 minutes from Disney. It was actually cheaper than 2 adjoining rooms at a Holiday Inn. The only catch is that you must sit through one of the timeshare spiels. It was worth it to us since we wouldn't have been able to afford the trip otherwise. We also drove from Maryland since we could afford that but not airfare for 4 plus a rental car. Neither of us travel for work, so no such thing as frequent flyer miles.

We also did not take a regular vacation the year prior to the Orlando trip. We only took day trips that year.

Just wanted to put this out there for those who wonder how people do things in this area with smaller incomes.

Best investments: overseas trips and even better long road trips here in the U.S., summer pool membership, instilling a love of reading, teaching them to save, music lessions & investing in their college educations.

Worst: sucumbed to one or two expensive birthdays (lasertag), not enough playgroups when they were young, DH & I are introverts.

I also ship at Target, Nordstrom Rack has great clothes for small kids, Marshalls, Delia's is a great place to shop for very thin young female teens (size 0-2), look for the sales on the jeans.

"snow boarding day camp this season at a resort two hours away from my home"

Sophie, please don't make your child feel guilty for any activity that's outside of walking/biking range. The environment is important, but it is both very easy and very damaging to give a child the impression that your particular cause is more important than they are. To take an example from another arena, that's why "preacher's kids" are proverbial - too often the preacher pours heart and soul into everyone (and every child) associated with the church but them. Teach them to be aware of and protect the environment, but don't make them feel guilty or take them completely out of the circle of their peers' activities - if you do it's likely to backfire and damage your relationship with them, and undermine any chance you have of passing on your values.

The BEST experience a child can have is to do without something. When they get things later they may start realizing the value of money. I hate to think what the children of today will do when the gravy train runs out...

"Books. If you want to buy something that will truly help your child with school and life don't skimp here."

Look at the Great Illustrated Classic series for kids -- you can order on-line at Costco I believe. There are three series -- each has 20 hardcover books with illustrations -- and each group of 20 hardcover books runs a little under $40. 60 hardcover kids classics for $2/book -- we picked up a copy for our kids and gave a set of 60 as a gift to our elementary school.

single mom, I bought too many educational toys too. We had fun using them together. Now my kids are taking advanced classes, and getting into very good colleges. I think the educational toys were worth it. You can always have a yard sale or take them to a consignment store later.

On the free side, we use the public library all the time. We are able to reserve the more popular books here in VA. When my kids were young, I put them to bed early, they were free to read for awhile, now they all read because they want to. Well, sometimes I have to tell them to get off the computer, but then they read.

"I don't spend much on them (2, 6 mos.), but am a stay-at-home mom and a cloth diaperer (as often as possible). thus, they get me 24/7 and hopefully a cleaner environment when they're older."

Someone in your house probably drive a car that rapes the environment, so drop the martyr act.

"Delia's is a great place to shop for very thin young female teens (size 0-2), look for the sales on the jeans."

Good tip for a sex offender.

Someone in your house probably drive a car that rapes the environment, so drop the martyr act.

who is being the snarky jerk today? Can we get his/her ip address banned?

"Delia's is a great place to shop for very thin young female teens (size 0-2), look for the sales on the jeans."

Good tip for a sex offender."

Good Grief!

"The Maryland Prepaid College Trust for both of our kids."

I agree - when a state offers an income tax deduction to accompany the capital gains relief found in the 529 plans, it's crazy not to take advantage of it.

I think it's the motivation behind spending the money that matters. If you're spending money to keep up with some mythical neighbor or to be someone you aren't, then you send the wrong message to your child. It's a fact of life that some of us have more than others. Those of us who do should spend time helping our kids understand the good and bad things about money. We do not necessarily have to buy second-hand clothes to make a point. I realize that I've been lucky as well as working hard, and I've tried to instill a sense of responsibility in my children. I don't think I have to force them to live as though we have no money, though. With any luck and some guidance from my husband and me, they will use their opportunities for good.

I love reading this blog - you guys are like a free soap opera/parenting class all rolled into one.

I suppose I'll have my own stories to tell once this baby's born (only 5 months to go!), but for now I'm just loving how goofy some of you are, and how amazingly bright others are. =)

Can somebody tell me if the 529 plans have income thresholds? Are the tax advantages otherwise phased out depending on income? DH and I have a pretty good college fund already for DS, but have been curious about 529s...

"The BEST experience a child can have is to do without something. When they get things later they may start realizing the value of money."

There's also the lesson of saving up to buy something - our 5th grader saved up for 8 months to but an iPod Nano. He as extremely proud to be able to go to the store with the money that he earned and saved.

dlm79,
"I suppose I'll have my own stories to tell once this baby's born (only 5 months to go!), but for now I'm just loving how goofy some of you are, and how amazingly bright others are. =)"

And it changes every day!

I grew up in a big family with limited funds - my best memories are visiting the Children's farm (was free then), packing a picnic lunch for a trip to the park, going to DC and playing touch football (I think it was near Haines point), and going to the library with my dad. Very low budget fun!

Books, you can get 'em for free at the public library.

Stay out of Costco and you won't be tempted to waste money.

Best investment so far: my daughter's Montessori school. I love watching her be so excited about all the stuff she's learning. We also pay a little extra so she can do dance there -- she unfortunately inherited a very poor concept of rhythm from both of us, but she loves it, so what the hey.

Don't really have stuff that I regret, because we don't buy a lot of expensive stuff. Do parties at the park, took the stroller that came with the carseat, and get a lot of hand-me-downs from her older cousin. We had our "D'oh" moment early on: when she was a newborn, we got all these really, really cute clothes -- and then, two months later, she had outgrown them, and had only worn some of them once! So now I won't spend more than $25 on any kid clothes, except for the winter coat and shoes -- usually hit Target and Old Navy, and the periodic sales at Children's Place and Gymboree.

Wait, actually -- biggest regret is my car. Had to give up my cute little 2-door coupe, both because of the pending kid and because it stranded me twice in the snow when I was 5 and 7 mos. pregnant (lived on top of a hill in CO at the time and the little guy just couldn't make it up). First time I've not owned a car until it died. Plus I splurged on a $30K car (bare-bones BMW 325 -- needed AWD w/a stick), and that stupid thing has caused me nothing but trouble since. Shoulda bought the Subaru, but just wasn't ready for such a "mom"-mobile at the time. Ahhh, vanity. . . .

$900 for a stroller so that you never have to buy another one? Nice try. Better not have another kid, buster!

Regarding spending a lot of money on their kids out of "fear"? Again, nice try. Rich people overspend on their kids out of guilt.

But if you think about it from their perspective, it makes perfect sense. These are people who have more money than time, so when something needs to get done, they just whip out their American Express card.

Need the house cleaned? Whip out the AmEx. Dog need walking? AmEx. Home need decorating? AmEx. How do I know this? Ask my house cleaner, dog walker, decorator, etc.

Why is it such a mental stretch to get to: Kid need taking care of? AmEx. Birthday party needed? AmEx.

These are people who are accustomed to solving time problems with money. They know that they aren't doing right by their kids in terms of time, so they compensate with money. Simple concept.

My wife and I, who both work full time, made a deal with ourselves when our daughter was born: We decided to use our money to buy time with our kids. So yes, we don't clean our house, we have a dog walker and we don't do our own decorating, painting, maintenance, etc. If we did any of that stuff, our kids would never even knew they had parents.

Best investments:
private school,
prepaid college tuition,
memberships at the national zoo, national aquarium and baltimore science center,
membership at the neighborhood pool

Worst investment:
public school (it didn't cost us any money but it sure cost my daughter a lot of grief),
overnight camp when my daughter was too young.

Still out:
American girl doll. It's way too expensive a doll but my daughter researched (during the summer!) the great depression and world war II because of the dolls. Who knew a doll could spark interest in history?

My daughter (9 years old) has a very distinctive look to her clothes but we either buy at the local consignment shop, Target or I sew a few skirts and dresses. Clothes for my son (3 years old) come strictly from consignment or hand-me-downs from his older cousins.

OT--Advice please!
We are looking to move, and would like to stay in DC. Not yet parents but hope to be soon. Any suggestions as to neighborhoods with decent day care /kindergarten / primary school options (and possibly things like playgrounds)? Or is this a pipe dream and we must go to the 'burbs?

"Can somebody tell me if the 529 plans have income thresholds? Are the tax advantages otherwise phased out depending on income? DH and I have a pretty good college fund already for DS, but have been curious about 529s..."

No income threshhold or investment limit.

There are a number of reasonable on-line resources that explain the differences between the pre-paid plans [which effectively work as a mutual fund tied to the average annual tuition increase for that state's colleges] and the savings plans [which are the more traditional broad-based mutual funds].

The big issue is that some states allow you to deduct contributions from your income taxes as well [up to $2500/child per year in Maryland] -- which is nice.

See sites like http://www.kiplinger.com/basics/archives/2003/02/529faqs.html
for more info.

I've seen a lot of people say they would not buy a car for their child and while I definitely understand the sentiment from my experience I don't think it's all that bad and we will probably buy (or at least mostly buy) a good but used car when my children are older, as long as we can afford it.

My parents bought me a car because I was always involved in something during high school. Between the school paper (we put it together every other Monday night and sometimes were there until 9-9:30), traveling soccer team year round, cross country, and basketball I was a very busy girl. My parents bought me a car for their sanity so they wouldn't have to drive me around everywhere. Also they were concerned that if I bought my own car then it wouldn't be of the best quality and they didn't want me stranded somewhere because my car broke down.

I don't see anything wrong with how they managed it. After that one was totaled (not my fault) and we went to get another one together I had to fork over the $800 I had saved up from working during the summer (again needed a car to get to it, was a full time job starting at 7 in the morning and pub transportation wasn't feasible) to get the car I wanted instead of the one they were willing to buy me.

I guess Bob's kids will never know how to clean or cook or walk the dog or even figure out how to decorate - hope they earn enough money to pay for them too.

"We are looking to move, and would like to stay in DC. Not yet parents but hope to be soon. Any suggestions as to neighborhoods with decent day care /kindergarten / primary school options (and possibly things like playgrounds)? Or is this a pipe dream and we must go to the 'burbs?"

Go to the burbs -- recommend Columbia, MD -- extremely family-friendly planned community of 100,000.

One way to cut down on unnecessary kid-luxury expenses: Move to a neighborhood where paying such expenses is not the norm.

Even if you can afford a "better" neighborhood, it is still wise to live in a more mellow neighborhood where materialistic expectations are more reasonable.

That social environment will be healthier for your kids in the long run. And your savings will grow!

You don't have to be trapped in the materialistic system, even if you have the $$$ to be able to.

If Warren Buffett and his family are smart enough to stay outside the consumer culture, why not you?

I'm glad to hear that there are normal people in the world. I live in a neighborhood right now which is upper-middle class, and it's one of the most wholesome towns I've ever been to. You don't see any of the nonsense that the WSJ article mentions. Makes me wonder, maybe I do make enough, because I wouldn't do the stupid things these people do if I had ten times the money.

Go to the burbs -- recommend Columbia, MD -- extremely family-friendly planned community of 100,000.

Ellicott City MD is right next to Columbia and is a great place to live.

Well, good luck dlm79. It should be a wild ride.

I grew up with the kids who got brand new bmws when thet got their licenses. They were no happier at ou ten year reunion.
And meesh-you prove your point. Do you think the admissions pple at the grad schools don't know the differences between schools and don't take that into account? Well, they most certainly do. They do for good old college too- looking at how well students do at mediocre vs better schools and the most certainly take that into account with admissions.
I'm not saying there aren't good public schools-i got both my degrees there- but there are differences in those too.
We are hoping the kids get good scholarships. Though.

Thanks for the advice re: Columbia and Ellicott City, MD. How far are those from downtown DC though? (Right now it looks likd we'll both continue to work, and I am not sure we want a 90-min commute.)

Any advice as to close-in suburbs or -- gasp! -- neighborhoods in the District proper??

I think the most expensive B-day party I had was going putt-putt. To see how people waste money just makes me sad sometimes. I know I would probably buy a few silly things were I so filthy rich, but I would also try my best do do good and helpful things for people. I just do not see how some people become so extremely wasteful...

Best Investments: Stay at home Mom for the first five years. In hindsight (DS was diagnosed with Asperger's in first grade) the calm routine of home was the best place for him. Also Yamaha music lessons starting at age 5. They have helped him to come out of his shell and given the years of playing piano in front of a class he has no stage fright. Last, but not least, annual trips to the DC area thanks to a sister who lived there. He has done the town from one side to the other with a side trip to Williamsburg. Sadly, said sister has now moved to St Paul so if we go back it will cost us a lot more. (We're hoping she returns to the Federal System before retirement!)

Worst Money Spent: Got sucked in to one over the top birthday party and tend to go overboard on the dreaded gift bags even when we do try to keep it sane from all other aspects. Summer care at his elementary school. It was nothing but supervised playground from 9 am to 5 pm. Less expensive, but a total waste. Biggest waste - expensive bedroom furniture. Spouse thought it was cool. He outgrew it way too fast!

"I agree - when a state offers an income tax deduction to accompany the capital gains relief found in the 529 plans, it's crazy not to take advantage of it."

VA offers a $2000 deduction on state income taxes, which are at about a 5% rate. So you are saving $100 on your taxes if you contribute $2000 to a 529. $100 bucks is a nice benefit, but hardly justifies a "crazy not to take advantage of it."

"Can somebody tell me if the 529 plans have income thresholds? Are the tax advantages otherwise phased out depending on income? "

No there are not any income thresholds or phaseouts with 529s, but talk to your fee-based financial planner about whether or not 529s are truly your best option.

re moving

Arlington has the subway, and the housing prices to prove it. Alexandria is an ok commute. Vienna is awesome, you can walk or take a bus to the subway, just don't try to park there after 6am, not enough spaces.

"how far are those from downtown DC though?"

60-90 minute commute from Columbia / Ellicott City -- though public transportation is available [niece was able to pick up the bus at the end of the street when she worked at Veterans Affairs -- was an easy commute].

good luck.

Just a warning on the Bugaboo - I loved it until my kid was one, and then it just wasn't comfortable for him, and we moved to the, yup, Maclaren (great deals on eBay on the 'old models'). My friends have had luck with Zoopers too. If you have the money, it's a great stroller, but most of the people I know who have one have found it's not a long-term solution. (Mine was a gift by the way, I'm not sure I would have spent the money). I walk everywhere too, and in the winter, so I value a good stroller.

Best money I ever 'spent' was keeping my low-paying, close to home academic job and my husband doing the same at a non-profit. We get to spend more time with the kids. Also, I think a nice stroller for us is well worth the money, because we use it so much. Different for everyone though, I suppose. My husband would say to spend the money on a Baby Bjorn too, we used that to death.

re moving the the suburbs - although housing is cheaper if you work in the city your commute is longer - and you spend more time away from your child. I am chosing at this point a small place, close to work and my child. Rather than 1 hour to and from work - I get an additional 2 hours a day with my child = 10 hours per week...

to 10:12 am

and would you say that all of those--Arlington, Alexandria, Vienna--are pretty kid-friendly and have decent care and schooling options?

Any further views on what neighborhoods within those towns would be particularly easy on a two-WOHM-parent family?

Thanks!!

single mom--
that's precisely my worry. I don't want to get home at 8!
Are you in this area? May I ask whether you have any insight as to neighborhoods within actual parenting distance from downtown?

contrary to a lot of the complaints about life in DC, I feel that our decision to move back here when our oldest kids were 4 & 2 was one of the best investments we could have made in their childhoods. all the museums and the zoo are free, and the exposure to different cultures and politics are invaluable.

Posted by: Leslie | March 9, 2007 08:38 AM

Leslie, on this I agree with you completely! People routinely knock us DC folks for being suckers and paying so much in real estate and daycare, but the way I see it: All of the culture is included in the rent!

Instead of paying $$ at big aquariums (It's almost $30 PER PERSON in Baltimore for the aquarium- and the children's museum is a huge rip off too) and museums in other cities, we get to go for free, as much as we want! We pack our lunch and have a great free day of fun on the Mall or at the Building Museum or the Zoo.

We also don't need 2 cars, and walk everywhere so we naturally stay in shape and reinforce an active (non shopping mall) lifestyle.

So, hands down the BEST investment is the increased rent and daycare costs that we pay.

Bests:
DC rent

DC private preschool costs (she'll go to public in kinder)
SmartTrip card

Zoo membership

Smithsonian Resident Assoc Membership

Better quality clothes (I know, I'll get flamed for it, but I absolutely can't get stains out of cheap clothes and end up tossing them all- Gap and Gymboree and Ralph Lauren clothes actually wash well and last longer- they don't shrink either,. I'd rather buy a few sets that last than constatnly buy cheap stuff)

Maclaren stroller

Travel

529

Lower paying job to spend more time

Worst:

I really can't think of any- the grandparents usually do the ridiculous spoiling

I spent about $500 on my daughter's birthday and, you know what? It was totally worth it!! The kids had a great time, the parents had a few hours to socialize with each other and eat some good catered food, and we had a blast!

and would you say that all of those--Arlington, Alexandria, Vienna--are pretty kid-friendly and have decent care and schooling options?

yes, arlington and fairfax public schools are great.

Hmm, money again ... I agree that there's something over-generalized about those figures - in college, I was only making about $16,000 a year, so I couldn't possibly have been spending that much on my child. He went to an excellent co-op daycare at the university in those days - it probably wasn't the cheapest day care in the city, but was definitely worth the investment, in terms of convenience as well as community - because it was a co-op, we got to know all the families really well (some of whom were my professors - definite bonus!)
He went to a week-long overnight camp last summer (a cheap one) and I think that was definitely worth it and plan on sending him again - like other posters, I have wonderful memories from the summer camp I went to as a child.
Like Centerville Mom, I think car purchases are really dependent on your situation. My parents bought each of their 5 kids a car when we turned 16 - mostly because we lived in a rural area with no public transportation and it took a lot of strain off of THEM to not have to drive us around. They were also really cheap, beater cars (and my dad is a mechanic, so that worked for them). If I lived in this area when my son was 16, I don't think I would buy him a car, but if we move to a rural area, I think I will.

Worst investments ... I will have to think on that one. Right now I am worried/disappointed about investments that I HAVEN'T made, such as a 529.

Get over yourselves. You don't need to spend a fortune to raise a kid. Buy from thrift shops for clothes. They outgrow them before they are worn out. Shelter -- do you really need to live in a $750,000 McMansion? Entertainment -- borrow books and videos for free from the library. They don't need a new car when they turn 16. I suggest you watch a movie called 'Mechanized Death' showing actual victims of actual car accidents. We had to watch it for drivers' ed and at least one kid (usually male) fainted during the showing.

FWIW, I grew up in Ellicott City and it was a slum them. About the mid-1960's before Columbia was even born, the town fathers decided to fix up and clean up. Now it's a Yuppie magnet. Again, get over yourselves. We had our own nickname for that quaint little stream that runs into the Patuxent. The old=timers still call Columbia 'Cardboard City.'

to hopeful: Silver Spring just inside the beltway has some great neighborhoods and easy bus/metro access. Of course it has prices to match ;-) As I have no kids I can only speak to the commuting aspect -- I find I have far less problems with red line trains than my NoVA friends have with orange line. My friends with kids in Montgomery County schools speak highly of the afterschool care program run in the schools.

Someone earlier asked about the cost of having a third child. We're about 2 months away from having our third and so far the only real cost seems to be the eventual day care bill and the diapers -- if you have a stay at home parent then you avoid the day care bill but have to calculate the extra time the stay at home parent stays out of the work force. We already have a boy (3)and a girl (17 months) so we don't have to buy anything additional for the baby. I'm just going to go get a package of diapers on the way to the hospital and I'm set. I'm sure we'll see an increase in our food and water bill and other incidentals, but it is definitely not a tripling of the amount it took us to get ready for the first. We already have all the baby gear, a house full of toys and more sippy cups than I can keep track of.

We have set up a third 529 plan, but our theory is that we're saving a certain amount for college -- now it will be split 3 ways rather than 2. We'll help our kids figure out how to cover the rest when we get there -- we're going to have 3 kids in college at once so short of a lucky mega millions ticket there's no way any of them are getting the college bill completely covered by us.

We figure the love and fun that the third child will bring to lives of our first two kids will far outweigh any deprivation they might suffer by not having a monkey at their birthday party.

"Thanks for the advice re: Columbia and Ellicott City, MD. How far are those from downtown DC though? (Right now it looks likd we'll both continue to work, and I am not sure we want a 90-min commute.)

Any advice as to close-in suburbs or -- gasp! -- neighborhoods in the District proper??
"

Try Takoma Park MD. Very mellow town, great community, lots of kids, tall trees, right next to the District.

For an easy commute to DC, it is hard to beat the straight shot from New Hampshire to North Capitol. And of course there is the Takoma station on the Red Line.

Lots of comfy and affordable houses in the eastern half of Takoma Park in particular, and that's actually the more accessible side for commutes, too.

There are lots of nice, comfortable places to live in the DC Metro area that aren't ridiculously priced, although if you want to live in the supposedly "good" areas -- Bethesda, Chevy Chase, McLean, Great Falls, Vienna, parts of Fairfax county, for instance -- you will pay top dollar. And encounter loads of traffic in your daily commute (and nearly all the rest of the time, too!).

You may also want to consider some less publicized and fairly close-in communities that are still pleasant places to raise a family: Bowie, Crofton, parts of Takoma Park, Kensington, parts of Laurel, Silver Spring, Olney -- those are all in Maryland. In DC proper, there are some well-established communities in NE Washington that may be fairly reasonably priced, although I'm not familiar with the schools. You can also go to greatschools.net for more information, test scores, parent reviews and the like.
Good luck!!!

"No there are not any income thresholds or phaseouts with 529s, but talk to your fee-based financial planner about whether or not 529s are truly your best option."

Good points -- in MD with an effective income tax rate of 8% and a $2500/child limit, the annual $600 I get for doing something I had planned to do anyways [with the capital gain protection] made it a clear winner.

My Dad normally sends cash for my son's birthday, which means I wind up going out and blowing it on something physical that he can play with.

I have to admit I spent too much on a Tricycle recently. I was blown away by the engineering and technology of the thing. It's German. :-)

The boy spends no more time with his VLI tricycle than he does playing with cardboard boxes. Silly dad.

Thank you so much guys--I am taking notes! Keep it coming please!

(Of course, since we are not even expecting yet, kindergarten is at least 5 years away, but we figure since we are going to move we may as well move some place where we can actually plan to be for a while...)

Please stop shopping at Target. I know it's cheap but please think about where your money goes. Target allows its pharmacists to refuse to dispense the morning after pill. If providing women with reproductive choices is something that is important to you, please think twice about supporting a company that seeks to limit those choices. Not a big deal for people who live in big cities but in some places in this country that translates into no access.

Warning - anal-retentive engineer alert!
You've been warned!

I actually know exactly how much I've spent on my kids since the first was born in early 1989 - I keep track of all the receipts. It's far, far less than even the $249K cited by the Government, on things just for them.

Okay, we have a much bigger house with 4 kids than we'd have if we were DINKs, but it's certainly not a McMansion. If you did want to calculate the different cost of housing and assign it to each of the kids, you could probably get me over the $249K, but not by that much (and to be honest, if we didn't have kids I don't know that we'd have a cheaper house - a smaller one, certainly, but we moved to Howard County for the schools and we might live someplace more adult-friendly and expensive if it was just us).

Clothing: nobody seems to have mentioned Kohl's. My wife loves the place, especially end-of-season sales. She was bragging last night about getting 5 new pairs of shoes, 3 pairs of jeans and 4 shirts for the kids and getting out of the store for less than $100. Conversely, she hates the clothes at Target - says they don't last a season, and prefers not to buy clothes there at all.

Best investments so far, in no particular order:
1 - trip to Europe to attend a former Au Pair's wedding in Galway, Ireland. The plane tickets were free - frequent flyer miles from the job where I kept having to go to Hong Kong, etc. We stayed in London for 4 days and Ireland for 5. Loved every minute of it; the kids can remember almost everything that happened. Having grown up an Army Brat and lived all over the world (born in Germany, even) travel is important to me and I wanted the kids to have the experience of seeing other countries. I think the total cost of the trip came in at about $6K, and it was worth that and more.
2 - private high school for my son. Ho Co schools are great but overcrowded, and he's the type of kid who needs a small class and individual attention. He got an academic scholarship that covers part of the tuition; we pay the rest. Benefit? Middle school GPA: 2.2 (he got the scholarship by scoring spectacularly well on the entrance exam the Baltimore Catholic high schools give); high school GPA so far: 3.8. PSAT score high enough to have made him a National Merit Scholarship semifinalist if he was a junior (he's only a soph). And he's much, much happier now.
3 - the house in Howard County. We lived in PG County before kids. I'm gonna get roasted for saying this, but we'd never let our kids go to PG public schools, at least back then. Look, folks, I went to some lousy public schools and know you can get a decent education if you really want to, but it's easier with better schools and we moved to HoCo for that reason. The girls are all in the HoCo public schools (the overcrowding doesn't bother them at all), and it's been worth it.
4 - college funds; various types. Oldest daughter should hear in the next two weeks about some of the colleges to which she's applied; aaaahh - I'm gonna go bankrupt!
5 - a third car. I got the new Corolla. The oldest daughter drives the 1991 Escort with 254,000 miles on it. It runs beautifully; it gets her to school and work and she can drive her younger siblings. It motivated her to learn to drive a stick (a fact which the boys in school are impressed with; and if anybody takes that joke any farther I'm gonna break out the baseball bat!) and to take care of the car.

Worst investment: don't really know; there haven't been any really bad ones (okay, tech stocks in late 2000, but in my defense I worked for the company!) I'm hoping college won't break that streak.

I concur, for what you claim to be you do not seem to be up to sniff on the software side.
In our Courthouse the voice recognition software is tuned so that
"Eye doo not no what u r trying 2 prove" is hardly possible. You would be amazed how it does even without training, and you certainly could have trained it, spending so much time on this blog.

Seems like that person was trying to say that he/she thinks you are a lousy impersonator. I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you do blind typing, but it's a stretch to assume. Besides, then you would have more typos. Maybe a statistician (FoamGnome?) here can do comparative analysis of the frequency of your typos versus average.

re moving the the suburbs - although housing is cheaper if you work in the city your commute is longer - and you spend more time away from your child. I am chosing at this point a small place, close to work and my child. Rather than 1 hour to and from work - I get an additional 2 hours a day with my child = 10 hours per week...

Posted by: single mom | March 9, 2007 10:16 AM

I agree with you single mom. What's more important for a child? A yard or more time? The average work day is about 9 hrs, tack 2 hrs of commute and there is your whole day! I get those 2 hours with the little one! Much more precious than real estate IMO.

For the poster asking what neighborhoods were good in the city:

If you want public schools:
Woodley Park
Glover Park
Georgetown
Tenleytown/ AU Park
Chevy Chase
Foxhall/Palisades

I have to say, though, that Upper NW (past Cleveland Park) takes longer to get downtown than living in N Arlington.
I'd stick to Glover Park or Woodley Park or Gtown for commute purposes

N Arlingotn (Clarendon area) is super close and nice as well.

I see Bob's point (but not crazy about how it was stated). I'm one of those people who have a house cleaner. Why? Because I hate cleaning toilets, floors, etc., have limited time that I'd much rather spend with family, and really like having a clean house. Don't have a dog though, so no dog walker and never had my home decorated. But there is some truth to what he says. I work FT and don't want to spend my weekends cleaning or doing errands. I want to spend it with my family at the zoo or somewhere else fun for us all.

BUT I do NOT buy things for my DS because of guilt. I actually think we are pretty frugal with him. For his first birthday, we didn't even have a party (no faimly around so why bother?). Gifts were less than $25 and we made the cake ourselves. We buy him things that we think are cool periodically and of course clothes b/c he is growing like a weed, but no extravagent stuff.

And I don't care how much money you have, Target is the best store ever and I would shop there exclusively if I could.

BABY PAGEANTS.

Everyone remember that last scene in "Little Miss Sunshine"? It made me sick. I watched it again last night and said "never, never, never." My mom was with me and said "never say never." I asked her, "would you have let me compete in a beauty contest?" She was silent.

Never. Ever. EVER.

My daughter wants to cheer? Fine. She wants to be a ballerina? Wonderful. She wants to go to Disney and do the 'Princess' thing? ::sigh:: okay, I guess so. But push-up bras and sequins and fake tans and Aqua Net for seven-year-olds? Waste of money, waste of time, dearth of self-esteem. There is just no way. I plan on giving my kids a relatively high amount of freedom, provided they stay out of trouble and keep their grades up, but there are two things I will insist on: no pageants and they will take kung fu or muay thai.

... for affordability, I forgot to say, also check out the "not really Takoma Park" neighborhoods just over the PG county line (for example the Carole Highlands neighborhood, or the section between E-W Hwy and Sligo Creek Park).

Those neighborhoods have the Takoma Park feel, the tall trees, the quiet streets, the solidly built homes and the young families, but the houses are a LOT cheaper. It's a popular neighborhood with couples in exactly your position -- just getting a new family started.

There was an even more affordable neighborhood featured in the WaPo real estate page recently, to the southeast of the ones I mentioned above. I don't know that as well, but the Washington Post seemed to think it was a good deal.

So exactly what is right for you depends on your budget, but the overall message is, there are a lot of choices in MD very close to DC.

Good luck!

Overspending on kids is a pet peeve of mine. We have some wealthy relatives who go nutso on their kids -- the 6-year-old spends most of his time on a handheld playstation or yells and runs around. He goes through toys like water. Their house (which is huge) is filled to the brim with toys everywhere. Their children wear designer clothes.

They are actually wonderfully nice people (true!) but their values on materialism are increasingly repulsive to me. It's a weird paradox for me to deal with, because I am also envious of their money. Let's admit it!

Sorry, that was supposed to be addressed to Father of 4.

Sorry, that was supposed to be addressed to Father of 4.

Ya'll have probably heard this from me before. But the best money we spent was buying a home in our cohousing neighborhood. They just talked about one (in Vienna, VA) on MSNBC this week: http://preview.tinyurl.com/29scod

This one choice has taken care of so many of our quality-of-life issues: social time for the kids and for us, healthy eating, exercise, low-cost entertainment, a community of folks who care about us and our kids.

OT for Mona: You can always buy a future daughter one of these

http://www.emotionalarmor.com/womens.shtml

Private lessons. They have become a huge expense. My son is in high school and has been taking music lessons since he was about 9. I don't think I expected it to cost so much. But once you get in with a good instructor you have to keep up the lessons or they'll drop you for someone else. Besides, we developed a relationship with the instructor. I feel a bit locked in but what's the payoff? As a kid in high school he's happy, has a group of friends and an identity as a bando. Not a cool identity, but he doesn't care. When I look at the kids who seem so sad and lost I feel that those lessons were worth it. He has a skill and hobby that will last a life time.

My youngest is a natural athlete. She's taken up a sport that requires regular training. Her instructor is awesome and highly sought after. Now that we're on the list I want to stay there. They payoff I'm looking for is getting her through high school without turning to the dark side.

As I spend $$ on these lessons I think that someday she could be a coach or trainer and that being exposed to excellent trainers will prepare her to do the same some day. Or maybe she'll just be able to train my grandkids. That'd be cool in itself.

Another best investment: a new refrigerator. Our kids played with the box almost exclusively for MONTHS. It really brought out their creative side, too -- one day it was a boat, the next a house, the next a camper, etc. And the best thing is, you don't have to buy a new fridge to get the box if you know where to go!!

Best investments -
My home. It is tiny and we are snug, but I love the neighborhood and the school.
Daycare after my son turned 2. He loved it, and made a few good buddies there with whom he still plays.
Family vacations - they vary, we go to the beach, we once went to a farm, have explored a few cities. It is just nice to be together in new places.
The Thomas the Tank Engine (and other assorted) Wooden Rail toys. - My son spent countless hours playing with that, from the time he was about 1 until he was 6ish. Sadly, he now things they are for babies.

Worst Investments - Expensive B-day parties - did it twice. I think we are done with that.

Demos,

I am sorry, but a lot the excess consumption we face comes from this notion that we cannot deprive our children. It's not about deprivation. It's about more sustainable choices. We'll never make the changes we need to make if we keep holding out our kids as entitled to excess and waste. And then of course we raise a generation that considers itself entitled, and they won't be able to make the right choices either.

Of course I don't rant and rave about the environment when I am driving to the ski resort. This was my choice, not his, and there is certainly no need to make our drives "guilt trips".

I don't want to start a war here, but I have to ask something.

I spent the majority of my childhood and teen years in Rockville. I always said that I would never raise a kid in that area because of all the consumerism. I would go to Montgomery Mall and see 14-year-olds in Seven jeans with Coach purses. Most of my friends wore clothes from Abercrombie and Anthropology and almost all got cars for their 16th birthdays. I'm talking about public school kids too.

Most of you seem opposed to conspicuous consumption. How are you going to prevent your kids from going that route?

My parents were (are) complete hippies. We ate organic but simple food and didn't drink soda or have cable. I still ended up wanting the new car and clothes. I've mostly grown out of that phase, but lots of my friends haven't. The ones who still live in that area are sporting Tiffany jewelry and running up $300 bar tabs in DC. I think it's just a way of life and that if I hadn't moved, I would be the same way.

My son is 10 but extrapolating, I'm well over the Govt
estimate but going to come in well below the Journal. (And
yes I'm clearly in the top 1/3 bracket).

The big hit was in-home nanny care for the first 4 years.
That ran about $40K per year including (modest) benefits
and employer taxes. But it meant my son spent his early
years at home. Further, both parents had home offices and
made a point of working from home a lot so he saw a lot of
us, without interfering very much with our jobs.

Also did private, education oriented pre-school and
kindergarten which made a big difference for him
academically.

But now (admittedly pre-teen), he's surprisingly inexpensive.
Books come from the library, bicycles and sports gear don't
cost much, and four or five outfits will get him through a week
(and a season) if I buy good stuff that is sturdy. I haven't
totalled the numbers but $5K per year plus one big trip
per year (say $2K more?).

Looking forward to teenage years, there is the issue of cars
and car insurance.

best investments (in no particular order):
music lessons for all
swim team, travel and competitions(for the swimmer)
tennis lessons, travel and competitions (for the tennis player)
house in good public school district
cuddle time for all
dog and cat
church almost-tithing
travel, travel, travel

worst investment:
can't think of one now, as even their birthday parties are memorable...usually for something silly happening.

Best investment: Books, and the time spent reading them. Libraries are great, but get the kids hardcover copies of some of their favourites and those books will become treasured friends and heirlooms.

Worst: Expensive lessons on anything a kid doesn't like. I really can't figure this one out. My parents, who were actually quite poor, put my brothers & me through years of piano, swimming, flute, violin, singing, acting, soccer, skating, dance etc. The rule was that we had to have at least one sport and one musical instrument at any given time. We tried hard and practiced but we really, really, really didn't like much of it. I don't recall EVER looking forward to one of these lessons or competitions. I dropped all of those pursuits as soon as my parents let me. So did my brothers. All those lessons added up to a big fat nothing as far as long-term accomplishments or lifetime habits.

I don't think it's a bad thing to encourage kids to take lessons or join teams. But I do think parents should listen when their kids honestly dislike an activity, and even more, I think kids NEED unstructured time badly. Parents too, really. It drives me nuts to watch my friend shuttling her toddler all over town for this & that, dropping with exhaustion, constantly harried, and she complains the kid "doesn't appreciate" what she does for him.

For DC parents with little ones, instead of Disney, you can take your kids to a place in PA/Lancaster County called Dutch Wonderland. It's a small theme park with rides scaled for kids from 2-6. They even have their own princess (looked like she was the local prom queen) and other characters walking around, live acts, etc. You can do it in a day trip from here and admission is only about $25 for kids, parking is free, etc. We did it with our three year old last summer--we had also gone on a big family reunion trip to Disney and to a 3-year-old the Dutch Wonderland trip was, to him, just as much fun. (We combined that with a ride on Thomas the Tank Engine at the Strasburg Railroad--also only $10-20 a ticket and our son was like a rock star at preschool the next week when he showed his pictures to his friends.) We made a special weekend out of it and, combined with a night at a Howard Johnson's (with pool--also very exciting) and meals at Pizza Hut, gave him some great memories for about $200.

$5000 for a BIRTHDAY PARTY!?!?!

Are they serving gold plated cake?

Um, I spent about $7000 for my wedding and it was very nice thank you. And yes, I thought that was an awful lot of money to spend on a wedding.

Our birthday parties have never been more than $150 including steak dinner for 13.

Most expense has been childcare for the kiddos. There a boxes of toys that have been wildly loved for a week and then discarded. Oh well. I am constantly reminded that a big cardboard box is the best toy ever.

Best bets: Costco membership over the years for formula and diapers. Consignment store clothes, toys, and used bookstore books. 529 plan my parents contribute too in lieu of extravagant gifts. 3 Day a week preschool for my 4 year old at a local Presbyterian Church.

Demos --

Perhaps I should clarify. We drove 300 miles every weekend for the last two months to attend snow boarding day camp, not one day.

Now do you see why I call that excessive?

My 4-year old son has been "discovered" by modeling agencies several times while we were doing things like shopping at the mall or playing on the playground. I've been told since he was about a year that he's stunning, gorgeous, extremely photogenic, you name it. Kind of weird to me because my husband and I are probably of average good looks. Anyway, even though the money they've offered is pretty startling, we have said NO firmly every time. I do not want my child to grow up thinking that looks are so important. It's hard enough on him as it is, because I swear he gets special treatment from teachers and strangers because of his looks.

I think that parents who encourage modeling and pageants are trying to live vicariously through their child(ren) or cash in at great cost to kid(s). Just my $.02.

To hopeful, we left capitol hill and moved up to chevy chase dc before our son was born. it's a great solution to the long commute problem and you get the benefits of a more suburban/community feel. that said real estate is pricy, but there are fixer uppers occassionally if you want to go that route. we'll send our son to Lafayette when the time comes; i understand that Janney is also good. I'm not a fan of the junior high (Deal) or Wilson, but we're years away from that yet. We love it up here -- we can get to work downtown in 20-25 minutes in the morning and evening commutes are similar or just a touch longer.

For DC parents with little ones, instead of Disney, you can take your kids to a place in PA/Lancaster Count