primoris

If they wanted people to stop and listen to Bell play, then they should have had him there during a non-rush hour time. People are trying to get to work, thinking about work, worrying about work, etc, during rush hour.

When I mentioned the news article to my wife (it was on ABC News as well complete with video), she thought it was a silly concept to have him play at that time. Had he played during other times I feel more people would have stopped to listen; at least he made $32!

If you don't stop to small the roses once in a while, you going to miss out on some of the greatest moments in life.

Everybody has, at the very least 20 minutes of free time a day. Take some of that time each day and enjoy life a little.

Being two minutes late once in a while for something is not going to end the world.

I think it was precisely the right time-when people are rushed is when they need the break to stop and smell the roses. We need more breaks and more time to do nothing but indulge but more and more the badge of honor is how busy you are.

Brian

"Over-scheduling of kids, like over-scheduling of adults, is not intrinsically bad."

Yeah, it is bad. That's why it's called OVER scheduling.

"There are important skills to acquire and lessons to learn from piano/swimming/Tai Kwon Do/ballet/soccer/yoga/Kindermusic/etc"

For you, Bozo. Not for everybody.

32 bucks for 43 minutes? More than I make in an hour!

I was also very moved by Weingarten's piece, because I know that had I been by myself, I would not have stopped, but if my two-year-old daughter had been with me, I'm sure we would have. I know that my daughter would have demanded to stop and hear the violin player, and as a mother who works outside the home, I try to make the most of our time together, experience-wise. Having a child has taught me to slow down my usual fast-paced tempo.

I'm pretty sure I would have stopped, but I can't be certain. When we've been with our kids in other cities, we've stopped for street performers, sometimes sitting on the sidewalk for 15 minutes. Like Rockville Mom, I try to make the most of my time with my kids. We try to live at a slower pace anyway than most (which is partly why we moved from the DC area).

Is anyone else still pondering yesterday's blog topic? My husband and I had a great discussion about it last night. It reminded us both how strongly we feel about raising HAPPY (rather than accomplished) kids.

Rockville Mom, what was truly sad to me in the piece were the children-- the children wanted so much to listen and watch this amazing show, but parents were physically placing themselves between Bell and their children -- blocking aaccess in any way possible just to keep the kid walking. I don't blame them! We kid stops for ANYTHING. And we are always advised to "BE CONSISTENT" so if I make an exception here for the guy with a violin, then shouldn't I also make an exception to watch the bug on the leaf? Maybe this constant drive to be consistent at all times is at odds with promoting balance? Maybe balance is about knowing when to make an exception to the rule? I wonder how many times I have blocked access to beauty and genius from my child just so that I could stay consistent, when I could have used it as an opportunity to say-- "this is worth stopping for-- bugs aren't. why? Because I said so-- now hush and LISTEN and watch. For in two minutes, we have to move on . . ."

Thanks Brian. I would not have stopped. I am frightened sometimes at the speed my life is taking and the feeling that I don't know where the heck I am going. Next time, I will stop.

I liked that piece on Sunday too. I'm pretty sure I would have stopped because we routinely stop for street musicians and it's just as often me bringing the kids over as it is them pulling me. Music is a big thing in our family.

I'm torn on whether the experiment would have been better at a different hour. For me, stopping would have meant being late for work, which would have meant staying later and missing out on time with my kids that afternoon - a very tough choice. If they were with me, no biggie but that's not the case. So I think you might have had more people stopping at different hour. But, it was a very interesting experiment. I was struck by how hard it seemed for Joshua Bell to perform to an audience that ignored him so outwardly.

Leslie, you're late, I wrote about this in your blog DAYS ago. ;-) Anyway, like many, I feel that out of fairness, the performance could have been staged after work hours. How many people would have gotten in trouble at work for being late? On the other hand, society in general, around here especially, rushes about too much in an over-inflated-self-important/absorbed-daze. Until everyone, and I mean everyone, relaxes a bit, this city and the surrounding area will remain a "soul-sucking" nightmare.
Eventually the bottom HAS to fall out, and the stress of just getting from point A to point B needs to take second place to an awareness of the world around us and life in general. When people spend more time focused on the destination than the journey (a trite and true phrase) they miss out- whether it is a short trip to work, or racing so fast in a search for balance that they realize they missed out on enjoying life. People have become so absorbed by their rush to accomplish more that they do not even pay attention to the road because they are so engaged on their cell phones- THAT is how much our blindness to their surroundings has affected society. Lets see, I can hurry to work to see what the latest pseudo-crisis is, or I can enjoy the last 30 seconds of a great song on the radio/ipod, or watch a bird in flight, or marvel at a tree waving in the wind as sunlight dances between the leaves... really of all the things people get worked up over, how many of them are REAL emergencies? As a former military guy it pains me to see a manager at a restaurant blow up at a waitress in front of customers over her messing something up, or someone lose their temper over an elderly person taking a few seconds too much time to make it through the crosswalk, or when someone says something mean on this blog about one of my silly postings (just seeing if you're still reading). Really, how many of us have lost it over an insignificant delay, much less taken time to create a small delay when the rewards of doing so are immeasurable? There are not many of us who, if we are a few seconds or minutes late, are going to dramatically alter the course of world events, so WHY the rush? How many lives are on the line if we don't make it from point A to point B to get to our cube farms or offices exactly on time? How many lives are wasted by rushing and missing out- either by failing to appreciate beauty along the way, or wasted by not being safe and paying attention to surroundings?

"Over-scheduling of kids, like over-scheduling of adults, is not intrinsically bad."

Of course "over-scheduling" is bad. If you'd said just "scheduling," I would have agreed with you. Unless, by "over-scheduling," you just mean that we don't leave enough time between activities to move a little slower. I think earlier this week or last week there were some comments about how people used to allow more time to get to work, on the one hand to allow for any unexpected delay, but also so they could start their day more leisurely... look at the paper for a few minutes before jumping into their work. But a lot of times we leave at the last possible moment and then rush rush to get to work (or wherever) on time and then if there is any unforeseen impediment, it's just that much more stressful.

BTW, the 7:59 post is from a different Rockville mom.

My daughter and I did stop and see Joshua Bell. She is communting with me because we are on week 3 of onsite day care.

We did stop to hear the music and I even knew, due to my classical music training
that one of pieces he played was Bach.

Thank you Joshua Bell for bringing such beautiful music to Metro Center.

Dang it, that was Brian, not Leslie... I keep forgetting to see who writes these things... LOL

On "Over-Scheduling": I'm guilty of a poor word choice, since "over-scheduling" is indeed -- as has been pointed out -- intrisically bad. Perhaps I should have said that "busy schedules" are not automatically a bad thing.

I find myself agreeing with officer krupkake about the over-scheduling bit. OVER doing it, as usual of course, by calling brian a bozo, but spot on nonetheless.

seriously, if you people don't know when to step outside of your routine because you happen upon art, you have the wrong focus in life.

Reading this blog never fails to impress one thing upon me: adults have lost track of what it's like to be a kid, and likewise, endlessly curious.

Shame on anyone lucky enough to hear Joshua Bell in person who doesn't stop to listen!

Great piece today, Leslie. It really made me stop and think, and I don't even have kids! It made me remember one time, when I was going through something difficult, and my mom was ill. I went to West Virginia to spend the summer with her, and we really held each other up during that time. Once, we walked to the grocery store, and on the way back, we saw a little butterfly fluttering in a roundabout way, trying to get across the road. We sat down and watched that thing for half an hour until it finally corkscrewed its way to the other side. That was years ago, and it's still a fond memory for both of us.

BTW, it's Tae Kwon Do. And I wouldn't suggest it as an activity for kids. As an art, it has its merits, but the over-commercialization (there seems to be a TKD school on every corner) and its popularity have diluted its effectiveness. There's a running joke among some martial artists that you can buy black belts out of vending machines; the trophies and tournaments only make it worse. I'd suggest something a little less popular (the schools tend to be more authentic) like Shao lin, any animal kung fu, or if you want to go really hardcore, Muay Thai.

I also wonder if the results would have been different at a different time, perhaps evening rush hour. I also would like to believe that if I didn't stop to listen, that I would have at least slowed my pace down a bit and noticed him. That struck me in the article, that according to reports most people didn't even give him a glance, slow their pace, or even notice that there was music happening.

Jen, not all of the child-rearing "experts" say be consistent, some actually say be true to your feelings and share that with your kiddos. Just depends on who you read.

To Jen,
I understand what you mean about being consistent. For me, it's what I'm consistent about. I consistently won't purchase any little thing my daughter wants at the grocery store or I consistently make her hold my hand in a parking lot. But if she wants to explore something or have 10 books read to her (a great bed-time stalling tactic, I know), I roll with it. Of course, for the next six weeks, she is still and only child - we'll see what happens when baby #2 arrives!

I would have stopped regardless of kids with me or not. We routinely stop and watch buskers (with a careful check on not impeding traffic, purse closed, etc.). I like acrobatics the best, personally.

To Mona: Thanks for the clarification on TKD. Maybe I should look into Muy Thai. A preschool/high school classmate of mine, Sam Sheridan, just published a book on his experience as a fighter, and Muy Thai was his introduction into that world.

To Bob: Thanks for the honesty. I was beginning to worry that I was the only one who would acknowledge sometimes losing my focus on the important things.

I think it is shameful and a reflection of a complete lack of exposure to classical music to fail to recognize the face a world renowned violinist. Whether one had time or not to stop and listen is a completely different issue. We can recognize Anna Nicole Smith or Paris Hilton or a famous athlete. Maybe it's OK or not OK to stop or not to stop for street musicians. I have no opinion on that. But not to recognize the face of Joshua Bell or at least to say to oneself...this guy looks like Bell, but it can't be him, can it?..........

My brother and sister-in-law overschedule their lives all the time. One day they had us over for brunch in the morning, then go to have a birthday party for their own child at whatever place they were having it, then rush to two sporting games that there kids are in, go out to dinner, and then attend an event at the local church! It's insane!!!!!!! They can't possibly enjoy any one of those things. Our family on the other hand would do one (maybe two) of those things in a day. Saturday is our son's birthday party and that's the ONLY thing we have planned for the entire day.

I doubt I would have stopped. This is coming from someone who worked for a symphony for eight years (even meeting Josh Bell at one point) and played the fiddle for a few years. I love the music and can appreciate the difference between really fabulous talent and merely very good talent. I would have enjoyed listening to the music on my way up the escalator, but that's all the time I would have devoted to my appreciation on a morning commute. I doubt I would have even looked hard enough at the player on my way by to recognize him.

My husband would have been more likely to stop because it's more in his personality to lay aside schedules and goals and destinations and just appreciate what's right in front of him. It's an admirable trait, but it has an unfortunate tendency to lead to poor performance reviews at work. On a Friday morning commute, I'm more concerned about my performance review than about classical music.

Sure, we can all find time in a day to slow down and pay attention to our world, and I can recall a few times in my life that I've been stopped dead in my tracks by unexpected beauty. Maybe this would have been one of those times, but the smart money would be on me walking by and thinking a few hours later "man, that guy was really good!"

Guilty as charged. Sometimes I have to take a deep breath because my older girl is a dawdler. She loves to examine every new thing and music stops her in her tracks. So mornings can be stressful if I have an "important" meeting or a clinic full of patients. I agree that the evening rush is a little more conducive to 'smelling the roses'. I often dawdle with her if she is curious about something on our way home and have more patience for listening to the train go by, etc. So I have sympathy for the parents who rushed their kids by....

Different Rockville mom,

Congratulations and good luck with your #2.

Mona, I see you and I share the same handicap today. We were so busy rushing through life, trying to get our posts in, that we failed to notice that it was Brian and not Leslie, who wrote the above prompt!

Alas, Tae Kwon Do, a wonderful martial art has suffered much abuse this last decade. The overcommercialization has ruined something great. I remember working for my belts under a strict, but patient, instructor. They instructed us on not only the form, but philosophy of it as well- teaching a time and place for rules and sportsmanship, a respect for everyone, cautioning us to be responsible and not abuse what we had learned, and most importantly to throw everything out the window about the "rules" if our lives were ever on the line. ;-)

Chris: yes one of my favorite lines from freiends is by chandler, when someone (I think monica) says something juicy. And he said: if I don't enter those numbers (turning around to stay)- it doesn't make a bit of a difference.

Is part of the commercialization of Tae Kwon Do the fact that kids/adults seemed rushed from belt to belt. When I looked into it quite a few years ago, every place talked about how basicly every 3-6 monnths (or maybe even less, I can't quite recall) you'd test to get a higher belt, acheiving a black belt in a matter of few years. Seems like it should take a good many years to acheive the highest ranking in an art, but maybe that's just me.

True life balance has to include finding the small joys in every day. The extra 10 minutes with a cup of coffee and your teenage daughter. The after dinner conversation, hearing the jokes that the 6th grader tells. Or the last hour of the day when everyone is asleep, except me. I would have stopped to listen. It would have been for a short time because of my hectic life, but I would have savored that small unexpected joy of the day.

FYI: I fixed the Tae Kwon Do spelling in the body of the post. Thanks for the sharp eyes.

I doubt I would have stopped if I was on my way to work or school. But to the larger issue, we try hard not to overschedule our lives. But it is hard. DD goes to preschool 5 days a week for developmental delays. So we quit all the gymboree type classes. We figure she needs a break. But it is hard to meet errands, family obligations, visit friends, work and school. We are not sure what we will do when DD is older and will be involved in more of her own activities. I do think everyone is very busy these days. My guess is the commutes are so long, two working parents, kids in a ton of activities. And am I right, that kids have more of a social life then before? They seem to get invited to more parties and play dates. I miss the days when kids just ran out doors and played.

Tae poes hapepn.

To John Q: Yes, I have at least 20 minutes a day to enjoy the unexpected, and how I spend those moments has a lot to do with my overall happiness. Unfortunately, I don't often get to choose when those 20 minutes actually occur.

To new poster: my sister was telling me that in addition to the 'color' belts, they would have levels for each belt too. The parents thought it was a scheme for them to buy a new uniform every 3 mos or so.

Well, I just stopped to read the entire article and it was well worth the time. What a lovely piece - and so sad too. I'm inspired to become a little less controlling so that I'm open to the possibility of beauty around me. It's everywhere - not just in a once-in-a-lifetime subway performance by Joshua Bell.

I was actually at the Boston concert given by Mr. Bell that was discussed in the article. And I count violin playing as my main hobby. So I would like to think I would have stopped to listen. Perhaps I would have - but if I did, it would sadly have been only because the performance was aligned exactly with my interests. My kids, however, would have pulled me to check it out and I would have been annoyed with that.

Thank you for the wake up call!

To Chris: If we had a pun-of-the-day content, you'd win, hands down.

one other thing to think about...

Lets say (picking a name out of a hat) it was Sting (or Bono or other giant in the pop music world), with an acoustic guitar, singing his songs? Would you have stopped?

I'm sure the number would have skyrocketed. And not just because the crowd was star-struck, but because they knew the songs and had connected with them; that the person+songs had emotional attachment.

The point is that, imho, classical music has lost a lot of relevancy today. It's not a part of our everyday lives, and holds a sort-of high-culture cache, which occupies a very specific purpose. Although I know I have, I don't mean to offended anyone. Regardless of how important classical music is to you, you must know there's some truth in what I say.

But getting back to the main point - would you stop if it were a more relevant musician?

Kurt Vonnegut died last night. So, for those interested, a combination rose/CTOTD
__________________________________
From the NY Times obituary:

To Mr. Vonnegut, the only possible redemption for the madness and apparent meaninglessness of existence was human kindness. The title character in his 1965 novel, "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater," summed up his philosophy:

"Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'G#@ d*&n it, you've got to be kind.' "

"But getting back to the main point - would you stop if it were a more relevant musician?"

And that was my point--to me, Josh Bell IS a relevant musician and the music is familiar. But I still probably wouldn't have stopped.

I wish I knew how many more people were stopping now to listen to street performers in DC since that article was published.

Marian,

Thanks for the Vonnegut post. I was thinking about a CTOTD for today. This will do nicely.

The adaptation of his novel "Slaughterhouse- Five" to the big screen failed miserably in trying to explain the meaning of his book.

One time we were in Charleston, SC for a vacation, and a street guitarist was playing to the crowds. My wife and I stopped for awhile to listen, and as we began to leave my wife dropped a $20 bill into his collection jar. He stopped playing, got up, chased after us and thanked her for her generosity. As we walked away I asked her why she gave him so much; she said "I liked the music".

Now, had we been going to work I doubt we would have stopped nor would she have left any money at all. It's all in the timing; on vacation you can take time to pay attention to things you don't when you are in your usual daily mode. Maybe that isn't the ideal but it's reality.

Foamgnome - I have often thought about that same thing. When the kids are young you can keep them in one place(ds takes gymnastics and spanish in the after school program where he goes to preK). But when they are in school- aren't the logistics much more difficult?

"I think it is shameful and a reflection of a complete lack of exposure to classical music to fail to recognize the face a world renowned violinist."

Not everyone is a classical music fan. It is no more shameful than not recognizing the face of a world renowned neurosurgeon, for example. I'm sure not everyone can do that.

it is sad but you are right about the classical music. You would have offended my mother who is a classical pianist and a teacher. But then, again, 99% of her students are asian whose parents believe that in order to get a well rounded education, classical music is just as important as sports. These are very middle class families, not "elite".

Brian, you made my day! Leslie and her "alpha girls" can eat their over-achieving unbalanced hearts out. I am the king of puns! Perhaps the post can grant me space so I could become their very own syndicated kingpun. bwahahaha

I read the article and Weingarten's chat, and am a little amused by the number of commenters (some here), who said, well, he should have done it some other time of day so more people could stop. In other words: yes, I am fully open to serendipitous beauty -- as long as it is scheduled to occur when I have an opening in my schedule for it. Ahhh, irony.

I don't do this well myself -- I get caught up in what I'm doing, get tunnel vision about must-accomplish-task-now. It takes a lot to jolt me out of that focus -- if that happened outside my daughter's kindergarten, there's a good chance I would have been focused more on beating traffic in to work. Then again, I listened to the tape, and the music is just beautiful (I used to play violin and hated it, but his playing makes me reconsider). I hope I would have stopped, even for a minute. But I don't know. And that makes me sad.

Also to Jen: consistency doesn't have to mean rigidity. We had the same problem with a playground right at the exit to my daughter's daycare -- sometimes I had time to let her play, sometimes I didn't, so did being consistent mean I always had to say no? It doesn't. Being consistent means that your child always knows what to expect from you. I started to tell her in advance whether we'd be able to play or not, then always followed through with what I said. Maybe you could tell your child in advance no stops when you're really in a rush; or when you do have the time, say you can only stop for 2 minutes, and then leave when you say. There are all sorts of ways to be consistent and still let kids take some detours to enjoy the unexpected.

Good morning, Fred. I hesitated to appropriate the CTOTD. That quotation really touched me though, and I wanted to share. Of Vonnegut's writing, I've only read Slaughterhouse Five. The Times obit made me want to read more of his work. I saw the movie when I was too young (a teenager) to have an understanding of it.

Anyway, thanks for being generous in sharing the CTOTD space for today. I alway enjoy reading your CTOTDs.

Dang it Laura, "I am fully open to serendipitous beauty -- as long as it is scheduled to occur when I have an opening in my schedule for it." Conform, dang it, conform! It is too early to buck for post of the day. ;-P

My middle school son went out one morning to get the paper and was later than usual coming back. Feeling a bit annoyed, I went out to check on him, and found him absolutely transfixed by the sight of a deer in the yard across the street. We watched it for a while together in silence. I am sure I wouldn't have seen it had I gone for the paper, due to single-minded focus. As other posters have noted, this is why having children is such a delight: they are so open to new experiences and so delighted by things outside the routine.

I would have stopped wiht my child if I saw a nice performance on the way HOME from work. However my boss and my co-teacher would have a fit if I was even one minute late-- and the mornings are tight enough as it is. So no, at morning rush, I wouldn't stop. Not because I don't want to but I just can't.

I think I would have stopped. My daughter loves music. She takes a class at school and it is the reason she gets up on Mondays!

I do think it is harder to balance time in DC than other places. The communte alone is killer. I used to be so tired by the time I got home, made dinner, played with the kid, put kid to bed, etc. The weekends were for cathing up.

"I think it is shameful and a reflection of a complete lack of exposure to classical music to fail to recognize the face a world renowned violinist."

If I were on my way to work, I wouldn't have my kid with me and I wouldn't have had the time to notice who the guy was in the first place.

I punch an electronic time card. It's not a good idea for me to be late for work. More navel gazing.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda......

Great topic! I hope I would have stopped. My daughter is only 9 months old, but she would have liked that. I was so impressed recently when I stopped into a coffee shop on my way to work. A mom and her preschooler were in line ahead of me, apparently on their way to work/school. The coffee shop had a french press for sale, and the little boy was asking his mom about it. She took the time to explain how it works, and how some people think it makes the best coffee, etc. She told him that they actually have one at home, and they could try it out if he wanted. That is the kind of mom I hope to be!

To Bethesda: We'll have to lobby Gene to get a deer in a Metro station. I bet that would draw a crowd :)

"I think it is shameful and a reflection of a complete lack of exposure to classical music to fail to recognize the face a world renowned violinist."

Well, I would know Sting or Bono because they were popular before I had young children. While I do enjoy classical music, most of our CD collection was built long ago. I wouldn't know many current pop stars either. I haven't been to a grown-up concert in a long time, though we do take the kids to some wonderful classical children's concerts.

Once in a while, I catch a Great Performances on PBS, but I'm more likely to have heard about Joshua Bell on NPR or read about him in the paper. I wouldn't necessarily recognize his face. Even if I had seen a picture of him in the paper, his look isn't as distinctive or flamboyant as a pop star's (though he is quite handsome).

Brian,

The trouble is that Gene would do it! (the deer)

Did you read Gene's discussion about this event? He explains many of the questions that have been asked here. It was posted on Monday.

I wonder how many people did hear the music but could not stop for whatever reason. Maybe the few seconds of its beauty resounded in their minds the balance of the day.

Laura does get the post of the day award!

(still 54 but getting closer every day!)

My kids likely would have stopped to listen, and I likely would have let them stop for at least a minute or so. Unless we were running late.

But is the enjoyment of the music legitimate only if one stops? What if one slows down to listen and enjoy (multi-tasking, Washington style), or keeps going but enjoys the music as a little pick-me-up as they rush on to work?

What do actions mean? What do they say about humans and culture? Are we getting the right message or clouding it with our preconceived notions?

Can you walk and smell roses at the same time?

I enjoy classical music also, listen to it almost every day even for just 10 minutes or so. Very soothing while driving. But I don't think I would have recognized Bell. I don't even know if I would have recognized Yoyo Ma, and he's even more world-famous. But I do believe that I would have recongized the beauty of the music and that I think was more the point. If people don't even recognize or appreciate truly beautiful art (music in the this case) from a great artist would they appreciate or recognize beauty (in all its many forms) at all.

Brian, and I apologize for calling you Leslie! :-)

"Is part of the commercialization of Tae Kwon Do the fact that kids/adults seemed rushed from belt to belt. When I looked into it quite a few years ago, every place talked about how basicly every 3-6 monnths (or maybe even less, I can't quite recall) you'd test to get a higher belt, acheiving a black belt in a matter of few years. Seems like it should take a good many years to acheive the highest ranking in an art, but maybe that's just me."

Absolutely. A good school will not test you until you are truly ready--for a few gifted students, this means every six months. For most, it means no more than once a year. If you're really fortunate you can find a school that does not have belt rankings--Wing Chun, boxing and Muay Thai are examples. They are also some of the most difficult and practical forms. I'd say, when looking for a school, there are several factors. First, decide which art fits you best, and this may take some time and several tries. I've tried Tang Soo Do, modern Wushu, traditional Shao lin, Muay Thai, boxing, and Mantis kung fu. It really depends on the individual. BF likes Muay Thai, I prefer Mantis. Second, see how commercial the school is. Is the front window lined with huge trophies? How showy are the students and masters? How many tournaments do they do? How often do they test for sashes or belts? Does the master have practical experience (street fighting and work as an Air Marshal, in the case of my Sifu), or is it mostly for show (tournaments and trophies)? Does the master speak the language of the country of origination? Do the students meet outside of class? For example, my Sifu has barbecues every year for all of us, multiple parties for anyone who's graduating/getting married/having a baby, etc., and sometimes he'll just take one or a few of us out to dinner just to chat. When my parents separated the first time, he called me often to see how I was doing and let me know he was available if I wanted to talk about it. Does the master demand perfection, or does he just shrug, say it's good enough, and move you onto the next level? Does the school push you into signing a contract immediately, or do they let you try some classes before signing? Are the higher-level artists fit? An out-of-shape brown belt who gasps for breath during conditioning exercises indicates a lack of overall good fitness and health; the school should emphasize all characteristics of health, including mental health, nutrition, fitness, etc. Does the master know the history of his art and its country of origination? And above all: do you feel comfortable and at home in your school? My school is my family; I've never felt more accepted or more like I belonged in my life than when I step into that studio. I wouldn't accept anything less at this point.

"Alas, Tae Kwon Do, a wonderful martial art has suffered much abuse this last decade. The overcommercialization has ruined something great."

Chris, this is such a shame. TKD has immense potential. Looks like you found one of the good schools. As a soft form practitioner, I give TKD and TSD a lot of flack, but I actually do respect the art. It's the bastardization of them that I hate.

Sorry about hijacking the thread with this post! :-) But I hope it helps anyone who's looking for a school.

Well, mr. Bell was on cnbc last night asking a question to those guys on fast money (I think that's the name of the show-the guys from wall street who are just hanging out having fun)

"However my boss and my co-teacher would have a fit if I was even one minute late-- and the mornings are tight enough as it is. So no, at morning rush, I wouldn't stop. Not because I don't want to but I just can't."

I think this is the point that most are missing. If our schedules are so tight that even a several minute detour in our routine causes such problems, how can we possibly be leading balanced lives?

Do you think maybe they did it during morning rush hour because there would be more people to observe? That way they'd have better results (statistically, anyway).

"However my boss and my co-teacher would have a fit if I was even one minute late-- and the mornings are tight enough as it is. So no, at morning rush, I wouldn't stop. Not because I don't want to but I just can't."

Same here. If the Second Coming happens while I'm on my way to work, I'll miss it and I'm sure I'll be forgiven by Jesus.

I'm the sole provider for my immediate family and the partial provider for several aged relatives.

If I go down, everyone goes down big time. I'm not going to beat myself up for choosing to support very dear people and a couple of beloved pets over some silly social experiment.

I don't anymore, but I used to metro into DC every day. I would have stopped to listen! I wish I could have been there to hear.

I have had to learn to stop and smell the roses again. It is so easy to get caught up in the rush of things.

Chris and Mona,

Yes, it's a shame that so many martial arts schools are so commercial. I've belonged to one for four years that is based in the traditional Korean arts and teaches traditional values. It is non-profit and all the instructors are volunteer. We struggle to keep adult students because it is NOT an easy going belt factory. Getting to black belt can take about 10 years, and only if you're an adult, I think. The kids love it. Check us out if you want: injiyong.org. I'm not trying to be a commercial(!) although I know I sound like one - I just wanted to say that all the good schools aren't dead. When I was in college I went to a similar traditional Karate school in downtown Baltimore. I don't know if they exist anymore...

And to try and keep this somewhat on topic, studying a martial art has really taught me to slow down and listen to life's music!

Would I have stopped? Depends on my schedule. A lot of time, I have flexibility so a few minutes doesn't make a difference, and yeah I'd like to think I would have stopped. On the other hand, if I was heading for an appointment with a demanding customer and time was tight, then no way; the consequences are too severe.

If I was with one or more kids? Probably wouldn't make a difference; we'd stop if we had time; if it was close to an important appointment, no.

DW's response? "Joshua Bell? DDG? His Strad? Classical music? Consequences be darned, I'm watching the whole thing!"

"Do you think maybe they did it during morning rush hour because there would be more people to observe? That way they'd have better results (statistically, anyway)."

They did it on that day at that time because that's when Josh Bell was available.

Ah, Brian....one of the beauties (no pun intended) of being a SAHP is being able to stop and smell the roses. If you doubt for a moment that you would have stopped to listen, you need to do a priority check. :o) I actually thought this was a Leslie post as well, and until someone posted your name and I went back to look, I had been reading it as such.

Jen - "And we are always advised to "BE CONSISTENT" so if I make an exception here for the guy with a violin, then shouldn't I also make an exception to watch the bug on the leaf? "

Yes, you should stop to watch the bug on a leaf as well as listen to the guy with the violin, as often as you can, unless you have a legitamate reason to not do it (i.e. you'll be late for school or work or an appointment, and not "because I said so.") But it shouldn't be an exception. Being consistent doesn't mean "always saying no."

"My husband would have been more likely to stop because it's more in his personality to lay aside schedules and goals and destinations and just appreciate what's right in front of him. It's an admirable trait, but it has an unfortunate tendency to lead to poor performance reviews at work."

Sarah,

How sad for your husband that you dismiss his ability to be in the moment as "an admirable trait, but..."

Silly, affluent people all over the country spend obscene amounts of money on the clothing, accessories, and instructional classes they think are the key to finding serenity, while your husband has it instinctively. He stops and pays attention.

And you seem to have no respect or real admiration for this aspect of his character. Your performance review is, in your scheme of things, more important, more immediately demanding, more reality-based, more deserving of your slavish attention.

That's so sad.

I would have stopped. I love listening at chance encounters with musicians of all genres. Importantly, I'm not going to be fired for being 5 minutes late. (Thanks everyone for reminding me how lucky I am.) So although I can't berate individual people who did not stop, I do think our society is way out of balance since almost no one could or would take 5 minutes to enjoy a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Sure, in the past I've been one of those people who thought what I was doing was oh-so-important -- and sometimes perhaps it was. But now I'm older and either wiser or more tired out. I've had it with running around in circles just so I can be patted on the back for being a hero, even if nothing really came of my showy heroics.

I think it would be interesting if the same experiment was done in Sydney, New York, Paris, London, etc., and then note the different responses. For example, I believe more people would stop in Sydney/Melbourne just because it is part of our culture. I don't believe not stopping has anything really to do with kids. I think it has more to do with the culture of appreciating/approving/ allowing street buskers. Too many people in the US associate buskers with beggars and will not stop.

"How sad for your husband that you dismiss his ability to be in the moment as "an admirable trait, but..."

Silly, affluent people all over the country spend obscene amounts of money on the clothing, accessories, and instructional classes they think are the key to finding serenity, while your husband has it instinctively. He stops and pays attention.

And you seem to have no respect or real admiration for this aspect of his character. Your performance review is, in your scheme of things, more important, more immediately demanding, more reality-based, more deserving of your slavish attention."

On the contrary--it's why I married him and why I love him. When we were first dating, he challenged me to blow off one thing a day, just for the sheer pleasure of being irresponsible and slowing down a bit. I did. And I'm a lot more laid back now than I was back then, entirely thanks to his influence.

so the Washington Post put together this experiment. I wonder how many Washington Post reporters who didnt know of the 'experimental nature' of it stopped on their commutes.

TKD junkie, I'm so glad to hear there are Korean forms still alive and well and not over-commercialized. My experience with them was terrible, but I've always suspected that was a problem with the schools and instructors, not the forms themselves. :-) It's too influential an art to just go to waste on what you so eloquently call a "belt factory."

And I'm with you on stopping to smell the roses--my form has taught me to slow down as well. It didn't come easy--taking Tai Chi classes was a part of the package, at least mentally, but the habit is to do the moves as quickly as possible; Tai Chi forces you to do the opposite. It really helped my world view; I can more easily find beauty in the mundane.

Maria posts:

"However my boss and my co-teacher would have a fit if I was even one minute late-- and the mornings are tight enough as it is. So no, at morning rush, I wouldn't stop. Not because I don't want to but I just can't."

Same here. If the Second Coming happens while I'm on my way to work, I'll miss it and I'm sure I'll be forgiven by Jesus.

I would have agreed that Laura one the post of the day, until this one from Maria. It's a tie in my book. Ladies, you've captured both points exquisitely!

dotted--
Even in this country some cities have a longer tradition of street musicians--New York, Boston, and San Francisco come to mind.

Maybe part of the problem is the layout of DC. The Kennedy Center is pretty removed from the working part of the city if my memory is correct. Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but does DC have a college-level dedicated music conservatory like Berklee or Juilliard? Students from these schools often perform in the subway stations. And people do stop to listen.

egad. "one" should be "won" in my 11:10 post.

I absolutely agree RebelDad. I have told quite a few people about the article in the same context (not many people in Philly read the Post). It's amazing how much a child notices, my own 3 year old daughter included. We really do need to stop and see the forest for the trees every moment of our lives we can.

I love to stop for the bug on the leaf...until my 14 month old tries to eat it :)

Sarah, your 11:04 post was amazingly gracious in light of pittypat's snark.

Pittypat, someone has to pay the bills. That's what gives the other person the freedom to be more laid back. Ying and yang. Try to appreciate that others' marriages and relationship are often about opposites attracting and not about both persons being perfect in the same way.

Mona,

I'm so glad you have a good place, too :)

I looked for YEARS to find a place that was really interested in the art, not just the money. It's changed my life. I started at 31, and it's really helped me get over many physical and mental challenges. Tai Chi never did it for me, personally. I am naturally a very high-strung, anxious person. I HAVE to move fast now that I am able to. And I really enjoy studying a truly combative art. Moving to the point of having "no mind" in class helps me slow down in other areas of life and find inner peace and strength and... balance! :)

"jumping from event to event dulls the ability to appreciate serendipity"

I love that! Serendipity!

I know I wouldn't have stopped with my daughter in tow, and I play classical music in a symphony.

But serendipity is so important in our lives.

A few days ago my 4 year old daughter and I got caught in the rain, she loves standing in the rain, so we did, and both got totally soaked! Walking back to our car, we passed two ladies who I would guess were in their 60s. One looked at me and said to her friend loudly enough so I would hear, "Didn't know it was wet t-shirt contest day" and the other responded, "Well, they'll pay for it with catching a cold" And I smiled to my daughter and told her that standing in the rain was the best 10 minutes I had spent in the past month - honestly!

And I believe that in 20 years I won't remember every single Saturday soccer practice I dragged her to, but I will remember standing in the rain with her.

"I love to stop for the bug on the leaf...until my 14 month old tries to eat it :)"

Ha, my newphew tried to eat a slug once because he thought it was a french fry!

I wouldn't have stopped if I'd been on my way to work. I would have enjoyed the music on the escalator ride. Sad to say, getting where I am going is always my priority.

As a Band Mother I will say that if it's been a clarinet or a trumpet I might have stopped or at least have enjoyed the music more. Certainly if my instrument playing children had been with me I would have.

Overscheduling aside. My son, the one who had trumpet lessons for years that I nagged endlessly to practice, recently signed up to play in a community theater group. Don't ask me why he couldn't have done this when he was in high school and it would have been a resume builder for college applications!

I saw the play, and there were girls in skimpy costumes involved so it may have been more a social interest than a musical one on his part, but I did feel gratified that my seemingly futile efforts at music may have become a fun part of his almost-adult life!

"My son, the one who had trumpet lessons for years that I nagged endlessly to practice"

Great, another whipped man conditioned by his mother to expect and respond to nagging from women!

Why didn't the kid's father NAG him
endlessly??

I'm interested by how many people are still responding to Jen's comment about not stopping for the bug on a leaf and being consistent. That one stuck with me, too -- mostly because I thought, "Hey, I stop for cool bugs on leaves!" Teaching myself the habit of stopping for beauty is something I've been working on the last several years to help restore my own balance.

I find that when I take the time to stop -- for a cool bug, the scent of rain, or a terrific street musician -- it is amazing how much my stress level drops. I suddenly feel more in control of my to-do list, more serene and less harried.

I lost that skill somewhere along the way in my childhood, and it has turned out to be hard to get back, but the reward is worth it!

But momof4, if we stop to watch every bug on every leaf and watch the man with the violin and yadda, yadda, yadda-- then we will never get anything done! while I was a stay at home mom I did have more time to dawdle with the kid, but I decided to go back to work now that he is in school and we have places to go, committments to meet, etc. and it would be rude/ unresponsible to blow off school and work so that we can look at every little thing-- so we have to make choices above what is important to look at and what can be ignored.

I am looking forward to switching to part-time work soon and hopefully that will allow more time to allow serendiptious moments of exploration.

Meanwhile, I think I'm going to stick with making exceptions only when it is something that i am also interested in-- maybe that is cruel, but mommy was starting to go insane looing at every freakin' bug on a two block walk to the playground and that isn't a good for anyone. to those that have the temperment for it-- G-d bless you!

Meanwhile, I'll just have to hope that I'm teaching my child about priorities and discriminating the exceptional from the mundane. (yeah, yeah bugs are "exceptional"-- compared to Joshua Bell playing Bach on his Stadivarius?-- hmmmm, not so much.)

It's not cruel but a bit selfish. Why can't you compromise and sometimes stop for something that he alone is interested in. Not everytime, but sometimes. I agree that it would be annoying to stop and look at every bug we come across, but stopping to look at an occassional bug might lead to some unexpected fun. It is a balance, and ONLY stopping when you are interested is one-sided not balanced (which I believe is what this blog is about).

That's the main reason I took my daughter and left the metro WDC area: far too hectic. I didn't want to have to schedule play dates, I didn't want to give up three hours of my life every day commuting to and from work. My commute time here is an hour total each day, and my kid goes out after school and knocks on the neighbors' doors to play with her friends.

We would have stopped for the musician: my daughter is a music student and she would have stopped me. We have a different mindset living out here in the desert... we stop for the coyotes, too!

Jen -- you crack me up! And you know how it goes -- one bug is interesting, but the resulting bug obession is annoying!

***Off topic alert***

I wondered what some of you thought about the difficuties of true rape victims coming forward when false (and very public) accusations of rape occur? Does it justify a column like the following?

---

LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED

April 12, 2007 -- HER name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

She is the woman who falsely accused three Duke University students of rape.

Yesterday, the attorney general of North Carolina came forward and flatly declared the three young men "innocent of these charges."

That means their accuser is a liar.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

It is the policy of the news media not to publish the names of rape accusers on the grounds that they should not have to fear public shame for coming forward with word of a horrifying personal violation.

That is a noble policy. But it needs a codicil. The codicil is that if a rape accuser is revealed as a liar, her name should be spoken loudly and often - as loudly and often as the names of those whom she falsely accused have been over the past year.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

She must be denied anonymity because she makes a mockery of the very policy of granting anonymity to rape accusers. We do not publish their names so that they will not fear public exposure. But people who are tempted to do the monstrous thing Mangum did should fear public exposure.

They should be terrified of it.

They should have nightmares about it.

They should be given no encouragement whatsoever to believe they can launch a nuclear weapon at someone's reputation and escape unscathed.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum, and she should not escape the world's scorn because she is poor, or because she is black, or because her life circumstances led her to work as a "stripper."

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum, and she does not deserve to lick the underside of the shoes of hardworking and honest people of color and modest means who somehow manage to get through life without attempting to destroy and defile the lives of others.

At his press conference yesterday, Attorney General Roy Cooper said something odd about the liar Crystal Gail Mangum. He said she would face no charges for her false accusation.

He said, "Our investigators who talked with her and the attorneys who talked with her over a period of time think that she may actually believe the many different stories that she has been telling. They worked real hard with her. It doesn't make sense. You can't piece it together."
The suggestion here is that she has psychological problems. So do millions upon millions of people in the United States. And they too manage, somehow, not to spin lies about rape into false arrests.

They somehow manage not to force families of those they falsely accuse to incur legal fees reportedly totaling more than $1 million per family. These families are sometimes described as "affluent," as though the fact that they live in nice communities in nice houses means they can afford million-dollar fees.

Attorney General Cooper did a good thing by making so unambiguous a statement of innocence as he freed David Evans, Reade Seligmann and Colin Finnerty from their year of torment.

Until I hear more that might justify his decision beyond a desire not to inflame racial passions in the Tar Heel State, I cannot help think that Cooper has done a very, very wrong thing by allowing Crystal Gail Mangum to avoid the judgment of his state's legal system.

Unless he changes his mind, then, the only justice she will face is the public exposure of her name and the revelation to all the world that, if she had had her way, three young men would have been sent to prison on false charges.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

Let her name be the new Mudd.

Now assuming that you were going to the playground for your son's enjoyment then what would it matter if you just went for a bug walk instead. But perhaps you were going to meet with other moms so the purpose of the playground was two-fold.

From another perspective, only looking at what you are interested might very well teach your son not only to discriminate exceptional from medicore, but that what mommy wants/is interested in is important and what I'm interested is not.

"what mommy wants/is interested in is important and what I'm interested is not."

LOL - in my house, mommy wanted homework done before tv, but the children are interested in tv, not homework. You better believe that what mommy is interested in is more important -- in some situations.

Texas Dad of 2

I wonder why you continue to copy and paste articles to try to drum up interest?

Sarah,

I'm glad to know that you love your husband for his unique abilities and that you've learned from him some lessons in rose-sniffing. I'm sure he's learned from you, as well, in ways that have made him a better person.

One of the commuters who didn't stop to listen said he didn't notice because he was listening to music on his iPod. (I think it was the Cure--not classical, but great music!) This would most likely be me. I am sure I miss out on the occasional moment of serendipity because I listen to music while I walk to work--but it's music I adore and have chosen for the very reason that it adds serenity or energy to my experience of each day.

I think it's important to note that we are all missing all kinds of beauty, all the time--but not always in service of drab everyday routines. Sometimes it's because we've already chosen a different beauty.

With all the talk of the terrible hectic lifestyles here in the WDC area I have to wonder just how many of us are truly effected by it? We have a one year old and since her birth have met a few families on our block of townhomes with toddlers. Two of us knock on each other's doors when we are going for walks to the park and make spontaneous playdates. My husband's commute is about 5 minutes, mine about half an hour. I balance by working from home when I can and leaving early when I can, to avoid extra traffic. Although things feel hectic in my life from time to time and of course I do get tired from the day to day grind, I wonder if it would really be different in a different city, or if we use WDC as an excuse? This of course worries me for the future when we're on to kindergarten and elementary school ... but can it really be that bad that we won't look at the pretty spring flowers or stop to listen to the 'birdies' singing like we do now?

Texas Dad of 2,
I agree wholeheartedly with the concept of some type of punishment for a false accuser (atho the families could perhaps sue in civil court the young woman has no money) however; I can't help but feel that women who are true victims of assault may be afraid to come forward now.
The same holds true for the teenage girls here in MD a couple of years back who falsely accused a teacher of sexual misconduct only because they weren't happy with their grades. His career and good name were lost forever.

Wow, New Poster is very judgemental. I don't like that...

I was appalled when I heard about this case. I, like a lot of people, thought those young men were guilty. It made me think about my daughter and how I would kill someone who did that to her. Now we all know she lied and I feel no sympathy for her--none. I think she should be prosecuted. False claims of rape and racism only hurt the people who actually experience it.

Those boys will always be branded with rape even though they are innocent.

Scarry,
And the crime is such that unless there is a video or another witness it is very difficult to prove, even if it goes to court.

Pittypat! How ya doing? I remember you love the holiday lights -- so are you stopping and smelling the roses this spring (well, I guess it's tulips now)?

I could tell all of you that I'm one of those wonderful, peaceful folks who enjoys all of life's details, and you might believe me when you see me literally smelling the roses. But I love Spring in DC and I love to grow plants and garden and be outside -- those are things I really enjoy. But I'm sure I would have walked past that violin concert!

Tx dad of 2, I think it does justify a column like that. People like her crying wolf desensitize society. I do not think that there is a person who does not at least know someone who really did suffer such a tragedy in real life (my own mother). For this woman to come forward and ruin the reputations of 3 people is a tragedy as well! Can you imagine if they were wrongfully convicted as a result? Maybe 10-20 years later DNA evidence would have set them free if it had not just done so already, as it has for many- but look at how that lost time/money can destroy a person's life! A rape victim can overcome their tragedy, but what she nearly did to these boys could have done them harm that would have been neer impossible to overcome. They themselves could have been raped in prison, but in fact were left violated by the whole process anyway! I think real rape victims should be encouraged to come forward more so the guilty can be punished, but slanderers/scammers need prosecuted and exposed to the fullest extent of the law to discourage a different type of rape.

KLBUBut one should only be afraid to come forward if one is lying. Exactly what the article stated.

"adults have lost track of what it's like to be a kid, and likewise, endlessly curious"

I was really struck by this comment, and by Jen's posts as well. My son is also a dawdler who wants to stop and look at everything and just goof around a bit. It's always one more thing. So I find myself often struggling with the desire to just get something done, the need to get to work, or whatever it is that I'm focused on and my sympathy with how frustrating it must be for him to so often have to conform to our schedules and my desire to encourage his curiosity and imagination. I feel like we so rarely let kids just be anymore. So I've tried to build in more time to allow for the inevitable explorations between the front door and the car door in the morning, and I've tried to learn to either let him take the time and truly appreciate it with him, or just say no and move on, but not to let him stop and be impatient about it. But it is something I have to often stop and evaluate - does it really matter if I take two more minutes on the way to X?

"But one should only be afraid to come forward if one is lying. Exactly what the article stated."

But it is very rarely clear cut whether she is lying or not, and as so many victims of sexual violence will tell you, the fear of not being believed is huge. The idea that you could be telling the truth but everyone will think you are lying, and then you will have to face something like this, seems to me would be a pretty big disincentive.

"False claims of rape and racism only hurt the people who actually experience it".

I take this back, I think they probably did say racist stuff to her when she and the other girl were dancing, which is really sad, but does not warrent false rape charges.

A significant number of women/people who are assaulted NOW don't come forward. Bashing this woman won't help. Punishing without resorting to name calling would be more appropriate.

Bashing this woman won't help.

I don't feel sorry for her, but I do think she has mental issues.

As I live in a very small town, silence sometimes pervades the neighborhood.

"With no noise of civilization in my ears
Only the crickets and frogs speaking to me"

As other have said this morning, music has its beauty as do bugs on a leaf.

I take from Gene Weingarten's article a challenge to myself to look for the beauty in everyday life.

On CTOTD tomorrow (if I am not too busy listening to the birds) The surprising connection between eggs and culture!

Aw, would you look at that! A MOOmy who admits that it's not all flowers and sunshine and bugs!

Chris- you leave out your 'to be's. I have to ask...are you from Pittsburgh? he he he...

I have to agree with KLB's point. It doesn't serve to bash her any more than it was appropriate to bash the boys last year. However, I believe it is now appropriate to publish her name. Speaking as a parent of a lacrosse player, I have to say this episode has been a cloud on the whole sport down here in NC.

I want to take my guitar over to that spot at L'Enfant Metro now. I'll bet I could make alot of $$$ now that the Post has shamed everyone into thinking they have to stop!

It hasn't been mentioned, but I think some people didn't stop because they automatically stereotype buskers as homeless degenerates; that might have been the reason for shuffling the children away (in addition to needing to get the kids to daycare on time, needing to get to the office on time to make a living to support said kids, etc). Seriously, buskers sometimes do snort/mainline/drink their respective takes--in most cases, it's not a wholesome career choice.

You know just because I was lactating for 2 years doesn't make me a MOOmy! (sure felt like it sometimes!)

"and it would be rude/ unresponsible to blow off school and work so that we can look at every little thing"

Of course you shouldn't blow off school and work to look at bugs. But too often we fall into the trap of "no, we can't stop" even when there's no compelling reason to *not* stop. Other posters have said they might not have stopped to listen to the violin on their way to work, but they would have on their way home. But too many people wouldn't stop either time because they're so conditioned to reach their destination as quickly as possible.

I understand your point about how you can't *always* stop. But you made it sound like if you do stop it's an exception to the rule and you're not being consistent, and I think the exception should be *not* stopping. :o) You can be consistent by saying "we have a few minutes to spare this morning so it's OK to stop" but on the days you don't "we're on our way to school and we're running late so we can't stop."

Funny how big a deal it is for white men to be falsely accused of a crime. We are oh so concerned about the impact to their reputations, the cost to their families of the defense. There is rarely any attention given to the cost to black men in reputation and resources, when they are falsely accused of a crime.

If Crystal Gail was white and the lacrosse players black, the state a.g. would never have taken over this case. There would have been no outcry on behalf of the young men. If they'd been tried and found not guilty, no one would refer to them as "innocent". They'd say they got off.

It's amazing, but absurdly American ,that Gene Weingarten (drug mainliner and adulterer) has set himself up as the "Stop and Smell the Roses" poster boy!

And not only their reputations and cost of attorneys-the team wwas not ranked-they canceled games etc. They lost out on all sorts of stuff just because they were accused-no one wanted to even wait for a trial.

Funny how big a deal it is for white men to be falsely accused of a crime. We are oh so concerned about the impact to their reputations, the cost to their families of the defense. There is rarely any attention given to the cost to black men in reputation and resources, when they are falsely accused of a crime.

So because these guys were rich white kids, it is OK to forever smear their reputations? What a racist statement that is.

You are right about the black accused and white accuser but the answer is not condemn the white kids due to the color of thier skin, but to expect equal concern and attention to the falsely accused black person.

If these kids weren't rich they would have been raped in prison. I suppose that would be a fitting punishment for being white.

"I take this back, I think they probably did say racist stuff to her when she and the other girl were dancing, which is really sad, but does not warrent false rape charges."

Scarry,

I'm only guessing, but maybe it wasn't what those particular boys said. Maybe it was just hearing the same kind of filth, over and over, from so many mean-spirited boys. Maybe she just cracked and lashed out as a result of an overload of abuse and humiliation.

I'm not excusing, just trying to find an explanation...

Did somebody say something, or was it just nobody?

There was not sufficient evidence to prove charges of rape or sexual assault, so the attorney general dropping the charges is appropriate.

I looked back at some of the news stories. No toxicology tests were conducted to confirm the presence or absence of a date-rape drug. There was evidence of blunt-force trauma consistent with sexual assault. I don't believe there was conclusive evidence of that trauma occurring at the time of the alleged rape or at any other specific time. The testimony of the other woman present that night changed.

I can't say conclusively what happened or didn't happen to Crystal Gail Mangum. The attorney general claiming the "boys" (these were men all over 18) are innocent does not mean they did nothing wrong or are of good character. The prosecutor should not have brought charges with insufficient evidence. In that sense, the accused were wronged. Most news organizations were pretty irresponsible too--big surprise there!

I'm not convinced this is so cut and dry though in terms of no sexual assault occurring. The report of the sexual assault medical staff suggests the possibility. If that report has been refuted, I would be quicker to believe that the accuser is completely guilty of false accusation.

oh SNAP, you go New Poster

I think that we should have a similar law for the accused that we do for the victim. That way if the charges are false the accused, would be protected.

momof4-- good point. I guess I've been trying to force myself to be consistent and it just doesn't come naturally to me so I am doing to all wrong. I'm starting to think my child will actually be better off if i stick with full time work rather than spend more time with me since I really haven't got this parenting thing worked out. hopefully by the kid I have 4 kids I'll have your wisdom!

Hi, Arlington Dad!

Yes, I tend to stop for any aesthetic diversion -- partly because I'm easily distractable and partly because I love feeling the momentary joy of something beautiful.

I've been smelling a lot of hyacinths lately. Only downside to all this springtime sniffing is that tree pollen allergy has filled my head with all kinds of nasty stuff. Ugh.

i meant to write "by the time I have 4 kids . . ."

The DA said there was insufficient evidence that there even was an assault.

These kids should sue the DA Nifong for the way he handles this case. He saw balck "victim", rich white "perps" and use the case to get re-elected.

He should be in jail.

"i meant to write "by the time I have 4 kids . . ."

Don't do us any favors.

Pittypat -- I put up lights -- colored lights -- for the first time this year. I finally figured out that you can get a $3 doo-hickey that you can screw into your porch light, and they you can plug your lights into that. Truth be told, I used to think colored lights were "tacky," but they've grown on me, and the response from my two littles ones was truly magical.

As far as "smelling the roses," it's very cute now that my (genius) four-year old can point out and promounce "forsythia." The DC area has beautiful blooming trees and gardens all over -- not just the Tidal Basin!

Ah yes, not that flu season is just about over (knock on wood), it's allergy season.

But truly I'm not trying to be judgemental, I didn't say Jen was cruel, she said it of herself. I did say it sounded a bit selfish but when someone writes "I'm ONLY going to stop if I'm interested..." that does sound selfish, might not really be what she meant but it is what she wrote. And it's because I was there myself. I still tell my kids sometimes that if mommy is going nuts it's not a good thing for any of us.

But I've been able to step back, after having certain attitudes questioned, and see that now that I have kids it is not ONLY about me, but also about them and that they have wants, dreams, and interests different from mine that are important to them. Just as important to them as some of mine are to me. That's the BALANCING part for me, trying to provide balance within our whole family. It doesn't mean that I always get my way, or they always get their way--but that we work to balance things out.

Those boys will always be branded with rape even though they are innocent.
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This is one of the only cases where the final innocence has proclaimed at least as loudly as the original charges. Who is it that is branding them?

This goes back to the alpha comment yesterday. We have had people serve years on death row who were wrongly convicted. But yet there is more of an outcry over the pain (and I will admit there was some) of these alpha-boys for whom the justice system worked to correctly clear their names. I feel bad for them - but do think the sympathy they are getting is disproportionate to others who suffer much worse fates in the judicial system.

That's the BALANCING part for me, trying to provide balance within our whole family. It doesn't mean that I always get my way, or they always get their way--but that we work to balance things out.

Well said New Poster! We too work hard to be family focused, not child focused - there's a big difference and it can be difficult, but it is about respecting each member of the family.

Jen -- stop that. You have no reason to be so critical of yourself or your parenting techniques. Patience comes in many different forms, so stop beating yourself up. You haven't told us too much, but so far we know that you nurse your child (that's good) and walk your child to the park (that's good) and you don't look at every bug (that's sane).

Entering the conversation late in the game, as usual, but...

I'm amazed at not only the number of people who seem to have very strict work schedules, but also the number of people who leave themselves so little time to get where they're going! I'm lucky enough to have a flexible schedule, but even if I didn't, I'm sure I'd give myself more than 2 seconds of leway to get where I was going...

I agree that the DA said there was insufficient evidence. I agree that he should not have gone forward with the charges.

My point is that the accuser deserves to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt if she is to be convicted of making a false accusation.

Yes, the report of the sexual assault experts was insufficient to prove that an assault occurred at the time/place she accused the players of assaulting her. I understand this to mean insufficient in terms of legal evidence for the purposes of a trial.

It doesn't mean that she did not suffer blunt force trauma. According to the report, she suffered blunt force trauma. The testimony of witnesses can't confirm when or where the trauma occurred. It seems to me that it is possible that trauma occurred in that bathroom--provable, no, but possible. I don't think any of the witnesses in the house that night are credible.

I'm sure an attorney could explain what I mean better.

I think what Marian's point is that saying there is not enough evidence for a conviction is not the same as saying the accused person is innocent.

I don't know the details of this case, so I can't say what's what here, but it is certainly true that lack of evidence does not always equal innocence.

Anti-rape condom:
http://www.rapestop.net/index.asp

A great idea. But suppose some girl uses it for malice (found out her husband cheated, is abusive, etc.)? When the man goes to the hospital to get it removed, he will automatically be assumed to be a rapist.

However, I do think it's a great idea, and would love to see it hit the market.

The only "proof" of innocence would be the accuser recanting her story. Even then there would always be the fear of intimidation.

Funny how big a deal it is for white men to be falsely accused of a crime.
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The reasons that this case was even brought to the public discussion are that 1) the media overplayed it, 2)Certain elements in the black community seized upon it for their purposes 3)The "Group of 88" Duke professors basically found the individuals guilty without any evidence and 4) an individual running for DA used it for political purposes.

The investigation was blotched from the beginning, exculpatory evidence was withheld, the accusers not even interviewed for several months after the alleged crime, a staged lineup held to "identify" the attacker and many other errors in procedure were made.

The AG of NC made a definitive statement that the accused were innocent. No evidence whatsoever was found to base any thread of criminal activity. The NYT has some of the original court documents posted as well as the statement of the AG of NC.

Beyond this, the AG stated that the accuser has a history of mental problems which cast doubt on the several versions of the story that she told over the months of investigation. This is also the reason he stated for not pursuing any charges against the accuser.

To Really???---

In ga we have the ga innocence project , which just freed a man wrongly convicted and yes, that was screamed froM the rafters. And the ga state govt is about to pass a law that will give him about 1.5 million dollars-doesnt make up for the pain, but at least helps to apologize.

No, Marian, I think you explained it very well. The main issue is very little evidence and its lack of quality. I agree with you and with "really."

I also find it very curious that the Attorney General would say he believed the men were innocent. I would expect more of "I believe there is not enough evidence to move forward in this case." But then again, this case has been emotion-filled on all sides from jump, understandably.

To Marian,

I agree with you. If I recall correctly, the prosecutor said she believed what she was saying, the problem was she had several conflicting versions of the event. I.e. unreliable witness. Doesn't mean she was deliberately lying, but there wasn't enough for the case to go to trial.

Finally - publishing names - what good will that do? It's hard enough for rape victims to come forward as it is - now you're going to say, if you can't prove your case, we'll shame you to the whole world? C'mon. I'm sure she's been through hell herself too.

"This goes back to the alpha comment yesterday. We have had people serve years on death row who were wrongly convicted. But yet there is more of an outcry over the pain (and I will admit there was some) of these alpha-boys for whom the justice system worked to correctly clear their names."

To: really?

Thank you for this observation. I've heard the claim "Their lives have been ruined" a few too many times in the past two days.

Relative to a wrongly accused and convicted person who has served time in prison or been executed, the lives of these boys have barely been touched.

Yes, things will be different for them than might have been the case if the incident hadn't occurred. But lives ruined? Hardly.

They'll still have good educations that will get them good jobs. They'll have good food, nice clothes, warm, stable homes, probably pretty good lives, all-in-all.

Perhaps they will have learned something valuable from this and will work to improve the inequalities that exist in the society they inhabit. The speech made by the one young man (was it Seligmann?) suggested that his eyes had been opened to the plight of people who lack resources. Let's hope this discovery sticks with him as he decides on a career path.

In any case, all three would do well to keep a low profile over the next few years. As the columnist in the Charlotte Observer noted, no one in this situation is blameless.

From the NYT article

"This came after it had been revealed that sophisticated DNA tests found no traces from any of the three defendants -- or any other Duke lacrosse player -- on her body or clothes. DNA from other men, however, was found."

so... dotted, I had no IDEA what on earth you were talking about at first, in reference to me leaving out my two bees. ;-P
They buzzed off in order TO BE free from becoming excessive supurflous words in an already over-weighty cumbersome sounding sentence. ;-) To be, or not to be? Why insert extra words?

Pittsburgh? The city of male sibling affection? Not I! TO BE further from the truth, would be quite an accomplishment! I am from an undisclose-ed location, specifically, not that one (I now duck behind the