We pay $12 a hour for two very young children being watched by a grown woman with 25 years of preschool teaching experience. I would never trust a teenager with my 1 and 4 year olds.

The kid swap works great for us, but I wonder about single parents? How are they able to manage? Do they do this? In our neighborhood the expectation is that when the parents retrun from their date, their child is asleep in their room-- but to work that as a single parent, you'd have to bring your child with you and risk having them fall asleep and then shlep a sleeping child back to your house. OR the single parent would say, sure I can watch your kid, but it'll have to be at my place. With married/coupled parents one stays with their kids, and the other goes the other parents house and it works great.

The kid swap works great for us, but I wonder about single parents? How are they able to manage? Do they do this? In our neighborhood the expectation is that when the parents retrun from their date, their child is asleep in their room-- but to work that as a single parent, you'd have to bring your child with you and risk having them fall asleep and then shlep a sleeping child back to your house. OR the single parent would say, sure I can watch your kid, but it'll have to be at my place.

I was in a babysitting coop for nearly a decade while I was a SAHM mom. Daytime swaps were at the sitter's house, at night the sitter came to your house. Hours were earned were called into a secretary - there were 30 families in the coop (always a waiting list), and the job of secretary rotated on a monthly basis, so that meant you did it like once every 2 1/2 years - not much of a bureaucratic burden. It was fabulous - cost free, worry free babysitting at a time when we were so dead broke that we never would have gotten out if we had to pay even the modest babysitting rates at the time, to say nothing of the problem of finding an available and reliable teen. The only down side was having to face the fact that other parents prefered my husband over me for the night time sits - he started doing them when our uber-fussy youngest was born, since it was a major crisis for me to be away from her, even for a couple of hours. After a while, othe members would call and specifically ask for HIM for an evening sit, saying he was their kids favorite sitter. I used to joke with him about being married to Mary Poppins!

I've never quite understood the concept of trying to get away with paying the least amount possible for babysitting. Sure, the price should be commensurate with the experience and services offered, but come on! These people are taking care of your children, not your houseplants. Why should you pay someone more money to mow your lawn than to watch your children? Now a co-op I could see, but I wouldn't begrudge paying someone $40 to watch my kids for an evening.

Brian

Make sure background checks are done on all of the members of the co-op!

I pay a high schooler $8 an hour to watch my 4 and 7 year olds. She was a counselor at my son's preschool camp last summer - he just fell in love with her and I knew we could trust her since she worked at the preschool. Both kids look forward to her coming over so it's a win-win for everyone. When the kids were younger I used college students that I found on an American University website and paid between $10 and $12 an hour. I've never done a babysitting swap with another family although I've had some of my daughter's friends over for sleep-overs to help parents out.

A friend of mine went on a date that started around 10 PM. She asked her older daughter (13) to watch the younger one (5), promising $20 to the older and $10 to the younger, for good behaviour. Both kids were thriled to get the money that normally would go to high school kid down the street for doing essentially nothing. The funny part was that the older kid was so excited that she fell asleep before the younger (and before he mom left), so she was sorely tempted to reverse the payoff terms. Before you advise me to call CPS on her -- it happened 5 years ago, the kids are still alive and well, and the story is part of the family lore. It's called "Baby"sitting for a reason: if a kid can walk to school/get on a school bus/is of legal age to be left alone (7 or 8 years old in most jurisdictions ) -- go for it. Give her/him a computer, a couple of DVDs, well stocked fridge and drop the "baby" sitter.

No wonder the under-16 crowd has to beg their parents for money. No babysitting opportunities!! We have an au pair who lives in, so we haven't had to deal with babysitters in a while. But there are two teenagers who I have my eye on. They're both very responsible young women. I don't care for the parenting/babysitting style of either of the women who've volunteered to swap with me. I'll watch their kids, but they're not going to watc mine. With one of them, she's a screamer and it upsets my children, and the other is so distracted that she's almost not visible.

If you want to be safe, never ever have a teenage boy or a man babysit your kids unless the guy has his girlfriend / wife there to help out.

WorkingMomX

"I don't care for the parenting/babysitting style of either of the women who've volunteered to swap with me. I'll watch their kids, but they're not going to watc mine. "

A twist. Neighbor's kids are MONSTERS. It is exhausting to be with them for 2 minutes. I don't want my kids near the parents of these brats and I will NEVER let these kids in my house again. It's a cinch that they will end up in handcuffs.

It's the other way round-kids don't need the money and that's why babysitting's so expensive.

"It's called "Baby"sitting for a reason: if a kid can walk to school/get on a school bus/is of legal age to be left alone (7 or 8 years old in most jurisdictions ) -- go for it. Give her/him a computer, a couple of DVDs, well stocked fridge and drop the "baby" sitter."
________________________

Yikes! A 7 or 8 year old left alone for a whole evening????????? Could that child handle a real emergency? Be counted on to be responsible?

Here's the Virginia guidelines:

7 & under Should not be left alone for any period of time. This may include leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and backyards. The determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene.

8 to 10 yrs. Should not be left alone for more than 1½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours.

11 to 12 yrs. May be left alone for up to 3 hours but not late at night or in circumstances requiring inappropriate responsibility.

13 to 15 yrs. May be left unsupervised, but not overnight.

16 to 17 yrs. May be left unsupervised (in some cases, for up to two consecutive overnight periods).

Depends on the sitter. I have one sitter who only comes over after our 2 year goes to bed. She never sees him, she gets $6 an hour. I have a colege age babysitter and a professional nanny who make $10 an hour. And I normally tip on that.

Another blog topic pretty much exhausted by 9:00 a.m. ....

It's the other way round-kids don't need the money and that's why babysitting's so expensive.

Posted by: atlmom | July 12, 2007 08:27 AM

_________________

I totally agree! Kids aren't hungry enough to earn money these days...they're already getting all the money/stuff they need/want from their parents.

Not that I want to start this battle again, but my brother was a wonderful babysitter. "Victimized and Abused," not all men have uncontrollable impulses to abuse children, and not all women are free from those impulses. Your advice would be better as "be sure to get tons of references from any potential babysitter, teach your child about inappropriate touching, ask your child how the night went, and trust your gut if something doesn't seem right."

Best free babysitting == grandparents! Of course, a lot of people don't live close to extended family anymore, so not everyone can have Granma keep the kiddies overnight.

The only times I had to pay for sitting was when I lived in Savannah (before that, I was in my hometown, and in Raleigh I had my sister nearby). One piece of advice I have is to make sure your sitter (especially if the sitter is a teenager) has taken and passed a safety course of some type. The Islands 'Y' offered babysitting classes to potential babysitters who were at least 13 years old. If you're hiring anyone younger than college age, I would also suggest hiring someone whose parents are very close by. Our sitter in Savannah lived on our cul-de-sac, so if anything had gone wrong, she would have had her parents pretty much right there.

"I totally agree! Kids aren't hungry enough to earn money these days...they're already getting all the money/stuff they need/want from their parents"

Yup, in my day we worked like dogs for 5 cents an hour, and we liked it!

kattoo

"I totally agree! Kids aren't hungry enough to earn money these days...they're already getting all the money/stuff they need/want from their parents.

Yes. I rarely see kids wih shovels or rakes looking for work these days. When I was a teenager, we raced to pick up these small jobs.

*only times I had to pay for sitting was*

I meant *only times I had to pay for sitting were* -- need more caffiene...

And, I paid $5/hr, but that was more than 10 years ago.

If you had them, why should somebody else sacrifice their time to take care of them? Pay for the care of your own kids, for Pete's sake. I suppose you want free childcare, free health care, free elder care, free schools, all paid for by the Government. Then you get defensive when the Government wants to search your luggage at the airport.

I think co-op arrangements are a great idea, and I hope that when we have kids we'll be able to swap instead of hirirng someone.

But don't complain too much about how much it costs to hire a babysitter. My brothers always made more than me in a half hour of mowing someone's lawn than I did for a whole evening babysitting multiple kids. I realize that babysitting might not be as physically strenuous, but I think priorities can get a little skewed sometimes. I'm glad to hear that rates for babysitting have increased since I was a teenager.

"If you had them, why should somebody else sacrifice their time to take care of them? Pay for the care of your own kids, for Pete's sake. I suppose you want free childcare, free health care, free elder care, free schools, all paid for by the Government. Then you get defensive when the Government wants to search your luggage at the airport"

Um...aren't public school free?

I participate in a sitting co-op w/ my moms club. It works well for daytime sitting but not so well for evenings. It's done on a point system with points earned/paid for 15 minutes of sitting, extra half points for each additional child. Evening and weekend sits are double points. Members take turns being the coordinator to keep the point tallies.

For evenings we use either an adult sitter for $12 for 2 kids, age 2 and 4, or a high school student for $8. I'm equally comfortable with both of them but the adult tends to be available more often. It seems like the mature, responsible teens are also very busy. Our teen sitter (I'll call her "Anne") is on swim team, involved in drama productions, church youth group, sr. girl scouts, and works as a life guard in the summer. She is also less reliant on babysitting pay. Our adult sitter (aka "Marta") is a foreign college student and relies on sitting income to pay the bills.

We could probably pay as little as $5/hr for a teenager. That's what Anne originally quoted but we felt that wasn't a fair rate, given that we'd been paying college students $12/hr. So, we initially paid her $7/hr and raised her to $8 when she got her driver's license, meaning we no longer have to pick her up/take her home. I also figure that with her busy schedule she's more likely to make time to sit if we're paying a bit more.

I don't think I'd be comfortable with a teenager I've never met, but Anne is from our church and we know her family and spent a bit of time with her before asking her to babysit. We have also used a couple friends of hers (also kids we're familiar with from church) when we've been in a bind and Anne and Marta were both unavailable. That has worked out fine and I trust Anne's recommendations. She also has a little sister who I'll have to start trying out for babysitting. Anne is a senior this year so I only have one more year with her. That's one problem with teenagers -- they all leave for college!

Victimized & Abused AKA Father of 4

"If you want to be safe, never ever have a teenage boy or a man babysit your kids unless the guy has his girlfriend / wife there to help out."

Right. Men never ever commit crimes when the girlfiend/wife is around. Get real!

If you want to be safe, never ever have a teenage boy or a man babysit your kids unless the guy has his girlfriend / wife there to help out.

Get help, please.

I can see some potential problems with a babysitting co-op. Like others have posted, you may not like other parents or other kids in the co-op. How can you avoid them? Also, does anybody worry about other parents suing you if something happens to their kid in your house or yard? Do you have people sign a waiver before accepting their kids into your home?

We pay $15 an hour for most of the babysitters (all 20 somethings with other jobs during the day but looking for extra cash in the pm). One babysitter charges $20 and hour. She is a preschool teacher at my kids school. We have 2 kids age 3 and 5.

I have not had to hire teenagers. I hire the young adults that are recently married and desparately need money (working 2 and 3 jobs -- one of which is babysitting). I absolutely dont begrudge them the money and in fact we usually give them tips because I know how hard it is at the beginning and we can afford to do so. The result is that we frequently have babysitters calling us asking when we are going out again.

If you had them, why should somebody else sacrifice their time to take care of them? Pay for the care of your own kids, for Pete's sake. I suppose you want free childcare, free health care, free elder care, free schools, all paid for by the Government. Then you get defensive when the Government wants to search your luggage at the airport.
__________

What does all that have to do with security checks at the airport??

We hire a professional nanny to sit (she's another family's nanny, but wants to earn extra money on the weekends). The rate is $15 per hour (which is in the normal range in our area for someone with her experience) - even though our daughter is 7 months old and asleep for the vast majority of the time the sitter is there. There are plenty of areas in our lives that we can and do look to economize, but the person taking care of our daughter is not one of them. It does limit what we do when we go out, though - the $45-$60 comes out of the overall entertainment budget.

Re: Cost of teenaged babysitters. I agree it is a supply/demand situation pushing up the cost of hiring a teenage sitter (too few sitters available for the jobs pushes up the pay for those who take the jobs). But I've found it isn't that teens don't want or need the money they could earn. It seems to be a case of the teens simply not having the time to babysit with the academic demands and extra-curricular activities expected of them to apply to college.

"What does all that have to do with security checks at the airport??"

Nothing. Today's topic is boring.

"Yes. I rarely see kids wih shovels or rakes looking for work these days. When I was a teenager, we raced to pick up these small jobs."

Totally! I mowed lawns and shovelled sidewalks as a kid.

I put an ad on Craigslist for someone to let my dogs out on days when both my husband and I are at work. I offered $8 per visit. That's $8 to open the back door and close it 20 minutes later. I only got one reply, and she later blew me off! It's summer; where are all the broke kids looking for extra cash?

Meesh, you asked "Also, does anybody worry about other parents suing you if something happens to their kid in your house or yard? Do you have people sign a waiver before accepting their kids into your home?"

Maybe it's naive, but no. We have a $1 million umbrella policy (I think that's what it's called) and I guess that's what we would turn to if someone decided to sue us for an injury that occurred on our property.

"It's summer; where are all the broke kids looking for extra cash?"

Asking their parents for it of course. One of the guys I work with was just complaining about this exact problem with his 17yo daughter. Twenty bucks here, 10 bucks there every day. He told her the well is drying up and she should find a way to earn her own movie money or start helping around the house. Much bigger problems here of course but seems to be a trend among many teenages (not all obviously).

Meesh

"It's summer; where are all the broke kids looking for extra cash?"

There have been times where I would have been thrilled to earn $15.00 an hour doing almost anything, but I can't stand kids.

Have you also noticed that the career of a teenaged babysitter is very, very short! When they're 12, turning 13, they're very excited and want to sit. They take the babysitting class at the local hospital, and they arrive games in hand--and really play with your child. Then, by the time they're 14, they don't want to do it. They have a bigger social life--and will do it occasionally. Then, by the time they're 15, forget it. Their social calendar is booked!

This morning, I heard on the radio about a survey of moms. Moms would rather work part-time than full time. And they'd rather work, than not work. Did anyone else hear that? I think it's interesting that moms would rather work, than not.

With both of us working full-time and using a center for day care we rarely, rarely go out on nights or weekends because we don't want more time away. So, we only hire a babysitter about two times a year when it cannot be avoided. We pay about $10 an hour for one 4-year-old. We also "round up" when calculating the payment, if it doesn't come out an even number of hours. Other mothers in my neighborhood think we pay wayyyyy too much (they pay more like $6 or $7 an hour), but if we need someone we NEVER have a problem getting a sitter.

Side note: I am one of five daughters. I grew up in a house of girls who babysat. I babysat. Everyone of us will tell you it was the families who could least afford it that paid the best.

"This morning, I heard on the radio about a survey of moms. Moms would rather work part-time than full time. And they'd rather work, than not work. Did anyone else hear that? I think it's interesting that moms would rather work, than not."

See front-page post article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/11/AR2007071102345.html?hpid=topnews

"This morning, I heard on the radio about a survey of moms. Moms would rather work part-time than full time. And they'd rather work, than not work. Did anyone else hear that? I think it's interesting that moms would rather work, than not."

This is news?

"I suppose you want free childcare, free health care, free elder care, free schools, all paid for by the Government."

Yep, I want all of those thing! Except, that "government" money is MY money, they didn't pull it out of thin air!

Even single people would rather work part-time (but need full-time pay - know of any gigs like that?)

KLB - your friend's daughter is 17 and doesn't have a summer job? That is one huge change from when I was that age...

Here's another "alternate topic." Do you feel more balanced during the summer, or the school year? I always feel much more balanced during the summer. I think it's because:

1) I still have a few hours of daylight left when I get home...and my son and I can spend a leasurely evening at the pool, or doing something else fun.

2) There's no homework.

3) Bedtimes can be a bit more flexible... camp isn't on such a rigid schedule. And who cares if the kids are a bit cranky at camp.

4) More people are outside--it's easy to walk out the door and socialize.

BUT...I have a friend who always seems to have MORE working guilt in the summer than during the school year. Her kids are in camp with mine. But she feels they should be home just hanging out.

"This morning, I heard on the radio about a survey of moms. Moms would rather work part-time than full time. And they'd rather work, than not work. Did anyone else hear that? I think it's interesting that moms would rather work, than not."

Looking over the survey quickly, a couple of points:

- Full-time employed mothers were typically dissatisfied with that choice [only 21% saw it as preferred] -- as compared to 48% of SAHMs who saw their choice as preferred.

- 34% of employed women believe that it is a good thing for society that more women with young children are working (as opposed to 22% of SAHMs viewing it positively]. Conversely, 44% of SAHMs and 34% of WOHMs view an increase in the number of mothers of young children who are working as bad for society [note: the question is specifically focused on mothers with young children -- not all working mothers].

"I put an ad on Craigslist for someone to let my dogs out on days when both my husband and I are at work. I offered $8 per visit. That's $8 to open the back door and close it 20 minutes later. I only got one reply, and she later blew me off! It's summer; where are all the broke kids looking for extra cash?"

How often would need the kid, i.e., are the days you and your husband both work regular or sporadic. What time of day do you need the help? I have teens and they want regular work, not sporadic. Plus, the 15-year-old could only accept something in the evening/weekend or something she can get to on her own since we work and can't transport her. Granted, many kids don't need the money and many don't want to do just any work (my kids refuse any sort of food service including both fast-food and waitressing). We don't require our teens to look for a job before age 16. They are minor children who we support. At age 16, we do expect them to earn some money of their own. My kids are taking the retail, camp counseling, baby/pet sitting path rather than food service.

Here's the Virginia guidelines:

But Kattoo, Virginia doesn't actually have any law regarding a child being home alone past the age of 8.

So it's legal and CPS isn't necessary unless you leave the kid for more than a few hours. Say, overnight.

Would I do it? No. But it's not illegal, either.

Here's the Virginia guidelines:

But Kattoo, Virginia doesn't actually have any law regarding a child being home alone past the age of 8.

So it's legal and CPS isn't necessary unless you leave the kid for more than a few hours. Say, overnight.

Would I do it? No. But it's not illegal, either.

Posted by: to Kattoo | July 12, 2007 09:28 AM

_______________________

I didn't say it was illegal. I was just posting the "guidelines." And quite honestly, I feel the guidelines are lenient. I don't think a child should be left alone at home for any length of time until they're 10 or 11. But that's just me.

Actually, only Illinois and Maryland have laws on the books regarding leaving kids home alone.

Frequently Asked Questions, by the Maryland Department of Juvenile Services (DJS), has the following information about the legal age to be left home alone in Maryland:

Q: "At what age can a child be left home alone in Maryland?"
A: Family Law Article, § 5-801, provides:

(a) A person who is charged with the care of a child under the age of 8 years may not allow the child to be locked or confined in a dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle while the person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged unless the person charged provides a reliable person at least 13 years old to remain with the child to protect the child.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment not exceeding 30 days, or both.

We were spoiled for the past year with my brother a block away and looking for ways to pick up some extra cash -- we actually set it up so he'd come over every weekend for a few hours. Since neither of us is very good at advance planning, it was nice to have a regular setup where we had built-in couple time every weekend (even if it was just a cheesesteak and Home Depot).

Now that he's moved away, we're rediscovering the local teenagers (when we remember to call!). Luckily, my daughter loves the girl across the street, who is still young enough (15) to want to play with her. We pay @ $7.50-8/hr.

The biggest effect of the cost of babysitting on us is that we almost never see a movie. It's bad enough to pay $40+ for movie tickets and food for the two of us (since it's just not a movie without fake butter and snowcaps). But then the babysitting basically doubles the cost. And I've realized that there are very few movies that I'm willing to pay $80 to go see. So now we tend to use our rare babysitting evenings to go do something like have a nice dinner somewhere, and the movies we just rent 6 months later.

I would love a babysitting co-op, especially if the kids were close in age. We love having my daughter's friends/cousins over, because she is now old enough that they can go play by themselves -- it actually tends to make life easier. So I'd love to have a setup where we could trade off evenings out. But most of her friends live far enough away that that hasn't really worked out so far. Oh well.

"1) I still have a few hours of daylight left when I get home...and my son and I can spend a leasurely evening at the pool, or doing something else fun."

Camp starts at 9:00, school starts before 8:00. I get to work later, stay at work later, get home later, dinner later, etc. True, there's no homework, but I ultimately have no more free time in the evening than during the school year.

I live in Howard County; we pay teenage sitters $8/hour. Same for college-age. If I have my daycare provider or another similarly qualified adult watching the kids we pay $10/hour, which I think is a bargain given the price of nannies. We are very fortunate to know some great teenage/college age girls from church and through coworkers--they're good kids, resourceful, thoughtful with my children and we know their (nice, responsible) parents. I like the co-op idea, but it seems that it would result in the kids being cared for by a number of different people who they wouldn't know as well--I'd rather they be cared for by their beloved and familiar teenaged sitters.

"Camp starts at 9:00, school starts before 8:00. I get to work later, stay at work later, get home later, dinner later, etc. True, there's no homework, but I ultimately have no more free time in the evening than during the school year."

Boo, hoo. You poor little thing.

"This morning, I heard on the radio about a survey of moms. Moms would rather work part-time than full time."

IMHO, Moms wouldn't mind full time as much if full time was the traditional 40 hours per week rather than 50 hours or more. How did we let this happen? I do work a traditional 40 hours per week and I'm amazed at how many people I know consider 40 hours part time. Personally, I would like 6 hour work days rather than 8. I have a very reasonable commute, so if I were part time I would actually prefer shorter days M-F over a 4 day week of fuller days.

Why teenagers don't babysit:
1. our parents don't encourage it because of potential liability if smth happens to the kid (or to us, but that's secondary)
2. when I was not driving it was up to parents to drive me there. hard to juggle the schedules. Mostly had to do it as a favor to parents' friends.
3. now the parents of the kids to be babysat mostly don't want to pay for my driving time. I don't want to waste an hour of unpaid round trip (on average) either.
4. the unpredictable nature of the work, I would take 4 hours of b/s with half an hour travel scheduled at the same agreed upon time every week or two. Instead I get frantic calls for 2 hours of b/s RIGHT NOW with 1h travel time (unpaid). It just doesn't compute.
5, it's not a real job you can put on your resume.
6. I get much more respect at Home Depot (fixed hours pt after school). I learn more here. I can chill out with my friends during breaks. The boss makes all the decisions, and the pay is better.
7. if I need somebody to judge my "parenting" style, I'll get myself a mother-in-law, not neiborhood moms.

"Camp starts at 9:00, school starts before 8:00. I get to work later, stay at work later, get home later, dinner later, etc. True, there's no homework, but I ultimately have no more free time in the evening than during the school year."

Boo, hoo. You poor little thing.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 09:38 AM

____________

Y'know. The original post was fine. Your response is RUDE!

"Yes. I rarely see kids wih shovels or rakes looking for work these days. When I was a teenager, we raced to pick up these small jobs."

"It's summer; where are all the broke kids looking for extra cash?"
------

Kids today don't have free time to look for odd jobs because their lives are completely scheduled. All of their free time is taken up by organized activities, even in the summer. Parents would rather give their kids an "edge" by having them in activities and such and give them spending money themselves instead of having the kids "waste their time" working a menial job. Of course working teaches kids a lot of valuable life skills, but it doesn't look as good on a college application as a summer enrichment program.

As for the babysitting co-op question, we were in one for a few months. We thought it was a great idea but my wife and I quickly realized we really don't like watching other people's kids.

Lola

More of Why teenagers don't babysit:

Parents who write checks that bounce
Parents who don't pay the same day
Kids with long lists of allergies, special needs
Kids who are so needy for attention and love that it breaks my heart to come back to your house and see you treat them as trophies
Pervy dads who hit on me

"Camp starts at 9:00, school starts before 8:00. I get to work later, stay at work later, get home later, dinner later, etc. True, there's no homework, but I ultimately have no more free time in the evening than during the school year."

Boo, hoo. You poor little thing.

You know, I was only responding to someone's question about the difference between school year and summer balance. I was just stating facts - how my schedule changes. It was by no means meant to be a complaint. Maybe you should stop being so negative that you read negativity into everything.

To be honest, by the end of school, I can't wait for summer and by the end of summer, I can't wait for school to begin.

"now the parents of the kids to be babysat mostly don't want to pay for my driving time. I don't want to waste an hour of unpaid round trip (on average) either."

Lola, does home depot pay for your commuting time? I bet not. You have some very good points but complaining about not getting paid for your travel time makes you sound like a whiner.

"Lola, does home depot pay for your commuting time? I bet not."

I bet that home depot is closer and involves less commuting time. Teenagers generally don't take jobs that require that much travel.

After 4 years as parents, we finally started getting a baby sitter regularly. They charge about $10 an hr to take care of our 1 and 4 year old kids. We have been using three baby sitters. Unfortunately, they are all going back to college at the end of the summer, so we are going to have to find another one in the neighborhood. Anyway, I love it. It's great. Last weekend we went to Morton's and this weekend we're going to see the new Harry Potter movie.

This co-op/kidswap thing sounds like a great idea, I may consider that. But I'm not sure how it works. Do the other kids come sleep over? Does one parent go to the other kid's house while the other stays with their own children?

RE: Kids with special needs...I can see that being a factor, when I was babysitting back in the 70s we didn't have kids with ADHD/peanut (or whatever) allergies/sensory problems/behavior issues etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. How do parents deal with that???

Joe

"Lola, does home depot pay for your commuting time? I bet not. You have some very good points but complaining about not getting paid for your travel time makes you sound like a whiner."

Home Depot probably has a predictable schedule so Lola can minimize her travel time/expenses.

I suppose I'm a whiner when I bring up the pervy dads hitting on me.

"I suppose I'm a whiner when I bring up the pervy dads hitting on me."

FWIW - As a dad, I initially thought I was just being paranoid telling my wife that I always wanted her to be the person that drives the babysitter home at night [assuming that they are too young to drive] -- talking with a couple of other dads in on the block I found out that all of them had also come up with that rule independently.

"Kids today don't have free time to look for odd jobs because their lives are completely scheduled. All of their free time is taken up by organized activities, even in the summer. Parents would rather give their kids an "edge" by having them in activities and such and give them spending money themselves instead of having the kids "waste their time" working a menial job. Of course working teaches kids a lot of valuable life skills, but it doesn't look as good on a college application as a summer enrichment program."

Bingo, very good point! As for why kids don't mow lawns or shovel driveways, what about all those sexual predators that are out there? Much safer to keep the kids under lock and key (at least that is what we have been led to believe by the media)

We have "movie" night with two other families. Once a month one family takes all the kids and the other two sets go out for the evening. Granted, since our kids are smaller, the evenings are earlier but it works for us and you end up hosting just 4 times a year. We also had a play group for awhile that rotated amongst 3 or 4 families that met every Wed. afternoon, so moms could get things done.

Re: balance in summer or school time. I agree with the poster that at the end of school I can't wait for summer and at the end of summer, I can't wait for school. I enjoy the summer because I think there is more time to enjoy my kids as opposed to going to sporting activities and working on homework.

Moxiemom

"Once a month one family takes all the kids and the other two sets go out for the evening."

How many kids? How do you handle disciplne? Are the husbands really involved or are they shadowy figures in the background?

I still remember, with loathing, the one couple up the street. Here's a primer on how not to treat your babysitter.

The very last time that I, or any of my neighborhood friends, took care of their pair of incredibly entitled and difficult children (I blame the parents!), was the night they called 10" before they needed to leave, stayed out 2 hours later than they said they would and paid me IN PENNIES when they got back.

No, he didn't hit up on me, but neither of them offered to drive me home (only a block) at midnight. It's not that it wasn't safe, it was the principle of the thing.

I can only hope their two little girls turned out okay, despite their parents.

Things seem to have really changed in the last 15 years or so. When I was a teenaged babysitter (and when I was a child being babysat), the sitters were all 12-14. I never heard of anyone hiring a college student for their occasional evening babysitting. For a full-time regular babysitter, of course, but not for the occasional weekend evening. And watching a few kids for an evening just wasn't that hard. In fact, it was a pretty great gig because you usually put the kids to bed after a few hours and got paid to watch TV.

Why the change that parents now feel a young teenager isn't adequate to watch your children sleep?

Wow. Back when I babysat for money (I do it for free now, go figure) we're talking $3 to 5$ an hour it's been so long, the dads always picked me up and dropped me off! We're talking the late 80's, early 90's. Then I got my license and a car and the parents loved that I could drive and they didn't have to pick me up. And I stayed local for the first two years of college, so that helped, too.

There was one summer that I babysat and "house-sat" (watered plants, took in the mail, fed the cats while people were away) so much that I did quite well and didn't need a "real job"!

"Home Depot probably has a predictable schedule so Lola can minimize her travel time/expenses.

I suppose I'm a whiner when I bring up the pervy dads hitting on me."

And those are valid points. But there is no job that is going to pay you for your commuting time.

"Why the change that parents now feel a young teenager isn't adequate to watch your children sleep?"

The same reason that parents won't use a daycare provider or daycare center where all workers aren't formally trained in early childhood development.

They live in fear that their children won't have the very, very best.

Kathrina

"Why the change that parents now feel a young teenager isn't adequate to watch your children sleep?"

There isn't enough space here to explain why people are cuckoo birds.. The short answer is that a lot of families now revolve around the CHILDREN, oh the children, instead of the parents.

Does PT Fed Mof2 have the web address for
the American University babysitting? I can not find a babysitter in our neighborhood.

Does PT Fed Mof2 have the web address for
the American University babysitting? I can not find a babysitter in our neighborhood.

"And those are valid points. But there is no job that is going to pay you for your commuting time."

True, but most people do factor in their commuting time and expense when deciding whether or not the pay offered is "worth it."

Maybe Lola would be happy with a raise in the hourly babysitting rate.

"Things seem to have really changed in the last 15 years or so. When I was a teenaged babysitter (and when I was a child being babysat), the sitters were all 12-14. I never heard of anyone hiring a college student for their occasional evening babysitting. For a full-time regular babysitter, of course, but not for the occasional weekend evening. And watching a few kids for an evening just wasn't that hard. In fact, it was a pretty great gig because you usually put the kids to bed after a few hours and got paid to watch TV.

Why the change that parents now feel a young teenager isn't adequate to watch your children sleep?"

You'd be amazed at how many parents won't let their own 12 year old stay home alone. So they sure aren't going to let a 12 year old watch younger kids.

People have the perception that the world is a much less safe than it used to be, when the reality is it's just as safe if not safer. But with the internet and 24 hour news channels, we're constantly bombarded with every thing that happens.

Wow. Back when I babysat for money (I do it for free now, go figure) we're talking $3 to 5$ an hour it's been so long, the dads always picked me up and dropped me off! We're talking the late 80's, early 90's. Then I got my license and a car and the parents loved that I could drive and they didn't have to pick me up. And I stayed local for the first two years of college, so that helped, too.

WDC,

Are you my doppelganger? We sound as though we may be the same "vintage".

"Why the change that parents now feel a young teenager isn't adequate to watch your children sleep?"

The same reason that we insist on using car seats now when as kids we rode in the back of the station wagon without them -- we identify more potential risks and we take steps to mitigate against them. Reasonable? Well, the number of preventable childhood accidents continues to decline -- depends on what metric you want to use for success I suppose.

"How many kids? How do you handle disciplne? Are the husbands really involved or are they shadowy figures in the background? "

There are 6 kids total and they are all around the same ages from 2.5 to 6. The dads are really involved. The kids play, sometimes we play games with them. It is more fun in nice weather because the kids will play outside until it is dark, eat hot dogs and then watch a movie until the parents come back. Don't get me wrong, it is exhausting (I did it by myself one time - YIKES). But we save a good deal of money, the kids love it and our kids get to know the parents of their friends in a way they probably wouldn't either. We aren't best friends with the parents, but we share similar values and know that our kids are in good hands.

"we identify more potential risks and we take steps to mitigate against them. Reasonable?"

Why are there so many retarded kids these days? Were the potential risks identified?
Wouldn't there be less retarded kids?

I forgot discipline, we handle it just hte same as we would any other play date. The kids know that we won't hesitate to call the parents if we need to and the parents are certainly on board with the general rules. They are all pretty good kids and the bad behavior is limited to petty squabbles mostly and generally between the boys and girls.

The only reason I dont use teenagers is because I dont have to. I have 20 year olds available to watch my kids. I would absolutely use teenagers, but when 20 somethings need extra money and they want to babysit, I use them.

Another tip for parents -- get food for the babysitter. If the babysitter is feeding your kids dinner, have something for her to eat. I hear a lot of babysitters complaining about that

"we identify more potential risks and we take steps to mitigate against them. Reasonable?"

Why are there so many retarded kids these days? Were the potential risks identified?
Wouldn't there be less retarded kids?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:22 AM

Old sperm & eggs, by and large.

So, we should only trust 13 year old with children if they have had their own. But if they've had their own, then they are not to be trusted.

Expect to pay more for an adult to mind your kids.

"we identify more potential risks and we take steps to mitigate against them. Reasonable?"

Why are there so many retarded kids these days? Were the potential risks identified?
Wouldn't there be less retarded kids?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:22 AM

Older sperm & eggs, by and large.

So, we should only trust 13 year old with children if they have had their own. But if they've had their own, then they are not to be trusted.

Expect to pay more for an adult to mind your kids.

The person who wants to pay someone only $8 a visit for pet care is ignoring the cost of gas and commuting time as well. A professional pet sitter will charge you, generally, between $12 and $20 a visit. They also are typically bonded and insured. Stop blaming the market of teenagers when you low-ball for a particular service.

As a teen I was a great baby sitter WHILE I WAS AWAKE. When I fell asleep, I was OUT COLD. Training and experience didn't matter.

There was a coop in our neighborhood. We did not use it because they had a laundry-list of "requirements." No gun in the house (regardless of where etc); no pizza, no movies, no rough housing, etc. I thought about moving but then again, I never see these people around the neighborhood anyway. Has anyone else experienced "rules" like this?

"Wow. Back when I babysat for money (I do it for free now, go figure) we're talking $3 to 5$ an hour it's been so long"

I babysat two kids for 50 cents per hour as a teenager 1968-1971.

Families were larger and most of the moms stayed home. Therefore, the kids were home among children of various ages and not in camp/daycare separated into age groups. I had much more experience being around younger children, siblings and neighbors, and therefore was more capable of babysitting as a teen than my own daughters were at the same age. I changed younger siblings diapers from the age of 8 (occasionnaly and with supervision - i was not Mom's unhired help). My daughter didn't have a diaper-changing opportunity until she had her first babysitting job. I would have allowed her to change a younger siblings diaper at age 8, but there were no siblings in diapers by that time.

I think younger teens are seen as being less capable than when my peers were younger teens, and I don't know that that is an entirely incorrect assumption based on their lack of experience around younger children.

As a teen I was a great baby sitter WHILE I WAS AWAKE. When I fell asleep, I was OUT COLD. Training and experience didn't matter.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:25 AM

Same can be said for parents.

Get help, please.

This is the same kind of person who would walk down a deserted street in a bad neighborhood at night and say to themselves, get help people these are just hardworking people down on their luck, nothing bad will happen to me..

Not that I want to start this battle again, but my brother was a wonderful babysitter. "Victimized and Abused," not all men have uncontrollable impulses to abuse children, and not all women are free from those impulses. Your advice would be better as "be sure to get tons of references from any potential babysitter, teach your child about inappropriate touching, ask your child how the night went, and trust your gut if something doesn't seem right."

Posted by: Meesh | July 12, 2007 08:42 AM

Spot-on, Meesh. Maybe this silliness can die at this point.

To the dads who don't want to drive home the sitter, it's funny but I know many dads who drive the sitters home and --newsflash - because they're not pervy and don't creep out the sitters, there's no problem. Or you can keep dumping on your wives by suggesting that, in order to avoid liability, you simply must lay down on the couch with a beer while she drives back out at 2 a.m. with the sitter. Nice. The best protection from liability is knowing well the sitter, knowing well the parents of the sitter, and not conducting conversations while staring at a sitter's legs and breasts.

There was a coop in our neighborhood. We did not use it because they had a laundry-list of "requirements." No gun in the house (regardless of where etc); no pizza, no movies, no rough housing, etc. I thought about moving but then again, I never see these people around the neighborhood anyway. Has anyone else experienced "rules" like this?

Not since i was paroled........

To 10:22

One major reason there are more mentally retarded people today is because, with advances in medicine, babies are surviving who often might not have survived in years past. For example, very premature infants, etc.

I once babysat for a family with 3 children - the oldest was 2 years older than I was. Apparently the younger children wouldn't behave for the oldest, so I was brought in. The oldest stayed in the bedroom while I babysat the younger children. they didn't behave for me, either, and the pay was incredibly cheap. I only did that once.

"Has anyone else experienced "rules" like this?"

We actually don't let our kids play at homes where there are guns. Other than that we teach our kids that we have expectations of how they will behave wherever they are AND that they will follow the rules of the home they are in. Sometimes we are more strict about things, sometimes we are more lenient. Most of the people with whom we associate have similir thoughts on these things so it hasn't been a big problem yet.

A note on commuting: in addition to the ability to factor in travel/commuting expenses when considering the pay offer for a steady job, many places offer metrochecks (or their city's equivalent), access to parking, and/or flexible spending accounts for transit expenses - not a pure reimbursement, but still a savings since money taken out is pre-tax.

Get help, please.

This is the same kind of person who would walk down a deserted street in a bad neighborhood at night and say to themselves, get help people these are just hardworking people down on their luck, nothing bad will happen to me..

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:30 AM

Which post were you responding to?

The best protection from liability is knowing well the sitter, knowing well the parents of the sitter, and not conducting conversations while staring at a sitter's legs and breasts.

When on a drive by, the best way to avoid liability is to know well the shooter and close your eyes and ears and look away while others make conversation about the shooting. Then get out of the car and go home. OR not be in the car

We actually don't let our kids play at homes where there are guns. Other than that we teach our kids that we have expectations of how they will behave wherever they are AND that they will follow the rules of the home they are in. Sometimes we are more strict about things, sometimes we are more lenient. Most of the people with whom we associate have similir thoughts on these things so it hasn't been a big problem yet.

Posted by: Moxiemom | July 12, 2007 10:35 AM

How do you know if someone has a gun? When a kid is 8 and wants go to over to Suzie's house after school, do you call the parents and ask? I am truly not being snarky, just curious.

"The best protection from liability is knowing well the sitter, knowing well the parents of the sitter, and not conducting conversations while staring at a sitter's legs and breasts."

And not pressing the money into my hand too firmly.

Avoid asking me if I have a boyfriend and trying to scope out if I have "gone all the way".

Dunno how it will help a perv to know my parents.

You are a really old guy to me, please don't act like we are friends.

Don't offer "special help" to get into college.

Don't sigh and look so sad when I get out of your car.

I've always wondered how the 'going rate' is calculated. I babysat a lot (AA County, young neighborhood, tons of kids), between the ages of 13 (1989) and about 22 (occasional overnights/weekends during college), and for the most part got about $4-$5 an hour for a single kid. I usually got more for multiple kids, etc, but I never got what I heard was the 'going rate'. I also just accepted what I was given--I can't understand sitters demanding certain rates, etc. If I liked the kids, I didn't really care if the rate was low. If the kids were awful, I didn't go back, no matter how much the families paid me.

Then again, I babysat more because I enjoyed it than for the money.

I was always surprised at how few families sat me down and interviewed me first, however. Not sure if they queried other families or what....that always surprised me, even as a young teen.

I was always surprised when wives would drive me home. When I was a kid, Dad *always* picked up and dropped off the sitter (and held the car door and her jacket for her.....), 'cause Mom was dealing with us, getting dressed, etc. I just assumed that's how it always went--I only had two or three families where the father ever did that. I had one couple who decided roles well--whoever planned the outing arranged for the babysitter, and did the pick-up/drop-off. :)

"The best protection from liability is knowing well the sitter, knowing well the parents of the sitter, and not conducting conversations while staring at a sitter's legs and breasts."

No, the *best* protection from liability is not to put yourself in that position.

When I taught in graduate school, all male instructors were told at the beginning of the semester that they should never be in their office with a female student and the door closed for the same reason -- a claim of inappropriate behavior against a guy is easy to make and hard for the guy to disprove.

"How do you know if someone has a gun? When a kid is 8 and wants go to over to Suzie's house after school, do you call the parents and ask? I am truly not being snarky, just curious"

Yes, we do ask. We always talk to and have been to the homes where we send our kids, so we ask. I had a friend growing up who was killed in a gun accident so I'm sensitive to it. yes, they could lie to us, but that's not a reason not to ask.

To Moxiemom -- how old are your kids? Thanks!

Does PT Fed Mof2 have the web address for
the American University babysitting? I can not find a babysitter in our neighborhood.

Posted by: shdd | July 12, 2007 10:17 AM

Here you go, shdd:

http://jobcorps.ausg.org/

"And not pressing the money into my hand too firmly.

Avoid asking me if I have a boyfriend and trying to scope out if I have "gone all the way".

Dunno how it will help a perv to know my parents.

You are a really old guy to me, please don't act like we are friends.

Don't offer "special help" to get into college.

Don't sigh and look so sad when I get out of your car."

I am not even a babysitter and I am creeped out now

4 and 6 Thanks.

Moxiemom

"We always talk to and have been to the homes where we send our kids, so we ask."

How do you know people are being truthful?

yes, they could lie to us, but that's not a reason not to ask.

Posted by: Moxiemom | July 12, 2007 10:43 AM

You don't. But you ask.

Based on MoxieMom's comments I have a question. When your kids are school aged, and making friends with classmates (as opposed to neighbors), how much investigation do you do before you let your kid go over for a play date? For example, having talked to the parent at school a few times enough? Is calling the parent and finding out details enough? Is going over to drop off the child and talking to the parents for a few minutes enough? I understand that age of your child is a huge factor, but what are people's experiences?

"Yes, we do ask. We always talk to and have been to the homes where we send our kids, so we ask. I had a friend growing up who was killed in a gun accident so I'm sensitive to it. yes, they could lie to us, but that's not a reason not to ask."

FWIW - we have the same rule but recently had to change it - one of our son's friends has a father who works for the secret service. When he was over he made a point of the security he puts in place when he has his gun at the house [and his only gun at the house is his work gun] -- it didn't make sense to put him in the same category as others.

Just keep in mind the MENA SUVARI character from American Beauty guys. Girls like herare a false sex charge waiting to happen when you drive her home.Stay away from liability and if your wife has to drive her home, tough nuts, beats a false sex charge, which will ruin your life.

"a claim of inappropriate behavior against a guy is easy to make and hard for the guy to disprove."

In addition to the open door rule, our policy is to assume that all conversations are being taped.

Moxiemom,

The reason I asked about your kids ages is because my kids are almost 4 and 6 so we have not had to deal with friends other than neighbors. But we have a gun in our home and I am thinking about what will happen if a child is not allowed to play in our home because of the gun. My child would be upset that her friend could not come over, so I have to figure out a solution. I would answer your question honestly and say yes, but I can remove it from the home while your child is there. I just dont know where I would take it. hmmm. . . I have to think about this one. Thx for your honesty

In response to "who pays for the commuting time"? -- yes, some parents do. Otherwise they would have to pick me up and drop me off. I don't like getting lost at night in the strange neigborhoods, so if they value their time at more than $10 an hour, they pay. Home Depot is 2 miles away, it's like driving on autopilot.

Maybe I never met "real pervs" but I perceive "friendly" dads as exactly that -- being friendly, the way they know how. Some have tried baby talk with me, some would put an arm around my shoulders and parade in front of their wifes showing what a good little mama I am! Stupid, but safe. I never read it as sexual, and even if there was an undercurrent of that, not responding to their signals extinguished it. Maybe it also helped that they knew I did Judo. But I also observed some men conspiciously removing themselves from any interaction with me, especially in front of their wifes.

My most serious resoan that b/s is not attractive for teens is that this job doesn't count. When I applied for the first "real" job in food service at 16 they laughed that I listed b/s as job experience. Out of 12-15 places I applied to only one made an offer, and only because they mistook the name of one of my clients (think Neiman)for the name of the store. I stayed with that place for a few months and after that I was perceived by hiring managers as having a real job experience and could choose from multiple offers. So, in terms of return on investment of time if a teenager is over 16 -- no b/s. Colleges like "real job" on the application also, b/c it shows leadership skills, teamwork, etc.

Are you my doppelganger? We sound as though we may be the same "vintage".

I'm 33 1/2 and single...Oringinally from Long Island, NY and moved down here 2 and 1/2 years ago. I babysit my friends kids every now and then for free since they're good kids -- whether together or by themselves (and the older one is handicapped) and it gives me something to do on the weekend instead of watching TV.

FWIW - we have the same rule but recently had to change it - one of our son's friends has a father who works for the secret service. When he was over he made a point of the security he puts in place when he has his gun at the house [and his only gun at the house is his work gun] -- it didn't make sense to put him in the same category as others.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:48 AM

What security was that? Thanks

I just dont know where I would take it. hmmm. . . I have to think about this one. Thx for your honesty

The trunk of your locked car?

Maybe one of the babysitter's own parents could come pick her up and drive her home after babysitting. Inconvenient, yes, but less worry for all.

Marie

"I would answer your question honestly and say yes, but I can remove it from the home while your child is there. I just dont know where I would take "

My kid will NEVER be allowed to go to your house. Another airhead with a gun. Just what this country needs!

When I started babysitting we got less than $1.00/hour. We rarely got additional for more than one kid. The dad always picked up and drove home. Most parents were on time and left food for babysitter.
The worst night was when the dad was almost 30 mins late. He arrived upset as he had run over the new kitten in the garage and had to clean it up before coming to get me.
He told the kids it ran away.

I just dont know where I would take it. hmmm. . . I have to think about this one. Thx for your honesty

The trunk of your locked car?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 10:54 AM

I thought of that, but would that be sufficient?

"Colleges like "real job" on the application also, b/c it shows leadership skills, teamwork, etc."

And baby-sitting shows time management, patience, and responsibility.

If a potential employer doesn't see baby-sitting as a real job, I wouldn't want to work for that place. I bet it was men that interviewed you, too.

"What security was that? Thanks"

Gun unloaded.

Gun stored in combination lock box.

Ammo stored in separate combination lock box.

Both lock boxes stored in key-locked cabinet. Single key on father's work keychain.

"How often would need the kid, i.e., are the days you and your husband both work regular or sporadic. What time of day do you need the help?"

Well, it would be set days, but only three days per week. We want someone to come at noon.

I thought about the gas cost, which is why I put our address on the ad. I assumed that only people who lived close by would respond.

The local companies that offer petsitting services charges $14 an hour for a long walk and play time. Each visit lasts two hours. I figured out, based on that, how much a kid should make for 20 minutes of watching my two dogs play.

But that gives me a better idea. I'll put an ad in our community newsletter. That way the person could walk to our house. Thanks for setting me straight, anon!

Marie, I appreciate and recognize that lots of good people and great parents have guns in their home. I am however, certain that curious boys, especially when they are older, are frequently able to circumvent security meausures put in place. You sound like a reasonable person and I wouldn't worry too much, because in my experience, I might be the only person who has this rule. Re: the secret service neighbor, I'd have to think that one over. Hasn't come up.

"I just dont know where I would take it. hmmm. . . I have to think about this one. Thx for your honesty"

While you're at it, please remove the mneds you leave lying around you house...

Why do you permit a gun in a house with your child?

I really enjoy reading this blog most days, but wish all of the anon posters would get a handle. Is there a reason why so many people aren't doing this?

I thought of that, but would that be sufficient.

Probably, unloaded gun in trunk, ammo in totally separate high position out of view.

One possible resolution is to lcok your gun up in the house, show the parents that it is locked and unloaded and then place the bullets somewhere outside the house-- like in the truck of your car maybe? I have asked parents this and they have been honest (as far as I know!) about having a gun, but no bullets in their house. May child hasn't yet played at their house without me also being there, but if I saw that the gun was locked up and unloaded, I wouldn't automatically rule them out as potential "kidswap" parents.

"Colleges like "real job" on the application also, b/c it shows leadership skills, teamwork, etc."

And baby-sitting shows time management, patience, and responsibility.

It could. It could also demonstrate that you parked your butt on the sofa, ate the pizza, watched t.v. while the kids ran amuk, or watched t.v. with the kids. Eventually said, "go to bed". May or may not have included throwing away the pizza box and telling the kids to brush their teeth.

The problem with defining "babysitting" is that there is a huge range of possibilities. A job description, furnished by someone who had your SSN and a W-2, simply counts for more.

Babysitting is a cash-under-the-table thing for teenagers. Don't be surprised when they opt out. Pay them more, or go with the kids. Murder for date-night, but there you go.

Why do you permit a gun in a house with your child?

Ever heard of a home invasion, rape, burglary, assault? Standing there empty handed is guaranteed way to become a statistic. At least with a gun you have a chance. You really have to ask?

Ever heard of a home invasion, rape, burglary, assault? Standing there empty handed is guaranteed way to become a statistic. At least with a gun you have a chance. You really have to ask?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:04 AM

Honestly, a dog who barks is a much better deterrent. People looking to do bad things are less interested in dealing with noise and biting animals. Plus they are so much more attractive and fun to have around! (The dog, of course.)

A gun may be useful only after the break-in. If you have time to find, load and aim the gun. And are committed, truly committed, to pulling the trigger. After you have fully established that the intruder really IS an intruder.

"What security was that? Thanks"

Gun unloaded.

Gun stored in combination lock box.

Ammo stored in separate combination lock box.

Both lock boxes stored in key-locked cabinet. Single key on father's work keychain.'

Standard law enforcement spiel. Don't believe it. Why take a chance with your kid's life & future so you can score free babysitting? Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Ever heard of a home invasion, rape, burglary, assault? Standing there empty handed is guaranteed way to become a statistic. At least with a gun you have a chance. You really have to ask?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:04 AM

So the criminal can wrest your gun away from you and shoot you with it?

it gives me something to do on the weekend instead of watching TV.

Posted by: WDC | July 12, 2007 10:54 AM

Oh, I thought singles had incredibly full, enriching lives! Watching tv all weekend? Hmmm, why am I not suprised?!

Moxiemom, I think a lot of people have this rule actually, so thats why I want to figure out a suitable solution. Thanks for everyone's (okay mostly everyone's) thoughts. :)

So the criminal can wrest your gun away from you and shoot you with it?

I think that would be a good trick to "wrestle" away a 12 gauge shotgun from 10-15 feet. The person invading your home probably already has a gun and is intent on one thing- crime- and raping you may be a fringe benefit.

"It could. It could also demonstrate that you parked your butt on the sofa, ate the pizza, watched t.v. while the kids ran amuk, or watched t.v. with the kids. Eventually said, "go to bed". May or may not have included throwing away the pizza box and telling the kids to brush their teeth.

The problem with defining "babysitting" is that there is a huge range of possibilities. A job description, furnished by someone who had your SSN and a W-2, simply counts for more."

That's why you have the parents serve as references and/or write letters -- kids are smart enough to tell parents what's going on. I heard earfuls of previous babysitters from the kids I sat for. It was a riot! They didn't get hired back, I did. Obviously, this doesn't work for the infant set since they can't talk, but they do need special attention and parking in front of the TV wouldn't work with an infant unless they were sleeping. I also never used the phone (now there are cell phones, so it's a little different I suppose). Parents aren't stupid, they should be able to tell what went on while they were out. I always put the toys away and dirty dishes in the dish washer, sometimes leaving the place a little cleaner then when the parents left. Maybe I was just raised well by my parents.

Actually, idiot, having a gun in the house is a really great way to become a statistic. It's more likely to be used against you during a home break-in AND you are more likely to kill your spouse or be killed by your spouse if there's a gun in your house.

DUH.

Good luck Marie. As someone who is not fond of guns, I appreicate people like you who can respect our differing opinions.

Marie

"Moxiemom, I think a lot of people have this rule actually, so thats why I want to figure out a suitable solution. Thanks for everyone's (okay mostly everyone's) thoughts. :)"

How about getting the gun out of the house period? Why are you taking chances with your kid's life? Is it your gun?

Actually, idiot, having a gun in the house is a really great way to become a statistic. It's more likely to be used against you during a home break-in AND you are more likely to kill your spouse or be killed by your spouse if there's a gun in your house.

DUH.

You are one of those people who probably has an alarm and says I don't need a gun. Well when the thug has a knife to your throat and the alarm is going off that will be small comfort. Or perhaps a knife to your 13 year old daughter. Remember that moron

I think that would be a good trick to "wrestle" away a 12 gauge shotgun from 10-15 feet. The person invading your home probably already has a gun and is intent on one thing- crime- and raping you may be a fringe benefit.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:11 AM

They also have the element of surprise, not to mention already having the gun in their hand.

Honestly, most criminals do NOT want to mess around with a home that has a dog.

Or perhaps a knife to your 13 year old daughter. Remember that moron

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:15 AM

Using a shotgun you're likely to hit your daughter, too.

Remember that moron

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:15 AM

So we can assume that you keep your gun always loaded and conveniently available on a moments notice.

Remember that moron

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:15 AM

So we can assume that you keep your gun always loaded and conveniently available on a moments notice.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:19 AM

Next to his chaw and spittoon?

How about getting the gun out of the house period? Why are you taking chances with your kid's life? Is it your gun?

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:14 AM

We have it for home security. Not that it would matter to you, but we do go to the gun range often for practice so that we are proficient at using it.

Why not get it out of my house? Why would I? I have prescription medications in my home. I keep them secure. Should I not put a pool in my yard just because a child might fall in? No, I would put precautions in place to prevent a child from getting hurt. Same thing with the gun.

However, that being said, other people disagree about guns and pools. Therefore, I would adapt to make that parent comfortable. That is the reasonable thing to do.

"I think that would be a good trick to "wrestle" away a 12 gauge shotgun from 10-15 feet. The person invading your home probably already has a gun and is intent on one thing- crime- and raping you may be a fringe benefit."

Good plan. First, I have to waken from my deep slumbers and fumble around looking for my glasses, the gun, and the ammo. Hope the rapist is a patient guy. Hope he stands perfectly still whilst I shakily aim at him & pee my pants. Hope the innocent bystanders I shot don't sue me...

I'll take the big scary dog.

You are one of those people who probably has an alarm and says I don't need a gun. Well when the thug has a knife to your throat and the alarm is going off that will be small comfort. Or perhaps a knife to your 13 year old daughter. Remember that moron

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:15 AM

RIGHT. Because it happens ALL THE TIME. You NRA freaks love to trot out this possibility. You have a greater chance of winning the lottery than being attacked by a thug in your home.

"I also never used the phone (now there are cell phones, so it's a little different I suppose)."

Ha, a LITTLE different? This is a HUGE difference.

RIGHT. Because it happens ALL THE TIME. You NRA freaks love to trot out this possibility. You have a greater chance of winning the lottery than being attacked by a thug in your home.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:23 AM

And how often do children get shot with a gun in the home? It happens, as does having a thug in your home.

Marie, prescription medications cannot kill someone if dropped, for example, as a loaded gun can do. Your analogy is ridiculous.

I do understand your concern about guns in the house. However, your children are young and at their ages, I think that the level of supervision should be more of a concern whether or not there is a gun in the house. Young children should not be playing unsupervised in a house. There is more chance of them falling down stairs, running into a glass coffee table, turning the stove on, getting bitten by the family dog, getting into the medicine cabinet, drinking cleaning supplies, etc, as there is that they would be able to get guns and ammunition out of locked places and hurt themselves or others. If you trust the level of adult supervision, then there should be no problem that there are guns in the house.

I have relatives who hunt. I would absolutely trust my chilren at the home of these relatives because of the security measures they keep. Secret service is just one example. What about policemen? Would you not allow your children to play at their homes?

Guns are just one of the issues involved when determining where you allow your children to play.

"Or perhaps a knife to your 13 year old daughter. Remember that moron"

How many 13 year olds are raped in their own homes in your zip code every year?

Someone pull up the stats from a non-biased 3rd party to shut everyone up about killing intruders vs being killed!!! Sheesh.

RIGHT. Because it happens ALL THE TIME. You NRA freaks love to trot out this possibility. You have a greater chance of winning the lottery than being attacked by a thug in your home.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:23 AM

And how often do children get shot with a gun in the home? It happens, as does having a thug in your home.

Posted by: Jim | July 12, 2007 11:25 AM

EXACTLY. And the children wouldn't get shot if there wasn't a gun. If you have a gun in your home, there's a MUCH greater chance that your child will kill himself or a friend, accidentally or otherwise, than that a thug will come in the house with intent to harm.

Marie, prescription medications cannot kill someone if dropped, for example, as a loaded gun can do. Your analogy is ridiculous.

Posted by: | July 12, 2007 11:25 AM

What about the pool?

To the dads who don't want to drive home the sitter, it's funny but I know many dads who drive the sitters home and --newsflash - because they're not pervy and don't creep out the sitters, there's no problem. Or you can keep dumping on your wives by suggesting that, in order to avoid liability, you simply must lay down on the couch with a beer while she drives back out at 2 a.m. with the sitter. Nice. The best protection from liability is knowing well the sitter, knowing well the parents of the sitter, and not conducting conversations while staring at a sitter's legs and breasts.

Posted by: Megan's Neighbor | July 12, 2007 10:31 AM

You are obviously not a man in todays world. Those men you mention are at risk of being falsely accused of being a perv. It doesn't matter how well you know the babysitter, the risk (though miniscule) is still there. One misunderstood comment could ruin your whole life. This is one case instance where the accusation (true or not) is enough to destroy a mans life.

Men in this hyper sensitive climate should never put themselves in a position where they are alone with a young woman.

At schools these says, there are guidelines for male (all?) teachers that say teachers should never be alone with a student, and if they are, to keep the door open, sit on the opposite side of the desk, etc. If schools feel necessary to do this, why do scold men who do the same thing?